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Obama’s Military Is Spying on U.S. Peace Groups

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Posted on Jul 28, 2009

By Amy Goodman

  Anti-war activists in Olympia, Wash., have exposed Army spying and infiltration of their groups, as well as intelligence gathering by the Air Force, the federal Capitol Police and the Coast Guard.

  The infiltration appears to be in direct violation of the Posse Comitatus Act preventing U.S. military deployment for domestic law enforcement and may strengthen congressional demands for a full-scale investigation of U.S. intelligence activities, like the Church Committee hearings of the 1970s.

  Brendan Maslauskas Dunn asked the city of Olympia for documents or e-mails about communications between the Olympia police and the military relating to anarchists, Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) or the Industrial Workers of the World (Dunn’s union). Dunn received hundreds of documents. One e-mail contained reference to a “John J. Towery II,” who activists discovered was the same person as their fellow activist “John Jacob.”

  Dunn told me: “John Jacob was actually a close friend of mine, so this week has been pretty difficult for me. He said he was an anarchist. He was really interested in SDS. He got involved with Port Militarization Resistance (PMR), with Iraq Vets Against the War. He was a kind person. He was a generous person. So it was really just a shock for me.”

  “Jacob” told the activists he was a civilian employed at Fort Lewis Army Base and would share information about base activities that could help the PMR organize rallies and protests against public ports being used for troop and Stryker military vehicle deployment to Iraq and Afghanistan. Since 2006, PMR activists have occasionally engaged in civil disobedience, blocking access to the port.

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  Larry Hildes, an attorney representing Washington activists, says the U.S. attorney prosecuting the cases against them, Brian Kipnis, specifically instructed the Army not to hand over any information about its intelligence-gathering activities, despite a court order to do so.

  Which is why Dunn’s request to Olympia and the documents he obtained are so important.

  The military is supposed to be barred from deploying on U.S. soil, or from spying on citizens. Christopher Pyle, now a professor of politics at Mount Holyoke College, was a military intelligence officer. He recalled: “In the 1960s, Army intelligence had 1,500 plainclothes agents [and some would watch] every demonstration of 20 people or more. They had a giant warehouse in Baltimore full of information on the law-abiding activities of American citizens, mainly protest politics.” Pyle later investigated the spying for two congressional committees: “As a result of those investigations, the entire U.S. Army Intelligence Command was abolished, and all of its files were burned. Then the Senate Intelligence Committee wrote the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 to stop the warrantless surveillance of electronic communications.”

  Reps. Barbara Lee, D-Calif., Rush Holt, D-N.J., and others are pushing for a new, comprehensive investigation of all U.S. intelligence activities, of the scale of the Church Committee hearings, which exposed widespread spying on and disruption of legal domestic groups, attempts at assassination of foreign heads of state, and more.

  Demands mount for information on and accountability for Vice President Dick Cheney’s alleged secret assassination squad, President George W. Bush’s warrantless wiretapping program, and the CIA’s alleged misleading of Congress. But the spying in Olympia occurred well into the Obama administration (and may continue today). President Barack Obama supports retroactive immunity for telecom companies involved in the wiretapping, and has maintained Bush-era reliance on the state secrets privilege. Lee and Holt should take the information uncovered by Brendan Dunn and the Olympia activists and get the investigations started now.
 
  Denis Moynihan contributed research to this column.
 
  Amy Goodman is the host of “Democracy Now!” a daily international TV/radio news hour airing on more than 750 stations in North America. She is the co-author of “Standing Up to the Madness: Ordinary Heroes in Extraordinary Times,” recently released in paperback.

  © 2009 Amy Goodman

  Distributed by King Features Syndicate


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MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, August 13, 2009 at 8:57 pm Link to this comment

Anarcissie,

“The Conservative” by Ralph Waldo Emerson is my definition of Conservative.  Here is the first paragraph and a link to a website where you can read it in whole:  http://www.emersoncentral.com/conservative.htm

“The two parties which divide the state, the party of Conservatism and that of Innovation, are very old, and have disputed the possession of the world ever since it was made. This quarrel is the subject of civil history. The conservative party established the reverend hierarchies and monarchies of the most ancient world. The battle of patrician and plebeian, of parent state and colony, of old usage and accommodation to new facts, of the rich and the poor, reappears in all countries and times. The war rages not only in battle-fields, in national councils, and ecclesiastical synods, but agitates every man’s bosom with opposing advantages every hour. On rolls the old world meantime, and now one, now the other gets the day, and still the fight renews itself as if for the first time, under new names and hot personalities.”

http://www.emersoncentral.com/conservative.htm

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By Psychomancer, August 13, 2009 at 8:11 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Query….Is it ok for the Army to infiltrate Militia groups?  Wouldn’t want another Federal Building bombing. 
Did “Jacob” break the rules to the Anarchy group by “infiltrating”?  Anarchists can be such sticklers for rules.

-From the ravings of the Psychomancer

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Anarcissie's avatar

By Anarcissie, August 4, 2009 at 7:14 am Link to this comment

MarthaA:
‘Anarcissie,

CONSERVATISM is maintaining the established order, which is slaves, having property to be able to vote, the ownership society, women not having the right to vote, pole taxes to discourage voting, etc. and socialism for the wealthy has always been. ...’

If you’re talking about literal slavery, legal slavery ended in the United States in 1865.  It has not been necessary to be male or to have property or to pay a poll tax to vote for many, many decades.  The established order now forbids literal slavery and insists on universal adult suffrage.  The limited social democracy instituted under Roosevelt is also part of the established order; so (as Adlai Stevenson pointed out in the 1950s) it is the New-Deal Democratic Party which is conservative in the normal sense of the word.

Many of the people now calling themselves conservatives, like religious fanatics and neo-cons, are actually radicals, again, in the normal sense of the word—they want to make fundamental (radical) changes in the established order, to rescind much of the Constitution and virtually all of the Bill of Rights.  Regrettably, many actual conservatives have lain down and let these people walk over them.

Of course, you can use any words you want to mean anything you want, but I suggest adhering to customary usage if you want to be understood clearly.

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By ardee, August 4, 2009 at 6:55 am Link to this comment

Folktruther, August 3 at 11:52 pm

You seem to conflate cultural conservatism with its political cousin, I do not.

Perhaps the farmer’s refusal to change had more to do with suspicion of government than your stated reason? I believe farmers have revolutionized their industry in the past, and will continue to do so if only for the increased revenue.

