BREEDING COUNTS Pt. 2

Finally he was explicit about their hatred for anyone who tries to wake up their fellows to this state of affairs. NB! The reason that Republicans were so vicious, so incensed and so willing to astroturf their ‘foot soldiers’ ’ protests was at any possibility of losing these extreme and unearned advantages; or of ending up in a more egalitarian system.

As others have said, imagine three years from now when millions have seen that they have health insurance; that they don’t lose it when they lose their job; that they can now actually switch jobs and not lose health insurance. The Republicans will be finished and they know it. As the pre-World War 2 British Conservatives were finished in 1948 when the British National Health System started. - Tony Benn with Michael Moore - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LnY-jy_cE0

Which didn’t stop Margaret Thatcher getting elected thirty years later, but hey, that will be 2039. It will have been a very good run for the progressives by then.

> Europeans accept that Americans are very naive in this regard and tend to treat them like retarded children. 
This sounded harsh on first reading. Were you to say that most of the American people and even more of the ‘US Stuffed shirt class’, in their refusal to face reality behave like retarded children, and Europeans recognize this extremely clearly, it would probably be highly accurate.

Naturally foreigners, and particularly those from countries that were victims of colonization, more easily see the delusions, propaganda and ‘reality distortion field’ more clearly; both because they see it from outside and because they have been educated to see it by previous generations.

To what extent does the ‘Stuffed Shirt class’ recognize the lies but play along and refuse to acknowledge them because they are the ‘home team’s secret advantage’? Ninety percent? Fifty? Ten? No idea. Perhaps some of US can answer that.

The black gene is the superior gene to white; put them together and the black gene is predominant; always good for a laugh at the expense of white supremacists and Neocons. Likewise -

‘Breeding counts’.

@ rabidlyindependent, August 16 at 6:55 pm #
> Ignorance must be bliss.

Probably not. Better to know the truth, good and bad, imo.

But we could ask a Birther, Teabagger or a Health Care Debate astroturf protest ‘foot soldier’ of the Drug Companies, HMOs, or of the AMA . They seem to be (mistakenly) frightened out of their wits. Frightened, and not by accident. Frightened actually by US MSM lies.

No change there, then.

BREEDING COUNTS

@ Folktruther, August 15 at 12:01 pm #
Your post hit a number of nails on the head - I count seven at least - and was very meaningful to me. It was also succinct, which I don’t achieve.

> The Bushites not only used the 9/11-anthrax public relations mass murder to impose the War on Terrorism, but was probably complicit in orchestrating it.  As has been documented by the evidence of 9/11 truthers. but only a fraction of the American people believe it, and a lesser fraction of the Educated classes.

Agree.  I would term what you call the US ‘Educated class’ the ‘US Stuffed Shirt class’. They don’t have the ability to laugh at themselves, or at reality, and particularly they don’t have the ability to laugh at their own delusions and their own attempted brain-washing by the US MSM. They appear to exist only inside the bubble of the ‘reality distortion field’ of the US MSM.

The truly ‘educated’ understand reality very clearly; can be rich or poor, ‘educated’ or not educated, but take no part in the US mainstream delusions. Many are black and other minorities, for a reason that was a revelation when first heard, because it perfectly explains the greater awareness of reality by all colonized and oppressed peoples; even those for whom colonization ended centuries ago. Which means that it is a race memory or ‘race education’ handed down from generation to generation, that carries its gift of superior awareness decades and centuries into the future.

This was the explanation by Paul Robeson Junior of how blacks see whites vs how whites see blacks in an interview about his new book on his father; the amazing Paul Robeson - a genius, polymath and renaissance man - The Undiscovered Paul Robeson - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Robeson

Paul Robeson Junior pointed out a consequence of slavery; that while whites can have a single view of blacks, blacks, in the US, _had_ to be able to distinguish at least five different sorts of whites: those that _would_ try to kill them; those that hate blacks but will only react; those that are sympathetic but won’t act; those that are sympathetic and will passively assist them; those that are sympathetic and will actively assist them.

