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99 Percenters Occupy Wall Street

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Posted on Sep 20, 2011
AP / John Minchillo

By Amy Goodman

If 2,000 tea party activists descended on Wall Street, you would probably have an equal number of reporters there covering them. Yet 2,000 people did occupy Wall Street on Saturday. They weren’t carrying the banner of the tea party, the Gadsden flag with its coiled snake and the threat “Don’t Tread on Me.” Yet their message was clear: “We are the 99 percent that will no longer tolerate the greed and corruption of the 1 percent.” They were there, mostly young, protesting the virtually unregulated speculation of Wall Street that caused the global financial meltdown.

One of New York’s better-known billionaires, Mayor Michael Bloomberg, commented on the protests: “You have a lot of kids graduating college, can’t find jobs. That’s what happened in Cairo. That’s what happened in Madrid. You don’t want those kinds of riots here.” Riots? Is that really what the Arab Spring and the European protests are about?

Perhaps to the chagrin of Mayor Bloomberg, that is exactly what inspired many who occupied Wall Street. In its most recent communique, the Wall Street protest umbrella group said: “On Saturday we held a general assembly, two thousand strong. ... By 8 p.m. on Monday we still held the plaza, despite constant police presence. ... We are building the world that we want to see, based on human need and sustainability, not corporate greed.”

Speaking of the tea party, Texas Gov. Rick Perry has caused a continuous fracas in the Republican presidential debates with his declaration that the U.S.’ revered Social Security system is a “Ponzi scheme.” Charles Ponzi was the con artist who swindled thousands in 1920 with a fraudulent promise for high returns on investments. A typical Ponzi scheme involves taking money from investors, then paying them off with money taken from new investors, rather than paying them from actual earnings. Social Security is actually solvent, with a trust fund of more than $2.6 trillion. The real Ponzi scheme threatening the U.S. public is the voracious greed of Wall Street banks.

I interviewed one of the “Occupy Wall Street” protest organizers. David Graeber teaches at Goldsmiths, University of London, and has authored several books, most recently “Debt: The First 5,000 Years.” Graeber points out that, in the midst of the financial crash of 2008, enormous debts between banks were renegotiated. Yet only a fraction of troubled mortgages have gotten the same treatment. He said: “Debts between the very wealthy or between governments can always be renegotiated and always have been throughout world history. ... It’s when you have debts owed by the poor to the rich that suddenly debts become a sacred obligation, more important than anything else. The idea of renegotiating them becomes unthinkable.”

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President Barack Obama has proposed a jobs plan and further efforts to reduce the deficit. One is a so-called millionaire’s tax, endorsed by billionaire Obama supporter Warren Buffett. The Republicans call the proposed tax “class warfare.” Graeber commented: “For the last 30 years we’ve seen a political battle being waged by the super-rich against everyone else, and this is the latest move in the shadow dance, which is completely dysfunctional economically and politically. It’s the reason why young people have just abandoned any thought of appealing to politicians. We all know what’s going to happen. The tax proposals are a sort of mock populist gesture, which everyone knows will be shot down. What will actually probably happen would be more cuts to social services.”

Outside in the cold Tuesday morning, the demonstrators continued their fourth day of the protest with a march amidst a heavy police presence and the ringing of an opening bell at 9:30 a.m. for a “people’s exchange,” just as the opening bell of the New York Stock Exchange is rung. While the bankers remained secure in their bailed-out banks, outside, the police began arresting protesters. In a just world, with a just economy, we have to wonder, who would be out in the cold? Who would be getting arrested?

Denis Moynihan contributed research to this column.

Amy Goodman is the host of “Democracy Now!,” a daily international TV/radio news hour airing on more than 900 stations in North America. She is the author of “Breaking the Sound Barrier,” recently released in paperback and now a New York Times best-seller.

© 2011 Amy Goodman

Distributed by King Features Syndicate


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By barry bird, February 1, 2012 at 12:06 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I must admit I am angry.  Corporations and banks are hoarding cash, crone capitalism and it’s first cousin, crone politics (both parties trade political favors, “That’s the way things get done around here”).  They take money, big money, out of the top and pass the crumbs that are left to passify just enough of the dumb masses to stay in power.  It doesn’t much matter if it is established republicans or established democrats they’re gonna take care of themselves,  call it working hard, cause they made it all legal.  I declare a pox on both sides of the “aisle”. 

Can we throw the bums out and get some real change so we can have some real hope?  I want to have a chance at the American dream.  We are starting a new grass roots movement.  Look for our new web-site.  Coming soon.  Any ideas, real ideas or suggestions, real suggestions??

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By bodhidharma, November 28, 2011 at 11:42 am Link to this comment

—-Listen, bodhidharma. Either we are all free and we all have our own thoughts and motivations…  or none of us do. Please keep that ‘either/or’ in mind as you read my posts.

It is not fair that Leftists can enjoy such noble motivations and such free will which validates direct action, yet their Leftist doctrine assigns no noble motivation to the right(instead it is ‘fascism’) and no free will to us(instead we are ‘easily led’) and thus no action of ours is valid.  The Left arrives at those conclusions via harsh critical analysis of conservatism while it exempts itself from that same harsh analysis.—-
Of course, OM, everyone has and is responsible for their own thoughts and motivations.  You have never heard me say otherwise.  And do not lump me with the left.  While I certainly agree more fully with the sentiments I see expressed by those who identify with the left, I think swallowing wholesale any ideology created by others is lazy and dangerous. Unfortunately people think for themselves far too little.  You can’t get down to really basic things as long as you are trapped in the ideas of the past.
Also, the Koch brothers ARE the controllers of the Tea Party.  They finance it. They finance the politicians and lobbyists who run it. It is their creation.  That they created it as a way of taking advantage of a feeling of outrage at the bank bailouts changes nothing. They still control it’s policies as surely as corporations control the policies of ALEC.

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By Anarcissie, November 28, 2011 at 10:03 am Link to this comment

Ozark Michael—If something looks like a fantasy to me, I’m going to say so. 

As for the playwright, I assume you’re referring to http://www.truthdig.com/arts_culture/item/the_cons_on_david_mamet_20110818/#421919 and its predecessors; I didn’t say Mamet lacked agency, I said he lacked analysis.  I derived this opinion from the excerpt of his views given, which was a hodgepodge of old clichés.  Indulging in that sort of exercise is his choice.  It may have been encouraged by his environment; those who don’t think about things are more likely to absorb perceptions and prejudices uncritically than those who do.  It’s still a choice.

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By OzarkMichael, November 28, 2011 at 9:36 am Link to this comment

It is very cruel of you to accuse me of living in a fantasy world for noticing your repeated insults.

You the one who constantly references the Koch brothers as the ‘controllers’ of the Tea Party. Do I need to hunt down the dozen or times you said it?

Furthermore, Anarcissie, a person(a playwright i think) who was once a Leftist, but who changed his mind and wrote a book with a conservative view, your explanation of the book was a prejudiced dismissal… that he lacked perception, intelligence, and agency… you claimed that he only wrote the book because of hidden psychological/social influences of which he was not aware.

We argued about your very prejudiced point of view, and you did not modify your position on the matter. So yes you remain rather constant with your prejudice.

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By Anarcissie, November 28, 2011 at 8:58 am Link to this comment

Ozark Michael—I can’t figure out what you’re complaining about here.  As far as I’m concerned, everyone is free to define themselves, and equally free to criticize others’ (or their own) self-definitions.  One thing I sometimes criticize is indulgence in fantasies.  For example:


A: By your own reasoning, then, rightists are indeed pawns, because that is how you interpret the actions and thoughts of others.

OM: It is funny that you speak as if i arrived at that conclusion myself, when we both know that you consistantly propound that judgement.

Where do I consistently, or even intermittently, propound the judgement that rightists are pawns, that is, beings who lack perception, intelligence, and agency?

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By Leefeller, November 27, 2011 at 11:17 am Link to this comment

The system is corrupt and broken it is a stacked deck deck a constant rearranging of the chairs, for the few while the rest, the 99 percent loose.  This is called disenfranchisement where money is speech and corporations are people, what of the real people, the ones who die in the battle field or go to those new privatized prisons?  Ignore it if you can, wear blinders keep thy head where the sun don’t shine or try to cover it with hubris, it is still disenfranchisement, inequality, a tricked down of injustice and unfairness sponsored by the few, the 1 percent, always manipulated to control the 99 percent.  Only if they where kings and queens?

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By OzarkMichael, November 27, 2011 at 10:51 am Link to this comment

Anarcissie said:

The opposite of ‘spontaneous’ is ‘planned’, not ‘organized’.

In regard to which, I previously published the URL of David Graeber’s account of his participation in the genesis of OWS, which was planning of a sort, so I don’t know where this ‘spontaneous’ thing you’re on about is coming from


Graeber’s self-definition is interesting, but if you will pardon me, I have learned to dismiss self-definition thanks to the critical analysis performed here at Truthdig by such as yourself, Anarcissie.

You do not give conservatives a blank cheque to self define. Not only that, but self-definition done by conservatives is viewed as ignorance of inner motivation at best, or proof of nafarious secret goals at worst. Self-definition is viewed by Leftists as propaganda, a brainwashed mode of thinking, cover for something evil, and thus it is simply dismissed. Self-definition is, in itself, a form of self delusion.

Knowing this, I am not sure why Leftists think it is their birthright to engage in self-definition without the same suspicion, or why Leftists must be dragged kicking and screaming to taste one drop of the water which they insist I imbibe a full glass of daily. 

Now, concerning ‘spontaneity’, there is perhaps a mistake i made. Allow me to explain. Lets begin with Nancy Pelosi(a powerful goverment person, Speaker of the House at the time) attacking the Tea Party as not spontaneous, as ‘astroturf’ and highlighting its Nazi ‘tendencies’:

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=you+tube+nancy+pelosi+astroturf&mid=98E5E47A8BF689ECC5B498E5E47A8BF689ECC5B4&view=detail&FORM=VIRE1

Now here she is again, but this time she is so pleased and supportive of Occupy Wall Street, which she praises for being “spontaneous” with such intensity that she says “God bless them for their spontaneity!” (I thought you knew of this, so i didnt mention it earlier. I was arguing against something that you didnt know about. My apologies.) Watch her emphatic body language which demonstrates her sincerity:

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=you+tube+nancy+pelosi+Occupy+wall+street&view=detail&mid=8787B31B9D05B9EE9D938787B31B9D05B9EE9D93&first=0&FORM=LKVR4

I remember how you said earlier that the powers-that-be supported the Tea Party, but were against poor Occupy Wall Street. Not so, as we can see with Speaker Pelosi. As a bonus lets check with Harry Reid(Senate Majority Leader, a powerful person). He called the Tea Party “radical extremists”. The media, which you claim backs the Tea Party, said the following:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5PRLuRNZB0&feature=related

The White House is in on this too. Obama prefers that the accusation of waste and robbery of trillions of dollars be directed at Wall Street instead of himself. OWS is coincidentally the very thing Obama needed to gain a chance of being re-elected.

