make that contempt for government And unions!

Compare alturn’s comment to Matt Welch’s post on Truthdig, “California’s Silent Big Spenders”.

The reason I believe that California is in the mess it is in, is because the State has lost its Liberals, or at least they have become very confused.

Alturn’s thinking is the same as Matt Welch’s, and they both add up to contempt for government,

which is right-wing ideology!

Professional politicians mean manipulations professionally done.

“The fact is that most Californians, according to poll after poll, are against defunding education”

Sorry, I don’t buy it. I would argue that most Californians are secretly FOR defunding education, given their paltry resistance to a Press (including “alternative”) that savagely attacks public education in almost every major California city.

If California had its rumored “liberal” population, a better turn out at the polls would have happened.

What has happened to California’s liberals??

I call BS on idea that the failure of the ballot initiatives are a clear “message” from voters. The whole point of the measures was to build responsibility into the system, unfortunately including unfair and damaging limits on education and other areas.

A few thoughts:

1) The ballot measures were very confusing, and partially as a result, turnout was very low.

2) Much like Peter Pan, the state Republican party will never grow up. They want a functional state without paying for one. This is also true of the state’s voters in general. The budget crisis would be largely resolved if they brought back the car tax, or raised taxes slightly on the highest income earners.

3) The system is permanently broken until they get rid of the 2/3 rule to pass a budget. See 2.

4) A ballot initiative to do away with future ballot initiatives could potentially save the state millions, if not billions, in money to fund and campaign for all this crap.

Like any human designed system, California’s iniative system has flaws. But it is no more flawed than the workings of the Governor or the legislature. This is twice now that the Governator ran a special election costing the state millions of dollars and his, and the Republicans attempts to force the People to do what they themselves could not do backfired.

Several commenters have stated that the People of California want more services but are not willing to have their taxes raised. That is true only in a philosophical way. When one looks at the iniatives passed over the last decade what we see is the People trying to protect those programs that they know are important to them such as education. Every time there is a financial crisis the first thing the politicians do is cut those services which are needed most. That way they can then get the People to accept another round of taxes and use fees. What is never discussed is those programs that are never even looked at let alone cut that are the pet projects of the politicians themselves.

When I hear that the Governator is appointing termed out legislators to commissions that meet once a month and they get paid $100,000 plus per meeting during a time of financial crisis it makes me wonder what else is tax money being spent on that could be cut instead of education, healthcare, fire, and police?

Some posters have stated that term limits have ruined our government here because there are no professional politicians. It would be really important if being an elected official were like professions where the longer you spend time doing something the better you get at it. But when it comes to politicians it seems that it means being more efficent at lieing to the sheep while fleecing them more efficently. Professional politicans result in people like Jesse Helms, Ted Stevens, Newt Gingrich, Dick Cheney, and more than I can care to remember.

The one thing that would go a long weigh to solve this problem would be a repeal of the supermajority by Californians. It would have to be a iniative because the Rethugs won’t allow it and the Demowon’ts won’t do it. Unfortunately the
People of California still don’t get that the supermajority is the start of the freeway to destruction and the polls show they support it. They think that anything they can do to limit the politicians actions in Sacretomato is good because while they trust the man or woman who is their representative, they know that all those other SOB’s are up to no good and can’t be trusted!

At some point there has to be a reconciliation between the People and the Government of California. It is going to take another leader with some real skills to get things on track and unfortunately I don’t see one on the horizon!

Sorry, Marshal K, I read this stuff too fast.

Folktruther, please do not confuse me with the other Marshall.  I am a broke Oregonian left wing hippie who has watched our neighboring state’s BS politics spill over into my state, along with a bunch of its redneck OC Rethuglicans.
Bad initiative politics is bad direct democracy.  The bottom line is a bunch of bad initiatives have appealed to an ill informed electorates reptilian part of the brain, and have screwed up both states’ governments big time.

California, a falling domino & forecast of things to come for the

rest of the STATES when a GOVERNMENT is run by a

FASCIST, or an actor controlled by FASCISTS. Apparently the SIMON WIESENTHAL CENTER found no evidence of atracities by his NAZI father.

And since Arnold was never caught on camera making drunken

statements revealing an inner beast or hidden agenda, we might conclude that like most politicians, he’s just a puppet on a string & in way over his head.

All the California voters can do, like the rest of us, is pray while the predators continue to prey.

The California referendum system is not direct democracy, it is money democracy like the rest of the electoral process.  To get issues on the ballot commercial petitionsers are hired and an enormous amount of advertising is used to push it.  the elections are scheduled in a off year when peope are not thinking about politics, and a time inconveninet for working people.

