Dear Seth Eslami,

Actually you answered what I was asking very well. The right questions are as hard to find as the right answers. Personally, I don’t understand why Arabs and Iranians and Israelis are not already living in peace. I’m usually more comfortable around Middle Easterners (including Sephardic Jews and Persians) than around many Americans. The liberals and progressives here all seem to hate Israel, and the conservatives here (except for the religious right who say they love Israel because it will bring back the Moschiach—not to mention Armageddon; they seem eager for the “last days”, a time I do not look forward to!!) tend to have very fascist tendencies.

The big problem with many Israelis is that they don’t trust anyone anymore, feel very small and very isolated. Many of them also are convinced that no one else in the world would really care if Ahmadinejad & the Revolutionary Guard did nuke Tel Aviv, and so feel that they are going to have to protect themselves because no one else is going to. Unfortunately, you are correct—it was very clever of Ahmadinejad’s people to build their nuclear operations under a mountain, under a holy city, under densely-populated area. And it would be a huge disaster for everyone—especially the Iranian people at the site and Israel herself—if Israel dropped a bomb under any conditions. I do what I can, mainly writing against this, and so do other Israelis, but even the peaceniks like my family are really worried. (Egyptian intelligence apparently told Israel that Hezbollah now has 40,000 rockets, many easily capable of hitting Tel Aviv and of course the airport, so everyone is hysterical about that now.) My own opinion—and I hope I’m right, as that is the reason I’m writing so much against attacking Iran—is that even Ahmadinejad would not be crazy enough to launch a nuclear weapon at Israel, because in that event Israel would possibly, even probably though I hope not, respond in kind, and not just Tel Aviv and Tehran but the whole Levant and Persia would be toxic for years, not to mention the awful loss of life.

Am glad I’m not the only one who gets yelled at by both sides! But keep saying what you think—otherwise the fools and the bigots will prevail.

In the recent past I’ve noticed how much better Hezbollah and Hamas are at manipulating leftists and Euros, trying to make themselves all things to all people. Excellent ploy but impossible to sustain because sooner or later lies are found out.

Our boycott of Cuba has been more support to Castro’s survival than nearly everything else. Certainly hasn’t done anything good for the Cuban or American peoples. And Ahmadinejad would probably profit from sanctions too. In fact, I don’t think there is anything that would frighten him or even embarrass him. I do hope the opposition in Iran holds together and ultimately dumps him—just as I hope cooler heads in Israel will stop Netanyahu making one of his impulsive irresponsible blunders.

I hope you and all your family are well and safe, and that someday Israel and Iran will be partners in development and peace. Shalom, Sepharad

Dear Sepharad
You’re pointing at something which is very hard to answer.The Iranians who left Iran are mostly like to make themselves feel better with their 2500 years of history. From time of Cyrus the great. In Iran also many people feel the same. Meanwhile Iran is Muslim country & majority of people have strong beliefs. But at this moment & this new green path of hope is not about the history but about the future. People are tired of extreme. They want change & they need change.

As far as US & Israel’s role in Iran, I have to admit that even I was feeling like the world has to do something. But now we all realized that everybody has their own interests & goals. Putting sanctions or not recognizing A.N. will not bring any positive change to Iran. I look at Cuba & imagine what would happen in Iran. I think the best thing to do at this moment is put focus on A.N. himself as a criminal.
Iran has built up this new factory under the holiest city in the country, so if Israel tries too destroy it thousands of people die. Something that would change things between people of Iran & Israel.
The problem is A.N.& his team are very smart. They are playing with everybody at the same time.And they know how to manipulate people around the world.When A.N says all this crap about Holocaust it’s not because he believes any of it. I mean where was he & who the heck is he to talk about something like this! No he wants to find friends & followers around the globe, and he has been successful in a way. Every now and then I come across people especially from eastern Europe & middle east who support him & scream at me for being against him. We had a demonstration in front of a mosque in Houston & said some slogans against Hezbollah in Iran. Later I had someone from eastern Europe yelling at me that I’m stupid & I’m just making Americans & Israelis happy!?

It takes time but I think we can have peace in middle east someday because I see how everybody is getting along here in US. Arabs Persians Jews they all live together without killing each other. Actually I think compare to other races middle easterners have a very very low crime rate in US.

