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Why Do So Few Speak Up for Gaza?

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Posted on Jan 6, 2009
Gaza rubble
AP photo / Khaled Omar

Palestinians inspect the rubble of a building in the Rafah refugee camp, southern Gaza Strip, destroyed in Israel’s military onslaught.

By Robert Scheer

Why are we so indifferent to the death and destruction in Gaza?

The major news outlets meekly accepted Israel’s banning of journalists from entering Gaza as an excuse for downplaying collateral civilian casualties, our president-elect, Barack Obama, has had little to say about an invasion that will much complicate his future Mideast peace efforts, and most commentators easily rationalize Israel’s many-more-eyes-for-an-eye killings.

Why is it that there is such widespread acceptance, beginning with the apologetic arguments of President Bush, that whatever Israel does is always justified as necessary to the survival of the Jewish state?

It is not.

While the Hamas rocket attacks are reprehensible, they are also an ineffectual challenge to Israel’s enormous security apparatus, and the severity of Israel’s response to them is counterproductive. Clearly, the very existence of Israel is not now, nor has it ever been, seriously challenged by anything the Palestinians did. Not back in 1948, when Israel was established as a state with insignificant Palestinian military resistance, nor at the time of the 1967 Six-Day War when Egypt, Syria and Jordan fought Israel.

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The Palestinians were in no position to confront the Israeli army, because those whose lands were not already occupied by Israel were living under oppressive Egyptian control in Gaza and tough Jordanian rule in the West Bank. After the speedy Israeli victory, which demolished the myth of the new state’s vulnerability, the Palestinians became imprisoned as a people by Israel for crimes they had not committed.

Even if we accept the harshest portrayal of the tactics and motives of the Palestinian movements against Israel after the Six-Day War, at what point did that terrorism represent a serious challenge to the survival of the Jewish people or the state that claims to speak in their name? Yet that survival is invoked to justify the vastly excessive use of force by the Israeli war machine, with frequent allusions to the Holocaust previously visited upon the Jewish people, a holocaust that had nothing to do with Palestinians or Muslims, and everything to do with Central Europeans claiming to be Christians.

The high moral claim of the Israeli occupation rests not on the objective reality of a Palestinian threat to Israel’s survival, but rather on the non sequitur cry that “never again” should harm come to Jews as it did in Central Europe seven decades ago.

The basic argument is that Palestinian terrorists represented by Hamas are given to an irrational hatred of Jews so profound that it invalidates their movement, even when they win elections. That was not the view of the Israeli security service when it earlier supported Hamas as the alternative to the then dreaded PLO. Also, history is replete with examples of terrorists becoming statesmen, even within the early ranks of Jews fighting to establish the state of Israel.

One of those was Menachem Begin, who went on to be an elected leader of the new state. But before Begin attained that respectability, back in 1948 when he visited the United States, a group of prominent Jewish intellectuals including Albert Einstein, Sidney Hook and Hannah Arendt wrote a letter to The New York Times warning that Begin was a former leader of the “Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine.” The letter urged Jews to shun Begin, arguing, “It is inconceivable that those who oppose fascism throughout the world, if correctly informed as to Mr. Begin’s political record and perspectives, could add their names and support to the movement he represents.”

Begin’s new party was then participating in the Israeli election, and Einstein and his colleagues, many of whom like the physicist had been victims of German fascism, stated, “Today they speak of freedom, democracy and anti-imperialism, whereas until recently they openly preached the doctrine of the Fascist state. It is in its actions that the terrorist party betrays its real character.”

Those actions were then detailed in the letter. They included the systematic terrorizing of innocent Palestinian men, women and children in an effort to force them to flee the territory that Begin’s party claimed for the new state of Israel.

Clearly Begin and his political heirs, who include Benjamin Netanyahu, the most likely victor in the next Israeli election, evolved in their behavior. But I bring it up now to highlight the one-sided reporting of the current phase of this interminable conflict and to wonder: Where are the voices that reflect the uncompromising morality of Einstein’s generation of Jewish intellectuals willing to acknowledge fault and humanity on both sides of the political equation?

Click here to check out Robert Scheer’s book,
“The Great American Stickup: How Reagan Republicans and Clinton Democrats Enriched Wall Street While Mugging Main Street.”


Keep up with Robert Scheer’s latest columns, interviews, tour dates and more at www.truthdig.com/robert_scheer.



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By carol, July 17, 2010 at 7:36 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

israel has been talking pease and making war for more than 60 years. first they setteled on the land where the palestinians lived and drove them into judea and samaria .now israel claims god himself gave this land to the jews.many christian churches preach the jews are gods choosen people and any one doing harm to jews will surely be punished by god.
what god would approve of what israel is doing to the palestinians? the fourth strongest war mashine in the world claims to be threatend by almost defenceless desperate people

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By Inherit The Wind, February 22, 2009 at 7:40 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous, February 21 at 11:11 pm #

Aw ITW you are just too easy.  What’s the matter laddie, would ya be all out of wind now?
*******************************************

No, I’ve just succumbed to “Evil-lution” and evolved! smile

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By Shenonymous, February 22, 2009 at 12:11 am Link to this comment

Aw ITW you are just too easy.  What’s the matter laddie, would ya be all out of wind now?

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By PatrickHenry, February 21, 2009 at 7:16 pm Link to this comment

The Alan Dershowitz defense to Gaza war crimes.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1233050211942&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

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By Inherit The Wind, February 21, 2009 at 3:55 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, February 19 at 9:22 am #

Refusing to die, ITW…we continue our struggle for giving up means giving up being human.

**********************************************

The right to post on Page 6???????????????????????

Go for it!

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By Shenonymous, February 19, 2009 at 10:22 am Link to this comment

Refusing to die, ITW…we continue our struggle for giving up means giving up being human.

Supremacism and its death knoll for free people everywhere.  You will see this post on other forums.

