This is what Physicians for a Natl Health Plan say about it, as of today. (Baucus is preventing single payer from being brought to the floor—please tell him to stop blocking action, as the Dems have been reminding GOP to do…))

“Sen. Max Baucus (D-Mont.) recently unveiled his proposals for incremental health reform, which largely mirror the ideas of President-elect Barack Obama and Sen. Edward Kennedy (D-Mass.).

However well-intentioned, the Obama/Baucus/Kennedy approaches share a fatal flaw: they preserve a central role for the private health insurance industry.

To varying degrees, they would mandate that everyone buy private health insurance - the private insurance that is failing us today. Some of these plans offer a Medicare-like, public option that people could buy into, but experience with Medicare shows that the private plans refuse to compete on a level playing field. They cherry-pick healthier patients and insist on more than their share of payment.

Experience with mandate-based plans in Washington state (1993), Oregon (1992) and Massachusetts (1988 and today) shows that they simply don’t work, achieving neither universal health care nor cost containment.

As long as we rely on private health insurers, universal coverage will be unaffordable. These companies generate immense overhead costs and force doctors and hospitals to spend heavily on billing and paperwork.

Administration consumes about one-third of every health care dollar in the U.S. By contrast, in countries with nonprofit national health insurance, administrative costs consume only half that amount.

There is a cure, however. Eliminating the private insurance industry would save $400 billion annually in administrative costs, enough to ensure that everyone is covered and to eliminate all co-pays and deductibles.

At this critical juncture, a single-payer plan is the only medically, morally and fiscally responsible path to take.”

“ANY” health care for all is not better than nothing—if you do not have crappy “poverty care”, you can apply for indigent care or charity care. I swear to gawd, it was better before i had an HMO, at least Cleveland Clinic would allow my dr to apply to cover it under indigent or charity. Now, i have to see who my HMO picks—the one with 2 mos experience, not my former surgeon.

We need to do the right thing—not just anything.If it fails, the GOP and Blue Dogs will be all over it like flies on sh*t. The members of Congress who want a “free mkt solution” have had their day ( I mean 20 yrs) . They need to accept defeat. I DO want this plan to succeed. It obviously can, as every civilized country on earth does it. The governor or Massachusetts says that the Mass care enacted by Romney is too expensive…

All the flailing about of the so-called “fiscally conservative” should not fool Dems into thinking that they do not have the power to enact about any program they the people will back them on…lets let them know what the people want, as if they dint already know.

Even if some people dont want it, we simply cannot afford the death insurance industry anymore…

Cute.

But the focal point in today’s news was that Bernanke reiterated no real plan to get our jobs back. Because of that we will no longer purchase. Nothing will really get better.

Lets have a reality check here for a minute…  Where did the jobs go?

Manufacturing jobs went offshore in an attempt to lower wages and break unions.

Local construction jobs went to undocumented workers, also lowering wages.

Computer software and advertising jobs went to HB1 visas. Many of us even saw workers “shipped in” from India with “special” pay arrangements in our very own companies. Again, low, substandard pay, many visas.

Customer service jobs went completely offshore. I don’t have to remind anyone who answers the phone when you call customer service from banking to phone service to internet service to credit cards.

Dentists and doctors and those jobs disappeared because insurance does not cover most dental and important medical procedures.

Local businesses fizzled because people have no jobs.

Garment and shoe manufacturing jobs went offshore to real sweatshops and slaveshops.

Farming and food production jobs went to undocumented workers and, in some cases, slave situations (ex., Imokalee, FL).

Food and hospitality service jobs went to undocumented workers, lowering wages for the documented also.

The “U.S.” auto makers went to Canada and Mexico for workers, where almost all workers are covered by health insurance already. This is well documented.

Other large corporations also went to Canada and Mexico where most citizens are already covered by health insurance, enabling them to cut in half their salary output.

We could go on and on but the irony here is obvious. In efforts to save money and maximize stock prices companies went elsewhere for labor. But all these industries still need Americans to buy their products. Duh. Shoot self in foot.

Where’s the plan to bring back jobs? Apparently, Bernanke is not concerned about that.

Obama panders too much to the wealthy elite—look at his appointments and half-measures.. He buys into their delusions and denials rather than facing reality. Sooner or later, that great taskmaker of reality—that exposes the fraud of WMD or the legacy of torture, will be knocking at Obama’s door. And he will fall on his face with all of his superficial, smooth civility when what we needed was a populist firebrand to tell it like it is. He fancies himself Lincolnian—but when it comes to class injustice and division he is not on our side of the divide. We don’t need no damn unity, we need outrage and maybe Obama, in seeking the role, didn’t realize he would be miscast as Roosevelt in his expectation to play Lincoln.

