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All U.S. Presidents Need a War to Call Their Own—and Obama Has His

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Posted on Sep 16, 2009
U.S. Army / Sgt. Teddy Wade

By William Pfaff

The more one hears the discussion among Democrats about the war in Afghanistan, the more one feels that it is a serious handicap that Barack Obama has no personal experience of international relations or of foreign policy or military service, beyond such experience as one gains as a first-term U.S. senator.

His vice president, Joe Biden, has a great deal of legislative experience in these matters, and knows a lot about foreign affairs, but from hearing him speak and reading what he has written I feel no confidence in his judgment, which seems entirely the conventional wisdom of the policy community and the newspaper editorial pages, with nothing original or questioning in it.

That is to say, Vice President Biden knows everything about America’s foreign relations, but it only adds up to all that “everybody knows,” and the United States is not in a situation today that recommends the conventional wisdom as a guide to future policy.

On Afghanistan, there seems to be no coherent reason or vision as to why we are there. To “catch” Osama bin Laden, nearly 10 years after his crime? But you don’t have to take control of a country of 250,000 square miles and 33 million people in order to catch a terrorist leader. (Especially when it is taken for granted that he is in Pakistan.) You don’t have to take it upon yourself to solve Afghanistan’s internal social problems or to “defeat” (how, no one knows) the Taliban military, political and religious uprising in the country. What has that really to do with Americans?

Biden is reported to oppose “doubling up” in troops to “win” the Afghanistan battle, but because he believes Afghanistan is the wrong war and Pakistan the right war (which has not yet even started). This seems also the view of the Obama adviser Bruce Riedel, who headed an interagency policy review on Afghanistan and Pakistan some months ago, and published the findings in a recent issue of The National Interest magazine in Washington.

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His and the vice president’s position seems to be that while Afghanistan has been important enough (as a so-called nest for al-Qaida) to be worth a war, Pakistan offers a much better and more important war because it harbors not only bin Laden and Taliban but nuclear weapons as well. If you are looking for a real war, they seem to be saying, the prospect of Taliban and al-Qaida terrorists in possession of nuclear weapons makes a much more exciting war scenario than a losing counterinsurgency campaign in poor, landlocked Afghanistan, where the enemy is armed with locally made assault rifles and maneuvers on motorbikes.

It is one of the poorest countries on Earth, lacks nuclear weapons as well as any ability to build them, and has no significant resources other than agricultural land on which opium poppies flourish. Once, before all this started, its geographical location interested U.S. oil interests as providing a route for a pipeline to carry Central Asian oil to the sea. But today there are cheaper ways for moving oil than by a pipeline across a country at war.

The following scenario appears to seduce people in the Obama administration. Al-Qaida will take control of the Taliban (which is not an ally of al-Qaida, but has merely given the organization hospitality). The Taliban will take control of Pakistan away from the country’s rather highly regarded army (of nearly a million and a half active and reserve personnel), and Pakistan’s population of 176 million.

Afghanistan is composed of 33 million people. The Taliban is a minority political movement drawn from the Pashtun population, which makes up 40 percent of the total. The rest are Tajiks (26 percent), Hazaras (19 percent), Uzbeks (6 percent) and others, none of whom have displayed any desire to conquer Pakistan. Not even Hindu India would want to conquer and try to rule Muslim Pakistan, which would result in nothing but trouble for the Indians—although they might wish to eliminate Pakistan’s nuclear deterrent; but nuclear deterrents exist in order to deter other countries from eliminating the first country’s deterrent, and thus far this has worked.

A retired CIA counterterrorism chief named Haviland Smith has suggested in a newspaper article that Obama trapped himself during the campaign into having his own war (like most other recent presidents). He made the promise to leave Iraq, and to defend against Republican accusations of weakness he announced that instead he would fight the real war in Afghanistan, theoretically against bin Laden. Now Obama is caught, and has handed the war over to his military advisers, who assure him that they know how to win wars, even though they are at a loss to explain what would constitute victory in this one.

My own feeling is that the situation is worse. I think the American government now has become institutionally a war government, which finds its purpose in waging war against small and troublesome countries and peoples, in the generalized pursuit of running the world for the world’s own good. In this effort, one war is pretty much like another, and every president, to be re-elected, needs one.

Visit William Pfaff’s Web site at www.williampfaff.com.

© 2009 Tribune Media Services Inc.


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By stcfarms, September 22, 2009 at 7:27 pm Link to this comment

You do not need a leader to follow, it dulls the senses.
It is possible to strike out on your own, and, contrary
to popular belief, it is profitable. The government cannot
operate without dividing the population and if everyone
would just drop all of their pre conceived notions and use
what brain that they have left they could destroy the powers
that be. It matters not what the others do, it matters what
you do. From what I see in your posts you are already there.

By Ouroborus, September 22 at 9:44 pm #

stcfarms, September 22 at 9:24 pm #

It’s really sad to wake up to the life time of lies
that one grew up believing. It’s liberating to finally
realize there is no one to follow; there are no leaders
worth following. Life is a matter of one’s own choices.
I haven’t quite figured out if it’s a good thing or a
bad thing so few are willing to break from the pack.
Maybe it’s neither and just is.

Report this
Ouroborus's avatar

By Ouroborus, September 22, 2009 at 6:44 pm Link to this comment

stcfarms, September 22 at 9:24 pm #

It’s really sad to wake up to the life time of lies
that one grew up believing. It’s liberating to finally
realize there is no one to follow; there are no leaders
worth following. Life is a matter of one’s own choices.
I haven’t quite figured out if it’s a good thing or a
bad thing so few are willing to break from the pack.
Maybe it’s neither and just is.

Report this

By stcfarms, September 22, 2009 at 6:24 pm Link to this comment

It is really sad that the two groups of people will never see the
truth about their own side of the criminal empire. As long as they
have the ‘other side’ to blame they can feel good about their own
ignorance. If they could see the error of their ways they could use
the Declaration of Independence to set themselves free.


By Ouroborus, September 22 at 7:46 pm #

stcfarms, September 22 at 12:18 pm #

Night-Gaunt, September 22 at 11:49 am #

Well, at least you both got it, which doesn’t surprise
me. As for the rest; never have and never will. Cheers.

Report this
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By Ouroborus, September 22, 2009 at 4:46 pm Link to this comment

stcfarms, September 22 at 12:18 pm #

Night-Gaunt, September 22 at 11:49 am #

Well, at least you both got it, which doesn’t surprise
me. As for the rest; never have and never will. Cheers.

Report this

By stcfarms, September 22, 2009 at 9:18 am Link to this comment

Perhaps the post was dumbed down because it was directed at the
morons that believe either democrats or republicans are honest. The
post was essentially correct although it should have included all
branches of government, all party leaders, corporate officers, clergy,
bankers and lawyers.

By MarthaA, September 22 at 10:47 am #

Ouroborus,

That’s a real astute answer, you must be some sort of a genius.

