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Kucinich: Why I Voted No

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Posted on Nov 8, 2009
Flickr / SEIU International

By Rep. Dennis Kucinich

We have been led to believe that we must make our health care choices only within the current structure of a predatory, for-profit insurance system which makes money not providing health care. We cannot fault the insurance companies for being what they are. But we can fault legislation in which the government incentivizes the perpetuation, indeed the strengthening, of the for-profit health insurance industry, the very source of the problem. When health insurance companies deny care or raise premiums, co-pays and deductibles they are simply trying to make a profit. That is our system.

Clearly, the insurance companies are the problem, not the solution. They are driving up the cost of health care. Because their massive bureaucracy avoids paying bills so effectively, they force hospitals and doctors to hire their own bureaucracy to fight the insurance companies to avoid getting stuck with an unfair share of the bills. The result is that since 1970, the number of physicians has increased by less than 200% while the number of administrators has increased by 3000%. It is no wonder that 31 cents of every health care dollar goes to administrative costs, not toward providing care. Even those with insurance are at risk. The single biggest cause of bankruptcies in the U.S. is health insurance policies that do not cover you when you get sick.

But instead of working toward the elimination of for-profit insurance, H.R. 3962 would put the government in the role of accelerating the privatization of health care. In H.R. 3962, the government is requiring at least 21 million Americans to buy private health insurance from the very industry that causes costs to be so high, which will result in at least $70 billion in new annual revenue, much of which is coming from taxpayers. This inevitably will lead to even more costs, more subsidies, and higher profits for insurance companies—a bailout under a blue cross.

By incurring only a new requirement to cover pre-existing conditions, a weakened public option, and a few other important but limited concessions, the health insurance companies are getting quite a deal. The Center for American Progress’ blog, Think Progress, states, “since the President signaled that he is backing away from the public option, health insurance stocks have been on the rise.” Similarly, healthcare stocks rallied when Senator Max Baucus introduced a bill without a public option. Bloomberg reports that Curtis Lane, a prominent health industry investor, predicted a few weeks ago that “money will start flowing in again” to health insurance stocks after passage of the legislation. Investors.com last month reported that pharmacy benefit managers share prices are hitting all-time highs, with the only industry worry that the Administration would reverse its decision not to negotiate Medicare Part D drug prices, leaving in place a Bush Administration policy.

During the debate, when the interests of insurance companies would have been effectively challenged, that challenge was turned back. The “robust public option” which would have offered a modicum of competition to a monopolistic industry was whittled down from an initial potential enrollment of 129 million Americans to 6 million. An amendment which would have protected the rights of states to pursue single-payer health care was stripped from the bill at the request of the Administration. Looking ahead, we cringe at the prospect of even greater favors for insurance companies.

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Recent rises in unemployment indicate a widening separation between the finance economy and the real economy. The finance economy considers the health of Wall Street, rising corporate profits, and banks’ hoarding of cash, much of it from taxpayers, as sign of an economic recovery. However in the real economy—in which most Americans live—the recession is not over. Rising unemployment, business failures, bankruptcies and foreclosures are still hammering Main Street.

This health care bill continues the redistribution of wealth to Wall Street at the expense of America’s manufacturing and service economies which suffer from costs other countries do not have to bear, especially the cost of health care. America continues to stand out among all industrialized nations for its privatized health care system. As a result, we are less competitive in steel, automotive, aerospace and shipping while other countries subsidize their exports in these areas through socializing the cost of health care.

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By KDelphi, November 20, 2009 at 3:11 pm Link to this comment

Gawd, this site sure has followed TD’s normal lead… PatrickHenry’s Jewsjewsjewsjews—get a life. This was a site about health care reform, of which there is none, but….
Speaking of which, I wanted to note how ridiculous the Democrats look groveling, conceding, equivocating and every other condescending adjective you can think of, on c-span2, all over this horrible bill which will certainy not imporove things and may make them much worse.

Of course, they wil all have been re-elected by the time it goes into effect. Future generations (if they dont give up on a modern health care system for ths US entirely)trying to fix this fricking mess will curse us.
Back to our regularly scheduled programs about religion and race.

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By ardee, November 20, 2009 at 4:44 am Link to this comment

This means all people recieve a measure of respect from me until proven otherwise.

Not quite…This means that all Jewish folks are subject to the abnormal and utterly reprehensible opinions of this bigot if they dare differ in any way from his own personal views of normality. One doesnt criticize John Fillinger for his own religion, one doesnt criticize other criminals for theirs, yet this piece of sidewalk excrement thinks it appropriate to castigate nay Jew for any reason.

Of course he is fair minded..how could anyone possibly think any different. Ill bet he is the fairest person in his Stormfront chapter.

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By PatrickHenry, November 20, 2009 at 4:43 am Link to this comment

ITW,

“Alleged insider trading” as the Wiki reads.  By those standards half of Goldman Sachs and even Wall street is suspect.

I find your paranoia amusing, if there is any “hate” shown it is typically yours. 

Several other posters her at truthdig have also pointed out to you your habit of putting words in ones mouth and falsely criticising them for them.

Fortunately you and ardee don’t represent the majority of jews, only the ones who alienate everyone else.

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By Inherit The Wind, November 19, 2009 at 9:24 pm Link to this comment

So….PH…You never heard of this guy? Raj Rajaratnam?  Big, nasty insider trading? Billions stolen? Just a few weeks ago?  Not Indian, but Sri Lanken—very similar culture as it used to be called Ceylon.  I’ll bet if he had been a Jew you’d have heard of him and been posting your hate-filled screeds all over TD.  You just can’t up and admit the truth: You hate ALL Jews because you think we are all “up to something.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raj_Rajaratnam

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By Night-Gaunt, November 19, 2009 at 10:05 am Link to this comment

I understand your attitude Patrick Henry when people keep to themselves even if it is for innocent reasons (fear of many things) or to be exclusive. Jews have had both for being rich or being poor they find themselves excluded over the centuries. Both to protect their way of life and again out of fear. Not like the Christian rich who do segregate themselves but rarely get any flack at all about them—unlike Jews who do stand out depending on how devote they are. [Jews have been the bane of most Christians for centuries. It was the Islamics who protected them more often then not. One exception was King Casamir I of Poland during the Black Plague where he gave them a save haven when the Germans and Swiss were blaming them for “bringing” the plague and burning them alive in buildings!] Now things are different.

I read many web sites and work to keep my wits about me and not to just accept what anybody says about anything. The more varied the reading on the same subject the more you have a chance to discern the truth passed the “spin” so we can be well rounded in the subject. [The No Spin Zone is a myth—impossible.]

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By PatrickHenry, November 19, 2009 at 5:12 am Link to this comment

ITW,  I didn’t read anything about an “Indian” guy but the christian WASP named Stanton is equally detestable as Madoff.  I hope they throw him in jail forever and take away all assets.

Night Gaunt, Thank you for your constructive criticism.  The arab website “conference of birds” certainly has an axe to grind with american jews and I don’t blame them.  The information they give is rarely found in MSM as it is critical of crimminal jews. 

Also I believe you misinterpreted my comment “I simply don’t have any respect for jews like them and there aren’t many that fit that bill. This means all people recieve a measure of respect from me until proven otherwise.  I generally leave how I treat a person up to them, If I recieve condesending and insulting remarks I will respond in kind.

Its no secret I am vocal of the problems America has with Israel and the jews (60% - 70%) who support it.  I see manipulation primarily in media (WTOP here in Washington DC) and in banking by jews in the federal reserve.

And yes I see segments of jewish society involved in the events of 9/11, both involving Israel and certain castes of American jewry.

ardee,  I don’t know where you live but here in Maryland, jews are very exclusionary and prefer to live in their own upscale neighborhoods and attend their own social networks.  The blacks, whites and latinos by in large go to the same schools and live integrated, however in most my years living here I have had very little interaction with any jews besides my dentist and an old hunting buddy who moved to Florida years ago.  As always, the demeanor of your comments gives you away as the hateful, insulting dipshit you really are.

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By Inherit The Wind, November 19, 2009 at 5:04 am Link to this comment

Night-Gaunt:
Thank you.

Anyone who doesn’t recognize that cross-race differences are trivial next to intra-race differences is a fool.

Here’s a simple example: All NFL offensive linemen look pretty much the same, whatever their race. They are big—6’4”-‘6’7”. They are heavy—310 to 360 lbs.  They are quick, but not fast.  They can tolerate pain far beyond you or me.  They seem impervious to cold, playing in 20 degree weather in short sleeves.

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By ardee, November 19, 2009 at 3:45 am Link to this comment

Night-Gaunt, November 19 at 1:32 am

It is heartwarming to see that there are decent people ready to stand against the likes of this pimple on the ass of inclusion and togetherness.

Thank you.

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By Night-Gaunt, November 18, 2009 at 9:32 pm Link to this comment

Yes I understand the conversation as you put it. It is a web site that is the kind of site that the hate is measured and buried in all the “data” given. Rather like how in the infamous “Bell Curve” the end product was that the science, as given, proves that blacks are inferior to whites. Not racist mind you, but “scientific” even if the science used is carefully massaged, subtracted and filtered to just have data that fits the preconceived ideas of the writers. It is a subtle form of pseudo science that is that much more dangerous because it isn’t blatant. So is this web site. And your crack about finding “very few Jews” you can support. Very few out of millions of whom most you have never met nor ever will? Quite sweeping which is what anti_____ operates. Racism, sexism and anti Judaism etc a literal fill-in-the-blank. Instead of treating people as individuals rather than groups puts you, Patrick Henry in that unfortunate group of haters. I hope you will rethink your positions in this matter.

