Why don’t you all take your religious controversies to a religious forum?

John Bloxson—-I just finished reading your comments.
You appear to know the Bible quite well so I thought
I’d run some things by you to get your response.
I guess I should preface my questions and comments
with the fact I’ve been studying the Bible for more
than 32 years.  Let’‘s just start IN THE BEGINNING
in Genesis where our loving Father in Heaven places
Adam and Eve in a garden with a bunch of trees and
tells them they can eat of all the trees BUT ONE!
Now this same loving God who created the complexities
of the universe along with the complexities of the
small cell surely knows something about HUMANS since
he created them.  God knows ahead of time that you
don’‘t tell a human NOT TO DO SOMETHING because it
is just a matter of time before they are going to
do it.  My question;  IF GOD DIDN’T WANT THE HUMANS
TO EAT OF THE TREE WHY DID HE PLACE IT THERE IN THE
FIRST PLACE?  I use to teach Child Development.
Children are curious.  When they learn to crawl they
are going to explore their environment to learn
something about their environment.  They will use
their senses in the learning process.  They will
look at, touch, taste, smell, and listen to
objects in their environment. Since their eye-to-
hand coordination skills are not yet fully developed they will at times knock objects over and break them.  I use to inform parents not to place a child
in a playpen which limits their ability to crawl
and learn about their environment.  Therefore, I
also had to inform parents to take objects they
don’t want broken and place them outside the reach
of the child.  Now, if I, in my lowly human wisdom,
know it is not wise to place objects within the
reach of a child if I don’t want that child to
touch the object, why didn’t God in all his infinite
wisdom know NOT TO PLACE A TREE IN A GARDEN if he
didn’t want Adam and Eve to eat of it?  I’ll wait
for your response.

Be-real——I don’t think it is “pushy” Christians
that preach about burning in hell.  I think Jesus
Christ preaches about burning in hell.  Better set
that straight.

It is everyones right to believe in what they choose but America has been given toooooooooo much freedom. This is chaos. It just happens to be a fact that when our country all followed one similar set of beliefs and ideas, Christianity, we were all to an extent on the same page.Christianity preached love compassion, and most of all forgiveness and acceptance. I think many people are soured by the “pushy” christians that yell about burning in hell. A true christian is not about any of that. That is what is so misfortunate is that there are many branches of christianity as there are individuals which we all want to be recognized for and everyone keeps putting them in one single category. Its just like the idea that a few permiscous girls wreck it for all or one trashy person that lives in a trailer gives all people that live in trailer parks a trashy name. come on!!!! We are all smarter that that. The reason why people feel that God could change things around it cuz it gives us faith and hope to believe in something greater than us.Faith is a strong tool. On a diffent note, now it is actually more of a “trend” to be atheist or agnostic. I feel that more people become agnostic or atheist simply to rebel against a common belief, to be different. Just to state a claim or be part of a not so excepting cause. Once again, to fight about something. Christianity preaches kindness and togetherness. But just as you atheists have the right to say how you feel, so do I. If I want to pray in school, it is a first amendment violation of my rights to take that away if I am not pushing anyone else to listen. Forcing a whole class to pray is violating your right to freedom of religion. Lets stop fighting.

AMERICA’S MORAL DECLINE WILL CONTINUE!

I know you believe I have sold out but I feel blessed to have found the answers in Christ
*************************************************

No, it’s no that I think you sold out.  But the pain you’ve been in is beyond my capacity to pass judgment upon.  I just appreciate that you understand that what we each find to help give us peace must never come via force or coercion.  It is not my right to tell you not to make your choice, as it is not yours to tell me not to make mine.

**************************************************
whether you ever do are not now stand are falls depending on you so let me say this and I will leave it alone I hope you will not take offense if I pray for you, and if you say that would offend alright I won’t but until you answer I will because God tells us to pray for one another.
***************************************************

I am not offended.  But don’t pray for me.  Pray that our leaders find their moral backbones and start doing the right thing.

Inherit the wind,
I will never force you to convert to Christianity and any one calling themself a christian must abhore those who ether browbeat you are threaten you. You know the score so there is nothing I can say now that will chang your mind it now lies between you and the Creator. I know you believe I have sold out but I feel blessed to have found the answers in Christ whether you ever do are not now stand are falls depending on you so let me say this and I will leave it alone I hope you will not take offense if I pray for you, and if you say that would offend alright I won’t but until you answer I will because God tells us to pray for one another.

  I was just looking at the tax problems facing many of our elected officials on both side of the aile and so a new name added Al Franken owes $50,000 to some 32 states and I think back and wonder what happened to trying to clean up government it seems that the Senators and Congress person all are hot to tax us but want to shade the deal when it comes to themselves.  Should we think about a tax payers revolt here and force them all to clean up their acts and if they still don’t understand should we as americans demand their recall and replace everyone who is caught in this scandals what do you think on this subject I have paid my taxes like clock work so I feel I have a right to complain about this double standard that seems to exist.
          Trithoverlies/Truthoverlies.
              John R. Bloxson Jr.

Mr. Bloxson,

I am sorry you have had to deal with so much aimlessness and then horror in your life—I truly am.  And bad things happen to good and innocent people, sometimes due to pure dumb luck and others due to the evil in other people.  I hope your religion gives you the comfort you need—I don’t begrudge it to you.

But I advocate neither hedonism, nor “survival of the fittest”. It is possible to live a full, happy, productive and ethical and moral life.  I know this: My father did.  He described himself as an Atheist, but, based on my discussions with him, acknowledged that he really was Agnostic.  Dad lived through tough times and good, took care of a crippled brother and his family (none of whom ever even acknowledged what he had done for them), established community programs, refused to take Viet Nam war contracting when it would have made him rich, and faced Death with an equanimity few who believe in an afterlife ever have.  He adored my mother to his dying day, and she, him. 

He told me, in his last year, when he knew he had 6 months to live “I’ve lived a good and full life. I’m not afraid of dying—everybody dies.  I just don’t want it to hurt, and I want to be sure you and your brothers take care of your mother.”  In his will, he wanted his body to go to a medical school to help train doctors—and their response to his gift and my family was touching and astonishing, seeing him as a member of their team, and then meeting my brother and mom and finding out how the things they saw related to his life, and their profound thanks.

I am convinced there is a way to live a happy, joyous and moral life, simply as function of being alive.  The key is self-respect, something that you can only face when you are alone, and look in the mirror, either literally, or figuratively. I know bad things happen, sometimes horrendous things.  But all we can do is make our choices, and always ask: “Is this right or wrong?” and aim for the “right” and avoid the “wrong”. 

I see people fall into the traps of drugs (incl alcohol), lust, and greed and how it leads them to cast away their most precious possession—their self-respect.  I see it around me every day, even in a nondescript office in the middle of New Jersey.  Your father clearly hated himself and had no self-respect, tragically for your brothers and you, in your own private Holocaust.  My father had his, to the lifelong joy of his wife, sons, and grandchildren, all of whom still miss him.

You, clearly, have had to find your self-respect—I’m glad you did. You found it in Jesus—nothing wrong with that.

Unless you try to force ME to find it there as well.

Inherit the Wind.
To live it is not the purpose all animals live but what is thier purpose for living? I have noticed some alarming things over the last 40 years My purpose for living in High School and for three years after in the semi-pro’s was to play football I lived for it I dreamed of a N.F.L. career I studied everthing I could on my positions I ran four miles every day But my god let me down on the eve of going to tryout for the Pros in Chicago I shattered my wrist and was told I could never play agian, Next I worshipped at the alter of hedonism while attending college and almost dropped out during the fourth semester when I attended to many parties and pulled a 1.7 for the semester. This shook the foundations and forced me to reevaluate my life so I turned to the persuit of Education as my god this also let me down because It led me to the very purpose you said just live I lived for the next 12 years with a emptiness I had a good job I went to a party four or five times a year I taught troubled youth in the mountians. But even that let me down when after spending three years working to help the healing proccess to begin from abuse, and after my monthly reports telling the judge that the father wasn’t complying with the mandintory court order to attend AA, and anger manegment classes. So I figured that my documentation on that monday would start the proccess of permenantly taking the brother away from the dad, I was not emotional prepared for the courtorder of handing the boy’s back to an abusive alcoholic father and two weeks to the day after having surrendered them ( brother’s ages 9,7,5) to pick up the local News Paper and see Headlines “Drunken Father kill two sons in a alcohol induced rage and causes the middle boy to be crippled than to recognige the name of the father I lost it and spent the next four years trying to eat my way to happiness that didn’t work either so I was left with nothing but a hollowness your society left me high and dry living that was the purpose just live well that isn’t enough to sustain anyone if they really begin to think about it and there is a growing number that feel it isn’t worth it to live by that you really mean to survive be the fitest but more people find they aren’t the fitest than find they are the fitest Survival isn’t enough and if you have seen the trends they go one of two ways suicide, are become the hedonist living from party to party when surviving becomes to hard so you live but it still means nothing in your world of evolution you and I are just irratents in the exspance of eions dust blowing in the wind, blips here for a short while than gone having made no real tangible differance and than Nothingness.  I think you sell life to short with just living I don’t believe you answered why a person should go to 18 years of School and then through an inturnship, and a residency to live since during that same time you could concentrate on you it does not make sense to do all that and then we die leaving nothing.
          Trithoverlies/Truthoverlies.
            JohnR. Bloxson Jr.
PS. I lived but found it meant absolutly nothing I know that Gid exist and there is a heaven and a hell and that God sends no one to hell they go there over His dead and resurected body.  I have read where one might kill ones self inorder to kill the infidels, but I have yet to hear of a person dying for what they know is a lie. of the 12 disciples one killed himself, ten died martyrs deaths and one died of old age. now when I say Martyrs death I don’t talk about what the Radical muslim does for that’s a murderers death.

The amount of arrogance in your post makes it hard for me to…(take a deep breath, ITW….let it out…)

OK. One doesn’t need to be a Christian to be thoughtful and considerate. I resent your implication that only Christians are thoughtful and considerate. I have seen many self-described “Christians”, who, like yourself AND the minister, lost their self-control and decency in times of stress.  I have NEVER in my life (and I’m 53) lost control like that. Never.  It violates everything I value.

One of MY ways to relieve stress when I confront an @$$hole on the highway or side streets (always a high probability here in the Garden State) is to THEN let in the person who’s trying to get into traffic, or across the street—whatever.  MY revenge on the @$$hole is to be nice to someone else—it works wonders—try it sometime.

But to describe thoughtful and considerate behavior as “Christian” (and, by inference, ONLY Christian) is insulting.  Charity and consideration are SUPPOSED to be part of Judaism, Islam (one of the 5 pillars), Hinduism and Buddhism just as much.

Don’t blame
Jesus for what Christians say and do.
***********************************************

I never do.  I realize that, according to the accepted scripture, he taught love and forgiveness.  I also realize that his words and teachings have been twisted to justify torture, rape, robbery, and genocide.  Kinda of like using Abraham Lincoln to justify KKK lynchings.

He did, however, teach one thing that offends me. He says, I think to Thomas, “You see and believe, but more blessed are those who have not seen, and yet believed.”

This is as fundamental a denial of what makes us human as anything I can imagine.  It says put aside your brain and your judgment and just blindly accept.  How do you know it’s Jesus and not Charlie Manson or James Jones?  The people at Jonestown believed blindly and drank the Kool-aid. (Actually, Flavor-aid) BTW, that’s where “drinking the kool-aid” comes from.

***********************************************
Christians, like antichristians, live in these depraved mortal bodies. 
***********************************************

Bodies are never depraved.  Minds can be, though. If anything is a gift from God, bodies are.  Mine may not be too pretty (and my beautiful wife, thankfully, blinded by love) but it is what makes us human.  I am only anti-christian, when, like the Taliban, they try to force their religion on me and my family, our schools, courts and money.  Otherwise, their choice to be Christian is not my business.

************************************************
By the way, you didn’t respond to my
comment about you having problems with “authority”
figures.
*************************************************

Sure, I did.  I give it the response it merited.

************************************************
Finally, do you think the word “crack-pot”
was necessary in your post?  Of course, you do live
in a depraved mortal body.
************************************************

If you think Germany is now the hot-bed of evil and is going to start the next war, then, yes, I think that’s a crack-pot view.  But don’t worry—I think Folktruther and Robert are much bigger crackpots! (at least FT can laugh about it—humorless Robert can’t)

I don’t live in a depraved body, mortal though it is. I’ve been accused of a depraved mind but I don’t see it.

