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A War of Absurdity

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Posted on Oct 6, 2009
Afghan landscape
Flickr / U.S. Army

U.S. soldiers watch a CH-47 helicopter land near Naray, Afghanistan, in 2007.

By Robert Scheer

Every once in a while, a statistic just jumps out at you in a way that makes everything else you hear on a subject seem beside the point, if not downright absurd. That was my reaction to the recent statement of the president’s national security adviser, former Marine Gen. James Jones, concerning the size of the terrorist threat from Afghanistan:

“The al-Qaida presence is very diminished. The maximum estimate is less than 100 operating in the country, no bases, no ability to launch attacks on either us or our allies.”

Less than 100! And he is basing his conservative estimate on the best intelligence data available to our government. That means that al-Qaida, for all practical purposes, does not exist in Afghanistan—so why are we having a big debate about sending even more troops to fight an enemy that has relocated elsewhere? Because of the blind belief, in the minds of those like John McCain, determined to “win” in Afghanistan, that if we don’t escalate, al-Qaida will inevitably come back.

Why? It’s not like al-Qaida is an evil weed indigenous to Afghanistan and dependent on its climate and soil for survival. Its members were foreign imports in the first place, recruited by our CIA to fight the Soviets because there were evidently not enough locals to do the job. After all, U.S. officials first forged the alliance between the foreign fighters and the Afghan mujahedeen, who morphed into the Taliban, and we should not be surprised that that tenuous alliance ended. The Taliban and other insurgents are preoccupied with the future of Afghanistan, while the Arab fighters couldn’t care less and have moved on to more hospitable climes.

There is no indication that any of the contending forces in Afghanistan, including the Taliban, are interested in bringing al-Qaida back. On the contrary, all the available evidence indicates that the Arab fighters are unwelcome and that it is their isolation from their former patrons that has led to their demise. 

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As such, while one wishes that the Afghan people would put their houses in order, these are not, even after eight long years of occupation, our houses. Sure, there are all sorts of angry people in Afghanistan, eager to pick fights with each other and most of all any foreigners who seem to be threatening their way of life, but why should that any longer have anything to do with us?

Even in neighboring Pakistan, the remnants of al-Qaida are barely hanging on. As The Wall Street Journal reported Tuesday, “Hunted by U.S. drones, beset by money problems and finding it tougher to lure young Arabs to the bleak mountains of Pakistan, al Qaeda is seeing its role shrink there and in Afghanistan, according to intelligence reports and Pakistan and U.S. officials. … For Arab youths who are al Qaeda’s primary recruits, ‘it’s not romantic to be cold and hungry and hiding,’ said a senior U.S. official in South Asia.”

It’s time to declare victory and begin to get out rather than descend deeper into an intractable civil war that we neither comprehend nor in the end will care much about. Terrorists of various stripes will still exist as they have throughout history, but the ones we are most concerned about have proved mighty capable of relocating to less hostile environments, including sunny San Diego and southern Florida, where the 9/11 hijackers had no trouble fitting in.

There is a continued need for effective international police work to thwart the efforts of a widely dispersed al-Qaida network, but putting resources into that effort does not satisfy the need of the military establishment for a conventional field of battle. That is the significance of Gen. Stanley McChrystal’s leaked report calling for a massive counterinsurgency campaign to make everything right about life in Afghanistan, down to the governance of the most forlorn village. The general’s report aims not at eliminating al-Qaida, which he concedes is barely existent in the country, but rather at creating an Afghan society that is more to his own liking. 

It is a prescription, as the Russians and others before them learned, for war without end. That might satisfy the marketing needs of the defense industry and the career hopes of select military and political aspirants, but it has nothing to do with fighting terrorism. In the end, it would seem that some of our leaders need the Afghanistan battleground more than the terrorists do.

Click here to check out Robert Scheer’s book,
“The Great American Stickup: How Reagan Republicans and Clinton Democrats Enriched Wall Street While Mugging Main Street.”


Keep up with Robert Scheer’s latest columns, interviews, tour dates and more at www.truthdig.com/robert_scheer.



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By KDelphi, October 14, 2009 at 2:35 pm Link to this comment

ITW—Yes I did notice that—I thought, “cows”? It doesnt seem to fit, with the grassy hillsides and cows grazing with a chopper overhead.

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By Inherit The Wind, October 13, 2009 at 7:35 pm Link to this comment

ardee, October 13 at 8:46 pm #

Yeah, even a broken clock is right twice a day. But who is the broken clock and who is the Omega?  (hint: RD’s wrong a lot! smile )

Yeah I am indeed, but that is part of the human condition. Some recognize this and others do not..What time is it ITW?
***********************************************

Time to wake up!

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By ardee, October 13, 2009 at 5:46 pm Link to this comment

Yeah, even a broken clock is right twice a day. But who is the broken clock and who is the Omega?  (hint: RD’s wrong a lot! smile )

Yeah I am indeed, but that is part of the human condition. Some recognize this and others do not..What time is it ITW?

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, October 13, 2009 at 5:12 pm Link to this comment

Why does the accompanying photo look like the Teletubbies’ lawn or the Windows XP screen with troops and cows super-imposed on it?

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By Inherit The Wind, October 13, 2009 at 5:10 pm Link to this comment

ardee, October 13 at 6:30 am #

Inherit The Wind, October 12 at 10:10 pm

The sun shines at midnight…....That’s about how often ITW and I are in full agreement. On this one we definitely are in such agreement.

AFriend has a longish history of obfuscation, changing the subject when confronted with the realities of a given subject and is, sadly, an apologist for neoconservatism, war and greed.
**********************************************

Yeah, even a broken clock is right twice a day. But who is the broken clock and who is the Omega?  (hint: RD’s wrong a lot! smile )

Report this

By ardee, October 13, 2009 at 3:30 am Link to this comment

Inherit The Wind, October 12 at 10:10 pm

The sun shines at midnight…....That’s about how often ITW and I are in full agreement. On this one we definitely are in such agreement.

AFriend has a longish history of obfuscation, changing the subject when confronted with the realities of a given subject and is, sadly, an apologist for neoconservatism, war and greed.

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By Inherit The Wind, October 12, 2009 at 7:10 pm Link to this comment

but the facts remain
1) that we removed the Taliban,
2) weakened al Qaeda in the region,
3) fostered a consensual government in the most unlikely of places,
4)and helped to prevent another catastrophic attack on our nation originating from that part of the world

************************************************

Actually, 1 and 2 are backwards, but I’m OK with that.  3 is flat-out false, and there is NO evidence that 4 is true, only that the terrorists, like predators, have since gone for easier targets.

So….even if we assume 1, 2 AND 3 are true, that strengthens ever further the argument that it’s time to GET OUT of Afghanistan, or, at least start toning down our presencet there.

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By AFriend, October 12, 2009 at 5:50 pm Link to this comment

ardee,

It occurs to me again that you have yet to present a set of a facts counter to my observations. All you’ve attempted to do is change the subject and add insult where you can.

The idea here is to listen. Listen and hold an exchange of ideas.

I remain optimistic that you could add some real value here.

Good luck to you.

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By ardee, October 12, 2009 at 3:18 pm Link to this comment

No pain at all, AFriend, simple disgust with you and your smarmy “facts”.

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By AFriend, October 12, 2009 at 2:17 pm Link to this comment

Christian,

“AFriend—- Do you believe it might be possible the people who made statements might have twisted the facts or just out right LIED about the facts to influence the thoughts of others in order to support their hidden agenda?”

—-

Yes I do. We can be sure that every player at every level, whether mindless or contrived, has their own point of view of events as they take place. But we can’t miss the context in that we’re talking about a cast of thousands when we’re talking about Western efforts in Afghanistan.

Do I believe there’s a small number of people on the globe able to obstruct our collective view on the ground in Afghanistan? No. That was once possible for governments to pull off for brief periods of time. Almost never for years on end. It’s next to impossible today.

When I look at the data on Afghanistan the situation, put simplistically, is reflected in what I wrote prior. I didn’t offer a complete picture as I see it. Only a few but little discussed points.

