Tao the Wise writes:

“What he might do, having aroused considerable enthusiasm for CHANGE! among many of those he calls frequently “theamericanpeople,” is to encourage them to re-ORGAN-ize their “selfs” into real Living Communities….evidently something he demonstrated some actual talent for, before getting into electoral politics.”

~~~

Bingo again,

This is what we’ve been talking about, eh? That he could go ‘either way’ at this point.

My own sense is that those skills/talents you’re referencing are still very much a priority for Barack Obama, (the Community RE-ORGANization) along with the ideology that shaped them.

And, I’ve seen signs of it along the way, particularly in reference to his focus on education, the value of science, the building of a green energy collection and distribution system that can effectively be ‘nationalized’.

In fact, I was just thinking about that, in terms of Hugo Chavez, and how much an ‘enemy’ he has been to the neocons of Big Oil. I mean, they’ve done everything they could to get rid of that guy, JUST BECAUSE he was gonna cut off their free tap of his country’s oil. (repeat of Castro’s earlier treatment in reference to the US attempted colonization of Cuba)

Now switch tracks for a moment, and think about where the bulk of the market profits have been realized over the past 8 years…CHEVRON, EXXON-MOBILE, SHELL, BP America, ENRON (via fraud) HALLIBURTON – (via the same). All of the producers, processors, refiners of all of these energy producing substances just take it from us and sell it back to us in processed form, and charge us a cazillion percent of what the effort is really worth, putting the cazillions of those dollars in their own pockets.

Now let’s just say that over an extended period of time, (based on Obama’s kick-off plan) we start getting our energy from solar, wind, and hydro farms that are nationalized? We own ‘em, and we work ‘em, (wherever they happen to be) and we control the distribution and the collection of payment as well. And, we only charge as much as it costs to collect, process, and distribute. If there’s a profit to be made by selling the stuff to somebody else as well, then we’ll pocket that too. Sounds like a pretty good (and profitable) community organization if you ask me. It’s also highly likely to have already pissed off Big International Oil/Crude, because their own form of it has been their top cash crop for decades. But none of these Robber Barons had enough sense to plan for when their cash cow would run out. We could logically ‘assume’ that they would simply be satisfied with the cazillions they’ve ripped off over the decades. But, they never are.

You might all will suggest that I’m heavily indulging at a powwow or something, and that none of this is possible, because admittedly it does take some imagination and far-sighted vision, because we can’t necessarily connect what he’s doing now, to the hoped-for results.
Meantime, it’s true that he CAN do these things, and it might even be true that he has some of them in the works. The focus on education is very much a community oriented one, at least that’s my sense of what Obama expects it to be, if funded properly. The funding on infrastructure would involve the same.
So, there are signs of this community RE-ORGAN-ization on the larger palette. At least that’s my sense. Sometimes the details of such seemingly boring mechanics are overlooked.

That’s NOT to say that Obama isn’t still vulnerable on other fronts, and I remain concerned about his decisions in terms of US military involvement, ANYWHERE.

But, it ain’t ALL bad news, especially since you referenced Michelle Obama and the girls. Michelle does indeed have her feet planted firmly on the ground, and Obama has long ago advised us, that it is SHE who is HIS ‘top advisor.’ Or, as he said…his ‘rock’.

He’ll be fine.

A worthwhile question the domesticated peoples might be asking one another is:  Why is the plutoligarchy so frantically pulling out all the propaganda stops and ramping-up their reign-of-terror in an attempt to keep everybody CONfined to their false eCONomy?  Could it be their backhanded way of admitting the actual existence of a whole Living World OUTSIDE the virtual world-o’-hurt generated by their sputtering apparatus of captivity and CONtrol….one in which “....your huddled masses” could actually satisfy their “....yearning to breathe free.”?

Having several times here noted the lethally delusional nature of “power,” this old Indian wasn’t suggesting that Barack Obama might do some good by exercising any of the ‘stuff,’ as omniadeo seems to’ve assumed.  What he might do, having aroused considerable enthusiasm for CHANGE! among many of those he calls frequently “theamericanpeople,” is to encourage them to re-ORGAN-ize their “selfs” into real Living Communities….evidently something he demonstrated some actual talent for, before getting into electoral politics.

Recovering the integrity of our natural organic function within the Living Arrangement of our Mother Earth includes seeing such things as parenthood in that way….rather than as mere “roles” in some kind of make-believe morality play.  It would be in his organic function as father, husband, brother, etc., that Obama, for example (and everybody else, gender-specifically, of course), will find the grounding and fortitude and endurance necessary to resist the siren-song of “personality” and “power” and “policy” and “private property uber alles.”

Michelle Obama certainly looks to have her own feet firmly on the ground of her genuine organic place in Life Herownself’s scheme of things.  When her husband and the father of her daughters catches-on to the utter vacuousness of the “pomp and circumstance” surrounding him, and recognizes it for the fatally seductive illusion it is, and connects it to the entire phantasm of ideological/institutional/technological “prowess” with which he is at-present so enthralled, and becomes perhaps at-first bitterly disappointed at the exposure of its emptiness, she will likely be the source of Light and Life to which he will naturally turn.

What remains to be seen is whether it happens soon enough to maybe help forestall some of the worst of what awaits the domesticated peoples, as the “civilizing” CONtraption falls to-pieces all around them, in the way of hardship, terror, and despair.  No, even “The One” can’t do much about that, in-and-of his “self.”  He is, however, for-better-or-worse, occupying a position captive people are programmed to look-to for direction. 

The thing is, his people will have to tell him plainly where it is they need him to “lead” them….out of this desert made of their destructive “individual” desires and back into the given place of Humanity within the Living Arrangement of our Mother Earth within the great Song ‘n’ Dance of Life Herownself.

HokaHey!

The ultimate result of guarding men from the effects of paltriness is to overstuff the world with contemptibly unimportant jackasses.

And omniadeo you are a fool.  We can call each other names until doomsday.  I’ve had much practice with Folktruther and a few other really bad mouths.  You might be suffering from a form of Anosognosia which is a disorder characterized by the inability, or, some would say, the unwillingness, to perceive one’s own mental paralysis caused by self-deception involving exaggerated perceptions of those who disagree with you.  And it appears you have a fixation on variations of the word rhetoric.  I can post more on this unhealthy affliction if you like.

TAOWalker,

Your suggestion that the best way to get to Obama is through Michelle is very shrewd. It is probably easier to reach her than Barack, who is surrounded by establishment “advisors”. I’m going to work on this. Maybe we can find a private channel.

Shenonymous,

You are brainwashed. Sorry, but it is that simple. There simply is no Islamist threat that requires anything other than basic defensive police protection and a foreign policy that does not look at all Muslim countries as so many squares on the game board, for us to take when we “need” to.

All the threats in Afghhanistan (that’s right ALL of them, were created by the US, first to oppose the Soviets then to frighten us to justify our own occupation. This is not “conspiracy theory” either. This is history. Verifiable by anyone who cares to look behind the propaganda machine at the simple historical record of the growth of terrorism in the region.

