stephanieg, May 14 at 6:29 pm,

Because you have been brainwashed into thinking you know nothing, and others know it all.

You have a paranoid frame of EXTREME Right-Wing sophism, OzarkMichael, and obviously you want to make others, as your enemy, responsible for your own despicable antisocial and sociopathic behavior; you, however, are responsible for your own behavior’s cause and effect—as they say, if you don’t want to do the time, “don’t do the crime”.

Tao said of MarthaA: She evidently cannot see that it doesn’t matter who takes-over the levers of political and economic “power.”  The apparatus itself always corrupts its operators.

But MarthaA can hardly wait to be corrupted! She has a plan already. Yet she is shy and wont tell us about it, except she mentions my FAIR TRIAL, and the impending [i/]guilty verdict…based upon legislative law and order

Dont be shy MarthaA. What future law and order do you want so badly? exactly what would I be guilty of?

She wont say. But we know the penalty for it is death, that much she promised me when she got angry. Death for dissenters.

But now she clams up.

Shyness… does not become a revolutionary.

If MarthaA in internet anonymity cant even bring herself to spell it out, how can anyone hope that she will advance the red banner of revolution in real life?

Lenin would weep! Mao would despair!

They would not accomplish anything if they had to rely on ‘revolutionaries’ like MarthaA, who dances around with little hints and little lies and little threats… but is afraid to speak a true word about the dictatorship of the proletariat and the red terror.

By Folktruther, September 20 at 10:56 pm #

From the administratons perspective with 10% unemployment at home, the best place for a soldier (armed 20 somethings) is on the other side of the world where they can’t take part in any revolution at home. 

We are in the beginning of a police state to deal with that.

When the only place you can go to get a job is the military, we as a nation need to reexamine our long range objectives.

I doubt that anyone outside of a few far right extremists in our govt are worried at all about an uprising because we withdrew from Afghanistan. Rather they worry , hopefully, about said uprising UNLESS we withdraw.

Patrick, from 69 on under Nixon, the US was withdrawing troops from Vietnam. LESS young were being drafted than previously. but when a power system loses a war, demonstrations and uprisings occur, as in 1905 in russia after its defeat by Japan in the far East.  And in the Soviet Union after Afghanistan.

Which is a major rreason why Obama doesn’t want to withdraw from Afghanisstan.

OzarkMichael,

You’re still wiggling, OzarkMichael,  why’s that?  Oh yeah, you haven’t yet had your FAIR TRIAL, so you have a right to wiggle until a guilty verdict has been determined based upon legislative law and order.

“Let Us Not Become the Evil We Deplore”

While approximately 3/4 of the American public has *not* become the evil we deplore, 3/4 of our elected officials *are* the evil we deplore.

ardee, September 20 at 6:25 am #

Very nice summation and clarification; the
significance of the draft, regarding the ending of
the Viet Nam war, cannot be under estimated.

And I echo your comment; “Contrast the incessant
protests, demonstrations and general angst about the
war in Viet Nam with our current , and far too quiet
acquiescence about Afghanistan.”

This alone, is one of the most disturbing changes
I’ve seen in the fabric of “our” society. A fabric, I
might add, that appears to be shredded.

Folktruther, September 19 at 7:31 pm #

Ouroburus- the draft DID NOT end the Vietnam war, the viet cong did.  A guerilla movement tht does not lose, wins, and the Vietmanese outlasted the American ruling class.  As is occurring in Iraq and the Afpak war.

I would agree that a guerrilla movement cannot be defeated by conventional military action, especially when it has the support of the people. Ironic that the more military action is used against such a movement the more the people support that cause.

I must disagree with the assessment that a draft had little affect upon the ending of the war. Contrast the incessant protests, demonstrations and general angst about the war in Viet Nam with our current , and far too quiet acquiescence about Afghanistan.

any draft will discriminate against the poor and powerless, worse even than the current discrimination in recruiting mercenaries.

Currently the burden of this war falls upon those who signed up for intermittent service, meetings and a couple of weeks training each summer. With a draft the burden would be spread out, though the wealthy and powerful will always find a way to avoid sending their own children. We would no longer see incessant call backs to service which lead to great and lasting hardships.

Never and ever a revolution worked, all are corrupted bij people, and all came back to the main stream of human blood.

The humans have to strugle on and on, thats our desteny.

A citation from Zarathustra: die at the right time, some die too early, and some to late, so die on the right time.

TAO Walker says: The fault MarthaA finds with various ‘peasant revolutions’ in Mexico, for instance, only reveals her own entrapment in the mirrored fun-house of “power.”  She evidently cannot see that it doesn’t matter who takes-over the levers of political and economic “power.”  The apparatus itself always corrupts its operators.  That is its essential nature and only real purpose, after all.

Except MarthaA doesnt mind being corrupted. She just wants power so she can legally execute everyone who disagrees with her. “Shoot them till they no longer wiggle if I remember her quote correctly.

Isnt that right, Comrade Martha?

prole, September 16 at 4:10 pm,

Amy is talking about individuals, not the U.S. Government.

TAO Walker,

TAO Walker said: ““powers”-that-wannabe”

So, are you talking about the DLC, Democratic Leadership Council?

By Folktruther, September 19 at 7:31 pm #

I disagree with your position that the draft didn’t end Vietman.  The largest protests were in 69’ to 72’ in Washington DC and were increasingly becoming larger, more organized and more violent. 

Mothers and Fathers whose children were comming within draft age were beginning to come out to protest en masse accompanied with those parents whose sons and daughters had died. 

It was no coincidence that in 73’ the draft ended.

Ouroburus- the draft DID NOT end the Vietnam war, the viet cong did.  A guerilla movement tht does not lose, wins, and the Vietmanese outlasted the American ruling class.  As is occurring in Iraq and the Afpak war.