It’s an brief and honest assessment I offer. Nothing more.

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By christian96, October 12, 2009 at 1:10 pm Link to this comment

christian96,

I remain unclear on what you’re requesting, Christian. Am I to go back over the last nine years and catalog all reading materials, all Congressional testimony, all observances of top military brass, all past and present Presidential statements and press conferences, every intelligence report, etc. etc?

AFriend—-Now I am starting to understand.  Your
facts are based on Congressional testimony, reports
from military brass, Presidential statements and
press conferences, intelligence reports, etc. Do
you believe it might be possible the people who
made statements might have twisted the facts or
just out right LIED about the facts to influence
the thoughts of others in order to support their
hidden agenda?

Report this

By AFriend, October 12, 2009 at 9:36 am Link to this comment

christian96,

I remain unclear on what you’re requesting, Christian. Am I to go back over the last nine years and catalog all reading materials, all Congressional testimony, all observances of top military brass, all past and present Presidential statements and press conferences, every intelligence report, etc. etc?

The Taliban is no longer in control. Al Qaeda has indeed been weakened. Support for bin Laden has steadily dwindled the globe over. Usama has lost Command and Control and, there is an elected, albeit fragile, consensual government in Afghanistan. These are, to date, undisputed facts. It matters none if others wish not to hear or know these things.

—-

Some will conclude these observations are in support of their political enemies -namely Bush/Cheney - however, those would be the same who are not actually paying attention to realities on the ground. I hold no particular love or disdain for the past or present U.S. administrations. I have no political enemies.

If you wish we could continue this discussion in more depth in another venue. You have only to ask.

—-

ardee,

You have reverted back to acting as a frustrated and petulant child in your attempts to be heard. Yes, ardee, I hear you. Yes, I know what you think of me. No it doesn’t bother me in the least. I feel bad for you. You’re obviously in a fair amount of pain.

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By christian96, October 12, 2009 at 5:28 am Link to this comment

By AFriend, October 11 at 1:57 am #


Afghanistan is a messy war, but so far it has been conducted with a minimum loss of American life while achieving some important goals. We can argue about current strategies, fault what’s been done in the past, deplore the length of the war, lament its cost, or blame each other for its inconclusiveness, but the facts remain that we removed the Taliban, weakened al Qaeda in the region, fostered a consensual government in the most unlikely of places, and helped to prevent another catastrophic attack on our nation originating from that part of the world — and did all this with a degree of skill that is reflected in losses that by historical standards are quite moderate.

AFriend—-You made the above comments on Oct. 11th
at 1:57 am.  How do you know “the facts remain that
we removed the Taliban, weakened Al Qaeda in the
region, fostered a consensual government in the most
unlikely of places, and helped to prevent another
catastrophic attack on our nation originating from
that part of the world?”  Where did you get those
facts?

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By ardee, October 12, 2009 at 2:54 am Link to this comment

christian96, October 12 at 1:10 am

I would applaud this effort of yours as perhaps your best on this forum.

I would also caution that dialogue with AFriend will bring you no honest answers only slippery avoidance.

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By AFriend, October 11, 2009 at 10:55 pm Link to this comment

christian96,

“You may know the outcome of a sporting event but can you tell me why we invaded Iraq and Afghanistan?”

—-

I’m unclear as to why you’re asking. May I ask the point of your question?

Report this

By christian96, October 11, 2009 at 10:10 pm Link to this comment

AFriend—-It is rather easy to understand global
sporting events since most are televised.  We can
see the event as it is happening.  Even if we can’t
see it there are plenty of sources to verify the
results of the event.  However, when it comes to
understanding certain global events it becomes more
complex.  We know America has invaded Iraq and
Afghanistan.  Understanding WHY we invaded them
becomes a little more tricky.  Do I accept the
reasons given on nightly news?  Do I accept Glenn
Beck and Russ Limbaugh’s reasons why we invaded?
Do I accept the reasons depicted in an article on
Truthdig?  Do I accept the reasons depicted on Arab
nightly news?  I could go on and on.  Someone had
to make the decision to send troops into the two
nations.  It is that person who knows the real
reason(s) we invaded.  Since we have been so lied
to by our political leaders about many areas it
becomes difficult to trust our political leaders.
Therefore, without trust, we turn to so called
intellectual experts to offer us possible explanations for our invasions. That opens a can of
all sorts of subjective conjectures concerning the
reason(s) for the invasions.  You may know the
outcome of a sporting event but can you tell me
why we invaded Iraq and Afghanistan?

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By Inherit The Wind, October 11, 2009 at 7:23 pm Link to this comment

AFriend:

As you try to defend the Bush administration’s totally botched strategies in Afghanistan, you miss the real point:

We actually have achieved our objective in Afghanistan, should state that and begin reducing our presence there.  Al Qaeda is functionally extinct in Afghanistan, according to the military. They are nearly extinct in the Pakistan/Afghan border dispute.

It’s also time to admit that Hamid Karzai is not the great uniter we thought he was in 2002, but is simply another corrupt politician willing to cook an election to keep his flow of money coming.

The game changed in March 2003 with The Big Blunder—that Jimmy Carter strenuously warned us against—attacking Iraq. What ever happened to the generals and admirals who took it as axiomatic that you don’t fight a two-front war, or two wars at once?

No, Ardee, with whom I frequently disagree, is correct on this point.  Our military business in Afghanistan is basically done.  Time to wind it up, get the troops home, and stop spending money we need elsewhere on it.

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By ardee, October 11, 2009 at 4:31 pm Link to this comment

AFriend, October 11 at 2:53 pm #

ardee,

You presented no set of facts that others could contrast with my original post on this subject. You presented, as I did, your opinions.

You are a slippery little doggy arent you, insincere, dishonest and slimy too. Congratulations you earned the trifecta, just like your hero Georgie.

First you insisted that your opinions were facts, and mine were the lies of the liberal media. Now it is I that seeks no honest dialogue. You are correct in that assumption, I think you a waste of everyones time.

I will , however, reserve the right to point out each and every fallacious piece of excrement you attempt to foist upon this forum. You remind me of Marshall, if that worthy had donated his brain.

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By Folktruther, October 11, 2009 at 1:15 pm Link to this comment

Your 2:49 pm comment was very interesting, Christian. It is quite true that life experiences are more vivid and emotional than political thinking, since this involves policies of millions of people.  These historical policies lack emotional immediacy but nevertheless are quite real, even though we can only feel the effects of the policies.

With TV however, we can feel an aspect of the vividness of emotional life.  In THE ASSAULT ON REASON, Al Gore maintains that the irrationality of the US truth consensus is due to the switch from print media to TV.  We can be more easily emotionally manipulated by TV than we can be the print media.

If people are ever to evolve real democracy, as opposed to the pseudo-Democracy of constrained and rigged elections, people have to learn to think in a simple reasonable way about people and power.  And it is necessary to develop a humane and reasionable emotional reaction to the reasonable political truth that we current have for the power delusions manipulating us.  We must develop strong feelings about the moral rights and wrongs of historical power relations that you experienced in a personal incident.

And learn to handle them in the same way that you did.  You called out this menace and when were told that he was suffering personal problems used common sense and withdrew.  The initial rebuke may make him more careful in the future, but there is no need to involve the police.  When the reps of the people can handle disputes between groupings of people the way you handled a personal conflict, the millennium will have arrived, if not The Christian Millennium.

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By AFriend, October 11, 2009 at 11:53 am Link to this comment

ardee,

You presented no set of facts that others could contrast with my original post on this subject. You presented, as I did, your opinions.

Clearly your intentions are not designed to hold a meaningful dialog.

—-

christian96,

I have never played professional football. I have, however, paid attention to the World Cup and believe I understand the results.

Report this

By ardee, October 11, 2009 at 11:14 am Link to this comment

AFriend, October 11 at 12:20 pm

I find it very interesting how you avoid actually saying anything when your “factual posts” are questioned by real facts….

