Ref: Abigail David

Great post about some fundamental facts. It is about time that the defininition, rights, responsibilities and such be completely be discussed for a long time in a sweeping public forum.

Those who run corporations are different than ordinary people. This week the health care insurance corporations must be considered very carefully. This coming week the U.S. Congress will hear from Sen. Ted Kennedy and expect a fight with Sen. Max Baucus and, of course, the GOP. Despite a public outcry for something akin to Single-Payer, they have turned a deaf ear on cutting costs for the ordinary people, indeed, Baucus and the health insurance lobby just want to cut millions of “bad risks,” we the people.

Your post on the rights and responsibilities and the very definition of a corporation must be taken to heart. Like “Sundance” said to “Butch” (or vice versa), “WHO ARE THOSE GUYS?”

My Notion On the Current Reality

When you are on on the ground with in pain and trying to clear your mind and struggling for air, absolutely anybody looking down who extends a hand, be it an angel or a snake headed devil, will look good. You reach out for the hand when you are hurting.

Our two-party scam system even looks good. Just remember, after you get your breath, those precious few who extended a hand and made promises, should be judged by their deeds not their words.

Remember that the Constitution has one essential promise, it says that we the people are the boss, not these greedy reptilian, arrogant masters - nancy pelosi grin comes to mind. and so does the big grin of schumer, but the republican are no better.

it is the system, stupid. boycott the two-party system or let this diaster turn into cultural extinction. isn’t that what they really want? isn’t that clear to you, yet!

REF: DWIGHTBAKER

With the intention of provoking more thought about freedom liberty and justice, I am pasting the following paragraph from Dwight’s recent post. While all of this post is fitting food for thought, this line sticks in my mind. This is the kind of righteous thinking that must be spread to those who are hurting, who will soon be hurting and those who are down and cannot get up. So, just remember this:

“We are too many for one man to come along like Nehemiah and fix all but we all are many——and when our words and deeds are set in flint like Nehemiah we all can get involved in taking our Country back while we still have a Constitution that empowers us to do so.”

These are the kinder and gentler ideas that will eventually sink in to beaten down, the despondent and hurt citizens that have forgotten who is really the boss. You will only be deluded if you rely on the propaganda and powerful diversion spewed across mainstream media. We cannot simply turn them off because we need to know what brand of snakeoil they are selling today.

“Stay close to your friends and family and even closer to your enemies.” I am sorry they do what they do, I can understand their motives but they must be stopped, they must face our justice!

GREAT WAS THE NEED—- GREAT WAS THE MAN—- GREAT WAS HIS PLAN
By Dwight Baker May 12, 2009

Nehemiah heard of the mournful and desolate condition of Jerusalem, and was filled with sadness of heart. For many days he fasted and mourned and prayed for the place of his fathers’ burial chambers sepulchres. At length the king observed his sadness of countenance and asked the reason of it. Nehemiah explained this to the king, and obtained his permission to go up to Jerusalem and there to act as tirshatha, or governor of Judea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nehemiah—-Quick read

Where are those that have that same Nehemiah spirit today?  Have we not heard the mournful calls have any not seen the desperate and desolate conditions that our country has become?  And who cannot see the scars of sadness as the sign of hopelessness in the faces of all our family friends and kin?  Therefore the one and only call goes up again and will not end until the solicitous vanguards with that same Nehemiah spirit arise and shine as our beacon of hope that a better day is in the making?

Who cares enough as Nehemiah [just a cup bearer] that volunteered to take over ALL as the highest potentate in the land?  Is that job to big for just one man read the numbers then you will know.  We are a nation of over 325 million and just one man cannot do ALLS bidding. 

So how many will it take that has the same set in flint Nehemiah spirit—- to come forward and volunteer to take our country back, to build the walls and gates as was done by Nehemiah’s plan in just 52 days?

We all know the names of the bad boys and they are few in number but we are many.  We have talent galore in all walks of life many have walked away from the terrors in horrors that was done during the Bush Bunch years. Generals are in our corridors just waiting to be called—Navy seals—-Airborne Rangers—-Special Forces ops are all around many of our returning vets are sin sick of the entire routine they were put through.  Then we have a wealth of talent that has plans that will amend the tragic things underway.  We have scholars deluxe who can take all to task when ask hard questions that seem no one knows the answers.  The answers are out there but they cannot be heard. And that by design to own all the networks and mediums of print by the bad boys still lingers in all our craws.  There is no more free press save one the Internet has the freedom to get out the message THANK GOD.

So who looking back just a few distant years could have ever imagined the sad shape that we would all be in?

We are too many for one man to come along like Nehemiah and fix all but we all are many——and when our words and deeds are set in flint like Nehemiah we all can get involved in taking our Country back while we still have a Constitution that empowers us to do so.

A PLAN—- We The People Advocates WTPA are providing the only HOPE in saving our great nation.  So JOIN IN and ENLIST to serve with your VOICES being heard and your VOTES being counted and moved along to our lobby group in Washington DC to power push the peoples needs, wants and wishes in our cities, states and Federal Governments for all Americans to have the rights to life in all ways in equity adjudicated by the Bar of Justice. Dwight Baker .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

By KDelphi, May 12 at 5:01 pm

By Dwight Baker 241 words

There has never been a call needed more at this time than WAKE UP STAND UP AND SHOUT OUT.

America is on fire the bad boys are trying to rob us blind.  And the longer that we all set in idle chitchat sessions the worse it will get. And I do not have the money to drive to DC and do the above maybe you do, but many do not.  So the call must come over sites like TRUTHDIG and that is just the way it is.  People are not going to hear that call come over the TV networks or in the so-called free daily press Thank God for folks like Bob Scheer that saw the need long ago and put his life and money in as skin in the Internet. 

So yes I may offend you but to that I ask that you forgive me.  For I am on a mission to do all I can do—- to share the real facts with whom I can.  See many have been lulled to sleep by idolizing just one man—that said he could do but has not proved he could—so now we must act.

And when trying to dialog it is far better to use honey than vinegar to get an ear.  And on the other note many good and honorable folks need a call to go out——
GET YOUR HEAD BACK IN THE GAME.

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AFriend, May 12 at 4:04 pm #

Your sermon on the mount is ill received. I doubt you understand how unwelcome is your pontification. Who are you to lecture anyone?

Giant ego perhaps?

It is rather a simple thing to ignore those with whom you find such egregious fault, try it.

For the very last time, I give to those as they deserve to receive. Tata….

If there was a god, I would be praying to him to PLEASE help me to stick by my premise that “turning people in” is censorship…pleasegodpleasegod…

By KDelphi, May 12 at 1:58 pm

You said it not I

GODS VENGEFUL FURY,
MERCY, GRACE AND LOVE
FOUND IN THE HEARTS
OF HIS SEEKERS

Alone I set
No regrets
Eyes piercing the night skies
Where is HE?
The GREAT DIVINE ONE

Saying my dedication to YOU
Is all I can account for in this life?
YOU have let me live
Creation of me was in YOUR total control
Others have doubted
Not I

One step
After another
The path with many forks
I knew many

Which one to take
Became maze of forlorn thoughts?
When knowing I had
Gone astray

Which way I cried?
Many times
No answer was in my mind
In the wind or sun shine

Which way oh GOD
The GREAT DIVINE ONE
Which way
Which path to take

Life
With all we see and know
Is a patchwork?
A quilt of many colors
Patterns and forms
When peering in at my life’s quilt
I see pure colors and measures
The work of the GREAT DIVINE ONE

Unbridled sin
Was forgiven me
What was illicitly wrong was forgiven me too
Looking back all was growth toward
The Majestic all knowing GOD that
I pursued

Awakening the soul
Of a Child of GOD
Is a peradventure task?
Who but the GREAT DIVINE ONE
Can do just that?

As life ebbs away
Each passing day
Knowing full measure
Of our worth to others
Is the reward?
Of knowing and our service to
The GREAT DIVINE ONE

For in the depths
Of YOUR wisdom
Lies all the VENGEFUL FURY,
MERCY, GRACE and LOVE
That has ever been

YOU my FATHER OF LIGHTS
THE GREAT I AM
THE GREAT DIVINE ONE
YOU hold the perfection
That I seek
To break the bonds and chains
Off so many that I LOVE

Contained in me now
Is some sadness?
Grief and periods of distraught

I set and ponder
Over YOU and all YOUR wonder
What are the limits of sagacity YOU put in me?
To find solace only in YOU
Run to the well
Of GODS heart and soul
Run to the limitless boundaries
That restrains NOT

YOU beckon YOU call come near
More near me YOU cry
YOUR voice shakes the heavens
In a vengeful fury saying
WISDOM IS PRICELESS
ABUNDANT IN ME
Know it well and set my captives free

YOU resound with that message daily
YOUR words come in a blaze of glory
And restore my souls need for any other
YOUR glow radiance in and above this earth
Is the fulfillment of all?
YOUR GRACE, MERCY and LOVE  

Who knows YOUR ways?
Who knows YOUR heart?
Who knows the furious temper that is restrained?
By YOUR GRACE, MERCY and LOVE
Only YOU
My GREAT GOD THE DIVINE ONE

The seekers ALL the seekers
I love them so
They are on the path
That GREAT path
As I am
They humble themselves in YOUR
Matchless Presence
To love and cherish all that come to YOU

For in all of us
That common bond is found
YOUR BLOOD IS ON OUR DOOR POST
Death hell and the grave has no hold us

For in our hearts and souls each day
We look for YOU in one another
It is YOUR presence in each of us
That drives us along
Life’s pathways

YOUR voice resounds
Find that sheep that went a stray
Out of MY sheepfold
Stay troubled till it is found

Distractions so many distractions
Are here ever present
To bring us to tears
If we allow ourselves to steep in weeping

When in YOUR presence
All becomes again very clear
That in this life we cherish and love
Is to benefit others

For we indict and permit the wars
That must be fought
There is a VENGEFUL FURY in the Banishment of the wicked ones
For many have missed the call
In doing they took the final fall

But on the wind behind the
VENGEFUL FURY Is MERCY, GRACE AND LOVE
Many others can now
Be saved when the
Wickedness permitted and taught them is lifted

For rejoice in this day
GRACE FOUND ITS WAY
Again in the hearts of man
And LOVE overflows
With its majesty
And in HONOR unto
HIM
THE GREAT DIVINE ONE

ALL HONOR AND PRAISE TO
JESUS CHRIST THE GREAT DIVINE ONE
LORD GOD KING OF THE UNIVERSE
IT IS HIS WILL, WAYS, WORDS AND WORKS
THAT WE MUST HONOR HIM IN ALL
OUR WORDS AND DEEDS
AMEN

By Dwight Baker copyright 2006

ardee,—“I return the kindness, and if I am attacked by a couple of schoolyard bullies, I give them a verbal punch in the nose, exactly what bullies deserve.”

—

And you pride yourself on being “open minded”. Am I correct?

Time and time again I have seen you comment someone’s post when they weren’t addressing you directly. And you do this with ill intent. You seem to gain great joy out of flaming others opinions.

Example: The two of us have differences in opinions yet, you’re the only one between us that seems bothered by this. The truth is you’re intolerant of others points of view. There’s a word for this.

I will continue being civil with you although I rarely receive the same in return.

AFriend, May 12 at 9:37 am #

ardee,

You are truly a small person. For a “progressive” you are awfully intolerant in allowing others their own opinions.

.................

Perhaps you might review the posts that led you to form such an opinion. You might discover that I return what I am offered rather than instigate rudeness. Your comment is unfair and perhaps biased. I do not know which but if someone responds to a post of mine with civility I return the kindness, and if I am attacked by a couple of schoolyard bullies, I give them a verbal punch in the nose, exactly what bullies deserve.