From The Origins of the Overclass - by Steve Kangas - “Nixon was making things worse with his own anti-poverty and regulatory programs. Between 1960 and 1973, these efforts cut poverty in half, from 22 to 11 percent. Meanwhile, between 1965 and 1976, the richest 1 percent had gone from owning 37 percent of America’s wealth to only 22 percent. (16)”

“At a 1973 Conference Board meeting of top American business leaders, executives declared: “We are fighting for our lives,” “We are fighting a delaying action,” and “If we don’t take action now, we will see our own demise. We will evolve into another social democracy.” (17)”

The Origins of the Overclass - by Steve Kangas - http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-overclass.html

A pal on hearing this told the story of a bunch of very rich Republicans at a convention laughing at the extent to which they cheated the system, sheltered their income with personal expenses written off as corporate expenses; laughed at the extent to which they avoided paying tax. He quoted Warren Buffett’s remark about his secretary paying a higher rate of tax than he does and how this was madness. He also pointed out the Republicans’ utter contempt for the working and middle classes and those who don’t understand how the system is ‘fixed’.

BREEDING COUNTS

@ Folktruther, August 15 at 12:01 pm #
Your post hit a number of nails on the head - I count seven at least - and was very meaningful to me. It was also succinct, which I don’t achieve.

> The Bushites not only used the 9/11-anthrax public relations mass murder to impose the War on Terrorism, but was probably complicit in orchestrating it.  As has been documented by the evidence of 9/11 truthers. but only a fraction of the American people believe it, and a lesser fraction of the Educated classes.

Agree.  I would term what you call the US ‘Educated class’ the ‘US Stuffed Shirt class’. They don’t have the ability to laugh at themselves, or at reality, and particularly they don’t have the ability to laugh at their own delusions and their own attempted brain-washing by the US MSM. They appear to exist only inside the bubble of the ‘reality distortion field’ of the US MSM.

The truly ‘educated’ understand reality very clearly; can be rich or poor, ‘educated’ or not educated, but take no part in the US mainstream delusions. Many are black and other minorities, for a reason that was a revelation when first heard, because it perfectly explains the greater awareness of reality by all colonized and oppressed peoples; even those for whom colonization ended centuries ago. Which means that it is a race memory or ‘race education’ handed down from generation to generation, that carries its gift of superior awareness decades and centuries into the future.

This was the explanation by Paul Robeson Junior of how blacks see whites vs how whites see blacks in an interview about his new book on his father; the amazing Paul Robeson - a genius, polymath and renaissance man - The Undiscovered Paul Robeson - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Robeson

Paul Robeson Junior pointed out a consequence of slavery; that while whites can have a single view of blacks, blacks, in the US, _had_ to be able to distinguish at least five different sorts of whites: those that _would_ try to kill them; those that hate blacks but will only react; those that are sympathetic but won’t act; those that are sympathetic and will passively assist them; those that are sympathetic and will actively assist them.

From The Origins of the Overclass - by Steve Kangas - “Nixon was making things worse with his own anti-poverty and regulatory programs. Between 1960 and 1973, these efforts cut poverty in half, from 22 to 11 percent. Meanwhile, between 1965 and 1976, the richest 1 percent had gone from owning 37 percent of America’s wealth to only 22 percent. (16)”

“At a 1973 Conference Board meeting of top American business leaders, executives declared: “We are fighting for our lives,” “We are fighting a delaying action,” and “If we don’t take action now, we will see our own demise. We will evolve into another social democracy.” (17)”

The Origins of the Overclass - by Steve Kangas - http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-overclass.html

A pal on hearing this told the story of a bunch of very rich Republicans at a convention laughing at the extent to which they cheated the system, sheltered their income with personal expenses written off as corporate expenses; laughed at the extent to which they avoided paying tax. He quoted Warren Buffett’s remark about his secretary paying a higher rate of tax than he does and how this was madness. He also pointed out the Republicans’ utter contempt for the working and middle classes and those who don’t understand how the system is ‘fixed’.

Contd

Unfortunately it is a little late to think that the U.S. couldn’t/shouldn’t have anything to do with torture.  But it is not too late to do something about it.