Free people everywhere share the responsibility to challenge supremacism and the denial of free speech around the world. This view, my view, is based on defending the inalienable human rights of free speech, equality, and liberty - which demands a rejection of all supremacism, including Islamic supremacism which has ascended most large in today’s world.  It’s imperialism is a like a creeping illness.  A pernicious infection.  Failure to defy supremacism will not only cost freedoms - it will also cost a people’s identity.  Those who appease and support such supremacism, consciously or not (and it is this latter that is most troubling since there is a blindness at work), will seek to use national influence and power as a weapon against freedom.  This we have encountered repeatedly and recently as happened in other nations though not to the expansionist extent as being conducted by Islamists.  Islamist supremacism, Russian, Israeli, Zimbabwe are most noticeable today, though it has been a historic affliction that included Germany’s Socialist Nazism and even earlier the Napoleonic and Mongolian hordes, and Japan’s attack on China are a few others, and not to leave out the attack on Iraq by the preemptive United States.  Distressingly, this kind of belief has crept into Zionist Israel over decades as well and also must be seen for what it is, but all of it, wherever it emerged must be seen with a detached and unemotional eye in order to be seen for exactly what it is. Outrage against supremacism is not enough.  Voices against it must speak up and loudly enough so that the din of the perpetrators is drowned out and a creeping into the collective consciousness against such fascism begins to grow.

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By Inherit The Wind, February 17, 2009 at 8:27 pm Link to this comment

Doncha just hate threads that refuse to die, even when they’ve slipped back several pages????

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By Robert, February 13, 2009 at 10:04 pm Link to this comment

“Coexistence” and “Mixed Cities”: A Microcosm of Israeli Apartheid

By Isabelle Humphries

“So next time you hear an Israeli politician talking about “peace” or “coexistence,” remember the reality behind the rhetoric, the fancy words about peace designed to distract your eye from the bulldozer, the violence and the six decades and counting of Israeli apartheid.”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The above also applies to the “Israeli/Zionism’s Hasbarah” propagandists on TD:


http://www.wrmea.com/archives/Jan_Feb_2009/0901015.html

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By Shenonymous, February 12, 2009 at 6:45 pm Link to this comment

Other genocide committed by Muslims this time Sudanese.
This conflict, it should be understood, is somewhat separate from the 22-year-long assault that pitted the Muslim Sudanese regime against Christians and Animist in the country’s southern region. The Janjaweed, who now inhabit the Western Sudan, had nothing to do with that genocide. While the Islamic government of the Sudan brokered both killing sprees, and while both sets of killers were Arab Muslims, in the first assault, the weapons and transports were American and Soviet and the victims were non-Muslims. In the more recent iteration of genocide, the militant Muslims were often astride horses and they were murdering their fellow Muslims.

However, more recently, Sudanese victims and international observers recognize that the Janjaweed are no longer the scrappy militias of yore, but rather well-equipped fighting forces that enjoy the overt assistance of the Muslim regime in Khartoum. For example, in testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in June 2004, a field researcher with Human Rights Watch stated that the Sudanese army was openly recruiting horse-owning Arab men, promising them a gun and a monthly salary of $116 in exchange for joining a Janjaweed cohort.

There are also numerous reports from international aid workers who maintain that Janjaweed raids are often preceded by aerial bombardments by the Sudanese Air Force. They confirm that Janjaweed commanders all reside in government garrison towns, and that Janjaweed militiamen wear combat fatigues identical to those of the regular army.

The genocide now, as it was during the waning years of the 20th century, is state-sponsored and it is Islamic. There will be no peace nor political solution so long as Islam exists or so long as Islamic regimes fund terrorism with black crude.

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By Robert, February 12, 2009 at 6:09 pm Link to this comment

Ilan Pappe and the Nakba Deniers

The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine

By JOHN WHITBECK

“For anyone who possesses a strong stomach and an equally strong desire to know the truth, I strongly recommend Israeli historian Ilan Pappe’s new book “The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine”, which makes painstakingly and painfully clear the extent to which the expulsion of the great majority of Palestinians from their homes and homeland between 1947 and 1949 (an expulsion absolutely essential to create a “Jewish state” in a country where, in 1947, the population was still 70% Muslim and Christian and these non-Jews still owned 94% of the land) was meticulously planned, programmed and documented, ruthlessly carried out and, thereafter, efficiently covered up, sanitized, erased from minds and memories and, to the extent necessary, denied. Pappe also makes clear that the cleansing spirit and cleansing practices have continued ever since, with public discussion in Israel of the “demographic threat” posed by those Palestinians still remaining in Palestinian never more openly conducted and with a recent poll showing 68% of Israeli Jews in favor of expelling all Palestinian citizens of Israel.

Unfortunately, this book, published in England (and available from amazon.com), is highly likely to go unreviewed and largely unnoticed in the United States, a country where objective historical truth is much less popular than “revealed truth” and pure fantasy and where the Israel-First Lobby starts with a distinct home-field advantage in pursuing its successful efforts to convince American public opinion that American interests and values are identical to Israeli interests and values and to make American foreign policy and America’s wars indistinguishable from Israeli foreign policy and Israel’s wars.

While most of mankind, being comprised of peoples who have themselves been the victims of colonialism and racism, views racial-supremicist settler-colonial states founded upon the genocide or ethnic cleansing of an indigenous population as an abomination, Americans, exceptionally, are favorably inclined toward such states. The reason is simple. Until very recently, America was itself such a state, and the official Israeli narrative replicates the widely accepted American narrative of brave pioneers bringing civilization and economic advancement to a backward and savage land.”

http://www.counterpunch.org/whitbeck01272007.html

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By PatrickHenry, February 12, 2009 at 5:12 pm Link to this comment

As with South Africa, Israel is meddling in Darfur. 

Instead of supplying them with tractors, water filtration equipment and seeds, they send tanks, weapons and yes, real rockets. 

http://sudanwatch.blogspot.com/2009/02/israeli-owner-of-mv-faina-pays-32m.html

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By Shenonymous, February 12, 2009 at 3:48 pm Link to this comment

Part 1 – Theocratic-based genocide
Quite true, quite true, Darfur is not about Islam, but Islam is about Darfur and is a major motivator of the Janjaweed in what they themselves call a jihad. 

http://www.africanholocaust.net/news_ah/darfur report.html

The Janjaweed (variously spelled Janjawid, Jingaweit, Jinjaweed, Janjawiid, Janjiwid, etc.) the successor to an earlier Arab tribal militia, the nomads, Murahilin that has a many year history and is an armed militia group in Darfur, western Sudan, formed of fighters with Muslim Arab Baggara background. The story of the Janjaweed is the story of the Sudan, and of the state-sponsored Islamic terrorists operating there. It is the story of the Darfur region. It has been one of the principal forces in the increasingly bloody Darfur conflict, which since 2003 has pitted Arabs against the black African population, who are also Muslims of the region. Its name janjaweed is translated as “a man with a horse and a gun,” however it has been more appropriately translated as “armed men on horseback.”