To Inherit The Wind—-I am not only concerned about
your mental health, I am concerned about the mental
health of all people including myself.  Just because
I am a Christian doesn’t mean I always ACT like a
Christian.  I am somewhat ashamed of this example
but I’ll use it anyway:  Last year, while here in
Florida, I had chest pains, went to my doctor’s
office and he told me to go to the emergency room.
I was backing out of my parking space when a black
fellow behind me kept laying on his horn.  If he
had only honked once I probably would have ignored
the issue.  But he didn’t.  He kept laying on his
horn.  I got out of my car and walked back to his
car. When he rolled his window down, I reached inside
his car grabbed his shirt and said, “Now, you take
that F…ing horn and stick it where the sun doesn’t
shine.”  After I let go of his shirt, he rolled up
his window and called someone on his cell phone. He
followed me to the emergency room.  When we got to
the emergency room there was a police car parked
in front.  We got out of our cars.  The police
officer got out of his car and he was black, just
as the fellow’s shirt I had grabbed.  I thought,
“I don’t stand a chance!”  We walked up to the
police officer who said, “What’s going on between
you guys?”  The fellow screamed, “This guy hit me!”
I replied, “I didn’t hit you.  I grabbed your shirt.”
We argued for awhile.  The police officer ask the
fellow, “Do you want to press charges?” He responded,
“I won’t press charges if he will admit he hit me!”
I said, “I didn’t hit you but I’ll admit it to get
the charges dropped so I can go into this emergency
room.” The police officer got into his car and drove
away.  I said to the fellow, “I’m sorry about grabbing your shirt.  I am a Christian and shouldn’t
have responded the way I did.”  He replied, “You are
a Christian?  I’m a Christian minister.”  We hugged
and made up.  He gave me one of his cards and ask
me to come to his church.  While in the emergency
room I thought, “He’s a Christian minister.  Why
didn’t he back up and let me out of my parking
space?”  I thought about the incident for a few
days swearing I’d try to act more like a Christian.
A couple days latter I was tested.  I made a u-turn
on Highway 1.  The traffic was off in the distance.
Soon, a truck came speeding up right on my bumper
honking his horn.  I looked in the mirror and noticed
two fellows in the truck. I thought, “Here is my
chance to act more like a Christian.”  I stopped,
got out of my car and walked back to the truck.
The young fellow driving rolled down his window.
I said, “If you fellows were Christians you’d have
a little more patience.”  The young boy driving
yelled, “F… Christians.”  Then, he drove around
my car and sped down the highway.  I stood there
watching them speed away and thinking, “I wonder
what’s going to happen to those fellows?  Maybe,
when they get home, they will reflect upon what
I said.”  Inherit, you used the word “Arrogant”
in your post preceding mine.  Of course, as a
Christian, I didn’t have to throw it back into
your face.  As I previously said,  “Christians
don’t always act like Christians.”  Don’t blame
Jesus for what Christians say and do.  Christians,
like antichristians, live in these depraved mortal
bodies.  By the way, you didn’t respond to my
comment about you having problems with “authority”
figures.  Finally, do you think the word “crack-pot”
was necessary in your post?  Of course, you do live
in a depraved mortal body.

“Christian"96—don’t say you’re concerned about my mental health—you are not. It is merely a weak tactic to try to discredit my postings.  I’m sure it’s very convincing—for you and you alone.  I’m not drunk and while I might have “experimented” in the 70’, those days are long, long gone as I have a family to care for, and I do.  You are the one with the crack-pot idea that somehow Germany is the threat to the world…Germany, whose days as the Enemy of Mankind died in that bunker with Adolph Hitler in 1945.

Mr. Bloxson—I can’t make much sense of how you figger that the Bible predicts a heliocentric system.

Your final line is called Pascal’s Wager—it’s not a measure of faith, but, rather, a measure of weakness and Pascal’s cowardice.  If when I die and there’s nothing, I won’t know it, will I? I see a great and logical Universe, where faith and feelings do not advance knowledge, but the Scientific Method does.  If, when I die, I find YOUR view is true, I’ll be terribly disappointed because it will mean that God is NOT logical and rational but capricious.  If there is awareness after death, I cannot see how I’m doomed to eternal pain because of my actions in life.

What is the purpose of life?  Why, to LIVE it!  You presume there is no reason to live, and no foundation for Morality without divinity.  I respectfully disagree.  Joy is a very real thing in live, and Morality is a fundamental component of that life.  If you are stranded on a desert island, all alone, your Morality is all that can save you.  You can’t lie about food, water, and shelter and get it.  You MUST live logically and by your intellect or you will die.  All morality can be derived from those simple truths.

Murder isn’t an evil because God says it is.  Without God it is still an evil.  That should be self-evident. If it isn’t, maybe YOU need to re-examine your thinking.

Yes, I want to be remembered fondly—by my sons and maybe my nieces and nephews at a minimum.  In the meantime, I’m going to enjoy my life, with my wife and children, and do my best to help them grow up to be decent, productive and happy adults.

To Inherit The Wind——-If you call your ranting and
raving “solid logic” you best get off the juice,
dope, or both.  I am concerned about your mental
health.  Some of your comments approach a certain
amount of reasoning and logic.  At other times, your
comments seem to come from “La-La Land.”  Let me
assure you I can’t call hell fire and brimstone down
on you or anyone but there is a higher “AUTHORITY”
who can!  The word “AUTHORITY” seems to bother you.
Your comment “NO scripture of any religion is an
“authority” to me” suggests you might have problems
with AUTHORITY figures.  Has this been true throughout your life?  Satan had problems with the
Ultimate Authority, GOD.  I could quote you a few
New Testament scriptures about Satan’s future but
you don’t accept the New Testament.  My comments
about Germany did not contain anything remotely
related to the United States bombing Germany.  How
you could draw that conclusion from my comments
baffles me.  Your comment just came out of La-La
land.  If you are drinking, doping, or both STOP
IMMEDIATELY!  Perhaps, your mind will reach the
point where your interpretation and reasoning skills
can be “logical” and rational.

Thursday February 5, 2009 19:12

Let’s get the story of our Iran connections and our concerns out.

Let’s discuss thermonuclear suicide bombers and possibly spiked US nuclear weapons.

Sound exciting?

————————————————————————————————————————

Thursday February 5, 2009 19:12

http://www.prosefights.org/nmlegal/theinvestigation/theinvestigation.htm#reedemail

Inherit the wind,
Your world means nothing , then life means nothing,
why would you want to live a long life in a world where their is no meaning? A world devoid of purpose other than like other animal to survive in a dog eat dog world where nothing you do means nothing. Why should in your bleak world a person go to school for 18 years and do an internship and a residency to heal the dying since we are all worm food anyway? Why not just stop get off the rat race and drink yourself into oblivion and stop worrying about survival in your cruel world life actually means nothing so Abort a baby with M.D. or Mental retardation, or any abnormality.  In your world one of the most brilliant minds of the 21 st. century should never have been born.  In your world there is no purpose for any life to live adapt or exist other then some chance encounter with the othe half of the gene sequincing but that doesn’t explain why all humanity searches for purpose, or why all men are born with a foundational moral code and why do you care to survive and than die leaving nothing that means anything behind?  I do not understand why you feel you need to exist if there is no meaning to life? It makes no reasonable sense to want to become a Doctor or scientist in your world without meaning, maybe you see some reason for living but I don’t see it when the only purpose seems to be to survive to old age and die thus ending everthing in nothing. Maybe I am the dense one wanting to lieve a legacy, wanting to be remembered for something, and than when the final page of this life is turnned to be with my savior for eternity this leads me to try hard to live for Him so others will see His light in me. I know you think this is pure hogwash but I have something that sustains me as I live with a debilitating illness and still find beauty in a universe designed by God not by some cosmic accident which again leads to the reason for or the reason against life what will you gain in your long life that ends in nothingness? so why is it worth living if there is no purpose, no reason to survive other then just survive?
        Trithoverlies/Truthoverlies.
          John R. Bloxson Jr.
PS.  Check Isaiah 40:21-22 it does say the earth is round or a circle this written 2760 years ago by a dreamer I find it interesting also that you go right to Joshua 10:12-14 But it says it seemed to take a long time to go down also now the Enemy of Israel came into the field early in the day and the battle raged all the day and it seemed to take a long time for the sun to godown you argued the the earth wold stop but is not it the sun that seemed to slowdown or even could it have been effected by God to make the destruction of Child rapist, and child sacrificers go quiker I am no scientist but the sun and moon stood in the sky during the battle and the sun seemed to take along time going down so what does it mean? well if your right I will never find the answer but if I am right I will have gained everthing while you will have lost everything.

Mr. Bloxson:

Naturally you think YOUR scriptures are the best—that’s a self-fulfilling prophesy, if I may borrow a pun.

But the Bible does NOT say the Earth is round and goes around the sun…Remember Joshua asked God to stop the sun in the sky and God did…Can’t do that in a heliocentric system and a globe. It would mean the earth would have to stop spinning on its axis—at the equator you are traveling at over 1000mph (25,000 miles, 24 hours).  To stop the sun in the sky means slamming on the brakes to an instant stop.  Everyone on earth would be accelerated at 1000mph into whatever.  The oceans would splash up on the land in tidal waves never seen—In current Tsunamis, the shock wave (not the water itself) travels at 500mph until it hits the continental shelf, then exchanges speed for wave height….but the water itself wasn’t moving that fast.  Imagine it was…......................
No, the Bible clearly sees the Earth as flat and geo-centric.

Furthermore, the Hindu sacred scriptures describe an expanding and contracting universe and the current expansion began…..roughly 14 billion years ago, surprisingly close to when The Big Bang is calculated to have occurred.  There’s nothing in the Bible to match that.

Everybody dies.  That’s a truth. “5 to 9, baby, 9 to 5. No one here gets out alive.”  We invent heaven because we are terrified of death, even though we know it’s inevitable, we don’t think it’s going to happen to us. So we invented this game of an “after-life”.  I think dying is probably a lot like getting anesthesia—sinking into true nothingness where ever aspect of your mind shuts down…forever.

I would just like to live a long, productive and happy life so that when it’s time, I’m OK with it. Then I hope somebody, especially my family, remembers me with a smile.  That’s heaven enough for me.

Inherit the Wind.
The Gospel will be preached in every corner of the world before His second Comming and the Bible also says their will be scoffers in the last days, as in the days of Noah they will be eating and drinking and giving in marriage even till the flood comes.  I would take no comfort that some have misread the bible prophecy it is strange how for the first time in History that the Prophecies you quoted could actually happen with Cyber Space and the Increase of knowledge we will have the bible translated into every written and most spoken languages with in the next 5 to 6 years, but you being an agnostic you don’t recognize any scripture right well for a book of Myth the Bible has been proven right more than any other book of the Ancient World and it was the first book of the Ancient world to sugest that the earth was round, orbited the sun and that blood was the key to life and be 99.5% free of even gramatical error so I would take a second look at the Bible it is a phenominal coinsedince that the Archeoligest keep trying to disprove it, and are continually proving it instead.  I want say anything about future punishment but if Jesus is right I wouldn’t look forward to the judgment or end of days as some call them without making friends with the Lamb.
        Sorry about that but we are told to try to convince you that there is more to the Bible than any other religious writing.  And though most have some set of end they do not have the prophetic record of being right and the bible says the only true proofe of prophecy is a 100% accuracy!  325 prophetic announcements about Jesus first visit 125 specific prophacies all fulfilled by only one person in History seems to me to be a pertty good clue that just maybe the Bible is worth a second glance. the Probabilities of that happening is .1 with 180 zeroes behind it.  So on that note I will leave you to ponder youir own falibility just as I was forced to ponder my own some years ago and I for one did not like my odds when all was said and done.
    Trithoverlies/Truthoverlies.
        John R. Bloxzson Jr.

christian96, February 2 at 10:23 pm #

To Inherit The Wind——In Matthew 24:14, JESUS said,
“And this gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached
in all the world for a witness unto all nations;
and then shall the end come.”  With satellite
communication, this prophecy can now be fulfilled.
It couldn’t have been fulfilled at any other time
in history!  Many prophecies predict the restoration
of Israel as a nation after being scattered throughout the nations.  When was Israel restored
as a nation after the destruction in 70AD?  Never!
Until it was restored on May 14, 1948!  Perhaps,
you better become a little more educated about
Bible prophecies before ARROGANTLY shotting off your
mouth!
***********************************

I guess that last bolded line is the “Christian” response! LOL!

Why is it the skypilots always lose their cool when confronted with solid logic?

First, pal, my background never recognized the New Testament as scripture, so your quoting it means nothing to me from that angle.

Second, I’m a “devout” Agnostic, which means NO scripture of any religion is an “authority” to me on anything more than that religion’s dogma.

Third, What’s next from you? If I don’t kow-tow to your beliefs, and shut off my brain you’ll start calling hell-fire and brimstone down on me and tell me that I’m going to roast in hell forever and ever because I don’t subscribe to YOUR brand of Christianity.

I’ll take my chances.

Your “sources” aren’t sources.  In EVERY age the “interpreters” of prophesies ALWAYS assume that the prophesy applies to their time, particularly their religion’s version of the “end of days”.  Funny thing, the days keep coming.

I certainly hope President Obama doesn’t take your warning to heart and decide to bomb Germany.  Happily, I don’t think he will.  BTW, Russia is “north” too.