If you are an American voter and you are not personally willing to electrocute someone or beat the crap out of a restrained prisoner then you have a duty to be in favour of investigations and punishment of all involved. 

It’s just one of those responsibilities that comes with a democracy.

Have we lost our minds?
America should have anything to do with torture.

Good post Rabid,

I have been waiting for someone to respond sensibly to the “torture works” comments in here.  If it works so well, why were Bush and Blair so confident about connections between Saddam and Al Qaida?  Why so sure the WMD in Iraq despite all the on-the-record material refuting this?  I’d say because Cheney and his ilk got some torture victims to tell them so.  Now they have nothing reasonable to justify their positions (as they can’t admit the torture) so they both look like buffoons.

Torture seems to work at terrorising populations (albeit at the cost of establishing deep seated hostility and hatred of the torturers and all they stand for) but it doesn’t work at getting intelligence.

So, all the “24” / ticking-bomb justifications are BS and no-one with any decency could want anything other than full investigation and punishment of torturers and those who give the orders.  Granted this didn’t start with the 43rd president so take it right back as far as the path leads.  They can all go down.

For Information on Gog and Magog, read Genesis. For literalists, everything is interpreted as having something to do with end times, when two glorious things will happen. 1) God’s people will be taken to paradise, heaven, what-have-you and the rest of us heathens will be punished for all eternity. (“Heathens,” by the way, includes anyone who does not believe as the crusading crackpots do, including mainstream Christians.)

The Crusading crackpots of all organized religions won’t be happy with paradise or heaven alone. They will only be happy when everyone else is suffering the fate of the damned.

It is the belief system of children who want to see their classmates or siblings punished more or every bit as much as they want a fudge Sundae for themselves.

Yes, torture works. It will get anyone to say what they think the torturer wants to hear. It’s a sure fire way to get the Intelligence one wants, not necessarily good Intel., especially when the interrogator asks leading questions.

I think Chirac was trying to assess just how religiously insane Junior was at the time. We all know now that Junior’s religion was used against him by the likes of Donald Rumsfeld and Cheney, but we also cannot forget Junior’s stated belief that a war president could accomplish much more domestically than a peace-time president, a belief no doubt shared by Karl Rove and others.

Even though I have lived through the last 8 years, paying attention from day one, not to mention the last 45 years, it is still hard for me to comprehend how badly things have gone for our country and the horrors committed in our name and with our blood and treasure.

Ignorance must be bliss.

one thing i’ve haven’t read on this posting is how the american police uses torture to bring about the civilians compliance with their wishes.  you can see tasers misused every day.  if that isn’t torture, what is?

http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2009/07/praetorian-presumptions.html

“The individual is handicapped by coming face to face
with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists.” —J. Edgar Hoover

“No, Hippie4, Americans do NOT like conspiraciy theories that conflict with the American worldview.”—Folktruther

And yet after your thesis you proceed to note a conspiracy theory that does just that. The CTs I know about are invariably anti-establishment and anti-authoritarian. The World Trade Demolition, the Warren Report (who killed JFK), the GOP conspiracy to get the Clintons, UFOs are in New Mexico…all these refute the American world view that this is a democratic republic under a federalist model. They suggest another, shadow government, or cliques within (Skull and Bones, “C” Street) that undermine the will of the People.

Am I missing something, Folktruther? I do feel a bit woozy from last night; too much of a good thing if you catch my drift. Maybe I misunderstand “American worldview”?

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” - Voltaire

“It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.” - Voltaire

Chirac reportedly said he was calling because he was distressed that President George Bush had twice telephoned him to inform France’s president that this war was beginning, and urging France to join the United States in fulfilling the divine prophesy.

All you can do upon reading some lethal absurdity like this is shake your head and flash a sick grin. Others may feel like going back to bed and sleeping indefinitely.  If you want to know why the United States will gradually die as a nation, this little anecdote tells it all.

No, Hippie4, Americans do NOT like conspiraciy theories that conflict with the American worldview.  The Bushites not only used the 9/11-antrax public relations mass murder to impose the War on Terrorism, but was probably complicit in orchestrating it.  As has been documented by the evidence of 9/11 truthers.  but only a fraction of the American people believe it, and a lesser fraction of the Educated classes.