I play golf at one club in which the several water hazards are filled with carp, they certainly reproduce. I fished for carp in upstate New York as a child, in small ponds with no access to larger bodies of water, they reproduced just fine as well…..I am unaware of the particulars to which you refer, but when in Viet Nam I found fish to be in rice paddies, used as food sources and reproducing fine. Of cpourse, those fish were chiefly Tilapia, I am unaware if they are a what you refer to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilapia

Tilapia is the third most important fish in aquaculture after carps and salmonids, with production reaching 1,505,804 metric tons in 2002

http://ruscombegreen.blogspot.com/2007/08/foregt-trout-and-salmon-organic-carp.html

Why carp?

Well basically it is one the most sustainable fish requiring the least energy inputs - salmon for example requires huge inputs in terms of protein - other fish - indeed Aquaculture already uses up over 70% of the world’s supply of fish oil and by 2010 that figure will rise to over 90%.

In contrast carp tend to be omnivorous, feeding on snails, mollusks, worms, algae, aquatic plants, seeds and detritus. Abroad they have been incorporated into rice paddies to feed on the insects and other organisms associated with rice culture. Carp are also able to tolerate less than ideal environmental conditions.

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By Folktruther, August 3, 2009 at 8:52 pm Link to this comment

Ardee, there is a sense in which Anarcissie is quite right.

an old friend of mine was a chemist who went to Vietnam, sent by the UN.  The Vietamese people raised carp as food fish, but female carp can’t breed in captivity.  so the carp must be injected with a chemical to make them breed.

Vietnam had gotten the chemical from China, but they were at odds with China and the chemical was obsolete.  My friend’s job was to update the chemical and reduce the price of manufacturing it.

But a central problem was that the Vietnamese, a revolutionary society, didn’t want to change how they did things.  They were recently peasants and if you changed how one farmed, and was wrong, one could starve to death with one’s family.  this is why poor peasant societies are often conseervaative; most changes threaten to make bad things worse.

He did overcome the natural consevatism in this case, but it was a long struggle.

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By ardee, August 3, 2009 at 7:01 am Link to this comment

Anarcissie, August 2 at 3:55 pm #

“For people of limited means and intelligence, actual conservatism makes a lot of sense.”

Actual conservatism covers a lot of ground I think….

“There is a certain meanness in the arguments of conservatism, joined with a certain superiority in its facts.” Emerson

One may mistakenly call our current crop of politicos who inaccurately call themselves conservatives to be such. They arent and I dont.

“There are few things that are incapable of being represented by a fiction.” Hobbes, in Leviathan

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By Night-Gaunt, August 2, 2009 at 9:25 pm Link to this comment

The problem I see is that the two allowed parties have been infiltrated with radicals of the theocratic kind. Extremists who want a theocratic corporate dictatorship. We have an extreme right in the Republicans and a right wing in the Democrats with very few of them of any decent type. Feingold and Kucinich and a few others who are the odd ones out. As are all of us. None of the other parties have an even chance to run and win. That is the point. Don’t be confused by the term “conservative” which is used by the extremists on the right. The only thing they wish to conserve is their power over our rights. To do what they like to the rest of us not part of the state-church party they want to have.

The idea of a Peace Corps does not compute with the kind of Inquisition/Crusader mentality they aspire to. It is a “weakness” of those of us who are the sheep to their wolves.

They wish to return to those thrilling days of yesteryear of a small clique running the show. No rights for us the peasant class as it was for most of the existence of the republic. Something else they consider a godless abomination in their midst.

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MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, August 2, 2009 at 6:00 pm Link to this comment

Anarcissie,

CONSERVATISM is maintaining the established order, which is slaves, having property to be able to vote, the ownership society, women not having the right to vote, pole taxes to discourage voting, etc. and socialism for the wealthy has always been.  When the CONSERVATIVES-Moderates are removed from the Left—the system will be balanced, regardless of the fascists.  All we have to accomplish is to remove all the CONSERVATIVES-Moderates from the Left, so that the Democratic Party will no longer have a RIGHT-WING. The RIGHT-WING needs to be totally on the RIGHT with the REPUBLICANS, then there will be balance in the Congress.  One has to know the truth about Liberals. Liberals will never vote for the Rich at the expense of the 70% Majority Common Population, if they do, and double-talk that they are progressively liberal, they are CONSERVATIVE sophists disguising themselves as Liberals. Liberals look out for small business and the 90% Majority Common Population, if the CONSERVATIVE Nearly Noble 20% Professional Middle Class are no longer allowed to represent the entire 90% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION.  Right now the CONSERVATIVE 20% Professional Middle Class only represents the CONSERVATIVE 20% Professional Middle Class and the 70% Majority Common Population have no representation.  The only way to have representation is to get the CONSERVATIVES ALL OUT of the Left or Congressionally Legislate a third political party, equal with the other two political parties, to represent the 70% Majority Common Population, otherwise with the Right on the Left, the 70% Majority Common Population will never be represented.

Here is a website on “What Is Conservatism and What Is Wrong With It”: http://polaris.gseis.ucla.edu/pagre/conservatism.html

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By jeremiah, August 2, 2009 at 1:05 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

If you would read my posts you would realize that I believe the bi-partisan system to be long dead, Martha.  No longer do we have Left/Right.  We have Corporate shills as heads of State, even the last Presidents have been working for forces other than the people and Peace.  Obama is the latest puppet…Take off your left/right spectacles and research.  The Left/Right Divide and conquer technique has worked for decades.  Let’s stop the sham right now.

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Anarcissie's avatar

By Anarcissie, August 2, 2009 at 12:55 pm Link to this comment

For people of limited means and intelligence, actual conservatism makes a lot of sense.  If something worked before, it’ll probably work again.  If something is new, one wants to examine it with caution, especially if one doesn’t have a lot of reserves and powers to fix things if it goes wrong.  However, you can’t reasonably call Bush’s regime conservative.  It was a right-wing radical wolf in conservative clothing.  Bush, for instance, established the principle that a U.S. citizen can be arrested on American soil and held indefinitely, habeas corpus be damned, and he got away with it.  He got a Democratic Congress to sanctify warrantless wiretapping of American citizens, and got away with it.  He invented a couple of wars on his own say-so, and got away with it.  All of that was is direct violation of the Bill of Rights.  None of it has been rescinded as far as I know.  It’s all radical, quasi-fascist stuff, not conservatism, unless you want to say that fascism is now the established order.  Maybe it is.

