If we are to survive this we must change our behavior. The old games that got us here no longer can function. The time has run out on their destructive and wastefulness. Part of evolution includes behavior. Our collective behavior must change.

Clair,

Get along on whose terms?

Gerard June 21 7:13pm

I believe we have already reached a tipping point with regard to polar ice melting. I,m not a scientist but 1 or 2 degrees above freezing is the difference between ice melting and not melting and ice is already melting in polar regions. Since CO2 in the atmosphere hangs around for a century or so we are for all intents and purposes stuck with the situation we have even in the unlikely event that the world stops its polluting right away.

However one thing we must change from the recent past, is the idea that we can only grow to survive. We did, it overstepped the bounds, and we are pulled up short. We must be small, use little, and be durable. Make the smallest imprint on our ecology now. But because of the global depression it is choking off the green technologies to stay with the “cheaper” dirtier GHG multiplying 18th century power sources (oil and coal) that will just continue the transformation of earth and accelerate it to levels not seen since the Permian Extinction 250 million or so years ago.

In the 1970’s the Club of Rome report, E.F. Schumacher‘s “Think Small,” the MIT crew with their computer and president Carter‘s ideas were the ones we should have followed. Now we have grown too much, polluted too much, fished too much, sprawled too much, harvested too much and population grown too much. So now we are hitting the edge of that curve. The only thing next is to plunge to our doom unless we do an about face back to what was proposed in the 1970’s and needs to be done now as fast as possible. To help minimize the destruction and human misery as things continue to change to a more inhospitable Eaarth*.

*Bill McKibben‘s new book “Eaarth: Making a Life On a Tough Planet” first 1/2 details the things going on, going wrong and changing, the latter 1/2 details what can be done to keep it from getting far worse and killing billions of people and fully destroying all that has been made during the past 500 years. What he is looking for is a way to ease and control our decline. It is better to have a parachute than to freefall all the way isn’t it? Better chance of walking away from it. We need to land on our feet and clear our head. Unlike the fools represented by the corporate capitalist consume and grow to infinity like Glenn Beck who not only refuses to see what is going on but believe it must continue at a greater pace and that it is their God given right to do so. That is the real danger we face. Our own people.

“What we need now are the growth theories of the late twentieth and early twenty-first centuries that show that we can invest in discovering and deploying new technologies, that such deployment itself will have strong effects on saving energy and that technological output and the natural environment are closely bound together and mutually dependent.
“We also need practical demonstrations of whatis possible, which will be fundamental to generating change.  For example, the capital cost of solar electricity is swiftly becoming lower, and high voltage DC grids are drastically reducing the costs of electricity transmission.  Renewable energy from dispersed areas (with different variability of sun and wind) can therefore be transmitted over long distances.  With zero-carbon electricity we can have zero=carbon surface transport. And technical progress is moving rapidly—we will find many more such developments along the way.  The power of examples is crucial and we must look particularly to rich countries, with their greater wealth and technologies, to offer them.
“We have already embarked on what will be the most dynamic and creative energy and industrial revolution in our economic history:  the transition to lower carbon growth.  And this growth will be more energy-secure, safer, quieter, cleaner and more biologically diverse.  High carbon growth would kill itself first from the high prices of hydrocarons that could result, and second and more fundamentally,  from the very hostile physical environments it would create.”
(from New York Review of Books June 24, 2010, a review of Bill McKibben’s “Eaaarth! Making a life on a Tough New Planet”.  The reviewer, Nicholas Stern, contends that McKibben’s book is too pessimistic; that advances are already being made, and that pessimism discourages further research, investment and action.

My prior comments have come under attack! I want to express again my desire to have a Government working for the people!

The Jones Act was waived by President Bush—yes, it was—and other countries responded—-KATRINA WAS A DISASTER—BUT THE OIL SPILL IN THE GULF IS BEYOND OUR IMGINATION!

The 330,000 people who have rigs to work on—can’t work on them because Obama ordered a 6 month review!
Is it fair for these men and women to wait on checks to come—filing all the paperwork—and then be at the mercy of our Govt to disperse the $20B.

