Here is the founder’s website

http://www.ramusa.org/about/letter.htm

tmullins—I’m sorry about yur dad. My dad’ crappy insurance didnt save him from brain cancer, either, although he found out later that there were better treatments, like the kind Kennedy is getting…this kindve stuff is beyong the pale, when we have so many wealthy people.

But, it wil be “deficit neutral”!! Yes! Oh, btw, the war and bank bailouts wont be, but survival care for our own citizens—NO TAXES!!!!!!!!!! Free to die with their rights on….

If we have the best health care in the world, RAM wouldn’t be coming here year after year.  Mitch McConnell is worried that our quality health care system will begin to ration care and people will have to line up for health care…. Hmmm ?

My father had good insurance and went to the best health care system in East Tennessee for a minor surgical procedure ( we thought by their advertising ) his care was rationed, he ended up rotting to death for ten months and had to have a bilateral amputation.  http://www.wisecountyissues.com  In East Tennessee and Southwest Virginia, this is deemed, defended and supported as “the acceptable standards” of health care. 

Th health care industry and politicians are a sham in the USA !!!

Doug—I would like to invite you (as i did Pres. Obama and Sens Webb and Warner) to attend a RAM (remote area medical—sortve ike a MASH unit) this weekend (July 24-26th) at Wise County Fairgrounds in Virginia.

It is an intl effort, but, they are now spending 40% of their time in the US (USA!! USA!! USA!!)

It will give you a whole new perspective on the un and under insured.

Take the family. You can get your teeth pulled in a cow barn./....

DougTheCoder’s “cynacism” is this old Indian’s reality check.  As an apparent “winner” in the “healthcare” lottery, his enthusiasm for it is understandable.  Yet, he seems not to’ve noticed that the “system” is not only inaccessible (except via “emergency” rooms) to tens of millions, its owner/operators are ruthlessly shedding “risk” as fast as they can. 

He also sidesteps dealing with the endless array of “environmental” generators of ill health that are pretty much inescapable….even for those with effectively unlimited means to “enjoy” all the state-of-the-art medical “treatment” they can stand.  Meantime, actuaries all over the world have already computed the “cost” to their employers of aleviating the effects on the general population of those gangsters’ own industrial and institutional activities.  There is no intention whatsoever among these exploiters to bear any part of that expense….and no way “....your huddled masses” can compel their tormentors to ante-up, either.

As for his allegations of failure to suggest “solutions,” this old Savage has been recommending The Tiyoshpaye Way here for nearly three years now.  Granted, it is a radical departure from the dead-end “individualism” in which the domesticated peoples are presently entrapped.  How bad do things have to get before it’s recognized, however, that merely tinkering-around with the apparatus of institutionalized abuse, in vain hopes of making it a little less intolerable, hasn’t a chance in hell of meeting even that pitifully limited objective?

There is Medicine for what ails the inmates of “civilization.”  You won’t find it down at the corner DRUGStore, though.

HokaHey!

DougtheDecoder—I’ll give you a couple of reasons why: it wont do a fricking thing for me or anyone else below the poverty level and it rewards the insurance industry which is killing people every day.

I will repeat: until we change the basic paradigm as one of proft or your life, it will not change for anyone except those who already can afford to buy “health care” (not “medicaid”). It will just make it a little cheaper for those who pay out of pocket and will dump more people into a “poor peoples’ plan”
.

You’re lucky you have been able to get enough care to “have a noraml life”—-that isnt what reform was supposed to be about—it was supposed to be about covering people and better health—not just cutting costs. (and , to me, taking the fricking profit out of peoples’ misery!!)Tell me, what purpose do these ‘choice of plans” (try making a “good choice” and “taking a good risk ” after you get hit by a bus) serves—-why do insurance companies exist? They perform no badsic function, they create no usable products….I’ll tell you what they exist for—The GOP and Dems to collect money for campaign and fool people like you. It works…money works…imagine.

If the “min level of coverage” is like Mediciad—-lol. Well, maybe you’ll get a chance to experience it in your lifetime. The poor know what “poor care” is…it provides just enpugh to keep you sick and have you die young.

Your “talking points” are right out of the Blue Dog book…maybe we should have the 14 (and maybe now, 12) people who die everyday , from insurance industry greed, die on the WH lawn….

The Dems blow it again and this time with the sacred “fillibuster proof majority”—lol..but they can count on enough people being stupid to win again,a nd then hand it over to GOP who will carry on…it is a very cowardly bill for such a large majority…shame on them.

I’m glad you have done so well. You dont need reform.

Some of these posts virtually drip with cynacism—including TAO Walker’s elequent rant—but offer little in the way of substance.

Will, I took the time to read a couple hundred pages of H.R. 3200 today to see for myself what was in there that was so horrible. I found a well constructed piece of legislation that is somewhat similar to Medicare D save one important fact…H.R. 3200 appoints a government committee to negotiate rates with Drs. and Hospitals, something that Medicare D was sorely lacking. In fact Medicare D specifically prohibited the government from interfering with price structures.

Anyway, I also read about Mental Health Parity, Pregnant Mother and Well Baby Care requirements, and provisions for ensuring that minimum standards of care are met. Insurance companies that want any government money would have to meet all of the requirements, including coverage minimums, plan design specifics, and coinsurance levels. And they would be audited.

I plan on reading more of the bill, but I am having trouble finding anything wrong with it. Basically, it says, insurance companies get government money to offset claims costs if they follow the rules that the governement sets (and the rules are very detailed). The government is going to offer its own public plan, but I haven’t gotten to the details of how that is going to work yet.

KDelphi, I understand your cynacism about new discoveries. A while back I read a well formulated study that demonstrated that we were actually better off without all these “new discoveries”. This is basically the same cynacism in Tao Walker’s diatribe. But I personally have benefited from medical advancements that have prolonged and enhanced my life by quite a bit. I am leading a happy, normal life with a wonderful family thanks to medical advancements…something that would have not been possible 30 years ago. So, I find it hard to set that aside.

If everyone on this thread is dead set against H.R. 3200, explain why. What specifically about the bill is unpalatable? What about a single payor solution is so much better than H.R. 3200? I still don’t understand why that is the only good solution.

Mr. Kucinich’s original argument was that single payor eliminates a lot of unnecessary waste, including profits, built into any free-market system. I like that. And in healthcare, I think it makes sense. However, it doesn’t, in my mind appropriately balance choice. I feel that is better to offer a multitude of plans that can meet various people’s needs in a diverse population and accept some inefficiency built into the free-market system as long as there is a minimum level of coverage for everyone (what we consider to be a basic right).

From what I have read so far, H.R. 3200 appears to strike a good balance.

Addressing the medical needs of large populations of ever-more-seriously and chronically ill “individuals” is never going to be any more “affordable” than it has ever been….which is to say NOT AT ALL.  People “crunching”
the (real) numbers are already (painfully?) aware of this natural fact, but evidently feel compelled in the face of growing unrest among the “....huddled masses” to go through the motions of appearing to “reform” the grotesquely mis-named “healthcare system.” 