But as TAO says, the tendency is to fight the last war with its weapons.  Never in the history of the US has a draft occurred that did not favor the rich and pwoerful.  If we had power to institute such a draft it would not be necessary, since we would have the power to end the war.

any draft will discriminate against the poor and powerless, worse even than the current discrimination in recruiting mercenaries.

MarthaA and perhaps others here persist in believing they can find a way to fight “power” with “power.”  So they advocate putting together some kind of at-least quasi-formal “organization” to oppose their oppressors, but foolishly on the latters’ terms entirely. This unfortunately ignores the essentially delusional nature of “power,” and CONdemns those who would compete for it to endless CONflict over make-believe CONceits….with the inevitable descent into the same institutionalized insanity now already fatally afflicting those existing “powers”-that-wannabe, who are mistakenly perceived as greatly advantaged by their “position” in what is a completely artificial and inherently dead-end arrangement in-any-case.

The fault MarthaA finds with various ‘peasant revolutions’ in Mexico, for instance, only reveals her own entrapment in the mirrored fun-house of “power.”  She evidently cannot see that it doesn’t matter who takes-over the levers of political and economic “power.”  The apparatus itself always corrupts its operators.  That is its essential nature and only real purpose, after all.

There is no way out of the damned CONtraption using the instrumentalities of the thing itself.  All these are carefully designed, in-fact, to feed would-be escapees right back into the machinery….only much the worse for wear, as-a-rule.

So this Old Savage suggests that our tame Sisters and Brothers get out of their captivity by emerging from the suffocating shroud of their manufactured “individual”-ity and getting all together back into the natural Organic Form of Humanity within the Living Arrangement of our Mother Earth.  Some of us survivors of the long Turtle Island holocaust call this The Tiyoshpaye Way….the Way of true Living Human Community, not the fake varieties everybody talks-about but nobody actually lives-and-breathes in. 

Don’t some among ‘em at-least wonder why the tormentors have gone to such great lengths trying to rub-out every trace of us here….and, failing that, CONtinue to inundate their prisoners with propaganda intended to keep them blind to that failure?  The one VIABLE alternative to the “global” feed-lot system called “civilization” is also the one “movement” they and their two-legged tools are absolutely “power”-less to prevent.

Your “salvation,” homo domesticus, is in your very Humanity, with help and support from All Our Relations here.

Hokahey!

TAO Walker,

A worthwhile movement will have organization, not only against all the sophism and propaganda being spewed 24/7 in all forms of the media, but to be able to run the government.

A patriotic movement must not allow themselves to end up like numerous Mexican peoples movements, who take over power, but are unable to keep power, as they had no idea what to do and how to control their government once they have the power, and therewith lose their power.

Organization is paramount, should the people be able to get the government to succumb, the movement would have to continue to survive and not be dispelled like has happened so many times in Mexico.

To TAO Walker,

        exactly your citation ” the last war ” or the last stand, but its going on and on for ever.

Salutations

TAO Walker, September 18 at 6:39 pm #
Those here seem not to’ve noticed that the
“landscape” upon which they would act has changed
drastically.
================================================
Good point.
================================================
People in government, particularly any who are
involved in the shell-game of “homeland security” in
any capacity whatsoever (and that’s damned near all
of ‘em, one way and another) have been exempted by
law from answering to the citizenry for the duration
of “the emergency.”  THEY all know this.  Their
subjects mostly don’t.
=================================================
Again, I think you’re correct.
=================================================
The one thing they cannot prevent is people getting
ORGAN-ized in Living Communities where they live and
breathe every Day.  So instead there is this CONstant
barrage of propaganda and diversion intended to make
that the very last thing any of the captives will
think of.
==================================================
There’s the rub; one reason I left the states was the
reaction to the things I said regarding Bush, 9/11
(blowback), war and the utter lack of any resistance
from the majority of “our” representatives. The
things you teach require a radical change in the way
we think. I didn’t see that happening and my answer
was to leave.
==================================================
You ask; “Why is that, tame Sisters and Brothers?”
==================================================
My last comment (above) is a partial answer and even
I, realizing your truth, still cling to my old
paradigm and obsolete way of thinking. There is a
great schism between our talking and our doing. Stuck
is a very bad place to be.

Militaries are famous for preparing to fight “the last war.”  Those here who continue sincerely to propose using methods believed to’ve effected the end of the U.S. atrocities in Viet Nam, or any political activities at all, to influence the course of present-day equivalents, seem not to’ve noticed that the “landscape” upon which they would act has changed drastically.

Those the “....huddled masses” would hope to affect are, to-all-intents-and-purposes, beyond their reach now.  People in government, particularly any who are involved in the shell-game of “homeland security” in any capacity whatsoever (and that’s damned near all of ‘em, one way and another) have been exempted by law from answering to the citizenry for the duration of “the emergency.”  THEY all know this.  Their subjects mostly don’t.

What’s more, vested interests are almost limitlessly able to preempt any effort from “below” that might even possibly upset the “project.”  The one thing they cannot prevent is people getting ORGAN-ized in Living Communities where they live and breathe every Day.  So instead there is this CONstant barrage of propaganda and diversion intended to make that the very last thing any of the captives will think of.

Why is that, tame Sisters and Brothers?

HokaHey!

A draft makes war inconvenient for the Ruling Elite and more connected to the entire population of the Nation as a whole.

A draft makes the Ruling Elite responsible to justify war to the entire Nation, so that, as is the present case, only the poor and the disadvantaged are faced with having to be soldiers as their only viable economic option, and left in a position where only their families care whether they live or die, and since they do not have a MAJORITY political voice, can be taken advantage of to fight Wars of Convenience for the Ruling Elite.

