Night-Gaunt, September 5 at 2:37 pm

If your opinion is correct then he is far too obtuse for me. Methinks this “Nanabozho” is more likely an ideologue, well versed in ways to steer discussions and make them useless. He proposes ridiculous right wing mythos and, when refuted ,steers a course away from the iceberg of his supposition’s destruction.

I simply cannot mix metaphors more outrageously than this!

Ozark Michael likes to toy with words and concepts, didn’t he just say that his opinion is in your opinions Ardee? Doesn’t that logically follow that he agrees with your statements so far? If so then he is just being his Trickster self. Tricksters are notorious for doing things for their own enjoyment, to get a reaction, to ‘mess with your head’ all in what they consider fun. In folklore the trickster was also an educator, steering you to some conclusion that only you needed to learn. but not always. They can also represent the upsetting of the established order. Just a thought.

For us we need to stop these wars and damn the generals whose only thought is to win whatever war they are sent to fight. It is we who must tell them to withdraw and pack it up and go.

OzarkMichael, September 4 at 7:55 am #

Do you have anything of relevance to add to this discourse? You have become a whining, sniveling little fellow of late in fact. Sad to see, say to say.

Yeah, what’s wrong with a little homoerotic hijincks?
It’s rough out there, and boys will be boys. Even
when it comes out that shortly after our invasion of
Afghanistan, in early 2002 when Blackwater first
arrived in Afghanistan, these same boys were
supervising Afghan warlord Dostum’s militia when they
murdered thousands of “Taliban” including women and
children by cramming them into unventilated shipping
containers and letting them suffocate, not doubt we
will be equally unperturbed. After all, war is hell,
right? 

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/57649.html

The idea of deciding another country’s gov’t is imperial hubris. We have used the Northern Alliance and been against them, we have used the Taliban (created by Pakistan’s ISI) then are against them. See a pattern? We have supported and then betrayed the Kurds twice and done the same with Iraq. Familiar pattern, anyone?

The imperial hubris is so ingrained that if you pointed it out to an advocate they would vehemently deny it as they continue to promote it. It would be the American way to show the benighted the path to enlightenment. With lethal military force and economic sanctions which is another form of killing.

We need to pull out all our troops and close over 878 military bases around the globe. More bases than the combined empires of Britain, Rome, France and Spain together. And they still aren’t finished yet! The Dominionists want dominion over all by hook or by crook. It is an evangelical mission from God to do it as they interpret the Bible to fit their own tastes.

People like James Dobson has helped to raise a whole generation on his sado-masocistic form of child rearing. No spoiled children in this Anti-Dr.Spock‘s methods! I think we can see it now with the lack of feeling both emotionally and the need to lash out with force to make behavorial realignments in others with pain. War is certainly a corollary to it. Hardened people will more likely go to war as needed and be especially brutal at it. Little regard for anyone. Just the right kind of people to populate an empire that is on the cusp of flowering with its deadly and superficially beautiful blooms of red flame and black smoke.

I am all for trade with all nations equally with our own citizens as roving ambassadors to the world to show them how it is done right. Maybe in a dim future, maybe never at this rate.

When in power the Taliban were harsh rulers, strict adherents to a fundamentalism to be sure, but they never attacked any nation. They claim to have had no knowledge of the activities of AlQaeda , who they harbored in accord with Islamic law…

Oh, well, if they harbored them in accord with Islamic law, then it practically makes them innocents. Poor little lambs.

ardee wants everyone to know that his post was only in his own opinion, its very important to him that we make that clear. Furthermore, ardee wants everyone to know that my post is only a reflection of ardee’s opinion, which just might be satirical, in which case my own opinion is hidden inside it.

What right does Marshall presume upon to believe he can decide what form of government a sovereign nation may choose?

The arrogance boggles the mind actually. The internal problems of a nation are exactly that, internal. While one may demonize the Taliban as one wishes they are a product of that region and the exploitative ways the West has used the people therein.

When in power the Taliban were harsh rulers, strict adherents to a fundamentalism to be sure, but they never attacked any nation. They claim to have had no knowledge of the activities of AlQaeda , who they harbored in accord with Islamic law, and one may believe or disbelieve as one chooses. But the assumption that we decide who governs another nation is a sick and sad way to view our foreign policies.

The logic of this article is rather self-defeating: The Afghan people failed to
prevent Taliban rule from 1991 to the US invasion, so the author’s answer is to
withdraw from the country and let the people of Afghanistan fail to prevent
Taliban rule a second time?

The author agrees that a Taliban run Afghanistan is a bad idea, then offers the
solution of vacating the country in the hopes it doesn’t happen again.

Who writes this stuff?

Así que, incluso no preguntar!

si se peude—yes it can be accomplished

Per no!—but we wont!

I see it works best when you don’t use all the writing, very judicious of you Ozark Michael like a defense attorney. But in so doing your case is lost as the information left out proves you wrong after all. How goes it getting that paint stain out from that broad brush?

Obama the dutiful company man carries out his bosses orders even to the detriment of himself. Oh that sword must hurt!

Tony Wicher said this: Well, Fox News ratings are plummeting. Other than the 20-30% of right-wing authoritarian proto-fascist trailer trash who watch it,

So i responded: “One wonders what news(besides Truthdig) that the left-wing authoritarian proto-communist pseudo-intellectuals watch?”

Night Gaunt, (a bit clueless) asks me: Another one of your leading questions that holds the seeds of its own answer. I can’t wait to see what kinds of polls you create. So they can’t even be real intellectuals even?...

Night Gaunt then proceeds to grill me some more, like a prosecutting attorney….

...who accidently proves the defendant innocent.

Night Guant—I dont watch cable news at all, BTW—I cant. My blood presure goes thru the roof. (I used to)

MSNBC is the “liberal” version of Fox, I dont think I have to explain why.
When Olbermann came out—he was funny. cuttin on Bush. Then Hardball got a hard-on over Obama and they cried aND did “worst persons in the world ” and just drummed up Obama and i got sick of it. I am not going to watch CNN or FUX,,,why watch MSNBC when there are so many other news outlets, (online, in print).I want news without pro-Dem Party analysis (or worse, Republican Party analysis, but only slightly)

Its neo-liberal because it doesnt expect you to think for yourself, sir! (j/k)
Bem Affleck “explored it” pretty well on SNL. Histrionics and melodrama included

Olbermann is indignant and his cat is innocent. Enjoy, its funny, even if you like Keith!

http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/countdown-with-keith-olbermann/805561/

Yes you can, Obama. You CAN get out of Afghanistan.
Don’t be afraid of those spooks! A majority of the
people are already against this war. You will lose your
whole base if you stay in there. Bring ‘em on home,
Barack. Fire those contractors. Spend the money on
health care. We need to clean house. Our national
security apparatus is riddled with corruption. The only
real danger comes from within.

