ofersince72, June 22 at 11:27 pm #

and I am sick and tired of people like you defending
these criminals…..............................
******************************************

Where have you ONCE seen me defend BP or its partners? I defy you to find ONE PLACE where I defended them.

You, my friend, are full of it—and you try to cover the fact that you have no facts and are full of it with your primal scream of a bazillion posts that say..NOTHING!  Even those who agree with you cannot stand this repeated deliberate clogging of threads.  Who reads them?  Even YOU admit you don’t expect them to be read or responded to.

Ardee , you posters one Truth Dig, you intellectual
giants, you all don’t want to talk about our federal
election system, you know , this fradulent system,
especailly the primaries. Oh you will talk the Citizens
United Decision, of course, every thing was just fine
before that , right?

  The primary system we have in our federal elections
especially the presidential primary is like a kindergarden
show. I mean childish, and rigged, rigged all to hell.
and nobody wants to talk about reform of our election
process.  You will talk about Sara Palin till your horse.
I will quit, because I could fill these pages up talking
about our fradulent primary election system that nobody
wants to talk about…............later again,racist dem

By the way Ardee, when they get their thumping,
it’s gonna be about the health care again.
NAFTA will play into into somewhat, cuz the greens
are going to promise to renegociate, and re do health
care. and really introduce a meaningful energy bill

and other stuff…..and nobody is going to take the Dems
              word for anything because they are
              racist liars…..................

Hey smartee Ardee,

You know what this goober did?  I called up every
candidates campaign headquarters at least five times
asking questions.
Obama’s I called at least ten times, because I was looking
like hell for a reason to vote for him…I already knew
his voting record in the Senate, wasn’t impressed at all
but still was looking for a reason to jump on the
first black phenom Obamarama….wanted to vote him.
They didn’t have any answers for the questions that I
asked,  I would stump them because they would say, nobody
has asked that question before and the answer isn’t on
my paper nor the website…..
After the tenth time, I realized, this man does not stand
for anything and his voting record goes from stink to
mediocre, nope….write in again….
Smartee Ardee….you need to learn what questions to ask
of the candidates that you plan to vote for, then make
them COMMIT…..voting requires mature people smartee
ardee so we don’t get those corpocrat racists that end
up turning people like you into racists tooo like you are.
Of course, you may have always been a racist , don’t know.

More importantly their ardee ardee,  look in the mirror

who elected these these people???

So when the Democrats go down (and they will, and deserve
it, there are millions feel like me) and then start
begging, and its time to vote them back,,,,,
MAKE THEM COMMIT,,,not like Obama, all he had to do was
say change a million times, besides that, he came along
when a goober could have won.
IN WRITING….Don’t just take a state legislators word
that they will be a good federal lawmaker. MAKE THEM
COMMIT…........BE A SMART VOTER…............
(Like I was Ardee , in 2008)(you were the goober)
{voted obama} However ardee, he is going to be putting
on a bunch of makeup , a ton of it between now and
2012…..He is going to have a complete facial, he is
going to say he is changed man, for the little people,
and you and JD, and ITW, and Mfreeze and fifty and bunch
others are going to fall hook , line and sinker once again
Smartee Ardee, and he is going to screw you again.

You hurt my feelings Smartee Ardee, calling my names,
saying my posts are needless.

I believe them to be very needful, nobody else is saying
these things, they are just repeating the same things
over, and over, and over, and over , again, and again,
and again….from when i first started to now, same shit.

You no the Democrat Party really takes advantage of you
and ITW, and JDMysticDJ, and others. They know , no matter
what they do or don’t do, they will get your vote. They
can put a knife in your back (as they have the past four
years) and you will still vote for them.

That is why I am glad that by 2012, they will probably
not be in the majority.  It will be good for them, they
can learn from the Republicans how to stop legislation
when they are not in the majority. They can learn to
filibuster like the Republicans can do, require sixty votes like the republicans know how to do, just obstruct.
They have had good teachers, hope they learned something.

Then when they are really hurting, maybe they will stop
being whores, start representing the public, get rid
of that draconian super-delegate thing.
How many of the delegates at the convention are
“super-delegates” smartee ardee, and what is the
significance , smartee ardee, I asked JD that question
but he wouldn’t answer. Will you , smartee ardee????????

I know that I am just goober the baboon ardee
however, there is one that i know about pretty good

C O L L U S I O N

That is what the Dems and Pubs had going on that
no health care bill, everyone came out good,

now the Pubs, they got the bill they wanted and also
were able to make it appear to their consituents that
they were fighting government handouts ......worked
out good for them…..all acting indignent on C-Span
in front of everybody, lookig like they were fighting
big government, when they knew damn well all the bill
was is a big handout for their buddies in industry.
a win , win for the Pubs….......do da day
Same thing for the Dems….they looked like they were
fighting the Pubs tooth and nail to get some good health
care for Americans, did this for a year, fight , fight
them Pubs, made the Dems some good TV too.
AND IN THE END THE PHARMECUTICAL AND INSURANCE COMPANIES
MADE OUT LIKE BANDITS ON TAXPAYER MONEY….
That is called collusion Smartee Ardee.
Happens a whole lot….They make it appear like they
are fighting each other, but really both are getting
exactly what they want…because most of the public is
sleeping and trusting….and they are CORPORATE RACISTPIGS

I solemnly sware,  to tell the Truth

  The whole Truth

  And nothing but the Truth

  So help me God…..

hard to believe they all said that with one hand
on the bible, isn’t it ???

Smartee Ardee, since you don’t have the balls to
answer those questions yourself , and also another
Democrat Racist, I will answer for you…....