You will find that everyone has the full gamut of human experience and actions from saints to serial killers. We will have some things in common no matter where you go in the world just as you will find plenty with particular differences too. It is what makes us as a species strong. Evolution.

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By Inherit The Wind, November 18, 2009 at 7:23 pm Link to this comment

That article is gross and filled with gross distortions and flat-out lies about New Jersey. I’m surprised it didn’t have swastikas all over it.

That you can quote it and defend is typical of anti-semites….You also went on about Madoff, but not the Indian guy who was just arrested for stealing billions by insider trading…“All those Indians are thieves.  They want the Sub-continent to rule the world!”....

Sounds ridiculous when talking about a nation with 1/5 of all the people in the world, but somehow (to you) doesn’t sound ridiculous when talking about .2% of the world’s population…lemme see 1.4 billion versus 14 million…but you’d NEVER claim that about Indians!

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By PatrickHenry, November 18, 2009 at 4:52 am Link to this comment

By Night-Gaunt, November 18 at 6:19 am #

The “article” is regard to a link I posted on Nov 15 which is off subject from this post but in response to ardees request.  I believe the original subject matter was about the organ harvesting in New Jersy some months ago.  He can’t get past the title and goes into one of his little fits, I love it.  If you read the post you will understand the conversation.

http://mantiqaltayr.wordpress.com/2009/07/25/jew-jersey/

You see ardee and ITW complain and insult that I am bigoted and hate jews, They don’t understand that I simply don’t have any respect for jews like them and there aren’t many that fit that bill.

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By ardee, November 18, 2009 at 4:28 am Link to this comment

PatrickHenry, November 17 at 7:04 pm #

By ardee, November 17 at 1:48 pm #

The crime is mentioned in the article you moron, why don’t you read it.
**************

Speaking of morons. You may hide behind your ignorance and your anger all you wish. Your bigotry is blatant, apparently to all but you. This is not about the crime, it is about your characterization thereof. Gosh you are a rancid piece of filth.

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By Night-Gaunt, November 17, 2009 at 10:19 pm Link to this comment

PatrickHenry WTF are you talking about? What crime is that? One that is actually on the books that is not our lassaize fair live if pay, or die if not, “health care” system. So why don’t you copy and paste for us will ya? Stop calling people names when yours is right now—-shit.

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By PatrickHenry, November 17, 2009 at 3:04 pm Link to this comment

By ardee, November 17 at 1:48 pm #

The crime is mentioned in the article you moron, why don’t you read it.

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By Night-Gaunt, November 17, 2009 at 11:16 am Link to this comment

They’ve got their point of view and no amount of facts will change it. A sad way to live. In a fantasy land that holds such real world violence. Lucky for us it isn’t black haired, brown eyed people just yet!

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By ardee, November 17, 2009 at 5:48 am Link to this comment

The article makes several good points about New Jersy and the jewish inspired crime going on there

An elegant self skewering if ever I’ve seen one. I assume there is a list ,somewhere, (Stormfront HQ perhaps) of crimes attributed to ethnicities…..An interesting trial no doubt, but how does one fit 13% of the population into a defendants chair?

I must wonder at the mind of such as this “person” posting his own condemnations repeatedly.

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By PatrickHenry, November 17, 2009 at 4:41 am Link to this comment

By PatrickHenry, November 16 at 1:13 pm #

Your right ardee, some things bear repeating.

How far gone are these two witless JDL dolts that whine about bigotry and hatred yet in their next sentence dish it out.

Pity the fools.

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By ardee, November 17, 2009 at 3:46 am Link to this comment

Some things bear repeating.


Inherit The Wind, November 16 at 1:36 am #

Patrick Henry doesn’t realize that the “Freudian slip” of calling our Garden State “Jew Jersey” means that his IS exactly the racist I say he is.

ardee, November 16 at 8:47 am #

Inherit The Wind, November 16 at 1:36 am

Those so far gone in bigotry and hatred are unreachable….That this “person” ( I AM being nice) would repost that execrable link shows plainly just how utterly clueless he is…...

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By Inherit The Wind, November 16, 2009 at 8:10 pm Link to this comment

How you guys doing with your c-j? Wait—don’t tell me—that would be TMI.

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By Night-Gaunt, November 16, 2009 at 10:13 am Link to this comment

Amen! (So said the Atheist.)

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By PatrickHenry, November 16, 2009 at 5:13 am Link to this comment

How far gone are these two witless JDL dolts that whine about bigotry and hatred yet in their next sentence dish it out.

Pity the fools.

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By ardee, November 16, 2009 at 4:47 am Link to this comment

Inherit The Wind, November 16 at 1:36 am

Those so far gone in bigotry and hatred are unreachable….That this “person” ( I AM being nice) would repost that execrable link shows plainly just how utterly clueless he is…...

What’s next I wonder, calling African Americans “darkies”......? Oh ‘dem old folks at home!

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By PatrickHenry, November 16, 2009 at 4:36 am Link to this comment

By Inherit The Wind, November 16 at 1:36 am #

It wasn’t my freudian slip and yes I guess you are the self appointed spokesman for worldwide jewry as you apparently own the label maker.

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By Inherit The Wind, November 15, 2009 at 9:36 pm Link to this comment

Patrick Henry doesn’t realize that the “Freudian slip” of calling our Garden State “Jew Jersey” means that his IS exactly the racist I say he is.  “Freudian slip” means you say EXACTLY what you are thinking but didn’t mean to verbalize it.

Of course, I found it rather interesting that as DieDaily described his fantasy of my being forcibly and painfully sodomized, in graphic detail, he seemed to be getting a real hedonistic (and sadistic) pleasure from his imagination.

I’m guessing he got a great, gushing pleasure from this image….UGH! TMI!

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By Night-Gaunt, November 15, 2009 at 2:06 pm Link to this comment

For me I just want it clear in case I misconstrue the less than clear meaning you were putting it too. If it strokes your ego to orgaistic heights, that’s your business. Such a dolt you are and immature in your witless mirth. If I am wrong then say so. I would recommend eating more humble pies to curb that rampant ego of yours. It could be a trouble maker for you if you aren’t careful.

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By PatrickHenry, November 15, 2009 at 9:21 am Link to this comment

ardee, you mean this link regarding a commentator who made a freudian slip?

The article makes several good points about New Jersy and the jewish inspired crime going on there.

What ever did happen to those rabbis and the organ hustle which was going on, I guess it fell off the media map rather quickly.  It it were arabs we would be hearing about it night and day with appearances by jewish congressmen.

http://mantiqaltayr.wordpress.com/2009/07/25/jew-jersey/

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By ardee, November 15, 2009 at 8:58 am Link to this comment

“Are you speaking of your fellow JDL members in your boiler room, those who live off your NJ exit”,

and

“Don’t confuse having a lack of respect for an individual or group for hate of an entire race of people. “

************************************

Of course one must concede that the reference to “Jew Jersey” posted earlier in a link provided by this oh so innocent and “fair minded” person provides conclusive proof of the second comment….In another universe of course.

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By PatrickHenry, November 15, 2009 at 8:34 am Link to this comment

By Inherit The Wind, November 15 at 5:31 am #

We know you vehemently hate Jews, as does Patrick Henry. Now we all know you vehemently hate and FEAR Gay men as well.

Define We.  Are you speaking of your fellow JDL members in your boiler room, those who live off your NJ exit, or are you the self appointed spokesperson of worldwide jewry everywhere?  At your next meeting say hi to those Rothschilds for me, the family everyone pretends doesn’t exist.

Don’t confuse having a lack of respect for an individual or group for hate of an entire race of people.  I do believe there is a caste of jews in society who seek to undermine my freedoms and act against my best interests.

It is through their witless pawns associated to them by religion, ethnicity or culture that the manage to stifle any criticism or debate of their actions by collaberative subterfuge which acts as a shield for their misdeeds.

Things I do hate are Governments, organizations and institutions which seek to undermine my life, liberty and pursuit of happiness as well as arbogate my personal freedoms.

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By Inherit The Wind, November 14, 2009 at 9:31 pm Link to this comment

DieDaily:
I’m sure glad you don’t engage in ad hominem attacks that you so decry….you hypocrite.

I guess that’s where your mind is—accusing people of homosexuality activity, of recipient anal intercourse as, to you, the ultimate insult.

We know you vehemently hate Jews, as does Patrick Henry. Now we all know you vehemently hate and FEAR Gay men as well.

Maybe you secretly desire such action and rather than admit it you project it on others as a defense mechanism.  It’s very typical, you know, of insecure individuals, to attack what they really want as a way to TRY to show the world a false face.

But we are all learning (well, most of us are) that there’s nothing wrong with being Gay, or Lesbian, or Bi, anymore than there is with being Straight.

Since you are engaging in Internet analysis, I might as well too.

(Night-Gaunt: The more you sniff you want “an explanation” the funnier it gets!)

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By ardee, November 14, 2009 at 4:56 pm Link to this comment

ardee, November 14 at 11:19 am #

By Night-Gaunt, November 14 at 2:59 am

Yeah I know..I was speaking to you regarding what he posted….Sheesh, its the damn Vicodan I guess, toothache and dentist unavailable til Monday.

Too cryptic for ya huh?