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By christian96, October 11, 2009 at 10:49 am Link to this comment

AFriend—-Thanks for the response.  I am not sure
what you mean by “I simply pay attention to real
global events.”  Yesterday evening I was driving
home alone when a truck passed me on double yellow
lines almost hitting me.  He then drove about 50
yards and made a sharp left turn at a high speed
into a condo complex.  He could have easily followed
me 50 yards and made his left turn.  I followed him
into the complex to his condo.  When he got out of
the truck we had words then he went into his condo.
I got out of my car to write his lis. number to call
the police when his wife or friend came out and
kindly ask what happened.  When I explained she
responded, “He is upset because he has problems
within his family.”  I got back into my car and left
deciding to forget the incident even though I realize
if he is emotionally distraught he shouldn’t be
jeopardizing his and others lives on the highway.
Now that was a real event.  I experienced it.  I don’t understand how you pay attention to “real
global events” for example in Iraq or Afghanistian
where you don’t experience them.

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By AFriend, October 11, 2009 at 9:20 am Link to this comment

ardee,

You do have an incredible grasp of events as presented through the media. This may be part of the reason why you see things in my posts that are not there.

There’s a world that Kings and Presidents reside in. The world of history, global markets, standing armies, treaties, border disputes, diplomacy and enemies who wish others true harm etc.. It is in this world which Kings and Presidents have no choice but to make their decisions.

We can contrast that world with the media world, I freely admit, you know so very well.

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By ardee, October 11, 2009 at 8:46 am Link to this comment

AFriend, October 11 at 9:03 am #

ardee,

I believe if you spend more of your time gathering information which does not originate from the 20 minute media cycle you may better comprehend world events.

In the face of your original post:
AFriend, October 11 at 1:57 am #

in which you posted your own opinion and interpretation of events and occurrences and nothing more, or less, I find this latest response quite lacking. You demonstrate exactly the behavior you condemn in others, and fail to see it. We here, at least some of us, do not fail.

Your post listed a series of conclusions about events, conclusions you undoubtedly accept from those to whom you claim political kinship, those who agendize news and place opinion as fact. Thus your accusation becomes self-accusatory. Silly really.

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By AFriend, October 11, 2009 at 6:12 am Link to this comment

christian96,

I simply pay attention to real global events. I have long found that staying clear from the “news media” is my greatest aid.

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By AFriend, October 11, 2009 at 6:03 am Link to this comment

ardee,

I believe if you spend more of your time gathering information which does not originate from the 20 minute media cycle you may better comprehend world events.

You habitually misconstrue the written word. If I may; the idea is to listen to others in both what they say or write and why they say or write them. If you simply take note of your own emotions while others share their points of view you will always miss the context.

—-

ardee, I applaud you tremendously for staying away from injecting any personal attacks in your response. Your reply came from the heart and you kept it honest. Much appreciated!

Report this

By christian96, October 11, 2009 at 5:40 am Link to this comment

AFriend——How do you know about these positive
accomplishments you discuss?  Did you learn
about them on the evening news?  Or did you
read about them in a newspaper or magazine?
Or is it some ILLUSION inside your head?

Report this

By ardee, October 11, 2009 at 5:22 am Link to this comment

One wonders how to deal with such a paean to slaughter as AFriend posts.

The conflict in Iraq was successful because we managed to gather so many in one place and slaughter them, including an estimated one million innocent civilians, but no matter that.No matter that there was no AlQaeda present in Iraq until we invaded that benighted nation either.

That this poster sees a puppet govt., one virtually trapped in Kabul, as consensual rather than exploitative, corrupt and propped up by our military must give any thinking human being pause as well.

That the Taliban was removed, AlQaeda weakened and another 9/11 prevented is the exact thought process of a Dick Cheney/George Bush clone . For a removed group we seem to be dying from their actions, and to cite a lack of attack seems to ignore the attacks occurring almost daily in a number of places. Perhaps this poster advocates we send troops to Mombai, or Islamabad next?

While AFriend basks in the glow of “reasonable and acceptable casualties” I wonder why he fails to consider the toll among the civilian population in both places. I also wonder why he thinks the destruction of this nation’s reputation and economy are acceptable casualties as well. Iraq once had the very best hospitals in that region of the world, once Baghdad was a cosmopolitan and worldly city, now they have no medicines, no reliable electricity or drinking water even yet.

One cannot help but shudder at the thought of what he finds “acceptable”.

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By AFriend, October 10, 2009 at 10:57 pm Link to this comment

Afghanistan is a messy war, but so far it has been conducted with a minimum loss of American life while achieving some important goals. We can argue about current strategies, fault what’s been done in the past, deplore the length of the war, lament its cost, or blame each other for its inconclusiveness, but the facts remain that we removed the Taliban, weakened al Qaeda in the region, fostered a consensual government in the most unlikely of places, and helped to prevent another catastrophic attack on our nation originating from that part of the world — and did all this with a degree of skill that is reflected in losses that by historical standards are quite moderate.

The key is to remain flexible and adaptable. What worked in 2001 to rout the Taliban with a minimum of human and material losses may not work in 2009 to keep insurgents from attacking the fragile democracy. Often counterinsurgency is not at odds with, but complementary to, ongoing counterterrorism operations. And despite the demagoguery, our efforts in Iraq may not have been antithetical to those in Afghanistan but oddly synergistic, as thousands of jihadists flocked to the “main theater,” where it was much easier for the American military to deal with them — as the enormous jihadist losses in Iraq, and the relative quiet there now, attest.

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By Folktruther, October 10, 2009 at 2:13 am Link to this comment

PSmith, that is exactly how I do spend my days, wondering which bits were lies and which truth.  Escabar lent himself to the fraud of the Irani Stolen Election apparently.  but he seems reliable on pipelines and the pipeline war.  Or at least as near a reliable source as we have.

The choice is often not between the bad and the good, but the bad and the worse.

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By KDelphi, October 9, 2009 at 9:44 pm Link to this comment

why doesnt this say a “peace” of absurdity now??

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By christian96, October 9, 2009 at 9:35 pm Link to this comment

I am presently watching “The American Ruling Class”
on Link TV.  I would recommend the program to those
of you on the site not familiar with it.  Link TV
is indpendently run.  They could use your donation
and you will receive a copy of the film.  The
number for Link is 1-866-485-8848.  If you don’t
receive Link it’s probably because you are on a
cable company.  Leave the cable and get DISH TV and
you will receive Link along with Free Speech Channel.  If you are an intelligent person who is
curious about what America is truly about you will
enjoy leaving a cable company and joining DISH TV.

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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, October 9, 2009 at 3:37 am Link to this comment

By Aziz Khan Yousafzai, October 8 at 11:59 pm #

Thanks for the very insightful perspective.

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Ouroborus's avatar

By Ouroborus, October 8, 2009 at 10:21 pm Link to this comment

PSmith, October 9 at 12:14 am #
Folktruther, October 9 at 1:07 am #

Let’s not throw out the baby with the bath water;
Escobar has done some good reporting and facts are
facts. Le Carre is most certainly correct.

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By Folktruther, October 8, 2009 at 10:07 pm Link to this comment

I didn’t know that about Escabar, Psmith.  and Le Carre is write, most media truth is bought or influenced.  The US has 200 thousand secret agents, a goodly fraction in the media.

Still, he seems to know his pipelines.  since all the mainstream media sources are corrupt, with only a few exceptions, one has to take what expertise they will emit occasionally, cautioned, as you say, by their past perfidity.

Ourbus, who are you calling a whacko.  I think you are inherit were responsible for 9/11.  Not any less pluasable than the ‘19 Hijackers.’

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By Aziz Khan Yousafzai, October 8, 2009 at 8:59 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

From an AfPak American
Thank u so much for simplifying a ‘complex’ situation to the nation;
I am a proud American, offering the best of myself, including my life for my adopted country. On the other hand, I was born in Nothern Pakistan, particularly in Pashtun/afghan family. I was brought up to love the land & be part of greater Pashtun/afghan nation on either side of Pak/Afghan border, drawn by British colonists.
After 8 years of war, with an urgent decision to be made by the President Obama,Bob please help clarify a few things to American public as in your this article.
First, who’s the looser in this war? the ground reality inicates American public (slowing economy, job loss, healthcare, education) & Pashtun nation, on either side of afPak border; hundred of thousands killed, millions displaced, millions left with no social services and millions without education and left to face other human miseries.
The winners, in broader sense, are Russia, China, Iran, India, as well as Defence complex in the U.S, some politicians,writing pundits, publishers, non-Pashtun minority junta in Kabul,some Pakistani military generals & politicians.

