ardee:

Babble on.

foggyjones, May 17 at 9:35 pm #

REF: Ardee

Lay on the whip, Ardee, lash her roundly!
.......

What I do is defend truth, what I do is rebel against stupid partisanship that closes minds.

What you do is a freaking mystery.

REF: Ardee

Lay on the whip, Ardee, lash her roundly!

MarthaA, May 17 at 10:59 am #

ardee:

Your supposed information is right-wing propaganda.

.......................

I know I said I would refuse to converse further with one whose head is firmly up her rectum. But you are really an absurd piece of work you know. You know absolutely nothing about this issue yet moralize, seermonize and make ridiculous accusations.

Stop embarrassing yourself, stop wasting this forum’s time on your own radical belief system, one that operates with no need to fact check. Every damn bit of information I gave you about Dean’s terms in the Vermont statehouse is proven fact, not propaganda simply because it conflicts with your stupidly misinformed partisan political views. I took the trouble to actually post a proof of my statements, which you probably failed to read in its entirety because you didnt like the road it took.

Use a damn search engine and spend one half hour checking the facts and stop posting like a retarded half wit. Truth is what it is, not what you wish it was.

ardee:

Your supposed information is right-wing propaganda.

“... his[Gov. Howard Dean, M.D.]fifty state strategy while heading the Democratic Party was successful. Which begs the question as to why he and that strategy was immediately attacked by the right wing of his party, principally Chuck Schumer and Rham Emmanuel.”

Gov. Dean was successful and NO conservative would have done what Gov. Dean did, because for a conservative what Gov. Dean did, wasn’t necessary; it was only necessary in order to have democracy with a liberal vote.

The reason of the conservative attack that overtook Gov. Dean’s program is because the political right within the Democratic Party is many who are posing as the political left that gained control as Dean went out of the party, because too many people are like you.  Chuck Schumer and Rham Emmanuel are both members of the DLC NEW CLASS CONSERVATIVE Republicans-Lite; are you trying to convince people these conservatives are liberals? NOT, that’s hilarious as they are NEW DEMOCRATS, the politically conservative DLC NEW CLASS that has divided the liberal Democratic Party in opposition to Governor Dean.  The DLC NEW CLASS effectively got in front of Governor Dean’s hard liberal work for the majority population, which is sad.

ardee:

Your supposed information is right-wing propaganda.

“... his[Gov. Howard Dean, M.D.]fifty state strategy while heading the Democratic Party was successful. Which begs the question as to why he and that strategy was immediately attacked by the right wing of his party, principally Chuck Schumer and Rham Emmanuel.”

Gov. Dean was successful and NO conservative would have done what Gov. Dean did, because for a conservative what Gov. Dean did, wasn’t necessary; it was only necessary in order to have democracy with a liberal vote.

The reason of the conservative attack that overtook Gov. Dean’s program is because the political right within the Democratic Party is many who are posing as the political left that gained control as Dean went out of the party, because too many people are like you.  Chuck Schumer and Rham Emmanuel are both members of the DLC NEW CLASS CONSERVATIVE Republicans-Lite; are you trying to convince people these conservatives are liberals? NOT, that’s hilarious as they are NEW DEMOCRATS, the politically conservative DLC NEW CLASS that has divided the liberal Democratic Party in opposition to Governor Dean.  The DLC NEW CLASS effectively got in front of Governor Dean’s hard liberal work for democracy for the majority population, which is sad.

My last response to you, Martha, as you have not an honest bone in your body.

I predicted you would obfuscate the meaning of the article I pasted, and you have not disappointed me, though you let both your nation and honest debate down.

The gist of that article is a paeon of praise for Dean’s retention of Republicans in Vermonts govt.,and of his working hand in glove with them while bickering with the Democrats and working towards opposing goals.

This subject was a continual one during Dean’s abortive race for the Democratic nomination , especially among progressives and leftists who began to desert his campaign prior to that unfortunate screech that (unfairly in fact) doomed his campaign.

That article is only one of many such pointing out this flaw in Dean’s image as a ‘liberal democrat’. and, should you actually
seek knowledge instead of simply staying stridently true to your incorrect belief system you can readily find them.

Further, while there is little doubt that Dean is a phony liberal, adopting that position only to gain the nomination, his fifty state strategy while heading the Democratic Party was successful. Which begs the question as to why he and that strategy was immediately attacked by the right wing of his party, principally Chuck Schumer and Rham Emmanuel.

They both badmouthed that as a failure and claimed the Democrats move to the right was the reason they won that election. Of course you wont give any time or credence to this fact of democratic betrayal of progressive principles and values as you put your loyalties above truth and sanity.

So sorry for you but I cannot waste any more time on a poster proven to be so unprincipled.

ardee:

1) ‘“He [Dean] stood right up to the Democratic liberals right away…  He was never part of the tax and spend liberal Democratic wing, ever.”’ [Conservative Republicans-Lite are the “tax and spend” liberals that have infiltrated the Democratic Party, that can morph into conservatives or moderates whenever they choose.  Liberal means you are for democracy, and has nothing to do with tax and spend, that is right-wing propaganda.]

2) ‘Dean’s intelligence and his moderate, middle-of-the-road outlook and his fiscal conservatism have thus been apparent from his first days as governor.’  [Fiscal conservatism and political conservatism are nothing at all the same.  Fiscal conservatism is simply being frugal, which you have apparently misunderstood to be political conservatism which favors government controlled by aristocracy; the autocratic political right is a minority faction of high income, wealthy constituents of the body politic favoring aristocratic control of government consisting of the Liberal Right, the Moderate Right and the Conservative Right; e.g., Right Wing, aristocracy.]

3)  ‘Dean exhibits an almost reflexive tendency to dismiss extremes and hew to the middle of the road.’ [Plainly Gov. Dean is not an extremist.]

4)  ‘Tony Gierzynski, associate professor of political science at the University of Vermont, says of Dean that, “He’s not been a typical Democrat…he has a number of times gone against what his party’s wanted to do.”  “He’s not afraid to battle with his own side as well as the other side,” Gierzynski said.’ [Gov. Dean isn’t afraid to battle with the Republicans-Lite on the Left that have infested the Democratic Party from the Right.]

5)  ‘Brian Vachon, vice president of communications at National Life Insurance Company, says, “What I like about him enormously is that he absolutely goes with his gut instincts all the time…he kind of does what he thinks makes sense less from an ideological point of view than just from personal instincts.”  Lee Light, a Progressive, who together with her husband Bob runs the Hollister Hill Farm in Marshfield, puts it concisely: “Howard Dean’s a real middle of the road kind of guy.” ’ [Republican ideology is what got our country in the mess it is in, therefore Gov. Dean governing moderately and not governing ideologically is an asset.]

*********************************************
The above 5 excerpts are the gist of your posts and if the above 5 excerpts are meant to demean Governor Dean as a Democrat, it shows an enormously humongous lack of political understanding on your part, as none of these excerpts do anything but praise Governor Dean for his wonderful character and judgment.  I have made a notation relative to each at the end in brackets.  Also, here is list of useful political definitions that you may be interested in learning:
http://www.standupforliberalsintheusa.blogspot.com/

And, have you checked out the site Governor Dean originated, Democracy For America? Here’s the url

http://www.democracyforamerica.com/

MarthaA, May 16 at 8:35 pm #

Please, Martha, I really need to know, how do you manage to post with your head so firmly ......? Can you honestly expect to earn points with a refusal to use a simple search engine ? Do you really think you come out smelling like a rose here?

