Sepharad—I am SO sorry to read about that! I cant even imagine the pain…I hope that you can find some comfort in horses and other parts of nature…I wish I could think of something that would comfort you…

Take very good care of yourself , as your daughter would wish you to do. And, if you feel like it, post back and let us know how you are. I dont know you but I’ve heard you talk of your children before, and I AM SO SORRY!

Sepharad—I saw this on another post and am so very sorry ro hear it…you must be deeply in shock, even if you rather expected it. The horses can help, as you know…I wish I could be there and helpe with some theraputic riding techniques, but you prob know tham all.

I am just truly very sorry and wish you the greatest -peace you can find.

Here is the ‘
infinity” sign my dad used to use (look at it sideways) which in this case would mean that she will be in your heart forever, Infinity.

I wish I knew more to say, burt I wish you very, very well

KDelphi, our daughter died unexpectedly Sunday night, we didn’t find out till last night. I’m not going to be posting for awhile; feel like I can’t breathe; can’t think and can’t sleep. Didn’t want to keep Mike awake last night so took flashlight and cried in pasture with horses. I wish I was religious and believed in an afterlife. See you later; take care.

I would agree that people have some respomsibility for their own heatlh. Maybe Obama could help by stopping eating cheseburgers , smoking and drinking Budweiser. (I quit smoking two years ago and stopped easting meat—I wont give up the Carlsberg!)

It would help if we stopped subsidizing CORN (ie beef), tobacco (we finally did, but we used to put them in the militar’ys MREs—hard to blame them for starting there), the building of subur bs and malls that make exercise so difficult, etc. We need to stop subsidizing oil, cars, etc and subsidize a rail system

Smoking is down in the US (up in China and eastern Europe) and obesity is not as high as it is in the UK. Still, we haVE shorter lives. I think it is because of the US “work ethic”, stress and no time off, lack of a sense of social security and community, pollution and bad habits, not to mention the lack of preventative (including dental—health care for ALL.) The Holland plan would be great here—-the industry is heavily regulated there, like a utility. You also can step out your door to a train. They allow marijuana, which is healthier than alcohol, and people generally take care of one another. At least it was that way when I was there. They dont allow the chemicals into their food and water and air that we do.

Maybe the fed govt should be a role model for the citizens and stop promoting the things that we know cause disease and shorten life.

Re: lOst_sOuls_rembrd

Your comment: “Rep Waxman,  Go get em!

Absolutely.  I agree.  The American People should know.... what’s really going on.  Then they will be able make their decisions based upon the facts, and not the BS we hear again and again.  I’ve often thought of those who watched a loved one die as I watched health insurance commercials, pharma commercials or what I like to call “medical contraption” commercials….etc.

What thoughts must run through their minds as they see the “field of daisies” commercials….?  And we know, many have died.  But still they paint for us “a field of daisies”....... what could be more “at home” and give us that “warming ourselves by the fire”, feeling than a “field of daisies”?  Yet still, The People die, needlessly….. and the “daisies” I imagine, are to be found upon the coffins of the lessers…., because everyone “knows”, “important people” get roses.  And those whose coffins are draped with “daisies” are “unimportant people”, they are those “lesser” folks, whose passing is supposedly inconsenquential.

If the bastards of the insurance companies (and their paid-off ilk, ever actually do take my life…. or one of my children’s) plant a daisy.  This my wish.  Plant a daisy America, in defiance. (I count chrysanthemums in this, too…. they are so similar, we be good.)  I care NOT what anyone does with this here… shell, we call my body… whatever is least expensive and legal. 

Article quote:  “By the time Congress returns from its recess and takes another whack at the health insurance mess, Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., will have started revealing the deceit that protects health business profiteers.”

Certainly Rep. Waxman is a man of the people.  Support Rep. Waxman in his endeavor, the truth/facts are the strength of America.  I am confident, that…. with the FACTS, the will of The People will prevail.

Do not view the world as that which you would like or believe it to be….., view the world as that which IT IS.  Then work to make it, that which you would like it to be.

Old Geezer Pilot,

Now that sounds like Oral Roberts who wouldn’t let youngsters graduate from his college if they were overweight.

If a person is overweight, how long do you give them before they get kicked off?  That sounds pretty drastic.  I would never kick anyone off health care.

