AN ANSER FROM ON HIGH——I was reading through the
comments related to elementary school children singing to our President.  I heard thunder rolling
outside.  I walked outside in my underwear.  Lightning was flashing from one end of heaven to the
other. All at once the lightning EVOLVED into a Paragraph which read, “Write a Grant to get millions
of dollars from the government to produce a TV
program for children to compete singing songs to
the President of these United State of America.”
Place the competition on a weekly TV series etitled
“Children For Our President.”  In order to avoid
influencing elections the program will begin six
months FOLLOWING the election.  The Educational Musical director of each state will design a system
for determining the winner for their state.  The
contestants will be 5th graders.  They have outgrown
childhood and are young enough to not worry about
the size of their boobs or muscles.  After each state
selects their representative group the national
competition will begin.  Each week five groups from
five states will appear on TV to compete.  A winner
will be selected.  I haven’t worked out yet who the
judges will be.  Probably musical leaders from outside the states competiting. After ten weeks
there will be ten winners from the fifty states.
The judges for the last 10 states will be living
presidents and their wives. The last ten states will be divided into two groups.  A winner from each group will compete in the SUPER BOWL.  The winner
of the Super Bowl will be awarded a recording contract.  The winning song will be sold througout
the United State with the proceeds delegated to a
charitable organization doing research on childhood
diseases.  The winners of the Super Bowl will deceide which charitable organization will receive
the proceeds.  The winners of the Super Bowl will
appear on the White House lawn to sing their song to the President and his/her family.  Since the primary audience for these TV programs will be
children fast food companies will be restricted from advertising.  I would suggest the commericals come
from the USA Dept. of Educaion offering information
beneficial to the children watching the programs.

Am I the only one who’s noticed how many hours Beck is on FOX now? Even more than O’Reilly!

I keep hearing pundits say his show is the number one watched show on cable.

What can this mean?

Oh I have it now, the pundits never mention news. Beck is the new prime time, dumb ass comedian!

It’s not nice to get our jollies laughing at the loons in the nut house. But it’s ok with Beck, ‘cause he isn’t in the nut house, just on FOX.

People love to watch someone make a fool of themselves. I mean look how many folks can’t wait until the Hammer bumps and grinds again!

Pretty funny what we find funny.

If you haven’t figured this out already, outrage over president Obama being sung about by school kids or his speaking to school kids, pretty much confirms the so-called conservative radical-righters are ALL bonkers! After all, president Reagan did the same thing when mom and pop were kids, and president daddy Bush did the same thing when they were kids. Did it hurt them?

Oh duh ...

Maybe there is something to this brain-damage thing!

“Childhood and adolescence alike (...) cannot be fed solely by concerts, theories, and abstract teaching. The truth we aim to teach them should appeal foremost to their fantasy, to their hearts, and only then to their minds.”
Benito Mussolini

Wow! Little wonder the conservatives are upset. Who in the world knows better than they, appealing to the heart through fantasy works if one wants to control the child’s mind. I mean look at the success they’ve had with organised religion.

Now it is coming to me, the last time I heard Sarah Palin, I Capitulated into a bucket and gave up my lunch!

Since you directed your comment to me, AFriend I will respond…
Paltry minds are only capable of dealing with paltry matters.  The height of
derangement does not exist only in the frothing at the mouth right-wing conservative
Republican media programming of the likes of Limbaugh and Beck. 

It is the unsoundness of mind with which the amount of exertion spent by a couple of
commenters on this forum on the possibility that one school in 125,000 elementary
schools in the United States had planned to sing a song about the President of the
United States is excessively psychotic is to overstate the case.  As were the parents
who made the racist complaint.

It has been said that there are those on TD whose only purpose is to tear down the
dignity of the United States.  It smacks of anarchy and bitterness and subversity. 
Somewhat skeptical I wanted more evidence.  But as I watch this vacuus conversation
between christian96 and AFriend, I am nearly convinced. 

There is a dignity to the office of the President regardless of who is sitting in it.  While
I believe it to be massively destructive to a society the kind of nationalism that swept
Nazi Germany into the worst era mankind has ever experienced, I do believe it is a
healthy exercise to provide children with the means to value their country and to
instill a level of patriotism.  Their country has a President as its executive officer and
that executive officer has the responsibility for four years to manage the country
which entails a great number of duties. 

The fact that George Bush conducted what I believe was an illegal and heinous war
based on incorrect information is besides the fact that he held the office of President
at that time is and that fact is important.  He was elected by the electoral college with
the help of the Supreme Court, but which, nevertheless, was not contested by any
opposing candidate, nor legally brought to court as not having won that election by
any body of people.  While his legacy will be deemed the worst in the history of
American presidents, it does not deny the fact that he held that office for eight years. 
While he was President, it would have been perfectly proper for a song to have been
sung as a form of respect for him in that office, just as it is proper now for Barack
Obama.  It is ridiculous and crass to suggest that a song be sung in praise of killing
Iraqis as you implied.

The concentration on this forum on that one incident has been blown out of
proportion into a full-blown philosophical exercise over whether it is ever proper to
sing songs for a President?  It is akin to the kind of insanity perpetrated by the rabid
conservatives.  One has to wonder why?  If anyone were to tour the public elementary
schools in America today, it could easily be seen that pictures of the sitting president
are on the walls of every classroom.  What could possibly be the rationale of having
those pictures on the wall to be exposed to the malleable minds of the children?  Of
course there are those who would tear those pictures off the wall because of their
own psychosis.  But they do not decide what is good for American children.  The
rational is to teach respect for the office.  This is in disregard as to how it is perceived
that the holder of that office has conducted his presidency.  I realize that occasionally
a President is disgraced.  It has happened three times in my lifetime beginning with
Nixon, then Clinton, then GWBush.  Would singing a song for any of those three been
proper?  I would say yes.  The song would be as a gesture of respect for the office.  If
any one man who sits as president, motivates a song that mentions his name, then
there is reason to suspect there was something about him that was found to qualify
for the expression, whether or not he was in every aspect of his presidenthood.

I have to ask, Leefeller, if you have had any Tequila?  Sounds like
you wanted to.  Did you capitulate to anything?  Did you give in or give
up anything or to anyone?  I suggest you get yourself a bottle of Tequila
and drink it all.  Then try to capitulate, you won’t be able to walk a
straight line, it is a guarantee.  But you will be able to raise both hands
over your head and surrender. Good luck.

Occasionally when I capitulate, it usually seems to follow drinking to much Tequila, though it may only be a coincident?

Afriend:
People wanted Iraq overthrown because they couldn’t IMAGINE any man in the White House would SO blatantly lie in so many directions to invent a “threat” to the US just to go in and grab Iraqi oil.  They couldn’t believe that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice and…...Colin Powell would all lie.

Within a month, when it was OBVIOUS there were not WMDs, that Bush’s 150,000 “inspectors” didn’t find anything more than Hans Blix did, public AND Congressional opinion fell away from Bush like skin from a shedding snake.

I watched arch-“conservatives” who had attacked me viciously on other forums turn on a dime when they asked “OK, where ARE the WMDs?” and had loyal, dogmatic Bushites attack THEM as traitors and disloyal cowards.

Shenonymous,

In March of 2003 70% of Americans said they supported using the military to remove Saddam Hussein from power and remove WMD from Iraq. 70% is overwhelming support. Both the House and Senate voted firmly the same way.

Would this have been the best time to teach the nation’s children to praise the U.S. President and his agenda? Or, in hindsight, might this have been a bad idea?

—-

I understand what you think of me personally. Nobody cares.

christian96,

How this episode came to anyone’s attention is of little concern to me. Was it a parent who loved and supported the message? Perhaps it was a parent, guardian, teacher or Hillary Clinton’s Press Secretary who felt offended by it. Perhaps Dick Cheney found it on YouTube. We have no way of knowing. Maybe a researcher for MSNBC found it and ran it through, what is refered to as, the media gauntlet.