As for the war in Afghanistan, or anywhere else for that matter, we need only
look in the mirror for the cause.  A draft will not solve the issue of the
corp/military control of this government, and the world.  A draft will only continue
the madness.  We are the reason that the war continues.  The american public
seems to be incapable of excepting their responsibility for this and would rather
watch the NFL or the next reality show and drink beer.  If we really wanted peace,
we would bring justice into the world.  War does not produce peace.  More soldiers
is not the solution.  What probably continues the US foreign conflicts is that we
actually believe we are right.  We actually believe that we are bringing democracy
to the world.  It might even be funny if anyone would actually see it.  We don’t
bring peace.  We bring a cruise missile.  We don’t produce democracy.  We
produce rubble.  So go back to sleep america.

PatrickHenry, September 18 at 6:45 am #

Even if paid a lot of money; I couldn’t have said it
better.

In for a penny, in for a pound.

In boardrooms across America the desire to go to war for sake of profit and power would change overnight if those who fed the meat grinder began sending their own sons and daughters.

We have reached a point in own nations history where women can and should be drafted if not to serve on the front lines but preferably in support capacities currently filled by contractors.  Nurses and medical support would always welcome their presence.  If the alpha type women wish to serve on the front lines and can pass the test, then so be it.

There are always going to be those deemed mentally unfit for military service, this “out” in my opinion, should also make them unfit for public office as well.  There will always be trash on the road to pick up. 

Compulsory national service would go along way in melting the ethnicities, religions and social castes into Americans and freeing many from unfound predjudices taught to us by generations of bedtime stories, peer pressure and innuendo.

I watched many of my friends get out of the draft by joining trade union apprenticeships and by attending college.  Some went to Vietnam and came back, some didn’t.  The ability to get out of an unpleasant and uncertain futures should not be a matter of connections and influence especially if it is a future all of us are connected to.

By making all of America subject to personal loss I feel those who have the keys to pandora box will be far less motivated to open it.

ardee, September 18 at 6:07 am #
Thank you for stating the position so well, though I
fail to see why it was necessary to do so…...
==============================================

Um, ah, er, hell if I know???

Ouroborus, September 18 at 4:43 am #

Thank you for stating the position so well, though I fail to see why it was necessary to do so…...

MarthaA, September 18 at 1:11 am #
if there was ABSOLUTELY NO WAY ANYONE COULD GET OUT OF
THE DRAFT and the draft would be null and void if EVEN
ONE wealthy person’s child male or female didn’t have
to serve… no excuses whatsoever, as there should be a
place for everyone
====================================================
The point exactly.

Addendum: Simply put;
implementing a draft would be the beginning of the end
of senseless wars and thereby the MIC. Maybe.

Ouroborus,

A draft should keep the military from being able to hire all those mercenaries.  The only way I would go along with a draft would be if there was ABSOLUTELY NO WAY ANYONE COULD GET OUT OF THE DRAFT and the draft would be null and void if EVEN ONE wealthy person’s child male or female didn’t have to serve… no excuses whatsoever, as there should be a place for everyone, but what actually happens is the wealthy exempt their children and only the poor fight for the wealthy in the wealthy’s private wars, which should never have been allowed.

I also think that any time there is a war to be decided that there must be a referendum vote of the entire population as to whether or not the country should go to war and if the majority of the people do not vote for war, there will be no war.

Folktruther, September 18 at 12:25 am #

Patrick Henry, Ardee, ourborus, you want to incrrease
militarim by instituting a Draft?  You’re all as
crazy as loons.  We want to decrease the military,
not increase it.
================================================

I’m afraid you’ve greatly mis-understood us (if I may
be all inclusive here). The reasoning goes, that when
the offspring of the war hawks have to fight in their
wars; the wars will stop. If, as Patrick Henry says,
there are “no exemptions” and this is the key point;
then what politician would sign a bill implementing a
national draft? Thereby guaranteeing their children
would be sent into the meat grinders that are
Afghanistan/Iraq? It is largely agreed that the
military draft shut down the Viet Nam war. As I
previously stated; it is for this very reason there
will be no draft as it runs diametrically opposed to
the freedom the military industrial complex now
enjoys. An all volunteer army is their wet dream come
true. An economy in the toilet is a guaranteed supply
of bodies.

Patrick Henry, Ardee, ourborus, you want to incrrease militarim by instituting a Draft?  You’re all as crazy as loons.  We want to decrease the military, not increase it.

Ourbourus, the situation is merely desparate, not hopeless.

OzarkMichael, September 16 at 2:17pm,

“MarthaA said: Christianity needs a thorough cleansing from Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST brainwashing.”

OzarkMichael said: “Do not talk about “mild mannered and peace loving””

MarthaA’s answer: Why not, the Bible says Christians are suppose to be mild mannered and peace loving?  Are you judging all Christians by me, MichaelA?  I am mild mannered and peace loving, but one has to do something about those who would upset the peace. Are YOU condemning Christians to NOT being mild mannered and peace loving? Or, is that just YOU?

I still agree with my statement that Christianity needs a thorough cleansing from Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST brainwashing.”

My Bible says there is nothing wrong with destroying evil, as long as it is truly evil, like Charles Manson and Son of Sam.  I consider it a similar traitorous evil for cooperative corporations to be declared by law equal with individual citizens, and that all the people pushing to make cooperative corporations equal with individual citizens where individual citizens will be ruled with an iron hand by corporations should be demised, but I prefer legal means unless there is no legal means, then anarchy would have to be the law and whatever will be will be for the treacherous traitors. Moses killed an Egyptian for the same reason, and he wrote five books of the Old Testament.  Even God killed a lot of Ancient Egyptians when the river closed in on them, do you think that was cruel? 