The US mainstrream Big Truth is that there are no conspuracies involving the powerful against the people.  Most of the Educated believe it to varying extents.  Europeans accept that Americans are very naive in this regard and tend to treat them like retarded children.  The Warren Commission was probably the biggest public relations fraud in history, but I accepted for nearly a decade until I read RUSH TO JEDGEMENT.

William Pfaff is right!

Why has this not been made public?

“Chirac reportedly said he was calling because he was distressed that President George Bush had twice telephoned him to inform France’s president that this war was beginning, and urging France to join the United States in fulfilling the divine prophesy”

“Divine prophesy”? or some kind of Satanic destruction?

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Wouldn’t you think that with the millions of possible techniques available to an educated society, war and torture could be avoided?

I believe we’re all controlled to a certain extent; someone suggested that Presidents may be subjected to mind control and why not? You don’t want someone who can plunge the world into war, falling into a major psychological depression.

Bush really was a mess: a non-drinking alcoholic with a Knights Templar complex, Dubbya could drive a bicycle into a tree or choke on a pretzel stone cold sober.

Americans like conspiracy theories and the idea of political mind control has lots of juice; unfortunately there’s usually a better (if mundane) explanation. Obama sometimes speaks slowly because he is dissembling; Bush ran into the tree because he was unhappy being POTUS and easily distracted; Ford fell down because he drank too much after pardoning Nixon.

And our Presidents knew for years what we have only dared to think about lately: that we torture, overthrow democratically-elected governments, steal, lie, sabotage, manipulate. The exercise of power has always been an ugly business and it isn’t any kinder or gentler as far as I can see.

Several must have been brain washed to have authorized this operation. The first thing I learned about psychology was that most of the theories are bullshit.
This program was a motherload of BS from start to finish when ever that may be.
Please let there be indictments and convictions to follow. Failing that, let the all participants interrogate each other until they confess.

Hey David, don’t become what you hate.  They see themselves as putting down rabid dogs.

@Night-Gaunt, I have also heard of sleepers, she was not a sleeper.  She was very obedient to her spy masters and was aware of herself as she did her work.  I don’t know what she was doing spying on Greenpeace.  It made the Dutch papers when they were kicked out.  I could guess and suggest that she could remember the names of Greenpeace’s big donors without taking notes but I never learned anything like that.

I have heard of such techniques used to make ordinary people agents of a sort. Not brain washed but a personality fractioned off to be activated separate from the main one. Artificially inducing Multiple Personality Disorder but under hypnotic trigger control. Who knows how many people are that way and not know it. Some say that when that horn sounded it was a trigger for Jack Ruby to kill Oswald. Who knows? We know people can be conditioned that way. But how many and for doing what I don’t know and could only speculate on.

the radio personality Long John Nebel’s wife was found to have been done so in that way. She wrote a book about it in the late 1970’s.

The Charles Bronson movie “Telephon” was about just that. A phone call to people who were the deepest of sleeper agents. Once triggered they would do the preprogrammed op and kill any in their way.

Another part of the “dark side” that is still with us.

First, remember back to January when there was a good feeling that America had decided to move away from neoconservative imperialism.  Now welcome the “tea party patriots.”

I am familiar with a different stream of American torture.  The folks I deal with start with deniability, so though they are empowered by the senate committee on foreign relations they use no easy label.  Their favorite tool is hypnosis.  Those not familiar with hypnosis may understand that you can get someone at a Kreskin show to stand in front of a crowd and cluck like a chicken or invent a language to speak with space aliens.  You can also see that clinical hypnotists get clients to quit smoking or lose weight at a rate not to different from a placebo.  It is powerful on the conscious, ineffective on the subconscious. 
My ex-wife had been hypnotized from the time she could speak as a baby. This was done to make her a good secret agent woman.  The authority of her fathers voice during hypnosis was very close to an unquestioned path.  An agent gave me a paperback book on hypnotism from the fifties that has a chapter about hypnosis at war.  It also states that a hypnotized subject was sent to walk around a block and could remember every license plate number parked on the block.  It is in that respect that she was used with hypnosis.  In the early 90’s she was kicked out of Greenpeace in Amsterdam with a dozen other CIA agents. 

