bogi666,

“AFriend, have you ever lived or traveled elsewhere” Do you have a passport? Just how is it that you draw your conclusions from? Glenn Beck, a deranged psycho, obviously manic depressive”

—-

Yes. Yes. And no.

Interesting how you appear to harangue me for making assumptions by making assumptions about me. Interesting, don’t you think?

Folktruther, August 22 at 4:49 pm #

Methinks it is not forklifts that Virginia despises, it is working class Americans. Oh, and critical thinking too.

Best you give it up, you wont get through to the jackass and you might even wind up detesting that poster, thinking there is no there there, as much as do I.

You better be careful, Virgina.  Now that I remember it, I was transferred when I was in the Army Reserves (not my idea) to a forklift regiment.  (no, I didn’t know they had whole regiments of forklifts either)  I drive a forklift about as well as I drive a semi, but we are dealing with military rationality here.

The point is that I may have connections to a whole regiment of forklifts if you keep insulting Ardee.  You only encourage him, you know.

Folktruther, in a purple robe sitting on a tree stump “You, Ardee, are unfortunately much more politically sophisticated than the average blogger on Truthdig”

Ardee, sitting at his feet “Virginia is an imbecile, and I state the obvious”

She’s your sister, FT?

gosh, she is so cute, I’d never guess!

Folktruther, August 22 at 12:49 pm

Virginia is an imbecile, and I state the obvious.

O Ardee, lighten up.  Virgina doesn’t know or probably doesn’t care much about abstract power relations, so makes personal comments.  I think they are witty.  I like her.  Although I wouldn’t want her to marry my sister.

Folktruther, in a robe sitting on a tree stump “You, Ardee, are unfortunately much more politically sophisticated than the average blogger on Truthdig”

Ardee, sitting at his feet “So its a bad thing to be politically sophisticated?”

speaking of stupidity on both sides:

jmr, August 20 at 4:23 pm #

“Pfaff has spent much of his professional life in France, which accounts for his jaundiced view of Americans and his Obamaphilia.  In his view, we are not worthy of Obama.  Wayne’s World redux.”

Moron.

Folktruther, August 22 at 12:29 am

Responding to this mental midget is a real waste otime, unless you have a personal and humiliating comment about her.

I wonder why she is so frightened of fork lifts? Or honest debate? Or so fixated on sophomoric attacks? Could she be yet another incarnation of MarthaA?

Samson has a blog (Common Debate blogspot—after Comom Dreams banned so many for questioning some aspect of Obama during primary)...i Think), that i visit and, post to occasionally…I can assure you he is no right winger.I’ll give you a link, and check it out:

http://commondebate.blogspot.com/

Virgina, is that nice?  At least we could go forward off a cliff.  I’‘m not Ardee’s ‘mentor’; he’s led a much more interesting life than I have.

I don’t know why Ardee and Folktruther are calling jmr a “winger”.

Ardee is a troll, I suggest he and his “mentor” Folktruther hop in his forklift and back off a cliff.

“... the American public is intolerant and too many know little more than what they are told by Fox News and by talk radio, which means that they haven’t a clue as to what really is going on in the world.”

And that, my friends, is the MAJOR problem besetting America.

That the public is intolerant is no surprise. If you were lied to and screwed over as many times and in as many ways as “Joe Sixpack” you’d be intolerant as well.

That the American public is ignorant is only partly their own fault. “Big Money” long ago took over control of the USA with the blessing of “the public” who themselves bought the dream of becoming rich in the land of unlimited opportunity. “Big Money” owns and operates “Big Media.” And “Big Media” feeds the American public “Big Money’s” controlling propaganda 24/7. How, exactly are the people supposed to know what’s really going on when all they hear/see is either half-truth or outright lies.

The whipped cream and cherry on top of this toxic mess is the general lack of discipline in the population. Learning, staying aware, and participation in meaningful political exercises demand an ability to conduct unbiased and legitimate CRITICAL ANALYSIS, both of which are in very short supply in a population whose attention can be so easily hijacked by the media with distractions such as the fuss around the likes of a Paris Hilton or Michael Jackson.

President Obama’s “fault” lies in his fundamental belief that all those who desire to see America continue on the road to success are willing to sit down and compromise in order to achieve it. Americans are a ME FIRST/US-AGAINST-THEM bunch… they’re perfectly willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater to “win” a battle of prejudices… time and time again. It is all, as was said, very, very sad.

I think ignorance would have better displaced stubbornness.  Of course in an unequal world peons had better be kept ignorant, or they might just figure out how they’ve been had for the last 200 hundred years.

Like Ardee, J,  I think you are a right winger too, and we both can read.  It’s spellling I have a little problem with.  But, astonishingly, Dem rightwingers often don’t know they are right wing.

Ardee, if you took a remedial course in reading comprehension, then you’d know I’m anything but right-wing.  You prove that the right has no monopoly on stupidity.

jmr, August 20 at 4:23 pm #

Pfaff has spent much of his professional life in France, which accounts for his jaundiced view of Americans and his Obamaphilia.  In his view, we are not worthy of Obama.  Wayne’s World redux.

Silly right wing characterizations of France, huh? What a way to start…...

Diamond is right. Claiming there’s no difference between the parties is a cop-out.  It allows us to disengage and leave the process to the very gangsters we complain about.  That’s what happened when some of you drank Ralph Nader’s Kool-Aid in 2000.

Diamond is reasonably intelligent and I enjoy his posts, though I disagree with much of what he believes. You, sorry, not so much. Trite, formulaic, right wing talking points, done to distraction and containing not even a germ of honesty accomplish little. Presuming to know what sort of political actions others engage in labels you pretty foolish frankly.

Pfaff has spent much of his professional life in France, which accounts for his jaundiced view of Americans and his Obamaphilia.  In his view, we are not worthy of Obama.  Wayne’s World redux.

Diamond is right. Claiming there’s no difference between the parties is a cop-out.  It allows us to disengage and leave the process to the very gangsters we complain about.  That’s what happened when some of you drank Ralph Nader’s Kool-Aid in 2000.