In my years of activism, before school boards, boards of supervisors, mayors aides, housing authorities,judges, permit boards etc., ad infinitum I acted with civility because that was the only way to progress. The bullies here seek no progress only to tear down what they barely comprehend.

How about you?

Please stop encouraging DWIGHT..it makes the thread so long as to make all opinions ineffectual.

Do you honestly think that he is going to change his “opinion” about anything? Give it up…it just makes him post longer ones…

”Al Gore is a standard liberal militarist and zionist.  But I liked parts of his book.  Even a blind acorn can find a pig.”—FolkTruther

I wish you would go into more detail about Al Gore’s “Zionism” et al. Also I think you mean a blind pig can find an acorn, don’t you?

Dwight, this was about the reinstatement of the patently un-Constitutional Military Commissions Act that is just a military kangaroo court. By a man of touted change, president #44 Barak H. Obama, which is just from the Bush/Cheney Axis of Evil in the first place. What do you have to say about it? Do you even care in your ramblings in the mind on such a serious issue? I do and it must be stopped. [I don’t think we should even have military courts as separate from civil or criminal courts.]

To all my Pals and Gals on TRUTHDIG

We all are guilty as charged of being just human.  We all have more problems today than before.  We all slip and fall and slip back into that old state of being that we thought we had conquered.  But at the end of the day we all must admit that we did the best we could.  Then as this little piece of prose states—- look for the cloud of Unfulfilled Hopes and Dreams to come along—-It might just start raining.

THE CURVES IN LIFE’S ROAD

Looking ahead
Where the next curve in Life’s Road began
I thought I saw a
Man Standing

I continued on walking
Doing the things of life
Plenty to do with all the troubles, stress and strife
I kept my eyes glued to the road
I seldom looked up
I thought I had a good plan
So I kept my head down
And along I trod

Some days were joyous
Some days were blue
Some seasons come and went
Others seemed to stay and stay

Walking daily a voice was clear
I think it was the man standing
Just around the next curve of the road of life
I seldom heard the voice
Every time I did I needed a reprieve
It seemed to come at the very last moment
To bring me some relief

When younger the next curve in the road of life
Seemed so very far away
But the older I got the next curve became closer
Was it the walking that got me closer?
Or was it the seasons of life that
Moved the curve closer to me

Was it the loneliness of loss?
Or was it the minor threats of death that would come
Stay then go

What was the cloud of unfulfilled hopes doing over the
Next curve in LIFE’S ROAD
Was it some other thing I had forgotten about that I must?
Deal with?

I loved my life and the things that I could do
I struggled with many things but I continued to endure the
Seemed endless journey of learning
So many leaned on me
It was OK for a long while
But then other needs came
And my endless energy seemed to wane

Was it the cloud of UNFULFILLED HOPES?
That cast the DARK SHADOW over my path?
I think so

I heard the voice of the Man Standing,
It was different from all others
Clear and bright the words rang out
Stop take a break
I continued trodding along
Again the words came stop take a break
I slowed the pace
I saw a tree an abundance of shade
I sat down near the trunk and leaned back

I slipped into to rest then sleep
Was it my time to go on?
Or was this the time to reflect re-direct then proceed?
Filled with wonderment and joy from the peace of rest
A song began to swell up in me
Where sadness had dwelt for Years

Going on seemed less a struggle
And more a new adventure
Looking at all the joys that life had given
Yet I had refused to take a break
I thought then pondered
WHY NOT STOP RIGHT HERE

The voice of the MAN STANDING came again
Do it today
I guess it was OK with HIM
My eyes had become dim
My stride was less than when was I was younger
My resolve to get things done
Was not set in flint like before
Some things I had decided was not needed
So why wage a war?

I heard thunder
I walk away from the tree
And a light shower was coming down
I looked and the CLOUD OF UNFULFILLED HOPES was
Where the rain was falling

In my life that was the first day
That I saw
The LIGHT OF DAY
In that NEW WAY

A cool refreshing rain was coming from
THE CLOUD OF UNFULFILLED HOPES
Rain kept falling
No more steps were calling
MY ROAD OF LIFE
Was at a time of pause and refreshing

In time the rain ended
The could of UNFULFILLED HOPES was gone
The DARK SHADOW over my road was gone

One day I heard the same voice again
I knew it was HIS the man standing
Get up time to travel on

Back on MY ROAD OF LIFE

By Dwight Baker 2005 copyright
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ardee,

You are truly a small person. For a “progressive” you are awfully intolerant in allowing others their own opinions.

The Jolly Pirating Privateers
By Dwight Baker

  A cup of soup they say and a biscuit with butter today they say “If you bums who think you are so damn smart will just go away, and leave us to hell alone we are the JOLLY PIRATING PRIVATEERS we are on our mission———we have been summoned from the past——-from the archives of the WORST OF THE WORST the MOST PERVERSE thieves and robber barons and warmongering BUNCH to rob yet again the American People and further the BUSH BUNCH and all others in BAD BOYS CAUSE CLUB to make America a Mecca for only a select few.” 

  Who could deny that might be the real reality of where each one of us are in our short mortal history?

  Afghanistan SAY WHAT?  Who in America with a right, sound and sane mind——-needs to be concerned with that mountainous place where growing poppies to make dope has been their way more than a thousands years? And supposed to believe——that we are going to change with military mite the will of those who posses in all ways the jeers jabs and years upon years with tears upon tears the innocence blood on their hands that lay dead by their hands by the many warring chieftains who love to make war.  Killing upon killing is in their fables told as encyclopedic in content to sway their young from their god given good and godly conscience to that of a warring maddening cry for more war.

  Afghanistan WHAT FOR?  Simple for anyone to understand—- are the sounds that comes from those dark dreary board rooms where the elite of the RICH AND BURGEONING CHICKEN HAWKS WITH POWER AND POLITICAL PAY OFFS TO THEIR PRIDE comes the gavel hitting the top of the table that and proclaims,——“Hell boys enough is enough we got to have that Afghanistan land to lay our pipelines.”

  Afghanistan WE GOT TO KEEP CONTROL OF THE DISTRIBUTION OF THOSE POPPY CROPS———- SAY WHAT?  Make no doubt about it folks the BIG FAT CAT INSANE BOYS are in that too. “Hell, they say why not good for the bottom line easy profit, not chump change by any means”

  And is heard by some——- come on BAKER prove it.

  But BAKER says I will give you the places to resource it on your own then you will own it for yourself and be totally convinced as am I.

http://enarpri.org/Article.php?article_id=163 look for pipelines needed for the GIANT FIND OF OIL AND GAS CALLED THE TENGIZ

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/List-of-famous-drug-smugglers
The Afghanistan connection.  Do not forget to zoom in on YALE and then if you need to read on and go to the sites that clearly revels from the list of the SKULL AND BONES BUNCH that has been in power for a long long time.

  If all is so as we have found out clearly stated WHAT CAN WE DO? 

REVOLT with pen and paper in hand——-we still have that right——your strong strident sane sound good and godly words.  Tell all you know and care about ENOUGH is ENOUGH.

The for those that really care and want to put a talk to your words JOIN FORCES for the work needed to be done to form our own lobby in Washington DC called the WTPA——WE THE PEOPLE ADVOCATES our own LOBBY in DC.  Contact for insight into the grass roots efforts where help is needed to get out the message WE WILL OVERCOME .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

foggyjones, May 12 at 7:14 am #

I truly have no interest in continuing a dialogue with a sophomoric little fellow as yourself. FYI, not that you care for anything more than your own image reflected in the monitor, but I first came to this site in 2007, I am in my sixties , the father of four and grandfather of fourteen and two thirds.

When approached with an adult level of conversation I respond in kind, when attacked by a childish little shit like you I tend to respond in kind as well. I would remind you of your hypocracy with this citing of your response to conservativeslayer:

foggyjones, May 5 at 7:51 pm #

TUESDAY   643 PM/CST   DFW

Right, you voted for Obama but now you have seen the light. Gimme a break, you never voted for Obama. But you guys just growl and hang on to the same old dry bones. If it wasn’t Gitmo or abortion, it would be about spending another trillion fighting those hoardes of terrorists invading the USA. Wake up and smell the coffee, dude, nobody is interested in that old Moral Majority rhetoric. Jobs, wrecked 401Ks, unpredictable gas and energy prices looming ahead, wrecked stock market, awesome bailouts and, my God!, you think anybody gives a flying Fk about Gitmo?

That is absurd and you are just wasting good blogging space.

...Speaking of wasted space, you hypocrite!

For Mr. Baker:

I care not a fig for your religious convictions, sir, what I come here for is not a recitation of your opinion of the politics of Jerusalem two thousand years ago, or your opinion of my mental state either. What I desire is an honest debate regarding the issues of the day, so, in order to achieve such I will leave you two little boys alone with each other..play nice now kids and there will be milk and cookies later…kosher if possible.

By ardee, May 12 at 6:34 am #

Maybe time for you to take a break, conflabgregate- conjugate, collaborate, congregate, and flock to gather with some unique or specific or another point or points of view to need to, figure which –a- way the wind is blowing?  You seem to just refuse to accept that I am a Jew too.

I met at the airport in OKC to the most highly honored Rabbi Earl Grollman that deals with death issues.  http://www.wickedlocal.com/belmont/archive/x401621568/Rabbi-Grollman- He had come to make a speech to us about what to do in Hospice.

We talked and laughed a lot took him on a little tour of Oklahoma toward our final destination. He smiled often sometimes rolled out a good belly laugh we had fun.  The other guy a good friend of mine sat in the back seat and had not a lot to say, except ask a few dumb questions.  OH NO he must have been spending tooooo much time on TRUTHDIG.

Just before we got to the auditorium the Rabbi grab my hand and said “Dwight you are the most open person I have ever been around.”  I think I then said “Oh shucks you mean it” he and I laughed real loud again. 

Now all being Jewish and bound and determined to rid me cause they thank I ain’t One of the Crowd good book to read but gosh got to get that name just right or off to the stoning fields so tis is the book that is OUR CROWD.  To be whipped with words scorned and abused for not knowing the right conjugation of verbs, sentence structure, homilies just right, puns, and all the other nice names for painting words pictures too hard for the dumb gentiles to figure out or can figure a way out.

So for all the supposed Big Shots here on Truthdig just pick up the phone call and/or write or blog Rabbi Earl Grollman http://thegriefblog.com/grief/healing-the-grieving-heart-radio/grief-and-bereavement/healing-with-hope-rabbi-earl-grollman/ and asks him this one question?  Real smart Jews know how to ask good questions.  That tends to lead their opponent into entrapment.

We have got this guy on the ropes just about ready to take him to the stoning fields——He says his name is Dwight Baker, he said he picked you up at the Airport in Oklahoma City for a Hospice affair in Duncan Oklahoma, He said he took you around showed you the Wichita Mountains drove you up Mt. Scott, had laughs a lot.  He said you said he was a very open person RIGHT OR WRONG.

Now if that is not enough then have a séance [you know that gathering that some good Jews thought up when having too much time or their hands] and call up Mother her name is Wanda and when she appears ask her did her son Dwight Baker give her a book to read by Earl Grollman on about how to live with the loss of a Husband?  Then if those are not enough I got four or more names of ones you can call to check out that story.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Séance

Now you know almost all of the story cause I got to be like yousuns and lay behind the log a bit with a retort of some kind or a nutterother.

Shalom

TUESDAY   602 AM/CST   DFW/USA

REF: ARDEE

I knew you would eventually crack up. You need to be examined by a professional. Your final (I hope) post sets the bar for those who have nothing to answer or add to the central issue.

It is not all about you, it is the issue of handling the Gitmo situation and the tangential issues like Nancy Pelosi’s denials and Jane Harman’s denials on sundry security issues.

Perhaps if you took the time to read up on the issues and keep abreast of the developing thread, you would not become so frustrated, erupt with lambasting the top contributor to Truthdig.