A few myths, this war is based on or playing major role in it:
that all Pashtuns are Taliban
the fact is Taliban happen to be probably 1% of Pashtun, trained & financed by Pakistani intelligence agencies (according to Pak media) with the blessings of the U.S.
The myth, that Pashtuns are anti-U.S or West,
the fact is Pashtuns are as pro-life, pro-family (not in u.s. cons terminology), for progress, development, education & peacful living as any body else in the world.
The myth that Taliban & Al qaida are the same.
the fact is Al Qaida was in Afghanistan long before Taliban movement was born,(the birth of Al Qaida as you mentioned in your article).
The myth that Al Qaida will move in soon after U.S. leave Afghanistan, when Taliban will be in power.

the fact is,  as in a broken down urban neighborhood in the U.S. nobody invites drug dealers & prostitues to move in, Pashtuns/afghans never invited Al Qaida to Afghanistan, except the charity organisations.
The lastest intellegence reports in media indicates that even if Taliban are accomodated back in power in Kabul, their expereince in aftermath of 9/11, Al Qaida return will not happen.

It is high time that our leaders think hard and separate American people interests from all the other beneficiaries of this war, and go back to where it all begin, that is with Soviet-invasion of Afghanistan where Afghans(with more than that 67% Pashtuns) and Pakistanis (again mostly Pashtun/Baloch areas) alongwith security agencies fought& defeated the once invincible Soviet Red army, which resulted in crumbling the Red empire., without a single human loss to the U.S
But alongwith way, the two nation of Afghanistan & Pakistan, particularly ethnic Pashtuns on either side of border, were suffered beyond imigination. Its time the United States of America help build those two countries in every field of nation-building which is long 0ver-due, bring our men & women in uniform back home safe with dignity and proclaim the moral victory & prove to the world its unique character.

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Ouroborus's avatar

By Ouroborus, October 8, 2009 at 6:52 pm Link to this comment

Inherit The Wind, October 8 at 8:00 pm #

Accepted, thank you.

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By Inherit The Wind, October 8, 2009 at 5:00 pm Link to this comment

Ouroborus, October 8 at 7:23 am #

Inherit The Wind, October 8 at 6:28 am #
Give me a break, Ouroborus—not those old conspiracy
theories that Mossad or Bush himself attacked the WTC
and that Al Qaeda and the Taliban are pure as driven
snow…
=======================================
Addendum; WTF? Don’t you dare link me with those
wackos! Where the hell did you get that? Did you read
what I said? Jeez…............

**************************************

Whoops!  Sorry. My apologies, Ouroborus.  I inferred far too much.

unlinking….......

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By Thierno, October 8, 2009 at 12:10 pm Link to this comment
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Does Al-Qaeda exist in the first place to start with? Or it was a brand name created to invade the ME, and Muslim countries, steal their oil, gas and natural resources.  Somebody need to figure this stuff out.  Millions of people have been killed for no reason at all, who have nothing at all to do with Al-Qaeda.

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By Folktruther, October 8, 2009 at 10:47 am Link to this comment

Thanks for the excellant link to Escabar, Ourbus.  You notice he doesn’t mention the pipeline through Afghanistan to the Arabian sea, which appears dead.  China is waiting to build one through Afghanistan to Iran as soon as the war is over, already having built some roads there.

It may be that the occupation of Afghanistan plays some role in the pipeline wars, but Escabar says that these are largely settled.  I didn’t know that the US is putting bases in Bulgaria, possibly to attack Iran or even Russia. 

It appears that the US has not yet given up on controlling central Asia, the imperialist plot of Zbig in THE GRAND CHESSBOARD. And the Afpak war may figure in this somehow in a way that I don’t see clearly.  So its conceivable that you are right, the war may be at least partially about oil.

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By scottpot, October 8, 2009 at 10:45 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

War is how the government spends your tax money so there is no money left for
healthcare ,education,decent mass transit,etc. It keeps Americans ignorant about the world because most Americans only have a 2 week vacation and haven·t set foot outside their country.They get their knowledge from television propaganda. It is why Americans are hated by half the world.

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By dr wu, October 8, 2009 at 10:33 am Link to this comment

Why are gas and oil never mentioned in the talks over what to do in Afghanistan?

Outside of us being in Afghanistan as an energy pipeline protection force, I do not see the purpose of our being there. 8 years ago it was to find Osama bin laden, still no luck, and he is probably in Pakistan and the guys who rammed the planes into the WTC trained in Dresden ,Germany as well as the USA. Then there is the argument that we got to get them there or else they’ll come here and create havoc. But people can prepare to attack the US from anywhere in the world—Af/Pak, Dresden, New York or ???.

What was needed in Afghanistan was police/spy work; not invasion. Our military overthrew the Taliban—the mainly Pushtun group,  and Afghanistan’s largest minority (43%), and put the smaller minority Tajiks in power. Guess what? The uproar continues .

Solution-get out now as our being there only causes more friction and let the Pushtuns and the Tajiks work it out.

Unless, of course, we’re there as a energy pipeline protection force. Even so, this is a bad neighborhood for us to be in. China and Russia want their energy routes in this part of the world and we want ours. India and Pakistan are killer enemies and we are foolish to step in the middle of it. So, if oil and gas is your game, then fight it out in this tough arena and the hell with the toll in deaths and revenue—if not, get the hell out.

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By Bud, October 8, 2009 at 10:03 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Total cost for the two ridiculousy stupid wars to date:Over nine hundred BILLION DOLLARS!!However,the good old USA is fighting for the American way of life.Well,let’s examine the American way of life;seven dollar an hour jobs without benefits,unemployment,45,000 Americans per year dying for lack of healthcare,massive corruption with our congressional representatives,wholesale exportation of GOOD PAYING AMERICAN JOBS,poverty at its highest level ever,and last but not least folks,RAMPANT HUNGER in this the WEALTHIEST country in the world.Yep,wer’re protecting the AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE alright!!Get the picture,because if you don’t,you are either a war monger,or REALLY STUPID!!!

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By Virginia777, October 8, 2009 at 9:07 am Link to this comment

What are we fighting for?

Great piece, Robert Scheer.

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By chuckwalla, October 8, 2009 at 6:23 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I wrote yesterday of the alienation and despair of American soldiers in the AfPak counterinsurgency, and its similarity to Vietnam, where I served in the 5th ID near the (then) DMZ in Quang Tri Province.  Today there is an article: (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/Afghanistan/article6865359.ece
  from the Times Online on what are described as “morale problems” in a 10th Mountain Div. battalion.  The feelings and opinions of the soldiers interviewed are exactly like those of soldiers in Vietnam. Trust me on this.  History repeats itself, and what a bitter farce it is for those who have to live with the wounds.

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By Ouroborus, October 8, 2009 at 4:23 am Link to this comment

Inherit The Wind, October 8 at 6:28 am #
Give me a break, Ouroborus—not those old conspiracy
theories that Mossad or Bush himself attacked the WTC
and that Al Qaeda and the Taliban are pure as driven
snow…
=======================================
Addendum; WTF? Don’t you dare link me with those
wackos! Where the hell did you get that? Did you read
what I said? Jeez…............

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By Ouroborus, October 8, 2009 at 4:19 am Link to this comment

Inherit The Wind, October 8 at 6:28 am #

No, YOU give ME a break; conspiracy theories?
Conspiracy by who against whom? You got the wrong guy!
I’m talking about our policies/strategies which are
exposed/reported by legitimate reporters and
investigative journalists. If you don’t agree with me
fine; but please drop the hyperbole.