Report this
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By Night-Gaunt, September 22, 2009 at 8:49 am Link to this comment

Well Oroboros you concept is sound but the idea of elected leaders is for them to carry out the will of the people. We have seen that such a thing has not been followed through too often most especially here as of late, if ever. However direct democracy on a large scale is a mistake. It becomes mob rule if the majority decide whether other minorities are equal to them or not. On a local level entire towns and cantons of Switzerland do turn out for voting in some items on their agendas more so than here. But then they have a confederation something like what we had from 1776-1789.

I would submit that such democratic-socialism I don’t want because concerning personal lives they should have no voting rights against my personal rights. We can discuss the parameters if you calm down and use more words for deeper conceptions to be explored.

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By MarthaA, September 22, 2009 at 7:47 am Link to this comment

Ouroborus,

That’s a real astute answer, you must be some sort of a genius.

Report this

By Ajaz, September 22, 2009 at 7:40 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

OzarkMichael, you make interesting observation. But you don’t get it. We have so far spent $100 billion in Afghanistan with nothing to show for, and if we send more troops we will probably spend as much more.

I am saying, stop the war, don’t send more troops, spend may be only $25 billion and rebuild that whole miserable part of the world and pull it up from its 15th century thinking and appearance so they can be part of international community.

Would you rather spend another $100 billion and have another 1,000 soldiers dead or spend $25 billion on rebuilding?

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By Ouroborus, September 22, 2009 at 7:26 am Link to this comment

Bottom line; fuck the president; fuck all the
presidents; fuck all the leaders of the world!
The people can figure it out. Get out of the way and
let it happen.

Report this
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By A Khokar, September 22, 2009 at 5:46 am Link to this comment

In United States; all the presidents may be requiring a war that war scenarios gives them a boost to their stand and improves largely their image around the world but down at the other end—this US adventure brings destruction and havoc in lives of targeted peoples.

For last ten years on the flimsy pretext that US forces are out their to kill Osama bin Laden that allegedly he carried out attack on US twin towers. Some trillions of dollars have been spent to kill just one person that US exterminator forces have killed thousands of innocent peoples, women and children and left many more million maimed, crippled and their dwellings destroyed. Who so ever has come in their way————- they have destroyed, killed and exterminated every body but Osama bin Laden is that————-this super power with all her sophistication and technologies available at hand——-is unable to find trace of bin Laden or have even its any clue.


William Pfaff rightly says that after bringing a complete devastation in the lives of Afghani peoples, US is now all out to attack yet another country Pakistan to target and destroy its armed forces along with nuclear——————-that yet amother destruction of a country may bring US home——the lost dream word called victory?

Report this

By stcfarms, September 21, 2009 at 8:41 pm Link to this comment

Tao,

It is my intention to preserve the organic systems that existed before the
industrial agriculture system. The industrial agriculture system has killed vast
areas of the natural soil as well as the natural vegetation. If you turn over their
soil there is no life in it. I have a quarter acre of black virgin prairie buffalo shit
soil that is 16’ deep, if you turn over the soil it is teeming with life. It is exactly
the way that it was when the bison roamed free over it. I use the land to grow
medicinal herbs and wildflowers. I will also be growing heirloom vegetables so
that there is a reserve of the natural food supply.

  The human component is, as you say, more difficult. My girlfriend has been
with me for 40 years and is in tune with life. One man that will probably go is
Amish and understands as well. It is my hope that the others that have
expressed interest in a life on the sea are bright enough to learn not to foul
the nest. Perhaps the island will attract wild people from coast of central and
south America once the sea begins to rise. If my calculations are correct the
sea will begin a quick rise about 2012, our Mayan brothers called it very well.

By TAO Walker, September 21 at 10:03 pm #

Meantime, there is still such-a-thing as the Organic Form of Humanity, and
the Organic Function in-keeping with it.  Numbers, however large (or small)
don’t change that basic biological fact.  It becomes, therefore, a matter of
genuine moment how one ORGAN-izes the Human component of ones hoped-
for island ‘life-raft.’  Any mere random collection of “individuals,” however
well-intentioned and technically competent, will suffer the same fate sooner or
later as the hapless saps who get trapped in the sinking wreckage of their
titanic “global” delusions.

Best not to mistake the “furniture”(and even the “house”) for the Living Ground
they must rest on.

HokaHey!

Report this
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By OzarkMichael, September 21, 2009 at 7:14 pm Link to this comment

It is time this country was at peace and started rebuilding its infrastructure, an education system and created job opportunities for its young so they don’t follow religious extremists. A Marshall style reconstruction plan for Afghanistan and Western part of Pakistan could change the political landscape of that part of the world and yet, it would cost a great deal less than extending the war.

We have already sent a great deal of soldiers and money.

The only thing dumber than sending more soldiers is to send more money.

The Marshall Plan was for the nations which valued liberty and freedom. The Marshall Plan strengthened democratic nations. It was in our interests to do this.

Ajaz, you are asking for jizya payments to Afghanistan, whereby unbelievers pay money to Islamic states.

We “infidels” should not finance Islamic states, although I suspect Obama will end up adding Afghanistan to the U.S dole. So you will get your wish.

But it is dumb just the same.

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By TAO Walker, September 21, 2009 at 7:03 pm Link to this comment

It’s probably correct, as stcfarms says, that nearly every “individual” member of the six-and-a-half-billion-weak “....huddled masses” is CONvinced they cannot survive except by killing our Mother Earth, and doing it with the abstract and actual machinery they are equally certain will be their “salvation,” even as it is sucking from them what little is left of their pitiful half-lives.  So they are doomed in any case, and it only remains to be seen how much damage they do to Her natural Living Arrangement on their way into the black hole of oblivion.

Meantime, there is still such-a-thing as the Organic Form of Humanity, and the Organic Function in-keeping with it.  Numbers, however large (or small) don’t change that basic biological fact.  It becomes, therefore, a matter of genuine moment how one ORGAN-izes the Human component of ones hoped-for island ‘life-raft.’  Any mere random collection of “individuals,” however well-intentioned and technically competent, will suffer the same fate sooner or later as the hapless saps who get trapped in the sinking wreckage of their titanic “global” delusions.

Best not to mistake the “furniture”(and even the “house”) for the Living Ground they must rest on.

HokaHey!

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By OzarkMichael, September 21, 2009 at 6:23 pm Link to this comment

You know that the Nazis considered themselves the good guys don’t you? No one considers themselves evil, it is always the enemy that is “evil,” always.

A true word from Night Gaunt. A truer word was never said!

Yet I dont expect the Left to ever apply it to themselves. After all, there are evil fascists and evil dominionists all around, ready to strike. Or maybe they are striking now so there is no time to reflect on the true word.

And whatever it takes to stop them must be done, because the Right is the focus of evil, and there is no chance that there is evil in your remedies since you are good. There is no caution or reflection.

Thus the true word is forgotten, and thus evil is ever set loose upon the world.

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By Ajaz, September 21, 2009 at 6:18 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

PRESIDENT OBAMA, DO NOT SEND MORE TROOPS TO AFGHANISTAN
The Generals are saying that without more troops war effort in Afghanistan will be lost. What they cannot visualize is that with more troops, failure will come sooner.. Many military and independent observers admit that 80% of Afghanistan is already lost to Taliban and this, after eight years of military effort!