The point is not how you and I know of it. Nothing detracts from the far reaching ramifications that others, such as Shenonymous, have yet to contemplate.

—-

It seems we already agree that the practice of using the public school system to teach children to sing praises, and support the agenda, of a sitting president comes with some real and inherent problems. You pointed to your own concerns of race, economic status, geography and which president the children are being instructed to praise. I have pointed out a few of my own concerns.

I believe it’s wrong when white children in Texas are singing for war to change the world while praising the agenda of George W. Bush. On this we agree. I will hope that most Americans will conclude that wrong is always wrong.

AFriend——Don’t reinforce Shenonymous.  Just ignore
him.  He hasn’t gotten over the fact I exposed his
irrationality and questionable intellectual level
on another post.  Back to children singing to a
president.  I would want to know WHO recorded the
singing, WHY they recorded it, and WHO decided to
publicize it and WHY before I would condone it.

Night-Gaunt, he didn’t.  He did to me (he said alright), then I to you, I
merely showed a mutual capitulative relation.

AFriend, I’m glad you don’t like me.  I would worry if you did.  Seems
to be more than a “mere” conversation you are having a with
christian96 about singing to presidents.  Besides Leefeller voted that
the contest continue, so it is not only I who perceives the persistent
and not so frivolous banter.  There is nothing I can reasonably add to
or help your “conversation.”  As I already mentioned, it seemed a trite
and interminable engagement. 

As far as do I “often walk around in daily life telling others how
immature and insignificant their opinions are?”  Yeah, mostly on TD. 
Somebody has to do it.

When did StuartH, capitulate to me?

Shenonymous,

“The pissing contest”

—-
I see no pissing contest with christian96. So far I see a conversation between two civil people who didn’t feel a need to throw insults toward one another.

I’m curious as to why you felt the need to comment at all. Did you have something reasonable or helpful to add? Or do you often walk around in daily life telling others how immature and insignificant their opinions are? LOL

Your comments on our conversation were odd. But you made me smile.

Night-Gaunt – I think in 4000 years humans will be gray.  Naw, nature will
prevent it unless we all live under the same biobubble (that is a distinct
possibility). But all right, like StuartH, I capitulate.

Remember at least 108 skin colors alone not counting all of the other variations of morphology, biochemistry, blood types and so on. Like blue penises for some S. American Indians for example.

Merely adaptions nothing more. We can also count the density of hair to how well anyone does at anything. From car repair to basket weaving to star gazing. I love the variation. Gray people? No thanks, it ignores the basis of racism by removing the variation, not the illogical hatred of the differences. Can you imagine if we could create people with even more skin colors? Extra organs, extra abilities? We aren’t ready for it yet and may never.

Racism (other negativisms fit too) and all such are mostly learned reactions. Stop that train and it stops.

Shenonymous:

“We are all brothers and sisters not only with other humans, but with all animal
species, like slugs which come in different colors depending on how much
magnesium their cells contain.”

Alright.

1. On Being Black Kenobi, etc., and a little Saturday fun
At least, Leefeller, could we have one of KDelphi’s bidets on TD if the
pissing contest is going to continue.  It would be better than relying on
a pissing-in-the-wind umbrella. 

I am not squeamish about the possibility of being black.  Heck weeze
has blackfolk in our family.  And Italians and Greeks are about as black
as white folks can get.  So it isn’t squeamish.  Thus we are not all black
as the science says we “probably” are all brown.  Now there is a
difference between black and brown, isn’t there? For the science says
modern man probably has a common ancestor that was brown, not
negroid black.  I would say the same thing about Black Africans that
their melanin increased just as white folk’s, red folk’s, and yellow
folk’s, melanin changed quantity depending upon the environment.  I
can only imagine that Africans would cringe at the thought that they
were descended from a melanin-deficient whitish human.  I suppose
there are evolutionary DNA explanations as to why there are differences
in physical features such as broad foreheads, wide noses, short necks,
straight hair and curly hair, six toes, height (I know someone who is 3
feet tall and 300 lbs in weight, a virtual butter ball). While we probably
could argue about exodermic or epidermic skinned animals but it is
moot for the purposes of this discussion, the fact that melanin is found
in all other animals that have a skin does not mean that all animals are
black.  Science shows that women have more melanin in their skin than
do men.  Would that mean, according to StuartH’s theory, that women
are more black than men?  Yikes Aunt Jemima is not our auntie, she is
our Mom.  That would be all right with me cause she is so comfy, and
ahs likes pancakes.  But it wouldn’t be the truth even though I would
still buy her birthday presents.  Melanin is also found in plants by the
way, and so we would have to say that all plants are black as well and
that we are related to plants.  Perhaps it is truly a reticence to accept
being a descendent of apes that is more repugnant?  Now I claim to be
descended from an orangutan and hence the reason my hair is red.  My
grandfather had red hair too and was called BarbaRosa in the family. 
He was also an ex-priest who had extra long arms, so go figure.

2. OBB Kenobi, oh, sorry guess that was OB1 Wan Kenobi.
No one is hypothesizing “special” human beings, except maybe the
white racists, but anyone who has a thinking brain will dismiss them as
aberrant self-serving scum (and there’s more of us than there are of
them), and the rest of us who are not color sensitive, are more or less
color blind when it comes to skin color.  Least ways I am, how about
you?  Personally I’ve posted on TD several times that I vote for gray
people!  Complete miscegenation of the races!  But, unfortunately over
4000 generations nature would probably revert the gray people back to
the various races because of the interaction of the environmental sun. 

I know you like your theory StuartH and you of course may keep it.  But
the science does not quite convince me.  As I said I believe in
simultaneous multiple incidences of evolution such that from gametal
cellular states, a variety of organisms are produced from one DNA
cellular human original division and depending upon environment a
variety of individuals develop. This happens an infinite number of times
throughout all species, just look at the odd configurations found in sea
life, land insects…then evolution of the fittest proceeds through
propitious selection as to what survives the best are thus able to
reproduce.  Since there is such a thing as cross species breeding, and
such things as mules have appeared (though they are sexless that is
true) crossbred animals do exist which shows it is not only possible in
nature but probably was the reality in nature.  Actually there was a
news article on TV the other night about scientists succeeding in
grafting human DNA and other animals.  I direct you to The American
Journal of Bioethics, Nao R. Kobayashi, “A Scientist Crossing a
Boundary: A Step into the Bioethical Issues Surrounding Stem Cell
Research.”  Or try the article in Wired, “Careful How You Monkey With
DNA,”  May 2, 2005.  Then more recently in Science Daily, Sept. 5,
2008, Yale Researchers Find ‘Junk DNA’ May Have Triggered Key
Evolutionary Changes In Human Thumb And Foot,” where human
genetic materials is “introduced directly into the genome of a mouse.”
Now we will really have MightyMouse!  And April 30, 2009 The
Scientist.com “Grafts guide gene exchange.”  Check these things out. It
is fasciating.  Nor is there is any reason in the universe to hold that
only one linear production occurs in nature.  I rather like the natural
shotgun approach to species development.  We are all brothers and
sisters not only with other humans, but with all animal species, like
slugs which come in different colors depending on how much
magnesium their cells contain.

The National Geographic “Genographic Project”

https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/index.html

KDelphi:

When we were in high school, there was no DNA science.  Here is a URL citation
to go check out.  Apparently people here on Truthdig forums are generally not
used to absorbing new information that they don’t already have in their
prejudicial framework.  So I offer one URL, which is for the National Geograhic’s
“Genographic” project.

Over a period of about five years, very recently, leading edge researchers
studied human origins through the DNA techniques similar to those being used
now to document family genaeologies and crime scene evidence. 

From this research, it appears that we all come from a common African origin
when you go back to the origin point (they use 60,000 years because that is
when both male and female DNA coincide.)  It is interesting to note that even
among people professing to be aghast at racists, the idea that we all have
black ancestry seems to be hard to accept.

We are talking some 4,000 generations. 