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By Night-Gaunt, November 14, 2009 at 2:18 pm Link to this comment

Ardee it was DieDaily that wrote that not me! Didn’t you just read it below you? Look again then criticize. Make sure you have the right target in your sites.

As for ITW all he had to do was verify that I was reading his canard correctly. Its ambiguity was such that I wanted him to tell me. He thought my intelligence was insufficient instead of his slovenly usage. I’m sure his ego was boosted for that—-and he still refused to clarify.

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By PatrickHenry, November 14, 2009 at 9:07 am Link to this comment

By DieDaily, November 14 at 7:30 am #

I agree with your interpretation of ITW’s “ditty”, it would explain his criticism of Kucinich’s principled stand.

By Night-Gaunt, November 14 at 6:59 am #

I believe Diedailys metaphor was directed at ITW’s rectum and not yours as ardee’s post would have you believe. 

As current belt holder of ad hominem attacks, ardee frequently finds his head up his own rectum and gets confused on whose posts are whose or in this case whose rectum.

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By ardee, November 14, 2009 at 7:19 am Link to this comment

By Night-Gaunt, November 14 at 2:59 am

I find it rather amazing how some believe they can do a physical examination re: the condition of your rectum, from a few words of rebuttal to another poster. Perhaps he is channeling Bill Frist?

This from a poster who accuses others of ad hominem…..to thine own self be true…..

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By DieDaily, November 13, 2009 at 11:30 pm Link to this comment

Night-Gaunt, he won’t come out and admit to it, but
he’s trying to evince the old relativist canard that
it’s better to compromise with evil than wind up dead
fighting for your ideals. By trivializing it into a
traffic analogy he hopes to equate the quest for
truth to disobeying traffic signs. What he doesn’t
realize is the the traffic signs say “bend over, pull
down your pants and stand ready for penetration”. He
is arguing that it is better to pull down your pants
for the Nazis than to be so foolish as to stand up
for the truth and for freedom, because it naive to
believe that the truth and freedom are viable
options. This is what he is saying. The proof is in
the fact that he refuses to directly answer you
question afterward. His rectum to too dilated and
enflamed.

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By Night-Gaunt, November 13, 2009 at 10:59 pm Link to this comment

Yes I am asking you to explain it to me in plain unambiguous language. It you please? Did I read that little ditty right and that was your point?

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By Inherit The Wind, November 13, 2009 at 7:22 pm Link to this comment

Night-Gaunt, November 13 at 1:36 pm #

And your point is…?
****************************************************
STOP IT! YOU’RE KILLING ME!

(this is just too funny to believe! Is your name really Maj. Frank Burns???)

LMAO!

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By Night-Gaunt, November 13, 2009 at 9:36 am Link to this comment

And your point is…?

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By Inherit The Wind, November 13, 2009 at 4:22 am Link to this comment

Night-Gaunt, November 13 at 1:33 am #

Are you saying it is better to be wrong and alive than dead and correct? Though concerning health you would eventually die earlier than you need to in our culture if things remain the way they are or get far worse.

****************************************************

ROFLMAO!

If you can’t figure out what this little ditty means….well I can’t help you there.

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By KDelphi, November 12, 2009 at 11:40 pm Link to this comment

The very worst of it is that, this will put a hold on real reform for another couple of decades…shame on the Dems.

Just like “cap and trade” will put a hold on carbon reform, Frank’s/Dodd’s watered down bills will make us bailout Wall St again, and, the credit card bill raised everyone’s rates (I knwo that they “fixed” it, but they caused the hike and didnt make it retroactvive—if they had included Sanders amandment, but that would be SOCISLIAT!!

But they are not afraid of the so-called Left—they know that they will take anything, as long as they are still comfortable.

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By Night-Gaunt, November 12, 2009 at 9:33 pm Link to this comment

Are you saying it is better to be wrong and alive than dead and correct? Though concerning health you would eventually die earlier than you need to in our culture if things remain the way they are or get far worse.

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By Inherit The Wind, November 12, 2009 at 7:00 pm Link to this comment

“‘Neath this stone there lies Bill Gray
Who died defending his right-of-way.
He was right, dead right as he sped along.
But he is just as dead as if he had been dead wrong!”

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By Folktruther, November 12, 2009 at 2:56 pm Link to this comment

Oh, we underestand, Diamand, what Obama is up against.  It is difficult for the Dem leadership to sell out their rank and file and still get elected next time.  So obama and the Dems have to give them something, a medical bill of some kind no matter how shitty it is, to get elected.  Since the provisions won’t kick in until 2013, after the presidential election, people won’t understand how they have been swinndled until Obama is elected agaain.  More Change You Can believe In.

Since you identify with the Dem leadership, rather thaqn the American people, and consider Kucinich just as bad as the Gops, which ihe is from the perspecitve of the Dem leaders, you try to stimatize him as “appauling’ and a “dickhead.”  For opposing a bill that will make abortion more difficult for women to obtain.  Your sucking up to the Dem leadership is so bad that even Inherit argees with you.  but not even all the Dem Progs.

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By Night-Gaunt, November 12, 2009 at 10:53 am Link to this comment

If the bill is shit anyway then it should die. If it has been sabotaged then why pass it if it make thing worse? Why do you not see this? That is why such a concept is “wacky” to you, Diamond. Your blindness keeps you from seeing this.

What good is it if you get another cake to replace the rancid one you have? “Its fresh!” you say, then I say “its poison!” You ignore it and harp on the idea that it is a new fresh cake and I am wacko for not wanting it in place of a putrid one. Does this analogy penetrate your cognitive center? Metaphors for our present situation.

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By christian96, November 12, 2009 at 12:11 am Link to this comment

A couple of nights ago I watched a PBS program
titled “Sick Around the World.”  Correspondent
T. R. Reid traveled around the world and studied
health care programs in 5 countries: (1) Great
Britian, (2) Japan, (3) Germany, (4) Switzerland,
and (5) Taiwan.  They all had better programs than
America.  I believe correspondent Reid said America
was 27th among industrialized nations in health
care.  Germany has development a health program
that is non-profit.  The doctors in Germany also
had to take a large cut in compensation.  Thousands
of doctors protested in Berlin about their pay.
I was most impressed by Taiwan.  They appointed a
committee to study health care programs around the
world looking for good ideas.  Then they used these
ideas to design their own health care program.  I
wonder if our government has studied health care
programs around the world to find ideas for developing a system that would be among the elite
for providing health care for all citizens?  Anyone
interested in this program may be able to gather
information from the PBS website.

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By DieDaily, November 11, 2009 at 11:06 pm Link to this comment

If people vote for “their own party’s bill” and not
based on the bill itself…then we are truly lost.
Obama is a demagogue. He SYMBOLIZES one things and is
the opposite thing in deed. That last thing anyone
should do is vote long “part lines”. They parties have
to go.

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By KDelphi, November 11, 2009 at 10:45 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Yes, diamond, the chance of a lifetime, shot to hell. Obama is a leader of no one.

All of those sites I quoted was not A DOCTOR and you dont know what you are talking about. This is NOTHING like the UKs NHS!! Maybe you will have to wait until 2013 to believe me. Speaking of anecdotal evidence, there are 45,000 people (you didnt say whether that child died)that DIE every year. I want that child to keep SCHIP or be NHS not be forced into some “poor pool”—I want her to have bettter than my fricking Medicaid..you do know that this cancels SCHIP after a coupla years, no?

Outraged—No contradition—Kucinich doesnt think we should keep our present “system”—Obama does. No snake oil, but thanks.

Folk—I am looking into it..I hear that a somewhat more decent Dems is poised to take back governorship?? Dont know…you nailed the issue. We are all afraid, but I wont be afraid to say the truth and that is that Obama has sold out the Dems in a huge way. I am too sick to buy into this bullshit.

diamond has always been all about Obama, but Outraged was a Nader supporter???? Just dont get it…

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By diamond, November 11, 2009 at 10:25 pm Link to this comment

And you think Night Gaunt that you won’t lose this one chance in your lifetime if Democrats keep voting against their own leader’s bill? Wacky just doesn’t cover that thinking, especially since the Republicans have basically formed themselves into a solid bloc of no votes and Lieberman the Senator from Outer Space will stay up all night reading out of the phone book if necessary to prevent a vote even being taken in the Senate. Kucinich is not President, although he would dearly like to be, and that’s why he’s pretending he has power he doesn’t have. He’s appealing to his base the same way Bush did and it’s just as cynical from him as it was from Bush.

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By Night-Gaunt, November 11, 2009 at 9:40 pm Link to this comment

You misunderstand our situation and what Obama represents. He isn’t on our side at all. Kucinich isn’t just making “gestures” he is serious as a heart attack. As serious as the Health Insurance behemoths are in being so happy with what so far has been offered. They can’t lose and we still can. But you are immune to seeing this fact. Once we lose this chance we may never have another chance in our life time if at all. Which is why it is being sabotaged as it is. But you are blind to it all Diamond.

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By diamond, November 11, 2009 at 3:38 pm Link to this comment

I don’t think any of you understand what Obama is up against here which is why I find Kucinich’s action so appalling. If this bill gets through the Senate and it will take a miracle for it to do so with Joe Lieberman prepared to filibuster it and no Republicans prepared to vote for it and various traitorous Democrats voting against it for cynical and probably financial reasons, it then has to go back to a committee where more deals will be done. THEN it has to go back to the House of Reps. and then back to the Senate. Does Kucinich have the luxury of making noble gestures? No, he doesn’t but he’s a zealot and can’t help himself.