Those of us old enough to remember early days of Vietnam war, remember well that troop levels were around 50,000 at first, then 100,000, then 250,000 and still the Generals wanted more, saying that we can only defeat the enemy if we have more troops. President Johnson listened to them and increased troop levels to over 400,000. United Sates still lost the war and to this day, hasty retreat of U.S. troops from Vietnam haunts many a mind.

Afghanistan is no different, same scenario will be played out again if troops are increased, only more American young men and women will die, more Afghans will be bombed and the resultant hatred against the U.S. will last for another 20 to 30 years. It is time to learn a lesson from history. “Nations who do not learn from past mistakes are bound to repeat them”.

It is no fault of the Generals that they ask for more troops. This is what they know - have strength to fight the enemy. Generals are no politicians and it is not in their purview to think politically, that is the job of the politicians and the President.

It is still not too late to achieve a reconciliation in Afghanistan. Mullah Omar and other Taliban leaders have hinted more than once that they are willing to talk. U.S. has the means and the motive to accomplish a reconciliation. What is needed is an immediate ceasefire and a conference of all Afghan players, Northern Alliance, Hazaras, Pashtuns, Taliban and all others. U.S. and NATO should tell them that if you want foreign troops to leave, they have to reconcile and get along with each other.

Annul the Presidential elections and hold fresh elections after a peace conference so all parties can freely participate and if the people of Afghanistan wants an Islamic Government, let them have one, only do not isolate them like before, so they go to bed with terrorists. Bring the new Afghan Government into the fold of international community and let them realize their responsibilities to the international community.

Afghanistan and its people have suffered a great deal in the super power rivalry. It is time this country was at peace and started rebuilding its infrastructure, an education system and created job opportunities for its young so they don’t follow religious extremists. A Marshall style reconstruction plan for Afghanistan and Western part of Pakistan could change the political landscape of that part of the world and yet, it would cost a great deal less than extending the war.

President Obama, do not send more troops to Afghanistan. Start a reconciliation process in that country and bring all American troops home from Afghanistan within a year.

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By stcfarms, September 21, 2009 at 1:31 pm Link to this comment

Tao,

Nearly six and a half billion tame people now roam the planet at will, a
complete return to the simple life will kill nearly all of them. They are
separated from the land by generations, their ancient knowledge is lost. I
remember as a kid watching the civilized people hunt geese, they would spend
all day blasting away at anything that moved and only get a few dead geese.
When we went to hunt geese we would string together pieces of corn and leave
the corn strings on the beach. In the morning we would take one end of the
string and lead hundreds of live geese home. It seems that superior
technology does not lead to conceptual thought. I guess no one told the
civilized hunters that geese cannot puke up what they swallow.

I hear what you say about technology and I agree for the most part but I have
had the luck, or curse, to be raised equally in both worlds and can see through
two sets of eyes. There is a balance to be struck between the worlds as you
demonstrate by your use of the computer. A hundred years ago your wisdom
could only be passed along to a few people but now it can be seen by people
around the world at the speed of light. The dangers that you show are indeed
very real and a society that is not centered will most assuredly lose sight of the
primary use of the technology.

Perhaps I do walk a fine line between insanity and genius on my path to the
sea but I can see clearly what awaits the land dwellers. I have chosen to start a
small community on the sea because the great northern forests will no longer
protect the frozen peat from the sun and it will flood the earth with methane.
On the sea my terrarium island should be safe from most of the man made ills.
I will need a measure of technology to keep my tiny land from sinking and to
keep it functioning properly but I will always try to use your words to keep the
balance.

You have been educated in both worlds the same as I so you know as well as I
what is coming. The climate on the great plains will change dramatically, the
type of change will depend on how the noxious chemicals in the air combine.
There is a 5% chance that a mile of ice will cover the plains. There is a 15%
chance that you will inherit a land similar to what the Yaqui now call home
when the rains stop. In any event the changes will be huge. How will the
‘human beings’ deal with such changes? If you find that the changes are too
great you will always be welcome in my floating lodge.

Waub-Peepeegizaence Runninghawk,

“Erus ka da wanke day”

By TAO Walker, September 21 at 1:25 pm #

Recovering their Natural Organic Form will put our tame Sisters and Brothers
in The Way of everything they need to address the plethora of “problems”
CONfronting them here in these latter days.  Failing to do so will result in their
being excused from any further participation in The Song ‘n’ Dance of Life
Herownself as it is done here in these parts. 

No blame….Just fact.

Hokahey!

Report this

By TAO Walker, September 21, 2009 at 10:25 am Link to this comment

The ‘catch’ is that the kind of sensible, mature use of benevolent gadgetry advocated by Folktruther, stcfarms, and others here is not possible for random collections of “individuals,” which by their very nature can only ‘produce’ more and more and more of the same lethal CONcoction already ruining things for them today.  Since the basic Organic Form of Humanity is not the “individual” (or eve that radioactive idiocy, the “nuclear family”), but real Living Community (to put it as nearly as possible into English), and since “individual”-ity itself is in fact a diseased CONdition, any attempt to solve this dogs-breakfast of “modern” predicaments that doesn’t first get the domesticated peoples back into proper form, is doomed to failure.

The basic problem with “power” is that it’s an illusion (although a terribly addicting one), and those who would institutionalize it, however minimally, end-up acting out of a delusionary state fundamentally at-odds with the actual Living Arrangement of our Mother Earth….with CONsequences that are now become near-terminally dire for the deluded (whether “power”-full or “power”-less).  Again, us surviving free wild Human Beings not only do not (as the Book of Changes puts it) “....work through power,” we know by hard experience that to do so is….well, insane, not to put too fine a point on it.

Most “modern” people are CONvinced their “toys” and “tools” are essentially ‘value neutral,’ and that the effects of their employment (for good or ill) are determined completely by the intentions (and, of course, the self-declared “moral superiority”) of the users.  Folktruther cites a few from an almost endless list of “technologies” which wreak havoc regardless of the wishes of those who use them….because that is their purpose and function.  Others remind us that it is a common CONceit among the “civilized” to believe their own behavior is above reproach, regardless of its affects on others….yet another form if insanity.

Recovering their Natural Organic Form will put our tame Sisters and Brothers in The Way of everything they need to address the plethora of “problems” CONfronting them here in these latter days.  Failing to do so will result in their being excused from any further participation in The Song ‘n’ Dance of Life Herownself as it is done here in these parts. 

No blame….Just fact.

Hokahey!

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By Night-Gaunt, September 21, 2009 at 9:13 am Link to this comment

You know that the Nazis considered themselves the good guys don’t you? No one considers themselves evil, it is always the enemy that is “evil,” always. Only in children’s literature do the evil ones call themselves that. It is the simplistic notion of black hats an white hats. The Manichean dichotomy impressed upon the multifarious world we live in. And to use a hammer to make it fit as we have seen. Lubricated with a large quantity of blood.