Do you believe such a major deflection of blame at just the right time is merely a coincidence?

Where is that hard-headed Anarcissie, so ready to ignore self-definition in order to spot who really benefits? wh was so ready to dismiss a movement’s stated principles in order to trace the base source of the political movement?

Well, it isnt completely fair that I place all this on you, Anarcissie. You are the best of the bunch here. While your fellow travellers(Leftists here including several Communists)and fellow Occupiers are completely unable to evaluate the Occupy process, you at least try to do so.

I wonder if you are aware of what mass inability to engage in self examination means for the movement if it succeeds. Frankly, the prospect of such unthinking, unaware people successfully demanding things is not good. Democracy cannot be strengthened by that.

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By Leefeller, November 27, 2011 at 9:42 am Link to this comment

This article by Amy Goodman written just as Occupy evolved as an entity in itself only several months ago speaks volumes to its success in a very short time.

Disenfranchisement and inequality the corrupt system with its blatant unfairness and injustice has been exposed to more people than ever before.  From the wars paid for by and on the backs of the people to the bail outs by the few paid for by the many, more people are aware of many things they never were conscious of before. People as the 99 percent relate and no longer take for granted what in the past was considered as normal.  Now more people realize they have been duped not by osmosis, but a coordinated effort directed at them by the few,... the 1 percent. The over reaching done in the Red States may have been the original formulation for Occupy? This blatant disregard and insult towards the 99 percent is now exposed. 

What people do with this and haw they will react remains to be seen, Occupy may only be the tip of the iceberg. Something new a bit of fresh air instead of the usual hot air.

Some choose to ignore others choose to play dumb, (we see a lot of playing dumb)  but this is to be expected from those who benefit and find the comfort in the pacifier called status quo.

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By Anarcissie, November 27, 2011 at 9:32 am Link to this comment

You’re telling us that you’re promoting a theory in which you yourself do not believe?  So who am I talking to here?

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By OzarkMichael, November 27, 2011 at 8:00 am Link to this comment

By your own reasoning, then, rightists are indeed pawns, because that is how you interpret the actions and thoughts of others.

It is funny that you speak as if i arrived at that conclusion myself, when we both know that you consistantly propound that judgement.

I provisionally accept the Leftist critical analysis only because there is no way to avoid it when i discuss things with Leftists.

Havent you noticed that you never apply the same standard to yourself? Why do you exempt yourself from a mode of criticism that you use on most citizens in the country?

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By Anarcissie, November 27, 2011 at 7:27 am Link to this comment

OzarkMichael, November 26 at 9:51 pm:

’ “OzarkMicheal, these people you call pawns are human beings with free wills and their own thoughts and motivations for what they are doing.”

Listen, bodhidharma. Either we are all free and we all have our own thoughts and motivations…  or none of us do. Please keep that ‘either/or’ in mind as you read my posts.

It is not fair that Leftists can enjoy such noble motivations and such free will which validates direct action, yet their Leftist doctrine assigns no noble motivation to the right(instead it is ‘fascism’) and no free will to us(instead we are ‘easily led’) and thus no action of ours is valid.  The Left arrives at those conclusions via harsh critical analysis of conservatism while it exempts itself from that same harsh analysis. ...’

By your own reasoning, then, rightists are indeed pawns, because that is how you interpret the actions and thoughts of others.

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By Litl Bludot, November 27, 2011 at 2:24 am Link to this comment

I would advise no one to reply to OzarkM. The writer, I hestitate to give a pronoun,
as that would imply some sense of humanity, has the intellectual dishonesty to
watch as people are being tortured and or exterminated and say that they were
“free”.

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By OzarkMichael, November 26, 2011 at 10:51 pm Link to this comment

OzarkMicheal, these people you call pawns are human beings with free wills and their own thoughts and motivations for what they are doing.

Listen, bodhidharma. Either we are all free and we all have our own thoughts and motivations…  or none of us do. Please keep that ‘either/or’ in mind as you read my posts.

It is not fair that Leftists can enjoy such noble motivations and such free will which validates direct action, yet their Leftist doctrine assigns no noble motivation to the right(instead it is ‘fascism’) and no free will to us(instead we are ‘easily led’) and thus no action of ours is valid.  The Left arrives at those conclusions via harsh critical analysis of conservatism while it exempts itself from that same harsh analysis.

That imbalance, which i call a double standard, colors every discussion of every issue. That hidden accusation and denigration against me, while the hidden reserve of noble motivation and right to act with absolute freedom is kept for yourself, makes for a poor foundation for a discussion. (When the Left comes to power, that poor foundation could influence laws, especially if we consider how power tends to make people a bit meaner than they are now. Moreso if we consider that some of Leftists here are pretty mean already, and such people tend to come out on top during Leftist revolutions.)

The double standard is so lopsided and so deeply imbedded that nothing good can come of discussion of lofty issues, it will only collapse to accusations of fascism and denial of my validity to act in freedom. At best it leads to constant misunderstanding.

So i dont discuss issues here, it is always about process. It is impossible to attain dialectic and lofty concepts under such conditions. Until we come to equal terms it cant happen.

The Left is unable/unwilling to use its own analytical methods on its own, such as the Occupy Movement. I insist that the same method of analysis that was used against the Tea Party be used against the Occupiers. Anything less than that is inhuman.

I write original analysis here on Truthdig and I think it has been effective. The conversations here have taken OWS down a peg or two.  Anarcissie is the only person who stands up and tries to defend OWS against my analysis. Other than that, the OWS supporters were too hateful or too oriented towards violence to discuss the process.

I understand how difficult it is for Leftists, even Anarcissie, to let go of the tremendous advantage that their double standard gives them. I have a long way to go to make that happen. Two ways to succeed: either the Leftists will stop applying their critical method to conservatives, or the Leftists will learn to also apply their critical method to themselves. That consistancy, one way or the other, will put us all on equal footing. Then we can talk issues, commonalities, working together, etc.

Either we are all free and we all have our own thoughts and motivations…  or none of us do. i absolutely insist on that and it may turn potential allies into enemies, but i have no choice.

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By bodhidharma, November 26, 2011 at 9:18 pm Link to this comment

OzarkMicheal, these people you call pawns are human beings with free wills and their own thoughts and motivations for what they are doing. They have not been tricked by anyone into anything, and understand what they are doing and why. The ones I know from the local occupy movement in Cincinnati are some of the brightest and most motivated people I know, and are also involved in the keystone pipeline protests and 350.org, where I first met them.  They are certainly not anyone’s pawns, and just because someone suggests an idea and others think it is good enough to act on does not make the former some sort of manipulator and the latter unsuspecting fools. The ideas and tactics of the occupy movement are decades old, and not anything new that some secret cabal has come up with.  If you study the ‘Bonus’ protest and encampment in 1932, you will find basically the same thing. Wall Street just served as a potent symbol to rally against today, so it caught on and allowed people to express what had come to a boiling point in society. What your problem is with a movement that has galvanized the left and the disenfranchised, and changed the political discussion away from the debt to corporate abuse of power and job creation, that I find difficult to understand.

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By OzarkMichael, November 26, 2011 at 8:53 pm Link to this comment

I am glad you find it interesting. I think it is very important to expose the underside of political movements. The only people allowed to do this apparently are Leftists themselves. Fortunately for me, Jon Stewart stepped up, so please watch the whole thing:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-november-16-2011/occupy-wall-street-divided

When the interviewer says, “Holy Sh*t!” i was saying the same thing. Wow! The rich white college kids decided policy for everyone else in special meetings at a swanky lobby on 60 Wall Street. Thats the DeutschBank Building, if you didnt know.

Anarcissie, were you down there? Why didnt you tell aboout this cozy but ironic arrangement? More importantly, who appointed those rich white kids to run things for OWS?

It doesnt sound like they were elected to their posts. One of the non leadership kids (at OWS from day one) simply reports that ‘they’ run things. My question: how was that decided? when? There is a hidden organization to all this which i find fascinating.

Anarcissie, you have the power, as always, to completely disregard my observations and reduce my questions to irrelevancy. How? Well, you have done it before… all you have to do is claim that the “OWS folks” sipping lattes in that bank lobby are actually agents provocateurs who are trying to make OWS look bad.

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By Anarcissie, November 26, 2011 at 7:20 pm Link to this comment

The opposite of ‘spontaneous’ is ‘planned’, not ‘organized’.

In regard to which, I previously published the URL of David Graeber’s account of his participation in the genesis of OWS, which was planning of a sort, so I don’t know where this ‘spontaneous’ thing you’re on about is coming from.  Don’t get me wrong, though; the ongoing composition of the narrative is quite interesting.

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By OzarkMichael, November 26, 2011 at 6:34 pm Link to this comment

“We may be using the word ‘organized’ in different ways.”

I was using it as the antonym of ‘spontaneous’.

Did you know, Anarcissie, that the central committee of OWS was meeting in the lobby of a huge bank? No poor folk represented, it was only the upper class college types allowed. Jon Stewart captured the irony with a hilarious report done about 2 weeks ago

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By Anarcissie, November 26, 2011 at 5:28 pm Link to this comment

We may be using the word ‘organized’ in different ways.

Anyway, your buddy iMax has published a list of ‘wealthy’ plotters in a parallel discussion somewhere on Truthdig—a veritable Politburo.  I will watch the development of this narrative with interest.

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By OzarkMichael, November 26, 2011 at 2:56 pm Link to this comment

Anarcissie, for many days you denied that occupy Wall Street was organized by anyone. You agreed with Nancy Pelosi who marvelled at the pure spontaneity of Occupy Wall Street.

You are now admitting that Steve Lerner had a role in organizing OWS. Thats a start.

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By Anarcissie, October 5, 2011 at 12:47 pm Link to this comment

Ozark Michael—I believe Steve Lerner went around opining that people ought to organize strikes and protests against banks and other such institutions, which he feels have too much power and too much influence on the government.  This isn’t manipulation; it’s normal, straightforward political discourse.  It’s what he believes in, and what many of the people who listened to him believe in, more or less.  Public protests are also normal political discourse.  That’s why the right to assemble to petition the government for redress of grievances is written into the Constitution.  I don’t understand your problem with it.