You say that my post below was “rhetoric.” I would point out that there is not a anything on these forums that is not. But my rhetoric states the actual physical results of our actions: the death of children and their parents and the killing and maiming of others by our own in the name of the propaganda that has infected your mind.

Your rhetoric covers over these horrible truths with abstract phrases.

TAO Walker,

An unusually good post, even for you.

About the song and dance of life herownself, you are, of course, the authority. With respect to Obama, I am afraid that he has much less power than you think. Even if his daughters and his wife and his own better self convince him of the right path, when he takes it, he will find himself powerless at best, or ghost-dancing with JFK and your fallen ancestors at worst.

And the words of a Wise Old Indian (TAO) always speak to the reality..

•  “That Barack Obama has, at least for the moment, come under the sway of our tormentors’ two-legged tools is difficult to deny, on the face of it….though those here who maintain he is not, yet, really one of them, could be right.  At the same time, there are some even here in Indian Country who see him as having a genuine potential, when it comes right down to “the-moment-of-truth,” to break-out of the fear-and-money-mongering straight-jacket his “advisors” are trying to keep him in, and to then find ways to go-about (as it says in Hexagram #49, Revolution, of the I Ching) “....truly meeting the needs of The People.”

`*~

That’s where we are now Tao, and your best guess is the same as mine…it could go either way with him.
That means that these are exceedingly perilous times for him (personally) and even the ‘people’ to the extent that we are domesticated. (Even though we less-Tame Ones know that he is not the Messiah and that no Single Individual will ever pave The Way.)
Still, it is SO ‘touch and go’ with him right now, because he’s definitely under attack by his tormentors, and that is tormenting ME! (seriously – it’s worked itself into a full gastro-intestinal episode, a sure sign of how skinny this tight-rope is.)

I need to find my way to the nearest Sweat Lodge.

In Afghanistan, they are fighting a guerilla war, much as did the colonists during the US Revolution.  Why should we bother to fight them? What will we gain? A chance to establish a democracy there? They don’t want it. They want their ancient culture of tribalism, etc. 
    If we withdrew all of our troops and simply put up blockades to keep them locked up within their own country, it would save us time, money and our soldier’s lives.  It would also stop the flow of drugs from Afghanistan.
    sometimes the simplest solution is the best.

As usual TAO Walker puts things in perspective as we are constantly fooled by the Kansas City Shuffle.

Shenonymous offers as proof of the grave “threat” hard-core “Islamists” are to “the West,” another incidence of a supposed gang of ‘em kidnapping some “European tourists,” this time in Egypt.  As threats go, such penny-ante stuff (just like the “Somali pirates”) pales next to the continuing practice of “Western powers” making hostages out of entire countries and populations….hell, of the whole world, if they can get away with it!

Tony Wicher is right that the plutoligarchy’s grip on the throats and gonads of the domesticated people is not yet absolute or unbreakable….the former because it’s a functional impossibility, the latter because there remains a Way to get free of it, to get out of “the Great Game” other commenters have noted, once-and-for-all.  Our un-dead tormentors are betting their own fading non-lives, however, on the “....huddled masses” being unable to endure the considerable and painful sacrifice it will take to tear-away from their vicious hold.  They’re also betting a sub-species like “individual”-ized Homo Domesticus will not see that the Way clear of their predicament is in re-ORGAN-izing the easy-pickings “selfs” they hold so dear into the Living Communities that are the Natural FORM of Humanity within the Living Arrangement of our Mother Earth.

Max Shields gets that, as do some others here.  So in certain essential ways the apparatus of captivity and CONfinment is already starting to come-apart.  The Way to get from under the pyramid scam is not to go after its perp-e-traitors, seeking with-a-vengeance merely to replace them a whole new gang, but to deprive it of its implanted “foundations” in our own hearts and minds.  Then it’ll simply collapse from the weight of its own fatal CONtradictions.

That Barack Obama has, at least for the moment, come under the sway of our tormentors’ two-legged tools is difficult to deny, on the face of it….though those here who maintain he is not, yet, really one of them, could be right.  At the same time, there are some even here in Indian Country who see him as having a genuine potential, when it comes right down to “the-moment-of-truth,” to break-out of the fear-and-money-mongering straight-jacket his “advisors” are trying to keep him in, and to then find ways to go-about (as it says in Hexagram #49, Revolution, of the I Ching) “....truly meeting the needs of The People.”

This Old Man’s best guess is that it could yet go either way with him….his Better-half, and their Daughters, the ones most likely to furnish his motivation for coming-away from “the establishment” that presently CONscripts and CONfabulates him.  Anyhow, the fate of the domesticated people hardly hinges on the character and decisions of a single one of them….even, as some seem to feel, “The One.”

Lucky for all of us the neverending Song ‘n’ Dance of Life Herownself here is not limited to only Handel’s “Messiah.”

HokaHey!

I should add that Obama is figuring things out as he goes along. He has announced he is sending 17000 more troops to Afghanistan, as promised during the campaign, but he has also said that he is undertaking a “wide-ranging review” of our Afghanistan policy. I’m positive that getting bogged down in Afghanistan is the last thing he, or his advisor Brzezinski, want to do. I believe that when he investigates such things as the drones that Diane Feinstein has said are based in Pakistan bombing Pashtun villages, radicalizing the population and causing anti-American sentiment, we are going to see some big policy changes.

Hey, Max - I actually agree with every word of your last post. Our difference is that so far it looks to my like Obama is that very strong leader that we need. He is going to preside over the large-scale socialization of American capitalism, beginning with the nationalization of the banking system. This will enable the kind of regulation of the markets that we have never seen before. He will do this, not for ideological reasons, but because he has to, because he is a pragmatist and this is what will work.

Shenonymous sorry about some of the grammatical errors in my last comment.

The subtext that Obama is working on is in the wrong direction. The US has just about no time. It’s position in the world to influence is sinking, but because the economics is all tied together globally, the US can still move this in the right direction with strong leadership.

Again, this is not yesterday’s depression, it appears to be broader and deeper. Oil created a world that separated us from one another and the natural order. The heights it took this “civilization” is astounding which means that the fall will be much greater for many millions (billions) of people the world over.

Playing games in Afghanistan is the last thing that’s needed given the peril we face.

Shenonymous,

To the issue of Obama, Afghanistan and the larger calamities. First, Afghanistan must be exited NOW. It’s just that simple, no equivocation or “but if you only knew what you don’t know…” gargage. Out!!

The problems facing us all, are much bigger than Obama. We must transition from the system which is spiriling into a death trap of its own making. Nowing Obama does regarding stimulus will help anyone (it could speed up the downward spiril). He is part of the problem when he signed onto the first bail out of the banking/wall street finance sector. So, he’s as into it as G. W. Bush. And he’s go nowhere to go.

Afhanistan is wrong on moral grounds as well as on general policy grounds. It is a quagmire and Obama is has just stepped into it with both feet. He can’t blame Bush, he (Obama) has chosen this and campaigned on it. It is his “war”, not Bush who did not use drones to the extent that Obama has already authorized.

