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Too Big to Fail, Too Big to JailPosted on Jan 27, 2009By Amy Goodman Karl Rove recently described George W. Bush as a book lover, writing, “There is a myth perpetuated by Bush critics that he would rather burn a book than read one.” There will be many histories written about the Bush administration. What will they use for source material? The Bush White House was sued for losing e-mails, and for skirting laws intended to protect public records. A federal judge ordered White House computers scoured for e-mails just days before Bush left office. Three hundred million e-mails reportedly went to the National Archives, but 23 million e-mails remain “lost.” Vice President Dick Cheney left office in a wheelchair due to a back injury suffered when moving boxes out of his office. He has not only hobbled a nation in his attempt to sequester information—he hobbled himself. Cheney also won court approval to decide which of his records remain private. Barack Obama was questioned by George Stephanopoulos about the possibility of prosecuting Bush administration officials. Obama said: “We’re still evaluating how we’re going to approach the whole issue of interrogations, detentions and so forth. ... I don’t believe that anybody is above the law. On the other hand, I also have a belief that we need to look forward as opposed to looking backwards. ... [W]hat we have to focus on is getting things right in the future, as opposed to looking at what we got wrong in the past.” Legal writer Karen Greenberg notes in Mother Jones magazine, “The list of potential legal breaches is, of course, enormous; by one count, the administration has broken 269 laws, both domestic and international.” Torture, wiretapping and “extraordinary rendition”—these are serious crimes that have been alleged. President Obama now has, more than anyone else, the power to investigate. John Conyers, chair of the House Judiciary Committee, has just subpoenaed Karl Rove while investigating the politicization of the Justice Department and the political prosecution of former Alabama Gov. Don Siegelman. Rove previously invoked executive privilege to avoid congressional subpoenas. Conyers said in a press release: “I will carry this investigation forward to its conclusion, whether in Congress or in court. ... Change has come to Washington, and I hope Karl Rove is ready for it.” Advertisement Why not take it a step further? Dennis Kucinich, D-Ohio, who led the charge in Congress for impeachment of Bush and Cheney, has called for “the establishment of a National Commission on Truth and Reconciliation, which will have the power to compel testimony and gather official documents to reveal to the American people not only the underlying deception which has divided us, but in that process of truth-seeking set our nation on a path of reconciliation.” Millions have served time in U.S. prisons for crimes that fall far short of those attributed to the Bush administration. Some criminals, it seems, are like banks judged too big to fail: too big to jail, too powerful to prosecute. What if we apply President Obama’s legal theory to the small guys? Why look back? Crimes, large or small, can be forgiven, in the spirit of unity. But few would endorse letting muggers, rapists or armed robbers of convenience stores off scot-free. So why the different treatment for those potentially guilty of torture, widespread illegal spying and leading a nation into wars that have killed untold numbers? Which brings us back to George Bush and books. Ray Bradbury’s novel “Fahrenheit 451” is one of the titles in the National Endowment for the Arts’ “The Big Read.” This ambitious program is “designed to restore reading to the center of American culture.” Cities, towns, even entire states choose a book and encourage everyone to read it. In “Fahrenheit 451” (the temperature at which paper spontaneously combusts), books are outlawed. Firemen don’t put out fires, they start them, burning down houses that contain books. Bradbury said: “You don’t have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them.” The secretive Bush administration is out of power; the transparency-proclaiming Obama administration is in. But transparency is useful only when accompanied by accountability. Without thorough, aggressive, public investigations of the full spectrum of crimes alleged of the Bush administration, there will be no accountability, and the complete record of this chapter of U.S. history will never be written. © 2009 Amy Goodman Distributed by King Features Syndicate New and Improved CommentsIf you have trouble leaving a comment, review this help page. Still having problems? Let us know. If you find yourself moderated, take a moment to review our comment policy. |
By Trithoverlies, February 2, 2009 at 3:59 pm Link to this comment
To all who will listen,
Report thisThe truth is 99 Semi’s guarded by Russian Special forces and driven by Rusians left Iraq 3 days before the invassion what do you suppose was in those trucks? I wonder well this was reported in the 911 transcripts so what happened to these trucks they scattered after being accepted across the border in Syria some were latter spotted in Hezebollah territory in Lebenon some crossed the black sea We believe why has this not been reported on or investigated by the News programs because what if those trucks took out the weapons we went into Iraq to find what if Hezebollah is sitting right now on WMD’s waiting for the appropriate time to release them what if Iran is much closer then the liberal pundits say to having both short range and three stage rockets ready to put nuclear warhead on and fire them what if Russias New program to build rockets and produce new warheads is not sabber ratling but the start of a new phase of the cold war that everyone in America thought had ended with the overthrow of the Communist Government of the Soviet Union? You know of course Puttin is Former KGB by the way what if he is reconstituting his arsenal and chocking Europe on Natural Gas to insure that he gets his way especially in this terrible winter the worst in a long time to hit Europe Russia Holds the keys to the natural Gas pipelines going into all parts of Europe and can selectively cut off supplies any time she wants. Welcome to the New Cold War people welcome to the Time of unparrelleled upevil and the Russians alliance with Islam. Russia is more attached to the Islamic Front then even under the Soviet Banner America has entered the most dangerious time in History not just because terrorism, state sponcered or independent but also a growing might of the New Russian federation and their Axis Allies in South America, namily Hugo, the Argentines Bolivians and other allies like FARC. If you don’t believe me that fine but atleast I Warned whether you believe or not is between you and the new Facism growing to ingulf the world in a third World War worse than anything we can even Imagine.