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By Dave Schwab, November 11, 2009 at 3:01 pm Link to this comment

Last week, House Democrats killed two provisions that could have given us the best health care in the world: single-payer.  But we’ve still got a chance in the U.S. Senate.

??Tell your senators to support single-payer health care by co-sponsoring S. 703, the American Health Security Act:

http://bit.ly/truereformnow

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By born yesterday, November 11, 2009 at 12:50 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

why did Kucinich advise us to vote for Obama?

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By rolmike, November 11, 2009 at 12:29 pm Link to this comment

universal health care as of about 1871 made for a very
heathy germa army where it took 10 foreign soldiers for
every german to kill the german.

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By Michael Shaw, November 11, 2009 at 11:29 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Dennis Kucinich is but one of the scant few members of congress who still has integrity and who still works for “We the People”!

The two party system is a bought and paid for billionaire’s fan club. If this bill (or what’s left of it after the senate removes what little good still exists in it) is passed, all I can tell the so called liberal democrat leaders is good luck in the next two elections!

Like many progressive democrats, my support will only go to real progressive candidates, not pretenders like Pelosi and Reid. If I need to seek them outside of the two party system, then so be it!

Like most,I have long been aware that the GOP is the enemy of the common man. Now we see that for the most part so too are the democrats. If Obama supports this legislative abomination, all I can say is, “Go Ralph and go Dennis!”

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By photoshock, November 11, 2009 at 8:27 am Link to this comment

Nero fiddled while Rome burned! This is exactly what Obama is doing, calling for more of the same and less of what we the people need.
Above and beyond this, the Obama administration is now going to send into Afghanistan, another 40,000 more troops and while this country flounders in the wake of economic disaster, we the taxpayers are footing the bill for the economic recovery of Iraq and Afghanistan.
Where is the justice, when we will not take care of the people of the U.S. and take better care of the people of Iraq and Afghanistan? IN the TOILET!
Rep. D. Kucinich, D. Ohio, rightly so proclaims with a loud voice that enough is enough, and we need to start taking care of the homeless and hungry of our own country. The sick and dying of the US do not receive the care that the same people do in foreign countries, especially Europe and Canada.
If we are the richest country in the world, why then are people starving, homeless, hungry and dying for lack of medical care. Because the greedy bastards that run the corporations the fuel the Military-Industrial-Congressional Complex would rather see you
die than to have health care, food on the table of the hungry and a home for the homeless! No longer is this the country of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, we are now the country of the corporation,
for the corporation, and by the corporation.
Enough said!

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By christian96, November 11, 2009 at 6:58 am Link to this comment

Early this morning I posted the following response
to Wintersport concerning removing power from
politicans following Chris Hedges report “It’s Not
Going To Be O.K.” on February 2, 2009.  I think
it is also relative to this article:

Wintersport—-How are you going to stop giving
power to politicians?  They’ve got coropate money,
CIA, and the Pentagon behind them.  The only one
who can stop them is God and THAT WILL HAPPEN!
Jesus spoke of “the day of judgment” in
Matthew 10:15.  IT IS UPON US!  Zephaniah 1:18,
“Neither their SILVER nor their GOLD shall be able
to deliver them in the day of the Lord’s wrath.”
Ezekiel 7:19, “They shall cast their silver in the
streets, and their gold shall be removed: their
silver and their gold shall not be able to deliver
them in the day of the wrath of the Lord.” I stand
behind my comment at 12:39 a.m. on February 23rd
which is the title of this article, “IT’S NOT GOING
TO BE O.K.!”

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By surfnow, November 11, 2009 at 6:52 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Kuchinich is absolutely right. Even if some kind of health care reform measure makes it through the Senate it will be so watered down it will be useless to any of the Americans who really need the most help. Democrats have to stop wimping out and get us ruthless as conservatives. The minute Obama and Democrats in the House began to facillate and compromise, the Rethugs smelled blood and went on the offensive. The bill should have said universal healthcare- end of story- no compromise- and that it should have been rammed down the Rethug’s throats just like they were able to pass every un-American and destructive bill Bush ever wanted- from war to tax cuts to the Patriot Act.

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By Trailing Begonia, November 11, 2009 at 6:25 am Link to this comment

Of course, Dennis is 100% right.  If this bill passes, the american people will lose once again and the insurance companies will get the bailout they missed out on the first time around.  Not to mention that the Right Wingnuts will also score a huge victory on restricting women’s rights and impossing their dogma and ignorance over the rest of us thinking folks.  This is a no win situation, no matter how one looks at it except, of course, for the insurancde CEOs.

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By Samson, November 11, 2009 at 6:24 am Link to this comment

Why this is a really bad bill.

This bill will make future ‘health reform’, at least the type that helps people and not corporations, much harder if not impossible.

This plan is about to pump billions of public money into the coffers of the health insurance companies.

What this almost certainly means is that the lobbyists for the health insurance companies will have more money and will be better funded in the future.  That’s always the pattern.  Some of this ‘bailout’ money will recycle back into large contributions to more politicians to both protect and expand the giveaways of public money to these corporations.

Any attempt in the future to move towards a ‘public option’ or ‘single-payer’ will face even better funded opposition.  And it will be our own money that will be used against use after this bill.

This is a very bad bill!

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By Samson, November 11, 2009 at 6:20 am Link to this comment

When Democracy Now! gets today’s show online, go watch the interview with Dr. Wallender from Harvard Med School.  Democracynow.org

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By Samson, November 11, 2009 at 5:57 am Link to this comment

PS to below ...

You also of course get “insane cheeleading” from those for whom that’s their job because they work in what’s basically the PR depts of political parties or industries.  Sometimes these are internal depts, and sometimes they are externally hired contractors.

There are billions of dollars at stake.  Its a no-brainer that paying someone a small fee/paycheck to sit on the internet and comment to gain those billions is what they would consider a wise investment.  Spend 10k, get a billion.

Of course, no one would know exactly who’s doing that.  But one should always read threads like this with the knowledge that this is almost certainly occurring.  PR firms advertise the service.

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By Samson, November 11, 2009 at 5:49 am Link to this comment

Most con artists know that most of their cons will never be reported to the police.  That’s because most victims are too ashamed to admit to themselves that they’ve been conned.  And when they do admit it to themselves, they usually want to keep it a secret from others.

That’s where most Democratic voters seem to be today.  They’ve clearly and obviously been conned.  But they don’t want to admit it to themselves.  And when they start to realize it, they don’t want to admit it to others.

So, where anger and retribution upon the con artist should be called for, instead you get insane cheerleading from those who won’t admit they’ve been conned, and mute acceptance from those who don’t want to admit to others they’ve been conned.

The entire Obama primary campaign was obviously a con.  The Democrats were lied to.  A Democratic party that was looking for an alternative to Clinton-ism was given a fake alternative in Obama.  Back in the primaries, Obama positioned himself to the left of Hillary.  But this was obviously a lie.  The lie was obvious to those who notice that it was Wall Street that was funding Obama early in the campaign. 

To me, the Democrats should be angry.  The internal democratic processes of their party, where the party members and voters are supposed to be able to set the direction of the party, were subverted. In a sense, their party was stolen from them.  They thought they were choosing an alternative to Clinton-ism, and one that would be more progressive than the Clintons.  What they got was an administration full of ex-Clinton appointees that continues exactly the same policies of putting our government up for sale to the corporations.  The only thing Obama isn’t selling is the Lincoln bedroom.  Everything else is still for sale.

And most Democrats are unwilling to admit to themselves or others that they were conned.

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By ardee, November 11, 2009 at 5:46 am Link to this comment

I see Rep.Kucinich’s comments re: profit, in a different light than others perhaps.

If one is an adherent of Capitalism then one is ,perforce, a fan of profits. However being an adherent of that system of business does not mean one cannot see when a differing system might be a better idea in certain areas.

When it comes to the business community, well regulated capitalism may be seen as a decent idea. When it comes to Health Care, Welfare, all social services in fact, perhaps Capitalism fails to fit the model.

As to my own belief system, well, I think socialism has its place, and that its place will grow as people get used to it and the onus drops from that word.

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By christian96, November 11, 2009 at 4:57 am Link to this comment

I hope you watched the PBS special last night where
medical coverage in America was compared to
medical coverage in other democracies.  It is so
disheartening to know that my nation, where my
father died, has become what it has, a haven for
corrupt politicians supporting the ruling class.

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By Folktruther, November 11, 2009 at 2:23 am Link to this comment

Kdelphi, I certainly don’t mind answering your questions but can’t do so accuratly because I don’t know and the state budget is in the midst of a meltdown.  You’re welcome to come out and stay with out for a couple of days to see for yourself.  When I said the houses are cheap, I meant relative to what they have been.

It seems like the Dem commenteers are afraid to think the simple truth about politial and social reality under Obama.  They don’t want to know they are being sold out by the Obama regime.  The feeling seems to be ‘lets all unite under Obama to help him sell us out successfully.’  It is not a matter of Obama not serving the people, it is matter of Obama, or his handlers,  leading us in the wrong direction.  the Dem progs simply don’t want to know this.

Hell, this bill even makes it more difficult for women to get aobortions; and its a DEM bill.  That’s why Diamand called a courageous and honest man like Kucinich a ‘dickhead’, a vulgarity not typical of him.  He has to discredit honest truthers because he doesn’t want to hear the truth, nor anybody else
as well.