“MSNBC seems to be a neo-liberal interpretation of FOX—both stations scream about emotional issues, give us their opinions and analyze nothing..Tony, what is the Google news you talk about? How do I get to it? (I honestly don’t know)”

KDelfi you wouldn’t say that if you actually watched it. Plenty of analysis and emotion too. Just not hysteria, and plenty of logical and rational and factual commentary unlike Fixed News and its lack thereof. Typical strawman attack. Both sides are mirror images of the other and neither are good for you. Simplistic and works for the ignorant only.

Where is MSNBC “neo-Liberal” that you see? It isn’t a monolith so there is room for it. GE owns is so one would expect it in some quarters but where exactly? Neo-liberal and Neo-conservative have much in common, they believe that they should rule over everyone else. Just in a few places do they differ as to how they go about doing so.

By OzarkMichael, August 31 at 12:58 pm #

“One wonders what news(besides Truthdig) that the
left-wing authoritarian proto-communist pseudo-
intellectuals watch?”

Another one of your leading questions that holds the seeds of its own answer. I can’t wait to see what kinds of polls you create. So they can’t even be real intellectuals even? Does that include your esteemed self? You are here after all and you paint with a wide brush so wear those old coveralls when you do. Any names as to what fit the parameters you give here? Can’t wait to see. Then you can show some proof of writing on that. If you will. It is quite an indictment, but not a conviction. You are so good at that.

“BTW-I’m not a left wing ideologue. I am a Socialist ideologue.”—KDelfi

What’s the difference here? Please enlighten me?

Obama is just the next in line of a series of president front men for the cabal that is eating the republic alive from the inside while using its vitality to grow and external empire. The worms in its brain and innards work to tear down and starve the old while feeding the fascist lineaments growing new sinews in its place. Like a person into a werewolf only permanently change into a savage. The job on us is at a point to where a variety of catalysts could trigger the final fall of the Republic. Financial ruin would be the ultimate preformed outcome they want.

Thanks, Tony…does it matter if I use yahoo mail? I will check it out.

I have trouble with the Pacifica podcasts on this old pc , but I do watch them sometimes on a laptop my sister gave me. Tony, you might think that they are left wing.

BTW-I’m not a left wing ideologue. i am a Socialist ideologue.

Tony Wicher,

A suggestion - if you want a good interviewer and program go to Pacifica Radio and listen to Background Briefing with Ian Masters.  One of the best!  You can get the podcast.

I don’t think Obama’s stupid, but certainly a jock and possibly a puppet.  His arrogance has been evident for a long time, as well as his duplicity.

Yes, good quote.

Hi Mary Ann McNeely,

That’s one cool quote.

Path to Power, Means of Ascent, Master of the Senate—LBJ was one vicious politician.  He set the standard for dirty tricks for the next 40 years. Bugging Nixon’s campaign headquarters was one slick trick.  Didn’t work out so well, though, when Nixon tried it for himself a few years later. 

Hopefully, you’re wrong about Obama. But we shall see.  It’s hard to tell at this point, at least for me anyway.

You take care.

Kesey

Hi Tony,

I didn’t take it personal.  Not a big deal. I was just making a political point:  One of the ways the powers that be have been able to screw up our foreign policy so royally is they’ve kept us bickering about our differences rather than joining together and fighting for what we have in common. 

I do agree with you that public opinion has moved the other way.  It just a bugger to change public opinion to public policy. 

But, yeah, no hard feelings.

Take care.

Kesey

By KDelphi, August 31 at 6:02 pm

I have not read any of Zakaria’s books. Politically,
he is middle-of-the-road, I suppose. That doesn’t
bother me, because I’m not a left-wing ideologue. He
does have a great show, with the best interviews and
discussion panels on TV.

As to Google Alerts, bring up the Google main screen.
You should see a row of options underlined near the
top: “Images Videos Maps News Shopping Mail more”
Click the “more” option. You will get a list of more
options. Click the last one that says “even more”.
You will then get another whole page of options. The
first one is “Alerts”. You can set as many alerts as
you want for any word or combination of words.

George W. Bush has Saddam Hussein’s pistol.  Obama has Lyndon Johnson’s duplicity and stupidity and Robert McNamara’s cold-blooded arrogance.

I cant bear any of the cable news, but calling other people trailer trash advances nothing.

Alot of people will only be able to live in trailers now because the duopoly gave all of the peoples’s money to the banksters.

Fareed Zakaria that wrote “Capitalist Manifesto”?

MSNBC seems to be a neo-liberal interpretation of FOX—both stations scream about emotional issues, give us their opinions and analyze nothing..Tony, what is the google news you talk about? How do I get to it? (I honestly dont know)

RE Kesey Seven, August 31 at 3:54 pm #

My whole family watches Fox News.  I love them all
dearly, too, even though I disagree with them on just
about everything.  Just because people disagree with
us doesn’t mean they’re trailer trash or whatever. It
just means they process things differently.
      x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x

Yo, Kesey,

You are absolutely right. Sorry to call your family
“trailer trash” for watching Fox. I’m sure they are
good people. I actually believe that most people are
good at heart, and the problem is usually ignorance.
Your family is ignorant simply because their heads
are full of misinformation they get from Fox News.
But when one has been taking in this misinformation
since childhood, it’s pretty hard to get through,
right?

By OzarkMichael, August 31 at 12:58 pm #

One wonders what news(besides Truthdig) that the
left-wing authoritarian proto-communist pseudo-
intellectuals watch?

Tony? Folktruther? Kesey?

  x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x

Actually, Google Alerts is my primary news source. I
have a whole bunch of them set and I get hundreds of
emails a day concerning topics I am interested in.
These alerts come from everywhere on Google, and are
not biased toward any particular end of the political
spectrum.

I will confess to watching MSNBC - Keith Olberman
and/or Rachel Maddow. Never Fox. But my favorite TV
show is Fareed Zakaria GPS, on CNN at 10 AM Pacific
on Sunday. It’s by far the most intelligent talk show
about global affairs on TV. It’s for real
intellectuals, not pseudo-ones.

Yo Tony,

My whole family watches Fox News.  I love them all dearly, too, even though I disagree with them on just about everything.  Just because people disagree with us doesn’t mean they’re trailer trash or whatever. It just means they process things differently.

Peace out, dude.

We’re all in this together. 

Kesey Seven

Tony..

I didnt say that they presented every view I have. If they did, there would be no need to watch. I also listed other sources.

But it beats the hell out of the ridiculouness of cable news.

So, MSNBC and FOX and CNN present these differing views form the coporate, all the time, eh? J/K.

It is true that true investigative reporting seems to be dead in the water, although Amy Goodman does some good stuff from time to time.