Here is the next step..I post one of the mildest narratives of Dean’s past and you then further prove my negative assessment of your worth here at this forum by refuting it.
.......
Cornelius “Con” Hogan, Snelling’s Secretary of the Agency of Human Services, recalls his meeting with Dean.  Accompanied by Peter Profera, director of administration services for the Agency, Hogan laid out what was happening in Human Services.  “After it was over, after that 45 minutes was done and the governor listened patiently and seemed to absorb everything, I asked Mr. Profera, either one of two things happened.  Either the governor didn’t understand a word I said or he understood everything I said.  And Pete said he understood every word.  And that was the beginning of a long relationship that we had.  It was a tough time.”

Despite the partisan difference Dean kept Snelling’s team in place.  Hogan continued to serve as Secretary of the Human Services for another eight-plus years.  Dean also carried through on the austerity program that Snelling and Speaker Ralph Wright had brokered to address the state’s $65 million budget deficit.  Veteran Vermont journalist Peter Freyne says that, “He [Dean] stood right up to the Democratic liberals right away…  He was never part of the tax and spend liberal Democratic wing, ever.”

Dean’s intelligence and his moderate, middle-of-the-road outlook and his fiscal conservatism have thus been apparent from his first days as governor. 
edit…...

Avoiding Extremes
Dean exhibits an almost reflexive tendency to dismiss extremes and hew to the middle of the road.  Although his time at Yale coincided with the tumult of the late 1960s and early 1970s, Dean generally avoided political causes.  He observes, “I had some sort of deep-seated suspicion of extremes on both sides.  I mean I couldn’t stand Dick Nixon of course, but I really didn’t trust the leadership of the left either.”  That attitude has continued to the present.  Tony Gierzynski, associate professor of political science at the University of Vermont, says of Dean that, “He’s not been a typical Democrat…he has a number of times gone against what his party’s wanted to do.”  “He’s not afraid to battle with his own side as well as the other side,” Gierzynski said.  Brian Vachon, vice president of communications at National Life Insurance Company, says, “What I like about him enormously is that he absolutely goes with his gut instincts all the time…he kind of does what he thinks makes sense less from an ideological point of view than just from personal instincts.”  Lee Light, a Progressive, who together with her husband Bob runs the Hollister Hill Farm in Marshfield, puts it concisely: “Howard Dean’s a real middle of the road kind of guy.”

http://www.nelsonideas.com/howard-dean/democrat-controversial-speech.html

ardee:

Wiggle and squirm all you want, you still haven’t got the guts to say anything detrimental about Governor Dean other than allude that there is something to look up.  There is nothing out there to find, other than RIGHT-WING/DLC CONSERVATIVE PROPAGANDA.  Propaganda is simple to detect when you know what it is, and propaganda is all you have to say.

MarthaA, May 14 at 10:40 am #

ardee:

Your faulting of Gov. Dean for his ability to take advantage of a situation that became available at the time only shows your contempt for what Gov. Dean has accomplished to the benefit of the political left, which proves you are a CONSERVATIVE RIGHT-WING REPUBLICAN EXTREMIST dissembler.

Telling you that I am aware that you are a CONSERVATIVE RIGHT-WING REPUBLICAN/DLC EXTREMIST dissemination propagandist, isn’t calling you names, it’s what you are.

You haven’t said anything substantive or specific, you have only told me to search, to me you are harping on the “confidence without merit” rhetoric of the CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN RIGHT-WING EXTREMISTS.

....

Wiggle and squirm all you like, Martha, the truth is still out there. Despite your absurdity that my criticisms of the career of Howard Dean brands me as a conservative, instead of you as intellectually corrupt in pursuit of your own political agendas, is really, truly stupid and intellectually dishonest.

Do your damn homework and try harder to understand that those who pursue truth are not the enemy, deserving of epithet, or incorrect charges as to their loyalties or agendas.

You are simply being a big baby.

REF: MarthA

I fear that we are all agreed on the single-payer issue, therefore, we are now preaching to the choir.

The issue has been discussed in congress the past couple of weeks and I fear both Obama and the congress has yeild to the lobbyists. But unless the actually rush though the patch-work insurance company and pharm company bill in the middle of the night, it would behoove us to bombarding the congress to think twice! They really must be made to understand the consequences.

Let the hear from ordinary Americans who are not completly brain washed by mainstream media and the drug, pharma etc. corp. lobbyists whom are still driving the votes in the congress. Those like Max Baucus and some Ala., Ga. and Texas congressmen, both parties, must be pushed down on this Health Care bill. They are stirring up the Pelosi side issue and others until they see a clear opening to toss in their game-winning TD. I have watched this happen, again and again, haven’t you?

Better play to stop that TD drive, you or your family’s health might depend on this. That makes it pretty dang important, eh?

Obama not wanting the 70% majority common population to have single-payer health care was certainly a surprise to me, because free health care for all is what our country needs and will help the economy as well as the people of the common population’s health.

But, no matter what Obama does or doesn’t do, the CORPORATE CONSERVATIVE RIGHT-WING REPUBLICANS were terrible and will be worse if we ever let them back in. 

The only way is to vote legislators out that didn’t vote for health care for all in the Democratic Party’s 2010 PRIMARY ELECTIONS. Watch closely and vote all left-wing legislators out that vote to benefit the CORPORATE CONSERVATIVE RIGHT-WING REPUBLICANS of big business, big insurance, big pharmacy, big industry, big bankers and big capitalists private health care, at the expense of the common population that the Democratic Party is suppose to represent, since our nation only has two political parties, one is to represent the left, the people and small business and one is to represent the right, big capitalist elite.

Somewhere in the history of this country human beings split into two disinct groups:  home sapiens and homo annelida.
What we are witnessing is the umpteenth generation of the homo annelida—now in power. 
The children of this split-off tend to dress and act like their parents,  who provided them with such a luxuriant life style: they gave them opportunities to exclusive educations; access to some of the greatest minds that exist in today’s world. Yet all all they have to show for it is the the suits.  In Obama’s case, it is probably J. Press. 
Barack Obama, David Axelrod, Rahm Emanuel—all phoneys.  Frauds, reproductions of their fathers who indeed had questionable backgrounds to offer up to run this country.
In Obama’s case, a Kenyan who deserted his family to pursue a doctorate degree at Harvard University, and Emanuel, the son of an Israeli terrorist.  Axelrod, is rather minor figure publicly, so far, but he is a key element in this wishy-washy promulgation of such a “keep the status quo” mandate, which seems to have been delivered by his friends on Wall Street.
George W. Bush (to the manor born) toured Louisiana and Mississippi in 2004 to find an authentic lawn jockey for his mother, Barbara, (She loves Amreicana.)  She wanted it for their summer home in Kennebunkport, ME.
George the first found only one.  George H. W. resolved the discrepancy by urging his friends to place a lawn jockey in the White House, namely, Barack Obama.  This would please Barbara, but also would save his son.  (Thyroid-rage George reportedly smirked when his friends at the clubhouse laughed.)