Perhaps YOU do not think there should be a death penalty for evil traitorous people, but it is alright with YOUR Conservative self for our government to kill brown people? That’s was OK with YOU when Bush started the brown people wars and started shooting them until they no longer wiggled, wasn’t it?

As a choice, would YOU prefer crucifixion for traitors?  After all it was how Jesus died.  Or would you prefer for citizens to have to provide for traitors the rest of their lives in prison?  I think it is best when a preponderance of objective evidence proves a person guilty of treason against the people of a nation beyond a shadow of a doubt that the treasonous person should be killed.

Liecatcher:

The genocide of millions of Jews was not done by an elite handful of Germans.  Likewise the Russian gov’t didn’t exterminate 20million humans without the assistance of hundreds of thousands of its citizens.  Uncommon evil can be committed by ordinary banal participants and ignorance or willful blindness is not excuse.
Loving wives and mothers have packed their spouses and offspring off to brutal wars of aggression in the name of patriotism, God and Country or whatever pretext with the same gusto as a Spartan or Roman matron.
We shouldn’t deceive ourselves that Native American or primitive populations throughout history have been any better.  When resources because scarce, all cultures been willing to take someone else’s, even at the expense of the lives of former friends and acquaintances.
Neither Mom, Dad, Joe Plumber, or most of our Congress ever questioned the correctness or morality of these military forays.  On this thread one poster mentions that regardless of morality, we should be willing to prosecute any war we undertake to the fullest degree.  If that means murdering and entire nation, so be it.
This has been the mindset of a large portion of the human race through recorded history, and probably in the prehistoric past.  If it is perceived that violence will get a larger share of resources for my tribe, and help insure my genetic survival through my offspring, the typical human throws all pretense of morality and human kindness out the window, and returns to the naked ape capable of a level of violence that makes the rest of the primate world seem tame, and us the wild things.
We are not talking about changing political thought or restricting the actions of an elite few.  We are talking about changing human nature, or somehow convincing them that taking the lion’s share of world resources isn’t in the best interest of themselves and their tribe.
I don’t see it happening in the near future.  The Cults of Abraham are all cultural expressions of warmongering and violence and are motivational tools for the Military Industrial Complex.  The West sees the Dharmic religions and Dao as nihilistic and culturally suicidal.  Violence may be too much a part of the human animal, and those of us that dream of peaceful coexistence may be living in a dream world.
Until some evolutionary leap occurs, peace and equitable distribution of resources is just not a priority for much of the human species.

ardee, September 17 at 5:49 am #

I also whole heartedly agree with PatrickHenry’s post;
but you know, as do I, it won’t happen. Reimplementing
the draft would surely stop this nonsense and that’s
exactly why it’s not going to happen. We’ve entered the
age of perpetual war and nothing short of annihilation
(ours) will stop it. Pity.

PatrickHenry, September 16 at 9:31 pm #

Share the evil, reinstate the draft with no deferments.

For perhaps the very first time ever I am in total agreement with a PatrickHenry post…..scary.

“Let Us Not Become the Evil We Deplore”;

It’s too late; nearly 40 years ago in 1971, The
Pentagon Papers were released, thanks to Daniel
Ellsberg and The New York Times. These papers
detailed the lies, torture, war crimes, and
unprovoked aggression of the U.S. Ellsberg calls the
war in Afghanistan, Vietnamistan, and the parallels are
stunning. The horrific truth is that we are doing the
same thing 38 years later; nothing has changed, so the
title of this article (Let Us Not Become the Evil We
Deplore) is ludicrous. 38 years and how many more
years before that? Hopeless I say, hopeless!

It may be worse than we all thought.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/16/nato-forces-afghan-militias

New York University’s Centre on International Co-operation (CIC) reports that the use of private security companies and militias is growing exponentially and accounts for up to a fifth of the funds spent on Afghan reconstruction.

These would be Afghan warlord groups.

The CIC report, called The Public Cost of Private Security in Afghanistan, says many of the troop contingents in Nato’s International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) use private militias not only to guard their camps and secure convoys, but also for “black ops”, including detention and interrogation.

Unfortunately, the report was published today and very quickly scrubbed. However bad the situation is now, there’s a good chance that we’re currently making it much, much worse.

Share the evil, reinstate the draft with no deferments.

Quite right, Xntrk, the vigil against the School of the Americas on Nov 20-22 is especially important this year, becuase Obama is extending the War on Terrorism to Latin America.  He is putting seven bases in Columbia to threaten the oil reserves of Venzuela.  He has already effected a coup in Hondouras, and he is sending carrier groups to threaten the other states.  this is all done under the pretense of the War against Drugs.

In my humble opinion, both Hedges and Scheer are preaching to the choir and the power-that-be knows that so both are given some leeway in which they can pontificate and preach and push the envelope just a little bit.
I notice, as someone wrote before, a lot of circling around and beating around the bushes and all mostly concerned by symptoms and not the root causes and what to be done.
There were similar characters during the zenith of the British Empire who decried this and critisized that and called for the empire to carry the “White Man Burden” with humanity and compassion toward the those so called “backward” natives!!!.