They piddled and paddled, fiddled and faddled
for a year on a health care bill , doing nothing else,
and nothing for health care,
and used that for an excuse to do nothin else…....

Because they are Corporate Racist Pigs…...........

these are all legitimate political questions

    S M A R T E E   A R D E E

  please answer them for goober the baboon .

Smartee Ardee, maybe you, I am sure you can, answer
this question about Democrats too.

Because this is just another tell tale that Democrats
are real, real, real, racist pigs…so please answer

When they had that one in a lifetime event with the
filibuster proof Senate, and huge majority in House and
black Democrat President….
Why did the Democrats not force an up and down vote
on getting those people in the District of Columbia a
vote????  I believe the Democrat leadership is REALLY,
REALLY, RACIST.  They waited, couldn’t force a vote with-
out adding all sorts of amendments that made the bill
unpassable…..They are Racist , just like you Ardee,smtee

Have another question for Mr. smartee smartee Ardee ardee

Mr Smartee, another one about a petition…they puzzel me

This petition that Mr. Grayson of Florida has…..
It is about peace…...Why would a Democrat have to
have a petition on peace?????????? Mr. Smartee Ardee???

When they had,  same question ardee, a filibuster proof
Senate and a huge majority in the House, and a Democrat
president?  Why would a Democrat need a petition for peace
?????  It puzzeles the the hell out of me ardee, you and
JD, and ITW,  tell me how wonderful Democrats are
Why do they have to petition their own party, ardee?????

Hey, racist Ardee, got a question, and you are smart
and I am a goober, som maybe you answer for me….

On those petitions…..first Brown’s
Didn’t at one point the Dems have a filibuster proof
Senate, and huge majority in the House, and a Democrat
President?  And weren’t those Ivy grads smart enough
to realize that this is a once in a lifetime event, and

maybe while they had this majority, it might be a good
time to pass some campaign finance reform?  Why weren’t
they smart enough to see this Ardee, surely a petition
sponser would have been smart enough to see this and
offered this legislation and made sure it went to vote.
I am dumb, and you are smart,,,, please answer this…
or is this the type question that you want me gone for???

And Mr Important name thrower, Ardee, Mr. knows so
much that he can call other goober…....

what do you know???  What do you know about the ecology
smart ass?  It seems no one assossiated with the
Democrat Party knows much at all other than what their
mainstream press feeds them..

They don’t know a damn thing about the soil.
OH, thats right, your an intellictual, thats just dirt
to you….
see ya racist…..

Ardee, you are probably a petition signer too.

Like Alan Grayson’s peace petition, since our votes weren’t petition enough for the democrat party..yeah
an Alan Grayson peace petition,  only Grayson doesn’t
want peace, he said so himself, didn’t you him when he
intoduced his poor man legislation….I know you did
racist.
  And then there is Sharrod Brown’s petition, campaign
finance reform… oh oh my my, how sweet ...Mr.populist.
who votes for war…and Mr.Senator Brown, who knew damn
well the Supreme Court docket , months ahead, and knew
like everyone else what the decision was going to be,
waited, just like our president did, until after the
decision to be surprised and indignant….fooled you
anyway , racist…  You like this racist government be-
cause that is what you are….....................
ardee the racist…..............................

Mr. Education, as you think you are in your own mind

you are fence straddler Ardee,  You never say anything,

just ramble a couple paragraphs of something everyone

already knows, you never take a postion, real safe stance.

You just like others, rattle about nothing, and I have

never, ever seen you post one solution to any of our
countries many problems , you just always state the
problem, which everyone already knows
You are a pig, a racist, a fence straddler, a put your
finger in the wind, which is the popular trend type of guy
a follower, a sheeple, filled with some misguided
self-importance,

Throw some of that great education you have on me
you Racist slut….You like throwing names Ardee?
I haven’t done that on Truth Dig, but I can lower my
standards down to Truth Dig ,you little ass kissin racist
slut

Are you taunting me Ardee?

Because there is nothing more fun.
That kind of name calling will only keep me on here and
up your ass forever pal.

The big problem is, I tell the truth about your beloved
Democrat Party, and is your problem with me you
racist pig slut.

Inherit The Wind, June 22 at 8:56 pm

I agree ,obviously, as should every honest and sincere participant here. Patience is required, this goober promised to be gone by 7/01….just turbo scroll a few more days….

From the most extreme form of conservative government,
Libertarian, to a leftist communist government , there
is always going to be some form of corruption.
Limiting and minimizing corruption then becomes the best
answre.
  The best way to accomplish this is to have an overall
honest and open govenment, then the corruption usually
spills out and is easily spotted.

  When everything is always secretive, just about every
fact of government behind closed doors, the public shut
out, always a dozen different super select intelligence
committees, national security advisors that don’t have to
answer to the public, CIA , overt and covert operating
secretly everywhere, everything a secret, secret , secret
even national disasters , secret, secret, secret….
There will be more corruption that carter has liver pills
and that is what we have today in America, a secret
government , that shuts the public out of all policy and
decisions.. and that is just why there is so much corruuption.  We need open government in a very bad way!!!
If we have enemies , we should know about it…However
it is because our military is not used to protect us, but
to extract resources from areas that don’t belong to us
is why we have enemies to begin with…Corporations use
our money to secure the area…then reap the profits for
themselves.
  Another example of secrecy, we believe that BP laid
20billion on Obama…...that is no where near accurate,
yet we believe it is….negotiations on this money is no
where worked out,,,they didn’t lay that on us…
SECRECY…..IT IS NOT TO PROTECT US..BUT TO SCREW US.
We desperatly need to open up these secret agencies for
public scrutiny….......BADLY…....BADLY .....BADLY….