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By MarthaA, August 2, 2009 at 7:00 am Link to this comment

JeremiahIII and all of like mind,

Sure, sure. It’s ALL Obama’s fault.  Aren’t you forgetting eight years of the AUTOCRATIC CONSERVATIVE EXTREMIST Bush administration.

I admit Obama should follow his own star and quit following the road map of the AUTOCRATIC CONSERVATIVE EXTREMIST administrations, but he doesn’t appear to be so inclined, but in no way does that make everything ALL Obama’s fault.  Obama by himself can’t turn it around.  The people have to take down the amount of CONSERVATIVE EXTREMISTS in the Congress with the vote.  Especially, the Left, there should be NO CONSERVATIVE-Moderate EXTREMISTS on the Left, and the only way for them to go is for the people to VOTE THEM OUT.  Blaming Obama doesn’t release you from your duty to get the AUTOCRATIC CONSERVATIVE EXTREMISTS OUT OF CONGRESS.

There are ONLY two political parties.  There can’t be any balance in government until the people, AS A WHOLE, realize the only way these two political parties can be balanced is if the people balance them.  As long as the people LIKE YOU are out in “la la land” CONSERVATISM will continue to rule both parties, when CONSERVATISM is only on the RIGHT. 

When YOU get CONSERVATISM out of the Left, YOU will have balance politically between both parties, but as long as you hold on to CONSERVATISM as your SAVIOR, there is no way to have balance. 

OBAMA is not the problem, YOU ARE, and all like YOU that are holding out to keep AUTOCRATIC CONSERVATIVE EXTREMISTS on the Left, or think YOU are an AUTOCRATIC CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN, when YOU are a part of the Ninety percent MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION that constitutes the Entire Liberal Left.  If the Liberal Left could gain back the entire ninety percent COMMON POPULATION, so that there isn’t any CONSERVATISM rearing its ugly head on the liberal side of Congress, there will be change, but one man can’t do it, even if that one man is President of the United States. 

Regardless of what you may think, it isn’t the LIBERALS that are causing and have caused the economic crisis in the United States, it is and has been the AUTOCRATIC CONSERVATIVE EXTREMIST REPUBLICANS and their toadies on the Left that infiltrated the Democratic Party.

The ONLY solution is for the people to vote all CONSERVATIVES OUT.  Selfish Conservatism plays like it is fiscally protecting YOU, but CONSERVATIVES are not concerned about YOU at all, only POWER and CONTROL to make the wealthy, more wealthy.

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Gulam's avatar

By Gulam, August 1, 2009 at 6:18 pm Link to this comment

No way is the left coming out on top in this. When the economy crashes the great mass of Americans will blame the Jews, just as has been done lo these many times in European history. Tthe Church will go along as it always does. I can think of several Jewish friends who have already left the country and are living abroad, as I am. When the stock market crashed in 1929 of fifteen hundred seats on the Berlin exchange, twelve hundred were in Jewish hands, and Jewish names are all over this financial mess to a degree that is totally irresponsible considering the tragedy we just saw in the last century. This is not rocket science, it is as straightforward a reaction as any in nature. When the economy nosedives and people are hungry they will do as Americans have always done in a crisis: they have a Great Awakening, an orgy of Christian revivalism. One of these preceded the revolution, the Civil War, and prohibition, and this next one is bound to be a wild one. Obama is just playing a part, holding the stage so that a “black” man can be blamed for the crash. Have you not read the recent statistics? American Christians believe in using torture more than the general population and the vulgar antics of Hollywood and guys like Bill Meher are driving more and more people into their arms.

The bald eagle is second cousin to the vulture and this one has eaten some baloney that will bring it down. The important thing now is now to waste time trying to ward off disaster, but to take steps so that some records and culture survive the crash, so that the Jews manage to get away, and so that our children learn to look around them and remember what raw decadence looks like.

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By JeremiahIII, August 1, 2009 at 6:08 pm Link to this comment

16% of those eligible to vote register to vote, and 16% of them actually vote is what I heard.  The rest are disgusted by the blatant snow job we’re subjected to year after year, decade after decade.  This regime change in November was no “Change” at all.  It has gotten “progressively” worse.  Fascism has taken off its mask and it’s name is Obama.

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MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, August 1, 2009 at 5:51 pm Link to this comment

jeremiah, xypher, Gulam, et al,

Light switch change is not going to happen, but incremental progress is possible.

Medicare came with LBJ.

The Democratic Party is the only party where the 70% Majority Common Population has a chance of making incremental change. 

It has always been my feeling that one must use what one has, not what one hasn’t.

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By JeremiahIII, August 1, 2009 at 5:46 pm Link to this comment

It appears to me that someone here has been reading classics instead of the writing on the wall.

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MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, August 1, 2009 at 5:36 pm Link to this comment

ardee the sophist,

What you are saying then really is that you are old enough to know better, but you do not and cannot figure it out; this is a condition designated by Machiavelli as a “type 3 Brain” in the following quote from “The Prince”:

“And since there are three scales of intelligence, one which understands by itself, a second which understands what is shown it by others, and a third which understands neither by itself nor on the showing of others, the first of which is most excellent, the second good, but the third worthless,...” http://www.bartleby.com/36/1/22.html

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By ardee, August 1, 2009 at 2:45 pm Link to this comment

MarthaA, August 1 at 1:11 pm #

Poor ardee.

Is this your song ardee:
“Gloom, despair and agony on me, deep dark depression, excessive misery; if it weren’t for bad luck, I’d have no luck at all—- Gloom, despair and agony on me”. If this is not your song, it should be.
...................................

I am sorry that your particular illness disallows clear thinking and only seems to lead you to post stupidities and imaginary evidence that is only real to you, in both your guises here.

The fact of the matter is my contempt for you is not an indicator of any such thing as despair or gloom or any of the other nonsense you so childishly condemn yourself by posting. In fact, as I await the birth of my fifteenth grandchild I am filled with the hope that they will live in a better nation and not succumb to the mental illness that has crippled you.

I think you rather ill, frankly, and am sorry for you, but this is a place for political discussion and I am therefore obligated to point out your crap as crap. I do so from a spirit of seeking truth and finding our way out of the gloom our leadership has led us into. If I were not optimistic about our chances to save our nation I wouldn’t bother.

If I am at all pessimistic it is only about your chances to heal…..I think you will go to your grave as ignorant and disturbed as your writings paint you to be.

