Mr. Bloxson Jr. I don’t have to assuage my conscience because I have never defended the Israelis decades long annihilation of the Palestinians. A genocide can occur in slow motion, it doesn’t have to happen in one day to be a genocide and if you can explain to me what the specific targeting of children in Gaza meant in any other terms than a genocide of Gaza’s children to prevent them growing up to (a) breed or(b) take up arms to defend their own people then tell me what it is? The IDF shot defenceless children with M16s after ordering them to come out of their houses. Do you have a name for this other than murder? I don’t. And I won’t call black white because it’s not currently fashionable to call murder murder. Some things can’t be made into anything else but what they are and we should name them accurately. Calling murder self-defence is lying to ourselves and that’s a path to self-destruction.

re: By Invisigoth, January 14 at 9:12 am:

Invisigoth says that the US supports the Israeli side because “the Palestinians cannot afford the weapons America is selling to the Israelis.”

No, that makes no sense, Invisigoth.

Why?

Because the United States GIVES ISRAEL THE MONEY to buy American weapons, as you couldn’t possibly not know!

Israel has not only dehumanised itself and the Palestinians, it has contaminated the US. American forces used white phosphorous bombs In Fallujah, Israel used them in lebanon and now in Gaza. Israel has legalised torture, Bush, Cheney and their pet lawyers believed they legalised torture- it remains to be seen if they actually did. Israel has set up special courts to prosecute Palestinians. America has set up special kangaroo courts at Guantanamo Bay specifically to prosecute Muslims. Israel routinely rounded up Palestinian males of ‘fighting age’(they could be still children in the eyes of the law) and imprisoned them without charge and without trial. American forces did this in Iraq which is what led to the debacle at Abu Ghraib. The torture and humiliation techniques used in both Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo are standard practice in Israeli prisons where as many as 10,000 Palestinians, men, women and children are held without trial. The war on Terror is a phoney war and a proxy war being carried out by America in the service of Israel. There will never be peace in the Middle East until Israel has to obey international law the same as everyone else. And it might be a good idea for America to do the same. The really useful question asked in this article is how many times will Europe have to pay to rebuild what Israel has destroyed. I’m quite certain that if Israelis had to pay billions of dollars every time they went on a rampage it would slow them down. I can’t help wondering if Israel will ever be held accountable for anything it does or will they be able to use the holocaust as an excuse forever?

To cyrena.

Thanks so much for your comments. And more importantly thank you for ‘walkin the walk’ and wish you and your group the best of luck.While the following may seem naive I believe that the time and logic may be at the right time and in the right place for all those states that are members to deny states that are not members “ambassadorial level exchanges”.

If once fully organized you might share the names and org. title. I would think many Americans would want to contribiute in either time or effort. The neocons’ legacy must be expunged from America’s history.

By omop, January 19 at 10:18 am #

Wonder if any international law lawyers from the US are among the 230 lawyers mentioned in this newsreport:

  230 int’l lawyers taking Israel to the Hague
  19/01/2009 01:00:00 PM GMT
omop,

The quick answer is YES!!! There ARE scholars of international law from the US who are working this up. I don’t know if they are included in this group or not, though I’m more than happy to do a little research here and let you know what I come up with.
There are individual groups of American legal scholars that have been working this up for some years now though, (me among them) so that we CAN hopefully prosecute at the Hague. Our groups however, have been focused on the outgoing US regime responsible for these crimes as they’ve been perpetrated against Iraq. That foresees the possibility of the two efforts (Israel AND the US to the Hague) merging at some point.

The fact that neither Israel or the US has signed on to the ICC of course isn’t a surprise. But that doesn’t help them. They are still guilty of War Crimes since they ARE a signatory to the Geneva Conventions, and that’s all that matters.

Thanks for posting this report.

Thanks for the report.

Trith,

You are delusional. Even if the Palestinians sought the destruction of the Jews (they don’t but lets pretend for a sec they do), such a task would be impossible. Israel’s military might is overwhelming (witness 13 Israeli dead and 1300 Palestinians dead in the latest IDF massacre) and Israel has the full support of the US.

It is Israel denying the Palestinians the chance of self government. The historical record is clear on this. I know bigots like you refuse to believe it but the Palestinians have made many offers for peace and Israel has always found a reason to rebuff them.

Keep wallowing in your ignorance and Judeosupremacist mindset if that is what you want. Don’t expect me to support it or be polite to you. I find you offensive and I treat you with the disdain that you deserve.

Wonder if any international law lawyers from the US are among the 230 lawyers mentioned in this newsreport:

  230 int’l lawyers taking Israel to the Hague
  19/01/2009 01:00:00 PM GMT
                   
(AFP)

Around 230 international lawyers are set to file a lawsuit at the international Criminal Court against Israeli war crimes in Gaza.

A French lawyer working on the lawsuit, Jill Devier made the announcement at a Sunday night protest in Paris against the Israeli atrocities in the Gaza Strip.

More than 50 international lawyers and jurists are working on a dossier, which alleges that Israel has committed crimes against humanity in Gaza. The dossier would be then taken to the International Criminal Court at the Hague.

The move follows a three-week Israeli offensive against the besieged region of Gaza, which claimed 1,300 lives including more tahn 411 children and wounded around 6000 others.

The lawyers’ decision backed by international jurists is a legal response to the Israel’s crimes against humanity, Devier added.

The lawsuit inquires the ICC to assess Israel’s atrocities against the people of Gaza as war crime under the 1949 Geneva Convention, the French lawyer noted.

“Based on the 1949 Geneva Convention collective punishment, offensive against civilians, disproportionate use of weapons, rise of civilian killings and pounding non-military locations are considered war crimes,” Devier continued.

The Israeli aggression against the Gaza Strip has provoked worldwide condemnation of Tel Aviv, which has been accused widely of committing war crimes and crimes against humanity.

The International Criminal Court said in a statement on Wednesday that it lacks jurisdiction to investigate possible Israeli war crimes committed in Gaza.

The ICC said that the “court’s jurisdiction is limited to war crimes, crimes against humanity and the crime of genocide committed on the territory of, or by a national of a state party while Israel is not a member state.

Neither is the US for some strange reason.

Routinely tortured and locked up—what god awful country would do that!! We must press charges!!

Really, we should. Here at home, too.

To those of the less Educated who are cagged up, the distinction is of less importance.

Not really Folktruther, and so in your attempts to be facetious, you miss the point. You said that Falk been” imprisoned”  by the Israelis, and that is a HUGE distinction between those who have been caged up for decades—- BY THE ISRAELIS, (men, women, and children as political prisoners) and what Richard Falk endured at the airport in Tel Aviv, when he was detained, interrogated, and then expelled – all in just under 24 hours.

So, yes…since I AM educated, (at least to the extent of Israel’s actions in the Middle East since it’s artificial creation in 1948) I damn well DO know the difference between what Israel has done to tens of thousands of Palestinians over the decades, (as it continues to happen to them in Israel’s Military Criminal Court, set up JUST for Palestinians) and what Falk endured last month at the airport there. So while that WAS a huge display of Israel’s contempt for the International Community in the form of the UN, it doesn’t begin to compare to what the Israelis do to their PRISONERS.

So, it’s not about what ‘sounds’ better, other than to ignorant people who can only reflect on superficial bullshit, since they don’t know anything else.

Nope, not at all about how it ‘sounds’, but rather about how it FEELS to those who are caged for decades (as in IMPRISONED) and routinely tortured.

“Detained”, as in “delayed”. The tax cut reversal wil be “delayed” until the rich “invest in jobs”.. The pull out from Iraq, will be “delayed” until we can tear down that $1 billion embassy. (And, withdrawal from Afghanistan, delayed , until we “roll up our sleeves” and “get the job done”. I hear that the Employee Free Choice Act may , also have to be “accomodated for”, in a way that does not “make business mad”...yeah, cant do that.

Any war protestors at the Inaugeration will be “delayed” or “detained”?

The Israeli “withdrawal” from Gaza has—-already happened! They have no idea why those soldiers are still hanging around..maybe we should have a “war on the war on Gaza”.

Thanks for the correction, Cyrena.  Falk, the UN envoy was not “imprisoned”, he was “detained.”  There is a legal distinction in Ameriecan law, detention being confinement without trial and imprisonment with, an important distinction to lawyers.

To those of the less Educated who are cagged up, the distinction is of less importance. The inmates of Gitmo not being noticable happier if told they are being “detained”, not “imprisoned.”  The corruption of Americna political language, this being an easily seen example, which justifies murder and gives solidarity to pure wind, as Orwell stated, is essential in deluding the American population.  It sounds so much better and less awful, doesn’t it,  if someone is detained rathered than imprisoned or caged up.

I was astonished how easily Prgressive truthers took to the new Orwellian language.  I objected to some I correspond with, like Street of Z Net, Chomsky’s outlet, and he argued for the distinction.  I distruxt anyone who does.  The reason tht the American people are so clueless is because pseudo-Progressive truthers are so delusive, cowardly and repressive, always ready to suck up to power or implicitly legitmate its oppression.

John R. Bloxson Jr. I try to avoid name calling:it’s childish so I don’t believe I called anyone a bigot but I did point out to sepharad how idiotic it is to call others neanderthals when the people being defended are behaving like Ghengis Khan with a really bad migraine. As for the Palestinian ‘propaganda’ again this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. The Israelis long ago realized that past historical wrongs can be used to justify any unjust cause and they use propaganda constantly and shamelessly. That doesn’t make what they say true, of course. The Palestinians have been treated disgracefully for decades and no amount of ranting can change that: they have been murdered for decades and when they retaliated they were branded terrorists. You tell me, is it right that they should be massacred and stripped of everything they owned just because they were on land some other people wanted and which they knew they could take because Europe and America had a really bad conscience over what they didn’t do to protect Europe’s Jews? You need to keep reminding yourself that the people who killed Europe’s Jews were Christian Europeans not Muslim Arabs. And no matter how you rant you can’t make it right for the IDF to shoot toddlers in the back or to drop chemical weapons like white phosphorous in a densely populated area like Gaza. These are war crimes and they will remain war crimes even if no one is ever brought to justice. This is a fight over land and justice and you don’t need to be a legal genius to see who committed the first agression and the first injustice in Palestine. But in this matter, in the end, you have to say ‘He who is without sin cast the first stone’. Everyone can go on recounting horror stories till the cows come home but the fact remains (and it is the only fact that really matters): the Palestinians were attacked and massacred and driven off their land and robbed of all of their possessions so that Jewish settlers could take what was rightfully the property of the Palestinians. Of course you would rather discuss something else, anything else, but that is the salient fact. The Palestinians have suffered a great historical wrong, just as the Jews did and one does not give moral validity to the other but since the Palestinians have no army, no navy and no airforce I’m on their side because I hate injustice and unfairness. As for taking the cake, yes please. I like cake but I don’t like infanticide and I call it what it is, which is what set you off on a rant.