Trithoverlies/Truthoverlies.
John R. Bloxson Jr.
PS Why has Iran been practicing building the short range railling on containor ships to luanch scuds? This seems to me to be a very provocative act by a very belligerant Enemy who is already 4 moves ahead of us in the chess game now going on for all the marrbles.
By vancemack, February 2, 2009 at 11:56 am Link to this comment
Jim…ANY person that wraps primer chord around schol children…he is a terrorist. Any man that rapes and slaughters a mans daughter and wife in front of him and then does the same to him…that person is a terrorist. ANY person that uses mentally handicapped children to launch suicide attacks…that person is a terrorist. Freedom fighters…wow…really?
On the plus side…since Obama is now president I predict in short order the term freedom fighter will go away. Now…why d you suppose that is?
And…Umm…didnt you just make my point about all the non fundamentalists states? And…well if you think they are just sand and tent…well…again…I dont think you have a half a clue what you are talking about. I know…I know…how would I know what I was talking about tho…one of us has read lots of articles Im sure..and one of us has spent 4 years in countries throughout the middle east.
Your ignorance about how Saudi Arabia works is epic.
Report thisBy vancemack, February 2, 2009 at 11:48 am Link to this comment
Jim…if you are going to bother to respond, at least bother to respond to my actual comments, not what you want them to be. Do SOME Saudis support terror or terrorists? I suppose. Most wealthy Saudis that could fund terrorists are pure capitalists and are more invested in making money than any Wall Street banker. There is a reason why religion is enforced by the Mutawa at the tip of the bamboo cane. If you think most Saudis are dedicated fundamentalists, then brother, you’ve never spent a week in Bahrain or Dubai. Hell…youve never spent a DAY in any market in the kingdom.
What I SAID was that it is wrong to state “the SAUDIS” support terror…as wrong as it is to say “The Americans support Bush”, or “THE AMERICANS support the KKK”...some? Sure. But all??? Or even MOST??? That’s just foolishness.
Report thisBy Jim C, January 31, 2009 at 3:22 pm Link to this comment
Vancemack , good grief man I don’t know why I waste my time replying . ” The Saudis don’t support terrorism ” , say what ? Have you ever bothered to check who bankrolled al qaeda , the taliban , madrasas or just about every other sunni jihadist group ? The Saudies have been sponsering terrorism for years , discretly of course and our government knows it as does anyone who pays attention . Yeah , they are starting to go after their own home grown terrorists , but only because they have begun trying to overthrow the house of saud . Without Saudi support a large majority of terrorist organiztions would have to peddle sand for funding . Have you ever checked where a huge preportion of terroists are from , who do you think’s funding them , Brazil ? As for your “Terrorists are terrorists. Seriously…’ statement , well , yeah , it’s a tactic , guess what , they don’t consider themselves terrorists , they believe they’re fighting for some noble cause . You ever heard the axiom ” one man’s terrorist is another mans freedom fighter ” ? What would you call someone who bombs a house full of women and children trying to kill one , uh , terrorist ? Or that tortures people to death , to spread democracy of course , or that invades and occupies a country on false pretenses ? Remember , 15 of the 911 perpitraters were “”” Saudies ” , the funder was a “”“” saudi ” the planners were “”“” saudies ” , Iraq has never attacked us . The weapons we were looking for as a pretense , we sold them , the genocide , we could have easily stopped . The only reason Sadam invaded Kuwait was because he was given the green light by us , he was amazed at out response . Now about your ” silly ” comments about the free arab states ( you forgot Bahrain ) those are countries like Disneyland , Las vegas or Monico are countrys , there’s probably a hundred of them on the arabian peninsula . What they really are is playgrounds for rich arabs who want to drink liquer , have sex with young Iraqi girls or other whiteslaves and have residences away from their restrictive suffocating cultures . Most are nothing but pieces of sand where some tribe pitched a tent and found oil . Most ( all ) have legions of foreign workers , practically slaves ( some actually ) . You couldn’t even visit unless you were either filthy rich or wanted to serve the filthy rich . Oh yeah , about your stupid comment ” They don’t endorse terror…they in fact walk a very delicate line with the religious extremists within the Saudi borders.” They are religious extremists , do you know anything about saudi arabia at all ? The saudi tribe made an agreement in the 18 hundreds with a radical fundamentilist islamist to take over the country ” Arabia ” and install the house of saud as the ruling clan . The agreement was that wahabism would be the form of islam they practiced . Wahabism is one of the most radical forms of islam , Bin laden is nothing but a garden varity wahabi and the saudi madrasas are where the radicalism is spread throughout the area . The taliban practice an offshoot of the same dogma . To say the saudies are victims of some fundamentalist meanys shows amazing ignorance of both the area and the culture . About your amazing statement ” bush didn’t lie ” and that roves being picked on , pathetic .