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Night-Gaunt's avatar

By Night-Gaunt, August 1, 2009 at 1:05 pm Link to this comment

Some reasons why Obama isn’t a liberal;

Posted on DU.

%%%%%%%%%
1. Won’t End the War in Iraq
2. No Accountability for Banksters / Wall Street - they are running his economic team
3. No Single Payer Healthcare
4. No End to Government Spying / Warrantless Wiretapping
5. No End Extraordinary Rendition / Government Secrecy and Censorship
6. No End to DOMA / DADT
7. No End to the War on Drugs
8. No End to the use of Signing Statements
9. An Escalation to the War in Afghanistan
10. Preventing prosecutions for war criminals / torturers - even those who invented/ran the policy at the top.
11. Institute even greater tyranny than even Bush dared suggest via a new “preventive detention” program.
12. Continue Hiding White House Visitor Logs - Secret Meetings - No Transparency in Govt.
13. Supports Increasing the size of the Army by 22,000 (Bush-Obama DefSec Gates proposal “with Pres. Obama’s strong support”)
14. Screw American Workers by allowing Foreign-Hires via H-1Bs
15. Won’t end torture and preventive incarceration of innocent men and boys.
%%%%%%%%%

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By jeremiah, August 1, 2009 at 12:19 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Wow.  I wonder where these people come from!  To say Obama is better than Bush is quite funny.  He’s exactly the same, only AMPLIFIED.  There has been no “change” other than a sped up fast track to tyranny.  For anyone to still believe the Government and its dual-hatted members (corporate/government) actually make decisions for the betterment of Citizens, they are deluded beyond belief.  These “officials” are fast tracking Tyranny, period.  They work for themselves, not people.

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By samosamo, August 1, 2009 at 12:10 pm Link to this comment

By ardee, August 1 at 6:39 am
““The war continues as before and expands in fact. Military spending continues to rise, though some make a big deal out of ending the F-22 program, the bottom line is another increase in the Pentagon’s budget.”“
***************************************************

Absolutely, and here is a worthy reason why they shelved the F-22, drones and the expansion of the use from bigger ‘bomber’ types to small and tiny that can be used in smaller areas and situations.

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2009/07/24-1

So, no, the military budget most likely did not or will not decrease as redirecting equipment and R&D for such things as drones will consume and mandate ever higher defense budgets which, by the way, are illegally kept secret from the public in violation of article I, I think, of OUR constitution which mandates that all money/taxes taken in by OUR government is to be publicly available for viewing.

And it is not a good thing to have others on this post, much less on this site, people still trying to argue that because obama is a democrat that he will ‘change’ things from the past administration(s) thus ignoring the corporatocracy in charge, much less the even higher up ‘elite’ who consider themselves to be masters of this world via the US military, and these crooks that with the help of the MSM are who pick and choose who will be president and who will serve in congress.

And the biggest indicator of this continuation of the status quo that I will just say goes back to nixon, hell, make that LBJ and further back, is the very little ‘change’ that has occurred for the people’s sake, us that elect these jerks.

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MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, August 1, 2009 at 10:11 am Link to this comment

Poor ardee.

Is this your song ardee:

“Gloom, despair and agony on me, deep dark depression, excessive misery; if it weren’t for bad luck, I’d have no luck at all—- Gloom, despair and agony on me”. If this is not your song, it should be.

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By ardee, August 1, 2009 at 8:41 am Link to this comment

MarthaA, August 1 at 10:08 am #

A word to the wise is enough to impart understanding, and no amount of words will impart understanding to an ardee.
..................................

Apparently you wish to be free to post continual tripe, science fiction imaging of our political situations and statistics existing solely in your own, seemingly damaged, mind.

You posted an assumption. I posted a rebuttal of that assumption with specifics, and, in your usual fashion you oppose, not the rebuttal, but the individual posting them.

This is precisely why my opinion of you could not be any lower.

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MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, August 1, 2009 at 7:08 am Link to this comment

A word to the wise is enough to impart understanding, and no amount of words will impart understanding to an ardee.

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By ardee, August 1, 2009 at 3:39 am Link to this comment

MarthaA, August 1 at 2:39 am #

President Obama is better than Bush.  At least now health care for all is being discussed
..........................

None of the various proposals under discussion in Congress insure everyone, not by a longshot. The figures most accept indicate that , under the best of circumstances, 25 million Americans will still remain uninsured. This is far from covering everyone. Further, as for profit health care is the only option we can expect to see, the denials of service for various reasons will continue as well.

A discussion of issues must speak with accuracy or whats the point? As to Obama being better than Bush, I believe that our new president is a better public speaker and that’s about it. His Federal Attorneys are, according to defense council for the detainees, taking exactly the same stance as did the Bush attorneys, exactly as in word for word in fact. Torture and rendition continue, the secrecy in government Obama pledged to end continues as under Bush.

The war continues as before and expands in fact. Military spending continues to rise, though some make a big deal out of ending the F-22 program, the bottom line is another increase in the Pentagon’s budget. The list of similarities continues and Im certain that many here can add to this short list.

Progress cannot be achieved unless we understand what we dace. Platitudes and fantasy tales are no way to achieve progress.

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MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, July 31, 2009 at 11:39 pm Link to this comment

President Obama is better than Bush.  At least now health care for all is being discussed, Bush wouldn’t have considered it, and maybe we will get it, and maybe it will be more than just another bill to pay without receiving nothing, like auto insurance, we will just have to see. The best for the people would be the public option, Obama wants everyone to be able to have medical when necessary, but conservatives and moderates DO NOT and stand against him. In order for Obama to be able to help the people, the people will have to become engaged enough to vote the CONSERVATIVES/MODERATES out of the Left that do not help Obama, at every available chance, no matter what they say. 

One can’t expect one man to be able to perform miracles, and Obama is definitely not performing any miracles, but the people are better off than when Bush was in power and if we can manage to vote out some of the CONSERVATIVES that are on the Democratic side, there will be a possibility of change, it is up to the people.  The people will have to make a stand against all CONSERVATIVES and moderates and kick all of them out of the Left Side of Congress in both Houses, because it is the only way to balance the power.  Since CONSERVATIVES will lie and say they are liberals, we have to watch what they do.  If they don’t vote for the public option, they are not liberal.  In politics there is no fiscal conservatives, all conservatives are political conservatives and all conservatives are NEVER for the public options.