By Snowie, February 20 at 8:25 pm #
Cyrena
Very good info on where healthcare for all is going. I do hope something is done soon. I don’t have any healthcare because my job was eliminated. In 1992 I voted for Clinton because I believed he would do something for ALL people for healthcare. At that time I had coverage but felt it was important for all, so important that I voted for Clinton. That fizzled out fast, and we all know how his terms turned out.

So, I hope Obama does something. Any coverage for all is better than nothing. It really should not be left to employers. This encourages them to pay less or not have coverage at all.
~*~
Well Snowie, you hit the target on what the situation is for so many, (used to have healthcare, and now they don’t, added to those that never have). I failed in my own response however, to point to the obvious reasons why we haven’t had this ‘healthcare for all’ – all along. This system can only be supported by TAXES and member contributions, which the conservative faction of the population simply refuses to take part in. That’s why Clinton’s proposed program was scrapped, and it’s the same thing that has prevented us from having a system like that of other progressive nations, The Netherlands/Sweden, France, Canada, etc, etc. It’s why there has been such an incredible hatred by prompted by a stimulus bill intended to (hopefully) rescue us.

The bottom line is that the conservative faction of the population doesn’t believe that the public (meaning the taxpayers) should have to be responsible for contributing to the care of others – INCLUDING other tax payers. They don’t want what they consider to be THEIR money being used for a ‘common’ good (healthcare for ALL people) and so they have clearly prevented that from happening, because such a system has to be funded by SOMEBODY.

This is the same reason why you’re so correct in saying that it shouldn’t be left up to the employers. The more they have to pay for it, the more they will take it off of somewhere specifically the pay or the working conditions. So, for those employers who are still offering a semblance of healthcare coverage to their employees, they are cutting the salaries. (That has been happening since the mid 1980’s at least at my own former corporate slave plantation..of course since then, they’ve also cut at least half of the employees as well, while still INCREASING the profit and size of their operation, to then pay the dividends to the stockholders, who you can believe also have healthcare coverage from the private sector.)

So we’ll see if Obama can run the obstacle course of the conservatives and the corporate profit mongers (The Insurance and Pharmaceutical Industries) and find a way to fund healthcare coverage for all.

Meantime, I just ran across two excellent pieces (one lead to the other) that explain these obstacles..

Ending the Hidden Agenda Behind Tax Cuts
Tuesday 17 February 2009
by: Joe Brewer, t r u t h o u t | Perspective

Something as simple as a metaphor can mean the difference between shared prosperity and
widespread suffering.

It’s time to tell the truth about tax cuts. This phrase dominates political discourse and is coughed out every time a conservative public figure opens his mouth. It is treated like the basis of sound reasoning, yet no one points out what should be obvious that “tax relief” and “tax cuts” are just code words for destroying the capacity of government to serve the public.

http://www.truthout.org/021709R

2 of 2

Then this one; same author.

Calling Out the Conservative Lies on Stimulus
Published on Thursday, February 5, 2009 by CommonDreams.org

by Joe Brewer

“We are in the midst of a major ideological battle. If progressives win, we’ll have more jobs, better schools, and the first real steps toward a sustainable economy in our history. (I would add a sustainable health care system as well).

Conservatives in Congress don’t want this to happen. Why? Is it that they hate Americans and want us to suffer? Maybe not. But they definitely don’t want Americans to experience a government that works. This would undermine decades of propaganda summed up in Reagan’s famous line, “Government is the problem!”

This has to do with worldviews and modes of thought, something I’ve studied extensively in recent years. Conservatives are trying to advance their “common sense” just as they have done with gusto since establishing their network of think tanks and media outlets in the mid-70’s. What is their common sense? Simple:

The world is filled with individuals whose worth is determined solely by their ability to be disciplined and work hard. These individuals go out into the world and compete for just rewards if they prove themselves stronger and more capable than their competitors. By implication, anyone who does not win in this “free market” of competition is lazy and weak. Such people deserve their lot in life. And, of course, this natural order only works without disruption by a nanny state (the government) that gives hand outs to the undeserving.”

Full article at the link:

http://www.commondreams.org/print/37770

Your faith in Obama is touching, altho somewhat incomprehensible. This lying
two-faced toad, multimilionaire darling of the 1%, is not facing any tough times.
He is living it up with the rest of his ilk; African-American notwithstanding, he
could be easily mistaken for a neo fascist capitalist, or neocon for short.
He will be remembered as a close runner-up to GW Bush, for his lame and useless
policies. Americans will be standing in bread lines before his first term ends.
Endless bloody wars in his name will stand next to Iraq and Afghanistan, on his
watch. Your funky opinions are moot, and your writing is substandard even
for Truthdig.

