ardee, October 24 at 4:13pm

Blah.

Re: David Sirota

Good title.

ThomasG, October 24 at 12:18 pm #

Blah.

....................................

The extent of your intellect,so sad. All sound and fury, signifying nothing..I didnt know you were a contemporary of Will Shakespeare…He seems to have known you well.

ardee, October 24 at 9:32am,

Blah.

ThomasG, October 23 at 12:34 pm #

ardee, October 21 at 6:37am,

ardee said 10/21: “Err, too subtle for you,Thomas? The man I referred to was not Grayson, though he too has only nine months experience. I was speaking about a man whose decision making power rather exceeds that of the honorable Mr.G.”

BUT:

quoting ardee’s statement 10/20 at 6:31am on this same thread:

“Yes, I am speaking about Rep. Grayson, who did you think?”

********************************************

You are Rush Limbaugh, are you not? You take two sentences, from two different posts and put them together to prove that you are a despicable, slime trail leaving piece of excrement…Congratulations moron.

ardee, October 21 at 6:37am,

ardee said 10/21: “Err, too subtle for you,Thomas? The man I referred to was not Grayson, though he too has only nine months experience. I was speaking about a man whose decision making power rather exceeds that of the honorable Mr.G.”

BUT:

quoting ardee’s statement 10/20 at 6:31am on this same thread:

“Yes, I am speaking about Rep. Grayson, who did you think?”

ardee, What is your current SUBJECTIVE claim with regard to the OBJECTIVE facts as related in your post???????

How exactly does your OBJECTIVE statement of “Yes, I am speaking about Rep. Grayson,” SUBJECTIVELY morph into “I was speaking about a man whose decision making power rather exceeds that of the honorable Mr.G.”???????

I know that all of YOU Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS want to claim that everything is SUBJECTIVE, so that “You People” cannot be held to account for YOUR claims of amorphous nonsense, but Shenonymous has already admitted that “shit in a bucket” is OBJECTIVE.  How do YOU reconcile YOUR OBJECTIVE conflicting claims? ——and, how does the Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS reconcile all of their conflicting claims,—now that Shenonymous has admitted that “shit in a bucket” really is OBJECTIVE

ThomasG, October 20 at 5:40 pm

Err, too subtle for you,Thomas? The man I referred to was not Grayson, though he too has only nine months experience. I was speaking about a man whose decision making power rather exceeds that of the honorable Mr.G.

But then again, you seem to have gone off your meds of late.

ardee, October 20 at 4:09pm,

We have had the idiot Ronald Wilson Reagan, an actor, that played the part of President; another idiot that wanted to know “What is this vision thing, anyway?”—George H. W. Bush and lastly “W” Bush that abdicated all of his responsibility to Dick Cheney; YOU do not ask, why Reagan?—YOU do not ask why Bush I?—YOU do not ask why “W” Bush? —while the masses of the population of the United States are paying TENS of TRILLIONS of DOLLARS to clean up their mess.  After all that has happened; YOU only ask how a man, Florida Rep. Alan Grayson that is a Harvard Graduate, that has qualifications that relegate Reagan, Bush I and Bush II to the status of flat worms, who with exactly nine months in office can be relied upon to make great change.

Rep. Alan Grayson can be relied upon because he has the experience of education, because he is not a Conservative Right-Wing EXTREMIST savant, because Rep. Grayson has creative, abstract, figurative and dynamic intelligence and is a leader, all of which Reagan, Bush I and Bush II were NOT, and did not even have the ability to understand that they did not; and YOU, as a Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST have the effrontery to question Florida Rep. Alan Grayson who has good sense, education, understanding and leadership ability that NONE of the Conservative Right-Wing EXTREMISTS from Goldwater through Reagan, Bush I and Bush II have had.

ThomasG, October 20 at 10:32 am #

I wonder, Thomas, why you insist on portraying yourself as such an asshole? I asked a rather simple question really, and here it is again:

“I wonder how a man with exactly nine months in office and inexperienced on the national level can be relied upon to make great changes?”

Instead of even attempting any sort of lucid answer you posted a bunch of bold typed bullshit. Why I wonder would you even bother?

ardee, October 20 at 6:31am,

ardee said: “I wonder how a man with exactly nine months in office and inexperienced on the national level can be relied upon to make great changes?”