Bombs, torture, driving Americans into poverty and despondancy, these are his outcomes. And these are what the Status quo wants.  The Wishy-washy face that Obama juts forward in reaction to the crazy right is one that is a tell-tale sign of capitulation. If this is the guy who the black population supports up to 90 percent, then I can say, without any doubt, that this man is a disgrace to his race.

They are godddamn liars!

—Thom Hartman is still working for the Ford Foundation and is still supporting Obama endelessly, seemingly mindlessly.—

ardee:

Your faulting of Gov. Dean for his ability to take advantage of a situation that became available at the time only shows your contempt for what Gov. Dean has accomplished to the benefit of the political left, which proves you are a CONSERVATIVE RIGHT-WING REPUBLICAN EXTREMIST dissembler.

Telling you that I am aware that you are a CONSERVATIVE RIGHT-WING REPUBLICAN/DLC EXTREMIST dissemination propagandist, isn’t calling you names, it’s what you are.

You haven’t said anything substantive or specific, you have only told me to search, to me you are harping on the “confidence without merit” rhetoric of the CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN RIGHT-WING EXTREMISTS.

Unless your toxic assets are being recapitalized by TARP funds and you are receiving your revenue stream as a result of capital brought back to life by taxpayer money, I can’t see why you would be on this blog pretending a CONSERVATIVE RIGHT-WING REPUBLICAN EXTREMIST agenda is legitimate.  How much does the CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN RIGHT-WING EXTREMISTS pay you?

MarthaA, May 13 at 11:05 am #

ardee:

Governor Howard Dean in the camp of the GOP! What are you smoking?  I follow Gov. Dean closely and since you have made that statement, I would like you to give some verification or admit that you are only spreading disinformation and propaganda.

...

Now Martha, there are more thing tween heaven and earth…..

Howard Dean’s bio is plainly to be found with any reputable search engine, as you well know. As the Lieutenant Governor under a Republican Governor he was in constant battle with his own party in the legislature. When the Governor died in office Dean was elevated to that post and his battles with the Dems continued. He did indeed get along far better with the GOP in his state than he did with his own party.

Dont be lazy now, the truth is out there. Further, annoying facts that do not agree with our belief systems are certainly up to being questioned but one should be motivated to do the research, after all I might post only sneaky stuff to prove my point. Lastly, do not kill the messenger, or insult him either.

ardee:

Governor Howard Dean in the camp of the GOP! What are you smoking?  I follow Gov. Dean closely and since you have made that statement, I would like you to give some verification or admit that you are only spreading disinformation and propaganda.

What we are seeing is George W. Bush’s third term.  In absentia!  He now has all vacation days while the Obama administration and the Senate do his work.

MarthaA, May 12 at 10:27 pm #

You have some great ideals, but no base framework and no way to get the framework you need, and I wish you did, but it just doesn’t exist.

............................

I have spoken to my “base framework” as the creation and raising up of the thrid party movement in this nation.

As to Mr. Dean, directly after the successes of your party in the ‘06 elections, he came under the direct attack of Charles Schumer and Rham Emmanuel who diminished the success of his fifty state strategy and claimed the victory validated the push to the right of your party.
I fail to see how Howard Dean, whose politics in Vermont placed him in opposition to his own party and in the camp of the GOP there, time and again ( you could look it up), can be seen as the guiding light.

We will have to agree to disagree I fear, but, as long as you work for what you believe and I do the same, we may see progress.

Ardee:

Governor Dean, Democracy For America, chooses candidates for the grassroots, also Moveon.org.  Governor Howard Dean would not pick DLC candidates, and he is back at DFA.  Governor Dean is against the conservatives/moderates dividing the party.  I was disappointed when Obama appointed a DLC member as Chairman of the DNC; but the DFA led by Gov. Dean will pick democratic grassroots candidates; its the DLC/NEW CLASS autocrats we need to stay away from. 

I believe Governor Howard Dean is doing his best to get democracy for all the United States, but it won’t happen overnight, it took over 50 years for the Republicans to accomplish their takeover of the Democratic Party for duopoly, and it will take some time for our democratic movement to set aside what the Republicans have done, but we the grassroots Democrats must work within the framework we have until we can change it.

You have some great ideals, but no base framework and no way to get the framework you need, and I wish you did, but it just doesn’t exist.

MarthaA, May 12 at 7:25 pm #

ardee:

I disagree.  The Democratic Party was originally the Democratic Farmer Labor Party and is still the Democratic Farmer Labor Party in Minnesota.

If you will read over what I wrote, surely you can see the error of not reforming the left’s ONE institutional party we have.  The DLC/NEW CLASS has led the party in the wrong direction, NOW voting them all out is the only way.  You seem to think that will be an impossibility, but it is very much possible.
.......

Martha,
I support your right to disagree, but I despair of your apparent failure to see your party for what it is. I would ask if you are active in a local democratic club? If so, and I once was, coming as I do from a family of democrats, then you certainly are familiar with the way the grassroots membership is ignored , excepting of course for every two years when asked for money.

The Democratic Party is owned lock ,stock and tuxedo by the DLC, Billy Clinton made it so in fact. They were charged with the task of reducing the gap in corporate contributions between them and the GOP. They succeeded rather well in fact, and they did it by silencing the Black Caucus, the progressive Caucus and any and all dissent within the party to the party line.

Your words are admirable, dont get me wrong, and it may very well be an important part of the overall effort to change our rotten and greedy system to remain active within your party. But I honestly believe there are other and at least equally important goals , such as the building of a third party pledged to avoid the corporate campaign check that comes with many strings attached.

I would ask you to think about the elections in the light of having two , and only two, candidates chosen for you by those who do not put your own best interests at heart. Before you protest that candidates are chosen in primaries let me put that canard to rest; candidates are chosen in back rooms that reek of cigar smoke and corruption and the vast sums that are necessary to win an election are the real determining factor in a national election. Hell it costs about ten or twenty million to elect a representative from Podunk many millions more if a Senate race is involved. Obama raised seven hundred million to win a job that pays $400,000/yr. Something doesnt add up.

Perhaps you might enumerate how you plan to purge your party, or cleanse it of the corporate toadies that run it, when they dont listen to you or care about you. You say that voting is the way to success yet , as I noted, you do not choose the candidates, General Dynamics, General Electric and General Motors do….

REF: Apparent? The blind men who examined the elephant reached different conclusions. I quote Bo Diddly, “I may look like a farmer but I’m a lover, you just can’t judge a book by its cover.”

I hope all potential, open minded voters will refuse to kow tow to the mindless assumption the Two-Party System. The much ballhooed Two-Party System is a false choice, a mental trap maintained by the despised Mainstream Media. Every broadcaster is threatened with corporate advertising. Anyone of them are at the mercy of advertising and banks. They really have no choice but to comply. Imagine if Larry King on CNN held a wide open discussion on this subject. It will never happen in an honest discussion. They would consider doing it Jerry Springer style, run out some outrageous, loud and disagreeable clowns to falsely represent those caring, intelligent and educated people who oppose the two-party system and offer some real hope and change.

We all know how they confine the national debate to Dems and Reps., both have proven their solutions are simply wrong. Anybody who wants to change this failed government should realize either of these parties have failed. It is a blantant example of a greedy “spoils system” that absolutely be dismissed. We must move on and break free from the the equally corrupt Dems and Reps.