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By Anarcissie, July 30, 2009 at 7:26 pm Link to this comment

Folktruther:
‘Anarcissie- it is impossible to build a movement where infiltrators would nto be a concern.  As Hippie4 says, most movements have them and the more experienced people are more aware of it.  But they can always provoke, distort, and inform to distrupt, and do. ...’

If a movement is open, obviously no one can spy on it.  It is true one will observe spies—I know some people who were recruited to be spies in the ‘60s and ‘70s—but there was nothing for them to spy on.  Then there are people who spread disinformation and suspicion.  They’re pretty easy to detect.  Finally, there are provocateurs.  They, too, are easy to detect if one has decided to avoid violence.  At least this is what I have observed in the fates of various Civil Rights, Black Power, and anti-war groups I have heard about.

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By frak, July 30, 2009 at 7:22 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Who are the street-level undercover snoops for Der Homeland Security and shadow government??
The vast CIA/Military/Mafia that actually runs FEMA and the fusion network ..Plenty of mafs ,vets , sociopaths, plea bargains, gangstas that’ll do anything..And the criminal Fed has control of the dollar printing presses, can print as much doe as needed for the “Slow Motion Nazi And Masonic Cleansing Program” currently in effect..(Katrina and New Orleans was not ineptitude or an accident, among ten million other government abuses and land grabs)

As for the “anarchist” community center called “Pitch Pipe”, why not call it “Throw Bomb” instead?? Traps like this are common across this fascist-overrun country; hippies, punks, radicals, alternative groups make great cover, usually the people targeted have been in the U.S./ IBM/Goebbels “undesirables to be eliminated” database for years, many forced into radicalization, poverty and homelessness by established fascist elements in business, corporations and government (“policy” of the fash, Achtung)..Coming Depression will be ripe soil for Bank-funded rise of fascism and the destruction of the American People’s Sovereignty, which will increase the Elites stranglehold on power and their imperial assaults..

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By Folktruther, July 30, 2009 at 4:31 pm Link to this comment

Anarcissie- it is impossible to build a movement where infiltrators would nto be a concern.  As Hippie4 says, most movements have them and the more experienced people are more aware of it.  But they can always provoke, distort, and inform to distrupt, and do.  In the minority communites they kill as well. Since American is an increasing police state, and elective police state, this infiltration by the military, intelligence and police agencies will increase.  And increase under the articilucate, civilized and moderate tones of Obaam.

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By Gulam, July 30, 2009 at 3:37 pm Link to this comment

I agree with Folktruther and jeremiah that THE myth people need to get over is that the Democrats and Republicans are anything more than two parts of a tag-team wrestling duo. The US political system is very like professional wrestling in many ways. One must be very naive to see it as anything more than Hollywood. How can anyone who remembers Lyndon and Hubert be surprised to see Obama turn so rapidly against his every promise, or rather every naive expectation? The game here is to realize that his baby is going to crash and to begin to think more about how to hold the fort when it does, how to ward off those things that traditionally happen when a Western economic bubble goes bust. Who traditionally gets the blame? Is the public likely to see this minority as worthy of blame this time around? Can we even begin to discuss this obvious perfect storm that we see a coming?

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By jeremiah, July 30, 2009 at 9:07 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Just to set the story straight, the U.S.A. is NOT a Democracy.

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By hippie4ever, July 30, 2009 at 8:59 am Link to this comment

“It would be better to build or cultivate a movement to which infiltration would not be a concern.

If the movement is truly open, then spies are useless against it.”—Anarcissie

I agree with you, and have belonged to several groups where we knew we had government spies. It didn’t matter because we expected it, and didn’t believe we lived in a free society. That was why the groups existed—to create genuine change!

It’s easier to detect these creeps in the cannabis movement. If someone never smokes it’s pretty obvious s/he’s not an activist and then one must ask why they are there? In the anti-war movement, prior to a demonstration, such moles could manage to shut it down via the police, but frankly that’s always a possibility, spies or not. The degree of police interference depends upon the target and frankly the p.o.v. of City Hall and the Chief of Police.  And technology is quite the equalizer—it can overcome the police presence and direct the movements of demonstrators. Those cellphones sure come in handy!

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By Hulk2008, July 30, 2009 at 8:19 am Link to this comment

Why would ANYbody believe that the military would stop doing what it was doing for the last 8 years?  Civilian leaders come and go - remember the conflict between Truman and MacArthur?
    Military leadership is 90% comprised of right-wingers - they subsist on war and preparations for war.  They are groomed to eat, drink, and breathe that culture - from the military academies to the Joint Chiefs - it’s a single mindset- why would they stop doing their “mission” ?

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By Anarcissie, July 30, 2009 at 8:00 am Link to this comment

Outraged:
’... It is my premise that we need to be discerning regarding these matters.  Sydicalism is to totalitarianism what Fascism is to totalitarianism and BOTH are a threat to democracy, there’s only a hair’s width difference between the two, one to the right, the other to the left.

Balance is the key, democracy IS balance (remember) it is also the center point— opposite totalitarianism.’

I don’t know what you mean by “syndicalism”.  A labor union is called a sindicato or something like it in Spanish, Italian and French.  There were and maybe are anarchists who believe that unions, the labor movement, are the path to anarchist revolution or evolution, a view which strikes me as contrary to the historical evidence but not logically impossible.  It is anarchism, the idea that human societies do not need and should not have permanent institutions of social coercion, i.e. the state, that is diametrically opposed to totalitarianism, which Mussolini aptly defined as “Everything within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.”

I don’t see why a democracy could not be totalitarian.  A majority of the people could decide that their state should kill or imprison all who did not subscribe to and behave according to their favorite ideology.

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By xypher, July 30, 2009 at 7:28 am Link to this comment

The first act of President Obama should have been a total and complete erasure of 100% Bush’s Agenda. He did not, he like most politicians in America, is a slightly different side of the same coin.

He made history by being elected then just went about business as usual…which is not making history but kowtowing to our Ruling Corporate Elite.

America as created by the Founding Father’s is DEAD!

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By jeremiah, July 30, 2009 at 7:14 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Janet Napolitano (Homeland Security Secretary) spoke to the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR)yesterday.  Here was her message:

There will be no departure from the Bush administration in regard to homeland security: it will be the same agenda EXCEPT CITIZENS will be engaged to form a Stasi-like network to keep tabs on their fellows in their communities. 


I guess she really fears Ron Paul supporters, pro-Lifers, Christians, supporters of the Constitution, and returning veterans….OH!  And I think “Mystical Nords” was also on her list of terror suspects right here in our American community.