If I am bigotted for the Jew you definatly are bigitted against the Jew it is you brand of bigottry that killed 623 Burchalders out of 657 from 1942-1945
it was your socialist buddies in the Soviet Union that killed many of the Polnachzeck in 1919 there were 1268, in 1938 there were just 127 left the rest died in the Gulag’s.  I do not have to justify what is going down in Gaza but you are the ones pressuring Israel to slit its own throat and deal with Terrorist who by the way hate you just as much being from the Great Satan as me beig Jewish from my grandmothers families. So how does it feel to be the target just like we have been well we have sworn never again but you seem to want the distruction of us. We did want to live free and at peace but your kind continue to deny that we have a right to exist just as Hamas, Hezzbolluh, and most of the Muslim world deny us and you
don’t have to agree with me but you do have to look at the Hatred that started it and it wasn’t the Jews as you and your buddies seem to want to blame.  For the last thirty years we have time and time agian bent over backwards, and they send us suicide Bombers, they shell our homes, they destroy our artifacts trying to eraise our History to the land in 1993 it was Israel offering 96% of what Arafat demanded yet he refussed it and started the Intafadas, in 2005 it was Jewish people that the I.D.F. forcably removed from the Gaza strip but that wasn’t enough so the Arabs of Gaza voted in Hamas a terrorist organization who did one thing they promised no more suicide bombers and they have been good to their word for the last three years but they did nothing else to show Israel any respite so for the last three years the Rocket rain down and now that the Jews do something to stop them they are at fault O.K. we have big shoulder we’re at fault and do not deserve to live as a ethnic group. When will you preassure H amas and Hezzbolluh to stop and by the way the people who inhabit The West Bank have no Israelis occupying it and you have sunk billions into trying to help them help themselves but where has all the money gone? By the way the last Rocket will be fired when the last Jew is dead that is the real truth you will not recognize because you seem to think all men start out good when science and sociology have
over many years concluded just the opposite. I make no excuse we can not back down and you will never change your closed minds any way so I will just read your diatribes and know that you are heading us toward the new gas chambers and ovens but this time we will not go willingly
      Trithoverlies/Truthoverlies.
          John R. Bloxson Jr.

Trith,

You are the bigot. Nobody has “history” on their side. History is just the narrative of the past.

FYI it is easy to rebutt your pathetic arguments, plenty of others here have done a fine job; no need for me to contribute on that. I don’t need to waste my time debating with a xenophobic POS like yourself; you have no interest in understanding, only in promoting (and justifying) hatred and bigotry.

The history of what happened to the Jews is no validation for what Israel is doing today. Its really that simple but a Judeosupremist like yourself can’t handle that.

I don’t hate Jews, I hate chauvinist bigots such as yourself (regardless of religious persuasion). You are just an uneducated nastly little Ziobigot. I know it, you know it and the entire MB knows it.

BTW you need to go back to remedial spelling class.

While most of the posters here are civil towards animals like you I am so outraged at your BS that I call you what I know you are. Deal with it.

By Folktruther, January 15 at 12:04 pm

•  “Israel has continued its attack on civilian UN facilities, using phosphorous bombs to shell a headquarters in Gaza City.  This attack on the UN began with their imprisonment of the UN rep Richard Falk (who is Jewish) and continued with the bombing of numerous sites.”
Folktruther,
This part about how the attack on the UN began is totally Incorrect! For starters, Richard Falk was not “imprisoned” by the Israelis, nor is he associated with the UNRWA whose facilities are under bombardment.
Richard Falk traveled to Israel in his capacity as the elected Special Rap/Envoy for this specific conflict, based on his experience in international law and human rights. Chris Hedges has covered the details a few times in his latest reports.
He was there just before the all-out assault was launched, and he’d gone as a result of the blockade that had been going on for months, because of the huge humanitarian disaster that was already in progress because these innocent civilians has no food, water, medical supplies, etc. He was there in his capacity to try negotiate something that would get the crossings open and survival supplies into Gaza. So they detained and harassed him at the airport, and then threw him out.
But he’s not imprisoned now. He’s back home in Southern California and while I’ve not spoken to him since his return, it’s obvious from a simple search that he’s still his old active and outspoken self, and still addressing this massacre. He’s been outspoken on the Israeli atrocities for as long as they’ve been perpetrating them, which is exactly why he was thrown out.

So here’s a video of an interview with him where he explains what happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkF1XxdXQFc rights.

That said, the attack on the UN facilities in Gaza has nothing to do with the fact that Professor Falk was there. That’s just Israel showing the rest of the world what most of us figured out long ago.

Calling People names is the last resort of one with no good reply.  I do say Liberal, Leftist, and Comunist/socialist but each of these is only perjoritive because they are true Neanderthal on the other hand is a early ancestor of modern man who if you believe the scientist all died out artound 70,000 to 100,000 years ago. I am sorry that you could find no inteligent rebuttal to the Conservative side but it does not surprise me in the least since we have been called every name in the book because your arguments are weak and ineffectual with out the use of name calling. Yes the Jewish peolpe are the reason for all the problems in the world we have been your kicking boy for nearly 4000
years blame it on the Jew put them in Ghetto’s, Shot them beat them, Kill them, It was happening when the Pharoh ordered the death of every Jewish boy baby, it was their when Haman tried to have all the Jewish
people in the Persea murdered, it was there when the Romans murdered between 300,000 and 700,000
in Jerusalem in 70 A.D. and another 150,000 in 110 A.D. It was there when the Muslims captured Jewusalem in 640 A.D. it was there when the Crusaders captured Jerusalem in the late 900’s A.D.
it was there when the Turks recaptured Jerusalem, it was there with every purge and progrom in Russia, and Poland, and every other part of Europe it was there when the Spannish Inquesitor who may have called himself a Christian murdered Jews and had the rest thrown out of Spain, it was the same when The English forced out the Jews and it was more of the same in 1919-1939 In Russia, and 1934-1945 in Germany, and much of the rest of Europe. and even here in America our hands aren’t clean 25,000 children none over the age of ten were trapped in Vichy France and our great State Department would not lift a hand to save them in 1941 so you see it is always the Jews fault we are the convienant target for your hatred today just as it was 4000 years ago so continue hating us while our sciences and inavations have blessed the nations we are still not wanted. So Who is the Bigot here Me who has the history on my side or you who has only the hot air of Pravda means truth?
          Trithoverlies/ Truthoverlies.
            John R. Bloxson Jr.

Sharon yanked the Israeli settlers out of Gaza to turn it into an open air concentration camp.  The current invasion has the military aim of blocking Hamas tunnels to prevent the delivery of food and ammunition. This would leave Gaza entirely surrounded by US-Israel’s starvation blockade, which can then be used to steal Gaza’s off-shore natural gas reseerves.

Bush-Obama are currently agreeing to send in Peacekeepers to block the tunnels, according to today’s NYTIMES. This would directly involve the US in a third anti-Muslim war.

brewer: You do realize what the quotation marks are for? Who said anything about hordes? We are pretty much in agreement on this issue, except I have no bias toward either side. As I’ve stated numerous times, BOTH sides are wrong. I do feel that Israel is a bit more wrong than the Palestinians, though. The example that they are following was set by America. Both America and Israel are using the “war on terror” to justify damned near anything. I realize it’s probably a waste of energy, but maybe our new administrtion will “change” our blind support for Israel. Thank you for the dialogue.

Neanderthals? How dare you call anyone else a neanderthal sepharad when Israel is behaving with such vicious disregard for human life and human decency in Gaza, as they have in Lebanon as well. To hear you rant you would think that up to now the IDF have been model citizens. They have not. They are completely out of control and have been for decades. America funds their murder and arms them with every weapon of mass destruction available. In my opinion America is even more to blame than Israel, because without America’s money, weapons and complicity they couldn’t murder defenceless civilians and drop white phosphorous on cities. Imagine if what is happening in Gaza was happening to New York. We’d never hear the end of it - as we know. It would be an attack on ‘civilization’ and they would be ‘hating us for our freedoms’ all over again. One way or another everything you’ve said is a lie. No surprises there. How could you possibly tell the truth? Leave the neanderthals out of it, next to the IDF they were decent creatures. Leave Masada out of it too, those people chose death over slavery; if you want to compare anyone to those brave souls compare the Palestians, who’ve made the same choice.

If you really want to see a bigoted, racist site, and at the top of Howards favorites list.

http://www.masada2000.org/

Revisionist history at it’s best.

‘The reason that Jews don’t go about colonizing and wreaking violence on other people…’? I had to read this steaming heap of manure twice because I simply couldn’t believe that anyone could be this stupid. I was wrong. Someone can. The Israelis have stolen an entire country and even when they built the wall that turned Gaza into a concentration camp they stole more Palestinian land to do it. In Gaza they lured an entire Palestinian family into coming out of their house and when the grandmother appeared waving a white flag it was the signal to open fire on all of them. A two year old girl had her spinal cord severed and will never walk again. Israel is dropping white phosphorous on Gaza - this is forbidden by international law- and inflicting horrendous burns on the helpless and unarmed children below. This is not a war, it’s a massacre. The only difference is, it’s happening for weeks not hours and Bush and Cheney and all the other war criminals are still in the White House so the IDF can go on murdering children to their heart’s content until Obama’s inauguration. What fun! It’s almost as good as hunting rabbits. If you really think sepharad that you’re fooling me, think again. All that crap about Masada is just trying to blow smoke in my eyes. Don’t waste your time. The IDF are deliberately targeting children in Gaza because children are arriving at the hospital shot in the head, sometimes twice. I can’t imagine what kind of raw courage it takes to shoot a defenceless two year old girl in the back or to stomp on a baby’s head until it cracks but the heroes of Masada would be hanging their heads in shame to see it. ‘Wreaking violence’? I think you mean ‘wreaking havoc’ which is exactly what Israel is doing in Gaza and in my opinion they’re doing it as a provocation to try to get an Arab country to react so they can attack Iran and start a world war. It’s just a fantasy, of course. No one will go to war for a country that behaves like chimps on a rampage.

They then “gave” Israel a place (based on the torah) for the jews to live in safety.

This is simply not so and is the reason I linked you to Bidstrup’s essay. A ” Jewish State” was never intended under the Balfour Declaration or the League of Nations mandate and the British White Paper (1922) spells it out:

“Nor does the special position assigned to the Zionist Organization in Article IV of the Draft Mandate for Palestine imply any such functions. That special position relates to the measures to be taken in Palestine affecting the Jewish population, and contemplates that the organization may assist in the general development of the country, but does not entitle it to share in any degree in its government.”

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/15470

Most people reference the U.N. plan for partitioning as the basis for the “Jewish State” but in fact, it was never ratified by either side. Israel unilaterally declared itself a state and commenced the ethnic cleansing.

The Palestinians left, while they waited for some combined Arab armies to “wipe Israel from the face of the earth”. Israel hammered their collective asses

There were between 250,000 and 400,000 refugees created by a systematic cleansing policy before May 15 1948 when the Arab League moved to stabilize the area.
Benny Morris, himself a Zionist, is the foremost Historian of the period;

”...based on many documents that were not available to me when I wrote the original book, most of them from the Israel Defense Forces Archives. What the new material shows is that there were far more Israeli acts of massacre than I had previously thought. To my surprise, there were also many cases of rape. In the months of April-May 1948, units of the Haganah [the pre-state defense force that was the precursor of the IDF] were given operational orders that stated explicitly that they were to uproot the villagers, expel them and destroy the villages themselves.”
http://www.logosjournal.com/morris.htm

As to the “Arab Hordes” myth:

“In the Event of invading [Arab] forces were limited to approximately 30,000 men. The strongest single contingent was the Jordanian one (which was in league with Ben Gurion - Ed). Next came Egyptians with 5,500 men, then the Iraqis with 4,500 who ….. were joined by perhaps 3,000 local irregulars. The total was thus around eight rather under strength brigades, some of them definitely of second-and even third-rate quality. To these must be added approximately 2,000 Lebanese (one brigade) and 6,000 Syrians (three brigades). Thus, even though the Arab countries [population] outnumbered the Yishuv by better then forty-to-one, in terms of military manpower available for combat in Palestine the two sides were fairly evenly matched. As time went on and both sides sent reinforcements the balance changed in the Jews’ favor; by October they had almost 90,000 men and women under arms, the Arabs only 68,000.”
(Martin Van Creveld The Sword And The Olive, p. 77-78)
(Martin van Creveld, an Israeli soldier and Hebrew university historian, is a renowned military strategist who is the author of twelve books and is the only non-American on the U.S. Army’s required reading list for officers.)

