“Outraged hates to be misunderstood, and to be understood makes Outraged furious.”

“What outraged means by this is that I do not agree with his own unique belief system thus I must be a closed minded person.”

“Just the childish and unnecessary “hit” proves what an ass outraged really is, one should think.”

I think the three citings above clearly state my position, and thanks ‘OM’ for the quote. That the aptly named “outraged” cannot tolerate any difference of opinion, immediately descending to diatribe and personal insult, as well as inferences as to motivation ( the ridiculous and childish comment regarding an “alliance of some stupid sort between OM and myself for example, when the facts are that h/she and I have almost never agreed upon anything) puts outraged in the spotlight with devastating effect.

I’ve really no further comments on his shallowness or lack of relevance at this time and will descend no further into the mud h/she so readily wallows within. I do reserve the privilege, however, of commenting on the political positions that this or any other poster places before the forum.

I might be better off just turbo scrolling past those posts, we shall see.

Well, I believe you just made an excellent point. You certainly fully understand what you are speaking about, and I can truly get behind that. Thanks for staying so upfront and so sincere.

Kind Regards,
http://www.extremehealthusa.com/

Re: KDelphi

Your comment: “Can we agree that, to cover MORE people on Mediciad (which is better than nothing, except it wil prolong the agony of the medical industrial complex) we should not Cut Medicaid or Medicare?”

It all depends.  Remember the Bush doughnut hole?  It was an expensive disaster which denied more than it covered.  The “cuts” that are proposed do not sound detrimental from what I understand.  There’s a very good article in the The Washington Post explaining the proposal, an excerpt. (remember this excerpt is referencing the Clinton “overhaul” and not the Bush fiasco)

“That’s what happened after the last major assault on Medicare spending, when Clinton and a Republican Congress approved a package of cuts remarkably similar to the one now on the table. The Balanced Budget Act of 1997 was expected to save $112 billion over five years—a 9 percent reduction in projected spending on par with the 10 percent in the Baucus bill. The cuts wound up saving so much more than expected that Congress reversed some of them in 1999 and 2000, said Jon Gabel, a senior fellow at the National Opinion Research Center.

....And it dramatically added to the solvency of Medicare,” he said, extending the life of the trust fund by 15 years.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/27/AR2009092703277.html

Re: ardee

Your comment:  “No, I do not “Kapeesh”,”

I know…I know.  But hey… you have to admit, I’m not the only one who KNOWS THIS, you excluded… of course.

Re: OzarkMichael

Your comment: “I know that my agreement with anyone at Truthdig is the kiss of death for them.

Maybe thats why i do it. On purpose. Taking StuartH out.”

You “took StuartH out”?  Shit….  I missed this phantasmagorical abomination.  Whatever.  So, I was wondering did Harry Potter’s friends show up at your window with their “flying car” so you could go out and celebrate?

Outraged—thank you. Can we agree that, to cover MORE people on Mediciad (which is better than nothing, except it wil prolong the agony of the medical industrial complex) we should not Cut Medicaid or Medicare?

I wont go thru the HR 676 debate again.

But , the uS wil eventually get universal health care or not have a job left for anyone. Except the elites in govt, whose health insurance we pay for.

Outraged says: I have to admit that that “little conundrum” of YOU and OZARKMICHAEL finding yourselves in total agreement…. is well… suspect

I know that my agreement with anyone at Truthdig is the kiss of death for them.

Maybe thats why i do it. On purpose. Taking StuartH out.

In which case i am covertly assisting Outraged. And my assistance of Outraged is… well… suspect.

Outraged, September 28 at 1:33 am #

No, I do not “Kapeesh”, and you must have a sort of selective amnesia.

Re: ardee

Your comment: “You have a history of insult and anger, as do I as well , in fact.”

As the old saying goes, SPEAK FOR YOURSELF.  I disagree that according to YOU, we would find ourselves “in the same boat” so to speak.  One of us surely must be “disoriented”.

The proof is in the pudding.  Come ahead… my ideological friend.  Qualify your accusations.

I have to admit that that “little conundrum” of YOU and OZARKMICHAEL finding yourselves in total agreement…. is well… suspect.  I question it, hey… it is certainly a “buyer beware” supposition.  By all means… correct me if I’m wrong.

For the record, I kinda SLANT toward the “caveat venditor” supposition.  Kapeeesh?

Re: KDelphi

Your comment: “Killer Bud—I have been watching the Senate Finance Comm.(led by BaucASS) debating the lousy health care bill (I’m not just pissing and moaning, I know many whose lives depend on it—not all 45,000 of them this year, though..) and NONE of these people knows a damn thing about Community or public Health…of course, why would they??