To Inherit The Wind——In Matthew 24:14, JESUS said,
“And this gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached
in all the world for a witness unto all nations;
and then shall the end come.”  With satellite
communication, this prophecy can now be fulfilled.
It couldn’t have been fulfilled at any other time
in history!  Many prophecies predict the restoration
of Israel as a nation after being scattered throughout the nations.  When was Israel restored
as a nation after the destruction in 70AD?  Never!
Until it was restored on May 14, 1948!  Perhaps,
you better become a little more educated about
Bible prophecies before ARROGANTLY shotting off your
mouth!

christian96, February 2 at 7:54 pm #

To Inherit the Wind—-Time will tell us about Germany.  My sources are reliable.  I’m not saying
there aren’t wonderful loving people in Germany.
There were wonderful loving people in Germany under
Hitler’s rule.  They just didn’t have the power.
*************************************

You know, I searched this thread and the only “sources” you cited are the Bible, a guy who left Islam and a French writer not known to be one of the German historians (Historians OF Germany, not necessarily FROM Germany).

I, for one, prefer predictions based on political, economic, geographic and social analysis to attempting to infer prophesies from scriptural texts. 

Why do the interpreters ALWAYS think the prophesy applies to the current time? How arrogant!

Mr. Bloxson: Remember to count in the pop totals per square mile in the more populated (like the Mississippi Valley) and the less populated areas of the Pre-Columbian Americas.  You are going into economic history and anthropology and these can be very dense sciences.

Remember there were MANY pre-Columbian civilizations, not just Aztec and Inca—and the Mayans were STILL a civilization.  Also remember that the Spanish priests destroyed vast amounts of Aztec records on the grounds that they were “pagan” and therefore evil—even though they couldn’t read them.

To Inherit the Wind—-Time will tell us about Germany.  My sources are reliable.  I’m not saying
there aren’t wonderful loving people in Germany.
There were wonderful loving people in Germany under
Hitler’s rule.  They just didn’t have the power.

Inherit the wind,
Thank you for your thoughtfull response I still believe your numbers or inflated but atleast you don’t tell me I am a nut job as some have.  The site of Mexico City that was once the Aztec capital was the excetption to the rules yes there were about 10 smaller cities that payed tribute in the form of slaves for the ritual sacrifices but most cities in the America’s were no where even close to its size evan in Peru wher a great civilization developed the Inca their farming did not keep up with the population exspansion which cause famine, internecent warfare, and Cohokia the largest mound city If my fact are correct never had more than 20,000 people and it was gone before the Europeans came. Now back to the Aztecs how long did the Aztecs last as a civilization before Cortez and plague took them down a couple hundred years about two hundred they came out of the north to conquor the central Mexican Highlands and did so by attacking and then dominating their captives and adopting the healthiest and strongest into Aztec society sounds alot like the Europeans to me with stronger weapons and better military tactics they subdued the weaker tribes.  The cities of the southwest also were highly organized but it did not stop them from having to break up to survive all before the Spanish and then the French and English so I will stand by my reasoning that the numbers you gave are inflated but please don’t take offense I will continue to check out the Anthroplology web sites to see what they come up with as numbers so I am not just interested in one side I am still open minded enough to say that there is alot about the Natives of the Americas I don’t know and will continue to check into their civilizations.
        Trithoverlies/Truthoverlies.
            John R. Bloxson Jr.

Christian,

You simply are incapable of understanding Western European politics since 1945.

All geo-politics is based on geography. A nation’s needs and actions will be dictated by it no matter what form of government it has, unless it’s run by maniacs.  The only way to change this is change the geography.

In Europe, in 1945, the geography changed and changed drastically.  Germany went from a Central European power, unrecognized as such until too late, to a border nation—the Eastern border of the Western powers.  This forever changed the fundamental dynamic between Germany, France, Italy and Britain.  It was cemented with steel bands of economic relationships.

When the East fell apart and Germany was reunited, it didn’t make it stronger, but made it weaker and Germany has NEVER fully recovered from the re-integration.  However, European Union membership has made the blow softer.  The entry of former enemies into the Union continues to be a revolutionary enterprise.  A united Europe has been a dream since Charlemagne, but only with the EU has it been able to happen by WILLING joining—the EU doesn’t recruit, you have to APPLY for membership and you MUST abide by certain rules to be admitted—and the vote must be unanimous.

The model for the EU is….the United States.  Yup, when the idea was originally proposed, by Austrian-Hungarian social scientist Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi, it was in response to World War I and the fiasco of the League of Nations.

Sure California, New York and Texas can lead the way of other states, but they still must ultimately submit to the will of all—called the Federal Government.  So it is with Germany today, and France, Britain and Italy—the big nations of the EU.  I don’t know one European who doesn’t appreciate that he/she can move from nation to nation as easily as we move from state to state, working, earning, spending, just like we do, and now, in most of the EU, with only one currency, the Euro.

I’m not really writing for you, Christian96.  Your mind is made up and you won’t let yourself be confused with facts. I’m writing for those that don’t want to see your absurd contention left to hang out there unchallenged as if it was the truth. It’s not.  Germany does NOT pose a threat to the world.

To Inherit The Wind——French writer Madame de Stael
wrote, “Germany is the heart of Europe.  Berlin is
Europe’s trendsetter, it’s bellwether, it pacemaker:
It has the largest population and economy of any
European nation, and is without doubt the Continent’s
most influential nation, geopolitically, economically
and militarily.”
When Russia invaded Georgia it drove a wedge between
most European nations except GERMANY.  However, the
climate changed when leaders of European nations
and Russia buddied up to one another at a meeting in Nice, France last November.  At the summit, the EU
showered Russia with promises, including an agreement to resume talks on a new Partnership and
Cooperation Agreement, the possibility of a new
European-Russian security pact, and even the promise that the EU would draw up a “roadmap” to help Russia join the World Trade Organization.  Moreover, GERMANY is the only European state that Russia truly respects.  The Russians understand what few other
people or nations do today: GERMANY IS THE EUROPEAN
NATION TO BE FEARED MOST!

Folktruther, January 31 at 1:21 pm #

The reason, Trith, that power strutures have coopted religious doctrines was to legitimate Divane power to get people to obey the earthly power instituted by the gods.
***************************************

Nothing keeps the peasants in line like promises that their pain WON’T end after death if they don’t obey.

***************************************
And don’t worry about typing with one finger.  I personally respond to many comments by banging my head repeatedly against the keyboard, which, as you see, tends to result in many typos.
****************************************

I can’t tell you how much that explains….

****************************************
Christian, your comment about Germany is so devoid of any particle of sense….ah well.
*****************************************

Good! I thought it was just me scratching my head going ????HUH?????  Germany????  Why not Estonia or Latvia?  Makes about as much sense (as my wife says: Everything is true of the null set)

Folktruther, January 31 at 1:21 pm #

Inherit, you should listen to the prophet Anarcissie, as I should as well.
******************************

LOL!  That’s a prophesy we can count on coming true!

Thank You The answer did not fully answer my question But I was talking about a special end of the cycle event after the capture of 4 or five weaker nations I would go Half the number you stated which I kn ow is bad enough but I still would like to know your source for the numbers you quoted .
        Trithoverlies/Truthoverlies.
          John Bloxson Jr.

The reason, Trith, that power strutures have coopted religious doctrines was to legitimate Divane power to get people to obey the earthly power instituted by the gods.

And don’t worry about typing with one finger.  I personally respond to many comments by banging my head repeatedly against the keyboard, which, as you see, tends to result in many typos.

Christian, your comment about Germany is so devoid of any particle of sense….ah well.

Inherit, you should listen to the prophet Anarcissie, as I should as well.

I have already said that man has done some of the most evil things imaginable under the guize of followining god, but the truth still remains they were not following God but Power. The same is true of men working under the guize of
Darwin I did not mean to imply that Darwin was any more evil than the next man I am almost positive that if he saw to what lengnths some scientist have gone in twisting his words and research he would be horified so it all
********************************************

Mr. Bloxson, I stand by those numbers. I’m not a follower of Marxist historians.  Been there, done, that, been disillusioned.  But the estimates are based on population numbers of who was where and when.

For the next to last king of the Aztecs (before Moctezuma—not Montezuma) to be able to sacrifice 22,000 people in one day implies a vast population, just in the 3 Aztec nations. Remember: In 1550, a MAJOR city in Europe, like Bruges, then one of the most powerful cities in Northern Europe, had all of 50,000 people.  By 1800, Philadelphia had less than 100,000 and was the biggest city in North America.  We now think of New York of having 8,000,000, but when it was the capital of the United States it had less than 50,000.

Just a little close reasoning shows that you can easily see how, in the 400 years from 1492 to 1892, 100 million people in the Americas could have died wrongful deaths.  After all, the Black Death is estimated to have killed 1/3 of Europe—40,000,000.

Tenochtictlan, today’s Mexico City, was far, FAR bigger than any city in Europe when Cortez began his cannon fire against it.

No, I didn’t get the numbers from marxists, and I stand by them.

Buried in the quote of yours above are two truths:

1) People do much evil chasing power and claiming it’s in the name of religion.

2) Darwin would be horrified by how his concepts were twisted. 

But not by legitimate biologists, rather by third-rate social scientists with racist agendas and religious rabble-rousers who had no idea what he was talking about.

I don’t believe in miracles, with one possible exception: The Big Bang.  I see a universe that is completely and totally logical at its foundation.  If there is a God, He didn’t need to create such an imperfect Universe than it needs Him to constantly be violating His own natural law to fix injustices.

Sure, maybe there’s a scientific law or two or a quadrillion we don’t understand, but that STILL doesn’t make them miracles—they still abide by His natural laws. To me, what is called a miracle is either a mis-interpretation of the data, or simply something we don’t yet understand.  I’ve never seen, heard, or experienced a miracle nor do I expect to, with the sole exception of living in the echo of The Big Bang.

I’m back!  Payed my bills had a light workout at
the gym.  I’ve been reading the lively discussions
between Inherit and John.  I’m going to make a
prediction.  Not only did Germany start WW1 and WW2
but they will also start WW3.  They are now the
dominant country in the European Union.  They are
using piracy on the seas to build their naval power.
The Bible discusses evil spirits residing over
certain areas. Daniel 10:11,12 discusses a Holy angel
coming to Daniel and saying, “Fear not, Daniel: for
from the first day you set your heart to understand,
and to chasten thyself before God, they words were
heard, and I am come for thy words.  But the prince
(angel) of the Kingdom of Persia withstood me 21 days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes
(archangel), came to help me.”  The Bible makes the
movie “Star Wars” look like Mickey Mouse.  Because
of Germany’s past and present, I believe evil spirits
reside over Germany.  When they align with the Vatican, Holy hell(excuse the pun) will break loose.
I, also, believe evil spirits reside over Los Angeles
because of the vile porn, movies, television programs, etc. coming out of the Los Angeles area.
I’m going to make another prediction.  Boy, I’m on
a roll tonight.  Must have been that workout at the
gym.  If the antichristian people producing the
vile filth coming out of Los Angeles don’t repent
and quit corrupting people around the world, especially children, they are going to see an
earthquake like they have never seen before.  Either
they stop producing the filth or God will stop it
for them.  You read about it here first folks.
Excuse me, I am going to bake some Salmon and fix
a salad with oil and vinegar.

Sorry you again will find spelling and typing errors in what I just finished please forgive me for these agregess sins
of poor grammer but being one handed some times cause me to slide the arrow and accidentlty hit the wrong bar first.
        Trithoverlies/Truthoverlies.
          John R.Bloxson Jr.
PS Tell me please were you are getting your numbers from so I can see for myself where they come from.
              Thank You.
            John R. Bloxson Jr.

ENHERIT THE WIND.
I know you got your vastly infalated numbers from some one on the far left like Ward Churchill but he is a descredeted proff who would not know the truth if it bit him on th nose so please
stop reading Pravda Means Truth, and taking it for the Gospel.  This same group of leftist have just taken the survival of the fitist to the next level just as scientist today are so inanmored of Embyonic stem Cell research to treak Darwins Ideas of Mutation to their own wish to be Gods so we both may have listened to some of the same arguments and heard what we wanted to I will even agree with you it wasn’t Hitler’s reading of Darwin it was the scientist who thought they could munipulate mutation that led to all the terrible research done in the name of science.  I have already said that man has done some of the most evil things imaginable under the guize of followining god, but the truth still remains they were not following God but Power. The same is true of men working under the guize of
Darwin I did not mean to imply that Darwin was any more evil than the next man I am almost positive that if he saw to what lengnths some scientist have gone in twisting his words and research he would be horified so it all
can be blamed on the practice in every case of unrestrained power on either side of the line but your committ on the numbers of Native Americans slain or so out rages that it saddens me to see a smart person buying them when Anthopologist won’t even back up the numbers you claimed so sorry.
Trithoverlies/Truthoverlies.
    John R. Bloxson Jr.
PS the agricultural societies and hunter geatherer societies could never have sustained the inflated numbers you gave.

Inherit The Wind: ’[These] are 3 of the most unprovable and asinine statements I’ve ever seen posted here. ...’