This should be enough to send anyone back to the history books.

Trithoverlies: “To all you calling Israel the problem and declaring what they are doing as Ethnic cleansing what a farce .”

You are saying that truth = farce.  It doesn’t surprise me since you cannot spell truth correctly. Zionist propaganda is not working.

Israel has passed a law preventing the Arab parties from running in the election next month.  This is inevitable as Israel (and the US) becaome increasingly fascist in form as they are in substance.  They are rounding up and imprisioning Arab citizens of Israel in response to the Israeli Arabs, along with the rest of the world, identify with the Palestinians.  Israel routinely tortures their prisoners, a practice being taken over in the US.

Israel has continued its attack on civilian UN facilities, using phosphorous bombs to shell a headquarters in Gaza City.  This attack on the UN began with their imprisonment of the UN rep Richard Falk (who is Jewish) and continued with the bombing of numerous sites.

The Arab world now understands that Obama is continuing the Bushite policies of the past eight years and favors the etnic cleansing of Palestine under the usual public relations rhetoric.  Hopefully, this will help to overthrow US-Isreal puppets in Egypt, Jordan and elsewhere in the Muslim world, who will then support Palestinian resistence.

So, it doesn’t matter what the facts are?

“Hamas in Gaza will have its victory, according to the official account, despite having broken the truce that had prevailed in the months leading up to this crisis. Resuming rocket attacks on Israel was even more stupid and useless—with catastrophic results for Gaza’s people—than what Israel’s leadership has done.

Even if it were true, as widely claimed, that it was the Israelis who for their own reasons deliberately first broke the truce, the Hamas leaders are doubly stupid for having reacted like automatons to the provocation. Their reaction will have caused the destruction of their community and the deaths of hundreds, possibly thousands—when the count is made—of their guiltless people.”

You present a lie, and then you entertain the notion that it is a lie.  This is very odd journalism.  The first paragraph is nonsense.  The second has some merit, but it displays—still—a lack of understanding, or willful ignorance on what Israel’s plans actually are.

I’m quite sick of countering the endless Zionist propaganda that holds the Palestinians responsible for their own genocide.  Israel started this war, the last war, every battle previous.  They use very thin excuses for why they must annihilate civilians by the thousands, rationales that seem to resonate in this morally grey land we call America.

Apparently the Israelis have a “right to exist” in any borders they choose to exist in.  The Palestinians, of course, have no similar right and can be starved with military blockades and a medieval siege that is ongoing for sixteen months now.  Of course the long term objective of such a siege is to force the people to flee for their lives, en mass.  This brutality and genocidal campaign by Israel was long planned and seamlessly fits into a century of terrorism and ethnic cleansing. 

Of course we should obsess over the Palestinians fighting back, firing ineffectual rockets that have no guidance systems and little firepower.  As if THAT were the real issue.  That is laughable, though not very funny.

Israel war planners use the tired tactic of bombing the Palestinians (the legitimate elected government of Gaza being Hamas), and provoking a response.  Their echo chamber propaganda organs then use the response (ineffectual rockets) as some kind of “proof” that their version of a “war on terror”, actually a war of terror is legitimate.  The UN has thankfully disagreed for 60 years with their claims and their atrocities which amount to genocide.

Seeing Through the Lies
The Facts About Hamas and the War on Gaza
By NORMAN FINKELSTEIN
http://crimesofthestate.blogspot.com/2009/01/facts-about-hamas-and-war-on-gaza.html

Brewer: At no time did I endorse, apologize for or advocate what Israel is doing. I have been watching this “war” in the Mid-East for my entire life. After WWII, the west felt very guilty for what had happened to the jews in eastern Europe. They then “gave” Israel a place (based on the torah) for the jews to live in safety. When Israel was “given” that land, there were Palestinians living there. The Palestinians left, while they waited for some combined Arab armies to “wipe Israel from the face of the earth”. Israel hammered their collective asses, kept the land they were “given”, plus what they got in the war. When the Palestinians left, Israel claimed they abandoned their land, so they lost all rights to it. I do NOT agree with most of this. Israel should NEVER have been “given” THAT land in the first place. HOWEVER, the fact remains that Israel DOES have the land, so now MUST be dealt with accordingly. The Palestinians have tried to fight back, with very little aid from their muslim brethren. SO yes, I do believe that peaceful protest would get Palestine much further than the course they are currently following. If the Palestinians were seen to be sitting in the middle of the street, and then were killed by the Israelis, then the Israelis would be indistinguishable from the nazis. If you are willing to blow yourself up with a suicide bomb, why not take your chances non-violently? It worked in India. Please take the time to think about what I say, instaed of answering in anger. As far as “people like me being part of the problem” goes; that’s bullshit. People who wade into these things in anger, with fear and retribution in their hearts; THEY are the problem. Most people over there, Palestinian or Israeli, simply want to live. They, like a lot of Americans, are simply following the herd when it comes to war. It is far easier to go to war than make a stand for peace against your country and your neighbors. I realize that I am just a nobody, but I haven’t heard any better ideas from anyone else. Everyone keeps suggesting the same old things. They will not work. As much as you would like them to, Israel will not go away. I do not blame them, for EVERYONE has the right to live. What would you suggest?

Trithoverlies

You are a deliusional bigot. Nobody with any education or intelligence is buying into the BS that you and your ilk spew. Israel is a rogue nation pure and simple. The best solution is a state with one man one vote but that would threaten the supremacy of the Jews who need untermenschen Palestinians to clean their toilets and do all the dirty work.

The world is getting tired of the lies and BS of twits like you and your friends. I don’t care if your feelings get hurt; in fact I hope you suffer as much as the Palestinian children your co-religionists have recently slaughtered.

To all you calling Israel the problem and declaring what they are doing as Ethnic cleansing what a farce . They have killed about 1000 Palestinians most Hamas fighters out of a population of nearly 1,000,000 socalled Palestinians so stop with the remarks about ethnic cleansing when you do not Know what you are talking about.  My family in Germany in 1939 numbered 645 men, women, and children, in 1945 out of that 23 survived the Death Camp at Auschwitz thats Ethnic cleansing so if you don’t understand the differance I feel sorry for you we will never allow ourselves to be put in that situation of being exsponged from the earth again so tell the Arabs socalled/ Palestinian to stop attempting to kill Israelis so their can be peace and the bologna about the Israelis starting this by breaking the cease fire that is bull mannuer the Terrorist of Hamas started by shelling an Israeli/arabe school in Israel the rockets where in flight for a whole 2 minutes so the kids only had one and a half minute before the first rocket landed on the play ground so agian wake up from your dream world where its all Israels fought they have a right to exist and until the Arabs colalling themeselves Palestinians kick out thte terrorist of Hamas, Hezzbulloh, and the Al-Aqusa Martyrs Brigade this will unfortunatly continue but unless you know what Ethnic Cleansing is don’t use the word to discribe what is happening in the Gaza strip what it is not even close. Ethnic cleansing was what they where attempting in Serbia the destruction of every muslim man, woman and child and WE stopped it not the U.N. but we America by holding the U.N’s nose to the grindstone and forcining them to do what they where made for.  We did nothing in Rhwanda to stop the murder of 1,000,000 that was criminal and we haven’t stopped the murder of the minority in Somalia so these are what Ethnic cleansing is when half the Arabs calling themselves Palestinians 2,500,000 are dead you can accuse Israel of The crime of Ethnic Cleansing so be quiet if you don’t know the truth and are parroting some leftist professor or Leftist news Reporter. I am sorry if I hurt your feelings but I am tired of the Liberal left telling lies and calling it truth.
                Trithoverlies,
              John R. Bloxson Jr.

KDelphi, always feel free to utilize what I post.  There is no need to ask but thank you for doing so.

mike112769

Israel wants a place to call their own

I still fail to see how this can justify taking someone else’s home by force, denying it has been done and refusing to compensate or give it back when found out.

However, while Hamas may have stopped suicide bombings, they did not stop other forms of warfare.

Resistance to an occupying force is permitted under the Geneva conventions. Preventing displaced persons from returning to their homes is not. Settling on occupied territory is not but it is being used by Israel as a weapon of war.

There is a good case to be made for the rockets. They are a form of protest that has taken very few lives - 15 in eight years. Probably fewer than the number of U.S. citizens run over by bicycle-riding protesters, certainly less than 1% of the Israeli road toll. None last year before this latest attack by Israel. They do, however, discourage settlement as they are designed to do.

The people of Sderot are complicit in a War Crime. Gazans own 30 times more of the land that Sderot sits on than do Jews. The Gazans who own this land are not permitted to even go there. Should those citizens of Sderot who live on Palestinian land wish to remain safe from rockets, they should move to somewhere they can legitimately own.
Even Moshe Dayan understood this:
”. . Let us not today fling accusation at the murderers. What cause have we to complain about their fierce hatred to us? For eight years now, they sit in their refugee camps in Gaza, and before their eyes we turn into our homestead the land and villages in which they and their forefathers have lived.” Moshe Dayan (Iron Wall, p. 101)

This is not a case of black and white. This is most definitely gray.

This makes you part of the problem Mike. The closer you get to it, the more black and white it becomes.

Do you blog on this subject only when there is a crisis?.
Hamas knows that the average Westerner does not think about Palestine until something like this happens or they fire a few rockets.
You see, Hamas knows exactly what they are doing. They know that it costs Palestinian blood to get people like us to check the facts and that, when we do, the greyness disappears.

These people have as much right to resist an occupation as did the French or any other nation during WWII.
That resistance has to be visible for thousands of miles because it is not just Israel they are fighting, it is the complacency of the West, who could put this thing right in a very short time and, if enough knew the facts, probably would. Please try to understand this one fact. If the resistance dies, so do the Palestinian People. They know it, I know it and a few other posters here know it. 60 years waiting for justice is way too long - check out the map:

http://tinyurl.com/9vdfdn

By the tone of your posts I have gained the impression that you are a relative newcomer to this conflict, confident in the reasonableness of your stance. If this is the case, I recommend reading Scott Bidstrup’s piece, “Origins of Conflict”:
http://www.bidstrup.com/zionism.htm

I cite this only because it is fairly concise,  readable and largely accurate. I’m not asking you to trust everything he says. Set yourself the task of verifying it all. It is a very interesting journey.

Shift—You do not mind if I post that link?? I didnt think you would, but, ...people sometimes say , “did you ask if you could use that name or link??”

lol..

Massive US Arms Shipment to Israel

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=11743

“If Hamas was serious about wanting to talk, letting Israel kill some of their people without retaliating”

You have got to be kidding me..

“...international support to win their case. The other Arab nations could do more for them, but choose not to. I suspect they don’t to make Israel look worse (if that’s possible)..”

They do not help , because the US pays them so much. That is the only way, it seems, that the US can get people to “not kill them”—pay them. I dont know what we do when China says, “hell with you”!We prop these guys up, and, pay them to torture for us. Then we preach “human rights”—!