The ‘message’ behind all the sound-and-fury remains as plain as it is unpalatable.  ‘The-Marketplace’ (which runs on gangster rules) is a dog-eat-dog world, fellah ‘n’ gal inmates, and you and you alone have to look out for “number one.”  Or, as Bob Dylan sang, “The cops don’t need you, and Man they expect the same.”  Anyhow, “value” is always a function of ‘scarcity,’ and there’s sure-as-hell no shortage of serfs in the domains of latter-day corporate feudalism….six-and-a-half billion of the poor bastards, and counting.

Having CONned its captives into virtually equating “healthcare” with medical attention (which ought to be the ‘option’ of LAST resort) the juggernaut now keeps them CONvinced they’re each effectively helpless to deal with the inevitably degenerative effects of having to exist in a ‘habitat’ rank with industrial toxins and organized abuse….most of it ‘legalized’ and all of it “cost effective.”  This CONtraption manufactures “individuals” for the same reason “hunting preserves” breed captive “game animals”....fenced-in prey that provides profitably easy pickings.

We as Human Beings, living with integrity in our natural organic form (call it “community”), CAN take care of each other.  Not even the gods can take care of their selfs.

When you get sick-and-tired of being sick, and tired, tame Sisters and Brothers, and of pissing-and-moaning about it to “corporate entities” (including those masquerading as government agencies) that haven’t got it in their nature to even give-a-damn nevermind respond effectively, The Tiyoshpaye Way out of your designer misery and back into genuine health remains open.

ALL together now….

HokaHey!

DougtheCoder—Another thing to note, when you speak of all the “new discoveries”—most of them are huge profit pills and items, that the greedy pharmaceutical industries get patents on for 12 years and BaucASS and the GOP want to extend that another 20 yrs.

And we usually fund the research. And the advertising that is so much fun to watch. The ads they’re using right now, against single payer are paid for by whom? Right, people who pay premiums

If you haven’t realized it by now, ( and you would have had to be living in a cave somewhere, if that is the case)  Bill HR 3200 is a sham.  This bill is DESIGNED to nail the coffin shut on any possibility of ever having Universal Single Payer health care in this country.  D. Kucinich’s amendment will be tossed out, you can bet on it.  There is no way the insurance lobby will allow this exception to remain in.  This bill will represent permanent protection and huge revenue increases for the insurance corporations and we the tax payers will foot the bill.  The insurance lobby spent another 1.5 million today to pay off our legislators to see to it they are protected by this bill.  It’s there insurance to continued higher and higher Bonuses !
Call your representatives.  Tell them it’s enough already and the sickness for profit scam has got to end.
Unless you take PROFIT totally out of the health care equation you will have built in wasteful overhead, and guaranteed corruption and abuse and abysmal treatment.

DougtheCoder—well, one thing you can be certain of, you can bet the farm on, etc, etc, is that, if you have enough money, you can BUY ANYTHING is the good ‘
ole USA if you want it bad enough. Always will be able to.

Some will go without basic necessities, but who cares? We are not the world’ purse anymore—let countries who are not so far in debt do research. Research does nothing if you cant afford it. When you are sick , you dont feel ike “fundraising” and its degrading and unreliable.

You also do not feel like “choosing the best plan”, or even “choosing the best medical treatment”—a dr should do that. If the dr thinks it is useless, pay for it yourself. And dont say that you cant under single payer—that would never happen in the US—too many greedy people and people outside the US that know that ‘Merkins violence is only exceeded by her peoples’ individiual greed.

And there will always be greedy drs who will work on Cheney.

Individual Rx’s are just not an issue on my mind when 14 are dying every day.

If you limit it to “bare bones”—who gets to decide what is bare bones? The private industry that the govt has hired Aetna, Kaiser—-they decide who gets what now, based on wealth. A health “care” system based on profit is immoral.

In light of the sacrifices being made by the hospitals and the health insurance companies, I’ve decided the least I can do as an average citizen is not to opt for expensive elective surgery during the same period. Between now and 2020, therefore, I pledge not to get hair transplants ($10,000), Invisalign braces ($5,000), a neck and profile lift ($5,300), calf implants ($4,500) or buttock augmentations ($18,000—I know that sounds like a lot, but, hey, I’m giving up a trip to Brazil), rhinoplasty ($5,500), otoplasty (as you age, your ears just get bigger and bigger—$2,800 each or $5,600), and liposuction (hips—$2,400; outer thighs—$3,000; buttocks—$1,800); plus non-surgical fees (figure $128,000 spread out over all these procedures), for a grand total of $189,100.

Doesn’t sound like much compared to the billions and trillions being donated by the hospitals and insurance companies, but if even 1% of 300 million Americans make the same contribution I am, we will save $567,300,000,000, and be happy to do it.

Actually, I’m even willing not to have these procedures every year, increasing the savings ten fold!

So, my fellow Americans, the challenge is this: ask not what your country cannot do for you, ask what you can not do for your country.

KDelphi—

I agree with you that other civilized countries have already decided what is “necessary” and that we should base it on that. One thing to note, though, is that this is an ongoing decision process. There are constantly new medicines, therapies, and treatments. There are always new decisions to be made. And sometimes situations can be completely unique and complicated.

Both Australia and Britain have a QALI (quality of life indicator) system for prescription drugs. Basically any prescription that doesn’t have a QALI score of greater than 30k - 40k doesn’t get approved and paid for by the government. To translate, that means that if the drug costs more than $30,000 - $40,000 to improve or increase life by 1 year, it doesn’t get approved. Every new drug goes through a rigorous testing and studying process to determine it’s QALI score. U.S. drug makers do this now for drugs they wish to get approved and sell in Britain and Australia.

I like this system.

However, if a drug doesn’t get approved because the QALI score is too high (say $100,000), there is almost no possible way for a person to obtain that drug.

The problem with this system is that sometimes economically unviable drugs are treatments that work and, in some cases, lead to more long-term advancements in medical technology. But they are pushed aside because they are “not worth it”.

While I agree that it may not be worth it to approve such an expensive drug with taxpayer money, why not allow it to still be a viable alternative for individuals that want it. And I’m not suggesting that rich people should get the best, most advanced treatment. Often times non-profit organizations, fundraisers, etc…step in to make something available to people who couldn’t otherwise afford it.

The for-profit system works in these situations. It works because to me, my life is worth every penny I own, but to the QALI decision makers in Australia and Great Britain, there is a limit on how much they are willing to spend on one drug (which I understand and agree with). If I need this drug and have the money, I’ll buy it. If I don’t have the money, I will try to raise money, maybe a non-profit will step in. Maybe relatives will help out. Maybe I will do fundraisers.

In any case, the research that went into that drug is not lost. It could and often does lead to other advancements…maybe bigger, more long-term viable drugs.

The point is…our system is absolutely horrible now. Terrible. Terrible. Terrible. A single payor system would be a huge improvement. However, there are some advantages to profit based systems that are lost on a single payor system.

That’s why I prefer a single payor public alternative for MINIMUM coverage—what we consider to be everyone’s right to healthcare—and a profit based competitive environment for everything beyond the MINIMUM coverage.

DougtheCoder—More civilized countries have already decided what is
“necessary” care—we could base it on that.