You’re not conversing with people who have the same notions of evidence and reason that you do.  I prophesy increasing frustration.

I Apologize for any Typos that made it into my last message but I accidently hit the submit button while moving my one good hand during my editting so again I was correcting some spelling errors and making the sentences more readable.
    Trithoverlies/Truthoverlies.
      John R. Bloxson Jr.
PS. I was a History major and a Criminal Justice major in 1984 and Graduated from an accredited school one of the University of North Carolina Campusses the one at Pembroke.

Inherit the Wind
What History book or you reading the one written by our friend Che.  The whole of North, Central, South America in 1500’s as you say could never have fed the numbers you imply in the millions. Now listen up yes what was done by the spannish was terrible but it is being inflated just as the number of witches killed in Europe between 1100 and 1500 not evan hundreds of thousands were killed It is estamated that during the whole 400 year span no more than 50,000 were killed, that is still wrong so please read the whole thing we have achieves that give us a good Idea of the amount of murders compared to the size of population since the end of the middle Ages and the millions that the Divinci Code said Europe could not agriculturely handle those numbers first and second as bad as it was the black death killed more Europeans, than the Spannish killed Indians but please again let me state before you throw daggers at me any number killed either as witch’s in Europe, or Indians Native American in Cental and South America by the Spannish was one to many but Man is a devil do you remmember the story The Lord of The Flies. I do the Boy quikly shed any civilized beliefs and killed piggey remmember man today is no differant all you have to do is look at the gangs running neiborhoods to recognize the immorality of man. If you were to add all the numbers of murderes in San Fransico, and New York city, and Chicago for the last one hundred years I believe you will be supprised but did you know that last year more people were murdered in our nations capital than that were murdered in Israel, The West Bank and Gaza strip. I check this out some months ago and it saddened me terribly so you want to believe the inflated number. Just think the Reason Cahoakia declined was the land could not produce enough for the population that kept growing In fact some of the burial monds showed the onset of malnutrition so you think your talking to someone who has not done the reserch sorry you would be wrong in fact my college research paper was on the history of murder and guess what I recieved an A+ in 1984 on it. Now again I am not condoning the actions of the Spanish, nor Europeans I am just saying that man without restraints is Evil and even when there are restraints men rise to the occassion to do that which is evil in the sight of and by the name of a God they really don’t believe in Hitlers God Was unrestrained Power, Stalins God was unrestrained power, Mao’s God was unrstrained power so the truth is the Conquestadors and spanish that came after did much Evil but what about the Aztec’s who in one day sacrificed 25,000 captives. I am saying than two wrongs don’t make it right but you didn’t read the whole peice or you would have gotten that so don’t skim and find something you disagree with and trash me for it when if you didthe true math in all american cities and towns for the last one hundred years you truly would be shocked and even grief stricken over the disregauard of humanlife that man has honed into a killing machine not God but man we are our own worst enymies when we are taught that it’s alright to beat up mammas boy and all others weaker then us as has been taught exclussively in public and private schools all over the world. Have watched T.V. lately the cage matches, the ultimate fighter garbage and Hockey we have gone back to the day’s of Bread and Circus’s just as the Romans used to keep the servant class maliable to do their will.
  Trithoverlies/Truthoverlies.
      John R. Bloson Jr.

This are 3 of the most unprovable and asinine statements I’ve ever seen posted here.

Everything is speeding up toward its final conclussion the last Century is proof positive of that with more murders and thefts then at any other time recorded.
***************************************

I don’t know what “proof” means in your world but it obviously isn’t the same as in mine.  I have NO idea how you came to this conclusion that there were more murders and thefts in the 20th century than through recorded history.  It not only makes no sense, but 30 seconds of thinking will show it wrong—in the 1500’s Spain stole Mexico including 1/3 of the current USA, Northern South America and Central America—and that’s just one country.  They murdered millions doing it. (remember: You left the wars and the genocides out of your counts)

****************************************
This is not counting the Genocides of the twentieth Century are the wars of Secular progessives WWI, WWII, Russian Revolution, Chinese Revolution, Cummunist Insurrection in Africa, South America, Central America, Southeast Asia, and Europe.
***********************************************

How do you figure these were Secular Progressives????? WWI was started by the German and Austrian monarchies.  WWII was started by the Japanese imperial fascists and the Nazis.

Communists are not secular progressives, and certainly the revolutionaries who called themselves communists (like Mugabe) are nothing of the sort.

The BIGGEST genocide in South America was perpetrated by the BACKLASH in Chile to the legal election of Communists—by the Pinochet faction that claimed to be Christian.

***********************************************
The Last century far outstrips all others combined to kill more people and it all came about through the teachings of Evolution over the teachings of Christ Jesus,
***********************************************

While it MIGHT be possible to crunch the numbers on wrongful deaths in the 20th century and show that it outstrips the rest of humanity, but I doubt it—you have 100 to 110 million Native Americans dying (not in the US as is asserted elsewhere) but in the Americas, and about 40 million deaths in Europe due to the Plague (the spread of which is DIRECTLY the fault of the Catholic Church).  Still, how is it you blame this on Darwin?????

Because Hitler totally mis-interpreted Darwin’s description of a biological process and applied it to human social societies??? (It’s called “Social Darwinism” and it’s been totally discredited as unrelated to biological evolution).  BTW, Hitler was a Christian, not an Atheist or Agnostic.

And where do Stalin and Mao fall into being apostles of Darwin??? Nowhere in Darwin is there an argument that trying to intervene in the evolutionary process is possible—that’s just not how it works.  You cannot force it or even predict that evolution will occur in a particular way.

More importantly, you are arguing that these movements were primarily Darwinian, rather than Marxist and that is TOTALLY unsupported by the facts. Evolution did not spawn one single political movement.  But Marxism sure did!

I really hate ill-thought out assertions like this. I know you got it from some right wing “Christian” preacher who is no more authority on political movements and history than a New York City garbageman does—maybe less because the trash hauler lives in the most cosmopolitan city in the world.

Try thinking it through first, please!  Christ was a rabbi, which means He was a scholar first, before He was your Savior. That means rational thought was part of His makeup. It’s not a bad model, you know!

Years ago people were burned at the stake for beining Christians aswell some were pushed into the rivers or Lakes with their hands tied behind their backs and their feet hung with anchor stones. This was happening in the same time period that you were talking about.  No it doesn’t make it right in either case but agian man shows his increadible evil streak that continues to run through his heart and mind.  No real christian would have done these things only tares claiming to hide behind Christianity to gain power and wealth so My point is that we can point fingers all day and all night but that does’t make what was done in the name of christianity, nor secular progressivism right In the 1920-30’s women and men were sterilized in place all over the world because of the secular progressive quazi-science of eugenics which said we could mutate the bad genes out of existance and minipulate the gene pool by scientific research and experimentation.
All this was done to cull out and destroy the recessive genes and help evolution along its way for the survival of the fitest.  Are there rights and wrongs on both sides of the equation of course any time man is involved things go bad when there are no limits set on science monsters will be created as what was happening under Dr. Joseph Mangala and others in Nazi Germany, and under the Communist in the former Soviet Union, and dare I say it right here in the good old U.S.A. in North Carolinia, California, New York State, excetra…  Eugenics was the world attempt to breed out Ethnicity and Racial distinction as well as any abnormalities in the Human Race and it was run by followers of Margret Sanger, and other secular progressives.  I am not saying that being a secular progressive is any worse than being a person claiming Christianity or a socialist for unfortunately when you award to much power to any one group you cause the worst case to be exploited by the power hungry.

Bible Prophecy
Turkey (Gomer) is one of the powers of the north that will come against Israel along with Syria (Togarmah), and Rosh The ancient decindants of the Russ or Russians and Tubal the Goergians,and Armeanians and the other Astans of the Russian Federation. If you have not noticed over the last 17 years the government of Turkey though still considered secular by the world has moved closer and closer to the Islamic Radicals in their country as the terror campaigns of of two groups have increased in recent years the Kurdish radicals angling for a Kurdistan, and the Islamic Radicals angling for a Islamic Sharia state in the same likeness of the Talahban state of Afghanistan before the Karzi Government.  Everything is speeding up toward its final conclussion the last Century is proof positive of that with more murders and thefts then at any other time recorded. This is not counting the Genocides of the twentieth Century are the wars of Secular progessives WWI, WWII, Russian Revolution, Chinese Revolution, Cummunist Insurrection in Africa, South America, Central America, Southeast Asia, and Europe.  The Last century far outstrips all others combined to kill more people and it all came about through the teachings of Evolution over the teachings of Christ Jesus, But if you believe the book so many today hate (the Bible) it was all pridicted 2000 or more years ago some of the pridictions date back 2800 years from Isaiah, 2600 years Ezekiel and Daniel.  It is fact that some of these prophecies have already come to pass, some are in the progress now, and some are yet to be realized.  We are told of mounting Apostacy (Falling Away) as people stop
believing in Christianity in the West.
               
          Trithoverlies/Truthoverlies.
              John R. Bloxson Jr.
PS I make no bones about being a follower of Christ but even so I am also Human and have stumbbled and fallen and had to be picked up as any true believer will tell you.

Turkey???
Turkey has had some of the best relations with Israel of any of the ME nations.  Unless Turkey falls under the domination of Islamic militants (and it’s not likely for a host of reasons that don’t apply to other nearby nations) they are more likely to form an economic partnership with Israel.

The problem with trying to read prophesies is the reader ALWAYS tries to fit it to the here and now, and always assumes the prophesy is about to come true NOW.

A much better prophesy was one I heard from a European political scientist /economist in the spring of 1976…He predicted that the Cold War East/West thing wasn’t going to last and the REAL conflict was going to be a North/South thing between the industrialized 1st and 2nd World against the 3rd and 4th world.  These days that prediction looks a lot truer, doesn’t it?

To Inherit The Wind——I thought ITW might be for
that reason but I wasn’t certain.  Turkey sounds
like a nice place.  I spent time in Egypt and Israel
but no where else in the middle east.  I tried to
climb Mr. Hermon in northern Israel right on the
Syrian border.  I stopped in a small Syrain town to
ask directions for catching a bus back to Tiberias.
I wasn’t treated very well.  Most people there do
not like Americans.  The Bible talks about an enemy
from the North invading Israel.  Most people believe
this is an alliance between Russia and Iran.  Walid
Shoebat in “Why I Left Jihad” believes it is Turkey.
I better not quote him too much because I didn’t
bring that book with me.  I am in Florida to escape
the harsh winters up north.  I am going to bed.  Take
care.

Then why did you ask why I picked ITW? It should have been obvious to you.

Turkey is not just a biblical reference. It’s an interesting and beautiful nation with spectacular highs and lows.  They can be the warmest, friendliest people on earth, and some of the most bigoted.  Turks generally don’t like Arabs, and especially detest Palestinians—I’ve seen them practically spit at them.  Their problems with Greeks are famous but actually less than they used to be and improved after the earthquake in 2000.  Their language is nothing like Arabic, neither in sound, structure or vocabulary, but it sounds a little more like Farsi or Pashtun. Personally, I much prefer the sound of Turkish to Arabic, but that’s purely an esthetic opinion, not a moral or absolute one. I only know a little of each and both are very difficult for a Western ear.

They are ethnically from Central Asia, and many are fair. In the West, they are not nearly as fanatically religious as in the center and the East. Istanbul is one of the more beautiful cities on earth.

But Western Turkey, from Europe all down the Western Anatolian coast was once basically Eastern Greece, back in the Bibilical times.  Ephesus was first a Greek, then Roman city, as was Pergamum.  Classical Troy (1000 years after the Illiad) was a Greek, then Roman town as well.  So it’s natural that much of the N.T. addressing the Greeks and Romans is in Turkey, far closer to Israel.  Even Rhodes, where St. Paul was supposed to have landed, is right off the Turkish shoreline, closer by far than to mainland Greece.

Things show up in history for logical reasons, many of which can be learned by reviewing geography.

To Inherit The Wind——I am familiar with the movie
“Inherit The Wind.”  I’ve watched it many times.  My
grandfather and father were born and raised about 45
minutes from Dayton, Tenn.  When I attended a family
reunion a few years ago, my cousin and I stayed in a
motel in Dayton.  I toured the monkey trial museum
in Dayton.  The local business leaders promoted the
trial to call attention and business to Dayton.  The
area still has a church on every corner.  My grandmother, also from that area, was the dominant
Christian in my family.  Just about every time I saw
her she would say, “You ought to be a preacher.”
I ask all my cousins and she never said it to anyone
but me.  Being a preacher was about the farthest thing in my mind even though I did attend Sunday
school.  I was more interested in girls and basketball.  As I got older, went to the Air Force
and college, I completely left Christianity.  It
took my father having a heart attack on Good Friday,
April 8, 1977, to bring me back to Christianity.  I
mention it somewhat in a video on Google titled,
osama bin laden a christian response/expanded edition.  I noticed you mentioned Turkey in a comment
to a friend.  I would recommend a book by Walid
Shoebat titled “Why I Left Jihad.”  Walid is an
ex-Palestinian terrorist who became a Christian.
He had to leave his family in Palestine because of
threats on his life.  He discusses Turkey as it relates to Bible prophecy.