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By OzarkMichael, October 4, 2011 at 9:05 pm Link to this comment

Ah, so Steve Lerner never went to those universities to recruit the Pawns? You just want to ignore that fact?

Because when you walk in amongst Pawns they are so agreeable and you are so hopeful for them that your emotions rule the day. Facts melt away and faith is your portion. You are now a True Believer of the first order.

Lets find a way to sweep it all under the rug then. Steve Lerner must have been recruiting and agitating for a different Day of Rage. Probably Sept 17 of next year. yeah thats it!

And those videos… all the folks there were actors and not real Occupiers. Sure, now it all fits.

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By Anarcissie, October 4, 2011 at 7:59 pm Link to this comment

Ozark Michael—I’ve been down there, and if it was organized in the sense you seem to intend, they disorganized it real quick when they saw me coming and then reorganized it later when I left.  However, I’ve been staying away lately, since I don’t like being around celebrities or the boss media.  Mostly I don’t like the way people react to them, rather than the celebrities and the media themselves.  I think the rest of us should emulate Diogenes when he was visited by Alexander the Great.

I will go there tomorrow, probably, and see what’s going on.  Looks like quite to-do shaping up.

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By OzarkMichael, October 4, 2011 at 9:00 am Link to this comment

First the Left demands special coverage for a small number of people and got upset that it wasnt provided by boss media. Later, when the news coverage arrives but isnt the most positive kind, that also meets with your disapproval. That is another unrealistic demand which shows heavy bias on your part. That bias is what your Puppetmasters count on. Amy played you like a violin.

However, the Occupation was covered by Fox News from the first day: 

http://nation.foxnews.com/protestors/2011/09/17/liberal-protesters-prepare-occupy-wall-street

As to your definition of organization, namely properly organized, it all depends on their plan for how and when each step is accomplished, doesnt it?

Dont worry, this is only the beginning of building a movement, the Organizers have all the proper Leftist goals in mind. If you were willing to look you would have found that all your ideas will be included later.

Meanwhile, the Occupation was organized by several old Liberal Elite, but performed by young Pawns. The function of Liberal Elite(as you recall) is to manipulate the masses into supporting the revolution. Hint hint.

True, the Occupation wasnt the proper mix of people. They seemed to be mostly young white affluent types, especially at the beginning. If the boss media really disliked you guys they would have announced that little truth a long time ago. They certainly made it an issue of ‘old affluent white’ for the Tea Party immediately didnt they?

The protestors have thus far refused to seek permits for anything. Permits would allow them to march down a street safely and use a PA system. They could have obtained permits, especially considering how long this thing has been planned in advance! How you can overlook that fact is beyond me.

They still can obtain permits, but to my knowledge they dont want one. That was planned for the appearance of spontaniety, which makes everything more raw, and creates more chances for confrontation with authority. How you miss this fact is stunning.

Oh, someone knew what they were doing a year ago.

It is very important that the Occupation appear ‘unorganized’, as if it was the most pure, most innocent and honest, most ‘real’ movement in our time. Didnt that appearance of ‘spontaneity’  send a thrill up your spine? Didnt the ‘democratic nature’ of it appeal to you? Didnt the ‘leaderless uprising’ give you hope?  Indeed it did. Thats the whole point. But this was planned, and the Steve Lerner tapes(among others but we wont get to that) proves it.

Are you able to see that this lack of what you call proper organization was not spontaneous, but was chosen for effect?

There is another kind of preparation besides what you call proper organization. There are other ways of being organized, highly organized. I have shown several examples already.

One more. There are some things that the Occupiers have been coached not to say. There are certain aspects of their ideology which they would turn off or frighten the masses. This too is evidence of Liberal Elite organization.

It is easy to trip up the young inexperienced Pawns, so they remind each other to not let anything slip. Also there were experienced old Liberal Elite coaching them before they arrived, and some are in the crowd, coaching now. The boss media could easily expose this coaching, but hasnt done so. But here is video:

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/oreilly/2011/10/03/jesse-watters-crashes-wall-street-protest

First at the 30 second mark watch how the old coach ‘accidently’ breaks up the interview of the young female Pawn just before the young Pawn spills the beans.

And then at 1:09 listen as two Pawns remind the other Pawn being interviewed, “Dont say it! Dont say it, bro!”

Ah, but in your eyes the Occupation is so spontaneous. How do you explain “Dont say it bro!” and how do you explain the old guy breaking up the interview? Is that innocence and honesty?

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By Leefeller, October 4, 2011 at 7:49 am Link to this comment

It will be interesting to see how the Occupy Wall Street ends up. There will always be the manipulators hovering in and around.

It seems the concept of no focused plan but a general consensus in flux is genius, for the powers that be have little to point at. Occupy is calling attention to the blatant inequities, the ever present corruption the few opposed to the many, they are speaking for the majority of the people, I see them speaking for me.

I do not know if the general cause against inequities can distance itself from the manipulators.  The Tea Party started out with good intentions, from what I understand the Nazi party started out with good intentions, but the looming fact is power struggles become part of every cause and where they end up is anyone’s guess.

If Occupy Wall Street succeeds in getting money out of politics, this would be a beautiful ground breaking start in the removal of the despicable decay so apparent now in the bought and paid for politics.

One person, one dollar, one vote!

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By Leefeller, October 4, 2011 at 7:48 am Link to this comment

It will be interesting to see how the Occupy Wall Street ends up. There will always be the manipulators hovering in and around like rats in a New York Taco Bell.

It seems the concept of no focused plan but a general consensus in flux is genius, for the powers that be have little to point at. Occupy is calling attention to the blatant inequities, the ever present corruption the few opposed to the many, they are speaking for the majority of the people, I see them speaking for me.

I do not know if the general cause against inequities can distance itself from the manipulators.  The Tea Party started out with good intentions and was hijacked by special interests, from what I understand the Nazi party in Germany started out with good intentions and the turd Hitler floated to the top. But the looming fact is power struggles become part of every cause and where they end up is anyone’s guess. They are happening around the world right now, people are suffering and pissed.

If Occupy Wall Street succeeds in getting money out of politics, this would be a beautiful ground breaking start in the removal of the despicable decay so apparent now in the bought and paid for so called leaders of partisan politics.

One person, one dollar, one vote!

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By Anarcissie, October 3, 2011 at 6:29 pm Link to this comment

If the Occupation was organized for over a year, the organizers did one of the worst jobs of organization I have ever observed in my born days.  I am not the only one who thinks this. 

I found the studied indifference of the boss media rather interesting, but I can’t say as I longed for it on behalf of the protesters.  When, after the pepper-spray incident, they began to show up, followed by the celebrities, I had a strong ‘Well, there goes the neighborhood’ feeling. 

An properly organized movement would have made sure to do three things not visible at all in the Occupation:

1.  It would have had considerably better logistics.

2.  It would reached out to organizations of the poor, the indigent, the disadvantageously pigmented, and so forth.  There are existing organizations that are capable of putting thousands of people on the street if they see some purpose in it.  This was not done, as far as I know.  Certainly no one I know heard about it until two or three days after it started.

3.  It would have created an incident or event on the first day that would get it in the mainstream media.

Elementary stuff, and not done.

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By OzarkMichael, October 3, 2011 at 4:06 pm Link to this comment

As far as ‘the Blaze’ is concerned, the tape is of Steve Lerner, the words are his. What Glenn Beck thinks or says about it is completely irrelevent to the fact that Lerner and a few others have been setting this Wall Street Occupation up for over a year.

I find your inability to recognize the fact that the Wall Street Occupation was organized to be very perplexing. We arent even going to get to the Puppetmaster or what the goal is.

You seemed so keen on spotting a Tea Party ‘preexisting organization’, and so keen on figuring out who ‘controlled’ it. Who ‘manipulates’ it.  Now when its time to apply the same unpleasant questions to the Wall Street Organizers you wont even bother to click on a link.

The evidence is right there. You could have listened to old Steve yourself. There is much more i would show you, but are you too emotionally hooked on Leftist ideology to look at the Occupation objectively?

Anarcissie said: is going to be very hard to say what it is, because now that it has broken into the mass media and become a thing, a lot of people will be coming down to see it, take pictures of it, learn from it, exploit it, sabotage it, run con games, whatever they want to do.

Ok. First you felt ignored and joined in the Amy Goodman ‘whine’ about not getting enough press.

Now you are upset that the mass media is covering it.

I have news for you. The Organizers wanted the publicity. It was planned that way from the start. Its been documented. I cant make you understand that if you dont want to. There are quite a bit more to look at, but i cannot make you look.

Fascinating how trusting you are. Isnt that how it always is? The poor Pawns dont get to know how they are being used.

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By Trent, October 3, 2011 at 7:18 am Link to this comment
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“They express a spirit of revolt without revolution.”

That’s just intellectual gobbledygook. These protests are making a difference! Wall Street is running scared and afraid. Look at their bought and paid for police arresting 700 of our people!! Because they’re scared of the message of the group! We must continue to turn out. That’s how real change works!!!It’s time for the old Wall Street Knickerbocker culture to be taken down once and for all!

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By bodhidharma, October 2, 2011 at 10:39 am Link to this comment

Over 700 protesters arrested yesterday!  The MSM can’t ignore this anymore.  Why are protesting TPers never arrested?  Even when they harass congressmen at town hall meetings?  Good to see labor unions getting involved.  The split between the New Left and labor during the sixties and early seventies meant the end of the political strength of both. When AFL_CIO supported Nixon and deserted the Democrats, they lost their clout in congress.  Now they are too weak to get it back on their own, and need to fight for survival.

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By troll, October 2, 2011 at 9:18 am Link to this comment

OzarkMichael - I will raise your concerns re
manipulation at the next message group meeting tomorrow
here at #OccupyBurque

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By bodhidharma, October 2, 2011 at 12:38 am Link to this comment

OzarkMichael, You apparently have no clue just how silly you sound. Your pretense at being knowledgeable is made all the more farcical by the revelation that your source of inspiration is The Blaze, a site ran by Glen Beck, whose conspiracy theories were so nutty that they were even an embarrassment to Fox News. You seem to think Obama is a socialist. That’s why he gets so much money from Wall Street, a bunch of known socialists and commie sympathizers. Like Beck, your arguments lack any internal consistency.

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By Litl Bludot, October 1, 2011 at 10:50 pm Link to this comment

I am disturbed. It is still surprising to me that an amazing source of inspiration can be interpreted as an opportunity to display a disgusting ability for intellectual dishonesty-in the form of sophistry meant by a writer to be taken as critical thinking in posting words, not of admiration, but of supposed thoughtful analysis amounting to sock puppet excrement.