Shenonymous, October 19 at 6:23pm on Truthdig “War on Language” said: “Both shit and bucket will be objective facts verified not only by scientific examination.”

ThomasG’s answer: I wonder about you, ardee, a person that don’t know the difference between subjective “shit in a bucket” and objective “shit in a bucket” and why anyone would care about what you think, when you and all of the rest of your knuckle dragging Neanderthal troglodyte Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMISTS are always trying to peddle subjective “shit in a bucket” as if it is objective reality that does not stink.

I wonder how a man with exactly nine months in office and inexperienced on the national level can be relied upon to make great changes?

Yes, I am speaking about Rep. Grayson, who did you think? No significant seniority, no important committee appointments, a great position I understand and applaud but how can this one man, or three or even ten, turn the colossus that is the Democratic Party from its rightward course?

“Congressman Alan Grayson and PCCC Delivering Petition to Senator Harry Reid

The solution is support of Congressman Alan Grayson and his quest as a leader to remove Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST toadies and cooperators from leadership positions in the Democratic Party.”

From listening to Alan Grayson on ThomasG’s post, and after seeing and hearing Alan Grayson in the news recently, it sounds like Florida Congressman Alan Grayson, a Harvard graduate, has the solution, the knowledge and backbone to clean up the liberal side of the political spectrum.  Grayson’s appearance on the scene has definitely restored hope in this old liberal.

Michael Shaw is mistaken below.  This Old Indian actually said nothing at all about “rebellion” in the earlier post here….nor has that word or any of its common equivalents appeared in other comments offered on this site.

What has been suggested regularly is that only by getting together in actual organic communities, where they live and breathe everyday, and so helping one another rather than their make-believe “selfs,” will the CONfused and terrified masses of presently atomized and artifactual “individuals” have any chance at all of coming through the catastrophic collapse of the “global” CONtraption presently hell-bent on exploiting them all to-death….for fun and profit.  “Rebellion” itself is essentially an expression of CONtrived immaturity, and always takes place on terms set by the oppressive regime which the “rebels” want to overthrow and replace with one based on pretty much the same set of assumptions, only with theirownselves in-charge.  The feckless attempts of the “civilized nations” to “conquer” Nature, and to replace Her Living Arrangement with some pitifully inadequate and counterfeit CONstruct of their own device and CONceit, is in-effect the “model” for all the political/social/economic “revolutions” the domesticated peoples’ve become so enamored-of and addicted-to.

The CONglomeration of CONditions overwhelming homo domesticus here in these latter days are, at their very roots, purely BIOLOGICAL in nature.  They’ve come about as the inevitable CONsequence of engineered ignorance and institutionalized stupidity.  A severely handicapped sub-species of Humanity, made captive to purposes and processes avowedly inimical to the Natural Living Arrangement of our Mother Earth, have run hard up against the exceedingly (and dead-certain to prove fatally) CONstrictive limits of their own artificially induced and organically foolhardy behavior.

Recovering the integrity of their organic function within Life’s Song ‘n’ Dance here, by returning to the organic form in-keeping with that function, is The Way open to our tame Sisters and Brothers in their increasingly desperate search for some viable alternative to the destructive end guaranteed by going on much further with the idiotic “dominance” paradigm.  There isn’t a snowball’s chance in hell some self-obsessed and random collection of (even 6-plus billion) “individuals” will “subdue The Earth,” nevermind the whole Living Universe.  Those who are able to recognize the sheer folly of such grandiose ambitions might yet join us free wild survivors of the now-coming-to-its-CONclusion “global” holocaust to carry-on in the given place of Humankind here.

The rest we’ll have to catch later.

HokaHey!

Jones, October 17 at 2:22 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

Many who commented here need to enlist in the Army or Air Force or Navy on Monday, first thing, don’t wait. Learn to be a real American. 

I served, have you?  Anyone?

.........................

Most will ignore you I think, and I do not blame them for it. Several of us here,at least, have seen combat in fact. But what exactly that has to do with the topic at hand is a mystery. Neither does serving in the armed forces give one any cachet to think they know better than one who has not served.