But it takes years & generations of cultural upgrade. Internet is upgrading peoples culture in middle east.
wooh I said too much i forgot what you asked me.

seth eslami—You say the same things that some of my friends who grew up in Iran, some old enough to have participated in dumping the Shah but not liking the results of that revolution, say. But re those people still in Iran who once did and still would prefer Khatami to Ahmadinejad, what if anything can they do? And, do you really think that if the U.S. doesn’t recognize Ahmadinejmad’s government it would help? I’m not trying to argue with you. I’d just like to know how such people can change Iran, and what if anything could the U.S. do? It’s hard to ignore the Iranian government as nuclear policy is currently an issue. Is there something our government could do?

Also, is there any way the Israeli government could behave that would make THEM less of a problem for the anti-Ahmadinejad Iranians? (Not that Israel’s president Netanyahu would want to be helpful, but the majority of Israelis did NOT vote for him and would be interested in dialing down the tensions between Israel and Iran/Hizbullah etc. I’m speaking only for friends and family in the Israeli peace movement.) I used to think the U.S. could one way or another promote modernization in the Middle and Near East but so far we’ve done a terrible job, often making things worse. But I’ve never thought that solving the Israeli-Arab conflict would change much, if anything, for the surrounding Moslem countries, as many are not Arab. And I wanted to take the chance to ask you what you thought about this. (Most Israelis and other Jews are quite conscious that Cyrus of Persia did us a good turn, bringing so many back to Jerusalema and rebuilding the Temple.

Some Iranians here still consider themselves Zoroastrians, and hold traditional solstice bonfires and poetry recitations. Is there still a sense of the great Persian culture in Iran? If so is there any relevance between that culture consciousness and the current conflict between Ahmadinejad/Revolutionary Guards and the inheritors of the Persian traditions, the intellectuals, the students?)

To answer you “hadee sedaghat”
  The government owns every resource in the Iran. What you say here is just to fool none Iranians who don’t know what’s going on Iran. But I grew up in Iran & seen it all by my own eyes. I was there when more 20 million people voted for Khatami. Iranians don’t change their mentality & political views just like that. I feel bad for people in Iran who support Ahmadinejad so they get a free coupon for a chicken or cooking oil. But you ...

Tropicgirl, LInda, aren’t you a little harsh on Sean Penn?  I think actors are artists and artists are not the clearist thinkers about politics.  Your point that it is impossible to support the “Reformists” without meddling in Ian politics, however,  is of course quite true. 

Congress has already funded 4 hundred million for regime change in Iran, and the class struggle there indicates that the US has a lot of support among the rich and Educated.  They chanted “death to China and Russia” who are opposing the sanctions against Iran.

The ‘Iran Stolen Election,’ the denial of the landslide election of Ahmedinejad, has joined the Iraqi ‘Weapons of Mass Destruction’ and the ‘Dafur Genicide’ as Big Truths by the Zionists and other militarists who favor war against Muslims.  Sean Penn is encouraging this tendency, as is George Cloony in Sudan.  But they just might be people who are not very knowledgeable about politics.  I don’t get the feeling that they ave very sophisticated poltically.

“[S]o far I have only described what is already obviously going on. Add to this the likelihood that Iran is closer to achieving membership in the atomic weapon club. They’ve been spinning their centrifuges all year and nobody has done anything about it. My guess is that neither the US nor Israel will attempt to take out their facilities in the year ahead. If Iran used a nuclear device against Israel, or anybody else, they would be asking to become, in turn, the world’s largest ashtray. ...

James Howard Kunstler

http://www.straight.com/article-178369/james-howard-kunstler-forecast-2009

Wednesday August 6, 2008 07:19

The charge infuriates Dr. Etemad. “With the Shah, we also came to the conclusion that Iran was in great need of nuclear energy because our population was steadily growing and our gas and oil will run out. That’s why even though I was in the old regime, I should be fair to the new regime because they are following the same line.