These are courageous, honest individuals not yet vectors of parasitoid corporate propaganda who are putting their lives on the line. That is what the occupy wall street protesters are doing: there can be no doubt that their names will be put on hit lists of one form or another for either immediate or delayed punishment by various corporate controlled entities of “homeland security”. The only valid response, one that shows an awareness rejecting life as a commodity on this homo “sapien” terrorized dying planet, is to offer help in the form of supplies or ideas, and of course, concomitant action. If you can’t do that, you should be isolated (like the rabid corporate fascists) from what’s left of beauty on this fragile, tortured but still lovely and fecund mother earth, until you’re able to exist within its web of life without attempting to destroy it.

http://www.adbusters.org/campaigns/occupywallstreet

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By Anarcissie, October 1, 2011 at 9:37 pm Link to this comment

Occupy Wall Street is not normal anything.  It is going to be very hard to say what it is, because now that it has broken into the mass media and become a thing, a lot of people will be coming down to see it, take pictures of it, learn from it, exploit it, sabotage it, run con games, whatever they want to do.  There is a huge field of political background energy consisting mostly (but not entirely) of anger and fear that also energized the Tea Party events.  However, the Tea Party (-ies) seem to have had preexisting organization and leadership; the Occupation is still amorphous and could grow in any direction.  It does have structure of a sort (or it did yesterday) but it does not have a set of visible leaders or a received doctrine.

Even when the movement started it had an odd mixture of liberal reformism and radicalism.  After all, why bother with restoring the Glass-Steagall Act if you’re out to abolish capitalism?  The actual ‘demands’ thus far decided upon have been very much on the liberal-reformist side.  Now, in (say) an old-time anti-war demonstration, yes, you’d see 20 or 30 side issues advertised, but the focus was on the war and when the war had been protested everyone went home and the war went on.  These people aren’t going home, so the argument as to who they are and what they’re doing will continue.

I see a really fundamental problem, though, in targeting ‘Wall Street’, in that normal American politics at the Federal level has always been a playing field pretty much reserved for the rich.  To change that would require radical, fundamental changes.  Judging by the predominant reformism, I don’t think most of the people who have been talking about it realize that yet.  Of course, that’s just the well-worn anarchist in me talking.

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By OzarkMichael, October 1, 2011 at 11:04 am Link to this comment

Anarcissie, any attempt by the Occupiers to invoke, reference, or claim
themselves to be patterned after some great event or personage should cause
you to be more cautious.

Recall if you will that the Tea Party invoked, referenced, and claimed certain
patterns about themselves. It seems to me that did not prevent them from
being wholly manipulated by outside forces. In fact, one got the impression at
Truthdig that the invocation was a cover for the nefarious aspects, and so
such invocations ought to raise immediate suspicion.

Therefor, your reports of various invocations and claims to follow a pattern by
the Occupiers ought to raise eyebrows here. Apparently not though?

But here is something that I admire: You seem to understand that the
Occupation is not exactly normal democracy. I thought for sure I would have to
explain that to you against heavy resistance, but you have already understood
it on your own. The consequences of this are going to need worked on later,
but you are farther along on this than I thought.

On the question of Activists and their invocation of historic personages, one
must ignore what is merely window dressing or you will never detect what the
Puppetmaster is accomplishing. Getting starry eyed about the invocations isnt
going to serve you well.

It

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By Leefeller, September 30, 2011 at 8:12 am Link to this comment

Accordingly Wall Street occupation has new support from different unions, even some tea baggers showed up and I believe more people in general will be attending this weekend, ...it is a live!  My pompoms are waving behind a mighty cheer.

Here in Hootowl the only exciting thing happening is my neighbors are pissed and accusing me of throwing a dead skunk into their backyard. I told them the skunk was alive when I last saw it. So it must have eating some of that rat poison they have spread all over their yard. After all they are Republicans and have this inbred propensity to blame others for their own actions.

Can you see the Pom Poms waving OM?

You know OM, do you have a plan on what should be according ti OM or what OM would like to happen? All I ever hear from the OM is ‘You Liberals, yatta, yatta and umpty ump!’ What does OM believe besides his deluded premeditation fetish of certainty about Liberals?

Well, gotta absolutely run and most certainly get my Pom Poms cleaned!

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By Anarcissie, September 29, 2011 at 6:27 pm Link to this comment

Here’s another take on the Occupation.  I don’t agree with it completely, but then the author has spent more time there more recently than I.

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/09/matt-stoller-occupywallstreet-is-a-church-of-dissent-not-a-protest.html

or

http://tinyurl.com/6jzgmca

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By Anarcissie, September 29, 2011 at 6:07 pm Link to this comment

Actually, the present action is supposed to have been inspired by Adbusters.  But most of the participants who say anything about it claim the Arab Spring, especially Tahrir Square, as their inspiration.  The initial phases certainly seem to have been disorganized enough for such a vague and distant model, except someone did collect some money for food (see the web site). 

None of it seems very rage-y.  The Occupiers constantly tell each other to be non-violent, non-aggressive, respectful of others.  The ghosts of Gandhi and King must be growing weary of their continual invocation.  The demands thus far decided upon are all, as I’ve said, well within the liberal social democratic / welfarist scheme of things, like the restoration of Glass-Steagall.  Not so long ago they would simply have been the platform of an ordinary political party.

Of course, as I’ve also said here and there, the fact that such mild proposals require revolutionary methods suggests that the regular political system has frozen up.  We have other indications of that.  A large majority of Americans opposed the bailouts, but they went through anyway.  A majority of Americans oppose continued war in the Middle East, but the wars grind on.  Supposedly, a majority desire Single Payer medical insurance, but the proposal can’t even be mentioned.  No matter who or what the people vote for, they get the same thing.  Meanwhile, the economy declines, and unemployment, foreclosure, and bankruptcy rise, except for the rich.  The U.S. is beginning to look like a ‘failed state’.  You don’t need a secret plot to get people in the streets.

In any case, no one is in control, so expect the present event to evolve according to its own internal logic, which I cannot claim to have discerned, and the pressure placed upon it from the outside, which thus far has mostly been wet weather.  Outside of the Union Square thing, the cops have been pretty cool, or so I’m told.

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By OzarkMichael, September 29, 2011 at 4:31 pm Link to this comment

Anarcissie said: Your theory is curiously reminiscent of Slavoj Žižek’s, who complained that anarchists were being manipulated by ‘secret masters’.  At least he didn’t contradict himself by specifying who the secret masters were.

How silly. I never heard of the Zizek.  You know full well that i learned this theory of manipulation from folks like you, Anarcissie. And nothing about what i am saying is secret. True, you are unaware, but that doesnt make it a secret.

Anarcissie said: Well, there is no end of people offering to tell the Occupiers where to go, what to do, and how to think.

So true. However, before the protest there were only select few people telling the Occupiers what to do. These select people we shall call the Organizers. Lets look into it a little, shall we? No secrets, just some unpleasant truths to face.

First, the term “Days of Rage” is not new. Its originator is Bill Ayers and i suppose we must also credit Bernadine Dohrn. Yes, they had the first “Days of Rage“ which were some occupations and violent Chicago riots in 1969 by the Weathermen. You know Bill Ayers, the domestic terrorist? Except he is a Leftist so we dont call him that. Instead we give him a job at a university and let him write textbooks for kids. In fact, kids are taught to respect him for his ‘activism’. Did you know that Barack Obama started his political career in Bill Ayer’s home? Just a coincidence, i know.

Anyway, the Organizer of the new “Days of Rage” is not Bill Ayers. He cant go under the radar. It was someone else who went on tour to organize impressionable young Leftists. Best place for that is college. We never would have known about this tour of colleges except someone recorded him in April or May.

Stephan Lerner is the one recorded, so we can call him the Organizer. He is an ex-union leader. SEIU to be exact. Did you know that Obama considers himself the best friend SEIU ever had? and that he listens to SEIU advice? He practically is an SEIU member? Just a coincidence I know.

You can listen to the tape of his meeting here:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/revealed-the-lefts-economic-terrorism-playbook-the-chase-campaign-for-a-coalition-of-unions-community-groups-lawmakers-and-students-to-take-down-us-capitalism-and-redistribute-wealth-power/

Here are some excerpts: “Days of Rage in ten cities”

“a week of civil disobedience, direct action all over the city(New York):”

here is a nice excerpt:”...have a week of action in New York with the goal of … I don’t want to go into any details because I don’t know which police agents are in the room”

Wow, what was that about? He got the “Days of Rage” organized but he couldnt tell the college kids what they were going to New York for? Two possibilities: either Lerner felt the Days of Rage have an illegal goal, or he just didnt want the Leftist kiddies to know the goal so he merely used the police as a ‘cop-out’ so he could keep the kiddies in the dark.

Either way, isnt manipulation great? Or probably you will close your eyes and deny that Lerner has anything to do with the “Days of Rage”. OK, but arent those Campers on Wall Street so young? College age? Its all just coincidence, probably.

Next time we will find out the goal of the “Days of Rage”, which for some reason the poor Pawns camping out on Wall Street werent told about.

It isnt a secret. People get manipulated all the time without their awareness of it. Thats the Leftist explanation of the Tea Party, and now we apply the same Leftist analysis to the Campers on Wall Street.

One more fun thought: Did you know that Steve Lerner, the Wall Street Occupation Organizer, had meetings with Barack Obama in the White House several times? Just a coincidence, of course.

This is just the beginning. The “Tea Party Koch Brothers” got nothing on the “Days of Rage Leftists”. More next time.

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By troll, September 29, 2011 at 1:28 pm Link to this comment

...I guess

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By Anarcissie, September 29, 2011 at 1:24 pm Link to this comment

Well, there is no end of people offering to tell the Occupiers where to go, what to do, and how to think.

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By troll, September 29, 2011 at 1:19 pm Link to this comment

OzarkMichael - while I dunno about your leftist accusation syndrome - too many outliers - I do agree that the emergence of a Great Leader would be problematic

the shit is in the breeze…such as the question which twittered by this morning: “Is this occupy movement the beginning of a populist party?”

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By Anarcissie, September 29, 2011 at 11:24 am Link to this comment

Ozark Michael—Your theory is curiously reminiscent of Slavoj Žižek’s, who complained that anarchists were being manipulated by ‘secret masters’.  At least he didn’t contradict himself by specifying who the secret masters were.  After all, if they were secret….

I haven’t been down to the Occupation in a couple of days.  Last time I was there, they seemed to be pretty well supplied.  I will probably go over again Friday, but I’m not going to bring anything unless someone asks for it.  As for their ideological purity, now that celebrities and great leaders have shown up, anything may happen. 