Hypnosis can also effect short term memory.  When Kreskin wakes a subject that is clucking like a chicken, they will tell him that they do not remember clucking like a chicken.  The Secret Service or similar agency has a team that uses this technique in a process call “canvassing.”  I witness a group of agents disguised as evangelicals passing out pamphlets on Jesus.  There were only a few people on the street and the agents approached each one and removed their memory of me.  If an event like an assassination takes place in view of a small number of the public they can be “canvassed” and no one will remember seeing anything.  In discussions about canvassing, the U.S. government position was that the government had the right to hypnotize anyone at anytime. 

When the government wants information about the Al Qaeda network, I am certain they use hypnosis.  Coupled with a high-tech lie detector, a civil interrogator can get real information out of anyone pulled off the battle field in Afghanistan.  Brainwashing in a misnomer not a myth.  Mitchell and Jessen probably use hypnosis in their basket of torture techniques.

TORTURE - MASS PSYCHOSIS - WE _KNEW_ Pt 2

RADICAL EVIL - ABSOLUTE EVIL - THE DEVIL
Why worry about an old 1987 seminar entitled Facing Evil?

You may have noticed that if we don’t face these things, they return. And this time has been _much_ worse than previously. To the point of sending half the American population partway down the road taken by the German people after 1933. Towards mass psychosis, and the urge to start a World War. By seeing evil in the other and not firstly in themselves. First in the 911 ‘hijackers’. Then in the Afghans, the Iraqis and now the Iranians. None of whom had anything to do with 911.

The ‘hijackers’ were supposedly Saudi Arabians, but several are alive and well—victims of identity theft. Saudi Arabians, if that were relevant to anything, because we don’t know how 911 occurred. But we do know what ‘they’ are covering up. Namely several very strange actions by Cheney on the day of 911. What was Cheney doing in the corridor to the bunker from 9.20am to 10.05am?—What did Norman Minetta hear? Peter Dale Scott, in The Road to 911 asks. Peter Dale Scott - Cheney on 911 -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDZR72PPUO0

OBAMA - STOPPING THE TILT TO MADNESS
We are not out of the woods yet. Though we have a new beginning with President Obama’s election and the one hundred and eighty plus million who were moved to action to stop the Bush Cheney tilt to madness.

Daniel Ellsberg and Peter Dale Scott recommend that all Americans read Defying Hitler by Sebastian Haffner. If they do it should produce a shock of recognition at how far Cheney took the US down the path of the Germans -

http://www.amazon.com/Defying-Hitler-Memoir-Sebastian-Haffner/dp/0312421133

REACTION TO FRENCH TORTURE IN ALGERIA
The French used it. All colonial powers used it. Battle of Algiers shows it - at the beginning. It also shows the perfidious colonial power getting booted out by people power; very satisfying. ‘Don’t try this at home’. -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWC6SstptmE

TORTURE - MASS PSYCHOSIS - WE _KNEW_

TORTURERS
Those doing the actual torturing are better NOT being sadists—better for the sociopaths ordering the torture—worse for the rest of the world, obviously.

Whether they are psychopaths before they start, they are likely to be so after they have done it. Jung reported that, after World War Two, ten percent of the German population were ‘hopeless psychopaths’. Presumably by practise at psychopathic behaviour during the war. Up from the three percent in most populations; unless they have worked at it like the Nazis did and like the US under Cheney did. See below:

FACING EVIL by Harry Wilmer
> my question is where on earth could they find any individual capable of doing it?

PHILIP HALLIE
A veteran of World War II, Philip Hallie, researched evil and came to believe that it was more important to ask “Was it cruel?” “Because cruelty has authorities. Its victims.” He had previously enjoyed firing phosphorous shells into Mannheim and watching people burn alive. He had then seen beautiful German heads lying in the streets, decapitated by the shell fragments. Did he have PTSD? Oh YEAH. But he put it to good account by studying evil; important work.