Inherit, did you and the little guys enjoy Turkey? I really DO like Turkey myself. Next time, tell me when you all go. I’ve been trying to find a nanny-job. Ideally, I wanna be a relief nanny to cover for Mary Robinson when she needs a break. I can’t imagine any more delightful ‘charges’ than the First Daughters, Malia and Sasha. But, I haven’t met your sons yet. wink

They sound just as delightful.
***********************************************

Yeah, we hadn’t been to Turkey in 8 years, but we love it too.  We were near Ephesus, but had been there so we went to Pergamum instead, starting with the Acropolis.  It was magnificent but bitterly cold and raw, with a knife-like wind and snow and ice everywhere—and it was snowing.  Despite a miniature North Face down parka, the little one got cold—he’s only 4.  So only the big guy, who’s almost as tall as me and I went to the Asclepion—my wife and the little guy stayed in the van and warmed up.  We two had good parkas and needed them—the wind was easily 30-40 mph and constant and it was snowing.  We were cold but it was beautiful!

Turkish people can be very warm and friendly and I was happy to see that the little bit of the language I knew was coming back to me.  If you can even say “Hello”, “Please” and “Thank you!” they are delighted that you took the time to learn a little.

So you’re lookin’ to be a travel-nanny, eh, Cyrena?  You can get to see some great places and get paid to do it! (Oops!!! I shouldn’t have told you that part…) You can get to see some great places and it won’t cost you much to see them!  (that’s better! LOL! )

christian96, January 29 at 1:50 pm #

To Inherit The Wind—-I am aware of the atrocities
that have been committed in the name of Jesus over
the years.  As I have said numerous times on this
site, “DO NOT BLAME JESUS FOR WHAT PEOPLE DO IN HIS
NAME!”  I am curious why you chose the title “Inherit
The Wind?”  In Revelation 7:1 there are four angels
holding back the four WINDS of destruction.  One
day these winds will be loosed upon the earth to
bring great tribulation.  As I look at weather
patterns around the earth the four winds may have
already been let loose.
***********************************

I don’t blame Jesus—look back at my posts and I say his essential message was don’t kill each other, but love, cherish and take care of each other.  I have no problem with Christian who believe and live that.

But the others who think Jesus was all about how to follow the recipe to get Pie In The Sky (Heaven) and that part of that is to force everyone else to conform—I have a problem with them.

“Inherit The Wind” is from Proverbs. It’s also the name of my favorite play and movie of just about all time—You’d hate it since it’s about the Dayton, Tenn Scopes “Monkey” Trial.  Starred Spencer Tracy, Frederick March, Gene Kelly, Claude Akins, Dick York, Noah Beery, and Harry Morgan—that’s all I remember.

By octopus, January 28 at 7:24 pm #

“911 operator, what is the nature of your emergency?”
” Uh, yes ma’am , could you call Belleview because I believe a couple of inmates must have escaped. I mean there are a couple of deranged degenerates that are maniacally regurgitating useless, meaningless nonsense from a poor work of fiction.”
“Sir, can you give me your location and a description of these individuals?”

