No, mandinka, while I routinely read several mainstream news publications,I don’t read tabloids. I have come across quite a bit of unsavory information about the Bush family, and I know the political right wing was obsessed with Clinton (and every other Dem) and sex. To be honest, I’ve been much more concerned about the different presidents’ ability to make reasonable economic and international decisions.

You make some unusual allegations. You wrote, “... kennedy and Chris Dodds were the bells of the ball in Georgetown with their infamous waitress sandwich.”  I honestly don’t know what you’re talking about. The only thing I know connecting any Kennedys with rape involved one of the former senator’s nephews, NOT the senator. I do know that Kennedy never handed classified information over to the Soviets, and I know that real treason is punishable with imprisonment. (Note: The right-wing loosely applies this word to anything that is contrary to their ideas.) Think a minute: Had this happened, the Republican leadership would have had a LEGAL obligation to pursue charges—and they certainly would have jumped at the chance to do just that! Never happened.

No, I haven’t heard anything about Kennedy asking for contributions on behalf of the IRA. I do know about Reagan and Iran-Contra, etc., but not a connection between Kennedy and the IRA beyond the fact that both are Irish.

Since I do keep reasonably well-informed, yet somehow missed these stories, could you pass along some (legitimate) web site addresses concerning these allegations, so readers can check this out for themselves?

mandinka, September 8 at 1:23 pm

I wonder that this poster believes anyone gullible enough to buy into this garbage he spews on many progressive forums…..

DHF I guess newspaper and magazines are in short supply in your area. kennedy and Chris Dodds were the bells of the ball in Georgetown with their infamous waitress sandwich. Women working in Old Town and Georgetown were frequently assaulted bu those 2 sicko’s.
You don’t remember the Rape in his Florida residence??
Never advocated war?? He aggressively sought contributions for the IRA until Reagan put a stop to it. He was also committed treason by undermining our Salt talks with Russia by giving them classified information and how to bargain.
This guy was “SLIME”

mandinka, I see that you get your news from the National Enquirer. Don’t be so gullible.

Where did you get any notions about rape or attacking women??? I’m certainly not aware of any incident where Sen. Kennedy was involved with such a thing.  The closest thing to scandal was the incident with Mary Jo Kopechne and the car accident, and that had nothing to do with assault/rape.

Please explain why you wrote, “...his agenda would make Hitler look like a pansy.”  Unlike Bush, etc., Kennedy never advocated war, never encouraged ethnic hatred, never called for imprisoning any group of people, never promoted hate and brutality… didn’t even have a little mustache!  There is simply no logic in your comparison. So, what part of his agenda has you so riled up?

What possible reason could you have for claiming that attending a ceremony was a “slap in the face to the average Joe”???  Check his voting record (it’s available on line). For years, Sen. Kennedy’s
votes supported the average American worker/family, in contrast to that of Republicans who legislated in favor of the rich/corporations.  Sorry, but reality—and that long voting record—shows that Sen. Kennedy was solidly on the side of “the average Joe.”

You make some pretty strong statements, but you need to be able to back them up with facts.  Otherwise, you sound like a peevish little kid. What, exactly, is your complaint about Sen. Kennedy?  Are you just reciting nonsense promoted by those “talking heads” on the far-right, or is there anything real that angered you—s certain piece of legislation, for example?

DHF, burn out from what date night to being a tour guide for his family on AF 1? To date he has accomplished nothing, not that I’m complaining, his agenda would make Hitler look like a pansy.
Attending a ceremony for Kennedy was a slap in the average Joe’s face, who pay taxes, don’t kill or rape or attack women.

Mandinka, how is your memory? Specifically on the point of being sleepy in church, did you forget those photos of President Bush dozing off in church, cabinet meetings, etc.? 

Every president has scheduled vacation time, essential to avoid “burning out.” Our previous president, George Bush, spent more time on vacations than any other president in modern history. What made presidential vacation time an issue in the first place wasn’t just the extraordinary amount of time that Mr. Bush took for vacationing, but that he (unlike any other president, to my knowledge)chose to do so during times of immediate crisis (Hurricane Katrina, etc). And considering how Bush responded in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, it was probably for the best that he devoted so much time out of Washington, on vacation.