During the 2008 election, I kept warning that although Obama is a decent sort, the congressional mandarins would eat him for lunch.  But the Obamaphiles were too busy celebrating themselves to stop and think.  The nation was so eager to clean house that any of the early Democratic candidates, except maybe Kucinich, who wasn’t serious, could have been elected.  Instead, they went for the media’s candidate.  This wasn’t Obama’s fault.  He ran a great campaign, but as Carter and Clinton proved, a great campaigner doth not a great president make.  And now, the congressional mandarins are eating Obama for lunch.

Despite the whines of purists, who equate him with Bush because he judged national security measures in-place on the merits rather than on mindless dogma, Obama is certainly an improvement on his predecessor.  And to thebeerdoctor, who claims that “Many believed that Barack Obama was certainly not a liberal,” I ask, Is that just beer you’re drinking?  If anyone believed Obama was anything other than a liberal, then he’s as delusional as the woman whose planet Barney Frank inquired about.

We can’t rely on rational argument to prevail in the healthcare debate, because we are dealing with wingnuts and old farts, who think with their glands instead of their brains. (q.v. 1st chakra) This is where politics, as opposed to democracy, comes in.  There have been some reports as recent as today, that the Dems are ready to abandon bipartisanship.  It’s about time.  To those who complain about Obama’s trying to suck up to the GOP like he sucked up to the Islamofascists in Cairo, consider that in doing both he set his audience up.  What’s going on in the Arab world remains to be seen, but already the GOP has become the party of No.  Obama can say he invited them to the table but they didn’t come, so now, and the spiders and snakes of “the private sector,” along with their dittohead dupes, can stew in their own bile.

America’s biggest asshole echos Pfaff, when he says in a recent interview:

[Michael Moore] ...the congressional Democrats, what a bunch of losers—weak, scared, stupid. They had better get a clue pretty quick or the Dark Forces will return.

[Question] Bill Maher recently said that “America is stupid” and “too dumb to be governed.” Do you agree?

[Moore] Eight years ago I wrote a book called “Stupid White Men.” In that book, I wrote a chapter entitled “Idiot Nation.” I think that says it all. Sad, sad, sad.

As for “élitist,” if preferring excellence to mediocrity makes me an élitist, then I plead guilty.

Re: Whit

Your comment:  ” For those of you who believe we can have a political solution know nothing of the engineering principles involved so you can blindly follow you inclinations but nature will not honor those inclinations.  That is where light and darkness comes in.  It is not black and white—those are colors.  Light is not a color but a necessity to vision. We are all blind in the dark.  The light lets us distinguish what is white and what is black.”

A couple of things.  EVERYTHING, like it or not…. in the end boils down to politics.  This includes, the shoes on your feet, the air you breathe and the food you eat.  Think about it.

As to your comment: ” Light is not a color but a necessity to vision. We are all blind in the dark.  The light lets us distinguish what is white and what is black.”

I assume you mean “white light”, that which we normally call light.  White light is ALL THE COLORS.  Dark, or what I’ll refer to (as we often do) BLACK is absence of color.  Look it up.  Think.

Therefore, “light” does not allow us to distinguish between “what is white and what is black”, it allows us to see ALL COLORS, while black is simply absence of color.

I find it strange that people get angry with criticisms of Obama. I think anyone who cast a vote his way deserves some accountability for the way he has abandoned all principles, in his rather laughable attempt to make friends with the Republicans, those pro big business military enablers that the Democrats do their best now to copy, to the point that their legislative actions become indistinguishable. 
It is all fine and dandy if you cast a vote for someone else, but the people who swallowed the “change we can believe in” bait have every right to say they do not like what has happened, and what continues to be going on.
One time I bought some ‘open box’ loudspeakers from an electronics store, that were said to be certified and inspected, only to get them home and find both of the woofers cracked, complete with a hand written note taped on the back that said: “speakers broke”.
Well I took them back to the store, where it was resolved by exchanging them for a brand new set in an unopened box, at the same open box discount price.
If only politics worked that way! The people could say “this is not the Barry I voted for!”. Many believed that Barack Obama was certainly not a liberal, but many thought he would be at least a reasonable person. But with the looting of the national treasury by the “too big to fail” banks and insurance companies, the expansion from two wars to three, and the very lame proposed legislation for “health care reform”... brothers and sisters, this set of speakers, upon inspection, have been discovered to be broken.

William,

You could have said “you can’t blame Obama for American’s being stupid”.  I
haven’t seen this much nuttiness in America since the heydey of the John Birch
Society and Edwin Walker running around wanting to try Kennedy for treason.
Obama seems to have brought out the worst in the Republican party and man
they are bad. I thought McCain/Palin drew a ruckus crowd but this gang of gun
wielding drug store cowboys wanting their America back is a sight to behold. I
guess Bill Maher was right after all. Obama is a decent man and for that reason
he has gone where George W. Bush would never tread, to actually extend a
handshake to Republican’s. Ok, they didn’t take it so now Obama can do damm
well as he pleases and pass the most massive health care reform in the nation’s
history. Let the Republican’s filibuster - they will be exposed across the
American landscape as a bunch of frauds. I really believe Obama can be
ruthless if necessary. it’s not his preferred method but I bet he can be just as
nasty as Dick Cheney when he wants something and he wants health care
reform. i can’t believe so many progressives have turned on him after only
seven months. Politics is not tiddlywinks as they say and Obama will yet get this
done. The Republican’s and their followers are too damm stupid to prevent it.

Samson,

You said yourself, you worked for a billion dollar company before Wall Street and polticians crashed the market. Then you said government is controlled by people who want to destroy everything good that it does. I am somehow an idiot because I point out exactly what you stated. Is this 1984??? Government is controlled by the highest bidder. Those are the people who hate our government and want to destroy it. Not the people who point that out in the hope that enough people will wake up to do something about it.

