Methinks the clown doth protesteth overmuch…..

Bears repetition:

You are an honest to goodness laugh riot, really. If you bothered to read your own link, jackwagon, you would have found that it emphasized two important points ( well OK three if one counts the point atop your head)

1. The rioting is on the part of the police

2. the few instances of vandalism are condemned , not condoned, by OWS and there is much suspicion that the vandals themselves were not a part of the movement at all but either used it as an excuse for such action or were actually police agitators.

Every one of your posts links you more firmly to OM and IMax and makes a mockery of your supposed political stance as moderate.

The embolden words are to help your obvious reading disability. Why on earth would someone
first make a claim and then post a link that actually refutes the claim? Why ask why?

ardee, you go argue your closed-eyed crap with Naomi Wolf.

My POV is quite a bit different from that of IMax or OzMike and it’s not too
intelligent or informative to repeatedly attempt to confuse my POV with theirs.

It doesn’t really serve to address anything of substance.

I guess that your views and thoughts no different from those of Leon Czolgosz.

heterochromatic, November 1 at 8:34 pm Link to this comment

@ ardee——-

” There are, unfortunately, many documented cases of violent provocateurs infiltrating demonstrations in places like Toronto, Pittsburgh, London, ...”

Naomi Wolf

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/01/wolf
-the-people-versus-the-police/

You are an honest to goodness laugh riot, really. If you bothered to read your own link, jackwagon, you would have found that it emphasized two important points ( well OK three if one counts the point atop your head)

1. The rioting is on the part of the police

2. the few instances of vandalism are condemned , not condoned, by OWS and there is much suspicion that the vandals themselves were not a part of the movement at all but either used it as an excuse for such action or were actually police agitators.

Every one of your posts links you more firmly to OM and IMax and makes a mockery of your supposed political stance as moderate.

do not forget Rome! They had a peaceful march which a small group splintered off to be quite violent. 

Wonder how many here are provocateurs in their own right?

Is not the OWS message of inequality not clear enough or am I the only one here who has felt disenfranchised by my own government sold to the highest bidder?

@ ardee——-

” There are, unfortunately, many documented cases of
violent provocateurs infiltrating demonstrations in
places like Toronto, Pittsburgh, London, ...”

Naomi Wolf

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/01/wolf
-the-people-versus-the-police/
———

Outraged, Robespierre is simply another right-winger desperately trying to discredit OWS
because he knows the sleeping giant has awoken and will dwarf the teaparty. He is
TERRIFIED that all wacko stuff they have gotten in including supreme court justices will
be swept away in the coming tsunami.Obama alone of the major pols is starting to figure
out how to ride the wave.  Ryan fears it will drown him.

What all people have in common must be hidden for then division is working.  So inequality is not to be focused on, no .... we must keep away from the disinfrcisment and focus not on the message but in fact we must focus on anything but the message!

A common cause must never be allowed to fruition, this is the job of hired provokers and provokiteers, so how serious are some of the people posting here?  Is not inequality the message the ever widening feeling of disenfranchisement to be discussed?

Consistency has it merits at times, but I surmise it is used by some here, to keep the topic on hand at arms length and better yet hidden in a closet!

The simple fact our government is corrupt, broken and bought and sold to the highest bidder bothers me, because there is no way in hell, I will ever be a high bidder or even a low one!

David J. Cyr, October 31 at 7:17 am

“Voter Consent Wastes Dissent”

Quote of the week, David.  Hope you don’t mind, by I
linked your article to my own,

Protest, Protest Forever!

http://blogcritics.org/politics/article/protest-
protest-forever/

ardee———- assault

—-“Protesters living in Zuccotti park are dealing with an escalating security
problem, which some say could threaten the sustainability of the Occupy Wall
Street movement.

There have been multiple incidents of assault, drug dealing and drug use, rape
and attempted rape, according to conversations with numerous protesters. And
the problem, they say, is getting worse.

In the past several weeks, the cluster of tents at the west end of the park—the
farthest section from the bustle of working groups and activity near Broadway -
- has grown increasingly dangerous, many say. The sanitation team has
reported finding needles in tents, and reports of crack and crystal meth use
have surfaced. But the most serious concern most protesters say, is the risk of
assault, especially for women and at night.-”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/01/occupy-wall-street-
security_n_1069597.html

Police in Cleveland said a 19-year-old woman was raped at an Occupy protest
there, and authorities in Oakland and in Seattle have reported sexual assaults
and incidents of indecent exposure.

ardee———-sexual assault

—-“Protesters living in Zuccotti park are dealing with an escalating security
problem, which some say could threaten the sustainability of the Occupy Wall
Street movement.