They dont seem to realize that Medicaid is about 60/40 Fed/state. Neither does the CBO…if they cut Medicare and Medicaid , while increasing the rolls, it will be a disaster.”

I would like to respond specifically to the portion of your post I have bolded.

I, for one (and I don’t believe I am alone) agree.  Your posts have never been “dictated to you”, at least from my perspective.  It is my belief you have a GENUINE concern, and repeatedly eschew A STRONG VOICE for the dispossessed.  While we may/might disagree upon the “best avenue” to take regarding our common concern.  I would like you to understand that (for what it’s worth), I think you a LEGITIMATE VOICE.

Soldier on.

Outraged, September 27 at 4:02 am #

How childish and stupid are you going to be?

You have a history of insult and anger, as do I as well , in fact. The difference is that opinions make you angry if they disagree with your own cherished belief system while I get mad at liars and those who distort, those who respond to honest opinion with insult and carelessness. I then feel free to respond in kind.

We are both wrong of course, but you are stuck in teenage angst I fear, for which the solution is more difficult.

Outraged says to ardee: Of course, when I transpose your remarks against genuine comments that others make ( I use mine as only an EXAMPLE ).... your supposition appears questionable.

ardee needs a model of proper communication to follow so his “suppositions” dont come out so “questionable”.  As one of the stalwart “others”, and as a public service, allow me to contribute one “EXAMPLE” of a “genuine comment” about Outraged which we all can accept without question:

Outraged hates to be misunderstood, and to be understood makes Outraged furious.

“ardee” says: “What outraged means by this is that I do not agree with his own unique belief system thus I must be a closed minded person.”

An example of ardee’s “open-mindedness”.

(while grammatically incorrect, still the point is unmistakeable) “If I can talk around the childish and asinine comments of that certain increasingly bitter and acerbic little fellow I will continue to discussion.”

Gee….thanks “ardee”, for that INCREDIBLY supposed open-mindedness.  It warms my very heart.

Of course, when I transpose your remarks against genuine comments that others make ( I use mine as only an EXAMPLE ).... your supposition appears questionable.  Such as your determination of my comment,

“Just the childish and unnecessary “hit” proves what an ass outraged really is, one should think.”

Are you able to QUALIFY this comment?  (By all means…please DO, if you can) Additionally, why do you feel the NEED to attack those who disagree with you, in a very specifically PERSONAL way…?

I notice that… if I disagree with you, I am,  according to YOU, “an ass”.

Do you have anger issues…?  (Strangely enough, I’ve never felt the NEED to beat up on grammas, children or animals…..unlike Glen Beck)

For the record… I disagree with you “ardee”.  You may not like that, however this is the truth.  Your claim of objectivity certainly falls upon “deaf ears” from my perspective.  My conjecture would also be that you find people who disagree with you “resistant” to your “proclivities”.

I’m sorry but Obama is no FDR or LBJ on the economy or health care. Call him Herbert Hoover II.

Injecting race politics into health care has only made a totally watered down but mandatory-care that would have been otherwise impossible to pass get a “free” pass. Whatever Obama won is irrelevant because it is we the people who are going to be put to more tears should this HR3200 health care poison bill pass. The Obamabots are even worse in deriding those who oppose this rotten plan of his “Republican” or worse “racist”.

re: Sienal

No I think you have the wrong target, your post is the work of a twisted one. Only a repthugian troll would make a mountain out of a very stupid mole hill. As someone who doesn’t and never will support the NEA (knowing federal funding of art is ridiculous to begin with), creating the Buffy Wicks demon is yet another useless whine from GOP operatives who thought nothing when both Bush presidents, papa and baby, packed their administrations with their own brand of corrupt political cronies. Yet when Barack Obama is found engaging in the very same thing, you scream foul. Your crowd’s complaints are nothing but the ravings of frustrated misanthropes who discover that a man with a permanent tan has beaten them at their own game. Sorry Sienal, but your Wicks protest is a mockery of any true complaint.

Killer Bud, September 26 at 12:14 am #

Hi Ardee,
Your civility is noted and appreciated. So I’ll tone down my sarcasm. The stem cell research was a big, no huge reason why I voted for Obama. I don’t agree with everything he has proposed, but I do see a man who seems to care about our country and is really trying to do a good job. I sure as heck don’t have the cajones to do it.

Thanks for the response, both content and tone. If I can talk around the childish and asinine comments of that certain increasingly bitter and acerbic little fellow I will continue to discussion.

You note that you voted for President Obama, in large part because of the issue of stem cell research. I grant that the resumption of such research is a great boon to science and, potentially humanity as well. But I wonder how you see those who vote against a candidate because of the single issue of abortion, or any single issue for that matter.

