ardee, November 3 at 8:18am,

blah.

MarthaA, November 2 at 3:35 pm

Once again you channel your alter ego, Thomas…Would it not be less blatant that you two are the same poster if you chose different words and phrases to express exactly the same viewpoint?

Have you purchased all the bullets you will need to murder the multitudes woo disagree with you?

ardee, November 2 at 8:42am,

blah.

Accusations sans proof makes you a far worse example of what is wrong with this sort of “political"debate than even your comment regarding putting bullets in the heads of those with whom you disagree.

ardee, November 1 at 7:45am,

Sad for you, ardee, not knowing the difference between Liberal and Conservative——Do you know your Right hand from your Left hand? If so, that’s a start, you may think they are both the same, but they are different, even both sides of your face are different. Equilibrium requires balance, not perfection.  I’m trying to educate you, ardee.

MarthaA, November 1 at 2:54 am

Accusations sans proof makes you a far worse example of what is wrong with this sort of “political"debate than even your comment regarding putting bullets in the heads of those with whom you disagree.

You charge everyone who fails to buy into your insane rants and Twilight Zone political theorizing as the “enemy” yet you are the enemy of something far more important, truth.

Accuse away hag, what weight do your ravings carry? Share th espace under that rock with Outraged, yet another who lies and runs a away.

ardee, October 31 at 6:32pm,

Amorphous equivocating Blah.

MarthaA answer: That’s real big of you, ardee.  Being a lumpen-proletariat truck driver follower of the Conservative Far Right.  Now, if the Conservative Far Right Republican elite moguls, banker moguls and insurance moguls, etc. saw it the same way, everything would be cool, but they don’t, not even a little bit.

*****************************

It must be noted that you are one giant piece of crap, Martha. For the umpteenth time ( I counted) I ask you to prove your bullshit or shut the fuck up. One single cut and paste from any of my posts showing a leaning towards conservatism or Republican party sympathies.

You are a fool and a liar, though my belief that you are insane would also account for such horrible behavior too….

ardee, October 31 at 11:15am,

ardee said: “I, and many of those I respect on this forum, defend the rights of the minority to the nth degree.”

MarthaA answer: That’s real big of you, ardee.  Being a lumpen-proletariat truck driver follower of the Conservative Far Right.  Now, if the Conservative Far Right Republican elite moguls, banker moguls and insurance moguls, etc. saw it the same way, everything would be cool, but they don’t, not even a little bit.

The Conservative EXTREME do not think anyone, especially a truck driver, should have any rights, the only ones the Conservative EXTREME think should have rights is the Conservative EXTREME and their toadies.  The Liberal Left does not in any way have to protect the Conservative EXTREME, the Conservative EXTREME is overwhelmingly more than qualified and empowered to protect themselves, they don’t need you, ardee—or any lumpen-proletariat, but they are not going to tell you that. None of them just fell off the turnip truck.

The Conservative EXTREME minority Lions actually think the individuals of the proletariat majority Sheep to be weak minded, foolish chattel and commodities; when lumpen-proletariat Sheep, like yourself, concern theirself with protecting the Conservative Lions at the expense of the Liberal Sheep.—-  Do you think the Conservative Lions would trust you to protect them,ardee, when you don’t have sense enough even stand up and protect your own Liberal Sheep?  How on earth do you think you are able to protect the Lion minority when you are constantly throwing your Sheep Majority to the Lions?  Do you think the Lions can’t roar louder than all the Sheep?  Do you think the Conservative minority of Lions need your protection in order to roar?  The Liberal Sheep are what needs protection, not the Conservative Lions.  When you protect the Conservative Lion minority at the expense of the Liberal Sheep MAJORITY, YOU are selling your soul to Satan, whether you know it or not. This is metaphor and in another metaphor, you are the one that is concerned about helping the Fox minority by opening your Chicken House door to your Chicken majority for the Fox minority to feast.  Neither the Lions nor the Foxes need protected from the Sheep or the Chickens——Conservatives can take care of themselves quite well, but you are buying the Lions and the Foxes story and selling your class and culture down the river when you are concerned more about the Right Conservative EXTREME, than about yourself, and the Liberal Left.

While Martha/Thomas’ definition of conservative actually translates to anyone who disagrees in the slightest with his/her twisted and imaginary political world she/he does have one thing right.

I, and many of those I respect on this forum, defend the rights of the minority to the nth degree. All have an inalienable right to express positions and opinions, and all should expect those opinions to be held up to the light of scrutiny.