Then in the General Elections , I will go back and

vote G R E E N…..........

but no matter in 2012, the Democrats are getting THUMPED.

I am not even going to vote in the Democrat primaries
in 2012, might even registar republican for the first
in life just vote for Paul , give him a little push
so one of those other republican assholes don’t get it.

Because the Democrats , with their miserable performance
so far…...THEY ARE GETTING THUMPED IN 2012 !!!!!

Inherit The Wind,  and   JDMysticDJ

Do you believe that all the people that came out and
voted the Democrats into power in the last two election
cycles did this because the love Democrats, or even were
were Democrats…Because you are simple minded if you
believe this.

They were voting against a certain policy and for a
change….that is just why the smooth politician kept
using that word in his campaign, he knew all his supporters weren’t democrats, just looking for change.
They didn’t get it…...and your buddies are getting
thumped….this election and the next….no matter if
you put Whitehouse, Grayson, Kucinach or whoever.

I T W

they continue to spew oil in my Gulf
they continue to suffcate my friends in the ocean
they continue to machine gun and bomb my friends and
            brothers and sisters all over the
            world

and I am sick and tired of people like you defending
these criminals…..............................

Inherit The Wind

Did you really believe that I thought or wanted anyone
to respond??

this thread was about gone, and becoming
an aplolgist for liars, thives, murderers, and cheaters,
so I responded….to murderers being given
blessings,  my god given duty…..........

THIRTY-TWO POSTS IN A ROW!!!!
Followed by 11 posts in a row!

ofersince72, you need help.  This is a malady, this need to post repeatedly and repeatedly even when nobody responds.

My biggest bewilderment is why all registared
Democrats don’t share my same anger.

The Democrat Party doesn’t even stand for JUSTICE
anymore, and that was my reason that I have been
hanging on to my Democrat Registration.

By the way JD , if that is what it takes to make

the federal government to lift what it has on me,

every penny is going right back to the government,

as I said, it ain’t the money

I was told by legal counsel, that this injustice
requires that minimum to go to court.

B A B O O N

is still my favorite name that I have been called on
Truth Dig..

  They are much more intelligent than any Democrat.

What do you call what our government is doing
in Afghan and Pakistan.?

  I call it murder…..what do you call it????

What do you call the auctioning off of Iraq’s oil?
  I call it stealing…

What do you call fudging the numbers of Social Security
within the federal budget?
  I call it cheating

The liar thing…..there are so many examples , I need
not repeat them all, nor is there enough space on
Truth Dig.

Since 2006 , how much has the unemployment rate
gap between white males and black males closed?

Since 2006, how much more equitable has public
education got?

Look around you, my criticisms of the Democrat Party
are all true, and they have been as racist as the
Republicans…open eyes, look at the numbers…
Since 2006, how much has our prison population dropped?

JD,  what percentage of the delegates at the
party convention are labeled Super Delegates?, and
why won’t the Democrat Party go to a straight
poplar vote in the primaries???

It was the Democrat leadership that told FDR to
trash H. Wallace and pick up conservative Truman.

Don’t need it, you threw the first insults months ago..
I ate the insults here on Truth Dig for six months…
without any response…I am sure you remember the names
that you called me…
  No , I am not hysterical in my criticisms of the
Democrat Party and regardless of when the DLc was formed,
it always had a leadership counsil. If you are denying
that they don’t control the nomination and conventions
you have been real involved with the Democrat Party.
  Nor am I by far the only one with the same criticisms
of the Democrat Party. Debunk my my criticisms if you
don’t like them..but I very seriously doubt you are able
to,  you like criticisms to be one way…such as your
name calling to me.,,, however JD, both of us could care
less about the others name calling, neither of us virgins
to that.  If you are refering to Cher’s
Thieves, Thieves,  Tramps and Thieves.,, that shoe does
fit both parties quit well,  debunk it, you can’t.
  Since you seem to have little knowledge or don’t want
to accept who really runs America, I will tell you…,,
They don’t call themselves anything, Dem or Pub..
They don’t need to…they own two parties, control all
the media. I need not to list what all Time/Warner, Murdock,Westinghouse, General Electric and Viacom run.
The overlords control them and both parties, and apparnently you too.
  It should be pretty evident the timing of the Arizona
and the Nebraska immigration laws recently passed, that
they will have an effect on the coming elections. It wasn’t either a Democrat or Rupublican idea, it was your
overlords idea. Used to polorize the sheeple. You see
that will keep many voting within the two party system.
That is why the overlords contrived them right around
election time…It is an invented issue. It will have
certain ones wanting closed borders who zenophobic voting
Republican, and do gooder “feel gooders” looking for a
reason to vote Democrat that reason.
  You see JD, the overlord’s bread and butter is Centrist,
they don’t care which of the parties rule, they just don’t
want the sheeple like you to stray far from the center,
their bread and butter.
Just another week , thats all time before this mirror
that I have been holding before you goes. Isn’t that grand

Ofersince72

Are you O.K. now…? If not, take a few deep breaths, and try to relax a little.

I’m sorry, but I’ll have to retract my statement saying that I agree with your criticisms of the Democratic Party, my friend, you have become a little hysterical in your criticisms of Democrats.

You’re a fool, for calling me a fool, because I called Clinton a fool. I’ll “Double fool” you on that one, (When you’re “Double fooled” you can get fooled again, or twice, not all of the time, or some of the time, just twice.) Remember that my friend.