We have limited choices in our political life, here in this supposed bastion of freedom. What you posit seems to be the continuation of the status quo by settling for the candidates chosen for you by those who do not have your best interests at heart. I see no way to change things for the better with this methodology.

I, too, am an independent voter , leaving the Democratic Party almost ten years ago after an almost forty year membership therein. But I choose to vote for that candidate who best represents my own views, and, for three consecutive elections now that candidate has been Ralph Nader.In fact, my first vote for Nader forced me to the conclusion that leaving the party was best. I understand the reluctance of some to vote for a candidate with no chance of actually winning the office, but believe the alternative is worse.

I do not criticize Barack Obama for insincerity or character flaws, in fact I am very aware of the huge significance of his assuming the office, welcome our entry into sanity in fact, in electing a non white finally. But I do criticize him for the specifics of his decisions and appointments.

I think there is much work to be done here, important and much needed work rescuing this nation from the insidious clutches of fascism in the form of corporate control of our legislative processes, domestic and foreign policies as well. I do not believe that work can be accomplished by voting for either of the two major parties….

Doubt no more… I sense…, from the many “double-clutching” comments posted by “ardee” that you are correct.  In other words, “ardee” is not open minded.

What outraged means by this is that I do not agree with his own unique belief system thus I must be a closed minded person.

Just the childish and unnecessary “hit” proves what an ass outraged really is, one should think.

To Jean Gerard,

           
          So you do belief that you come somewhere if you keep civilized, thats what politic likes, people who live in a lethargic way, bying sleeping tv and so on.

If you want your say, or are not happy, than you become ideological hysteric, and thats the moment they can send in their robot cops.

You find hardley artikels in the media about the young people protesting against the G20, what will be the new world orde, ready for a world Hitler !!!

Here in the Corbière the wether is nice, and the wine is excelent.

Ardisias

Killer Bud—I have been watching the Senate Finance Comm.(led by BaucASS) debating the lousy health care bill (I’m not just pissing and moaning, I know many whose lives depend on it—not all 45,000 of them this year, though..) and NONE of these people knows a damn thing about Community or public Health…of course, why would they??

I have been calling and correcting them on the “doughnout hole” for dually eligible Medicare/Medicaid, what Medicaid will reimburse, the difference between states…if they dont get some health care professionals in there, they are going to f this all up, even worse than HR 3200!!

They dont seem to realize that Medicaid is about 60/40 Fed/state. Neither does the CBO…if they cut Medicare and Medicaid , while increasing the rolls, it will be a disaster.

Re: LemuelG

Your comment: “It seems some people’s political participation is limited to voting for a dictator every four years and then spending the time in between bitching ‘cause he’s not sufficiently sensitive to your very personal needs - I repeat, get a grip.”

I agree.  It’s one thing to debate an issue, even fervently…. but it is quite another to simply sit and piss and moan.

Re: Killer Bud

Your comment directed toward “ardee”, “That is if you are open minded enough to accept it. (Which I am doubting).”

Doubt no more… I sense…, from the many “double-clutching” comments posted by “ardee” that you are correct.  In other words, “ardee” is not open minded.

Re: Jean Gerard

Your comment: ”... “we should be thankful for the civilized tone that Obama is bringing to a debate that was beginning to descend into ideological hysteria and unrelated arguments over race.”  “Civilized tone” versus “ideological hysteria.”  Reasonable discussion versus “tea party” tirade.  Mutual respect versus insult and disdain.  Intelligence versus . . . .”

Thank you.

Re: TAO Walker

Your comment: “Hokahey!”

It seems this may be the ONLY thing we agree upon these days.

Obama’s kinda like the Lone Ranger - he goes around saving shit that’s in jeapardy. Like mandatory medical insurance, banks that are too big to fail, the Patriot Act and Bush’s wars. He doesn’t even have a faithful Indian companion or a white stallion. Or a sixgun… He does it all with that Colgate smile and millions of dollars in campaign donations and an army of committed lobbyists. And when he leaves town, the people say, “Who was that masked man anyway? At first we thought he was that new president we elected that promised us change…”