I have scrutinized the posts of Thomas/Martha and found them wanting and most deficient in logic. I have also scrutinized the posts of the right wing contingent here and found some insightful and some not so much, while others are simply the stuff found on the ground in horse farms . The same may be said of some of the posts of those on the left as well, perhaps my own efforts find similar opinions among some, all have opinions after all.

Thus, unlike that poor person posting under at least two names, I judge each effort as a stand alone, check for accuracy and respond according to its merit. The one exception would be for those few who have posted racist or otherwise bigoted crap in the past. Those get short shrift indeed. Some things are simply inexcusable.

ardee, October 25 at 8:46am,

Blah; the putrid smelly blah of accusation, condemnation and denunciation that is the hallmark of sophism and propaganda of Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS.

the conservatives on this blog play like they are progressive, but defend the minority far right to the nth degree.

While Martha/Thomas’ definition of conservative actually translates to anyone who disagrees in the slightest with his/her twisted and imaginary political world she/he does have one thing right.

I, and many of those I respect on this forum, defend the rights of the minority to the nth degree. All have an inalienable right to express positions and opinions, and all should expect those opinions to be held up to the light of scrutiny.

I have scrutinized the posts of Thomas/Martha and found them wanting and most deficient in logic. I have also scrutinized the posts of the right wing contingent here and found some insightful and some not so much, while others are simply the stuff found on the ground in horse farms . The same may be said of some of the posts of those on the left as well, perhaps my own efforts find similar opinions among some, all have opinions after all.

Thus, unlike that poor person posting under at least two names, I judge each effort as a stand alone, check for accuracy and respond according to its merit. The one exception would be for those few who have posted racist or otherwise bigoted crap in the past. Those get short shrift indeed. Some things are simply inexcusable.

FreeWill, October 21 at 8:42pm,

I hope you don’t give up posting because of ardee’s ignorance——the conservatives on this blog play like they are progressive, but defend the minority far right to the nth degree.

KDelphi, October 23 at 3:09 pm

Lets play a game, shall we? I will bet that I can get more Bahs and Blahs than you…...Isnt this fun?

Are you as saddened and embarrassed for these folks as am I?

bogi666, October 24 at 1:15 pm

this remark of yours is quite in keeping with my opinion of your intellectual capacity and your sanity as well…You and Thomas, birdbrains of a feather…go on and flock together now.

ardee, quote “blah,blah,blah,blah,blah,blah…....nah,nah,nah,nah,nah,nah…....” unquote. FYI your chocolate massage list didn’t include Israel which was provided for you.

ardee, October 24 at 9:03am,

ardee said “I am a certified mammal”

ThomasG’s answer:  You are a certified mammal that moooooooooooo’s amorphous nonsense, aren’t you ardee?

bogi666, October 24 at 8:14 am

Posting BS twice only doubles th eBS not the veracity. I am a certified mammal, not a plant. You are judged here by many more than me.

Druthers, ardee is a plant which never contributes and just attacks messengers of messages that ardee doesn’t like. ardee has a primary school mentality and delights in the only dialogue that ardee is capable of, which is nah,nah,nah,nah,nah…...nah, nah, nah, nah, nah…...... ardee like to go to Israel, apparently, to watch people get chocolate lotion massages paid for by American aid. ardee may be a JDL or AICPA plant.

Drthers, ardee is a plant which never contributes and just attacks messengers of messages that ardee doesn’t like. ardee has a primary school mentality and delights in the only dialogue that ardee is capable of, which is nah,nah,nah,nah,nah…...nah, nah, nah, nah, nah…...... ardee like to go to Israel, apparently, to watch people get chocolate lotion massages paid for by American aid. ardee may be a JDL or AICPA plant.

KDelphi, October 23 at 3:09pm,

Blah.

Pardon me for interrupting your personal communications… but can we please get back to the TOPIC on this FORUM - Health Care Reform (or lack thereof).
Thank you.

MarthaA/ThomasG—dont you even eat or sleep?

FreeWill, October 21 at 8:42pm and October 22 at 9:52am; Druthers, October 22 at 9:28am and tfx273, October 22 at 11:29am,

Don’t worry about ardee, he is a Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST flatworm that likes to harp on Right-Wing sophism, propaganda and knowledge without understanding, the savant imperative.

tfx273, October 22 at 11:29 am

Not that I am awar eof, why do you ask? Looking for like minded folks?

Druthers, October 22 at 9:28 am

So, you demonstrate that you are humor impaired and an idiot with nothing much to contribute…anything else you would like to divulge about yourself?

Freewill, thanks for getting it.

