If all the tea beggars moved to South Carolina, then if South Carolina with several other dark aged states (please take Texas) succeeded from the USA, the USA would not be disunited, instead it would be enhanced and could finally move into the 21 century.

Then we could go to war with and occupy South Carolina and promote real democracy just like we are doing in Afghanistan and Iraq! Now that I think of it, their may not be much difference between my impressions of the Middle East and South Carolina right now anyway? Are the Taliban similar to the KKK?

To add to that one can be a nationalist but not a fascist but one will be virulent nationalist and a fascist. It is one of the things that it is composed of. The military is elevated to glorified status, promotion of enemies all around. Religion and state come very close if not mingle. Corporations get a free hand to do what they want as long as they stay within what the gov’t wants for itself. They agree more than not on what they both want.

good question, Martha.  nationalism is different than fascism, which is an extreme nationalism.  EXTREME,  as you used to put it.  Most Jews are in favor of Israel, so they are Jewish nationalists.  Just as, say, Scott Ritter is an american nationalist.

However, Brewerstroupe pointed out long ago that many pre-Israel Zionists were fascists, as in Mussolini’s Italy, for example.  So a fascism hijacked the nationalist ideology of Zionist to form what I refer to as neozionism.  Given that it is allied with neoconservatives and neoliberals.

thanks for asking.  The only way I can clarify my thinking is by presenting comments concisely.

Well Topicgirl by using progressive in “” renders it as something else. So they aren’t Progressive, they are “Progressive” in name only. Probably their name to use to confuse. And anyway your description does not fit a forward thinking and doing person. Supporting one side over another is Regressive. I would recommend that your knowledge of Progressives and Progressivism is lacking and hence your confusion over it.

Joe Wilson is yet another example of the “entitled” who believe that the rules of decorum, like most of the other rules of our society, don’t apply to him. He’s much too important to have to follow rules.

Robert Anson Heinlein once noted that rudeness to strangers and the loss of public civility are among the first signs of a deteriorating culture.

To my way of thinking, Joe Wilson personifies the reason why people who desire election to public office shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near a place where democracy is being carried out. Their interests and those of their constituents are not often compatible.

I would give you two examples, Night Gaunt, at “Progressives” (whatever that
is) being neo-zionists.

Obama’s, SUSAN RICE (the woman that wishes she had a male appendage to
bulldoze Palestinian homes herself) that initiated the “walk out” of the, what
was it, Racism or Human Rights event at the UN. What the hell do you call that
crap?

And this bullcrap about supporting Mir Hossein Mousavi, the so-called “Iranian
reform candidate”, a known terrorist, who probably worked FOR Israel (look it
up) and is suspected in helping BLOW UP AMERICAN SOLDIERS on the USS Cole?
None of this has EVER been explained and we are supposed to just support him
because he makes noise to the progressives? Yet how many Democrat
operatives are over there messing with their elections? I hear Carville is already
over in Afghanistan making nice with their opposition candidate and yelling
stolen election. It never ends.

These examples just skim the surface of the so-called “progressive” support
for zionism. It takes a little digging and persistence and an open mind.

Whatever the “progressives” have become, I really don’t like the smell. Be wary
of labels. Watch what they do, not what they say, as the saying goes. It is easy
to change your label as a politician, but thank god we have the internet with a
memory.

Folktruther,

Folktruther said: “the former tends to be anti-semitic (but often pro-neozionist and the latter is neozionist.  The historical outlook is not good.”

MarthaA’s answer:  I also would like to know who/what are the neozionists?  Neo is new, therefore it would appear that new Zionists are different from old Zionists, if so, what is the difference?

Please explain “neo-Zionist” and how it relates to progressives? From what I see they look at people as human beings not as political, religious or ethnic groups. Tell me otherwise. They are attacked for also supporting the Palestinians as on the same level as Israelis. No favorites unless they are all favorites. So I disagree with your assessment at this time.

White racism is increasing in the US, both among Conservatives and Progressives.  the former tends to be anti-semitic (but often pro-neozionist) and the latter is neozionist.  The historical outlook is not good.

Night Gaunt,Obama has no heritage of slavery in his ancestry. His father arrived by plane because he wanted to come to the USA. He should be referred to as a Kenyan American. All white people are not referred to as European Americans. As such Obama has no stake in reparations and a lot of what makes sense to African Americans with a slavery heritage makes no sense to him except intellectually.