Diamond,

Would you please wake up and take a look at Obama’s voting record in the US Senate as well as his actual positions and actions as president so far? The Democrats are going pro-corporatist and pro-war now that they’re in power just like the Republicans. Remember that war spending bill with the IMF addition? It was the Democrats this time who supported both the IMF and war spending ! Bailouts for Wall $treet? Please check the voting record in Congress. Nader was always right that there isn’t a dime’s worth of a difference between the two parties and I proudly voted thrice for him even if I had to be upset that we elected corporate stooges and war hacks such as Dubya and Barry !

You call Samson a conservative pretending to be a progressive ? OMG, this is so laughable. You remind me of the Obamabots who would call me a “Republican” for actually being a progressive and not supporting GOP-lite legislation. Samson has an excellent blog that I find rather helpful given our piss poor media that is a puppet to Wall $treet and the Military Industrial Complex.

If you can’t blame the president for how the country is run, who can you you blame?

I would have prefered Kucinich, Ron Paul or Nader, but Obama is preferable to McCain, especially with a veto proof majority. 

I favor dismantling the complex Insurance-Medical private enterprise and replacing it with a uniform social security entitlement direct to the Hospitals, where everyone with a viable SSN is insured.

The need for supplemental insurance will assure that the insurance companies will get their pound of flesh, however the profit on misery will be limited to amenities.

Samson it’s one of the conservatives’ favourite lies that there’s no difference between the parties. They say this to seed political despair and discourage ordinary people from being politically active and to turn them off voting. It’s been very successful in America but it’s never been true. If it was they wouldn’t need to send zombies to disrupt the town hall meetings on health care and they wouldn’t need to craft the carefully constructed lie put around by the birther crackpots. The question is, if he’s working for them why do they hate and fear him so much? I think you’re a conservative pretending to be an outraged progressive. 70% of Americans want health care fixed and the Republicans and those who support them, like you for example, know it. To defeat logic you have to come up with a myth. You can argue with logic but a myth is pure illogic and can only be defeated by a better myth. The idea that both parties are the same is a myth that appeals to emotion and illogic which is the only way the conservatives can get the 70% that make up the working class to either not vote or vote against their own interests.

Samson and KDelphi,

THANK YOU ! You’ll be amazed at the way the partisan Obama-bots continue to go out of their way to defend this MISleader. Trying to reason with them is just as “easy” as trying to reason with the Limbaugh Dittoheads. In the recent times, I have found myself being called not only a “Republican” for opposing HR3200 and supporting HR676 and S703 but I was even called a “racist” ! I don’t think I’m alone. Recently, I got an email from a couple of former Obama supporters who were totally upset that they were banned from Obama’s White House site for raising their concerns about his refusal to put single payer on the table. And this is the same man who refuses to repeal the Patriot Act and supports and plans on expanding Dubya’s FISA.

Samson, I don’t blame you for getting angry at this article. The author is trying to misdirect our anger away from the Establishment and onto us working class people fighting amongst ourselves.

Mr. Pfaff,

Obama has proved that he loved his chance at the presidency way more than the opportunity to work on important issues. He knew which way he had to lean in order to get where he is, and he did just that.  Can you say that he ignored what the Democratic party and the Washington partnership with interest groups were all about?  Or did he think he was some kind of supreme being?  The voters apparently thought he was. If he is indeed a decent, realistic man, he would have continued to serve his country from some other political level.

Samson has it right. Exactly.

Folktruther has it right, painful as it may be for some of you to hear. Obama is a disaster. A big corporate phony, who only cares about his fellow elites.

And his fellow elites love him for it. No rocking the boat, and, they get to pretend that they are “progressive” cause they voted in the “first black guy” on their way home from driving their spoiled brat kid to her lily-white charter school, paid for by ME.

Then go home and fill up a “care pkg” for a soldier, going to the war, provided for by ME! (my neighborhood—not a “soldier” from theirs!)

Then tell me you cant afford to pay for a life-saving surgery for ME—barbarians.

Rod

For about $0.40, I can put an envelope in a box in front of my house and be relatively sure that it will be where I want it to be in 2 or 3 days.

For $0.40, I couldn’t pay a kid in the neighborhood to carry it a block to mail it for me.

Private industry charges about $10 for the same service.

There are lots of examples of what a government can do well.  You just have to take off the idealogical blinders long enough to see them.

Any organization is people.  Any organization can be good or bad, efficient or inefficient.  Before Wall street and the politicians crashed the economy, I used to work for a billion dollar a year corporation.  I saw lots of stupid, inefficient things in that company.

Government can be what you want it to be.  One problem we’ve had in this country for the last 30 years or so is that politics has been largely controlled by people who want to destroy anything effective the government does.  This is then backed up my idiots who blindly say the government sucks at anything it does.  Which is a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy since the people who say that spend all their time trying to destroy the governments ability to do anything.

The very last paragraph and line is where I get really angry.

Obama and the Democrats did not try.  Period.  Isn’t that obvious.  Obama never proposed a health care proposal.  All he did was to turn it over to the big health industry paid employees in the House and the Senate and told them to produce a bill.  Obama never laid down any markers that said the bill had to have X in it.  Never.

Obama and the Democrats combined to make sure single-payer was never discussed as an option.  Not invited to any of the early meetings.  Blocked from testifying before Congress.  They did add a few progressive ideas like a ‘public option’, but they never really fought for them.

You’ve never seen Obama on TV making big major speeches supporting the idea of public health care.  You’ve never seen Obama going around the country barnstorming for his vision of health care.  That would be hard since he never had a vision.

The few progressive ideas always felt like negotiating points that would be quickly abandoned when the negotiations got real.  You never saw the Democrats really fighting for them.  You never saw the Democrats saying that it would be a deal-breaker if they weren’t included. 

Instead, Obama held secret meetings with the big get-rich-from-people’s-illness companies.  He turned the process over to people like Baucus who got huge amounts of cash from these very companies.  While progessives were being arrested for daring to even stand up in a hearing room and mention single-payer, Obama and the Democrats turned the whole process over to Big Health and basically said that they should take what they wanted.

Polls actually show that Americans favor some sort of public health, single-payer, national-health care system.  Americans generally hate the current system.  Americans hate insurance companies.  Americans hate the doctors offices and hospitals where you are lucky to see a real doctor for 2 minutes.  No one I know likes any of this.