I COULDN’T CARE LESS ABOUT THE UNIONS—-I COULDN’T CARE LESS ABOUT THE POLITICS—what I do care about is:  Louisiana—Alabama—Mississippi—and Florida!

This area has seen tragedy beyond measure—however, this tragedy could be the financial crisis that breaks AMERICA!  This disaster could (probably will) go up the East Coast—IF OBAMA HAD RECEIVED THE HELP THAT WAS NEEDED THE FIRST FEW DAYS FROM THE 13 COUNTRIES—THE OIL COULD HAVE BEEN REDUCED TREMENDOUSLY FROM COMING INTO THE MARSHES—AND ONTO THE SHORES OF AMERICA!

Let it be known—I CARE ABOUT THE PEOPLE—I CARE ABOUT PEOPLE LOSING THEIR HOMES—BUSINESSES—CAN’T WORK BECAUSE OF A GOVT’S DECISION! 

1.4 MILLION PEOPLE LAST WEEK LOST UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS—-OVER 7 MILLION PEOPLE ARE STILL UNEMPLOYED—THAT DOESN’T COUNT THE 330,000 WAITING FOR OUR GOVT TO ALLOW THEM TO RETURN TO WORK—-THIS DOESN’T COUNT THE BUSINESS WHICH WILL CLOSE BECAUSE THE REFUSAL TO ALLOW COUNTRIES INTO THE GULF TO GIVE US EXTRA SHIPS—EXTRA SKIMMERS—EXTRA MEN—TO ADVERT A MAJOR OIL SPILL OF WHICH AMERICA HAS NEVER SEEN BEFORE!

I CARE ABOUT ALL THE PEOPLE LISTED ABOVE—DROP THE POLITICS—DROP THE JONES ACT FOR RIGHT NOW-PREVENT THE OIL FROM GOING TO FLORIDA! 

If you have never lost a home-life savings—been unemployed—you DON’T HAVE ANY IDEA HOW IT FEELS!
I DO KNOW HOW IT FEELS!

It’s the the right wingers stop their blame games and start supporting the govt at-least in areas where national welfare is involved.

This is what I remember about what happened after Katrina.  Not only did Bush screw the pooch handling every single aspect of it before, during, and after, he also refused foreign aid.

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Many_nations_offer_material_aid_to_
hurricane_victims;_Bush_refuses_to_accept

I remember this happening, and I am not happy about revisionist crap about Bush and the “Jones Act”.  That is simply another lame attempt for the right wing to get in a swipe at the unions.  Nothing more or less.

I would recommend reading Bill Mckibben‘s “Eaarth” about what needs to be done in a radically changing world. Right now, not for our grand kids who will inherit and even more changed world from what is going on swiftly today. [Somethings predicted to happen in 2050 may happen as early as 2020.]

It is too late to stop the climate rising 3 degrees C but we could at least keep from going any higher. We just can’t live like it is 1960. Too many people believe it is the God given right to pollute, use resources wastefully and not think or care about the future. That needs to change now.

The depression is hurting us in other ways such as limiting change over to greener tech. So we stay with oil, natural gas and coal. With our gov’t promoting all three and a new round of nuclear (weapons) power plants that cost much, pollute in other ways and are target risks. Not even counting where do you put the waste?

We have screwed the pooch and if we aren’t careful it could develop rabies and bite us on the ass. It would be our fault and no one others.

The trust of leadership and the strength and wisdom to know how and when to accurately pursue “GREEN” is just no there right now!

This week 1.4 million have lost all unemployment benefits—-do you think they can buy a new Hybrid—do you think they will have a home to purchase new windows—solar panels—-

Secondly, I want to know why Obama refused 13 countries to assist in the clean up.  These countries contacted our leaders within the first day or two—offered their ships—their equipment—their man-power—ALL 13 COUNTRIES WERE REFUSED TO ENTER THE GULF—TO MAINTAIN THE OIL—PROTECTING THE SHORES-THE FISH==Seagulls==etc.—OBAMA SAID NO I WON’T WAIVE THE JONES ACT—-

Criticize President Bush—but BUSH WAIVED THE JONES ACT RIGHT AFTER KATRINA—ALLOWING OTHER COUNTRIES TO AID AND ASSIST ANY WAY THEY COULD!