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By Inherit The Wind, October 8, 2009 at 3:28 am Link to this comment

Give me a break, Ouroborus—not those old conspiracy theories that Mossad or Bush himself attacked the WTC and that Al Qaeda and the Taliban are pure as driven snow…

Here we go again.  We’ll never agree on anything because I think your basic premise is absurd—and you build all your arguments on it.  Besides, Afghanistan is known as the Killer of Empires—just ask the Soviet Union or the British Empire.  Only because the mission WAS well-defined and the bulk of the world was behind us (including, I might add, Iran—there goes your premise) were we so successful—-until Bush drained the troops and equipment away to fight the idiotic war in Iraq.

Amazing that FT and I are in near-agreement on this.  I’m not sure what Obama will do…I hope FT is wrong about Afghanistan but I fear he is right (5%!).

Actually, I suspect Obama may keep us there but completely re-define our “mission” to make it much more limited, putting more Afghanis out front and moving the US more into the background.  I’m not thrilled about how that will work, but I think more boots on the ground mean a very different mission than our reason for being there, and drag us into the same mess the Brits and Soviets faced.

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By ardee, October 8, 2009 at 2:59 am Link to this comment

With kudos to ardee for Tinyurl; this one was 107
characters.  ;D

Thanks for the kudos, Ouroborus, and even more thanks for exposing Daniel in such fashion. I had my doubts but failed to follow through, as did you.

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By Ouroborus, October 8, 2009 at 12:50 am Link to this comment

Folktruther, October 8 at 1:49 am #
I don’t think so, Ourbus.  The oil pipeline is long
gone.
=============================================
Well, not according to Pepe Escobar and some other
sources; he’s been particularly keen on covering this
story. I’m searching for the other articles and I think
Gareth Porter has covered this as well. Here’s one
link;

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/KJ03Ag01.html

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By Bill Jones, October 7, 2009 at 11:43 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

To the extent that “Al Qaeda ” exists at all, Its the CIA’s Foreign Legion. It will reappear wherever the warmongers need it to.

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By Folktruther, October 7, 2009 at 10:49 pm Link to this comment

I don’t think so, Ourbus.  The oil pipeline is long gone.  the basic problem is that the US can’t withdraw without losing the leadership of Nato, causing Obama to lose the next election.  As Inherit says, there is no point in being there.  Except we are there, committed militarily.  It is much easier to start wars than to stop them.  Even when there is nothing to win, you lose by withdrawing.  It’s a lose-lose situation, one of the many disastrous leftovers from the Bushites.

If the ruling class wern’t primarily Republican, he ould blame it on the Gops.  But they control the media, so any media shouting match is a loser.  since Obama is committed to looking forward, not backward, he will stay in the Afpak region and fight not only a pointless war, but one which will damange the US in the world’s eyes even if they could win it.  Which they can’t. 

the pretense of fighting Al Qaida alone is absurd.  Why do you need a hundred thosand troops to fight a hundred guerillas?  But since the American people know or care nothing abuut geo-strategic considerations, maybe Obama can spout some inspiring bullshit, howerver absurd, and wiggle to a less destructive position.  One that he helped put himself in.

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By Ouroborus, October 7, 2009 at 10:35 pm Link to this comment

Daniel, October 7 at 12:01 pm #
For whatever it is worths, the picture accompanying
this article is a fake.  Why was it used?  Ask the
Truthdig editor.
===============================================
Actually, you’re wrong; the picture is real.
Here’s a link to pictures of Naray, Afghanistan. It’s
drop dead gorgious.

http://tinyurl.com/y9tg7a8

With kudos to ardee for Tinyurl; this one was 107
characters.  ;D

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By Ouroborus, October 7, 2009 at 7:47 pm Link to this comment

Inherit The Wind, October 7 at 10:07 pm #

Neither Al Qaeda or the Taliban have anything to do
with why we’re in (rather remain) Afghanistan. If
that were the reason then it wouldn’t make sense, but
it’s not. Oil/energy is why we’ll remain there. With
our policy of full spectrum dominance, we’ll likely
bomb Iran, because they have too much gas and oil
with which they can pursue their agendas “independent
of our control”. We’ll use the lies, which are being
spread as I type this, regarding their nuclear
ambitions. An independent Iran is unacceptable to our
hegemonic plans for the ME and South Asia. Iran has
done the same thing Iraq was going to do; sell oil
and not accept the dollar as currency for those
sales. Unfortunately Iran is doomed.
It seems to me that when this scenario is looked at;
then what the US is doing makes sense. Scheer didn’t
even broach this and thereby his article is flawed
and weak, IMO.

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By Inherit The Wind, October 7, 2009 at 7:07 pm Link to this comment

I’m not a fan of Scheer.  People here know that. I think he has made, however, a compelling argument for a RADICAL review of our “mission” in Afghanistan.  Very few of the various mad, radical and even racist posters on this thread seem to get this.  Strangely, my sometimes pal and frequent nemesis, Folktruther does.

Scheer’s point about Al Qaeda becoming extinct in Afghanistan is like the discovery that there WERE no WMDs in Iraq, despite Bush’s 150,000 to 200,000 “inspectors”.  I saw many (certainly not all) ardent rabid supporters of the Iraq war stop in shock when they realized the reason to be there didn’t exist—that it never existed and they had been lied to.

So…when the reason you enter a war doesn’t exist, either because it has become extinct or never did, then isn’t it time to get out, or, at least, do a SERIOUS evaluation of your “mission” there?

I HOPE the President is seeing it this way, and ignoring the drum-beating chickenhawks on the right, always SO eager so sacrifice somebody ELSE’s sons’ and daughters’ lives.

Remember: Neo-Cons are reduced to saying “Well, we got rid of the evil dictator, Saddam”.  Yeah, we all know he was a bastard, but he wasn’t OUR problem.  Do we want to be reduced to saying “Well, at least we are holding the Taliban at bay….”  Yeah, well, I’m not sure I want our kids dying for that—let Afghanis send THEIR kids to battle them.

Sorry to be so cold, but it’s their problem.

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By Ouroborus, October 7, 2009 at 6:45 pm Link to this comment

WriterOnTheStorm, October 7 at 2:54 pm #
What we don’t know is what the people of Afghanistan
want. Sure, they want the big western empire out, who
wouldn’t?
===========================================
Hell, I want the big western empire out of America.

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By PatrickHenry, October 7, 2009 at 6:23 pm Link to this comment

The Taliban are merely the Republicans of Afghanistan, we are fighting their Democrats as well.

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By the worm, October 7, 2009 at 4:25 pm Link to this comment

With Obama’s decision not to begin drawing down troops in Afghanistan, those
who thought the President a ditherer, will, i fear, begin to think him a fool. Pitty.
The man who thought those who voted for him might be surprised at his real
policies and thoughts is certainly correct. He may be surprised a how few come
out and support him in the next election.

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By Folktruther, October 7, 2009 at 1:55 pm Link to this comment

Obama is taking a long time to buid up the political theater for more Change you Can Believe In.  the public relations problem is escalating the war when the public is against it.  So here in fantasyland he must do his standard ploy.  He will announce that we have won the war against AL Quida and so can withdraw, then escalate the number of troops to increase the US bargaining position.  And Dems will applaud; after all do you wnat the Gops to fight the war?

So I predict, but the US population is so easy to manipulate with the truth system entirely in the plutocracies’ hands, possibly some other public relations apporach will be used.

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By KDelphi, October 7, 2009 at 1:35 pm Link to this comment

“...troops to fight an enemy that has relocated elsewhere? Because of the blind belief, in the minds of those like John McCain, determined to “win” in Afghanistan, that if we don’t escalate, al-Qaida will inevitably come back.”

Just McCain?? What planet am I on?

Commune15—Yes. “There are clear, imperial objectives here involving energy trade routes, keeping US bases near China and Russia and other projects the Pentagon keeps churning out. These are not completely irrational people. I recommend the Asia Times articles by Pepe Escobar who has done an excellent job reporting on this.” I will check this out on another pc—thanks.

Keep talking to montanawildhack. I’m sure no one else does. Open a hoop and some here will always jump through it.