Sorry Ardee, perhaps you would fare better if you spent a few months practicing on Yahoo chat, questions and answers. Things may be a tad to intense around here. But, you are probably very young and I am sure you will catch up, eventually.

DWIGHTBAKER, May 11 at 6:28 am #

When Bob Scheer set up TRUTHDIG it was for those with an informed opinion to have forums of discussion that would lead most to resolutions needed for the well being of our Nation.
................................

But did he intend to provide a forum for a religious nutjob to spout almost incomprehensible rants about the history of Judaism and the relationship between the poster and his belief system?

What on earth your proselytizing has to do with political discourse is a mystery, frankly, and , once again I ask you, arent you delaying the doing of your “master’s bidding” in remaining here after you noted that you were late to overthrow the Bilderberg Conspiracy in the nameo f Jesus?

Ref: ARNEE

Now see here Arnee, you got some serious feedback on your claimed heritage and all that comes with it, but you say you are unable to grasp the meaning in ordinary English words and, more or less, stand syntax. True, I do need new glass and one little finger no longer obeys, but most people seem to understand.

Arnee, you know what I think? I think you are telling the truth, you really don’t know what I am talking about. Kinda funny, really.

By ardee, May 11 at 6:06 am

I do not have any problem with foggyjones comments——why do you?  Seems to me you want to lay behind the log as if you are bumfuzzled that he knows. Cleary he called you a Zionist and that opens up a core of thought that goes way back into history—- so what was confusing about that?

And the other un-needed thing that is done often on TRUTHDIG is lambasting all that come along with an opinion or questions that goes to the heart of the one commenting. And at that time their normal recourse is deny ALL then to attack the one commenting like a pack of wild dogs do.

When Bob Scheer set up TRUTHDIG it was for those with an informed opinion to have forums of discussion that would lead most to resolutions needed for the well being of our Nation.  Now question——do you work toward those kinds of goals? Are you more into derision of any that call your hand?

I don’t know anything about you but I have read a few of your words and to me you do not have an informed opinion and you do not bring much to this forum that could lead to the many resolutions needed for the well being of our Nation.

DB

By foggyjones, May 8 at 12:14 pm #

FRIDAY   1105 AM/CST DFW

REF: ARDEE

Ardee is clearly an ardent zealot delivering another irrational declaration about the sorrow and misery of his zionist sect. you forgot to add the usual stories of the romans and the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem and the Holocaust. You phoney, there have been millions of Anglo-Saxon Jews. It is hard to determine whether you are simply lying or truly ignorant.

................................

I would love to respond to this comment, but I haven’t a single clue as to what the hell you are babbling about. Of course, having read much of your efforts here I clearly see that neither do you.

Max, I think Cheney, Rumsfield and Bush differed from previous imperialists by being crazed pschopaths bent on demented military adventure.  They embodied what Eric Hobsbabm called the ‘megalomainia’ of imperialism. 

No other US adminitration helped orchestrate a false flag operation on the civilian American people and declared an endless war based on agression, torture and coercion against a minor world police problem.  Obama is continuing that war.

Al Gore is a standard liberal militarist and zionist.  But I liked parts of his book.  Even a blind acorn can find a pig.  Or something like that.  Even Inherit sometimes says something relevant, interesting a progressive in between accusing the world of anti-semitism and setting up an Arabian Califate (which I have dibs on being the Caliph.)  Gore’s campaign manager was Peretz, the publisher of the Zionist New Republic.

FRIDAY   1105 AM/CST DFW

REF: ARDEE

Ardee is clearly an ardent zealot delivering another irrational declaration about the sorrow and misery of his zionist sect. you forgot to add the usual stories of the romans and the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem and the Holocaust. You phoney, there have been millions of Anglo-Saxon Jews. It is hard to determine whether you are simply lying or truly ignorant.

“Thus that proves to me that your claim to be Jew(?) is more along the line of the RICH and OVER BURDENING Saducees than those along the lines of the Pharisees. And to that end you and those like you are called to represent the Bilderbergs looking to money to solve all life crisis them that has got the money makes all the rules.”—Dwight Baker

Well, your first line is a bit unfocused to me. What is “my claim to be Jew” mean? I never claimed or inferred that at all. I don’t hate you or anything like that. To me it is a myth. Live with it. I live with you believing it is all real don’t I? No harm no foul eh? Chill.

“Now I want you to take your best shots at me to really try and kill that fire that burns in me today for soon I will be gone from TRUTH DIG, for I have dug up the treasures that laid right here in the ones that Post the Most back yard now we must tend to the Masters business and take our country back away from that crooked ass bunch the Bilderbergs.”

There are plenty of super rich right here and not a Bilderberg in sight of them. Richer than they are and just as powerful and Christian too. I have no interest in your fire. You take it too personally and ascribe to me characteristics I do not possess but you might though. Ever heard of the term ‘projection’ in you lexicon? To me it fits. Sorry if I struck a nerve too close to your home.

“So your entire persona of claiming these dumb ass preachers leading everyone into slavery is just absurd.  Most of them have not got a clue but they like many more like the money.  Have you never heard “that the love of money is the root of all evil?”

Yes, I heard. Let us take it to a deeper level shall we? Don’t insult me with the kindergarten material okay? Who said they were “preachers” necessarily and many of them are also industrialists and millionaires and in the military too.  The families are all American and many of them believe in their brand of Christianity that also supports their elitism and general view of the world. What I said was true and Constantine created the idea of the Christian Soldier used ever since. The Dominionists are anything but “dumb” or they couldn’t have gotten this far.

“So MosesNG have your hay day while the pagans have their May Day and all stay in some type of mindless chit chat while our nation is burning and we the ones called will go save you just because we love all of mankind.”

Good, while you are following the red herring of the European Banking family ( who would lose more if they supported our collapse) the real criminals will follow through and bring this country down so that they can build on its ruins a new American Empire. Oh and why are you still insulting Moses?

“Now try beating your tongue into submission.”

Nice parting shot. Maybe you should take your own advice. Or is that an insult? If so then I will apologize for you. For your tongue wags in a crazy way on its own. Quaint and eccentric. Read the 1st Amendment for a refresher.

There are some very real myths among those who seek to blame ‘worldwide Jewry’ for all the problems in this world. They use the fact that jews are far more likely to be in commerce than agriculture for example, forgetting that jews were banned from ownership of land for centuries.

Further they forget ,or more likely refuse to consider, that the real wealth of this planet resides within white anglo saxon families, as it has for a very long time. They also seem hell bent on linking a religion ( Judaism) with a government ( that of Israel).

I guess noone can dissuade these folks from their beliefs, but I for one hope that this minority among us experiences a moment of sanity , and real soon too.

Gotta run now, Im meeting with two of the twelve rabbis who run the world…oops Ive said too much.

foggyjones, May 7 at 5:05 pm

I was told earlier today that our Webb Site would be up and running, have not checked yet. Been over at CARE 2 giving some encouraging words to one who had a great loss.

Well let me get rough and ready to rumble again to deal with all the pals and gals as TRUTHDIG. Your words sometimes to me come out OK then other times I am a little disappointed. But hey that is just real life.

Some of the crew at TRUTHDIG like to make a spectacle out of me too——I think to make them feel better.  Maybe not enough sex or money or both who cares?  But I must go from TRUTHDIG for now I will be missing trying to teach Jews about what they are and where they come from and what my Creator God has in His plans for them.

But the pickens here have been slim for me, lots of work, derision, chiding, back stabbing false witness you know the routine. And now it seems some of the crew will not even follow the Noahide laws.  Beats me I am an adopted Jew by my God and I know more than them——I don’t get it maybe their rabbi was skilled at playing tennis and that is about all.  Well enough said I asked Scheer and his crew to check in with me about helping with advertising We the People Advocates have not heard so that in sex and business means NO.

Maybe someday soon they will come around hope it is not to late to get going to saving our nation. One thing about me Foggyjones, I hate like hell burning bridges.  I respect you now and will forever.  Keep up trying to keep the young’uns in line best as you can.

Dwight

FRIDAY   344 PM/CST   DFW

REF: DWIGHTBAKER

Your postings are important. Today, I particularly appreciated you helpful input on Jewish tradition and delinination of certain sects. On that note, I suggest you continue to stress both the scope and depth of this tradition from the founding of this nation until this very moment. In the broad sense, I suggest to you that Jews are NOT really a minority in this nation. In a nutshell, Christian values are inextricably intertwined with Jewish history and tradition. Millions upon millions who deny they are not Jews, are in denial. The distinction they offer is trivia, splitting hairs, counting the angels dancing on the head of a pin. But you, DwightBaker, point out some very important distinctions amongst Jewish sects. And that is a crucial distinction in comprehending our government and whom is controlling our government. You must encourage us to dig deeper, think harder about this crucial issue.

I do not mind your bursts of passion, it suggests a strong heart and who can dismiss your reasoning and extensive knowledge. I respectfully remind you to keep it betwen the lines but press on, “Hotspur!”

Folktruther,

To your reference of Gore, while he’s made some conversions, his role in pushing for military interventionism and the Washington Consensus is well documented. There is not saintly “reasonable” player when it comes to the empire. Just a lot of cheap tit for tat talk (again, political theater that knows its clear boundaries of what’s in and out of bounds for discourse.)

Folktruther

I’m not sure what an imperial president (which is what we’ve had for many many decades - some would argue since the inception of the United States) can do to un-imperialize the US Empire. I would say, Russia provides one example and Britain another. Perhaps the US Empire will find another way to end.

The system provides the context for GW Bush, not the other way around. I would argue that Bush has followed the legacy set for him. That he was bad at it can certainly be supported by various facts, but all and all he is the result of the Empire. He did not make the rules. The treaties and rules have been trashed through much of US history. Used when convenient to prosecute two bit dictators; and relatively week tyrannts.

We lost the Republic (the one Franklin said it was ours to keep or loose) many many decades ago. We looked for a savior and found it first with Lincoln and to a greater extent in FDR. The latter, though he is a favorite of liberals, but the nail in the coffin of the Republic by concentrating near total power in the executive branch (you can argue his cause was just, but in the end it’s a bargain with the devil; you can’t have your cake (republic) and eat it (live in a republic) too).

The concentration of power is no where clearer than in the US’s National Security which claims the world is ours to preserve for the sake of democracy/liberty where, when and how we please. We take this so for granted that it is the mantra which must be campaigned on and carried out above all else by each President.

In this context, George W. Bush becomes less and less an actor than a principle adherent to the American DC Consensus Ideology. Again, he carried out this deal with less finesse than some, with a ruthlessness, minus cunning and charm of his predecessors - which is his biggest crime in the eyes of the power elite.

The play book is in secure hands with Obama. He is everything and more that the power elite could ask for. The grand symbolisim allows him to march forward with the same policies as Bush (at least for now).

Each and everyone of them should be prosecuted, but none will; because Each and EVERYONE of them is something that is totally and completely unacceptable. The great inertia of political haggling will see to it that Bush will go un-scathed by his butchery. Remember to that if we are to mark this maddness by sheer numbers of lives destroyed, certainly Clinton would lead Bush on that front.

Stealing elections is meaningful if there is trully a difference between the core policies.

Night-Gaunt, May 7 at 1:00 pm

I have and will continue to answer questions that are relevant that are not leading and do not promote your vile and cruel agenda predicated on your hatred of any one that lays claim to follow the MYTH.  Thus that proves to me that your claim to be Jew is more along the line of the RICH and OVER BURDENING Sadducees than those along the lines of the Pharisees. And to that end you and those like you are called to represent the Bilderbergs looking to money to solve all life crisis them that has got the money makes all the rules.

