in other words, you have no practical solution to israel’s dominance of america, and you are content to invent a new religion in preference to dealing with the global threat israel and its land and oil acquisition project poses.

good enough.

can i wash your feet?

Wadosy: re: “here i thought i had gone to great lengths in an attempt to explain that this is an israeli problem besides being an american problem”....

Israel is a problem from the point of view of the West having created it to help it encircle the Asian mainland. This was done under the aegis of the mindset that came into being with the Crusades.

However, that mindset can no longer sustain itself by any magic trick or paradox, but violence. The Israelis know it best. This is why the war in Iraq (to expand the Lebensraum of the West, which includes Lebanon and Israel) at the expense of the lands in the Middle East), threats to Iran (by the U.S. and Israel), occupation of Afghanistan, squeezing of Pakistan, deification of the Himalayan mountain range,etc.

What I see coming around the corner is a new religion that will be acceptable to all the “great” religions and political systems, because it will make clear beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are failures. I anticipate that this means that we are not only dealing with a financial and economic catastrophe, but that some form of mass extinction of humans may be in the offing.

“You are right when you say “this whole caper is nothing more than a scheme to loot america as it dies…”, but you are wrong to imagine this only as an American problem.”

huh! here i thought i had gone to great lengths in an attempt to explain that this is an israeli problem besides being an american problem.

i’m an american and my country is being victimized by a little bitty country that was a horrendous mistake in the first place, and has compounded that mistake ever since.

seeing as how americans will have absolutely no chance of dealing with peak oil and climate change so long as israel maintains its stranglehold on american politics and media, do you suggest some course of action…?

...or are you content to continue with this project to grab control of oil and high ground at gunpoint, ...content to squander any chance of america coming to its senses?

...not to mention the israeli americans’ “nuclear primacy” and “full spectrum dominance” that threatens not only america, but the world.

from the council on foreign relations foreign affairs March/April 2006…

“the sort of missile defenses that the United States might plausibly deploy would be valuable primarily in an offensive context, not a defensive one — as an adjunct to a U.S. first-strike capability, not as a standalone shield. If the United States launched a nuclear attack against Russia (or China), the targeted country would be left with a tiny surviving arsenal — if any at all.

At that point, even a relatively modest or inefficient missile-defense system might well be enough to protect against any retaliatory strikes, because the devastated enemy would have so few warheads and decoys left.”

The Rise of U.S. Nuclear Primacy

Wadosy, the root cause of this catastrophe (not just a crisis) has something to do with perspective. The West has operated from a navel gazing, hubris driven perspective for centuries.

You are right when you say “this whole caper is nothing more than a scheme to loot america as it dies…”, but you are wrong to imagine this only as an American problem. The problem began in Europe way back before the so-called Middle Ages. When you start seeing the world from a long-term perspective, you may see that the looting of Earth (and peaking of oil resources) began with uncontrolled birth rate, which surely has something to do with our political system, which is surely responsible for our economic system, etc. In short, the whole world has been looted even as it dies.

we are squandering our chances to deal with overshoot rationally…

the people with the juice, the people who govern by lying to the governed as a matter of policy, are trying to enhance their chances of survival at the expense of the rest of us.

By wadosy, February 21 at 6:43 am

I agree with you but have left out an equally dangerous situation that is bearing down on the world right now, well, you did touch on it at the end of you comment and it makes sense as to what is happening and why. It’s been given the apt label of ‘overshoot’. No matter what people think, there is a limit to what this planet will provide for the species that live on it and that limit has been passed, thus overshoot. Here’a a link to a site that may help explain more:

http://www.overshoot.net/

It will not be pretty. As as much as the governments, financial disruptors religions and ideology are responsible for this, all of humanity has a share in this upcoming ‘adjustment’ to the people and this earth and yes, those ‘movers and shakers’ are hopefully stealing everything they can in the hopes that they will survive. All based on greed and the rest of the 7 deadly sins are subsets of GREED! But guess what, those that survive will be blessed with the upcoming onslaught of the next ice age that will be creating more and more unstable weather, but that is a couple of thousand years in the buildup.

reality is politically impossible…

...but it’s no secret that global crude oil production has been flat for the last four years despite a doubling of drills since january of 2002.

it’s no secret that without the particulate emissions from emerging economies —emissions that shade the planet— we might be seeing global temps two degrees C higher than they are now, and it’s no secret that, if greenland and antarctica melt, we’d see an 70 or 80 meter rise in sea level, which will wipe out the 70% of the israeli population that lives on israel’s coastal plain.

so israel must be secured now, before the oil runs out, by either (1) grabbing control of the remaining oil and rationing it out to emerging economies, or (2) grabbing high ground, aka the palestinians’ land in the west bank…

…the basic problem being: particulates that shade the planet settle out in settle out in four or five years, but the co2 that’s causing the warming has an atmospheric lifetime of maybe 300 years.

israel needs to close hormuz and build pipelines from the persian gulf to israel in order to control energy flows to emerging economies… a last ditch effort to control global warming by controlling energy consumption…

…not to mention the fact that nobody in their right mind has much faith in the long-term survival of israel’s protector, america, because america’s been built from the ground up dependent on cheap oil… so peak oil is a threat to israel, at one remove.

the most compelling motive is self-preservation: global warming and peak oil threaten israel, so israel did something to preserve itself from global warming and peak oil.

israel is too weak to secure itself, so it had to enlist the support of its protector, america ...which was no problem, seeing as how israel controls american politics and media…

so, with the assistance of deathwish christian and corporate fascist fellow travelers who’d supposedly benefit from a land and oil acquisition project, a triggering event was staged.

since peak oil was the immediate reason for 9/11, something had to be done to disguise the fact that global oil production had peaked… something had to be done to obscure peak oil’s role as motive to stage 9/11.

isnt it nice that professional money people—who surely knew better—had lent trillions of dollars to marginal borrowers, packaged those loans, and peddled those packages of bad debt to anyone addled enough to buy them… the result being, a mechanism was in place to crash the global economy, thus crashing the demand for oil, thus obscuring the fact the oil production had peaked, thus obscuring the most pressing reason for staging 9/11…

...unless… unless… unless the shakers and movers—at least some of them—see the peak oil handwriting on the wall, realize recovery is impossible, and this whole caper is nothing more than a scheme to loot america as it dies… the shakers and movers will be able to stack up enough loot to hide out until the peak oil/global warming dust settles.