” Yes ma’am , I am currently located in cyberspace on a Truthdig thread that has become a festering boil that needs to be lanced Stat. One of the raving maniacs keeps calling himself Christian96 , and the other one chooses to be known as John R. Bluxton Jr.”

~~~~

I LOVE this!!! Thanks Octopus!!

Inherit, did you and the little guys enjoy Turkey? I really DO like Turkey myself. Next time, tell me when you all go. I’ve been trying to find a nanny-job. Ideally, I wanna be a relief nanny to cover for Mary Robinson when she needs a break. I can’t imagine any more delightful ‘charges’ than the First Daughters, Malia and Sasha. But, I haven’t met your sons yet.

They sound just as delightful.

To Inherit The Wind—-I am aware of the atrocities
that have been committed in the name of Jesus over
the years.  As I have said numerous times on this
site, “DO NOT BLAME JESUS FOR WHAT PEOPLE DO IN HIS
NAME!”  I am curious why you chose the title “Inherit
The Wind?”  In Revelation 7:1 there are four angels
holding back the four WINDS of destruction.  One
day these winds will be loosed upon the earth to
bring great tribulation.  As I look at weather
patterns around the earth the four winds may have
already been let loose.

christian96, January 29 at 12:10 pm #

Christian96
***********************************************

Your dream has, in its reverse, been a hellish nightmare for nearly 2 millennia.  Anyone not kow-towing to Christian authority risked being ostracized, excommunicated, exiled, jailed, tortured, murdered, and all their property seized from their children. Meanwhile, church leaders were corrupt and sexually perverted, using their power to steal, rape and sodomize young children. This went on from 325AD to…well, it’s STILL going on today, isn’t it?

I’m glad you think you are willing to die a horribly painful death for your faith.  I hope you never actually have to find of if your faith really IS that strong.  A dream is just a dream. In our dreams and imaginations, we are all super-heros.

But today there are people who are enduring such a deadly torment every day, sometimes for their faith, sometimes for their politics, and sometimes just because a psychopathic sadist needs a target.  While you play the drama queen, think about them.

To John R. Bloxson, Jr.———-Last night I was about
to fall asleep when my door was kicked in by antichristian authorities.  Octopus turned me in for
being a Christian.  After tazering me, they beat me
mercilessly until I feel to the floor unconscious.
When I awoke I was handcuffed and standing before an
antichristian judge.  He harshly addressed me, “Sir,
you have a choice.  You can recant your belief in
Jesus and be set free or if you will not recant you
will be burned at the stake today at high noon!”
How things have changed!  Years ago, people were burned at the stake for NOT believing in Jesus.  Now,
it’s the opposite.  I don’t know what is happening
in the world.  Years ago, when I was young, men
fought men and kissed women.  Today, it’s the opposite.  Men are kissing men and fighting with women.  I guess Satan and his fallen angels are at
work.  I answered the antichristian judge, “Your
honor, as for me and my house, we wil serve Jesus.”
I was sentenced to be burned at the stake at high
noon.  Watch out John.  Octopus also turned you in.
KEEP THE FAITH!  Pray for these poor lost souls.
They know not what they do!

A Brother in Christ,

Christian96

Mr. Bloxson:
You keep trying to change the rules of the game…you stated that Christians created and staffed the first hospital.  I proved you incorrect with photos of a hospital that existed 300 years before Christ, the Asclepion at Pergamum—and inadvertently another one—the Asclepion at Kos.

So you tried to change to the rules to say FREE and CHARITABLE hospitals—rule-changing to try to cover that your assertion was fallacious.

You will be far better off if you defend the idea that the Bible is a book of IDEAS not history.  What the first 5 books of Moses are, the Pentateuch, is called by the Jews The Torah—which means The Law.  In other words, it is a book of how to live.

And, despite all the arguments and debates and attributions of Divinity, the message of Jesus in the New Testament is a simple re-iteration of one in the Old Testament—care for each other because we are all in this together.

You are still thinking in terms of your own reward—Pie in the Sky.  “If I follow the rules of Jesus then I get to go to Heaven!”  What if there is no Heaven and Hell? Does that make His basic message of compasssion to your fellow human beings invalid???  Mohammed made charity to the unfortunate one of His 5 Pillars of Islam.  Clearly there’s something more important than YOUR heavenly reward there, and it goes beyond Christianity.

Even Mother Theresa doubted and questioned her own motivations for doing what she did.  Imagine that! Someone seen as a Saint that all the world recognized as such STILL wondered why she was doing what she was doing and if she was being selfish.

She was clearly a hell of a lot less arrogant about HER Christianity than you are.

Re: christian96

Your comment: “Since they don’t
want to do what Jesus ask them to, they make up
ignorant rationalizations to cover up their vile
behavior!  Pray for them.”

I seriously take exception to your claim that it is “vile behavior” to question and search for FACTS.  I also take exception to the fact that you feel that YOU and (I’m assuming) those in YOUR religion have the only “TRUE GOD”.

It appears you won’t, don’t or can’t entertain the notion that YOU may be the one who is being misled and not I.  What if you are wrong concerning your assumptions?  The bible is a book of FAITH, I can agree with that.  Can YOU agree that the bible IS NOT a book of FACTS….?

Also, how have you “laid to rest” so to speak the many CRIMES perpetrated IN THE NAME of Christianity as avered by ITW and Conservative Yankee?  Specifically:

CY’s quote: “what is being discussed here is NOT morality, but religion.  History tells us the two are FAR FAR apart, from the crusades through the inquisition to the rabid anti-abortion protesters (who have never adopted a unwanted throw-away child) morality is absent from formal religion.”

ITW’s quote: “You see God bargaining with Abraham over the fate of Sodom and Gomorah.

It’s a primitive’s book, a desert people’s scripture.”

This is not ignorance you are witnessing, but objective thought.  Only religion claims this as “ignorance”.  There’s a REASON for that too.

OK your Hospital for the wealthy existed 300 years befor Christ but I was talking about Hospitals that did not turn away the poor who could not pay the Doctors. and I should have also explainesd that though your Hospital came into existance it did not become the model for all hospitals of the future so technically you are right but for morality it did not serve every ill and dying person who could not pay the bill.  The Jewish people also had infirmeries as for back as KIng David though these were relitively small and no two were alike it was the first step toward health care for all.

To Octopus why do you keep resorting to wise cracks and Insults with name calling is it because you feel insecure in your world view well get over it you don’t want to deal with us crazies than why not just ignore us don’t continue to insult people who don’t believe as you do it is a free country you may believe what you want but please atleast stop the insults tell us we’re wrong but stop being infantile now I has insulted you Iam sorry but you keep comming back so evidenty you don’t care what others think if it does not agree with your bias than its open season on the dingbats that you claim we are did I personally insult you no I appealled to your intellect but for you we don’t have an intellect and on the record the best selling Book of all times is the Bible so I believe that speaks volumes in itself but also the book of Myth is the best History of the ancient Middleast and has been more proven than Ceaser’s Gallic Wars or The Illiad.  The Bible has endured through the ages because it is true and has with stood the age of Historical Criticism, Literary Criticism, and the vicious attacks by the Comunist which is still standing the Bible Comunism is a failed Political system that cold not keep up Scientifically with the west so I just don’n understand your continued attacks on this Book other than that it worries you and your friend because you think you don’t measure up well let me put your mind at ease none of us measures up we all miss the mark and you show it by your disdain for those of use that recognize we can not measure up so stop trying stop demanding that your opinion is the only ones that matter I would at least respect your opinions if you would not mask them behind insult and direspect. So I’ve said more than I intended to but it is gulling that you have so little respect for the Freedom of speach and the persuit of Happiness for others.
              Trithoverlies/Truthoverlies.
                  John R. Bloxson Jr.

“911 operator, what is the nature of your emergency?”
” Uh, yes ma’am , could you call Belleview because I believe a couple of inmates must have escaped. I mean there are a couple of deranged degenerates that are maniacally regurgitating useless, meaningless nonsense from a poor work of fiction.”
“Sir, can you give me your location and a description of these individuals?”
” Yes ma’am , I am currently located in cyberspace on a Truthdig thread that has become a festering boil that needs to be lanced Stat. One of the raving maniacs keeps calling himself Christian96 , and the other one chooses to be known as John R. Bluxton Jr.”
“Sir, please stand by.”
“Sir I do have a confirmation and the authorities are in route.”
” These Individuals are to be considered very dangerous as they
are obsessed with beIng absolutely correct about everything all the time. “
“Suggest you exercise extreme caution. “
” Thank you for the warning , but I would like to stick around for the multiple tazerings
And other much deserved stress positions. “
“That will be fine sir, and thank you for calling 911. ”

Dr Nejad may have a point

“America’s crimes against Iran, the Iranian leader said in his televised speech, included support for the Iranian coup of 1953 and backing for Saddam Hussein in the Iran-Iraq war of the 1980s.”

http://www.prosefights.org/nmlegal/vazquez/vazquez#mossadegh

according to Wikipedia.

“Iranian leader demands US apology

Iran’s president has responded to an overture by the new US president by demanding an apology for past US “crimes” committed against Iran.

The US “stood against the Iranian people in the past 60 years,” Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said during an address in the western region of Khermenshah.

“Those who speak of change must apologise to the Iranian people and try to repair their past crimes,” he said.

....

Relations between Washington and Tehran reached new lows in recent years over attempts by the US and its allies in the United Nations to curtail Iran’s nuclear programme over fears it is trying to build nuclear weapons.

Tehran says its programme is to develop civilian nuclear power only.

The new US ambassador to the UN, Susan Rice, said on Monday that she was looking forward to “vigorous diplomacy that includes direct diplomacy with Iran”.

The US broke off diplomatic ties with Iran in 1979, after students stormed the US embassy in Tehran after the Islamist revolution overthrew the US-backed Shah. “

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7855444.stm

Let’s all hope Ms Rice can do something to help settle these unfortunate matters.

the first Hospitals of all times were built and staffed by Christians,

***********************************************

Think so?  On New Year’s Eve, just 4 weeks ago, my son and I toured the Asclepion in Pergamum, Turkey.

Here’s a web site so you can see it:

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&resnum=0&q=asclepion&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&resnum=1&ct=title

And here’s the Wikipedia reference to educate you a little:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asclepieion

Notice that the Asclepion was found in 300 B.C.!

Tell me, how could Christians have founded and staffed the first hospital 300 years before Christ?

I don’t know that the Asclepion was the first hospital—I doubt it as I believe Egypt had them 1000 years earlier.  I do know that I have stood in a hospital that proves your statement totally and completely fallacious.

The Hittites were not found until the 19th century—that’s true.  They are mentioned vaguely in the O.T.—that too is true.  But, yet again you post fallacy—the ancient Egyptians not only knew the Hittites, they had relations with them AND RECORDED THEM IN THEIR ARCHIVES!  The Bible isn’t the sole reference to the Hittites until the 19th century.

To deny that Christians engaged in the murderous Crusades, that they burned Jews and other heretics, that they even murdered each other, in the name of Christianity (Check out the sacking of Greek Orthodox Constantinople by Roman Catholics at the beginning of the 13th century) is pure insanity, or a deliberate attempt to hide and obfuscate the real history of Christianity.

May The Lord God Bless Your Soul, John R. Bloxson, Jr.  Your words comforted my soul in fulfillment of
I Thessalonians 5:11.  If the truth be known, many
people oppose Christianity because the tenets of
Jesus Christ ask them to do things they don’t want
to do.  Just like a little kid.  Since they don’t
want to do what Jesus ask them to, they make up
ignorant rationalizations to cover up their vile
behavior!  Pray for them.

thanks for clearing that up for us John R. Bloxson Jr.

i must have my history mixed up.  ive heard a different version of what happened.

i cant wait until organized religion crumbles from the inside out.  its already happening.

no man needs an intermediary between him and god.  the institutions have been about power and money since day one.

heres another way to put it:  all the organized religions can fall tomorrow and god wont mind a bit, because there is no connection between the two.

to whome it may concern,
Christianity has no bloody history Man does the crusades had nothing to do with Christianity but power, the Christians stayed and died while nursing the plague victims in 412 A.D while the peagans and the rich ranout on the prblem the first Hospitals of all times were built and staffed by Christians, the First Orphanages were founded by Christians and these were not the work houses that had such a pitiful record. It was Christians who said the Slave was to be treated equally as a brother or sister, it was Christians that started the first European and American Universities, ith was Christians during the middle ages and renaissance that led the scientific breackthroughs in astronomy, Agriculture in Wine production, in Animal Husbandry, and in Medicine. And as for Hitler’s gas Chambers Hitler worshipped the occult His Scientist worshipped the God called Natural selection , Evolution. and It was not christians that led the charge agianst the jews but power hungry Athiest and a false church of Hitler’s design.  I know the History and the blodiest single century far bloodier than all 1900 years of Christianity combined was the 1901-2001century of the Natural Selectionist, Secular Humanist, and the secular progressives such as Stalin Hitler Tojo,Mao, Ho Che Mien, Pal Pot, Nicholi Chalchesque, Robert MuGhaba,I may have misspelled some of the names since I am writting this in a hurry before going to class. No you can not blame Christianity for the stuff that happened you can only lay it at the foot of Man, Greed, lust, lust for power, and Hatred of anyone not of your own race.  Remmember their are people of every race, tribe, ethnic groupe and Nation who are true christians, but also there are those tares mixed in with the wheat they claim to be Christians Like the White Aryan Chruch, or the Trinity church of Chicago that are filled with cointerfiet Christians but they are not the only ones.  We have these tares mixed into every Church Denomination, Protestant and also Catholic, so no Christianity is not the culpret you make it out to be but instead Man Power hungry, greedy, lusting, and Hating!
          Trithoverlies/Truthoverlies.
            John R. Bloxson Jr.

The Bible the most historically acurate book of myths has been validated time-n-again by Archeologist. The Hittites did not exist according to the Historical criticism of the 1870’s- 1925 but than guess what the Hittite Capital was found and the stories of the Bible were verified from sources in the clay tablets found in the Hittites Library and so far only a fraction of the Tablets have been recorded and translated.  The walls did not fall outward at Jericho but it was taken after a long siege wrong the archeologist while digging found it exactly the way the bible described it the wall fell outwards making ramps to march up right into the City, and no long seige the store houses were found to still be full.  There was no King David of the Bible but while digging in the ruins of southern Lebonon a territorial marker was found written in Four languages Egyptian picture writing, Assyrian, Hittite, and old Hebrew announcing this was the furtherist the Territories of King David went.  We also found evidence of this King of a united Israel from clay Tablets of the Philistine and the Kingdom of Trye in the middle of Lebenon, and the Assyrian Capital city of Nenaveh. Oh we also found mention of a prophet from Nazereth named Jonah that visited the city and preached on inpending Judgment that brought repentance and a further prophet Nahum told how the capital would fall and who 40 years before reprieve ended with its fall in 612 B.C. when it was destroyed by the Meades and Babylonian Army so what myth are you refuring to the myth that there is no God, or the myth saying there are many god’s or the story told in the Bible that tells of a loving God but also of an judging God who will allow you to chose heaven or hell it is your choice to make God is a gentlemen in that if you choose Hell He will allow you to make that choice, Unlike some other god’s that have already made this choice for you one says you can follow all the rules worship properly and still be sent to hell if that is the god’s will. I have much more I could say but space is limited so I will end here Tbible is the most accurate historical record of the anceint world and the first accurate science book of the ancient world The Earth is Round It revolves around the sun, Blood carries life, and slaves should be treated well,and yes there were some rather harsh penalties for transgressing God’s laws we have them today you just have not seen them yet but many will saddly to their regrets.
          Trithoverlies/Truthoverlies.
              John R. Bloxson Jr.

Christian96:

I’m only going to address one of your points.

I have already mentioned that more than
300 prophecies about the coming of the Messisah in
the Old Testament were fulfilled 100% by Jesus in
the New Testament.  How do you explain that?

Easy. I already did.  The guys writing the scriptures CHERRY-PICKED for the N.T. all knew the prophesies. They simply made sure when they wrote them down they were compliant.  Remember: There were a LOT of scriptures written but only certain ones were selected to be in the N.T. and the rest were suppressed or destroyed.  Love to get into the catacombs of the Vatican library to see what they’ve been hiding for 1700 years.

You want accurate prophecy? Try science instead! Science DEMANDS you predict what will happen VERY PRECISELY, then it must happen.  It’s called “Hypothesis Testing” and not only must it happen as you prophesied, somebody ELSE working independently must be able to get EXACTLY THE SAME RESULTS!  It’s not magic that we can predict every solar eclipse for the next thousand or 5 thousand years, DOWN TO THE NUMBER OF SECONDS IT WILL LAST!

So I’m not impressed by people trying to fit today’s events into vague words from the past.

I took a look at Nostredamus once.  The leading “scholar” on it (Erika Hawkins??) claimed everytime he referred to “The Three” he meant the Kennedy Brothers….but, of course, she forgot there were FOUR brothers.

And lets not forget that religious fanatics will frequently conveniently “bend” facts because they think they are still doing their deity’s work. 

In other words, the guys writing the N.T. LIED to ensure Jesus fit the prophesies.  Simple as that.  THAT is how I explain it—and the bloody, violent history of Christianity from 325 to Hitler’s ovens confirms it.

To Outraged—-The Bible had to be written by men.
I haven’t seen any monkeys write.  How does someone
validate that men who wrote the Bible were inspired
by God?  I have already mentioned that more than
300 prophecies about the coming of the Messisah in
the Old Testament were fulfilled 100% by Jesus in
the New Testament.  How do you explain that? Just
a coincidence?  I don’t thing so.  There are many
believers in Nostrademus yet only a handful of his
prophecies were fulfilled and many question those.
There are many more prophecies in the Bible which
were fulfilled.  When God scattered the Hebrews
throughout the world because they refused to obey
his commandments(not suggestions)God also made a
prophecy that he would one day gather them back into
their land.  That prophecy was fulfilled on May 14,
1948 when Israel was, once again, a nation.  How
that ever happened to another nation?  ALL the
prophecies in the Bible have been or are presently
being fulfilled.  The one that bothers me the most
today I mentioned on my Google video “osama bin laden
a christian response/expanded edition.”  That prophecy is written in Zechariah 14:12, “And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite
all the people that have fought against Jerusalem;
Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon
their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in
their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in
their mouth.”  Sounds like a nuclear explosion to me.
You ask about the various christian denominations
and their various interpretations.  The Bible tells
us in Ephesians 6:12 that our enemies are spirits
not people.  2nd Corinthins 11:15 tells us these
spirits transform themselves into ministers of
righteousness(preachers).  Therefore, the evil spirits, working through ministers, are responsible
for the various interpretations in order to lead
people, like yourself, away from the true word of God. You ask, “Why is God vengeful?” In the Old
Testament God chose the Hebrews to be the group of
people who would eventually bring the Messiah into
the world.  The Messiah had to be perfect, without
sin.  He is referred to as the lamb without blemish
(1st Peter 1:19) God used vengeful methods to try
to keep the Hebrews hold because the lamb without
blemish would come through them.  In the New Testament God used vengeful methods trying to get
people to turn from their wicked ways.  Sadly, even
after suffering great tribulation many people still
refuse to turn from their wicked ways, “Neither
repented they of their murders, nor of sorceries
(drugs and witchcraft, nor of fornication, nor thefts.  We are rapidly approaching the day of
vengeance of God(Isaiah 61:2).  Will you repent
when things get terrible in your life?  The
decision is yours!

Sodium:
’... Since the content of the article has appeared to me as using the words “Morality” and “Moral Authority” in an interchangable manner,is it possible that a public figure,like the President of the United State or the President of France,for instant,may possess both the “Morality” and “Moral Authority” at the same time and at the same place?’