There smiling faces routinely appear on CSPAN, with kindly faces appealing to the voters with homolies and sincere promises. They tell of their touching experiences and spout love for the high school teams and other warm fuzzy stories. The are selling the goods, always selling the goods with whatever it takes, whatever works, just sell the goods.

Some of us know better. Some of us are not distracted by the “warm fuzzies” or the moments when they shake their fists and cry out for bailouts and ignore the details, and ignore exactly where the transfer of wealth is being directed.

Before the presidential election both McCain and Obama flew back to the Capitol join the hue and cry stemming from Paulsen’s cry for TARP, the sky was failing! No time to think, the Titantic is sinking and we have one last prayer to save the ship!

And then ... we have seen that was not accurate and nothing since then has been accurate. Once they got that big lie rolling, they have continued to keep the ball rolling. It stinks but they keep the ball rolling, despite so many unanswered questions. For instance, The Fed cannot explain some $90 trillion that is off the balance sheet. Where are the “toxic assets?”

But this kind of thinking goes on and on, month after month and year after year, Democratic or Republican party.

Is that satisfactory for you? As for me, I find it both insulting and dangerous. No, I cannot believe in this system and, especially, not these arrogant clowns who were given the legal power to change all this on a dime. They just stand before mics, looking into the damn camera’s talking BS. It is very insulting.

Its the system, stupid. Democrats or Republics, false choice. Not worth talking about anymore. Cut them both aloose and move on. As you live and breath, damn it, look at what they are doing? Look at this disasterous circus with all the clowns being broadcast this very moment. Watch all three channels offered by CSPAN, without the spin and commentary. Cut out the middleman, go directly to the scene of the crimes and watch them.

Watching mainstream media is only possible for those with trained and experienced eyes. There are so many ways to slant news nobody could tell you. It is produced and written and directed by creative people who sold their souls, people like Rahm Obama and Karl Rover. They are the offspring of those like Joseph Goebbels of Nazi Germany. There have been many long before any of these, usually priests and rabbis and such who wrote and directed their chosen spokesmen. It is an ancient function in politics and religion.

ardee:

I disagree.  The Democratic Party was originally the Democratic Farmer Labor Party and is still the Democratic Farmer Labor Party in Minnesota.

If you will read over what I wrote, surely you can see the error of not reforming the left’s ONE institutional party we have.  The DLC/NEW CLASS has led the party in the wrong direction, NOW voting them all out is the only way.  You seem to think that will be an impossibility, but it is very much possible.

MarthaA, May 12 at 12:41 pm #

Sorry Martha, but your Democratic Party has voted for the invasion of Iraq, for the pouring of monies to the very thieves that wrecked this economy, never once stood fast on Bush constitutional violations like using the Justice Dept to go after democratic candidates for office, wiretapping US citizens without a warrant etc. They are not MY solution nor are they yours, you just dont know it yet.

No matter how many republicans jump ship, no matter how many the democrats put into the legislature, no matter how large the majority becomes that party will still represent the monied class only, will still be wedded to the corporate campaign check, will still be opposed to any alteration in the system, such as IRV, no matter the efficacy of that needed change, and will still fail to support we the people.

foggiejones:

Apparently you are a REPUBLICAN.

ardee:

I offered a workable path, but you are so against the Democrats, because of NEW CLASS governance that you won’t try to see the path that we have.  The PRIMARIES are our PATH and the only PATH, short of bloody battle.  We have to work within the legal constitutionally legislated Democratic Party that IS.  vOTING IN THE PRIMARIES, if unified in solidarity, is a PLAN that will work.  You are stuck on something else, but nothing else will work.  New people have to know that they are not to join the DLC/NEW CLASS enemy when they are elected, other than with rhetoric.  The same way the Republicans took over the Democratic Party, we can get it back, if we don’t go crawling off like a bowl of worms looking for a better way.  The Republican Party is NOT A CHOICE as the Republican Party has and always will represents the elite/corporate capitalists.

I understand common population Republicans are leaving the Republican Party in droves, and they should come to the Democratic Party, so that together unified in solidarity we can REFORM the Democratic Party, and through the Democratic Party, after the Democratic Party is reformed, will be able to get multi-party’s constitutionally recognized, but only through the Democratic Party which is the source for the Left to use to take over the Democratic Party, as well as get other political parties legal in all states and equal in all ways to the Democratic Party.  We almost got it done with Governor Dean, but everyone was so ignorant about what Governor Dean was doing, that they allowed the DLC/NEW CLASS/Republican-lites to get in front of his work and took it over, but we are still ahead more than we were when the Republican were in power. We can’t allow the Republicans to ever get into power until we have constitutionally legal multi-parties. We must not give up the MOVEMENT to reform the Democratic Party.  Reformation of the Democratic Party is the ONLY WAY, when the Democratic Party is reformed without the DLC/NEW CLASS/Republicans-lite, the reformed party’s legislators will then be able to vote in legislation for a constitutionally legal in all respects multi-party political system. Again, the PLAN is to use the VOTE in the PRIMARIES and take back the Democratic Party from the NEW CLASS DLC conservative/moderate Democrats and REFORM the Democratic Party, which is the only way, please try to understand.

In order to do this you need to forget about all other parties and learn who the DLC NEW CLASS participants are, or there will be no way to vote them out, as they camouflage themselves well; the only way to know who they are is by the vote; if they vote with big corporate business, industry, bankers, insurance, etc. against the common population, VOTE THEM OUT IN THE PRIMARIES.  You will have to watch closely though, because they will not always all vote at the same time if all their votes are not necessary to secure their choice of the vote. 1st of all Pelosi and Reid are the DLC, they need to be voted out and not allowed to cheat the vote.  I know a bunch of them, they are not hard to find, but do not make themselves readily known.

foggyjones, May 12 at 2:52 am #

To thine own self be true…..I think many try to debate with honesty and rationale, sometimes passions overrule those, and you are as guilty as are others.

Tuesday Morning

This site is gradually going down, down down to the usual opinionated liberal vs. conservative bs that is found on mainstream media. that is where i get off, that sux. nobody here cares about except, perhaps, a fer it or agin it!

Attacking those whom you do not agree with just goes downhill. No insights offer, no supporting information, no more than a chatline of highschoolers giving a view on which of the jonas brothers is cutest or what is wrong about paris hilton.

good night, damnit.

MarthaA, May 10 at 9:08 pm #

“The Greens are NOT an institutionalized political party, if a Green gets elected they will sit with the Democrats and take orders from the Democrats.”

*********** This is but an opinion, one that cannot be asserted as fact. You do not know this to be the case yet you posit such an occurance as inevitable.

“We have to realize we, the 70% common population, are a class and culture, unite and demand a political party to represent us.  There’s nothing to talk about with the Greens because the Greens are not on an even playing field with the Democratic Party and the Republican Party.”

*************Illogic I fear, as you offer criticism to those who seek to build a third party yet offer no other workable path to take. No third party is on an even playing field with the Duopoly that rules this nation for the wealthiest. That is why building such a movement should be a priority.

To say that one might reform the Democratic Party is to display a lack of knowledge as to the workings of that party I fear. Have you ever engaged in grassroots community endeavors within that party? If you had you would be quite familiar with the way such organizations are ignored by the State and National until such time as fundraising or get out the vote drives are necessary.