If you read the websites I gave, watch DN, bbc, etc, by the end of the day—you will be sick of “news”, will fast-forward through the last of the bbc and not have ANY patience left for cable news..

Hello OzarkMichael,

Thank you for responding to my post and thank you for the compliment, though my friends who know me well would be more likely to refer to me as a “whoreson obscene greasy tallow-catch.”

I don’t watch cable or network news. I find them all repugnant, the dog-like cocking of the head, the pronounced pauses, the feigned gravitas followed by feigned levity, the graphics, the commercials, the surreal avoidance of vulgarity, the Puritanical support of all vice laws while at the same time making money off every sexual innuendo that Britney Spears makes—it’s all equally repugnant. 

When CNN is on in a public place, I run screaming for the door. 

And in that respect I made a mistake in calling out Fox News because I think this is an issue where conservatives and progressives can find common ground.  We all dislike the television news media.  We would all be better off if the television news media were owned by many small corporations rather than by a few huge conglomerates. 

“Competition’s good for you.”

As for where I get my news, I often view that communist authoritarian Web site known as Yahoo   And I do often visit the New York Times Columnists section.  I also like to occasionally pick up a copy of Vanity Fair to get their take on things.  Rolling Stone is dear to my heart. And I peruse those strange things called history books just to see if anything like this has ever happened before. 

It has. 

You take care. 

Below is a nice little lyric on the topic we are discussing.

—

I make my living off the evening news
Just give me something-something I can use
People love it when you lose,
They love dirty laundry

Well, I coulda been an actor, but I wound up here
I just have to look good, I dont have to be clear
Come and whisper in my ear
Give us dirty laundry

Kick em when theyre up
Kick em when theyre down
Kick em when theyre up
Kick em when theyre down
Kick em when theyre up
Kick em when theyre down
Kick em when theyre up
Kick em all around

We got the bubble-headed-bleach-blonde who
Comes on at five
She can tell you bout the plane crash with a gleam
In her eye
Its interesting when people die-
Give us dirty laundry

Can we film the operation?
Is the head dead yet?
You know, the boys in the newsroom got a
Running bet
Get the widow on the set!
We need dirty laundry

You dont really need to find out whats going on
You dont really want to know just how far its gone
Just leave well enough alone
Eat your dirty laundry

Kick em when theyre up
Kick em when theyre down
Kick em when theyre up
Kick em when theyre down

Kick em when theyre up
Kick em when theyre down
Kick em when theyre stiff
Kick em all around

Dirty little secrets
Dirty little lies
We got our dirty little fingers in everybodys pie
We love to cut you down to size
We love dirty laundry

We can do the innuendo
We can dance and sing
When its said and done we havent told you a thing
We all know that crap is king
Give us dirty laundry!

—Don Henley

You’re a Dreamer, Tony (but a good predicter).  The Dem Hope is as delusive as the Gop Faith.

Also I’m a post-marxist (not a marxist poster.)  It is evident now that what followed classical capitalism is not socialism but governmental capitalism, espoused in its purest form by China. 
And applied to the world, not just to the West.

Classical marxism was buttrressed by Western values, like scientific rationalism.  It is evident that people re moved by emotional truths as espoused by the psychologist Drew Westan in THE POLITICAL BRAIN.  A Democrat, you’d like him.

Re KDelphi, August 31 at 2:32 pm

Democracy Now is no great shakes either. Try asking
them to have a serious 9/11 truth advocate such as
Richard Gage, the architect who heads Architects and
Engineers for 9/11 Truth (ae911truth.org) or David Ray
Griffin, a world-class scholar, on for an in-depth
interview.

Anyone who watches cable news for their main source of information, will be woefully misinformed.

I watch Democracy Now every night, Real News Network online, some Sociaist sites (yes they are planning on killing all Dems) BBC some nights and pbs sometimes.(I knew someone would say “well where do yu get news” if I didnt say it)

I can watch FOX, MSNBC or CNN for about 5 min before I get so digusted I have to switch it.

Folktruther has it right here:
So in the American politicl system, it doesn’t much matter what the people currently think; it matters what the rich think.  Because the rich will give money to the candidates who will put tv spots that will determine what the population emotionally thinks at the time of the voting.  Representative Democracy is simply a guise for plutocracy, with the people choosing who smiles best, who is most Sincere, etc based on public relations.

Tony Wicher said: Well, Fox News ratings are plummeting.Other than the 20-30% of right-wing authoritarian proto-fascist trailer trash who watch it, I think the current of public opinion is moving the other way.

One wonders what news(besides Truthdig) that the left-wing authoritarian proto-communist pseudo-intellectuals watch?

Tony? Folktruther? Kesey?

Re Kesey

Well, Fox News ratings are plummeting. Other than the
20-30% of right-wing authoritarian proto-fascist
trailer trash who watch it, I think the current of
public opinion is moving the other way.

Hi tahitifp,

I share your sentiments. 

But I do think Obama has a lot of guts.  I think the last guy to sit in the White House who was as tough as Obama went by the name of Teddy, a guy who, as president, waded naked across icy rivers, dragging shriveled and shivering diplomats in tow.

Make no mistake. Obama has some stones. He’s just careful where and when he flings them, which is not necessarily a bad thing.   

I"m just thinking it never occurred to him that he could break up the media, but as soon as he reads my post, he’ll jump right on it. 

~<|:>)

Kesey Seven

Hello Tony Wicher,

Regarding your statement:  “But don’t you think people are pretty tired of war, skeptical of the reasons given for it by their government, and more concerned with economic problems at home?” 

Yes.  I think the people are.  I think the vast majority of Americans are sick of this war that’s lasted for over 60 years. 

But the devil is in the details.  If we pull out of Iraq promptly and completely, it’s likely Iran will be ruling the place in a decade or less.  Something similar applies to Afghanistan: If we leave right now, the Taliban or some reasonable facsimile thereof will be ruling the place in short order. 

The television media would then hang Obama and the Democratic Party by their collective something or others.

But make no mistake:  It’s the media who are the nuts. 

We have to make peace with the Muslim, Arab, and Persian worlds. There is no other choice.  To do that our leaders must behave like adults.

But the television media caters to children—remember that.  The common denominator that gets more consideration than other when producers decide what to air is:  Is this appropriate for children?  Next consideration:  What will adults who read below a high school level think?  Final: What will advertisers think? 

This is why the corporate television media needs to be broken up into many small companies that only own a single media outlet.  Television news is not simply covering the news; it’s infantilizing our presidential elections, our domestic policy, and our foreign policy. 

Smaller companies would behave more responsibly. They always do. They would provide more points of view. And they would not swarm like flies at the first scent of political excrement. 

Overall, I share your hope. But it will be ineffably difficult for President Obama to effect any change while Rupert Murdoch owns both Fox News and The Wall Street Journal.

Break up the corporations that own the television news media.

Pass it on. 