Why the heck would melanin operate differently for white europeans than it
does for Africans?  It also is found in other animal species.  Since it is spread
throughout the human species and works the same way as a natural sun block,
there would seem to be no reason to think that there are special humans.

Thus, we are all black.  Why be squeamish about that?  A last vestige of Euro-
centrism that is hard to relinquish,  no doubt.  I think that shows how
ingrained this is in our thinking.  But this prejudice has to be more recent than
our species development, and more recent even than generational tanning. 

What that means is that, as recent as this is and as superficial as it is, racism
should cease to exist as we know it today quite soon, in the scheme of things -
within just a few more generations.  3?  4?  10?  inevitable.

After a colony has been established on Mars, will there be prejudice between
Earth home dwellers and Martian dwellers?  Or will space travel presume better
educated and smarter humans for whom prejudice is pre-historic?

The can call up old digital files of Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Michelle
Bachmann and the tea baggers and shake their heads at just how primitive
humans used to be.  It would be like having a 17th century lecture on hand
about Phlogiston and humors or the science behind identifying a witch to burn.

Maybe the reason these people are against evolution is because they feel Left
Behind.

It is most important for bigots to be exposed, and exposing Christian96 by Afriend is being done bit by bit, so very slowly, methodically, peeling the hair off an onion sorta say, just before the skin comes off,  though painful for many on TD watch, it is coming to a head, maybe in the next 3000 years. 

Exposing Christian96 as a bigot of grand proportions and a racist of high degree, I vote the pissing contest go on!

For some reason I have a vision of Christian96 standing in a great thunder and electrical storm in his shorts, this must be a coincidence?

Exactly where, elisalouisa, are you getting your information that ‘Merika
has no respect of other countries?  That is a fairytale and wishful
thinking of those who love to criticize this country for whatever
nefarious reason required and given that when Obama made speeches
to the UN and the G20 was given the utmost respect except for Iran,
Kadafi, and Chavez, three of least respected and jealous of America
countries in the world.  Cartoonists are not the wisest minds in the
world (or they wouldn’t be reduced to being cartoonists) and those who
live and breathe on the perceptions of cartoonists are cartoons of
human beings themselves.

The pissing contest, i.e., immature dispute over some insignificant
matter, we are witnessing between christian96 and AFriend is about as
trivial as one can get.  And yes I know we Truthdippers have to suffer
the slings and arrows of belligerence.  Seeing their respective tenacity
for argument there could be a higher quality discussion if directed
towards some slightly more important matters, such as the virulent
racism expectorated by the pestilential mouths of L&B.

christian96,

“I would be more concerned about the
parameters of the group of children involved. I would be more concerned if the group of children involved interracial children from low income parents from Riverside, California singing support for President Bush.

—-

So teaching children to sing the praises of the sitting president and his agenda may concern you at times dependent on the president’s race and the racial and socioeconomic makeup of the group of children involved.

By your own admission you’re suspect of the motivations of the one who recorded this event. The type of event -children singing- which takes place daily all across the United States. Yet, dependent on the president’s race, and the racial and socioeconomic breakdown of the children involved, recording them may hold some ugly or nefarious context.

So your answer is that you would condone this for some but not necessarily for others. Might it be best to leave this out of the public school systems altogether?

Mr. Fish’s cartoon “Feeding the Empire” will tell you why America no longer has
the respect of other countries. This picture is worth more than a thousand words.

Wow! What an amazing revelation.  I NEVER would have guessed that Rush and Beck were racists….after all, they SAY they aren’t racist….just like Cong. Joe Wilson says he’s not racist (though he belongs to the Sons of the Konfederacy).

I’m sure I’m mistaken about the KKK and the Aryan Brotherhood—they can’t be racist either.

.
..
..
..
.

.
It’s not news that the Republican Party is now dominated by racists—the old Southern rednecks are all rethugs now.

AFriend——The issue is more than “Children are
Children.”  I would be more concerned about the
parameters of the group of children involved. If
they were all white children of very wealthy parents
from the Dallas, Texas area singing support for
President Bush I would be more concerned than if
the group of children involved interracial children
from low income parents from Riverside, California
singing support for President Bush.  However, I would
still be concerned about WHO filmed the singing
children?  WHO decided to publicize the singing
children and WHY?  WHAT was their objectives?  WHY
was a certain TIME chosen to publicize the singing
children?  At one time the offices of President,
Congressperson, Senator carried respect and dignity
in America until people holding those offices were
exposed as corrupt.  Then, people failed to discriminate between the offices and the people holding the offices.  That is one reason America has
lost respect around the world with people in some
countries referring to America as the Great Satan.

I thought that they had fouhd a way to trace mitochondrial DNA to six tribes, who were all originating in Africa.

But, like I said, I didnt have much Science in college and I am not certain that they know.

I certainly have not heard of the tribe that is as old as African-originating tribes that began in Europe.

christian96—Asians would be former Aficans, no? Well, I guess that depends on whether you buy the ‘out of Afica” theory. I do.

christian96,

We’re gonna spread happiness
We’re gonna spread freedom
Bush’s gonna change it
Bush’s gonna lead ‘em”.

George Walker Bush
“We’re gonna change it
And rearrange it
We’re gonna change the world”.

The song is not mine, christian. Those are the lyrics to one of the songs the children were taught in school. I simply added the Bush reference and context in lieu of Obama.

You didn’t ask me about the race of the children and I offered no opinion. Other than paying a great deal of attention to skin color I fail to see your making a point of these children being multiracial. Children are children.

—-

I asked a simple question. Would you be comfortable today with school children being taught to sing praise and support to George W. Bush and his agenda?

If your answer is yes then we will simply disagree. If your answer is no then it’s wrong. Wrong is always wrong.

I suppose the third option would be that it’s O.K. as long as you like the sitting president. Clearly the problem with this is that in most cases half the nation voted for someone else. This necessarily means that roughly half the parents would not appreciate it.

I will maintain that it’s not a good practice in public schools

You have a poetic point there StuartH, and you certainly ought to
enjoy what you like.  Being a poet myself I can say I appreciate the
irony that might give the KKK’s white hoods that somewhat dingy
over-laundered look if they were to epiphanize that their ancient DNA
was negroid.  But since they are Biblicalists it wouldn’t matter what
science produced.  Even so, and even though I would howl at white
supremacists, I don’t think perpetrating something that might be a
trendy thing to say when in fact the truth would be to perpetrate
another hoax which would be a disservice to human beings. 

Taking the breath away harbors the possibility of doing the opposite of
what is desired.  Instead of being duly shocked out of bigoted
complacency, a riot might ensue.  I would never use The Garden folk as
a reference since I am not a Biblist.  I am a Darwinist though and would
still go with DNA adventures of mythical proportion.  I like the story of
the evolving melanin gene that proliferated into the more than a
hundred races (skin color) just because it could, it could that is with the
help of the sun which is ubiquitous.  While the brown skin is probably
the ancestral skin color among modern humans, we have to travel back
farther to before the homininal form of Australopithecines to find
originating genes responsible for human epidermis then see how it
attached to DNA making possible the various skin tones.  Since we
have no specimen of such prehistoric humankind, all we have is
speculation.  It is too easy to appropriate a myth to support a
conjecture, isn’t that how religions began?  I wouldn’t like humanity to
travel down another wrong pigeonhole.  Frankly I don’t believe in the
single linear ancestor theory but take the view that many incidences of
human gametical material evolved simultaneously.

StuartH—-I had my DNA traced by a company in Utah
for $300 bucks a few months ago.  My paternal
ancestry didnot go back to Africa but did go back
thousand of years ago to Asia, then migrated through
India, Eastern Europe, Scotland, etc.  I was suprised
because like you I had read or seen a program where
we all eventually go back to Africa.  My genetic
subtype matched that of Anderson Cooper.  I thought
about trying to contact him but celebreties are so
hard to communicate with.  I just let it slide.