Obama is continuing Bush’s policies on war, economic inequality, destitution ,the destruction of the climate, and cultrual barbarism, extending them to get the Dems to support them.  This bill is a step backwards, incresing the profit and power of the insurance companies.  But the commenteers who identify with the Dem leadership, Obama, Pelosi, and Reid, etc , rather than more Progressive leaders. who themselves strategically serve a Con role in the power system, simply attack the left under the pose that it is serving the right.

The intellectual dishonesty is partially motivated by fear, the fear that there is NO solution with the American power system.  And their fears are justified; there isn’t.  As Xntrk says, things are going to get worse, and the Dem lemmings don’t want to know it.

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By Outraged, November 11, 2009 at 12:08 am Link to this comment

Re: KDelphi

Your comment: “There is absolutely no valid reason—except for political corruption and cowardice—to delay the widespread adoption of single-payer at this point.”

I agree.  I would also postulate it is more of the former than the latter. What now…?  Anyone and everyone…. feel free, just walk in and clean up that little “matter”.  Again, I agree with diamond.  It is not as simple as you make it sound.  If you or ANYONE has a great idea regarding fixing “the matter”, America is all ears.

Otherwise…...grab a mop.  Help out, don’t make it worse than it already is…!

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By Outraged, November 10, 2009 at 11:25 pm Link to this comment

Re: KDephi

Ask yourself.  What is Rep. Kucinich saying in this excerpt.

When health insurance companies deny care or raise premiums, co-pays and deductibles they are simply trying to make a profit. That is our system.

Clearly, the insurance companies are the problem, not the solution.”

The two premises, “kinda” conflict….don’t they?  On the one hand, it appears that Kucinich feels that insurance companies are “simply trying to make a profit” (as if perfectly fine).  Yet directly afterward he claims, “the insurance companies are the problem”.  That’s politics.  Kucinich is a politican, therefore he knows politics.  This DOES NOT MEAN he is a “bad guy”.  The fact that he is a Dem does not mean that he is a “bad guy”.  Is he right?  Yes, on both counts….. think about it.

Your comment:  “The only people I talked to who are happy with Obama are “moderates” (like Blue Dogs) Whether people “like him” is hardly the point, or, more precisely, it was the point far too much of the time. As you can see from recent elections, the “democrats’ that thet DNC thought they had won with Obama are not Dems at all, but, merely LIKE Obama—they think he’s “cool”—thats hardly a lasting coalition…..most Liberals and INdependents are just not buying this.”

Regarding your first sentence, a couple of things… firstly, if I were a Republican (traditional) during the last election, I would have ran as a Dem.  Mainly because Repubs were not likely to be elected but also because I would have wanted to disassociate myself from the crazy fringe.  This translates then as, “Dem moderates”.  Most likely these are Repubs in cognito(sp?).  That’s my take.

Regarding your second point. Whether The People like Pres. Obama is PRECISELY the point.  I don’t know what else to say.  Absolutely, it matters.

Regarding your subsequent comments.  The situation is more complex than you admonish.  The country was certainly in dire straits upon Pres. Obama’s Inauguration.  To disregard this is foolishness in my opinion.  I think they’ve done a good job under incredibly trying circumstances, but we’re not there yet.  Pres. Obama has stated this and I agree.  This is paramount, yet some who’ve not recognized the severity of the “other reality” suddenly become the harshest of critics.  I disagree.  It will take time, a lot of work and a great deal of goodwill.  But yes, I hope upon hope, it works…. on the other hand, I have very grievous concerns should we, as citizens fail.  One thing I WON’T do is help to see America’s demise because of some supposed “correctness” given what I feel is our true dire reality overall.  This is 2009 not 1968 the outward game has changed…. and the current Repubs are not your daddy’s “buick”.

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By diamond, November 10, 2009 at 10:15 pm Link to this comment

Kdelphi, you quote the views of a DOCTOR. And have you also checked up on Dracula and how he’s liking his job at the blood bank? One story says it all. A man was working in America as a well-paid professional, although he was not an American. He had an African American housekeeper who obviously was an American citizen. On the same day the housekeeper’s son fell on a concrete path and fractured his skull and the well-paid foreign professional who had excellent health cover’s daughter also fell and split her lip. The African American child sat in the ER for two days with a fractured skull before a doctor saw him. The well paid professional’s daughter got immediate medical attention and the doctor advised the man to take his daughter to a plastic surgeon in case her pretty lip might get a scar. Of course the costs of her treatment were prohibitive and I can assure you, you would find very few doctors in America who want any oversight into their outrageous and bankruptcy- inducing fees. And the idea of a public health system sends shivers down their spines. In Britain the doctors resisted the National Health Service up to the moment it was introduced. The doctors are not your friends on this. More importantly you need to ask if Obama can’t get this through, what bill on health care can he get through? Kucinich seems to think he lives in France. He doesn’t. They don’t have Joe Lieberman in France.

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By Outraged, November 10, 2009 at 9:52 pm Link to this comment

Re: Folktruther

Your comment:  “Let’s hear it for truthdig.  they published an honest and corageous critique of this bill midst all the other truth pimps they publish.  Kucinich does the best he can, given that he is a Dem.  Truthdig has a long way to go.  but a journey of a thousand miles….”

The same could easily be said of you.

In other words:  Let’s hear it for Folktruther.  He made an honest and courageous attempt to qualify a DEM midst all the other BS pimp comments he makes.  Folktruther does the best he can, given that he is an ideologue.  Folktruther has a long way to go.  But the journey of a thousand miles…”

“Folktruther” why do you frequent TD when you consistently claim such contempt for it.  I certainly don’t frequent sites I have contempt for, the elephant in the room is….Why are you here….?  Validate your premise.

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By KDelphi, November 10, 2009 at 9:47 pm Link to this comment

Outraged—do not take this as some type of “challenge”, ok? But what the hell is Obama going to do when he loses the House in 2010, as he surely will? If he wanted a real health care plan, why did he do that useless stimulus? (I know his adminis says it worked, but it cant be permanent) And, do you really trust Bloomberg?

The only people I talked to who are happy with Obama are “moderates” (like Blue Dogs) Whether people “like him” is hardly the point, or, more precisely, it was the point far too much of the time. As you can see from recent elections, the “democrats’ that thet DNC thought they had won with Obama are not Dems at all, but, merely LIKE Obama—they think he’s “cool”—thats hardly a lasting coalition…..most Liberals and INdependents are just not buying this.

And, beyond his politics, although I have met him several times, I dont care at all if Kucinich is a nice guy or talks nicely,. I care about results. Our politics have become much too much about a certain person or even a certain party that people seem to be willing to die for. But, 45,000, until 2013, and probably for some time after, will die.

Dont you think that progressives and Independents have a right to be angry about this bill?

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By KDelphi, November 10, 2009 at 9:26 pm Link to this comment

Here is the truth about the bill:
“The position of The Greanville Post and Cyrano’s Journal Online has always been that (a) the Obama health “reform” plan was a cruel con job on a scandalously confused American electorate, and that (b) given that anything Congress passes this time will stick around for a generation at least, it was always better to defeat this bill and fight on to pass an authentic single-payer based reform (”Medicare for All’) at some time in the near future, rather than crow about a pseudo victory. The main issue with this Obama-style reform is that it not only leaves the private health insurance industry at the center of health care services in the United States, but that it has the audacity to amplify its role. In this specific regard, we’re happy to see that Dr. Marcia Angell, a respected physician and public educator shares our views. Unfortunately we part ways on a critical point concerning her recommendations. We favor the immediate adoption of medicare for all (single-payer); she over a period of years or even decades, which we regard as unjustifiable. Maybe she feels that gradualism is the only way to go. We disagree. There is absolutely no valid reason—except for political corruption and cowardice—to delay the widespread adoption of single-payer at this point. While we’re on the topic, it bears mentioning that many liberals and liberaloids in the media, including figures like Keith Olbermann, who has often endorsed progressive views, have totally failed to grasp the implications of this betrayal, or simply lacked the gonads to oppose it openly. Perhaps yielding to a knee-jerk liberal response (”If Limbaugh and Beck attack it I’ll defend it”), their battle on behalf of this plan is at the moment myopic and probably downright stupid. We scarcely need to express here our disgust with Barack Obama and the Democratic Party leadership, the originators and real culprits behind this stinking mess.  True to form, they have behaved alternatively like morons, cowards or crooks.”—Patrice Greanville, for the editors

http://www.greanvillepost.com/?p=1464&cpage=1#comment-76

Dr Marcia Angell’s suggestions are there, too, which would be better than this piece of crap.

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By Outraged, November 10, 2009 at 9:19 pm Link to this comment

After reading through the comments, it is easy to see that most AMERICANS would not want THESE commenters in charge of their healthcare.  The current plan from the House is just that, the one proposed by the House.  The level of vitrol and outright stupidity doesn’t remind one of Rep. Kucinich, it reminds me of something much more insidious.

“Nov. 9 (Bloomberg)—Insurers such as WellPoint Inc. and Blue Cross Blue Shield and drugmakers are redoubling their efforts to fight proposals to overhaul the U.S health-care system, adding another obstacle as legislative hurdles mount.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aIf.qcebZQ5Q

The rest my comment is directed toward the Republicans posting here, excuse me…. of course I mean “Obama-haters”.  I gotta tell ya’.... WE, THE PEOPLE like Pres. Obama.  We know he isn’t perfect, but neither are WE THE PEOPLE.  We also understand that he doesn’t have a magic wand, just like WE THE PEOPLE.  We know that bothers you, but we don’t care….. we like Pres. Obama.