—Kesey Seven

A very cynical public would do us well right now.

Re Kesey Seven, August 30 at 2:47 pm #
I think Folktruther may be on to something.  People
are against the war right up to the point when it
comes to making a change.

Then the television news media steps in, the
advertisements begin, the discussions begin, the
pseudo debates begin, and, sigh, nothing happens.

    x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x

Kesey,

But don’t you think people are pretty tired of war,
skeptical of the reasons given for it by their
government, and more concerned with economic problems
at home? I think it will not be sufficient to
saturate the media with propaganda this time, without
engineering another 9/11. But the force for perpetual
war, the military-industrial complex which gains in
power and wealth from war, was in full control of the
government under the Bush administration. I nourish
the hope that it will be harder to get away with it
under a Democratic administration. No doubt
Folktruther will call me a dreamer for saying this.

Rodger, ROFLMAO!

Howard Dean suggested that the media should be broken up…look what happened to him.  He also suggested an even-handed approach to the Israel Palestine horror.

Yes, Obama could start with breaking up the media, but I don’t think he has the will nor the guts.

I think he should start with firing Rahm, Sibelius (and appointing Howard) and most of the military top brass.

Or..order the troops home ASAP, and start a funding program for schools and hospitals over there.

It would appear that corporations and the MIC run the world now.

Oops. Regarding “See Notes” in my post below, here are the notes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanta

There was the same transfer of French troups from Indochina(Vietnam)to Algeria as there is now the transfer of US troups from Iraq to Afghanistan.
However, I think Obama’s error is not just in bogging down in Afghanistan, but in the appointments to his cabinet from day one.  What can be expected from such policy advisors on war, finance or healthcare when they all come from the same crew that threw the ship on the rocks. Obama chose them so these must be his policies. 
Sad, but facts and acts don’t lie even when heavily spun by spin masters.

It’s interesting that we’re nicking around the edges here. 

Want my vote?  Here it is. Pull out of Afghanistan. Pull out of Iraq.

But if that’s all we do, nothing will change. I stand with people who say we never stopped the war we joined in 1941.  And I recognize the truth when people say, no, World War I never ended.  And it is eerie to realize that World War I was just an extension of wars that have been fought for thousands of years. 

But 1941 seems like a clear delineation. It was the first war during which massive automated weapons were produced assembly line fashion at the same time civilians were being slaughtered assembly line fashion. 

It was also unique in the sense that American corporations knew civilians were being slaughtered in Europe and yet kept investing in and selling goods to the Nazi empire (see Notes below). A conservative estimate is six million Jews and others (e.g., homosexuals, the disabled) died in Nazi concentration camps.

Likewise, a conservative estimate is that twelve million Russians died during World War II. 

We are still suffering from those atrocities. The Soviet Union went crazy after the war, reveling in Stalin’s paranoia that justified the imprisonment, banishment, and slaughter of dissidents, as well as the takeover of Eastern Europe that drove the West nuts for several decades. 

The United States blind financial support of Israeli policies have resulted in another set of problems. 

Add to the mix the general problems of other countries in the Middle East: Pakistan vs. India; the rich oilmen running Saudi Arabia; the fundamentalist Muslims running Pakistani agencies from the colonel level on down; and of course US supplied training, guns, and sabotage—add all that together and you got yourself a permanent state of war for the United States springing right out 1941.

The nuclear threat, that’s icing on the cake.  The layers of secrecy that allow presidents to carry out foreign policy without consulting voters beforehand—those are the crunchy sweet sprinkles on the icing. A confederacy of dunces that reads at an eighth grade level, that’s the gooey filling in the middle.

Point: Obama could pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq right now and nothing would change politically. America would still be dedicating its economy to the war machine. The nuclear threat would still be there.

The epiphany in all this is that we can longer afford to fight wars.  Our leaders only got half that point in 1945.

We almost got it but we didn’t. 

The lesson we took away was: We must let other folks do the fighting for us, deny involvement as long as possible, and only deploy American troops when necessary.  We must fight wars when corporations are threatened. We must fight wars to protect our economy even when our economy travels down unsustainable highways. 

The lessons we learned were the wrong ones.  But for over half a century the intellectuals who determine our foreign and domestic policy believed these fallacies. 

Now the truth is catching up to us. Our economy can no longer afford to support both its population and its war machine.  The ecosystem can no longer take the degradation we heap on it.

Some solutions: 

Stop selling weapons.

Negotiate with our allies to stop selling weapons.

Educate the American public. 

Break up the corporate television news media. 

Make covert operations the exception and not the rule for conducing foreign policy.

Build sustainable cities.

Admit mistakes, make peace.

Either do away with the automobile or make it electric.

There is no doubt President Obama understands the problems and recognizes the solutions. But he like anyone else faces the daunting question: Where to start? 

Start with something simple, Mr. President:  Break up the corporate television news media. Once you break up the war machine’s propaganda machine, you’ll be able to start making incremental change.

The age of war must end.

I think Folktruther may be on to something.  People are against the war right up to the point when it comes to making a change.

Then the television news media steps in, the advertisements begin, the discussions begin, the pseudo debates begin, and, sigh, nothing happens.

It’s the same for the environment, health care, education—add your progressive cause here.

People want change right up to the point where the media barrage begins, and then there is no filter on the BS. As long as whomever is staging the farce or spewing the nonsense comes from an affluent background and is a Democrate or a Republican, lies are not only acceptable but expected. 

To the media, putting two liars in front of a microphone somehow renders the truth. 

Consider the lies the media let get out in last few decades:

They’ll pull the plug on grandma.

There’s no way to prove humans are harming the atmosphere. 

Protecting the environment means killing jobs. 

Al Gore invented the Internet. 

George Bush will pick the right advisers and everything will be alright.

The War on Drugs is for the best. 

Dictators are good as long as they do what we want.

Dictators are bad when they don’t do what we want.

History does not exist and we therefore have no way of knowing if rolling back economic regulations will be harmful.

Facts are an abstraction. Everything is subjective. The concept of truths being “self-evident” is a fallacy. 

Never question a person’s religious beliefs even when those beliefs degrade to a point of mere superstition and have more in common with fascism than any form of spiritual benevolence. 

The above are the mantras of television news media. They change with time.  But they stay the same.  They publish and report the words of liars and then are shocked when those lies persist for decades or when they totally and completely screw up our country and the world.

No politician in any party will be able candidly discuss our nation’s problems and legitimate solutions until the television news corporations are broken up into smaller companies.

At least then we will be able to start the process of making incremental changes.