The Janjaweed was formed in response to attacks on government installations by the two rebel movements. Although both sides have been accused of serious human rights violations, the Janjaweed soon gained the upper hand through being better armed, more mobile and being supported by government forces. The Janjaweed has pursued a systematic policy of ethnic cleansing throughout Darfur, incinerating entire non-Arab villages and driving out or killing their inhabitants. By February of 2007 an estimated 200,000 people had been butchered and another 2.5 million, mostly black Africans, had been forced out of their homes.  Makes one wonder if Allah was out to lunch for one group that worshipped the god and in to a free lunch with the other. 

The Janjaweed became much more aggressive in 2003, after two non-Arab and non-Muslim groups, the Sudan Liberation Army and the Justice and Equality Movement, took up arms against the Islamic Sudanese regime as a result of decades of mistreatment. In response to the armed uprising, the Sudanese government deployed Janjaweed militias to pillaging towns and villages inhabited by members of the African tribes from which the rebel armies draw their strength.

Most of the slaughter and destruction in Sudan has been attributed to the Janjaweed.  These Janjaweed militiamen are all Arab Muslims. In the killing zone, the term “Janjaweed” was synonymous with bandit, as these horse- or camel-borne fighters were known to swoop in on non-Arab farms and steal livestock. It was a return to the mindset of 7th century in central Arabia. There and then, Muslims under Muhammad’s command were Janjaweed, stealing camels and sheep from neighboring villages, killing the men, raping the women, and enslaving the children.

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By Shenonymous, February 12, 2009 at 3:47 pm Link to this comment

Part 2 Theocratic-based genocide
Aggression against Chad and so forth…
The militia has pursued fleeing refugees into neighboring Chad, whose army has fought a number of actions against Janjaweed invasions.  President Idriss Déby of Chad said that “since the start of this war, some 300 Chadian civilians have been killed, 200,000 Chadians made refugees, and thousands of head of cattle stolen by armed men who crossed over from Darfur.”  In 2007 the UNHCR issued the most severe warning that violence in Chad could become the kind of genocide that was committed in Rwanda in 1994.

Idris Abu Moussa, a 26-year-old Sudanese farmer, states: “They came at 4 a.m. on horseback, on camels, in vehicles, with two helicopters overhead ...“they killed 50 people in my village. My father, grandmother, uncle and two brothers were all killed.”...“They don’t want any blacks left.” - from the Darfur Genocide website. The International Crisis Group said that money paid to the Janjaweed “came directly from booty captured in raids on villages,” giving them an additional incentive to act with extreme brutality.

It has been suggested that the Sudanese government has been reluctant to rein in the militia, as it has been an effective opponent of the rebel Justice and Equality Movement (JEM) and the Sudanese Liberation Army (SLA). The government has strongly disputed these claims. On June 19 2004 President Omar al-Bashir issued a decree ordering the disarmament of all militias in Darfur, and instructing government forces “to control and pursue all outlaw groups, including rebels and Janjaweed.”  Of course, this decree was ignored, one wonders why?
http://www.hrw.org/legacy/english/docs/2005/03/02/darfur10225_txt.htm

Having made a bad situation worse, in September 2004 the then UN Secretary General Kofi Annan called for broader backing for peacekeeping efforts in Darfur in his address to the world body’s General Assembly.  “Let no one imagine that this affair concerns Africans alone,” he said. “The victims are human beings, whose human rights must be sacred to all of us. We all have a duty to do whatever we can to rescue them, and do it now.” While what he said was right, it’s what he didn’t say that made it wrong. Until the world comes to acknowledge Islam’s culpability, the terror will continue unabated. And until the West understands that Islam is the problem, the reason for the suffering, Western intervention will cause more harm than good - just as it has done in Iraq.

As always, war while it can be motivated in part by religious interpretation, is about wealth, resources, territory, and most of all the power those things guarantee.  The reason for the militia’s assault, and their state sponsorship, was veiled in the article’s third sentence: “The UN is threatening to impose sanctions on Sudan’s oil industry, unless it stops the violence in Darfur.”

Fear or apathy prevents people from speaking out on the ugliest human inhuman behavior toward other humans.  Either way, it is an obligation for those who care about the world to find out the entire story why.

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By Robert, February 12, 2009 at 3:03 pm Link to this comment

Israel’s Crimes

By Grit TV

Retired US army colonel Ann Wright talks about her recent trip to Gaza. Throughout Israel’s intensive war in Gaza, reporters and international observers have been barred from entering the region. Wright says that the damage is extensive and Israel’s disproportionate response “criminal.” During her visit to Egypt and Gaza, Philip Rizk, a 26 year old student of Middle Eastern Studies at the American University in Cairo was detained after participating in a rally in support of Gazans. Rizk has been an outspoken critic of the Israeli invasion and of the Egyptian government’s feeble response to the suffering of Palestinian civilians. His whereabouts remain unknown and no formal charges have been issued. A demonstration in support of his release will take place on Wednesday, February 11 at 11:30 in front of the Egyptian Consulate in New York.

Wright and Code Pink are also planning fundraising events to aid women’s groups in Gaza for International Women’s Day. You can find out more here.

Posted February 11, 2009


http://informationclearinghouse.info/article21968.htm

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By cyrena, February 12, 2009 at 9:15 am Link to this comment

Sorry again Shenonymous,

Darfur isn’t about Islam anymore than Rwanda was.

And, the faulty cause and effect that you insist on, is a large part of the reason why the Genocide Convention has been mostly ineffective since it’s inception.