The rest of the article, I mostly agree. It is about feeding the Pentagon that bites you in the ass with campaigns by generals, (that you appointed against best advice—- a war criminal) in the public sphere, no less.

Of course McCain is going to “oppose Obama”—he ran against him remember? If 40,000 more troops passes with Obama and the GOP, the Dems are in a hell of alot of trouble.

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By christian96, October 7, 2009 at 12:59 pm Link to this comment

Has American tobacco, soft drinks(sodas), and fast
food made it’s way into Afghanistan?

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By bogi666, October 7, 2009 at 12:28 pm Link to this comment

WriteronrtheStorm, how dare you have the audacity to take what the people of Afghanistan would want into considerations or even ask them what they want. Such subversiveness is unacceptable, perhaps illegal even, and big brother is watching.

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By WriterOnTheStorm, October 7, 2009 at 11:54 am Link to this comment

We know what the oil companies want. We know what some in the gov’t want. We
know what Scheer wants. We know what the left and the right want. What we don’t
know is what the people of Afghanistan want. Sure, they want the big western
empire out, who wouldn’t? But would they trade that for Taliban fascism, the
sequel?

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By chuckwalla, October 7, 2009 at 11:01 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I can assure you that once the absurdity of their sacrifice sinks in, returning Afghan vets will be boiling with a similar rage and bitterness we Vietnam “military slaves” felt when we realized we’d been used and abused by elite chickenhawks.  As to how that rage works itself out here in the U.S., well, that’s anybody’s guess.  In Russia, its Afghan vets became major players and enforcers in a Wild West criminal kleptocracy under the drunkard president Boris Yeltsin, a post-Soviet period ballyhooed by Western economic “intellectuals” (including Lawrence Summers) as a “free market miracle”.  Afghan vets helped themselves to booty at gunpoint, in some cases forcing fellow Russians out of their homes, permanently.  The present administration just doesn’t realize it’s playing with fire, or is too blind and arrogant to consider the domestic unwind of this criminal Af-Pak folly.

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By Folktruther, October 7, 2009 at 11:01 am Link to this comment

Good old Scheer.  Everyone once in a while he forsakes the manistream truth and just emits common sense, prudence be damned.  I liked some of his LATimes columns for the same reason.

Ourbus, you shouldn’t report racists.  It’s good to know what they are thinking and how thick on the ground they are, and how people respond to them.

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By Dave Schwab, October 7, 2009 at 10:03 am Link to this comment

Yesterday, the U.S. Senate approved the largest military budget bill in the history of our nation: $626 billion.

Next, the bill will be sent to a conference committee and then back to the House and Senate for final passage.

There remains a short window of opportunity to stop this wasteful military madness.

Tell your members of Congress to vote “NO” on the 2010 defense appropriations bill:

http://bit.ly/stopfundingwar

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By Daniel, October 7, 2009 at 9:01 am Link to this comment

For whatever it is worths, the picture accompanying this article is a fake.  Why was it used?  Ask the Truthdig editor.

I have been in Afghanistan several times, traveling all over this beautiful country, from north to south and east to west. Naray is near the eastern border with Pakistan, near Gardez. The lanscape there is mountainous, rocky, and dry, nothing like this “Swiss-like” landscape in the picture.  Also, there are no herds of cows in Afghanistan: a farmer is lucky if he possesses one cow or one donkey…

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By Jim Yell, October 7, 2009 at 8:11 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The only thing I feel sorry about in Afghanistan is the previous abuse by the Taliban of Afghanistan women. They were unable to get proper medical care and could not earn a living and were subject to impulsive punishments by these rather deformed members of Islam.

But, we must ask the question are we actually creating a lasting reform for Afghanistan? The answer is no. We will remain a resented foreign army, no matter how much we spend in rebuilding and in fact we spend much more in killing and destroying the homes of the people. It is a lose—lose operation.

My other concern involving us, is the vandalism that the Taliban has shown towards the remains of the Buddist culture of Afghanistan, but in truth there is little we can do, unless we would bother to detach the Buddist area and give it to the United Nations to administer (keep in mind there is no Buddist presence), but that would require an army too. It just isn’t worth it.

We need to tend our own garden and stop trying to help, which is mostly defeated by our own group of greedy, arrogant and nasty expansionists.

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By Sleeper, October 7, 2009 at 8:04 am Link to this comment

This is a War of absurdity, Sheer lays it out well.  I also liked the earlier link to Chomski’s explaination as to why we are there in the first place.  Obama’s appointments display that he is on board with the Mc Chysatal nation building. 

The costs to our youth to control the business of global enterprizes is more then we should bear.  Green Power can reduce our need to control this market.  We can export Green Power.  We can put our nation to work vurses sending our youth to War for global entities.

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By G.S. Patton, October 7, 2009 at 7:49 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

More left-wing propaganda…input even from the ridiculous 911 conspiracy
theorits(the twin towers exploded, are these people blind? They pancaked
under the weight from the top floors when their foundations melted from jet-
fuel fire, doubtful that fire-retardant covering the beams would have done
much as it was meant to tackle less intense internal ‘office’ or electrical fires.

I love how these arm-chair quarterbacks like retired (!) generals and that
Zbignew moron(remember the Iranian diplomatic hostages and the disastrous
rescue attempt by a very weakend military under his watch) try to influence
policy when the troops and ground-commander’s advice is more important.
These people sitting in their comfortable sofas are not in Afghanistan/
Pakistan, how the heck do they know what is happening on the ground, do
they have spies in the Al Qaeda/Taliban leadership, I doubt it, otherwise we
would have the GPS coordinations to Osama, Ayman or even that traitor, Adam
the Amerikan.

Just more garbage in, garbage out…

I know my response will be attacked by you lefties but you don’t know what’s
happening in the frontlines, neither do I, you are not undercover in Waziristan
for the CIA/MI6 are you, not me either.

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By Jon, October 7, 2009 at 7:35 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

It’s just a make work project for the military industrial complex.  I’m continually amazed that the military continues to be able to scam the American people and to get Obama’s attention, while domestic issues such as NO INDUSTRY, NO JOBS, and Health Care just drift along as if unimportant.  What is the military keeping us safe from?  They did nothing on 911, that is for sure, standing down and sending jets out to sea as they did.  The military is just a self-serving money sink, and needs to be dramatically cut back in scope and cost.  We have better things to do with that 400+ billion dollars a year than to suppor a war game for generals to play with American lives.  Anyone under 40 who disagrees, I hope you sign up with your recruiter TODAY!

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By Hulk2008, October 7, 2009 at 7:35 am Link to this comment

Fear not, montanawildhack.  It’s the Fuzzy Caterpiller Room for you.  (Netanyahu said to spare you this time.)

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By Rob, October 7, 2009 at 7:28 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

It is amusing that Scheer and this club actually think Obama can do anything about this.  That Obama has any actual power, is the biggest farce of all.  I guess, if you’re on the left, you really don’t have any real hope though.

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By AmiBlue, October 7, 2009 at 7:04 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

There is no indication that any of the contending forces in Afghanistan, including the Taliban, are interested in bringing al-Qaida back. On the contrary, all the available evidence indicates that the Arab fighters are unwelcome and that it is their isolation from their former patrons that has led to their demise.

What is your source for this claim, Mr. Scheer?

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By Chandler, October 7, 2009 at 7:03 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Our troops should not be used for the constrruction of a pipeline.  With billions of dollars missing, while our troops remain in a country where only an estimated 100 Al-Qaida fighters exist makes no sense at all.  I believe every excuse is being used to keep us there as long as possible so private corporations can complete a oil pipeline as originally intended.  With Osama being dead since December or 01, and the Iraq embassy being built basically under secrecy while the prosituted mainstream media avoided reporting anything about it, it is highly likely a pipeline is being hurriedly constructed along the original path previously planned long before lil ol; Georgie boy was handed the presidency illegally by this illustrious Supreme Court.  Our government is totally out of hand, uncooperative and truly is now a monster on the loose like the rock group Steppenwolf wrote back in the ‘60’S. Thgis song was most prophetic and is probably the greatest song ever written.  It has all come true today, right before our very eyes while we sat around watching our TV shows.