He holds his own, IN SPITE OF THE LIES.  From RealClearPolitics,
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html#polls

Nothing is yet written in stone.  Call your senators.

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By KDelphi, November 10, 2009 at 8:43 pm Link to this comment

FT—Does Calif still have Medical or has Schwarrzenegger de-funded it? How cheap are houses? Hope you dont mind me asking…

Aarky—probably useles, but ask them to support Sen Sanders S.703:

http://sanders.senate.gov/

The Bill, the “American Health Security Act of 2009,” Senate Bill 703, is the first piece of single-payer legislation introduced in the Senate since the 2002 death of Minnesota Senator Paul Wellstone. Under its provisions, patients could seek care from a doctor or hospital of their choice under a federally funded plan administered by the states. Unlike reform proposals being floated by Senators Baucus and Kennedy, S. 703 would eliminate the role of private health insurance companies in healthcare delivery, producing administrative savings in excess of $400 billion per year.”So long as we remain dependent on private insurance companies,” said Senator Sanders, we’re never going to have quality, cost effective healthcare for all Americans.” S. 703 would also provide resources to train additional primary care physicians and fully fund community health centers, which many rural Vermont residents depend upon.”

It would apply to states first..I know its crap, but wtf…Canada is really tired of
“medical refugees” and you have to pass the civil service test in French…Mon français est terrible, même si le Canada est belle! Hell, I couldnt pass…

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By mikeSchoch, November 10, 2009 at 8:34 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

So many words, so much hand wringing, so much analysis. It is absolutely no wonder why we are in the sad and completely bent-over position we are in today. The armchair analysts argue amongst themselves while Congress burns, the words of a representative of the people: turned into chaff and scattered on the wind. No amount of criticism, sarcasm, triangulation, speculation, demonization, rationalization, trivialization, or prognostication can make the current healthcare reform process any easier or simpler to accept. We have been sold out by our so-called representatives in favor of big campaign cash provided by corporations who want favors. Americans have been conditioned and once again duped by the likes of Nancy Pelosi, Barack Obama, even Bill Clinton is back for a reprise in favor of big business. The US is ruled by money and you will either accept it, fight it, or chatter like an imbecile. Unfortunately, many liberals do all three, and that will never work out. Fortunately, the future has yet to be decided.

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By Samson, November 10, 2009 at 8:31 pm Link to this comment

It was always a sure bet that a thread like this would have paid employees of probably both the Democratic party and the health insurance industry in here trying to spin public opinion.  There’s billions of dollars of public and private money to be grabbed here. They are not going to miss a trick.

Its well documented that PR firms sell that service.

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By Inherit The Wind, November 10, 2009 at 8:28 pm Link to this comment

Ed Harges, November 10 at 12:57 pm #

re:By paul bass, November 8 at 11:13 pm:

Yes, Paul; the fact that Inherit the Wind can seriously call Kucinich a “lunatic” and
a leftist extremist equivalent in his lunacy to Michelle Bachman quite neatly
excuses us from having to consider seriously anything further ITW may have to
say.

**********************************************

Great! Fabulous! That’s the best thing you’ve ever done for me, EH!

Now I won’t have to waste time on your hateful, bigoted, idiotic, anti-semitic bullshit responses!

Thanks, Pal!

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By FRTothus, November 10, 2009 at 8:18 pm Link to this comment

EXCELLENT POST DieDaily (November 10 8:07pm)!!! Do you suspect, as I do, that the reason we hear so little from “the left” is a) there really is no such thing, as we do not have a Labor Party nor any part of the one-party state that represents the humane, which is to say, the majority perspective, on the proper role of government (as Eleanor Roosevelt put it so well “Government exists for one purpose: To make things better for all people”)?; b) that the inclination of most people is just to be left alone?; c) That people have been taught that resistance is futile, that they are on their own, and in effect, owe their lives to the Company Store?  That they have learned that, no matter what, nothing is going to change, the tables are tilted, the game is rigged, so what’s the point in fighting it?  We all know we’d be singled out, and would pay a heavy personal price, with no organized help to come to our rescue. We know that if we go on strike, the State and the MSM will invariably take the side of the owners.  We know that if we take to the streets, the state will not be there to protect us, but there’d be dogs and hoses and tear gas and plenty of goons wearing badges ready to bust open some skulls.  There’s certainly a minority who hold the lion’s share of what there is to be had, and they want to “maintain that disparity”  and, as John Galbraith said, “People of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage.”  Though the working man has had it pounded into his head that there are no classes in America, the upper class certainly knows they are upper class.  They are very class-conscious, well-financed (by definition), and see it in their own interest to provide plausible justification for selfishness.  They have a mission, for they have a common enemy:  “[The ruling elites] know who their enemies are, and their enemies are the people, the people at home and the people abroad. Their enemies are anybody who wants more social justice, anybody who wants to use the surplus value of society for social needs rather than for individual class greed, that’s their enemy.”
So this Bill, coupled with more billions for killing (such hypocrisy!) forces even more burden upon each of us, socializing the costs, ensuring the health of the insurance companies’ profits.  There can’t be a “peace dividend” if there’s no peace.  God forbid the people should be allowed the benefit of their own money.  Then we might actually approach a meaningful democracy, and that simply cannot be allowed to occur.


“When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint.
When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist.”
Archbishop Helder Camara, Brazilian liberation theologist

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By DieDaily, November 10, 2009 at 4:07 pm Link to this comment

K-Delphi, thanks for the well supported points and
informative links. Night-gaunt, well said. Obama is
hiding behind LEFT COVER. The illusionary right
attacks him (incorrectly) as being a Socialist (he’s
a corporatist which is more a sort of fascist). These
stupid attacks from the far right only entrench and
embolden his cult following on the left, for it
reinforces the misperception that he is on the left.
Of course he is not. He is a war monger, a police
state implementer, a corporate agent. The way to go
after Obama is point these things out. Any attack on
Obama should contain an attack on Bush and the
Neocons, because the policies of the two are actually
identical. We must make it harder and harder for the
slumbering masses to pretend that there is a
meaningful left vs. right struggle.

Webster Griffin Tarpley, reminds us what fascism is
defined as (my paraphrase): The charismatic leader at
the head of a cult of personality carrying out the
agenda of wealthy industrialists and financiers. Now
that’s a perfect fit. Attacking Obama from the right
is completely useless. We have to point out that the
left has been completely anesthetized and neutralize.
Where are the peace movements? (Chirp chirp chirp).
Where are the single-payer hardliners? (Chirp chirp
chirp) Where are the civil rights activists? (etc.)
The wars have escalated and will expand. Wall street
has escalated it’s carpet bagging and that will
expand. Our civil rights have been flattened even
more than Bush dreamed of, and they will be trodden
even more yet. The prison economy is blooming, and
full of millions of pot smokers while banskters thumb
their noses as the criminal justice system. Where is
the left? (Chirp chirp chirp).

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By Folktruther, November 10, 2009 at 3:58 pm Link to this comment

you’re quite right, Christian, it sounds like age discrimination.  It shouldn’t take very long to find a lawyer who will do a class action suit against it, on contingency.  A simple way to do some good in the world.

You might consider California as a place to live.  there are plenty of religious dingbats to keep you company, they’re being so thick on the ground that you can’t throw a brick without hitting a rellgious loony of one kind or another.  Houses are pretty cheap now and I would be willing to help answer any questions you might have.

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By KDelphi, November 10, 2009 at 2:25 pm Link to this comment

In case anyone is interested in which the (true) medical profession thinks of this bill: (not the AMA)

Calif Nurses Union:
http://www.calnurses.org/media-center/press-releases/2009/november/statement-by-cna-nnoc-executive-director-rose-ann-demoro-on-the-house-bill-on-healthcare.html

“...Months ago, the Obama administration pre-determined this outcome by ruling out the most comprehensive, most cost effective, most humane reform, single payer, or an expanded and improved Medicare for all. Single payer proponents were shut out of White House forums, blocked from most hearings in the Senate, and single payer amendments stripped from the final House bill.  Yet, through grassroots pressure, single-payer advocates forced consideration by the House of an improved Medicare for all until the very end.

But nurses and other single payer proponents who have heroically fought for this reform for years will continue the campaign, next in the Senate, where single payer amendments are expected to be introduced. The scene will also shift to state capitols, where vibrant single payer movements remain active and will escalate.

Proponents of comprehensive reform will never be silent, and never stop working for the real change we most desperately need.”

Donna Smith, who was in the movie “Sicko”:
http://www.pnhp.org/news/2009/november/how_much_lying_will_.php

“..So long as they are passing laws on the federal level that allow 45,000 people to die every year in this nation because they have not been allowed to receive the healthcare that was available to those with the means to pay for it, these folks have no claim to any right to life at all. And so long as they are passing laws on the federal level that allow me and millions of others to go bankrupt even with the health insurance they are forcing us all to buy, they have no claim to protecting my hard work and effort to achieve my own American dream.

Tell the truth, at least. This is all about protecting power and re-election and the money that fuels that process. Damn the people. They’ll just plan to buy us back to the polls with the crappy campaign ads that will commence shortly after the last chorus of “Jingle Bells” in December. And the insurance companies are going to have a very happy holiday season indeed.”