Those who choose to characterize Genocides and Ethnic Cleansing operations for what they are,(which really isn’t so difficult to break down at all…a tad bit of reading minus all of the hocus pocus transference) know the mindset behind them has nothing to do with Islam.

My academic advisers (all Jews by the way and considerably more knowledgeable than you will ever be in this respect) have long ago cited the Palestinian conflict as a Genocide, because that’s what it is. If ethnic cleansing and/or Apartheid make you more comfortable that’s fine, but it doesn’t change the results, and it doesn’t change the crime.

It is what it is, and it’s actually a textbook case.

Maybe you should have a look at the Bosnian Genocide, and see if you can tell us how THAT was about Islam as well. (Hint, the victims did happen to be ethnic Muslims, but please don’t let that through you off.)

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By Shenonymous, February 12, 2009 at 5:39 am Link to this comment

The Problem that is Darfur is one of the worst of humanity’s experiences in modern time.  It is a shameful waste of human flesh, hearts and minds.  That the world has allowed one more time the most real genocide for so long and at all is immoral, contemptible and disgraceful. 

I keep reading the argument is that Islam has nothing to do with the “struggle” of the terrorist action in the Middle East, with the implication of elsewhere around the world.  The problem is that the ideology that drives the violence is inextricably mixed with Islamist doctrine and the members of politics and the religion are theocratic and fundamentalist.  The Muslim Brotherhood, which is the oldest and largest Islamic fundamentalist organization today was founded in 1928 in Egypt.  The ideologic writings of that Brotherhood is unendingly quoted by al Qaeda.  Hamas is an offshoot of the Brotherhood.  The efforts of the terrorist organizations, counter to the denials of those who sympathize, is jihad, the path of Allah.  Their efforts regardless of the political character is not only grounded in Islamic theology, it is the underlying motivation.  Violence and fascist ideology is the root cause of what is essentially seen as a “struggle between Islam (seen as The Truth) and non-Islam (The Lie) that transcends all time.”  Frequently embittered, disillusioned people are kept in ferment by their leaders who have a personal agenda of acquiring more power, more territory, more resources and more wealth and even more often for their own treasury.  The people are kept in substandard backward living conditions and kept thinking Allah is calling them to action.  A broad education is kept to a minimum and only for the upper classes mainly because a liberal education is dangerous spawning questions.  Questioning the authorities is tantamount to treason and have lead to executions hence independent thinking is discouraged.  The notion of freedom of speech is seen as a ‘foreign’ and antipathetic to the ruling class. 

What has been happening in Darfur is completely unlike what is claimed to have been happening in Gaza.  The problem in Gaza is that genocide being used as descriptive is debatable regardless of those who decidedly characterize it that way.  There is no doubt in the least that is what is going on in Darfur.  The aspect of Islam in both cases however cannot be completely disentangled.  In Darfur, the aggressors are without question driven by their jihadist beliefs.  In Gaza, with their murder and assaults, the terrorists gain their furor with the ideology that is cemented with Islamist motivation. 

Accusing those who do not hold the same beliefs as “beyond hope” is the same kind of language that prevents any resolution.  It is an entrenched view that is unyielding to any degree and no compromise between those who disagree is possible.  Nothing changes, more of the same.

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By cyrena, February 11, 2009 at 8:31 pm Link to this comment

Speaking of International Law, (specifically genocide) and the real politick of geopolitics.

~~
WEDNESDAY 11 FEBRUARY 2009


Sudan Retains Clout While Charges Loom
Monday 09 February 2009

by: Colum Lynch, The Washington Post

  “As global court weighs Darfur case, leaders continue to engage Bashir.

  United Nations - In the coming weeks, judges from the International Criminal Court will decide whether to issue a warrant for the arrest of Sudan’s President Omar Hassan al-Bashir on charges of genocide and other war crimes in a military campaign that has led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians in Darfur since 2003. But Bashir’s government is hardly being treated like an international pariah.”

(Gee, wonder why?)

  “African Union leaders last week backed Sudan’s appeal to have the warrant suspended, with some portraying the court as unfairly targeting African states. U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki-moon met with Bashir in Ethiopia last week and sought his assurances that international peacekeepers and aid workers would not be attacked if charges were filed.

  Even the Obama administration, which has vowed to increase pressure on Khartoum to stem the bloodshed in Darfur, has reached out to Sudan. Susan E. Rice, the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, invited Sudan’s U.N. ambassador, Abdalmahmood Abdalhaleem Mohamad, on Wednesday to a reception for senior African diplomats at her official residence at the Waldorf-Astoria. She also has scheduled a meeting with the Sudanese envoy this week.

  Indeed, Sudan’s diplomatic standing has hardly been diminished by the allegations. Last month, an influential bloc of developing nations known as the Group of 77 and China selected Sudan as its chairman for 2009. That post will make Khartoum the developing world’s champion in negotiations with the West on a broad variety of issues, including climate change, the U.N. budget and the global financial crisis.

  Sudan’s U.N. envoy said that both the United States and the United Nations realize they cannot afford to shun Khartoum, which hosts two major U.N. peacekeeping operations, possesses massive oil reserves and now has a new role as a U.N. power broker.”

  (possesses massive oil reserves)

  “They can never do without us,” Mohamad said. “Our diplomatic standing is always on the rise. Whenever others unjustly try to corner us, we emerge victorious.”

  “It’s a strange reality,” Rice said in an interview, citing Sudan’s diplomatic clout here. “As the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, I’m going to meet with the ambassador of Sudan in his capacity as head of the G-77. I’m going to do it because it’s in our interest. But more broadly, this administration is not reflexively averse to talking to countries or people with whom we disagree. We don’t view talking as a reward . . . but as a means to serve a larger policy goal.”

  But Rice added that the diplomatic outreach to Sudan should not be seen as wavering on Darfur. “We are going to be very strong and energetic in an effort to deal effectively with this ongoing genocide and to make it very clear that the behavior of the government of Sudan is simply unacceptable and something we condemn,” she said. “There is no ambiguity or gray in that. ”

Read the rest here.

http://www.truthout.org/021109T

Meantime, does anybody really think that THIS on-going genocide (not to be confused with the ongoing Genocide in the Occupied Territories of Gaza) is about Islamic Extremism?