Obama didn’t create the financial collapse, and he has no way out of it because his job is to ‘save’ not transition this system - be very clear about that. His mentors: Lincoln and FDR (at least as we are told) were all about saving, not changing.

Today, is not 1930 (nor 1860s). We are faced with a situation which, I think is unlike anything we’ve seen and have any real understanding of. Obama is hoping - I would guess - for a miracle - a hail marry pass and he has no idea where it will come from.

Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, peak oil, climate change, the collapsing/ depression global economy are all of this is of a piece.

So what do we need? We need to be on a path of de-industrialization, de-militarize the MIC, begin the process of shutting down bases (under Obama we are adding - Italy), and pull out of all occupied nation-states. We can’t afford to be their and they can’t afford to have US troops occupying and creating unrest. Obama needs to begin the process of negotiating a complete drawdown of the world’s nuclear arsenal and all offensive weaponry.

We, need to think and act locally; transition away from the industrialization that has become our world and requires fossil fuel to run it. There is simply no replacement for oil!! There are alternatives, but they cannot sustain the industrialization we’ve grown accustom to.

We need to grow our families and communities and our inner lives and not our consumption and our excessive use of the earth’s resources. we are under 5% of the world and consume most of the worlds resources (per capita 5 times that of the rest of the world).

Shenonymous, there is something called reality and it is coming at us like a freight train. We need to face it and stop thinking this is about saving American capitalism and the uneconomic growth pathology that got us here. This is real, it is now, and some of this needs to be done at the national and global level.

If Obama can’t handle it we need someone who can. It’s just to pressing and big. He didn’t create it but we need more than speeches and “he’s smarter the GW Bush”. Bush is gone. We need to get over that and face what we’ve got, and like it or not, what we helped create

Folkie,

Well, if anybody out there respects my opinion, then my recommendation is for every American of good will to get behind Obama, because this is the only chance we are ever going to get to restore democracy and constitutional law, and Obama can’t do it without our active and informed support.

tony wicher—the policies that Obama espouses is totally irrelevant to the fact that he looks good on television. Paris Hilton also looks good on television.  And Paris Hilton was also against McClain, calling him a ‘wrinkly old man.”  (That must have really stung!)  I suggest to you that being against McCain and looking good on television, the Paris Hilton approach to political policy, is an insufficient basis for evaluating political leaders.

And this is true even though, as Beerdoctor has commented, most Americans base their politics on it.  I like Paris Hilton as well as the next man-indeed might well vote for her as president!- (what the hell, it hardly seems to matter since Obama and Bush are promoting similar policies, may as well have someone pretty doing it.  Which I suppose is the default position of the American people)—but this is no fit basis for you.

You are a political leader, God help us all.  You are interested in politics, you are somewhat knowledgeable about it, so you have the obligation to think straight to lead the American people to promote their real power interests.  Your political stance—I’m a dingbat and I’m proud-does not lead us in the necessary historical direction.

try to get a grip on yourself.  Stop thinking like Paris Hilton (although you can think about her as much as you like, or any other sex goddess that you wish, I am not a prude.)  But it doesn’t matter if its Jen or Evagiline or Brad or any other celeb,  Politics is based on power, and if your analysis is to be relevant to the people, you must analyze power relations for their perusal, rather than Paris Hilton relations.  It will be a challenge for you but you have already progressed some and there is no reason…. well, let’s not get into that. 

Think straight, Tony, the American people are counting on you.

Shenonymous,

My apologies for the mis-spelling of your handle. It was definitely not intended.

I’ll respond later to the rest of your post.

Max Shield, it would be appreciated if you would at least spell my forum name correctly.  Do you have a problem doing that?  It is a silly and strange tactic if you do. 

I do not disagree with you in your sentiments entirely.  I think vigorous debate is proper.  However, taking potshots at someone’s character and calling denigrating names ought to be kept out of serious discussion.  But when a talk is reduced to playground inanity I certainly can give like for like and then some.  A street fighter from way back.  An extensive education does not mean one loses the fever of that kind of skirmish.  Although that is not my preferred manner of “discussion.”

I agree with you that the US has been involved in “literally hundreds” of extended conflicts in which they ought not to have been and have been the cause of miserable presents and futures for millions and thousands of our own soldiers and their families as well.  That is not to say there is never any cause for war.  Though I would submit that is a qualified hesitation to go to war in the event protection of one’s people and of one’s nation is at stake.  But, it is purely defensive.  Anticipation of a defense is very close to what may be called a fine distinction of decision and there needs to be gross evidence that the need for defense is immanent for the implications are great and unending.  How a national security goes about that determination is also in question since the Bush Administration took corpulent advantage of flaws in questionable information.  Why?  Because they were looking for an excuse.  But then so did the John F. Kennedy administration in Vietnam and Clinton in Bosnia.  So let us say I agree with you on this score but also qualified by the need to accumulate accurate information of impending threat.

Also agreed is that the American people must be taught to not trust the MSM at all, in the least.  Since that is their main artery of information, how to accomplish that will not be effective by constantly criticising the MSM to the residents of blogs since these individuals already are primed for such criticism.  If nationwide change is desired, then means of getting to the general public must be employed.  Do you know of ways to do that?

I agree with you, it is a duty of thinking people to ask WHY in matters of war?  And in other signifiant matters of state.  It is more than a duty, it is an imperative. 

We can criticize Obama so early in his administration that he is simply a continuation of what has gone on before but that presupposes he was born out of an egg different from the kind that other Americans were born out of.  I do not think he is much different than any other man of politics.  But because he has a slightly different sensibility, enough to effect changes, I believe he needs to be given the space and time to redefine American values and American ideals abroad.  Change is not cataclysmic as the Bush Administration tried with Iraq.  Change if it is to be permanent and lasting and meaningful will go slowly step by step and inch by inch.  As you say, war, and I say, economics, and peace, and good will, is complex for a number of reasons, not the least of which is completely different world views between the east and the west.

I shall enjoy a cordial discussion with you as there have been a dearth of those I have run across with whom I have been able to interact.  Thank you.

Shenonymousm,

I am interested in civil discussion, but vigorous debate may not always appear “civil” depending on one’s sensibilities.

War is usually complex for a number of reasons, but the fact that the US has been engaged in literally hunders of almost endless conflicts and wars says something tragic profound and damning about the United States as a state amongst hundreds of others.