There is an article in the Zionist New York Times which details that Abbas and Fatah, the US-Israel puppets, are so discredited now that they can’t ride in on Israel tanks to replace Hamas in Gaza.  And Venzuela and Bolivia have broken off diploimatic relations in protest.  The world legitimacy of US-Israel is in declune and their military credibility also marred.

If the Eyptian or Jordanian people overthrough the puppets that the US pays to rule them, it would increase Israel’s military problems as well and political problems.  So far this lonks like a worst disaster for Israel than the 2006 Lebanon war, also initiated by Olmert. 

Olmert is currently indicted for bribery which indicates the stature of Israel’s leaders.  The president of Israel was already convicted of rape. Israel is increasingly getting its leaders from the gutter.  Like the US.

brewer: “One way glass”? In the same sentence, I said that Israel wants to exterminate the Palestinians. Instead of saying Hamas I should have said Palestinians, because the truth is NO faction there would last long without support from the Palestinian people. However, while Hamas may have stopped suicide bombings, they did not stop other forms of warfare. Israel wants a place to call their own and as I said I can’t blame them for that . AT NO TIME did I condone what they are doing in pursuit of that goal. There is no way anyone can say that I am pro-Israel, just as nobody can say I am pro-Palestine. BOTH sides are wrong in the way they are pursuing their goals. Israel has long since taken enough land from the Palestinians. The Palestinians should have learned by now that they can NOT win a war with Israel. I still believe that the Palestinian people, be it Fatah, Hamas or any other faction need to change their tactics in pursuit of their goals. The Palestinians have NOT changed their tactics enough to effectively make a difference to Joe Public. You cannot claim to be peaceful while you are killing someone else. Please do not try to talk to me about the “war on terror”. That expression and idealogy is repugnant to me on many levels. It is one of the biggest disgraces in human history. The Palestinian people need massive amounts of international support to win their case. The other Arab nations could do more for them, but choose not to. I suspect they don’t to make Israel look worse (if that’s possible). If ALL Palestinians would lay down their arms and seek international support, Israel would quickly lose any morality they lay claim to. I agree that Israel wants nothing but land, and you apparently didn’t check out the web site I posted. I think you may have glanced at what I said, but didn’t read it. Most people seem to think one side or the other is wrong, but the fact is that both sides are wrong. This is not a case of black and white. This is most definitely gray.

brewer: My point was that they will pick up the fighting at the drop of a hat.

This is not correct. They held the truce despite Israel not fulfilling their part of the bargain. Thirty Gazans were killed and 50 in the West Bank before the truce was broken. Greenstock maintains that it was Fatah and other factions that recommenced the rockets in any case.
Hamas declared a moratorium on suicide bombing in 2004 and have stuck to it.

I realize they have tried to talk, but it’s hard to do so when the other side is continuing the fight

Israel does not want peace, they want the land. This is obvious to long time observers and is evidenced in a swathe of statements made by figures from before Ben Gurion’s time down to Avigdor Lieberman just the other day.

The Israelis want a place to call their own.

We all want stuff. Only Israel deems it moral to take it by killing the rightful owners of it.

You must admit though that there is a very vocal part of Hamas that wants the total extinction of the Jews

This is a classic case of the one-way glass.

“The spiritual leader of Israel’s ultra-orthodox Shas party, Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, has provoked outrage with a sermon calling for the annihilation of Arabs.

“It is forbidden to be merciful to them. You must send missiles to them and annihilate them. They are evil and damnable,”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1270038.stm

Yosef is the spiritual leader of the third largest political party in Israel.

Hamas has offered a truce by way of “Hudna” which is a fatwah. Like a Papal Bull is binding on all Catholics, Hudna is binding on all Muslims. You cannot have it both ways. Israel likes to paint Hamas as religious fanatics who follow their religious leaders blindly. If this is correct, Hudna offers a meaningful truce. If not, Israel should drop this rhetoric and deal with this as a political struggle. In fact, the Political wing of Hamas is secular, has never adopted the Hamas Charter.
Listen to the BBC interview with Sir Jeremy.

If Hamas wants Joe Public here in America to sympathize with them more, they WILL have to change their tactics.

They have. Joe Public just never got to hear about it.

“war on terror” is a ridiculous invention designed to excuse the type of behavior that we are seeing from Israel. I can give you chapter and verse of how the Jewish State is founded on terror. If you are not aware of that, see this interview with Israel’s foremost Zionist Historian, Benny Morris.

http://www.logosjournal.com/morris.htm

If Hamas was serious about wanting to talk, letting Israel kill some of their people without retaliating

They have been doing this for years. Israel kills people who just want to talk. Almost every member of the “talking” wing of Hamas has either been assassinated or survived an assassination attempt. Rachel Corrie just wanted to talk.

http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=Hamas+targeted+assassination&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Public relations is HUGE when you fight a war.

Hamas is winning this one.

brewer: My point was that they will pick up the fighting at the drop of a hat. I realize they have tried to talk, but it’s hard to do so when the other side is continuing the fight while they are supposed to be talking. When Hamas wants to talk, one man can shoot at an Israeli and Israel will start the bombing. In their current way of fighting Israel, Hamas can’t afford to lose the soldiers by not promptly retaliating. There’s enough blame here for both sides. Hamas doesn’t seem to want to let Israel have their land. I don’t blame them for this. The Israelis want a place to call their own. I don’t blame them for that. I do blame Israel for needing a bigger and bigger buffer zone for their security. You must admit though that there is a very vocal part of Hamas that wants the total extinction of the Jews and, by and large the feeling is mutual. One side will have to do something different to even begin to see a change. Israel has the upper hand, so they will not. If Hamas wants Joe Public here in America to sympathize with them more, they WILL have to change their tactics. I fear that the main reason (lately) Americans ignore the Palestinians’ plight is because of the “war on terror”, which is in reality a war on islam. If the Palestinians were a christian people, we would be looking at a totally different situation. There simply isn’t a big enough group in America willing to stick their neck out for muslims. Big business can sell weapons to Israel with impunity due to this. Not all Palestinians are in Hamas, but they do all want their own state. Until they act as one people, they are doomed under the current conditions. If Israel would give the Palestinians back some dignity and treat them as people instead of animals, maybe Hamas would lose most of their grass roots support. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e32_1231680425    If Hamas was serious about wanting to talk, letting Israel kill some of their people without retaliating would greatly enhance their credibilty on the world stage, while making Israel seem like a facist state. Public relations is HUGE when you fight a war. This would be the most effective weapon they have had to date.

but when was the last time a Hamas leader SERIOUSLY wanted to just talk?

Perhaps you need to re-phrase that to:

When was the last time we were given the opportunity to hear Hamas talk?

Hamas has consistently offered a meaningful, ten year truce. You probably do not know this. Here are a few urls:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/07/AR2006040700137.html

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/1104-26.htm

http://mondediplo.com/2007/01/05hamas

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jan/31/comment.israelandthepalestinians

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/06/gaza-israel-hamas

http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_7823000/7823746.stm

This last one links to an interview with Tony Blair and Sir Jeremy Greenstock. Blair is his usual duplicitous self but what Sir Jeremy (former British Ambassador to the U.N.) says will blow the minds of many.

NB
These are informative and valuable articles that need to be exposed to a larger audience. Search topics for more.
Hamas truce, Hudna Khaled Mashal

Cyrena: I know that not all of them feel that way, but when was the last time a Hamas leader SERIOUSLY wanted to just talk? Every time both parties start talking, someone does something that sets the whole thing off again. Israel is even worse. They believe in the pre-emptive strike so much that they look for things to pre-empt. The Palestinians are a proud people who are on the edge. They WILL retaliate at the first opportunity. Their religion guarantees them paradise if they fall in a holy war against an infidel, as they consider Jews. They both resort to killing each other at the drop of a hat. As far as the non-violence goes, please consider this: If the Palestinian people truly practiced this, the people in the west who are supporting Israel would lose what little credibilty they have left. Too many people (who should know better) think that the Israelis can do no wrong. They believe Palestinians can do no right. Peoples’ religious beliefs, unfortunately, play a large part in this belief. However, it would be hard to justify the cold-blooded murder of a peaceful, non-violent Palestinian protester by Israeli militia. As long as the Palestinians even throw one rock at an Israeli, Israel and their supporters will claim the moral high ground. It should be abundantly clear to everyone by now that the Palestinians have no prayer at all of winning a conventional war with Israel. Given the support that the west gives Israel, Israel is more than a match for several countries at once over there. If you cannot win by playing Israel’s game, why not change the rules? Yes Cyrena, I realize that Israel is not the good guy here. But the fact is, the powers that be CLAIM they are the good guys fighting Palestinian terrorists. Too many sheople here swallow that lie, partly (I think) out of religious bigotry. There is enough (christian) hatred for BOTH religions here that a lot of people are glad to see them killing off one another. How can the U.S. president tell Americans Israel is the good guy if Israel starts slaughtering unarmed civilians just like Hitler did? I think (hope) the uproar here would be enough to finally force the American government/war machine to cut Israel loose. Without western support, Israel will have to tread more carefully. I may be wrong, but I do know that continuing as they have been is getting the Palestinians absolutely nowhere fast. Ask India if peaceful non-violent protest is a waste of time. THRITHOVERLIES: Please bend over, firmly grab your shoulders, and pull your head out of your anal orifice. Also, does your computer have spell-checker?

After having read your article CYRENA i would have to agree that your really pissed -off at the moment but with every reason to feel the way that you do .I am aware that many commentators are
either unaware of what is transpiring or blatantly misinforming the populace for whatever ignoble reason that they may have.In a nutshell i would equate the Israeli Palestinian conflict as a Starfish which
is exerting a continuous pressure on a Clam in order to open it ,and then consume it .This nonsense is not about Hamas or about Quassom rockets or any of the fine propoganda lies that are belching
from the Zionists oral cavities.It is about the annexation of the Gaza Strip and the West bank followed by the conundrum as to how to displace the Palestinians from there homeland without placing
blame on the Zionist’s so-called infallible reputation.The unfortunate aspect of this injustice is that it is supported by the Majority of the Western Govt’s leaders and their uncrupulous Media barons,what
makes this entire affair so pitiful is the reasons for their unwavering support,is it due to the fact that they really believe that the Chosen Ones’ are religiously entitled unequivocaly to the holy land of the Levant
at the expense of all other people (that would seem very selfish indeed, considering that it is basred on moral values) or is it due primarily to financial considerations which the Jews are known to exert
regardless of morality (a person that is well off financially usually distances oneself from so-called problems).Robert Fisk mentioned recently that the Status Quo will not change with regard to the new White House
administration ,i am affraid that his assesment is accurate .The Obama administration will brocker a cease-fire followed by a partial lifting of the blockade to calm the anti-semetics of this planet followed by an uncertain calm ,which in the end will resort to the resumption of the conflict, hence the Starfish will resume it’s pressure in order to open the clam and the whole shebang will start all over again.  Oh is Cyrena derived
from the french word for a murmaid.

what would happen if the Palestinians ....... Use non-violent resistance a la Ghandi amd MLK to make their point.