Now that BP has talked to the President—testified before Congress—-and after GALLONS AND GALLONS OF OIL ACCUMULATING ON THE SHORES—THE WAIVER HAS BEEN LIFTED!

If we had accepted the help keeping BP fully aware they are responsible—will pay the price—to protect and to preserve the creatures of the sea—the businessmen and fisheries—and the marshes—-HELP SHOULD HAVE BEGUN WHEN THESE COUNTRIES WANTED AND COULD HAVE ACT WITHIN THE FIRST FEW DAYS!

The explosion at sea (whether by an accident—terrorists) THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR OUR GOVT NOT TO HAVE WAIVED THE JONES ACT AND ALLOWED ALL HANDS ON DECK!  There really is no excuse for this—

William W. W.
Talk to your grandson. The sooner he learns the facts from a reliable source the less likely he is to pick up on all the lies and misrepresentations out there.

WWW:

Your 6/19 3:39 post should be required reading.  Bravo.

Coupla things…

Jimmy Carter put solar panels on the White House; Ronald Ray-Gun (Zap!) removed them - and we never looked “forward” again (even under Clinton and Gore).

If we are really at the point of no return, I can’t wait until we start attempting (serious) geo-engineering of the atmosphere.  Think that will make things better?  Or worse?  The question is scarily rhetorical.

Peace.

Mr. Samson…

To stay with your analogy, I am getting the distinct impression that we do not have the political will to even slow the rate of acceleration, i.e., back the foot off the gas pedal. Emerging economies need energy. Our own power grid is atrocious, from what I’ve seen.

I had a contract job with a major power company in the midwest that has 25 plants including 2 nukes and one gas fired.  I was at 16 of the coal plants doing training and they were truly a nightmare.  It was like being stuck in 1972.  The control systems on the boilers were ancient (not as old as I’ve seen, though… ever heard of pneumatic PID boiler controls?) because the plants were supposed to be replaced with new ones under the Clean Air Act.  These were grandfathered in but were not allowed to have refurbs done, only replacements.

These boilers are dirty and they belch CO2.  They are undependable and they have a crew of cranky, crusty people firing them who scoff at the notion of updating to a maintenance management system because they already know what’s wrong with the boilers.  Everything.

If this power system is typical of what the rest of the country has, may Thor help us.  We’re screwed.  It will cost trillions just to demolish the old systems as they are undoubtedly full of asbestos.  I’ve seen THAT done too, where every single brick of a brickset boiler had to be put in a box and wrapped in plastic by two guys in full body suits. 

Remember what happened to Jimmy Carter when he suggested that we might have to expect a bit less?  The GOP went NUTZ on him.  Lower our standard of living?  Hell no, we won’t consider using less energy, even if it means we’re going to destroy our own race.

Regarding the carbon cycle, it seems as though we are trying to accelerate carbon accumulation in the atmosphere by clear-cutting forests by 17 bajillion acres a day.  Maybe ADM can come up with a way to recover carbon from the air and make it into a tasty, chocolaty treat.

I have my grandson visiting, this is the second week.  I hate to talk about stuff like this with him because nobody should have that on their mind when they’re 14 years old.  But there’s going to be fun for kids of all ages ahead, and there’s no stopping the car.

To add to your analogy, I think I’d say that the car has no working brakes and the road ends at the rim of the Grand Canyon.

-Wexler

The problem with nuke plants and dangerous deep-water drilling projects:

Their supporters will try to tell everyone how low the probabilities are that an accident will occur.

The problem is that if you constantly do this thing that has a low odds of occurring, and do it at an expanding number of sites, then it becomes a near certainty that such a disaster will occur.  The only question is where and when.

Thing about a casino that has a very low odds, very big jackpot slot game.  The odds of you winning on this $5 bill that you are putting into the machine are extremely low.  However, its a certainty that one day someone will hit the jackpot.

The odds of any given nuke plant blowing up today might be extremely low.  The odds of any given deep-water drilling project failing might also be low.