I think we need to understand our wars, and particularly the ones we are involved in now. We cannot simply use the narrative of this administration or any other and the MSM that supports and helps to shape that narrative. We must be skeptical of it, to think critically, and not simply give the benefit of the doubt in matters of war, the death and maiming of civilians and children are not matters of “doubt”.

It is our duty Shenonymousm as thinking people, as fellow human beings to ask WHY in matters of war. It is just not sufficient to say we are ‘too’ busy to probe our government. The “benefit” of the doubt may apply, if at all, when the cost is nominal. War is not NOMINAL.

For, commentators like Tony to feign some foggish notion fo 70% of the population supporting Obama is to use some generic poll. Perhaps it is a question of guiding principles and letting those principles guide us in our quest for truth and justice rather than the label of a given politician. To say that war is wrong under Bush and than support a slightly different packaging of invasion is just incomprehensible, illogical, and reasonably baseless (note the regular drone bombings under Obama resulting in the deaths of children and civilians).

On Afghanistan, Obama bought the 2004 (Kerry) campaign notion that you had to stay at “war” with “terrorism” and that Bush’s invasion of Iraq was wrong, and that the guns needed to be re-enforeced in Afghanistan. This is a faux foreign policy. But it does seem to have a mix of power-brokers’ interest. Based on a campaign differentiation between two parties committed to war per the military industrial complex and the power it has in the economics and geopolitical gamesmanship that has been in play for many decades.

Obama is part of that. Both Dems and Repubs are of the Military Industrial Complex and the policies that emerge from such a pathological industry.

It is not simply “Obama” the man, but Obama the Commander In Chief and POTUS of the American imperial empire as it has developed over a century.

We shoud establish our principles and never succumb (in my opinion) to the devices of particanship as a means of abdicating our convictions to those principles. To think that this party or person is doing the right thing because I am a “Dem” or I voted for him/her, is to abdicate critical thinking, to abdicate our principles, if we in fact believe that the endless war of agression must end NOW.

Obama is pretty much the same as his predecssors o the last 4 decades, but on the foreign and domestic fronts. W Bush was inarticulate and Cheney represented a stark image which made the policies that both parties own all the more dark. But Cheney was the manifestation of a dark US policy now being followed by Obama (more smoothly for the moment, perhaps).

Has anyone noticed that Obama has said he is going to reduce funding to Iraq and Afghanistan; while adding 17,000 troops to Afghanistan? How can he do that? I find this very interesting; methinks there’s some things going on behind the scene. I’m not paying as much attention to what he says as I am to what he does.

http://www.iauthorbooks.com
http://iauthorbooks.blogspot.com/

Re Folktruther,

“Still, you did get better on Zionism and the 9/11 false flag operation, so maybe there is hope for the American people yet, since they appear to be as dingbatty as you.”

          x x x x x x x x x x x

Folkie,

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Yes, I am proud to join my fellow dingbats, some 70% of ordinary, hardworking Americans, in believing that our country is finally in good hands. After eight years of Bush, watching Obama in action is such a pleasure! I suppose it’s too good to last. Something really bad will probably happen. I’m going to enjoy it while I can.

Hello Max, nice to see you again.  Guess we are on different sides once more.  Oh well, that is what makes the world go around. I would like to have discussion with you as long as we remain civil and respectful. Vietnam was a little bit out of my realm as I was going to school and deep into getting that most difficult of degrees, the final one, and out to the field.  I was aware of much of it but not the nitty gritty as you seem to have been.  I will see if I can find something on the “creep” you talk about.  I don’t trust any politician, so I won’t say you are wrong about Vietnam, or Obama.  On him, I will give him a reasonable amount of time to put his programs into place, all of them!  That Vietnam thing was truly ugly from JFK onward.  I have not forgotten the Buddhists burning themselves in public.  Self-immolation it was called.  We students all had our eyes wide open on those.  I think LBJ got his fatal heart attack from trying to end it with some saving grace. And he never did. 

Wars and reasons for wars get very very messy and there are many hidden parameters that go into how they come about.  Things the public will never ever know.  I totally disliked Bush, but even there it was more complex than everyone is willing to admit.  I hate it that he went into Iraq and hate it that he had Hussein hanged.  I think that will have to go down in history as one of the more heinous acts against a sovereign government ever, not to mention the millions of Iraqis killed and millions more displaced.  Yes, to mention them!  They are just as important as Hussein was, even more!  Just because it is calming down and we are winding down there does not mean we must forget the travesty.  We cannot let history forget it, just like we cannot let history let us forget Vietnam, and a few other places, like Bosnia.  I’m sure you have a list.  Men do horrible things to other men.  Are we about to do it again in Afghanistan?

Shenonymousm

Suggest you read up on Vietnam. The creep of devastation, LBJ 1964. So, Obama is escalating in Afghanistan and Pakistan with no real end in sight in terms of US occupation of Iraq. Those are multiple quagmires. Getting out means not moving forward with escalation thinking it will get you out.

You can rationalize Obama all you want, it’s the same excuse the right gave Bush…

omniadeo, you speak rhetorically.  You seem to think it is easy for America to withdraw from all conflict.  While I agree the military money would be better spent here at home and helping to keep the stimulus package solvent, it is probably not as easy as one might imagine who is not in that part of government that decides those kinds of things.  We need our watch dogs but often watch dogs don’t know how best to run a country, else they would be in politics. Ergo the need for watchdogs. And just look at the trouble Kucinich has as an active watchdog. 

I do not share the anarchist view although I do believe in self-government, by representation or by direct vote, whichever works for the majority of the people most advantageously.  Looks like there is dialogue going on about universal health care again.  That is a step in the right direction.  I stand with Obama and do not apologize for our form of government.  I do however apologize for who runs the government.  I think he ought to be given a year to implement his promises.

FT,

You don’t understand. The issue is not whether we send our unique mixture of psychopaths and brainwashed idealistic pigeons to kill and die on foreign soil for the Empire and its Zionist Mini-me. The issue is whether we can avoid looking like the pinched, selfish white assholes we really are while we do it.

As long as we radiate sincere, compassionate color-neutral royal serenity while we spread carnage in all directions, everything will be okay.

I mean if you were a kid getting maimed in Afghanistan and losing your parents, who would you want to feel responsible? Sneering obvious villains like Bush and Cheney, or a photogenic demi-God like President O?

oops, did I say ITW?  Well ITW get in line for you will no doubt be called a dingbat too!  As for Wicher, hmmm, I reserve the right to withhold my opinion until later, given a certain amount of waffling that has gone one and not even a high level dingbat’s opinion can tip the balance of an lead-minded insane contingent.  Some of the anti-American, anti-Israel people are insane some of the time, some of theanti-American, anti-Israel people are insane all of the time, and all of the anti-American, anti-Israel people are just insane all of the time.  Let the nitwit Folktruther, uh now dubbed Folkliar, be their guide.

The nitwit Folkliar keeps up his inanities.  What shall we do?  Guess we have to tolerate the baby whiner.  Ho hum and ho hum again. 