There have been multiple incidents of assault, drug dealing and drug use, rape
and attempted rape, according to conversations with numerous protesters. And
the problem, they say, is getting worse.

In the past several weeks, the cluster of tents at the west end of the park—the
farthest section from the bustle of working groups and activity near Broadway -
- has grown increasingly dangerous, many say. The sanitation team has
reported finding needles in tents, and reports of crack and crystal meth use
have surfaced. But the most serious concern most protesters say, is the risk of
assault, especially for women and at night.-”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/01/occupy-wall-street-
security_n_1069597.html

Police in Cleveland said a 19-year-old woman was raped at an Occupy protest
there, and authorities in Oakland and in Seattle have reported sexual assaults
and incidents of indecent exposure.

heterochromatic, November 1 at 9:58 am

So enlighten this poor one and show me such acts of violence. One thing you righties have in common it seems is an awful lot of accusation and absolutely no link to such.

Talk is cheap oh stooge of the 1% I ask you like I asked your buddy IMax, put up, though I could never hope you’ll shut up. In response this marvel of genetic failure posted a link that spoke to absolutely no specific instance of claimed violence. What’s your excuse?

Oz—-“One person on Truthdig saw it coming, and it wasnt Chris Hedges… it was
me!”

having the ability to see and forecast things better’n Hedges ain’t nothing to brag
on….

probably be good cause for a complete psych work-up in you couldn’t

balkas—may you continue to tell people that you’re ninety for a hundred years.

Simply put, fact is people are talking about the 99 percent compared to the 1 percent and the inequalities between the two. This subscribes to the fact people are taking notice, especially those of us who are in the 99 percent who have been feeling disenfranchised for a long time now, hell even the Republicans have had to acknowledge the existence of the 99 percent as they areforced to choke on it, through they will fight to their last benefactors dollar to not mention abuses and inequalities!

Get the money out

every time i grab a very hot potato, i learn s’mthing;
however, to my great annoyance my brain just does not
remember what i learned.
so that’s one sense i got: the pain or a sense of touch.

when my wife says or screams at me, You haven’t
scrubbed that pot yet that i asked you three days ago to
scrub for me, i sure learn s’mthing: i can hear and jump
in fear!

and i can smell my wine rooms away. and i can taste it,
too.

alas, i can see everything but god. lesson derived: some
people must be able to ‘see’ god with another sense.
in other words, they posses six senses.
and with the sixth sense know how god smells and even
what he says or thinks.
but when they get sick they all run to a doctor or
hospital, nevertheless.

ok! i did finish last in each of my two elementary classes;
so, it shldn’t suprise that i lack comrephension of all
that elevated seeing/smelling.

and when my wife tells me: bob, don’t talk stupid; talk
so that everybody understands you and no just me, i do
not try to interpret that, either.

for that i’d need a seventh sense and i don’t think i got it
yet.

btw, how many senses a prez has? just asking! but
please don’t tell me. keep it to yourself if you can endure
without telling me!!

i am now 80 y o. but i usually tell people i am ninety.
and i always get treated better than i wld if i told the
truth! oh, the power of a lie!! tnx

The revolution will not be minimized.

——-in conclusion, we all learn only via our five senses.——

i had a feeling that you were gonna say that, balkas.

how did you learn that there are only five senses and how did you learn to ascribe
that limitation of learning to other people?

structure of a cancer cell or system of rule is what one can see
with two good eyes.

by good eyes [actually, we see with our brain structure; eyes
being only lenses] i mean a brain not previously indoctrinated
by ideas imparted to us over millennia, in the main, by clero-
plutocratic class of life; id est, the masters of
war/peace/people/money/education/army, etc.

so, how does a structure of a cell look like with aid of a
powerful microscope? ask a scientist who looks at it and he’d
surely tell and be happy to tell you! 

by merely looking [no, this time we do not need a microscope
nor any ‘schooling’ {means: clero-plutocratic one} whatever] at
u.s system of rule, we’d see its structural members:
judiciary, administration, congress, cia/fbi, ‘education’, money,
military, MSM, religions, etc.

each of the above-listed structural members is part of ONE
AND THE ONLY WHOLE.
none functions apart from any other structural member of
governance. all work in total unison and total unimentality.

take any of the structural members away from that reality, say,
cia only, and u.s is in big trouble in conducting military actions
or waging wars of aggression.
take away two, judiciary and fbi/police and allow it to function
for all americans equally, the structure is shattered.

alas, most americans see, say, judiciary, as acting
independently from W.H/congress, or keeping an watchful eye
for any wrong doing by it.
while in fact its only function is to come with the interpretation
of any constitutional law as is desired or ordered by
W.H/congress.

eg, it took 7 yrs for supreme court to mull over whether torture
is constitutional or not and only after that long slumber woke
up and just as W.H. wanted
brought down a decision that it is maybe or maybe not illegal
after all—[il]legality depending where and when it is done.

in conclusion, we all learn only via our five senses. never from
a book, constitution, law, quran, bible as they cannot be
known—they can only be interpreted and that includes what i
just said. tnx b b vancouver

—the point i am making is that nothing structural ever
changes in u.s—-

perhaps you don’t know enough about the history of the US or
perhaps you should clarify what you mean by “structural”

in some sense nothing structural has changed on the Earth in quite a while.