Anything that is elective, would be on a waiting list, naturally. The probable results of treatment (vs non-treatment) would have to be taken into account, too.

The only way that people get so many electives covered on Medicare, now, is by govt (tax) subsidy anyway. The commercial where you see a woman say, “My scooter chair didnt cost me one single penny”, always makes me say, “well, then, it cost us”. These med equipment providers find ut what they are best re-imbursed for and decided to promote that product.(even when people dont really need it, they usually accept it)

The profit has to be taken out of it, if we want to cut costs. But, considering what we pay now, even the Kennedy Bill would have still cut costs, compartatively speaking. People seem to look at it as “pay all this or pay nothing”—-thats not how it is! People are already paying, just for crappy er care and people die.

It also cannot work if it is “deficit neutral”—that was a stupid criteria to put on it.

DougtheCoder—More civilized countries have already decided what is
“necessary” care—we could base it on that.

Anything that is elective, would be on a waiting list, naturally. The probable results of treatment (vs non-treatment) would have to be taken into account, too.

The only way that people get so many electives covered on Medicare, now, is by govt (tax) subsidy anyway. The commercial where you see a woman say, “My scooter chair didnt cost me one single penny”, always makes me say, “well, then, it cost us”. These med equipment providers find ut what they are best re-imbursed for and decided to promote that product.(even when people dont really need it, they usually accept it)

The profit has to be taken out of it, if we want to cut costs. But, considering what we pay now, even the Kennedy Bill would have still cut costs, compartatively speaking. People seem to look at it as “pay all this or pay nothing”—-thats not how it is! People are already paying, just for crappy er care and people die.

I agree that a single payor option is a million times better than today, but I still struggle with what people see as a right vs a priviledge and I think single payor has limitations that make other options more palatable.

Specifically, we talk about health care as a right, but what part of health care is a right? Any treatment anytime anywhere? I outlined an example situation in a previous comment that, although hypothetical, illustrates that we have to draw a line somewhere. Anything below the line is a right. Anything above the line is a priviledge. We cannot afford unlimited healthcare for everyone.

That’s why I favor the approach of having a government provided minimum coverage as a public option, but people can buy their own insurance or get insurance through their employer if it better suits their needs.

This “incremental chaznge” will makes things worse and, delay the inevitable. But, it seems that the working classes were tricked into the same bs again.

Why not let people opt in or not, and, choose whether to go into a “full coverage” pool of about 70%? More would join with time.

This is what Dems do—just enough to make you think that, if just “given more votes”, they will give us what citizens in every industrialized country sees as a human right…

Imagine that you and I agreed to a contract whereby for a sum of say $3000 a month that if you ever got into a situation whereby your life was threatened that you could call me and I would come rescue you and save your life. So for 20 years you pay me and then one day you find yourself in a life threatening situation and you call me to come save you. What I tell you are a lot of ifs, ands and buts as to why I am not obligated to come save you and I hang up. You die and as you are dying you hope I burn in hell or at the least go to prison for a long time. At the very least what I did was fraudulent and a good case could be made that I in fact murdered you thru my refusal to come to your aid.

That is what the healthcareless industry does daily by not doing what it said it would. That Congress would do anything other than that which is required to put these murders out of business can only mean that they are as corrupt and as evil as the people who run the healthcareless industry and none more so than the insurance industry itself. There is only one solution to the problem and that is single payer healthcare program. So if this solution is so obvious and it would solve all our healthcare problems why doesn’t the Obama administration and Congress embrace it?

Simply put, the Healthcareless industry puts millions of dollars into the campaign coffers of both the Democan’ts and the Repuliwon’ts! This is easy and sure money. Single payer kills the goose that lays the golden eggs for those in Washington. With the for profit healthcare providers out of business there suddenly becomes less money and lucrative jobs for people in government to pass through and get until they can get appointed into another government position in the next administration.

I suggest to everyone interested in the healthcare problem track down a copy of HEALTH CARE MELTDOWN by Robert H. LeBow. He talks about the problem, how we got into it and what needs to be done about it and surprise surprise he is very Republican and he came to the conclusion that only single payer works. Why? Because he decided that being human was more important than being a Republican.

The book debunks all the myths about single payer, some of which have been put forth by some posters here and others like Obama’s “incremental approach” to solving the problem.

So far what I hear about the latest proposal is that if passed it won’t take affect until late 2011. Just in time to help the Dems with their elections. My experience of how Congress has worked in the past is that that will concoct and pass some half-assed bill that will be designed to fail and it will be underfunded so that when it fails everyone can say, see, that is what happens when the Government tries to interfer in what should only be a free market business. And we will continue to die so that other may live high on the hog so to speak.

In the book LeBow points out that the real important difference between Americans and those in countries having single payer is that they see having good healthcare as a right where as Americans see it as a privilege and that privilege is based on level of wealth. In many ways it is like the Prosperity movement in Christian theology, if you a rich, it is because GOD favors you. If you are poor, well, you my friend are poor because GOD doesn’t favor you so you are on your own.

The people in Washington dance to the tune of another band all together different than the tune we are playing. Their only goal is to make it look like they are diligently dancing away on our problem, trying to solve it for our benefit while doing only the steps of the dance the other tune tells them to do. And it must work because the same old dancers keep getting sent back to the ballroom time after time! Lincoln was wrong! In some places in this country it is entirely possible to fool all the people all of the time!

As a former health care giver, I am shocked and saddened to see what has become of health care in America. $ 1. 4 million is being spent per day in DC by the health care lobbyists so your elected representative is getting taken care of and has quality health care we pay for and can’t afford ourselves for our families, I know what is deemed, defended and supported in Tennessee and Virginia as quality health care and clearly profit care comes ahead of patient care. http://www.wisecountyissues.com/?p=62 MRSA ( methicillin resistant staphylococcus aureas ) is infesting our communities because filthy, uncaring hospitals and emergency rooms are breeding them and spreading them into our schools, homes, restaurants. How many more Americans’ will be diseased or die while 74 % of Americans’ are begging for health care reform ? More people died in America last year from MRSA complications than AIDS. When MRSA and a flu bug start mixing, it won’t be pretty and we are being infected by the very health care system we depend on and trust to keep us safe and healthy. If we had “the best health care” in the world then why does RAM ( Remote Area Medical ) come to Wise County, Virginia year after year so people can go to the fairgrounds and stand in a line like cattle in the hot July sun just to see a health care provider ??? America’s health care system is a disgraceful sham !

I don’t know what the big deal is about the cost - it is estimated at slightly over 1 trillion over 10 years, much less than the three trillion estimated total cost of the Iraq war. Nobody gave a crap what the an unnecessary war cost us, but when we try and help our own people, all of a sudden costs are an issue? The hypocrisy around health care is getting nauseating.

rollzone—None of us had tax money to spare for the big bailout or the “profitable” wars, either, but…at least health care provides something useful for fellow citizens.

I wish that they would allow people to opt out, but, then dont come to er if you get hit by a bus.

I dont like the entire plan. I want civilized care, but, you need a civilized country for that…

hello. change the debate… that runaway inflation in the health care industry for putting these greed mongers on an inhumane pedestal: sure disrupted the influence curve around the beltway. protecting us from free market capitalism sounds like the mafia… i do not think i have any salary remaining to provide tax money for health care. when i no longer have money for staples and costs of living: i will be wandering around dazed; and in need of welfare. maybe i should just admit defeat and get a job working for the government.