Hi Ardee,
Your civility is noted and appreciated. So I’ll tone down my sarcasm. The stem cell research was a big, no huge reason why I voted for Obama. I don’t agree with everything he has proposed, but I do see a man who seems to care about our country and is really trying to do a good job. I sure as heck don’t have the cajones to do it.
I try to vote for who I think is the best person for the job is at the time, and who my choices are. Some years are most definitely better then others as I’m sure you’ll understand. Hence, I am an independent that leans to the left. The most contentious issue I really have with conservatives is when they would rather push a religious agenda over science.(I am an atheist) If politicians kept their religion in church, I wouldn’t care who they worshipped.
It was religious beliefs that kept stem cell research from progressing in this country, because of this we have a lot of catching up to do. I’m not saying it a silver bullet for maladies, but research needs to be done.
Also as a humanist, I hope some healthcare reform gets passed. I am disappointed that the open round table for discussing ideas amongst doctors and insurance companies and nurses, etc on C-Span didn’t happen. Instead the status quo of closed door politics in congress took precedent, and a lot of Americans have been wary of the proposals.
Now we got people like Sarah Palin, getting the right in a frenzy distorting the language of the proposals by implying that our elderly will be killed off. Its ridiculous statements like that, that make the republicans looking desperate to find anything to slam our president with. Desperation and religion in political parties dont make them come across as very stable or productive enough to move our country forward.

re: LemuelG

“an ambivalent figurehead” ? Surely this is a joke, or perhaps naive should be directed in another direction. The chief executive and his administration, can engage in such wonderful tasks as dropping atomic weapons on civilian populations (been there, done that), embrace embargoes that kill a half a million children (been there, done that) or order strategic air strikes designed to blow impoverished people back into that holy stone age.
Perhaps it is time to wake up realize that the President of The United States is not the Queen of England.

Lemuel,

Or would it be better if Obama simply arrested and murdered those who stood in his way, leaving him free to impose universal health-care - would that be preferable?

He saves the arresting and murdering for the Islamist people. Those who oppose his health care “reforms” he leaves rather alone.

Bud, thanks for the response…I have seen this link and the other pages connected to it . I think that if the best Obama can do is boast about keeping his promise to appoint a republican to his cabinet then he boasts on emptiness.. The resumption of stem cell research is, of course, a positive, but it seems lost amidst all the negatives.

By ardee, September 25 at 7:30 am #

Killer Bud, September 24 at 5:37 pm #

Obama has done more in 9 months then Bush did in his last 4 years for America.

Care to list these accomplishments?

Hi Ardee,

I was very unimpressed with ex-president Bush. Once he lied about wmd’s to peremptorily strike a foreign country and never found any, his credibility went out the window. Stealing an election from Al Gore didn’t sit well with me either, and he was a lame duck president the last 4 years in office. I don’t think even FOX News would deny that. (Then again…) Anyways to list all his promises that he has kept so far is kinda long, so I more than happily found a link you can peruse on your own time and decide for yourself. That is if you are open minded enough to accept it. (Which I am doubting).
To be fair, the site also has a thorough link of things that he has compromised on, as well as promises he didn’t keep. Maybe if you read those you can sleep better. In the meantime this Southern Cracker is so glad Obama won the presidential race, and like I said earlier, I am having a blast watching the republicans wander aimlessly with no leadership or direction.

http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/rulings/promise-kept/?page=3

My point was/is that if you voted for Obama expecting radical reform, you are naive. Period.

Obama is intimately familiar with US law and political custom - he is changing the role of president back to what it should be - an ambivalent figurehead, with only rhetoric at his disposal to frame and lead the debate. You’ve got change - if it wasn’t what you were expecting, then you weren’t listening too carefully.

It seems some people’s political participation is limited to voting for a dictator every four years and then spending the time in between bitching ‘cause he’s not sufficiently sensitive to your very personal needs - I repeat, get a grip.

I have come to believe now that many on both the ‘left’ and ‘right’ are craving a more pure fascism/despotism - “no civil-servant for us thanks! We’d like us a messiah to come and wave his magic-wand, smiting the wicked and correcting the wrongs in this universe” - that’s your problem, wanting a better world but too damn lazy to do anything about it, other than whine on the internet.

Obama has shown you the way - communtiy organizing, thinking positively - fix your neighbourhood, fix your own attitude before you try saving the world. Voting for president is next to meaningless, organizing in your neighbourhood to get some kind of free clinic happening can directly change lives for the better.

Or would it be better if Obama simply arrested and murdered those who stood in his way, leaving him free to impose universal health-care - would that be preferable?

Democracy requires direct participation by the people, not arbitrary decision-making by an unaccountable executive-branch.