The party machinery is a one way street, no suggestions go from down to up, only a trickle down mechanism is in place. Should a real progressive get elected, and that is a rough task indeed as control of money, speakers and the entire election process resides with a DLC driven corporate obeisance in place, that person would be shunted to obscure committee assignments, and her future as an elected official would be short and fruitless.

The only real hope for a progressive agenda resides with the growth of a party pledged to avoid corporate funding and thus corporate control.

Paul_GA:

That’s exactly what I’m talking about.  It is hopeless trying to run-around the Democratic Party, the DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAS CONTROL and plans on keeping control.  To bring NEW CLASS “toady” CONTROL DOWN, it will have to be done from within the Democratic Party, it can’t be done any other way.

Since there are only two political parties, the Democratic Party is the only political party that should represent the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION. If everyone would give up these other parties and register as Democrats and vote out all the conservative and moderate Republican-Lites, and long time incumbents in the 2010 Primaries, we may have a chance of getting the party turned to represent more than the Republican-Lite NEW Middle Class Singularity, but it would have to be a united effort of the whole 70% majority common population.  As long as the common population is divided into so many branches they just lose their votes, votes that would make a difference in cleaning up and changing the Democratic Party.  We have to change what we have, trying to change what we haven’t got is foolish.

Forget the Republican Party or any RIGHT-WING political party that doesn’t represent the common population; conservative Republican corporate capitalists are perfectly happy with the Republican Party that represents the capital of moneyed autocratic elite corporate capitalists ONLY.

And the ballot-access laws so many states have are designed to keep nearly all but the Repubs and Demos off the ballot, MarthaA. (I think they were originally instituted to keep the Socialists and Communists off the ballot.)

Paul_GA:

“had she been on the Georgia ballot last year, I’d have voted for Cynthia McKinney and the Greens.”
************************************
This is what I mean.  The Green’s aren’t able to keep their candidate on the ballot because they are not an institutionalized Congressionally legislated political party equal with the Republican Party and the Democratic Party, which is what will have to happen for there to be a third political party.  Whenever there is a third political party the seating will be arranged in Congress to accommodate representatives of a third political party, then the 70% majority common population will have their representatives, and there will be two middle isles, not just one. Right now the Democrats are on the left and the Republicans are on the Right, when you see seating made for the Greens in the middle, then you know there is representation for the whole of the nation, as there is three classes and cultures.  I guess you could call the classes and cultures something like this, the 10% Elite Capitalist Billionaires, the 20% Middle Class Millionaires and the 70% Wal-Mart Common Population for an example of the classes and cultures.

Ardee:

Tweedledee and Tweedledum are the ONLY two political parties—- there are NO OTHER INSTITUTIONALIZED POLITICAL PARTIES that have the same legal standing—- all other political parties are eliminated by onerous restrictive laws, whereas it is impossible for them to function on an even playing field by law.  The Greens are NOT an institutionalized political party, if a Green gets elected they will sit with the Democrats and take orders from the Democrats.

We have to realize we, the 70% common population, are a class and culture, unite and demand a political party to represent us.  There’s nothing to talk about with the Greens because the Greens are not on an even playing field with the Democratic Party and the Republican Party. 

If we had an institutionalized multi-party political system, neither the Aristocracy, nor the Middle Class would have enough support to form a government on their own; which would get down to COALITION GOVERNMENT that would have to include the 70% majority common population with a political party to represent the 70% majority common population in order for a government to be formed—- this very thing is why the United States does not have a political party to represent the 70% majority common population, as the Aristocracy and the Middle Class do not want the government to be inclusive of the 70% majority common population, because the Aristocracy and the Middle Class do not want to share the resources of the nation with the 70% majority common population.

Ardee, it might be better, more effective propaganda to refer to the two big parties as “Tweedledumb and Tweedledumber”. But I agree—voters need to begin turning their backs on the Evil and Stupid parties and look into third parties. Though not a dues-paying party member, I’ve voted Libertarian from 2000 onward; and had she been on the Georgia ballot last year, I’d have voted for Cynthia McKinney and the Greens.

MarthaA, May 3 at 11:35 pm #

In the 2010 PRIMARY ELECTIONS next year WE THE PEOPLE need to do some more clean-up work in the Democratic Party, so that the banks don’t own the Senate.  Every Democratic Senator that voted against the mortgage rewrite bill, that Garth noted in his post,will no longer be needed, as their assistance to do the people’s work in U. S. Senate legislation is no longer required; all of them must be pink slipped from the Senate on an extended leave of absence for the rest of their lives by the VOTE. Someone will replace them, but if not, no one would be better than these corporate/banker owned pseudo-representatives secretly selling our nation’s citizenry out to the highest bidder; these EMERGENCY VOTING changes must be made in the Democrats Congressional legislators in the 2010 PRIMARY, so that there can be unity of purpose to help Obama with his democratic plan for the nation.

............................................

I understand the intent of this post but wonder if you understand how your candidates are chosen? There are certainly differences between the two political parties to which our choices are limited by a system built by them and for them, but these differences are minor in nature and tend to even out in the give and take of legislative bartering.

I wonder if you would consider that, in the next election cycle, your vote be given to a candidate who best expresses your own personal views on the direction of this nation rather than to someone from the mainstream of political sameness?

Until and unless we the people refuse the choice of either Tweedledee or Tweedledum, until and unless our legislative bodies contain a wider choice of political views from which coalitions must be formed to get bills passed, we will be trapped in a system run by the money for the benefit of the money.

Third party politics offers a bloodless revolution and I fear the alternative to such is far from bloodless.

FRIDAY   1105 PM/CST DFW

The explination of all these issues are made clear in “The Returns of Zionism” by Gabriel Piterberg.

My thanks to you both, Foggyjones and Garth; I’ll do my best!

SATURDAY   1222 AM/CST   DFW

REF: PAUL_GA (FREEDOM QUOTE)

Oustanding posts you have made so far tonight. I have already learned a thing or two. This steady tightening down the screws on freedom and liberty is really getting notice to millions of people. So many signs and clues everywhere you look. Only the braindead but walking partisans cannot see the writing on the wall.

But I am here to read, please keep up the good work.

Paul_GA

Thanks for the link.  I wish i’d known about the Bush site before.  Classic quotes.  Whhat’s that saying, Birds of a feather flock together.
Now I can see how H.W. and Billy Blythe get along so well.

Sorry to get off-topic, Garth, but Bush the Shrub, in 1999, expressing anger about a satirical website that made him out to be a chronic cocaine-snorter, blurted out at a press conference, “There ought to be limits on freedom!”

http://www.rtmark.com/more/articles/bushdallas0522bush1bushsite.htm

Anyway, your Clinton quote shows why that man was wrong; the Shrub quote shows why HE was wrong. And one can see why I left the Repubs and have voted Libertarian ever since. Both wings of the Statist Party are pushing this country towards totalitarianism.

The only excuse I can think of for this comment is that the real Bill Clinton actually died and his after-birth lived.