As I thumb through some of these post, one thing strikingly sticks out like a sore thumb…and yes this is directed towards you extremely naive whites. You comment as if the U.S.A. does not have a sored, tarnished, blood stained past. And might I add, at the behest of those native to these shores and those who arrived as CARGO. Lets see, slavery’s inception, mid fifteen hundreds. Civil rights legislation signed into law, 1963. Forty plus years of actual laws on the books versus centuries of blatant, callous and sometimes deadly injustice and all is well. Thing that make you go hmmm.

Shenonymous:

I like the poetic minimalism of saying we are all black.  It tends to bring people
up short and I think people really need to be.  More accurately, I suppose a
closer approximation between science and poetry would be to say that Adam
and Eve are black and we are all their children. 

That ought to set some people’s teeth on edge.  It is interesting that people
want to correct the assertion even though accepting the science that indicates
a common ancestral origin in Africa.  The DNA evidence seems compelling,
since it would seem to be easier to identify with than fossil bone. 

Ultimately, we belong to one common human race.  Present day racism will
have no relevance for many more generations and it won’t be 4,000
generations before people looking back on this time will wonder, “WTF?”

AFriend——Your song about Pres. Bush has nothing
whatsoever to do with a multiracial group of children
singing a song to Pres. Obama.  Maybe I should have
made my question more specific:  Whay is wrong with
a multiracial group of children singing a song to
President Obama?

Yeah, yeah, yeah Obama is considered Black. If he had only 1/16 African blood he would
be considered Black.  Way back when, when I said he was half white I was soundly
corrected.  Well it is rather moot after all.  He is the President and those who are bigoted
just have to lick their festering wounds.  He is not ignorant about much.  Beck and
Limbaugh are Immoralists with no scruples nor intelligence who only belch their crappy
litany to their glee club.  I only heard it second or third hand via the “unprincipled”
television news as I wouldn’t taint my sensitive ears with their defecations.  Purple
Girl I sympathize with you and your rant as they, the acidmouthed L&B, are about as
insulting a pair of shrunken testicles as ever hit the airwaves. 

Well StuartH yes it is true, the latest theory is that all humans alive descended from
CroMagnon from Africa but that is not the same as saying we are all black. 
NightGaunt is right about the number of races if one wants to be precise, and you
are in telling how skin color comes about.  Fact is people’s race was evolutionary to
preserve the species in different environments.  We could all say everyone is albino as
much as we are all black.  We are originally genetically colorless since the environment
was so easily able to evolve the different skin colors so the environment decided what
color we would be.  So you are right again when you say, skin color differences are
“pretty much meaningless.”  That NG project also said humans descended from apes (I
saw that show too), and that may or may not be true, as I was sure we descended from
tree shrews.  And based on the shrewishness of Limbaugh and Beck, I wouldn’t argue
with the anthropologist who said that. 

ThatDeborahGirl don’t worry, the Truthdippers will take care of straightening the
author Conason out on his lightweight assessment of L&B, the shrunken testicle twins (I
just love that new name I’ve invented, me, the hater of name-callers, jeeze what has this
world come to? FT help!)

No Afriend, all the presidents until recently have not been “light” skinned. They
have been “white” skinned, lily-white men.  But you are right about the history of men
lambasting and excoriating other politicians.  It is a function of their male member. 

Be careful voice of truth that you do not commit the sin of untruth yourself. 
Perhaps this site is full of the mental midgets you listed, but there are those who are
tolerant, love-filled, knowledgeable, mature, and non-hypocritical posters around as well. 
One skeleton does not have much weight, literally and figuratively.  Arguments wage
forever among anthropologists.  Do more homework.

StuartH—Very good posts and you are absolutely correct, but, given my dumbass BA and MS, with little Science I cannot explain why. But I do “get it” and find it fascinating. I said years ago, not from scientific education, but , because it made common sense:

Just how close you live to the sun, peeps! LOL! (your skin need to protect you from sun or let in more vitamin D!) Thats why my Nordic ass burns on the beach. (but not on a beach in Norway—makes sense)

Night Guant—i agree that Wright made some important observations, and I did not like to way Obama threw him under the bus, in terms of speculating on Obama’s future loyalty to those who had “helped him along”. But, he did get a coupla things wrong. If you laid two (human) brains on the table and tried to tell,“white” from “black” you could not, even as a scientist. I also do not believe that people of different “colors” are born with different “beats” in their head. (lol)But he was being faninciful and I understand that. Even in a PT scan,(shows chemical uptake, as you probably know) the results (in terms of race) are indistinguishable. (Ive seen them, with psychiatrists, studying PT and mRI scans of schizophrenics and others—you just dont see ‘race”—you also dont “see” schizophrenia, except in terms of enlarged ventricles, but its not definitive) Its an artificial concept—race, and, maybe, “mental illness”—by that I mean, that, if its a ‘brain defect”, then a neurologist should handle it. If its not , drugs will not help…(ie personality disorders, etc)

But, it is all that some people think that they have left, their “racial identity” sadly…with all the “globalization”, one positive point may be the destruction of racial categories as we think we know them today.

The reason I despair the rise of the Christian Right and the new bigotry—that “peculiar American institution” arising from plantation slavery and a long history of global exploitation of human beings; the KKK, the Terror in the Deep South from the 20s through the sixties, segregation, the religious identification with kooky right-wing politics and politicians; a period of so-called “reconciliation” that the current economic crisis has stripped away like a thin veneer to reveal the irrationality, hatred and racism that has always been there—is its apparent strength in numbers.

There is a reason for Limbaugh’s popularity, for Glenn Beck and Hannity, and The O’Reilly Factor. Many people in our country listen to and take the narrative, framed by propagandist right-wing ideologues, as the Absolute Truth because the hateful storyline reflects their own sense of loss, of losing the American Dream and their piece of the pie, seeing their supremacy by entitlement for being white slip away with a black president in office.

The legions of Tea-Baggers and DittoHeads, the frustrated audience of Limbaugh and Beck, the worst among us are full of passionate intensity, and indeed, sometimes it feels as though the best lack all conviction. This sense of despair comes from suffering through the frequency and volume of the message from the Christian Right. Everyone seems to be listening and parroting the talking points of a deeply disturbing right-wing agenda to discredit the president, to “win” the country back to their odd sense of what it means to be a patriotic American.

They long for a demagogue who will offer simple solutions to complex problems; who will echo their frustration with the economy; who will promise to lead the country by moral compass by banning abortion and outlawing gay marriage; who will protect their right to own automatic weapons; and who will promise to restore America’s prestige around the world through military force.

This is what awaits those, the best among us, who lack all conviction: a totalitarian regime of the Christian Right.

voice of truth:

First of all, a really arrogant pseudonym.  Secondly, having grown up in a
central Texas town with real racism, it is pretty obvious what it is.

And, we really are all black.  We all have the same melanin which acts the same
way to regulate the same sun, depending on where on earth our more
immediate ancestors have been residing.  There are no other characteristics
deeper than regional history for the past few thousand years have created that
define humans.  There are no subspecies.

It is pretty obvious who Limbaugh and Beck are trying to appeal to (as the voice
of truth.)

It would take to long, and be a useless excercise anyway, to refute all the falsehoods in the article and the 64 so-far comments.

What I will say is this.  I seriously doubt that there is anyone on this thread (outside of conservatives) who have even listened to either of these guys.  And I mean every day for a week.

Wouldn’t it be great if we could get the government to step in and shut them down?  Yeah, we’re so tolerant!!  Yeah!

But to a couple of points raised - -

StuartH - We are not all black.  In fact, if you follow current events, you would know that scientists recently uncovered a skeleton in Eastern Europe that is as old as anything found in Africa, and it has thrown the entire theory of African migration on its ear.  I guess that makes me a racist to even suggest it.

Night-Gaunt - Barack (you said Puff, you’re wrong) the Magic Negro song was a parody of the Los Angelos Times, which actually was the source of the coined phrase Barack the Magic Negro.  Limbaugh was, in fact, ridiculing the phrase and called it racist.