Too bad Barak and Michellew were too tired form their vacation in Martha’s Vineyard to keep their eyes open as they tried to sleep in the Church. Bet they would have perked up the Bishop had said Damn this country Damn Whitey

You learn the darndest things on truthdig…

Inherit The Wind, August 31 at 6:14 pm #

Yeah, military explosive used to undermine walls and gates of fortresses I believe.

I meant, in my clumsy way, to note the remark itself was sharp and hurtful…...in a humorous sense of course.

ardee, August 31 at 4:00 pm #

Heee, got me good…Drat that petard is sharp!
*************************************

Hate to make it worse, RD—but a petard is an explosive, not the hook on a crane.

Shakespeare’s line “The enginer is hoist on his own petard” meant the engineer (“enginer” in WS English) is tossed in the air by his own construction explosive.

So… remember: Close only counts in horse-shoes and hand-grenades—-and enginers’ petards!

“His was not the cause of the wealthy or the powerful but the poor and needy.”  It has been a tremendous disservice that Sen. Kennedy’s advocacy on behalf of the poor has been censored out of the public/media discussion.  The only thing I heard during his tribute concerning poverty was a tiny soundbite about “moving people from welfare to work;” tragically, government simply dumped most, moving them from welfare to the streets, unwilling to fund legitimate education and training, shutting down homeless shelters when they were already grossly inadequate to meet the need.  In spite of widespread American indifference toward the suffering of the poor today, Kennedy opposed the policies that we ended up with.

“Oh and its TEMERITY”—Ardee

Actually, it’s “it’s”, not “its”.

...............................

Heee, got me good…Drat that petard is sharp!

Quote: “That spirit of resilience and good humor would see Teddy through more pain and tragedy than most of us will ever know. He lost two siblings by the age of 16. He saw two more taken violently from a country that loved them. He said goodbye to his beloved sister, Eunice, in the final days of his life. He narrowly survived a plane crash, watched two children struggle with cancer, buried three nephews, and experienced personal failings and setbacks in the most public way possible.

It’s a string of events that would have broken a lesser man.”

Yet Sen. Kennedy went on to touch so many lives in so many ways.  Incredible.  Ted Kennedy Jr.‘s story is distinctly one of the most moving.  It said a great deal about the both of them, truthfully.  To comprehend the magnitude of their story is to think that that in itself would have been enough for any one family to endure.  Yet there seemed to be hundreds of stories and memories of Sen. Kennedy.  Each with their own measure of affection, courage, humor and empathy.  Without exception people were moved by Sen. Kennedy, Mario Solis-Marich @ Huffpo (an excerpt):

“Odd as it was that I was staring at the claw of the Lion of the Senate, strange as it was that he had chosen to sit next to me in an almost empty church, it seemed as if the extension of his hand in brotherhood was one of the most sincere that I was ever offered in such a setting or in any setting.

But not only was the hand sincere but here, in my face, was the very hand that had been offered to farm workers, and had been offered to people with AIDS. Here was the hand that was offered to people with disabilities, and workers looking for fairness. Here was the hand that had been offered as a welcome to immigrants and as a hand up to women athletes. In my grasp was a hand that tragically buried a president and a young presidential candidate, and had heroically saved countless lives in dozens of ways. As I shook that hand I was so dumbstruck that I was unable to respond to his words, “Peace be with you.” Since then I often hoped he hadn’t taken my muted surprise as some type of rejection. I often wonder if the Senator understood that in life most of us, unlike him, unfortunately hold back our words during our personal brushes with history.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mario-solismarich/the-hand-of-ted-kennedy_b_269184.html

I very much appreciate that Obama is able to use the English language with wit and style and to make himself clear.  I am especially glad when considering what Bush would have done with that situation. 

Listening to the various stories people told in reminiscing about Ted Kennedy, I
realized that I knew a lot less about him than I had assumed before.  Funerals
probably are inevitable exercises in learning more than you knew you could
have known.  I appreciated the stories of the little favors he did for people that
he didn’t have to do. 