*************************************
By KDelphi, February 20 at 10:04 pm #
Why are so many USAns doing opiates??
*************************************

Because reality is something americans have been trained to avoid and just like most alcoholics drink to forget, pop a pill and live in that world free of reality but full of those empty dreams of promise.
One of worse things I have read of late is that stupid woman who supposedly started giving her chimpanzee companion seditives or anti-depressants or what ever and so rightfully was attacked by her primate companion. STUPID STUPID human tricks. So, yeah, don’t forget, this is a country where not just the people but their hapless pets are treated with pharma chemicals. Now tell me how this can support a rational society in this country!

“pneuma”, huh?

well, if you’re unable to admit that peak oil and global warming are for real, you gots to conjure up other reasons for this mess… reasons that dont make much sense and add to the confusion.

it’s understandable that people reject the facts of peak oil and global warming, even if they’re not zionists—the implications are too unpleasant for many normal people to face… a fact that makes the AEI/CERA/exxon denial programs so successful.

so here we are: “pneuma, aether, and soul”, when the root causes are more pedestrian.

The arguments that 9/11 was a false flag operation are convincing. What is not convincing are the motives given: control over the regions oil or gas, eliminating the narcotics trade, blocking Russia and/or China from access to the Arabian Sea (my own favorite), four corners of the world, etc. This is not that these latter do not have a role to play and are not important elements in and of themselves. Nevertheless, all can be seen as lesser elements in a “game” for control of our planet’s—for the lack of a better word—pneuma, aether, or soul.

The more or less collective opposition at this site to the military exercise in Afghanistan by the U.S. and NATO is, therefore, not the result of a lack of interest in shaping the world of tomorrow, but expresses an ill defined (uninformed?) point of view in conflict with those who are able to play the game in real time. Thus, what is the opposition’s viewpoint? Moreover, why is it that we cannot agree on what it is?

These questions are best answered by a topic that is being avoided at this site as if it were a plague: religion, another word for penuma, aether et al. No doubt, Wm Pfaff mentioned the unspeakable word as if only in passing because it is such a “no no” in the West. Why?

Because the powers that be in the “West” wish to maintain control over the pneuma they have imposed on the mind of the people living in the West and which has spread to the East as well. Clearly, that pneuma is a near synonym for “liberal democracy”, where “liberal” means creating laws which allow corporations to act as if they have an individual’s rights and powers, and “democracy” gives the corporations the rights to liberally exercise these fought for and gained “legal” rights.

I have suggested that the West-East conflict arose about the time that the people of Europe ended their days as wandering tribes. This occurred roughly a thousand years ago. The human wave (moving from the east in a westerly direction) hit the wall of the seas that border Europe’s west and the inertia of the wave came flowing back East as the Crusades. The Crusades were directed at then controlling power in the East—Constantinople, today Istanbul.

The crusades—first justifying themselves as bringing the world the good news of the wandering teachers (sadhus, Johns, wandering Jews, Moors, whatever name) on a universal scale—eventually deteriorated into pure power struggles. That power struggle is still going on, the chief impulses of aggression emanating from the West (Bush’s slip of the tongue about a “crusade” being no slip), while the East takes a defensive position, and is looking for opportunities to check and reverse the tide.

In short, yes, the false flag operation has been going on for a thousand years. Perhaps only an exhaustion of our Earth’s resources and a climate change of major proportions will bring a real change.

By KDelphi, February 20 at 10:04 pm #
Why are so many USAns doing opiates??
~*~*
Dearest KDelphi,
First it was Folktruther who made my day, (seriously) and now it’s you.
I had to laugh out loud at this question. It reminded me of my ‘activist’ trip up to Canada a few years ago, in an attempt to expose Big Pharma here in the yep…USA, and also to bring some awareness to how Big Pharma was preventing so many people from access to meds that should be available to all. (But, you know the story there).

Anyway, I was interviewing this Canadian physician about standard questions for our eventual report, and he asked me basically the same question, “Why are so many Americans taking anti-Depressants?”
I just looked at him, momentarily stunned. (even though he certainly appeared to be an intelligent man and a knowledgeable physician, it didn’t mean that he knew anything about the mental conditions of Americans, so that might have been why he asked.) After realizing that, I asked him, “Well, uh, do ya pay much attention to US Politics?”

Now he wasn’t a psychiatrist, so maybe he wouldn’t connect such an 8 year reign of terror by an extremist group of radicals to an overall effect on the collective psychology, and that the collective psychology is made up of those who are taking the stuff.

Same with the opiates of course. USAn’s are taking anything they can get their hands on. They’re still in the shock of the terror. If I had some opiates I’d take ‘em too. Then again, that would actually be a last resort, if only because there are better things that don’t do the same long term damage to the brain. Over time, opiates really jack up the body. Marijuana is far better, and accomplishes the same benefits and more.

Now THAT’S what the Afghans could grow as a cash crop, in addition to the crops that they grow to sustain themselves. They could still produce the opium in far smaller amounts to supply legitimate needs for it, because it DOES have a perfectly legitimate medical use(s) and I don’t see why it shouldn’t be available for those purposes.
It’s just that things have gotten out of hand, and so Afghanistan now produces about 230% more of the stuff than what the entire world actually has a legitimate use for. And I’m considering the continued treatment of and supply to opiate addicts, as a legitimate use, though obviously most folks wouldn’t. But still, it makes the point about when is something TOO MUCH?

Anyway, thanks for making my day. Folktruther’s revelation was slightly more impressive, if only because he actually embraced a return to respect for scholarship, having so ferociously bad-mouthed it for so long. (I semi-understand some of his criticisms, based on poor models that are actually anomalies).

Still, your’s gave me a good chuckle, especially since I suspect you already know the answer.

@ By Theo, February 19 at 10:27 am #

Don’t be so d@#$ lazy. Do your own research. http://www.peterdalescott.net/

SMOKING _AND_ INHALING - PFAFF IS PLAYING THE FOOL

He is not a Neocon. But we hope that he knows that the following is complete RUBBISH.