He answered this very question at a 1987 seminar organized by psychiatrist Harry Wilmer, of the Saledo Institute for the Humanities. The specific answer is not terribly helpful, but the rest of his address, and that of others, is vital in helping us choose not to participate in evil. imo.
...
Harry Wilmer: There is a worldwide cruelty that I have had a little experience with, dealing wtih some of its victims, that should affect all our consciousness and that we might be able to do something about - that is, the torture of people that is so widespread in the world. Would you say something about that?

Hallie: As you know, torture is a very special aspect of cruelty. It usually involves crushing somebody for purposes of extracting information. There are two ways, in general, that we torture or hurt other people. One way is for pragmatic reasons. There is something that we want that’s valuable, much more valuable to us than the life or the happiness of this person, so we destroy that happiness to get the something that we want. The other way is sheer perverseness - that is to say, sadism, you might call it, or the sheer joy of seeing another’s pain. The experience of dissonance between your own pleasures and the pains of the other is sometimes called sadism. Now these two forces are so powerful that even when you can conquer the perverseness, you can hire people who are not sadists to be your torturers. This is very important, and was very important to Himmler. He wanted to hire people who were not sadists because sadists might stop having fun. They might get tired of it, and then they would no longer be functional. So he hired almost entirely nonsadistic people. What I am trying to say is that I have no answer to your question at all, because once you get rid of your sadists you have single-minded adherence to a cause that makes you eager to torture.
...

A book and a Bill Moyer’s TV program resulted, both titled Facing Evil. Facing Evil was previously on Youtube. Not presently.

Philip Hallie - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Hallie
Harry Wilmer - http://www.salado-institute.org/detail_pages/wilmer/notesaboutharrywilmer.htm

SOCIOPATHIC LEADERS
The leaders may well be sociopaths to a man. The Neocon ideology of pre-emptive war ‘and make that a nuclear bunker-busting war,’ with nuclear escalation for _any_ retaliation certainly is sociopathic. And the Neocons rats have jumped successfully from the sinking Republican party to the USS Obama in huge numbers, without turning a hair, along with the Zionazi AIPAC supporters.

contd.

Gog and Magog concern building a wall to keep them out from fighting as I recall. It is the idea of a world war and massive death toll that should be frightening and disturbing to anyone. Though I must reiterate that Dominionists don’t believe in an Armeggedon (or rapture) but do so in a cleansing war of evangelism for the world. Once the earth is made ready then their Aryan-Nordic God will return to rule over them. So there is no escape in that horror unless they are stripped of power to command armies.

If Israel is paranoid and stupid enough to attack Iran they could be in for a world of hurt. If millions of Iranians start attacking Israel all of the time the Israelis will forget about the occasional harassment attacks of the Palestinians and might be forced to use the Sampson Option which is national suicide. Remember Hitler‘s last order as Germany fell? “Destroy everything!” [Use of any nuclear weapons by Israel will contaminate many more millions wherever the trade winds blow..]

As for the likes of intellectual lightweights like jmr who is of fatuous criticism and no substance. You seem to be the “brainwashed” one here in the echo chamber of your own mind. How about some substance? In the essay test you fail due to lack of content.

William Pfaff and the comments in this echo chamber prove conclusively that brainwashing indeed works.

The effects of torture are inversely proportional to the belief in martyrdom.

Ahh… Fascism. . .

The Denial, And Ignoring, Of Our Growing Fascism Is Deadly Stupid.
Because The “Allowing” Has Not Been “Allowed” to be Stopped -

I Fear That, More Than Them.

Its standard Democrat mythology that torture only began with the Bush administration.  This both deflects from the Clinton era’s abuses, and it also feeds the myth that Obama ended American torture by reversing a couple of Bush’s executive orders.