I simply do not understand the argument that richer people should be able to “choose” something better…why?

Of course, with lousy capiutalism, you’ll always be able to buy whatever you want, with enough money. But it is not our responsibility to see that that “choice” is there.

“Choice” is code for “single payer doesnr work”—and it does. I have lived with it. If you wont just trust others who have lived with single payer, US will be screwed agqain, but, the ones who deserve rto be (so afraid someone else might get as good a care as they do for little or no money)probably wont be stuck with the crappy care that “choice” provides for the poor.

If everyone had to live with Medicaid ‘care” for a year, we would have single payer before the year was out. But, money is the “decider” in the US, even over life and death…

If you think that you have “choice” now, just wait until the industry figures out that HR 3200 is a giant gift to them—-they will have no incentive to lowet costs and will just bill it to the govt, ie us.

Civilized care works everywhere else in the west…maybe USAns are just too primitivistic.

I get so angry when I think of the clients I had wh suffered and died under our crappy system, and, family who is bankrupt—including me. If a “society” cannot help citizens when they are at their most vulnerable (and insists that when they are ill they must “choose” and “compete”) than it is no longer a society.

But people just keep spouting the industry talking points—“choice”—of what?? WTF do you care, when youre sick or hurt, about “choosing” an insurance company? You just want the best possible care and a dr familiar with your situation—single payer supplies that. (I’ve lived under it—it works…but USAns are too stupid to realize it)

I’d never vote Dem again. The entire civilized world stares amazed, once again, at our idiocy.

BobZ,
I agree with you on almost everything you have said but there is one problem.  It’s not just the GOP that holding up proper health care. It is also the Dems.  Obama the candidate said that all we needed was to have him in the white house and have control of congress and the senate to make single pay a reality. So…. all that is in place and now he has taken the single payer option off the table.  I like many many people I know are thoroughly disgusted with the back peddling that the Dems have done on many issues including this one.  As it has been said congress is owned by the Corporations and if you look into it the pharmaceutical and insurance interests were the single largest contributors to the Obama campaign.  Where do you think his allegiance lies?  We have, what I call a no party system.  Voting and Democracy are the dog and pony show and the real management of government is controlled by the Banks and large multinational corporations regardless of who is in power.  Until more people wake up to the reality that there government has been stolen from them there is little chance for the peoples interests and well being, to even be considered.  As the Chris Hedges piece stated earlier this week, perhaps we need a second revolution to end the terrine.
The insurance lobbies are now spending 1.5 Million Dollars a DAY to lobby “our” representatives to keep America sick for Profit. Who do you think they will listen to?

Will and Dougthecoder,

The Moyers web site still has the interview with the CIGNA executive, as well as the Frontline report on health care programs around the world.  Our health care system is broken and no amount of denial from the GOP will change that. As Bill Maher said as we come up on the 40th anniversary of putting a man on the moon, we haven’t done much since then. America should have the best health care system in the world given our first rate medical schools and first rate hospitals. The health insurers have mitigated that advantage by putting a for profit hurdle to overcome, a cumbersome claims settlement process, and a politization of the processes, that makes it ok to not provide health care for 50 million Americans, and to provide inadequate health care for another 50 million Americans. So 1/3 to 1/4 of our population has inadequate health care. That is unacceptable in the other industrialized nations and it should be here too. Our country should be ashamed of itself for the one we have let health insurers and big pharma push us around and deny us the care we need. Michael Moore was right in Sicko - we have the capibility in this country to build the best health care system ever and to have the lowest costs of any other nation. If the GOP doesn’t get on board, they will be consigned to permanent minority party status - a bunch of no nothings and do nothings.

DougTheCoder

Well, I really think you don’t understand a single payer system.  Even in Canada if you want additional insurance to cover say such things as your wife’s plastic surgery well you can buy that too.  And I don’t doubt that for one second the insurance industry will be right there with tons of products to sell you even if we had a single payer plan.  The problems with a hybrid system is this:  1.  Some people still will not be able to get coverage.  2.  You save nothing nothing on administrative costs which right now make up 1/3 of every dollar you give the insurance company.  3. You still are segregating the more profitable people (for the insurance companies) and the more costly are left for the government.  4.  The HR3200 bill forces people into getting crappy corporate policies probably with outrageously high deductibles. 
  In my case being self employed (just me) my insurance has gone from $175 a month 7 years ago, to $1336.00 last month and I’m a healthy non smoker with no serious health issues who lives a self responsible life style.  Because I’m 62 years old no company wants me!  Oh yes my deductible is $2000!  Moreover, a HR3200 approach has been tried and it doesn’t work.  Massachusetts has basically the same situation as HR3200 and people hate it.  The are numerous countries around the world that have single payer systems and any of them are better by far than HR3200 would be.  Bill Moyers did several excellent informative shows about single payer health care systems around the world and they are still available via Pod Casts on I Tunes.  I would suggest you watch them.  You will soon realize that single payer is the ONLY option we should consider and that all this “insurance company” generated BS about choice is just that ,BS.  People are dying every minute so some dam executive can get his or her million dollar bonus.  Enough is enough. It’s time to take the profit out of health care once and for all. If we don’t manage health care in an efficient and affordable way will never prosper as a nation.  Other countries have already learned this lesson and have acted.

Will,

What is covered or not covered is outlined in any health insurance policy. While they can be hard to understand and sometimes downright confusing, it is usually all there.

If you happen to be the sole breadwinner in the family (in the U.S.) and your employer happens to offer health insurance coverage, unless you make a ridiculous amount of money and can afford private insurance, you pretty much have two options: 1) insurance through your employer OR 2) no insurance. Most people choose option 1 if they are lucky enough even to be in a situation where they have that option.

In the United States it is common for employers to pay upwards of 80% of the cost of their employees health insurance. In effect, even though the employees pay a portion of the cost (usually 20% - 30%), the employer calls the shots.

Companies that don’t have self-funded insurance plans (usually less than 2,500 employees) have to follow state laws about what is covered or not covered. Every state is different. Some states require domestic partners to be covered. Some don’t. Some states require fertility treatments to be covered up to a certain amount. Some don’t.

Companies that have self-fund insurance (usually at least 2,500 employees) can cover whatever the hell they want to. I used to work for a company that didn’t cover any sort of contraception, fertility, domestic partners…etc. Basically, anything that was against the Catholic religion, because the owners were Catholic and they had a self-funded plan.

This system sucks. It is horribly inefficient and unfair.

But.

It doesn’t mean a single payor system is the solution. Single payor takes away choice—and by choice, I mean that people can’t choose for themselves a plan that balances cost with coverage to suit your personal needs and risk factors.

By way of illustration. Let’s say you are a 75 year old male who is expected to die in the next couple of weeks because of a rare illness. The doctor says, there is a small chance she can extend your life by 2 years with an experimental treatment known to have worked for patients in the past with this same type of illness. You say, great! Let’s do it!