Friday September 5, 2008 07:56
Wed, 03 Sep 2008 22:32:58 GMT Currently suffering from electricity shortage, Iran has been forced to adopt a rationing program by scheduling power outages - of up to two hours a day - across both urban and rural areas in the country.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=nojeh+nsa+lawsuit&aq=f&oq;=&aqi;=

Dear Seth Islami, I know that Iran has a large population of Jews; some of them are very angry at Israel for threatening Iran—and they are right. As you say, if Israel attacks Iran it will only strengthen the leaders who are trying to subject Iranians to an even harsher military theocracy. I copied your and some of the other Iranians’ messages and have circulated them widely to Jewish groups I’m involved with as well as Israeli sites.

I don’t think there is a way to keep Iran from getting nuclear weapons, so the only thing to do is hope that the Iranians will be able to stop the leaders who would use these weapons agaist Israel or anyone else. Attacking Iran would be the worst thing Israel or anyone else could do. Unfortunately, Israel has the worst possible leader to navigate these dangerous times. Ironically, he came in second in the election but the winning candidate, Tzipi Livni, was unable to form a government because she refused to deal with the religious extremists and so lost. I wish she had been less “pure” so that she’d now be the Prime Minister. However, it the Israeli public revolts against plans to attack Iran it may still be turned around. The labor and peace parties and the centrist parties are trying. I think your words will encourage them to try harder. Thanks very much.

tropic girl, re the English-language signs, many Iranians speak English (not to excuse English speakers from learning Farsi), many Euros and Middle Easterners also speak English. It’s been as close to an international language as we’ll see for a long time. All the Iranians among my friends here speak perfect English and quote Shakespear freely, while I am ashamed because they have to translate their beautiful Farsi poetry to me. They say nearly all Iranians in college learned English growing up. Also, many Middle Easterners know French. (Not surprising in that the Brits and French occupied large hunks of the Moslem world—among others—for centuries.

Oh yeah, and the CIA has lots of protest signs all written in English so we can understand, on American tv, what they don’t know they are saying.

“..Everybody hated him till now, but now that he is supporting people they will support him…”

That is exactly my point. This is the type of reactionary havoc that gets movements into trouble. I am sure someone could have said the same about any of the fascist leaders of WWII.

In fact, the mentality of “anyone but Bush” got us a total bulshittr as POTUS that has actually made the secrecy, torture, spying, signing statement activity, war without reason ENTRENCHED INTO OUR SOCIETY LIKE NEVER BEFORE.

You could say that the profiteers in the senate and house use liberals all the time. Neocons use real conservatives when it suits them. This ping pong, enemy of my enemy is my friend will just serve up heartbreak to the serious reformers. Hearts will be broken and lessons will be learned. Like when the Democrats reversed all the gains of the 70’s in league with the nutcase evangelicals and an actor named Ronald.

You already know how the CIA uses people in this way. They did the same to the liberal reformers in the 60’s here in this country. They killed some. They have cute, sexy women also that they use. They have fake students. They have paid “friends”. They said they were going to infiltrate and undermine your country. Why is it so hard to believe them? They will use an operative who is a “friend” one day and then blows up American servicepersons the next day. Operatives don’t all of a sudden become moral leaders. Won’t happen. Its just another day for them.

The solution is that any reformers in Iran will have to learn their lessons like any that came before. I don’t know an easier way. We all struggle with corruption and the CIA goons that should have been aborted.

tropicgirl
Trust me all Iranians know more about Musavi’s background than you do, I’m trying to be rude but Iranians take politics very Seriously & most of them have a very good knowledge of what’s going on not just in Iran but around the world.As I mentioned before this is not just about n election or Musavi. Iranians want the regime to go down, They would use any help they can.They are backing Rafsanjani. Everybody hated him till now, but now that he is supporting people they will support him.If Musavi asks people to stop their protest they would chant against him too. Iranians have been waiting for something like for 30 years,& now they will do all they can to get what they want, Freedom & Democracy.

If you want to learn about Mousavi’s long history as an operative, all you have to do is google “The Butcher of Beirut.” I found 50 references, complete with historical dates and quotes from American officials, from various news sources before I stopped looking.

You would think supporters of a movement that will destabilize a country would do at least the minimum of research. For Penn, it should be “art homework”. And I would think he would have at least some sympathy for the Iranian youth who are, apparently, being used, in a very clandestine way.