ITW be proud of your species of dingbatism.  I am!  What can you do when there is a nitwit about?  Just ignore it and move on to your further insightful points.  Course you don’t need anyone to tell you that.  You are one of the even-minded bright lights on the forums.

In addition to the oil of Central Asia, I’d say the American Elites are “staying the course” in Afghanistan because of national pride, stiff-neckedness and (in the Demos’ case) a determination not to let Afghanistan be used as a political football by the Repubs (remember how the Repubs would say, “Who lost China?” and “Who lost Vietnam?” and “the Demos are weak on national defense; they’re in fact too chicken-livered to fight”?).

Tony- you are as big a dingbat as Shenonymous and you don’t have the Educated to justify your mental imbalance.  While it is true that you can tell by looking on CPAN that Obama is “looking great”. how can you tell that he is doing a fantastic job?  Unless of course you define the job as looking Presidential, which no doublt many Americans do.

However you are right about the Great Spirit sending him in our hour of need.  Unfortunately it was the Zionist Great Spirit that weaned him away from Rev Wright and community organizing and installed him in the presidency to Coninue the bipartisan and Zionist War on Terrorism that the Great Spirit mandated.

Still, you did get better on Zionism and the 9/11 false flag operation, so maybe there is hope for the American people yet, since they appear to be as dingbatty as you.

Obama, Bush III, as warmonger. From the NYT:

“February 22, 2009
U.S. Concedes Afghan Attack Mainly Killed Civilians
By RICHARD A. OPPEL Jr.
KABUL, Afghanistan — An airstrike by the United States-led military coalition killed 13 civilians and 3 militants last Tuesday in western Afghanistan, not “up to 15 militants” as was initially claimed by American forces, military officials here said Saturday.

The civilians killed included three children, six women and four men in the Gozara district of Herat Province, in addition to three people suspected of being Taliban fighters, according to an aide to the provincial governor.

American and NATO forces have come under increasing criticism from Afghans and political leaders in Kabul for the soaring number of civilians killed by airstrikes and fighting between Taliban and American-led forces.

The United Nations says civilian deaths rose nearly 40 percent last year to 2,118, the most in any year since the 2001 invasion that drove the Taliban from power. Most of the casualties last year were caused by the Taliban and other insurgents, the United Nations found, but 828 deaths were attributed to American, NATO and Afghan forces, mostly from airstrikes and village raids. Afghan officials fear the numbers will rise as more American troops deploy to the country.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/22/world/asia/22afghan.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss&pagewanted=all

By Verne Arnold, February 21 at 4:31 am #
> You seem to be the only one who gets it. It’s all about energy. We don’t give diddly squat about the Taliban; unless they keep us from the energy supplies we think are our right to own!

Tariq Ali suggests that it is about permanent military bases in Afghanistan. And that China won’t stand for it. @ 8:40 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ1TX-QwtGo

Hard to know if Afghanistan is about oil AS WELL AS permanent bases. Presently, with the Taliban, any pipelines are impossible. Which would seem to rule oil out.

Nafeez Ahmed on Algeria / Sahel is more convincing, IMO -

http://nafeez.blogspot.com/

Re TAO Walker, February 20 at 3:14 pm

Walker,

I very much share your view. I don’t think the power and control of this gang of sociopaths is absolute, however. They cannot survive exposure to public scrutiny. Most people are basically good, just misinformed and confused. Thanks to the way the Internet connects us all together as individuals, we the people of the world can compare notes and begin to get clear on who the real enemy is. The Internet has also greatly democratized the electoral process by allowing political campaigns to run on millions of small donations. I believe this has resulted in an amazing phenomenon: the election of a president, Barack Obama, who is neither one of your few thousand sociopaths nor even one of your 150 million coopted managers, but an honest, highly intelligent tremendously competent and good man. Every time I turn on CSPAN there he is, looking great, doing a fantastic job, and I just thank my lucky stars that the Great Spirit sent him in our hour of need. 

I also
I think they overreached when they engineered 9/11, and

What do Afghanistan and Pakistan have that so disturbs Americans that Washington will fight a new war because of it? The answer is that they harbor the prophets of a new religion, which says that the world can be saved if everyone is converted to Islam and scrupulously follows its laws, as interpreted by certain Pashtun tribal groups in Pakistan’s North West Frontier Territory. This seems to be what Washington fears. But why?

  x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x

Because this new religion is being fostered by the world’s intelligence agencies, by CIA and ISI and Mossad working for an international miltary industrial complex so there will be a “war on terror” to fight and they will all get big budgets and lots of power and military toys which which to rule the world.

Don’t worry dr wu, I won’t listen to you.  Ahs listens to m’own eccentric and capricious heart! If you think the world does not need Muslims, well that is your opinion.  What is all your sloganisms about anyway?  Kind of empty talk isn’t it?  Are you trying to sound sagacious?

Far as I am concerned Muslims have just as much a right to their own beliefs as anybody.  It is the relentless Isalmists that are the specters on the modern scene.  Why it might shock you to learn I have several Muslim friends and we work together.  They do not consider me a bigot and they happen to love America.  They have good jobs and a decent life. 

You continue to be soooo boring Folktruther and tritely repetitive also can be described as insipid and vapid, uninteresting and without stimulating qualities.  Fact is I happily have not been in the state of Texass for sometime now.  Got out of there in the nick of time.  But it served its purpose. Now I am enjoying the macadam of Highway 95 and such places as Thornburg to Lorton.  Yesseriee, just a hop skip and a jump to the Chesapeake, so move over PH, I brought my fishing rods and my Coronas.  This country is so much more beautiful.  More expensive but then it was a good trade.  My cat loves it too!

Shenonymous- you are staying out in the hot Texas sun too long without your Stetson.  Afghanistan now supplies the world with 93% of its opinum, about 8 thousand tons. This was not grown by the fiendish Muslim Taliban, which had eradicated opium growth. It was grown under US occupation.  And the opium was delivered in US military planes to be processed into heroin in Turkey.  Until afganistan, under US occupation, developed its own labs.  Opium is also being grown in Iraq now, with its own labs.

It was grown and processed in Vietman under the good Christian CIA and military, adicting about one tenth of US servicemen.  Under the US Karzai regime, about 60% of Helmond province policeman use, and deal, the drug.  Cocaine has also increased in Columbia under US supervision, and the Sinoloa corredor through Mexico has resulted in nearly ten thousand deaths in Mexico last year.

The chief supporter of drugs is the US, not only for the immense profits, but as a means of social control.  The same reason Britain fought two opium wars in the 19th century.

You’ve always been a dingbat but not as far as I knew, a bigoted and racist dingbat.  I suppose its the Texas climate.

Note to Shenonymous,
No need to listen to me. Go ahead and nuke a billion Muslims.
(new slogan—taken from old American slogan   “the only good Indian is a dead one” so, now we have—“the only good Muslim is a dead one.” Not to forget the classic cold war slogan—“better dead than red.” Or, after the old USSR and USA nuke each other and the US has 2 living people and the
USSR has one—we won!

Face it, Shenonymous, a world without Muslims is not in the cards—deal with it!