Now I want you to take your best shots at me to really try and kill that fire that burns in me today for soon I will be gone from TRUTH DIG, for I have dug up the treasures that laid right here in the ones that Post the Most back yard now we must tend to the Masters business and take our country back away from that crooked ass bunch the Bilderbergs.

So to get you a little more inclined to know what you are talking about try this out.  Constantine saw the need to take hold of the fable of JESUS CHRIST as he thought because the workers in his kingdom of rule were better than the drunks and perverts that the pagan’s gods had produced. So you said falsely that since 1934 they have been trying to rule the world “son” that has been going on since and before Constantine, and the Laws of Moses are to be used to rule over the name used—-re-animalized man.  The fat cats Bilderbergs do not believe in any thing or God or man other than their own NEED for GREED self proclaimed god of themselves.  I have met with just like men and women before and they were like being in a freezer. Cold, cruel, cunning, and only looking at me for what they could get then out the door. 

So your entire persona of claiming these dumb ass preachers leading everyone into slavery is just absurd.  Most of them have not got a clue but they like many more like the money.  Have you never heard “that the love of money is the root of all evil?”

So MosesNG have your hay day while the pagans have their May Day and all stay in some type of mindless chit chat while our nation is burning and we the ones called will go save you just because we love all of mankind.

Now try beating your tongue into submission.
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FolkTruther you must understand that some of the richest families and powerful and connected corporations they own have been working toward cementing control over us since they first tried in 1934. (No it wasn’t the Progressives as Glenn Beck promotes.) The “Fraternity” failed but weren’t punished so they traded with the enemy (the Axis) and bide their time till in 1980 they got their front man elected. Just coincided with the beginning decline of the Middle Class continuing now. From 1945 to 1980 were when the Middle Class was formed and at its height, then a steady decline. That wasn’t an accident either.

They are working to bring us down in order to build up their new world of a Calvinist Utopia for the 21st century. We even now are teetering on the edge of the abyss they are waiting with their claws to give us a hand to save us. From barbarism to exchange for a rigid theocratic militaristic corporate nation-state. [Shock Doctrine for us.] Believe me, most would chose that over violence and cannibalism and social destruction should we collapse from a terrorist precipitated economic shock to a fragile situation.

Think of Obama as the lesser appearing evil hidden unlike the brain damaged 1st choice that a judge stopped them from giving us. Remember that the lead IT guy was called in and later died before he could spill the secrets he knew. Cheney’s hit squad in action?

Max, what the Bushites did different from their predicessors is to orchestrate a domestic false flag operation that killed 2 or 3 thousand Americans.  this after stealing the election and impeaching Clinton over some triviality.

This is a crazy adventure and has led to a crazy leadership of the American power sructure.  It led to the power sec of Defense invading a country using his new military gizmos and completely ignoring occupying it, firing the generals who advocated it.  It led to what Al Gore called in his book AN ASSAULT ON REASON that including the hijacking of US policies by Zionists.  IT institutionalized political and ideological insanity.

this is not irrelevant to imperialism in an age with nuclear weapons.  It is why Geogia attacked Russia, and the US and Israel is still insanely conducting military exercises there agaainst Russia.  It is why the US under Obama is still bent on putting first strike missiles into Poland.

The political counter revolution by the Bushites, continued by Obama, accentuated that megalomania that the British historian Eric Hobsbawn stated is common to imperialism.  I would guess more so in its last stages historically. 

I don’t think it is possible for the American population to effectively resist the oppression of the US power structure without factoring in the political insanity that has both preconditioned and is the consequence of the Bushite political counter revolution.

hippie4ever—I cant seem to remember where it was, but, I followed your links to Naomi Klein and Marcy Kaptur—good stuff…I was looking for Klein’s interview.

Cute cartoon on the end, too. (you have to wait—-or I did, and, then it logs off and then…lol)

NYCArtist—Excellent links..

Night Guant—That may be ok, for those who have the time and resources. But for those who do not, it is just a confusing swirl. (many times, you just know that you are being bullshitted, but, you cannot get true info anywhere—not everyone has full internet access, nor even cable, although cable news, except maybe c-span, will do you no good in looking for objectivity)In most modern, “democratic” countries, there is state sponsored news, which is supposed to not have a stake in the outcome of the news (well, you know what I mean)

It may not always be true,(although, Scandanavian public tv blasts the hell out of its govt—an exciting thing to see!) but, as long as google and Murdoch keep monopolizing the news, most cannot hope to get objective news, although I do think objectivity is possible.

Dwight Baker doesn’t like to answer questions given to him. He dissembles and equivocates and deflects to others. A dead end as much as a dejected and angry Moses when he saw those following the worship of the Golden Calf when he returned from Mount Siani with the Ten Commandments. (The first set anyway.)

Why don’t you read my other threads to get your answers. And while you are at it what are some of your ways of correcting this problem 226 years in the making?

hippie4ever, May 7 at 11:17 am

You have not a clue that means you are clueless, so else could you ever give anyone but that?

I will warn and plead for a time then go on my way so heed the warnings and develop a plan any plan before it is too late.

And as far as you assuming who I am or what I do and why I do what I do is beyond your comprehension.

But one thing will become a fact near term——MY WORDS OF WARNING will match up with the EVIL DEEDS THAT ARE ON THE WAY.

Night-Gaunt, May 7 at 11:05 am

JackPineSavage

Many of you were not in the death camps of Hitler——but I have heard from many of them speak of the tragedy of not taking the head and warning that come from the East to flee at once. Thus again you thought to be nobles are doing the same thing—-as if you had time to chit chat and patty cake all the issues trying to figure your best deal as has been the case for a long long time.  So it has come down from Sinai delivered by NIGHT GUANT just ignore Dwight Baker who does this schtick every time, on many threads for he is a gentile that believes in the MYTH and is not a good one at that.

So MOSES NIGHT GUANT what is your plan for the EXODUS or the STAND against the tyranny that is at our back door?

Are you the Nehemiah sent to rebuild the walls and gates or are you just one more that wait and mediate until it is too late?

Will you answer those for us and me alike?

Dwightbaker, you need to chill out, man. You’re talking crazy talk, like Parsons on acid or John Birch on too much caffeine. Yes times are bad and people are now socially conditioned and blinded by a comprehensive propaganda apparatus (can I say prop-app?) but here’s the thing: we cannot defeat our adversaries by sliding into hysteria. Rationality matters, truth matters, logic rules, man. Take a deep breath, go for regular walks, and contemplate the essence of now. Blather about biblical history is so very unhelpful and is one hallmark of a crackpot. Step away from the dark side.

A day in a military tribunal, as a person with a label that has no legal meaning (“enemy combatant”) is not a real day in court, as lopsided as the US court system is in getting equal justice for all.  But a real US court is better than a military tribunal. 

I go with the lawyers who I respect on this: Marjorie Cohn http://www.marjoriecohn.com

and Michael Ratner, Center for Constitutional Justice.

Jeremy Scahill’s blog is good, too. RebelReports
http://rebelreports.com

Yes JackPineSavage that is the case and as we continue in the inverted authoritarian model we can shift to the overt with just the least catalyst. Watch with skepticism but not a closed mind. Read voraciously from all possible points of view till you find those that fit what you see as the sense of things. When you cut through the managed data stream to what you can perceive as the truth. For you see perception is reality. Objecivism is impossible in a quantum probable world but you can work at it. The only way you can have in a ‘no spin zone’ is that all spinning forces are acting at once to negate each other. ‘Spin’ being the bias, natural to anyone, being implicit in each and every news source. Even just a little. We can overcome it by reporting things we don’t like but as truthful and complete as possible.

Knowledge of rhetoric and propaganda to the language itself and how to construct and deconstruct the means of communication and nuance and even layered forms of speech. In code, so-to-speak also are important. It takes time and effort and could cool you personal life with friends and lovers but it is important. Not having many friends and no lovers I have plenty of time to do so. Mine is an exception in this case. Better than being drugged out by far.

Oh and just ignore Dwight Baker who does this schtick every time, on many threads.

My purpose here is to state my opinion, just like everyone else, ardee.

And my opinion is that your hope is hollow.  As others have pointed out, Obama is just a continuation.  He’s certainly no break from the past.

I have no clue what he thinks and feels, but that’s immaterial.  He’s put on the purple robe to strut and fret his hour upon the stage. 

I have no political loyalties, ardee.  Why would i be loyal to a form of politics, a politician, or a party?  None of them are going to return the favor.

If i were to develop political loyalties it would come from someone practicing a logical, historically informed, long-term foreign policy.  But that isn’t going to to happen so i don’t have to worry about loyalties.

But go ahead and keep trying to insinuate that i’m a closet Republican here to stir up trouble…seems as that’s all you’ve got. (and, btw, i’ve been here for several years so i’m pretty confident that the regulars know that is not the case.)

In this day and circumstances only a fool would sign such a list. Better think of something else. BY FOGGYJONES NO YOU THINK OF SOMETHING BETTER————

LED, FOLLOW OR GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY——- WHO IS SMART ENOUGH TO JUDGE MY BOOK BY ITS COVER?  WHO AMONG THE JEWS TODAY HAS THE NEHEMIAH SPIRIT TO REBUILD THE WALLS AND GATES IN FIFTY-THREE DAYS?  HOW MANY COMMENTING HERE ON TRUTHDIG ARE AFRAID OF THEIR OWN SHADOW?  WHO COMMENTING HERE ON TRUTHDIG HAVE FORGOTTEN THEIR ABRAHAM COVENANT?  1-2

NOW ANOTHER FLY IN THE SOUP http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/613.html

Gods Chosen people the JEWS are now on both sides of the fence.  Both are JEWS by birth and maybe some even stay up with the rituals and some of the cultures of Judaism.  But who practices the Laws of Moses today?  The aristocracy of the Temple Worship is gone, the elite Sadducees if still around have gone underground.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadducees

The Pharisees may still exist to a degree. But certainly not using that name to identify what they do and who they are.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharisees#From_political_party_to_sect:_Sadducees.2C_Essenes.2C_and_Pharisees_in_the_Roman_period

http://www.scribd.com/doc/9633774/World-events-History-Timeline500-000-BC2000-AD-

The growth of the Jewish people began to grow and expand after settling in the land of Israel—- King David taxed the commerce and trade routes that enriched his kingdom. Solomon built the First Temple in Jerusalem the aristocracy of the group Sadducees took over the priesthood of running the Temple.  That included many enrichments for them at a time when the majority of Jewish folks were still peasants.

When I was in Israel I walked through the homes of some of the Sadducees who lived just west of the Temple Mount.  They were lavish beyond measure having baths spas or ritual emersion baths in many rooms that was decorated with rich frescos and tile. Most of the most were more than 3,000 sq. ft. 

The Sadducees were closely entwined with the Roman Leaders that occupied Israel and bribery then was the order of the day as is today.  The Sadducees were guilty of not following the Laws of Moses but simply using those Laws to benefit them and their kin ONLY.  Thus it has become clear to me today that the old order of Sadducees has been resurrected by the Bilderbergs to take over once again and put all back into servitude to them. And the fact that David Koch Jewish wants to use select Laws Moses to rule the world for his benefit now makes sense.  And in the foundation of the Bilderbergs many Jewish names appear.  Some of the Bankers in Germany that were Jewish at the time of the Holocaust looked the other way as their kin were carted of to the gas chambers.  WHY they made a lavish fortune supporting Hitler agendas.

NOW THE QUESTION IS WHAT CAMP DO YOU BELONG IN?