Roger Lemonde - you wonder why calling people racist elicits such strong responses (implying that they are racist)?  Really, you don’t mind if someone called you a peodophile?  A convicted murderer?  An incestuous pervert?  It just proves to me what I have been saying on this site for 2 weeks now.  You people throw around racist and nazi/fascist so much that the meaning of the word has become irrelevant to you.  Me?  I get pissed if someone calls me a heinous word simply because they don’t agree with my beliefs.

This site is full of the most intolerant, hate-filled, ignorant, infantile and, more than anything, hypocrital posters around.

Night-Guant:

That is a more interesting subject for speculation than the boring and
repetitive yes-no, yes-no this thread has become. 

I recently saw again the PBS documentary on the scientists who discovered the
super volcano of 75,000 years ago.  Fascinating.  There is all kinds of possible
threads that people have or claim to have found regarding civilizations that
existed before conventional wisdom says that they did.  Certainly the prospect
is not far fetched if you want to speculate.  Apparently, for instance, there was
a massive, catastrophic population die-off on the North American continent
before most explorers reached the interior.  What if those people had lived
instead?  No telling what was lost with the millions who perished.

What if the Aztecs had a prophecy that said, “when you see big birdlike vessels
with great wings coming from the East - leave no survivors.”

Given the way human overpopulation and over-consumption seems to be
headed, it would not be tremendoulsy surprising to discover that mankind had
just about wiped itself out before. 

In the Southwest, Indian creation stories, such as the Navajo and the Hopi refer
to, describe previous worlds that came to an end because humans did
something stupidly destructive.  Their prophecy seems centered around the
idea that we will do it again. 

It may be that, as conditions on the planet intensify in urgency, the bickering
will intensify as well and intelligent problem solving will get drowned out. That,
unfortunately is a prospect and one need look no further for indicators of such
a possibility than this forum right here.

christian96,

“Please explain what is wrong with singing
a song to the President.”

—-

“Yes We Like George Bush.
Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iraq.
We’re gonna spread happiness
We’re gonna spread freedom
Bush’s gonna change it
Bush’s gonna lead ‘em”.

“We’re gonna change it
And rearrange it
We’re gonna change the world”.

Does this work for you, Christian? Should that have been part of our children’s education? Or is this simply creepy and wrong?

Wrong is always wrong.

StuartH I am familiar with it and the tracing not only the X chromosome but also the blood factor for the Y chromosome back to our Mother Continent. If you really want to go back to the “old country” then that would be it. Also linguistically too we see that there have been at least two recorded migrations our of Africa. The first around 100,000 years ago, then a tremendous die back caused by the eruption of Mt.Toba (super volcano about 70,000 years) in Indonesia** then another migration around 50,000 years ago with minor ones after that. It explains why our genetic drift is so small, we are much closer together biologically and familially than ever. Once we get over our xenophobia we can act like a species.

**I think there could have been a highly advanced human civilization before the Toba eruption. One more advanced than our own. What the Hindu myths speak about a multi-continent civil war that ended around the time of the eruption but the civilization was too weakened to survive the catastrophe and a world wide war too. There may have been others who also didn’t make it. Just some speculation for fiction I use.

gaylordcat,

“What other president has been attacked as viciously as Obama?”

—-

Every U.S. president since Adams has been attacked just as, and in many instances more, viciously than the current president. Until recently all had been light skinned.

Most will recall how vicious Limbaugh was toward Clinton. Most will recall the viciousness directed toward Carter and Reagan. All will recall the viciousness directed toward Bush 43 on these very pages and across the nation.

Would there be any explanation, other than race, if President Elect Obama had been unable to walk to the Capital on inauguration day due to the outraged crowd? No. Most would think it was due to the color of his skin, however, Bush 43 is white.

President Clinton saw the largest protest in New York City history in the late 90’s. President Clinton once had to leave a G8 summit due to the violent protests against him specifically. Clinton was labeled a dangerous criminal and rapist during the election and into his presidency. Nothing said against President Obama nears that type of viciousness. Nothing coming even close.

Jefferson once called Adams a soulless, clueless hermaphrodite. How many more examples would you like? I have multiples of dozens.

There is not a single example of the current president being treated any worse than his predecessors. If there are any I would be open to learn of it. So far nobody has given a single, demonstrable, example of it. Yet the charge continues.

I like President Obama personally and support him in many ways. And I am proud of how 99% of Americans have received him. Including his critics.

The charge of racism is both foolish and dangerous. Anyone truly interested can spend 90 minutes on the internet and see just how vicious politics has always been. Today is no exception.

I maintain that those who see racism in this particular situation are putting a great deal of importance on the color of the President’s skin.

I actually agree with AFRIEND that teaching childrren to a sin a song about a sitting president is wrong, assuming it happened.  It just shows you that even a slimy racist can state truths and values that are worthy of consideration.  But they shouldn’t be allowed enormous platforms to trumpet their sleaze.

Night Gaunt:

Perhaps you have run across the work by the National Geographic project to
research the origins of human DNA, in association with the leading scientists in
this area. 

In sum:  We are all black. 

All Cro Magnon DNA is traceable to African roots, with common original
ancestors going back to 60,000 years for the male line and some 170,000 for
the female line.  The discrepancy has to do with the differences in the way male
and female mitochondria are passed down.  There is a book describing this.

Melanin, the agent in skin coloration, regulates the amount of sunlight
entering the skin and is the result of generations lived at certain latitudes. 

The future, given all the mobility we now have, is for skin color differences to
be pretty much meaningless.

For some people to be made highly anxious by the prospect of living in a more
multicultural society, is pretty stupid.

I actually found myself agreeing with what I had heard with Reverend Jeremiah Wright in his sermons I saw. He was hardly a racist or “hater” at all. He was just pointing out the sordid history of white/black relations in this country, the ones left out of history text books. He was a marine if I recall, and a patriot. I am white, very Nordic* in appearance just so you know. Obama dumping him was an important sign of where his mind really is.

Beck called Obama a “racist” in his disjoint fashion without giving one iota of proof. I am still waiting. Maybe we could listen to Limbaugh’s “Puff the Magic Negro” song dedicated to our first black president till he does tell us. {We are all multi-racial(sic) but it is most prominent in him.}

By-the-way there are at least 108 skin color variations cataloged and it doesn’t take much to cause it. Most racial identifications are decades out of date and are patently useless. We exist because a concentration of traits then going out and mixing them with others to produce more sets of traits. Without it we would have been as restricted as the Neaderthals who were too well adapted to the colder climes and couldn’t adjust.

*Pale to rose skin, blue eyes and white hair. Hair that color for almost 30 or so years. I am 52 right now chronological. Biological I feel much older do to some common ailments. [Recessive gene expression, none of my other brothers have it.]

“Obama attended a racist church for 20 years”? Sound bite logic is so simple and annoying.  Why did I find nothing Racist about Obama’s church, except it seemed to directly confront people with blunt truths, and I do not prefer to believe in Churches? If anything they limit and confine reason inside a box. Obama’s church was some what enlightening for a Church. I found it most disappointing when he dropped out.

Afriend,

You ask how Obama has been treated differently than other presidents. Puleeze! What other president has been attacked as viciously as Obama by Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, etc.? What other president has had a minister of the Christian Gospel pray that he dies of brain cancer? When has any other president’s wife and children been called on to die?

Conason is quoting Beck and Limbaugh. Look it up. There are myriad people in this country who cannot stand for a n***** to be in the White House. They cannot say that, so they couch it in other terms that are fooling no one.

Please, Afriend and other liberal haters, like Rob who appears to have no brain but a wire between his ears that operates his motors, do some research. Read. Listen to other news as well as Fox. Know that 99% of what you read on the Internet is excreta. Think, for God’s sake. Stop being puppets for the right because you are too lazy and, maybe, too stupid to make educated conclusions. The ultra right is controlling your lives.

Am I a conservative hater? Not exactly, but I sincerely believe that the stupidest people inhabit that group.

Purple Girl:

Intelligent arguments about genetics, which leads to observations about hybrid
vigor are, unfortunately, too far removed from the playing field.