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By stcfarms, September 21, 2009 at 6:28 am Link to this comment

As a good soldier in a rotten war long ago I feel
your pain. Soldiers do not start wars, civilians
do. Civilians elect the criminals that start the wars,
they buy the weapons used in the wars and they
blame the soldiers for the wars. Do what you must
to survive the war, keeping in mind that it is not the
soldiers that are the nazis but the taxpayers that fund
the wars.


By NZDoug, September 21 at 4:14 am #

Its hard to be a good soldier in a rotten war.
How come, this time, were the nazis???????
Beast of War.

Report this

By NZDoug, September 21, 2009 at 1:14 am Link to this comment

Its hard to be a good soldier in a rotten war.
How come, this time, were the nazis???????
Beast of War.

Report this

By stcfarms, September 20, 2009 at 11:30 pm Link to this comment

You cannot do both? If humans cannot learn to adapt then nature may select
against them.


“We have met the enemy and he is us” Pogo

By Anarcissie, September 21 at 12:35 am #


stcfarms:
‘The only way to stop the petroleum wars are to create clean energy cheaper
than the oil companies can produce crude. ...’

That might not have much effect.  It is necessary to change the general notion
that more is always better; otherwise, when energy becomes cheaper, more of
it will be used, until once again a level of shortage is reached, whereupon
energy as an excuse for war will reappear.

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Anarcissie's avatar

By Anarcissie, September 20, 2009 at 9:35 pm Link to this comment

stcfarms:
‘The only way to stop the petroleum wars are to create clean energy cheaper than the oil companies can produce crude. ...’

That might not have much effect.  It is necessary to change the general notion that more is always better; otherwise, when energy becomes cheaper, more of it will be used, until once again a level of shortage is reached, whereupon energy as an excuse for war will reappear.

Report this

By stcfarms, September 20, 2009 at 6:52 pm Link to this comment

The only way to stop the petroleum wars are to create clean energy cheaper
than the oil companies can produce crude. Obama had a chance to build
millions of windmills that could have produced enough energy to power the
country (even electric cars) but he thought that giving the money to the
bankers instead was a better idea.

By philbq, September 20 at 2:14 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

The imperial wars grind on. As in Iraq, the unspoken reason is petroleum. The
western oil companieas want to build a natural gas pipeline from
Turkeministan throughAfghanistan to India, while avoiding Russia and Iran. So
the U.S. intends to pacify Afghanistan. Another expensive and bloody war for
petroleum. Is this “change we can believe in”?

Report this

By stcfarms, September 19, 2009 at 11:18 pm Link to this comment

Sadly you are right, I suppose that shared guilt makes it seem like less of a
crime to them.

By Ouroborus, September 20 at 1:38 am #

stcfarms, September 20 at 1:27 am #

Wasn’t about blowback per se; more about a sense of
personal responsibility for how their tax dollars are
being used. It’s painfully obvious this isn’t much
considered.

Report this

By philbq, September 19, 2009 at 11:14 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The imperial wars grind on. As in Iraq, the unspoken reason is petroleum. The western oil companieas want to build a natural gas pipeline from Turkeministan throughAfghanistan to India, while avoiding Russia and Iran. So the U.S. intends to pacify Afghanistan. Another expensive and bloody war for petroleum. Is this “change we can believe in”?

Report this
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By Ouroborus, September 19, 2009 at 10:38 pm Link to this comment

stcfarms, September 20 at 1:27 am #

My comment; Yes, it always has and always will come
back to us. I wonder if and when it will in fact come
back to us?...
Wasn’t about blowback per se; more about a sense of
personal responsibility for how their tax dollars are
being used. It’s painfully obvious this isn’t much
considered.

Report this

By stcfarms, September 19, 2009 at 10:27 pm Link to this comment

Perhaps a change of attitude on the part of the taxpayer would prevent it from
coming back on the taxpayer. Stop feeding the beast and it will die. Teach the
world that wealth is food, water and energy not the fiat dollars of
governments. Teach the people conceptual thought and let them each do what
they will, you might be pleased with the results. In short, you must be a
creature of the world rather than a slave to the corporations. No one gave
them the right to subjugate everyone else.

By Ouroborus, September 20 at 12:44 am #

stcfarms, September 20 at 12:20 am #
Of course the taxpayers that fund the wars are not
responsible for the
slaughter of innocents abroad, it can all be traced
back to congress and the
president.
================================================
==
Yes, it always has and always will come back to us. I
wonder if and when it will in fact come back to us?
================================================
==

Report this

By stcfarms, September 19, 2009 at 9:44 pm Link to this comment

I sometimes forget that we are dealing with mere humans, I should have said
that in a logical world technology need not be barbarous. Since the cleaners
under the kitchen sink can be used to make phosgene it is a good thing that
the government keeps the sheep too stupid to even understand a third grade
science book.

By Folktruther, September 19 at 11:36 pm #

Stc farms, TAO-  Technology need not be barbarous?  What would be a non-
barbarious use for nerve gas.  Or weaponized antrax germs.  Or torture
implements.  The standard mainstream cliche is that scientific technology is
not good or bad in itself but in how it is used.

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By Ouroborus, September 19, 2009 at 9:44 pm Link to this comment

stcfarms, September 20 at 12:20 am #
Of course the taxpayers that fund the wars are not
responsible for the
slaughter of innocents abroad, it can all be traced
back to congress and the
president.
==================================================
Yes, it always has and always will come back to us. I
wonder if and when it will in fact come back to us?
==================================================
Folktruther, September 19 at 11:36 pm #
Mustard gas dates back to WWI and biological warfare
in the U.S. goes back to the mid-late 1800’s with the
smallpox infested blankets given to the genuine
Americans. But more to your point; why do you feature
the negative technology with out including the good
stuff; such as how I’m communicating with you right
now?

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By stcfarms, September 19, 2009 at 9:20 pm Link to this comment

Of course the taxpayers that fund the wars are not responsible for the
slaughter of innocents abroad, it can all be traced back to congress and the
president. I guess that the wife that hires the hit man to get rid of the hubby
should expect the same protection under the law. Murder by proxy is so
clean…

By Night-Gaunt, September 19 at 11:33 pm #

Yes I noticed that each president had to do something where people in other
lands were killed so that the blood sacrifice can stain their hands as a kind of
blood annointing.

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By Folktruther, September 19, 2009 at 8:36 pm Link to this comment

Stc farms, TAO-  Technology need not be barbarous?  What would be a non-barbarious use for nerve gas.  Or weaponized antrax germs.  Or torture implements.  The standard mainstream cliche is that scientific technology is not good or bad in itself but in how it is used.

This fails to cosider the implications that the Western technological tradition was historically began with war technology.  and just as the innovative war technology of the steppe people in attacking agrarians was the horse, the major technology in the West was the warship.  but other weapons as well. The first interchangable parts were the Colt revolver.  As Huntington said, the West forgets that it developed its dominance with military weapons, but the rest of the world remembers.

TAO, you are quite right about power corrupting.  But it is not beyond the mind of man to develop a power system that serves the people rather than power.  To do so it is necessary to think in a clear and simple way about people and power.