Fame can be a real downer.

For someone who wants to try and do the right thing, there’s a twelve body deep circle of people to peer through, while trying to see what the right thing to do is.

And then there’s the “kings servant psychosis”. That’s when the servants are actually more demanding and more precise and more snobbish and more inclined to prevent penetration into the inner sanctum than the king is! The conceit of the “kings servant psychosis” actually leads to the servants making critical decisions in the name of protecting the king, that are not actually in the king’s best interests.

Fortunately we do not live in a class society composed of royalty, the royal servants, their snobby, pretentious courtiers, the kings knights and everybody else.

Sometimes it just looks that way.

What we actually have is a president surrounded by a twelve body deep group of officials, advisers, experts, pretend experts, secret service, and generally nondescript know-it-alls. Sometimes a president is hard put to be heard through the din.

That’s when our unique form of freedom steps in.

We are blessed with a Plethora of news breakers, makers and wonks, who all know more about everything than anything, and are there to think for us, 24/7. And since there are far to many of them looking for breaking news to hold our attention, they often take a one-line comment from anybody, about anything, create a breaking news, news story around it, then turn it over to the 24/7 analysts, who analyse it to death!

Eventually it filters back to the guy at the top, the president, and he has to start back-peddling. Or, (lest he confuse the easily confused) go along with it for a time. Sometimes it seems he has to spend more time re-spinning the spin, than actually getting things done.

The price of fame.

Then there’s that other kind of fame. The fame the seeker never sought, but because of the breaking news, news breakers need, becomes the focus to explain the unexplainable. The inevitable result is the object of that fame, in this case Olympia Snowe, actually begins to believe the spin around her. She does indeed begin to believe she is the queen. Ready and eager, (if not able) to play the role.

The rude awakening of reality awaits her in the wings.

This piece falls just short of the critical inference that needs to be made from Sen. Snowe’s prominence on this issue.  It is that the Congressional leadership of the Democratic Party knows that the magical, 60 vote seat total they have in the Senate is not , “filibuster-proof.”  That is a fiction created by the media which chooses to ignore the real political stripes of faux Democrat Senators like both Nelsons, Max Baucus, Mary Landrieu and others, as well as the despicable Joe Lieberman. Knowing they can’t win a filibuster fight with Republicans, Democratic leadership prefer to meekly capitulate beforehand than expose the reality that sending candidates with a Democratic label to Congress is not enough for voters to assure the end of Republican policies. 

They are abject, pathetic cowards.

In fact, without a PUBLIC vote on the public option, we may never know where Democratic Senators really stand on the issue.  Chuck Schumer, a confirmed DLC toadie, states publicly that he supports it, and that certainly ingratiates himself with his constituency, but how do we know how he really would vote for it if there is no vote?  For all we know he’s “on board” with the insurers and Big Pharma…and they know it, and the Dem leadership knows it…but WE’LL never know it because he won’t be forced to make his support a matter of public record.

Adding to the problem is the fact that we have a deluded Democratic president who believes that “bipartisanship” has intrinsic value.  That gives the timorous Democratic leadership cover to surrender, under the banner of “bipartisanship,” on ANY issue.  Tom Delay, who never allowed a single vote to come to the floor of the House unless he was CERTAIN the Republicans had the votes to pass it - whatever the Democrats might do - and went so far as to deny to Democrats any opportunity to speak out on the floor against Bush’s first budget, must giggle out loud every time Obama helps Republicans by boosting the value of “bipartisanship.”  Rush Limbaugh said to CPAC - “To us, bipartisanship is them being forced to agree with us after we politically have cleaned their clocks and beaten them.” 

Republicans clearly understand the only true value of bipartisanship in this country - it’s that they don’t practice it and Democrats do.  Ted Kennedy practically fell over his tongue running to the White House to support No Child Left Behind, Joe Lieberman, as a defeated Democratic candidate for Veep, gleefully supported the unconstitutional faith based “initiatives.”  What, exactly, have Republicans given Obama as a “tit” for the Dem’s “tat?” 

Birthers.

Organized rabble rousers at town meetings on health care.