Hypothetical: my neighbor and his wife are quarreling. I support the wife. That is not meddling? He is pissed off and rightly so.

Hypothetical: my neighbor and his wife are quarreling. I support the wife. That is not meddling? He is pissed off end rightly so.

Dear Kesey Seven
Thank you for your support, & I really appreciate your nice words. I had strange life & when I was living in Iran I was the American kid & now that I’m in Texas, I’m the Iranian! Point is I care dearly for both countries but at this moment in Iran people are making history & they need all the support they can get. Unfortunately the media has more interesting news to cover, but every Iranian with a facebook account is a news agency.

Dear Sepharad
I have many Israeli friends here in Texas.I had many Jewish friends in Iran. I read somewhere that after Israel Iran has the most population of Jews. Iran government always tries to tell the world that Iranians hates Israel. But just like many other things that they are telling the world (like the peaceful nuclear energy program) it’s not true.I still think that military action against Iran will help this government to stay longer.They are like Hezbollah in Lebanon as long as there’s an enemy & war they have power. Let’s see if people of Iran can make real change.

proud iranian and Saam Irani, thanks for the information. One million is a lot more impressive than 10,000—especially concerning the risks coming out to protest carry. It helps to understand what is really happening in your country when you, living there, are able to get information out. Our newspapers are having trouble doing it. Good luck to you, and all us on truthdig will look forward to more from Iran.

Seth Eslami,

Thank you for your post. It was very interesting. It is journalism in the true sense of the word:  Writing down your perceptions of life, as you see them, when you see them. Your writing is very good to read. It is a welcome sight.  I wish we Americans could see more writings of people from other countries. Good luck. Be safe. Take care. 

—

TropicGirl,

Yes, I realize I am careless with words and often use them without understanding their meaning. Thank you for setting me straight about the meaning of the word artist. 

Your historical information about Mousavi is quite intriguing. I had not heard of his support for the bombing of the US barracks in Lebanon. Equally intriguing is your statement that Reagan then worked with him during the Iran-Contra affair. I’ll have to look into that. Thanks for the tip, it is interesting. Does anyone else on this board have comments or information about that? 

—

Cyrena,

Enjoyed your post immensely, but you need to throw in a couple non sequiturs to make the rest of us feel comfortable  

What really made an impact on how I view “news” reports is a book called Legacy of the Ashes: The History of the CIA by Tim Weiner.  The book makes you feel like you’re looking at a Dali painting each time you read a newspaper. I mean, is it a legitimate protest or is it an intelligence agency manufacturing dissent? I’m not saying that to question what’s going on in Iran right now; I’m saying it to point out that maybe our government uses disinformation too often. 

Maybe our government provokes already paranoid leaders to be ruthless. Maybe our government makes casual observers cynical because no one can discern what is real and what is not. Maybe our government discredits newspapers because they publish facts that are in reality fiction. 

Brings to mind Dali’s painting of an elephant with legs of a giraffe walking on water beneath a temple clad sky. What is real in that picture and what is imagination? That kind of question is fine for art, but not so great when as a citizen you are attempting to determine what is the right direction for your country.

Here’s to hoping for a little realism in US foreign policy. 

Kesey Seven

By Kesey Seven, July 20 at 10:04 pm

•  “That’s what concerns me, that US intelligence agencies will use this spontaneous movement as an excuse to spread American propaganda, to meddle, to provoke Ahmedinajad to do something stupid, to undermine the movement itself. There is no quicker way to kill an indigenous movement than for American spies to get involved. They do. And they have repeatedly.”

I’d say your concern is very legitimate Kesey Seven, since the US has such a long history of meddling in Iranian affairs;  beginning with the overthrow of Iran’s democratically elected Mossadegh in 1953 by the CIA. (which the article mentions). Be that as it may, I’m inclined to agree with the author when he says this..

•  “In reality, the U.S. has very little ability to impact what has become a massive, spontaneous movement for change. And it shouldn’t. The CIA overthrew the democratically elected government of Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadegh in 1953, bringing the dictatorial shah back to power. The Bush administration attempted to overthrow the Iranian government by funding and arming ethnic minority groups opposed to Tehran.”