A friend of mine, a Navajo English teacher and writer, shared with me that Ted
Kennedy traveled way out beyond the tourist zone to a community school that is in a very remote place
where there is no chance of any kind of media coverage.  His father had been a
security guard at the time and spent some time with Kennedy while he was
there.  He came home and vowed not to wash the hand that had shaken hands
with Kennedy.  A lot of people who are not in the Massachusetts area have
similar stories, which inspire lasting gratitude.

Perhaps we should pause to remember and to mourn our
own loss of common courtesy and respect.  We live in a time when our
distractions proliferate to such a degree that it seems to make us all like cats
spitting at each other in jealousy over dinner, even when all of us have food in
a bowl right in front of us. 

I hope somehow we can find a better appreciation for our common plight and a
way to find solutions through deliberation that brings out the best in our
intellectual abilities.  I suspect that times lie ahead that may well require that
of all humans on this planet. 

I fear however, that this discussion may indicate
something of a future where a confusion between the classic idea of argument
and being argumentative becomes more intense, leading to greater dysfunction
instead of greater acuity.  But I retain hope, somewhat because there are people like Ted Kennedy in the world who persist in hoping and working, despite personal failings, the possibility of violent opposition, the improbable likelihood of success and against the odds.  “The hope lives on and the dream shall never die.”  Man that guy could turn a phrase.

Hmmmm, and I thought the post got dumped.

“(one assumes a tractor-trailer, whose to say…)”—Outraged

Actually, it’s “who’s”, not “whose”.

“Oh and its TEMERITY”—Ardee

Actually, it’s “it’s”, not “its”.

Now that we’ve gotten this pronoun confusion squared away, you both may resume bellowing red faced and pounding the podium.  Teddy would be so proud!

“(one assumes a tractor-trailer, whose to say…)”—Outraged

Actually, it’s “who’s” not “whose”.

“Oh and its TEMERITY”—Ardee

Actually, it’s “it’s” not “its”.

Now that we’ve gotten this pronoun mess cleared up, you both may resume bellowing red faced and pounding on the podium.  Teddy would be so proud!

Not to beat a dead horse, or a dead intellect like that of outraged...but.

ardee:  “That said I must temper your enthusiasm with a small bit of reality. I predate you by a couple of decades and perhaps that is responsible for my differing view of events and the careers of the Kennedy clan.”  (apparently, the Kennedy’s are a “clan”, whoa…. we be talkin’ the Hatfields v. McCoy’s here folks)

The term “Kennedy clan” was hardly coined by me. Anyone at all familiar with the era and the reporting of that family has undoubtedly heard that phrase on numrous occasions. What, in fact, this particular criticisms of this asshole accomplish is to prove his simplemindedness and his attempt to diminish the poster rather than the contents of the post, thus the “asshole” attachment.

Here… PurpleGirl, tread carefully…. yes, it is likely accurate (as in half-truth) “ardee” predates you, as well as I, but “ardee” has a quote, “differing view”.  Certainly…. I agree.

with what exactly, moron?

ardee:  “I would first note that I am in full agreement with the praise of the Kennedy’s for their public service. How is one to criticize a family that has given so much to this nation, including the lives of four of its sons.”

Certainly I sense, “ardee”, who apparently drives a truck (one assumes a tractor-trailer, whose to say…) but has the time and TERMERITY to post so….so… “knowledgeably” regarding the matter may be just a tad disingenuous…... no?

Again a worthless and useless criticism, not of the post in question but of the poster’s chosen vocation. Yes I drive a tractor trailer, and for a major public utility. What exactly that has to do with my opinion on this matter is a question for this imbeciles psychiatrist I guess….Oh and its TEMERITY

You know, outraged, you really need a time out. If you cannot keep your opinions to those of the ideas expressed, and who could argue with one’s right to a differing opinion, then you deserve the epithets hurled back atcha. I have noted, on several occasions now, and others here have expressed the same sentiment, chiefly and recently shenonymous, that one is entitled to respond in kind.

So go perform an anatomically impossible task upon yourself….or better still, quit fucking yourself and post a rational opinion about the opinions expressed.

OK. I’ve said my say.  Time to eat popcorn and watch from the bleachers.