Why is there no alternative to American victory in what the president calls “AfPak”?

simple.

until israel is secured from sea level rise, there will be no victory… until israel is secured, america must protect israel… america can protect israel so long as america maintains the most powerful military in the world…

america will remain the most powerful military in the world so long as it controls energy.

neocons are immoral and to them, “might makes right”...  neocons will use their might to control the resource that makes them mighty…

and if “controlling the resource” means depriving rivals of access to that resource, so be it, which is why continual turmoil in afpak is necessary to prevent pipelines through pakistan to china.

...and then there’s pakistan’s nukes.

as long is america is, in reality, “israeli america”, no victory is possible without securing israel’s role as hegemon in the middle east.

nevermind that israel was such a bad idea in the first place that all jews are now expected to abandon their morals in defense of israel.

nevermind that americans are expected to abandon their morals in defense of israeli america, which is, in turn, dedicated to preserving a bad idea…

.

...or maybe israel and israelis americans are being set up to take the fall for the disintegration of america.

End the war now! Send your laptop to the middle east
and get the Iraqis and Afgans hooked on Truthdig. They
will become so diverse in their opinions and busy
posting clever messages they will spend all their time
in their tents and we can overcome them easily.

ChaoticGood, August 30 at 1:35 am #

It is a political expediency to have our troops in Afganistan.  Obama is a smart person who understands that Afganistan cannot be “won” by any conventional sense of the word.

Are you quite certain of this opinion of our President? It certainly paints a dark picture of his morality and lack of honesty if true.

Can they become an uneasy ally of the USA, well perhaps, if we continue to buy their “favors” with taxpayer dollars.  That ally will allow us to have bases close to the real action, that everyone knows is Pakistan.

To be precise, you think, I believe,that the government of that benighted nation can be bought, as continuing to kill its people seems no way to win their loyalty. One might surmise that, eventually, all the money, all the deaths , all the absurdities that war entails will combine and the people will throw out their puppet leaders. What will remain is simply hatred of the USA.

Pakistan is the nuclear armed powderkeg of the Middle East, not Iran.  Iran is just a pompous imposter of their past glories, but Pakistan is stark, raving, mad.

A state inferred to be insane, a concept I cannot swallow. Perhaps the leaders are unbalanced, perhaps the causes and the bloodshed are not that of sanity, but perhaps you mistake cultural uniqueness as insanity. Certainly the combination of nuclear weapons in proximity to extremism gives one pause, and reason to feel insecure. But murdering a significant portion of the populace seems a silly way to ensure peace.

It is a political expediency to have our troops in Afganistan.  Obama is a smart person who understands that Afganistan cannot be “won” by any conventional sense of the word.

Can they become an uneasy ally of the USA, well perhaps, if we continue to buy their “favors” with taxpayer dollars.  That ally will allow us to have bases close to the real action, that everyone knows is Pakistan.

Pakistan is the nuclear armed powderkeg of the Middle East, not Iran.  Iran is just a pompous imposter of their past glories, but Pakistan is stark, raving, mad.

We have to be in Afganistan, but we are not supposed to know the real reasons why we are there.  Some sham about Taliban and Poppies are the reasons we are fed.  The real problem is India and Pakistan, just like it has been since 1947.

Usama bin Laden was the creation of the CIA and was used to expel the Russians, which led to the dissolution of the India/Russian military pact.

Nobody cares a “rats ass” about Afganistan. It is just the killing ground in the India/Pakistan drama.

By OzarkMichael, August 29 at 9:15 pm #

“Dont you just love the mutual applause that real
intellectuals give to each other?”
——————————————————————
OZ,

Nothing wrong with it, if it’s deserved. Hm, I don’t
remember applauding anything you have ever said, but
keep trying. You may yet say something intelligent!

Tony Wicher: I in tune with your well-stated orthodox Marxist understanding of the way bourgeois democracy works.

Dont you just love the mutual applause that real intellectuals give to each other?

Re Folktruther, August 29 at 10:09 pm

I in tune with your well-stated orthodox Marxist
understanding of the way bourgeois democracy works.
Still, the ability of the rich and powerful to
manipulate public opinion is not unlimited. I detect
a lot of public skepticism with Afghanistan. I think
if nothing else Obama is very sensitive to public
opinion, and if he cannot sell the public on this
war, he will find a way to back out.

When those who want perpetual war see this happening, 
if they think they can get away with it they will
engineer another “terrorist attack” like 9/11. But it
may be harder to get away with it under a Democratic
administration.

psmith is most probably closest to the mark, when with the comment ” JFK and Dallas 11/22/63”. While the republic is kept in confusion by the unspeakable emanating from the forever war machine, the new prince fears for his life and the control of the state he has gained.

The prince has neither the people nor the soldiers to rely on.He has shown only the vices of the past prince and called them virtues. As we watch ,the fortunate opportunity is squandered for the sake of political opportunity.

If the overwhelming majority of Dems are against escalating the AFpak war, how could it be to Obama’s electoral interest to escalate it?

Does this really puzzle you,FT. The way to gain or regain an election victory is by catering to those who provide the ever increasing supplies of money necessary to woo an electorate with propaganda. You really still believe that elections are won with agendas? Or do you deny that so many Americans are opposed to this ever escalating war?

Emma, thank you for your comment.  It illustrates a common puzzlement of the American people about the US electoral process.  If the overwhelming majority of Dems are against escalating the AFpak war, how could it be to Obama’s electoral interest to escalate it?

Most Americans, perhaps 30to 40%, would vote for their party no matter what issues they espouse, even if they disagree. The partisans are the most intersted, involved and knowlegeable of the electorate. 

The rest of the voters are influenced emotionally by tv advertisements that run for a few seconds repeatedly. they are very expensive, requiring a lot of money.  The small rich class that gives a lot of mony through their lobbiests, etc, also own and adevertise in the media, which supports the interests of the rich ruling class.

So in the American politicl system, it doesn’t much matter what the people currently think; it matters what the rich think.  Because the rich will give money to the candidates who will put tv spots that will determine what the population emotionally thinks at the time of the voting.  Representative Democracy is simply a guise for plutocracy, with the people choosing who smiles best, who is most Sincere, etc based on public relations.

Of course the learned and mass media do not tell you this because it would de-legitiamte not only the American political system, but the entire Western tradition.  The way the population is deluded most successfuly historically is by what the media, including the Progressive media, does NOT say.

The rich ruling class favors American imperialism, and put in Obama to promote it.  If he withdraws from Afpak, they won’t like it.  So he has to continue.  But the American population may get tired of the killing, torturing and raping as well, as they did in the Vietnam war.  So its a lose-lose which Obama is stuck with, having inherited it from Bush. 

He is betting on the rich, as he is in every other issue.  He hopes other issues will dominate and that Dems and indendants will vote for him anyway, as The Lesser Evil, since the Gops will put up the usual right wing dingbat. 

Whether he wins or not remains to be seen.  But I can tell you who will lose: the American and Afghan people. As we most often do.  This is bourgeis Democracy in action.

Afghanistan folly.