“prose almost always dose”. i did notice the word “dose”
and did correct it to “does” [or i thought i did.
so, let’s emend the thought thusly: almost all talk
behavior/thinking lies and mathematics never.

and when it comes to political, columnist, and priestly talk
or prose, ooh laah laaah.
or compared to that of an used car salesman, it is much
more awesome.
but very musical to all supremacists.

i also forgot to put in quotes the “growing inequality in
wealth and income”. dionne owns this massive
misconception and no me.

he, by saying that, [?deliberately] avoids to find out what
was the actual ratio of wealth between the richest
americans and the poorer and poorest ones from 16th c to
year and 2011.

i suggest the ratio was about the same. and the system
[extant world wide and not solely in u.s] ensured that the
ratio stays about the same no matter what else changes.

be it as it may, dionne shld talk better than that to us.

the point i am making is that nothing structural ever
changes in u.s [and not just in u.s—and there goes u.s
uniqueness and exceptionalism [hey, emperor had no
clothes on, said a little girl]

and as a wise person had said, only study of structures
[cancer, clouds, governance, money use or abuse]
elucidates and may or may not set you free.

it depending on many factors. many of which we had
posited over and over again. tnx, b b vancouver

balkas—-let’s notice please that mathematics don’t lie—prose nearly
always dose.======

there are three kinds of lies…....

ardee——One continues to hear about such excesses of “tolerable behavior”
attributed to the OWS movement yet one finds nothing in the way of illustrative
proof of such.———

one finds a good deal more than nothing if one opens one eye.

Why didn’t you vote for Ralph Nader when you had a chance for a third party? He’s a social democrat - think Canada, Australia, Scandinavian countries, - he has a track record (to hell with empty talk of hope!) of sticking up for the average person and would have regulated Wall Street a long time ago. Why did you keep him off the ballots!

Bush of course did abominable things to our world when in office. And Clinton was the Democrat of those behind the scenes, as is Obama. But they can’t go full throttle till they have a Repubican in the Whitehouse.

I believe Obama can be persuaded to some version of good sense, but so many activists are exhausted after the Bush years. And we must know that 4 years from obscurity to the presidency says he must be in with some very heavy folks….but I believe he has reachable vestiges of the person he purports to be.

The OWS people are sincere and a great influence now. I applaud them and pray for them and hope they flourish and grow like the mighty oak from the little acorn. Stay simple and sincere and hard wired to the protective ways they are presently embracing.

Why hasn’t it been said often enough that we aren’t being persuaded or muffled by the right and the wealthy but intimidated, threatened and targeted should we emerge as truth talkers and good deed doers. “They” will murder those who would find the resources to change their world. They’re not intelligent or wise or they would have long since found a middle ground, found a way to be harmonious and egalitarian, found the way to protect the planet. Its their lack of values that is sickening, not their wealth. The great “They”, hhhhhhhhh.

dionne: growing inequality of wealth and income [in u.s] does not
elucidate the situation in u.s.
it seems to me that the system of rule in u.s [and not only in u.s, but in
all supremacist lands/empires] is founded on inequality; thus, had been
practiced/instituted/taught in school on day one of euro arrival to
americas.

and nearly all americans became wealthier because of the system and not
just rich ones.
by wealthier, i also mean extremely wasteful, mean to ‘aliens’; greedier,
more warlike, much ‘better’ armed, etc.

there had always been extreme [but not as extreme as in india, tho]
poverty and riches in u.s. and the ratio of wealth between the richest
0001 to 002 or even one% and a worker, say, toilet cleaner, might be
about the same; say, a person being 100-1000 richer than a fisher or
homeless person.

so if dionne wants to elucidate the situation he shld give us the numbers
in question. let’s notice please that mathematics don’t lie—prose nearly
always dose. tnx bozh vcr

Outraged, good to see you back in the saddle.  There are many of these crony institutes out there, one which is little known as a cooperative of corporations and I believe Koch Brothers have their finger in it also, calls itself ‘ALEC’.  I suppose they work or attempt to work under the radar and say they are not a lobby group.

Cliff, another poster on TD seems to have more insight on the workings of ALEC!