The demands which have actually been decided upon are relatively mild liberal social-democratic favorites, like the restoration of the Glass Steagall act and the abolition of the Federal Reserve Bank.  It’s the methods being used to advance them which are radical.  The reason that radical methods have to be employed is that the normal channels of political discourse have been frozen shut.  Everything these people say they want has been declared off the board by both of the major parties.  So that leaves ‘revolution’, if you call three hundred people in a park a revolution.

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By OzarkMichael, September 29, 2011 at 7:34 am Link to this comment

Today I shall base my work off the Leftist presumption that ‘movements’ are secretly controlled by powerful evil people behind the scenes. This presumption negates independence, rationale thought, and self motivation of every individual in the movement. It transfers individual initiative to the manipulative control by the villain.

It thereby reduces every argument, every reason, all good motivation, all good faith, all sacrifice, and all activism to nothing.  The Leftist has no hesitation to apply this accusation to millions, to negate those millions, more millions, or even all humanity if need be. The Left must prevail against the masses at all cost!

I have, through a few years of work here, discovered that Leftists resort to the accusation when their world view is threatened by any fact or event. If the Leftist is a stronger type of person, they will use their intellect for a short while before collapsing to the accusation.

But it isnt only a matter of intellect. Ideologically, the further Left one goes, the less stimulus is needed to trigger the accusation(that others are ‘bought, paid for, manipulated, willing agents of’ some arch-demon control center)

Let us note in passing that the most extreme Leftists make the accusation against anyone they deem not loyal to their agenda, accusing even other Leftists. Several such extreme Leftists are here at Truthdig. I name just two: drbhelthi, Martha/Thomas. They have a long line of historical Leftist tradition to draw from. They need no proof, no evidence to accuse you of working for the evil enemy. All they need is the fact that you resist them. Such accusations have historically led to action later.

Less extreme Leftists are careful not to accuse other Leftists, however they are not so careful otherwise. That is the sorry common legacy of the Left: an irristable urge to negate the humanity of millions.

For we must also admit that for the average Leftist to accuse the average conservative, little evidence is required. Interestingly, most Leftists are told about the ‘manipulation’ and simply believe it, and thus the accusation becomes a fact as it is repeated amongst themselves.

This Leftist accusation is used as a weapon on conservatives. Millions upon millions of people are thus rolled into a class, and then disposed of(negated) by attributing their activism/participation as being bought off, manipulated, etc etc. If we answer that we are not aware of being manipulated then the Leftist responds: “you arent aware because thats how manipulation works.”

Strange that Leftists never see themselves as being manipulated. Since they arent aware of manipulation that gives them calm certainty. Really? Oh Yeah.

Having resisted this ‘Leftist dehumanizing accusation’ on a philosophical basis without success, at some point a change in my approach was needed. Basically, it involved taking your own methods of attack and turning them against you. I was surprised at how easy, so very easy, Leftist methods are to use and this is no exception.

If you consider the ‘manipulation’ of others to be fact, it shouldnt be hard to apply the same accusation to yourself. But somehow it is, you need some help. So lets get to it:

Wall Street is being occupied by the poor Pawns who call themselves “99%”, while their Handmaids(such as Anarcissie) bring them assistance and their Cheerleaders(such as Leefeller)dont do anything but wave their pom-poms around.

None of them are aware of the Puppetmaster who intends to profit from it all. None of them know about the Politician who is scheduled to swoop in and save the day, and none of them know about the Organizer flunky who worked on the ground.

Let us now look by behind the curtain.

Every ‘movement’ needs a front man who moves under the radar to sell the idea. The Organizer travels from place to place. His job is to stoke up the emotions, and direct it against the planned target.

Details next time.

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By John R., September 28, 2011 at 9:26 pm Link to this comment

@ troll

I can only refer you to the site.

There is no leader here, but there is a vote on what may be right.

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By troll, September 28, 2011 at 8:57 pm Link to this comment

John R - the decision procedure presented in your link differs in some significant ways from that discussed in the notes on today’s (the 28th) evening GA over at nycga

how are you working to resolve the difference in approach to consensus building?

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By John R., September 28, 2011 at 4:28 pm Link to this comment

My apologies for the difficulty in finding the list.

Here is the link.

On the left side of the site page you will see a MAIN MENU

Underneath you will find, and click on #Occupy Demands

http://coupmedia.org/

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By Leefeller, September 28, 2011 at 2:56 pm Link to this comment

Thanks again Anarcessie,

A comprehensive list no doubt and one I support, for what is worth standing for is worth fighting for! Maybe they can come up with a short list designed by subject in outline form?  Many inequities, even abuses seem real to me which need be addressed. My complements.

Where it goes no one knows, but we shall see. I found this link, some may want to check it out!

https://occupywallst.org/

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By Anarcissie, September 28, 2011 at 2:29 pm Link to this comment

Leefeller—Try http://tinyurl.com/3doym5n

I think the overarching demand is that a lot of things that have been ruled off the board be discussed at all.  Among these are
- open government
—protction for whistleblowers
—reduction of secrecy, not its constant increase
- an end to the dominance of wealth in government
- an end to financial adventurism
—restoration of Glass-Steagall
—nationalization or breakup of ‘too big to fail’ banks and corps
—end, reduce, or ameliorate foreclosure crisis
—end, reduce, or ameliorate student loan crisis
- progressive income tax, including capital gains
- Single Payer or cooperative medical insurance
- restoration of the 4th Amerndment
- network neutrality
- rational reform of IP laws
- return of the broadcast spectrum to the people
- an end to imperialism and military adventures
- rational, humane, non-racist treatment of immigrants
- environmental protection
- end of the prison-industrial complex
—end of the death penalty
—termination of the Drug War and rehabilitation of its victims
- free education for all

No doubt I’m forgetting some, but my point is that there is no political vehicle through which to raise or discuss these and other perfectly rational, practical, rather mild reformist-liberal ideas.  Meanwhile the plutocrats and kleptocrats are running the country off a cliff.  That is why there has to be some kind of uprising.

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By Leefeller, September 28, 2011 at 2:08 pm Link to this comment

John M.

Link to 13 demands did not work?  Why not post them here?

List of demands, a count of 13 of them seems a bit numbery and confusing, most people I know would be elated if you provided one solid coherent demand people could support, now it seems people will need to take off their shoes!

Something like one person, one dollar, one vote, now I can remember that!

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By John R., September 28, 2011 at 1:08 pm Link to this comment

Since I am here with the occupy Wall street.

I can speak for myself, and, from those that I have spoken to, this is what we
do not identify with:


Democrats
Republicans
Lefts
Rights
Independents
Teaparty

And or any other political affiliation that my come to your mind.

This is what we do identify with:

Human beings (practicing their civics)

Here is the link to what our demands are - 13 in all - and they are clear. Please
read them, please email into the link. We civilians welcome input and creative
thinking in the list. Please scroll down the page.

http://coupmedia.org/occupywallstreet/occupy-wall-street-official-demands-
2009

I have always respected the opinions of Truthdig posters. I only ask that you
make a serious effort to read and understand these demands.

No one here on Liberty Street (what we like to call it) has plans to leave, in fact,
just the opposite. We are planning on how to make it through the serious and
rough winter months ahead.

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By Anarcissie, September 28, 2011 at 9:25 am Link to this comment

There are quite a few differences.  Nevertheless, I don’t see anything stopping Tea Partiers from coming down to Liberty Street and joining the conversation.  I doubt if the Koch Brothers will approve, though, and that would mean no more money.

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By Jeremy, September 28, 2011 at 1:05 am Link to this comment
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Sad.  Tea Party and 99% people have the same goals.  Rather than bashing each other you might try working together.  I identify with both groups.  Why don’t you?

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By Anarcissie, September 27, 2011 at 12:06 pm Link to this comment

Some blogger did suggest baking noxious substances into muffins, such as laxatives, and offering them to the Occupiers.  This was accompanied by the usual sort of abuse and derision any public exhibition of leftist sentiment attracts.  My guess is that it was a nasty joke, but that sort of thing has been done in the past.

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By OzarkMichael, September 27, 2011 at 8:01 am Link to this comment

Anarcissie said:

There is some nervousness about home-baked goods since some rightists on blogs have suggested giving the Occupiers poisoned food.  It was probably a joke, but who knows?  I will shortly be bringing bottled water and fruit (at their request, posted on their web site..

You are blissfully unaware of the manipulation, the plan, and the goals of the puppetmasters. Since no-one here has a clue, I will show some next post.

The manipulated paranoia of poisoning would be funny if you werent in a frame of mind to believe it. That is part of the Occupation 99% mindset by the way: a sense of persecution. They see themselves as victims, they have a need to be victimized. Deep down, it is what they want. Listen to the hysterics of the protestors, the way they talk about it.

Black helicopters, anyone?

I suppose in your view it is a good thing to be a handmaid to the 99% Pawns. How will they know, Anarcissie, that your fruit doesnt have something bad injected into it? They suspect that they are being infiltrated and poisoned. Do you have a secret ‘hi-sign’ so they will know you are one of the good guys?

If this was the Tea Party being so paranoid you would laugh at them.

Another Occupier obsession is that the police and authorities need to be provoked. Something needs to happen. Some protestor wants/needs to get hurt. It is actually hoped for, such confrontation has always been the Leftist dream. Without it the Occupation will melt away eventually. Violence is desired and courted as a moth seeks the flame. My, Leftists are such peace lovers!

One mistake by the police, just one… that is highly sought after. Maybe the police are performing their job correctly but a video only shows an Occupier getting hurt… thats all that you really need to get this thing going, isnt it? Deep down, its what you want.

You might as well be honest and admit it. You would prefer the real thing(police brutality) but almost the real thing(appearance of brutality) would be just fine. If someone gets hurt, that false sense of victimhood will spread and spark widespread uprising. Real Rage! Wouldnt that be ‘great’?

And please be honest: if you saw that the Occupier broke a law and resisted arrest but the video only caught the part where an Occupier got hurt, you would keep quiet, right? Because truth is not the goal, the goal is something else.

Maybe you are a rare Leftist who would insist on truth? Your fellow travellers have never been under such compunction before, and by all reason you should doubt them now. But no, trusting lamb that you are.

Do you think the Pawns would sacrifice obtaining the big goal for the sake of the inconvenient trivial truth? They have been taught otherwise.

Do you think the Puppetmasters and Leftists in history let little details like truth block their program? You ought to read about the Left in history.

A certainty: Along the way you will be (and already have been) lied to, and you wont notice or care until its too late. The possibility of ‘change’ is too enticing.