Alexander found out.

Rudyard Kipling wrote:
“When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains, And the women come out to cut up what remains, Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains An’ go to your Gawd like a soldier”.

The Russians just got over a bad insurgent war (thanks alot to the U.S).

I would think Obama would have learned more from past and recent histories about invading armies in Afghanistan.

As a rich white country we are at a loss to understand Afghanistan, much less help it. Not only that, we overthrew the majority Pashtuns and installed their hated enemy, the minority Tajiks. “We create our own reality,” the mantra of the Bush team is now being used by the Obama team. “We put the Tajiks in, they rule, screw the Pashtuns,” our wise men say. We create our own reality. Except the Pashtuns don’t like our reality; they like their own reality.

Actually we’re there to control the oil and gas routes—screw the Pashtuns, the Tajiks and anyone else who stands in our way. Famous last words.

My prediction:  No good PO, no second term, especially if the wars continue.

ardee:  Indeed, how could he have picked his advisors in the first place and retained the bush military men?

He could have made history today if he had said that in Teddy’s name, health care would be passed or he’d veto the bill.  He again took the safe route to appease the repugs, so they wouldn’t accuse him of using Ted’s death politically.  He could have said something like, “Becuz of Ted, I am now prez and in his honor, and to thank him, I’ll make sure we have a good PO or medicare for all…in his name.” 

He keeps blowing his chance to be a great prez with a good legacy.

Fire Rahm for starters!

arde—No, he will be two terms, but the GOP will take back the Senate in 2010 and he will use that as an excuse to do even less than he is doing now—-in a positive direction, anyway…I cant figure out why neo-cons are just thrilled with him! Stealth Bush.

That is my personal prediction as Nostradumbass..

Hardly that KD but funny.

It is entirely possible that your prediction will come true as enumerated. American politics shows a cycle or revolving door wherein both parties move in and out of the majority with regularity.

The difference, I think, is the increasing polarization we see in today’s politics, emphasized in fact by the tragic death of the person most capable of working across the aisle. The amount and unreality of right wing propaganda regarding simply everything Obama attempts, coupled with a stark lack of ability from either the White House or the Democratic Congress to refute even the inanities of “death panels, citizenship and socialism” make a one term President possible…We shall see.

I believe further that Obama may re-work his cabinet and his circle of advisers when the polls continue to show his sagging numbers. This might make my prophesy somewhat moot. How can he stick with these clowns, how indeed could he pick them to begin with?

Emma, with so much opposition to the war, it appears Obama is shooting himself in his own foot.  It’s like voting against your own best interests.

Why would he do that?  He’s not stupid.  Is he so naive and nervous about governing that he listens only to the wrong people, many of whom worked under bush?

Very puzzling.  He also seems to act as though passing a good PO or even single payer would cost him in 2012.  I think it’s the opposite.

He’s not following the will of the people. The question is:  Will the Obamabots stick with him?  I think he’s losing the youth vote as we speak since I think they were star-struck and now realized we’re still mired in expanded wars.  Will they turn out for him again?  I don’t think so.

Folktruther – “The Afpak war is about Obama winning reelection, just as the Vietnam War was about Johnson winning reelection.”

– Opposition to the Vietnam War caused Johnson to withdraw from his presidential campaign and not seek re-election.

Severed2009 – “I can think of 2 reasons to stay in Afghanistan.
1) the same reason that trapped LBJ in Vietnam—pulling out would give the
Republicans a tremendous election issue as long as the majority of Americans
accepted or could be sold the need to defend ourselves militarily against our
ideological adversaries.”

—Vietnam drove LBJ out of the election of 1968 and Nixon, who won, ran on a promise of ending the unpopular war.

A majority of Americans oppose the war in Afghanistan and oppose increasing the number of troops there.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/19/AR2009081903066.html

An even greater percentage – some 70 to 80 percent—of Democrats opposes the war and opposes sending in more troops. Those numbers would seem to contradict the idea that continuing, even expanding, the war and increasing troop levels, as Obama is doing, is necessary to get re-elected. In fact, the level of opposition to the war makes it seem foolish that anyone who wanted to be re-elected would do what Obama is doing.

When Vince Lombardi’s quote “there is no substitute for victory” is resurrected and applied to war is a sign of desperation, lack of imagination, ignorance and absurd.

Reminds me of the book Imperial Hubris, which discusses how American politicians don’t want to make hard choices.

They don’t want to declare peace.
They don’t want to fight wars to win them. 

To declare peace and pursue it fruitfully they would have to be candid, something like:

You know, guys, when we formed our foreign policies in the 1940s and 1950s for the next half a century, we were an incredibly racist country. And we regarded Arabs with the same disdain we regarded African Americans, which is to say we didn’t think you deserved basic human rights or consideration.

That’s heavy.

And we apologize.  And we want to stop messing with your culture, we want to stop buying your oil, we want to stop selling you guns. And instead we want to invest in your infrastructure and your people.

It’s hard for politicians to make that choice because our economy is designed to consume and overwhelm existing cultures.  So a president of the United States who made such a statement would have to be confident he could not only fulfill the technicalities of such a promise but also change the mindset and economic system of the country. 

That’s heavy, too.

But it’s the only choice that will get us an earnest seat at the negotiating table for peace. 

As for war, if you’re going to make war. Make war. Stop screwing around. Enough of this nonsense of:

arming violent sociopath number one;
arming violent sociopath number two;
paying violent sociopath number one to fight violent sociopath number two.  No. 

Simple rules instead.  Anyone with a gun has to give up the gun.  When we leave, no one in this country will have a gun. And we will never sell you a gun again. 

Then you seal the borders and you disarm the country. You fight a war.

But we don’t do that either.  We fight nightmarish “blow up half that bridge” scenarios that put our soldiers in the hellish position of attempting to determine who the friendlies are carrying the guns.

Hard choices. Win the war or make peace. As we stand now, we don’t seem to be making the choices. We deny there is a possibility for peace. We train, arm and pay other people to fight our wars. We win all the battles but lose the wars. 

—

Notes:

“Imperial Hubris: Why the West is Losing the War on Terror (Brassey’s, 2004; ISBN 1-57488-849-8) is a book originally published anonymously, but later revealed to have been authored by Michael Scheuer, a CIA veteran with 22 years service, who ran the Counterterrorist Center’s bin Laden station from 1996 to 1999.” 

        —Wikipedia

“On one side of Afghanistan we have a would-be nuclear power with an unpopular fundamentalist Islamic government, that might be tempted into
foreign adventures to distract its population”—Severed2009

Afghanistan isn’t even a country really. Just a multitude of fiefdoms under one flag. It can barely feed its people and there is no hint of nuclear capacity unless they simply buy bombs with their opium money. I have never seen such an assessment of Afghanistan. It better fits Iran which is still under threat from the USA and especially Israel. They have political unrest and may use some foreign adventure to quell the growing dissent.