They would continue to get shot or bombed, which is also what would happen if they do not protest and is what happens when they take up armed resistance. It is also what will continue to happen until they move off the land their forefathers have occupied since the dawn of time and cede it to a foreign invading force.

http://www.israelnewsagency.com/israelpr10016.html
http://tinyurl.com/7rcesg
http://tinyurl.com/7pnofa

ThnkUBush responds to Purple Girl
“By ThnkUBush, January 14 at 8:46 am
rom By Purple Girl, January 14 at 5:13 am:

“Please soemone tell me ONE thing Israel has ever Done for US”
~*~
Here’s his response:

•  “I too would like to see an answer to this question. I can think of dozens of examples of how Israel has been a proven and strident friend to the United States. Several that come to mind have actually saved hundreds of American lives. And others that have prevented dozens of attacks against American Embassies and interests around the world.”

~~~
WHAT ARE THE EXAMPLES??? WHAT has Israel done, (since you say several come to mind) that has “actually saved hundreds of American lives and prevented dozens of attacks against American Embassies and other interests around the world?”

You’re as full of shit as the namesake you wanna thank.

by mike112769, January 14 at 8:18 am

•  “I would be very interested to see what would happen if the Palestinians would do as Tom Clancy suggested in The Sum of all Fears: Use non-violent resistance a la Ghandi amd MLK to make their point. I realize it goes against their cultural ethos, but it would play out much better on the world stage, resulting in a lot of pressure on Israel. It’s hard to claim you’re the good guy if the terrorists aren’t shooting at you. Imagine Hamas fighters sitting peacefully in the road singing “We Shall Overcome”!”

I hope you’re kidding mike, but there’s one part of your statement here, that makes me fear that you are not. Specifically the rather biased comment that you realize it ‘goes against the cultural ethos of the Palestinians to use non-violent resistance.” Exactly how do you ‘realize’ that? Sound like typical Western arrogance to me. And how does attempting to survive starvation become violent resistance any way? The so-called ‘terrorists’ weren’t SHOOTING at anybody for months. In fact, they’ve just been sitting around starving, which hardly leaves them with enough energy to sit in the road singing ‘we shall overcome’ as the IDF tanks run them over.
You can’t possibly believe that the only reason the Israelis are slaughtering the Palestinians is because of those little rockets.

And if you don’t think the whole world doesn’t already KNOW that Israel is NOT ‘the good guy’ then you must have only just tuned in on this 60-year old exercise in genocide/ethnic cleansing.

World opinion AGAINST Israel is 14-1, as of the last UN vote. The US (Israel’s Terrorist Twin)is its only backer.

But, that’s about to change, and then they will have ZERO protection from the consequences of their actions.

So Israel is already under pressure…tons of it. That’s why they’re doing this all out act of pure insanity.

William Pfaff here takes-to-task the Palestinians who reacted to Israeli provocations for being “....stupid….automatons….”  He might as well’ve called all involved in that “....concantenation….” of mass insanity “civilized individuals.”  People in “the Holy Land” can no more help their selfs from behaving the way they are than theamericanpeople can refrain from the mindless consumerism that is so sysytematically destroying even their miserable half-lives.  Domesticated Humans are trapped in a “global” Zombie Jamboree, and react in programmed response to promptings generated by their exploiters.

Seeing otherwise thoughtful commentors here rise to the “bait” (and swallow the hooks) tossed-out by agents with agendas by-design-and-intent inimical to any genuine Human interest, is evidence enough of what’s really going-on in their virtual world-o’-hurt, for those of us surviving Savages looking-on.  That few if any among ‘em have any sense of the real nature of their common predicament is likewise a consequence of the CONtraption’s design and operations.

This thing that is reducing you all to ashes and atoms, Sisters and Brothers, is itself all-of-a-piece.  Trying to affect “parts” of it as (artifactual-anyway) “individuals” is only giving it more of what fuels its depradations.  Only in the organic Human FORM of what Lakotahs call Tiyoshpaye can you respond to this thing that is eating you and our Mother Earth alive.

Better get it TOGETHER….‘cause you’ll sure-as-hell get-it “individually.”

HokaHey!

RdV,

“There are many sources who claim Israel was the first to break the truce. There are an equal number claiming it was Hamas.”

Links please.

From the Israeli Terrorist Information Centre site.

http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/pdf/hamas_e017.pdf

“The cessation of the fighting was supposed to lead to the opening of the crossings between the Gaza Strip and Israel”

Israeli did not honour this from the beginning.

It also states:

“Hamas was careful to maintain the ceasefire.”

And admits that the ceasefire was initially broken by Israel:

On November 4 the IDF carried out a military action close to the border security fence on the Gazan side to prevent an abduction planned by Hamas,”

This:

“to prevent an abduction planned by Hamas,”

Is laughable. They killed six Gazans trying to dig a tunnel, a fairly natural enterprise for a starving people. If they were planning an abduction, why not arrest them in the act?

Now thats dramatic non-reciprocal entertainment.

 
      http://news.antiwar.com/2009/01/12/israeli-sightseers- flock-to-border-to-watch-gaza-killings/

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/1/14/leading_israeli_scholar_avi_shlaim_israel

This is by Avi Shlaim, “Israel Committing ‘State’ Terror in Gaza Attack, Preventing Peace”.

Triv—Yes, at least Reagan CHARGED them for the bombs!” Iran et al need to get with the capitalist theory of war making!
“...sad truth.  This conflict will only worsen until Messiah comes when their will be peace.” For “true believers” only, right?

breswerstroupe- “In any case, Israel did not obey an important condition of the truce from day one - the opening of the crossings.-”

True, and , much more iportant than the weight it has been given in the press..almost as many are being found, starved to death, as fall victim to bombs…

Maragaret Curry—To answer your question, the uS would do the same thing. That is why I am angry at the uS—well, one reason.

As Sinclair Lewis said, “When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag, carrying a cross”.

“You are actually admitting that you have never seen, or taken the time to learn, the other side of this equation.”

  Lol! Has there ever been any other side?

Fadel, this is no time to become discouraged.  Hamas is fighting back because there is nothing else they can do,  They have fifteen thousand fighters and, the last figures I have seen from Israel, three hundred of them have been killed, a probable exaggeration.  Most people killed or who die of malnutraition in this type of war against the population are are old and sick men and women and children.

If Hamas survives they win.  It is quite true that this makes the likelyhood of a real two state solution more remote, but this isn’t Hamas’s fault.  A two state solution now on the part of US-Israel is lipservice to justify and divert attention from Israeli ethnic cleansing.

This is what Hamas is fighting against and they are supported by the Palestinian population as well s the world Muslim community.  If Israel does not destroy them, they will grow stronger, as Hezbollah did during the Lebanon invasion.  This is in no real sense reprocal self destruction.

Masada was not a military defense, but a form of defiant sucide to avoid Roman crucifixion and slavery.  Hamas is defending the Gazan population from the starvation blockade and the invasion of the population.  There is no similarity at all.  Pfaff as Berwerstruope has illustrated, is simply supporting Israel under the guise of condemning both parties.

Buck up, Fadel, things are bound to get worse.

Invisogoth,
You are one sided as well do you think that all the
Rockets, AK-47’s and other weapons are being given to Hamas and Hezbolluh and Al-Queda free and all the magazines and bullits ofcourse not your argument is a none starter it only points the finger at Us what about Russia selling those rockets to Iran who than slipps them to her sarigates Hamas, Hezbulloh, The Talahban, Al-quida, so forth so stop blaming the Us for trying to combat terrorist so that we may not expeariance another 9/11 or worse you don’t have the answers and want to blame only one side rather than look at ther truth.  Israel offered in 1993 96% of what Arafat demanded was Israel that went home and started the First Intafada NO It was Arafat and he won an nobel Peace prize for it, When the Road map to Peace was first offered who turnned it down Arafat, and Hamas and Hezbulloh, and even when Israel took the first steps without the Arab Authorities taking one step It is still Israels fault You are misinformed and do not even check the facts before you point fingers at America and Isrtael.
      Some advice that will help make you not look foolish check out the facts before you speak even if the come from a former President who was wrong on the facxts aswell The only people occupying
the wast Bank and Gaza until a fgew days ago was the socalled Palestinian Authority and Hamas not Israel who had withdrawn its settlement but you do not want to remember this fact do you.

                Trithoverlies
              John R. Bloxson Jr.

You and the rest of your buddies keep saying the samoamo things that didn’t work in 1914,1941, and want work now. Our big tank Ditch nolonger exist we now have to worry about 3 and 4 stage rockets with Nulear war heads we must be proactive rather than reactive.  Unless you want to bury 13,000,000 americans at a time so the same goes for a nation of 5,000,000 when they are attacked repeatedly with rockets after signing a cease fire and just three days latter Hamas begins firing rockets into Israel where 500,000 people Arab and Jew live so Israel does the only things it can first blockade Hamas in the hopes that the modertates will force Hamas out and when the whole idiot Leftest try to force Israel to open the border crossings they do and Hamas fires twice as many rockets weep for the Arbs in Gaza because they where invaded and conquored by Hamas what three years ago and the World said nothing against the terrorist group Hamas which is not a political organization like the Democrates but on par
with the Bolshevics of 1917-1970 with their terror tactics and murder of all moderates and their families so where were you liberal leftest then cheering Hamas on is where you were so now poor old Hamas is getting pounded for their perverted Idiology you come out and make Israel the target of your wrath rather than the real bad guys Hamas so stop check your facts before you make fools of yourselves I have and that is why I am writing this.
I am sick and tired of the left spreading lies as truth and than not being called on the carpet for doing so so remember the warning in Isaiah “Woe to those who call bad good, and good bad.”  God will not continue to be mocked by you and those who say there is no God they can’t even answer the question of where life came from they start with a big explosion in space ah but where did space come from and what caused an explosion and how did it make life.  I have seen many explosions in my day having worked construction but have never seen an explosion
automatically start creation without a designer so
you can argue evilution is the way just as the Nazi’s and Comunist did and see what they caused suffering 100 times worse than the Unchristian Popes and the unChristian Kings and the Mullah’s through 30 AD till 1900 AD. 100,000,000 Christians have been murdered since 1901 and this doesn’t even count civilians and soldiers killed in wars around the world so stop putting your blame on Goid and blame the real culprits Man, Hatred, greed, perverssion, Evolutionary theory putting man on the same level as animals, Do Animals try to stop murders no they act as a pack, do animals try to save the most helpless No infact they kill them themselvse so
congradulations 100 years of teaching evilution has now placed us on the sublevel of animals acting without remorse on our baser instincts rather than Life being sacred it is now bought and sold around the world on a scale 20 times worse than before the American Civil War so stick that in your pipe and smoke it Man has fallen a long way down since we stopped teaching morality and the Idea that God or even gods exist.
          Treithoverlies,
          John R Bloxson Jr.

RdV,

You are actually admitting that you have never seen, or taken the time to learn, the other side of this equation.

As far as I can tell Israel’s side of the debate on who broke the truce has been been in every major newspaper and television news program in the West. No need to wait on me, RDV. I am already well aware that both sides have made their positions known.

Ed Harges writes: “Fine then, Pfaff - if they’re both equally to blame, why the hell is the US fervently committed to just one side?”

The answer is: The Palestinians cannot afford the weapons America is selling to the Israelis. 

Every time an Israeli soldier shoots a 12-year-old Palestinian boy throwing a rock, someone in Congress is making money off those bullets.  That’s what it boils down to.  They don’t want to stop the war on Hamas because they are all just too busy laughing all the way to the bank(s).

Illogical, or course, unless one’s a politician bent on taking power, or keeping it. 

Hamas, the Israeli hard-right?  Military might is, mysteriously, equated with power.  The more you flex it, the more powerful you appear to be and the more likely you’ll get or retain the seats of power.