There is a long history of racism that creates perceptions and governs all the
discussions.  To racists, anyone who looks black is black and is treated as a
black person is treated.  Period. Full stop. 

The departure from this legacy, over the past generation or two, is still very
much on the intellectual level for many people and the visceral history has not
entirely been superceded. 

When people in the media are unprincipled enough to call out the low instincts
of the audience, that part of the human legacy that can be a mob, there is a
response and profit can be made from it.  It is despicable, but it works.

Unfortunately, large swaths of the country, especially in the rural and small
town West are vulnerable to being influenced because this red state media can
drown out intelligent dialogue.  In a lot of places there is no other media.

Obama is ‘racist’ against half his biological Gene Pool???
Obama is Not the first ‘Black president” - he is the First Bi Racial President.
Interesting these Pundits always seem to forget that fact when leveling accusations. WHY???
Do they think he is so ‘indoctrinated’ into the Black Culture he is ignorant about the White culture? He was raised by his white Mother, not his Black Father. After she died, his white Grandparents raised him. Do they think the White culture is so ‘weak’ that it is unable to compete with the ‘stonger’ black influences?
What seems far more apparent is that people like Beck and Rush have little regard or confidence in not only the White culture, but also the White Race.
Is it the fact that the ‘Black Gene’ was ‘dominate’ in this Bi Racial person, that Truely pisses them off and may even terrify them??
Let’s not take them at their word and assume they do believe in the forces of Evolution. Where the adage ‘survival of the fittest’ is so often misconstrued to mean ‘strength’ instead of it’s intended ‘adaptability’.In that misguided (uneducated) way, Obama’s color is a visual reminder of ‘weakness’ of the White ‘species’.
In the History of the World the White Race has never been the the predominate Demographic.Never Reached #1 in numbers. From a purely Evolutionary stance, that makes those that have, the ‘dominate’ race.So is it any surprise that White ‘supremeists’ try to redefine the ‘metrics’ of determination- ei ‘Creationism’ instead? Only adding ‘insult to injury’ is the fact Females out number males and ‘Christianity’ has never earned top ranking in World Stats. The Concept of Evolution (biological or sociological) pisses them off, because it reveals Reality.
But we should not assume they don’t ascribe to it when their words and actions prove otherwise. You can hear it in their Rhetoric,their stance on political issues (immigration, affirmative action), and the shrill of their voices- pure hysteria.
It is true they are Racist, but they are so really against their ‘own’. They assume that when faced with an open level playing field they will fail- will go ‘extinct’. But this is due to their own ‘metrics’ which claim even ‘one drop’ of another Races ‘Genes’ makes you a member of that other Race. Historically one grandparent of ‘color’ was the determining factor of Race, esp if your skin color ‘revealed’ that genetic heritage.
Much like the ridiculous, now debunked, notion that Neanderthal went extinct, instead of ‘mixed’ with Homo sapiens. These Whites think that ‘mixing’ means Extinction. It doesn’t - it is the mechanism by which ‘adaptation’ occurs- the combined sums of the ‘best traits’ into a stronger (more Adaptable) Species. 
Obama is not a ‘Black President’ - he is a bi racial president, and both the White and Black Communities should take pride, and responsiblity, in that.He may be the product of our Best ‘Attributes’ or our worst, or a combination.Thus the color of his skin is irrelevant. Unless of course you actually ascribe to the belief that phenotype is the expression of the ‘stongest’ gene (race)- and you are on the losing end of that ideology.
The more we learn about Genetics the more we know that their ‘expression’ is a crap shoot. One child has Brown hair while their sibling has blonde.One is introverted the other extroverted. Far more a kin, and difficult to predict,to laying a bet on lottery numbers than which team wins a football game.
Racists (of all colors) say more about their own lack of confidence in their own race, then they do about those they hope (try) to discredit or malign of other Races.

AFriend—-Please explain what is wrong with singing
a song to the President.  Thank you.

christian96,

Teaching students to sing an ode to a sitting president is simply wrong. My head would have exploded had this been George Bush. I suspect you would feel the same.

Wrong is always wrong.

Mr. Conason,

In several posts, covering several stories on TruthDig concerning the race issue, I have asked for examples of how the current president has been treated, overall, differently from past U.S. Presidents. Fortunately for everyone not a single example has been given. Most will take great pride in that. Others will simply not see.

It seem to me you see things that are not there and keep yourself from seeing things that are. You see color, Mr. Conason. You define the president and his critics by it. It’s defined as bigotry. It’s defined as racism.

I hope you find a clearer way of seeing the world.

I just watched Glenn Beck rant and rave because a
group of American school children were singing a song
about President Obama.  I admit I stopped watching
Glenn Beck months ago because it became obvious to
me that this man is either ignorant and/or deceptive.
It is late at night, I was scrolling through the
channels hoping to find something intellectually
stimulating to watch.  There was Glenn Beck. Not
many choices late at night.  I decided to watch him.
He was ranting and raving like a mentally deranged
person over the fact that a teacher had let her class
sing a song about President Obama.  As many times
previously, I didn’t get his point.  I can only
conclude Glenn Beck talks and behaves irrationally
because it is technique for getting his face in front
of a camera.  Howard Stern had to act ignorant and
obnoxious to get his face in front of a camera.  They
appeal to an audience that probably watches fake
wrestling programs.  They surely aren’t appealing to
intellectuals sincerely interested in issues confronting our nation.  It is sad our country has
evolved(is that the correct word biologists?) to
the situation that presently exists in our media
talk shows, appealing to ignorant emotion rather than
intellectual inquiry.

In my early 30’s I returned to school to get my teaching credentials…This was in Bellingham at Western Washington Univ. which is just over a small hill from Sehome HS. In 1985, a I sat, as an observer, in a high school American history class.

The teacher, who really was a football coach, was telling his class that slavery was a really good deal for the negroes…after all, free food, a place to stay, and they didn’t have to worry about anything as they were taken care of.

After the class, I asked him where he learned this…from his church, he said…the mormon church. 
Beck had lots of help in his idiocy.

Rob: “I was a medi-cal investigator in san diego county for several years.”

Haha, yeah right. Keep lying to everyone, it is what you Republicans are good for.

Media Provocateurs, indeed.  They’ve fanned the flames to the point that retailers have run out of ammunition ... bullets ... to sell to the paranoid, gut-toting public.

“Stirring up hate amongst the unbalanced”?  That’s pretty accurate.  Hannity, Beck and Limbaugh are the hate-mongers. 

They are crying “Fire!” in a crowded theater.  They are abusing their First Amendment rights for their own selfish agendas.  Worst of all they are setting an example that says their behavior is a sure-fire, get-rich-quick, pathway to fame and fortune. 

They’ve spawned another generation of unpatriotic, duplicitous hate-mongers. 

They have brought us down as a Nation and have provided us with nothing of value in exchange for their personal gain.

A plague on all of them for taking advantage of our American sense of fairness and justice for all.

I cant read all of these posts, so I wont even try.

But, just because many of these people are racists does not mean that Obama is right.
I saw racism at these rallies. I saw alot of ignorance. But, I saw no policies coming out of the majority Dems to dispute them.
Obama gives “liberals” nothing to fight them with. The policies that he is continuing are certainly not “liberal”, and, as angry as some of the teabaggers make me, I find any response lacking—what am I supposed to do, stand up for a “healtn insurance reform” that subsidizes the insurance industry????

Democrats have set themselves up for this.

The reason that so manyy “hang on their every word”, is, in part, at least, becaues the media loves this kind of hyperbole. Another reason is that they see nothing worthy replacing it.

Beck and Limbaugh, et al, do this for ratings, and, apprently, it works. Try backing the Fairness Doctrine, next time, Dems.

Interesting how many people twitch here when racism
gets called out. Maybe they resemble that remark.
No wonder Tweedle Dumb and Tweedle Dumber have a
following.