Now here’s a quote to remember Bill Clinton by.
**************************************************
“When we got organized as a country and we wrote a fairly radical constitution with a radical bill of rights, giving a radical amount of individual freedom to Americans, it was assumed that the Americans who had that freedom would use it responsibly…. What’s happened in America today is too many people live in areas where there’s no family structure, no community structure and no work structure. And so there’s a lot of irresponsibility. And so a lot of people say there’s too much personal freedom. When personal freedom’s being abused, you have to move to limit it….”—President Bill Clinton
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
At one time I was tricked into thinking that this asswipe was a good president.  I heard he was 6’ 4”.  That’s how high they can pile it in Arkansas, now Washington.
I completely agree with Kevin Phillips now in his disgust for this low life cracker of a traitor.

Harry Reid needs to let real filibusters occur, not just the threat.  If some Democrats want to stand up with the Republicans and read from the Telephone Book to block legislation, let them.  Just make sure the cameras are rolling.  Reid lacks the steel to make his huge majority really work.  We need someone than knows how to crack heads as the Senate majority leader—-Reid is not it.  A better choice would be Shumer, or Durbin.

I just heard on the radio that tomorrow the Credit Card bill, the one that Obama pushed rather than the Foreclosure Relief, will cause some Dem/Rep realignment in the Senate.  Some Democrats will cross over to vote with the Republicans to kill it or weaken it to the point where it will be every bit as useless as those traitors are.
I’ll bet a different group will cross over and provide cover for those who jumped ship in the Foreclosure fight.  They’ll say that they are protecting the credit card companies because they are taking such large risks lending money to the deadbeat Americans.
What do people need to see what’s happening?  A thumb in the eye?  A kick in the balls?  A knife in the back?  I had enough when Obama changed his vote on FISA. 
It’s only going to get worse.  Got any sons or daughters of military age hanging around the house?  Would you like to donate any?

It appears to me that it is easier for the oligarchy to keep those bought and paid for electorate, including the president, but not so hard either to buy the new ones or replacements. As garth says the electorate are only interested in re-election where by they will, for a day or a few hours, pretend to be interested in the people, US, so we can re-elect them. Once the elections are over, the samo business as usual with the lobbyist coming in with the cash.

I don’t think anything is clearer than this current rush by lobbyists to persuade congress NOT to pass legislation that would give citizens direct relief from foreclosure through the bailout or whatever means. It just falls right into place as how our now out of control and thoroughly criminally infected government works.

Seems the right to object, protest or even question what the criminals do with our government is vanishing under the cloud of ‘with them or against them’ and if you are against them, there will be repercussions. So it filters on down to where the people don’t know where or how to turn this crooked mess around even if it is clear as to what needs to be done. At the least, vote them out.

It seems to me that we have three factions of a crime family.  They are supported by AIPAC, Wall St./City of London, Big Oil, and Defense contractors. The three factions could be called Democrats, Republicans and military brass, but it makes no difference because all they are really interested in is getting re-elected.  They’ll go as far as helping a memeber of another party get reelected by bipartisan sponsorship of bills, providing cover for controversial votes and introducing bills and then running from them.
They’re only interested in getting reelected, nothing else.  A few stragglers might sponsor something or speak out, but they too will bend or break when their seat is threatened.
To parphrase Eugene V. Debs (thanks to Ralph Nader) we could have so much but we’re willing to settle for so little.  And throw in a series of unnecessary wars, to boot.

By garth, May 4 at 9:26 am
““I agree with Samosamo, but my cable charges extra for msnbc, and I’ll be damned if I’m going to fork over more money to be lied to.”“
********************************

Well, I don’t have tv. PERIOD. No cable, no antenna, no dish. When I moved here in 2000 I gave it up. Too frustrated with the crap msm forces on people to veg the people out. Programming, commercials/advertizing, and empty crap to have my mind to have to sort though trash.
I use msnbc’s website for my msm information check point. By that you may gather I look for things that most likely aren’t odious unction. Here is a decent example of what I sift through versus that odious unction which is encountered all too often:
*********************************************
Mine That Bird to run Preakness |  Brunker’s view

LeBron James to win MVP, source tells AP

Stocks surge after housing data |  Video

Filene’s Basement files for bankruptcy

Gunmen abduct 3-year-old from Calif. home |  Video

Cops: Teen escapes as Fla. dad kills family, self

U.S. faces limited options in Pakistan

Supreme Court throws out Janet Jackson ruling

Newsweek: Top Bush aide laments Iraq war

Newsweek: Why the Prius is past its prime

Fan arrested after jumping on stage with Spears
************************************************
That is or was msnbc’s ‘other top stories’ box and as you see there is not that much that is of use for anyone but the cultivated veggie. Imagaine the importance of the supreme court going back to the janet jackson ruling. Or lord forbid some ‘fan’ jumping on stage with britney.
And Newsweek chimes in with making us believe the prius is ‘overthehill’.
Most of the time it is quick, but there can be information available that can be of use.
And I guess what I want to ask is your IP the cctv or what?

Glad you see it that way, Garth. We really don’t have two big “parties”, strictly speaking, but rather two wings of one big Statist party. The only difference is that the Repubs would rather concentrate on foreign policy while the Demos would rather focus on domestic policy.

Sometimes I wish we had a two party system.  Since that has broken down, I tend to agree with the ones on this thread who are pushing for the Green Party. Something must be done. 
Maybe after all Obama’s delightful words have been spoken, and all his promises have been broken, the the parade of distractions will have passed, and the voters will wake up and want their government back. Historians point out that the pathology of empire shows that empires have taken less time to self-destruct.  If we want to die the death of a 1000 cuts and keep listening to the government and MSM, then who knows how long it will actually take and how it will actuall end.  And how long can distractions in and of themselves work?
This latest flap about off shore taxes is a case in point.  I’ll bet he calls some notables to the White House has a photo-op, delivers a stern speech and then slinks off to the bowling alley or the basketball court to revel in his self-satisfaction.
I agree with Samosamo, but my cable charges extra for msnbc, and I’ll be damned if I’m going to fork over more money to be lied to.  I am conditioning myself to doubt everythiing I hear or read in the media.  As one independent news program on CCTV pointed out, in an MSM news report, the only thing factual was the date.
Wolf Blitzer drove me away from CNN also.  I just scan the news programs on Sundays, and I just happened to catch that ECRI pseudo-economics guy on John King’s show.

David Sirota

Your comment: “This legislative magic bullet will force Democrats to fulfill their policy promises and potentially commence an era of dominance, or fail and get annihilated at the polls.”

Interesting point.  It CERTAINLY will do that, I agree.  What will their position be worth…. without votes…., a can of beans (or rather a “hill of beans”... in “old speak”)?  Maybe they’re imagining that they can “cram it all in” before re-election.

Hmmmm…..consider how many Americans are now interested in politics and IMAGINE how many Americans are non-ideological, regardless of the hype.  It certainly gives me pause to wonder.

I find myself wondering what the fatal mistake of our “two-party” system will be.

In the 2010 PRIMARY ELECTIONS next year WE THE PEOPLE need to do some more clean-up work in the Democratic Party, so that the banks don’t own the Senate.  Every Democratic Senator that voted against the mortgage rewrite bill, that Garth noted in his post,will no longer be needed, as their assistance to do the people’s work in U. S. Senate legislation is no longer required; all of them must be pink slipped from the Senate on an extended leave of absence for the rest of their lives by the VOTE. Someone will replace them, but if not, no one would be better than these corporate/banker owned pseudo-representatives secretly selling our nation’s citizenry out to the highest bidder; these EMERGENCY VOTING changes must be made in the Democrats Congressional legislators in the 2010 PRIMARY, so that there can be unity of purpose to help Obama with his democratic plan for the nation.