> What do Afghanistan and Pakistan have that so disturbs Americans that Washington will fight a new war because of it? The answer is that they harbor the prophets of a new religion, which says that the world can be saved if everyone is converted to Islam and scrupulously follows its laws, as interpreted by certain Pashtun tribal groups in Pakistan’s North West Frontier Territory. This seems to be what Washington fears. But why?

Nafeez Ahmed knows quite well what is going on - it is the Algeria Scenario, transferred to Afghanistan. ‘The Great Game on crystal meth, played at warp speed’.

Introduce the terrorists. Then introduce yourself as the saviour who eliminates them. Oh, and while you are there, clean up on oil, gas and geopolitical strategic goals.

Nafeez Ahmed - http://nafeez.blogspot.com/

What geopolitical strategic goals? These goals - Tariq Ali with Michael Parenti and Peter Dale Scott - @ 8:40 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ1TX-QwtGo

Why are so many USAns doing opiates??

You are wrong about 9/11, Anarcissie.  Wrong, wrong wrong.  But my wife, who is also intellegent, logical and radical, doesn’t believe it was a false flag opration either. Her unstated objection, as near as I can tell, is that this isn’t the way the world is, the way governments operate, the way the American government operates. 

The idea that the president’s administration would blow up it’s own buildings and kill thousands of Americans is crazy.  It is ideologically absurd, like saying that the earth moved before the 17th century. The notion is outlandish, parnnoid and in bad taste.

But it happened, it IS the way reality is. There is an enormous anount of evidence, all individually captable of alternative explanations, but taken as a whole, a holistic composite, is the compellingly plusable explantion. That it could be done without the complicity of high officals has a vanishingly small probability. This need not include Bush but in that case must include Cheney.

But Anarcissie’s point is that even if it did occur, there is nothing we can do about it. The government will never acknowledge it, which is certainly true.  The point of a governement investigation is to reveal more evidence and to give legitimacy to the search for addtional evidence.

And the main reason for persuing this evidence is the point that tropicgirl made.  If you don’t understand 9/11 as a false flag operation, you don’t understand the history of how we got where we are and where we are going.

In my opinion, the 9/11-anthax homicide initated a national shock that began a political counter revolution that changed the power form of the American government and power system.  It crystalized previous trends to make the president the Commander in Chief who ruled more through the military, police and intelligence agencies. Secretly.  While the liberal, public forms remained as hollow husks, devoid of people power.

The political and historical implications of 9/11 as a false flag operation, as oppossed to a foreign, terrorist attack, is quite different.  To understand what should be done in the future, it is necessary to understand what WAS done in the past, and the dire implications of the American people being attacked by their own power system.

here’s the overall PNAC/AEI/exxon plan.

did somebody mention motives?

graph: oil production, drills, and price

saudi oil production

israel: 80 meter sea level rise

plenty good reasons for staging 9/11 to kick off a land and oil acquistion project, dont you think?

Anarcissie, assuming you want to get back on topic:

here’s the neocons’ proposed map middle east and south asia, from ralph peters, a confirmed neocon of the worst sort.

here’s that same map, redrawn with pipelines, energy deposits, new boundaries and a list of things that will supposedly be accomplished… no confusion at all from the neocon standpoint.

if there’s any confusion at all about what’s happening in central asia, it’s probably more fakery… an attempt to disguise the neocon intent to control the world by controlling energy.

...not to mention another possibility… a last-ditch attempt to control global warming by controlling energy consumption by rationing energy supplies to emerging economies in asia.

and finally, given the fact that global oil production has almost certainly peaked (which was the immediate cause of the 9/11 operation), this is the last chance for anybody to achieve their global hegemony, benevolent or otherwise, before their armies run out of gas.

What you post on is your business, but obviously to many of us it is not two topics. Your assumptions assume your conclusions, as usual.

I said nothing about omnipotence. They actually left HUGE amounts of evidence behind that ordinary Americans see all the time.

Star here:

http://www.historycommons.org/project.jsp?project=911_project

They also almost certainly had things go wrong in their plan. It is you who refuse to look at the evidence or the possible mistakes on a priori grounds. Your refusal to do so is one of the things they can count on.

You do not answer any of my arguments or questions, Your mind is closed. A pity, but we have the consolation of knowing that you won’t post on this topic again.

If you don’t believe 911 was a false flag incident, then you really don’t have any idea, nor will you ever understand, what is going on here. Period.

In case there is someone who still hasn’t seen it…

http://loosechange911.com/lc3.shtml

You have to buy the DVD but you can watch it online for free. The best so far.

omniadeo:
’... I do recognize that you zero in on a serious weakness in the “we need a new investigation” line of thought. ...’

Well, there’s that, and there’s also the obvious conclusion that if the government or the secret cabal or whoever is as powerful and as competent as you say it is, then nothing can be done against them anyway.  Remember, they knocked down two huge buildings in one of the most densely populated areas of the world without leaving a shred of hard evidence behind, at least not any available to ordinary people, and not a single co-conspirator has ratted or been ratted out.

My own direct experience of the government and its agents, overt and secret, which includes military experience, is quite different from what you seem to be postulating, and I’ll bet yours (plural) is too.  My experience is that government people and cops and secret agents screw up like everyone else.  If you want to believe they are omnisicient and omnipotent, though, go ahead.

I’ll just note in ending that one or more 9/11 conspiracy theories have once again hijacked a thread about something else, and then led to nothing but a apprehension of eye-rolling hopelessness.  I guess that’s what people like.

I’m not going to post on this subject again.

Anarcissie,

I don’t know about obvious, but I mentioned below 8 specific things that are KNOWN. If you remove the thermate, that’s 7. (I have to rely on a tech debate about thermate, and I am reasonably certain whom to trust, but I have to trust them, since i can’t test for thermate myself.)

Every one of those seven things is in the public record, (as are the torturous and obviously rigged official explanations for the building collapses). I could add many other facts, like the size of the KNOWN (let alone the unknown) black opps budget in the US, and the additional resources available by drug and weapons sales, not to mention ordinary corporate money from various known coroporate sponsors of war and terror in the world. (Oil companies come to mind, but there are others.