RE:  Night-Gaunt

“It is only when the people become ignorant and corrupt, when they degenerate into a populace, that they are incapable of exercising their sovereignty. Usurpation is then an easy attainment, and an usurper soon found. The people themselves become the willing instruments of their own debasement and ruin.”—James Monroe

As true today as ever, perhaps truer.

It would be nice if Obama would join us himself instead of being on the same side as Reagan, GHWBush, Clinton, & GWBush 29 years of subverting our country on the road to where we are today. Power to the corporations and mixing of it with church and state to the slow eviceration of the Constitution/Bill of Rights. The destruction of the Middle Class and our economy in general, the latter of which has not been saved, just triaged. We could still have a hard crash to add to the present strangulation we have right now. A national Code Blue emergency.

It is ironic indeed that Obama is working for a group that traces part of its history back to the first Civil War (1861-1865) and its race based form of slavery. However, they also traced back to the original Guilded Age and to the attempted coup in 1934 and race is secondary to class for many of them. (Segregation into homelands could be on their menu.) They may still win in the very near future if we can’t break their hold on us. The hold most of the cards in this game.

The Repubs, in addition to a change of leadership, also need a change of platform, Oldog.

How far the mighty have fallen. Five years ago Carl
Rove dreamed the Republican party could have a
permanent hold on government, and was hastily
stuffing civil service positions with party
loyalists, while Cheney’s antics drove all moderates
from the ranks.

Now they’ve become the permanent malcontents,
dreaming no doubt, of being swept back into power by
bringing government to a standstill during a
Democratic majority.

The party of ‘No’ will never carry the majority of
middle-of-the-road Americans. ‘No’ resurgence is
possible now, without a complete change of
leadership.

When these Right-Wing Tea Party Demonstrations are going on,  the real Liberal Left needs to join them, in their march for freedom and justice. They are the deceived Left.  The not deceived Left needs to join them with the Left’s Liberal signs of Obama, Peace, Justice, Freedom but get right in the middle of them smiling, friendly, and peacefully help them march for freedom and justice only use your own signs and yells.  Because, President Obama is not the problem, President Obama is the only solution the Left has at the current time.  Trying to destroy President Obama is not in the best interest of the Left.

In the Primary Election, which is coming up soon, January in some states, we need to vote as many CONSERVATIVES and MODERATES OUT of the Left as we can and replace them in the General Election with Liberals. We have to get rid of the Right-Wing of the Democratic Party, because we should be tired of the democratic donkey having a RED HEAD, and he still does. There should not be ANY Conservatives or Moderates on the Left for there to be political equilibrium.

Wilson is at the spear-point of history.  The sons of generations of terrorists, slaveholders and the ultimate traitors to America—the CSA.

And the first state in treason back then? South Carolina.

Joe Wilson is another one in a long line of traitors who don’t believe in our freedoms, believing instead in white supremacy, slavery and a mafia system of might makes right.

When People claim to be ‘patriots’ we must begin by asking “To What?”
Our Founders Fought the Symbols of elitism and Priviledge
The South Rejected the Republic for which the rest of US stand.Secession is the highest form of Treason.
Our greatest Generation Fought and Defeated the Nazi’s
We defeated those who barred the rights of Females and minorities through Civil Rights legislative acts.
As these people felt so free to tell those on the Left who disagreed with their presidents- “If you don’t like it leave”- I’m sure they would feel right at home in say Afghanistan- where tribalism and conflict rules and ‘Gods and guns’ is their motto too.Unwrap that Stars and Spangles from around your Shoulders and show your Red Coats hidden beneath!
These aren’t just Racists, or Whtie Supremeists or even Neo Nazi’s playing Dress up - they are traitors to this country and every generation which has contributed to it.

Don’t forget that Wilsons constituants are the same ones who kept voting Strom Thurmond into office.

Thurmond, Byrd, Hatch and even Kennedy are the main reasons I am an advocate for term limits.

Politicians are like babies diapers, they need to be changed often and for the same reason.

The only people in the Republican head of the one party are extremists, don’t you know? They are in the Democratic head of the one party too. They just haven’t cleaned out the moderates and true liberals just yet.