And PNHP (Physicians for Natl Health Plan):
http://www.pnhp.org/news/quote_of_the_day.php

eHealth is up and running to SELL YOU a plan!! bravo dumbass Dems. And, never mind blaming Kucinich—the Senate Blue Dogs will have at whatever part of it you think you like, but you conveniently wont know for sure till 2013…nice for Obama.

diamond, you are the disgrace. Have a Merry Xmas till 2013, during which 200,000 people. The big corporations certainly have done a great job at convincing people like you that that any loss of profit for them is a loss lf “freedOM” for you. When the Dems tear it up in the Senate, they deserve it, but we dont. And Pbama deserves to lose in 2012 (if he ever deserved to win), but he wont because the GOP will run someone ridiculous and you guys will play along again. What a disappointment this must be for progressive Af Ams!

Glenn Ford, Black Agenda Report “Obama Hustles the Public for Greedy Private Insurers”
http://www.blackagendareport.com/?q=content/obama-hustles-public-greedy-private-insurers

Everybody admits its “not all we wanted it to be”—WTF?! Youd think we were asking for something extraordinary!! EVERY CIVILIZED NATION ON EARTH HAS IT BUT US! Jesus, you Dems are stupid!

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By paterack5, November 10, 2009 at 11:48 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I say shut it down , people will die, but their doing that every day anyhow, we don’t need a piece of law that makes things worse, shut the process down, let the capitalist run it all the way into the ground, when the people wake up, then and only then can we do anything for the good of our beloved country. . .if America is too dumbed down to make even this small step, then maybe we really don’t deserve our great land. . .

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By Night-Gaunt, November 10, 2009 at 10:32 am Link to this comment

We are being double dealed in this from the propagandist perspective. First Obama is like Clinton, only better (no skeletons), is the other face of the crypto-fascists in their long term plan to destroy our secular Republic and replace it with a corporate theocracy. He continues as a bridge between the more obvious ones and get things done they would have had more trouble accomplishing. He is on their side but they attack him as if he was Kucinich which he is far from being. [Is we saw Kucinich was destroyed as a candidate because he would have brought change away from our fascist slide.] He sounds good but he is bad to the bone. He is the banality of evil, bland almost as he is attacked for having beliefs he really doesn’t display! There is a reason why the Health Insurance behemoths have been mum on this so far—-they are getting what they want. They don’t want to jinx it by advertising it, even with a negative spin. A better deal for them even if they must carry more people as long as the taxes are used to pay for them they are fine. Their stratospheric profit margins will remain as will their bonuses.

Remember the Clintons just wanted to include more of the smaller health insurance co. in the scheme but the big 5 didn’t like it so they called them “socialist” and the CMSM portrayed it that way, and as Single Payer (it wasn’t) & still does.

But why attack Obama if he is doing their bidding? Because the myth of partisanship still must exist for the time being. There are plenty of those in their ranks who are just as fooled as the populace at large and go after him hammer and tongs as if he was a Marxist! See what happens? He looks actually more liberal than he really is as he lets us twist in the wind and the real constituents like Etna and Blue Cross get what they want and we can rot for all they care. We see the same thing with Wall Street bald faced right now.

Once the left has lost through internal sabotage they will come in and say “we told you so” and then go about trying to get their wish list implemented of turning everything over to the free enterprise model they know and make money so well with. By one way or another they will because they are dedicated and ruthless. The present economic debacle is part of it. You can believe that when it is over and they are in charge and the Bill of Rights is dead the corruption will stop. Why? Because they set it loose to destroy the Republic but they want their empire to be to last for a very long time. Remember China? They hang their corrupt members. They will do that here too and fast. Corruption weakens any organization and they know it which is why they used the natural tendency in others to accomplish it.  [Only a few need know the real reasons behind these actions at the top.]

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By Voodooeconomix, November 10, 2009 at 10:25 am Link to this comment

Party Politics may be changed forever by Obama. He may cause what hasn’t happened since Black Americans obtained the vote. His Presidency may have the effect of splitting the Black vote.  Historically Blacks have always voted together impervious to class divisions. His presidency could be divisive because of race and class. No white candidate could engender the kinds of passions in the Black community that a gifted charismatic figure like Obama can. If a Black Democrat with majorities in the House and Senate ends up governing from the right he could split the black vote. He could enrage half the Black vote who might see him as a reincarnation of Uncle Tom in a cooler hipper 21st century way serving the White Capitalist Banking System. The other half of the Black vote might defend him against that kind of a charge believing to the end that he is a good man trying his best if only his hands weren’t tied be the power structure. One half of the community might call the other half hopelessly naive. The other half of the community might accuse the other side as old thinking. One half may reject the social justice history of the Black community and try to truly assimilate into Modern American Capitalism. This could possibly leave the black voting block which has historically voted 90 % and more for Democrats open for some real shaving off if the right type of Republican or Independent comes along.

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By Ouroborus, November 10, 2009 at 9:48 am Link to this comment

ardee, November 10 at 9:53 am #

Whew; glad to hear that. Sorry, but I thought you
might be caving in.
I’m sure the, I don’t even know what to call them
anymore, others, are trying to destroy Obama. If they
can; then he’s the wrong man for the job. I don’t
think his success is a one issue thing.
On another note; those other ones (?) have plenty of
problems with identity issues. They’re a fractured
mess; like a bottle dropped and shattered everywhere.
Kucinich is one together, not bought human, genuinely
doing his best for his constituents and the reast of
America and most Americans a just too damn stupid to
recognize an actual honest politician. I support him
in this monumental

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By Ed Harges, November 10, 2009 at 8:57 am Link to this comment

re:By paul bass, November 8 at 11:13 pm:

Yes, Paul; the fact that Inherit the Wind can seriously call Kucinich a “lunatic” and
a leftist extremist equivalent in his lunacy to Michelle Bachman quite neatly
excuses us from having to consider seriously anything further ITW may have to
say.

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By Jolimont, November 10, 2009 at 8:00 am Link to this comment

Something is usually better than nothing. BUT, forcing
everyone to buy health insurance without offering real
cost reductions (such as a public option) is a racket.
Thank you Mr. K for standing up for what’s right.

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By malakyah, November 10, 2009 at 7:19 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Being from the deep rascist South and Black ,son of sharecropper who’s father was a Slave of rich White landowners .The Gentiles are the New Slaves first generation can’t you feel the yoke?

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By ardee, November 10, 2009 at 5:53 am Link to this comment

Ouroborus, November 10 at 8:43 am

I trust you didnt interpret my comment as an endorsement of this putrid bill…..only discussed motives.

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By Ouroborus, November 10, 2009 at 4:43 am Link to this comment

ardee, November 10 at 7:42 am #
The Republicans understand, even if you do not, that
Obama’s health care legislation is the lynch pin of
his first term in office. If they defeat that they
can presumably defeat him in 2012.
==============================================
You may be correct; but, this bill, in it’s present
form discriminates against women (hell, it makes
being a woman a pre-existing condition), guarantees a
captive clientèle and it locks in expensive
(important) drugs to NEVER being able to be
manufactured as generic. This is a huge give away to
the insurance industry.
If that’s what it takes to get Obama elected again;
then it’s a price too far: and America is finished.
Because “they” will have won the whole enchilada.
We’ll never have a chance at any semblance of a
quality life.
Lastly; if Obama can’t do this right then the hell
with him, period.

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By JohnMcD, November 10, 2009 at 3:43 am Link to this comment

Go Kucinich! I don’t think we necessarily need a pure single-payer system that restricts the availability of private insurance, but we do need a strong public option that isn’t limited in terms of who can enroll.  For basic medical services, a profit-based model of insurance sends the wrong sort of incentive and invites to many middle-men, so it wouldn’t be long before people chose the cheaper nonprofit versions. 

The House, by limiting the public option and still forcing everyone to buy something, has effectively delivered a 100% captive market for a few big powerhouse insurance companies that can already afford to compete on the national scale. 

Instead of confronting the special interest groups and cliques that take advantage of society’s greater interest, we’ve turned in to the kind of nation that goes out of its way to pay them off in every way they could dream of.

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By ardee, November 10, 2009 at 3:42 am Link to this comment

The Republicans understand, even if you do not, that Obama’s health care legislation is the lynch pin of his first term in office. If they defeat that they can presumably defeat him in 2012.

I repeat my citing above because it appears the outraged has a reading or learning disability, or perhaps he just smokes too much weed prior to smearing his feces all over this forum.

How one can interpret my remark to be support for the GOP is known only to that feces smearing chimp I guess.

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By christian96, November 10, 2009 at 2:45 am Link to this comment

My niece was having financial problems in New Hampshire so I told her to move into my house in
Ohio and I would buy a small cond. in Florida. I
hated to leave Ohio.  I had many good friends in
the Rotary Club.  I really like Dennis Kucinich.
He is one of the few people in Washington I trust
and he is from Ohio but Ohio also has it’s share
of political jerks as does every state.  I am on
disability.  Therefore I didn’t have to pay state
income tax in Ohio until I received a letter from
the Ohio Dept. of Taxation informing me that since
I have now reached retirement age my disability
CONVERTS(how do you convert a disability) to
retirement and I am now required to pay state income
tax, in my elderly sick days.  Seems like discrimination because of age to me.  Nothing changed
but my AGE.  So I moved to Florida where I don’t
have to pay a state income tax but I do miss my
friends in Ohio.  This attempt to pass a national
insurance bill to help the little man who is really
suffering will never pass.  There are a few good
men like Dennis Kucinich but the majority serve the
ruling class in America for MONEY.  In the Bible
Jesus said, “You can’t serve God and money?”  Which
one do you think the politicians in Washington
serve?  You got it right! MONEY! And IT AIN’T GOING
TO CHANGE!