Report thisBy KalPal, January 31, 2009 at 11:57 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
Why is Saddam’s so called genocide a cause for war and the killings in Africa not so much?
Can we prosecute the people who sold him the poison gas that was used? How about the guys who supplied him with weapons to fight Iran, are they culpable?
The USA had no valid cause to attack Iraq. Some so called smart men worked out an ignorant plan to reform the world by forcing Iraq into becoming a Democracy. Their plan would have worked had there not been humans involved. Those damn humans just don’t get it that plans made up by Americans conservatives must be followed through even if they are stupid plans.
Report thisBy Trithoverlies, January 30, 2009 at 12:14 pm Link to this comment
The Real Criminals here are every leftist who wants to put anyone in prison who doesn’t agree with there agenda. The La. A.C.J.U. chairman who wanted to put two gideons in jail, or the S.C. Chairman that said every Christian should be locked up. So whats new the Left wants Bush in prison and the terrorist out, while Clinton aid gets slap on the wrist for theft and destruction of Top Secret Government Documents what’s new you say your all for free speach but than try to muzzle anybody that disagress with their point of view well we have a Constitution that believes in your right to mouth off and my right to mouth off so stop lying and trying to silence us we have not attempted to silence you unless what you said was actually against the law. Freedom of speach is a two edged sword if you denny my right to speak out than we no longer have a republic but a new tyrany that will than muzzle any descent
Report thisincluding yours. Stop pointing at the splinter in someone else’s eye before you take the plank out of your own. Morality in Politics is no longer welcome by either party only tow the party line no speaking up for the down trodden by the way the latest P.E.W. research is in guess who pays more to charity Liberal or Conservative? Conservatives two to one so stop telling the world the lie that liberals are more compassionent when the truth is that Conservatives volunteer more and give more to charities which should cause you over on the left to up your giving and volunteering rather than calling the right abunch of nasty little names the crimes committed by Clinton and his gang should be investigated they should be made to pay for the young men they left in the lurch in Mogandishu the crime they committed was not going in to save those young men who had put their trust in a Government that left them to depend on the U.N. which is the same saying we sent you there now die.
Trithoverlies/Truthoverlies.
John R. Bloxson Jr.
By vancemack, January 29, 2009 at 11:46 pm Link to this comment
Now to Jims silly comments.
The Saudi Arabians dont support terrorism. Thats as generic and stupid as saying America supports the KKK or America supports Al Qaida because some people in America MAY support those organizations.
The fact is that the Saudi Royal Family does a fairly good job of battling terorist’s and terror within the Kingdom. They don’t endorse terror…they in fact walk a very delicate line with the religious extremists within the Saudi borders.
The next hodgepodge of comments are immaterial to the argument of genocide…Bush was not president when the Hallabja massacre occurred (when that nice man Saddam gassed an entire community, men, women, and children). Oh…wait…that COULDNt have happened because Saddam didnt HAVE chemical weapons…right? Oh…wait…he must have used them all…all of them that his scientists had been working on since the 1979 and all those other ones that Iraqi leaders had been working on since the 60’s.
Look since “THIS…IS…TRUTHDIG!!!” sorry…cant help myself…the truth is that Saddam is responsible for the slaughter of somewhere between 1.5 and 2.25 MILLION people in Iraq. That IS genocide.