We clearly agree about our government’s penchant for corruption, war and brutality, but you seem to feel, along with Chomsky et al. that my wanting to know the facts about how black opps are used to start wars is actually impeding your ability to organize and counter this penchant. Here is my response:

It seems foolish to try to resist an enemy without curiosity about how it actually operates. Suppose for a minute it is true that black opps by secret teams operating at some of the highest levels of the gov/military/intelligence/corporate complex are able to:

1) assassinate US Presidents and presidential candidates in broad daylight
2) start wars with false flag operations conducted by “terrorists” who are on record as being employed by the US government
3) infiltrate known resistance movements with agents provocateurs and spies
4) silence journalists and whistle blowers with irrelevance intimidation and murder when they report on the above
5) neutralize all reporting on the facts of these situations in the major media

Now I have two questions: First, do you dismiss these as impossiblities or irrelevancies? If the former, then you are simply wrong. Similar actvities by various entities in history are well documented. If the latter, then you are even wronger, since any organization which attempts to counter the results (war, torture etc) of these forces is doomed if they deny that the forces themselves exist.

Thus we are free to return to our discussions of alternate explanations for 911—“911 Truth.”

I do recognize that you zero in on a serious weakness in the “we need a new investigation” line of thought. (LOL as wadosy says.) But I am not wrong to want to think about the truth, and make my own investigation. I am not wrong to draw rational conclusions from known facts. All knowledge ranges across probablities. The probablity that my theories about 911 are right (given the lack of a real investigation) are not 100% of course, but the probablity that the official story is right is exactly 0%.

Your position is like applying band aids to a possible cancerous sore while claiming that cancer is impossible or irrelevant. The band aid is not wrong, but not likely to be the answer if the cancer is real. Of course our civilization may die of this cancer anyway, but to want to know the TRUTH about even a fatal disease is not wrong.

My personal thanks to all who work for 911 truth.

first of all, you gots to decide what’s possible, and what’s not possible.

then you have to decide who the suspects are, judging possible suspects by motive, means, opportunity, and character.

when the official conspiracy theory is too lame to hold water, then it’s inevitable that other conspiracy theories will evolve.

to assist the evolution of those other conspiracy theories, we have to assume that the culprits will render whatever aid they can in developing the most idiotic alternatives they can dream up.

so we have to ignore the idiocy, and try to figure out what’s possible, then figure out who had the motive(s), who had the means, who had the opportunity and who has a history of similar crimes—aka, the character.

seeing as how the most likely perps control the investigative machinery and the media machinery, an have an apparently infinite supply of professional disinfo artists… seeing as how they have a huge motive to confuse the issue, it’s not surprising that all these years later, we’re still groping around for the truth.

all we need is an honest investigation.

LOL

here’s how it must have happened….

osama was on the internet one day, and stumbled across PNAC’s call for a new pearl harbor, and osama sez to himself, “huh! i’ll fix those guys’ wagons! i will stage a new pearl harbor for them! ...and everyone will think those assholes from PNAC dun it!”

so osama rigged the 2000 election so the signers of the PNAC document, people like cheney, rumsfeld and the usual assortment of likud loons, got installed into positions that would have enabled them to make 9/11 happen, had they been inclined to make 9/11 happen, which they were most definitely NOT—-despite their yearnings for a new pearl harbor as expressed in the PNAC document they signed…..

then osama organized everything, from the training of the pilots to the security at the airports to the standdown at NORAD to oneill’s job at the trade center, including bunnypants’ month-long absence from dc while the shit was coming down.

osama even dispatched five mossad guys to film the event….

well, you know what they say about the best laid plans of mice and men… little did osama know that the PNAC guys had enough juice to reverse the frameup, and osama found hisself dragging his dialysis machine from pillar to post in an effort to escape the wrath of PNAC.

it’s a sad sad thing.

So here we see how conspiracy theories function.  No one talks about obvious, known stuff that needs to be noticed and dealt with, and which could form an important organizing point for activism, even that with so humorous and entertaining a title as “America’s Confused Cause In Central Asia”.  Instead, once again, there’s this dance of supposition and hypothesization which ends, as it always does, on the need for better investigation—by a government which the same conspiracists have already postulated as so clever and powerful that it was able to carry off an enormous, deadly plot involving hundred or thousands of people while leaving not a particle of unequivocal, concrete evidence behind.

I have a conspiracy theory about conspiracy theories: that they are actually started by the government (or rather, the secret groups behind the government) for this very purpose: to drag the time and energy of skeptics and dissidents down various conspiratorial ratholes, while they openly carry on wars, murders, thefts, kidnappings, torture, and numerous other crimes.  All I need to prove it is a really good investigation.

it looks like the 9/11 operation was technically possible using GPS/remote control of the airplanes.

the problems would come if the cockpit flight controls were mechanically connected to the control surfaces… you’d have to knock out the pilots before the GPS/remote/whatever took over.

timed release or radio controlled release of a poison gas in the cockpit?

who knows?

the fly-by-wire planes, the newer ones, dont have a mechanical linkage, so it becomes a matter of reprogramming the navigation system and electronically locking the pilots out of navigation system.

it’s one of those things we’ll never find out about until there’s an honest investigation.

but apparently…

Predator UAVs have been operational in Bosnia since 1995

wadosy- I’ve talked to cmmercial pilots I play tennis with and they all agree that overides can be put into commercial planes, but none have been to their personal knowledge.  Also Cyrena worked at the airlines for a long time.  I would guess the mechanism is its similar to those of the military drones now being used to bomb people’s homes and weddings in Muslim counries.

i should have mentioned, on the off chance anyone has forgotten, that zakheim was a signatory (last page) to PNAC’s “rebuilding america’s defenses”, which said that a “new pearl harbor” (PNAC page 51) would be necessary to get the PNAC project started.

GPS seems like the simplest way to go… all you’d have to do is program the autopilot, disable the radios, and that’s that.

more google searches, the urls of which wont paste into truthdig:

GPS control airliners
GPS aircraft programmed
GPS airliners automated approach OR landing

not to mention they’ve been flying predator drones in afghanistan from cockpits in wherever...

here’s a stanford university news release from 1996 about a grad student who programmed a model plane from takeoff to landing… he pushied one button, and the plane took off, flew the programmed course, and landed.