Obama is one of them even as he is vilified by the freak show propagandists like Glenn Beck who claims to be a Libertarian but I am sure it isn’t in the area of civil liberties. Just free corporate action without restraint. Unless you want to sue them that is. If you got money you’ve got game in their Ayn Rand economic world for the rest of us kicking a screaming.

Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST REPUBLICANS practice “Socialized Responsibility for Privatized Benefit;” —This fact is objectively proven by the Banking and Insurance Bailout of Wall Street by “Socialized Responsibility for Privatized Benefit.”

Uninsured Tea Party demonstrators running around with subjective signs demonstrating against their own best interest is foolishness and those who treat their foolish endeavor as anything other than foolishness are either fools themselves, or sophist propagandists trying to subjectively lead the people away from their own complicity in “Socialized Responsibility for Privatized Benefit.”

The Joe Wilson “disrespect of Congress incident”  makes a perfect subjective diversion for the Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Republicans  in Congress to avoid discussion relative to their “Socialized Responsibility for Privatized Benefit”  as “Socialized Responsibility for Privatized Benefit” is an objective fact that is objectively proven by the Banking and Insurance Bailout of Wall Street.  We must not allow ourselves to be distracted by this subjective Hitleresque Tea Party and Joe Wilson propaganda technique.

Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST REPUBLICANS practice “Socialized Responsibility for Privatized Benefit;” —This fact is objectively proven by the Banking and Insurance Bailout of Wall Street by “Socialized Responsibility for Privatized Benefit.”

Uninsured Tea Party demonstrators running around with subjective signs demonstrating against their own best interest is foolishness and those who treat their foolish endeavor as anything other than foolishness are either fools themselves, or sophist propagandists trying to subjectively lead the people away from their own complicity in “Socialized Responsibility for Privatized Benefit.”

The Joe Wilson “disrespect of Congress incident”  makes a perfect subjective diversion for the Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Republicans  in Congress to avoid discussion relative to their “Socialized Responsibility for Privatized Benefit”  as “Socialized Responsibility for Privatized Benefit” is an objective fact that is objectively proven by the Banking and Insurance Bailout of Wall Street.  We must not allow ourselves to be distracted by these and all the myriad other possibilities of subjective Hitleresque Tea Party and Joe Wilson type propagandistic distractions by the Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST REPUBLICANS and their Right-Wing Echo-Chamber in the media.

I believe I should mention that the Neoconservatives who surrounded Bush were passionate worshippers of Lincoln—they saw old Abe as the sort of president they wanted Bush to be (and of course, he wasn’t; certainly not after his re-election in 2004).

“...thoughtless rudeness isn’t confined by ethnicity, ideology or background…”.

Whoa, whoa, whoa…  Watch what you call rude! Let’s have a little “cleansing”
here.

War is rude and worthy of a rude comment…
Torture is rude and worthy of a rude comment or two… so is protecting them…
Stealing a trillion in taxpayer dollars to bail out crooks and pay off your
political buddies is downright rude…
Drone bombing innocents is extremely rude…
Going on expensive date nights and wearing extremely expensive clothes in
public, during a recession/depression is a little rude…
“Governing by lobbyist” is VERY rude… Worthy of many rude comments…
Killing sick people to save money is about as rude as you can get…

I think the American people know rudeness. And it is reserved for the
government at this time… (the prostitute says, why don’t they respect me?)

I say there isn’t ENOUGH rudeness! We need more of it… to the right people…
Rude is BACK! So is swearing on tv and throwing shoes at presidents. Get used
to it.

The American Empire won’t go away voluntarily.  The American people won’t get rid of the Republicans and the Democrats.  So, one effective way to finally abolish the Empire is to let the Confederacy secede, along with the Confederacy’s Blood Brothers and Sisters like Kansas.  What’s left of the Union can profitably and peacefully try to dig itself out of the hole left by the Empire builders while the Confederacy declares war on the rest of the world.

Sure is weird how political parties can change, eh, Night-Gaunt?

I have no respect for Joe Wilson’s intelligence at all, still Joe Wilson’s conduct was NOT in any way a stupid mistake, or Wilson would not be enjoying the situation as much as he is, even using his disrespect of Congress to gain money.