“Liars, cheaters, murderers, and thieves” … Isn’t that a song by Cher?

The DLC wasn’t formed until 1985, so there’s a pretty good chance they didn’t destroy McGovern’s Campaign. Maybe you meant to say the DNC; did your mother destroy McGovern’s campaign?

My advise {sic} is to go for the 50 mil, but I’ve got an ulterior motive, I’m hoping you’ll throw few bucks my way.

You have insulted me grievously, so I guess I’ll cancel my goodbye tribute to you.

I quit subscribing the The Nation Mag..  about

six months after Katrina became editor.. I saw which

way it was going….

They have good ones, Jeromy S., mostly though

a sickening apologist with John Nichol and Katrina.

That is oldest running periodicle in America.
It used to stand for values,  sold out to get subscriptions.  I believe i cancelled in 96 or 97.

You Democrats throw Chomsky’s name, Parenti, Fisk
Goodman ,  all those names around whenever it is
convientient for you.

Yet everyone of them say,,,,don’t vote Democrat…

The Democrat Party went out of their to help defeat

McGovern in 1972,  Mike Gravel had to stand by himself

to try to end the draft…..and the Democrats have got

steadily worse since then….even amended rules of the

party so the DLC could influence who gets nominated.

Since then, they have had racist policy equally as bad

as the republicans…...

But you don’twant reform,, you want to keep the Democrat

  Party, the same racist , warmongering Party that it is.

 
  Who is your next token you put up as the SAVIOUR ??

  Whitehouse,??? Grayson???? HO HO HO…...

  Those tricks won’t work anymore….not after the last one

At least Truth Dig seems to have pulled its

  Steve Forbes’ anti-labor, anti-union advertising

  after I made a comment about it.

  You Democrat supporters care to debate on the Democrats
  role in the destruction of unions and labor and benifits
  and wages…..............?????????????????????????

and you racist hypocrit Democrats

  I didn’t go into the last fifty years of

  policy towards the American Indian

  and you Democrats have the nerve to point

  your crooked racist fingers.

and for those of you that maybe sincerly concerned

and not just a democrat mouthpiece…

I suggest you visit..Glen Ford’s

Black Agenda Report website

You hear me Jackson? West? Dyson? et.al you blacks

  pundits that have been leading your people to vote

  against their own self-interest for years so you
  may live your life of leisure and riches.. as you

  watch your people slip further and further in America’s

  own version of Apartheid…..

And since you Democrats are such racist and warmongers

  I hope to hades that your world caves in on you

  in 2010 and in 2012,  it will serve you racist

  warmongers, cheaters, thieves and murderers justice.

Democrats,

  who forced an economic policy on our neighbor to the

  south that destroyed a nation,  and keep delivering

  drug policy that is further destroying a nation,

  are going to have the nerve to point their crooked

  racist finger.

Democrats,

  who sponsered policy since the 1970s that turned

  Central Africa into cesspool of genocide and pollution

  for their oil industry overlords, to nations that

  were always self-relient for food, now to clear cut

  and polluted to sustain life and millions are going

  starve to death this year because of this policy

  have the nerve to point their crooked racist fingers.

Democrats,

  who helped the government of South Africa keep the

  system of Apartheid as long as they possibly could,

  are going to point their crooked racist fingers.

Democrats

  who don’t care how many brown people we drop bombs on

  or deliver shock and awe to, or how many brown people

  we steal from

  while they let white Isreal do the same to brown people

  are going to have the nerve to point their crooked

  racist finger.

Democrats,

  Who helped the Republicans destroy our federal

  prison system and turn it into one of the fastest

  growth industries in our country, mostly nonviolent

  blacks populating these prisons…

  Are going to have the nerve to point their crooked

  racist fingers.

Democrats,

  Who knew well before they pulled the funding to Acorn

  that the pimp story was fabricated,  and did more to

  bring down Acorn then the republicans, are going to

  point their crooked racist fingers.

Democrats,

  who handed Reagon their 100 to 1 ratio and have

  their own versions of Clarance Tomas,  are going to
  have the nerve to point their crooked racist fingers.

Democrats,  who let the schools in the getto turn to
          rubble, are going to have the nerve to
          point their crooked racist finger

Democrats,  who helped get the unemployment rate for
blacks to the 30% level,
  Democrats,  who helped incarcerate and fill our prisons
with black men,

  are going to have the nerve to point the finger at
their rival for power.

Democrats, who helped sponser drug violence in the
Gettos the last forty years have the nerve to label
themselves as the party of tolerance while dropping their
lethal weapons anywhere they care,

  have the nerve to point their crooked finger at
the Pauls…......

The best exuse you democrat supporters can come up
with to rationalaize your vote for cheaters, liars,
murderers, and thieves is pulling the racist card.

  After the Democrats have kept their boot on the
throats of blacks for the last forty years, how small.

Hello Democrat supporters,

  supporters of fascism, hiding behind a transparent
cloak.  It is so humorous you all using the cloak of
racism again for your lesser than evil exuse to keep
voting racists, cheaters, liars, murderers, and thieves
into office.
  Perpetuating lies about about the party you support
in order to keep things the same. You believe no one sees
through the racist tags you racists are employing to
rationalize your vote for liars, cheaters, murderers,
and thieves.

So since the 1972 elections,on what great legecy are
the Democrats getting vote?  They had control of
Congress for quite a few of these years.  The republicans
can lay out quite a few accomplishments since then,
not that I like them, but got what they set out for.