It’s truly bizarre to imply that the U.S. is somehow still pure and virtuous and the only danger is that we might somehow become evil ourselves one day if we don’t watch out, just like all those other alleged bad people we’re so righteously battling around the world. “President Lyndon Johnson escalated the war in Vietnam and ultimately decided not to run for re-election. But he also passed Medicare, the revered, single-payer health insurance program for seniors.” Unfortunately, no domestic program can ever atone for the indescribable barbarity of the American assault on Nam and neighboring countries. Only someone as deluded as Amy Goodman could believe the U.S. is not evil after that. “Barbara Lee presciently compared the invasion of Afghanistan to Vietnam in her speech back in 2001”...along with a lot of other dissenters, you didn’t have to be very prescient to suspect that. Too bad she didn’t compare the invasion of Gaza last January to Vietnam or something similar. While Lee didn’t sign on to the despicable Pelosi resolution endorsing Israel’s savage onslaught, neither did she oppose it, instead waffling on the issue by voting present on the resolution. Lee also declined to support another resolution in the House at the same time, introduced by Reps. Dennis Kucinich, Lynne Woolsey, and John Conyers, among others, calling for an immediate ceasefire and unrestricted humanitarian access to Gaza. She didn’t issue a statement of her own about the bloodbath until it had raged for 20 days and upwards of 1,200 Palestinians, including more than 400 children, had been exterminated. And despite the extreme brutality of the attack and the copious evidence compiled by the UN and human rights groups, Lee has still not condemned it herself.  More importantly, Lee is a member of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs where she is in a position to press for the termination of all military aid to Israel - something she has never even remotely suggested. Given the desultory state of the House - symbolized by that arch-fiend Pelosi as Speaker - Lee’s record is not half bad and she deserves some credit on some issues. But there’s a lot more she could and should be doing to further humanitarian aims in such a position of trust. And a lot more we all could be doing. Or we’ll never un-become the evil we are.

ah, Amy…

I hate to break it to you… but given that both Dems & Republicans have funded
WHINSEC for decades…

I’d have to say the use of a FUTURE TENSE in that title… is tragically optimistic & is probably used to avoid insulting American audience members who haven’t two clues to rub together.

I hate to say it:  but the US has been fucking “Big E” Evil for decades… in fact,
we can draw a direct parallel to the ‘War of Independence” where thugs &
assholes convinced the other 2/3 of the population that MEETINGS &
DETERMINED LEGAL FORMATS were inferior approaches to reforms
implemented at the butt of rifles & pointy ends of knives…

But let’s save that for another day (because once you say ‘gimme Liberty or
Gimme Death… & then kill one’s neighbours, you’ve set the Gold Standard for
handling EVERY issue & calling it ‘nationalism’

let’s just consider how much ADVERTISING & PROPAGANDA the US used to
indoctrinate Europe to believe the ‘American Dream’.

Yeah, the American Dream:  is complete bullshit.

Somebody, finally wake up.  The American Dream is NO FUCKING DIFFERENT
than anybody else’s… the difference like that great moment in “Mad Men’ where
they come up with the term ‘its toasted!’ to ‘differentiate’ tobacco cigarettes
from EVERY OTHER CIGARETTE.

Anybody who believes in the American Dream is fucking stupid.
or in the words of George Carlin, “They call it the American Dream because you
have to be asleep to believe in it!”

I find it amazing that most people seem to think this warlike behavior originated in modern times. Such abuses of power have been occuring since the dawn of civilization. White Europeans certainly did NOT introduce warfare to the Native Americans, and not all Europeans condone what their ancestors did. America WILL follow the path of every other regime who ruled by these policies. This is not an opinion, this is a simple declaration of a fact. Until mankind, collectively and world-wide, decides to change what we fundamentally value, this state of affairs will continue. It is not up to our governments to determine the fate of humanity, it is up to humanity to do so. Our governments are NOT who we are as human beings. Do not think that anyone in America is basically any different from someone in Afghanistan, or China, or Palestine, or Brazil, or anywhere else. We are all the same, we all want the same things from life. Until every person on earth realizes our connectedness, we are doomed to do the bidding of our political masters out of fear of The Enemy; aka Them, or They. There is no real enemy, there is only ourselves to blame.

MarthaA said: Christianity needs a thorough cleansing from Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST brainwashing.

Yes, so it can, as MarthaA says, take conservatives and shoot them til they no longer wiggle.

Do not talk about “mild mannered and peace loving”, MarthaA. Your own words show how bloodthirsty you are. You are exposed as a complete fraud.

Let Us Not Become the Evil We Deplore
Posted on Sep 15, 2009 By Amy Goodman

Hey Amy Goodman:

Your well written,passionate & sincere essays are the
most painful to read because your lack of perspective
causes you to blame the victims. When you use the
words
“us” & “we” in relation to evil, you make it sound
like
we the people,Main Street, are responsible for all
the permanent wars, the bankruptcy & destruction of
America,the murders of millions of men, women, &
children around the world. Your website was the only
one I’ve seen that reported that a BILLION people
around the world are starving to death. That & the
rest of the plundering & devastation going on around
the world is not caused by
“us” & “we”, but by the NEW WORLD ORDER:ONE WORLD
GOVERNMENT CABAL, which controls our government that
“us” & “we” live in & since it’s no longer a
Democracy,we are the powerless victims. The U.S. is
the #1 arms dealer in the world. The MILITARY
INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX, & THE MEDICAL INSURANCE
PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX own Congress & we
the people are not the evil doers. Some bloggers have
actually said that we deserve what we get because we
are stupid & allow it to happen. If mainstream media
told the truth, then you & Robert Scheer & the few
other truth telling websites wouldn’t be necessary. Americans
are the fattest people in the world & our cerebral
cortexes are constantly being washed by the oligarchs, but that doesn’t make us evil.

Bogi666, ALL empires, without exception, are failures, because all, without exception, fall sooner or later. Those people, in and out of the ranks of the Elites, who think that the American Empire will be an exception to the rule will one day be disillusioned of that fantasy.

When I visited Afganistan in the70 ties, the people had no education at all, now they have no education or say a little, this people fight becouse they have nothing to do and nothing to lose.