THE VOICES FOR WE THE PEOPLES ADVOCATES—-WTPA Dwight Baker Chairman for Grass Roots Actions needed to form our own lobby to power push or wants, needs, wishes for all acts in equity by actions of Justice. PO BOX 7065 Eagle Pass, TX 78853 Tel/fax 1-830-773-1077 E-mail .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

In this day and circumstances only a fool would sign such a list. Better think of something else. BY FOGGYJONES NO YOU THINK OF SOMETHING BETTER————

LED, FOLLOW OR GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY——- WHO IS SMART ENOUGH TO JUDGE MY BOOK BY ITS COVER?  WHO AMONG THE JEWS TODAY HAS THE NEHEMIAH SPIRIT TO REBUILD THE WALLS AND GATES IN FIFTY-THREE DAYS?  HOW MANY COMMENTING HERE ON TRUTHDIG ARE AFRAID OF THEIR SHADOW?  WHO COMMENTING HERE ON TRUTHDIG HAVE FORGOTTEN THEIR ABRAHAM COVENANT?  2-2

NOW ANOTHER FLY IN THE SOUP http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/613.html

Now on the other side of Judaism during the time of our Lord were the Pharisees they believed in an afterlife and were the leaders in the synagogues that were sprinkled all around.  The Rabbis were the functional head of the synagogue that was a town hall meeting place, learning and place for study and prayer and the Rabbis were baby sitters for the women that worked.  Thus public education began for the Jews in the synagogue.  The Pharisees Rabbis wore the clothing prescribed by the Moses laws, while the Sadducees wore silks and fine lien to prove in adornment they were more than the common man.

Jesus rebuked the Sadducees for their profanity of the Temple worship for the Sadducees had turned that event of worship and cleansing for their Jewish folk from all over the inhabited world into a time to make profit.  The Sadducees did not believe in an after life when judgment by God of their transgressions would come.  The Sadducees could not kill Jesus because of the Law of Moses forbade.  But they again using their elites appealed to the Roman government to do so and it was done.  The Sadducees saw their con coming to and end and they took all the right steps to eliminate the voice that held them in derision and disdain for their open robbery of the people.

As most of us know today some of the most vocal good and morally sound voices that have been raised up against tyranny are those from Jewish ancestors, thus a good question is who are those from the mindset of the Pharisees?  I can name long list can you? 

And are those that are from Jewish ancestors that want to rape the world and bring about slavery to all of mankind from the mindset of the Sadducees?

NOW THE QUESTION IS WHAT CAMP DO YOU BELONG IN?

THE VOICES FOR WE THE PEOPLES ADVOCATES—-WTPA Dwight Baker Chairman for Grass Roots Actions needed to form our own lobby to power push or wants, needs, wishes for all acts in equity by actions of Justice. PO BOX 7065 Eagle Pass, TX 78853 Tel/fax 1-830-773-1077 E-mail .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

Conservativeslayer,

You were, in fact, duped.

It’s a shame more Americans didn’t look at the presidents history, read his books, study his associations and research his voting record. Most people assumed this politician’s colorful words were enough to vote for.—Of course the media’s love affair with their messiah didn’t help to educate the public.

I like President Obama on a personal level but, transparent he’s not!

By the way: Military tribunals are both constitutional and lawful. They are also, unfortunately, necessary.

Folktruther,

I appreciate your point. There is a difference between GW Bush and Clinton, but these are insignificant in the context of empire. That is my point.

There is some difference in degree. What GWB did was expose in unabashed “form” what this government does and has been doing.

I don’t think there is much that Bush did that hadn’t been done by predecessors, not all of it immediately before him.

This is a lawless nation. We’ve been going to war without Congressional declaration since Korea. We’ve occupied nations for centuries. I think a reading of the run up to WWI with the “progressive president of Princton” Woodrow Wilsom will provide you with an idea of just how bad it can get here regarding the Constitution, and civil/human rights.

TOO BAD NO MEN HERE ONLY MICE

THE LION HAS ROARED MORE THAN TWICE

SO NOW IS THE TIME FOR ALL THE MICE TO RUN AND HIDE

AND DO CHIT CHAT

THURSDAY 955 PM/CST DFW

REF: DWIGHTBAKER

In this day and circumstances only a fool would sign such a list. Better think of something else.

Did anyone see the “
news” that, we are considering (get ready) NOT selling (is it nukes??) arms to United Arab Emerites, because we have “tapes of them torturing people”—hey! We’re not allowed to say that anymore, folks!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Max, let me try again.  I am not talking about the substance of the policies of Clinton, Bush, Obama.  I am talking about the FORM THAT POWER TAKES.  With 9/11 and the War on Terrorism, the form that power takes in the US changed.  Congress and law were marginalized and we are ruled now administratively by presidential fiat and the police, intelligence agencies and military that the president controls.

A political revolution occurred, under the guise that we are at War, and always will be. Clinton did horrible things but he was opposed effectively by power in Congress and more or less obeyed the law.  Bush didn’t.  And Obama is continuing this transformation from tradition American Democracy, such as it is.

If you don’t accept that a power form has changed, that’s fine.  Most people don’t.  I still respect your posts.

ARE YOU ONE OF THE MEN THAT LIKE TO WIN HERE ON TRUTHDIG

The big problem in America today is that most are paranoid.  Why not?  Seems everyday the powerbrokers drop a new crisis.

But paranoid or not we better get our act together now before we rot.

The only hope that we have right now is the words in the Constitution that allows us as a people to take over when all is wrong with out taking it to the streets.

So those of us that comment on TRUTHDIG can keeping digging for more proof more reason idle chit chat or we can finally come together as a communed people and get down to business of taking back our Solvency and Sovereignty as a people who can rule themselves.

And I must get some proof from some of you that you can hear the drumbeat of the tyrants outside our doors if not I will quit wasting my time around here.

Not one person commenting here or looking in has asked to be sent the business plan of We The Peoples Advocates WHY?  Who knows but I will tell you for the last time there are no other way than beat the Bilderbergs at their own game. 

HELP US HELP YOU FREE OUR NATION FROM TYRANNY

We The Peoples Advocates WTPA are providing the only HOPE in saving our great nation.  So JOIN IN and ENLIST to serve with your VOICES being heard and your VOTES being counted and moved along to our lobby group in Washington DC to power push the peoples needs, wants and wishes in our cities, states and Federal Governments for all Americans to have the rights to life in all ways in equity adjudicated by the Bar of Justice.
Info contact Dwight Baker .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

5/6/2009 8:33:38 PM

WHO HAS THE EAR OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND?  1-4
WHO IS IN CONTROL OF THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION?

VIDEO MUST SEE
http://alhambracomputerservices.com/thematrixbilderberg.aspx

Last night for a bit I turned on CSPAN and got to watch a master of deceit play our Congressmen as a seasoned fiddler plays his violin.  He stated what he wanted to say and what he did not want to say with such authority and vigor the Congressman just sat there and quivered.

He was there representing the Obama Administration for a call for another 9 billion to be poured into Pakistan and Afghanistan for some kind of aid?  He said we must have it.  That sounded a bit like Hank Paulson.  So the hard questions he would not answer said he would do that in private.  As some of the lesser in power Congressman spoke he would interrupt them to make his glaring remarks.  As if they were stupid and he was not. 

So I just got sick again remember when the BUSH BUNCH OF THUGS did the same thing.  Then I thought back when Obama was saying a CHANGE is a coming. But now that looks like just idle words that have no deeds to prove his worth.

Now who was raising that money from our communed held treasury none other than Richard C. Holbrooke (Richard Moos); Trilateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations, Bilderberg Group , so there Obama goes again getting a chicken hawk crying for more war.  War makes big bucks going in no matter which way the BIG BOYS invest.  And the spoils of war always increase their stake wherever the war takes place. So when checking out Richard Holbrooke I ran across some other names too.

Dianne Feinstein, Senator; Trilateral Commission
* Madelaine Albright (Miriam Korbel); Trilateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations
* Richard C. Holbrooke (Richard Moos); Trilateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations, Bilderberg Group
* Henry Kissinger; Trilateral Commission, Bilderberg Group
* Alan Greenspan; Trilateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations
* Stanley Fischer, Chief Economist IMF, Chairman Bank of Israel; Bilderberg Group, Council on Foreign Relations
* Paul Wolfowitz, Neocon; Bilderberg Group
* Richarad Perle, Neocon; Bilderberg Group
* Nadine Strossen, Executive Director, ACLU; Council on Foreign Relations
* Mortimer Zuckerman, Chairman U.S. News and World Report; Trilateral Commission, Bilderberg Group
* Stephen Friedman, Co-Chairman Goldman Sachs & Co; Trilateral Commission
* Robert E. Rubin, Director Citigroup Inc; Council on Foreign Relations
* Peter R. Kann, CEO of Wall Street Journal; Trilateral Commission
* Katharine Graham, President Newsweek: Council on Foreign Relations
* Richard N. Haass; President, Council on Foreign Relations
* Martin S. Feldstein, President, National Bureau of Economic Research, Inc; Trilateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations, Bilderberg Group
So adding too my anxiety now more surface that are against the very Constitution that we say is the RULE of LAW that all should obey.

Top 100: Vanity Fair’s List of ‘The New Establishment’
(Annotated by M.C. Piper)
1. Rupert Murdoch, billionaire global media baron financed by the Rothschild, Bronfman and Oppenheimer empires. (Widespread belief that Murdoch is Jewish is disputed. See below.)
2. Steve Jobs, chief executive officer of the Apple computer conglomerate.
3. Sergey Brin and Larry Page, founders of Google, the Internet giant.
4. Stephen Schwarzman and Pete Peterson, founders of the Blackstone Group, a financial investment giant, representing shadowy cliques of plutocratic predators.

WHO HAS THE EAR 2-4

5. Warren Buffett, a longtime U.S. satellite of the European Rothschild family and one of the owners of the Washington Post publishing group.
6. Bill Clinton, former president of the United States.
7. Steven Spielberg, Hollywood producer and director, perhaps the most powerful man in the movie industry.
8. Bernard Arnault, French industrialist whose growing empire produces such luxury label items as Louis Vuitton, Christian Dior and Dom Perignon, among others.
9. Michael Bloomberg, billionaire New York mayor and possible presidential candidate who made his fortune in the financial news information industry.
10. Bill and Melinda Gates, the husband-and-wife team who are the rulers of the Microsoft computer colossas.
11. Carlos Slim Helú, Fortune magazine says this Mexican billionaire of Lebanese descent is the world’s richest man, controlling 200 companies that account for 7% of Mexico’s gross domestic product.
12. H. Lee Scott, president and chief executive of Wal-Mart.
13. Ralph Lauren, fashion industry tycoon.
14. Oprah Winfrey, widely promoted television personality.
15. Barry Diller and Diane von Furstenberg (husband and wife). Diller is a Hollywood figure who is now a major player in the television home shopping business. His wife is a major fashion designer.
16. David Geffen, Hollywood business partner of aforementioned Steven Spielberg and a major movie industry figure in his own right.
17. Howard Stringer, chief executive of the Sony corporation.
18. Richard Parsons, African-American front man was chief executive officer and chairman of the board of directors for the Zionist rulers of the Time-Warner media empire. (Recently stepped down.)
19. Al Gore, former vice president of the United States and father-in-law of an heir to the Schiff international banking fortune that financed the Bolshevik Revolution.
20. Larry Ellison, chief executive officer of Oracle, the database software giant known for his patronage of Israeli causes.
21. Herb Allen, head of the influential privately owned investment house of Allen & Co; he convenes an annual conclave of elite industrialists at Sun Valley, Idaho.
22. Jeff Bewkes, recently became CEO at the Time-Warner media empire (which has long been under the influence of the Bronfman family and other Zionist elements).
23. Jeff Bezos, the founder of the Amazon.com book and video Internet powerhouse.
24. Peter Chernin, runs Fox News for Rupert Murdoch and Murdoch’s behind-the-scenes sponsors.
25. Leslie Moonves, head of CBS, the fiefdom of the Sarnoff family.
26. Jerry Bruckheimer, Hollywood producer— major films and weekly television.
27. George Clooney, film star and supporter of liberal causes.
28. Bono, rock star & global poverty activist.
29. François Pinault, luxury brands king/art collector
30. Roman Abramovich, Russian oilman and financial wheeler dealer.
31. Ronald Perelman, billionaire cigar monopoly kingpin and head of the Revlon cosmetics giant.
32. Tom Hanks, actor/producer
33. Jacob Rothschild, global banking tycoon of the famed Zionist family and major behind-the-scenes influence in the United States through such associates as non-Jewish Warren Buffett.
34. Robert DeNiro, actor/producer.
35. Howard Schultz, founder of the Starbucks coffee shop chain.
36. Robert Iger, head of the Walt Disney media conglomerate.
37. Giorgio Armani, fashion designer and clothing tycoon.
38. Jeffrey Katzenberg, partner of aforementioned Spielberg and Geffen.