As for the peace and freedom Iraqis enjoyed…umm…really? Well…I mean UAE, Kuwait, Turkey, Qatar…they are all relatively free..in fact all of the NON Fundamentalist Arab states are relatively free…but well…man…I just dont even know where to start…so…sure…Saddam was a helluva guy…just misunderstood. Human Shredders, murderous Republican Guard…oh…never mind…I’ll just accept your side because THIS IS TRUTHDIG!!!
Report thisBy vancemack, January 29, 2009 at 11:45 pm Link to this comment
Now to Jims silly comments.
The Saudi Arabians dont support terrorism. Thats as generic and stupid as saying America supports the KKK or America supports Al Qaida because some people in America MAY support those organizations.
The fact is that the Saudi Royal Family does a fairly good job of battling terorist’s and terror within the Kingdom. They don’t endorse terror…they in fact walk a very delicate line with the religious extremists within the Saudi borders.
The next hodgepodge of comments are immaterial to the argument of genocide…Bush was not president when the Hallabja massacre occurred (when that nice man Saddam gassed an entire community, men, women, and children). Oh…wait…that COULDNt have happened because Saddam didnt HAVE chemical weapons…right? Oh…wait…he must have used them all…all of them that his scientists had been working on since the 1979 and all those other ones that Iraqi leaders had been working on since the 60’s.
Look since “THIS…IS…TRUTHDIG!!!” sorry…cant help myself…the truth is that Saddam is responsible for the slaughter of somewhere between 1.5 and 2.25 MILLION people in Iraq. That IS genocide.
As for the peace and freedom Iraqis enjoyed…umm…really? Well…I mean UAE, Kuwait, Turkey, Qatar…they are all relatively free..in fact all of the NON Fundamentalist arab states are relatively free…but well…man…I just dont even know where to start…so…sure…Saddam was a helluva guy…just misunderstood. Human Shreddars, murderous Republican Guard…oh…never mind…I’ll just accept your side because THIS IS TRUTHDIG!!!
Report thisBy vancemack, January 29, 2009 at 11:25 pm Link to this comment
Sigh…
Jim Jim Jim…
Terrorists are terrorists. Seriously…THATS your argument? Saddams support of global terrorism doesnt count because 15 of the terrorists from 9-11 were from Saudi Arabia???
Genocide is genocide. If you don’t AGREE that Saddam’s genocide in Iraq was justification for war…FINE. I guess we should convene a war crimes tribunal for Clinton too…right? But…THAT’S NOT THE POINT. People are calling for Bush to get the frog march for lying about the war. He didn’t lie. His reasons were FACTUAL regardless of whether or not you AGREE with them.
The argument regarding the refusal to comply with UN resolutions is also fallacious. That he didnt comply with UN resolutions is undeniable. If you dont think thats a just reason…well..again…fine…but Congress DID.
The torture argument…again…Congress was informed, senior dem leadership knew about it from day one (along with the warrantless wiretapping program). The courts have always affirmed them as being OK.
Not liking it, not agreeing with it…even THINKING something is criminal is irrelevant provided that it is NOT criminal.
And BTW…Karl Rove is always the target first mentioned. Why? He was not an elected official and had no power to make policy…only advise.
Hate if you will…despise all you want, but there has to be criminal activity.
Mow…PERSONALLY? I would LOVE to see the dems start the charade. I WANT to see them squirm and explain why and how they are ‘so’ indignant when in fact they were totally involved.
Report thisBy Jim C, January 29, 2009 at 4:21 pm Link to this comment
Vancemark , your first comment only works if you get to define who’s a terrorist . Sadam was giving payments to bombers who hit Israel , who he ( and the rest of the arab world ) consider a terrorist state . The Saudies ( our buddies ) were supporting and financing the very ( terrorists ) who actually attacked us , a minor detail our mindless conservative brethern always overlook . If you remember 15 of the terrorists who hit us were Saudies , none were Iraqis . Your ” genocide ” comment is laughable . We could have easily stopped it but did nothing . We encouraged the Kurds to revolt and then stood by and did nothing when he crushed it , with chemical weapons we had sold him . You may want to look at how many UN resolutions Israel has violated , we don’t seem to mind . Iraq was also in a box from all the sanctions we applied . The inspectors we sent in found nothing and stated as much ( and still do ) , we have controlled the entire country for years and have found nothing because there’s nothing to find . As far as the silly statement about what a big meany Sadam was , he allowed more religious freedom than almost any Islamic country with the possible exeception Turkey . Women had more rights than in any arab country , he also kept civility between the shia and sunni , they lived in the same neighborhoods , intermarried and lived in peace and had a first rate educational system . Was he a dictator , well yeah , but every arab country has some form of dictatorship . You want brutal check out our buddies the Saudies or the Yemonies or the Iranians they’re all brutal by civilized standards . By the way , the death and distruction we inflicted on Iraq rivals anything Sadam ever did . About your comment about hating bush , I for one loath the air he breaths and would like nothing better than to know he’s rotting in a cell , which he desperatly deserves along with his whole filithy gang .