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By RealityBuff, July 30, 2009 at 6:32 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Y’all are missing the rudimentary fact: the President is a president. Y’all are still under the fascist delusions of the previous gang of bullshitters. President Obama is merely the president, not the Glorious Leader, not the all powerful Repug-bullshit superduperpower guy. Just a mere president. Get it? Y’all are demanding fascist powers of the man that he does not have! He can’t sweep away this or that because you don’t like it and because you bought into the Repugnantkins lying bullshit that the President was a dictator rather than.. a president.

Or do you actually want the Glorious Leader bullshit of the previous gangsters to continue.. only to do your bidding instead of someone else’s??

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By samosamo, July 29, 2009 at 10:41 pm Link to this comment

By MarthaA, July 30 at 12:17 am #

This spying on United States citizens is a hold over from the Bush administration and Obama needs to get it in check.
****************************************************

Obama get it in check? That is as preposterous thing as I have ever heard as of late and amazing that you would think it would be something obama would step in and squash it.

Somehow you still refuse to admit or realize that obama in nothing but another continuation in the dilapidated condition of OUR, the people’s, government and the head cheese in charge that was elected because he was supposed to bring change and has done any and everything but do that with his voluntary or not actions, not his slick words, of picking up where the last president not to mention the last several presidents since stupid slick dick nix all started this subversion of our country by those we elect and supposedly trust to do the RIGHT thing FOR the people. In short obama is definitely NOT your’s or my best friend but a continuation of hell that appears not to be stopped because the people are so beguilded that they still believe in fairness and truth in our government, our religious, our economic and our military leaders, all who have every monetary reason to lay their benefits on the shoulders of the people.

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By Dumbfounded, July 29, 2009 at 9:19 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Your facts are completely wrong.  The alleged spy is reported as a member of the Federal Protective Service.  The FPS is police department under the ICE and Department of Homeland Security.  Not the Army or DoD at all.  They are charged with protecting government facilities, personnel and property.  They were well within their jurisdiction to gather intel on groups whose professed aim is to damage, destroy and generally impede the efforts of the federal government.  There is absolutely no Posse Comitatus issues here and any idiot calling for an investigation without doing some basic Google searches is deluded.

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By MarthaA, July 29, 2009 at 9:17 pm Link to this comment

This spying on United States citizens is a hold over from the Bush administration and Obama needs to get it in check.

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By jeremiah, July 29, 2009 at 8:30 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The sad thing is that the Anarchists and Peacefolk in “Cheney’s America” have turned into genocide supporters and warmongers of this current “Obamanation”...(not to point at Obama directly…I think we need to look past him)

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By Outraged, July 29, 2009 at 7:48 pm Link to this comment

Re: Anarcissie

Your comment: “It would be better to build or cultivate a movement to which infiltration would not be a concern.

If the movement is truly open, then spies are useless against it.

If the movement is democratic or consensual, manipulators and con men have little power against it.

If the movement is non-secretive and non-violent, it can’t be turned against itself.”

Thank you.  This is the crux of the matter, in “Cheney’s America” many were anarchists, however currently this is not the case.  This needs to be remembered AND incorporated.

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By mandinka, July 29, 2009 at 6:23 pm Link to this comment

Finally Barak is doing something positive to root out terrorists. Amazing the left shouted and cheers when the feds arrest someone from the KKK or White supremacist organizations but doesn’t want them looking at their threats and practices. They need to be looking at black panthers, la rasa, naacp, greenpeace

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By Eric Cooper, July 29, 2009 at 5:11 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Given the history of oppression that the SDS and IWW have endured over the decades, it astounds me that anyone from a US military base would be allowed such close relations and access to and with members of either group.

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By ardee, July 29, 2009 at 4:43 pm Link to this comment

mmadden, July 29 at 1:07 pm #
You are of course correct in your noting that National Guard troops under the direction of the governor of a state are exempt from Posse Comitatus restrictions.

I would urge you to remember the events of Kent State ( “four dead in Ohio”) and stand against such deployments in future.

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By Bobadi, July 29, 2009 at 4:37 pm Link to this comment

Anarcissie:
“It would be better to build or cultivate a movement to which infiltration would not be a concern. If the movement is truly open- democratic or consensual- non-secretive and non-violent, it can’t be turned against itself.

Bobadi:
I personally know of no Peace Movement that advocated violence, and that is not the issue.
I believe the issue is pretending that governmental spying on citizens exorcising their political freedoms, is the acquiescence to state authority over one’s personal political autonomy.

As an example:

“In their reports, the undercover officers repeatedly stressed that no crimes were in the making.

“No intelligence has been gathered at this point that there are any illegal or disruptive actions planned,” says one document dated March 16, 2005.

“No one advocated any kind of violence or civil disobedience,” says another dated April 7, 2005.

“No problems were observed,” says one on June 10, 2005.

Nevertheless, the agents kept recommending that “this case remain open and updated as events warrant.”

David Rocah is a staff attorney for the ACLU of Maryland.

“To say my jaw hit the floor, to say I’m stupefied, doesn’t even begin to describe my reaction,” Rocah says. “This is downright terrifying and ought to send chills down the spine of every American who cherishes freedom and who believes that we have freedom to voice our opinions in this country.”

Rocah worries that this type of surveillance and infiltration will discourage people from exercising their First Amendment freedoms.

“It is deeply pernicious,” he says. “If your involvement in political activity will result in you being entered into a government criminal database, that will inevitably deter lots of people from being involved in the first place. And being involved in political activity, working together with your fellow citizens, is the foundation of our country, the cornerstone of democracy, the entire reason we exist as a country. If there’s anything more fundamental, I’ll be damned to know what it is.”
http://www.progressive.org/mag/mc071708.html

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By Purple Girl, July 29, 2009 at 3:53 pm Link to this comment