WHO HAS THE EAR 3-4

39. Ronald Lauder and Leonard Lauder, rulers of the Estee Lauder cosmetics empire; major figures in theWorld Jewish Congress.
40. George Lucas, Hollywood producer (best known for the Star Wars films and marketing gimmickry empire).
41. Harvey Weinstein and Bob Weinstein, major Hollywood producers.
42. Diane Sawyer and Mike Nichols (husband and wife). Sawyer is a television and “news” personality; Nichols is an influential Hollywood producer and director.
43. Bruce Wasserstein, chief of the powerful Zionist investment house of Lazard and owner of New York magazine.
44. Miuccia Prada, famed fashion icon and handbag designer.
45. Steven Cohen, hedge-fund manager at SAC Capital Advisers.
46. Tom Cruise, actor/producer closely associated with an organization known to have been taken over from within by assets of Israel’s intelligence service.
47. Jay-Z , rapper/entrepreneur
48. Ron Meyer, chief of Universal Studios, now under Bronfman family empire control.
49. Frank Gehry, architect.
50. Arnold Schwarzenegger, former actor-turned-governor of California, closely associated with Rothschild family associate Warren Buffett (see above).
51. Henry Kravis, leveraged buy-out king at Kohlberg, Kravis & Roberts; his wife is a major player in the Council on Foreign Relations, the New York-based adjunct of the Rothschild family’s London-based Royal Institute of International Affairs.
52. Karl Lagerfeld, head of the Chanel perfume empire.
53. Oscar and Annette de la Renta, fashion designers.
54. Martha Stewart, popular television personality and home products tycoon.
55. Mickey Drexler, chief of the J. Crew fashion company.
56. Michael Moritz, financier previously associated with Google and former journalist who was San Francisco bureau chef for Bronfman-controlled Time magazine. Holds an interest in Pay Pal and inYahoo.
57. Brian Roberts, heads Comcast, the nation’s largest cable company and second-largest Internet provider.
58. Roger Ailes, runs Fox News channel for Murdoch and associates.
59. Vivi Nevo, Israeli-born international investment tycoon who holds large takes in Time-Warner, Goldman Sachs and Microsoft. (One of his principal associates is Israeli arms dealer, Arnon Milchan, a major backer of Israel’s secret nuclear weapons development program.)
60. Mick Jagger, rock star.
61. Jeff Skoll, film producer.
62. Vinod Khosla, Indian-born, American-based major investor in “green” technologies such as solar, clean coal, fuel cells and cellulosic ethanol.
63. Diego Della Valle, major figure in the luxury accessories fashion industry, notably the Tod’s shoe company.
64. Stacey Snider, co-chief of DreamWorks, the Spielberg-Geffen-Katzenberg combine in Hollywood.
65. Brian Grazer and Ron Howard, major Hollywood producers.
66. John Lasseter, Disney-Pixar studios.
67. George Soros, infamous international wheeler-dealer.
68. Philippe Dauman, runs Viacom media giant for Zionist mogul Sumner Redstone (who also controls CBS).
69. John Malone, runs Liberty Media (Discovery Channel, USA network etc); formerly associated with Jerrold Electronics, founded by Milton Shapp, a devout Zionist who served two terms as governor of Pennsylvania.
70. Sumner Redstone, owner of the Viacom/CBS media giant.
71. Paul Allen, head of Vulcan investment house and co-founder, with Bill Gates (see above) of the Microsoft empire.
72. Eddie Lampert, money manager for major figures in the global elite; member of the secret Skull & Bones fraternity atYale.
73. Leon Black, major investor with controlling influence at Telemundo, Spanish-language broadcasting, Harrah’s casino empire, and Realogy, which controls real-estate companies such as Coldwell Banker and Century 21.
74. Jann Wenner, owner of Rolling Stone magazine
75. Eric Fellner and Tim Bevan Working Title Films, London

WHO HAS THE EAR 4-4

76. JerryWeintraub, Hollywood producer.
77. Donatella Versace, fashion empire head.
78. Thomas L. Friedman, New York Times columnist.
79. Tim Russert, NBC news commentator.
80. Charlie Rose, PBS television news commentator and talk show host.
81. Joel Silver, Hollywood film producer.
82. Frank Rich, NewYork Times commentator/ author
83. Jonathan Ive, designer of the iPod, iMac and Iphone.

84. Larry Gagosian, owner of art galleries in New York, London and Los Angeles, closely associated with Zionist billionaires such as David Geffen and S. I. Newhouse Jr., etc.
85. Charles Saatchi, owner of the famed Saatchi Gallery and longtime major figure in the public relations industry.
86. Jean Pigozzi, art collector and close associate of the Rothschild family.
87. Stephen Colbert, television-based political satirist/host.
88. Bill O’Reilly, Fox television conservative talk show host.
89. Jon Stewart, TV personality and pundit.
90. Steve Bing, film producer.
91. Eli Broad, billionaire investor and patron of Zionist causes.
92. Michael Milken, Wall Street predator, ex-convict, and devoted supporter of Israel.
93. Arthur Sulzberger Jr., owner of the NewYork Times media empire.
94. Ron Burkle, supermarket and media magnate (including Motor Trend and Soap Opera Digest).
95. Scott Rudin, Hollywood producer
96. Jimmy Buffett, singer and musician, branching into investments.
97. Steven Rattner, private equity and hedge fund investor, former reporter for The NewYork Times.
98. Arianna Huffington, writer and television personality.
99. Doug Morris, runs Universal Music for its owners, the Zionist Bronfman family and its wide-ranging empire.
100. Jimmy Iovine, head of Interscope Records and closely associated with aforementioned Zionist music tycoon David Geffen. #

But before we go any further here, I will once again state that the problem is NOT the Jewish, it is the Zionist political and religious leaders bent on world control who largely view themselves as God’s chosen people and the rest of us as mere “cattle”.

Any group which believes itself destined to rule the world and aggressively pursues that imagined destiny is an obvious menace to the rest of the world, and that includes the radical Muslims (as opposed to all Muslims), the American capitalist elite who view the world as theirs to plunder (as opposed to all Americans), the Chinese leaders intent on dominating the world, and yes, the Zionists.

http://www.forbes.com/2001/06/27/wealthy_print.html

http://researchris.blogspot.com/2008/06/bilderberg-goon-with-gun.html

http://www.realzionistnews.com/?p=218

http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/chris/2006/01/18/the_bilderbergers_masters_of_our_destiny.htm

http://www.schnews.org.uk/archive/news125.htm

http://watch.pair.com/charter9.html

http://noworldsystem.com/2008/06/07/obama-hillary-may-have-attended-bilderberg/

http://www.namebase.org/books16.html
http://sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=C._Boyden_Gray

http://www.newshounds.us/2008/06/10/from_oreillys_perspective_theres_only_left_and_far_left.php

http://www.muckety.com/Query?SearchResult=1581&SearchResult=55&graph=MucketyMap?_r=2D

So what are we to do –Just set around and let them play us like a fiddle?
Better yet——let us all get involved in taking our Country back while we still have a Constitution that empowers us to do so.

We The Peoples Advocates WTPA are providing the only HOPE in saving our great nation.  So JOIN IN and ENLIST to serve with your VOICES being heard and your VOTES being counted and moved along to our lobby group in Washington DC to power push the peoples needs, wants and wishes in our cities, states and Federal Governments for all Americans to have the rights to life in all ways in equity adjudicated by the Bar of Justice.
Info contact Dwight Baker .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

THURSDAY   821 PM/CST DFW

Those like Robert Morganthau and David Rockefeller are typical of the board of directers who decide what will happen in both the U.S. Congress and The White House. Anyone who thinks otherwise are much like children who still believe in Santa Claus. It is all an illusion and Americans are coming to realize their plight. We just do not know what we can do, if anything at all.

It is much like a trapped animal. The first realization of being trapped, the animal fights to break free. Eventually, it will lie down quietly and until it dies or the trapper comes to collect his victim.

re: Max Shields

Yes Max “The Grand Illusion” seems destined to go on forever here in the U.S. because “pretending that you are not pretending” has been refined to the point of a cold blooded art. Take the lies about the bank theft, the military tribunals, the double cross of labor rights, it just goes on and on…
Maybe it will dawn on some folks that politics, and the illusion that You can make a difference, has been revealed as the time wasting diversion that it is. “The old rights of the free American,” as H.L. Mencken once observed, “so carefully laid down by the Bill of Rights, are now worth nothing.”
And now we have a constitutional law professor as President, to say this is not so?

thebeerdoctor,
Yes and we hear it today for H. Clinton regarding the killing of 150 Afghans (mostly civilians and children), how sorry “we are”....

Sorry, let’s start bombing her fuckn’ home and see how SORRY works for her and her tribe. Sorry. Because 3,000 people were killed 9 years ago by Saudis? What the fuck do these people take to sleep at night? Nothing, because they are idealogues that believe that America has been blessed by God to do what ever it deems necessary to ensure democracy is safe throughout the world. Democracy…what a corruption of a principle. Safe…for who? those children who will never see another day, for the limbless civilians lives ripped apart forever?

This is the bullshit we keep going like life only matters when it’s an American life. Otherwise the world is just a piss hole. It’s a racist attitude that pervades the empire, it’s elite and the players that make it tick.

Meanwhile, Biden is kissing AIPAC ass and you can be sure, Israel will get everything they want in military armament from the US and this administration.

Balless Obama just can’t say no to AIPAC, but pisses on workers when they want a shot at unionizing.

Don’t tell me there’s a real difference between bubble head and bird brain.

re: Max Shields

Bringing up the Iraqi embargo, I will always be reminded of how President Clinton washed his hands of the whole atrocity, by simply claiming that Saddam Hussein had more $ billions nine years after the embargo began. Google up: Amy Goodman interviews President Bill Clinton. All those deaths, was a “tough one” said Sec. of State Albright, but was “worth it”.

Folktruther,

It is not a different thing, in my book when 1/2 million children die in Iraq because of the US embargo and the deadly tonage of US bombs. No, that’s as illegal as anything Bush did.

That’s the problem, war crimes began decades ago and continue to this Very Day.

(by the way I didn’t think you were arguing with someone else. Nor was I pointing a figure at you regarding your overall positions. It was a general statement because on this board we know there are those just happy as pigs in shit that Obama is in charge of the continued warmongering rather than the Repub version. But that’s another story).

When children are being killed by US military or through proxy, I don’t equivocate on who’s in the White House. A criminal is a criminal. Dead is dead.

Obama is still waging a war on terror as a continuation of 9/11. 9/11 was an excuse to escalate and move forward with what Clinton, et al already put in place. That Clinton did not do a complete invasion is rather trite. He invade the Balkins for christ’s sake!! How about Somolia? How about Haiti? And as I mentioned he continued to brutalize the Iraqi people.

These,  Folktruther, are murderous crimes. You can bicker all you want about whether Bush took it to a new level. (It’s still at that level. Obama signed off on the Patriot Act…his economic policies are no different than Bush’s).