All people do not have proper food available, what if they don’t have proper food to be able to sustain weight loss? 

Considering the whole population, there are lots of what if’s to overweight.  I think there should not be such a strict regimen as to be kicked off health care, if we ever get on health care.  With proper medical care and training people will get more healthy and when they get more healthy, their weight will drop.

I guess smoking would be out, or drinking, pepsi, coke, wine, candy,  etc.  Should these offenses not be advertised or sold in stores?

KDelphi,

That’s right, it’s called MONEY.

If Waxman wanted to do what “Kennedy stood for” we would get the plan that Massachusetts has.

We’re not even getting close to that,. . It would be better than what we are getting, which is a big ass-kiss to the insurance industry. If I was Kennedy, i wouldnt want this turkey of a bill named after me.

Insurance provides no product or service. It should be eliminated. It just makes medical care less affordable and accessible.

If it is true, MarthaA, that health care is the “last of the insurance indutry’s” concerns—wtf is Congress and the Dems doing, giving them a bunch of money? For what? Killing 20-80,000 people a year?

There is a good reason why “America’s health Insurance Plans” are backing this, folks, and it has nothing to do with health care.

Susan,
Thanks for the imagery, it helps…

Re:MarthaA, August 28 at 11:47 am #

Keep dreaming and fantasizing. Kennedy supported and promoted Obama.
Watching the pathetic spiritless performance, continuous shifting positions and not staying on a clear defined message to the public from Obama and the majority of Democrats in congress, anyone can not help but conclude it is all theatrics and make believe bullshitting.
In the end the health care “reform” bill will be exacttly as the insurance/pharma/medical complex wanted and asked for. There will be change but for the worse and more government subsidies and more power to the insurance/pharma/medical complex.
your friend Waxman is part of the charade. His preaching and pontification and his usual posturing is an old story. We saw that before many times and it is sickening.

truedigger3,

“It is all posturing and showing off and we saw it before gazillions of times.”

Maybe you are right, but I don’t think so with Waxman, but only time will tell.

It is plain that if the representatives of the people were ingenuous, so many of the people of the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION would not be in such down-trodden positions lacking sustaining medical care and proper housing.  Hopefully, since Senator Kennedy has left for home, as the Congress people remember what Senator Kennedy stood for, will help Congress to do what is beneficial to the greater majority, instead of only seeking to benefit the few.

**When decisions were being made in the last presidential election, one factor
weighed heavily in many voters’ minds: the truth factor. Bush et al had lied
repeatedly on issue after issue; people had become exhausted simply trying
untangle the lies and discover something approximating the truth.  Obama
benefited - many people believed he could be trusted, he would tell them the
truth.
**The truth is the truth has been obscured in the health care ‘debate’, and
Obama has done his part to obscure it.  Months after we began talking about
‘health care reform’, there is still no frank discussion of the single payer; why:
because, we’re told, ‘it wont pass’. Well, where’s the ‘honest discussion’ about it
and why politicians think ‘it wont pass’?  It is the only proposal that meets the
criteria set forth by reformers: cut costs, expand coverage, improve
efficiencies, and yet Obama tells it wont pass. Does that mean the goals of
reform will not be achieved? If so, say so and move on.
**More and more, it appears that the ‘change we can believe in’ is simply more
of the same - special ‘deals’ with Big Pharma, nods to the insurance industry
(we wont really change anything -wink, wink), dropping and watering down the
public option by substituting ‘coops’  (with the ‘public option’ already
acknowledged to be an inadequate vehicle to create change). etc. etc. etc.
**Perhaps, Waxman can shed light into the darkest corners - mini Truth
Commission on Health Care. But wouldnt it be great if the President of the
United States was as interested in getting to the truth as Waxman appears to
be. Instead, the administration seems content to swivel around the issues, soft
pedal the problems, obscure the facts (not ‘offend’ anyone; in hopes of making
nice-y pooh with industry and screwing the public, I guess). 
**Credibility is critical in the face of the opposition’s continuing lies, but
Obama has not come forward with the real truth about (1) the lack of
competition currently (e.g, big market monopolies by hospitals and insurance
companies), (2) the cost of not negotiating prescription drug prices, (3) the
rationing of health care based on income, employment and previous condition,
(4) the huge non-health care related expenditures by insurance companies -
‘administration’, ‘profits’, enormous salaries. It’s not talked about; it’s like all
this doesnt exist.
**Since these facts are not mentioned as part of the problem, they are not
addressed in the solutions - nevertheless, they are key contributors to rising
costs, lack of coverage and inefficiencies in delivery: the very things Obama
says he wants to fix.
**The realization that we are not going to get the truth (i.e. the facts) from
Obama has been a sever loss for Obama, for health care reform and for the
country.  Unless Obama is willing and finds advisors who can help him ‘change
the terms of the debate’ - i.e. talk openly and candidly about the facts -
Obama’s ‘health care reform’ and his diminishing credibility will contribute to
significant democratic loses in the next elections.