The list of right wing super packs and 403cs is mind boggling, hopefully Occupy Wall Street can expose the abuses they perpetuate as they have already exposed and addressed the abusive inequality by the one percent to the attention of the nation and the world.

From what I can tell, when corporations are considered people too this sounds fascistic to me?  Possibly Mussolini may have reincarnated many times over to become the 1 percent?

Geeze… there are something like 150 lobbyists in DC for every Congress person. So much for representative Democracy!

this isn’t a good time to compare the two. the Tea Party is years old and OWS not
two months. the OWS is still having a “honeymoon”. however the flaws and
inherent weakness of the tactic of “occupation” and the failure to define and
control the limits of tolerable behavior among the occupiers is soon to draw
disapproval from the general citizenry.

One continues to hear about such excesses of “tolerable behavior” attributed to the OWS movement yet one finds nothing in the way of illustrative proof of such.

I rise to note this troubling trend here at TD and, perhaps, elsewhere as well. Posters should feel obligated to annotate their versions of reality with links one might think. Now opinions are one thing but actual accusations would seem to require some shred of proof.

I note that this failure (in my own opinion) is not limited to either left or right but is found among both sides, or all the sides here.

So far, as far as my own research shows, the “intolerable behavior” of OWS seems limited to throwing their eyes in front of pepper spray, their heads in front of rubber bullets and their nerve to think that free speech and free assembly are actual rights.

” - - the failure to define and control the limits of tolerable behavior among the occupiers
is soon to draw disapproval from the general citizenry.”  heterochromatic

Unfortunately, neither leadership nor participants of the OWS are able to control the
behavior of CIA, police, hired criminal goons, and a few patsies who behave disruptively. 
Nor would shills of Wall Street and the murderously inept U.S.Government permit OWS
participants to function without goons being sent in to appear disruptive, and enable the
goons among the police to behave stupidly.  Fortunately, police persons increasingly see
through the hired-goon activity and decline to be sucked into the brutality stance.

Chalk up some points for the many police persons who support patriotism instead of Wall St.

Dear Truthdig,

Happy Halloween

Frank Zappa - Transylvania Boogie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X8Yq5ylYmU&feature=related

P.S. Mr. Zappa is yawning on the cover of Chunga’s Revenge: the album of which Transylvania Boogie is the first track. Yes Mr. Dionne, you can take that yawn personally if you like.

Too early and way too optimistic, Mr Dionne.

——“A recent survey by The Washington Post and the Pew Research Center
showed Occupy to be more popular now than the tea party, which keeps losing
ground.”—-

this isn’t a good time to compare the two. the Tea Party is years old and OWS not
two months. the OWS is still having a “honeymoon”. however the flaws and
inherent weakness of the tactic of “occupation” and the failure to define and
control the limits of tolerable behavior among the occupiers is soon to draw
disapproval from the general citizenry.

Let’s ask John the Bonner how he and his GOP thinks about the trickle down theory of economics.
The Wall Street sharks are trickling out their windows of Goldman Sacks down on the revolution. Soon they’ll be pissing their own pants if all goes well and we—the 99 percent—finally find our way out of this corporate state of fascism.

The one sure sign that Occupy Wall Street is succeeding is when people stop voting for the democratic and republican corporate candidates.  Until then, it is just more of the same. Unfortunately for Mr. Dionne, he will also be out of a job as the democratic party apologist.

Vote third party, protect the bottom 25% that nobody is talking about, stand for human rights for all. That is how change can begin.

When you are on a path, don’t be surprised when you get to it’s destination.

Voting for the democratic party is throwing away your vote, and giving consent to the status quo.

if you think anything will change with politics and corporations, you’re delusional. nothing will change until there are millions of people in every major city protesting and power lets slip the dogs. this whole sit in is ridiculous and the grubbers are laughing their asses off the way i am at the positive slant of this article.

Re: Lefeller

Your comment: “Yes the promoters and divisors are working overtime and real, look what happened to Chip in Kansas.”

Why…. whatever gave you that idea…? lol

Hey, how goes it?  Hope life finds you well.  Yes, they are working double-time.  I spent a little time the other day just wandering around the net and it’s really astounding the amount of effort their expending. It must be costing a pretty penny or two. And when you consider how much they’ve expended already, it’s really staggering to imagine by any measure.

I see my status has been upgraded to : “voting
cadres worthless sock puppets like Dionne
delusional blowhard!”.  Why do I not see a 99%er here…..  lol….oh wait, make that LOL.  Anyway.

Article quote: “Now it takes some
temerity for a Republican to charge Obama with
divisiveness, given the GOP’s willingness to promote or countenance assaults on the president….”