If so, you’re beyond hope.

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By PatrickHenry, February 11, 2009 at 7:50 pm Link to this comment

Another country. 

I hope it will develop into a recognized worldwide boycott like the one which toppled the apartheid South African government.

http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1063399.html

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By cyrena, February 11, 2009 at 7:38 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous:
Re: By Shenonymous, February 11 at 3:07 pm #
February 11, 2009
The New York TImes

Palestinians Press for War Crimes Inquiry on Gaza [and Israel presses for Hamas’ violation of peace agreement.]

By Marlise Simons
The following has been edited, For the full article
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/11/world/middleeast/11h ague.html?_r=1&ref=world&pagewanted=print

~~~


I’ve been following this very closely, (having already read the entire piece, along with other coverage of this) and will continue to watch (from the foundation of International Law) how this proceeds. I am guardedly optimistic. The issue of Palestine’s ‘non’-Statehood isn’t the overwhelming obstacle, nor is the fact that Israel is not a member of the World Court. IHL (International Humanitarian Law) represents and protects ALL people, and Israel is as committed to the Geneva Conventions as any other state or non-state is protected by them. War Crimes can be levied against anybody, (including former heads of state) so there is all the precedent in the world for this Inquiry, (Nuremberg) contrary the singular focus described here.

Still, I’ll be watching, and again…with guarded optimism. It would be great if such an inquiry actually examined the issues of who violated the peace agreement, since it sure hasn’t been Hamas.

It’s hard to imagine that Israel is actually willing to ‘tell on itself’ by even making such an issue about who supposedly violated any peace agreements, because we already know that the so-far 2 year old starvation blockade is an ACT OF WAR! And was an ACT OF WAR before the IDF killed those 7 Gazans ON the GAZAN side of the boarder there on November 4th, 2008. Hard to believe that Israel would want that to come out, though they’ve been blatantly unapologetic about all of the other crimes they’ve actually admitted to. (like using the White Phosphorus) so we can assume this is just Israel being Israel, as duplicitous and treacherous as ever.

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By cyrena, February 11, 2009 at 6:56 pm Link to this comment

Robert,

Re:By Robert, February 10 at 7:51 pm #

South Africa


Past nuclear policies

Background

~~~

I had NO IDEA of the collaboration between Israel and South Africa on the Nukes.

Thanks for this background.

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By Fadel Abdallah, February 11, 2009 at 6:45 pm Link to this comment

Another voice of TRUTH in the wilderness of falsehood and evil propaganda!
==============================
Dirty Socks
By Uri Avnery

http://www.countercurrents.org/avnery110209.htm

We are faced by a sorry lot of politicians, some of them documented failures and some completely free of any past achievements. There is no meaningful discussion between them about the issues. Not one of the main contenders offers real solutions to our basic problems. The differences between them are invisible without a magnifying glass

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By Fadel Abdallah, February 11, 2009 at 6:36 pm Link to this comment

The following article gives a a gloomy picture about the tragic situation in Palestine, thanks to Israeli siege and terrorism aided by American taxpayers money and cheer leading!
===================================
Digging For The Truth
By Sameh A. Habeeb & Janet Zimmerman

http://www.countercurrents.org/habeeb110209.htm

South of the Gaza Strip, a very strange phenomena is taking place. People are racing time, using primitive ways to get food and achieve a good life. The people in the Gaza Strip, the most densely populated area in the world, are forced to face death in order to attain life’s basic necessities. This is against all humanitarian laws, and the rights of these laws were stripped from the Gazans by Israel. Border crossings were closed as a tightened siege was imposed two years ago…

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By Shenonymous, February 11, 2009 at 4:07 pm Link to this comment

February 11, 2009
The New York TImes
Palestinians Press for War Crimes Inquiry on Gaza [and Israel presses for Hamas’ violation of peace agreement.]
By Marlise Simons
The following has been edited, For the full article
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/11/world/middleeast/11hague.html?_r=1&ref=world&pagewanted=print
THE HAGUE — The Palestinian Authority is pressing the International Criminal Court in The Hague to investigate accusations of war crimes committed by Israeli commanders during the recent war in Gaza.

The prosecutor has received more than 200 requests to look into allegations of war crimes during the recent fighting between Israel and Hamas militants. They include accusations…that Israel violated the rules of war by singling out civilians and nonmilitary buildings, and by using weapons like white phosphorus illegally.

“Quite a few groups have sent experts to the region, people doing forensic work, studying explosives and other weapons…”

Should a criminal investigation begin, the prosecution would send its own investigators, who would look into possible violations by both sides.  Hamas’s practice of sending rockets into southern Israel, which often landed in civilian areas, might be viewed as a violation. Israeli officials justified their offensive by saying they were trying to stop the rocket attacks.

The court here is the world’s first permanent international criminal court, created to examine war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide. It can prosecute any citizen from the 108 countries that are currently members of the court. Individuals, governments, the United Nations Security Council or the prosecutor can initiate cases.

Israel is not a member of the court, and the Palestinian territories, not being recognized as a sovereign nation, appear not to fulfill the requirements. But as a remedy, the Palestinian Authority has taken a first step by presenting a declaration to the court, formally accepting jurisdiction for “an indeterminate duration” over acts “committed on the territory of Palestine” since July 1, 2002, when the court’s authority began.

...such a declaration allows for joining the court on an ad hoc basis, and has been allowed before…

The issue has raised the question of whether Palestinian officials hope to obtain an implicit recognition of statehood through the court.

The court “will not use the term statehood,” said a legal expert close to the case who spoke on condition of anonymity because the issue was still being decided. “The court will avoid defining whether Palestine is a state. The decision will be only if Palestine can be admitted for the purposes of the court statute.”

Ms. Le Fraper, the director of jurisdiction, said her office would call on international experts to help settle such questions.

Another unknown is whether the Palestinian Authority can bring a case involving jurisdiction in Gaza. The authority is run by Fatah, but its rival faction, Hamas, has declared itself the only authority in Gaza and ousted Fatah from the territory.