By garth, May 3 at 7:39 pm
““A clown on CNN today said the leading indicators show the recession is over, but we might lose 2 to 3 million more jobs.”“
*********************

Wolf blitzer keeps me away from cnn along with some of those ridiculus assessments like ‘the recession is over’ even as ‘america will lose several million more jobs’. That number I fear is low because corporate america did a fantastic job of hollowing out the manufacturing base that was what made america a real economic power.

For my MSM information, I begrudgingly go to msnbc, it is a bit more palatable than cnn will ever be.

Even makes me grind my teeth when I think of our late dwarf of a presidential ‘decider’ , w, kept coming out almost every month saying so many hunderds of thousands of jobs were created during is faux presidency.

If those were the jobs created, they must have been at macdonalds and burger king. And boy howdy, will those jobs ever give one to realize the american dream, whatever that is now.

Specter is totally a non-issue for passing any reform bills.  It is like the old saying goes, “you can put a duck in a chicken cage but it is still a duck.”  Besides the democrats have plenty of democrats that will vote with the republicans anyway, simply to block any meaningful reform.  These are the ones that need to be weeded out ASAP.  I do agree that the republican party aided by the MSM with it owns and controls is so far out of mainstream America that the republican party will hopefully go the way as its predecessor and name sake. “the know nothing party”.

America is a diverse nation with legitimate political views we should have a congress mixed with democrats, independents, libertarians, green party and others with genuine concerns and ideological values. 

Today’s republican party/MSM cares only about the rich and to hell with the rest of the country and double hell to the rest of the world, albeit bushes oil buddies, defense contractors and poppy growers. They are totally devoid of any values, morals and character but I imagine most read or had their professors explain Machiavellian principles and as they say the rest is history.

Samosamo,

Thanks for the video.  I couldn’t help but think that this is the beginning of fascism with the business elite, a Senator and the PR people.
A clown on CNN today said the leading indicators show the recession is over, but we might lose 2 to 3 million more jobs.
What will these videos and the news shows look like when the foreclosed upon can’t take it any more and things get very ugly?  Will they be just as jolly?

By James W. Purrington, May 2 at 6:18 pm
Your comment wasn’t hard at all to bring this to mind. I even wonder why I haven’t seen it covered here at TD.

http://bravenewfilms.org/blog/?p=70556

Nothing like your ‘trusted american’ corporations and the treasonous electorate rushing to the rescue, is there?

Dihey, according to the Wikipedia article on the US Senate, “senators’ retirement and health benefits are identical to other federal employees, and are fully vested after five years of service”. Note that—*just five years*; and Specter has been a senator for nearly 30 years.

So Specter, one might say, doesn’t NEED to stay in the Senate, but he WANTS to—it’s an ego trip. And he wants to be a member of the majority party again; though if the Repubs should (mirabile dictu!) regain control of the Senate, he’s just SOL.

Does Specter have to stay in the Senate to qualify for maximum retirement benefits?

Shift wrote:

“There is no hope in Washington David.  The only hope remaining is within us and in our local communities.  Washington is populated with criminals and crooks just like Wall Street.”

That’s why I call Washington “Mordor-on-the-Potomac” and New York City “Isengard-on-the-Hudson”.

The changing of parties by Senator Spector illustrates rather well that our two party system is a fraud and a not-so-funny joke. This incredible bit of self serving nonsense, ducking a primary he could not win and couching that in terms of patriotism and ideological zeal is one more stone on the grave of our two party sham of a system.

The willing acceptance of Spector into the ranks of the Democrats may be seen as an insurance against filibuster, but it certainly should be a sign of the nonsensical allegiance to one party or the other and puts forward the belief that electing one party over another brings virtually no change , not in the fundamental policies and direction of our governance.

Are You Joking???
You are asserting that all who cloak themselves in Blue are Dems to begin with, they aren’t. The so called ConservaDems are nothing more than the ship jumpers the DLC (or their offspring). The DLC was a group of Republicans who bugged out of the Party when the Moral Majority took over in the ‘80’s.
Who’s Two Presidential campaigns mirrored each others- Hillary and McCains. One would sing the Line and the other provided back up vocals.
What do you think the Corp appeasement doctrine of the DLC’s ‘Third Way’ was all about.
I will give it to Spector at least he did not jump ship in the cover of night- we know exactly who he is and his true allegience (himself). the same kudos can not be extended to those who have played Dem to the electorate and then returned to vote for the Corp’s interests. Until we Dems sift through these covert operatives, we will never have a sure fire majority- much to the detriment of All american Citizens. Case in Point…The failed Home Foreclosure Bill killed by so called Dems.
Who’s screwing up the Dem’s ability to move legislation forward to help Americans - The Clintonites, Goldwaters Girl’s legion of co conspirators. Nothing more than Corp Whores dressed in Blue.

There is no hope in Washington David.  The only hope remaining is within us and in our local communities.  Washington is populated with criminals and crooks just like Wall Street.

If there will be a Democratic primary in Pennsylvania next year with Specter participating, the only thing his opponents will have to do to win the “female vote” is to Show Specter’s disgusting razzing of Anita Hill in TV ad after TV ad. I’d love to see that and I’d love to see Specter coming apart at the seams.
There are actually numerous other occasions in which he behaved like a cad. Or a rat. Show them!
At least Specter voted No on President Clinton’s two impeachment charges.
The no voters were an interesting assortment:
Chafee of Rhode Island, Collins of Maine, Gorton of Washington, Jeffords of Vermont, Shelby of Alabama, Snowe of Maine, Specter of Pennsylvania, Stevens of Alaska, Thompson of Tennessee, and Warner of Virginia.

If you want single-payer healthcare, an end to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, meaningful action on climate change, and a fair economy, get active with the Green Party. Now that the Democrats have a super-majority in Washington, they’re going to do whatever they can to protect it. The only way they’ll take progressive stands is if they see a strong independent force like the Greens threatening to attract progressive voters. Otherwise, they will consistently move right to attract swing voters from the GOP, as Clinton did. As FDR said, go out there and put pressure on the Democrats to do the right thing.

I feel some new excuses coming on and they are:

“We cannot pass same-sex marriage because we would have to repeal DOMA, and right now we’re too busy saving the economy.”

“We cannot have a single-payer system because we would be depriving citizens of choice.”

“We cannot leave Iraq because the situation in the region has deteriorated.”

“Afganistan is not like Vietraq and is very important and worth the American sacrifice.”

“Marijuana may be occasionally medicinal, but if we legalize it we will have lost the drug wars.”

“We cannot develop sustainable energy because we need lots and lots of electricity to power the American Lifestyle. We need nuclear, and it doesn’t produce carbon dioxide.”

“We no longer believe separation of Church and State is as important as it was; besides, so many churches do social work like the LDS in California.”

“We don’t condone torture, but we believe America is a land where torturers must enjoy human rights.”

Obvious to me that Mr. Sirota is saying this with sarcasm.

Hiding behind the Republican party and Rush Limbaugh has become a way of life for many Democratics.

But as previous poster Garth pointed out, today was the day the showed themselves.