(Are there any fools left who are yet to understand that without the invasion of Iraq, George would have been a one-term president?)

rom By Purple Girl, January 14 at 5:13 am:

“Please soemone tell me ONE thing Israel has ever Done for US”

I too would like to see an answer to this question. I can think of dozens of examples of how Israel has been a proven and strident friend to the United States. Several that come to mind have actually saved hundreds of American lives. And others that have prevented dozens of attacks against American Embassies and interests around the world.

I find it troubling that this question has to be asked on this type of Web Site.

Why so much hatred and bigotry on this site? I thought this was a “progressive” Web Site.

I would be very interested to see what would happen if the Palestinians would do as Tom Clancy suggested in The Sum of all Fears: Use non-violent resistance a la Ghandi amd MLK to make their point. I realize it goes against their cultural ethos, but it would play out much better on the world stage, resulting in a lot of pressure on Israel. It’s hard to claim you’re the good guy if the terrorists aren’t shooting at you. Imagine Hamas fighters sitting peacefully in the road singing “We Shall Overcome”!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KntmpoRXFX4

You didn’t ask for them—and meanwhile I am still waiting…

RdV,

You are actually admitting that you have never seen the other side of this equation? You have no information contrary to your own opinions? I find that to be extremly sad.

You demand links from me after supplying none yourself. Interesting.

“There are many sources who claim Israel was the first to break the truce. There are an equal number claiming it was Hamas.”

Links please.
Silly fool.

1 of 2

brewerstroupe,

On Pfaff’s (work?) here:

•  “When you fight a dirty war, it has to be over before the serious journalism kicks in.”

EXACTLY!!

This is even better:

•  “My grandmother is more capable of analysis than this writer and she has been dead for forty years.”

I had to chuckle, (and there’s a possibility that your grandmother did too). Meantime, I’d say your own analysis is the reality. Perhaps because I agree overwhelmingly with what is logic and reason.

•  “Israel, acting for political motives, has made a serious tactical blunder here…In the first place, what did Hamas have to lose? Israel had its boot on their neck and the oxygen, not to mention food and essential supplies, was running out. Right now Hamas has Israel enmeshed in a quagmire that looks like extending long after the date they intended to withdraw - in time for the elections. Pfaff simply doesn’t understand the Palestinians because he thinks like an Israeli and they haven’t got it right since Herzl was in short pants…”

Herzl in short pants aside, (what a hoot) this is exactly what sane people have been pointing out for decades. Just what MORE did Hamas and more specifically the civilians of Gaza have to lose? Or the civilians of the West Bank for that matter? Or the population of ANY space on the globe being held in eternal and barbaric captivity? Nothing!!

I fell off my chair when Pfaff made the claim that Hamas had broken the so-called ‘truce’. How the hell does that multiple month BLOCKADE of all basic survival supplies fit in with a ‘truce’? Oh yeah; The ‘truce’ is Hamas won’t fire little rockets into Israel and Israel will continue to starve the Palestinian population until they’re all dead. Animals in the wild have more access to survival resources than the Palestinians do, including and most basically, food and water.

Meantime, the mention of Hillary Clinton only serves as a reminder of the dread that I experienced as soon as Obama nominated her to this of all positions. She was ISRAEL’S choice for US president, as noted in a poll taken and published in Haartz about 8 or 9 months before the US elections. So in a measure of psychological ‘avoidance’ perhaps, I’ve delayed panicking about her by hoping that she will be held in the appropriate check and forced to accommodate Obama’s agenda, and not her own or Israel’s. I was NOT aware, (prior to your mention of it here) that Hillary had voted AGAINST the ban on cluster bombs. No, that does NOT bode well for anything that Hillary Clinton has to contribute.
I’ve not yet read the article posted here with the title that suggests Hillary is now willing to ‘think smarter’ in terms of foreign policy in the Middle East. It “sounds” good, (and traditionally Obama-style linguistics) but coming from Hillary the Hawk, it’s hypocritically rhetorical.

What I’m picking up here is the continued determination to “Target Iran” and to conflate the 40 year old struggle for self-determination by the Palestinians to the equally long-standing fight between Israel and the rest of the Middle East, with Iran as Israel’s remaining nemesis.

2 of 2
It’s been equally obvious for decades, that Israel is determined to be the ONLY nuclear power in the region, and that they will annihilate the entire region including themselves, to keep it that way.

Obama seems to buy into the position that Iran is secretly pursuing the development of a nuclear WEAPON, which may in fact be true. If so, they’re pretty damn successful at the secret part of it, because the IAEA has not been able to find a speck of evidence to confirm that, and it hasn’t been for lack of trying. Regardless, even if Iran WAS pursuing a nuclear weapon, how exactly is Obama going to diplomatically talk them down on that, without addressing that ARSENAL of nukes that Israel has been sitting on for over 30 years? If he (Obama) is genuinely concerned about the possibility of a nuclear arms race developing in the region, all he has to do is get Israel to DISarm. Nobody else in the neighborhood has them, so THAT would be ‘thinking smarter.’

That’s not to ignore India and Pakistan, since they aren’t far away, but if it’s the Greater Middle East we’re concerned about, little tiny Israel is the only one with all of the nuclear fire power and the most sophisticated delivery system in the world inventory of WMD. They’re also the craziest and most fanatical in the region as well, and so the most likely to use them.
So even if Iran actually is pursuing a nuclear weapon, it would only be the result of Israel’s determination to be the Middle East heavyweight bully, keeping the entire region under the same “boot heel at the neck” condition to which the Palestinians are subjected, with the only nukes in their possession to back it up.

How is it that the whole world can be held hostage by one tiny (but grossly psychotic) fraction of the population? We need the equivalent of a psychiatric swat team to deal with Israel, so the rest of the world can get on with our collective survival.

RdV,

There are many sources who claim Israel was the first to break the truce. There are an equal number claiming it was Hamas.

It is impossible for you, or anyone else simply reading from, or listening to, the news media, or the many communiqués from either side, to “know” which is true.

Why would you critisize others for doing what you are apparently doing? It is clear from your writing that you “feel” you believe one side over the other. But, if you were to be honest, you actually don’t know who was the first to break the truce.

Keep an open mind.

from By Purple Girl, January 14 at 5:13 am:

“Please soemone tell me ONE thing Israel has ever Done for US, except make US another target for their enemies?”

Very good question, PG.

The Danger of Reprisal Attacks Abroad Pt. 1

Police reported that an incendiary device was thrown at a synagogue in Paris on Jan. 11. This type of attack against Jews or Jewish interests has become common in Western Europe since Israel launched Operation Cast Lead in Gaza on Dec. 27, 2008. As the operation continues, the likelihood for more attacks remains. And looking at the targets so far, attacks are not limited to purely Jewish interests.

Paris police reported Jan. 12 that attackers overnight had thrown nine incendiary devices at a synagogue in the suburb of Saint-Denis, breaking a window of the temple and causing a fire at a kosher restaurant next door. This kind of attack has become quite prevalent since Israel began its Operation Cast Lead offensive in Gaza on Dec. 27, 2008. The attacks thus far have been fairly amateurish in terms of tradecraft, however: although they have involved lethal tactics such as arson, physical violence and handguns, none has resulted in any deaths.
At least 11 such incidents have been reported since the Gaza operation began:

·  Dec. 29: Chicago - An incendiary device is thrown at a Jewish temple.
·  Dec. 31: Odense, Denmark - Two Israelis are shot and wounded in a shopping mall.
·  Jan. 3-4: Antwerp, Belgium - Demonstrations result in anti-Israeli protesters stuffing burning rags through mail slots in Jewish homes.
·  Jan. 3: London - Assailants carry out an arson attack against a synagogue.
·  Jan. 5: Helsingborg, Sweden - An assailant breaks a window of a Jewish temple and drops in an incendiary device.
·  Jan. 5: Brussels, Belgium - An incendiary device is thrown at a synagogue.
·  Jan. 5: Paris - Assailants ram a burning car into the gates of a synagogue. Investigators find incendiary devices inside the car and in the yard.
·  Jan. 7: London - A Jewish man is pulled from his car and assaulted by three men.
·  Jan. 7: Paris - A young Jewish girl is assaulted by 10 youths outside her school.
·  Jan. 8: Montreal - Pro-Palestinian demonstrators storm the lobby of the Israeli consulate.
·  Jan. 11: Paris - An incendiary device damages a synagogue and kosher restaurant.
The above list is by no means exhaustive. Security sources explain that hundreds more attacks like these are occurring (especially in the United States) but are not being reported. These include: vandalism and public demonstrations involving anti-Semitic slogans; attempts to storm U.S., Israeli and Egyptian diplomatic missions; cyberattacks against Israeli Web sites; protests resulting in property damage to Western multinational corporations such as McDonald’s, Starbucks and KFC, and calls to boycott these businesses; and calls to boycott Jewish-owned businesses in Rome. The targeting of Western multinationals is interesting because these companies have no direct links to Israel, but instead are seen as Western symbols in many countries. The inclusion of these companies in the target set means that any high-profile Western multinational could be threatened — not just those mentioned above.

In addition to these attacks, sources have told sources that radical Muslims have been conducting surveillance on Jewish individuals. A list of the United Kingdom’s 100 most prominent Jews showed up on a radical Muslim Web site along with discussions about targeting them in reprisal attacks for the Israeli operations in Gaza; Reliable sources advise, however, that there is also a significant threat against less-prominent Jews such as Jewish community center leaders in the United States and Canada. These people are less likely to have the same level of personal protection as the “most prominent” Jews and, with a little research and surveillance, would be much easier to target. Many cities around the world have well-known Jewish neighborhoods, which makes targeting Jewish individuals and businesses a relatively simple procedure.

“Hamas in Gaza will have its victory, according to the official account, despite having broken the truce that had prevailed in the months leading up to this crisis…Even if it were true, as widely claimed, that it was the Israelis who for their own reasons deliberately first broke the truce…”

  Actually, Israel did break the truth first and that FACT has been well documented—despite those who can’t quite bring themselves to admit the stain on their own tribe..
And therein lies the problem with so many of these opinion pieces—they are still subject to manufactured spin as the conventional truth and the reader is increasingly becoming more sophisticated—and ambitious to spread the truth through alternative means.
  Increasingly the MSM are yesterday’s news, especially those—who maybe decent and fairminded on most issues, but whose vision is clouded by tribal allegiance and lifelong indoctrination of Israel as God’s country and above approach.
What exactly do you expect Hamas to do?—meekly succumb like the Jews in the camps did?
Now Lebannon is lobbing missiles—and Israel, intent on pounding his “iron fist” is loathed by the world.
  What do they care? They only care about themselves.

The Danger of Reprisal Pt. 2

Even the less-violent actions described above can easily turn violent. Many anti-Israeli demonstrations that have started out peaceful have degenerated into violence, as high emotions can turn a group of protesters into a mob fairly quickly. Radical elements can also find cover within an otherwise peaceful demonstration and carry out violent actions. This appears to have happened in the arson attacks in Antwerp on Jan. 3-4: some protesters evidently brought along materials needed to commit arson and knew where Jews were living. Protests also got out of hand in Montreal on Jan. 8 when a group of demonstrators attempted to storm the Israeli consulate, and in Karachi, Pakistan, on Jan. 11 when demonstrators attempted to attack the U.S. consulate there.