So, what’s this nonsense about blaming the big mess that Obama and the Democrats have made instead on the stubbornness of ordinary Americans.  If Americans have a problem, its that they aren’t nearly stubborn enough in demanding what they say they want.

purplewolf: I don’t disagree that the current system is care rationing, but do you really think it will get better if the government takes it over? Name one thing the federal government does well, not counting getting us into wars and thumbing their nose at the Constitution. No, it will get worse, and not just a little. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. By the way, I am not a repug.

The Democrats mindlessly repeat lots of little lies about Obama.  This article does it do.  I’m not even sure its conscious. Its just that there’s been this massive propaganda image-creation campaign around Obama, and people, even good smart writers like Mr. Pfaff who I’ve read for years, seem to repeat it without thinking.

Who said Obama was decent?  Who said that Obama was the candidate of concilliation?  Or that he was the candidate of change?  Does any of this have any factual basis outside of the image-creation campaign.

Face it.  Obama was the candidate of Wall St and corporate America.  So was Hillary for that matter.  It was lose-lose in that Demcoratic primary campaign.  Obama broke all the Bush records for raising corporate cash in a campaign.  Corporate America switched sides in the last election, resulting in Obama having over $700 billion in bribes\contributions in his accounts.  That’s several hundred more than the old Bush record.

So, what did people expect?  When the same big money that supported Bush now supports Obama, did they really think that electing Obama would result in a change of course?

Forget all this nonsense about mediocre advisers and how he’s making a mistake by listening to the pundits.  That’s all just more propaganda that the Democrats spin out every time the people start to notice that what they do in office is very different from what they say in the campaigns.

The fact of the matter is that there is very little difference between the Dems and Repubs.  They both are backed by the same money.  And they both provide exactly the same service and policies when elected.

If people want the wars to end. If people want a government that doesn’t just serve their big money backers, then people have to learn that they have to vote for candidates other than the Dems and Repubs.

Not sure if this was some crackpot who just left his cut-and-paste job or if he’s really listening.

The problem, Whit, is not your scripture, which you cherry-pick to suit your bias, though I fail to see the connection with healthcare, unless it’s scriptural authority for believers not sharing with unbelievers.  Matter of fact, my own favorite is from the Savior himself who, I dare say, is as authoritative as Paul: “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.”  Jesus also spoke of the Good Samaritan, whose kindness wasn’t predicated on whether the man he comforted was one of his.  But then, this is only Jesus talking, and anyway I’m sure you’ll find some way of wiggling out of it, as your kind always do.

Anyway, what’s so disgusting is that you have the nerve to quote scripture while preaching the gospel of greed.

Two percent of Medicare is spent on administration, while the for-profit insurance companies take twelve.  There’s your wasted “energy.”  Countries like Germany and Thailand—both capitalist powerhouses with mandated universal healthcare— spend about 6% of their GDP on healthcare, while America spends close to 15%.  And their quality of life—lifespan, infant mortality, etc.—is superior to ours.  Guess that has noth9ng to do with healthcare.

Got news for you, Chief, ALL taxes are about taking from some and giving to others.  They are necessary because if left to people like you—who don’t give a damn about other people, at least those you deem unworthy of your charity—the General Welfare enshrined in our constitution wouldn’t mean squat. 

It’s easier to profess Christianity than to practice it.  You right-wing Bible thumpers ought to realize that you, come Judgment Day, in your mean-spiritedness and greed and talk about “property rights,” will have a lot more explaining to do than the lefties, with all their vices.

Re: Whit

Your comment:  “Why would light want to compromise with darkness?  There is no advantage whatever.  Why would the darkness want to compromise with light?  Any compromise dims the light and is gain for darkness.  The next compromise will take more away from the light.”

I can lead the way.  What do you call a sunset or daybreak, or even cloudy (gray) days.  You are falling into the trap of “black and white” thinking.

“Human beings have a strong need to categorize everything; this is not a fault but rather an asset. Without our ability to take isolated instances, gather them together in groups, and then make generalizations, we wouldn’t have math, language, or even the ability for coherent thought. Without an ability to generalize from the specific to the abstract, you wouldn’t be able to read and understand this right now. Nevertheless, as much of vital asset as it is, it can still be taken too far…...

When we fall victim to Black and White Thinking, we have mistakenly reduced an entire spectrum of possibilities down to the two most extreme options, each the polar opposite of the other without any shades of grey in between. Often, those categories are of our own creation, and we are attempting to force the world to conform to our preconceptions about what it should look like.”

http://atheism.about.com/od/logicalflawsinreasoning/a/blackwhite.htm

JimM72: The insurance companies are giving over 1.4 million dollars a day to the politicians to thwart this bill. The fringe groups sheeple, some are paid by “special interest” groups representing big pharma-insurance, but most are sheeple along for the ride and know nothing of what they protest. Dick Armey is up to his neck in it among other loyal Bushite Repugs.
You forgot the gun rack in the back of the cab window along with your guns for your new look. Have fun with it.

Rod: Your comment that the health care bill is health care rationing. What do you think that the big insurance companies do now? They ration and don’t think they don’t. They make patients jump through hoops just to get the end result which many times would have been cheaper to do a procedure first instead of going from step 1-10 before they proceed with the correct and more cost effective treatment to begin with. Sometimes they deny legitimate treatment over and over in hope that the patient either gives up or dies while waiting for treatment. Sometimes they will pay for something similar, but not what the doctor ordered or what is in the best interest of the patient, for example medication, generic or real. Often times generic medications cause other complications for a patient and end up costing the insurance in the long run but make the patient either go without a needed medication or take the one that causes problems, as they will pay set amount for this drug, but will not allow that set amount to go toward the real medication if the patient is able to find the price difference.