Here is the link (hopefully it will work) to Lori Wallach’s comments about the WTO:
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/9/25/report_us_initiated_wto_rules_could

Reading the many intelligent comments on this thread, from ardee to Ian Kocher, Big B, Big Wes, Super Lou, KDelphi, Tropicgirl, Tao Walker and many others, I can’t not but think that even the most ardent and (by now) jaded Obama enabler will not eventually see the monstrous and disastrous folly of his policies. The Democrats for all their purported compassion and altruism, are in reality, the flip side of the Republicans. Both belong to the same Corporate Coin. Perhaps it is because of their populist cache from the past, but for some strange reason, the elected Democrats and their elected executive, are reluctant to do the bureaucratic purges that any self concerned republican administration would have initiated immediately. A good historic example of this: does anybody remember what Ronald Reagan did to the EPA?
With the GOP in charge, a Stalinist like purge always seemed certainly in order. When the great Thurgood Marshall was replaced on the Supreme Court, Papa Bush chose the most unqualified clown he could find, provided that his skin was dark. There was grumbling of course, about pubic hairs on a Coke can, but Clarence Thomas passed through.
To move up to the present situation, President Obama has gone to Pittsburgh to pass out more global corporate soap, while simultaneously performing his pro-Israel duties, by stirring up the nuclear cauldron on Iran.
The protesters meanwhile demonstrate, venting heir frustration and anger at the distasteful knowledge that Capitalism and its associated shell game, has sold nearly everyone down the river. But perhaps what they might take note of is something Lori Wallach of Public Citizen has pointed out: this sell out began a decade ago, when President Clinton and his free trade wonder boys signed onto the World Trade Organization agreement, which in effect already abrogated Glass-Steagall. In fact as attorney Wallach has pointed out, simply reviving the Glass-Steagall Act could find the United States in violation of the WTO!
It is not difficult to realize that when human civilization has to take a back seat to global monetary concerns, seeking a solution from an irrational, inhuman system, is the ultimate exercise in futility.
There simply has to be a better way. Unfortunately the actors on the present political stage are way too beholden to their corporate makeup masters.

re: KDelphi

As noted the correct link can be found at my 8:06 am comment, or on your recent post (thank you). One of the things about the Lapham article was, as a former managing editor of Harper’s magazine, he was able to introduce some Harper’s Index facts in there, including the appalling ratio between battered women and animal shelters. The lucid precision of his writing is remarkable.

LemuelG—What we are experiencing may be many things, but it is NOT “Dermocracy”! Capitalism is NOT a
‘system of governance”.

Yes, lofty words and Ideas—thats what people were searching for—we dont need health care, a stop to US Imperialism, a change to our entire “economic” (lol!!) “system”...we just need to have someone make use feel good about voting for such a “smart” guy!

Thanks, beerdr, but the link didnt work—good article!!

http://www.alternet.org/story/142833/we_expect_immortality_from_medicine_—_and_it’s_destroying_our_health/

Among many important points, one stands out ot me personally—HMOs being willing to pay for MRIs to diagnose,(mostly because they stand to benefit from their investment in MRIs) and, then being unwilling to pay for treatment to said “treatment” of the diagnosis! We would be better off just not knowing. That is how I now feel, anyway.

And the fear of “advance directives”—hell, I have had one since a serious accident and put my attorney in charge of it, for fear my family would feel guilty and not comply!

There are worse things than being dead, and, many things that could be easily “fixed” go ignored in the name of “new technology”, which is always assumed to “improve life” and often doesnt.

What an nice evening, and now the young people protesting, who geth the same treatment as the people in that god forgiving Iran.

What an hypocrites they are this democrats.

“These are the people who take their tax returns and spend it immediately making deferred car or home repairs, buying new clothes, purchasing appliances, and other.  Great way to squash demand in our free market economy!”—Big Wes

Don’t get me wrong, I’m for real reform, but if desperate people are taking their tax returns and buying new clothes and appliances then it’s clear that this financial crisis hasn’t taught anyone anything.  How about you make your old clothes work for another season?  How about you shop at the Goodwill?  Say, why not use a knife to chop those carrots rather than blowing a load on a Cuisinart?  American consumerism is the most vulgar thing I’ve ever seen, especially among the low-income demographic.  The stereotype of the trailer with the BMW out front ain’t a complete fiction now.  A little restraint would go along way.  I know because I lived near or below the poverty line for years, and without health insurance.  How’d I manage?  Simple: Self Denial.

LemuelG’s comments seem to be a progressive version of a “love or leave it” bumper sticker mentality. Get a grip? No, I do not think that is necessary because I am not interested in filming a movie, since this is not a back lot in Hollywood. Otherwise that tired cliche belongs in the same round file (speaking of cliches!) as that other infamous “get a life”. Perhaps all of this is a necessary by-product of buyer’s remorse over supporting Barack Obama, who has revealed himself to be quite an effective shill for a system that is absurdly and tragically laughable, but certainly not excusable.
But you got to applaud the ever so smart BHO, who reaches his hand out to a GOP leadership that cares absolutely nothing about his ideas or agenda, which by that way, there is nothing radical about at all, let me just call it: Corporate Lite.
Let’s do, as they do in televised sports, a game recap:
1. Iraq war continues with further funding of private mercenary contractors.
2. War in Afghanistan escalates with more money and more troops.
3. President Obama’s administration saves the financial system by allowing those banks who contributed handsomely to his campaign war chest to loot $ trillions from the national treasury.
4. President Obama continues to work diligently to make sure the executive class of the health and pharmaceutical industries can make even MORE money.
Yes my fellow citizens, this is certainly not a do-nothing president. If only we were the beneficiaries of his executive branch largesse.