What do Afghanistan and Pakistan have that so disturbs Americans that Washington will fight a new war because of it? The answer is that they harbor the prophets of a new religion, which says that the world can be saved if everyone is converted to Islam and scrupulously follows its laws, as interpreted by certain Pashtun tribal groups in Pakistan’s North West Frontier Territory. This seems to be what Washington fears. But why?
Does anybody really dare to answer that question? Is it really rhetorical to the writer of the article having been placed as the last comment? It is time the world woke up? The intentional somnambulism has gone on much to long on both sides of the hatreds, don’t you think? Is it diddly squat? It is a pimple among the other acne pustules that is driving the conflicts in the world. Some of these conflicts are theocratically based and to ignore that fact is to not watch your back while you are punching others in the face. One has to cleanse the face from ALL the pimples to find real peace.

Also am I the first to say the it is not enough to simply report that the US “concedes Afghan attack mainly killed civilians?” NYT Richard A. Oppel article, Feb 21. “five days before the deadly episode in Herat, Afghan and American commanders had hailed a new agreement that called for Afghan officials to have more input into the “planning and execution of counterterrorism missions” in hopes of minimizing civilian casualties.” Minimize civilian casaulties! But that did not happen did it?  Guess that is all we can hope for in a world that cannot control itself. hopes of minimizing civilian casualties.

Asking a rhetorical question: Suppose the Taliban takes over Afhganistan, and installs their Islamic theocratic government, what can be expected politically? Economically it is not a viable country without its opium trade and those fields are being rooted out. Right? Well maybe not. If the Taliban takes over, do you think these farms will be destroyed?  Okay, allow the opium crops to thrive once again. So what, right? We are too premature to worry about that problem. Cross the Rubicon when we come to it.  It is irrational to suppose the money from drug trafficking won’t go towards arming terrorists groups or Afghanistan itself, right?

So Dr. Wu you want everyone to chill out on the threat of Islamism. Americans should ignore the rhetoric coming from the Taliban and Iran and Hamas and Hezbollah and Gama’a al-Islamiya, Okay. I bow to your wisdom.

Enjoy the following story.
Reuters
* Sept 29, 08 Ten days of hellish uncertainty for victims & families alike ended today for 11 European tourists + 8 Egyptians abducted in the Egyptian desert on Sept 19, when government operatives swarmed over their captors, winning their freedom. All 19 hostages were freed unharmed in a bold rescue operation in which several of their terrorist kidnappers were killed in a fierce struggle with authorities, Egyptian officials said. The liberated hostages arrived in Cairo aboard an Egyptian military plane, some of them grinning, some holding bunches of flowers, to be greeted by Egyptian military and government officials and foreign diplomats. 19 hostages were freed… Later conflicting news accounts stated some hostages hinted they were simply let go, without any firefight, just randomly by the terrorists who feared government troops closing in. No ransom was paid from any of the hostage countries. Tourism Minister Zoheir Garrana assured international reporters. “We will coordinate with security agencies to make sure this doesn’t happen again.” Masked gunmen seized the 5 Germans, 5 Italians, 1 Romanian and 8 Egyptians on Sept. 19 from a desert safari tour conducted near Egypt’s southwestern borders with Sudan and Libya. The kidnappers then rushed their captives southward into harsh desert terrain in Sudan and demanded a multi-million-dollar ransom.

Afghanistan is not Iraq; Pakistan is neither.  Obama is escalating the war there in spite of running his campaign on our exiting from Iraq.  It should be remembered that the Afghanese kicked Soviet ass in a ten year war with Soviet casualties mounting daily .  Their people no longer supported the war so the Soviets were forced to leave.  If we get into a war with Pakistan we’re in unchartered waters considering that Pakistan is a nuclear power and militarilly very strong.  Obama had best think this through very carefully.

Aside from the gas lines, oil routes, the India-Pakistan battles, there is one more thing that keeps our rich-ruled country fighting in Afghanistan.

To wit:

Ah ,finally figured it out—Obama can’t lose Afghanistan -it’s like losing China—lose Afghanistan and you might, well,  lose the election.

So Obama will hang in their for 4 or 8 years and hand it off to the president. Death and destruction don’t count, winning elections do.

Don’t let the rich ruin/run our country!

In a NYTimes front page article teday the subtext of the piece is that Obama has escalated the war in Pakistan to protecting the Pakistani power system from its own people. The Pakistani people strongly oppose its present govenment and even more strongly the US, which the people feel the Pak government supports.  Every time the US bombs the homes of the Pakistani, the hatred grows stonger.

The scenario which is developing appears to lead to puting in American troops to complement the three air bases already in Pakistan, if, indeed, the American troops are not already there.  This is the way the Vietnam war started, with the Dem president forced to put in troops to bolster the planes, trainers and CIA.

Pakistan however has a hundred and eighty million people, six times that of Afghanistan or Iraq.  Obama is not only continuing Bushite poliices, he is escalating them far beyond their orignal bounds.

The premier of Pakistan is a convicted thief who has served many years in prison for stealing.  He is a Pakistani neoliberal, where they still put thieves of large amounts of money in prison before makling them premier.  The US is defending him against his own people, in the traditional way that US imperialism defends despots under the guise of Freedom and Democracy.

If the scenario goes as is likely, the surporse free prediction is that at the end of Obama’s first term the US will be at war to a greater extent than at the end of Bush’s term.  Invading Pakistan is much worse than invading Iraq, since the fighting will require more blood and money.

Obama is now forming a public relations unit to unite progressives to support the war.  This will most like split Progressives into Dem DUPEs and Dem opposition.  This Dem opposition must be united to be effective, and thus must agree on a general ideology to develop a leadership cadre.  It must oppose not only imperialist war, but neoliberalism and a militarized police state.

By Bob In Pacifica, February 19 at 9:23 pm;

You seem to be the only one who gets it. It’s all about energy. We don’t give diddly squat about the Taliban; unless they keep us from the energy supplies we think are our right to own! This ruse about national security to prevent attacks against the U.S. is pure crap. We’ve built our whole national security policy around energy and totally controlling it. As long as we remain addicted to foreign oil and gas, we’re the hand-maidens of war and imperialism; it’s really that simple.

“This seems to be what Washington fears. But why?” 

Lack of imagination.

PFAFF IS PLAYING THE FOOL

He is not a Neocon. But he knows very well that the following is a LIE.

> What do Afghanistan and Pakistan have that so disturbs Americans that Washington will fight a new war because of it? The answer is that they harbor the prophets of a new religion, which says that the world can be saved if everyone is converted to Islam and scrupulously follows its laws, as interpreted by certain Pashtun tribal groups in Pakistan’s North West Frontier Territory. This seems to be what Washington fears. But why?

Nafeez Ahmed knows quite well what is going on - it is the Algeria Scenario, transferred to Afghanistan. ‘The Great Game on crystal meth, played at warp speed’.

Introduce the terrorists. Then introduce yourself as the saviour who eliminates them. Oh, and while you are there, clean up on oil, gas and geopolitical strategic goals.

Nafeez Ahmed - http://nafeez.blogspot.com/

What geopolitical strategic goals? These goals - Tariq Ali with Michael Parenti and Peter Dale Scott - @ 8:40 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ1TX-QwtGo

TAO writes:

“William Pfaff maybe means to be ironic here, in wondering out-loud whether even “extremist” religion could have anything really to do with the U.S. military occupation of Afghanistan.”