In other words, from my academic observations of Iranian polics during the past 5 years or so, I don’t think the US HAS been able to affect and/or impact this indigenous movement, simply because it is as it should be -  an INDIGENOUS movement!! And, it’s a movement pertaining to self-determination, and that’s about the Iranians, NOT the US or it’s citizens. But, it’s not for lack of trying, since the Cheney-Bush Era policy had an active spy operation going the whole time…one that surely hasn’t dried up just because we’ve finally got new and far more law abiding management.

Meantime, the Iranians have every right to hope for support from the entire International Community, but shows of support don’t need to be “state sponsored” or otherwise ‘endorsed’ by the US. We’ve got our own issues here, and we really do need to get out of the business of meddling in the backyards of other nations, particularly when they have natural resources that Corporate America wants.

Ali Raamand and Seth Eslami, thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge and experiences with us. Based on your recommendations, I’ll communicate same to the politicians who represent us in DC as well as the Obama staff. Also, as a supporter of Israel—I’m an American who lives here but has family and friends there, belonging to Peace Now and its Meretz party, I’ll contact them and the various pro-Israeli groups I belong to and pass along your messages, word for word. For awhile I’ve been opposed to Israel attacking Iran out of fear of nuclear weapons, which I think is illogical and wrong even given the Ahmadinejad government, but your words have given me information Israelis need to hear so they can oppose their current government’s policies.

Good luck to you both, and death to the dictator (but not by American hands). I hope that as a result of this behavior on the part of the Iranian mullahs and some of the Revolutionary Guard against the citizens of Iran, our government will halt diplomatic contacts, and push for sanctions (not easy, as China, its eye on the oil, will oppose).

Kesey Seven, after reading the posts of two people who are Iranian and know what they are talking about, I can see that they are the only people we should be listening to. (I remain a fan of Ken Kesey’s writings as I am of Sean Penn’s acting, but once again see how pathetically ignorant we of the left as well as the right are when it comes to truly closed societies. Also, the increasing involvement of the Revolutionary Guard—and the resistance of some of its officers and men to participating in what is more like a military coup than election—see articles on this in today’s NYTimes—has prompted me to act by contacting our representatives in DC and suggesting they press Obama to follow the suggestions of Ali Raamand and Seth Eslami.

Also, as a firm supporter of Israel (Peace Now and the Meretz party), I’ll communicate with friends and family there what Ali said re how Israel’s muscle-flexing re Iran is only strengthening the bad guys. I’ve argued this to my Israeli friends here already—about not even thinking about attacking Iran—but will do so to my loved ones and party over there.

Er, excuse me, movie starts are not artists. And this is a PERFECT example. They may be artistic from time to time but the chances of a movie star doing anything significant, as a fine artist, is probably next to nothing.

You mention… “The Bush administration attempted to overthrow the Iranian government by funding and arming ethnic minority groups opposed to Tehran…”

Ahem, what, they gave up? Really?

Sean, please. Where have you been? This is what is still going on.

First of all, you know that this character you support, Mousavi, has been deeply involved with covert western “influence” in Iran. From his support for the 1983 Iranian-sponsored attacks on the United States in Lebanon (who knows what side he was really on, since these type of attacks only help fuel Israel’s desire for endless war), including the devastating barracks bombing that killed 241 Marines in Beirut. (AMERICAN MARINES - CHILDREN OF OUR BROTHERS, YOU GOT THAT SEAN?) He was also intimately involved in Ronald Reagan’s disastrous encounters with Iran just three years later, the Iran-Contra scheme, OF WHICH Prime Minister Mousavi was the recipient. (I paraphrase parts of the many reports of these events).

And then, remember when this happened?...

Bush sanctions ‘black ops’ against Iran
by Tim Shipman , London Telegraph, Sunday May 27, 2007

“President George W Bush has given the CIA approval to launch covert “black” operations to achieve regime change in Iran, intelligence sources have revealed. Mr Bush has signed an official document endorsing CIA plans for a PROPAGANDA AND DISINFORMATION CAMPAIGN INTENDED TO DESTABILISE, and eventually topple, the theocratic rule of the mullahs. Under the plan, pressure will be brought to bear on the Iranian economy by manipulating the country’s currency and international financial transactions…”

If you can’t piece together the simple fact that Israel and the US (and others in the western corporate arena) are involved in A SIMPLE DESTABILIZATION PLAN, then you must refrain from your cheerleading, since you don’t understand the first thing of what is happening there. Mousavi is a well-known cooperator with the CIA goon squads and all the others.