Temerity…???  I might summarize that more
accurately as unmitigated GALL.  Sadly, it’s par for the course yet again.  Just like Herman Cain, Paul Ryan is tied to the Koch Brothers and their
affiliates (that whole group of 1% seeking to destroy America, especially democracy)under the guise of “saving” it of course.

Paul Ryans campaign “contributions”:
“According to our analysis of data coded by the
Center for Responsive Politics, Ryan’s campaign and his leadership PAC have received $98,000 from Koch’s PAC and $2,500 from David Koch.”
http://www.campaignmoney.org/blog/2011/04/05/reppaul-ryan-received-more-100000-kochs-and-their-pac

An extremely good article regarding the Kochs:
“Charles Koch seems to have approached both
business and politics with the deliberation of an
engineer. “To bring about social change,” he told
Doherty, requires “a strategy” that is “vertically
and horizontally integrated,” spanning “from idea
creation to policy development to education to
grassroots organizations to lobbying to litigation to political action.” The project, he admitted, was extremely ambitious. “We have a radical philosophy,” he said.
In 1977, the Kochs provided the funds to launch the nation’s first libertarian think tank, the Cato Institute. According to the Center for Public
Integrity, between 1986 and 1993 the Koch family gave eleven million dollars to the institute. Today, Cato has more than a hundred full-time employees, and its experts and policy papers are widely quoted and respected by the mainstream media. It describes itself as nonpartisan, and its scholars have at times been critical of both parties. But it has consistently pushed for corporate tax cuts, reductions in social services, and laissez-faire environmental policies.”
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer?currentPage=all

It’s a very tangled web. One of the articles I had read called it the “Kochopotus”.  So the reality of it ventures further than simply politics. They’ve basically been putting their finger in every pie, economically, socially, scientifically, physically, philosophically etc….

The more you read, the more you come to the realization of the psychopath behind it all.  They’ve even went so far as to mint coins with their face(David Koch’s) on them. That’s bizarre.
Check it out: (approx. 5:50)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cK6RGV2PldY

It is a sad state of affairs when we must circumvent the so-called democratic process with people occupying small public spaces to get the dialogue that is really needed in this country. Republican are truly the misanthropes who should be consigned to city sewers, the low creatures who inhabit the underworld.

I see OWS more of a social comment then a politic one, I believe confounding any subject is what politics does.

Get the money out.

If we read this article we might be seduced into the idea that the revolution is
working because Obama is saying the right things and a Republican madman is
not… the message is clear… “vote for Obama”

But this is written by someone that doesn’t get the idea of politics outside of the
stagnant 2 party cesspool… Obama is simply cashing in while the Republicans are
exposed in the open as the corporate cronies they have always been.

This revolution is all about people who are fed up with the current political system
and want and insist on change and equality that has been missing for decades in
the US.

Tear up the ballots, tear down the walls of repression, cripple the banks and
corporations, make those vulgarians pay… nothing less will bring the required
change in this country!

It seems diverting the topic from OWS is a major tactic or plan for the minions of status ho! OWS may have been taken over by the same tactic in Kansas sounds like it according to Chip, the real inequalitys being brought to the for front by occupy Wall Street are very real, people need to be aware of them if they do not know it already.

Obama is a side step from this and so is the constant pointing of fingers and the ever present diversionary blame game!

Go Occupy Wall Street, you are dragging the crap out of the closet, things some people would prefer choosing to ignore and keep hidden.

For me it is Get the damn money out!

@Billy Pilgrim, yes tremble you hollw shell, the storm is coming!

If you want real change than Change Your Vote . . .
Continuing to vote Republican or Democrat will continue the same rhetoric that has been going on for the last 30 plus years.

Campaigning means saying what you need to in order to get elected. It is what you do when you are elected that really makes the difference.

You as a voter are the only one that can make any sort of meaningful change. Without that you are chasing the wind folks.

@outraged, you can hide behind that hollow rhetoric of “that’s your OPINION,” but the FACTS speak for themselves. Apparently it’s a matter of opinion if someone was truly destroyed by a drone strike or not. What babbling.

@Leefeller, the ying-yang argument might have been convincing back when everything was still peachy and people could afford to hide in the centre, but those times are fast ending.

@MK77, right on, althought delusional blowhards like Outrage will consider all those points a matter of opinion LOL

OBAMA’S RECORD:

1. Staffed his cabinet with corporatists like Geithner, Summers and Clinton and kept Robert Gates on as SOD.

2. Campaigned for a public healthcare option in 2008 but ended up signing a bill which would force citizens to buy private health insurance or else face tax penalties.

3. Supported increases in the military budget despite ballooning deficits and despite the fact that the U.S. spends more on the military than the rest of the world combined.