How bout them Democrats since 1972 that got us to this
great torn apart infastructure, gettos, wars and debt.??

You are never to old to learn this JD

  You are a fool , to call another man a fool,

  especially if you don’t know the journey of the one
  that you are calling a fool….

  remember that JD…......

It isn’t to much different from the Pat Tillman story,

except my ordeal lasted a year and a half, and I somehow
was able to survive,, mostly thanks some marines.

Conyers and Kucinach know paperwork I have,

USN told them to back off, cause it has a lot of
embarassement
 
especially the 35 year VA disability compensation fraud.

there is no way they want that can of worms opened.
involves ten people I know of.
If they open up,,,,,then they gotta open em allll up.
see what I mean???

And you what else JD….

I am holding enough paperwork to file a fifty million
dollar lawsuit against our government…...

  and won’t do it…..against advise…....

because I want them to do the right thing, thats all I
want…..not the money….

My mo was a good liberal but my dad is where most of my
political thought came from

He was published at times in Ramparts Magazine
Washington Post, Baltimore Sun and a few other
periodicals.
  Almost cost him his job,,, he didn’t give a rats ass,
he had his thirty years in.

There are many rules of the Democrat Party that you
probably don’t JD.  They sure aren’t democratic.

My mother was a member of the DNC.
Her prize possessions before died were pictures of her
and Clinton together.
  We used to battle and battle me and mom over democratic
policy.,,,over the phone 3000 miles from each other.
She loved it and so did I.

Of course , the DLC was a little miffed that McGovern
got the nomination to begin with…..

so they changed their rules to make sure that their
man would always be the one to get nominated…

JD…..Do you know how they do that,,
    or am I going to have to educate you on that toooo.

In 1972 the DLC helped the Republicans defeat
McGovern…....they were successful

McGovern lost by about 20 million poplar votes.

All the anti-war that was going on…and McGovern lost
by that much…...

Go figure that out JD….....I already did , years ago…

JD you and the democrat party are the racist
and bigots…....and fools !!!!!

You are the fool and rasict JD.  Who are your to call
anybody a fool???? FOOL. DOUBLE FOOL.!!!!!!!!

By Not One More!, June 21 at 4:10 pm #

Regarding your recent post.

“JD writes: My initial post on this subject was to point out that many on the left are facilitating the rise to power of proto-fascists, but the discussion quickly morphed into a discussion of the viability of third party politics. Sad to say, a progressive third party option is not viable at the present time.
I have to disagree. The ‘radical’ republicans are on the ‘conservative’ (fascist) path whether the ‘democrats’ are splintered or not.”

We have a point of agreement.

“The problem isn’t that the democrats are facilitating that path, the problem is that they are supporting that path. Just look at the telecommunications bill, the failure to close Guantanamo, corporate bailouts, health insurance bailout (in the form of ‘health care reform,’ continued inflated Defense budget (read corporate profit while becoming more unsafe). The list goes on.”

Elements of the Democratic Party have supported that path; the opposition to that path has come from the Democratic Left (The left wing of the Democratic Party.)

“If the democrats were opposed to the road to corporate military fascism, and failed in their attempt to stop it, that would be one thing. But how can that happen when we have a democrat as president and a democrat controlled congress. If it isn’t already evident that the democrats are supporting it, then what evidence would you need? When Bush was doing the same exact thing you didn’t need any more evidence to realize that it was unacceptable and unlawful.”

Our current policies are “unacceptable and unlawful.” Again the opposition to the “Road to military fascism,” has come from the Democratic Left, (The left of the Democratic Party.) 

“What good fascist doesn’t want a strong government that will subdue the freedoms and rights of people for the benefit of corporations? Look at the voting records of the democrats and republicans to see that.”

I suggest you look at the voting records of the Democrats and Republicans, you will see the differences. The differences will not be significant enough for you, but there are differences.

“In fact, I think that it is your actions that are splintering the progressive movement when you fail to act on your beliefs.”

I’m acting on my beliefs. I’m promoting the progressive movement, while warning of the coming supremacy of fascists.

“Waiting for a viable third party? It’s always been there. You, and others like you, were not the viable supporters. I don’t say that in a mean way, but you have to take responsibility for the lack of a viable third party if you want one. If you do take issue with what is happening in our country, and you have information and knowledge, and still chose so support the democrats, then you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.”

I do take issue with what is happening in our country, using very strong language. Don’t you agree?

Not One More (Cont.)

You continue,

“Almost everyone who is a progressive third party supporter was once supporting the democratic party, when they were young and naive. But as you mature, and cut through the empty rhetoric and look at the reality and voting record, you quickly realize that they weren’t just spouting empty words and promises, they were intentionally lying to you.”

I’ll agree that many Democrats are disingenuous, and that the rhetoric of some Democrats is a political ploy. Characterizing all Democrats as liars is, I think, extreme, and a kind of disingenuous, or immature, rhetoric.

“Clinton recently apologized and said that in regard to NAFTA he acted on misinformation. That is another bold faced lie. He knew exactly what he was doing at the time and who would benefit and who would suffer. A real apology would have been ‘I lied to the American people for the benefit of corporations, and I am sorry for the pain and suffering that it created.’”

I have no respect for Clinton; I’m just arrogant enough to say that I think Clinton was a misguided fool, and that he lacked the moral character necessary to be a good president and a true advocate for the people of America. He was (is) I believe, the quintessential Liberal Elitist, condescending in his attitude towards the American people. Your bold faced assertion that he was lying, is, I think, not provable, and possibly only Clinton himself knows if he was lying. 

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me again and again, call me a democrat.