States are reacting to Federal overreach. Important unreported information.

http://www.republicbroadcasting.org/index.php?cmd=news.article&articleID=3422

Why we need to nationalize the banks, and a petition to sign: Thanks!

http://www.commondreams.org/further/president-obama-its-time-nationalize-insolvent-banks#comment-1144101

Cyrena
Very good info on where healthcare for all is going. I do hope something is done soon. I don’t have any healthcare because my job was eliminated. In 1992 I voted for Clinton because I believed he would do something for ALL people for healthcare. At that time I had coverage but felt it was important for all, so important that I voted for Clinton. That fizzled out fast, and we all know how his terms turned out.

So, I hope Obama does something. Any coverage for all is better than nothing. It really should not be left to employers. This encourages them to pay less or not have coverage at all.

By SteveK9, February 20 at 5:58 am #
Obama needs bit more populist tinge to his rhetoric.
Next mountains:
1) Take over the worst of the banks and throw the ‘bums’ out.
2) Institute a National Health Care system - expand medicare to cover everyone.
~*~*
SteveK9
I think these two have been covered, and are already under consideration or in the works.

Obama has said, (and I’ll look for the links for you) that not all of these banks are going to survive, or be rescued or recovered. He also hasn’t ruled out nationalizing some of the ones that DO get our rescue funds.

I think it’s the same thing with the National Health Care System, at least in terms of what it appears that most folks want him to do…expand medicare to cover everyone.

Basically, that has ALWAYS been the plan, as far as I could tell, but he didn’t call it ‘medicare for everyone’. Maybe that’s the tripper-upper.

As far as I understand Obama’s National Health Care system, it was specifically intended to MAKE AVAILABLE to anyone who WANTED it, the same level of medical care/health coverage that ALL Federal Employees get, at an affordable price.

In short, that *IS* Medicare, or at least part B of it, and that’s what the Obama campaign platform promised to deliver. I don’t think they’re finished working on it yet, at least in terms of the paperwork and the bureaucracy involved.
Meantime, maybe there’s a need for an additional clarification on what Medicare actually IS, and how it currently works, in order to be sure that’s exactly what you’re suggesting should be available to all.

Medicare part A is free hospital coverage for the recipient, and there are no ‘premiums’ charged for this coverage. Those who currently qualify for Medicare part A qualify as part of a current system determined by what they’ve paid into it over the years. Ergo, there are no premiums for this particular coverage…which covers hospital care only. And yes, that is on the public dime.

Medicare part B is a different issue, and it’s what Obama is talking about making available to all who want it. Part B covers all of the other stuff, (well, not all, and not even enough) that MOST AMERICANS need at some point in their lives, (preferably on a routine basis) in terms of their health care. So part B covers the docs and other professionals required to provide this service. It covers the equipment and the technicians’ part of the cost. It covers the cost of the paperwork processing, the bureaucracy if you will. It covers the upkeep of the facilities where the services are actually rendered, down to the last trash can and the people who make sure it gets dumped in the appropriate places.

This is a good thing. It’s what makes most people who are qualified to PURCHASE this coverage, do exactly that. But, that’s an option for those who are qualified, because it isn’t FREE. I sometimes get the impression from some of the comments on this site, that there are those who think that medicare coverage is simply ‘automatic’ for those who qualify. But, it’s only ‘automatic’ when we choose to PAY monthly premiums for the coverage. Most of us do it because it is a VERY GOOD DEAL, especially considering what the Corptocracy has done in privatizing health care for enormous profit.

2 of 2

So I think nearly all of us (including Obama from what he’s said in the past) would agree that a similar (or identical) option to PURCHASE this coverage FROM THE GOVERNMENT, (which is who I pay my premiums to) at a similarly affordable price, is what is in order. And, from my own understanding, (which could be wrong, so we’re open for ideas here) that’s what Obama has planned, to cover the expenses that both parts A and B currently cover.

We’ve already made the benefits of the drug part (D) available to everyone in California. – no qualifying required – $4.00 for all generics, but it only covers the generics, so someone needs to keep pressure on Big Pharm legislation and force them to give up the legal protections that allow them to charge astronomical prices for certain meds in a very proprietary manner. That’s a worthy project.
So, is this your same idea of what extending medicare to everyone would involve?

I see a number of different reactions coming from the general population in regard to the present situation.  There is grief, distrust, hope, resignation, despair, optimism, etc. Some think that we should all have way more knowledge about finance, economics, and other subjects—which never hurts but it is not the answer now.  What I don’t see enough of is widespread outrage, the kind that many have so appropriately expressed on this site. I think at this point, only outrage could possibly translate into some degree of accountability, justice, and the necessary restructuring of institutions and government policy.  But where is that outrage?  At the same time, it is hard not to agree with some of you who feel that it may be too late already.