Joe Wilson’s disrespectful outburst in the full meeting of Congress was planned “determined gangster” stupidity to draw meaningful logical political activity away from the public health care debate and organization, to try and make meaningful public health care legislation impossible; Joe Wilson knew prior to his disrespect of Congress that he would have support from the EXTREMISTS in the Republican Party, and he did.

Here is the FRAME in Hitler’s “Mein Kampf”:

“Thus, the determined gangster is always in a position to make political activity and efforts impossible for decent people.”

Republicans try to deny that Hitler’s “Mein Kampf” is being used for their Right-Wing FRAMES in every which way they can, but it is as plain as the nose on your face that the Republicans are using the FRAMES from “Mein Kampf”. 

These FRAMES in Hitler’s “Mein Kampf” will also work for the Liberal side of politics, as they are like a two-edged sword that can cut from both sides, both constructive as well as destructive purposes.

Republican EXTREMISTS use Hitler’s FRAMES for destructive political purpose, but Progressives should use Hitler’s FRAMES for constructive political purpose; because, if used, Hitler’s FRAMES in “Mein Kampf” will work for Liberals as well as they do for Conservatives.

When you are in a war, you have to join the war, appeasement just doesn’t work and the Republicans have declared a war on Liberals.

After 1964 the parties changed sides which was why so many African Americans jumped ship. The “party of Lincoln” has more in common with Jefferson Davis (the 1st & only president of the CSA) these days now. Even as the parties & gov’t are infected with these people they continue to foment means to bring down the Republic and this is one of those ways. Another is to paralyze the function of gov’t and load it down with even more things to burden it with while not fixing the problems we have. The neo-con(federates) want a Christian corporate gov’t.

Kind of funny when one considers that the Repub party is the “Party of Lincoln” ... you’d think Abe Lincoln would be their biggest bugbear.

In any other country besides the United States, people of Joe Wilson’s ilk, and his cronies, would be brought before a tribunal of the people and in some instances shot and or killed in an appropriately public manner.
The intolerance that runs through the Repug’s Southern Wing, those of the Far Right Wing Nuts, would not be tolerated in any other country other than the U.S.
We have in America a lot to be thankful for, one of the best freedoms that we can use and abuse is the freedom of speech and the freedom of association.
Yet, in these changing times, terrorism and its adherents, can now be classified as ‘homegrown,’ and nowhere among these are people of intolerance and hatred. There is among the Southern Wing of the Far Right Wing Nuts, a deep, deep vein of racial hatred and fear of the ‘other.’
I for one, experienced this, in a place called of all things, Dixie County, Florida. There because of my heritage, I was judged to be a non-person. My grandfather, was among those of Hebrew descent and I became after that one of the out-casts of the county.
Intolerance is a way of life for those of the ‘phobic’ ilk. Anyone not like us is ‘them’ and not worthy of American citizenship or the protections afforded them by the Constitution.
Should the Repug’s continue down this path of catering to the extreme right wing nuts of the South and those of the ilk that defines themselves by changing the historical and known perspective of the party of Lincoln, then we as a nation are truly in trouble and without a doubt will be balkanized and split as a country.

Maureen Dowd in the New York Times stated that when Wilson said “You Lie!” what he actually meant to say was “You lie boy!”
Whether there is a basis for that imagined verbal extension can best be decided by what kind of company Congressman Wilson keeps.
There is always that old truism that if you hang around with dogs you are bound to come up with fleas.

I live in North Georgia where Repubican Paul Broun is the congressman. Two blocks from his North Georgia campaign HQ, in Tiger Georgia, there is a full size NAZI flag flying on the outside of a house while Broun whines about socialism, which he never defines. His district has the most gullible and ignorant people in the country who will vote against their own best interest. As for Joe Wilson and his ilk, they will just serve to make the Repubican Party restricted to the South.

The “Civil War” never really ended.  The same traitorous poison that caused the American disgrace still flows throughout the ol’ Confederacy.  It may take another century to finally destroy the cancer of the Confederacy.

Obama is making the same mistake that Lincoln made when he recalled General Sherman from his march.  Lincoln tried to compromise with the rebels and he lost his life for his efforts. 

Let’s hope Obama’s flirtation with the Republican scorpions don’t result in danger to him.