Sorry for the incorrect word use.  Thank you for the correction.  Being dyslexic I have never been grate at spelling.  However, I have no trouble understanding That we the people and our planet are being totally screwed by the self interested few at the top of the pyramid.  Furthermore, unlike many of the so called informed Progressives posting on this site I have had the good sense not to trust or believe anything from either of the two main political parties.  Yes, I voted for Nader.  How let down do you feel for your choice?  Or are you one of those who still believe the change will come from your Corporate owned Government? If that’s the case I’ll see you on the streets.  Those who do not take to the streets to demand change, will likely find them selves living on the streets. When the Corporate structure has sucked every bit of wealth from us, you will have no one else to blame.

ardee

You sound so gleeful to have found a typing mistake.
Perhaps your power of comprehension is impaired.
Personally I had no problem at all understanding the sense of the sentence.
Such meticulous attention to an insignificant mistake says more about you than about Freewill.

FreeWill, October 21 at 8:42 pm #

The government we have now makes the mafia look like armatures at crime.  We have a bunch of lairs, crooks,

I had to pause for several seconds attempting to understand why our govt was defined as :

Main Entry: ar·ma·ture
Pronunciation: \?är-m?-?chu?r, -ch?r, -?tyu?r, -?tu?r\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, armor, from Latin armatura armor, equipment, from armatus
Date: 15th century

1 : an organ or structure (as teeth or thorns) for offense or defense
2 a : a piece of soft iron or steel that connects the poles of a magnet or of adjacent magnets b : a usually rotating part of an electric machine (as a generator or motor) which consists essentially of coils of wire around a metal core and in which electric current is induced or in which the input current interacts with a magnetic field to produce torque c : the movable part of an electromagnetic device (as a loudspeaker) d : a framework used by a sculptor to support a figure being modeled in a plastic material e : framework 1a <events that serve as the armature of the book>

After a couple more sips of coffee I finally got it…sorry I mean no offense.

amateurs…...

The government we have now makes the mafia look like armatures at crime.  We have a bunch of lairs, crooks,
and con men in charge of “our” government. Corporatism has Killed democracy and any chance of representative governance. We are truly on the precipice of the destruction of our environment and way of life due to the greed of a small number of insatiable, sociopath individuals. 
  It is clear that we can not continue into the future with out fundamental changes to the way politicians are elected. They and heads of corporations must be held accountable for their actions and not rewarded for malice.  When they do not deliver on their campaign promises (as Pres. Obama) we should be able to throw them out of office immediately.  They are elected to serve us, not their corporate bosses.
  We must unite, (all of us) and realize the fight is not Left verses Right, but one of good verses evil.  We must end the Coke - Pepsi two party monopoly of choice and create a strong third party. A peoples party that represents us and not the Corporations and Banks.  If there was any fairness in the current state of affairs,  Max Baucus would be diagnosed with a painful and incurable disease and find that his insurance company has dropped him.

It’s very clear that what the majority of the American people need and want is NOT the priority of our esteemed leaders in Congress or the White House!

Baucus leads the brothel in his acceptance of nearly $4 million since 2003 from the healthcare cartel. Obama’s “Chief Healthcare Adviser” Nancy DeParle has taken $2 million since last year! Any wonder why Medicare For All (single payer never got on the table?)

Folks we need to do one of two things: 1) Give up and let the corrupt bastards have their way or my choice; 2) Organize a viable third party alternative to the corruption we have now! Uniting labor, greens, populists, REAL liberals, civil rights activists, feminists, and other progressives WE CAN make real change in the U.S.! It is up to us!

Raz:

Scum of the Earth…How true.  The US is now attracting the scum of the earth, those ready to cheat, to lie and crush whoever stands in their way. 
Our Congress resembles a mix of the mafia and CIA insiders using the Pentagon as a hit man.
I wonder if there is any real possibility of reform? It looks as though each step forward is a step downward into the muck and stench of total corruption. 
Baucus reminds me of the character played by Tony Curtis in “The Sweet Smell of Success.”  It is a dark rancid foul-smelling place to be.

“Why can’t the FBI find proof of bribery?  I have read many reports on these health reform deliberations.  Many cite exchanges of money and so forth.  Why can’t we throw corrupt politicians in jail?”

Because the Administration keeps appointing them to high powered positions! Especially with the finanacial sector..

Yes, israel has full health care for all, free for one year for first year residents, and, 3-5% of income after that, IF you are working—wish we would do that. If we can help pay for it there, why not here? Gawd…

http://www.nbn.co.il/site/kb/questions/42/Health+Care+Overview

It is sickening to be forced to witness such a profound obscenity as is being perpetrated by those involved in planning this “health care reform” scam.