Report thisBy vancemack, January 29, 2009 at 12:31 pm Link to this comment
Mr Smith, you are the liar.
1-Iraq hid terrorists, housed them, allowed them to train in Iraq, and gave money for suicide bombers. Dont believe me? Look at the words, of Gore, Daschle, Clinton(s)...et al.
2-Im sorry…in your response about genocide was there anything at all resembling a rebuttal? Madeline Albright, Ted Kennedy, All Gore, they all seemed to think Saddam was evil for committing acts of genocide on his own people too. And SINCE democrats supported the war in Bosnia with the SOLE justification for war being genocide, well…kinda tough to refute that point.
3-Your comments about Iraq complying with UN inspections are LAUGHABLE. Why the HELL do you think they PASSED 17 different resolutions? William Cohen, Clintons defense secretary described Iraqs usual form of ‘compliance’ thusly: “I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons…I saw evidence back in 1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those trucks out.”
Iraq never accounted for the missing TONS of biological spores or delivery systems. Iraq refused to tell of the disposition of vats and barrels of chemical weapons that were documented by UNSCOM following the first Gulf War.
Face it…ya hates him…ya just hates him! Facts mean nothing to you.
“As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.”—Nancy Pelosi, December 16, 1998
“We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction.”—Ted Kennedy, September 27, 2002
“I will be voting to give the president of the United States the authority to use force - if necessary - to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security.”—John F. Kerry, Oct 2002
“We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandates of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them.”—Carl Levin, Sept 19, 2002
Report thisWe ONLY know today what we know because Bush didnt GIVE Hussein 8 years to hide, trade, sell, bury, or whatever the hell else they did with their existing stockpiles.
By ender, January 29, 2009 at 10:46 am Link to this comment
To add a few more tidbits of information that our supposedly leftist media neglected during DickBush’s rush to their illegal war:
Prior to our invasion, Iraq had more Christians and Jews living there than any other Arabic state.
Iraq had the highest per capita number of engineers in the world. Women in Iraq held high office and were professors who taught men. This is never allowed in Muslim theocracies.
Rumsfeld knew that Iraq had WMDs at one time because he had the receipt.
Only the extremely low approval ratings of DickBush prevented them from invading Iran. Iran is at least 7 yrs from having material to even develope on nuclear device. All the sword rattling is because IRAN HAS STOPPED TRADING OIL IN DOLLARS AND IS ATTEMPTING TO CREATE A EURO BASED OIL BOURSE. And you are correct in saying that is the primary reason we have destroyed a nation that was no threat to us, killing at least 500,000 humans, causing the exile of 2-3 million more, guranteeing a Shia/Iran takeover and leaving millions of pounds of depleted uranium powder blowing across desert sands for the next thousand yrs. The other reason of course is that Pappy Bush is Chairman of the Board of the Carlisle group whose holdings have made billions from the war against Iraq.
Report thisBy Mark E. Smith, January 29, 2009 at 4:22 am Link to this comment
Facts?
Vancemack wrote:
“1-Iraq supported global terrorism. Not a lie…factually proven”
Not so. Iraq was a secular country and Sadaam opposed religious extremists. He and bin Laden were enemies. It was the United States that supported the Taliban (even sending them over $40 million just a few months before 9/11 when they were harboring bin Laden who was on our terrorist list), and it was the United States that recruited Al Quedah to fight the Russians. Accusing Sadaam of what we were doing and what he did not do, is a lie, not a fact.
“2-Iraq and Hussein engaged in routine acts of genocide-ethnic cleansing. Also a fact and also the ONLY reason given by Clinton when he took us to war against Serbia…a little conflict that no one seemed to object to.”
Plenty of people objected. Sadaam Hussein at that time was supported by the U.S. and did nothing without our prior consent and approval. The U.S. only turned against him when he threatened to open a Euro-based oil bourse instead of continuing to peg oil to the U.S. dollar. The United States has often engaged in genocide and in fact was founded on the basis of the genocide of Native Americans. As long as he didn’t threaten the dollar, the United States was not at all concerned about anything Sadaam did, and in fact provided him with weapons.