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By icepop, November 10, 2009 at 1:48 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

This whole bill panders to corporate welfare as they
cry poor in the midst of a major financial melt down.
This whole affair could have been avoided by making
it a single-payer system that is non-profit with real
tort reform.

Any other argument in favor of this ridiculous bill
is baseless and/or socialistic.

I laugh at the likes of diamond and Outraged who
display nothing but a slavish reliance on a man who
cannot be trusted to provide personal and legal
identification as a US citizen for himself, let alone
work on a problem that the government has no business
even discussing.
You two rely not on facts but on ” feelings”. Not
once have you argued why this “reform” would be
worthwhile from any perspective other than a
political one.

You two are of the same mentality as the rest of the
incompetent mental midgets in DC. Obama IS a loser.
He is NOT interested in what the American people
want. His ratings are waning rapidly.

And I do not care how popular you claim Obama is in
the world. It doesn’t matter. Their opinion does NOT
matter one whit.

75 % of the American people do NOT want this bill to
become law. And if it does. I guarantee there will be
a lot of politicians looking for work after the next
election.

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By Ouroborus, November 10, 2009 at 1:16 am Link to this comment

Night-Gaunt, November 10 at 3:18 am #

Spot on;  Kucinich is one of the few good guys and was
interviewed on Democracy Now (the same link I posted
below) and I no longer think this bill should survive;
DOA it should be. Single payer or we’re screwed yet
again. There must be some really good lube out there;
few complain and few get it.

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By Night-Gaunt, November 9, 2009 at 11:18 pm Link to this comment

”...those who don’t hang together will hang separately. The Republicans always hang together which is why Cheney and Bush and Rumsfeld haven’t been thrown in jail - yet.”Diamond

Then that would make Obama a Republican because he is continuing what they did and support what they did in the past. Isn’t it? So one of them who is fighting all the crypto-fascists is on the wrong side. As for “doing something” he made sure that the Congress would do the wrong thing and continue the rule of the corporate health care system. So you must agree with them and not with the likes of Kucinich who is fighting for me and even you. If a “dick head” is the good fighting the institutional bad then I am too.

Why do you side with the bastards that want us to die for their profit? Just because he is in the minority you shit all over his tireless efforts. Go along to get along? I wonder how many Germans in the 1930’s, Russians in the 1920’s, Japanese, Italians in the 1920’s and the Spanish in the 1940’s also did that same thing? It is happening here and it is so stealthy most still don’t see it or if they do they will not perceive it! You are a good example right here.

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By Outraged, November 9, 2009 at 10:50 pm Link to this comment

Re: Mojogoobers

Your comment:  “As mentioned, Kucinich has the HUGE balls to point this out and gets attacked for not following the Democrat corporate line. The rest of the world shakes it collective head.”

I wouldn’t speak for “the world” unless I had FACTS to back that up.  Your rhetoric is certainly NOT “the worlds” position.

From World Public Opinion:
“WorldPublicOpinion.org, a collaborative research project involving research centers from around the world, is managed by the Program on International Policy Attitudes (PIPA) at the University of Maryland. The survey was conducted between April 4 and June 12, 2009, prior to Obama’s speech in Cairo but subsequent to his Ankara speech.

An average of 61 percent express a lot or some confidence in Obama to do the right thing in world affairs, across the nineteen nations polled (excluding the US). Thirty-one percent say they have not too much or no confidence at all. In 13 nations, a majority or plurality has confidence in Obama; in five nations they do not; one nation is divided. A majority of the American public (70%) also expresses confidence in Obama in world affairs.

No other leader has the confidence of more than an average of 40 percent across the publics polled. For most leaders, more express a lack of confidence than express confidence.”

Re: DieDaily

Your comment: “Your bill is going to kill people not save them, and fleece them to boot.

The mainstream media has inverted the facts and you have swallowed their bait hook line and sinker.”

Sounds like insurance industry BS to me.  Sure, sure…. covering 95%+ Americans is going to “kill people”, explain please.

Also your comment: “The Bill that was passed is the bathwater, the baby had long since been aborted.”

I believe the phrase is “throw the BABY out” with the bathwater.  Your abortion analogy is bizarre on its face.  You are creepy.  Halloween is over, find yourself a real job.

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By Outraged, November 9, 2009 at 9:50 pm Link to this comment

Re: Diamond

Regarding “ardee’s” post, an excerpt:

“You: If the bill is so bad and does nothing to disadvantage the health insurance companies why didn’t the Republicans embrace it with enthusiasm? The truth is Obama actually wants to get something done and the Republicans are just playing politics

“ardee”:  This statement by Diamond illustrates only that starting with a conclusion and then manufacturing to make that conclusion seemingly accurate seems a failure.

The Republicans understand, even if you do not,” (LOL….sorry, couldn’t contain myself)

Me:  Hey diamond, you can trust “ardee” on this….. it seems to me “ardee” knows EXACTLY what Republicans “understand”, if you know what I mean…  That’s my take, does it seem that way to you?  I agree, they’re fighting tooth and nail to defeat this thing.  From Bloomberg:

“Nov. 9 (Bloomberg)—Insurers such as WellPoint Inc. and Blue Cross Blue Shield and drugmakers are redoubling their efforts to fight proposals to overhaul the U.S health-care system, adding another obstacle as legislative hurdles mount.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aIf.qcebZQ5Q

The rest my comment is directed toward the Republicans posting here, excuse me…. of course I mean “Obama-haters”.  I gotta tell ya’.... WE, THE PEOPLE like Pres. Obama.  We know he isn’t perfect, but neither are WE THE PEOPLE.  We also understand that he doesn’t have a magic wand, just like WE THE PEOPLE.  We know that bothers you, but we don’t care….. we like Pres. Obama.

He holds his own, IN SPITE OF THE LIES.  From RealClearPolitics,
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html#polls

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By DieDaily, November 9, 2009 at 9:00 pm Link to this comment

Inherit The Wind

The truth is never a hopeless position.

The Bill that was passed is the bathwater, the baby
had long since been aborted.

The only victories are moral victories, they are not
“useless”.

Your bill is going to kill people not save them, and
fleece them to boot.

The mainstream media has inverted the facts and you
have swallowed their bait hook line and sinker.
Please consult the bill. Please read about the facts.
Since your feelings (no doubt well intentioned) and
the bald facts (as matters of record!!!) are utterly
at odds, ought you not try to look into your feelings
rather than “conform” the facts to them? Of course,
looking into the facts could not otherwise than
automatically change your feelings…so please get to
work researching. Not quoting favorite mouthpieces…
but researching directly.

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By Inherit The Wind, November 9, 2009 at 8:51 pm Link to this comment

Night-Gaunt, November 9 at 4:57 pm #

I must admit InheritTheWind you do have some gall attacking one of the few real Democrats fighting for us. The only thing he might occasionally obstruct is the fascists move to defund us while funding themselves to the tune of billions every year. Ron Paul would accelerate it and Dennis Kucinich would do what he could to obliterate it. Yes damn the few who fight and claim they are the enemy. Quite a usable tactic on the ignorant. Just won’t wash here. Better find Little Green Footballs which is more your style of forum.

************************************************

Yeah, that’s me, the guy with a lot of gall!  Of course, DK helping SABOTAGE his party again and again and again doesn’t have gall—or does he?

How is constantly being for hopeless positions “fighting for” me?  It’s just posturing for his next quixotic run for the presidency.

The funny thing is, I DO want a single payer system—I see that it works.  But, as has been pointed out, to throw out the baby with the bathwater as Mr. Kucinich, and 38 other DINOs would do, is to condemn many thousands to die in AMERICA that don’t have to die.  How many multiples of all the soldiers lost in Iraq will America lose just THIS year because they are uninsured?

Republicans, damn their hides, at least know enough to stick together—and their whips are downright vicious about maintaining.  That is how they got their hideous agendas through during the Bush years.

But if your opponent out-battles you, even in politics, you need to learn their tactics, because “moral victories” don’t count for shit.

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By Ouroborus, November 9, 2009 at 6:19 pm Link to this comment

Well, the war on women is alive and well; especially
poor women. That monster Stupak got his abomination
through. Democracy now has a great segment with Jane
Hamsher which nicely covers just what a piece of shit
bill it really is;

http://www.democracynow.org/

Maybe it actually needs to die; it’s an abomination and
another slap in the face to the U.S. citizens.
Unbelievable!!!!

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By Ouroborus, November 9, 2009 at 5:48 pm Link to this comment

Given Americans propensity too work against their own
self interest and their ridiculous rabid reaction to
words like “socialism” just shows the depth of
ignorance in society.
At this point they’ll/you’ll be lucky to get any bill
through the senate. Corporations have spent hundreds
of millions of dollars to defeat anything that
doesn’t guarantee them the millions of new customers.
This is criminal morally if not legally.
So, get a bill passed no matter how bad it is and
then work like hell to make something good out of it.
You guys just boggle my mind in your self defeating
behavior and the rest of the world must be shaking
it’s head at the pathetic way you hurt the people
most in need.

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