I prefer to be called a progressive, or better yet a Democratic Socialist.

In conclusion I’ll state my belief that the U.S. has always been plagued with social justice problems, but that an even more sinister entity; a U.S. form of fascism reared its ugly head in the fifties, and became prevalent after the assassination of the Kennedys and Martin Luther King. We’re in deep trouble, and we will need to be wise and intelligent to find our way out of this morass. I don’t believe an emotional and self destructive response to our current difficulties will be wise or intelligent.

I don’t claim to be all knowing, I’m only stating my belief that we need to make sure the most fascist elements of our society don’t regain political power in this country. The question of political viability is important. A tainted Democratic Party is, I believe, more viable in achieving our mutual goals than a non viable Third Party, or a Party dominated by fools, racists, and proto-fascist corporate sycophants whose failed ideology takes precedence over the welfare of the American people and the people of the world.

Gerard,  I don’t know where all the young ones are,

but I don know where my soon to be 25 year old son is
with the present political scene in America.
He was always somewhat energized, and very supportive
of Obama, and because of this I said very little
negitive about Obama during the campaign.

Today, do not utter one word about America or it’s
politics.  That goes with all current events including
the oil spill…..
That is where the Obama presidency took him and many of
his friends.

My question:  the late teens/early twenties.  Where are they, politically?

That is why you can’t have any rational discussion or
debate with any of you Democrats.
  You all a bare faced liers just like Obama, Reid,
  Pelosi, Grayson, Kucinach, Conyers and the rest.

All you that voted for Obama didn’t really want any
change, new you weren’t going to get any.
  Just wanted “feel good”.

  Obama was your “feel good” vote…for you conservatives.

The Democrats raise the buget for the MIC,
  expand the wars, and begs for all sorts of
  supplementals,,,, and thats the way your sleezy
  Democrats are trying to end wars.  Nice try JD,
  go back and talk that crap to someone that doesn’t
  know better.
  Maybe you can sell them that Lesser that Evil Doctrine
  that has been proven time and time again not to exist.

That is why I laugh when you throw civil rights up for
a reason to vote dimocrat.  You all could care less,
you are a sleezy murderer enabler

And that is because you are a conservative,,
that simple…that is why you will stay voting Dem…
you really don’t want change., just the do-godder
rhetoric.  Of course you reject any idea or solution to
these wars abroad, and slums at home.
  80 - 13 really shows the Dems are trying to stop
their murdering ways.
  You are a conservative….much more devious and
damaging to this republic than any republican.

Ofersince72

You say,

“JD , all I want, is help reforming the Democrat Party
, it can’t be reformed from within..it is impossible.

The only ,and quickest way is to quit voting for them
for anything…. it will only take about two election
cycles, maybe just one….”

We come to the crux of the matter. The solution you offer is one that I’ve considered and rejected. I’ve rejected it for several reasons.

Number one would be the damage done, in terms of lives destroyed and further squandering of resources because of our foreign policy actions if the Republicans again achieve a position of control in our government. I believe the Democrats are more concerned with ending our foreign entanglements, while the Republicans will be more inclined to escalate. Republicans are not likely to recognize the futility of our military endeavors, for ideological reasons. Republicans are not likely to concede that their policies have been a tragic failure. Admittedly, the divide between Democrats and Republicans on this issue is not a great one, but nearly all the opposition to the wars is coming from the Democratic Left. Coming events could increase the numbers of Democrats in opposition to the wars, while the same events would, I believe, cause Republicans to escalate.

It’s possible that 4 years of Republican leadership would move the Democratic Party to a leftward (Progressive) reform, but history suggests that the opposite would be the reality. Supposing the Democratic Party did move to the left, would that guarantee a return of power to the Democrats? I believe that what you suggest would be extremely risky, and could have disastrous consequences.

Are you ready for four – or more – years of Republican foreign policy, domestic, and economic policy? Recognizing that our nation has serious economic problems, and recognizing the methods used by Multi-National Financiers to deal with debt, we can expect Austerity Measures from the Republicans. Austerity Measures that will further shrink the middle class, increase hardship for the poor, while further concentrating the wealth in the hands of the richest Americans. We need to expand markets and tax revenues by creating jobs. Do you believe the Republicans will be inclined to fund federal jobs programs? Will the Republicans be inclined to start long term programs designed to protect our environment, while decreasing our dependence on fossil fuels, and creating jobs? No, the Republicans will push for deregulation, tax cuts for the richest Americans, and reform of Social Security, Medicare, and reduced payments to the states for Medicaid, (Read cuts in benefits for all three programs.) In short, the Republicans will give us more of their failed ideology.

Are you ready for four – or more – years of continuing death and destruction, with no hope of change in policy?

Let us endeavor to reform our political system, without relinquishing power to the most fascistic elements within our society.

JD writes: My initial post on this subject was to point out that many on the left are facilitating the rise to power of proto-fascists, but the discussion quickly morphed into a discussion of the viability of third party politics. Sad to say, a progressive third party option is not viable at the present time.

I have to disagree. The ‘radical’ republicans are on the ‘conservative’ (fascist) path whether the ‘democrats’ are splintered or not.

The problem isn’t that the democrats are facilitating that path, the problem is that they are supporting that path. Just look at the telecommunications bill, the failure to close Guantanamo, corporate bailouts, health insurance bailout (in the form of ‘health care reform,’ continued inflated Defense budget (read corporate profit while becoming more unsafe). The list goes on.