Before a flight, Montgomery programs into a laptop computer the path that he wants the aircraft to follow. This information then is downloaded into the airplane’s onboard computer. After placing the plane on the runway and starting the engine, he pushes a single button, the aircraft takes off, flies the preprogrammed course and then lands all by itself.

*shrugs*

then there’s zakheim’s System Planning Corporation and its Flight Termination System.

oddly enough, system planning corporation seems to have failed to pay its internet bill, so the above reference exists only as a google cache… as of this posting, System Planning Corporation’s home page is down.

...and i guess the possibility remains that there were actual suicidal pilots, dupes…

to paste into search windows:

System Planning Corporation
Flight Termination System
“dov zakheim” rabbi

there doesnt seem to be much mainstream evidence of dual citizen zakheim’s rabbi-ness, but there’s lots of smoke…  even wikipedia agrees that he’s up to his eyebrows in stuff concerning israel.

more about zakheim, this time a yahoo cache from sytems planning corporation, which wont paste into truthdig’s window… you’ll have to yahoo search: zakheim “system planning” ...and click on the “cache” button.

Dov S. Zakheim is Corporate Vice President of System Planning Corporation (SPC), a high-technology, research, analysis, and manufacturing firm based in Arlington, Virginia. He is also Chief Executive Officer of SPC International Corporation, a subsidiary of SPC that specializes in political, military, and economic consulting, and international sales and analysis. In addition, Dr. Zakheim serves as Consultant to the Secretary of Defense and the Under Secretary of Defense for Policy.

...and none of this is ruling out the remote possibility of actual suicide pilots, dupes…

By omniadeo, February 19 at 9:39 pm

I am with you on the theorizing because it is too easy to get caught by those neocon types that argue a point to where you show the slightest hesitation or you ‘blink’ first sort of gives them the upper hand, not in your or my mind but any poor hapless person trying to keep up with the thread of the arguement.
And I would rather try the thought processes of what is most highly probable and not to belabor the point, the evidence of thermite and thermate at ground zero and the whole area. This ordnance is basically not available to the ‘general public’ so much so that those demolition companies that reviewed ground zero were confounded by the explosives used and the results, mainly molten steel(witnessed by fire personnel) orange or yellow glowing steel seen in video and pictures, the steel dripping out of the buildings or off of the chunks, and the high tempatures in the 1300degree range that lasted for months(the last fire was not extinguished until sometime in December, over 3 months after the attack. Members of regular demolition firms had not seen anything like it.
So instead of theorizing, I try to ask questions and as far as the use of these 2 products that are supposedly so high tech that only the military has it for its use, I have to ask:
Where did the access to these ordnance come from?
I would have to say the military and or the cia.
Not knowing anything about this ordnance use and set ups, how was it set in the buildings for the demolition with no one the wiser to it being done? The whole of ground zero was and still should be considered a crime scene but it was cleared up as quickly as possible, why? That steel and rubble the vast part of it has already been recycled into something else unless the countries it was sent to have saved some for ‘prosperity’. Why does a member of the bush family alway appear around big events such as this? It is more than just beginning to appear as a coincident. Not just w as president but his younger brother, marvin, was a higher up in the security firm in charge of the wto for several years leading up to the attack.
I could go on and on but the essence is that this is something that will really hurt this country if the attack of 9/11 is not vigorously and thoroughly investigateed, and damn those that would be implicated in the attack if they are found out to be a part of it. And a final point, the confused reason we are in Afghanistan is to keep people from dwelling on subjects like the 9/11 attack. With the help of a complicit media and the corporate world, it seems to be working still but even after 7 and a half years more and more people are becoming aware of the inconsistancies of the attack and are beginning to comptemplate the real meanings of the attack and who may really be responsible. I really really hope so.

Ah, from Afghanistan to 911. The shoe has dropped.

Cyrena’s instincts are right on this one, me gut AND me brain tell me. But I hesitate to “theorize” because it makes it easier for the phony “skeptics” to change the burden of proof from their government issued conspiracy theory to our home grow ones. So I have sworn off theorizing, but secretly, I am with you Cyrena.

There are only a few things that can be proven about 911: For instance, it was used to justify a war and the loss of civil liberties. And every main “terrorist” involved had connections with US military and/or intelligence. And our own government fought long and hard NOT to investigate it. And the people (for instance in the FBI) who tried to catch the “terrorists” and stop them before it happened were frustrated by their superiors at headquarters. And the whistleblowers were punished but the superiors were promoted. And the field offices, which were more aware and vigilant, had powers taken away from them in the “reorganization” afterwards while the headquarter offices, which allowed the attacks to go forward, were granted more power. And those celebrating Israelis who were whisked out of the country right after Bin Laden’s relatives. Oh, yeah, and those thermate traces….

For what its worth, I think Cyrena’s explanation of an overide on the planes is most likely too.  But that doesn’t exlcude that terrorsts weren’t involved or on the planes.

anarcissie, I see you haven’t looked at the books I mentioned on 9/11.

I am not really that interested in the question (of who destroyed the World Trade Center).  I am sure that there are many powerful people would do something like that if they thought they could get away with it.  In fact, long ago I wrote a story in which a secretive ruling elite blew up, not the World Trade Center, for it did not then exist, but the Statue of Liberty, in order to excuse the additional repression they wished to bring about.  (Good thing I never published it!)  I considered it a realistic story then, and things have gotten worse since.  However, my take on the Bush administration is that they are by and large cowards who would not have the nerve to pull off such a risky adventure.  Remember, they’re mostly chicken hawks.  In any case, if we can’t prosecute them for crimes they committed and admitted right out in the open, I don’t see much chance that they will be investigated or prosecuted for something they have so successfully covered up.

By Anarcissie, Feb 19 at 6:44 pm
•  “I am one of those dull souls who thinks airplanes were flown into the World Trade Center towers, because I saw it happen (sort of).  Therefore, I can’t say Osama didn’t do it because someone else did.”