However, the treatment costs $30,000 per day. That’s $21,900,000 over the course of two years. Is it worth it? To you it probably is, but unless you have that kind of money, someone else will be footing the bill. What if it was $50,000 per day? What if I told you that during this 2 year period, you would be confined to a wheelchair and wouldn’t be able to talk or hear or see?

This is obviously an extreme hypothetical example. But it illustrates my point.

Health Care is choices.

Unfortunately, we don’t have unlimited resources. So, some things can’t be covered. We have to face that reality. In some situations, we can’t pay for the multi-million dollar experimental treatment.

What I am saying, is that under the current system (in my situation), my employer decides what does or doesn’t get covered. Under a single payor system, the government would decide. I absolutely agree with you that I would rather have the government decide.

However, there is a better option. The government should decide the MINIMUM. Every insurance everywhere in the U.S. has to cover X. The government could even offer a public plan that covered X to compete with everyone else (similar to what Obama is proposing).

But people should still have the option to choose better than X coverage if they can afford it. That was my point.

DougTheCoder
  You are truly talking out of your hat. I lived in Canada for 20 years.  I doubt you did?  I know what I am talking about first hand as I watched the pressure imposed by the drug companies to keep their price monopoly intact. Yes, that drove prices up some, but once again it’s corporate greed running the show and the politicians going along for the ride.  Denying truly competitive pricing on drugs and not shortening the patten protection time so that generics could come on line.
Further to your comment I never saw or new of a necessary treatment that was not preformed while I was there. When you look at the number of cases now denied buy insurance companies when people believed they were insured it’s utterly disgusting, horrifying.  Private companies are in the business NOT to pay out money and to only insure the least risky people.  Thank you very much but I take my chances of getting care with an impartial bureaucrat rather than some bottom line claim agent!
What insurance company do you work for?

Cathy,

Here is the link on You Tube you requested. This doctor of course has appeared on Fox News and CNBC spouting off his anti-single payer rhetoric, mainly preaching to the choir.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0qPYkfNMPg

BobZ, is there a YouTube link for Kucinich and this doctor.  I would love to see Kucinich hit the ball out of the park with this guy.

Will, I know that politicians—i.e. Administrations—have raised Social Security in the states and, of course, now there’s a solvency issue.  I’m not sure, but I believe the same kind of thing has happened with Medicare.  Certainly things have been done to weaken the program. 

The answer the Medicare’s problems is, of course, widening the risk pool to include everyone.  It’s a no brainer.  But I’m sure we will also have to weather those politicians who will attempt to raid the single-payer fund. 

There will always be corrupt politicians who will try to raid the funds in any program that is good for the public, especially if it has a surplus.  Once those funds go into the general fund you’ll never see them again, and then, of course, they have the excuse to say the program is going broke, time to privatize.

Mr. Kucinich,

Your about the amount of money spent on non-health related costs or services in the for-profit health care world is well-taken. It is substantially higher than in the not-for-profit world.

However, a single payor system brings about other significant problems.

The bottom line is that whoever pays the bills decides what treatment should be given or not given. In a single payor system, there is only one decision maker about what is covered or not covered…the single payor.

One of Obama’s principles is choice. Choice does not just mean which doctor I see, but also what is covered or not covered. There should be a minimum standard of coverage, but I should also have the option to purchase better if I can afford it.

A single payor system offers equality (generally) and efficiency (I use the term loosely), but it does not offer choice in coverage.

Will, your implication that politicians in Canada have misappropriated funds by moving it to “General” use funds and then later doubling the tax rate is misguided.

Health care costs of have risen exponentially since 1972, faster than any politician could have predicted. It is likely that, although there was an early surplus, it was quickly eaten up by rising health care costs. Further, it is likely that the tax increase was related to those rising costs.

I lived in Canada for 20 years beginning in 1972 so I can tell you directly about their health care system.  When it was begun it was financed by a 4% sales tax on non essential goods.  In 1972 the service was excellent.  There was no waiting. Everyone got treated and there was even dental care for pre teen age children.
The only problem was that there was TOO MUCH money in the dedicated fund from the tax revenue!  They had a surplus.  So instead of paying the doctors more or updating technology the wise (corrupt) politicians at the time decided to take the health care tax money out of a dedicated fund and put it into “General Revenues”  and pay health care costs out of the general revenues pool of money leaving the excess to do whatever they saw fit.  Not long after this action they reported a sudden “shortage” in funds to cover the health care cost (???) so they decided to rase the tax to 8%.  Now, the last time I was there the tax was 17% and the care is no where near as good as it was in 1972.  Mind you there system still is 1000 times better than ours, but it would be perfect if it weren’t for the same infliction we suffer here.
Corrupt, greedy,self interested politicians.  And in our case the corporate bag men who own them.  There in lies the problem.  America is sick and we have no insurance to fix it.  Democracy and the will of the people no longer rule this country.  We live in a Fascist state of Corporatocracy. 

When you have Goldman Sachs boasting of $4 B profit right after receiving over $20 billion in taxpayer handout so they can pay 500 of their top employees 20 million each in bonuses.  Doesn’t that tell you something is wrong here?  When you have a President who promised change, but puts the same Corporate lackeys in charge of the governments financial accounting.  Don’t you realize you have been lied too? 

We will not have a just affordable health care system in this country as long as the unpunished crimes of greed and corruption continue.  Big Pharma is spending over $1.5 million lobbing, each day, to make sure America stays sick.

I heard the health care testimony of four experts, one of whom was a former Canadian doctor, who now works for a conservative think tank. He was bashing the Candadian health care system as part of his testimony. Dennis Kucinich tore him a new a—hole with the real facts about Canada’s health care citing all kinds of statistics that the doctor could not refute. The Candadian doctor was so flustered he refused to answer any more questions from Kucinich. It was one of those great moments one sees from time to time on CSPAN amidst most of the boring stuff. Dennis Kucinich is one of the true progressives in his party - he is the real deal.

The only problem I have with health insurance carriers and providers is that their executives make way too much mazulla. Zu viel gelt. They take way too much of the health insurance premium and co-pay dollar. Them when, as some have said here, it comes to “cost-cutting,” by cutting out services to those who continue paying premium payments to the insurers, THAT is what makes people NOT trust the insurance companies.

The insurance companies are considered rip-offs because the big-wigs who rip-off the money paid by working class people, some of whom even work for the insurance companies, are so obviously on the take, giving less in coverage as they laugh all the way to the bank, and to the month-long vacations in the US Virgin Islands, etc.

There does need to be a significant regulation of top wages paid to what has become a class of corporate thugs (oops. I meant rip-offs, sorry). But, just not regulation with the Pope calling the shots. Too much power in the hands of an ordinary human, elected by humans to be their leader, destroys freedom and free enterprise. Not good.

Where’s Bill Clinton when you need him? Uh, well, where’s Monica hiding out?

When former long-time top Cigna insurance executive Wendell Potter is now in the media blowing the whistle on the major insurance companies’ Wall Street-dominated “profitcare” racket, it is truly time to end this madness and put human lives first.