“Bush’s Warrantless Wiretapping”???
‘The CIA’s Misleading Congress’????
Might as well have left it as Cheney’s assassination squad, warrantless wiretapping and misleading Congress.
Cheny Pulled A coupe and now the Repugs (and CEO’s) who aided him in his Treason are terrified of exposure. Reason why they are fanning the flames of this Birth certificate BS. Make Obama appear Illegitmate, so Cheny’s Illegal Seizure of the Powers of the Presidency are diluted. They are hoping the American people will buy the argument that because Cheney can ‘prove’ his natural born status, his usurping of W was OK. His Colossus of Rhodes (wide) Stance Between the Exec Branch and the Senate a vision of Resolve.His Cherry picking intell as innocent as chopping down the cherry tree. His steps in to the ‘Dark side’  of great personal sacrifice.
Give me a Break Obama has been in 6 months and you expect him to have cleaned up every industrialized sized toxic spill Cheney Created- Economically, Constitutionally, Internationally. I’m betting there are a number of ‘programs’ which have yet to be discovered by this admin. Not just those begun in the last 8 years- but possibly 40. Let’s not forget where Cheney,Rummy and Wolfie cut their power hungry teeth on- Tricky Dickey’s Admin. These boys learned how to do it and how NOT to do it and they’ve had decades to perfect their stratedgy and fulfill their agenda… to return the US to an imperialistic Feudal cast system. The ‘British’ aren’t Coming- they never left. W was an empty Frontman, just like Ford, Ronny and HW, and McCain.
Portraying this illegal domestic military offensive as now Obama’s , is as ridiculous as claiming he owns the recession, or Afghanistan, or unrest in the middle east, or healthcare. If this shit hasn’t been going on for decades- it’s been brewing for decades. Please, stop helping the Psychotic Far Right pen tomorrows Glen Beck Show.
Glad you brought this to our attention, but your eagerness to assign blame and complicity rings sensationalism. Perhaps you should take up where you Leaped in logic….‘MAY continue today’- how about following up on that and reporting back to US with the answer.Innuendo, conjecture,speculation and hype are the realm of right winger media hacks and their fawning followers. Lefties should avoid feeding that frenzy.

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By Anarcissie, July 29, 2009 at 1:51 pm Link to this comment

It would be better to build or cultivate a movement to which infiltration would not be a concern.

If the movement is truly open, then spies are useless against it.

If the movement is democratic or consensual, manipulators and con men have little power against it.

If the movement is non-secretive and non-violent, it can’t be turned against itself.

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By jeremiah, July 29, 2009 at 11:24 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Well said, Folktruther.  One problem to getting this message across is that to ADMIT it on a personal level, to make it REAL (it IS real) in one’s consciousness requires total destruction of one’s World View.  Reality is no longer solid.  EVerything we have believed and thought was true is a lie (just about) or BUILT on that lie.  Not only do we have Fascist/Corporatist sponsored education/ media induction to break through, we have people’s personal fears to break through.  The Truth may set us free, and once acknowledged, it will, but the INITIAL STEP, which is ADMISSION/ACKNOWLEDGEMENT of the problem is the hardest one.

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By Folktruther, July 29, 2009 at 10:56 am Link to this comment

The historical function of the 9/11-anthrax public relations homicide was to legitimate a lawless militarized police state.  While all the liberal institutions were still visibly intact but shorn of people power.  It is therefore an ELECTIVE police state, with meaningless elections being held which does not change policy. 

to further depowerize the population, all progressive movements were inflitrated by military, intelligence or police agencies.  Including, I have no doubt, comment pages like TD. 

American progressives obviously do not understand this yet.  Elections and traditional progressive leaders and organs have been nuetralized.  They simply lead the population to support a militarized police policy.  As both political parties do.

It is necessary for the American people to form a new political consensus if they are to resist the worst effects of the economic inequality and oppression.  But it is apparent from the comments on the Gates incident that the professional class is still highly racist.  therefore it may be necessary to begin with the minority races, in combination with other countries, and then reach out to American
Whites.

Such a movement will also be infiltrated, of course.
The the minority populations are much more sensitive to the machnations of the secret police.  And therefore more capable of neutralizing them.

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By jeremiah, July 29, 2009 at 10:17 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I think we need to remember that the left vs. right paradigm is nothing more than a “divide and conquer” scheme.  BOTH Dems and Reps further the same agenda.

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By mmadden, July 29, 2009 at 10:07 am Link to this comment

This article did not mention whether the soldiers were active duty or National Guard. The National Guard does have the right to arrest civilians as long as they do not get activated by the Federal Government as these troops work for the Governor in the state that they are stationed in. Active duty troops have no right to arrest US civilians in country.

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By dihey, July 29, 2009 at 10:04 am Link to this comment

President Obama has unleashed an intensified war in Afghanistan/Pakistan. An increasing number of our soldiers is killed and injured there. The last thing Mr. Obama wants is an anti-Afpak war movement as strong as the anti-Iraq war movement of 2006-2008 because it might unseat him in 2012. The first logical step is to infiltrate potential anti-Afpak war groups to create discord and fear. Nothing new here.

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By hippie4ever, July 29, 2009 at 9:25 am Link to this comment

Ardee, I’m aware of that; this ship is from outside and is one of their flag ships. It’s not a standard vessel. I have a nice view and binoculars, and I am watching THEM.

Turnabout is fair play.

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By ender, July 29, 2009 at 9:24 am Link to this comment

Even before Prescott Bush acted as front man for a fascist coup attempt to take FDR from office,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/document/document_20070723.shtml
the gods of industry and old money that run this country have considered the old military families to be their personal henchmen.  Some of these relationships predate the Revolutionary War.  Likewise, our CIA bipassed the Officer Class and put bankers in charge of our “intelligence” corp.  Thus, our CIA has been efficient as a tool against dissenting American Citizens, but was almost useless against the USSR during the cold war.

My rambling point is that there are Generals that will act with integrity, and there are Generals that are and forever will be henchmen for the ruling elite.

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By Night-Gaunt, July 29, 2009 at 9:00 am Link to this comment

Posted on DU.

%%%%%%%%%
1. Won’t End the War in Iraq
2. No Accountability for Banksters / Wall Street - they are running his economic team
3. No Single Payer Healthcare
4. No End to Government Spying / Warrantless Wiretapping
5. No End to Extraordinary Rendition / Government Secrecy and Censorship
6. No End to DOMA / DADT
7. No End to the War on Drugs
8. No End to the use of Signing Statements
9. An Escalation to the War in Afghanistan
10. Preventing prosecutions for war criminals / torturers - even those who invented/ran the policy at the top.
11. Institute even greater tyranny than even Bush dared suggest via a new “preventive detention” program.
12. Continue Hiding White House Visitor Logs - Secret Meetings - No Transparency in Govt.
13. Supports Increasing the size of the Army by 22,000 (Bush-Obama DefSec Gates proposal “with Pres. Obama’s strong support”)
14. Screw American Workers by allowing Foreign-Hires via H-1Bs (to increase them now)
%%%%%%%%%%
Just a sampling of what we are still getting in this continuity of fascist swing in gov’t. It is a different face but the same play master. The Dominionists.