The Occupiers are been manipulated into a classic ‘us’ vs ‘them’ mindset, and as days go by emotions become stronger. They are becoming True Believers.

Do you even know what the real goal is? The Occupiers dont seem to either.

Not knowing the goal… but willing to be victims just the same.

Yearning to be victims… of a triggered/provoked violent response.

Bravely huddling together…  afraid and paranoid.

Incredibly, you hope it spreads. Because more of the same is how a beneficial change will occur?  More paranoia, fear, confusion, victimhood, all wrapped in widespread rage is good? Days of Rage turn into Weeks of Rage turn into what exactly?

If it was the Tea Party you would spot all the contradictions easily and you would mock it mercilessly. You would spot the Puppetmaster and the goals.

As it is, you are Pawns and Handmaids.

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By Anarcissie, September 25, 2011 at 12:43 pm Link to this comment

People are bringing food and also giving money which is used to buy food.

There is some nervousness about home-baked goods since some rightists on blogs have suggested giving the Occupiers poisoned food.  It was probably a joke, but who knows?  I will shortly be bringing bottled water and fruit (at their request, posted on their web site (http://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution)).

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By troll, September 25, 2011 at 12:00 pm Link to this comment

...seems like the occupation could use a group (like food-not-bombs but without the name perhaps) to adopt it and keep it fed off of the city’s leftovers—might be able to set up roots if properly fed

I haven’t heard much about such solidarity actions yet but assume that they are in the works

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By Anarcissie, September 25, 2011 at 9:09 am Link to this comment

There are 200 - 300 people there overnight.  Considering their logistical requirements, that’s about capacity.  Yesterday someone said there were about 1000 people in the park or hanging around.  As the weather has cleared up some and the word is spreading, there may be more today, unless of course the scene is attacked by the police.

Passing the links I gave around is an excellent way to critique the capitalist media without saying a word about them.  However now that there were a few arrests, they’re beginning to experience a conflict between their ideology and their commercial interests, and they may begin to pay some attention.  If there is any violence, of course, it’ll be all over the tube, especially if it can be attributed, rightly or wrongly, to the protesters.

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By Leefeller, September 25, 2011 at 8:46 am Link to this comment

Thanks for the links Anarcissie,

The protest seems to be gathering steam? The Media downplays it to sound like only 100 or so protesters, just looking at the crowd it seems many more than that.

If I recall the US Rage group was planned to protest on Oct 11, so lets hope they can work together and provide a clear Cognitive view.

One person, one dollar, one vote!

Okay, I know I am not providing a raging torrent here, but I am feeling the rage.  Opportunists and manipulators have no shame.

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By Anarcissie, September 25, 2011 at 8:11 am Link to this comment

You don’t need the boss media.  You can get a live feed from http://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution.  Also, there is a summary of events and other material at http://nycga.cc/.

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By Leefeller, September 25, 2011 at 6:23 am Link to this comment

Well it seems the NYPD likes spraying mace in peoples eyes, I think the cops were way over the top, such good dogs! No coverage as usual except here…; (check out the comments section)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/sep/25/occupywallstreet-occupy-wall-street-protests

Coverage seems light, if this was a Tea Bag rally it would have been covered by all the Mass Media! Confrontational police or is it to be any protesting is not to be.

US spring seems to be falling, good for the powers that be, bad for the world.

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By Anarcissie, September 24, 2011 at 9:23 pm Link to this comment

EmileZ, September 24 at 7:58 am:

@ assholecissie
‘... Don’t be toooooo careful.  ...’

It’s definitely a hazard.  But then there’s wit, eh?

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By Leefeller, September 24, 2011 at 9:23 am Link to this comment

US Rage from what I understand was started by one person in Facebook, (If you Google it you will see several different ideas on it)  until money is taken out of the equation in politics it will only be worse for the populism of our nation and the world. I had hoped from the initial development of US Rage, it would gather no dust under its feet. Unfortunately Rage may have a ways to go before it becomes a viable reality for a larger segment of the people of this nation, I suspect Rage may never surface and develop like the tea party rage, because there is no money behind US Rage, actually the opposite is the case.

My Rage is contained in the knowing, the seeing and just being aware as best I can of the unfairness and inequities as they have been, will be and who the sponsors of them are.  Basically being informed and wonders never cease, scratching my head wondering why some people vote against their own best interests. For instance, Tea Party people show a rage, but a rage against their own best interests and their fellows? I do not understand this. So I am always learning for me rage is in the knowing. In my case rage is not a blind hate or Conan the Barbarian kind of rage, it is more of an astute awareness of knowing potential options and when and where the humungous unquived shaft is coming in for its grand landing. 

Some people believe our wold as we have known it is imploding, a possibility we may want to be aware of?

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By EmileZ, September 24, 2011 at 7:58 am Link to this comment

@ assholecissie

I believe your input might also be useful for other issues such as the Israel Palestine situation.

Don’t be toooooo careful.

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By Anarcissie, September 24, 2011 at 7:20 am Link to this comment

Being affected by one’s social context, a universal experience for humans, is somewhat different from being manipulated by particular parties in a particular way.  Evidence of the latter would be a curious diversion of attention on the part of the targets, especially if it were apparently irrational.  For example, start out protesting bailouts, then banks, then say banks equals Jews, Jews equals Israel, Israel equals Likud, Likud equals aggressive war, therefore support Hamas.  Or, bailouts because of insolvency, insolvency from subprime mortgages, subprime mortgages equals Mexicans, Mexicans equals illegal immigrants, therefore support oppression and expulsion of Mexicans.  I haven’t seen any of that sort of thing at the present event, although it has certainly cropped up elsewhere, usually, so far, as provocateur work rather than top-down manipulation.  For the latter, I think the evisceration of the anti-war movement was the classic.

If I had to point out evidence of any current manipulation of leftists at present, it would be the failure of the Left in general to protest and agitate against the present administration as it perpetuates war, imperialism, inequality, intrusive surveillance, and plutocracy.

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By EmileZ, September 24, 2011 at 6:24 am Link to this comment

@ Ozark Michael

“I was not aware that genetics worked that way”

Good luck with that assholecisse!!!

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By OzarkMichael, September 24, 2011 at 5:57 am Link to this comment

I don’t think the Wall Street Occupation is, as yet, being manipulated by anyone.  There is a fairly straightforward connection between the widespread resentment of the, shall we say, banksters, and the present action, running directly between the ears of the participants.  That is, I think they know what they’re doing or trying to do, and it is fairly tightly connected with their perception of the facts.

          -Anarcissie


Human beings rarely ‘know what they are doing’ and when people act as a crowd there is an intoxication, an emotional state, a sense of power which does not sharpen intellectual and ethical sensibility, on the contrary, emotion and power dulls judgement. This gaurantees that human beings (already tenuous in their self awareness) as part of a crowd are made less aware, are and always have been oh-so-easy to manipulate as a crowd. Isnt that part of your philosophy? Dont you apply such logic to others?

If you arent aware of the manipulation it just might be that you too have been maniupulated. Isnt that possible? In fact, humanly speaking, since you know of so many millions of other humans who you claim are manipulated without their knowledge, isnt more than just possible, isnt it a probably that you too are maniupulated? In that case, what would be more natural than your lack of awareness of it?

Except i dont want to make this about you personally. i want to discuss the Wall Street Occupation.

Why do you not apply simple human truth to these people? Are they somehow a new and better species simply because they hold your ideology? I was not aware that genetics worked that way.

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By EmileZ, September 24, 2011 at 12:46 am Link to this comment

@ Leefeller

Did I ever tell you how fond I am of your handle???

It’s the “feller” that really gets me, but Lee + feller… that’s even better (assuming it bears no relation to Robert E. Lee).

As far as the icon goes, sorry avatar, where is the RAGE my friend. I don’t feel you are following through in that department.

One ordinary citizen dollar, one ordinary citizen vote, we all get screwed. And when we get screwed (or screw ourselves) the rest of the world gets screwed as well.

Time for RAGE!!!

Where is your RAGE???

Is RAGE truly mindless???

I don’t know where I am going with this.

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By Leefeller, September 23, 2011 at 10:58 pm Link to this comment

Anarcissie thanks for the update and link.

This is close to what we discussed a while back, something called anarchy, very amusing.

Well one can only hope the protests will increase in size like they did in Israel.

One person, one dollar, one vote!

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By Anarcissie, September 23, 2011 at 8:18 pm Link to this comment

OzarkMichael—I don’t think the Wall Street Occupation is, as yet, being manipulated by anyone.  There is a fairly straightforward connection between the widespread resentment of the, shall we say, banksters, and the present action, running directly between the ears of the participants.  That is, I think they know what they’re doing or trying to do, and it is fairly tightly connected with their perception of the facts.

Their primary resentments seem to be directed against particular institutions, rather than individuals or classes of people (other than a few who have significant, overt power.

Of course, that could change.  I have already described a number of times how the anti-war movement was used.  One might say the same thing of the Tea Parties, but I am not sure how they were actually constituted when they started out.  They were reputed to have an important libertarian component which has surely been squeezed out of the superstructure if not the Tea Parties as a whole.

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By tuhuya, September 23, 2011 at 6:35 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Paul Krugman has called Social Security a Ponzi scheme.  The trust fund is an empty box with a worthless IOU in it.

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By Anarcissie, September 23, 2011 at 5:59 pm Link to this comment

As promised, I visited the site of the Wall Street Occupation thing, the writeup of which I’m calling ‘Liberty Street’ (because that’s where it is, but it’s also a good name).  Here’s the URL:

http://www.1freeworld.org/libertystreet.html

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By EmileZ, September 23, 2011 at 2:45 pm Link to this comment

@ David J. Cyr

Dennis Kucinich recently appeared on CSPAN’s Washington Journal which can be watched here…

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/301698-4

Among other things (like his new bill to end the Fed), he talked about the possibility of a 4-way presidential race in 2012. If the Tea Party candidates lose the republican primary, they may run their own candidate, also there may be a challenge from a Green Party type candidate on the left.

If this scenario were to play out, how much do you want to bet that it would be a THREE-way debate???

There is no way in hell that the corporate media would allow a Green Party type candidate to participate.

You could be sure, however that a Green Party type candidate would be given ample time on Democracy Now.

Actually, I just wanted an excuse to post the link to the Kucinich interview.

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By OzarkMichael, September 23, 2011 at 2:00 pm Link to this comment

There is a great deal of anger in the country about ‘Wall Street’ and it’s going to be pretty hard to manipulate it in favor of either major party, because both of them are fully and openly committed to the interests of ‘Wall Street’.  So who would be manipulating the protesters, and how?  To what end?  This is what I’d hear about.