DivaJean,
>My father is, sad to say, a huge fan of these types of radio shows and drinks the Kool-Aid. I think it mainly has to do with the underlying belief that “anyone” can become rich in AMerica, so why would we tax the richest? My dad has even said out loud that when he “makes it” some day (he is in his late 60’s BTW), he doesn’t want all his money going to the government. Meanwhile, social programs like Medicare and Social Security- which he “doesn’t believe in” will be used to their fullest.

He even believes health care SHOULD be doled out to only those who can afford it (which, if he’s using Medicare, wouldn’t be him!).

These types of weird paradoxes are all believable in Beck and Limbaugh-land. <<

Thanks for sharing you story. I am happy you evolved past your father.  You know I can relate to you story.  It also says something about the human condition and our own weaknesses I think.  So you and I have had valuable lesson on how to develop as we age. Cheer to you!

Racists are everywhere, especially at the local KKK meetings. Hate differences seems to be the theme or is it just hate everything?

PatrickHenry, try looking at the one sitting behind your steering wheel.

PatrickHenry, September 24 at 7:32 pm #

Unfortunately one doesn’t have to look very hard.

Since I never listen to bobbleheads Rush and Glenn, I can’t comment.  I knew they were idiots along time ago along with the likes of Hannity and O’Rielly.  I vote with my wallet and my remote.

But today while driving from work I listened to WTOP news radio and the daily JTA spokesperson came on urging people to come out and rally against Iran and demonize Ahmadinajad all over the area.  These are the same spokespeople who somehow make everything the Palestinians fault and fail to mention any Israeli guilt of anything.  24/7 in Washington DC on the most popular news radio.  No counter commentary is ever offered or even allowed.

Racists are everywhere, one only has to look for them.

When you call Obama a socialist, it is much more accurate to say, corporate
socialist. Otherwise people think you are comparing his to a communist, leftist,
or some sort of peace-loving hippie.

Far from it.  What he practices is much more akin to fascism, the unity of
corporate, government and military, both home and especially, on the
international stage. Today we learn the dollar is on its way out, from the
mainstream media, and in Obama’s words, a “new world order is coming”, no
doubt with strong corporate supervision and manipulation. It is much different
from what most people think of when you just say “socialist”“.

That is why he has no intention of reforming crooked corporations, and has no
problem handing over tax dollars to them, and solidifying their mandates
toward the American people, like forcing them to buy insurance, and like what
is going on in Pittsburg right now, shutting down any form of legal protest with
the military, which is also against the law.

This is no peace-loving hippie.

Any American: “I don’t like the healthcare plan.”

Truthdigger (liberal):  “Racist”

Any American: “I disagree with the cap and trade.”

TD (liberal):  “Racist”

Any American: “I disagree with Barry”

TD (liberal): “Racist”

Me: “I disagree with what the writer is saying in   this column.”

You: “Racist”

Us liberals according to rob in his frenzy forgot   some most important talking points, Obama is not only not an American citizen nor a Christian, but a socialist Muslim from Tim-buck-two, seems rob needs to learn the defined meaning of racism.  Seems, even some racists have a hard time understanding, must be uncomfortable at the local KKK meetings?

Denigrating the Democratic administration might represent some of the
American posters here but these racist pulpheads certainly don’t
represent me. (I don’t count Canadians who seem to populate these
forums more than American citizens.) American government is what it
is and it is more complex than anyone on this forum can demonstrate
they understand, so I find the criticisms leveled at it adolescent at best. 
Leftists have their nutmeathead talk radio show, too, Air America’s
Lionel and The Ed Schultz Show.  But Americans need to be told and
need to understand that media political freaks left-wing and right-wing
are a inventions of the media, for instance: The Ed Schultz Show’s
shares owned by Democracy Radio were purchased by Product First in
June 2005, a company started by Randy Michaels and Stu Krane, who
had previously been involved with launching Rush Limbaugh’s radio
show.  Producers of these shows have absolutely no feelings about
Leftists or Rightists, they are all seen as media wave material.  All are
calculated to titillate the most rabid of minds on the left or right and
both at the same time by the same producer people.  The Schultz show
was dropped by KFGO in February, but KQWB aired it.  Besides the
Schultz show, there is the White Rose Society, and Indie Radio
programs at Radiopower.org (now defunct, haha!), then there is another
Indie PIRN (Progressive Internet Radio Network), I think it’s still going
but I don’t listen to left or right shows, the are too dreadful for my
taste, but if interested try
http://www.progressiveinternetradio.com/faq.htm

Their stars are not too bright, either in terms of vocal aspect nor
content.  Sort of just as vapidly empty as the Rightists.

rob, do you suck rotten eggs as a steady diet or only at 4:00 in the
afternoon? and if you are Rob, then f’yourself since that is about all the
thinking talent you are showing you might have.  But then I would bet
you aren’t even able to do that effectively.  Certainly you don’t provide
any intelligence.  But, but, but….I would swear you are a white bastard?

Hey, “Rob”:
    You don’t have to be a neo-con to be a racist, but it helps.  I’ll bet a nickel you yourself have dipped into the national kitty from time to time - maybe called the government-run police to save your tail ..... maybe called the government-run firemen to get your cat down from a tree .... maybe went to a public school or sent your kid there .... maybe used the PUBLIC library .... or drove on a government-built street.  Face it, Rob, you’re a closet socialist.  You rely on the US government, state government, city government for LOTS of stuff.  I’ll bet you even keep your money in an FDIC insured bank ... you know, the one that has federal guarantees on your savings and checks.  The mere fact that you are using the internet tells us all that you don’t mind that it evolved from ARPA - another government program.  I love that line about “YOUR” money .... do you barter or just use gold pieces ?  What does your employer pay you with?  You surely would never stoop to using that Federal paper money they print in Washington, right?
    GOTCHA, Tovarich !!

But it is like watching the movie Network. It is what it is. It has become that.

This is a snapshot of our country. This is the noise that we are making to
ourselves and the world. To one degree or another they represent us.

What is the noise on the other side? An administration that pays only lip service
to reforms and continues the worst policies (in deed, not word) of the Bush
administration? A government that nobody trusts from the top down? Slick
corporate lobbyists and politicians, stealing openly from the American people,
asking for “civil” debate? Countries that exempt themselves from nuclear
proliferation while falsely accusing other countries in order to invade them?
Health insurance companies, who cannot be controlled, killing sick people?
Secret renditions and incarcerations without reason? CIA assassination squads
around the world? (I could certainly go on…)

Its all totally out of control. Its all just as sick as Beck and Limbaugh. Who are
the sane? The heroes? The honest voice on this particular stage?

If there was a good or “right” side to all this, no one would even pay attention.
But alas, this dark comedy is the only show in town.

Satire, by definition, is not understood by anyone who is a party to it. That is
the function of satire and why it is so effective. But here there is no need to
create it here, it created itself. Just record it, watch it, like a movie. The funny
stuff comes in when all the guilty accuse each other. And funny in satire is not
always “funny”, but this Beck-Obama-Rush side show, is quite comical as long
as they can’t hurt you. I guess you could say that in general about the objects
of satire.

Rob is definitely in that camp. Too bad that saving Wall St. is considered socialism by you isn’t it? Should have let the all the scum die in economic hell and then we could have cleaned house. Maybe make Wall St. into tenements for the burgeoning poor in our fair land. Many of whom can look to that same Wall St. that helped to put them there.

The active racists we already knew, it was the latent ones that are so irked now that they come up for air in that pond of theirs where they lay in wait. Even those who aren’t find themselves carrying the same signs and mouthing the same talking points not knowing where they originated. Sad, very sad.

http://www.skousen2000.com/politicalproducts/fivethousand.htm finally got the url to fully activate. Remember it must all be connected or it won’t fully do so.

Kind of hard to invent anything when these guys say it in their own words Jason.

It is Hutu and Tutsi, artificial creations of the Germans when they ruled and carried over by the British along with the boarders drawn. You must be thinking of Bishop Desmond Tutu.