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By Rodger Lemonde, July 29, 2009 at 8:09 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Obama may be commander in chief but it is still our military. Don’t surrender ground for no reason.
Homeland Futility needs to crumple under it’s own weight, the sooner the better.

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By ntureby, July 29, 2009 at 7:06 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Obama’s military?  I don’t think so.  They own him.  He’s the figurehead for the military and the MIC.  Look at the number of officers who retire wealthy or leave vast estates to their heirs.  The officer corps represent themselves and their own interests (often corrupt).  They are both un- and anti-American.

More and more we have a hidden military government pulling the strings behind the proper civilian one.

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By excostie, July 29, 2009 at 6:49 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The reason the USCG is being used so heavily is that, unknown to most, they have the same legal powers as US Marshalls along the coastline. A legal loophole that does not exist for any of the other military.

I joined the CG originally because of it’s fine rescue tradition. That came to a screeching halt, despite it’s best efforts to say otherwise, and it became nothing more than a police force. If I had wanted to be a cop I could have stayed home and did that. I did not like what the guard was becoming, so I left.. as did many others.

Under the new police push, the internal intelligence office of the guard (CGI) became a gestapo-like agency, with midnight raids and enlisted men being whisked away in the wee hours of the morning never to be seen again. I know this because one young enlisted man who was “dissapeared” had family that was a Master Chief. Through the Chiefs Associations they were able to track him to the brig in Norfolk. When CGI realized that his prescense was discovered, they let him go.

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By Outraged, July 28, 2009 at 10:00 pm Link to this comment

Re: greenuprising

Your comment: “When the most corrupt institution in the U.S. government and the most corrupt class in our society (the generals) really come under civilian rule, we may see a new foreign policy.  And a new domestic policy.  But not before”

I think maybe you missed the hoopla….  From TimeOnline 2-25-2007:

“SOME of America’s most senior military commanders are prepared to resign if the White House orders a military strike against Iran, according to highly placed defence and intelligence sources.

Tension in the Gulf region has raised fears that an attack on Iran is becoming increasingly likely before President George Bush leaves office. The Sunday Times has learnt that up to five generals and admirals are willing to resign rather than approve what they consider would be a reckless attack.

“There are four or five generals and admirals we know of who would resign if Bush ordered an attack on Iran,” a source with close ties to British intelligence said. “There is simply no stomach for it in the Pentagon, and a lot of people question whether such an attack would be effective or even possible.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article1434540.ece

NPR 6-18-2007:

“The U.S. Army general responsible for investigating abuses at the Abu Ghraib prison is now saying he was forced into an early retirement because his inquiry was too aggressive.

In his first interview since leaving the military, Major General Antonio Taguba also challenges former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld’s congressional testimony that he was not aware of the extent of the abuse until months after the investigation began.

General Taguba tells his story to reporter Seymour Hersh in the current issue of the New Yorker magazine. Hersh says that soon after Taguba started his investigation in January of 2004, he came across private e-mails between senior officers detailing the abuse.”
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=11164731

So….. what’s your point?  Why do you disregard relevant facts and make blanket statements which do not reflect reality?

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By Folktruther, July 28, 2009 at 8:19 pm Link to this comment

The university in Olympia is Evergreen, where the SDS unit involved in the mobilization against military ships is located.  We visited the campus and my daughter was accepted to the school there this year.

Ron Jacobs reported that the president of the school, who is African-American, suspended the SDS chapter, so was probably working with the police. Ron, who graduated from Evergreen, suggested that we write the president, protesting the suspension.  Mine began “you, sir, are a pimple on the ass of the body politic.”  Just to get his attention, you know.

The SDS sat in and won reinstatement.  An historically radical school which they are trying to domesticate.  My daugther chose another one, but there are good people here that will be useful to like up with.

The intelligence and police agencies routinely infiltrate all organizaations, such as women’s groups, envioromental groups, etc.  Prabably comment groups like TD as well. The US is an electoral police state and it will take more than legislation to change that.

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By greenuprising, July 28, 2009 at 7:57 pm Link to this comment

“Obama’s” military?  Nay, the military are a law unto themselves, and have been for some fifty years.  The last time a president had any say over military behavior was when Harry Truman cashiered MacArthur.  And that only served to bolster right-wing militarism.

When the most corrupt institution in the U.S. government and the most corrupt class in our society (the generals) really come under civilian rule, we may see a new foreign policy.  And a new domestic policy.  But not before

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By ardee, July 28, 2009 at 7:04 pm Link to this comment

hippie4ever, July 28 at 8:57 pm #

You are aware that there is a Coast Guard base in the SFBay, are you not? Take the Bay Bridge about half way across, make a hard right and there it is!

Not that I doubt the infiltration of groups everywhere…..

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By Outraged, July 28, 2009 at 6:08 pm Link to this comment

Firstly, the term anarchist can mean many things, and there are all different philosophies and tenets of “anarchism”.  Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism

In light of that, I’m wondering exactly what type of anarchists we are talking about here.  Presidents are required to defend the country “against ALL enemies, foreign and domestic”.  If this group were a threat to democracy re: The United States of America, and many anarchists are… then would it not be prudent or necessary to infiltrate their group?  Now, if they really were only an “anti-war” group this is another thing entirely.  During the Bush years everyone and anyone who was not fascistic was considered an “anarchist”.  This is because Bush/Cheney and his criminal troops were attempting to make the state of the State a fascist dictatorship.

Were these infiltrators hold-overs from that, or were they protecting the country from the enemies within?  We know these enemies exist, hell…. they have their own TV channel, they call it “Fox News”.

It is my premise that we need to be discerning regarding these matters.  Sydicalism is to totalitarianism what Fascism is to totalitarianism and BOTH are a threat to democracy, there’s only a hair’s width difference between the two, one to the right, the other to the left.

Balance is the key, democracy IS balance (remember) it is also the center point— opposite totalitarianism.

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By hippie4ever, July 28, 2009 at 5:57 pm Link to this comment

Not necessarily—those vessels stay deployed for a long time gathering information, using sonar as well as air-obtained intelligence. We’ve had one anchored in San Francisco Bay for at least five days now. Mary, it’s all one big police force now.

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By Mary Ann McNeely, July 28, 2009 at 5:22 pm Link to this comment

The Coast Guard?  The government must be far more incompetent or broke than any of us ever realized.

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