It has happened before that Anarcissie asked a direct honest question, and i had to give a direct honest answer.

It has also happened before that i first wanted to give a qualification before i gave the answer.

So first I want to say that ‘looking for who is behind’ a movement or a person is a bad habit. It is bad to disregard individuals who have conviction or an idea and who are willing to take time from their lives for that idea. i dont care if its 2 million, two thousand, only two hundred, or merely two. Even one, because one is an individual.

Yes, i know this undercuts all my recent and future arguments, but your honest question must be met with my own honesty. i will get back to my attack later. 

I first confess that ‘Looking for who is behind a movement’ is a way to discredit all the people who have their own rationale, their own motivation, who have their own individuality, who have their own commitment to that movement… by rolling them into a ball and tying them to a supposed ‘controller’ with nefarious motives, thus explaining away all those people and their individual decisions with one negation.

Such negation is frightful, it is very dangerous. In a democracy it is the destruction of the foundation of civics. In ethics it reduces the human spirit to nothing.

Yet this is what the mainstream press has done to the Tea Party. This is what atheists have done to religious, this is what Chris Hedges has done to Christian fundamentalists.

Here is the m.o. of the Left: reduce individuals to a class, then tie that class to a single evil motive beyond their ken, and finally on some future date that class is fed into a shredder. The shredding is initially set up by and thus originates from Leftist ideology and no place else. The fact that later it is a government which executes the sentence supposedly absolves the original Leftist ideology.

The often-cited grounds for absolution is that some Leftists end up sent into the shredder as well. True, yet that is no defense for the Leftist ideology. For it cannot be that only Other people can be rolled into a class, it cannot be that only Other people can be reduced to less than individuals. No! The Leftists themselves will some day be rolled into a class, and they too will become less than people, linked to some controlling evil force beyond their ken. And this event is held up as proof that it wasnt Leftist ideology at fault in the first place? I beg to differ.

For it cannot be that only Other(conservative, religious) people are controlled by great evil forces that they do not comprehend, it cannot be that only Other people are less than people… whilst yourself and your comrades are legitimate people who have legitimate ideas and thoughts. Sooner or later what goes around comes around.

We have in the last century an increasing objectivity which promotes itself as scientific, as if that is the reasonable way to approach life. Against this i must protest.

When it comes to other human beings, cold objectivity has always been dangerous. To have mass objectivity on an industrial scale will be the negation of humanity.

Having attempted in sunny happy days past to introduce subjectivity as the preferred approach to the Other, I failed. Yet i still wish to caution and stem this cold objective tendency amongst Truthdiggers. So now in these colder days only one course remains open to me. For if Leftists insist on being so objective towards others, then I undertake the unpleasant task of teaching them to apply the same objectivity, the same chilling frightful negation… to themselves.

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By Anarcissie, September 23, 2011 at 9:50 am Link to this comment

This site seems to have material from the occupation:
http://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution
plus a sort of chat stream running alongside.  There is
also clearly stuff from other recent events.

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By Leefeller, September 23, 2011 at 6:39 am Link to this comment

Corporations are people too, according to Romney and the Supremo Court. I as a people, am insulted by this concocted delusion. How the hell does this work, I get to vote as one person for people who are to represent me and my family in government, the corporations get to choreograph, manipulate and buy votes with unlimited money super packs, lobbies as people too, but they do not get to vote.

What they are protesting against Wall Street is supporting the concept of one person, one dollar, one vote. What is so hard to understand or comprehend about the obvious inequities in the Supremo decisions saying corporations are people too? A Supremo Court which seems bought and paid for like Congress.

Corruption seems the norm, the Republicans in Congress are bought and paid for, some of the Democrats may be also, hell just look at the money and where it comes from. Only an idiot would see this as fair and acceptable representation.

Hell… Elizabeth Warren is running against Wall Street money and looking like she is ahead, so people may be catching on, lets hope it expands to the whole nation in the next election.

I support the protesters in spirit and appreciate their action.

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By Anarcissie, September 23, 2011 at 6:34 am Link to this comment

I was interested in the charge of covert manipulation.  It is not unknown on the Left; for example, during the Bush years the anti-war movement was manipulated into serving as an electoral tool against Bush and then McCain by people from the Democratic Party establishment who insinuated themselves into important organizational posts in organizations like UFPJ.  Once the Democrats had elected a president, they demolished the anti-war movement to give Mr. O a free hand to pursue his own military adventures.

Likewise, the Tea Parties started out as a revolt against the Republican establishment; if a Republican is elected in 2012, you’ll see whatever is left of the revolt thoroughly disappeared, if it hasn’t been already.

There is a great deal of anger in the country about ‘Wall Street’ and it’s going to be pretty hard to manipulate it in favor of either major party, because both of them are fully and openly committed to the interests of ‘Wall Street’.  So who would be manipulating the protesters, and how?  To what end?  This is what I’d hear about.

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By bodhidharma, September 23, 2011 at 6:08 am Link to this comment

From looking at many of the comments, it would seem that our side, as usual, has no chance because we are too busy fighting amongst each other to put up a united front.  There must be room for differences of opinion and working together with those who may have a different vision than you if a movement is to succeed. I am not certain what direction positive change will come from.  I only know we have to have it soon. And I know it will require changing the minds of some on the other side. We cannot do this if we lose our empathy and ability to see things from the eyes of those we disagree with.

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By Anarcissie, September 22, 2011 at 7:13 pm Link to this comment

OzarkMichael, September 22 at 6:28 pm:

‘... I have seen a few videos. I have read some of their signs. Most of the protesters dont know what they want to accomplish, dont know what the end game is, dont know who is calling the shots, and most importantly dont know what their puppetmaster’s agenda is.’

If you think the demonstration or occupation is being manipulated, let me know who and how and I’ll see what I can find out.  I believe I know some of the (dis)organizers.

My impression is that, thus far, it’s just a protest against the usual suspects.  Given the things that have happened since 2006 or so, what’s been really surprising has been the lack of protest except for the Tea Parties, which were easily diverted away from their original targets.

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By OzarkMichael, September 22, 2011 at 6:28 pm Link to this comment

the 99% movement? Wow. This is really big.

Martha/Thomas could only come up with 70%. There was a time when she was roundly mocked by many, who now seem to have taken up her cause and propelled it further down the road. 

I have seen a few videos. I have read some of their signs. Most of the protesters dont know what they want to accomplish, dont know what the end game is, dont know who is calling the shots, and most importantly dont know what their puppetmaster’s agenda is.

Poor pawns.

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By Leefeller, September 22, 2011 at 9:05 am Link to this comment

Gloria Picchetti,

It is not hopeless, ...I prefer the saying “we are doomed!”

This could be a real start of “we the people springing”  seems there is always hope, and never hopelessness, for I have even seen hope in deaths eyes!

Lets see what Obama comes up with his line drawn in the sand.  I hope I will not be eating crow again, this is my hope!

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By David J. Cyr, September 22, 2011 at 6:23 am Link to this comment

QUOTE, Amy Goodman articulating the young Occupy Wall St demonstrators’ position:

“We are the 99 percent that will no longer tolerate the greed and corruption of the 1 percent.”
_____________________

Objective Reality: All that ever increasing greed and corruption has regularly had near unanimous 99% popular vote mandate approvals, provided by all those who have voted for the corporate party’s Republicans and greater evil Democrats.

Liberal and conservative voters have routinely joined, in corporate (R) & (D) solidarity together on every Election Day, to carelessly provide 99% popular vote mandates for perpetual war; 99% popular vote mandates for kleptocratic economic policies; 99% popular vote mandates against actual healthcare; 99% popular vote mandates to (R) deny & (D) ignore climate change… for the fossil-fuel and financials industry to extract us all into extinction.

But Amy Goodman keeps earnestly “Tea Party, Tea Party, Tea Party, Tea Party…” shepherding sheeple, again, into the corporate party’s Democrat pen.

http://www.chenangogreens.org

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By Gloria Picchetti, September 22, 2011 at 4:57 am Link to this comment

It’s hopeless.

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By Leefeller, September 22, 2011 at 1:28 am Link to this comment

Three hundred Thousand people protested in Israel and we herd nothing in our media about it. Though the protesting in Israel started out with a few people in tents. Evidently in Israel the protest was more general on a series of issues, unlike the one in Wall Street which is specific for now.

So 200 or 2000 is a good start,... go people.

Anarcessie, keep us posted if you make it down and check out how they a doing!

One person, one dollar, one vote!

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By mrfreeze, September 21, 2011 at 10:17 pm Link to this comment

Keith Olberman pointed out something interesting about this particular “story,” this evening on his TV program:

I several hundred tea-party activists had shown up at WS (or anywhere else for that matter) the Media would be on it like white on rice. It would be BIG news; however, the fact that this was a rally by seemingly regular folk (young people) seems to have no “bleed/lead” value for the Media.

I think one of the main reasons why Americans don’t protest more is the fact that their voices are never heard in the MSM and there’s a 24/7 propaganda cabal of media outlets who only tell one side of the story.

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By Anarcissie, September 21, 2011 at 5:55 pm Link to this comment

There are probably about 200 - 300 overnight.  There is not a lot of space to hang out in the Wall Street area; according to what I’ve read, they are hanging out in a small park where 300 people would be quite a crowd.  Numbers like ‘2000’ refer to temporary daytime demonstrators, not occupiers.

I may go over to see what’s going on tomorrow or Friday, assuming they haven’t been busted or dispersed.  (I’m writing this on Wednesday night.)

I was amused to hear that certain large corporations dutifully tried to shut off their electronic services a la Mubarak.  I guess it didn’t work.

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By taikan, September 21, 2011 at 5:22 pm Link to this comment

@Mental Traveler—Many years ago, Mao said that “all political power comes from the barrel of a gun.”  This does not mean that non-violent demonstrations never can force a change in government.  They can, as shown by the success of Ghandi and the success of the recent “Arab Spring” in Egypt and Tunisia. 

However, non-violent demonstrations only work to bring about a change in government when the demonstrators are willing to get shot and those in government, including those who actually wield the guns, are no longer willing to shoot them.  That’s why the “Arab Spring” worked in Egypt and Tunisia, where those wielding the guns were no longer willing to shoot them, and didn’t work in Libya, where Ghaddafi and the mercenaries and tribesmen who supported him remained willing to shoot the demonstrators.  That’s also why it hasn’t worked yet in Syria or Yemen, where those who wield the guns (i.e., the government and its soldiers and police) have so far remained willing to use their guns against those who demonstrate peacefully.