Mr. Potter was the major strategist behind the insurance industry’s discrediting of Michael Moore’s documentary “SICKO.” Now, he confesses that everything in the movie is true, that Mr. Moore is correct about not only the ridiculous, tragic, profit-driven policies of the insurance industry, but also about the high quality of care provided in government-subsidized programs of Canada, France, UK and elsewhere. He said the industry’s scare tactic of “you don’t want a government bureaucrat coming between you and your doctor” is actually a sneaky, and false, deflection from the current reality: having a greedy corporate bureaucrat between you and your doctor.

Isn’t it time we all stand up and stop being the indentured servants of corpocracy, starting with healthcare?

“We the People” have the Right to access the Merchant side of the Free Market.
It is an outrage that there is a Debate as to whether a PUBLICALLY operated healthcare system is “American”.
Our Founders Waged a War not only to assure a Poltical Voice, but also economic clout. It was not only our Form of Democratically Elected Public servants they declared our independence of, But economic oppression of the masses. Who basically owned and controlled access to the Old World markets? The Nobles and Merchant class. Serfs were relegated to labor and ‘caged’ consumerism.You may have handed the Serf your money- but it went in the pocket of the whichever ‘Logo’ controlled the resource.
The underlying premise to Capitolism is the fact that anyone can access the market- regardless of socio-economic status. In fact a Collective effort by persons of lesser means was the basis for partnerships,and incorporation. Allowing a group to work together to provide a product or service demanded in the market.
What makes “We the People” less eligible as a collective entity in the market, Then say Proctor and Gamble? The American People became Incorporated in 1776.
We were not only promised the inalienable Right to “Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness” with the ability to cast votes, But also have the Ways and means to achieve it.Besides what is more essential to keeping that promise than Healthcare.
Those who vote with the modern day Family Crests are commmitting a grave act of Treason, Twofold- Economically denying US access to the market as a Public Program and continuing increase to deficits and decrease jobs, thus deny US the ability to partake in life, enjoy liberty and pursue whatever makes US happy, as individuals and as “WE”.
Corp donations and Lobbists have filled our Gov’t with ‘Nobles’ and Seized the market for their own ‘Family Crests’. Our Founders must be spinning in their graves.

I’m proud of the insurance companies!  I wouldn’t expect anything else from them.  If they did something different that would be out of character for them (in case they had any), it would be a glimmer of hope for us and, whatever they do, they can’t deviate from their agenda of steal, squeeze and screw all!

And the winner is: Massive US Corporate profits! Again! Bravo!

CannedAm—I think you hit the nai on the head. Youre spoiled.

I’ve had clients die because Medicaid wouldnt pay. I want universal care, and, there are plenty of intl examples that we could base a US system on. Medicare (minus the privitized Advantrage and over paying Part D) is a good start.

If care is not necessary, you generally have to pay for it or go elsewhere. We have to cut somewhere and , I think that is as it should be. Otherwise, we find people expecting all types of volutnary procesures to be paid for—-that would bankrupt any system we could come up with.

I had BC/BS for years, working civil service. Then, I became disabled. That will take the “spoil” right out of ya!

If we had natl health care, I could return to work. I even applied for part-time, asked HHS is I could do it and keep my (lousy) coverage somehow—no way! This is bullshit.

I also lost family members to “under-coverage”.

Cover everyone—start with that. Give a kid a liver transplant and pull another one’s tooth. Give someone chemo—then worry about elective surgeries.Otherwise, we’re just uncivilized.

CannedAm, a point I would like to bring up regarding specialists.  Where do you think the specialists would go if we had single-payer?  Would they go to Canada, France, Germany?  Tell me.  Our problem in this country is more doctors are becoming specialists.  We have a serious shortage of primary care doctors.  The specialists are not going anywhere, nor is our technology, but maybe the gouging on the prices would. 

As far as the cost of educating doctors—one reason many go into specialties—could be worked on, I’m sure.  But I’ll leave that for other people to comment on.  I am nursing what may be the flu and I sure as heck can’t go see a doctor.  But I can eat and as long as that is the case, I’m using Oscillo, Vitamin C and water, and continuing to eat healthy. 

Yes, we have lots of specialists, we have lots of technology—yes, the good, old USA has lots of great stuff.  It’s just a shame that so many cannot access any of this.

And I believe the plan this is being hatched right now, without a strong single-payer public option, will simply lead to a dumping ground.  I did a quick read on the public option and, guess what?  Health providers have voluntary participation.  This is one of the problems that both Medicare and Medicaid suffer from. 

I live on Long Island and I don’t see too many doctors driving non-luxury vehicles or living a very shabby existence.  Most of them could afford to come down a notch and I’m sure would still make out pretty good.  But the risk pool has to be everyone and insurance for those wishing it needs to be made non-profit.

CannedAm—-the statistics just dont bear out your bad experiences. Its true, though that pain will not kill you—I’ve needed surgery for years now, and Medicaid wont do shit. I’m afraid to even try to return to work.

“Uniquely ‘Merkin” is code for insurance corporate profits. Studies show Canadians to be much healthier and that they get better care. Maybe you just have to deal with getting older, I dont know.

I have been treated in Canada, Denmark, Norway (lived there awhile) and Italy. All were free, excellent and immediate. Waiting for an optional surgery is nothing compared to 20-80,000 dying every year.

I worked in health care for many years as a Social Worker, I can guarantee you CannedAm, you havent seen anything…
Here is someone who has an idea of what to do : Rep Kucinich…

Here is an email I got from Cal Nurses Assoc. (ie Kucinich Amendment)

From: “Deborah Burger, CNA/NNOC co-President” <website@calnurses.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 7:04:18 AM
Subject: Critical Calls Needed to Congress Today

 
House Vote on State Option TODAY
for Single-Payer Healthcare

Congress member Dennis Kucinich of Ohio will be introducing an important single-payer amendment today, Thursday - the House healthcare reform bill.

The Kucinich amendment which gives states the right to pass and implement state-based single payer plans and will ensure the federal rules waivers required to allow that innovation. It will benefit millions of Americans - from California to Pennsylvania to Illinois to New York and beyond.
 
While not stepping away from our shared fight for HR676 and national single-payer reform, this is a chance for nurses and patients to help Rep. Kucinich to press the single payer fight forward during this legislative session.
 
Please make your call immediately as a vote is expected to be held today.

We have built strong support in California for state single-payer reform, having passed it in the legislature twice, and in other states including Pennsylvania and Illinois so we can win going through the states.

Single payer remains the best way to provide healthcare for all - and the most effective way to improve quality of care and control costs.
Now is the time for us to contact Democratic members of the House Education and Labor Committee to support the Kucinich amendment. Please call now. 

Call the Chair of the Committee, George Miller, at: (202) 225-3725

Calls are also needed to five of the key Democratic members of the Education and Labor Committee where Rep. Kucinich will offer his amendment, especially if you are a resident of their district or state.

Rep. Dale Kildee of Michigan: (202) 225-3611
Rep. Susan Davis of California: (202) 225-2040
Rep. David Wu of Oregon: (202) 225-0855
Rep. Carolyn McCarthy of New York: (202) 225-5516
Rep. Mazie Hirono of Hawaii: (202) 225-4906

If you are a resident of their Congressional district, be sure to say that as well.