It is OBSCENE that a country that so easily THROWS BILLIONS into wars, and BILLIONS to white collar CRIMINALS who have nearly bankrupted the nation with their frauds and thefts, can have so much trouble coming to grips with such a cut and dried proposal as FULL HEALTH CARE COVERAGE FOR ALL CITIZENS.

Of course the cost of electives should be borne by the individual. But FULL and FREE ACCESS to fundamental health care, INCLUDING NECESSARY DRUGS AND THERAPIES as decided by a PHYSICIAN not a bureaucrat or politician, is the hallmark of a CIVILIZED and COMPASSIONATE SOCIETY. Clearly, the United States of America is a LONG WAY from achieving that status. A LONG way.

This endless wrangling and haggling by the greedy and powerful for no other purpose than to LINE THEIR OWN POCKETS is a filthy, disgusting and profoundly offensive spectacle to endure. Those involved in trying to profit from human illness, disease and other miseries are the SCUM OF THE EARTH.

I dont know about anyone else but I just hadda Google Chocolate lotion massages:

You can make your own at home!
http://www.ehow.com/how_4830258_chocolate-massage-lotion.html

you can get one in Budapest!
http://www.savorsa.com/2009/07/walkerspeak-chasing-down-a-chocolate-massage-in-budapest/

http://www.ourbrisbane.com/shopping/guilt-free-chocolate-massage
and Brisbane, Aussies rock!

http://www.claremontresort.com/spa_salon_services.shtml
Nearby in Oakland Ca. too…who knew?

The things we learn, even from the slightly deranged.

When I start from the premise that every American has the right to needed health care, I can’t imagine why we cling to a “for profit” system that lines the pockets of people who don’t make medicines, wouldn’t know what to do with a scalpel and couldn’t diagnose an ingrown toenail.  What exactly do insurance companies do?  They are unnecessary, expensive middle men that we’ve allowed to hijack health care in this country.  It is, simply put, a scandal.

prole, FYI; Israel get foreign aid from the USA which equals $500 per year for each Israeli. This has been the case for the last 30 with commitments for the next 10 years. This enables Israeli’s to enjoy socialized medicine WHICH INCLUDES MASSAGES WITH CHOCOLATE LOTION is desired. Congress votes almost unanimously for Israel aid and it’s ability to finance socialized medicine with CHOCOLATE MASSAGES especially Republicans whose solution for MEDICAL CARE IS “eat poo and die Americans NO HEALTH CARE is better than socialized health care” unless you’re an Israeli, a Congressman or in the military.

“It’s now clear that health care “reform” is a bonanza for the insurance companies.”

How naive do you have to be for it to only be “clear” “now”? The “public option” was a scam compromise that would cover so few people as to be laughable, and we cant even get the Dems to do THAT?!

We dont need “health insurance”—we need health CARE.

I would also like to expand, on what Baucus has recieved from the “insurance” industry—almost $ million over ten yrs.

Tom Degan—for those that LIVE to fight another day. 45,000 a year will not.

Shame on the Dems, shame on the uS.

BTW—here’s pics of the protest that so few bothered to attend, including the media:
http://mobilizeforhealthcare.org/2009/10/20/a-victory/

I guess they were busy covering balloon boy or giving drawn out editorials.

“Congressional friends of the consumer are playing defense. For example, Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., has been fighting the insurance monopoly for years, and lately he has been joined by Sen. Schumer. Don’t count on them winning”….and don’t count on consumers winning with so-called “friends” like Schumer. Schumer is usually more interested in taking care of his real friends on Wall St.  In fact, in this (uncompleted) year alone, consumers’ buddy Schumer has received more money from the financial services sector than any other senator, a whopping $1.65 million. That’s nearly twice as much as they gave to any other senator and more than five times as much as financial corp’s gave to any Republican. It’s also over three times as much as Baucus got in two years from the ‘health industry’. And Schumer has raked in the cash from the insurance and ‘health’ moguls, too. According to Boyarsky’s spin, “Baucus is a leading recipient of contributions from health industry firms and their lobbyists… a study by the Sunlight Foundation and the Center for Responsive Politics… found ‘a web of campaign contributors’ deeply involved in the health care fight.” What this same study also found is that, “For senators who have not run for the presidency, which requires raising exorbitant amounts of money, Sen. Baucus is ahead of other committee Democrats with Sens. Schumer and Kent Conrad following close behind.” Schumer, so far, has a career total $1,402,358.00 in contributions from the ‘health sector’- second overall on the Senate Finance Committee - and $946,400.00 from insurance interests – third overall on the Committee. Why then is Baucus the industry bad guy and Schumer the consumer’s friend in Boyarsky’s righteous tale? Well, for a wiley old zionist like Boyarsky – who exulted in Israel’s extremely unhealthy assault on Gaza last January (and much else) just like Schumer – Schumer is a blood brother, so it’s pretty obvious Schumer’s lobby ties need to be conveniently ignored and his greedy puss not be featured alongside Baucus’s pic. Schumer is a card-carrying member of AIPAC and one of the leading congressional hawks on the M.E. (and a forceful advocate of the invasion of Iraq). Schumer played a key role in squelching the nomination of Chas.Freeman as head of the National Intelligence Council last March because Freeman made the obvious point that the U.S. is too pro-Israel to assume a mediation role. Schumer also lent his name to the Israel Day rally in Central Park in May sponsored by rabid settler groups like the Hebron Fund (”your home for Jewish pogroms”) and Ateret Cohanim (the settler yeshiva fostering Palestinian land thefts), and just recently Schumer has been busy trying to suppress the UN Goldstone Report, and much more. Alas, it must be also noted that Baucus too, is a pro-Israel hawk and one of AIPAC’s favorite stooges in the Senate. So bilious Boyarsky might want to go a little easier on him even if he is a goy, at least he’s a fellow traveler.