“3-Iraq and Hussein refused to give an accounting of their WMD program as mandated by 17 separate UN resolutions. Also undeniable.”
Undeniable? It is a baldfaced lie. Sadaam complied with the weapons inspections. It was the United States, determined to invade Iraq, that didn’t care.
“Agree or disagree with any of those three points or the reasons, but the facts remain facts.”
They are not facts. They may be your beliefs, but they are lies, put out as disinformation to gain public support for a war of aggression. The rest of your post was accurate. The Democrats are complicit and therefore not in a position to prosecute torture and war crimes.
Report thisBy joey, January 28, 2009 at 8:12 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
Masters of the Universe?
Report thisA brief history of the last decade of the crime which caused the present crash
was more of a mind set or a culture than a organized crime spree.
To pretend the wealth of the world all comes out of Wall Street was
fun but was never true. Wall street provides a service to the business world and
could be replaced by a computer network..
Take over Citibank on Tuesday, fire everyone with any rank on Wednesday
sell it to a competent replacement group on Thursday.
Look at Bank of America next week.
By Cornerstone, January 28, 2009 at 8:03 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
Everyone wants Bush’s head on a platter and his co-horts as the side dishes.
If we would have been attacked a second time on our soil you same people bitching about his torture tactics, reasons for war, etc would be screaming he was worthless because he didn’t have the guts to do what was necessary to protect our country.
Peace through superior fire power. I can not fathom those that honestly believe if we talk nice to the rest of world they will treat us nice. No, we do not need to be bullies and aggressive to the rest of the world, but we do need to be vigilant and protect our interests. The US needs to be proactive, not reactive, to security concerns.
When the next attack hits the US, and it will happen, I wonder how many of you will be screaming for Obama’s head because he should have done more. Maybe Obama can get Hamas, al qaeda, and all other terrorist groups together, hold hands and sing Kumbya together. Then we will have world peace, because we know if the US is nice to world, they will be nice to us.
You all have to remember, Democrats supported the war and were in on the intelligence briefings that approved the methods you so complain about.
As long as the “we vs them” mentality (Dem vs Rep) continue our government will not improve. We need bipartisan approaches to running our county. Obama preaches “change” and “bipartisanship” but he has been following the democratic line of spend, spend spend. Plus, he is relying on the same financial “experts” that got us in this mess in the first place.
Report thisBy Ron davison, January 28, 2009 at 1:14 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
I am righting a book called centigrade 451.
Report thisThis is the temperature that hard drive’s one’s and zero’s disappear.
Copyright 2009
By Dave Schwab, January 28, 2009 at 11:39 am Link to this comment
Tell Congress to support HR 104 and establish a National Commission on Presidential War Powers and Civil Liberties. GreenChange.org lets you tell your representatives in Congress to support an investigation; just go to http://tinyurl.com/85zrq4
Report thisIf we let Bush escape accountability, then we invite similar abuses of power by future administrations. Hey, it only takes a minute to stick up for the Constitution.
By vancemack, January 28, 2009 at 9:06 am Link to this comment
Hippy Pam…I agree…for all the rhetoric…Bush will never be prosecuted. But not for the reason you cite.
Why? Simple…Staff notes show senior Democrats in attendance in meetings and briefings where water boarding and other ‘torture’ techniques were used. Once you start holding trials, all those names will come and Ms Pelosi and Mr reid et all will have a LOT of ‘splainin to do.
Democrats repeatedly voted to support the war on terror. Kind of tough then to prosecute someone for something you supported and sustained.
People will say Bush lied to take us to war, but the fact is that Bush cited 17 reasons with three primary reasons in his address that lead to the votes for war:
1-Iraq supported global terrorism. Not a lie…factually proven
2-Iraq and Hussein engaged in routine acts of genocide-ethnic cleansing. Also a fact and also the ONLY reason given by Clinton when he took us to war against Serbia…a little conflict that no one seemed to object to.
3-Iraq and Hussein refused to give an accounting of their WMD program as mandated by 17 separate UN resolutions. Also undeniable.
Agree or disagree with any of those three points or the reasons, but the facts remain facts.
You will be hard pressed to distinguish between the speeches and words of the Bush administration regarding Iraq and the speeches and words of the Clinton administration. Democrats en masse supported Clintons views on regime change in Iraq and Husseins WMD threat.
So…that makes it rather difficult to prosecute someone for doing something that democrats spent 8 years supporting in both the current administration AND 8 years in the previous administration.