When independent “swing” voters assess what’s happened in the four years prior to 2012, they will return to the Republican fold by the millions.  When they see that Democrats, even with a whopping majority, couldn’t be trusted to use their advantage to improve American life with significant improvement and availability of affordable health care, tightening of government regulations to prevent economic calamities of the type we’re now enduring, disengagement from multiple disastrous wars, achievement (and recovery) of civil rights denied by Republican regimes, openness and fairness in government relations and negotiations with multi-billion dollar corporations - all of which Obama and the Democrats PROMISED us - voters will conclude that voting Republican is in their best interests.

After all, Republicans won’t raise taxes, right?

Democrats will get exactly what they deserve in 2012.  Unfortunately, so will the rest of us for accepting the Democratic Party as the only alternative to the Republican Party.  They are boot lackeys.

Representative Alan Grayson of Florida echoed the same sentiment on television. 
He said that Olympia Snow was not elected last November, Barack Obama was
elected by a wide majority.  That majority expects the Democrats to fulfill their
campaign promise to give every American adequate and affordable health care,
including the public option.

It’s time for the Democratic Party to stand up for its members.  It is time for
Congress to stand up for their constituents, not the health insurance companies,
their real constituents, us.

Great article. He did get it. I must apologize to Mr. Sirota.  I haven’t read anyone else who’s laid it out so succinctly.

“So the notion that Snowe’s vote—or any GOP vote—is inherently pivotal to health care reform is a fantasy created by the Beltway media and the Democratic congressional leadership. The former is desperately trying to manufacture headline-grabbing drama; the latter is looking for a Republican excuse to water down the bill and protect corporate interests—all while absolving Democrats of legislative responsibility.”

Snow has at leat got courage to go against her party. Her party offers nothing to the health debate. Get rid of the insurance companies who are only in it for profit.  They take 60 cents of every dollar spent on health.
  Government is already in charge (as should be) of Medicare, Social Security, and Veterans health Ins.
  All are running better than what is proposed and would be 4 times more expensive.  The insurance companies are only ones hig-fiving each other as they will be making More now.  More than ever.
  Get a public option. Yes, an “option”, that will in time be better for all. Obama proposed it initially but caved into resistance from Republicans. Shameful.

Sometimes Sirota seems to get the real corporate squeeze and how its played, and sometimes he is clueless. This leads one to think of motive, but I will leave that for now.

Here’s how it works, for anyone dim enough not to understand corruption.  The Democrats actually WANT to water down the health “reform” bill in order to please their corporate paymasters.  In order to do that without looking like the craven, amoral, spineless corporate hacks that they are, they need at least one Republican to vote for the “reform”. All the “compromises” by the Dems to Snow are really corporate demands already agreed to by the Dems.  They are just using her and “bipartisanship” as the reason for their betrayal of the Democratic base and independents who actually believed that when they voted for Obama they were going to get “change”.  Instead, we got the consolidation of corporate control over our government, and the complete takeover of the treasury by the banks, health care by private insurers, and probably the end of medicare and maybe social security, not to mention increased military presence in our schools (including CIA recruitment).  More secrecy and the codification of torture (this by a constitutional professor-Obama.)

BTW, Obama’s declared wish for nuclear disarmament is really a front for the nuclear power industry to supercede any major move towards renewable energy in the 3rd world, and indeed, everywhere.  Every state is to sign nuclear non proliferation treaties in order to make it safe for nuclear power stations that are not thought of as the first step towards makeing nuclear weapons. This is the real reason for the bullying of Iran.  Obama’s on the Nuclear industry payroll as well.

It could just be that those who’ve been allowed a peek at the ‘script’ are acutely aware there isn’t enough ‘time’ left for any of this to matter anyhow.  Of course the assigned ‘role ’ of “....your huddled masses” is to be the “true believers” who go over the cliff slap-happily expecting to sprout wings and fly.  Meantime, those in-the-know will’ve long since been airlifted to the illusory safety of gated compounds in undisclosed locations.

There’s absolutely nothing to any of this 24/7 media madness but going-through-the-motions, lest some among the intended sacrificees manage to cling to some of the ‘escape’ pods and prevent a few of the ‘chosen’ from getting away….ala those scenes from america’s flight from Viet Nam.  There’s only cold comfort in ‘revenge,’ anyway, and damned little of that, as someone noted awhile ago.