Ah Anarcissie,

No WAY are you a ‘dull soul’ and I’m delighted to know that you think airplanes were flown into the WTC Towers, because that’s what the rest of us ‘saw’ as well. Although, being in New York, you would certainly have had a far more personal experience in witnessing this, than what we would have probably felt from watching this on TV. You might even have had the opportunity to see the airplanes. (as an aside, if you did, or know anyone who did – I’m extremely interested in discovering anyone who might have noted the ship or ‘tail’ number on either of those aircraft.) Then again, I have a dear colleague who was living in New York at the time, (though not in Manhattan) and she acknowledges sleeping through the whole event on 9/11.

Anyway, we know that airplanes did fly into the towers on 9/11, because we saw that much on tape, and some of you may have witnessed it live and in person. That doesn’t make the majority of us ‘dull’, but rather at least conscious of reality, unlike my friend and colleague, who slept right through it, and has a tendency to do with other real-time events as well. (‘course now that I think of it, that could be one excuse for NOT believing that airplanes were flown into the WTC Towers – he/she didn’t see it happen.) Sadly, that logic does dictate a certain portion of the population: “If a tree falls in the forest, and they didn’t see or hear it fall, then it didn’t happen”).
So, we can’t say that bin Laden didn’t do it, because someone else did – either. We only know that airplanes were flown into the WTC Towers, and that they (the Towers) exploded shortly thereafter, burying and pulverizing anything that could (or at least WOULD) be identified as the airplanes/people who did the deed.

So, that airplanes were flown into the Towers is really ALL we ‘know’. We don’t know (for sure) what airplanes those were, nor do we know who or what actually flew them into the Towers. The standard scientific/forensic evidence that would help us know that is gone too. (that would be the boxes from the aircrafts). So, since we have absolutely NO forensic OR circumstantial evidence to KNOW how HOW those planes were flown into the Towers, we can’t know who did it either.

My ‘professional’ opinion believes it to have been a remotely controlled operation, because a commercial airplane professional cockpit crew would NOT fly the airplanes into the Towers, and none of the ‘named highjackers’ COULD have accomplished it. Even a highly experienced pilot with many hours in those aircraft seats would NOT have been able to ‘easily’ accomplish such a maneuver, even if they WERE suicidal, and most commercial airline pilots are not. It would have involved the same skill as was displayed by the US Airways pilot who landed that airplane in the Hudson River, the skill apparently lacking in the Continental crew that missed the mark up near Buffalo, resulting in the fatalities of everyone on board. (as an aside, there are at least two known occasions of commercial pilots sabotaging their aircraft -with people on board- in what can only be acknowledged as pilot suicide)  Still, most commercial airline pilots aren’t suicidal, and both the industry and the government agency (FAA) try to monitor for such tendencies among their drivers. (Good thing, eh?)

So, I’m firmly convinced that the assigned crew (if those were commercial aircraft with commercial crew members on them) did NOT fly those airplanes into the towers, and I’m as equally convinced that none of the ‘named ‘ highjackers were in any way capable of doing it, so neither did they.

But, we still don’t know who actually DID.

I will point you to a web site by architects and engineers, called AE9/11TRUTH.org, where you can view their video of how these 3 builds crashed to the ground on that day and what their scientific findings are. It is up to you to decide if they are a bunch of charlatans or if there is real substance in their findings.
Myself, I have seen enough video of buildings being brought down by demolition to know when a building has been set for demolition with explosives, be it implosion, most common type or explosion, not commonly used.. And with the evidence of remaining pieces of a very high grade of ordnance available supposedly to our military and not something that can just be whipped up in a cave, I have to have doubts about anything that is ‘official’ of that attack. If you are courious, check out the video on the web site. Here’s the link:
http://www.ae911truth.org/

I am one of those dull souls who thinks airplanes were flown into the World Trade Center towers, because I saw it happen (sort of).  Therefore, I can’t say Osama didn’t do it because someone else did.  Rather, I notice that nothing was presented at the time or afterward, other than what may have been an idle boast on a tape (and delivered, quite possibly, by an impostor—who knows?)  In a court of law, with no more evidence than that, Osama would walk.  Perhaps other evidence has been found, but I haven’t been told about it.  The Wikipedia pages have the virtue of being full of dissidence and conflict, at least if you read the discussion section.  They might be a starting point for further research, although of course if you already know The Truth that will be unnecessary.

By Anarcissie, February 19 at 12:16 pm

I would be very careful about using wikipedia for a subject like this as the general public or anyone with access to the internet can put their claim in as to what bin laden was or is up to in the world. Your key phrase ‘may have been involved in…’ leaves it open for interpretation but with the subversives still trying to paint the bad guys as living in caves, wearing robes, I would have to have a lot more reliable source of information. And until the attack of 9/11 is really and vigorously investigated I cannot be convinced of what really happened that day. Just one, only one, of the biggest questions that doesn’t get notice and never will on the msm is ‘WHY ARE THE VIDEOS OF THE PENTAGON ATTACK STILL BEING WITH HELD?’ One other question is ‘WHY IS THERE ACTUAL PIECES OF THE VERY HIGH ORDNANCE THERMITE AND THERMATE FOUND IN ALL THE DEBRIS OF THE DEMOLISHED TOWERS AND THE WTC 7’?

If the question isn’t merely rhetorical, there is an extensive discussion of what activities Osama bin Laden may have been involved in on the Wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden and the discussion page attached to it.

By Theo, February 19 at 10:27 am

I’m with you, prove it somebody. I am particularly interested to know how he, bin laden, whipped up a batch of thermite and thermate, rigged the wtc towers and wtc #7 for demolition and is still laid back somewhere sipping pina coladas. Maybe he and w are paling around at crawford clearing brush. Or maybe he and dick are hunting quail on dick’s ranch. Probably the only person dick would allow around himself with a loaded gun.

How I wish it were that simple, Afghan. But if Iraq and Afghanistan were hard, Pakistan will be harder—much harder.