Report thisBy FilmDog, January 28, 2009 at 8:28 am Link to this comment
The point of this article, as I read it, is that GW Bush and crew should be prosecuted for crimes committed while in office. That sounds like a very good idea, and one for which there may be widening public support as more and more people experience the fallout from this malfeasance.
In arguing for this position those of us who believe in it should be careful not to attach other issues to it. Some things done by the last administration were clearly criminal, while other acts or policies arose from a benighted view. For instance, most of us here see the Bush approach to “family planning” as a clear example of conservative religious interference in everyday life, but there is probably no fraud, theft, or other clearly criminal activity involved.
Similarly, the devastating “War On Drugs”, which has resulted in far more death and destruction than all the illnesses and deaths caused by illicit drugs themselves, is an expected product of an authoritarian approach to law enforcement and public safety. Stupidity and childlike views on right-and-wrong are obviously poor tools for governing, but they aren’t crimes.
When it comes to the country’s involvement in overseas affairs it is equally important to separate poor policy from fraud. For eight years this country’s leaders chose to ignore disasters of a scale that makes Katrina look like just another rainy day, and we have backed governments that routinely brutalized their citizens and residents. An anti-Islamic bias in governmental dealings has clearly harmed the country’s credibility in a large part of the world, and ironically has probably brought less security to the state of Israel. But none of that is criminal.
Let’s see if as liberals we can pull together a broad consensus on the single issue of prosecution for acts that are easily defined as crimes. We’ll know that we’re being successful when we get members of right-to-life organizations, the NRA, and some Israel PACs to climb on board. An awful lot of people in this country feel that they been financially robbed, and a significant number are connected in some way to the personal losses associated with a war that was based on lies.
Murder and theft are good crimes to prosecute. So are torture and violation of due process, but they may be harder to sell to a populace that’s licking its own wounds. More subtle matters, or those having to do with damage done to people in other lands are a losing cause. That includes our having caused up to half a million deaths of Iraqi citizens and the uprooting of more than 10 percent of the population of that sad country (which puts the estimate of the number of war-related refugeees at 2.5 million!)
Let’s hear it for Solidarity.
Report thisBy Bertil, January 28, 2009 at 8:19 am Link to this comment
After I saw the pictures of Abu Graib, the nature of the torture, the nude bodies piled on top of each other with the mitlitary and CIA looking on, as directed by Rumsfeld and Bush, I talked to a friend from Russia and we were both taken by the evil, perverse nature of the whole scene. We came away with the same idea, some basic spiritual law of nature has been not only broaken but trashed.
Report thisI feel the soul of this country is at stake. After a long history including genocide of indigenous peoples, slavery, not to mention the criminal activity of this government in its imperial pursuits abroad, it seems like high time for a day of reckoning. This economic disaster might be the straw that broke the camel’s back.
It seems that they don’t want to put in jail anyone who looks them. That if you pay it lip service the whole thing will go away. After all, they’d purport, that the real job of every American is to get his or hers and nevermind that what it says in that “goddam piece of paper” the Constitution.
By sal3, January 28, 2009 at 7:22 am Link to this comment
To blame “the law”, or even that morally bankrupt Bush administration is a bit like trying to clap with one hand, or looking for your lost keys in a room because it has more light than the room where you know you lost them. The missing part of all this is that we the people have been so disengaged from the business of American democracy that we allowed the infiltration of it by crooks, cronies and corporatists. WE (present company excepted, of course) went to sleep at the wheel until just recently but now we’ve got decades of missed learning opportunities to make up for before we can get to the true Root Causes for the painful Symptoms we’re suffering.
Most painful issues we’re suffering today are SYMPTOMS, not ROOT CAUSES, which in some cases go back many decades. The result is a squandering of tremendous amounts of precious time, good intent and resources, leaving the Root Causes to infect the future unabated. A good analogy would be a person who relies on ever increasing pain killers rather than learning proper dental hygiene to prevent decay in the first place. It’s an apt analogy as our system is now sick and we’re becoming a social pariah in the global community.
Sticking with this analogy, we’ve got to go thru some painful corrective action. Then we’ve got to learn to stay smart and involved with bedrock issues and adopt a healthy regimen of citizenship for the rest or our lives.
Report thisBy Jim Yell, January 28, 2009 at 6:57 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
Obama is both right and wrong about investigation and prosecution of Bush/Cheney. He is very wrong in believing the future is disconnected from the past. I continue to maintain that without investigation and prosecution for the many crimes, not to mention criminal negligence of the past administration the stage is set for this wrongs to be repeated.