America has been a supporter of torture for most of its life as a nation.  We tortured slaves that tried to escape, that were suspected of formenting the feared ‘uprising’, or who just looked at a white woman the wrong way.  We tortured the Indians.  We’ve always had police that tortured those they believed to be criminals, and we’ve always had prisons where the guards tortured the inmates.  We tortured in the Phillipines at the start of the century.  WWII was a racist war, especially in the Pacific.  We tortured and killed and sent home body parts as souvenirs to our girlfriends.  We supported ex-Nazis and arrested and tortured the ‘communist’ resistance that fought the Nazis, especially in Greece.  We tortured in Vietnam.  We tortured in Central America.  SOA Watch published the School of the Americas torture manuals in the 1990’s.  That’s the ones we used to teach our ‘friends’ in Honduras and El Salvador and Guatamala and the Nicaraguan National Guard\Contras exactly the best US approved torture methods.

We still torture today.  We as a nation still believes in torture.  We love TV shows like 24 where the ‘good guys’ torture people.  We love cops shows where cops go around those criminal-loving lawyers and beat a confession out of the bad guy.

None of this has changed because Obama reversed a few of Bush’s executive orders.  At best we’ve gone back to the days when the CIA agent doesn’t ask the questions nor throws the switch on the electricity. Instead they stand back and watch our ‘allies’ that they’ve trained in torture do the dirty work.  But that doesn’t mean the CIA agent didn’t pick the victim and command the torture.

And if you really want to know that nothing at all has changed, then watch Obama’s lawyers work their little rears off trying to make sure that not one Bush era official or soldier is ever charged and prosecuted for those crimes.

The comment above referenced Naomi Klein.  An excellent reference.  These same torture techniques have been showing up in all US allies ever since the 1960’s.  What a coincidence.

Remember, the Democrats want you to believe Bush invented torture so you’ll believe the related myth that saint Obama ended American torture.  When he’s really done no such thing.

TORTURE WORKS

Torture is used because torture works, Noami Klein tells us.

Naomi Klein was able to interview one of the victims of the CIA’s perverted 1960s MK ULTRA brainwashing program at the Montreal Allan Memorial Clinic of Dr Ewen ‘Mengele’ Cameron. She described her treatment (for supposed depression) as dozens of ECT shock treatments. The effect of the treatment was to ‘de-personalize’ herj. A married adult woman and mother of two children, her personality was deliberately destroyed and she was reduced to the mental capacity of an infant. This was irreversible.

After spending billions of dollars, literally, the result of the CIA program was that ‘de-personalization’ was produced not with exotic drugs, surgery, or electro-shock, but with two simple procedures. Firstly, self inflicted pain - the use of stress positions. Secondly the complete removal of sense stimulation from the body; touch, sight, sound.

Hence the use today of stress position, hooding or blindfolding and headphones.

Naomi Klein - Torture works - http://www.naomiklein.org/articles/2005/05/tortures-dirty-secret-it-works

Klaus Barbie’s methods - same old same old - http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/Barbie.html

US-organized escape, to Bolivia, to apply those same techniques there for the US - http://www.archives.gov/iwg/research-papers/barbie-irr-file.html

Father Roy Bourgeois - the School of the Americas - http://www.hulu.com/watch/69785/global-voices-father-roy-inside-the-school-of-assassins

John Stockwell -  “Third World War” - Forty years of Secret Wars of the C1A - 6 to 20 million killed - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3ioJGMCr-Y

Naomi Klein - Shock Doctrine - http://www.naomiklein.org/shock-doctrine

MK ULTRA - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA

The story was fictionalized as the film Conspiracy Theory with Mel Gibson. Patrick Stewart played the part of Dr. ‘Mengele’ Cameron. Large parts of the story reflected the true story of Dr. Cameron’s illegal and inhumane treatment of ‘patients’. Needless to say the Hypocratic Oath was honoured in the breach and not the observance. -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PUybiuyOvg

TORTURE IS _SO_ AMERICAN

John Pilger in the War on Democracy explains that the US has _always_ used torture in the third world countries in which it organized coups in and in which it installed fascist governments; a _very_ long list - See William Blum -

http://www.counterpunch.org/blum08062009.html

John Pilger tells the story of how beggars were picked up and used as guinea-pigs for torture classes in Brazil after the US coup there in 1963 (?). The terrible thing was that they had no secrets to reveal. When a class was completed, they would be rested and then used for the next one. Finally, when they died or were no longer useful and were executed, their bodies would be horribly mutilated and left in the street to terrify the local population. Rather successfully, as one might imagine.