Human rights groups and a number of United Nations officials have called for an independent international inquiry into actions by both sides…because of “Israel’s poor record of investigating and prosecuting serious violations by its forces, and the [complete] absence of any such effort by Hamas or other Palestinian groups.”

Western politicians and other critics of Israel’s recent conduct in Gaza have also said that Hamas has violated the rules of war and committed war crimes with indiscriminate rocket attacks on Israeli civilians and the use of its own civilians as human shields.

...Hamas’s rocket attacks and other acts viewed by some as crimes could also become part of any criminal investigation. By accepting the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court on its territory, the Palestinian Authority has also accepted jurisdiction over any war crimes by its own residents.

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By Robert, February 10, 2009 at 10:52 pm Link to this comment

Steadfast Before Goliath

2.9.09|
by Dr. Barghouthi

“When I am asked about Palestinian identity, one idea keeps coming to mind. I was told it would be translated into English as “steadfastness.” I looked up what a steadfast person would be like and the dictionary says, “One marked by firm determination or resolution-not shakable-of firm convictions and strong resolve.”

Dr. Barghouthi: A leading Palestinian politician defends his people and their nonviolent resistance to Israeli occupation.

That’s pretty close to what I had in mind, but somewhat incomplete-it is hard to capture an entire people in a word. Steadfastness refers to our Palestinian character of never giving in. It refers to our standing up to overwhelming odds time and again, without a friend in our corner. It is about our being beaten and abused in every way known to man, only to get back up with our heads held high.

This is impressive, but if it is understood only in this way steadfastness could easily be exchanged for a different, less appealing word: stubbornness. In itself, refusing to give up is not an admirable quality. After all, the rather unsavory and racist group of settlers in Hebron could also be described as steadfast. They too display “unwavering loyalty” and “firm convictions,” and they too seemingly never give in.

What makes our steadfastness admired around the world is not only our perseverance but the justice of our cause, which is freedom, democracy and plurality. It is important to remember this broader definition of our character and our steadfastness. It is even more important for us to more loudly trumpet this, our true identity, throughout the world.

The reason is simple: Israel has dedicated an enormous amount of resources to perverting our identity and the character of our struggle. It has gained a significant degree of influence over the media, especially in the West, and has used this strength to transform and manipulate reality to its own ends. Thus despite our being slaughtered in the streets of Gaza, we are told that we are not only to blame but that the siege we are enduring is unworthy of international intervention.

Despite having thousands of our civilian brothers, sons, fathers, sisters, mothers and daughters in Israeli prisons routinely subjected to torture, we are told to immediately release a single captured Israeli soldier-or face another wave of high-tech brutality.

Despite the fact that we have international and human rights law on our side, it is said that we are “stubborn” because of our refusal to surrender the remainder of our historic birthright to Israeli occupation. We Palestinians are depicted in much of the media as steadfast only in our savagery, irrationality and propensity for violence.”

“The international media do not focus on this, of course; instead they choose to emphasize the rare instances of Palestinian violence to such a degree that in the eyes of the international community, they appear to be comparable to the massive crimes of our occupier. There is no better example of this than the international coverage of the slaughter of our brothers and sisters in the Gaza Strip. The world is told, and thus believes, that a “war” was being waged between two equals, rather than an asymmetric massacre being carried out by the world’s fifth-largest military-industrial complex upon one of the world’s last remaining stateless peoples.

Israel has not only killed hundreds of women, children and civilian men; it has systematically destroyed the economy and infrastructure of the tiny coastal Strip. It has employed illegal incendiary weapons against heavily populated civilian areas and munitions that burn through our skin, straight to the bone. Israel has killed doctors, journalists and aid workers alike in its “war against Hamas and terror” and it remains brazenly unapologetic.”

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=2693

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By Robert, February 10, 2009 at 8:51 pm Link to this comment

South Africa


Past nuclear policies

Background

“South Africa is host to rich uranium deposits that were discovered in the 1940s. In 1952, that country created the Atomic Energy Board (AEB) to oversee uranium sales and development.(1) In 1959, the AEB began large-scale nuclear research and development in uranium enrichment processes and an indigenous power reactor production. As early as 1963, South Africa, and Israel collaborated on civilian and military nuclear programs, to include the supply of 10 tons of uranium to Israel.(2)

In 1967, South Africa began a program to build peaceful nuclear explosives (PNEs). In 1970, the Y-plant, the nation’s first uranium enrichment plant, was established. In 1971, the Minister of Mines Carl de Wet secretly approved exploration into nuclear explosive production.(3) When exactly it became a nuclear weapons program is still under debate. However, when the program was converted, it included designs for gun-type, implosion-type, boosted fission, and thermonuclear weapons. During the 1970s and 1980s, South Africa’s Atomic Energy Corporation (AEC), the successor to the AEB, directed research into a nuclear weapons program. Much of the information they used for the program was from open-sources such as declassified documents from the Manhattan Project.

During this time, South Africa expanded its collaboration with Israel in the science and defence fields.(4) From 1972 to 1975, Israel provided South Africa with technological training, anti-tank rounds and natural uranium rods in exchange for depleted uranium.(5) South African-Israeli cooperation is highlighted by the high level visit to Israel in 1976, where officials agreed on technological exchanges and arms trade (Gabriel surface-to-surface missiles, Gallil rifles, and Uzi submachine guns).(6) In 1975, after two years of searching for a nuclear test site, two test shafts over 250 meters deep were drilled at the Vastrap military base in the Kalahari Desert. In 1977, South Africa completed it first full-scale nuclear device based on a gun-type design. However, the device did not have enough HEU to be fully operational.(7) Therefore, a depleted uranium core was used to conduct a cold test of the device. Later, in August 1977, the Soviet Union, using one of its satellites, discovered nuclear test preparations in the Kalahari Desert. In response to international pressure, particularly from the Soviet Union, the US, and France, South Africa provisionally cancelled testing plans.(8)

In 1979, the Armaments Corporation of South Africa (Armscor) took over the development of nuclear weaponry at the Building 5000 complex, the Kentron Circle facility, and the Somchem facility. The three main components of the South African program at this point, included:

 