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By Night-Gaunt, September 19, 2009 at 8:33 pm Link to this comment

Yes I noticed that each president had to do something where people in other lands were killed so that the blood sacrifice can stain their hands as a kind of blood annointing. Whether consciously or not it happens. When, and if we get one that doesn’t do it we will know we are on a different road than the one we have been taking for decades. Obama is not different as his actions tell us.

The problem is MarthaA is that he isn’t cleaning it up he is maintaining it or increasing it like Afghanistan where it is becoming his war now. Just doing the business of the cabal. You, know the ones who are behind all this, the richest and most foul of them who disdain our republic and want free and unfettered commerce of the corporation backed by the military and served by their church of superior men? “Doing God’s work spreading democracy.”

Nap those two heads (War & Greed) are connected to the body (power) and it has a nasty bite. It is in our gov’t and corporation and church and entertainment and many other places. They want control of it all. They are playing for keeps!

We can still live well and at a higher technological level that say 1950, but we need to retool our entire civilization and how we look and think about things. If I could send a gestault pulse and imprint it in every person on the planet it would go a long way to rectifying so many centuries of short sighted blunder that we are saddled with now. Too bad we must muddle along with what we’ve got in the mean time. Remember no deus ex machina will save us it must be homo ex machina otherwise known as us, to save our selves or else it could get very unpleasant for the forseeable future.

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By OzarkMichael, September 19, 2009 at 8:10 pm Link to this comment

MarthaA said: Giving up is easy, but my advise is to never give up, because anything that is worth having is worth standing for,

Hmm ‘anything that is worth having is worth standing up for’. Thats a strange thing to say.

Thats basically MarthaAs way of saying she wants things and so she takes them. And the things that she doesnt want, like dissent, she gets rid of. When her objective 70% majority takes power she will get rid of a lot of us. By shooting us till we no longer wiggle as Martha says.

MarthaA, why dont you explain how nice and legal the shooting will be? I dont want you to look like a common criminal or anything.

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By stcfarms, September 19, 2009 at 7:21 pm Link to this comment

I stand corrected.

By Anarcissie, September 19 at 8:58 pm #

stcfarms:
’... I can tell that no one joined because there were no questions.’

They may have other sources of information.  There are a lot of people living
partly or entirely off the grid these days.

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By Anarcissie, September 19, 2009 at 5:58 pm Link to this comment

stcfarms:
’... I can tell that no one joined because there were no questions.’

They may have other sources of information.  There are a lot of people living partly or entirely off the grid these days.

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By Anarcissie, September 19, 2009 at 5:37 pm Link to this comment

Folktruther:
‘Anarcissie, have you looked into the co-ops being used to peddle medical care.  Could they be transformed to actually serve the people against power?’

I haven’t seen anything specific about the proposed co-ops.  I suspect that the proposal was advanced merely to confuse and divide the anti-corporate constituency.  However, if they were set up, it might be possible for the people to hijack them away from the corps(e) and the government.

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By stcfarms, September 19, 2009 at 4:21 pm Link to this comment

Tao,

Most of the technology that I will use has been around for millennia although I
will produce electricity to run computers, pumps and tools. My slice of
“civilization” will only be as large as the need. Growing up in two worlds has
shown me that some technology is useful, much like your use of computers.

Erus ka da wanke day

By TAO Walker, September 19 at 6:01 pm #

stcfarms is right, of course, that “tecnology” in and of itself is just furniture…
.though he seems not to’ve accounted for how much of its ‘function’ is
dictated by its ‘form.’  The complicated apparatus setting-up and operating
the regime of “civilization” is subject absolutely to the same self-enforcing
Natural Law. 

HokaHey!

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By TAO Walker, September 19, 2009 at 3:01 pm Link to this comment

stcfarms is right, of course, that “tecnology” in and of itself is just furniture….though he seems not to’ve accounted for how much of its ‘function’ is dictated by its ‘form.’  The complicated apparatus setting-up and operating the regime of “civilization” is subject absolutely to the same self-enforcing Natural Law. 

Folktruther, in his fixation on “power” relations, also tends to overlook the well-documented, inevitably corrupting effects of “power” on all those who become enmeshed in its toils.  Nowhere here will anybody find this Old Indian stumping for “primitivism,” either, whatever that is.  The Natural Organic Form of Humanity within the Living Arrangement of our Mother Earth is determined by our Organic Function therein, and is not altered or CONtrived by such make-believe one-dimensional CONceits as “progress”....and all the ideological/institutional/electro-mechanical systems supposed to guarantee it.

From here in Indian Country it is easy to see that every single “problem” facing homo domesticus here in these latter days is a symptom of that self-same domestication….no matter how relatively sophisticated or “advanced” might be the machinery accomplishing it.  Most of its “hardware” will outlast the regime that produced it, anyway.  We’ll all be living with the thing’s destructive CONsequences for a long time….at-least those of us who abide-in and embody the native qualities necessary for Human Beings to go on living here at all.

HokaHey!

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By stcfarms, September 19, 2009 at 12:59 pm Link to this comment

Technology need not be barbarous, it is only how it is used that makes it so.
You are right that primitivism is not the answer, there are far to many people
to make it work. The trick is to find a middle ground that uses selected
technology that does not harm the environment. I believe that I have found
that balance and will be testing my theories on my island in a year or so.

Ourborus, you are far more advanced than you might think.

By Folktruther, September 19 at 3:39 pm #

That’s great, Ourborus; unlearning is the most difficult step to wisdom.  TAO’s
criticism of the technological barbarism that we are taught to call Civlization is
excellent.  But most of us feel primitivism is not the answwer.

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By Folktruther, September 19, 2009 at 12:39 pm Link to this comment

That’s great, Ourborus; unlearning is the most difficult step to wisdom.  TAO’s criticism of the technological barbarism that we are taught to call Civlization is excellent.  But most of us feel primitivism is not the answwer.

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By Blagn, September 18, 2009 at 10:51 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Why are we in Afghanistan?  Well, what are most of the troops guarding…  HEROIN!!  Yes, that’s right that country is the world’s #1 supplier of 90% of all the heroin that exists.  And our soldiers are the ones guarding the fields.  Why?  So that the crazy religious Taliban leaders cannot burn down the crops.  You see religious fundamentalists have traditionally been against the use of such narcotics.  They see how the opium hurts the people by taking up the fields which should be growing the country’s food supply.

But you have to ask yourself.  Why would we want to protect the world’s heroine supply?  I mean, where’s the profit motive in heroin, right?  LOL!  He who guards the supply, becomes the supplier.  And since the war in Afghanistan, the supply of heroin has sky-rocketed! 

Then after the American users become addicted and get busted, they are thrown in a prison industry which milks taxpayer money from you and me and puts it directly into the hands of the people who supplied the heroin in the first place… the US Government.  I mean why keep it illegal in the first place?  This is a game of monopoly.

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By Ouroborus, September 18, 2009 at 10:11 pm Link to this comment

Folktruther, September 18 at 12:44 pm #

To be honest, I don’t know how to answer your post. I
just read and answered a post by Tao Walker. He is a
very smart guy and what he said in his post kind of got
to me. I’m feeling like I don’t know very much any
more.