Together we can win.  Thanks for joining in this action.

Healthcare Justice!

California Nurses Association
National Nurses Organizing Committee
2000 Franklin Street
Oakland, CA 94612

If you received this message from a friend, you can sign up for California Nurses Association. 

THANKS!!!!

I believe in Universal Health coverage.  I believe the way Canada has implemented its health care is broken.  I haven’t studied the system, nor do I care to. I’ve simply experienced enough of it to know that America doesn’t want this—nor would they stand for it. 

I came here when the company I worked for was sold and my job along with it. My husband, a Canadian citizen, got a job offer here that would allow me to stay home with our children.  At the time, my oldest child had ongoing health concerns.  I had to return to the states to continue his treatment or do without for 18 months due to the waiting time for a specialist.  There aren’t that many of them. 

Canadians are incredibly loyal to their country’s health system, unless they’ve been bitten by it.  I know several people who have to travel to the states regularly for treatment that isn’t available here.  Provincial health care does pay for that, though.  It takes eons to have such a thing approved. I knew 2 people who died of brain tumors that were diagnosed as migraines by the same doctor.  Can’t sue him though.  That’s the way it works here.  Just be glad you got to see a doctor with nothing out of pocket.  That’s the attitude and consensus.  Never mind that you pay 40% of your income to taxes in large part to cover your health care (and the health care of anyone else who isn’t working and paying into the system.) 

Canadian health care is very much like American HMOs.  You have a family doctor who you see for everything.  The family doctor will treat everything (this includes women’s gynecological concerns.  They won’t refer a woman to gynecologist for a PAP smear.  Ask your wives how they’d feel about that.)  and only when it turns up that he’s wrong or unsuccessful will he refer you to a specialist.  Again, the wait to see the specialist unless you’re near death.  Procedures and tests have to be approved and you’ll wait for both the approval and the procedure. 

Perhaps I was spoiled to some extent (that’s what the Canadians would say) by being able to look up an ear-nose-throat specialist in the phone book and schedule my own appointment without having to see the family doctor, dicker around with treatments that didn’t fix the problem and finally, years later, get the referral to the ENT and have my daughter’s tonsils and adenoids removed. 

It’s NOT fair in the states that people don’t have coverage at all, or that insurance costs so much and covers so little that you might as well not have any anyway.  I was lucky to have good insurance 98% of my life in the states.  It’s not right that hospital administrators are earning millions just to keep the profit margins high.  It’s not right that if your insurance requires a copay, a billing agent will visit your bedside to see if you have a credit card or checkbook on hand.  It’s not right that if you’re a medicaid or medicare recipient that only 40% of your bill will be paid by the government.  That’s all they pay.  And that loss gets passed on to all the privately-insured and uninsured people driving up the overall cost of health care.

I don’t think it’s right that the insurance companies are turning billion-dollar profits by collecting more premiums than they pay out in benefits.  I’d like to see insurance companies disappear, but I have a feeling that’s not going to happen. 

Absolutely America needs Universal Health Care.  I truly believe that a Canadian-esque plan would backfire horribly.  Americans are nowhere near as compliant or agreeable as Canadians are.  Americans would scream loud, long and hard if the health care they had was anything like what Canadians tolerate.  And if that happened, it would be so much worse than if we took the time to get the plan organized the first time around.

Well, folks, the Obama machine is working overtime.  This time they’ve brought along Harry and Louise again, courtesy of their Pharma friends in reform and Families USA.  NPR just make a deal about on their broadcast tonight.  I just left two more scathing remarks about their skewed reporting on health care on their site. While many people aren’t buying this garbage, there are enough deluded to believe this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/16/harry-and-louise-back-on-_2_n_236198.html

Read some of the comments on the end.  There’s even quotes by the actors themselves—what a deluded couple of actors—a couple of actors—as one comment put it—with a lot of blood on their hands, thanks to their last ad.

Dear CannedAm:  I’m curious.  If health care is so darned horrible in Canada, why would any right-minded person move there…. much less “call it home” (as you say you do) ?  Is the hockey that much better?  Is the fishing and hunting that great?  Having traveled “up north” I find it to be a really nice place - but it sounds like nobody would go there if their lives depended on it.
  I have worked in the trenches of the health care industry for 2/3 of my 41 years in software .... for hospitals, insurers, and doctors.  I have seen the total lack of cost controls which those private entities have applied to the health problems of the US.  Private corporations will continue to pass along every cost to the patients until SOMEthing clamps down or competes with them.  Doctors are too arrogant with their own god-like powers to accept change - the Hippocratic Oath is a lost/forgotten anacronysm. 
By the way, private insurers already “ration” health care - clerks decide who gets treatment, how much, and what procedures are paid for - NOT physicians or patients. 
  It’s reasonable for US citizens to expect care that is at least as affordable and effective as that given to their elected officials.  Maybe the US should apply a surcharge on Canadians who come into the US for whatever.  Or maybe a huge surcharge on any elected official who blocks reform.

CannedAm
A uniquely American solution? What does that look like? People bankrupted by hospital bills. No doctors in rural areas cuz they don’t make the big bucks. Others dieing in the Emergency Room, and no one notices. And hospitals dumping their bankrupt patients at the side of the road to live or die on their own.

That is pretty unique, but not really. It is happening across this country day after day. The only people with decent health care are the truly wealthy and elected officials. Medicare keeps cutting what is covered for the elderly and medicaid is gutted. That is because we have raided those funds to pay for endless war in the Mid-East.

I strongly recommend you stay where you are unless you are independently wealthy. Or a Troll working for an Insurance Company.

I find it strange that in fifty years of living near Canada and visiting there often I never met a Canadian who wanted to trade health care with me. But, I knew many Canadians who lived and worked in the US but clung to their Canadian Citizenship so they would have health coverage, no matter what.

Now, it is a political issue and the comment boards are full of supposed Canadians telling how bad they have it. Somehow, I find that hard to believe. Especially when it is a new and unknown poster…

I don’t know what the answer is to America’s health woes.  I live in Canada now, where I’ve resided for the past 5 years.  I do know this much:  the one and only thing that could drive me away from the country I now call home is it’s horrible health care.  It is rationed, it is absolutely sub-par, it is impossible to find a specialist and if you’re lucky enough to find one (let alone get the family doc to refer you) you’ll wait a year or two to see the specialist.  Need your now-powder knee replaced?  Step in line.  It’ll be a few years.  Never mind you’re going to be in abominable pain until you get to surgery, you’re also going to be bumped down on the list for weeks on end because other people take precedence over you.  It doesn’t matter that you can’t work, can’t walk, can’t take proper care of yourself.  It’s not killing you, so you get to wait for your surgery.  That’s what a single payer system is like.  And we still have the problems with hospitals actually trying to turn a profit.  There are administrators making outrageous salaries and in most cases emergency rooms are staffed by one doctor at a time.  Doctors don’t want to work in emergency rooms because their salaries are capped and there is no incentive to do so.  Doctors will spend 15 minutes with you and absolutely no more because that is all the provincial government pays them for and they will not overwork themselves for no pay.  If you have multiple health problems, you need to set separate appointments on different days in order to have the provincial health plan cover your doctor visits.  If you have a family doctor but visit a clinic outside of office hours, your family doctor is fined.  This system is horribly broken.  Don’t adopt it.  Don’t jump on a band wagon because it seems like the blanket solution to the outrageous greed taking place in America.  And by the way, doctors are as guilty of it as the insurance companies. 