The comment posted at 8:06 am provides the correct link to the Lewis Lapham article.

It has become boring to read of Democratic, Obama voters who’ve become disillusioned because ‘change’ has not been quick or radical enough… what can I say? Get a grip, these guys are no Bolsheviks - you ought to have been able to guess that before voting.

The level of debate over issues which have for a long time been un-mentionable in mainstream political discourse can itself be seen as a huge success. Period.

Never mind the irrational political outrage, religious fanaticism, rampant capitalism and corruption - that stuff is more American than apple pie, and are the founding principles of the union itself.

The primary problem with introducing universal (even a bastardized version thereof) health-care in the US is surely the difficulty of applying a one-size-fits-all policy across the entire federal system.

The revolution was fought primarily against the idea that arbitrary laws and taxes could be imposed upon them (the states) by a power which was unnacountable to their own legislatures - it was a fundamentally noble cause, and even if providing health-care to those in need is a good thing, one moral-truth does not cancel out another.

Democracy is not the sole-reserve of the socially-minded, y’know? Obama knows this; he is smarter than you, and this article is right - Obama cannot walk into congress and steam-roll anyone who opposes a more humane system, the best he can do is to try and spread the idea and hope others pick up on it.

Bush (Cheney) might have waded-in, kickin’ ass - leaked the word Joe Wilson was an abortion-doctor, and planted a dead hooker in Glen Beck’s limousine… they might have hammered the thing through if they’d been able to abuse the President’s powers any further… would it make you happy?

The system ain’t perfect - but that’s democracy - it can often be incapable of acting decisively, that’s why fascists hate it. Live with it, or become revolutionary.

http://www.alternet.org/healthwellness/142833/we_expect_immortality_from_medicine_—_it’s_destroying_our_health/

“Any system that construes medical care as a profit-bearing commodity is by definition dysfunctional.”
LEWIS LAPHAM
A quote from Lapham’s brilliantly written analysis of this insane mess. I do not know if this link will work. If it does not, please take the time and trouble to Google search and find it:
http://www.alternet.org/healthwelness/142833/

Killer Bud, September 24 at 5:37 pm #

Obama has done more in 9 months then Bush did in his last 4 years for America.

Care to list these accomplishments?

“words” dont matter as much as actions.

You can only appreciate Obama’s new blitz if you are more concrned with his presidencial legacy than the welfare of the American people.

I agree with ardee.

“Cool”, “no drama” Obama is seeming like Cold and calculating to me. But, then, he always did.

himbo, McCain’s “plan” was, what, giving people tax credits?? Whats the diff? ANyone who has lived in a civilized country knows what we need to do. Its not that difficult. Its in the UN Charter on Human Rights. Every civilized country on earth has it. The insurance industry provbides nothing but campaign donations.

The argument itself has become pathetic.

The Dem/Obama “plan” is just impossible to defend and will pass “health care reform” off for another generation.

But, I knew that he would.
The Dems will lose control of the Senate im 2010, giving them an even bigger excuse for Obama’s failure to change anything.

“better ‘n Bush”—the permanent Democratic Party mantra for the rest of our lives. Youve just all been “down” so long its “looks like up”.

The touted exchange between Mr. Obama and Mr. Stephanopoulos is, in my view, an example of presidential bullying.  When Mr. Stephanopoulos challenged Mr. Obama’s assertion by defining the central term (an essential part of honest debate), Mr. Obama engaged in an ad hominem attack instead of either conceding the point or offering an alternative definition.  Sadly, the so called ‘mandate’ fits the definition of a tax, and affable obfuscation deserves no praise.  Mr. Stephanopoulos stopped short of pressing the point, as Mr. Obama no doubt expected he would.

My anger over the right-wing talk radio doughboy, the tea-bag guided missiles, and the demagogues on Fox Near-News demanded kick-ass. Obama has shown intelligence and restraint while progressive Democrats in Congress fear their own shadows, blue-dog Democrats health care kiss fat cat asses, and Republicans count their money from special interest lobbyists.

Maybe Obama is right.