The same is going on in the corporate world as I read today that the corporations that received bail out money are using them to bribe congress. Yes it is bribery when corporations send huge amounts of money into the political system, they do not do it out of kindness and they expect it will get them the waviers of regulation that they want.
Madoff amongst others should be considered flight risks and kept in jail for their trials and many others should be arrested now.
Report thisBy Sean, January 28, 2009 at 6:45 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
Basically there are two types of American. Those who are willing to admit and face up to the mistakes and faults that our country has made throughout history and those of us who deny even the ability for the US to do any wrong whatsoever.
Report thisOur government has become a majority of politicians who will not admit to any US wrong doing ever. How can we expect elected officials to make change and hold people accountable for crimes if they don’t believe that we are capable of making any mistakes. After all God is always on our side so why should we worry about the details such as torture and domestic spying etc.
It does lift my spirits a bit when i hear our new president speak in full sentences and use language that does not always assume that America is righteous.
By hippy pam, January 28, 2009 at 6:41 am Link to this comment
There will be nothing done….ever…...to bush and company…...there will never be any charges filed and payments demanded and/or received…..
WHY?......Because WE-THE SHEEPLE- do not have the collective guts to make big enough noise and insist CRIMINALS in government BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE…..
we need a good “boston tea party” in the U.S. hosted by “the fed up citizens”.........
Report thisBy Verne Arnold, January 28, 2009 at 4:40 am Link to this comment
Oh, silly me, I forgot; the law is for us, not for them…..
http://iauthorbooks.blogspot.com/
Report thisBy Mark E. Smith, January 28, 2009 at 3:18 am Link to this comment
The law doesn’t apply to the rich. The law has never applied to the rich. The law is an arse.
Report thisBy Verne Arnold, January 28, 2009 at 2:10 am Link to this comment
When I see the moral bankruptcy that has become America; I fail to understand how we can move forward without prosecuting all of the egregious crimes of the last administration. We have been first to point out the crimes of others on many occasions; not to do so now, will show us to be the hypocrites we are. The only real lesson for the world is: If you’re powerful enough; you can do and get away with anything. Not something I’d like my kids to believe.
Report thisBy VirginiafromVirginia, January 27, 2009 at 9:31 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
I suspect Barack Obama “suggested” ? “promised” George W. Bush that there would be no investigation of Bush administration wrong doing. Was it kinda strange that Bush didn’t pardon all and sundry in his administration?
Report thisBy Frank Newman, January 27, 2009 at 8:31 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
All Points by Amy well taken: We need to show the American people how despicable Senator Coryn from Texas is when he attempts to hold up the nomination of Eric Holder at Attorney General because he’s afraid that the AG will prosecute for war crimes. Holder needs to appoint Elizabeth DelaVega as the independent prosecutor. She already has the case pretty well set up in US vs George W Bush, et ali. For those with any doubts about war crimes and other illegal acts start off with this reading list: Fiasco, Hubris, Against All Enemies, Worse Than Watergate, On the Brink, The Price of Loyalty, The One Per Cent Doctrine,The Dark Side,The Terror Presidency. Articles that can be found on the Internet: “The Downing Street Memo”; “The Second Pentagon Papers” Salon.com; “The Memo” The New Yorker Magazine; The Court Martial of Willy Brand” CBS News; “The Torture Memo” The Nation Magazine; “Bush’s Pentagon Papers:The Urge to Confess” Tomdispatch.com; “Mild Penalties in Militay Abuse Cases” LA Times; “Tortured Reasoning” Vanity Magazine. Robert Mueller, head of the FBI, admitted in the Vanity article that he could think of no terrorist attack that had been prevented by enhanced interrogation techniques.
Report thisBy knowbuddhau, January 27, 2009 at 6:35 pm Link to this comment
[[[Full-Spectrum Dominance / Our Shared Narrative of Our Shared Becoming///[[[{{{Truth}}}]]]
Full-Spectrum Dominance over this right here: our shared narrative of our shared becoming, powered by sequestering the Truth.
beloved/[{Truth}]/Beloved
Truth is at the heart of this our more perfect Union; it is the still point, the hub, of “the axis of the wheel of life,” where one relaxes and gets the feel of Life, and so on.
Report thisBy Roy, January 27, 2009 at 6:22 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
We will read as long as TV is so numbingly bad. Furthermore, non-fiction is much more interesting than anything anyone could make up. There will be new books detailing the crimes of the last three decades (featuring the same recurrent characters). Here’s a quote from 1970’s author and New Orleans DA Jim Garrison. “I fear that fascism will come to America in the name of National Security.”
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