For those who are doing the yelling about not wanting “socialized medicine” I say give up all your social security payments, Medicare, Medicaid and any other form if help from the government and never collect from it the rest of your lives if this is how you feel. But for those who have need of assistance, why do you want to deny them help? Are you so well off that your own private insurance, which you certainly must have as you protest to much to not have it, that you are so secure that they will cover you until you die no matter the problem and never have to worry that if you become an expense to their profit margin, they will still cover you? Didn’t think so. Just get really sick or have a long time condition and watch your premiums go up and your coverage go down, that is if they decide to keep you as a client.

America is the only country that I know of that has for profit medical insurance, the key word being for profit. It has the most costly care and has poor results. Why are these same people who would benefit from a health care plan fighting against their own best interest. Do they have a suicide or death wish?

Americans needs to look into other countries that have coverage for their people and take the best parts from their examples and come up with a similar plan here. If we can continue to be the world’s police and warmongers, we can certainly afford to cover all citizens with good health care. To do less is shameful.

Obama needs to forget about working with the repugs as they already say they will NEVER cooperate with the ruling party-sore losers. They care nothing for the American people, their actions and words have proven it. So it time to sever the thought and do what needs to be done. The Republican party is a cancerous growth that is killing America, it needs to be excised for the health of the patient(America).

Mr. Pfaff you’ve raised a good point “American Stubborness”, but to point the finger solely at President Obama misses a huge mark!  The American people have been sold that proverbial bridge, and still don’t want to see that “they don’t own it”!  The Right wing fanaticism with “The FREE MARKETS” and the left wing that has bought into this theory and the American public that’s currently defending that which they don’t see is SCREWING them royal is the problem!  The “FREE MARKET” is only FREE to the 10% of Corporations & rich Americans that are benefiting from (1) slave wage labor in the countries that they have exported to, (2) the prostitutes in Congress that have deregulated, rewritten the rules, and taken the teeth out of the agencies that are supposed to defend Americans over the Corporations, (3) a corporate owned media that isn’t about to print the real truth -that this nation is being ill served by the lies told by the politicians and talking heads, (4)a serious dumbing down of the American people by “cultural bs” diversions which have nothing to do with the real issues of how badly we are being ripped off!

President Obama may be a bit too pragmatic, in wanting to have the Right join onto his policies, but he’s also been to NICE to those in his own party that are whoring for the Corporate agenda!!  A corporation by definition is created to profit, period!  What Americans need to ask themselves is how long do they believe that we as a country need to suffer at the hands of the CORPORATE OLIGARCHY, how many more need to die because of insufficient healthcare, housing, race to the bottom jobs, before they too, are ready to storm the BARBARIANS AT THE GATES?!?!?

Concision, Psmith, consicion.  That is what Chomsky was told he lacked when refused time on TV.  And that is what is necessry to explode the power delusions instilled in the American people by the mainstream truth.

Green on Counterpunch today finally said something worth while in the midst of his policially scientific drivel.  He said that Obaama was a disaster.  This is true.  He is the Dem counterpart of Bush, the Great Disaster as president, whose policies he is continuing.  The Great Black Hope, a public relations phenomena of the US ruling class, simply cannot control or even steer the forces leading the US into barbarism.

Full speed ahead, as the captain of the Titanic said to the steersman.

thank you, prole…I hate the term, but, this article gave me cognitive dissonance (or as Chris matthews call it, “cognitive distance”!).

Wha-a-a-a-t the f*ck are you talking about, Pfaff? You act as though he was, by law, obligated to hire on a bunch of neo-lib-cons.

Outraged—-well, then where is that line? Obama doesnt seem to have one.

Good link , PSmith. John Pilger from Socialist Worker. Obama is the embodiment of Merkins exceptionalism—-gawd some of this is just so unbelievable to me…Power..it is painful to listen to, but everyone should. Race, gender and class can be tools of propaganda—the class one serves is what is important…is there any question there which class Obama serves? Obama the marketer of self, and the faux “good-hearted elite”..

This makes him more dangerous than a conservative.

Are you people really so afraid of being called a bigot that you will let Obama fu*ck you over like this? You must not be very confident of the fact yourselves. Expecting too little is a form of bigotry, is it not?

He cant screw me over—I never believed any of the marketing crap anyway…but for those that did..what are you going to do? Do you let people in your lives treat you like this?? You must be easy to date, for a person without a conscience.

It is strange to think of an Af Am Colonialist, isnt it? But thats what he is. Hillary wouldve been a female Colonialist.

The “health care debate” ended when Obama was nominated. He made it clear during the campaign that he had one goal which superceded all that he had believed in in the past—winning and power. Being part of the elite.

Mr. Pfaff lost credibility about midway through his article. PBHO may have arrived in Washington as the candidate of reconciliation and bipartisan cooperation, but it was clear Congressional Dems were not interested in following his lead as they completely excluded their counterparts in crafting legislation. Mr. Pfaff plays the BO (Blame Others) game for lack of willingness to compromise, but let’s be honest, does anyone here believe that the Congressional Progressive Caucus is willing to compromise on health care reform?

The idea that PBHO is too decent would likely elicit hysterical laughter at Billy Goats in Chicago where veteran Chicago journalists gather often to discuss one of the most politically corrupt city and state governments in the nation. Paris is a long way from Chicago and only a political neophyte (and maybe a writer living in Paris) could keep from laughing at this “little miss goody two shoes” offering by Mr Pfaff.

PBHO threw so much so fast at Americans, that they were unable to sift through mis-targeted legislation laden with pork. Is it any surprise that when the details are finally provided by unbiased sources like the CBO, GAO and numerous non-partisan and bi-partisan tax watch groups, that many Americans feel that their best interests were not served by a Congress that didn’t even read the legislation while hyperventilating about doom and gloom if immediate action wasn’t taken? For goodness sakes Henry Waxman couldn’t even answer a simple question about a bill he co-authored.

PBHO should have prioritized and used his dry powder early in his presidency to push health care through while he had still enjoyed stratospheric job approval ratings. The Dems should have started crafting the health care bill in 2008 and had it ready to go when PBHO arrived in DC. I bet if he had it to do all over again, PBHO would do it differently.