4.  Extended Bush-era surveillance/wiretapping policies and supported continuation of the Patriot Act.

5. Signed an executive order granting himself authority to assassinate American citizens if he merely suspects them of being terrorists.

6. Helped bail out the most corrupt Wall Street firms/banks.

7. Promised in 2008 to close Guantanamo Bay but has left it open.

8. Promised in 2008 to end the Iraq war, but to this day there are tens of thousands of military troops/personnel in Iraq.

9. Extended military engagements in Pakistan, Yemen, Libya, and Afghanistan.

10. Is on record saying cuts to Social Security and Medicare will be “on the table” in budget deficit talks in the future.

11. Has done nothing whatsoever to stop Israeli aggression in the West Bank and elsewhere, and has stood by as Israel continues to build settlements on Palestinian land. He also opposed Palestinian membership into UNESCO.

Conclusion: Obama’s first term is indistinguishable from George W. Bush’s first two terms. The only difference is that Obama takes a more hard-lined, corporatist view of healthcare than Bush did.

Hey Outraged, I got the same kind of comment about my avatar, which has part of you name in it,...  I was asked; ‘where is the rage?’

Yes the promoters and divisors are working overtime and real, look what happened to Chip in Kansas. 

Evidently Robespierre115, it sounds like you do not believe in Yin and yan as in right and left or as in opposing values?  It would be pleasant to eliminate what appears to me choreographed divisions in the grand scheme of politics, but then the people would be united and we cannot have any of that!

I do not feel the animosity towards Obama as some others display here.  Though for now as for Obama,  I feel a deep disappointment.  This is why I am so damned impressed with the Republicans and the tea beggars, especially when it comes to their special ability to make premonitions about the world and what I should believe, think and feel especially as my stomach turns.

Accordingly Republican benefactors like the Koch brothers, Fox far and balanced news, Grove Russ Limpidjaw and many other righty tightys out there would like to see the 1 percent become a half percent, why am I reminded of a half wit? May have something to do with Om’s comment, and those all so enlightened Republicans so called debates?

We are so lucky to have Republican candidates who show us clearly how something called stupidity can become an art. Hell talking about art, OM is a master in his own right, maybe you should run for office OM?

“You can’t reason liberals out of continuing their irrational robo-voting for the corporate party’s Democrats, because they never reasoned themselves into that.”
— paraphrasing Jonathan Swift

Voter Consent Wastes Dissent:

http://chenangogreens.org/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=498&Itemid=1

CHERRY-PICKING FACTS

{mad: To those who think this is all Bush’s fault: Didn’t Clinton set the table for Bush by getting rid of all the banking regulations, and didn’t Obama vote for TARP and just extend tax breaks for the wealthy? Quit giving these greedy sociopaths a break. }

You are making an amalgam of suppositions and purport that it condemns BO & Co.

One at a time:
* Yes, Clinton did vote for the demise of the Glass Steagall Act, passed overwhelmingly by a Replicant Congress. That’s about all you get right.
* Obama voted for TARP because it was necessary, despite your Naive Nonsense that the banks should have been left to fail. Ours is a credit economy and the SubPrime Mess triggered a monstrous Seizure of the Credit Mechanism nationally. Banks would not lend to other banks, which is the essence of a functional credit-based economy as is ours. Had the seizure continued, then we’d be seeing unemployment rates double, even triple the present 9% - as we did during the Great Depression. How would that consequence have been better for the American people, pray tell?
* The extension of the tax breaks for the wealthy was a key part of a negotiated agreement with the Replicants to pass the 2011 budget legislation, who had insisted on prolonging the Tax Breaks. Again, you conveniently forget an important aspect of that legislation, preferring to underscore only one criteria and forgetting entirely the fact that the HofR is in Replicant hands - so, of course, it’s all Obama’s fault. (You also forget that Obama refused to make the tax breaks permanent.)

The above comment has not even a semblance of objectivity. You’ve cherry-picked your facts because you want to dump on Obama.

MY POINT

The SubPrime Mess is Bush’s fault. His administration neutered the market oversight agencies such that they neglected the necessary diligence to prevent the SubPrime Mess, which was a gross fraud perpetrated uniquely for the greedy interests of Wall Street and Main Street banksters.

http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2011/10/28/bring-it/

Outraged, you wrote:
“We were in a state of meltdown when Obama took office.”
Oh, come on. WE weren’t in a state of meltdown. The banks gambled away all their money, and they wanted the taxpayers to pay their debts. We should have told them no and put them down for good.
Concerning all those wonderful things you say Obama has done: please name one banker who has gone to prison when Obama..“Negotiated deal with Swiss banks to permit US government to gain access to records of tax evaders and criminals” Furthermore, every point you make on that list can be challenged.
My question is, what are you “outraged” about? You seem to have all you want in your fantasy of your good, wonderful savior.
To those who think this is all Bush’s fault: Didn’t Clinton set the table for Bush by getting rid of all the banking regulations, and didn’t Obama vote for TARP and just extend tax breaks for the wealthy? Quit giving these greedy sociopaths a break. They don’t deserve your loyalty.