The sooner the billions of “left-behinds” figure out they’re redundant to the ‘future’ requirements of the “civilization” CONtraption, the sooner they can quit looking “up” for salvation, and get together where they actually live and breathe to help each other.

There is no “other” Way open to our tame Sisters and Brothers.

HOkaHey!

David wrote”...So the notion that Snowe’s vote—or any GOP vote—is inherently pivotal to health care reform is a fantasy created by the Beltway media and the Democratic congressional leadership.” How could you David leave out the big enchilada President O????
May be after reading Micheal Moore “pussy whipped” second letter of penance you decided to follow. Could not believe my eyes.

Its called selling out, david. both parties do it, as you have noted. If the Senate Finance Comm is “the bill”—a word to the wise, Obama—dont sign it!

FiftyGigs—if this is the best the Dems can do, who needs “friends”? its a shit bill. If they “pass”
it this way, reform will be put off for decades more and Obama’s domestic “policy” (already in jeopardy of looking samo/samo GOP) will be , not just a failure, but, a total failure.

But, as far as I can see, it will change nothing for anyone I know personally (may raise their private policy rates), so, its you funeral!

“I don’t get it.”

Too hard? Yeah. Let me explain:

“Just this week, the Senate Finance Committee approved a reform proposal that has both Democratic and Republican support.” [Barack Obama, Radio Address, 10/17]

That’s why.

It’s called aggressive politics, and a bare-knuckle brawl would be easier. Obama just engaged the real enemy. Understand? And your response is to… whine about Snowe?? What’s the matter? Did you finish your series of articles on each specific provision of the health care bills and have no other topic this week?

If you don’t “get it” then you don’t want health care reform.

I suppose the President (who we all know is really in the pocket of the industry, like every Democrat) probably wants to keep insurance issues really hush-hush, right? Let’s listen in:

“The history is clear: for decades rising health care costs have unleashed havoc on families, businesses, and the economy.”

Havoc! You do realize he used that word, not because he’s a flowery speaker, but because health care costs really have unleashed havoc, right?

“In fact, the insurance industry is rolling out the big guns and breaking open their massive war chest – to marshal their forces for one last fight to save the status quo. They’re filling the airwaves with deceptive and dishonest ads. They’re flooding Capitol Hill with lobbyists and campaign contributions.  And they’re funding studies designed to mislead the American people.”

All simple truths.

Yeah, yeah, Obama should have won the presidency without taking contributions and without spending any money. I get it. Have Sarah Palin try that and let us know how it works.

Obama just nailed the monster, and he did it on a nationwide address that dwarfs the combined power of conservative talking heads. Is your contribution to this effort really going to be to just whine and tally up daily scores like politics were the equivalent of football rankings?

No wonder you don’t get it.

The way the Obushama administration has handled the health care reform issue makes it clear that Obushama wasn’t serious about it being a success. Rather than crafting and introducing legislation Obushama turned it over to Congress virtually ensuring its failure because each committee came up with competing versions subject to influence[bribery] by the health insurance industry through their lobbyists. AS for Snowe being so significant about her unnecessary vote is something so absurd and bizarre it defies explanation except serving as an explanation to scuttle the whole issue.

The Democrats made her the Queen because they are used to following Republican leadership, and don’t have the courage or ability to lead on their own.

Hi, usually like your editorials; this time…

I think it might be possible to bring the Republicrats and the Democans together to solve us “little gals/guys” problems, quickly and efficiently—believe there’s this clock ticking…

iRa

David Sirota,

The following is in answer to your question:

Congressman Alan Grayson and PCCC Delivering Petition to Senator Harry Reid

http://www.actblue.com/page/reidaccountable?refcode=f-bcn

The solution is support of Congressman Alan Grayson and his quest as a leader to remove Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST toadies and cooperators from leadership positions in the Democratic Party over Congressional Committees and to replace them with Democrats that have a spine and the will to represent the masses of the American population, rather than narrow Corporate interests at the expense of the masses of the American population, and to take the same process to the Senate, so that all of the offending Congressmen and Senators can be identified and eliminated in the Primary Election Process; in this manner, with Congressman Alan Grayson’s leadership, the Democratic Party can be reformed and transformed into a Political Party that is representative of the masses of the Common Population of the United States, rather than a minority population of middle class toadies that are representative of narrow Corporate interests at the expense of the masses of the Common Population of the United States.