1) the development of deliverable gun-type devices,
(2) exploration of implosion and thermonuclear technology, including “boosted” devices, and,
(3) research and development of production and recovery of plutonium and tritium, and production of lithium 6.(9)

On September 22, 1979, a US Vela satellite detected a double flash of light in the South Atlantic Ocean.(10) South Africa immediately denied that it had conducted a nuclear test. However, it seems possible, given South Africa’s known nuclear developments, and its nuclear cooperation with Israel.(11) By 1982, South Africa developed its first complete nuclear explosive device. By 1989, South Africa had completed six gun-type devices, each containing 55 kg of HEU, and the Y-plant had produced considerable HEU for a seventh device.(12)”


http://www.sipri.org/contents/expcon/cnsc2sa.html

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By cyrena, February 10, 2009 at 6:39 pm Link to this comment

By OzarkMichael, February 10 at 11:13 am #
Many times on this thread, the pro Hamas crowd has complained that i have strayed beyond the article’s topic of Gaza. Here is a sample complaint from cyrena: no longer having anything at all to do with who actually DOES speak up for Gaza, and/or why there are so few who do.
So when I identify that Hamas is why i cannot speak for Gaza we get this response from cyrena: Apparently the focus of truthdigger Zionists have narrowed from anti-Muslim and anti-Arab racism to attacking Hamas
~~
OM,
You’re confused. Go back and read the relevant posts. First of all, it wasn’t me who referred to the narrowing of the focus of truthdigger Zionists from just the general anti-Muslim and anti-Arab racism to target Hamas specifically, it was Folktruther, in his post here:

By Folktruther, February 8 at 11:04 am #
“Apparently the focus of truthdigger Zionists have narrowed from anti-Muslim and anti-Arab racism to attacking Hamas, the only defender of the Palestinians that they have.  The starvation blockade, an act of war, which is continuing, and it and the Israeli slaughter in Gaza, is attributed to the evil of Hamas.”

All I did was agree with him, since I’ve noted the same, in this very bizarre and twisted thread.
You also seem to think that I was speaking specifically about YOU. I wasn’t, and I don’t know if Folktruther was considering you specifically either. He just wrote, “truthdigger Zionists” even though he probably should have written “trooth-digger Zionists” (not to be confused with Jews) since it’s really been the wild ride of Shenonymous and a few others that have taken us on this magic carpet ride of Islamic fundamentalism that nobody in Gaza or the other Occupied Territories is even conscious of, or has time to care about, considering they just wanna stay alive.

So, in your apparent patriarchal arrogance and vanity, you apparently presumed that I was addressing YOU, when I never made the comment to begin with, and I certainly wasn’t talking about (or even thinking about) you when I agreed with Folktruther. (which is pretty much an anomaly as well – it isn’t often that I agree with him, at least on the “analysis” of the data that we may actually agree upon.)

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By cyrena, February 10, 2009 at 6:37 pm Link to this comment

2 of 2

And, that’s pretty much the same with the rest of you. I don’t discount that certain conditions exist, and we can agree on that much of the reality…sometimes. It’s just that you of the rabid Zionist mentalities, (keeping in mind again please, that not all Jews are Zionists and not all Zionists are Jews) don’t understand (willfully I would say) how or why those conditions exist, because you willfully refuse to accept the real causes of the Palestine-Israel Conflict. Or, at least that’s the case with Shenonymous and the other’s in willful denial. You appear to share that mentality.

So, instead of actually facing the TRUTH of the reasons for the long term oppression and ethnic cleansing of an entire population over an extended period of time. (identical in many ways to how many of my own ancestors lived and died as a result of the ‘founding’ of these United States) Rather than admit the reality, (and these barbaric human realities of greed/conquer/control) of what is going on here, people like you choose to ‘blame the victim’ or otherwise demonize the victim by turning them into the so-called terrorists.

You should check out Fadel’s post from a piece by Nir Rosen, who explains this phenomena quite well.  Speaking of which, I doubt very seriously if Fadel is at all ‘injured’ by your stupid juvenile back-biting insults. I AM though; since it’s arrogantly sexist to accuse me of “stomping my feet’ just like I woman”, just as it is an insult to women in general. As it happens, I’m not at all into ‘stomping my feet’ or “wringing my hands”, or any other wasted ‘reaction’ to a given set of conditions or circumstances. So rest assured, speaking for myself only, I’m far more given to kicking somebody’s ass than I am to stomping my feet when such conditions and circumstances require a reaction. Generally though, I can avoid that. I save the foot stomping exercise for dancing and making wine out of grapes.

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By cyrena, February 10, 2009 at 5:53 pm Link to this comment

Fadel,

Thank you ever so much for posting this excerpt from Nir Rosen. Just as he has spent most of the Bush regime reporting from these various conflicts, I have been following his reporting very closely. Nir Rosen is a journalist and academic for our times, part of the desperately needed journalism that we need to enlighten a Western mentality still stuck in the propaganda that has been so expertly crafted back in the earlier decades.

He hits in on the head here:

•  “Bush’s final visit to the country he chose to occupy ended with an educated secular Shiite Iraqi throwing his shoes at him, expressing the feelings of the entire Arab world save its dictators who have imprudently attached themselves to a hated American regime.”

It ended with an EDUCATED and SECULAR Shiite Iraqi throwing his shoes at him, and nothing demonstrates the feelings of the entire Arab World better than that. (minus the dictators that have so stupidly allowed themselves to co-opted and punked-out (as the kids would say) by the hated American regime.

http://www.articlesbase.com/politics-articles/the-dictator-of-egypt-378997.html

Ironically enough, (or maybe not so at all) none of these dictators or their serfs have realized any benefit from their associations with this hated regime. Even more paradoxically, the neocon plan always included THEM as targets in the bigger and long term project too!! How or why has Egypt come to collaborate with Israel over the suppression of its Arab brothers and sisters is beyond me, until I think to the real politick that has been created by the Politics of Fear.