If the democrats were opposed to the road to corporate military fascism, and failed in their attempt to stop it, that would be one thing. But how can that happen when we have a democrat as president and a democrat controlled congress. If it isn’t already evident that the democrats are supporting it, then what evidence would you need? When Bush was doing the same exact thing you didn’t need any more evidence to realize that it was unacceptable and unlawful.

What good fascist doesn’t want a strong government that will subdue the freedoms and rights of people for the benefit of corporations? Look at the voting records of the democrats and republicans to see that.

In fact, I think that it is your actions that are splintering the progressive movement when you fail to act on your beliefs.

Waiting for a viable third party? It’s always been there. You, and others like you, were not the viable supporters. I don’t say that in a mean way, but you have to take responsibility for the lack of a viable third party if you want one. If you do take issue with what is happening in our country, and you have information and knowledge, and still chose so support the democrats, then you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Almost everyone who is a progressive third party supporter was once supporting the democratic party, when they were young and naive. But as you mature, and cut through the empty rhetoric and look at the reality and voting record, you quickly realize that they weren’t just spouting empty words and promises, they were intentionally lying to you.

Clinton recently apologized and said that in regard to NAFTA he acted on misinformation. That is another bold faced lie. He knew exactly what he was doing at the time and who would benefit and who would suffer. A real apology would have been ‘I lied to the American people for the benefit of corporations, and I am sorry for the pain and suffering that it created.’

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me again and again, call me a democrat.

That is all Cynthia McKinney and Ralph Nader are
asking, that is really all goal is , reform the
Democrat Party. They know they don’t have a snowballs
chance, but they do know the power of the third party
to influence.

  They both were long time members of the Democrat Party
that got pushed aside because of their progressive
agendas….....

JD , all I want, is help reforming the Democrat Party
, it can’t be reformed from within..it is impossible.

The only ,and quickest way is to quit voting for them
for anything…. it will only take about two election
cycles, maybe just one….

a lot more realistic than to believe it can be reformed
by voting for them…believing you can break their
frawdulent primary system.

Ofersince72

With the exception of your claim that Democrats did nothing to combat racism, I agree with your criticisms of the Democratic Party, but you have not addressed my primary concern.

Gerard

Whether criticisms come from Republicans, Marxists, Radicals, Leftists, Centrists, Libertarians, Anarchists, Apolitical Government Haters, or The Techi-Generation, aren’t the results the same?

I would be willing to address you question, if I had a better understanding of what you are asking. I’ll concede that there is much hatred of government at the present time, the right, who oppose democratic government, have been very effective at discrediting government, with the help of many from the left. Is History repeating?

I’d like to make Corporatism so small that it could be, “Drowned in a bathtub,” and then flushed down the drain, but that’s not an achievable goal at the present time.

Sorry about the vowels.  They are gadgets that are useful at times.

Garth

Thanks for keeping an open mind. We truly are in a dilemma, aren’t we? I’ll suggest that prolonged, rational - Not self-defeating - struggle against reactionaries is the only option available to progressives.

That Civil Rights thing that all you Democrat enablers
keep bringing up, guess what…..??

All those blacks in prison, and living in squallers down
the getto…..don’t give a rat’s ass about your do
  gooder rhetoric towards them !!!!!!!!!!
They know it for what it is, a bunch talk from a bunch
that likes to talk do gooder this and do gooder that
but really don’t do anything to help their position.

In 1988, I called my Senator’s office (Sarbanes)
I wanted him to commit which way his “superdelegate”
vote was going to go at the convention (another comical
undemocratic ploy of the party), is was trying to talk
him into Jackson…
Anyway , his chief of staff answered the phone, it was
someone that I went to school with from the 1st to the
12th grade and knew very well.

  This person said “well, Sarbanes and Dukakis were
  room mates at Harvard together so of course he is
  going to go with Dukakis.”
I chuckeled, was polite, we had a little small talk and
I hung up disgusted.

After they sat on their thumbs for over a year,

and then the Supreme Court made their Citizens United
decision…..

only then did S. Brown come up with one these lame petition drives.

The very first thing the Democrats should have done
when they had a filibuster proof Senate was to pass
some campaign finance reform and some primary election
reform.

They knew damn well what was on the Supreme Court
docket and which way the court was going to rule,
they could have beat them to the punch….

I just wonder why they didn’t , don’t you ??????????

In the Nader 2004 run that the Democrats illegally
tied the campaign up in court long enough to keep him
off the ballots in many states..

In some of these jurisdictions, the Democrats took money
from Republicans to help finance their illegal lawsuits.
They were in bed together on this.

The Democrat Party would rather see a Republican as
president than a true liberal.

JDMysticD: Thanks for the previous summary.

I can believe a strong third party could be formed given a lot of ifs…

One essential is hard for me to evaluate as I’m so far from it these days—the late teens/early twenties.  Where are they, politically?  If you judge from the “techie generation” (whoevere they are?) they are mostly into prsnl cncrns (who needs vowels?) and gdgts.

I would appreciate you or someone addressing this question specifically.

JDMysticDJ’s words, “The last decade has provided a near perfect storm of evidence which condemns the philosophy of reactionary forces,..” Are absolutely true. 

The problem is that this truth is not promulgated nor is it reflected in the media.  That point is essential.  What the Republicans propose and what they stand behind doesn’t work.  It’s as plain and simple as that.

In the 60s, as a young man, I listened to the arguments of the Conservative wing of the Republican Party under Goldwater, a shirt salesman from Arizona, and thought, it all sounds straightforward and easy to digest.  What if they had their way?  How would things work out?  Well, I found out.

About 40 years have gone by and the Conservative Right-wing did get their way and now look at the mess we are in.