One can only “hope” that this is the real “beginning of the end” of civilization. Change we can believe in.

Just a few more pushes and over the edge it goes.

The CEO of Bank Of America said today that there is no need for any nationalization talk concerning his bank, which he claims is fiscally sound, and that those who utter such talk are ignorantly misinformed. Mind you, this is a corporate entity that just recently received $45 billion from the federal government, with a stock that is presently trading under $4 a share. The arrogant message is abundantly clear from these titans of industry: don’t worry about it, leave these problems to the “experts”, they will know what to do. We are simply not smart enough.

Colorado Sucks !! My unemployment is Always late, The police Kill newcomers for fun,gas costs $4.00 per gallon, Our pollution contains Plutonium, The cock roaches drag away small children, The Mexicans eat white people on sundays, the schools have a deadly mold condition, Barack was lucky to escape without getting robbed,We have 100,000 homeless who use violence to collect your money. It goes on folks, it’s not worth it,  TABOO

Ya gotta believe the Repugs have lost the majority of their NASCAR supporters- between layoffs, home foreclosures and god forbid their attack upon the Big 3.God they are total dumbasses. These folks may work at toyota, but it’s a ‘66 Mustang sitting intheir garage just waiting for a few more bucks to put in that double header exhaust system (sorry if not feasible- I’m not a gear head myself). Do they think it’s the Corolla posters decorating the walls? I’m bettin it’s not even Ferraris. Having been a bit of a Tom boy hanging around gear heads (but not really paying attention to the Muscle Car mechanics)It is not the Foreign cars they hold near & dear to their hearts- The Old Big 3 cars are what make them Swoon like School girls.Hell I even get giddy when I see a ‘66 Rag top Pony in mint condition. I was Pissed when they rolled out those late ‘70’s pieces of shit.But I love the new ones!
Even though it’s that old Ford that make my heart jump- It’s GM silverado my husband uses for carpentry and have not had one problem with. It’s the Jeep Grand Cherokee I gave to my daughter to drive out to AZ, knowing it would get her there.And It’s the Ford Escape I bought to replace it(although Not one of Fords most stellar models).
So go ahead Repugs let the Auto makers we grew up on, feel in love with and rely on now go to hell in a hand bag.It won’t be just us Union Loving Dems you’ll never convince to come over- it will be those NASCAR Fans you tried courting during the Campaign you will lose.Good Luck with that!

There is very little at this point that will stop what’s coming. We are still at least 1 to 2 years away from a bottom.

There is nothing that can be done to stop national suicide at this point, because those in charge of our financial system do not have a firm grip on reality.

The stimulus package will do very little to stop the plunge, another one will be on the way soon.

At some point it will become evident that America cannot pull itself up by it’s own boot straps, without a shift in political and economic power.

The right will do everything, in it’s power to stop that. This is the stuff of civil war.

Out political leadership in this country is a total failure, it profited from gutting this country, reality is a language they don’t know how to speak.

Obama needs bit more populist tinge to his rhetoric.

Next mountains:

1) Take over the worst of the banks and throw the ‘bums’ out.

2) Institute a National Health Care system - expand medicare to cover everyone.

Yes indeed David, the Lemmings are so happy to fall off of the cliff into the raging sea of despair. With Social Security to be the next to fall in line to save the sycophants of industry. Amerika once again proves that sacrifices are meant to be for the many to benefit the few.
Obama, once again shows his Friedman stripes.

Mr. Sirota’s woefully inadequate analysis of the economic situation proves to be a complete disaster. We have as of yet, to see the bottom of this depression, let alone start the climb back up to the top of the economic ladder.
Unemployment among African-American males stands at near and among the rest of the nation, not counting the underemployed, at %7.6.
This, not taking into account the derivatives market, which was wholly and completely unregulated by the Bush and Clinton administrations, has left this economy with a bill close to $500 Billion US.
We are not even near the precipice of the fall given all these facts. Yet here we have a “prescient foretelling,”  from a man who has not taken into account any of the economic factors that are just starting to affect this country.
Mr. Sirota, give up on writing this column, you have not given us the “straight poop” on anything that matters in this column.  Your analysis of the situation can only be described as “rose-coloured” glasses, along with a dose of “Shirley Temple,” mixed in.
If you are going to write about the coming economic disaster, please learn about the facts and figures that need to be presented to the American people, and the world, who read this blog. You sir, can take this worthless piece of garbage and put it where it belongs, in the recycling box of the nearest recycling center.

I guess David Sirota was past the point of no return, when it comes to some writing deadline. To give it yet one more silly analogy: he arrived at the outskirts of Denver, and there, he beheld the sprawling communications center, from where he would inevitably phone in his article.