The war in Afghanistan can only be solved by going after Pakistan.  Settle Pakistan, and you will have peace in Afghanistan.

http://www.theafghanistandirectory.com

Whoever wrote that Chaney’s comments did not take into account “American economic exhaustion and collapse” is quite right. No arguments about war in Afghanistan or anywhere else in the region can follow old familiar tracks anymore. Such a collapse is probable and may explain O’s and military’s hurry to “win” the war before its impossibility becomes all too obvious and results in civil unrest at home. Troubles at home would put an end to the great encirclement of Russia and China for ever and alter the geopolitical map in a a way no one has believed possible since the crusades.

Well, FT, you are right that the Agfghani oil claim could be part of an effort to bolster support for war rather than a fact. But the desire to build the “right” pipeline and the general imperial desire to contain Russia and China are still the main reasons for this war. Note that this military scholar (Army War College) writing for the military and foreign policy wonk establishment is quite open about this, even though it contradicts or ignores all the mainstream propaganda justifications discussed in Pfaff’s article.

I still believe you dismissed Spirit Girl too quickly out of hand. Oil and oil pipelines (and electrical grids also) play a very important role in the general US imperial project in central asia and the war in Afghanistan is defeinitely part of that project. To ignore this in discussing Obama’s enthusiasm for that war is dangerous.

Omniadeo has provided a link that states that new studies have discovered significant gas and oil in Afghanistan.  However, the rest of the article discusses the geo-political implications of this discovery, which favors the US, so there is a question of how reliable it is.

China has always wanted a pipeline through Afghanistan to Iran, which it hopes to install after Nato withdraws. Deposits in Afghanistan, to the extent that they exist, would make such a pipeline more economical.

Thank you, Folktruther. As you say, there’s no oil in Afghanistan itself; I’ve known about what could be called “The Plan for the ‘Stans” (for that oil pipeline) for some time. But now, it looks as if that reason for fighting in Afghanistan is forgotten amid the desire NOT to fail as the Soviets failed, with all the possible consequences of such failure. Thus, the USA may (IMHO) be defeated by pride and overconfidence.

Snowie, Cheney may have said the “war on terror” would last 100 years, but he clearly made no allowance for American economic exhaustion and collapse (which could happen—massively). Cicero said that the sinews of war are endless money; what’s going to happen if the money runs out?

Folktruther,

I do not believe that oil IN Aghanistan is the principal reason for the war, but there is oil in Afghanistan.

http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insight/articles/eav090306.shtml

As that article notes, oil pipelines and the struggle to cut off Iran ARE one major reason for geopolitical posturing in the area. The other reason is Pakistan itself (watch how they struggle to create reasons to invade it) and the containment of China. The only reason that the pipeline is “dead” is that the wars to control central Asia are not over.

Heroin is there to help finance the wars and black opps in the area and that definitely plays its part, but I wouldn’t call it a cause of the war. (Drugs Oil and Weapons are the unholy trinity of US foreiogn policy.) The religious and other “issues” are all US propaganda.

Obama has consistently supported this immoral, stupid enterprise right along with Zionism and the “War on Terror.” He would not be President if he didn’t. He was hired to put the MLK stamp of approval on wars of empire and commerce. He is the most brilliant political maneuver of the ruling classes in a long time.

I notice his tireless defenders on this site are tiring.

Cheney said that the “war against terror” would go on for the next 100 years. If nothing else, he is right on that one. I guess he would know, being one of the insiders. So, It would appear that all those who voted for Obama are just as duped as those voting for Bush. Its really bewildering to read articles, now, from people that are actually surprised in the increase in Troops being sent to Afghanistan. The “War” against the Middle East is about All The Above. Drugs, Religion, Culture, Natural Gas. The Muslims are a threat to the new world order. The American Middle Class was the other group that was a threat. Both are being eradicated and put in their place. This can only end in madness if it is not stopped. I am beginning to really H#te Obama as much as Bush. Obama, who has in one month of taking office, completely proven his loyalty to the Globalists.

Those people at the inauguration could not see the writing on the wall, And it was in BOLD!!

Fool me Once, shame on You. Fool me the next 1 million times, Shame on Me.

Paul, 60% of the police on drugs in Helmund Provice seened high to me, so I looked it up. You’re right.  In the neigboring province offical figures stated that 38% tested positive for drugs and Helmund provice is where two thirds of the world supply is grown.

Drug addicts deal to support their habit, so it is likely that the major dealers of heroin are the police.  The US has created a narco-state where the main economy is heroin distributed by the government that the US has set up under Freedom and Democracy.

Spiritgirl, there is no oil in Afghanistan.  There was initially a plan to build a pipeline from the ‘Stans to the Arabean sea, which provide part of the reason for the invasion.  But that plan has been dead for years.

I appreciate your article, but you’ve missed the major reason moving everything.  OIL!!!  Oil is the reason that this continues!  Those people at the top - Captains of Industry (if you will) - they don’t give a d—n about your religion, my religion, any of it! They care that they are making money hand over fist!  Period!  The USA no longer produces anything (except debt), our manufacturing sector is off-shored, our agricultural sector is now AGRI_BUSINESS (and off-shored), and everything else needs some OIL or OIL product to continue to flourish!

So as the masses are distracted by minutia, the Rich Corporate and connected - will continue to amass all the wealth they can!  One question: while I’ve never seen a Brinks truck following a hearse to the cemetery - where do they think that money will go, when they die?  For they will surely, die!!!!

Y’know, Folktruther, I read an article earlier today at the BBC site which described how 60% of all the Afghan police in Helmand Province are drug users. My first thought was, how popular are opium-related drugs with US and NATO troops? And is this being covered up?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7895612.stm

SteveK9:
‘This is the only real mistake Obama is making at this point.’

Actually, there are quite a few, if you consider either Mr. O’s implied program, the hopes of the Hope’n'Change set, or common sense to be the right thing to do.  We could also mention the financial gimcrackery, the continuation of repression, and a few other things.

However, I don’t think they are exactly mistakes.  They are rather policy mandates imposed on Mr. O by the ruling class.  The deal is, if you want to be president (or hold any other high office) you must subscribe to the program of war, imperialism, global domination, and as much funny money and domestic repression as may be necessary to keep them going.  Mr. O made it plain that he subscribed to the program even while he was being touted as the peace candidate.  I don’t think he is going to have much choice unless and until things get a lot worse, at which point, if he dares, he may be able to pull off a coup—against himself.