But when you do this all the time at multiple places, eventually an Chernobyl will occur. And eventually a Deepwater Horizon will occur.  Just like someone will eventually win that jackpot.  If the casino keeps the slot game going, eventually someone else will hit the jackpot again. If we keep operating nuke plants, eventually another Chernobyl will occur.  If we keep doing this sort of deep water drilling, eventually another disaster like this will occur.

And technological improvements that lower the odds still further only effect the rate at which these disasters occur.  You might get a longer ‘mean time between failures’ if you lower the odds, but you will still get the failures.

The problem is that we act like the low odds mean that these things will never occur.

To know where Obama is going with the oil spill, just notice how fast he dropped any plans to aid the ‘recovery’ from Katrina after he no longer needed to lie to get our votes.

Obama will ditch any oil spill recovery plans just like he ditched his Katrina recovery talk as soon as he thinks he can get away with it.

To Mr. Wexler.

The problem is, we are already past the point of being able to do anything about it except control how bad it might become.

The key is that the cause of greenhouse warming is the concentration of greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere.  The higher this is, the more heat they trap and don’t let off into space.

In our monkey-debates, we concentrate on emissions.  Which is what we can control.  But we act like if we stop the emissions then the greenhouse warming will stop.

At some point, there’s a level of greenhouse gasses (from all sources) going into the atmosphere that equals the rate at how fast they are lost from the atmosphere. That’s the level where the concentration stays the same.

We long since went passed that level of emissions.  As is noticeable by the rising temperatures.  I’m not sure when we passed it, but since we started seeing record temps in the 90’s, it was long, long before then that we started raising the concentration and the temperature.

So, if we only cut back to that level of emissions from way back when that was in balance, then we still leave today’s concentration of gasses in the atmosphere.  Which means the temperature will continue to rise at its current rate.

This is still better than increasing emissions and accelerating still further the rate at which the temperatures are rising.  But its key to know that even going back to that way-back-when level of emissions where things were balanced is not going to stablize the temperatures.

To do that, we need a still lower level of emissions to start to reduce the concentration of greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere to start to lower the rate of increase and then eventually maybe get it back to the point where the temperatures are no longer going up.

An analogy is that we are in a car that most everyone can see is going way too fast.  And most of the arguments seem only to be about whether to keep our foot flat on the floor, or whether to slightly lift our foot off the accelerator by 5% or so.  But the only question from such a debate is how fast do we continue to accelerate, not do we ever solve our critical problem of being in a car that’s still going way too fast.

‘strong rhetorical support’

The problem is, this is all you ever get from Obama.

Ignore the words and go look up the amounts of money that go to ‘green energy’ research and projects, and compare it to how much we give the oil, gas and nuclear industries in subsidies, tax breaks and free insurance for when a nuke plant destroys a state someday.

And remember, when Obama says ‘green’ energy, he’s often referring to nuclear power. 

Ignore Obama’s words.  His entire political persona is built on lying to the left, ie us, and then doing just the opposite.

So, for all the pretty words in his speech the other night, notice that he didn’t propose to take one dollar away from BP and spend it on ‘green’ energy instead.

Follow the money.  And not a dime is moving from ‘BP’ to ‘Green’ under Obama.

The “climategate” accusation is a red herring.  What a few people said in emails does not reverse the general consensus by scientists worldwide that we are setting ourselves up for a calamity.

The patterns of drought and ice melt are just the beginning. In 20 years, possibly 10, we will see desert conditions in the middle of the US.  By the time we wake up to it there will be no way to stop it.

So, in other words, nothing is going to happen regarding climate change policy.  And most of all it is because of the term “global warming.”  The GOP wants people to think that if they have a cold winter that they have proof that the climate isn’t getting warmer.

What a bunch of fucking idiots.  It would serve us right if we extinct ourselves.  There will probably be a nuclear exchange over water before it’s all said and done.  Then the OathKeepers and other apocalyptic 2nd Amendment jerkoffs can run around playing Mad Max and being the big honcho in their neck of the desert.

Cut to the chase and the naked truth is that powerful, mostly republican power
brokers, many in congress and many operating in the shadows, dictate the energy
policy of this country for their own profit. this certainly does not include
sustainable and/or clean energy, as it does not profit them enough to implement
on more than a token scale.