~~~

I’m pretty sure you hit it here with Pfaff TAO. There seems to be a consensus on it as well. He’s being ironic.

As for the Taliban giving up al-Qaeda or even bin Laden, they offered to do that long ago, as even Sepharad has acknowledged, except that the acknowledgment is misleading, because it wasn’t for MONEY -at least not initially-.

INITIALLY, Dick Bush made a fake demand that they hand over bin Laden and Assoc. The powers in control at the time, (Afghan government, for what it was - the Taliban) said they would if Dick Bush could produce some evidence that bin Laden was responsible for the events of 9/11. BUT…the Dick Bush government NEVER COULD!!!AND…they haven’t since!!

Additionally, (and despite that fake demand to turn him over)the US has never “officially” accused bin Laden for those terrorist actions. His ‘most wanted’ poster doesn’t even mention 9/11.

So, if the US military is in Afghanistan just to track down terrorists, it’s based on the fairy tale propaganda that they were ever responsible for 9/11 to begin with, and that they are still plotting further actions against the world from that very spot.

Obama’s Afghanistan thrust, aka Bush II policy, will fail—The rationale for staying in Afghanistan is wacko-we’re there to prevent them from attacking here. How many times have I heard this: From Russia, to China, Korea, to Vietnam, to Nicaragua, and on and on—same old story. Everybody is waiting to attack us—these evildoers will slip a bomb in with their underwear in their luggage and leave it in a Times square bus stop—and BLAM—we’re done for.

Enough! No one will attack us—just stop invading and droning their countries.

Obama claims he wants to be friends with the Muslim world and yet sends drones to kill then in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

I’m no expert but I can tell you the Obama plan of reinvading Afghanistan is DOA. Just ask the master of foreign armies dying in that country, Rudyard Kipling.

The place is still part of the “Great Game”—countries near and far want a piece of the action—energy routes, geopolitical control. So India fights Pakistan (solve this one and the whole region will quiet down!), the Taliban/Pushtuns fight Russia, USA, Iran. It gets so mixed up.

The place needs a grand bargain—make it neutral like Switzerland, offer a little something to everyone.

But whatever you do, don’t send foreign soldiers there!

It might be helpful here to differentiate carefully between obviously insane beliefs and behavior of the “global” plutoligarchy, with their end-game war-to-the-death on everyone and everything NOT their “selfs”, and the CONtrived violent tendencies of various “huddled masses” misled and CONfused by our tormentors and their two-legged tools….again, the plutoligarchy and their papered professional retainers everywhere.  William Pfaff maybe means to be ironic here, in wondering out-loud whether even “extremist” religion could have anything really to do with the U.S. military occupation of Afghanistan.

As others have suggested here, that “rationalization” works well to “manage” and exploit captive populations of already officially frightened “patriots” or “believers” or “consumers.”  It just doesn’t explain what is actually taking-place “on-the-ground.”

Right now the lives of 98% of domesticated Humans are being ruinously CONtrolled by a few thousand CONgenital sociopaths operating through maybe 150 million coopted “managers.”  The longer their captives can be CONned into trying to “make-sense” of their CONdition, the more “time” their oppressors have to try and engineer an escape, for their own selfs and some of their pets’and servants’....from the hell-on-earth they have every intention of leaving behind them.

That’s “the situation,” in Asia and everywhere (except Indian Country), in a NUTsHELL….pardon the awful pun.

HokaHey!

ltg
tuocha

“...every once in a while [Pfaff] plays the innocent; it isn’t amusing…”

Couldn’t agree more. Pfaff’s “innocent” rhetorical questions make him look like a fool. His straight faced assertion of WashDC’s “fear” of the fundamentalist Islamic movement (which, he fails to mention, WashDC has been funding directly and indirectly through the Saudi’s for over 30 years) is absurd.

I don’t quite agree with Gulam’s assertion that our presence has nothing to do with Asia, but it’s a quibble, because the rest of what he says is spot on.

In the insane minds of the geopolitical chess players it does have to do with containing China (which almost everyone fails to mention has a common border and a military alliance with Pakistan, and is very popular with the Pakistani people, because they actually help the locals there.)

As I said on Politico’s Arena yesterday, Buy the Opium at above market from the growers and burn it on sight. Thus showing some good will to the people and cutting the cash flow to the insurgents. Bringing schools, water and roads to Afghanistan with a sustainable and profitable System of agriculture along with a Quality jobs program to Pakistan Would surround the Mountainous tribal area with Prosperity and hope for a “normal” future thus syphoning off the young soldiers as most are in it for the Money. Secretary Holbrook has announced “We Can Not Win” this war through Military intervention. AT LAST some COMMON SENSE !!!  We Need to eliminate RELIGION from the discussion !

Islamists may wish to convert the world to Islam, but it will not work with self-sacrifices who blow up not only themselves, but all those about them. These kind of acts are the result of spiritual demoralization and not “religion”. But if it were a question of religion, then the next question is whence such demoralization of religion?

I dare say that the demoralization has its beginnings in liberal democracy, which has its beginnings in the arrival on the stage of the world of liberal princes—about a thousand years ago. The princes killed or immobilized not only all sacrificial kings, but they also killed native religious (wandering) teachers, still in evidence in India and known there as sadhus. These teachers came with thousands of years of traditions behind them. Among such teachers were John (the name derives from “gens”, re herder, shepherd, goatherd), Jesus, Johanmed, and Jannukah. A fundamental teaching of these “shepherds of men” was that one had to lead by example and one could not lead by example unless one was willing to take on the burden of self-sacrifice. After the princes wiped out the spiritual base of the natives in Europe in the crusades, they sent the likes of John, Jesus, Johanmad, and Jannukah on to heaven, where they—as dead men may—sit on their hands to this day.