Outraged, August 30 at 11:57 pm #

What can one say about a post that exposes the worms in your head,Outraged. I must say you have chosen an apt name for yourself. Your rage bubbles over and your inability to debate points and opinions makes your rage about as worthy as a typical ten year old throwing a temper tantrum.

What, I wonder, do you think you have proven by this stupidity of yours?

Re: ITW

Your comment: “I was with you till the last line—you could have called RD’s explication something without calling RD a “fuck”. 

I saw, though, you ignored FT’s worthless and foundationless assessment.”

Certainly I willingly engage your premise, however…... prove me wrong.

My last line: “Ardee, YOU ARE PETTY.  YOU ALSO HAVE a “JAUNDICED EYE”.  You are full of shit, an ideologue and attempting to skew the TRUE merits of The People.  IMHO, YOU are a fuck.”

Would not the very viliest of vile present themselves as “the light of the world” or as an “objective voice”.  Certainly, if I were of their ilk, I would not present myself as the snake that….. truthfully, they are.  “ardee” is a bit much for my blood, IMHO.

Outraged,

I was with you till the last line—you could have called RD’s explication something without calling RD a “fuck”. 

RD laid out what he thought was going on—I think you took it apart very well.  Until the end.

You could have even called him an “opinionated @$$#ole” and I wouldn’t have said anything (after all, most of us, regardless of our POVs, are opinionated @$$#oles.)

I saw, though, you ignored FT’s worthless and foundationless assessment.

(shake of head)...well, there she goes again. the purpler tells us it’s not a class war or a political war, it’s a..a generational war!  people born of a certain time period are the problem!  and now the forty somethings are here to clean it up.  watch barackstar and timmy funnel $ to banks who created the problem and who are probably insolvent.  watch barackstar send more troops into afghanistan..after all u can’t look weak, the republicans would pounce on u for that.  isn’t that a good reason for more people to die?  yes, yes…i must shut up and stand aside while barackstar and timmy, with advice from our sociologist purpler, clean things up.

Re: Purplegirl

A TRANSLATION.

The WORLD according to “ardee”.

ardee:  “That said I must temper your enthusiasm with a small bit of reality. I predate you by a couple of decades and perhaps that is responsible for my differing view of events and the careers of the Kennedy clan.”  (apparently, the Kennedy’s are a “clan”, whoa…. we be talkin’ the Hatfields v. McCoy’s here folks)

Here… PurpleGirl, tread carefully…. yes, it is likely accurate (as in half-truth) “ardee” predates you, as well as I, but “ardee” has a quote, “differing view”.  Certainly…. I agree.

ardee:  “I would first note that I am in full agreement with the praise of the Kennedy’s for their public service. How is one to criticize a family that has given so much to this nation, including the lives of four of its sons.”

Certainly I sense, “ardee”, who apparently drives a truck (one assumes a tractor-trailer, whose to say…) but has the time and TERMERITY to post so….so… “knowledgeably” regarding the matter may be just a tad disingenuous…... no?

ardee:  “I would say that the criticisms of which I spoke concern the mediocre presidency of JFK, though he inspired a generation to be sure, the way he conducted the ill fated Bay Of Pigs operation and needlessly alienated Cuba is but one example of such.”

“A medicore presidency”, you don’t say…. hmmm.  Okay, I can work with that.  Although, according to “ardee”, JFK engaged in: “ill fated” operations and “needlessly alienated” Cuba….  Uh…huh.

Here’s where “ardee” pours it on, so to speak,  “Elsewhere on this forum I defended the record of Edward Kennedy from attacks I felt unscrupulous, (what does that tell you) unnecessary and unmitigated partisanship. He was indeed a Lion as folks have noted and will be sorely missed in fact amidst the battle to reform health care in this nation. I fear, in fact, that his loss dooms any practical reform from occurring…

Sadly, “ardee” seems to feel that “his loss dooms any practical reform (healthcare…that is) from occurring…  Go FIGURE..?????  Personally, I think it lends WEIGHT to the debate, but sadly “ardee” does not.  Will wonders never cease?

ardee continues:  “But the Kennedy’s operated within a system that rewards wealth and privilege and did somewhat devote their lives to assisting those not so fortunate in their choice of parents. Yet they did nothing at all to change the system for the better and that, in my opinion merits a jaundiced eye.”

