oddsox - Thanks for that!

mrfreeze, check out the article today on Bernie Sanders & Citizens United.
(I’d link it, but I’m having compu-trouble right now.  It’s right here on TruthDig, though)
You know I’m no socialist, but Bernie hits the mark here.
And what it means is we may need to FIRST eliminate corporate influence in politics. 
And THEN break up the big banks.
In that order.

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on the Mormon thing, I’ve had my say.
Leaving it alone now, it’s up to you.

odd socks - HA!  Love the “socialist” thing! I asked Newt how it was working for FNMA & Freddie…he said socialism is wonderful!!!!

1) The banks own us….all of us…here, in Europe, in Asia. They are larger than ever and getting larger by the day. Perhaps reinstituting Glass-Stiegal might help and perhaps “divesting” the banks may outwardly change them; however, the fundamental, high-risk money-making systems the banks have in place are impossible to dismantle. Do you really think any lawmakers or business leaders want to see the banks change???? Worse yet, do you think Americans will ever stop paying those userous interest rates???? Americans love being slaves.
2) I grew up in UT…....I’m beyond forgiving….and don’t delude yourself….they are far from normal. Indeed, the issues you raise about blacks and gays in connection with Mormons are a distraction from their fundamental, preternatural “cosmic” arrogance and incredible subjective nastiness when dealing with people like you and me: “gentiles.” Endure their coercion, their condescension, their never ending “quid-pro-quo” dealings with everything for as many years as I did…..oh, to live among the Saints….it was a nightmare. Even today, living in liberal Seattle, the Mormons here are the same. (By the way, I’m sure one of these days, when the “Prophet” determines that gays will be financially beneficial to “the church” he will have a revelation and they will become eligible for the priesthood.)

As a conservative he’d never win my vote. That said, he’s the only one in that
entire clown show parade who comes across as even remotely sane and civilised. If
the loonies in the base wake up, they may see that.
http://borderlessnewsandviews.com/

mrfreeze, you write: “NO ONE is going to break up the banks…”

You give up easily, my friend. 
Is that so you can promote the Socialist alternative?

But we at least agree that they SHOULD be broken up, is that right?

Dozens of big trusts were busted 100 years ago, AT&T was broken up just 25 years ago. 
The Big Banks can and should be broken up.
Guys like Huntsman, Robert Reich and former KC Fed President Thomas Koenig give me hope they will be—soon, I hope.

for those who haven’t seen this already…
http://open.salon.com/blog/oddsox/2011/10/10/too_big_to_fail_too_big_to_begin_with

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Mrfreeze, I’ve known some Mormons, too. 
A childhood friend, a short-time girlfriend & many classmates, business associates and casual acquaintances. 
Never had a problem myself, they’re pretty regular folk.

The rap on Mormons back when I was young was their exclusion of Blacks. 
These days Mormons are criticized for their vocal opposition to Gay marriage (a certain irony there, given their polygamist history) and support of Prop 8 in CA.

That said, like most Americans, I don’t have a problem with the idea of a Mormon President.  Clearly, you do. Your choice.

But, as a favor to yourself:  consider forgiveness for whatever the Mormons have done to you. 
Free yourself from bigotry.
You can, and I sense that you want to.

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My last post was truncated—meant to include a link to Huntsman’s interview w/Fareed Zakaria on GPS last Sunday.
http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/category/gps-show/

oddsox - NO ONE is going to break up the banks….Also, that’s my whole point about the socialism thing….all economic systems are mixed systems. The pendulum swings this way and that. The fact that politicians and imbecile citizens massage their paranoia with the term is what’s so fucking annoying.

And one more thing: Mr. Huntsman (and that other white, entitled, never-worked-an-honest-day-in-his-life, pos Romney) are members of the LDS Church. They can’t sequester out the utter and total nonsense that believing in that religion requires. It’s a business masquerading as a religion. I know them well, I lived among them and their happy, happy idiotic world view for many years. Vote for them at your own risk…......