It’s bull shit differences. Obama’s man Biden went before AIPAC and kissed ass BIG TIME. Where’s the love for the unions? Why is single payer “off the table”? Why why why why.

Nothing Obama has done so far is more than symbolic. He’s got no spine. Never did and won’t. Talking about degrees of difference between him and Bush when looked at closely is like spliting hairs.

It sounds good to say, “he’s going to close Gitmo” or “he’s ending the war in Iraq” when in fact his mission is identical to Bush.

Again 9/11 was a pretext, and Obama is on the same page with Bush. Listen to him and his LONG WAR. Long war against who? for what?

No, Max, Foggy, I am not arguing that the Dems are Gops are essentially different.  We all agree that they are funded and media’d and managed by the agents of the same ruling class or Elite. 

I am arguing that an historical event occurred in 9/11 which caused a historical discontinuity between what happened previously and the following War on Terrorism.  The historical event that occurred is that the American people’s Constitutional rights were aborted because we were now in an endless War.

It is a very different thing for Clinton to pass a resolutuion calling for the removal of Saddam, and for Bush to invade Iraq.  One of the major reasons why Clinton was impeached on the absurd charges was because he would not engage in a military compaign that the right wanted because of the power vacuum that occrued due to the Soviet counterrevolution.

Clinton therefore was not similar to Bush, in the sense that he would initiate a War.  Obama is.  Obama is closer to Bush than he is to Clinton, since that is what the ruling class put him in power for, to rehabilitate Bush’s policies, as Ahmed put it.

I am not arguing that there is a fundamental difference in the parties.  There is a fundamental political differnce in Bush-Obama on one hand, and Clinton on the other. 

And this political differnce occurse largely because of the enormous social inequality that occurred because of globalization in the past decades, where there is, indeed, continuity between Reagan, clinton, etc.

THURSDAY     342 PM/CST   DFW

When enough people realy understand what we really have clear continuity, certainly, through Clinton, Bush, Obama. They have succeeded in handing off the baton moving right through a global economic meltdown, another great bubble. The sheeple have been properly fleeced and now the ruling elite prepare to use their huge stores of money to begin investing in a world of real property, discounted to rock bottom. While those naive and disoriented sheeple bleet their complaints, the all-knowing investment banksters hover above looking for easy pickings. Wow, so this is how the big boys play the game, eh? As I surveyed the crowd at WalMart last weekend, I wondered if anyone pushing their basket of milk, bread and potatos even had a clue. Well, I told them nothing, just like the oligarchial mainstream media does. That way, they can fool all of the people all of the time. Sweeeeeet!

THURSDAY   324 PM/CST DFW

I have seen this “continuity pattern” with clinton, bush and obama. by the time of the final stage of a presidential election the contenders have been carefully vetted and sworn their alliegnece to the ruling elite behind the curtain. after you internalize this reality, you then can begin to calculate and project where they are really going. Even if you find yourself shanhied on this mysterious ship of state, it might be a little comforting to have some small sense of reality and able to filter the manipulative announcements and mainstream medias propaganda.

THURSDAY   303 PM/CST   DFW

REF: MAX SHIELDS PERFECTLY DEFINES THE REALITY

I repeat his words:

This is not going to change because the man in the White House is “different”. You DON’T become the man in the White House if you are DIFFERENT.

________

HOW IN THE NAME OF BEELZEBOB CAN ANYONE FAIL TO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS HOW OUR SYSTEM WORKS!!!!

Underline that succient observation with Rahm Emanuel’s revealing quip, “Never let a good crisis go to waste!” 

Between the most excellent posts of Max Shields and Seattle, I am getting a smidgen of hope some more people are not drinking the kool aid. Because I often feel that I am living in a Kurt Vonegutt novel or movie, sometimes. With our corrupt mainstream media is is often difficult to get your feet on solid ground. The deceit and propaganda just overwhelms me, some days. Even George Orwell understood this matter of propaganda far ahead of this time. Still, most people cannot imagine the vital role of this powerful influence.

Folktruther,
The continuity is crystal clear. Do you know who signed and with bi-partisan approval the resolution to oust the Saddam regime in the 1990s?  Bill Clinton and the Dems!!

Not to see this continuity is to continue to follow blindly what Americans (particularly liberals who frankly find nothing wrong with a little war, even if it means civilians and children are killed just as long as it’s adroit.).

Hawks are not conservative per se. So, when some here and elsewhere consider themselves progressives or liberable that doesn’t mean their for peace and an end to the American Empire, they just want to brand it with a softer touch.

When some of us argue with the Obamaites, we think we’re just having a minor disgreement and that Obama will show his “true progressive colors”, but the issue is deeper. The American culture is built on empire - there’s the Repub version and the Dem version, but he mission is IDENTICAL.

The trajectory is the same, name an issue. The difference between Repubs and Dems in action, as they vote, is mere theatrical quibbling.

The war on terror did NOT begin with G.W. Bush. God man, where were you during the 90s (and before)?

Msx, I would disagree that there is continuity between Obama, Bush, Clinton, etc.  There is discontinuity between Bush 2 and Clinton.  Under the impetus of 9/11, the Bushites conducted a political counter revolution that opratively stripped the American people of their Constitutional rights under the enternal War on Terrorism.  There IS continuity between Obama and Bush 2, in the sense that Obama is continuing this War while pretending to abolish it and changing the political style to appeal to Dems and Moderates while maintaining Bush policies.

The historical problem at the present time is not intellectual ignorance-not knowing- but political denial-not wanting to know.  The American people do not want to know that they have no Constituiontal rights anymore.  We are systematically being spyed, on, we can be declared unlawful combatants at a whim, we can be abducted, imprisoned, disappeared and murdered, and there is nothing we can do about it legally.  There is no operative American law anymore for the general person, only administrative power for the powerful. 

The endless War on Terrorism applies to Americans.  If gitmo inmates can be tried by rigged courts, so can Americans.  If the power structure wants to prevent you from flying they just add you to alist.  If they want to loot the treasury, they do so.
They are no longer bound by traditional restrictions.

Clinton was a corrupt minion of the ruling class, but there was a qualitative political change between him and Bush 2, and I am not referring to a simple change of party.  It was the same change that occurred when the Roman republic became an Empire, with an Emperor as a military dictator.  The Roman Senate and all the officals remained the same, but real power shifted to the executive.

And Obama, who campaigned on Hope n Change, continues instead the Bushite political counter revolution.  And Obama cheerleaders like Purplegirl will waive their pompoms for whatever he does.  But it is crucial that we get the population to understand that an enormous political transformation has occurred, and the prisons and concentration camps have already been built in the US to maintain it.  And they will be used unless the population is mobilized against them.

The problem is that Obama’s “promises” weren’t ever spelled out so he didn’t lie, he just didn’t state all the facts. A deception by omission. This is what we get with a closed, two party only system, it breeds intermarriage and corruption in gov’t and a concentration of power. The Dominionists are going whole hog in our military on every level to make sure it is Holy Christian Warriors not a mixed group that believes in the Bible over the Constitution/Bill of Rights or theocracy over democracy. It is still strong. Today’s Democracy Now had it as one of the main subjects. (5/6/09)

Just imagine replacing the swastika with a smiley face or the hammer and sickle with a “Hello Kitty” make what it represents any better? No so why do you think that a bright, young face and pleasant family will be any different in the nitty gritty? When he comes from the same cabal in the first place?

Don’t worry JackPineSavage the revolving door of the 2-party (only) system will churn out two choices for you to make even if it isn’t a real choice at all. Just like the last few “elections” where our “choices” were made for us long before anyone was presented to us as the only “viable” ones.

PurpleGirl, only the extreme right wing, that owns most of the airwaves says that extreme leftists (who are you/they speaking of) “hate the USA?” How is a date in a kangaroo court any better?

tomack—what the hell happened to “holding his feet to the fire”?? “We have to push him to do the right thing”?? Wait until its all over??

We have done that and done that.

tomack,

You obviously missed my point - HE’s “SCREWED THE POOCH”.

What you seem to be missing is the fact, well documented, that each of these presidents are an extention of a power elite and American ideology that they swore to uphold before they took office and have repeated ever since.

This is not going to change because the man in the White House is “different”. You DON’T become the man in the White House if you are DIFFERENT. It’s just that simple, tomack. There’s nothing to wait for. We can see what else he does not protect the empire as he continues the Dem version of theatrics.

But what’s the point. Gitmo will not be shut down. He won’t fight to get the money to shut it down, just like he hasn’t lifted a finger to fight for workers’ rights, etc. He says things and and even moves little gestures but he is an imperialist leader. His obligation is to continue down the path set before him, CONTINUITY. Remember, or are just waiting for him to turn into something/one else?

What are you waiting for? He’s shown you his hand. That’s what’s in it. Aint got nothing else. He’ll play it till his term is over and if he’s minded his ps and qs he may get elected again. But so what? We still got the empire.

Unless you understand that you have no sense of history.

KDelphi, with Obama it’s drip drip. Say this, let your justice dept do the opposite (to the right). Say that, let the Congress (you know the Dem congress) take it down (and you/Obama don’t raise a hand; with all that “political capital” which will fade fast, he never uses it. Why? Because he knows it aint real. You do what you’re elected to do (I don’t mean what the “people” elected you to do, but what the power elite positioned you to do) or your washed up, fast.)

I size up Obama (as I did from day one) as a conformist, who searches out power, figures out what the rules are and OBEYS.

Maxy boy, I never kid myself, and I always pay attention (and I never judge others not to until I know for sure—and you do not). You don’t need to “school” me on world history, and how the U.S. is only the most recent holder of the championship title when it comes to screwing over the world—and our own people—for its own gain. Need I school you on all the previous title holders?

What I meant here is: wait. At least wait until it is all said and done. Then, if O screws the pooch and doesn’t offer a good enough reason, by all means jump all over him. But at least give the benefit of the doubt until the case is wrapped up. 

Because if you think this is done, you are kidding yourself. HOPEfully he’ll do the right thing.

WHY (loyal Dems), PLEASE tell me why Dems joined in GOP efforts to deny the funding ($81 million) to close GITMO?? There MAY be a perfectly good reason, but, if there is , I dont see it…

They voted to name these people as “enemy combatants” in the first place!! If they hadnt, we would not be in this part of the horror show, as far as I can tell! These people would be POWs or civilians CHARGED with “crimes” , instead of many being there by virtue of their neighbor not liking them and being broke during an invasion…

RAE—NOw this is truly sad..“I don’t know how anyone could withstand the corporate powerhouses that really run things in this world… I give Obama high points for trying… but I fear he’s going to cave. Yes, I’ll blame him for failing to live up to his promises even while I’m amazed he’s been “allowed” to try this long.”

C’mon, man…

Max Shields—Last week, I had a few people really jump my ass about Pres. Obama, saying,. ” 1)“he closed GITMO”.!2) “we’re leaving Iraq!” 3)“He gave you $250! What do you want!!”

Well, I said, 1) we’ll see when it happens. 2) ditto and 3) keep it and put all that money towards a single payer health care plan (NOT “insurance”!)

tomack,

Holding out “hope” is exactly the game plan. If you track US recent history over the last 60 or so years in particular and look closely at the trajectory, you can peel off the Obama “happy face” to see Bush and behind that layer is Clinton, then Bush Senior and then Reagan. The trajectory is seamless. Even the faux differences are the same: political theater to keep “hope alive” while the policies remain the same.

The things to pay attention to is how Obama’s (and his precessors) maintain an entrenched view of America’s mission in the world. This is more important that style, eloquence, charm, and soft/hard power talk. The mission is the same and the use of military force (collateral damage and all) is clearly more than on the table: it’s being used to the full extent. It is a lawless use of force predicated on the ideological imperative that America is to lead the world, and make it safe for democracy.