Why is she queen of America? Because she acted like a decent human being instead of a criminal. These days that’s all it takes.

Maine already has a form of socialized medicine, all children are covered by state insurance till they are 18.  Snowe would look pretty foolish if she didn’t support an all inclusive bill.

If our congresspeople don’t want to pass a national healthcare bill it should be done state by state, like the canadians did provience by provience.

Oh the weather outside is frightful
But the fire is so delightful
And since we’ve no place to go
Let it Snowe! Let it Snowe! Let it Snowe!

You don’t even have to read the article, which really says nothing.  Why is Olympia Snowe front and center?  Because of Barack Obama.  She is his symbol of bipartisanship, his way of saying look what I accomplished.  No matter that he’ll sell the American people out to get that one vote.  Yes, I’ve enough articles over the last few months of Barack’s constant contact with Olympia Snowe.  But screw the Progressive Dems—they have to sit down and shut up.  I am absolutely amazed that the Obamanistas, Obamabots, or whatever you want to call them—do not get that this guy is not really into real reform.  I’m wondering if he ever was.  Did he throw single-payer out there in a speech lo those many years ago in 2003 as a calculated move to start courting the progressives on his way to a Presidential win?  It’s a shame so many lives are at stake and the well-being of an entire country.  Otherwise I would be hysterical watching the smoke and mirrors and the constant red herrings of the dog-and-pony show.

Thanks David for mentioning “reconciliation” as part of the process Harry Reid can and should use to bring ” Single Payer” into the foray.
He is so weak-kneed and this baloney of Bi-Partisan is so phony it would be laughable, if not such a serious component of our health needs.
Why is it that the repugs are so parliamentarian procedure smart and the dimmos so DUM? Remember the dis-embowlment of the constitution? The repugs beat the dimmos with tricks and political manuevers..all legal ‘cept the outcome.

A snow job.

Dear Inherit the Wind,

In response to your query, Who gives a rat’s ass about her hair?  “I do!!  It pisses me off.”  I sincerely hope this clarifies things… 

Now can we please cease this inane claptrap about Olympia Snowe’s hair and speak of more important things like the Balloon Boy…  He’s a Hero!!!!!

If you don’t think the American political scene is one giant mes then reading this ridiculous article should convince you otherwise.

Let us not speak about what a useless outcome will be this “reform”, let us not speak to the continuing deaths in an unwinnable war, certainly we shall not discuss the flushing of trillions down the sewer that will be our children’s future.

No, lets follow the authors lead and speak to nothing of consequence at all…Must have been an approaching deadline with nothing much to say.

I’ll tell you what really pisses me off——-Olympia Snowe’s hair!!!  This woman is old enough to have gotten laid on VE day and she doesn’t have a gray hair on her head???  I mean her hair is jet black!!! It looks stupid and it really makes me mad…..
***********************************************

Yeah, why isn’t it dyed phony blonde or plastic red like all the other old ladies? And frizzie. Why isn’t it frizzie?

(where’s the irony smiley?  Who GIVES a rat’s @$$ about her hair?)

Once again as it with So Many of these articles: “Tell me something I don’t know!!!!!”  So it’s all a big goddamn dog and pony show and we’ll all be fucked over when all is said done… Do your worst…. 

I’ll tell you what really pisses me off——-Olympia Snowe’s hair!!!  This woman is old enough to have gotten laid on VE day and she doesn’t have a gray hair on her head???  I mean her hair is jet black!!! It looks stupid and it really makes me mad…..

Can you imagine the Demo consternation over this problem?  They are obligated to do the bidding of their employers but know, without any doubt, that the bill they must produce will destroy not only their majority but the future of the president.  Bit the hand that feeds you or the people who trusted you to be on their side.  Watching Reed and others navigate this maze is interesting but sad.  Look what Clinton did to this party!  He will go down as the killer of the Dems, just like Reagan gets the blame for the GOP.