The biggest nation is fighting, growenups but still children, as a human I feel beshamed for doing this,we schould protecting them like other naief humans like Thibetans and others, all for the bloody money.

Thats wy I cannot beleef in Obama and other politiciens, they are accomplices of the kapitalists, money, power thats wat counts.

Stencil,

Stencil said:  “nothing more than the evolution of greed in a society that values profits above lives, that values corporate will above democratic majorities.”

MarthaA’s answer:  Which isn’t saying anything good about the character of our society.  I wonder how mild mannered peace loving Christians, as all followers of Christ are to be, can agree, push and follow the values of corporate dominance and warmongering and still look themselves in the face and call themselves Christians, but they do. Christians even think socialism is evil, can you believe it?  Christianity needs a thorough cleansing from Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST brainwashing.

PS I forgot to say Patricia Ellsberg is the name of
Daniel Ellsberg’s wife.  (I didn’t know it at the time
I posted a comment under his book excerpt on nuclear
proliferation and US military planning and forgot to put it into my comment here.)

I thought Daniel Ellsberg, guest, with his wife (and they were with the documentarian, “Most Dangerous Man in America” as Ellsberg was referred to by Kissinger)
was perfect when he pointed out, today, on DemNow,
that Obama’s domestic projects will “go the way of
Lyndon Johnson’s” as a result of Vietnam war spending. http://www.democracynow.org
He has pointed out that Afghanistan should be called
Vietnam plus Afghanistan ...and I can’t remember how
he combined the two into one word.  He also lamented
(as he has in recent past interviews) that he didn’t act sooner in releasing the Pentagon Papers.  He
points out how people can do things.  I also like the point he makes that one is deluded when thinking
one can make “change from the inside”, working in government and learn after a couple of months on the job how impossible it is.

the Afghans recruited and trained by the Taliban
can whip the Afghans recruited and trained by the US.
And we are told it might be 8-10 more years before
our Afghans can whip their Afghans.
Why?

thebeerdoctor, after bombing helpless nations without air forces or air defenses, the Pentagon and its enablers then scream and pound their chests telling themselves and their believers how tough the Pentagon is. A bully, the USG, bragging and praising itself for being a bully which only picks on the defenseless. This is indicative of insanity not knowing right from wrong, a legal definition I think.

Stencil, the purpose of the Pentagon is to protect the corporate interests around the world and increasingly space.Anyone that thinks it’s the Pentagon’s purpose to do what it claims it is doing, defending our liberties and us is a fool. President Obushama by embracing the Bush administration’s policy of bailing out the Wall St. CORPORATE WELFARE KINGS with the tax money of individuals means the USG has devolved into Fascism which is when the government collects tax monies and DOLE’S IT OUT TO THE CORPORATE WELFARE KINGS with the Wall St. bailout being the last straw. Obushama’s continuation of Bush’s wars just proves how entrenched Fascism is in Wash., DC. Wall St and Wash., DC is the AXIS OF EVIL.The drive to Fascism started in 1935 when their were plans for a military coup to overthrow FDR. The coup planners solicited Gen. Smedley Butler to be the leader, he refused and expose the plan. Prescott Bush was involved and continued his investments with NAZISM until forced to divest his investments in 1942 which he did reluctantly. It’s really too late and the only recourse is in the streets which is doomed to failure. The most brave of our society are those in Code Pink who peacefully challenge directly the war mongers and criminals and they are promptly arrested for exercising their Constitutional right of free speech.In the meantime the Supreme Court is deciding whether a Corporation can run for congressional office as a Corporate Person and fund itself without limit because it is merely exercising its freedom of speech. If these aren’t sign enough of the end of what has been a very weak Republic to begin with just keep smoking it whatever it is those without ears or eyes smoke.

The richest country in the world decides it is in their interest to bomb one of the poorest countries in the world. But there is a snag to this savagery: how do you bomb people into the stone age, when they are not very far from there to begin with?

To Robert,

      Tou speek as that before all this happended, small Aziê, wash an paradise to live in,

In the name of God the most gracious and most merciful, the beliefers have killed and killed, just anything that wash thinking otherwise as them.

If their wash a God, he had to dome all humans for their evil and blood thirst, so to speek.

salutations

I’m convinced we are in Afghanistan for the sole purpose of protecting the bottom line of US defense contractors. We hear the noise from the mass media outlets, the fear machine demands we acknowledge impending terrorist attacks, and if we don’t act preemptively by bombing the children of other countries till the fear machine tells us it’s OK to stop, than surly one day soon we’ll be under “attack” again by the dark boogie men of our id. The premise for our wars now is an easy metaphor for Forbidden Planet, we made the monsters with our will and technology, and now we face the monsters our fear created.

It would be easy to look at our society as a whole and see a conspiracy between government and our corporations; but frankly I think it’s much more organic, nothing more than the evolution of greed in a society that values profits above lives, that values corporate will above democratic majorities. We see this in every aspect of our failing state’s policy, from domestic issues like health care, to international issues like elective profit generating wars. This is the great failure of our political system as it stands today, there is no real division in our two party system, democrats and republicans alike have the same interests; the same goals. The differences they manifest for us publicly are to protect the illusion of a democratic society. Both sides play to the fears of their constituents to maintain their seat, but not to serve the people who elect them. They sit to serve the corporations that contribute to their campaign or offer them board positions if they must fall on a political hand-grenade for the sake of a lobby’s interests. The reason we only allow two parties to speak in mass-media elections is because both parties candidates will serve the corporate will. In the end the differences between Barak Obama and John McCain seem to be little more than what side you get your strawberry on in your Neapolitan ice cream. To the corporations they are identical, interchangeable commodities that will provide equally attractive results. 