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By Folktruther, September 18, 2009 at 9:44 am Link to this comment

Ouroburas- you have to distinguish between the American power system and the power structure that rules it and the vast majority of the American people, corrupted as we are by American power.

Listen to Martha.  TD truthers have taught Martha how to use bold face, which reminds me of the danger of Terrroists gaining the use of nuclear weapons.  But what she says is quite true.  American is our home and we have to fight for it.

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By doublestandards/glasshouses, September 18, 2009 at 7:19 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The msm tends to glorify the violence of war rather
than present it as something beneath human dignity. 
Remember the “shock and awe” phase of the invasion of
Irag?  http://www.miller-mccune.com/news/notion-of-
violence-and-war-1469

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By oldog, September 18, 2009 at 2:29 am Link to this comment

Alas, for all his talk of change, President Obama seems
to be willing to leave the old guard in place: the
corrupt senators, the arrogant bankers, the greedy
insurance exec’s and the invasion/occupation tacticians
who brought us to where we are today.

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By stcfarms, September 17, 2009 at 11:39 pm Link to this comment

The ‘underground economy’ has it’s criminals just like the national economy. I
do not accept cash after I reach a preset limit, well under the minimum taxable
income. I trade what I have or make for what I need. I do not violate their
draconian tax laws because I am using barter. I only earn enough cash to pay
the tribute for owning a house and vehicles so I can remain legal. I can tell that
no one joined because there were no questions.

Perhaps the most profound example of the underground economy is a young
black girl I picked up hitch hiking. She was a student in college and sleeping
in a storage garage. I hired her to help me repair and sell stuff that we pulled
out of dumpsters. After three weeks she had made enough money to buy a
pickup truck and go into competition with me at the swap meet.


By Ray Duray, September 18 at 2:01 am #

Hi stcfarms,

You wrote: “I have been telling you about the underground economy for
months yet not one of you has joined.”

How can you tell? To be pedestrian about the matter, doesn’t ‘underground’
mean you as an outsider aren’t to be informed?

Perhaps the most profound example of underground economies is being
revealed veil by veil in the continuing UBS vs. IRS contretemps.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a2hfM.k_l3ow

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By stcfarms, September 17, 2009 at 11:03 pm Link to this comment

You believe that this is a democracy? It is an oligarchy, calling itself a federal
republic that lets you think that it is a democracy. A democracy is an
unworkable failure as a form of government and as bad as what we have now.

By MarthaA, September 18 at 12:52 am #

Ouroborus,

Ouroborus said:“I’ve only given up on America”

MarthaA’s answer: Giving up is easy, but my advise is to never give up,
because anything that is worth having is worth standing for, America is my
home, the only home I have ever known and the only home I ever want to
know and I think America is worth fighting for.  You may have another country
you like just as well, but I don’t.  I think it is a travesty to lose America to an
autocracy and I think if everyone of the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION
will get a backbone and stand up for democracy we will not lose democracy. 
Democracy is not something a country can keep without protectors standing
watch.
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By Ray Duray, September 17, 2009 at 11:01 pm Link to this comment

Hi stcfarms,

You wrote: “I have been telling you about the underground economy for months yet not one of you has joined.”

How can you tell? To be pedestrian about the matter, doesn’t ‘underground’ mean you as an outsider aren’t to be informed?

Perhaps the most profound example of underground economies is being revealed veil by veil in the continuing UBS vs. IRS contretemps.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a2hfM.k_l3ow

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By Nap, September 17, 2009 at 9:54 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The sad truth everyone knows about the two headed dog of war(R) and greed(D) is that In the greatest democratic experiment the presidents and representatives need war to satisfy the bloodlust of their constituents. Nothing more and nothing less.

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By MarthaA, September 17, 2009 at 9:52 pm Link to this comment

Ouroborus,

Ouroborus said:“I’ve only given up on America”

MarthaA’s answer: Giving up is easy, but my advise is to never give up, because anything that is worth having is worth standing for, America is my home, the only home I have ever known and the only home I ever want to know and I think America is worth fighting for.  You may have another country you like just as well, but I don’t.  I think it is a travesty to lose America to an autocracy and I think if everyone of the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION will get a backbone and stand up for democracy we will not lose democracy.  Democracy is not something a country can keep without protectors standing watch.

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By Ouroborus, September 17, 2009 at 8:59 pm Link to this comment

Folktruther, September 17 at 12:35 pm #
Ourobursus, and Pfaff, are quite right.
But Ouroborus, there is no reason to give up.
===============================================
My name mentioned ahead of and in the same sentence
with Pfaff, and being considered correct, is most
kind. I’m just a hack with an opinion.

As to giving up; I’ve only given up on America, not
life. This is a big world and the U.S., contrary to
popular belief, is not the center of the universe.
Things change and I keep my mind and eyes open.

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By godistwaddle, September 17, 2009 at 12:51 pm Link to this comment

We’ve occupied this poor country (after an illegal invasion) for eight years.  People don’t like being occupied, and if we send more troops, I’m sure the patriotic Afghan freedom fighters will appreciate the increased number of targets.

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By MarthaA, September 17, 2009 at 12:38 pm Link to this comment

Cleaning up the mess of the Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Republican Wars of Convenience and their aftermath is equivalent of cleaning up the collective diarrhea of the Right-Wingers Bush administration that took them eight years to create; it is a dirty, messy, stinky and thankless job.

President Barack Obama is busy cleaning up the crap of the Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST W. Bush administration’s political diarrhea and for those who spewed the diarrhea and created the mess that President Obama is left with to clean up to be talking about failure of the Obama administration is nothing more than saying that he is failing to clean up the crap that he inherited fast enough. 

When President Obama has cleaned up the mess that he inherited, President Obama will then have time, perhaps, to enact his own agenda.  Until that time comes, the Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Republican sophist propagandists that created the mess of starting two unnecessary wars, bankrupting the United States  and destroying the U.S. Economy  need to shut up and let President Obama do what he was hired to do, because they have already had their time; and all they accomplished was rooting at the Right-Wing Trough of Greed, creating two unnecessary wars, bankrupting the United States and destroying the U.S. Economy, and then relying upon “Socialized Responsibility for Privatized Benefit” to bail them and their Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST REPUBLICAN administration and Free Market Cronies out of a mess than was too big to let fail.  We have heard enough from Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST REPUBLICAN irresponsible ideologues; they need to shut up, keep quiet and if they can’t do anything constructive  to help, get out of the way, where the grown ups can clean up their mess.

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By Jean Gerard, September 17, 2009 at 11:54 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Re: Anarcissie, “war is the HEALTH of the state” and that’s a huge part of the problem.  You try cutting down the Pentagon budget, putting the Army, Navy and Air Force out of business, closing foreign bases, pulling the defense “contractors” out of Iraq, Afghanistan and Somalia and cutting the bonuses of the CEOs of Raytheon, Lockheed and a thousand other military providers and see what happens.  Especially in an economic downturn. 
    Then there’s the Constitution to be restored, and honest informational reporting needed from all the powerful media who haven’t been independent for years. And health care reform is desperately needed, but that’s a sure-fire mare’s nest. And what to do about Guantanamo and the soul of our country corrupted by torture.
    The only possible way is slowly, bit by bit, meantime engaging and involving as much of the public as humanly possible in supporting you—even the ones who are undermining you every step of the way instead of asking: “What can we do to help?”   
    Then there’s the environment which needs serious attention, but half of your public wants to think that’s a myth. Then there’s prejudice and religious craziness and backlash from the opposition.
    Come on, people.  Get real!