Remember too the Soviets were there from 1979-1989 and used most everything against them. I don’t know if they ever used chemical or biological weapons but our country will. We won’t have 100,000-150,000 soldiers in that pseudo-country any time soon as the Russians had. But escalation is stupid without some underlying reason we aren’t privy to.

“Dreyfuss summarizes the speakers’ shared views: 1. “Significant escalation” is essential “to avoid utter defeat.” 2. If “tens of thousands” of new troops were sent to Afghanistan, it would be impossible to know whether this reinforcement changed anything until another 18 months had elapsed. 3. Even if the U.S. “turns the tide,” no “significant drawdown” of American troops could occur for at least another five years.

However, the most dramatic unanimous opinion of the four experts was this one: “There is no alternative to victory.”

Jesus Christ on crutches!! how can we accept this bullshit again?!

“So Obama wants to delay this Afpak withdrawal until after the next presidental election. To avoid losing.  That is the only reason for the enormous suffering of the Afghan people, and the waste of US money and blood.  It is completely senseless otherwise, but the American people, including Progressives,  are too clueless and subservientto to demand US withdrawal now. So far. “

Folktruther has it right. I think that Obama, himself, also now has a personal stake in not being called a “coward”, which is something he would probably believe…even Axelrod, “worried” that he “takes criticism too personally”—a good worry, but too late!
So does NorCalNative—as long as war is a profit-making venture for Capitalists, it will continue. Same with social services, NAFTA, CAFTA, World bank, IMF, etc.

arde—No, he will be two terms, but the GOP will take back the Senate in 2010 and he will use that as an excuse to do even less than he is doing now—-in a positive direction, anyway…I cant figure out why neo-cons are just thrilled with him! Stealth Bush.

That is my personal prediction as Nostradumbass..

I can think of 2 reasons to stay in Afghanistan.
1) the same reason that trapped LBJ in Vietnam—pulling out would give the
Republicans a tremendous election issue as long as the majority of Americans
accepted or could be sold the need to defend ourselves militarily against our
ideological adversaries.
2) Geopolitical
On one side of Afghanistan we have a would-be nuclear power with an
unpopular fundamentalist Islamic government, that might be tempted into
foreign adventures to distract its population
On the other side, we have an actual nuclear almost failed state with a
fundamentalist Islamic secret police and an unresolved border dispute and
great hatred and fear of the largest democracy in the world. 

It is worth discussing whether what might happen if we leave would be worse
than staying there.  The Domino Theory turned out to be incorrect, so maybe I
am being a nervous nellie and buying our standard thinking.  But I see a
difference between wanting to dominate the world and wanting to have some
input into situations that could have tremendous effects on us before these
effects get so damaging that we have to confront them.

As I see it, Obama would not get out of AF-PAK even after and if he wins..the excuse will be that then the repugs can call the dems chicken sh**s and win the presidency in 2016.  The dems can never end wars; they’re too frightened of losing power. And the repugs love wars and that’s how they re-gain power.

Lose/lose for us.

The American people have to end the wars, either with votes or with massive marches and write-ins.  To do that, the American psyche has to change from one of superiority and entitlement to that of compassion and common sense.

??/2012

Night-Gaunt- ‘Defeatist’ is also the term the left uses to oppose the militrarism of its own power system at war.  The American people have been taught to be afraid of words- afraid to call government funding of medical treatment Socialized Medicine- so it is natural to be afraid of this term as well.  When Americans call for the withdrawal of US troops from Iraq and and Afpak, they are calling for the military defeat of the US.  But we are too chickenshit not only to say so, but to think in these terms.

The Bushites orignially invaded Afghanistan to put in a pipeline to haul mid Asia oil and gas from the Caspian to the Arabian sea. This idea is long dead.  Then the idea was to invade Iraq, Iran and threaten N Korea, as the military exercise in 2006 was intended to do.  This plan, the basis of the War on Terrorism, has been utterly disastrous for US power, decreasing US world power drastically in a few years.

The reason to keep fighting now in the AFpak war is strategic and political.  When the US is defeated and withdraws, as the Russians did, the same political threats are posed politially.  Since the US power system is now so politically and morally depraved, its only strength is raw oppressive power, and when that is weakened, opposition is encouraged.
As occured in the Soviet Union and East Europe.

So Obama wants to delay this Afpak withdrawal until after the next presidental election. To avoid losing.  That is the only reason for the enormous suffering of the Afghan people, and the waste of US money and blood.  It is completely senseless otherwise, but the American people, including Progressives,  are too clueless and subservientto to demand US withdrawal now. So far.

Permanent war is God’s gift to Capitalists.

Yes bring them home. But that is called “defeatist” by those who don’t believe in retreat. Like those two love/hate birds Stalin & Hitler who in both cases made sure that no one retreated and lived. We have a similar situation only most of our soldiers actually go along with it without being forced to stay!
One up for the pseudo-republic we have, quasi in appearance but lacking in the essential ‘guts’ of one. A few do refuse or go AWOL but it is little publicized except for those that are made examples of.

I cannot fathom why the interest in Afghanistan at this time. It seems a wasted effort unless they plan on using small nukes to root out some of the mujahadeen in the foot hills and mountains and for what? I don’t see any minerals or other resources that could be taken, not a strategic reason either. For that they could just build bases on the boarder with Pakistan. So for me it is puzzling.

Lost Hills and ardee

You echo my sentiments.  I find Obama to be either very weak, very naive or very controlled by the corps.  Doesn’t matter which.

With the death of Teddy, he has the perfect opportunity to insist on a bill that honors Teddy’s memory.  It wouldn’t even get his own hands dirty or commit himself, which he hates doing.

I shuddered when asked what his reaction would be if he won and got to sit in the Oval Office. His answer, “Hey, this is cool.” 

He doesn’t appear to have a clue and that’s why he hired all the tired, old and mostly ineffective people who lack innovation and imagination.  MOTS only worse.  Duncan really concerns me with his charter schools.  So does Vilsack with his support of GMOs.

We need real hope and change.  That Weiner rep from NY is promising and so is Feingold.

I believe that Indies comprise 40% of the voting public.  We need a third choice.

He doesn’t need a vacation, and he doesn’t need to read anything. He needs to bring the troops home. Now.

OzarkMichael, August 27 at 7:32 pm

Nice e.e.cummings impersonation.

But there is a glaring point to all of this, a couple in fact. Firstly, the actions of those who participated in the events of 9/11 engaged in a criminal action. This should have been a police matter from day one. That it was not is a testiment to a President, #43, whose ratings were in the toilet and who seized upon this as a way to gain popularity, re-election and move an agenda through an overly patriotic Congress and a nation mesmerized by war.