The only criticism I have of the article is the title. All I can think is, welcome to 1965. Amy Goodman remains one of the few voices that tackles issues of our nation that most main stream media outlets refuse to report on. Not only is she a great voice for our time but a positive one, asking questions that can bring about positive change rather than simple condemnation of corruption and greed. The sad thing is, the mass media indoctrinates the minds of US citizens so well that if you take someone who’s grown up on CNN and sit them in front of “Democracy Now!” for the first time in their life they will likely dismiss the whole show as lies, deception and propaganda. You just can’t put Democracy Now side to side with Anderson Cooper and see any consistent narrative of events. In fact, simply because of the time exposed to the banality of CNN, “Democracy Now!” will appear to be the bizzaro world to the first time viewer. If they can make it to the 2nd show, their is hope for America.

Code Pink, putting Barbara Lee’s quote to music was a nice touch. It helps us not forget the value of dissenting voices in our society. Heard it on Amy Goodman’s show yesterday!

By using the failed empire model of the USSR, we have become the evil we deplored, the USSR a failed empire by definition. Their is a proverb which warns against focused thinking on what one deplores as that is which will manifest, the deplored.

Iraq and AfPak provide excellent conditions for weapons testing an opportunity that cannot be missed. The USA is a failed empire by definition because the resources of the colony, the USA, is exploited to support the colonies. This in the model of the USSR when the resources of the Russian Republic were used to support their colonies, the other Republics. A successful empire is when the colonizer exploits the wealth of the colonies to enrich itself.

Afghanistan may yet be the final straw which breaks the camel’s back of the American Empire, and the history books may well say of Mr. Obama that he reaped Bush’s foul harvest.

“Necessary war”, my great fat avoirdupois!

Among our nations “best friends” are Israel, one of the worlds most terrorist states, and Saudi Arabia, the financier that supplies the leadship cadres for most Islamic terrorism. And then there is the US, reponsible for more civilian deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan than all of the worlds terrorist organizations combined.

Terrorism is a tool to keep the Gears of the War Machine well greased.  Go back one day and read Pappy Bush’s 1000 Points of Light speech.  The only promise he has kept from that speech is that America would maintain its military dominance and spread the “1000 points of light” at the point of a sword.

With the USSR out of power, we have become the worlds last colonial power, and our ruling elite are determined to maintain that position until the effort destroys us.  By then, they will have transferred wealth and power to their next patsy.

My Flower to Bush, the Occupier

The Story of My Shoe

September 15, 2009

By MUTADHAR al-ZAIDI

  “Mutadhar al-Zaidi, the Iraqi who threw his shoe at George Bush gave this speech on his recent release.

In the name of God, the most gracious and most merciful.

Here I am, free. But my country is still a prisoner of war.

Firstly, I give my thanks and my regards to everyone who stood beside me, whether inside my country, in the Islamic world, in the free world. There has been a lot of talk about the action and about the person who took it, and about the hero and the heroic act, and the symbol and the symbolic act.

But, simply, I answer: What compelled me to confront is the injustice that befell my people, and how the occupation wanted to humiliate my homeland by putting it under its boot.

And how it wanted to crush the skulls of (the homeland’s) sons under its boots, whether sheikhs, women, children or men. And during the past few years, more than a million martyrs fell by the bullets of the occupation and the country is now filled with more than 5 million orphans, a million widows and hundreds of thousands of maimed. And many millions of homeless because of displacement inside and outside the country.

We used to be a nation in which the Arab would share with the Turkman and the Kurd and the Assyrian and the Sabean and the Yazid his daily bread. And the Shiite would pray with the Sunni in one line. And the Muslim would celebrate with the Christian the birthday of Christ, may peace be upon him. And despite the fact that we shared hunger under sanctions for more than 10 years, for more than a decade.

Our patience and our solidarity did not make us forget the oppression. Until we were invaded by the illusion of liberation that some had. (The occupation) divided one brother from another, one neighbor from another, and the son from his uncle. It turned our homes into never-ending funeral tents. And our graveyards spread into parks and roadsides. It is a plague. It is the occupation that is killing us, that is violating the houses of worship and the sanctity of our homes and that is throwing thousands daily into makeshift prisons.

I am not a hero, and I admit that. But I have a point of view and I have a stance. It humiliated me to see my country humiliated. And to see my Baghdad burned. And my people being killed. Thousands of tragic pictures remained in my head, and this weighs on me every day and pushes me toward the righteous path, the path of confrontation, the path of rejecting injustice, deceit and duplicity. It deprived me of a good night’s sleep.

Dozens, no, hundreds, of images of massacres that would turn the hair of a newborn white used to bring tears to my eyes and wound me. The scandal of Abu Ghraib. The massacre of Fallujah, Najaf, Haditha, Sadr City, Basra, Diyala, Mosul, Tal Afar, and every inch of our wounded land. In the past years, I traveled through my burning land and saw with my own eyes the pain of the victims, and hear with my own ears the screams of the bereaved and the orphans. And a feeling of shame haunted me like an ugly name because I was powerless.”

http://www.counterpunch.org/zaidi09152009.html

Indeed. It was a crock of shit from the beginning, and mired end was completely predictable. But it isn’t going to stop. For one, the US economy is - regardless of political talk - a military-Keynesian economy. Its lifeblood is war, and it isn’t going to end until it cannot go on any more.

And the stimulus program was so badly designed that much more is needed, but the political landscape won’t allow it. So the only way is to run stimulus money through the war machine.

This is how it ends. And to add to the Hunter S. Thompson thoughts below, “We’re a nation of pigs and we’ll get what we deserve.”