voice of truth wrote:
“The precedent this sets is incredibly scary, that any company or industry that the current ruling party doesn’t like can be hauled in front of congress, with not even the pretense that they have done anything illegal, but just to bully, threaten and intimidate”
____________________________________________________

Calm down and don’t get excited and angry. It is all theatrics and make believe bullshitting without any teeth or substance and the insurance companies love it.
Waxman will get a chance to lecture and preach and earn some points and the insurance companies will keep getting his protection when and where it really counts.
It is all posturing and showing off and we saw it before gazillions of times.

“Waxman has already begun by demanding that major insurance companies reveal how much they pay top executives and board members and, most important, the size of their profits from selling policies.”

Good for Waxman, because if CEO’S of these insurance corporations get their way their profits will be even higher, because good health and medical care for the population is the least of their concern.

BLUE DOG DAZE
by The Nation Magazine
August 31/September 7, 2009
http://www.thenation.com

Page 1 of 2

Washington’s August humidity seems to have induced political stupefaction among Whitehouse operatives, whose sluggish reasoning has led them to denounce progressives for criticizing any Congressional Democrat in the healthcare debate.  There’s a war on, they argue, and we have limited ammunition—- save it for the real enemy.

No doubt progressives need to mobilize to counter the thuggery of wing nuts—- aided and applauded by Republican leaders and health industry lobbyists—- trying to take over town meetings.  The right should be scorned for trying to “break” the Obama presidency by stopping any reform whatsoever.

But Democrats have sixty votes in the Senate and a large majority in the House.  If they were unified behind their president and their leaders, significant healthcare reform would pass.  That Congress recessed without agreement on a sensible bill is mostly the result of the destructive maneuvers of a handful of conservative Democrats in the House, largely from the fifty-two-member Blue Dog caucus and their allies in the Senate, headed by Max Baucus, chair of the Finance Committee and poster child of corrupt and compromised incoherence.

Baucus, mired in unending “bipartisan” negotiations with all of three Republicans, has failed to produce a bill from the Finance Committee; what eventually emerges will probably be deeply, if not fatally, flawed.  Representative Mike Ross and a pack of Blue Dogs managed to force the House Energy Committee to gut the public option, while lowering subsidies to middle-income families forced to pay higher prices to insurance companies.

The Blue Dogs come largely from rural and Southern districts, and often campaign by distancing themselves from the national party.  Their support comes from voters who are conservative on social issues like guns and abortion.  But on bread-and-butter concerns, these legislators are voting with their contributors, not their constituents.

The Blue Dogs parade as “fiscal conservatives” and “moderates,” false advertising that the mainstream press mindlessly echoes.  In fact, they are the epitome of a Washington captured by moneyed interests.  They aren’t working to ensure that healthcare reforms are paid for; they are laboring on behalf of insurance companies to protect their obscene profits.  The Blue Dogs are maneuvering on behalf of Big Pharma to make sure the government won’t negotiate reasonable drug prices.  They’re doing their best to derail reasonable tax hikes on the affluent, hikes that would make insurance affordable for working-and middle-class families.  Even on the Blue Dogs’ signature issue—- the “pay-go” rules, which they isnsist must be passed into law—- they exempt reductions in the estate tax on the wealthiest Americans and, of course, the cost of any military adventure whatsoever.

Blue Dog Daze
The Nation Magazine

Page 2 of 2

White House officials apparently think these legislators can be bought off one by one, and fear that offending Blue Dogs en masse might raise their price.  More destructively, they care far more about passing something called “comprehensive healthcare” than about what is in the actual legislation.  Focus on those who oppose any bill, they urge.  Let us make the best deals we can in the back rooms.