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By glider, September 17, 2009 at 11:52 am Link to this comment

Pfaff,
“My own feeling is that the situation is worse. I think the American government now has become institutionally a war government, which finds its purpose in waging war against small and troublesome countries and peoples, in the generalized pursuit of running the world for the world’s own good”

I agree about us living in a state of institutionalized war.  I don’t agree it is done for anyone’s good abroad (Pfaff is of course being facetious).  These wars are now being corporatized even more heavily now.  Its about money and justifying the budget and existence of the MIC.  All institutions naturally want to grow themselves.  We need a separation between corporation and state,  at least like the psuedo separation between church and state.

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By Folktruther, September 17, 2009 at 11:28 am Link to this comment

Anarcissie, have you looked into the co-ops being used to peddle medical care.  Could they be transformed to actually serve the people against power?

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By Mary Ann McNeely, September 17, 2009 at 10:29 am Link to this comment

Obama has already booked the aircraft carrier USS Lee Harvey Oswald three weeks before the election of 2012 for a dramatic jet landing, complete with flight suit, 9mm sidearm and enormous codpiece.  Obama is smart enough not to reuse the “MISSION ACCOMPLISHED” sign.  His sign will say “VICTORY IN AFGHANISTAN”.  Rahm Emanuel has convinced Obama that this bit of chest thumping patriotic bravado will be just enough to assure his reelection.

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By Folktruther, September 17, 2009 at 9:35 am Link to this comment

Ourobursus, and Pfaff, are quite right.  The US needs a low intensity war to divert attention from the predatory attack that the plutocracy is making on the Ameican people.  However the US has never engaged before in as pointless a war as Afpak, not even the Vietnam war.  I also had the feeling that Obama was a public relations personage and had no strategic-military sense.

But Ourburus, there is no reason to give up.  Obama today gutted the first strike missles against Russia to be put in Poland and Chezcko, an actual displayof common sense in US foreign policy.  Almost unprecident.  As peace pressure on Obama increases, he hs to gradually disingage from the most dangerous military committments.  Conceivably Japanese pressure will cause withdrawal from Chinese shores as well, as the US loses power all over the world. 

You have to look at the big picuture as the US retreat is disguised by senseless posturing and homicidal displays.

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By MarthaA, September 17, 2009 at 9:05 am Link to this comment

That would be a really good trick, Pfaff, but you’re not that great of a trickster; it won’t work.  The War in Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan belongs to the Bush administration, as they were all originated by the Bush administration.  Some how President Obama will figure out a dignified withdrawal from Bush’s Wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan, as all of these countries were EXTREMELY assaulted by the Bush administration way before President Obama took office.  No matter how you slice it these wars belong to Bush.  Just because President Obama hasn’t been immediately able to withdraw, doesn’t mean these are the Obama administrations wars and just because the Republicans want to now make it appear they no longer own the Afghanistan assault and occupation; Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan are ALL Bush administration wars of assault and occupation left over for the Obama administration.

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By stcfarms, September 17, 2009 at 8:58 am Link to this comment

I hate to go out on my island without trying to teach them the truth but you
are right, they have not heard Tao Walker, a truly wise man. Like Tao I am
uncivilized and do not really understand their fear.

By Ouroborus, September 17 at 10:21 am #

Well, you got part of it right; fear. I read
somewhere that fear is a thief; and one shouldn’t
allow it steal from oneself. I left the U.S. years
ago because I could see where it was headed. Just
like the smart people who left Germany prior to WWII.
I was an activist during the Viet Nam war; but when I
saw the apathy and jingoistic bullshit leading up to
the March 2003 attack on Iraq I got the hell out.
Never regretted it for one minute. Back to your
entreaty for the people to join you; forget it. Tao
Walker has been teaching here for years and rarely
even gets a response; so what hope do you have? I for
one appreciate what you’re trying to do, but like
Tao, it’s to no avail. When a populace is living in
fear and denial they are paralyzed and incapable of
meaningful action. Well into my mid 60’s, reality is
finally gaining a hold on my perceptions of the world
we live in; beautiful it is still; and stupid human
tricks are finally bothering me less and less. I’m
resigned to help those who ask and let the rest go to
their just rewards. Peace, in a world at war; there,
but not apparent.

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By Ouroborus, September 17, 2009 at 7:21 am Link to this comment

stcfarms, September 17 at 9:45 am #

I have been telling you about the underground economy
for months yet not one of you has joined. Do you fear
retribution? Do you fear that you will starve without
a
government approved corporate job?
==================================================
Well, you got part of it right; fear. I read
somewhere that fear is a thief; and one shouldn’t
allow it steal from oneself. I left the U.S. years
ago because I could see where it was headed. Just
like the smart people who left Germany prior to WWII.
I was an activist during the Viet Nam war; but when I
saw the apathy and jingoistic bullshit leading up to
the March 2003 attack on Iraq I got the hell out.
Never regretted it for one minute. Back to your
entreaty for the people to join you; forget it. Tao
Walker has been teaching here for years and rarely
even gets a response; so what hope do you have? I for
one appreciate what you’re trying to do, but like
Tao, it’s to no avail. When a populace is living in
fear and denial they are paralyzed and incapable of
meaningful action. Well into my mid 60’s, reality is
finally gaining a hold on my perceptions of the world
we live in; beautiful it is still; and stupid human
tricks are finally bothering me less and less. I’m
resigned to help those who ask and let the rest go to
their just rewards. Peace, in a world at war; there,
but not apparent.

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By Leefeller, September 17, 2009 at 7:03 am Link to this comment

After 8 years of Bush and Chaney, saying Obama is the same seems far fetched, for one thing Congress is now able to shove through those alleged progressive idealism’s, which were impossible before, now without the Bush and the Repulicans there, the foilers of change and hope, now the worm has turned.

So one only need patience, be calm, count the hairs on ones head, for the grand resarectum is coming soon near you, seems most everyone needs to turn both cheeks,  bend over and spread them, guess one can leave out the plutocracy?

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By LemuelG, September 17, 2009 at 6:54 am Link to this comment

What a bizarre conclusion…

The US and NATO are there precisely because it is a small, poor and powerless nation, they are there because there is nothing to be done there - here’s the recipe:

A: Afghanistan, poor, friendless - incapable of resisting invasion or political reforms.

B: A large army with extremely heavy firepower is assembled with nothing better to do than endure a few skirmishes with local tribesman (good training for green troops and fresh weapons-systems).

C: And look! It just happens that this crap-hole in which you seem to be stuck in indefinately happens to be located at the perfect strategic confluence by which to threaten almost all of your potential future-enemies… yay!