As I said, movie stars are NOT artists. They can look at things artistically and collaborate on things, but this movie star has one pre-conceived goal, to contribute to this destabilization. That is not what artists do. They present the facts of what oppression is, the true lying nature of it, and leave the politics to the next up and coming crook. You are not helping the Iranian youth through the painful process of realizing when they are being used (by their enemies I might add. That is the history of Iran).

You would be better doing a movie on the nature of propaganda, which apparently you do not understand. It would be like an art project for you…

hello. it is correct for people to distinguish between an American celebrity, and invite him for lunch, and a true American. try as he may to defend the inaction of a limpwristed leader; it is hypocritical to state ‘non involvement is the path: so come out and get involved in non-involvement’, by sending a strong show of support; by participating in our non involvement group, and meddle in what you want to be an outcome of their affairs. send a strong signal of support in solidarity against intervention: by proactively getting involved. what are you smoking? savagery, repression; what does it take for you to decide which side you are on? either take a stand, or get out of the way. you have meddling in your voice and in the back of your mind.

To Sepharad:

It’s not embarrassing that a movie star is making sense. Movie stars are artists. Throughout history the arts and politics have been intertwined. Sometimes artists work with the state. Sometimes they work against it. Sometimes they work to move it in their direction. 

Don’t buy into the television news cynical stance that only conservative actors can become President of the United States or governor of California.  The television media, the owners of the television media, desperately want to control every opinion that is offered on the air.  They don’t mind it when a hateful whack job like Ann Coulter has her say, but they have successfully and repeatedly kept the opinions of progressives off the air.

Sure, they hire journalists and talk show hosts to play the role of the liberal on TV.  But true progressives, particularly those who don’t share the views of Democrats or Republicans are kept off the air. 

Actors can bridge that gap.  They have access to journalists who want to interview them. They have the advantage of being able to travel the world and actually see for the themselves the effects of US foreign policy.  And they are often intelligent people—Ronald Reagan excluded of course.

Don’t be embarrassed for Sean Penn. Cheer him on. He’s fighting subtle yet ubiquitous censorship, censorship that gives full exposure from the middle to the extreme right, censorship that pretends views that are neither Republican nor Democrat do not exist.

Sean is fighting the good fight.

Kesey Seven

Finally a sensible description of how to support the Iran protesters without meddling. How embarrassing that it took a movie star celebrity to do it.

What occurred to me when I heard “Death to the Dictator” was: Did an American diplomat/spy come up with the slogan? 

That’s what concerns me, that US intelligence agencies will use this spontaneous movement as an excuse to spread American propaganda, to meddle, to provoke Ahmedinajad to do something stupid, to undermine the movement itself. There is no quicker way to kill an indigenous movement than for American spies to get involved. They do. And they have repeatedly.

It’s one of the reasons lunatics like Saddam, Pinochet, The Shah, and Noriega were so savage. They worked with US intelligence agencies; they knew about the spies, they knew about the disinformation, they knew killing anyone and everyone they suspected kept the spies at bay.

I’m not excusing the homicidal jack-holes.  They were freaks of nature, violent, vicious, bestial, insane, but they were beasts that we either helped put in power or kept in power once they attained it. Sure, we turned a few of them out after they bit us, but only because they bit us, not because they mauled their own people. 

It’s fine and dandy for ordinary Americans to support the Iranian resistance, but this article makes a good point: “Stand in solidarity with Iranians and against U.S. intervention in Iran.”

Remember what Neil Young sang:

“I was travellin’ with my family
In the Mideast late one night
In the hotel all was quiet
The kids were out like little lights
Then the street was filled with jeeps
There was an explosion to the right
They chanted “Death to America”
I was feelin’ like a fight.
So I ran downstairs
And out into the street
Someone kicked me in the belly
Someone else kissed my feet
I was Rambo in the disco
I was shootin’ to the beat
When they burned me in effigy
My vacation was complete.”

Kesey Seven