Now think about those Americans that Mr. Pfaff suggests are misinformed and too stubborn to know what’s best. Aren’t these the same misinformed and stubborn folks that elected Senator Obama? Aren’t these the same misinformed and stubborn Americans that rated PBHO at nearly 90% approval rating? Yes that’s it Mr. Pfaff blame others, blame the people.

“the American public is intolerant and too many know little more than what they are told by Fox News and by talk radio, which means that they haven’t a clue as to what really is going on in the world.”  When you have a handful of billionaires controlling everything you see, hear, and read this can happen.

Right now the news media is concentrating on the nuts showing up at the town hall meetings and acting like these nuts speak for everyone.

I just love leftwing sanctimony.  On the one hand you rail against the callousness of healthcare reform opponents and, on the other, slam the so-called Obama bailout, because you want to stick it to the capitalists, even at the cost of millions of economic casualties.

The political crime here is not the bailout but allowing banks and financials to become so big and pervasive that to let them fail would create a tsunami wreaking havoc throughout the country.  Or, to mix metaphors, the tumor couldn’t be excised without killing the host.

Deregulation is the cause of our ills.  The watershed was the breakup of Ma Bell.  Of course, AT&T at the time was a monopoly in the sense that today’s cable companies are monopolies.  The difference is that as a utility, ATT was tightly regulated.  It’s said that ATT, though it fought the breakup puclicly, secretly wanted to be broken up to escape regulation.

Then there were the airlines, deregulated under a skeptical Jimmy Carter.  The current state of the industry is a case study of the self-consuming nature of unfettered capitalism. 

Then the trucking industry.  Then the energy industry (Remember Enron, and what it did to California?)  Then the communications industry.

The deregulation and lax oversight of financial markets facilitated mischief-making, and the repeal of Glass-Steagall allowed banks and brokers to become “too big to fail”.  This means not that they deserve not to fail but that each became such a big force in the economy that letting them fail would be far more damaging to real lives than bailing them out.  In a real sense, they held the nation hostage.

So, enough of this childish slamming of Obama for the bailout.  He and Geitner and Summers did what they had to do.  They paid the ransom.

This article is too partisan and leaves out Obama’s record. Obama has taken pride in voting along with Dubya most of the time. He even threw the base under the bus all throughout the campaign. Not all of us Americans are stubborn. We’re just angry and upset at our pathetic leadership of both parties persecuting the working class and doling out more corporate handouts to their big corporate cronies who put them into office to begin with. I like regulated capitalism and socialism but I cannot stand unfettered capitalism. Obama wrongfully sided with bailing out the corporate crooks and therefore keeping unfettered capitalism alive. This article looks like it was written by an elitist trying to keep us working class voters divided !

Waiting for Obama is like Waiting for Godot or Waiting for Lefty. He has nothing, however,to wait for. The Dems are largely Wall Street/Pentagon Dems as are the Republicans. Pro War,pro empire,pro big business—these folks spell ruin for our country…and still we wait….

Photo caption: “A woman opposing health care reform gives a thumb-down sign while listening to panelists during a health care town hall meeting in Alhambra, Calif.”

I think “listening” is the wrong word.

Internet forums present the professional writer a fertile field for harvest. You’re welcome, Mr. Pfaff.  Or maybe it’s just that the obvious occurs to many at the same time.

In the comments for Joe Conason’s 8/13 piece about The Real Death Panels, I wrote:

This is what’s happening with healthcare reform now:  All the spiders and snakes of the healthcare industry have to do is utter the word “socialism,” and the grass roots become an apoplectic mob.  This is why, though Obama and others, including most of us here, realize that single-payer is a no-brainer, we also must realize that in selling it, we’re not up against reason but conditioning.

I think Obama understands that Americans have been held hostage to the socialist shibboleth for so long that we are suffering from mass Stockholm Syndrome.  We have grown so dependent on our hostage takers…that before we can think clearly again, we’ll have to be deprogrammed.  And that will be a very long process.

And…

Lie #3:  America has the best [healthcare] in the world.

Reality:  Not only have we one of the worst healthcare delivery systems amongst advanced nations, we have the most expensive. We may have the most advanced treatments, but what good are they if they are only delivered to those who can afford them?  Ours is a nation of those who can afford to be [sick] and those who can’t.

Mencken said that “no-one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.”  I think this is what Pfaff is also saying in so many words.

The fraudulently named “free market” has had, with NASCAR America as their dupes, 28 years to plunder and despoil the country, through GOP presidents, congresses or both.  Now they are ignominious history, our national nightmare is over, and we can set about rebuilding. (Thanks to our much-maligned-by-the-left federal system, state sovereignty largely insulated progressive states and their people from GOP Washington’s depredations.)

Alas, like religious fundamentalists, which many of them are, political fundamentalists cannot be disabused of their crackpot notions by reason.  Rather than attempting to hold the majority, Democrats must aim to expand their majorities in Congress.  If it takes saying whatever it takes to be elected, à la Obama, then so be it.  But unlike Obama, we must not cave to the special interests for the sake of “passing anything rather than nothing.”  We must have the votes to pass what’s necessary, and to hell with bipartisanship!

This column is excellent.  And I really appreciate the laughs.  Thank you.

We don’t have to worry about “threats from abroad.” At the rate we are going, America will destroy itself long before its enemies can.

“You Can’t Blame Obama for American Stubbornness”

—-

I believe Mr. Pfaff misses the point. What he seems to miss is the majority.

Mr. Obama being “too nice” is a good rationalization, however, it’s merely a rationalization that makes Mr. Pfaff comfortable. Bottom line: To date the American people have yet to endorse a single major proposal from the Obama administration.

I like the president. He appears to be a well intentioned public servant. But he is, in fact, far left of the majority. He will continue to bend to this majority. That is as it should be in a representative form of government.