What a happy coincidence it is that there all those soldiers and guns ready at a moments notice to strike instantly at China and/or Russia… just in case you see, what’s the point of building all those weapons if you ain’t prepared to use ‘em?

Seriously, once the penny drops and those armies gotta go elsewhere it’ll be: “Tali-who?”, like, all over again - remember Iraq? And how in 2003 it was like: “Afghani-where?”. Remember… for God’s sake.

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By whistler, September 17, 2009 at 6:48 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

gees you americans are a pathetic lot.  what you all need is a good kick up the ass.  stop fuckin around and stand up for yourselves.  what are you waiting for father xmas to give you what you want. its not gonna happen. you all have the answers but the truth is none of you have any internal fortitude, cos if you did youd be taking control of your destiny.

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By stcfarms, September 17, 2009 at 6:45 am Link to this comment

What they do, they do in your name on your dollar. The regime runs on fiat
money, if you want to stop war, quit feeding the regime. I have been telling
you about the underground economy for months yet not one of you has
joined. Do you fear retribution? Do you fear that you will starve without a
government approved corporate job? The regime would have you believe that
crap but it is not true, the underground economy is perfectly legal and
booming. Becoming self sufficient is easy once you get out of the city and it
means that you do not have to feed the regime. Do not borrow money, it is the
method that the criminals use to enslave you.

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By montanawildhack, September 17, 2009 at 5:02 am Link to this comment

The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are being fought for greater Israel.  Period!!!!!!!!!!!!  And now our Hebrew “friends” want a war with Iran…  Sadly, the US Congress and US media which are Controlled by Israel (not Influenced!! Controlled!) will deliver the war on a silver platter!! Israel is our only friend in the Middle East we are told.. True… But, before Israel we had NO enemies in the middle east.

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By thebeerdoctor, September 17, 2009 at 4:29 am Link to this comment

I was going to say the use of “fares” instead of fairs, in the previous post was a misspelling, but then again considering how much the candidates resemble money-sucking vacuum cleaners, perhaps not. LostHills comment about going from a cowboy to a game boy seems rather accurate.

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By Ouroborus, September 17, 2009 at 3:56 am Link to this comment

William Pfaff;
My own feeling is that the situation is worse. I
think the American government now has become
institutionally a war government, which finds its
purpose in waging war against small and troublesome
countries and peoples, in the generalized pursuit of
running the world for the world’s own good. In this
effort, one war is pretty much like another, and
every president, to be re-elected, needs one.
==================================================
This now appears to be true.
Well, have heart; if Obama loses support for the war
in Afghanistan there is always Somalia. We’re keeping
a foot in that one so we can hot-it-up to keep the
war machinery well oiled and practiced.
“War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is
strength.” (George Orwell, 1984)
Get used to it, perpetual war is here.

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By bogi666, September 17, 2009 at 3:20 am Link to this comment

The need for the USG to take on the troubles of other nations is institutionalized CO-DEPENDENCY, a mental disorder which is legitimized because it is institutionalization in the government as well as other insitutions in the USA, the churches and businesses. It is characterized by the lack of self identity, low self worth. which results in incorporating the identity of others into one’s own psyche. The pretend christian churches seek to ingrain their followers with the identity of most the pastors pretending to be christ, the anti-Christs. They create christ in their own image, the image of man, take on the persona of their imagined christ encouraging their follows to adopt the identity they are being provided with, by the pastor, as their own identity because their own identity is sinful thereby worthless. They then cajole their congregations of fools by demeaning them and then beg those demeaned for money and the demeaned fools give them money. Business uses C0-DEPENDENCY THROUGH ADVERTISING to forge Americans into NARCISSISTIC-CONSUMERIST-GLUTTONS[Jerry Falwell who died of gluttony]by telling Americans that they and their possessions are obsolete, they are ugly and so on. This is to compel Americans to go out and shop. Americans are the only society in the history of the known universe that derive a sense of security by shopping. Can’t get much more CO-DEPENDENT THAN THAT

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By thebeerdoctor, September 17, 2009 at 2:58 am Link to this comment

It is difficult to fathom the size of an ego who decides it is important enough that it participates in the costly and wasteful pageant called a presidential election. During those campaigns that seem endless, the candidates feign empathy for the little people, by having a beer, attending county and state fares, and glad handing folks whenever possible. But after all the overheated rhetoric of the campaign has cooled, the voter wakes up to realize what unfeeling monsters these so-called leaders actually are. But it is alright, because they are all war presidents. Its a thankless task, they always say, but somebody has to do it. President Barry continues the tradition.

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By MrSanfran, September 17, 2009 at 2:54 am Link to this comment

Did everybody forget that Union Oil pipe line that was
shoved down the afghani people’s throat?  Something about carpet bombing with dollars or bombs.  It appears Obama’s campaign was carefully crafted.  Pull out of Iraq but yea we have this little problem in Afghanistan.
Us progressives kinda of overlooked it and felt he would be reasonable about it.  In the end, it looks like a shift of troops to keep the same military presence in the area.  Notice Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, and oh yea
Hugo Chavez in Venezuela, all revolve around oil.

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By Leefeller, September 17, 2009 at 1:47 am Link to this comment

Good article and much needed, only if this was promoted by the talking heads of MSM.

Obama the Hawk was most disappointing to me during the campaign. Some of his other promenades seemed worthy so I voted for him.  It seems Obama has back peddled on most of his campaign promises, so why not Pakistan? In my case, I would be slightly more pleased then I am right now of his appeasement record.

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By LostHills, September 16, 2009 at 11:59 pm Link to this comment

Obama was not qualified to run for president, had no record for the voters to judge him by, no leadership experience, and never had a vision for America that wouldn’t fit on a bumper sticker. His presidency is all about his outsized ego/inferiority psychological trip that he’s on, his drive to succeed and acheive, and his ability to con people. He’s great at wowing the crowds with platitudes and he’s great at raising money. But he doesn’t have a clue about running this country. The war has been part of his ego trip from the beginning.

Bush was a cowboy, and Obama is a gameboy. In both cases the lives of real people mean nothing, because other people are not real to them. Only their ego gratification matters, and war is the biggest turn on they can find. The style may have changed, but our nation is still in the clutches of the same kind of personality. The war, to Obama, is a game that he needs to prove he can “win,” and if it costs the life your son or daughter that’s okay, because their life was sacrificed for a great and noble cause—the president’s ego….

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By SaveTheTenth, September 16, 2009 at 11:09 pm Link to this comment

Excellent article Mr. Pfaff! Thanks!

Here’s where our health care dollars (and every other spare dollar) have gone:

http://costofwar.com/

Total Cost of Wars Since 2001
910,268,751,840   can anyone really imagine a trillion?

Cost of War in Afghanistan
226,989,323,661

Oh and just for the heck of it, here’s a blast from the past, largely ignored

http://newamericancentury.org/balkans.htm

Look at the word in the center, beginning with K. Our foreign policy has been stolen from us, the citizens, long before Bush1, Clinton or Reagan.

Our treasury, looted. Our Civil Rights, looted. Our Manufacturing, sold out. Bleak.

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