Huntsman “(is) the only one who makes any sense to me, and he’d give Obama some good competition.”

Yes, once it gets to Obama vs. Republican Nominee, any of the Repubs would give Obama good competition.
Some better than others, and varying with the topic at hand, but Obama has been a weak President. 
He’s vulnerable.

Huntsman wants to break up the big banks, you know he has my support on that issue. 
He was on  

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Mr.Freeze:

Conor Clark defines Socialism very narrowly so as to make the point that we have little of it and need not be afraid.

Others, David Sirota comes to mind, define it very widely so as to make the point that we already benefit from it and need not be afraid.

On the Right, I could also find wide and narrow definitions of Socialism designed to make the opposite point—that we should fear Socialism.

Clark’s most poignant message is his quote of Jon Henke:
“Socialism, like farenheit, comes in degrees.”

In June, 2009, Conor Clark wrote an excellent piece in the Atlantic Monthly entitled:

What Socialism Looks Like - Here’s the link:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2009/06/what-socialism-looks-like/18675/

If we want to have an intelligent discussion about what socialism is or isn’t, I think this article is a great place to start.

Of course, it really doesn’t matter these days if one can make the argument that we are actually a “mixed-economy” (and always have been). Facts no longer matter. As I said, the word “socialism” has been turned into a “magic” incantation by those too stupid to do a little thinking of their own.

Most discussions on Socialism hinge upon its definition.

It’s most often defined as government ownership of the means of production. 
But does that mean all points of production including distribution and even sales? 
And are all public works and services as included under the socialist tent (military, police & fire, public education, etc.)?

It’s tough to have an intelligent discussion about Socialism before agreeing upon its meaning.

Huntsman is, it seems to me, far less likely to use the word “socialism,” than his other republican competitors.  The question here, is almost purely hypothetical, almost purely an intellectual exercise.  “Almost,” because there’s always the possibility that Huntsman, in the unlikely event that he’d be the republican nominee, would win the presidency.  But then, that’d be the “will of the electorate,” wouldn’t it?  Obama, in fact, seemed like such a phony candidate to me, during the nomination, that I resolved to never vote for him.  I voted for McKinney in angry and frustrated protest. In fact, he confirmed my worst suspicions.  I’m less concerned about Huntsman’s economic policies, since it doesn’t seem to me, that he’ll likely be any worse than Obama on that score.  I am seriously concerned about his social views, however.

the word “socialism” is demonized in almost all lands and empires; not to the degree as in u.s., tho.
the demonizers, say, in norway or finland, have to be careful what they say about it because half of
the pop in those two countries are socialist [for more equality, which they also get] and are
represented in parliament by a socialist party; now usually called social democratic party. [canada had
just recently elected 104 MP {member parliament} to canadian parliament and that’s why we have a
better life here than americans in america]
demonizers in u.s do not have to worry about social democrats in congress shouting back angry
words at the demonizers or promising to do s’mthing about such attacks.
it seems, there is not a single social democrat in the w.h, congress, or among judges, generals,
cia/fbi agents, MSM columnists, or even police.

and we may not have even one in years or decades if ever? i wonder if OWS is seeing this?  tnx
bozhidar balkas, vancouver

#1) Anyone who would vote for a multi-gazillionaire, white, privileged Mormon to hold public office is an imbecile: a) because white, rich wonderful people don’t “represent” you and me and, b) Mormons HATE government, it’s in their tradition…..
#2) This sentence from the essay: “George Kurzon, an 82-year-old retired physician, said his priority this year is to keep the country from “going down the road to socialism…..” encapsulates beautifully why it is that our country is doomed to a terrible, tortured end. I’m so fucking sick and tired of the word “socialism.” It’s become a sort of magical incantation that lobotomized Americans use whenever they can’t think of anything else to say…....“Oh, that seagull shit in my beer…..f**king socialism!”