In one case a young woman was used thus for two years and then released. She revealed the details. The awful thing, she explained, was that these men were not sadists or psychopaths. So she couldn’t regard them as inhuman and break contact with them.

We also know about this program because, happily, the Tupamaros group in Uruguay got their hands on the class teacher, one Dan Mitrione. They did not gave him a taste of his own medicine, reflecting their moral stature, humanity and the justice of their cause - a national liberation struggle.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKmitrione.htm

The Phoenix program in Vietnam, the Sukarno coup in Indonesia, Pinochet in Chile, Operation Condor in the Southern Cone. All the same. Then the Contras in Nicaragua, El Salvador, Honduras and Guatamalan death squads. The Panama, mighty Grenada, Afghanistan 1, Iraq1, Afghanistan 2, Iraq 2, Afghanistan again today. On and on and on.

John Pilger - Torture is _so_ American - School of the Americas -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5L1VdlktOw

John Pilger - War on Democracy -

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18236.htm

I have to agree with ITW that there are two articles here only loosely related.

On the first part, regarding Mitchell & Jesson reverse engineering SERE techniques to make millions as war profiteers ... it is well documented and well known.  They and their families will have to live with the knowledge of how they made their millions.  I hope their grandchildren are reminded of the facts in primary school.  Evil.

The point made that “brain-washing” didn’t really happen in the Korean War and that the torture techniques were made up entirely in the U.S. after the fact doesn’t quite hold up so well.  I can accept that “brainwashing” didn’t happen and that the confessions were delivered out of fear of abuse rather than actually having had their minds changed.  However the logic that this means that the torture techniques were invented in the U.S. just doesn’t follow.  30 years ago I read an account of a POW from the Korean War who described water-boarding quite specifically.  We have only to look at the “Gulag Archipeligo” to find accounts of sleep deprivation, stress positions etc.  Sensory deprivation identified as a source of great distress through an academic study (the McGill University academic later suicided; possibly when he realised his work was applied to torture).  Sensory deprivation was used (at least) by the British against IRA captives.

The U.S. military are no doubt guilty of many things but not inventing all these torture techniques. 

The second point in the article about Bush actually contacting a foreign leader and suggesting that he join in this End Time lunacy is frightening beyond belief.  How indeed the world survived the last 8 years is a mystery.

Obama’s inability to work against his corporate masters’ interests is a wholly different matter!  Ok, maybe “masters” is an overstatement ... perhaps “funders”.

That Gog and Magog thing IS scary.  It occurs to me that I keep emphasizing how delusional the American people are without focusing on the people in power. 

Inherit’s point that they are incompetant because they are loony strikes paydirt.  Rumsfield did not have an adequate operational plan in place for the occupation of Iran because of his loony expectations.  And posisbly Bush’s incompetance over New Orleans was based on some similar delusion.

When power systems end their life cycle loonyness and fraudulence predominate.  To get rid of the Rasputin, the Czar and Czarina’s Friend, they had to assassinate him.  The Reagans relied on astrologers for their policy ideas.

But when you are on cruise control, like Obama, no superstitions apparently are necessary.  Just keep doing what Bush did.  We’ll all go to hell together, Hippie4.

Whoa!

Apocalypse beliefs can be self-fulfilling prophesies.

Inherit, I think it refers to the belief held by Bush and his coven regarding The Rapture. One theory about GW is he wanted to bring about WWIII in order to create this ultimate sorting out of humanity. In his view, the neocons would oversee our destruction before ascending into heaven. Naturally people like me go to hell, but at least I won’t be cold, or with GW Bush and friends. Oh yes, heathen infidels a.k.a. Muslims would also join me & others for coffee & backgammon.

Scary that a fringe religious fanatic held the power to blow up the world for eight long years. We’re lucky to still be here, all things considered.

Yet another case of the Bush administration doing something obscenely immoral, yet doing it incompetently.

Nor is it a surprise that the USAF, getting more and more filled with religious nuts, would have cooked up something now know to be a total fantasy: Brainwashing.

But what do Gog and Magog have to do with the article????