I think America needs a uniquely American solution to this problem.  I think it will take a bit of time to figure it out, too.  Trust me:  the last darned thing America wants is Canadian health care.

I’m with you, William Wexler, I would do it , if I were allowed ro work!

I actually found work again, part time but had to turn it down because I would lose my Medicaid , which sucks anyway!!

I thought that getting people who buy private insurance to boycott the insurance industry would work.,...but I cant see a way to get everyone to do it. Some are really sick and cant.

I tried to get a petition to ask BaucASS to step down for conflict of interest…not enough people seemed interested…why dont people care if their fellow citizens die?

Everybody out, nobody in. What would they do?

Its barbaric, plain and simple.

Congress knows exactly what the issues are and just doestn give a f*ck!

Buy Locally and spend on only what you need. Starve the corporate consumerism, starve the state and local governments and STARVE THE BEAST

This is another opportunity to test the will of the people vs the will of the corporations.

According to recent polling, a large majority of Americans favor the “public plan option”.  72%.

HR 676 is Single Payer, which does not mean the same thing as “public plan”.  It means the health insurance companies go away.  Naturally the health insurance companies are going to throw everything they’ve got at defeating this bill.

I believe that if we don’t demand HR 676 we will get screwed.  What will happen is that the taxpayers will pick up the tab for the currently uninsured who can’t pay for it, and insurance companies will get a windfall in new Gubbermint money.  Obama will clap his hands, declare victory, and that will be that.

I suggest that we, the people in the trenches that have taken it in the shorts for the last 30 years of Reagan/Bush economics and the first 6 months of Obama TARP/bailouts, need to make this our hill to die for.  I suggest that we draw a line in the sand and demand HR 676 and don’t give in until we get it.

I suggest that we engage the public in a series of general strikes starting on August 1 for 1 minute.  Add one minute every day until August 31.  Then on September 1 start at one HOUR and add an hour every day.

I am not concerned with the details of dates, times, etc.  If anyone thinks of something they like better I would be open to all suggestions. 

It’s now or never.  If we don’t do something about this, the insurance companies win and we will never get another chance, or if we do it will be after decades more of misery and deaths caused by for-profit health care.

What do you think?  National strikes for single payer?

-Wexler

http://twitter.com/wwwexler

Email from PNHP:

July 15, 2009

PNHP has learned that as early as this Friday or Monday (July 17 or 20), Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.) will introduce, in the House Energy and Commerce Committee, an amendment to the so-called Tri-Committee health care bill. The amendment would replace the private health insurance industry with a single-payer national health insurance program.

In effect, the Weiner amendment would substitute Rep. John Conyers’ (D-Mich.) single-payer bill, H.R. 676, for the proposed Tri-Committee legislation.

The vote on the amendment will take place the same day it is offered - again, most likely this Friday or Monday.

If your representative is a member of the Energy and Commerce Committee, please call your congressperson today and ask that he or she support Rep. Weiner’s single-payer amendment. A list of Committee members can be found here: http://tinyurl.com/dhxq65

The Congressional Switchboard can be reached toll-free at 800-473-6711.

If your representative is not a member of the Committee, please call Committee Chair Henry Waxman at 202-225-3976 and ask him to support Weiner’s single-payer amendment.

This important legislative initiative was inspired in part by Rep. Weiner’s meeting with Dr. Quentin Young of PNHP at the time of Dr. Young’s testimony in support of single payer before the House Ways and Means Committee in June. It is also a reflection of the grassroots demand that single payer be on the table in Congress.

Please call today.

Cordially,

 
Ida Hellander, M.D.
Executive Director Mark Almberg
Communications Director

THANKS!!!

I appreciate the debate by Mr. Kucinich, and I vote for him every time possible, and support him when he comes to Palm Beach County.

But lets face facts here. We have come to the point where President Obama could take a crap on a homeless vet’s face, on television, recorded on You -Tube, played on the news every night, and nothing would happen.

Nothing embarrasses these politicians. Absolutely nothing.

This is what it is like when the mob takes over a government.

If anyone votes for these politicians again, whether primary, house and senate races or whatever, you are simply a fool.

Just don’t vote.  Or vote for the third party or the newcomer. It won’t matter either way.

And if you sign the census, you are just plain chicken sh*t.

Affordable Health Care is in the same boat as ‘Affordable Housing’. Those making a couple 100 grand a year can maybe get insurance [if they have no ‘pre-existing conditions]. They can probably afford the rent or house payment too, if the mortgage is not ‘upside down’.

That will only be true if they don’t get really sick or injured, or laid off. Then they’ll be like the rest of us, hoping the family doesn’t toss them out, and are willing to nurse them ‘til they recover, or die - whichever comes first.

Sanders, Kucinich, and a handfull of other understand the dangers we face from Corporate Fascist Government. But with the Media following orders, and most in Congress bought off, I don’t see change coming soon!

Mr. Kucinich I love you.  I am not a constituent of yours but I appreciate your honesty and how you always lay it on the line for “we the people”!  I only wish more Americans could wake up and see how badly we the people are being bambozzled!  I promise to do my part in holding all of my representatives feet to the fire, you do your part by telling us all the truth!

Kucinich is right, per usual. The “bill” passed 13-10 today, in the Senate “Health” Committee is bogus as it gets.

I wont give up—I cant.

Sen. Sanders offered an amendment to, at least, allow a few states to “experiment” (tell canada and EU that the US is going to “experiment”!!)with universal coverage, not-for-proft. Harkin, Brown and Jeff Merkley voted for it.

Senate HELP Committee
July 14, 2009

“Sen. Bernie Sanders just offered an amendment to the Senate HELP health care reform bill that would allow a limited number of state experiments with single payer systems. The proposal would have provided waivers from federal regulations such as ERISA, and would have authorized current federal spending on programs such as Medicare and Medicaid to be transferred to the state to be used in the single payer program…..”

Those voting for the amendment:

Bernie Sanders
Tom Harkin
Sherrod Brown
Jeff Merkley

All Republicans and all other Democrats voted against it.

http://help.senate.gov/Hearings/2009_06_17_E/2009_06_17_E.html

List of committee members:
http://help.senate.gov/About.html

——-Inline Attachment Follows——-

_______________________________________________
Quote-of-the-day mailing list
.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
http://two.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/quote-of-the-day
unquote from Don McCanne, PHNP.org

The Senate comm is a moral midget with blood on its hands.

Dennis Kucinich is one of the very few democrats in congress that stands in the mainstream with the people and has not sold out to the industrial-military war-profit party like so many of his colleges.  If we had 50 senators and 220 house members with his brains, integrity, and honor we would have had healthcare for all 6 months ago.  The only debate would be whether or not to pay a 1% copay on message therapy, as it should be.  He would make a great president in any democracy that had free elections. As long as the freedom hating fascist neonazis control everything in the United States he will never get more 1% 0r 2% of the vote.