As I see it, the state cannot be moral because it is based on violence.  That is, of course, just my view.  For others, violence is the highest expression of morality.  This is implicit, for example, in the numerous war memorials erected in a patriotic spirit, in the words of national anthems which speak of rockets, bombs, cannons, and the ground soaked with blood, in the persistent efforts of great states to build empires, and so on.  So there are at least two sets of opinions about the state and morality.  (That Mr. Pfaff idealizes a general, De Gaulle, in the midst of weeping about the American state’s loss of authority, “moral” and otherwise, will let you know which set Mr. Pfaff belongs to.)

So as you can see, there are two answers to your question: “No,” and “Yes.”  It turns out that you are the one who must choose between them.

For once, Outraged and I are on the same side of the argument.

Read the OT as if you’ve never read it before, never heard of it before, and you see a very, very old and primitive view of the world, even of the conception of a deity, who demands a human sacrifice, and then an animal sacrifice. (BTW, Greek mythology went through a similar transition, where gods demand human sacrifice, then are appalled by it and punish the sacrificing character—see Agamemnon.)

You see God bargaining with Abraham over the fate of Sodom and Gomorah.

You see wars in which entire peoples are slaughtered, men, women, children, slaves, even domestic animals at God’s command.

It’s a primitive’s book, a desert people’s scripture.

Today’s faiths cannot even agree on the Ten Commandments that religious fundamentalists like to cite. Of course, they cite as the unchanging 10 Commandments what are written in the King James Bible, THEIR personal interpretation, written, badly, in Shakespearean English. (Notice how when they think they are being holy they say “Thou” and “doth” and “sayeth”—cracks me up—it’s just 17th century English).

There are at least 3 versions of the 10 Commandments, with different breakdowns, and wording, and even ordering.  In the Torah, the KJB, and the Catholic Vulgate Bible, they are all significantly different—not making “graven images” is missing from the Vulgate, and “You will not murder” in the Torah becomes “Thou shalt not kill” in the KJB.

Demanding to be allowed to worship your deity is one thing. Demanding that I worship, and that I live by your religious laws and interpretation is totally different and unacceptable.

Re: christian96

Your comment: “You made
the comment, “You attempt the outlandish.  To qualify
a book, with THE BOOK ITSELF.”  I qualify the book
with statistical probability(SCIENCE).  There are
more than 300 prophecies in the Bible predicting
the coming of the Messiah.  Jesus fulfilled all those
prophecies.  What is the statistical probabiliy of
that occuring?”

First you would have to QUALIFY the bible.  I understand that you BELIEVE the bible is the word of God, but how have you qualified that in FACT IT IS.  We know it was written by men and to my knowledge EVERY christian religion is in agreement there.  Christian religions claim these men were inspired by God, but do not validate their claim.  They require followers to take that premise on FAITH.  They also require their followers to accept their particular interpretation on FAITH.

Does the fact that the various christian religions and their many interpretations of the bible seem a plausible likihood if the originator of this book was perfect?  Why did God change from a vengeful God(old test.) to a God of love(new test.)?  How could a vengeful God be loving or a loving God be vengeful?  Why would a supposedly “perfect being” engage in vengeful behaviour and why would a “perfect being” find the need to change “his” ways or rewrite “his” rules?

We could also debate the many TRANSLATIONS of the bible, each somewhat different, each adding a little in and taking a little out, change a word or two here and a word or two there.  Adapt, adopt, refurbish…. maybe now we have different book.  Yet we STILL haven’t qualified that the “original” (which one was that BTW) was inspired by God.

please vishnu dont let this turn into a craigslist rants and raves debate between the believers and atheists….

Thank you, Inherit the Wind. Well said.

I too am disgusted that the Religious Right, despite the incontrovertible proof of the Evolutionary theory, still clings to the notion that it’s not science but heresy.

But I’m not amazed. I’m not amazed because this is precisely what the Religious Right does; they must target the uneducated, the misinformed, the vulnerable, and the fearful because those with an ounce of brain and an ability to recognize logic either laugh at them or ignore them.

That in 2009 there are still people who believe Intelligent Design offers an acceptable model for the origin and diversity of the species simply proves that in 2009 there are still ignorant, vulnerable and fearful people who will continue to suck up this clap-trap.

octopus:
<i>‘What if, irony of ironies, you get to heaven and it is inhabited ONLY by atheists?’</b>

“Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.”

John R. Bloxson Jr., January 27 at 12:14 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

So lets use the breast theory What is the purpose of breast? to provide nourishment for the offspring so lets argue that you take the breast away. How do we provide norishment for our offspring so you have just prooven the opposite of your intentions so if breast were produced on the female of the species over millionsa of years how did offspring survive before the breast were fully functioning by the mutation system so the eye and now the breast have to have come about in micro seconds and agian you did not address the fact of irreducible complexity.  Or argue away the facts of intentional design within all life forms. I am tired of Athiest, Agnostics, and Evolutionist shoving Evolution down the throats of our children as fact when it is a flawed theory that doesn’t agree with the very laws of science.  It can’t be a fact unless scientific Methodology’s show ovservable repeatable and verifiable results.  And by the way did you know that every experiment has failed to prove the viability of the mutation concept they all end with the same results sterilization and extinction. It is very unlikly that mutation caused the split into many species; but with in each species there is proof of adaptational advances as the species moved throughout the world they adapted to their environments to survuve but I have a problem with this only in one respect were are the fossil remains of these many adaptions.  Oh it’s the Cambrian explosion a reptile layed eggs when some of them hatched they hatched as new species Birds, or mamals (dogs, cats, rats excetra…) If you do not see the absurdity of this to explain the lack of a fossil record than we can agree to diagree and stop trying to convince the other of the truth we proclaim.  And if I am wrong all well I lose nothing, but if you are wrong you lose everything so I will either gain it all or lose nothing while you will gain nothing or lose everything.  What I just said if you don’t understand it While I gain nothing from being wrong you gain nothing from being right and still lose everything from being wrong.
      Trithoverlies/Truthoverlies.
      John R. Bloxson Jr.
**************************************************

Are you totally incapable of independent thought? Must you simply mouth other peoples’ (invalid) talking points?

Other species came up with other techniques to feed their young—like “Pigeon’s Milk”—partially digested food for their young.

Evolution has not failed any experiments except in the minds of religious leaders who don’t know the difference between a “Theory” and a “Hypothesis”.

“Just a Theory” means they’ve been watching too many Cop shows where the detective says “I’ve got a theory about the murder.”  That’s not a theory. Without the Quantum theory, which is “just a theory” we have no transistors, integrated circuits, or PCs to argue about it on.

DNA testing has CONFIRMED evolutionary theory in the broadest sense, and frequently created surprises, like: Not only is the Chimp our closet relative, we are HIS, closer to the Chimp than gorillas or orangutans. The science is good enough to keep innocent people from execution, establish the remains of the Czar, and prove paternity.  It also confirms Evolution.

I’m amazed and disgusted that in the light of such incontrovertible proof of Evolutionary theory, the religious Right still keeps on insisting that we dump a load of clap-trap into our kids instead of science. Let’s teach our medical students to rely solely on leeches and purgatives and that doctors don’t need to wash their hands since they are gentlemen and are, by definition, clean.  I mean, since we are going backwards….

What if, irony of ironies, you get to heaven and it is inhabited ONLY by atheists?

While I am Agnostic, not Atheist (the usual whipping-boys of the fundamentalist Right), I will be very surprised if at death:
a) There is an “after-life”
b) There is a heaven and hell
and
c) That I go to hell.

According to the uber-religious, because I don’t pray, don’t say Novenas, duvid, or pray 5x/day facing Mecca, that I’m therefore a bad, sinful person, bound for hell.  In other words, because I don’t follow rituals, rather than what I do in my life.

I cannot imagine any deity, if one exists, being so irrational and capricious.  When we saw those horrid videos of kidnapped Westerners with the title “so-and-so slaughters an infidel” and then beheads the trussed unfortunate, I find it impossible to conceive that to be in any way a moral act.  Yet the super-religious in all religions seem to regularly be able to justify such acts. (BTW, I include the fanatics of the Stalinist, Maoist, and Pol Pot eras)

I cannot think of a stronger argument for Agnosticism and/or Atheism.

BTW, We’ve been to hell and back, for 8 years. It ended on January 20th.

To Outraged—-You made the comment “My premise was that you have shown yourself a hearer only and not
a follower of Jesus’ teaching.”  How can you JUDGE
me?  You know nothing about my life.  I’ll share
two examples: (1) I took a fatherless boy dying of
cystic fibrosis to a baseball game in Cincinnati
to see a game and arranged for him to meet his hero,
Johnny Bench; (2) While serving as a School Psychologist south of Canton, Ohio, I learned of a
junior high boy in our system dying of a rare disease.  I happened to be coaching junior high basketball for eighth grade girls at that time.  I
took the dying boy to our games and let him sit next
to me on the bench.  I, also, took him to high school
boys basketball games.  Perhaps, you should be the
one who is careful not to JUDGE others.  As to your
comment about me judging when I made the comment
about atheists going to hell, I was out of line in
that instance.  I grew up in a coal mining town in
West Virginia where I was an above average fist
fighter.  On several occasions, I knocked guys out
with one punch.  Now, that I am old I can no longer
fight with my fist and use my mouth instead.  When
I wrote the comment I was having a bad day.  I came
home, turned on the computer and read several ignorant irrational comments by atheists and shot
my mouth off by saying, “You atheists can go to hell.”  I was wrong to make such a comment.  It definitely was not a Christian comment.  You made
the comment, “You attempt the outlandish.  To qualify
a book, with THE BOOK ITSELF.”  I qualify the book
with statistical probability(SCIENCE).  There are
more than 300 prophecies in the Bible predicting
the coming of the Messiah.  Jesus fulfilled all those
prophecies.  What is the statistical probabiliy of
that occuring?  I don’t even try to understand your
satirical comment conerning “superior intelligence.”
I can tell from your comments on various sites that
you do not possess “superior intellligence.”  Perhaps, you are jealous, a common human trait.

jackpine savage:
’... Granted, nobody knows more than you…that’s been proven beyond the shadow of a doubt on these boards time and time again.’

And I know only that I know (almost) nothing, if I may parody Socrates, or one o’ them.  With so much ignorance, no wonder we have so much to say!  As the Chinese proverb allegedly goes, the emptiest pot makes the most noise.

Part 2 of 2
*************************************************

  I look at the eye and see order, something that could never have come into being according to the mutational theory that deals with what is not immediately in use tends to be breed out over many generational mutations. Without all parts of the visual model being developed at the same time which is called by scientist including naturalist Charles Darwin the point of irreducible complexity meaning all the parts had to be their at creation or there could be no sight.  Scientist Dr. Micheal behe said the smallest organism in the body has an order to it that make you understand that the general Theory of Evolution doesn’t answer the original question.
***************************************************

Oh, goodness! If it isn’t the tired old pocket-watch-in-the-field analysis.

Take away any part and it can’t do what it does…..yeah I know that one.

That’s so easy to dismiss I can’t begin to tell you.  What’s one of the first things a man notices about an attractive woman coming towards him? Her breasts.  Yup. You do it, I do it (and I try not to show I’m doing it because it’s really, really rude).

Take one gene away and they are no longer breasts.
Just like your irreducibility argument.

So?  What are they if you take away that gene? They are sweat glands.  Yes, mammalian mammary glands are
sweat glands that via mutation and evolution became specialized to produce a fat-laden form of sweat called milk that can nourish infants.

In fact, when you look at the examples given of “irreducibility” you always find that the item is a modified form of something else.

It’s a silly argument, easily discredited.

***************************************************
  This is why I do not have enough faith to be an Athiest and just because I have to type with one hand and one finger I do make typos but needless to say it doesn’t change the fact stated even with the typos.
      Trithoverlies/Truthoverlies.
      John R. Bloxson Jr.
****************************************************

OK, I’ll lay off on the typos. I’m not an Atheist, but I am an Agnostic.  Most Atheists are cynics, Agnostics are skeptics. I’m a skeptic.

Part 2 of 2

*************************************************

  I look at the eye and see order, something that could never have come into being according to the mutational theory that deals with what is not immediately in use tends to be breed out over many generational mutations. Without all parts of the visual model being developed at the same time which is called by scientist including naturalist Charles Darwin the point of irreducible complexity meaning all the parts had to be their at creation or there could be no sight.  Scientist Dr. Micheal behe said the smallest organism in the body has an order to it that make you understand that the general Theory of Evolution doesn’t answer the original question.
***************************************************

Oh, goodness! If it isn’t the tired old pocket-watch-in-the-field analysis.

Take away any part and it can’t do what it does…..yeah I know that one.

That’s so easy to dismiss I can’t begin to tell you.  What’s one of the first things a man notices about an attractive woman coming towards him? Her breasts.  Yup. You do it, I do it (and I try not to show I’m doing it because it’s really, really rude).

Take one gene away and they are no longer breasts.
Just like your irreducibility argument.

So?  What are they if you take away that gene? They are sweat glands.  Yes, mammalian mammary glands are
sweat glands that via mutation and evolution became specialized to produce a fat-laden form of sweat called milk that can nourish infants.

In fact, when you look at the examples given of “irreducibility” you always find that the item is a modified form of something else.

It’s a silly argument, easily discredited.

***************************************************
  This is why I do not have enough faith to be an Athiest and just because I have to type with one hand and one finger I do make typos but needless to say it doesn’t change the fact stated even with the typos.
      Trithoverlies/Truthoverlies.
      John R. Bloxson Jr.
****************************************************

OK, I’ll lay off on the typos. I’m not an Atheist, but I am an Agnostic.  Most Atheists are cynics, Agnostics are skeptics. I’m a skeptic.

This is pretty funny. (part 1 of 2)

John R. Bloxson Jr, January 26 at 6:04 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Thank you for being an adult about what I wrote calling me a sky pilot may make you feel better about yourselve but to those of use trying to have a meaningful dialog it seems infantile and shows that you actually feel very insecure with your Worldview.
***********************************************

Actually, I’m totally secure.  I’ve met Flat-Earthers who could make far more compelling arguments for THEIR beliefs than you can.

Your “arguments” below are simply recycled talking points that a little close reasoning can shoot holes in.

***********************************************
I was talking about the fact that if you trace all the scientific data back you find it comes to one pointy issue where did it all begin with a big bang? have you ever looked at the aftermath of an explosion if you have you will notice that it doesn’t create any thing by itself.  So the Big Bang began the uneverse right and how did it happen, not even Dr. Steven Hawkin can answer that so where is the beef to coin a slogan from a few years ago?  I mean what caused this cosmic event?  what origin did this? When you can intelligently answer those weighty question and stop name calling maybe we can talk if you are willing to open you mind.
*************************************************

First ridiculous point.  Hubble, for whom the Hubble telescope is named, was the astronomer who was able to show that the Universe was flying apart. No serious scientist disputes this anymore. It’s obvious fact.  Therefore it must have started at a single point. You cannot say “place” because if there is nothing but a void you can’t locate that point, so “place” is meaningless. 

Hawking (not Hawkin) didn’t coin the term “Big Bang”.  It was actually coined by a well-respected astronomer, Fred Hoyle, who was disparaging it since he was an advocate of the “Steady State Universe” model..(“What? You think it all came from a Big Bang???”)  Hoyle’s ability at logic and science was formidable.  He was also a novelist.  His early novel “The Black Cloud” is still fantastic reading, especially my favorite chapter “Close Reasoning”.  Hoyle pushed “Steady State” most of his life, yet, in his last years he acknowledged that the case for the “Big Bang” was compelling, and that he was wrong.

I’m not a cosmologist and I only vaguely understand the concepts of the “inflation” period of the universe’s creation, but I DO understand that in the first billionth of a second, the universe couldn’t have been more than 2 feet in diameter, because light can only travel about a foot in a nano-second—and the analysis of what happened before then is the “inflation” period (as I understand it).

What caused the Big Bang to happen is, at this level of science, indeterminable. If you want to say “God” made it happen, that’s OK with me.  I’d rather say I don’t know.

Anarcissie,

One should not judge Campbell by the PBS interview with Moyers; that was pointedly mainstream.

But he never suggested that he was putting out “new” information.  He was a generalist, and few (if any) of the deep, specialist scholars have/had his breadth of knowledge.  What he did was to show continuity through history, the replaying of regular mythological motifs and pointed out that there was a lot more to compare than there is to contrast.

And what he always said, that almost no one else has, is that our problems with religion come from mistaking the metaphor used to illustrate Truth for the truth itself.

Nowhere is this more evident than modern Christianity.

Granted, nobody knows more than you…that’s been proven beyond the shadow of a doubt on these boards time and time again.

Folktruther:
‘Actually, Anarcissie, Christian is right about the statistical probabilities, probably just by chance.  Einstein hated conceiving reality probabilistically. since there was no way to unite this view with his major theories, and thus it was a discontinuity. ...’

You don’t have to believe in a nondeterministic universe to find statistics useful.  All that is required is knowing that one’s knowledge is limited, a fact of which Uncle Albert was profoundly aware, as is anyone who does any science or, indeed, comes near it.

However, it may be that E. just didn’t like statistics.  Here you have a fellow who could see the universe in four quasi-spatial dimensions of perhaps curved metrics, with innumerable frames of reference moving through one another, not at random but in perfect order; well, he might have found statistics just too down’n'dirty.  I really don’t know.  But it’s a story I’ve never heard before.  And though we have Bose-Einstein statistics, it could be that Mr. Bose did all the gritty math stuff while Uncle Albert gazed out the window and provided the big picture.

Re: christian96

In response to your comment: “You made the comment, “If you are truly “Christian” then Jesus’ words should be paramount to you.  It is obvious that you lend them no creedence at all.”  How is it obvious?  If you look through my comments following this article you will see numerous times where I mentioned the words of Jesus.  Scroll down 18 comments from yours and you will notice my first sentence is “I am not judging.”

Yes, I did see where you mentioned Jesus’ words and quoted that biblical account.  My premise was that you have shown yourself a hearer only and not a follower of Jesus’ teachings.  Matthew chapter 7 concludes with these words.

Matt. chap.7 verses, 24-27:

24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 .But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

Additionally, while you are CLAIMING that you are not judging others it is obvious you have with this comment of yours:  “You atheists, infidels, and other antichristians can GO TO HELL!  Oh, excuse me, you ARE going to hell.  Have a nice trip.  You better enjoy what little time you have left.  Of course, you could REPENT which means you change your attitudes and behaviors to those taught by Jesus.”

To respond to your comment: “From your atheist perspective you make the comment “there is no proof the Bible is inspired by God.” From that comment it appears you haven’t studied the Bible.  There are numerous prophecies in the Old Testament that predict the coming of Jesus.”

With this assertion, you attempt the outlandish.  To qualify a book, with THE BOOK ITSELF….?????????????!!!!!!

This would amount to me writing a book and “proving” it with the book itself!  No…no….no…. that is NOT a qualification and NEVER will or could be.  Regardless, this still does nothing to PROVE divine inspiration.  As I’ve said, EVERYONE knows the bible was written by men.

So much for “superior” I.Q’s .....

No, it was not the events of the 1960’s that caused the moral breakdown, go up a bit later in our history, to the 1980s.

This is where I see a clear moral breakdown begin, and a sharp turn to the Right by our country.

The cause was Greed, greed without enough correction.

Yeah,
Everyone has weaknesses particularly about things they can’t conceive.

By Inherit The Wind, January 26 at 5:59 pm #

Heh, Heh!

Einstein opposed quantum mechanics because he couldn’t conceive of it.  For all his genius it was beyond his comprehension.  He was wrong, of course. 