Max Baucus needs to be retired from his seat in the Senate in the 2010 Democratic Party Primaries. 

Legislation needs to be implemented where Congressmen DO NOT get money directly from lobbyists—all money sent in should go directly to the their political party to use as the political party sees fit—as it is now, lobbyists are given too much power of the purse over individual Congressmen and Congresswomen.

Don’t you just love the smiling prick in the picture
for this thread?

i was going to say something, but G.Anderson said it for me.

Another example of how the corporations are in charge of government. How they run Washington, and how they have taken over.

The disaster that is this country, every intractable problem we face as a nation, is because of corporate control of the government, the collapse of the economy, the lack of medical insurance, the collapse of American industry, immigration, addiction, our never ending wars, and on and on, it’s all because of the corporations, how they run things.

There’s a battle in congress now, between corporate stooges, and the few remaining legislators who work for the people.

No public opiton, means just that no public option, only corporate options, to continue taking from the people. Even when the people just don’t have it anymore. Now that the corporations have gutted us and moved to India, and China. 

When are the corporations ever going to do their part for this country, answer never, they could care less about this nation.

montanawildhack, October 20 at 6:55 am

Didnt you say you were leaving? Now what am I going to do with this champange?

The important age group of young voters will rebel against the Obushama administration if it forces compulsory health insurance, with fines for non compliance, on them. The whole compulsory health insurance scheme is absurd and the corruption so obvious it’s insulting because it presumes Americans are so ignorant we won’t recognize the government corruption on behalf of the insurance companies. The fact that the insurance companies are complaining that the fines are too low. The longer this health insurance reform goes on the more absurd, insane and corrupt it becomes. The reason being is that the Obushama administration is not sincere about health care but health insurance.This is evident by the way it was concocted turning it over to congress, which is easily subjected to being bribed, instead of introducing legislation to Congress.

Another illustration, sorry to say, that the inexperience of our President will doom his term of office. It seems that it will also doom this nation to continuing crappy health care coverage, remaining in the morass that is Afghanistan, living under a govt subservient and responsive only to big business and carrying huge debt load that will further cripple this country’s ability to care for the poorest among us ( and that number grows daily).

But, man can that guy speak!

Yet another article by Mr. Boyarski on “Health Insurance Reform” and Obama which fails to point out that Obama campaigned against mandates. Obviously, it just doesn’t matter. At least he’s beginning to realize this horrible legislation is nothing but a gift to the insurance industry.

—“Obama also signaled in his health reform speech to Congress last month that he was willing to abandon the public option. These concessions cost him control.”

When Obama flip flops on an important campaign promise, it costs credibility, even if the Boyarskis of the world couldn’t care less. Surely Boyarski can’t expect a dumb bloke like me to “believe” anything that spouts out of Baracks mouth anymore. He’s a liar. Thats not a slam, it’s the truth. Even if Boyarski fails to notice.

For all of you that think the Feds can mandate the purchase of whatever they want, just remember that sooner or later a (R) will have that same power (anyone think the next guy will reverse it?). And when you ask where is the authority for such a power grab, hopefully it will fall on the same deaf ears that this mandate does. Maybe a mandate to buy a 12 gauge, for “safety”. And you’ll get a tax credit for ammo. At least the 2nd amendment is part of the Constitution.

Now get ready to prove that you’ve got “acceptable insurance coverage” when you pay your taxes, I can’t wait to hear the surprise. From another country.