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By Tom Semioli, October 7, 2009 at 6:54 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Why? War is good business.

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By Random Items, October 7, 2009 at 6:47 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

War what is it good for?
Cheney and friends, time to move on.

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By bogi666, October 7, 2009 at 6:45 am Link to this comment

Since McChrystal took over in AfPak the situation there has deteriorated. Just why does he qualify as an expert there since what he has done has just made things worse?

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By bogi666, October 7, 2009 at 6:42 am Link to this comment

A general, McChrystal, clamoring for war, how quaint, original and most of all surprising. The Pentagon just wants to conduct wars for the sake of victory. This is not only absurd it’s insanity. Victory can be declared any time during a conflict. As for insane McLame putting in his two centavos, he’s a war criminal for bombing civilians and a traitor for violating the Uniform Code of Military Justice and has never tasted victory in combat even on a personal level, he spent all his time as a POW and wouldn’t know victory if he saw it. He’s a loser. If President Obushama had any courage he would fire McChrystal for insubordination and Gates and Patreus for allowing insubordination as McChrystal violated military regulations by giving unauthorized speeches that are meant to undermine civilian authority by Obushama. There is a power play going on by the Pentagon to take over the government of the U.S.[GUS] overtly. The PENTAGON IS ALREADY THE GOVERNMENT INSIDE THE GOVERNMENT WITH Wall St. being another branch of the government inside the government. Obushama just doesn’t seem to be up to the task of being the POTUS.

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By Gordy, October 7, 2009 at 6:41 am Link to this comment

What a mess.  Dr Strangelove rules this world.

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By Revere, October 7, 2009 at 5:39 am Link to this comment

It is Eisenhower’s prophesy of the rise of the military industrial complex, it is the current power structure all bloated and primed for full spectrum dominance in outer space, inner space, and into the human soul as well if a method can be devised to control that ethereal territory in godlike fashion.  So what force is behind such a devilish scheme?  From the Western perspective you could use George H.W. Bush’s term, the New World Order, but it isn’t really necessary to put a moniker on it.  Who will be in position to grab the brass ring when all of the technology and geopolitics have been properly aligned?  Why of course, it is those who contrived all of it before it occurred, but who are also well practiced over generations in seizing opportunity; Hint: they contrived Marx, Lennon and Mao with money from you and me.  Of course, throughout history little individuals have taken their turns such as Napoleon, or murderous functionaries like Hitler or Cheney (yes, he salivates for it too like Pavlov’s dog) and others present, or yet to appear on the scene.  Let’s face it; the highest beneficiaries don’t take credit for their concoctions.  I smell the moneyed elite over there, ala the “committee of 300”, or the Fabian Socialists, or however you wish to quantify power movements over time.  It is the same invisible force (but a bit more clear now thanks to the Internet) that gave us one front man after another on a limited menu of approved presidential candidates as rolled out by their contrived and controlled media outlets.  They play one party against the other inside of our heads until we are indignant, dizzy, then hopeful, but the original agenda remains unchanged.  And so it shall be a new social order for the citizens of the “Homeland” if Central Asia can be taken, then followed by Russia and China.  The current wars will end happily for our side, leaving no enemies to dominate other than those who were convinced to do the grunt work, those who were inspired to glory as they were frothed-up, gleefully cheering army generals in Super Bowl pre-game ceremonies.  Thus it seems that if we succeed in conquering central Asia and homogenizing those cultures too, we are the ones ultimately doomed.  Cheer up, maybe we will run out of money before it gets that far.

Related:

Sir Halford Mackinder, circa 1919: “Who rules East Europe commands the Heartland; Who rules the heartland commands the World Island; Who rules the World Island commands the World.”

Zbigniew Brzezinski, circa 1997: “To put it in a terminology that harkens back to the more brutal age of ancient empires, the three grand imperatives of imperial geostrategy are to prevent collusion and maintain security dependence among the vassals, to keep tributaries pliant and protected, and to keep the barbarians from coming together.”

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By Revere, October 7, 2009 at 5:30 am Link to this comment

It is Eisenhower’s prophesy of the rise of the military industrial complex, it is the current power structure all bloated and primed for full spectrum dominance in outer space, inner space, and into the human soul as well if a method can be devised to control that ethereal territory in godlike fashion.  So what force is behind such a devilish scheme?  From the Western perspective you could use George H.W. Bush’s term, the New World Order, but it isn’t really necessary to put a moniker on it.  Who will be in position to grab the brass ring when all of the technology and geopolitics have been properly aligned?  Why of course, it is those who contrived all of it before it occurred, but who are also well practiced over generations in seizing opportunity; Hint: they contrived Marx, Lennon and Mao with money from you and me.  Of course, throughout history little individuals have taken their turns such as Napoleon, or murderous functionaries like Hitler or Cheney (yes, he salivates for it too like Pavlov’s dog) and others present, or yet to appear on the scene.  Let’s face it; the highest beneficiaries don’t take credit for their concoctions.  I smell the moneyed elite over there, ala the “committee of 300”, or the Fabian Socialists, or however you wish to quantify power movements over time.  It is the same invisible force (but a bit more clear now thanks to the Internet) that gave us one front man after another on a limited menu of approved presidential candidates as rolled out by their contrived and controlled media outlets.  They play one party against the other inside of our heads until we are indignant, dizzy, then hopeful, but the original agenda remains unchanged.  And so it shall be a new social order for the citizens of the “Homeland” if Central Asia can be taken, then followed by Russia and China.  The current wars will end happily for our side, leaving no enemies to dominate other than those who were convinced to do the grunt work, those who were inspired to glory as they were frothed-up, gleefully cheering army generals in Super Bowl pre-game ceremonies.  Thus it seems that if we succeed in conquering central Asia and homogenizing those cultures too, we are the ones ultimately doomed.  Cheer up, maybe we will run out of money before it gets that far.
Related:

Sir Halford Mackinder, circa 1919: “Who rules East Europe commands the Heartland; Who rules the heartland commands the World Island; Who rules the World Island commands the World.”

Zbigniew Brzezinski, circa 1997: “To put it in a terminology that harkens back to the more brutal age of ancient empires, the three grand imperatives of imperial geostrategy are to prevent collusion and maintain security dependence among the vassals, to keep tributaries pliant and protected, and to keep the barbarians from coming together.”

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By myxzptlk, October 7, 2009 at 5:09 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Any sentiment about “winning” in Afghanistan is not only misplaced (it’s an insurgency, not a war), it’s facile political camouflage for the mercenaries and cowards who occupy the chairs in Congress.  And the idea of filling an 8-year strategy vacuum with a long-term, expensive counter-insurgency campaign (to what end?) against a faction that controls 80% of the country is sheer lunacy.

Our government “representatives” seem immune to the reality of our national nosedive, caused in large part by politically motivated adventures like the one in Afghanistan.  They continue to feed the bloodsucking MIC beast while blocking every measure aimed at benefiting the taxpayers who fund everything, giving no thought to the connection between these two incompatible interests.

The Republicans of 15 years ago got one thing right - some values ARE absolute (just not the ones they cynically put forward).  America no longer has the resources to live in a compromise between the needs of its citizens and the insatiable appetites of corporatism.  The latter will only continue to grow, until we decide to stop it.

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By Ouroborus, October 7, 2009 at 5:00 am Link to this comment

I don’t give a damn; I reported all 3 posts that are
completely off topic.

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By Ouroborus, October 7, 2009 at 4:57 am Link to this comment

Shit this thread has been hijacked again by the, the;
where the hell are the mods?

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By thecrow, October 7, 2009 at 4:48 am Link to this comment

“scientists have identified thermate, a chemical used in building demolition, in the dust from the buildings”

Heavyrunner means “nano-thermite”—a next-generation explosive produced in US weapons labs:

http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2009/04/11/the-rest-is-silence/

Will you acknowledge this evidence when Mr. Gage’s independent architects and engineers number 1000 against the government’s compromised handful, Mr. Scheer?