OzarkMichael: delusionalal once again. Robespierre:
masochist just like his namesake, who was devoured by
the excesses of his own revolution.

Outraged: That is your OPINION.

You are feeding a troll who has yet to present a shred of credible, factual or objective evidence for his provocations.

Your response is EXACTLY what trolls thrive on. Ignore them - place their comments on your SOB-list. (SOB = Scroll On By)

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

EJD: But what’s most instructive is that Ryan would not have given this speech if the GOP were not so worried that it is losing control of the political narrative.

Agreed, but Ryan’s narrative itself is nothing new. It is the some ole same ole that the Replicants continually push to the fore when surrounded by the truth of a matter that displeases them.

Income Disparity/Inequality/Unfairness (choose the adjective that pleases most) has been a hallmark of the American economy since Day 1. It has been brought to the forefront, for the second time in our history, because of the Great Recession that sees no light at the end of the tunnel. It doesn’t matter that 9% is rather low as recession unemployment goes (the Great Depression saw 15/20/25%). It matters that houses are being foreclosed because people cannot meet the mortgage payments.

What’s a country to do? In fact, what is the point of all the outrage and indignation being expressed by a highly vocal group of people - that “enough is enough”.

When we want to express our outrage, we rant on about bailouts and how illicit they were given the fact that the banksters walked away with so much personal income.

The solution to that ignominious immorality is higher taxation. Americans are very touchy about taxation. They have been induced to think that more taxation is bad and less taxation is good.

Which is silly nonsense. Taxation is necessary to provide Public Services for all a nation’s citizens and to do so where private enterprise cannot be trusted fairly to accomplish that goal. It is also necessary to avoid the great disparities that become blatantly obvious when economies nosedive and leave very evident wreckage of lives strewn everywhere.

A FAILURE OF GOVERNANCE

We’ve had a systemic failure of governance by successive administrations, beginning with Reckless Ronnie. Bringing down taxation at the upper levels was indeed reckless policy, that threw our nation into a course of increased National Debt, whilst building the fortunes a select class of people.

The Republicans clearly wanted the inequality to happen. They must now live with the consequences resulting from the social disharmony it has produced.

Don’t forget that next November 2012, still a year away.

Re: Robespierre115, October 31

“Obama despite the fact that the man has done
nothing for the 99% except offer empty, blowhard
rhetoric and a few half bones.”

That is your OPINION.  But many people don’t see it
that way, including myself.  We were in a state of
meltdown when Obama took office.  Still, things WERE
being done (maybe not to your satisfaction) but
somehow I feel you’d be a critic either way. Then in
2010 the nutty Koch-backed teapartiers got elected
(btw, because some people didn’t show up at the
polls, yeah just us “worthless voting cadres”) and
things really got ridiculous.  I don’t have to agree
with everything Obama does to vote for him, and he
HAS done things:
“Until Obama’s presidency, perhaps never before
had major laws that aimed to improve the lives of
vast numbers of ordinary Americans gone so
unrecognized and unappreciated by so many.

What explains the public’s reticence, frustration and
confusion? Certainly its reactions owe partly to the
worst economic conditions since the Great Depression,
with more than two years of near 10 percent
unemployment. Some of the lackluster response was
inevitable, furthermore, given the sheer scope and
complexity of the policy tasks Obama took on.”
http://politics.salon.com/2011/10/15/how_obama_drowned_in_the_submerged_state/singleton/

A few of them:
45. Immediate and efficient response to the floods in North Dakota and other natural disasters
46. Closed offshore tax safe havens
47. Negotiated deal with Swiss banks to permit US government to gain access to records of tax evaders and criminals
48. Ended the previous policy of offering tax benefits to corporations who outsource American jobs; the new policy is to promote in-sourcing to bring jobs back
49.. Ended the previous practice of protecting credit card companies; in place of it are new consumer protections from credit card industry’s predatory practices
50. Energy producing plants must begin preparing to produce 15% of their energy from renewable sources
51. Lower drug costs for seniors
52. Ended the previous practice of forbidding Medicare from negotiating with drug manufacturers for cheaper drugs; the federal government is now realizing hundreds of millions in savings
53. Increasing pay and benefits for military personnel
54. Improved housing for military personnel
http://3chicspolitico.com/president-obamas-accomplishments/

So yeah, unlike you I think he’s been working hard.