These guys have millions listening, watching and reading their books. They make millions of dollars and are all over the place. You are more likely to hear them on someone’s car radio than anything else other than some evangelist. So they are deadly and dangerous and there isn’t much to counter them in the same venues with the same sweep of talk radio and TV. Do not underestimate or dismiss them at your peril.

Beck is an obviously bipolar self admitted alcoholic and Limpbaugh is a fat ass glutton drug addict. The President has the sense not to lower his dignity and wallow with them and their ilk, to his credit. The fact is that Obama is a Kenyan American, never raised in a ghetto, no heritage of slavery therefore no stake in reparations. Limpbaugh is a parasite to society who live on the air ways provided to him by the government, a socialist. Beck is mentally ill who takes advantage of his mental illness. Those whom listen to those two buffoons are those without dignity being ignorant and gullible. Their mindsets is that of addicts which continues forever. Two 10th rate psycho’s whose audiences don’t even have the sense to go for the 1str rate psycho’s such as Hitler, Himmler, Goebbels which are easily accessed on the internet.

In large areas of the West, in big sky country such as in New Mexico or Arizona
or Utah, etc.  there is no media diversity.  You don’t see alternative weekly
newspapers and you can’t hear NPR on the dial.  The conditions of life that
people are used to in larger cities might as well exist on another planet.

These are “red states” because there is no media market in individual towns and
smaller cities.  Talk radio blankets the airwaves and serves to provide the
“news” because it reinforces stereotypes that less well educated, poor, and less
well traveled people tend to believe.

There is a reason that Limbaugh and Beck appeal to the “red state” crowd. 
They all want to believe that backward is best.  They are afraid of the increased
pace of life and the complexity of modern civilization and hope it can be
repealed in favor of some idea of the 1950s.

And yes, the appeal is primarily to an anti-education, racist mixture. 

It is time the country was run by progressive people who actually believe in
science, education and a healthier multicultural society based on an
enlightened concept of social justice.  Those who really don’t understand
modern life ought to accept that they aren’t leaders.

Getting paid for stoking the coals of hate must be a very hard job, but someone has to do it!  For a stoking they will do, making money from hate is most interesting, seemingly both so capitalistic and Christian.

Agreed that Conason melodramatically overacts in the last paragraph that weakens his
entire article.

But that doesn’t diminish the rest of his observations.  Poison begets poison.  Poison is
a substance that causes injury, illness, or death, usually by a chemical substance which
is what issues forth from Limbaugh’s and Beck’s mouth.  Take an acidity test and I bet
the test strip would burn in your hands.  They gargle and spit out the vile substance
along with their cankered words that are intended to have a harmful influence on the
public that thrives on that kind of self-manufactured toxicant.  So yes, they preach hate
to their own choir, which must mean their choir are receptacles of hateful poison thus
begetting more production of hateful poison.  Their congealed brains make them
immune to the mephitic substance, which is why they can keep spewing it, which also
carries with it a foul-smell.  Their public has special umbrellas that can double for
toxic piss that is blown on the wind from others of their ilk.  They contaminate the
public airwaves.  Yes they are hilarious, but thrilling satirists they are not.  I could go
for loathesome broadcasters.  The obsession mentioned is perpetrated by the
masturbating news media who thrills at talking about themselves.  If the idiots don’t
understand their so-called satire, and aims at only those who do understand , then for
whom does the satire have any value?  Most likely then for reinforcement value.  And
those for whom L’s & B’s melliferous Words of Depravity are meant will be able to live
as pretenders of humans ever after.  Talk about a melodramaturgic post!  Can’t help it.

Oh, come on, Joe. Why are you, and, apparently Obama, so incredibly obsessed
with these guys? It is Obama himself, and his not-so-slick PR team that
elevated them, no DRAGGED Obama, down to his “level”.

Even if you win a temporary “one-up” on them, with a smart remark on
Letterman, you just fuel the flame for a whopper of a comeback on another
day. It never ends when you keep upping the ante.

Rush and Beck are totally hilarious. Didn’t you ever listen to Orson Welles? Most
importantly, if you DID you had one of two reactions (War of the Worlds, radio
version). You either took it seriously and jumped out the window, or you “got
it” and enjoyed the exciting, thrilling satire.

The best satire is when the idiots don’t get it. It is SO what is happening now… 
And no one who understands it would say satire is impotent.

Joe, can you go one week without mentioning them? I wonder.

(I can’t believe you end your article by actually answering a rhetorical “question”
asked by Rush. You, and Obama, complete the cast of characters, elevating it
to new theatrical heights).

Big B is right, as he usually is. (homeboy, you going to the Pittsburgh demo?)  These media truthers are pandering and reinforcing the racism that already exists in the population.  Which is especially large in Western Pa.

The US has been ruled throughout its history by a racist plutocracy that allied with Whites across racial lines in order to rule. 

This rule has been disguised by rigged elections that can be manipulated by money, media, rules and management to serve their interests.  Who controls the economy controls the electoral system, although this is not stated in a simple way by political science because it is not politically scientific to say so.

Beck and Limbarger are sponsored by large corporations owned by racists.  It is the money that puts these people on the air that is the power source, just as it is the money that put Obama in office that is the problem.  The public figures are simply the face of money.  And they have been spewing this kind of garbage for centuries in the media to devide the population and rule, and unite the White population against non-Whites.

Big B writes
Don’t hate barry because he is black, hate him because he is a corporate tool.
=====================================================

Obama is all that and more. As soon as I found out that the great puppet master Brzezinski was the man behind the curtain during the campaign,I knew Obama was the choice of our masters and therefore just a softer image of the same old agenda It the political version of good cop, bad cop

During the next election one should look for the pol being deride the most by the traditional media(Paul,Kucinich,Nader) and vote for that person because that will be the pol that the elite fear the most.

Beck and Limbaugh are mad entertainers and whatever they are on should be
announced and once known outlawed as a drug. They may even believe the
venom that spews from the exit portal located above rather than below the
missing heart. This is rather sad for their thoughts are processed and emanate
from the lowest chakra and therefore should exit from the portal in that area. The
ranting and raving get worse as the ability to shock lessons. Most Americans
should have reached this conclusion long ago as I did.

In 1798, President John Adams signed into law the Alien and Sedition Acts, the fourth of which, the Sedition Act or “An Act for the Punishment of Certain Crimes against the United States” set out punishments of up to two years’ imprisonment for “opposing or resisting any law of the United States” or writing or publishing “false, scandalous, and malicious writing” about the President or Congress (but specifically not the Vice-President). The act was allowed to expire in 1801 after the election of Thomas Jefferson to the presidency.

Too bad it expired, Limpbaugh is a perfect candidate and Beck a close secxond.

Glenn Beck recommends the writings of former FBI
Special Agent (and John Birch Society endorser and
JBS speaker) W. Cleon Skousen.

In fact, Glenn Beck wrote the “Foreward” to the 2009
edition of Skousen’s best-selling book, The 5000 Year
Leap
http://www.skousen2000.com/political products/fivet
housand.htm

However, both Cleon Skousen and his admirers have
misrepresented Skousen’s FBI background and inflated
his credentials.

Some, like the John Birch Society, claim that Skousen
was a “top aide” to J. Edgar Hoover [See, for
example, JBS Bulletin, January 1968, page 1] OR that
Skousen was an “administrative assistant” to Hoover.

Others claim that Skousen had extensive investigative
experience while he served in the FBI—particularly
with respect to internal security-related matters.

But ALL of these claims are utter falsehoods.

Furthermore, senior FBI officials expressed very
derogatory judgments about Skousen’s post-FBI
endeavors.

In fact, they scornfully described him as someone who
allied himself with “professional anti-communists”
who represented the “extreme right” in our country
and FBI officials thought Skousen was mis-using his
FBI service to falsely claim expertise in subject
matters which he did not possess.

For a detailed 26-page report (recently updated) on
Skousen which is based, primarily, upon his FBI
personnel file, see:

http://ernie1241.googlepages.com/skousen