Honey,I Bought that Scooter!!!!
It is difficult for a Liberal Dem, who has always championed ‘entitlement’ programs- like Medicare,Soc Sec and medicaid. I championed poor seniors who were about to be dropped by their Managed care provider, for one week more of coverage, new glasses, a 3in1 Comode! I have fought for seniors rights- economic and social.
And Now How am I ‘Thanked’ , along with millions of others who’ve fought for Decades to keep the Corp paid Repugs mitts off these programs-By Being denied the very rights I defended and protected for them.
This is a kick in the teeth to every liberal Dems who worked to protect pension plans, health benefits,safety codes granting this group their ‘golden years’. Fought for them when they had no Pensions, Nest eggs to fall back on to cover that expensive long term care. And are now trying to close that damn unpaid for Doughnut hole in Part D!!
Medicare and Social Security are riding on the backs of those contributing today. We pay it forward to the group currently covered. There is No “Mildred Smith’ savings account. You did not pay for that scooter, nor was it ‘Free’- look back we are supporting you as you supported your seniors. Pray to God we take better care of you, then you did them-they didn’t get scooters, or RX coverage. In fact many didn’t get shit because at the time your group was screaming Tax cuts and Privatization. If it were not for Liberal Dems, who fought to reject Bush’s proposal, Social Security would have crashed with Wall Street.
The condition of our Senior Care and long term care is deplorable. The conditions were such I could no longer in good conscience connect my face with the level of disregard by society to this situation, in the mid ‘90’s.I went into the horse industry where I found more humane treatment.Abuse and neglect by staff and ‘insurers’, the Warehousing mentality, the attitude of ‘burden’ by family. So I am well aware of what the elderly are frightened of- the system they helped create over the last few decades. Look at the age of these TownHollers- are they those who just got their medicare cards, cashing in on that SS check? Same ones who have voted for Cuts to ‘Entitlement’ programs for the last few decades?
someone needs to look at the cohort group within the elderly population who is screaming the loudest. I’m bettin’ it’t the “newbies”
How many pregnant mothers could have prenatal vists off the cost for one month of Viagra? We aren’t trying to ‘Kill Granny’ we’re trying to save the 7 out of 100 infants who die at birth. It’s time we address them too.

In reply to C.Curtis.Dillon(and all):

In all peaceful honesty, please provide me some ideas of what I should do?  I unfortunately whole heartedly believe in the public option as it is the only thing in any proposal that may cut medical costs.  Without it, all that will happen is that the insurance agency will be guaranteed more clients and an empty promise to cut costs (Anyone remember promises to stop polluting the water?). Nothing will happen since the medical industry (doctors and insurance companies) have no real competition or motive to change. They are in business to make money. As I sat and watched the smoke and mirrors of Aetna CEO last night on the News Hour, I shook my head and become frustrated with the lack of true discussion.

As a person wanting people to start debating the issues, what am I supposed to do?  I talk to my friends, family, and to a point co workers but my efforts are quickly ignored by the next crappy newscast on TV that covers the gossip of reform - not the true debate. 

So I ask again, what to do?  Educating myself on this site helps but being on this site, in some respects, is just the same for me as for the people who frequent FoxNews.com - I am only ‘interacting’ with people who I already agree with.

Pfaff: “Thank you, Barack Obama, for trying.”

I must have miseed that.  When did he try?

Addendum;

Slickster that he is; Obama may be asking for a mandate he can’t ignore (make me do it), thereby giving him the where-with-all to go against his handlers and financial benefactors with no damage to himself. A stretch? Yes, but one can always hope. No?

By PSmith, August 19 at 2:55 am #

Thanks for that link to;
Empire, Obama and America’s Last Taboo, By John Pilger, - August 18, 2009

Pilger makes a compelling argument which cannot be denied. Bait and switch best describes the Obama campaign. He is a tricky man no longer to be trusted; however there may be a hint about how to get him to do the right thing. Somewhere in his reminiscing of history, there was this about Roosevelt; I recall this being said; “make me do it.” This of course, throws it back on the American people to get off of their fat asses and do something.

re: ardee

Surrender? Is that not exactly what President Obama is doing? Take his rationale for continuing the Afghan war, why don’t any of his loyal followers call him out on that, and point out the utter BS that it is?
Not to go off topic too far, I found this recently from William Greider:
“Barack Obama mainly did this to himself. To avoid the accusation of socialized medicine, he intentionally shrouded his objectives in bureaucratic euphemisms like “public option.” What the hell does that mean? It doesn’t mean anything.”
So shrouding objectives in bureaucratic euphemisms is the best this new administration can come up with?

A one term President? A Republican majority in Congress in 2010? Could happen…..

The article certainly is disappointing, not because it is inaccurate, it isn’t. But because the author seems to throw up his hands in surrender.

To paraphrase the late Bill Hicks: Go back to sleep America, American Idol Reboot is about to come on.

Another professional hack is trying to defend and justify Obama’s spiritless and the so called gutless performance.
The basic fact that is ignored by the article is that we are having the government, congress and the news media are all controlled by big money/corporate power.
So, trying to exhort Obama or the congress or the news media to do this or do that or admonish them because they did this or did that is pointless and futile. Everything has to conform to the wishes of big money/corporate power and that explain anything no matter how strange or illogical that thing is.

Change U can believe in—I suggest he’s the best of what’s around, but—and can’t we just get along ?

Oh wow, where does one start with this issue?  Obama obviously doesn’t have the skills to function in the dog eat dog world of Washington politics.  He is just too much the progressive in his behavior.  We need a pit bull and got a lap dog.  I hear Emanuel is more concerned about keeping medical money away from the Repubs than about getting the health care bill passed.  Seems about right.  Worry about the money more than the electorate which is pliable and stupid.  You can always spin a lie about what happened and they will buy it.  I mean, really, who else are they going to vote for?  It’s Obama or the evil empire Repubs.

The main issue here is controlling spin on the issues.  The conservatives have the advantage on the visuals.  A guy with an AR-15 on his shoulder is a compelling image for sure.  I’ve seen him everywhere.  And the screaming certainly plays well on the nightly news and talk radio.  While the right is in the streets and on the TV, progressives sit at home and watch it all on MSNBC or Bill Moyer’s Journal.  They just shake their heads and cluck about how terrible it all is and what heathens those “other guys” are but they do not lift a finger to counter what is happening.  Don’t want to be seen breaking a sweat or risk that clown actually using the gun in anger.  So the Right wins by being the loudest and most threatening.  You don’t think a congressman has a strong reaction to some guy with a gun?  You bet he does!  He doesn’t want to get shot either.