When considering the likelihood of bringing down the corporate power structure in the US through non-violent means, the key question to be answered is whether there are enough demonstrators willing to be shot and remain non-violent to persuade those in power in this country, and the military and police who wield the guns on their behalf, that they should put down their guns and allow the demonstrators to force a change in the power structure.  If so, then non-violent change is possible even though it may come at a high cost.  If not, then violence is the only means available to effect a change in the power structure.

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By Morri Creech, September 21, 2011 at 4:52 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Thank you, Ex Ponto, for that excellent Guardian article. It makes one hopeful.

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By dean1981, September 21, 2011 at 4:51 pm Link to this comment

When Republicans cry “class warfare”, I think some historical perspective is
needed. Clinton era rates for the highest tax bracket isn’t that extreme—see the
chart on the link below.

http://www.verisi.com/resources/us-marginal-tax-rates.htm


Also the term class warfare implies there’s a competition going on. If there is, the
top earners have clearly won:

  http://www.verisi.com/resources/decision2012.htm#s7

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By OzarkMichael, September 21, 2011 at 4:46 pm Link to this comment

2,000?

that many? I heard it looked more like 200.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZkdvA2W5MI

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By Ex ponto, September 21, 2011 at 2:49 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Don’t mistake this small beginning.  This action is growing.  See the link below.  When a movement is fed by its supporters on Twitter, there’s much more here than meets the eye.  Then there are the Wobblies.  And this is only Dave Five.

Note:  Of course, it takes a British paper to bring us the news.  Long live freedom of the press!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/sep/19/occupy-wall-street-financial-system

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By ChukLitl, September 21, 2011 at 12:35 pm Link to this comment

Building & maintaining empires requires cheap, preferably expendable, labor. If some would be filthy rich, some must be dirt poor. It’s not a zero sum game, those of us who work could all be comfortably middle class, though some may need to downgrade their definition of comfort. Pay a little more so your locally employed neighbors can keep their jobs. Tax the rich enough that they need the deductions for hiring & training your neighbors with decent healthcare & retirement packages.

Re Big B vs The Stranger:
The free speech of the churches isn’t threatened, only their tax exempt status, which hasn’t been threatened in recent years as it was under most previous administrations, & is Constitutionally questionable in the first place as establishing religious preference into tax law. My faith isn’t exempt, though it may be if y’all send me money.

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By eps62, September 21, 2011 at 11:42 am Link to this comment

This is our Arab Spring! The greed of Wall Street is what caused our recession. This protest started with 9 people a few weeks ago now there are 2000. We need more people.

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By Alan MacDonald, September 21, 2011 at 10:37 am Link to this comment

This minor step of “Occupying Wall Street” is really just the first step in “The Coming Insurrection” [Negri] or the global revolution “Against Empire” [Parenti]:

Naturally, there is little media coverage by the ruling global corporate/financial/militarist Empire which now controls our former country by hiding behind the facade of its ‘bought and owned’ TWO-Party modernized “Vichy” sham of faux-democratic government—- just as the Nazi Empire when it was trying to control Europe and the world installed its crude, first-generation, single-party “Vichy” facade of government in Vichy France c. 1940.

What is starting to happen today in this uncoordinated ‘Occupy Wall Street’ protest in the US, which is the nominal and temporary headquarters of this entirely new scale of post-nation-state global Empire, is the beginning of what could quickly become a Second American (and world) Revolution “Against Empire” [Michael Parenti]—- and that naturally scares the hidden, well disguised, and generally undiagnosed global corporate/financial/militarist EMPIRE to death—- and thus they (the global Empire) will use all power in their hands; political, media, money, and ultimately military, to crush this nascent, if improperly named revolution “Against Empire”

Alan MacDonald
Sanford, Maine

Liberty & democracy
over
violent
empire

New America People’s Party 2012—our last chance “Against Empire”

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By doublestandards/glaasshouses, September 21, 2011 at 9:47 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com has a great video of Elizabeth Warren campaigning in Massachusetts.  She makes a case for fairness in taxation that progressives have not made before.  Watch this and see why wall st is afraid of her.  Having her in Washington will be the best thing that’s happened for progressives in a long, long time.  First female president?  The future of democracy looks brighter.

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By Wishingforsanity, September 21, 2011 at 8:55 am Link to this comment

I believe in the power of the people. I believe in MLK’s messages. I believe that we can
be the change we want to see. I believe that the protestors, whether they are 200 or
2000 in numbers are the bravest segment of this disillusioned, beaten down, Shock
Doctrined Ameeica who would rather mock them then stand in solidarity with them, I am
disenfranchised, And I, along with a friend of mine are half-way to NY to STAND side by
side with these amazing patriots.

The Freedom Fighters did not decline to change our country because it was going to be
too hard or take too long. They forged ahead. ALL of us who claim to be Progressives,
liberals, lovers of country, demanders or free speech, heros of justice and liberty for all
should join this Occupy Wall street movement NOW!

I am not a young person without a job. I am not a religious nut bag or a hater of all
things religious, nor am I a naive low-information citizen who would rather throw my
hands in the air amd say” What good can one person do?” I am 50 years old and will
proudly sit and chant and demand that the media and Wall Street and America come
back to it’s senses.  The Revolution haa begun. The Revolution will be televised. Where
will you be? Watching and mocking?  Living in fear of being on a terror watch list
therefore doing nothing towards change? Will you be paying obeisance to the moneyed
1%? Or will you bravely face the cameras in peaceful actions to speak truth to power?

it’s time.  IT’S NOW!  Hope to see you there too.

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By The Mental Traveller, September 21, 2011 at 8:54 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Get lost, Big B. As soon as you advocate violence, you surrender all moral authority and legitimacy. I’d rather let “them” win (there’s always a “them,” right?) than impose my own self-righteousness with a gun or a club. That’s the problem, really, isn’t it: Left or Right, there’s always that coterie of the smugly self-righteous who are SURE the world would be better if everyone just did it their way. Or, worse, if we all “just crushed the right people.” Danton, Robespierre, Hitler, Stalin: no heroes of mine. I admire your “anti-violence” posturing, but when it’s a prologue to violent agitation it smacks of just the sort of “corporate headquarters” rhetorical equivocation you seem to despise. You forfeit your claims to sincerity. And you paint the rest of us as cranks and riot-mongers. Find someplace else to dump your “down-with-the-man” tripe. The “system” will always be imperfect, and there will always be those who are spoiling to bring it all down—even if it means the debris rains down on everyone’s head.

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By Morri Creech, September 21, 2011 at 7:56 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Just under two hundred years ago, Percy Shelley—a poet and, hence, an “unacknowledged legislator” of mankind—had this to say about the social and political climate in England:

England in 1819

An old, mad, blind, despised, and dying king,—
Princes, the dregs of their dull race, who flow
Through public scorn,—mud from a muddy spring,—
Rulers who neither see, nor feel, nor know,
But leech-like to their fainting country cling,
Till they drop, blind in blood, without a blow,—
A people starved and stabbed in the untilled field,—
An army, which liberticide and prey
Makes as a two-edged sword to all who wield,—
Golden and sanguine laws which tempt and slay;
Religion Christless, Godless—a book sealed;
A Senate,—Time’s worst statute unrepealed,—
Are graves, from which a glorious Phantom may
Burst, to illumine our tempestous day.


Though the U.S. may have few princes, there are nevertheless plenty of members of the wealthy and political classes in our country who “flow through public scorn,” flaunting power and prestige in the face of public resentment. (I’m still outraged that Tim Geithner and other financial cowboys occupy favored positions in the Obama Administration). Certainly, though, we have more than enough “rulers who neither see nor feel nor know / but leechlike to their fainting country cling:” just look at the opportunistic politicians lining their coffers with corporate contributions, landing sinecures in the private sector after vacating office, and generally dismantling sound governance at the behest of their moneyed supporters while “the people starved and stabbed in the untilled field” continue to struggle through decades of economic hardship, a currently devastating unemployment problem, virulent anti-labor and anti-union policy, and historic levels of incarceration in an increasingly privatized, for profit prison system. While we rattle the saber of U.S. military force in the name of democracy, we commit “liberticide” abroad, demanding that others adopt policies and form governments to benefit our own venal interests; and we commit liberticide at home as well, abrogating the sacred and inalienable rights guaranteed to free men and women by the constitution. Our military might has indeed proven a “two-edged sword to all who wield,” increasing domestic and foreign instability as a result of our intervention in the middle east and elsewhere. How about those golden and sanguine laws ‘which tempt and slay’? There are too many to enumerate here, but certainly the “Citizens United” judicial decision is a fine example of turning a “sanguine law” (protection of free speech) into a perversion and a travesty of justice. Christianity in our country has proven itself “Christless, Godless, a book sealed,” as the faithful clamor for harsher, more draconian penalties for each least infraction; cry “Crucify them! Crucify them!” at the un- and underinsured in recent political debates; turn their backs on immigrants, minorities, and the poor; cheer for the death penalty while piously extolling the value of unborn life; and seek to destroy the last vestiges of government protection for the out-of-work, the poor, and the underprivileged. The travesty that is the 112th congress needs no critical words of mine: they have proven feckless, opportunistic, cynical, and criminally irresponsible on such a grand scale that an indictment here would be a sheer waste of language. As for real change: we’ve seen both the Arab Spring and the peaceful revolution in Iceland (despite media blackout of the latter) already; the central question, then, is this: for Americans, where is our own “glorious phantom?”

A final word: Amy Goodman, you are a journalist who performs her duties in a time when most do not. Thank you for your perseverence, dedication, and ethical responsibility.

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By lasmog, September 21, 2011 at 7:42 am Link to this comment

I admire the protestors and agree that the media will largely ignore their cause.  An anti-Wall Street movement would be very healthy for this country, unfortunately most of that justified rage has been siphoned off by the half-wits of the tea party. - Just for a moment I’d like to imagine what might have happened if Obama had not thrown in his lot with the Geithner/Summers Wall Street cabal and had actually prosecuted the financial industry for fraud.  - The moments over, back to our sad reality.

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By Litl Bludot, September 21, 2011 at 6:42 am Link to this comment

Anna,

To see Amy Goodman’s in person interview with David Graeber, here’s the link:

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/9/19/david_graeber_the_debt_of_the

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By GradyLeeHoward, September 21, 2011 at 5:07 am Link to this comment

B:
Trust and obey, for there’s no other way, to be
happy in Jesus, than to trust and obey.

Jeremiah Wright tells Chris Hedges how Obama is
obedient on another DIG page.

Obama sings: Come with me, and you’ll be, in a
world off pure imagination. Living there, you’ll be
free, if you truly want to be.

Man! Ain’t that some poisoned candy!

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