This kind of material image worship is only helping ruin any meaningful discussion of the issues. Obama is a lawyer, the man knows how to yap, but a serious examination of current government policy and actions shows he’s a typical, Clintonesque centrist.

hello. again i have to see a picture of the presidential seal symbolically placed upside down on a coffee cup. this war of attrition against the public is giving everyone a headache, but we can cure that ourselves. what he is doing while he greases the palms of all his radical Islam extremist friends is trying desperately to pass new tax revenues to support their tyrannical regimes, and we may need health care afterwards. however, opening the nation to interstate insurance competition would solve cost problems, tort reform would help the medical industry, and nothing addresses the cruel nature of profiteering when someone is at their weakest; dependent; in pain; and suffering. yes he has polished 3 items he has decided in his own intelligence are the most important features for public health care reform, and he pitches them alike a car salesman (oh yeah, he is one); but ignoring everything else, to sign a bill: for the sake of generating revenue is Beltway politics as usual. the change has been that he changed his mind once he got into office, and we are all suckers, and he has already eagerly spent his wad of tax dollars into many fuhrer( keeps coming out of my subconscious) future generations. i do not think he was ever asked about his qualifications to act as president, so here we have our elected fellow needing to rekindle his celebrity status- because he liked it when everybody unquestionably let him have his way so as not to engender public outrage. apparently the status is all he brought with him to the White House. let health care reform die in the $80/mile ambulance ride to the Senate. it fixes nothing and does a world of hurt. i will anxiously await the movie when he and Arnold are out of public disembowelment and join to emasculate profits from the entertainment industry.

Boyarsky writes: The president knows that words count
and: Words matter. They set the tone

But apparently Words “count” and “matter” only when Boyarsky and his fellow cheerleaders think they count and matter.

Because Boyarsky & his fellow cheerleaders have either forgotten or ignore the fact that Obama *CAMPAIGNED* against Hillarys health care mandates. And if they pretend otherwise, what does that make them?

http://www.ontheissues.org/Archive/2008_AdWatch_Health_Care.htm

Here’s straight from Obamas campaign: “We don’t want to put [adults] in a situation in which, on the front end, we are mandating them…to purchase insurance.”
http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/campaign-2008/2008/04/18/where-clinton-obama-and-mccain-stand-on-healthcare-.html

Boyarsky finishes with this: “That is why President Obama’s conduct during this historic health care fight—his words, his optimistic manner—may be more important than all the details of the bill he eventually signs”
(Wow! The reader might want to re-read this a few times)

What is important is that Obama flip flopped on a critical campaign promise. Why should anyone believe anything he says at anytime?

Boyarsky has no doubt heard “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me”. Well Mr. Boyarsky, some of us aren’t fooled so easily

Obama has done more in 9 months then Bush did in his last 4 years for America.

I am having a blast watching those right wing conservatives running around chasing their tails like a neurotic dog with fleas. Makes my day everytime I think about it. hahahaha!

Factor-in Barack Obama’s patronizing, self-absorbed, out-of-touch address to the U.N. yesterday, and a clear picture emerges of america the “global” juvenile delinquent trying to evade the CONsequences of its bullying ways by blaming the victims.  He made no mention, of course, of the shameless posturing and self-serving manipulations to which the U.S. has regularly subjected the U.N….not even to mention so many of its members.

His remarks were obviously for mainly ‘domestic’ CONsumption, pandering as they did to that ever worsening psychosis known as allamerican “exceptionalism.”  A people who cannot face the plain truth about their own selfs, and the degenerate CONdition they’re in, is already in the “throes” of their ultimate self-destruction.

It’s not at all likely the president’s immediate audience failed to see right through the charade….or that their countries are suddenly eager to follow his “america-is-again-ready-to-lead” boastfulness over the cliff.  No wonder his handlers wanted him on the same ‘bill’ as Qaddafi and Achmedinejad, lest his well-scripted and sonorously delivered words ring even hollower than they did anyhow.

Talk about an exercise in arrested delevopment.

Hokahey!

Moving a lot of rich men’s cheese? In what way? He recently dumped a trillion
dollars in the pockets of corrupt financial institutions, of American taxpayer
money, without asking for ANY reform, setting it up to happen again.

He is going to do the same with the health insurance companies. He has
absolutely NO intention of really reforming it. He’s forcing people to patronize
them. But NO MATTER WHAT THEY VOTE ON, if the public is against it, it will
NEVER be implemented without lengthy legal challenges and NO COOPERATION
from the American people. And by that time the Democrats will be out of the
majority, much to their relief, since they had no intention of doing anything
good anyway.

You must be watching a different movie than I am. It won’t take a serious
public outcry for anything. It won’t work. The fix is so incredibly in. All it takes
is an honest reformer to be voted in as president, which Obama is was, and is
NOT.