The problem with this strategy is that the lobbies own the back rooms.  We saw evidence of that when Big Pharma announced that Obama had privately agreed to sustain the most outrageous Bush handouts to the drug companies.

The White House call for progressives to ignore these Democratic obstructionists is not much different from Lyndon Johnson telling Martin Luther King, Jr. to halt civil rights demonstrations in a South ruled by segregationist Democrats.  Change never comes from following such advice.

What the country needs—- what Obama needs, whether he realizes it or not—- is an independent, mobilized, progressive citizens’ movement that takes on the corporate lobbies, from Big Pharma to Big Oil to Wall Street; challenges the legislators who are in their pockets; and demands affordable national healthcare, renewable energy, empowerment of workers, regulation of Wall Street and more.  That movement should go after the conservatives and the compromised in both parties—- anyone who stands in the way of reform.

The obstruction by Republicans and the right is real and must be opposed.  But so should the back-room guile of the moneyed lobbies and their Democratic allies.  If we are going to get the change we need, progressives will have to challenge those in both parties who can’t see which way the wind is blowing.

What a blowhard.  A classic Saul Alinsky move, to demonize your opponent.

The precedent this sets is incredibly scary, that any company or industry that the current ruling party doesn’t like can be hauled in front of congress, with not even the pretense that they have done anything illegal, but just to bully, threaten and intimidate.

It’s is irrelevent what you think of insurance companies.  No person or lawful entity should be made to go through this to simply please the quest for power that some have.

Rep Waxman,

Go get em!  I am for Universal Health care.  I watched ‘Morning Joe’ the other day when a Senator (D) introduced his UHeath care bill to Joe….It was fasanating to watch:  The Senator asked Joe 3 Q’s.  What does your private health care do for you?  Does it give physicals?  Does it restrict what doctors you can see and do you need prior authorization?  What happens to profits?  1)Contract w/you to have health insurance.  Medicare does that.  2)No.  It does not give physicals. Neither does Medicare.  Private Insurance can deny you at any time or not give you coverage at all w/prior condtions.  Medicare does NOT.  3) The profits for Private Health Insurance goes into the pockets of CEO’s and shareholders to the tune of $389B last year.  Medicare’s profits go back into the system. 

Private Health Insurance restricts which Doctors you can see, Medicare does not.  You need prior authorzations with both systems. 

Private Insurance has 40% overhead/Admin costs where as Medicare has 4%.  Both systems have fraud issues and could use ‘fine tuning’.

Which would you chose?  They (PHI) are spending 1.5 MILLION $$$ per day to confuse folks.  Get the emotions in check and do some honest to goodness reshearch.  Compare the issues.

Huffington Post should still have links to the 2 part video of Joe’s stunned reaction…....oh and by the way?  Joe changed his views on how he saw the issues and wanted the Universal Health care.  Watch it and believe.

Am I the only one tired of Nazi references and right wing hypocrisy when it comes to the health care debate?

Here is an example.

http://progressnotcongress.org/?p=2694

I have an idea that just might draw enough attention to the universal healthcare cause. The federal and state governments need to suspend the medicare and medicaid program, for oh about six months. That means shut it down completely. No benefits provided, none paid for. Let the idiots of america see what effect government run healthcare has on all americans. As old people die, and contagion spreads throughout our slums and other low income areas, hospitals will be stormed by mobs of angry senior citizens looking for those maintenance drugs that have made their retirements bareable. Then, of course, all those hospitals and doctors offices who depend on that influx of public money to keep their business afloat will go belly up, and take their pharmecutical benefactors with them.

Yessiree, it’s time that all americans wake up to the fact that between medicare, medicaid, and the VA, almost 1/4 of all americans are already on a public run healthcare system, and that number is set to balloon with the boomers retireing. Anyone who supports healthcare reform that is not a universal single payer plan, like Waxman, is wasting our time.

PurpleGirl is on to something(s)in this comment.
Waxman is OK, but the decision will be in the Senate
and even worse (if that is possible) in conference
committee if a bill gets passed in both, to reconcile
via secret deals.

Continue the fight for single payer, despite Congress and despite Obama.

See http://www.blackagendareport.com for good articles by
Bruce A. Dixon and Glen Ford.