Despite the rhetoric that has come from Hamas and other Palestinian militants to counter Israel abroad, they have not been directly responsible for any attacks outside of the Levant. Additionally, Lebanese militant movement Hezbollah indeed has an international network, but is only willing to assist Hamas insofar as doing so benefits Hezbollah. The group is willing to supply weapons to Gaza in order to keep the pressure on Israel, but does not appear prepared to confront Israel openly through an attack on Jewish interests abroad on behalf of Hamas. Hamas itself also lacks the ability to carry out a coordinated attack abroad, as its international networks are focused on collecting money to send back to the Palestinian territories. Its international influence is limited to calling for Palestinians and militant Muslims abroad to carry out self-initiated attacks on its behalf (which, for the most part, end up being poorly orchestrated). Even al Qaeda prime — meaning the core al Qaeda node that has had past success in carrying out major attacks abroad — is constrained in its ability to operate internationally, and is far more likely to use the situation in Gaza for rhetorical and ideological purposes. Despite the atmospherics, there is actually very little material support for the Palestinians throughout the Middle East.

That said, although the tactics used by gangs so far have not caused any deaths, they could certainly become lethal in the future. The use of guns, violent physical force and arson are all potentially deadly and, if combined with enough planning and operational skill, could certainly lead to more serious attacks even without the support of the militant groups listed above. Additionally, the threat emanating from lone wolves poses a very high risk — an attack on a Jewish center in Seattle in 2006 that killed one person and injured six was carried out by a Muslim man who was angered by Israel’s strikes against Lebanon that had begun a month earlier.

With protests raging all over the world condemning Israel’s actions in Gaza, the likelihood of violence against Jews, Israeli interests and Western multinationals is heightened, even though the chance of a large-scale attack carried out by a group like Hezbollah, Hamas or al Qaeda prime remains low.

Please soemone tell me ONE thing Israel has ever Done for US, except make US another target for their enemies?
If another attack is made on our soil, at our embassies, towards Our citizens..I won’t be blaming the New Admin.. I’ll be pointing a finger at Israel, the Bush admin, Their Corp War Profiteers and the ‘Religious Right’.
I am beginning to HATE Israel -not their people, Just their Gov’t- same bunch of Bloodthristy warmongers as those we’ve suffered under for decades.
funny how you can be called a Anti semite if you say you hate Israel, yet considered a ‘saint’ if you hate Palestinians…FYI Neither are Americans!And I ONLY Pledged My Allegience to MY Country.
Sociolgically The Middle East is a psychiatric ward, Where the Patients have taken over. And frankly Both sides and their lil’ butt buddies of the Religious Right all have Death wishes, for the rest of Us!
These aren’t people of Faith in the Divine, they are Heretics! Killing over scratches of dirt and brick & Mortar..Sounds like Sacrifical Idol worship to me. I do not give a shit about what happens to the ‘rock’ , The ‘Wall’ or that damned ‘church’, may 3 Lightening bolts destroy all three- a Blesssing to Humanity!

Trithoverlies: Do you really believe that “God” and Jesus will save us from ourselves? Are you on medication? If not, you should be. Yes, I equated religious fanaticism with a mental disease. Fanatics on ALL SIDES are what brought us to this point. When you get right down to it, it is religion that is causing this war. What REAL god would demand murder in his name? God “gave” the jews Israel? Suuure he did. When you fight a war in the name of god, there is no limit to the atrocities you can do; for are you not fighting a righteous war? These people WILL NOT stop killing each other, and I can’t blame them. If they (the jews)truly believe god gave them Israel, they feel obligated to get it back. The Palestinians truly believe the land is theirs because they lived there for centuries. They also believe judaism is evil and the heathen must be brought to allah (by the sword, if needs be). If both sides TRULY believe in their god, they MUST kill the other.  However; I strongly suspect that both sides mainly pay lip service to their religion. They use it to reach their earthly goals. They will not stop killing each other unless the rest of the world MAKES them. We (America) won’t stop them. About half of us are convinced this is all in god’s plan. The religious right here think that the destruction of the “holy land” is a requirement for the return of the messiah. Jesus christ!! America WANTS them to fight. It’s a win-win situation for us. These people will not stop until one side is dead. God bless religion.

I hear echoes of the German encirclement of Leningrad (St. Petersburg) during WW2. If I remember right, the Soviets did not allow its citizens to flee the city, but forced them remain in place. It was a tactic to bring to the attention of the world the brutality of the Wehrmacht. It seems that Hamas is playing the same card the Russians did, and, indeed, the IDF is the beast of the Middle East.

More Pfaff chaff. Vintage verisimilitude of a jackboot-licking Liberal. The neocon Likudniks have passed their terrorist torch to their liberal Likudnik bedfellows and there is “guarded hope”  that the bipartisan charade can continue to deceive the American public into aiding and abetting Israel’s crimes and paying for the large increases in miltary aid to the outlaw Jewish State planned by their new lackeys, Obama & Clinton. Such is the tragic continuity, as the reciprocal destruction of Republicans and Democrats in bipartisan thrall to illegitimate Israel “continues in a bewildering and savage concatenation of decisions that have no rationally achievable purposes.”  Many Palestinians “have observed that the announced purpose of the assault on Gaza is to stop Hamas from firing rockets into Israel. This would seem to have little chance of success, since” Israel has been carrying out assassinations and martial law long before the puny rocket retaliations. And F16’s and attack helicopters “are plentiful” thanks to neocon Republicans like Bush and liberal Democrats like Clinton “and the number of young” Jewish men “determined to fire them has no practical limit”. “In the days following the end of Israeli [terror] operations in Gaza, the first in a new series of” F-16 and Apache helicopter “rockets will be fired at” Palestinians. “This is as certain as anything can be.” Clinton and Obama will see to it! “Such Hamas militants as survive the Israeli attack will be applauded as the victors in parts of the world where” truth and justice “does count for a lot.” (i.e. areas outside of the U.S and Israel). “Hamas in Gaza will have its victory, according to the official account, despite having” endured the starvation of the Israeli blockade “that had prevailed in the months leading up to this crisis”. Resuming air and land rocket attacks on Gaza “was even more stupid and useless—with catastrophic results for Gaza’s people—than what Israel’s leadership has done” with the barbaric economic blockade. “Even if it were true, as widely claimed, that it was the Israelis who for their own reasons deliberately first broke the truce,the Hamas leaders” must still be doubly blamed by stupid liberals for ideological purposes. For according to fork-tongued liberals like Pfaff, it was Hamas who deliberately planned and ordered Israel to carry out “the destruction of their community and the deaths of hundreds, possibly thousands—when the count is made—of their guiltless people”. But according to liberal ‘logic’, the reverse is never true, it was not Israel that is responsible for attacks inside it’s own borders by the legitimate resistance movement - no, Hamas is responsible for that, too. In the liberal worldview, Hamas is to blame for everything - ergo, they must be ‘targeted for killing’. “The people of Gaza are much worse off now, but so are the Israelis”. Israel, after all, had to endure a devastating economic blockade by Gaza and attacks by Hamas F-16’s and attack helicopters. At least,in the convoluted imagination of American liberals where such destruction is always “reciprocal”. The Israeli militants “are what remains of what used to be called” a democratic state—“an unsuccessful one, now driven by failure and the encouragement of” America, “into self-destructive acts”. Palestine gains nothing from this. Only resistance can save them - which is what the Zionazi cowards and their liberal apologists fear most.

The guarded remarks by Hillary Clinton on Tuesday have produced equally guarded hope that there will indeed be change

Hillary Clinton voted against a ban on cluster bombs two weeks before the invasion of Lebanon in 2006. There will be no change.

Even if it were true, as widely claimed, that it was the Israelis who for their own reasons deliberately first broke the truce, the Hamas leaders are doubly stupid for having reacted like automatons to the provocation. Their reaction will have caused the destruction of their community and the deaths of hundreds, possibly thousands—when the count is made—of their guiltless people.

Israel has admitted that Hamas fired no rockets until the attack that killed 6 Hamas tunnelers. This news predates this article. In any case, Israel did not obey an important condition of the truce from day one - the opening of the crossings.

Hamas leaders are doubly stupid for having reacted like automatons to the provocation. Their reaction will have caused the destruction of their community and the deaths of hundreds, possibly thousands—when the count is made—of their guiltless people.

My grandmother is more capable of analysis than this writer and she has been dead for forty years.

Israel, acting for political motives, has made a serious tactical blunder here.
In the first place, what did Hamas have to lose? Israel had its boot on their neck and the oxygen, not to mention food and essential supplies, was running out. Right now Hamas has Israel enmeshed in a quagmire that looks like extending long after the date they intended to withdraw - in time for the elections. Pfaff simply doesn’t understand the Palestinians because he thinks like an Israeli and they haven’t got it right since Herzl was in short pants.
Mishal has said no ceasefire until the crossings are open and he won’t budge. He has got some heavies on his side in the PR department now - no less a personage than Sir Jeremy Greenstock.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_7823000/7823746.stm

Israel cannot go on pretending they’re bombing militants forever. If Hamas keep up the fight, either Israel engages on the ground or withdraws. If the former they better find a wholesale deal on body bags and the election is anybody’s guess. If the latter, they’ve handed Hamas the moral right to keep up the attacks until Israel concedes the crossings and starts treating Gazans as human beings.
Every day this fight goes on increases the gains for Hamas. When you fight a dirty war, it has to be over before the serious journalism kicks in.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article21739.htm

It is already too late for Pfaff.

The last paragraph of the previously submitted post had one missing phrase; therefore it should read as the following:

Though the Palestinians are the aggrieved and victimized party in the current situation, I hope that they could understand that their Jewish cousins-made-enemies are suffering from two psychic complexes: the ancient Masada and the modern Holocaust! And Remembering this might help them reach an accommodation even at the expense of foregoing their own grievances!

With some reservations about certain points in Pfaff’s article, I agree that, in essence, what’s happening is indeed reciprocal self-destruction. And this fact did not escape the racist colonialist powers of Europe that helped create Israel as a colonial post in the area. The idea was to send the unwanted Jews of Europe to a land occupied by another Semitic people, so they can take it over, and naturally they will continue fighting and killing each others indefinitely. And to put this in a larger historical context I want to recall here the story of Masada.

Remember reading about Masada and the Masada complex?! If not, go to the link below and read a concise summary of that historical event of 73 C.E.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Arch...

It seems to me that the Palestinian resistance, though unconsciously, are intent on creating their own modern “Masada” complex, similar, en essence,  to their ancient cousins, yet different in some details.

In the original Masada, the ancient Jewish zealot men killed their own children and women, then the men committed suicide rather than surrendering to the Romans. The number of people who perished in that incident are estimated at one thousand.

In the Palestinian situation, the besieged Palestinians are putting a stiff resistance rather than surrendering to a far superior army with much more superior and deadly weapons, so, en essence, it’s a form of suicide, but less grotesque than the original “Masada” where the men actually slaughtered their own children and women before committing suicide; hence a difference. Another difference is related to the number of victims among the besieged Palestinians and the level of infrastructure destruction after this modern siege is over.

However, the ultimate outcome would be the same. The Palestinians will develop their own “Gaza Complex”, parallel to the ancient “Masada Complex”  which will be built in the psychic of the survivors for generations to come, and only an Omni-Scientist God will know its long term tragic consequences.

How tragic that history repeats itself and recalcitrant human beings continue to fail learning its lessons!

Though the Palestinians are the aggrieved and victimized party in the current situation, I hope that their Jewish cousins-made-enemies are suffering from two psychic complexes: the ancient Masada and the modern Holocaust! Remembering this might help them reach an accommodation even at the expense of foregoing their own grievances!

By Folktruther, January 13 at 8:23 pm