Someone…... anyone…??? LOL.

Apparently, “ardee” feels that while the Kennedys’, “operated within a system that rewards wealth and privilege (as we ALL do).... and did somewhat devote their lives to assisting those not so fortunate in their choice of parents.” (unfortunate…. in your choice of parents?....lol) according to “ardee” this translates as: “they did nothing at all to change the system for the better and that, in my opinion merits a jaundiced eye.”

It’s difficult to not engage ardee’s “jaundiced eye”.  I agree…, “ardee”, you HAVE a jaundiced eye. 

I hope you will not think this petty, especially in the face of your own eloquence, but unless we face the fact of our sick political system and those who function within it, how can we hope for change?

Ardee, YOU ARE PETTY.  YOU ALSO HAVE a “JAUNDICED EYE”.  You are full of shit, an ideologue and attempting to skew the TRUE merits of The People.  IMHO, YOU are a fuck.

Obama has apparently found his niche at last, telling lies about dead people.  Better than the lies he tells to us.

Quite eloquent,PurpleGirl well done indeed.

That said I must temper your enthusiasm with a small bit of reality. I predate you by a couple of decades and perhaps that is responsible for my differing view of events and the careers of the Kennedy clan.

I would first note that I am in full agreement with the praise of the Kennedy’s for their public service. How is one to criticize a family that has given so much to this nation, including the lives of four of its sons.

I would say that the criticisms of which I spoke concern the mediocre presidency of JFK, though he inspired a generation to be sure, the way he conducted the ill fated Bay Of Pigs operation and needlessly alienated Cuba is but one example of such.

Elsewhere on this forum I defended the record of Edward Kennedy from attacks I felt unscrupulous, unnecessary and unmitigated partisanship. He was indeed a Lion as folks have noted and will be sorely missed in fact amidst the battle to reform health care in this nation. I fear, in fact, that his loss dooms any practical reform from occurring…

But the Kennedy’s operated within a system that rewards wealth and privilege and did somewhat devote their lives to assisting those not so fortunate in their choice of parents. Yet they did nothing at all to change the system for the better and that, in my opinion merits a jaundiced eye.

I hope you will not think this petty, especially in the face of your own eloquence, but unless we face the fact of our sick political system and those who function within it, how can we hope for change?

As a person born in ‘63
And as a Student of Sociology
I request (demand) that those of US born in that decade be Re dubbed ‘The Kennedy-ites’.
I am far more a product of JFK’s election,( and For my younger cohorts his assasination and Roberts), than WW2.
My Parents had not even hit puberty during WW2. They were products of the Great Depression- Not the Roaring 20’s.
Our older siblings of the ‘50’s are also not ‘Boomers’ - they are products of Suburbanization- ‘Burbites’ is a far more accurate sociological description of the societal influences shaping their early lives.
Boomers have been getting their Medicare Coverage and Social security Checks for a few years now.
It’s the Burbites and the Kennedy -ites who now face the reality the word ‘Retirement’ is a now just a one word cruel joke.

Sometimes it is easier to say what you are not, than define exactly what you are.
I am not of the Generation which despised ‘entitlement’ Programs
I am not of the Generation who tried to dispense with Medicare or privatize Social Security.
I am not part of the generation which consistently voted for tax cuts for themselves instead of addressing our citizens needs.
I am not of the Generation which lived and breathed the adage ‘Greed Is Good’
I am not of the cohort group which committed ‘Generational Theft’
There is not just a political War nor a class War or even a religious war going on- There is a generational War - between those coming into power and those losing it.
Why are ‘seniors’ NOW worried about Medicare & SS- because they’re new enrollees. How can you tell their age? Two major senior issues have not surfaced in these Townhollers concerns- Long Term Care and Medicaid coverage for it. These Newbies don’t use it -so they don’t care about it.

I am the Generation which fought these ‘I got Mine’  every step of the way, led by the constant light of our Torch Bearer,Teddy.
I am a Kennedy-ite!!!

“Aks not what your country can do for you,but what you can do for your country”
Boomers what you can do- is sit down and shut up, You’ve screwed this nation up bad enough over the last few decades- Stand aside while we try and clean up this clusterfuck you’ve created!