I have no doubt that if an issue were on the ballot to TAKE MONEY AWAY FROM THE RICH it would pass overwhelmingly, and probably be shelved by the judiscary or legistlature.  Of course Marshll you probably identify with the rich, which is why you show such equinimity that vital services will be eliminated but it is all for the best.

California is an excellent example of direct democracy failure.  Ill informed voters vote for government programs while at the same time voting to cut taxes.  They have hobbled their legislature with super majority requirements to raise taxes.  They also have filled their legislature with inexperienced lawmakers because of term limits. They are super gerrymandered so that most representatives are extremists that don’t work with the opposition.  When given the chance to modify their redistricting system by using an impartial panel of judges to draw up the districts, they voted it down.
It really is a basket case government.  Vital programs will be cut, but that will be for the best.  The citizens need to see what they have wrought.  Maybe after losing enough services, they will get off their butts and do something about it.  Having a 24% voter turnout the last election is pathetic.  In a democracy you get the government you deserve, and at this point Californians got what they deserve.

Folktruther, May 23 at 1:43 pm #

Seems obvious to me!

Whenever we encounter a shortfall, whenever the economy sags , whenever the budget needs streamlining the solution is always the same; rob from the poor to maintain the lifestyles of the rich.

Instead of cutting social programs add a few cents to the taxes paid by corporations, increase or better still enforce the luxury taxes that most escape quite easily, close the long list of loopholes that allow the few to escape their own obligations to the nation that provides everything they need to become and remain wealthy.

The power problem is quite simple, but is obfuscated in the truth media.  Since the rich control both the truth media and fund both political parties, it isn’t possible to raise taxes on the rich in the legislature.

The intellectual solution to the California problem is very simple.  It is the same as the American problem. IT IS NECESSARY TO TAKE AWAY MONEY FROM THE RICH. This ismple solution is attacked by the reps of the rich as being immoraal, illegal and in bad taste.  Both parties are against it.  Mainstrream truthers are against it, either strenuosly denouncing it or eruditely diverting attention away from it.

We msut find a way to TAKE MONEY AWAY FROM THE RICH. A brilliant solution to our financial problems that the rich make people afraid to think of and afraid to attempt.  Think of ways to TAKE MONEY AWAY FROM THE RICH.  And to de-inform and de-educate the population to assure them that this is what needs to be done.

Self-segregation and gerrymandering have left CA with extremists in the legislature.  That along with the ‘proposition’ process and the 2/3 requirement to pass a budget have left the state ungovernable.  That has to change.  A new state constitution is essential along with redistricting.

By Paul_GA, May 23 at 9:44 am

Nope.

Excuse me, Samosamo, but did you hit the “Submit” button before completing your posting? “Well, never let it be said” ... *what*, if I may be so bold as to ask?

Sacramento is comfortable taxing us but remain steadfastly opposed to legalisation of cannabis. Already with the dispensaries/cooperatives the state earns millions in tax revenues; outright legalisation would bring in many of the tens of millions in revenues California needs. Still Prohibition continues because the cartels elect public officials, and it keeps the prices high.

I think it was rather inventive of the politicians to attempt ways of trying to gaurantee to the state a certain amount of income.  As long as there are smokers and lotto players, there would have been monies for the state.  Some might think it beyond the government to create unnecessary deficits, but others will try anything to get what they’re wanting.  If arny is wanting to make some cuts, perhaps he might offer a 10% pay cut to all state employees, like reagan did with the federal gov’t in the 80’s; and, stop all that unneeded overtime.  I have known gov’t employees who would talk and lolly-gag all day long, and then, they were the first ones to put requests in for overtime, and, because of the jobs being critical, it could all ways be justified.  It was truly pathetic!

As a California voter I read these initiatives as disingenuous, poorly described in the voter handbook ( for example it was never stated that voting yes on the second needed a successful first initiative passed for it to take effect), and seemed a hasty and ill conceived batch of bull.

I think the voting public may very well be emerging as a thinking electorate at long last, at least I hope that is the case. Now our Governator is threatening massive cuts to police and fire services, schools, senior programs, health care for children as revenge I guess.

In my home town of Stockton, Ca., some group is organising a militia to replace fired police personnel. They received over one thousand requests to join, accepted two hundred, swore them in on the steps of city hall. Now they will activate when and if the mayor lays off the numbers he indicates he will have to dismiss. Stay tuned for chaos.

Well, never let it be said