Imagine them non existent, for a moment; After Pres Carter installed solar panels
on the white house roof and began a push for sustainable energy and energy
conservation. imagine where we would be now relative to energy independence if
his course had been followed and enhanced over the years. Rather, it was
obstructed and obliterated starting when the noble Reagan took office and the
repugs famously and gleefully kicked the solar panels off of the white house roof.
they have not changed one iota except to get more greedy if that is possible.

The author touts a book, quotes statistics least he cause corporate malaise, uses Katrina to toss jounalistic salt over his shoulder as he glances at GCC ,places hope in Waxman/Markley and presents the vaugue hope that Mr.O will come to his senses and do something.

    I now think I understand Christs admonition to the “lukewarm”!!

    Bow wow wow wow wow wow.

“The moment has come again for leadership toward a green New Deal, in cooperation with all of the major economic powers, that can revive the economy, restore the Earth and preserve a decent life for all of our children”

Leadership?  Pres. Obama cannot lay himself open to the probable results of his taking leadership in any policy that works against the corporate powers behind the throne.

A green New Deal?  Specifically what does that mean? Can the author give a rough outline of a plan. and specifically what ordinary people can do beyond changing light bulbs?  Step one, two, three etc.

Why wait upon cooperation of other “major powers” when we are the main culprits in the creation of greenhouse gases?  We should and could lead the way.

Interesting that Joe puts “revive the economy” ahead of “restore the earth and “preserve a decent life for all our children.”  Only in America!

New York Green Party gubernatorial candidate Howie Hawkins and US Senate candidates Colia Clark and Cecile Lawrence have called for a Green New Deal, as have many other Green candidates across the country.

Yet another shill for a PNAC-like call(cry?plead?demand?) for another “9/11-like event” or like Rhambo “you never want a serious crisis to go to waste” to create YET ANOTER layer/branch/ARM of the FedGov to use against us all.

The inherant desire for MORE and BIGGER and MORE POWERFUL Central government is NOT a “Right” wing monopoly.

Soviet like planning with Soviet like EXECUTION of the “planning”....it is evident that THAT is the kind of America the author(and the publishers?)the Elite and the conditioned American Idol’ed and Laker Fan-like masses “want”.

Mr Conason’s ode to the Ghosts of Mussolini, FDR and Uncle Joe Stalin are quite predictable..and revealing.

“The comparison between the utter failure of the Bush
administration and the missteps and errors of the Obama
White House is fundamentally false.”

Huh?  You lost me there.

“History teaches us that we learn nothing from history.”  Hegel

balkas seems to be full of bunkum.

To `teach` or teach others is very easy. `Teach` means socalled teachings.
But to teach self is nigh impossible. Actually, one cannot teach self by lonesome self; one also needs educators.
But u aint gonna find even one in holliwood, TV, congress, MSM, army echelons, judiciary, cia, fbi, city police, private spies, WH.

It is the MSM collumnists that do most of the `teachings`. They get paid well for doing that! The other components of the OK PEOPLE can trust collumnists to say just the right things to the NOT OK people.

S`mtime, like during the gulf of tonkin incident, collumists quiet dwn s`mwhat and generals-pols start thundering.

And, then, it is MSM who can trust pols and admirals to say just the right thing to nonruling classes of people.

In short, uncle sam always has at least 10 mouths to speak from.
We can see this happening with the oil gush. But now all ten mouths are speaking ab it at the same time.
But not the people who know al ab drilling for oil.
The wise old geezers are wisely staying quiet. tnx

Cap and Trade brought to you by British Petroleum.

Matt Taibbi has written in Rollingstone about the next big bubble bonanza that is planned if the US will just pass cap and trade legislation.

Now the big news out of the White House is not what the hell we’re going to do, like nationalize BP for starters, but on the need for cap and trade.

Guess who benefits?  Never let a good crisis go to waste.

Nonsense! The Pew Poll from last October states the opposite and is heavily supported by other recent polls.

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1386/cap-and-trade-global-warming-opinion

The Woods Institute Poll mentioned in the article is way off the mark and not independently supported by any other poll.

http://woods.stanford.edu/research/americans-support-govt-solutions-global-warming.html

Read them both and make up your own mind.