I think it’s a myth that people like Specter, the de-facto aristocracy who spend years and years in Congress, represent the interests of the party or the poor, ignored constituency that dutifully re-re-reelects them.

I don’t think it really makes much difference what party Sen. Specter claims to be a member of (He’ll obviously join any party that will get him reelected.), nor do I think he even remembers that he came from somewhere other than Washington, D.C.

If every citizen in the U.S., every one of us, gave a dollar, we could put together a three hundred million dollar fund which we could use to pay our congressmen and senators to pass bills that would help us. 

The Israelis have been paying our elected representatives for legislation for years, and they get far more U.S. taxpayer dollars, per capita, from our own Congress than we do. 

The Israelis figured out how it works. 

We Americans really ought to try the “under the table” approach, too.  What we’re doing now isn’t working at all.

In his first vote as a Democrat Specter joined 11 other Democrats to help the Republicans defeat the legislation that would have let debt-ridden homeowners seek mortgage relief in bankruptcy court.  The vote was 45-51 against.
From AP

Our President, Mr. Milquetoast
“Obama said the bill was important to saving the economy and promised to push for its passage. But facing stiff opposition from banks, he did little to lean on lawmakers who worried it might spike interest rates. Instead, he focused his efforts on less divisive legislation that would reduce high fees charged by credit cards.

Democratic leaders bitterly lamented that they were powerless, as 11 Democrats and the latest addition to the Democrats, Sen. Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania, joined Republicans to scuttle the bill. The 45 votes in favor of the bill fell far short of the 60 that would have been needed for passage.

“The banks that are too big to fail are saying that 8 million Americans facing foreclosure are too little to count in this economy,” said Senate Majority Whip Dick Durbin, who championed the bill.
==============================================
These are the fascist traitors of the American people and to their oath of office:  (They don’t like being called fascists.)

Baucus (D-MT)(Cold winters cause brain freeze.)
Bennet (D-CO)
Byrd (D-WV)(Is he alive?)
Carper (D-DE)
Dorgan (D-ND)(Now, he can stop his bicyle schtick.)
Johnson (D-SD)(Head injury?)
Landrieu (D-LA)(What a fraud.)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Nelson (D-NE)(A mis-placed WalMart greeter.)
Pryor (D-AR)
Specter (D-PA)(One-shot Arnie.)
Tester (D-MT) (This guy is a fat, loud mouthed ass.)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Specter projects quite an image on Capitol Hill.  He was seen walking down the corridor after exiting a men’s room with a partial roll of toilet paper stuck to the heel of his shoe.  Now there’s a man who knows where his ass is.

I wish Truthdig would create a Bum O’ the Month Club something like the list of palookas who fought Joe Louis, only these Bums would be like ones in the list above. 
They’re only getting away with these votes because it’s not covered by an honest press and their constituents are fed the BS from right-wing radio.

See Moyers show on PBS for Friday, May 1.  The second part of the show covers these foreclosures.  Dick Durbin of Illinois said the banks own the Congress. 

That’s how much the Democrats, or the American people for that matter, can count on Specter.

Mr.Sirota,

Surely you are aware of the irony of your “magic bullet” metaphor?

The magic bullet was the lynch pin in the first big government/media coverup of the post war era. A President was filmed being shot down on the streets of Dallas. The film indicates at least one fatal shot from in front, but within minutes, the police announce a mysterious suspect who was behind the President. Since the gun that was supposedly his had only three shots fired, it was critical to show that somehow those three shots accounted for all the broken glass, and wounds involved. The “magic bullet” theory posited that a bullet that mysteriously appeared on a hospital stretcher with no clear chain of evidence had somehow defied the laws of physicas and traced a non-linear trajectory through the president and another man’s shoulder and wristbone virtually unmarked, and completely undamaged.

It was the fundamental basis for a lie that to this day is accepted by the establishment press as history and defended on well financed tv shows and websites, though completely rejected by distinguished forensic scientists and all informed, thinking people.

Specter was the author of that lie, and he and Gerald Ford were both sponsored for advancement because of their willingness to stare down the obvious in defense of the ridiculous.

This is the man who will bring a magic bullet to the defense of the Democrats? That begs the question: What outlandish versions of reality are they planning to foist on us?

Unfortunately, the question is too easy to answer.

o tempora, o mores…

Another major political disaster is brewing for President Obama and he deserves all of it because of his stupidity.
It is now known that Vice President Biden did not simply make a casual suggestion to Senator Specter: “say Arlen, why don’t you become one of us” but repeatedly tried to talk Specter into joining the Democrats. Apparently they also discussed the “price” that the president would have to pay for Specters aye on critical legislation. Was Obama unaware of what was offered?
Hey, how is this different from Blagojevitchism?
Both Obama and Biden knew all along that Specter would want to run again in 2010 on the Democratic ticket. They also knew that there were attractive and much younger and already established Democratic candidates considering to run.
So what is Obama going to do next year? Two of his three choices will throw the potentially Democratic challengers and Biden under the bus. The third will throw Specter under the bus.
One: remain neutral. Perhaps a saving grace for Biden but I doubt that the Democratic activists in Pennsylvania will buy this.
Two: Support Specter. There are already signs of growing anger among Pennsylvanian Democratic party activists. That is not good in a so-called “battleground state”.
Three: Support an opponent of Specter in the primary. That will throw Specter under the bus.
Canceling the Democratic primary would only make Obama look like the Chicago hack he really is.
How can this supposedly “intelligent” man make such a gigantic blunder? For the sake of 60 votes in the Senate? Maybe he is not as intelligent as advertised.
My prediction: this coward will remain neutral and let his aides plus vice do the “under the bus throwing”. Obama has had enough practice in the past. He does not need more.

**What I would like to see from your article here and from eugene robinson’s just below it, is the total collapse of both the republican and democrat parties and then the rise of 3rd uncompromised parties that would not have itself stuck so far up corporate’s and izraeli’s asses that we could get to real changes in this sorry ass excuse of a faux government pretending to work for those that elected them.**

Samosamo, I’m fully in agreement! I’ve said of the Repubs and Demos, since my abandonment of the former more than a decade ago, “A plague on both their houses!” I still mean it. This country doesn’t need two new big parties, a new Tweedledumb and Tweedledumber; it needs a whole cartload of parties that get together in temporary coalitions and break up at the drop of a hat.

A country with a government like that ought to have a hard time going to war except in self-defense, for one thing.

What I would like to see from your article here and from eugene robinson’s just below it, is the total collapse of both the republican and democrat parties and then the rise of 3rd uncompromised parties that would not have itself stuck so far up corporate’s and izraeli’s asses that we could get to real changes in this sorry ass excuse of a faux government pretending to work for those that elected them.

First slam shut the doors on lobbyists, then tear the MSM away from those 4 or 5 conservative owners who keep any opposing views from reaching the people. Make lobbying a capital crime that can bring the death sentence because it isn’t just that the lobbyists are bribing our electorate for their benefit at our expsense, those loyyists are doing what they can to destroy this republic for their greedy wants and wishes(TREASON).
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There is something wrong with this web site. Of late, I have had long delays just getting on here or to properly comment, review and publish my comment. Right now am experiencing ‘website not available’. I can’t help but believe this site is under attack from somewhere as I would think Scheer and company would notify us of any maintenance of the site.