The framing of this whole sh*thole mess, as created by the Repug & Mass Media corporatists, has been the attempt to paint this polarizing picture of Right vs. Left yada yada. That and, of course, allowing the PR firms to create astroturf mobs shouting for a violent overthrow of a democratically-elected government.

They’ve been very, very successful.

Waxman’s approach, on the other hand, may stand the chance of framing this thing more correctly: It’s not Right v. Left. It’s fat-cat economic vampire leaders of monopolies and cartels vs. everyone else.

Their collective canines are sunk into our bank account jugulars and will drink until we are all dry.

Go Henry! Bring out the garlic, mirrors and stakes!

prole ... you wrote “... and now Boyarsky and Waxman are lining up to fleece the goyim again…” I think it should be clear that the pharmaceutical companies are equal-opportunity fleecers. (Boyarsky and Waxman are the good guys. Really. Waxman has moved a lot of progressive issues in California, including forcing the State Bar of California to include non-lawyer public members—voting members—on its board of governors. Do you have any conception of just how difficult that was? These people were minority rights activists, academics, people who were needed to balance the interests of the people more favorably vis a vis the state’s legal establishment. And they did. That has affected a lot of legislation in the last 25 years for the better.) And that’s just one significant, largely unheralded achievement of Waxman’s.

kdelphi…there’s an article over at opednews by Phyllis Huster that could be of some interest to you.  i just kinda glanced over it…it may contain information and options concerning your condition that u may or may not be aware of.

The Senate (and Obama) don’t want single payer.  End of story, for now.  Facts won’t make change…only
organizing.

Some good critical analysis on BlackAgendaReport by
Bruce A. Dixon and Glen Ford http://www.blackagendareport.com

Also, a good article by Paul Street, on Obama as pol,
a review, easy read, on Znet, Aug.15,2009
“...Obama and the Corporate ‘Punking’of America”,
http://www.zcommunications.org/znet

Why do the signs say “Health Care for All”?? the “PUBIC option” wouldnt cover millions.

“Health care for all” and Families USA’ are funded by the medical industrial complex. 20,000-80,000 served us to their graves a year.

Its the Mickey Dees of “health”.

It is known by the health care industry that the government run, single payer, public option plan is a knife at the throat of this industry——not that they don’t deserve it.  While the public option may be restricted initially to the poor, the unemployed, and those who can’t get coverage otherwise, in time it will absorb a greater number of insured.  Once the public option is enacted in 15-20 years it will be universal coverage that we see today in other modern states.

Adolph Hitler was on-record as very much admiring U.S. “Indian policy,” with its kill-as-many-as-you-can-and-CONfine-the-rest-to-CONcentration-camps agenda.  He patterned his own “final solution” after it.

Many key nazis were brought to the U.S. afterm WWII and put into low-profile but influential positions in gov’t, industry, and academia.  So does anybody see what went around coming back around, as the apparatus for “solving” the surplus population problem is systematically installed and got up-and-running “....back in the U.S. (of A.)”?

It’s sure obvious to us survivors here in Indian Country.

HokaHey!

Bill Boyarsy wrote:
“Waxman has already begun by demanding that major insurance companies reveal how much they pay top executives and board members and, most important, the size of their profits from selling policies.”
_________________________________________________

OH YEAH.

We know already that those exectives and board members are paid exorbitantly in addition to their bonuses and stock options and yes, they have their private jets too.
What we need from Waxman and his ilk is to stand firm and demand a single payer or at least a REAl public option.
We are fed up with theatrics and posturing and make believe bullshitting without any substance.
Neither Obama nor Waxman and the majority of the Democrats in Congress want a REAL health care reform.
It is all agreed upon in advance and the Insurance/Pharma/Medical complex, in the end,  will get what the wanted and asked for. What is going on right now is just pure bullshitting.