When Lee was speaking, planes were flying, loaded with bombs and other killing apparatus.  The SOBs knew exactly what they were doing, dusting off their shelved paperwork and screaming about pre-emptive war, tribunals, cultivating a destructive climate of fear, hiding everything in classic state paranoia.
Parts of Afghanistan remain a nasty killing field, with the US once again paying cut throats to wipe out women and children.

Permit me a quote from Hunter S. Thompson that pretty much sums up our present situation.
“We have become a Nazi monster in the eyes of the world-a nation of bullies and bastards who would rather kill than live peacefully.  We are not just Whores for power and oil, but killer Whores with hate and fear in our hearts.  We are human scum and that is how history will remember us.”

Hunter was talking about the United States under George W. Bush but I think Hunter would agree that nothing has changed under Barrack Obama.  Obama is simply an Uncle Tom.

Place: A dimly lit, oak paneled room in Chicago.
Present:  Uncle Barrack and several rich, powerful white men.
Time: The day before Uncle Barrack annouces his run for President of the United State.

Rich White Guy:  Now Uncle Barrack we’ve heard good things about you.  You’re smart, articulate, handsome and we think you just might be able to pull this thing off.  But it’s a big step from being a field n*gger to becoming a house n*gger.  You can say and promise whatever you want during the campaign but if you get elected you have to play by our rules… Do you understand Uncle Barrack?

Uncle Barrack:  Oh yes Mas’r!!! I’s understands!  I’s be a good boy and do’s whatever ya’all tells me. I sho nuff am sorry ‘bout speaken out agin that war ober ther in Iraq.. Sho nuff…  But please don’t send me back to them no count field n*ggers!!!!  I’s gots my eyes set on liben up in the Big House we all you fine White folks… You’s can count on Uncle Barrack.. Sho nuff…

If this offends anyone, I apologize from the bottom of my heart..  Whatever that means…

Politicians are experts at reading our collective mood and molding it into actions which benefit their agenda, not ours.  It is a sad fact that Europeans brought their warring ways to the new world and inflicted such genocide on the native inhabitants they found.  How much better America would have been had we all worked together to build this nation.  This failure is just one of many stains we carry as a country.  Unfortunately, we cannot turn back that clock and must focus all our energies on stopping the wars that exist today.  Afghanistan is not a war we can win but we can loose it far worse than we already have.  There is no benefit to fighting the Taliban as they only grow stronger each time we kill an innocent civilian.  That is their country and we need to leave it to them.  Just walk away and let them begin to sort things out their way.

The same applies to adversaries throughout the world.  We can no longer be the world’s policeman.  History has show how ineffective we are at that job.  We need to stop projecting our warped vision across the world and fix the mess we have at home.

Ms. Goodman remains an eloquent and accurate voice crying in the wilderness. The American public remains a disinterested and far too easily hearded bunch of cats.

TAO Walker,

        Humanety is not white, red, or yellow, its in humanety itself, evil is born in humans like goodness.

        Look to the history of the human behavior, its live, blood is live, evil is live, eat or geth eaten.

        Civilisation is a very thin skin, it breaks easy, plus most of it is hypocrisy, you can sea it every day around you, money and sex, and this is it for all people.

          Salutations

TAO Walker, September 15 at 10:00 pm #

….your own CONtrived “selfs” included.
============================================

See, this is what “we” don’t get. We need to project
the blame on our handlers. I just don’t see the
majority of us waking up to that fact. The real problem
is, we don’t get it, but you do. Thanks.

Do not simply acknowledge our lust for genocide. Support the vigil at the gates to Fort Benning, GA in November for yet another vigil to shut down the School of the Americas - You all know about it: The infamous training site for our lackeys, henchmen, and thugs who do our dirty work in Latin America.

Please help to spread the word about the November 20-22 2009 Vigil to Close the SOA at the gates of Fort Benning, Georgia. If you have the time and the money for transportation, add it to your calendar.

I think that you are right, TAO.  Acknowledging the killing habits of the US power structure, supported by a large fraction of the American people, IS essential to changing them.  And, as well, that the people slaughtered are typcially non-White.  The homicidal racism of the US throughout history now drives the US War on Terrorism.

Empires follow a predictable path of self destruction. All of the empires of the
past have gone down in turn and the US empire will be no different. We are
near the end of our empire period right now.

Let Us Not Become the Evil We Deplore

We already have and it happened a long time ago.

As near as us surviving free wild Turtle Island Natives have been able to tell, you allamerican tame two-leggeds have been “....the evil (you) deplore” for over five hundred years now….and the holocaust is still in-“PROGRESS.”  For the real story of why, and how, evil’s seductions have been so irresistible to you, as “individuals” and as “citizens” and as “believers,” see Leslie Silko’s “CEREMONY.”

You are cogs in an apparatus designed, built, and a operated to effect the terminal “civilization” of everything belonging to the Living Arrangement of our Mother Earth….your own CONtrived “selfs” included.  So why don’t you all quit pretending to an abhorence of evil nowhere evident in either your self-glorifying “history” or your present CONduct.

Maybe admitting your killing habits would be a first step toward finally kicking them.

HokaHey!

Amazing that Obama realizes that we could fund health care for all with the money that we’re blowing on the war—but he still doesn’t want to give up his war.

Totally freaking amazing….

Obama was right that the money spent on the Iraq war could have funded health care for all.  Joseph Stiglitz and Laura Bilmes put the figure at $3 trillion, when you take into account the cost of veterans care, future loss of productivity (and tax revenue) due to death and disability of soldiers - and they calculate that the overall cost to the U.S. for the bad decisions of the Bush administration is closer to $10 trillion -

see democracynow.org for details -

Spending more money - and sending people to kill and/or be killed - in Afghanistan are bad moves for Obama.