@Outraged, yes, you are indeed a sock puppet for choosing to continue to support Obama despite the fact that the man has done nothing for the 99% except offer empty, blowhard rhetoric and a few half bones. It is pretty shameful for someone associated with the movement to defend a war criminal who is now assassinating US citizens without due process. If the movement’s idea of promoting change supporting the corporate parties and the entrenched politicians, then the “revolution” is dead.

You did not understand my comment about postmodernism. We live in times where instead of defining a stance or idea, people want to feel safe by simply saying “there’s no left wing or right wing” or “I want political change but don’t care about political ideas.” So you end up with a void which will eventually be filled by the more organized, corporate operatives such as the Democrats’ sock puppets to which you have apparently affiliated yourself.

Re: OzarkMichael, October 30

“Amazing coincidence? Just dumb luck?

One person on Truthdig saw it coming, and it wasnt
Chris Hedges… it was me!”

Really…. my aren’t you the soothsayer.  Tell me is a
post what you think I’m thinking of your comment.  I
bet you’ll be RIGHT!

Re: Robespierre115, October 31

Your comment: “shows the basic faults of current,
postmodern trends where there’s no line dividing
anything, everything is the same, people want to play
it safe and be “for all sides.”

How would this NOT be the case if “We are the 99%”. 
Are you staking some supposed claim to the OWS
movement?

Additionally, how can you say “one could say that
OWS is failing when Democrat Party tools like Dionne
think the best thing coming out of the movement is
that Obama’s numbers are going up.”

YOU believe it is all about YOUR ideals, but
realistically it is about the 99%, that would include
everyone, not just YOU.

And yeah, I’m one of those “sock puppets” you know that “voting cadre” who apparently according to you are “worthless”. You don’t like the 99% very much do you?

I’m voting for Obama along with the millions of other “voting cadres worthless sock puppets like Dionne”.

@Chip, your excellent reporting shows the basic faults of current, postmodern trends where there’s no line dividing anything, everything is the same, people want to play it safe and be “for all sides.”

As Slavoj Zizek wrote when discussing the European protests:

“The indignados dismiss the entire political class, right and left, as corrupt and controlled by a lust for power, yet the manifesto nevertheless consists of a series of demands addressed at – whom? Not the people themselves: the indignados do not (yet) claim that no one else will do it for them, that they themselves have to be the change they want to see. And this is the fatal weakness of recent protests: they express an authentic rage which is not able to transform itself into a positive programme of sociopolitical change. They express a spirit of revolt without revolution.”

Actually, tragically, one could say that OWS is failing when Democrat Party tools like Dionne think the best thing coming out of the movement is that Obama’s numbers are going up. With or without OWS the Republicans and their candidates were going to look nutty and really bad, what the movement needs to do is keep itself from becoming the kind of voting cadres worthless sock puppets like Dionne already think it’s turning into.

Here in KC our OWS movement was hyjacked quickly after our first rally drew 700+ people.
Some pros moved in and made sure our movement stood for nothing tangible and the truly good people stood
back and baaaa’d.

I won’t venture a guess who sent the hired thugs but
they are good at what they do.

We had less than 200 on our march today.

The theme of the march was “embracing diversity”

We got all sorts of work groups and web sites.
We are very well organized to send out a “incoherent” message.

I pull people off the streets by telling them that “we are protesting our politicians are sold to the highest bidder” and they leave scratching their heads after one of our well organized, meaningless, General Assembly meetings.

OzarkMichael - I guess you haven’t received the “reality memo” about our economy: The incompetence of of the Bush Administration (along with the incompetence of Clinton before him and the willingness of Congress to deregulate key areas of the financial sector) caused our current Depression. No one being intellectually honest (you are hardly ever even remotely honest in your comments) can, or should lay the blame on Obama. He certainly hasn’t been a champion of the middle-class, but the huge economic trajectory the U.S. was headed-in began long before Obama took office.

And the second memo you didn’t get was the one that the MSM has been sending out 24/7 since the OWS movement began: that it has no cohesive message…..hmmmm…so you think OWS will help Obama???? Baloney…........

Rep. Paul Ryan will be going on vouchers for his health care when?

A man wearing an Obama mask at Zuccotti Park in New York says the president inherited a broken country. The protester says he is terrified of what will happen if Republicans win the White House in 2012

And so it begins, just as one blogger on Truthdig said it would.

The President who turned a recession into a depression, who turned a deficit into a yawning abyss, is poised to take advantage of OWS and win that coveted second term.

Amazing coincidence? Just dumb luck?

One person on Truthdig saw it coming, and it wasnt Chris Hedges… it was me!