A bit long but points out the interests of all parties
involved.  It also puts emphasis on who really matters:
the people.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200909/health-care

Whos’ Killing Granny (and Baby jane and her mother) those with huge Comp and option packages and golden parachutes to boot!
These Private Corps Conned Granny out of her Medicare coverage for one of their ‘cost cutting’ managed care options. Denying services which would have been readily paid for by Medicare had they not been lured in with a ‘bait and switch’ offer. These managed care programs consider Gym membership equal to Physical Therapy.Their Home health adage- “You’re Home, so you are healthy”
If the private healthcare system was so fabulous- why is our Infant mortality rate ranked about 26th, our Life Expectancy ranked even lower?
Are these insurers trying to pin the blame on our healthcare providers, instead of their own greed and dispassionate Gatekeepers.
It’s time the medical profession- esp the AMA stop allowing themselves to be the fall guys for these insurance Corps who just as soon sue then pay them.
these are the same corps demanding those exhorbinat malpractice insurance premiums too, Kiddos’.Thye aren’t covering your asses, they are picking your pockets as well!
Come on Docs, put your money where that Hippocratic Oath came out!

I don’t trust Waxman one bit. He’s a phony who seems content in compromising
and compromising until all we have left is a bill forcing us to buy health
insurance. He used to support 676, now he supports shit. I saw him on
Democracy Now and in between his obfuscations he snapped at Amy several times
for not holding his book up for the camera. I have no doubt about what kind of
politician this man is and I think him and his compromising will only make
matters worse.

Egad! arch zionist fiend Boyarsky has slithered out from under his flat rock again to extol fellow AIPAC accomplice Waxman. It was only a few short months ago that these two loathsome Israeli cheerleaders were reveling in the murder and maiming of Palestinian children in Gaza. And now Boyarsky and Waxman have teamed up to try and fleece the goyim again with a typical double-speak “health care” plan that’s being touted as ‘progressive’ but essentially gives the insurance companies everything they want, just like AIPAC. “Will the winner be the health industry and its man Tom Daschle, moving with insider ease between the Senate and the White House? Or will it be the dogged Waxman, the man who beat the legendary John Dingell for committee chair last year?” Either way, the public loses and the insurance companies win. This, in a nutshell, is what the two-party system is all about, to create these false dichotomies of choices that preempt any real choice. And that’s what sleazemongers like Boyarsky are all about, to propagandize for the phoney system posing as a ‘progressive’. Plumping for a consumate insider and zionist hitman like Waxman. Will the winner be the health industry and its man Tom Daschle or will the winner be the health industry and its man Henry Waxman? Yeah, “the best solution would be government health insurance Medicare for all” which of course is exactly why the “dogged” Waxman “didn’t include it in his reform bill.” Not to worry, Boyarsky is an old hand at contradicting himself, so AIPAC crony Waxman can still play the imaginary hero to Daschle’s villain in Boyarsky’s b.s. melodrama. Never mind of course that despite the claim that Waxman allegedly “is all policy, determined to explain everything in detail”; but for some strange reason when he was asked, “what was his purpose in seeking the information? At first, he was reluctant to discuss the investigation. Finally, he gave a guarded reply: that many folks perhaps take too benign a view of private insurance companies.” Yep, couldn’t ask for a more detailed explanation than that now, could you. Maybe Israeli terror apologists Boyarsky and Waxman would like to give a detailed explanation of the health implications of America’s policies in the Middle East. “By the time Congress returns from its recess and takes another whack at the health insurance mess, Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., will have started revealing the deceit that protects health business profiteers” - in another form of deceit of his own that will continue to protect health business profiteers almost as zealously as he and the repellent Boyarsky deceitfully protect Israeli plunderers.

GO HENRY!!!

Somebody has to care a lot, as Obama seems to be cooly indifferent, and Waxman, as always, is fighting on the side of the angels.

Earth-to-Rahm, earth-to-Rahm, WAKE YOUR BOSS UP BEFORE IT’S TOO LATE!

Remember in the movie “Matrix” when we learned that people were really “batteries” that supplied current for the machines.  While we are lying in our battery chambers, we are fed and “distracted” by a reality that is “made up” by the machines.
I really am starting to feel like a “battery” for the machine. 

I don’t mean to stretch the analogy too far, but we are fed (fattened up), drugged, and enticed to servitude via our VISA cards.  All the while the profiteers push us to ever higher levels of consumerism.  Our healthcare is really sickcare that functions to get us “back on our feet” ready to indulge further in our “Big Mac Attacks”.

The Healthcare industry have a vested interest in our sickness, not our wellness.  That is the real problem, don’t you think?

The motivation is all wrong, and we need to change it.  I really don’t care if the solution is single-payer, Medicare for all, or private insurance.  The results have to be better health for all of us.  Can’t we even agree on that?