Mr. Pfaff, you’re way off about the causes of the war in Afghanistan. Indeed, you seem lost.

Pay the Taliban to offer up Al Quaeda.  The money will be the main inducement, but we can point out that Al Quaeda betrayed their hosts hospitality my murdering civilians from their refuge.  Then, let the Afghanis do whatever they want with their country, as long as they don’t go back to sheltering people who attacked us.

Could be cheap and effective.

The United States has been butchering smaller browner people since 1787.  It is, so far as I can see, our only purpose on earth.  To give it up now would say that our “Manifest Destiny” is moonshine.  We murder Afghans because it makes us feel all testerony.

This essay feels unfinished….is there supposed to be a second page?

Marine General Smedley Butler said it best: “War is a racket.”
Sure, fear is irrational and fear is a propaganda tool of limited effectiveness. But there are two factors that impel this war. One is: power abhors a vacuum. Two: corporations are controlling US foreign policy. Obama has the olympian task of convincing these sharks that a diet is in their best interests. The US war machine is known as the ‘Iron Triangle’ because the military, industry and Congress are practically impossible to control, curtail, or oppose. When war is seen as counterproductive to long-term interests, conflicts of interest will be sorted out by more pragmatic devices. People’s lives have to be valued worldwide, where life is now cheap. When life becomes precious, society’s well-being will become the standard of policy. It seems to me that in order for that to happen, it must be threatened. The classic psych trick: unify opposites by common threat. As our eco-life support perishes and pesticides and herbicides are seen as making it worse, and sea levels rise in DC, London, Miami, and Shanghai and Houston, life will be seen to be hanging by a thread, which it is. Growing understanding of our situation will re-define economy as eco-nomy. Life awareness. A perhaps more rational fear, necessitating a unified response.

1 of 2
•  “What do Afghanistan and Pakistan have that so disturbs Americans that Washington will fight a new war because of it? The answer is that they harbor the prophets of a new religion, which says that the world can be saved if everyone is converted to Islam, and scrupulously follows its laws, as interpreted by certain Pashtun tribal groups in Pakistan’s North West Frontier Territory. This seems to be what Washington fears. But why?”

I dunno Will. Do you really think that Washington has these fears? I mean, this sounds like Washington and the US population is afraid of a new religion; in fact more afraid of a ‘new religion’ ‘reaching’ us than nuclear weapons. If you say that the nukes can’t reach us, (or Israel for that matter, since that is ALWAYS a first consideration in anything Washington does or doesn’t do) then SURELY we don’t think that Obama believes that a new religion can come over here and take us out/over and convert us all to practitioners of Extremist Islam. (and of course you’re talking about here – EXTREMIST Islam.)
I don’t know. It just sounds kinda hokey to be in fear of a bunch of religious extremists in Central Asia if we’re not scared of the 40 million Near End Christians, right HERE, who are anxiously waiting on the world to end, and even trying to speed it up.
HOWEVER, there’s no doubt in my mind that a significant portion of the US population HAS been affected/brainwashed by the Politics of Fear, which has been on-going campaign for at least the past 7 years, though clearly it was planned long before that, so Islamophobia still holds a lot of sway. Somehow though, I still don’t think our current President is so afflicted.

So, I don’t think that’s what Obama himself is particularly ‘afraid’ of them, (Pashtuns who guarantee to save the world by following Islamic Law as interpreted by them) or at least not for that reason. but this is certainly a time for some serious mulling on his part, about why we really ARE there. For now, it’s a continuation of a very bad idea, and it makes little sense to maintain a presence in Afghanistan or Pakistan.

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The globalists will disagree however. They see a need for the protection of individuals from the social/domestic ‘crimes’ that they interpret as occurring in the areas where such theocratic social structures exist. That’s how we’ve come to recognize and incorporate Conventions like The Convention for the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women, and other similar conventions that recognize the human rights of world citizens at the individual level.

Needless to say, these kinds of changes in the cultural/social/traditional of some geographical groups are simply NOT accepted, and WON’T be accepted, and there’s nothing in the treaties that FORCES any Nation State to accept them. 

That doesn’t (or hasn’t) prevented a global interest in looking for ways to ‘protect’ civilian populations from the abuses of their own governments, regardless of the ideological source of the abuse. No doubt there have been multiple occasions of their over zealousness in attempting to change the political or social ideology of any group of people if they don’t want or NEED to ‘change’.

But these concerns are addressed by the globalists, primarily in the form of Western Based and/or Sponsored NGO’s. NON-governmental Organizations are supposed to be exactly that – NOT connected to the government. So we *don’t* USE US military resources for the purposes of protecting a civilian population from the real or perceived abuses of its government.

So, that’s not a reason to be there either. Obama will need to keep mulling this.

That Afghanistan is a narco state is also problematic, but the same adage applies. Let the International Body deal with it. That’s what they’re for.
If Obama just keeps mulling, (hopefully all of these issues) I’m sure he’ll figure it out. He certainly knows that he inherited an unprecedented pile of shit that covers nearly ever surface of every plane. It shouldn’t take long for him to figure out that Afghanistan is clearly in the pile, and can’t be repaired or recovered the way we’re hoping to do with the economy.

We are not in Afghanistan for a reason that has anything to do with Asia. It is merely the latest place in which the military-industrial monster is holding its current feeding frenzy. Nobody who knew Afghanistan well has ever been asked their opinion about any of this. All the “experts” are career CIA folks who have been playing political scientist or archaeologist for decades. I was with the UN in Afghanistan in 2000, and I traveled all over the south with a Taliban advisor, photographing minefields and mine victims. Most people were pleased with Taliban rule, to a point. The US Embassy and Consulates simply got the message one day from on high to turn on the Taliban and make the Pashtun the fall guy. The Clintons wanted to use the Afghans as a whipping boy to advance their position with feminists, and UNICAL wanted a pipeline that the Taliban were refusing. There is no legitimate reason why the US are in Afghanistan, and everyone with a any knowledge of history or of Afghanistan knows this. The sentences at Nuremberg were handed down for starting the war intentionally and for fraudulent reasons, and for that alone.

Pfaff is one of the better mainstream truthers but every once in a while he plays the innocent; it isn’t amusing.  He knows damn well that Obama doesn’t want to lose Afghanistan before his next election.  And that losing in Afghanistan will be a serous defeat for the US and Nato.

But I suppose he wants to get us out and so the focus on ‘irrational fear.’  And it is true that this is the major concern of the faux-naif American people.