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By thecrow, October 7, 2009 at 4:39 am Link to this comment

“it would seem that some of our leaders need the Afghanistan battleground more than the terrorists do”

Maybe what “our leaders” most need is a right-of-way that looks something like this:

http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2009/05/11/the-gas-must-flow/

And “less than 100” is less than the “collateral damage” from this strike alone.

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By wanked, October 7, 2009 at 4:20 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

War is a moneymaker. Dead civilians = collateral damage, not innocent dead human beings. End of story.

There has never been a good war. There has never been a bad peace.

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By Doug Wilson, October 7, 2009 at 3:58 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“I find it interesting that Scheer didn’t broach the
subject of energy. Energy defines our entire behavior
in the ME and South Asia.”

Don’t forget Africa and South America…The effort to monopolize the planets resources is behind every war - ever. Even civil wars - “Control of human Resources and conflict over possession of natural resources” - always backed, or allowed, by other governments.

I finally decided to just make a page on my blog just for this piece by Mahdi Darius Nazemroaya

http://www.dgswilson.com/wp/history-of-world-war-ii/ there are links to his other works there…If you know of any other works that need to be - spread around - put them in as comments there.

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By montanawildhack, October 7, 2009 at 3:57 am Link to this comment

Inherit the Wind,,,

Please forgive me…. I forgot that Axelrod, Emmanuel and Geitner were all Irish…. A thousand pardons….

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By heavyrunner, October 7, 2009 at 3:54 am Link to this comment

Please go on YouTube and watch the events of 9/11/2001.  You will see that two planes strike the Twin Towers.  Huge fireballs explode as the jet fuel is dispersed into the air by the impact with the outer steel frames of the buildings.

Then you will see the fires die down and see some holes in the sides of the buildings with relatively low intensity fires burning inside.  Those fires die down even further and the suddenly the buildings explode.  http://www.ae911truth.org/

Planting the demolition materials in the buildings and then detonating them in a coordinated fashion so that the buildings collapsed into their own footprints as a pile of dust and debris (scientists have identified thermate, a chemical used in building demolition, in the dust from the buildings) is not something that could have been organized from Afghanistan.

So the reasoning that we have been told underlies the involvement of our armed forces in Afghanistan is based upon false pretenses.

No wonder the factual basis we are now given for our presence there is bordering on the absurd.

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By montanawildhack, October 7, 2009 at 3:50 am Link to this comment

Ouroborus,,

The truth often hurts more than a pack of lies… And I promise to work diligently on improving my English skills!!!  Someday I hope to be able to bastardize the English language with the same skill as Unlce Barack and “W” and Bubbha and Big “W” and Ronny etc etc etc….  “The rain in Spain falls mainly on the plain.” How’s that????

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By Inherit The Wind, October 7, 2009 at 3:48 am Link to this comment

Just what we need: A Montana minuteman type crapping on both Jews and Blacks at the same time.  I’m still trying to figure out how these creeps twist facts so that little Israel is able to “somehow” control and direct the policies of the still-strongest nation on earth.  It’s simply not possible. That’s not how power works or how it flows. Never has, never will.

It’s simple, fundamental racism (because, of course, the first Black President, in this scenario, is magically and demonically “in thrall” to the “all-powerful” Jews.)

It detracts from the key thesis of this article—a true game-changer for. The thesis is that Al Qaeda is no longer operating in Afghanistan, and is no longer welcome, even by its former patrons, the Taliban. Al Qaeda is even drying up in Pakistan as all the warm-sand boys from the ME don’t want to freeze and starve in Central Asian mountains, so AQ’s recruitment is down. The logical argument proceeds: If this premise is true, which was our reason for going there, then hasn’t our mission in Afghanistan actually been accomplished, allowing us to withdraw, not with our tails between our legs, but actually victorious?

What it means is that the job IS done, and it is time to leave Afghanistan to the Afghanis, or at least to a UN-run commission, not a US-run one.  Time to take one war off the table.

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By Ouroborus, October 7, 2009 at 3:31 am Link to this comment

montanawildhack, October 7 at 6:26 am #

With a few skills in the English language you could
have gotten your point across in a less offensive way.
And yes, I’m offended.

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By montanawildhack, October 7, 2009 at 3:26 am Link to this comment

The decisions on whether we stay or go in Afghanistan and Iraq are being made in Tel Aviv not Wash DC boys and girls…  The masses cry out, “Why oh why are we in Iraq and Afghanistan???  The waste in blood and treasure??? It makes no sense!”  True, but only if you’re a sane American…. It makes total sense if you’re an Israeli…. Ain’t costen’ them no blood and treasure….  And don’t kid yourself childrens, old Uncle Barack got his marching orders on Afghanistan a long time ago from Tel Aviv… All this head scratchen’ by Uncle Barack about increasing troop strength in Afghanistan is a dog and pony show!!!  “I’s ‘bout scratched a hol complete thru my melon childrens thinken’ on this Afgan siteation…  But, y’all rest sound… Ol’ Uncle Barack gonna do whas bestest for all you’s field n**gers out dar.. Sho nuff…”

If there’s anyone I’ve not offended by this post I apologize from the bottom of my heart….whatever the hell that means…

Please don’t report this post to the Thought Police!!!! Don’t have them take me to the Ministry of Love….. Not room 101!!!! Anything but room 101!!!!

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By Ouroborus, October 7, 2009 at 3:20 am Link to this comment

Commune115, October 7 at 5:14 am #
Thanks for the vid, Chomsky is always a good listen.

I find it interesting that Scheer didn’t broach the
subject of energy. Energy defines our entire behavior
in the ME and South Asia. The Taliban, Al-Qieda,
Iran’s nuclear ambitions (and curiously enough they
have vast reserves of gas and a fair amount of oil)
are all excuses for us to do anything we want. We
cannot allow Iran or Afghanistan to become truly
independent. The U.S. stated a long time ago that
they will not be denied oil and will go to war to
keep/get it. It is no secret why we behave the way we
do. Burma is another recent case in point; they have
large amounts of gas which is even now being
developed by Chevron, which technically is breaking
the sanctions, but hey, it’s energy.
By the way, that is one beautiful picture of
Afghanistan at the beginning of the article, at least
it would be minus the troops and chopper.

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By Paul_GA, October 7, 2009 at 2:52 am Link to this comment

“In the end, it would seem that some of our leaders need the Afghanistan battleground more than the terrorists do.”

Not some of them—virtually ALL of them! Big government needs war, both to justify its being big and to justify its getting bigger. As Randolph Bourne said in his essay 91 years ago, “WAR IS THE HEALTH OF THE STATE.”

But as Sun Tzu said 2,500 years ago in “The Art of War”, “THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A PROTRACTED WAR FROM WHICH A COUNTRY HAS BENEFITTED.” The State may benefit, fellow Truthdiggers—but not you and me.

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By Ivan Hentschel, October 7, 2009 at 2:48 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Nearly every day now, it seems, that I read another one or two articles on how incredulously (now “absurd”) and incomprehensibly pointless this war (is this s war or something else?)has become. The din of protest grows louder each day, but no one in the administration ( so much for change)or the congress seems to hear it.

We pour as much money down this rathole of an exercise in futility as we are throwing at the bailout (see the accompanying article on what else we could be doing with $4T in bailout monies) every day, week and month and for what would appear to be nothing except filling the coffers of the miltary industrial giants. And I do not see them creating any of the much needed jobs we claim to need to save our economy.

We could use a small amunt of this money to fund universal health care in the blink of an eye, and instead we drop bombs on innocent civilians without any solid rationale. This is macho folly gone awry, to become absurdity which belies stupidity.

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By ardee, October 7, 2009 at 2:47 am Link to this comment

“Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. This is the condition of children and barbarians, in whom instinct has learned nothing from experience. “

  George Santayana

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By Mike Butcher, October 7, 2009 at 2:18 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

It seems to me that the terms al-Qaida and Taliban are interchangeable for some in the media.  As to the “corruption” in Afghanistan, it is business as usual and has been for hundreds of years.  It is a culture of bribery and always has been.  Keep up the good fight Bob, I enjoy your posts and listening to you on RLC.

Mike

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