That’s assuming he wants to.  Unfortunately there’s a good chance he actually believes in the philosophy and purposes of the ruling class.

Actually, Tropicgirl, you may have put your finger on another important reason to continue the Afghan war, the huge trade in heroin.  Afghanistan now suppoies the world with 93% of its opium, about 8 thousand tons.  At one time it was being transported by US military planes to Turkey for pocessing into heroin.

Which means that high US officials and military are involved in the Afghan drug trade, as the CIA was in Vietnam.  This was apparently one of the reasons for outing CIA agent Valerie Plane.  She had infiltrated Turkish military and was reporting on trade in nuclear weapons and drugs.  A Turkish translator was similarly stifled for years to prevent her from talking.

The longer the war goes on, the more money the dealers make.

Again my congratulations on a very wonderful and timely piece and the comments are great.

Why are we in Afghanistan again Barry. So you can be much macho?

In addition to the reasons we all know and that have been stated here, kind of a wild west combo of reasons, let me add another one that I haven’t seen mentioned elsewhere.

Why is it, when Afghanistan has an apparently wonderful poppy crop and knows how to grow quality poppy, that they are not on the world market for legitimate pharmaceuticals, pain medication and everything that comes from this type of narcotic? Although I am not a fan of pharmaceuticals, it seems to me that this type of medication is badly needed in many countries and is very expensive. Why are they seemingly restricted to illegal drugs? Why not go legit? That crop belongs to that country so let it support them.

Well, you can guess the answer:  India. Si?

And, of course, all the heroin that has kept the banks afloat recently. What a cesspool.

the reason that the US in in Afghanistan, and is expanding the war to Pakistan, at an enormous cost in blood and money, is quite simple.  It is to prevent Obama from being attacked for losing the war during the next presidential election.  The bloodshed, torture, squandering of money and psychic trauma is being done entirely for political purposes, to elect Obama to a second term.

well not entirely,  The Afghan war is lost, as military leaders have stated publically, and this means that the US has led Nato into a quagmire, damaging and perhaps destroying it and US leadership.  This crazy military adventure was the consequence of the Zionist War on Terrorism, implemented in Israel’s imperialist interests.

Since Obama was put into office largely by Zionists, he cannot simply negotiate a peace with the Talibans and get out, since this would discredit the War on Terrrorism.  So Obama is not only cintinuing Bushite policy, but expanding and intensifying it.  As well as the War on Terrorism, as a front page article by the Zionist NYTimes has stated today.

Purple Girl:Remember when McCain said he knew how to capture Bin Ladin and would only tell us how after he was elected president, the same crap Bush told in 2004 that he would reveal the truth about the 9-11 investigation.Another Repug holding America hostage through blackmail tactics. Both men never make good on their boasts, which therefore, happens to make them accessories in both 9-11 and the protection of a repug sworn enemy, Bin Ladin. John McCain should be in Gitmo, tortured/interrogated for this information if he knows how and where to capture OBL and by not helping this country has shown his true colors of that of a traitor to America and had NO business in politics. He, along with the whole Bush administration needs to be locked up and tortured until they sing. They have continued to fuel wars based on lies.

We need to leave other countries alone, that is the main reason they hate us, American interference with the running of other peoples countries,lives and religious beliefs and at a time when we cannot even take care of the mess here at home. Like Russia squandering it monies trying to overthrow others,America follow it down the pathway to ruination and bankruptcy.

We’re crashing in this country due to presidents reagan and on up and with new face in the white house I would hope that he will see the insanity of keeping 2 wars on the burner. Leave both of them, bring the troops home and start working on reducing the defense budgets. If we cannot defend our country from foreign criminals from our country then we deserve to be attacked. There was enough evidence and warnings about 9/11 to prevent it unless it to, as is also evidenced, was allowed to happen or was out right an attack on our country by our on people, most whom are in our government and corporations.

I’ve yet to hear a good argument for being in Afghanistan in the first place, much less committing more now.

Apparently only those resistant to the Koolaid knew Afghanistan was not only a ‘Foot in the Door’for the Oil Corps, but an intentionally set Trap by their Oil royals.
Afghanistan was NEVER the source of Terrorist ideology- itwas merely their College Campus.Saudi Arabia is the spawning ground of American hatred. why should we be surprised when the Saudi royals have used US as Scapegoats for their oppressive doctrines. How many 9/11 attackers were Afghani, and how many were Saudi native sons? And who’s family was quickly and quietly whisked out of the US on 9/12?What other country grants Rights and priviledges according to their bank account?
Those Poppy growers are not Our Terrorist, just pawns in a game of Chess, the quest for Oil domination- by the UAE and their lap dogs the Western Oil corps.
Of Course McCain ‘knows how to Catch Bin Laden’- he’s been to his Place for drinks after helping topple the last superpower. Deja Vu anyone? Let’s add up McCains career..Member of the ‘Afghani Freedom Fighter’ support Group;KNEW the Anthrax came from Saddam-helped with the transaction in the ‘80’s? Keating 5’s S&L Heist;Best Buds with Gramm- Mr Deregualte the Stock market with ‘Modernization’; Mac’s willingness to bail out Wall Street, but ardent refusal to help stimulate the economy….does ‘Manchurian’ keep popping up in your head yet? Or Just willing Traitor?
Afghanistan was and still is a Bloody Red Herring.Our enemies lie within our own borders- in Seats of Political Power and Boardrooms, just follow their bread crumbs back over the last 3-4 decades, When these treasonous Red Coats seized the Republican party - Military Industrial Complex, anyone? It has become a lethal systemic infection, AIDS- Americans In Denial Syndrome.What the prophilatic doctrine of ‘For the People and BY the People’ was to protect US against, if used as directed, and on a consistent Basis.Stop listening to their Rhetoric and start reviewing their actions, many of your incumbants have had some dirty Bedfellows.That Koolaid has been laced with HGB!

As always and since some centuries ago, this is a for ever war, a crusade actually, by the West to deny Russia access to the Arabian Sea.

This is the only real mistake Obama is making at this point.