In some respects, depending on the honesty of the elections, the Democrats might not lose big in 2012.  A Portuguese immigrant who lived next door and voted for Bush in 2000 and 2004 stopped me on the street in 2005 and said in broken English, “This Bush is no good.”  I felt like saying, “Where have you been?”  But I gladly agreed. 

Now, though, I see the problem is not Bush.  It is not Obama. 

These two are merely point men for a crumbling neo-Liberalism that, as Oliver Stone and Tariq Ali pointed out today on DemocracyNow!: the South American Democracies saw it all 15 years ago.  The same game had been played on them.

This time with the US, us, they are seeing it twice.

The Rainbow Co worked within the Democrat Party…
JD…that is where it screwed up.

Well JD, if the Democrat Party hadn’t illegally tied
them up in court to keep them off ballots, I am sure
the results would have been different, however you like
to feed off of mainstream thought, that is because you
are really a conservative, otherwise you wouldn’t cast
your vote for a democrat.

  Jesse Jackson , you are right, sold out, probably
to help enhance his son’s career as a war monger.
Since I helped register voters for Jackson in 84&88;,
and beat the concrete in my off hours every chance I got
yes , I am very disappointed in Jackson not splitting from
the Democrat Party after the way they screwed him around.

My initial post on this subject was to point out that many on the left are facilitating the rise to power of proto-fascists, but the discussion quickly morphed into a discussion of the viability of third party politics. Sad to say, a progressive third party option is not viable at the present time.

It strikes me as odd, that some on this thread attack the potential leaders of a progressive third party option, or ferform of the Democratic Party, and equate them with the right. For example, Kucinich and others, fought down to the wire, to make the Health Care Reform Bill better, but rationally accepted minor improvements, rather than no improvements at all. Those who fought to improve the Health Care Bill are now condemned as being traitors by some. Kucinich alienated himself from main stream politics, and he fought courageously and with passion to improve the Bill.

The comment was made that voting for a non viable party strengthens that party; I believe the opposite is true. Where is the Rainbow Coalition now, anyone remember the Reform Party? Nader received 3% of the popular vote in 2000; he received less than 1% in 2004, and 2008. The Greens once considered a potential option are, unfortunately, no longer relevant.

Again, I’ll argue for struggle to reform the Democratic Party, or to create a viable progressive third party.

Again, I’ll state my belief that many on the left are facilitating the right by criticizing the left, and irrationally claiming that there is no difference between Democrats and Republicans.

Again, I’ll state my belief that the U.S. is currently governed by Corporate Fascism, and that U.S. Militarism has had horrendous consequences for the U.S. and the world.

Again, I’ll argue that the struggle to end this madness should not include facilitating the most avid proponents of this madness.

Again, I’ll argue that the struggle, though seemingly hopeless, should not be effectively abandoned, and that the propensity for negativism, defeatism, and nihilism expressed by many is counter productive and serves to advance the cause of their proclaimed enemies. The last decade has provided a near perfect storm of evidence which condemns the philosophy of reactionary forces, but the left is confronting a monolithic leviathan of reactionary opposition, and is so ideologically factionalized and chaotic, that taking advantage of these evidences is failing. Our country moved to the left in 2008, but is now moving again toward the right. Criticisms of the left, by leftists and radicals; facilitates that rightward shift. Rational arguments in favor of change are constructive. Pointing out the failed policies of the right is constructive. Counter productive criticisms of the left are destructive.

Using historical examples, I’ve tried to point out that the struggle for social justice has been a long and arduous one, and painfully slow at times. The advances in social justice were difficult to obtain, and were beset by attacks, and setbacks, from reactionary forces.

Clearly, the ideals of democracy have been subverted. We must work to restore those ideals, not give up the fight, and effectively surrender to proto-fascists, thereby continuing the madness, not obstructing it.

How many remember Barara Lee, Democratic Representive from California?

She’s only one who voted against the invasion of Iraq in 2003.

Somehow, we let the real heroins slip through our grasp.

Ofersince72

That’s the kind comments this blog needs.  I didn’t know Grayson said that.

Please, cancel your cancellation.

80 - 13   Senate pro war…........

tell me how you are going to overcome that in twenty years
??????????
I can name four of the thirteen that would have voted
the other way had not their vote been safe.. Chuck Shumer
being one of them.

  356 - 65….......same thing, tell me how you are going
to change those numbers within twenty years…
and same thing…half of the sixty five would have voted
the other way had their vote not been safe….

Under Obama’s Democrats things are not changing for the better.

DemocracyNow! reported today that the Democrats voted down a part of the “Regulate Wall Street” bill that would allow shareholders a say in what CEOs received for compensation. 

The shareholder own the company, right?  If I hire someone to do a job, I should be able to come to some “Free Market” agreement on what the the job is worth and what the person doing the job is willing to accept.  Shouldn’t I?  Or is this exemption part of the new Free Market I missed?

This whole idea of pay, pay, pay that CEO began in the Harvard Business School.  What it has spun out-of-control into is: Any bum’ll do.

Just good hype and lot’s of promises up front are the PR.  Then, like a good pyramid scheme, who gives a shit what happens afterwards?  The IPO fathers made theirs.

So, when the Board of Directors elect a Sluggo to head up the company, all you can say as a shareholder is, “I’ll take my cash and go elsewhere.”

Do think these freeloaders will get it?

That is the real reason why you and a few others don’t
want me on these threads….....

I can bust that democrat bubble from now until the cows
come home…..it is easy, their boat don’t float,
their ballon don’t hold water….