In reality, Obama is a discouraged, cynical, weak, triangulating, self-loving
politician who hasn’t had a clue to what is going on in the world since Reagan
taught him economics and Ted Kennedy and Clinton showed him how to
compromise and totally cheat their base and the American people. He can’t
EVEN CONCIEVE of change, let along having enough confidence in it to do more
than vaguely suggest it.

Obama has done nothing BUT secure the rich man’s cheese. It would be better
to have Bush and/or Republicans back in office. At least the debate would
become more honest again. Right being right and wrong being wrong. Now we
have tax cheats, warmongering Zionists, free-for-all traders and corporate
mafia calling themselves progressives. And nothing but filth in Washington.
After 8 years of Bush, I must admit it makes me sicker with Obama’s name on
it.

I believe Obama’s heart is in the right place.Look at the alternative if we had McCain.This issue wouldn’t even be on the table.He is under enormous pressure - he is after all, talking about moving a lot of rich men’s cheese - and has to take the middle way as a means of effecting compromise to have a point of departure for strengthening the legislation as it goes forward.Yes the insurance industry is rotten and extremely powerful and it will take some serious dogged public outcry to change the special interest culture in DC. (I am just so grateful Bush is gone…..we have a lot of things to put straight and it is certainly not something that can be done over night.)Read Doris Kearns Goodwin’s book Team Of Rivals. Obama is evincing the same sort of statecraft within the present context as Lincoln did at his time.He is intelligent,well meaning and persuing real change but encouraging dialog and without demagogery.He is as idealistic a man to hold this office as we have had since JFK.The republicans don’t really have a damned thing to say or a leg to stand on but he is inviting them to the table.I love this website ! Right on Mr Hedges! Keep speaking truth to power.

I agree with tropicgirl.  Obama’s health care plan is a covert tax increase at its best and a covert fleecing of every American by the insurance industry at its worst.  There’s no way that the working ppor who don’t have insurance available through their employers can afford it individually.  So the IRS will slap them with fines, essentially erasing any tax return they are due. 

These are the people who take their tax returns and spend it immediately making deferred car or home repairs, buying new clothes, purchasing appliances, and other.  Great way to squash demand in our free market economy! 

I am fervently against the current health care reform bills and articles like this anger me.  This is propaganda, pure and simple.  Give us real reform!

Kind of hard to support something when we don’t know yet what it is.

He’s locking people into whatever crappy plan they have for gods sake. He’s
taking billions from Medicare (Advantage is only 1 Bil). He’s penalizing people
who are one paycheck away from total homelessness. He’s pouring almost a
trillion tax dollars into the pockets of corrupt corporations with no real “reform”
that will stand up in court, unless you make them a regulated entity, and good
luck with that. Today we hear that there will BE NO REFORM for the financial
industry that stole trillions from us already.

And then he sits there and says a penalty of thousands of dollars, to American
families, is not a “tax”? Stretching things? Who is STRETCHING THINGS Obama?

Right. And managing and limiting care, to save money, on old people, will
never, could never, result in loss of life? Really?

Conservatives and liberals want Medicare/Medicaid expanded and improved, as
needed, and leave the insurance companies to their own devices. There is
PLENTY of money for that. Period.

This man has a serious problem with the truth. This entire thing is an epoch
scam.

Truthdig: Digging beneath the headlines!
What a hoot…

I can no longer comment on articles such as the one written by Bill Boyarsky.

Ardee: I completely agree with your post!

As many bloggers at Truthdig have said, Obama is a great orator. I would like to add my voice to theirs and say “what a fine, well spoken man. Such clarity!”

For those of you who arent in the know, you can get paid for spreading a little salt around. It pays to have a positive attitude. I expect to recieve my check from the DNC as so many others have.

Stop listening to what Barry says, and start paying attention to what he does.

What he is proposing is the biggest give away since TARP. Hundreds of billions of free dollars pumped into an unregulated, for profit, healthcare industry. All with no new oversite.

This article lacks only the proper beginning…“Once upon a Time”.

A calming force means what, exactly. That Obama’s endless and meaningless rhetoric dooms this nation to a continuation of for-profit health care, that said care will continue to be exclusionary rather than inclusive, that this nation will continue to spend many times more for said care than any other nation of earth and remain about 37th in the providing of care…..

Rather than make the rounds of the talk show circuit our leader should consider actually leading. Imagine if he spent this time wrangling with the Congressional leadership of both parties, using the office of the President as a lever to put forth an articulate, intelligent, useful and well defined health care proposal.

But, alas, no, instead he cozies up to talk show hosts, demonstrates his ability to speak with eloquence and says nothing.