I will NEVER suck up to izrael. They are as big a terrorist group as anyone. I don’t know who this Trithoverlies is(definitely in cahoots with ‘thnkubush’ if not one and the same) but at the least he/she is a proponent of the job at hand by izrael to totally extinct a population of a territory because of paranoia. I am increasingly becoming less supportive of the state of izrael’s right to existance unless they are left totally alone. They should have godamn well thought of that 2000 years ago when that claimed that ‘god(dog spelled backwards)’ gave them that land. As a matter of fact, it bolsters my conclusion that there is NO god as ANY organized religion proclaims there to be.
Quite frankly, my whole position is that there are far too many people on this planet thus the sorry conditions of the present all around the world and for me, losing 9/10 of the population of the planet would be the best course to bring back stability of sorts. Pretty tough, huh? If humans won’t deal with this then nature will, I just hope the at the state of izrael ceases to exist, they make me hostile by taking away the spiritual being I love from reading about the indigenous peoples of many lands that did not have to cope with modern religion and technology.

To all Concerned Liberals.

The truth is that Hamas may have a political wing and a terrorist wing but the fact show that Hamas has never recognized Israels right to exist and want. We must see the truth that stares us in the face the radical hatred of Hamas, Hezbuloh, Al-quida, the wahabi sect and the radical shiite will never accept Israel and that is the sad truth.  This conflict will only worsen until Messiah comes when their will be peace.  the Shiites are planning their moves against the Jews and with their allies from northern Africa, Turkey, Syria, Suadi Arabia, Lebenon, and the Russians it will bring the world to the brink of the third World War but God will intervien to destroy most of Israels enemies and bring a call for peace world wide a young European of Roman descent will promise just such a peace and the world will grasp for it only latter will the real cost be revealed and then 1/4th of the worlds population will die due to the War, Economic colapse, Famine,
and desease, some will be killed by a great earthquake others will be martyred for their faith. Martyrdom of people of the way will not be anything like what the Radical Islam calls martyrdom which would more apropriatly called murderdom. All this must happen before a true peace can ever be made our sinfulness lust for power, and teaching hatred over love and turning love into a four letter derogatory word has lead mankind to this period of slaughter to come we have brought all this down on ourselves it not Pres. Bush’s fault it is a world that revolves on power greed curruption, and self love that will finally bring the world to its knees.
  “Shalom, Shalom! sha’alu Shalom, Yerushalayim-
    Pray for the peace of Jarusalem.”
        Yachonin.

To all Concerned Liberals.

The truth is that Hamas may have a political wing and a terrorist wing but the fact show that Hamas has never recognized Israels right to exist and want. We must see the truth that stares us in the face the radical hatred of Hamas, Hezbuloh, Al-quida, the wahabi sect and the radical shiite will never accept Israel and that is the sad truth.  This conflict will only worsen until Messiah comes when their will be peace.  the Shiites are planning their moves against the Jews and with their allies from northern Africa, Turkey, Syria, Suadi Arabia, Lebenon, and the Russians it will bring the world to the brink of the third World War but God will intervien to destroy most of Israels enemies and bring a call for peace world wide a young European of Roman descent will promise just such a peace and the world will grasp for it only latter will the real cost be revealed and then 1/4th of the worlds population will die due to the War, Economic colapse, Famine,
and desease, some will be killed by a great earthquake others will be martyred for their faith. Martyrdom of people of the way will not be anything like what the Radical Islam calls martyrdom which would more apropriatly called murderdom. All this must happen before a true peace can ever be made our sinfulness lust for power, and teaching hatred over love and turning love into a four letter derogatory word has lead mankind to this period of slaughter to come we have brought all this down on ourselves it not Pres. Bush’s fault it is a world that revolves on power greed curruption, and self love that will finally bring the world to its knees.
  “Shalom, Shalom! sha’alu Shalom, Yerushalayim-
    Pray for the peace of Jarusalem.”
        Yachonin.

Brewer Stroupe—this miserable piece sucking up to Israel is not typical of Pfaff’s columns in TD.  Most of them are better.  I suppose that there is a lot of Zionist pressure on him since he makes his living in the Zionist mainstream media.  Granted, its disgusting.

This is pure insanity. Now the jews here in america have now created our politican cheerleaders in their drive to kill every palastinan in gaza. The izraelis and a lot of the jews that are part of the state of izrael have made the whole of the america look like a bunch bums and crumbs. I wouldn’t know how much lower that america can go than placating the izraelis and the jews in their push to wipe out a whole population of a territory and laugh and sing about it. This has become another low point for this country and really brings the true nature of the izraelis and a lot of jews to light, they are the reincarnate of the german nazis from whom they have learned so well how to kill with with pleasure a whole population, something not seen since the white man came over to the new world and tried to wipe out the native american people, stooping so low as to give the indians as apparent friends blankets that had been infected with the small pox contagion. And when izrael is finished with ‘cleansing’ gaza, where are they gong to turn?
Here is the link to show how fucked up our politicans have become and maybe may make you wonder how and why do we keep re-electing this trash. If this link does not work, the post is from ALTERNET.ORG titled Pro-Izrael Rally Attended by Big-Time NY Dems…

http://www.alternet.org/story/119372/pro-israel_rally_attended_by_big-time_ny_dems_descends_into_calls_for_’wiping_out’_palestinians/

I have several friends that are jewish and I hope they are not supportive of this kind of shit and would not stoop as low as the people in the video. And the people in this video make me want to throw up as much as w did in his farewell press conference yesterday.
And I am seeing obama NOT making noises that he should to stop this crap. I am really beginning to dread what the next 4 years will be like.

London Guardian newspaper article about Israeli war crimes.  Click on http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/13/gaza-israel-war-crimes

Get the facts Straight

eileen fleming, January 13 at 5:54 pm at wrote

“Hamas has its military wing – though nothing compared to the Israeli army – but it is essentially a grassroots religious-political movement that democratically won the Palestinian elections in 2006 and earned the right to establish a government – which was denied it by Israel, the US…and the Fatah part of the Palestinian Authority

————————————————————————

First off calling the PA elections of 2006 democratic
is questionable at best BECAUSE in true democracies political parties do not show up on the campaign trail with AK-47 and RPG’s

just because the ballot boxes were not “stuffed” does not mean a free and fair democratic election for if it did it would be possible for example for David Duke the win the presidency of the NAACP

Second
Elieen also wrote

“It does deny Israel’s legitimacy, as any colonized people would, and there is no reason why it should accept the loss of 78% (or more) of its historic homeland.

A question ? how much in % please loss should Israel accept of its historic homeland.

In 2000 Barak then the Priminister of Israel offered the PA 97% of the so called west bank and 100% of gaza with the addition of land from the Negav to compensate them for the 3% of the west bank. The PA refused and started the second intifada.

Thrid Hamas never stated that would accept an agreement with Israel ,they said as late as last week they would only agree to a long term truce ( for a maximum of 20 years) with Israel if Israel gave the PA 100% of it demands ( 100% of Gaza and the “west bank” and Jerusalam)

After the truce they would restate the resistance.

So for Israel to live in peace it must crush Hamas,
this is sad but never-the-less true.

We should remove the word “terrorist” from our repertoire…

What did Hillary say that “provided hope”? She sounded like quite the hawk,to me, which is not surprising in the DLC

PatrickHenry—good point!
Guaranteed to fail, Pfaff—yes, that is precisely the point. “freedom and democracy”, “free the people” “bombs for peace’—

Its a tune that we, the uS, know well!

Stockholm syndrome?

Hunter Thompson mustve been high—lol. Yeah, when wasnt he? I loved him, but, what would he say about BUSH?! Bush’s war crimes make Nixon look tame..I wish he was still around (Hunter, not Nixon!)

P.T.—do you know where I could find the oriaginal story on this? Would be very interestsed…any chance that they will charge Bush et al, for supplying them with weapons?

ONLY Justice will save the two of them and Justice requires an END to the Occupation, Equal Human Rights for All, the upholding of International Law and an HONEST Third Broker for Peace.

“Presenting Hamas as merely a “terrorist organization” removes the political element from their struggle and presents them as a criminal organization. This not only distorts reality in a fundamental way but, by preventing negotiations, it ensures the perpetuation of mutual suffering.

“Hamas has its military wing – though nothing compared to the Israeli army – but it is essentially a grassroots religious-political movement that democratically won the Palestinian elections in 2006 and earned the right to establish a government – which was denied it by Israel, the US…and the Fatah part of the Palestinian Authority.

“It does deny Israel’s legitimacy, as any colonized people would, and there is no reason why it should accept the loss of 78% (or more) of its historic homeland. But Hamas has agreed, as a signatory to the “Prisoners’ Document” and in repeated public pronouncements, to respect the outcome of negotiations of other Palestinian parties (like Fatah) with Israel, if they result in a complete withdrawal from the Occupied Territories. So despite its militant and scary image, despite the fact that it will not legitimize what it considers another people’s colonization of its homeland, Hamas does accept, as a practical political matter, a two-state solution.

“Given the fact that negotiations with Israel since the Madrid Conference of 1991 have yielded nothing – indeed, Israel’s massive settlement enterprise has perhaps eliminated the possibility of a viable Palestinian state alongside Israel – Hamas’s resort to armed resistance is understandable.

“All attacks on civilians are prohibited in international law. In this regard both Hamas and Israel engage in terrorism, with the later taking by far the greatest of civilian dead, injured and traumatized.”-
http://www.wearewideawake.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1162&Itemid=214

The London Guardian newspaper (Jan. 13, 2009) says these are what international organizations that deal with such matters are charging Israel with:

• Using powerful shells in civilian areas which the army knew would cause large numbers of innocent casualties;

• Using banned weapons such as phosphorus bombs;

• Holding Palestinian families as human shields;

• Attacking medical facilities, including the killing of 12 ambulance men in marked vehicles;

• Killing large numbers of police who had no military role.

Critics remain sceptical that any inquiry will take place, given that Israel has previously blocked similar attempts with the backing of the US.

Nazi Germany and the Jews in the Death Camps: The Drama of Reciprocal Self-Destruction

Israel and Palestine: The Drama of Reciprocal Self-Destruction - another Truthdig title equivocating on genocide.

Since when do you take a purely objective view of genocide?

Since when do you give as much equal time to the Nazis as to their victims.

Hunter Thompson on Nixon and when to stop being objective, and start being subjective.

“Some people will say that words like scum and rotten are wrong for Objective Journalism—which is true, but they miss the point. It was the built-in blind spots of the Objective rules and dogma that allowed Nixon to slither into the White House in the first place. He looked so good on paper that you could almost vote for him sight unseen. He seemed so all-American, so much like Horatio Alger, that he was able to slip through the cracks of Objective Journalism. You had to get Subjective to see Nixon clearly, and the shock of recognition was often painful.”

http://www.counterpunch.org/thompson02212005.html

Substitute Neocon for Nixon and his words are as valid today as when written -

” (The badger (Nixon)) is a beast that fights best on its back: rolling under the throat of the enemy and seizing it by thehead with all four claws.

That was Nixon’s style—and if you forgot, he would kill you as a lesson to the others. Badgers don’t fight fair, bubba. That’s why God made dachshunds.”

Pfaff writes:

“The people of Gaza and Israel suffer at the hands of leaders whose bewildering and savage decisions have no rationally achievable purpose.”

Fine then, Pfaff - if they’re both equally to blame, why the hell is the US fervently committed to just one side?

At least the Palestinians don’t order us Americans around and force us to take their side. So that alone inclines me very much against Israel and in favor of the Pals.

We need to get out of this Holy War, and tell these Chosen a-holes to go choose themselves, and get their grubby hands off our government and our treasury.