This is Obama talk as it was all president’s in my life time.

Stop kidding yourself and pay attention. A little Gitmo closure and ooops not so fast. A little we don’t torcher, and ooops not so fast. And rendition is over, oooops not so fast. And on and on it goes.

Obama knows (and is better at) stringing along the sorry liberals who help put him in while he does EVERYTHING that his predecessor did. In fact, George W. Bush (while his implementation lacked finesse) was simply taking the baton from HIS predecessors.

Nothing new, nothing changed.

For your information foggy, I spent months volunteering for the Obama campaign in my local community. While most people didn’t get involved til the fall, I was out knocking on doors at the beginning of summer. Every weekend I went canvassing. I did data entry at the local Obama office. While I couldn’t donate money, I donated something much more valuable my Time. Yes I did vote for Obama, you are a moron foggy.

Obama is morphing from “Bush-lite” to just plain old Bush.

Seems to be WAY too much finality to most of these comments, including Mr. Cohen’s. This isn’t over yet, and could still play out to differnet ends. A military court can still be very influenced by the ruling administration.

On the surface I don’t like this either, but it’s not over til it’s over.

Apologies, my mac has a ‘double click’ feature that gave the two posts.

I lost the person-by-person responses, over the limit (cliff in this case).

{{Purple Girl, May 6 at 10:02 am}} writes well, and I observe that she can type fast, fine, so I’ll try this, however this reduces the full response to the bloggers posted.  Ok.

With respect to each post, that is a presumption of true “innocence”, and my inability to spell often, let the good news roll.

TO: ardee, May 6 at 8:12 am and RAE, May 6 at 8:06 am

In previewing my composition, over 4K bytes, and your two blogs are relevant, so ideas of independence and third party, good!

Social Networking means to me an array of things, products and educations, “labor”, “bean counting”, expressing how feelings to count.

Do I expect brutality to stop, for Wars to stop?  Yes, but not instantly, as would nuclear wars may cause by reducing both are lives and health,  so Obama’s energies seem a gift, keeping him be being isolated to the point of tragic errors of any sort may take time, but the path should not be so bumpy as to throw us off the cliff into just what we are trying to avoid.

So slow down?  Yes, but not here.  I’ll post part of my person-by- person responses, but if not possible, chalk it up to global warming dissolving the calcium ocean reefs.  Note that since Calcium is the back bone of life (generic), and it the most compact element, even the 20 Nation Talks could be modeled after 20Ca40’s abstract 5-felt cap, 10-felt ring, 5-felt bottom, and handicapping the smaller populations to give proportional powers to nations, a contrast to the present money driven organization that is only proportional to wealth.

That is we need to re-examine how money dominates giving some individuals disproportionate powers.
______________________________
[to be continued]

TO: ardee, May 6 at 8:12 am and RAE, May 6 at 8:06 am

In previewing my composition, over 4K bytes, and your two blogs are relevant, so ideas of independence and third party, good!

Social Networking means to me an array of things, products and educations, “labor”, “bean counting”, expressing how feelings do count.

Do I expect brutality to stop, for Wars to stop?  Yes, but not instantly, as would nuclear wars may cause by reducing both are lives and health,  so Obama’s energies seem a gift, keeping him be being isolated to the point of tragic errors of any sort may take time, but the path should not be so bumpy as to throw us off the cliff into just what we are trying to avoid.

So slow down?  Yes, but not here.  I’ll post part of my person-by- person responses, but if not possible, chalk it up to global warming dissolving the calcium ocean reefs.  Note that since Calcium is the back bone of life (generic), and it the most compact element, even the 20 Nation Talks could be modeled after 20Ca40’s abstract 5-felt cap, 10-felt ring, 5-felt bottom, and handicapping the smaller populations to give proportional powers to nations, a contrast to the present money driven organization that is only proportional to wealth.

That is we need to re-examine how money dominates giving some individuals disproportionate powers.
______________________________
[to be continued]

A ‘Day in Court’ is better tahan NO day in Court.As you so rightly pointed out Obama merely suspended the commission until it’s processes could be reviewed. Just because it is a military court does not mean it is necessarily a Kangaroo court.
I woul dmuch rather see these people have the opprotunity to present their defense than linger any longer in limbo. Further the is the very real possiblity these detainees were actually guilty of conspiracy to committ crimes against the US. Nothing pisses me off than Killers Like OJ getting off on a Technicality- so why should the yet to be proven ascertion that Torture was employed on them in particular, let these potential enemies get off scott Free?
As for those who have been unjustly held and mistreated or tortured-  I am all for reparations.I fthey were swept up and held without good reason, they not only suffered illegal imprisonment, but also lost the ability to earn a living and support their families- we owe them so consideration and open exoneration.
I reject the claim that all these detainees are guilty of terrorism, but I also reject the presumption that they are all innocent too.Let’s hear these cases, allow the Public to view them with full disclosure.
The Far Left is as blinded by their own fanatical doctrine as the Far Right. Believe it or not Fringe Lefties- some people hate US and are out to get US.the problem with these two ends of th econtinum is that both only see the world through their own Black or White dogmas. Theres a lot of Gray shit that reacting to only black or white will not only miss, but could be detrimental in the long run.It’s just as shortsighted to say all these people deserve to be releasd no questions asked as it was to round them up, no questions asked.‘Release First and ask questions later’ is as stupid and ill fated as ‘Arrest first and ask questions later’.
And although we have the Right to judge these possible enemies of our country in our courts- It is not our right to Try those who perpetruated war crimes in our Courts. The Bushies et al must stand trial in the international court or in the countries who’s citizens they committed high crimes against. The international Red cross deemed their actions ‘Torture’ that relegates the prosecution of those crimes in the international realm.
We will try those detainees with in the confines of our legal system and the Global community can try the Bushies within the scope of theirs.

jackpine posted:

I do not belong to any political party.  I have never voted for a Republican (i did once vote for the WWP rather than voting for Bill Clinton).  I voted for Obama.

What about your political loyalties?

ardee responds:
What about them?

jack….
Clearly the Democratic Party is in favor of this, just as clearly as they did nothing to stop the original act when it was written by the Bush administration.

ardee:
Clearly you have an inflated opinion of your abilities of divination, just as when you posted:
“But see, now those commissions are good and wholesome because they are a Democratic decision…”

Perhaps the democratic party is in favor of this ruling, but I will await the news that they are rather than accepting you as an authority on this subject. Further you hint at a widespread acceptance of such among democrats and bloggers, an opinion you seem to manufacture out of whole cloth.

jack:
And just as clearly as that, it doesn’t matter what progressive web sites say or how the people who voted for Obama feel, does it?

ardee:
Then what, I wonder, is your purpose here if there is , as you postulate, no hope for a change of direction? My main problem with you Jack, aside from your apparent godlike ability to know all things, is that you offer nothing in the way of solution. We, all of us,come here with opinion, some of us with possible solutions, some with only questions that need answers. I try to keep an open mind regarding most stuff, and especially try hard to avoid leaping to conclusions that may later embarrass the shit out of me.

I did post , prior to this, my extreme displeasure with this decision, and my puzzlement as to its reasons. But, unlike you, I refrained from posting conjecture wrapped up as fact.

Back to my politics…..I am an independent voter, registered as a Green because they need the numbers. I believe that third party politics is a necessary and missing ingredient in a system gone rancid with corruption and greed. Further I think that the addition of socialism into our democratic process with respect to cradle to grave health care, free education for all, and true equality of opportunity is a great idea.

Now you know.

I sure hope the President takes a few moments out of his rock-star schedule to read these comments. If he bails on many more of his promises he’s going down, fast. The American people simply are in no mood to tolerate any more bullshitting liars running their affiars.

I’m sure he’s being “visited” on all sides by the “establishment bullies” and “educated” about how things “are done in the real world” (read: You - Obama - have been elected to front for us - you talk and look pretty but it is WE who pull the strings - you do as we say, or you’ll be looking for a job real quick).

I don’t know how anyone could withstand the corporate powerhouses that really run things in this world… I give Obama high points for trying… but I fear he’s going to cave. Yes, I’ll blame him for failing to live up to his promises even while I’m amazed he’s been “allowed” to try this long.

ardee,

I do not belong to any political party.  I have never voted for a Republican (i did once vote for the WWP rather than voting for Bill Clinton).  I voted for Obama.

What about your political loyalties?

Clearly the Democratic Party is in favor of this, just as clearly as they did nothing to stop the original act when it was written by the Bush administration.

And just as clearly as that, it doesn’t matter what progressive web sites say or how the people who voted for Obama feel, does it?

Like i said, i voted for Obama…but that’s not a mistake that i’ll make again.

Conservativeslayer: you’ve been bamboozled. It is hard for the folks who actually bought into Obama enough to work for his election, to now have to face the fact that the newly elected President has quickly metamorphosed into a lying sack of you-know-what, like so many that preceded him.

Jackpine, Do you seek to justify your own blind loyalties to another political entity by insisting that something is true because you say it is?

I fail to see a shred of evidence to support your contention, so , aside from the right wing airwaves, where are your proofs? I see the opposite , at least on this and a number of other progressive sites.

But see, now those commissions are good and wholesome because they are a Democratic decision…

foggyjones…what an appropriate name

I would suggest ,as respectfully as possible considering the tone and tenor of your arrogant and inappropriate post, that nothing, not the economy, not the looting of our treasury,not the absurdly titled “War on Terror” not any of the progressive agenda items you angrily type, takes precedence over the restoration of the rule of law.

How you appear to make such an ass of yourself in such a short little post like that one is truly astounding. How you can state, with absolute certainty, who a fellow poster cast his/her ballot for sort of negates your value to these proceedings.

As to the article in question and my opinion of this rancid decision by our President, well, there have been good decisions and bad ones and this particular one is pretty bad, really, really a poor action by a constitutional lawyer. I just haven’t a clue as to his motives or methods.

The military Commissions Act was horrible when it was originally passed and it still is.
There was a detailed analysis done back in 2006 which still pertains today.
http://www.discourse.net/archives/2006/09/text_of_the_law_professors_letter_against_the_bushmccain_torture_bill.html

The rules put forth strip away the rights of accused, basically setting aside all progress made toward a rule of law that we have traversed since the writing of Magna Carta in 1208.

Obama is continuing to lead the country down the path entered by G. W. Bush.

TUESDAY   643 PM/CST   DFW

Right, you voted for Obama but now you have seen the light. Gimme a break, you never voted for Obama. But you guys just growl and hang on to the same old dry bones. If it wasn’t Gitmo or abortion, it would be about spending another trillion fighting those hoardes of terrorists invading the USA. Wake up and smell the coffee, dude, nobody is interested in that old Moral Majority rhetoric. Jobs, wrecked 401Ks, unpredictable gas and energy prices looming ahead, wrecked stock market, awesome bailouts and, my God!, you think anybody gives a flying Fk about Gitmo?

That is absurd and you are just wasting good blogging space.

As someone that worked hard to get Obama elected, I feel absolutely betrayed. I took that man at his word, he would restore the rule of law and reinstate the constitution. Man do I feel duped. He has continued in the footsteps of every assault on our rights started by Bush. Sec. of Defense Robert Gates said a few days ago that around 100 of the detainees at Gitmo can’t be charged or released. That’s not America. America doens’t hold people without trial or charge. That’s what the fascists and communists countries did. Something we beemed with pride to the rest of the world, that we did not do. One little terrorist attack, and we throw everything we believed out the window. Now Obama had the choice to restore the Constitution or follow in Bush’s footsteps. Obama the “Constitutional” lawyer choose to follow Bush. You better hope we don’t get attacked again, because whatever limited rights we still have in this country are going to be gone. You can thank Obama for that.