~~~~

ITW, I’m not sure if you even thought of it, but this is an absolute universal truism about nearly everything.

“People” (Einstein in this case) generally OPPOSE concepts/ideologies/etc when they CANNOT CONCEIVE of whatever it is. In other words, when it is out of their comprehension.

And, it doesn’t matter how smart they otherwise happen to be. It’s just one of those things. Some people cannot make certain things ‘click’ in a way that allows them to comprehend it. This happens everyday in academia, and generally just means trying to explain it a different way. As an aside, I once read that Einstein was afflicted with a learning disorder, which only proves (to me at least) that a measure of a person’s IQ is far more related to how they process the knowledge they acquire rather than the amount of that knowledge, or the methods by which it was acquired.

So Einstein was a brilliant guy, but he still couldn’t quite master this Quantum stuff. Neither can I - but I’m smart enough to know not to DISMISS it, just because *I* don’t get it.

Still, we see how this affects the collective mentality across the board, and on multiple levels. When we are collectively unable to conceive of something - anything, (for whatever the reasons) it suppresses knowledge, (enlightenment) and impedes progress.

Good thing the pursuit of knowledge in QM wasn’t halted by Einstein’s opposition to it. Obviously…there were those who ‘strived on’ as grammaconcept would put it.

Yes we can, and yes we did, and yes that’s what we’ll keep on doing.

Strive on…:)

Actually, Anarcissie, Christian is right about the statistical probabilities, probably just by chance.  Einstein hated conceiving reality probabilistically. since there was no way to unite this view with his major theories, and thus it was a discontinuity.  He liked unified theories.

Einstein’s ‘god’ was the god of Spinoza, as you no doubt know.  It was another name for material reality.  Einstein liked to play with the term and it also protected him from being accused of atheism, which effectively he espoused.

I really liked Christian characterizing you as knowing nothing about science before he went off into to his Holy spasm of prophecy. I really enjoy religion; it’s so soothing and original.

According to what I have read, Einstein gave a religious reason for opposing QM.  He mentioned this on several occasions.  Here is one quote:

Quantum mechanics is certainly imposing. But an inner voice tells me that it is not yet the real thing. The theory says a lot, but does not really bring us any closer to the secret of the ‘Old One’. I, at any rate, am convinced that He does not throw dice. (translated from a letter to Max Born, 1926)

The most common paraphrase of this and other such remarks is “I do not believe that God plays dice with the Universe.”  Uncle Albert found a non-deterministic universe most repugnant.  He was also quite a God freak (although not in the Isaac Newton class); if you check out his famous quotations he seems to have been constantly on about it, although his God was pretty big and impersonal—not the sort of thing Christians or Hare Krishnas would go for.

However, I have not heard that Einstein had anything against statistics.  There is something called Bose-Einstein Statistics, about which Wikipedia has this note:

In the early 1920s Satyendra Nath Bose, a professor of University of Dhaka was intrigued by Einstein’s theory of light waves being made of particles called photons. Bose was interested in deriving Planck’s radiation formula, which Planck obtained largely by guessing. In 1900 Max Planck had derived his formula by manipulating the math to fit the empirical evidence. Using the particle picture of Einstein, Bose was able to derive the radiation formula by systematically developing a statistics of massless particles without the constraint of particle number conservation. Bose derived Planck’s Law of Radiation by proposing different states for the photon. Instead of statistical independence of particles, Bose put particles into cells and described statistical independence of cells of phase space. Such systems allow two polarization states, and exhibit totally symmetric wavefunctions.

He developed a statistical law governing the behaviour pattern of photons quite successfully. However, he was not able to publish his work; no journals in Europe would accept his paper, being unable to understand it. Bose sent his paper to Einstein, who saw the significance of it and used his influence to get it published.

It appears to me that E. was okay with statistics as long as they stayed in their place.

Heh, Heh!

Einstein opposed quantum mechanics because he couldn’t conceive of it.  For all his genius it was beyond his comprehension.  He was wrong, of course.  The computer you are reading this on wouldn’t exist without quantum mechanics.

Anarcissie—-Obviously you don’t know much about
science.  Einstein opposed Quantum Mechanics because
he didn’t like the statistical probablities associated with it.  Statistical probability can
be applied to the large number of prophecies in the
Old Testament about the coming messiah which Jesus
fulfilled.  Before the development of science people
relied solely on faith and many today who are not
well versed in science still base their belief on
faith.

Inherit The Wind—-I’m not sure what your contention
is.  Are you saying that those who wrote the New
Testament were familiar with Old Testament prophecies
and therefore wrote their books to intentionally have
the life of Jesus coincide with those Old Testament
prophecies?

“Sources say Iran running out of uranium

TEHRAN, Jan. 24 (UPI)—Iran could run out of yellowcake uranium within the next few months, forcing it to seek the nuclear fuel source elsewhere, sources say. ...

Uranium is a key component in the manufacturing of nuclear weapons, as well as for civilian electrical power production. ...”

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/01/24/Sources_say_Iran_running_out_of_uranium/UPI-66751232819717/

Let’s hope the Obama administration can get US “intelligence agencies” to back-off their exposed nonsense.

Iran, like the US, has possible electricity production problem SOON.

“Thu Oct 02 01:00:00 CDT 2008 A new study released this week highlights what experts have been saying for years: the U.S. faces significant risk of power brownouts and blackouts as early as next summer that may cost tens of billions of dollars and threaten lives.

The study, “Lights Out In 2009?” warns that the U.S. “faces potentially crippling electricity brownouts and blackouts beginning in the summer of 2009, which may cost tens of billions of dollars and threaten lives.” ...”

http://www.utilityproducts.com/display_article/341270/129/none/none/Indus/The-U.S.-Faces-Serious-Risks-of-Brownouts-or-Blackouts-in-2009,-Study-Warn

Settle,Obamna administration.

http://www.prosefights.org/nmlegal/shorthistory/shorthistory.htm#shorthistory

SkyPilot Alert! SkyPilot Alert!

An we keep finding wholes in the theory it’s to hard to hold to the gospel of Evolution and Scientific naturalism.

I can’t take anybody seriously who writes a sentence like this.  I just can’t!  Everybody makes typos, and I make my share and then some, but this is ridiculous!

And I’ll bet the people who always attack me will, for once, be in complete agreement with me.

Pal, you know why the predictions in the Old Testament come true in the New Testament?  Did it ever occur to you that the guys writing the New Testament had READ the Old Testament and knew what the predictions HAD to be?  At the Council of Nicea in 325 they decided WHICH writings were the scriptures and that the teachings of Arius were heretical (Like that God could always have another son if He wanted because He is omnipotent).

So, back then they ALL knew what the predictions were, even better than we do today,  and made sure to pick writings that conformed to them.  Yeah, they were playing with marked cards, a rigged deck, and crib sheets.  Plus they had an agenda to ENSURE their power and crush all dissent.

That’s good, Anarcissie, ‘What is, is wierd.”  Some people write huge tombs about the absrdity of the human condition but most people just laugh.  I perfer the latter; you can tell people anything when they are laughing.

Campbell was attacted to Nazi ideology and symbols.  He was an asshole toward women as well.  The Lithunian archeologist Marija Gimbutas wrote her major work after he published, which did much to restore the place of women in pre-history.

The most brilliant woman’s work was by the artist Merlin Stone WHEN GOD WAS A WOMAN.  Astonishing.

Anarcissie,

Campbell was no lightweight, but I don’t think you could say he was steeped in the arcania of Christian theology either. His massive four volume history of world mythology, “The Masks of God,” is a formidable work. His “Hero With A Thousand Faces” has been and is a very influential work in cinema and the arts.

I’m not sure exactly what Campbell meant “by the sin against the Holy Ghost,” aside from the context in which he made the statement, but the volume “Occidental Mythology” from “Masks of God” would probably be a good place to look for a reference.

christian96—I recommend not mixing up science with religion.  There are no scientific observations in the Bible, nor are there supposed to be.

Outraged——You made the comment, “If you are truly
“Christian” then Jesus’ words should be paramount
to you.  It is obvious that you lend them no
creedence at all.”  How is it obvious?  If you look
through my comments following this article you will
see numerous times where I mentioned the words of
Jesus.  Scroll down 18 comments from yours and you
will notice my first sentence is “I am not judging.”
From your atheist perspective you make the comment
“there is no proof the Bible is inspired by God.”
From that comment it appears you haven’t studied
the Bible.  There are numerous prophecies in the
Old Testament that predict the coming of Jesus.
Because of space I will quote one.  From the cross
Jesus cried, “My God, My God, why have you forsaken
me?”  Jesus knew God hadn’t forsaken him.  He was
still teaching from the cross.  He was directing
people to Psalm 22 which begins with the same exact
words, “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?”
Then, Psalm 22 goes on to describe a man being
crucified.  Psalm 22 was written at least a 1,000
years before Jesus was crucified.  How do you explain
that?  By “chance?”  I don’t think so.  Ask any
scientist about the probability of Jesus fulfilling
numerous prophecies in the Old Testament.  I noticed
your comment was recorded at 11:39 p.m.  Were you
stoned, drunk, or all the above?

Any immutable moral code is not worth the stone it is chiseled into.