Secondly, Barack Obama is a tool of his unreasoning belief in a bi-partisan climate that exists only in his own mind. When he had an overwhelming mandate, when his party controlled both Houses of Congress, when he could have pushed an agenda, any agenda, and had it railroaded through, he has so far failed miserably to achieve a goddamned thing.

Will Barack Obama be a one term President? Will he be a catalyst for the growth of third party politics? Will he be a chief reason for the re-emergence of the GOP? Will he ever stand up and act like the man he was supposed to be?

On 9/11 the USA was defeated by 19 hijackers, a defeat that will eventually be heralded as the greatest defeat in the history of the the world.The U.S. military was defeated by 3 of the 4 planes hijacked. This occurred under the watch of the tough guy Repubicans, Bush, Cheney, Rummy and their NEOCON colleagues. Cheney’s ego is bruised and he is so deranged psychologically that he want to perpetrate his Hitlerian posturing of the USA to continue indefinitely. Now the difference between Hitler and Cheney is that Hitler wasn’t a coward, he was in the WW1 trenches and battled in the streets of Germany while Cheney cowered from any engagement other than with his mouth.Hitler and his henchmen Goebbels, Himmler, Goering were 1st rate psycho’s which is what took to dupe the German people, 1st rate psycho’s. Cheney is a 10th rate psycho as are his henchmen Beck, Limbaugh, O’reilly, the 9 Repubican senators who have threatened America with terrorist violence they are all 10th rate psycho’s. It’s a sad commentary the American people being duped by 10th rate psycho’s. At least Germany had the benefit of 1st rate psycho’s.

When you have a mercenary professional army, you must provide something for them to do.

Isn’t this obvious?

Add to this, the fact that America can still make the best weapons in the world and you have a “perfect” business model.  It is a Capitalists “wet dream”.

THE BUSINESS PLAN:

So lets start wars, sell to both sides and watch the fun.  Then bring in some sacrificial soldiers and have them die gloriously.  Make sure that their mission is “muddy” and that their body armor is not “too good” and that will do it. 

Once enough die, then the military “mind” will take over and demand that we kill more soldiers to “justify” the deaths of the soldiers already dead.  Nice formula, works every time.  In fact, it works so well that most soldiers will actually thank you for the opportunity to “serve” the country.

Even today, if you visit any VFW post you will hear all about how if we had just let the soldiers fight “properly” we not have lost in Vietnam.  And to think that these old soldiers still have the “military” mind in operation after all these years. It is necessary for them to have to feel something honorable about a war that was a complete sham.  It is just too horrible a thought that their lives were “used up” by an uncaring American military/industrial complex.

It is the same eternal military mindset that drives most of the silly “war on terror” conflicts that we are now in the middle of.

Afganistan is unwinnable, and that’s why we are there.  It is a perfect place to have low-level casualties so we can keep our praetorian, hessian army occupied.

Our big mistake, just like Rome, we decided to have a professional army.  It is our undoing.

NATIONALSOZIALISMUS

After Freedom Fries, Birthers, Teabaggers, Health Care Debate Brownshirts, ‘Iman a Merikan, Iman a Merikan - F___ All the French, Arabs, Illegal Aliens’ when do we get to ‘Niggers and Jews is next’, along with Lebensraum and the Furherprincip?

Cheney - Our Dear Leader - His Inspiration - ‘Ein reich, ein volk, ein fuhrer’ - 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uV71QNHnNMQ

Why does Pfaff never mention the Elephant in the room? The fascism of the right. Corporate socialism, aka fascism. What these men represent is National Socialism. Impolite? Unmentionable? Someone better wake up and smell the stinking fish. It will be a lot more than ‘impolite’ if the right tries a rerun of JFK in Dallas and trigger a Freedom Fries (French) Revolution with the Aristos losing their heads to Madame la Guillotine in huge numbers.

Chris Rock - I ain’t scared of Al-Qaeda ... I’m scared of Al-Cracker.”  Chris Rock on the War of Terror -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auqRgzuLaK8#t=01m20s

If it wasn’t so stupid and tragic it would be hilarious. -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialism

THE OTHER NAZIS

The time is coming for Cheney to make the ultimate sacrifice. For the good of the party. The same sacrifice his inspirer made. Bye-bye Cheney.  ‘Ein reich, ein volk, ein fuhrer’ to the end? Jolly Good. Keep it up. Don’t let the trapdoor hit your knees on the way out. - Nuremberg Executions of Nazi Leaders for ‘Crimes Against Humanity.’ -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSJcXPCxlzI

Were you always a despicable little man, or was it the ‘pumphead’? - 

http://heartdisease.about.com/cs/bypasssurgery/a/pumphead.htm

http://www.doctorzebra.com/prez/a_cheney.htm

Oh well, too late now—no longer relevant—though the trick-cyclists would be interested. How ironic that you now deserve what you gave your nemesis. Saddam Hussein meets _his_ fate. -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfJrZSRj-fE

And ‘F___ all the National Socialists’ while we’re at it.

The Afpak war is about Obama winning reelection, just as the Vietnam war was about Johnson winning reelection.  Only more so.  For the US to lose in Afpak, which is inevitable, threatens its leadership of Nato, which is now not in a real military alliance in any case. 

Only the US, Britain Canada and Netherlands will send combat troops into battle, the rest are bystanders.  this ‘two tier’ arrangement is a result of Western decay as a world power, and the gradual historical decrease of war as a viable method of world conflict.  Being replaced by economic conflict.

Which the US is losing, its neoliberal organization being non-competitive as a world power. Which is why Bush began the US homicidal foreign policy of the War on Terrorism.  but if Obama withdrew in Afghanistan, his Gop opponent would attack him for weakness and unpatriosm.  Successfully most likely, since Americans are so deluded about American power.

So the US must stay there until after the election, and THEN withdraw.  It is a lose-lose sitution.

Indeed, there is nothing to win.  The oil and gas pipeline is long since dead, since Russia and China have built another pipeline across Kazakisstan.  amd the original public relations reason, to get Asama bin Ladin, was always fraudulent.

The only way out is to tell the American population the truth, and that is unthinkable in this state of American barbaric decay. Even Pfaff won’t do it, CAN’T do it because the simple truth subverts US power delusions that legitimate the US power system.

So Obama is bent only on spilling more blood and treasure for no reason whatever except selfish political ones.  And that may not even work, as it didn’t for Johnson. 

This form of power insanity is what is keeping the US in Iraq, and has been the heritage of earthpeople down through history.  Covered over with the usual Patriotic bullshit of the political leaders.

Everything everywhere, from Left and from Right
seems in the end to roll from its lofty
moral perspective as it collapses into
a muddled middle ground where words
have no edge, and hold no meaning
circling and spiraling around
the center like a drain
until there is no
reason to speak
and no point
to make