If we allow the right to gain the “sound bite” advantage, we have lost all our power.  Centrist dems will vote for the status quo every time as it is the safest bet for them.  Only the true progressive politicians have any pressure to make change and they don’t have enough strength to control the process.  Our failing was to believe Obama had the ability to change anything.  He was just a mouth but has no power ... that is evident.  The real power in Washington resided in the capital with the senate.  They set the agenda and determine what is passed.  The house is beholden to them and they know it.  All the house can do is kill reform ... not drive it.

The business about being too decent or nice is debatable. But what is not, in this Internet peasant’s opinion, is that politics, which is ultimately concerned with power and who wields it, does not need anyone who doesn’t know how to slap his own troops into line. As stated in another thread, this more about LBJ than JFK. Face it, if you can’t get members of your own party on board with your agenda (if President Obama actually does have one), then you are just no damn good.

Thanks for the link, Psmith.  I see my comments are being picked up by other blogs, proabably because they are concise.  I think this will be the tendency in the future, because of TV.  A picture will only be worth 462 words.

What can you say about America that makes any sense.

Not much. 

If you are conservative and want to keep traditions alive, you are called stupid and heartless.  If you are progressive and want to make changes you are called communist, traitor and naive.
There is no place for educated debate to take place.

When we can no longer talk to each other about even the simple things that make a society of worth, then what is the alternative? 

The political forest is dry and a hot wind is blowing the dry brush.  The homeless, bankrupt families are angry.  Do you see the fear in the faces of the town meeting folks?

There are those nihilists who want to drop a spark into the dry brush.  They cannot be reasoned with or placated because some people just want to see the world burn.

If we love America, then we must stop calling each other names.

The media loves a fight and they are feasting on our discord.  They glorify the name-calling and nit pick every word spoken.  This yellow-journalism may sell newspapers, but it also starts wars.

The conservatives are very frightened and angry.  They were told that they would have power forever and that their wealth would continue to grow.  They were told that their childrens lives were gloriously expendable in the “War on Terror”. They were told that their children would have better lives and that “brown” people would not take over.

Now that they have lost political power and their wealth is being destroyed and the “War on Terror” is lost and that the “brown” people are pouring in from south of the border and now that Obama is president, the “tower” of lies has fallen and they want it back.

They will fight to maintain their illusions.  Will they light a match to the dry brush?  Are they so selfish that if they cannot have America the way they want it, they will make sure nobody has it?

I don’t fear the Al Queda, it is the Timothy McVeigh’s that haunt me.

I appeal to the media to start showing some responsibility in their reporting.  I know that is difficult when news is just a three ring circus now. But somebody has to start.  Maybe someone as unlikely as Rupert Murdoch will realize that his legacy is best served as peacemaker and not kingmaker.  One can only hope.

Pfaff said:

“Can anything be done about this? I doubt it. The combination of prejudices concerning socialism and the supremacy of the American system that Americans seem to acquire in the womb, with Republican electoral nihilism, is probably impossible to overcome. Thank you, Barack Obama, for trying.”

This says it well. We are a a nation of parochial imbeciles. The situation here is simply hopeless.

Quote: “I think the president is simply too decent. Washington is not a nice town, and the American public is intolerant and too many know little more than what they are told by Fox News and by talk radio, which means that they haven’t a clue as to what really is going on in the world.”

There simply is too much intolerance in America, I agree.  It is seen everywhere, “my way or no way”.  It’s one thing to argue a debatable point, but this is not what goes on.  Too many, simply stomp their childish feet and want their way.

They won’t debate a point/issue because they can’t debate a point/issue, and you have to admit, it is true.  They’ll use anything they have to get their way.  So they use their MOUTH because it’s the only thing from their shoulders up that in is operating condition, yet even this malfunctions….. they certainly are a sorry lot.  It is no wonder President Obama shows them such an extraneous degree of pitious patience.  But there is a line, there is a line.

Obama is just another puppet.. a nice little black puppet. Mwahahahahah…  *dark evilish laughter*

“You Can’t Blame Obama for American Stubbornness” but you can blame much of the American public for Obama. As well as useful idiots like Pfaff and Scheer and Robinson and other media mediocrities that were trumpeting Obama as the new messiah during the campaign and now still desparately cling to their belief in his saintliness. “Is this really the fault of the ‘mediocrity’ of Barack Obama’s team of advisers, and Obama’s ‘astonishing conformism’? I would say that if his economic counselors are mediocre, then”...Obama himself is less than mediocre, he can’t even rise to their sorry level, let alone come up with anything on his own, despite his much ballyhooed ‘intelligence’. “There are distinguished dissident economists whose advice Obama seems to have ignored” which is simply indecent of this deceitful little man. “However, the economy aside, I would make the same criticism of the president’s foreign policy” - but never of the man who thinks he’s president himself, there is of course no relation between the two. “He is doing what the mainstream analysts and the Pentagon are telling him to do about his war”, just as any upstanding “decent” man would do. “Regrettably they are wrong, as will eventually be discovered”...as is Obama himself, as many have already discovered. “Barack Obama came to office as the candidate of ” Wall Strret and big money, and the darling of ‘progressive’ dupes. “I think the president is simply too” deceitful. “Washington is not a nice town, and the American public is intolerant and too many know little more than what they are told by Fox News and by talk radio, [and by Pfaff] which means that they haven’t a clue as to what really is going on in the world.” - whixh makes it all the easier for Obama to pose as something he is not and never was except in the liberal hypocrisy of Washington Post types i.e. “Obama campaigned by offering change, and in practice has provided continuity”. This is what Democrats are for. This is the third “most pervasive American illusion”. “The combination of prejudices concerning socialism and the supremacy of the American system that Americans seem to acquire in the womb, with Republican electoral nihilism” - and Democratic duplicity - “is probably impossible to overcome. Thank you, Barack Obama, for”...lying!