Anyway, Nir Rosen can always be relied upon to give us the reality in real time. Thanks for sharing this.
•  “Terrorism is a normative term and not a descriptive concept. An empty word that means everything and nothing, it is used to describe what the Other does, not what we do. The powerful – whether Israel, America, Russia or China – will always describe their victims’ struggle as terrorism, but the destruction of Chechnya, the ethnic cleansing of Palestine, the slow slaughter of the remaining Palestinians, the American occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan – with the tens of thousands of civilians it has killed … these will never earn the title of terrorism, though civilians were the target and terrorizing them was the purpose.”

Pay attention peeps. Try to catch-up.

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By Shenonymous, February 10, 2009 at 5:44 pm Link to this comment

Israel has been in the location where it is today since 1917, almost a hundred years becoming a nation on May 14, 1948.  And the Jewish and Arabs have been going at violence ever since.  There may have been respites every so often but it has been mostly war and not peace.  Physical violence erupted in the British controlled mandate, 1920 in Palestine riots, 1921 Palestine riots, 1929 the Hebron massacre and the 1936-1939 Arab revolt in Palestine.  Both Jews and Arabs directed violence against the British as both Jews and Arabs held the Mandate in contempt.  WWII turned the land over to the United Nations.  In 1947 the UN partitioned Palestine into two states, Jewish and Arab.  The Jewish leadership accepted the plan, but the Palestinian did not. 

Egypt Lebanon, Syria, Transjordan and Iraq invaded the Israelis in Palestine which began the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.  Israel won and captured the spoils of war of additional territory beyond the partition borders leaving Jerusalem a divided city.  What Israel did not capture resulted in an Arab state but it was not organized as a country.  Again in 1970, the PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization) was expelled from JORDAN, which became known as the Black September, and moved into Lebanon JOINING THOUSANDS ALREADY THERE.  IN 1973 Egype and Syria started the Yom Kippur War against Israel. 

It was the seventh time Israel had been attacked by Arabs.  Never the other way around.  Israel won every war brought to them by the Arabs and finally in 1982, the tension between Israel and the PLO led Israel to invade Labanon and forced the PLO to withdraw again into Tunisia. It was allies of Israel, not the Israelis, the Phalangists, a Lebanese Christian political party, that committed a massacre in which thousands of unarmed Palestinians were killed by the Phalange in Sabra and Chatila retaliation for the murder of their leader Bashir Gemayel, and from that year the Phalange gradually lost its momentum and importance.  Google the Lebanese civil war for more information.

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By PatrickHenry, February 10, 2009 at 5:34 pm Link to this comment

With neighbors like these who needs enemies.

http://english.pnn.ps/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4748&Itemid=1

I don’t regret the Palestinians use of whatever they can whip up in their garages against these clowns.

TM-31-210 is a good start.

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By Fadel Abdallah, February 10, 2009 at 4:48 pm Link to this comment

The link provided in my previous comment was incomplete; here it is again!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/dec/29/ga za-hamas-israel

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By Fadel Abdallah, February 10, 2009 at 4:28 pm Link to this comment

Below, please read a voice of TRUTH in the wilderness of falsehood! A good free education for learned and ignorant alike!
================================== 
Gaza: the logic of colonial power

by Nir Rosen

As so often, the term ‘terrorism’ has proved a rhetorical smokescreen under cover of which the strong crush the weak.

I have spent most of the Bush administration’s tenure reporting from Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Somalia and other conflicts. I have been published by most major publications. I have been interviewed by most major networks and I have even testified before the senate foreign relations committee. The Bush administration began its tenure with Palestinians being massacred and it ends with Israel committing one of its largest massacres yet in a 60-year history of occupying Palestinian land. Bush’s final visit to the country he chose to occupy ended with an educated secular Shiite Iraqi throwing his shoes at him, expressing the feelings of the entire Arab world save its dictators who have imprudently attached themselves to a hated American regime.
Once again, the Israelis bomb the starving and imprisoned population of Gaza. The world watches the plight of 1.5 million Gazans live on TV and online; the western media largely justify the Israeli action. Even some Arab outlets try to equate the Palestinian resistance with the might of the Israeli military machine. And none of this is a surprise. The Israelis just concluded a round-the-world public relations campaign to gather support for their assault, even gaining the collaboration of Arab states like Egypt.
The international community is directly guilty for this latest massacre. Will it remain immune from the wrath of a desperate people? So far, there have been large demonstrations in Lebanon, Yemen, Jordan, Egypt, Syria and Iraq. The people of the Arab world will not forget. The Palestinians will not forget. “All that you have done to our people is registered in our notebooks,” as the poet Mahmoud Darwish said.
I have often been asked by policy analysts, policy-makers and those stuck with implementing those policies for my advice on what I think America should do to promote peace or win hearts and minds in the Muslim world. It too often feels futile, because such a revolution in American policy would be required that only a true revolution in the American government could bring about the needed changes. An American journal once asked me to contribute an essay to a discussion on whether terrorism or attacks against civilians could ever be justified. My answer was that an American journal should not be asking whether attacks on civilians can ever be justified. This is a question for the weak, for the Native Americans in the past, for the Jews in Nazi Germany, for the Palestinians today, to ask themselves.
Terrorism is a normative term and not a descriptive concept. An empty word that means everything and nothing, it is used to describe what the Other does, not what we do. The powerful – whether Israel, America, Russia or China – will always describe their victims’ struggle as terrorism, but the destruction of Chechnya, the ethnic cleansing of Palestine, the slow slaughter of the remaining Palestinians, the American occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan – with the tens of thousands of civilians it has killed … these will never earn the title of terrorism, though civilians were the target and terrorizing them was the purpose.

Read the rest of the article at:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/dec/29/ga za-hamas-israel

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By PatrickHenry, February 10, 2009 at 4:13 pm Link to this comment

By Shenonymous, February 10 at 4:16 am #

Nice bios.

A traitors death.  Rosenberg should have been offered a firing squad, much like Pollard.

Do you thin J. Oppenheimer is related to the DeBeers Oppenheimers of South Africa and the world?

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Global_Secrets_Lies/Israel_SAfrica.html

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By OzarkMichael, February 10, 2009 at 12:13 pm Link to this comment

Many times on this thread, the pro Hamas crowd has complained that i have strayed beyond the article’s topic of Gaza. Here is a sample complaint from cyrena: no longer having anything at all to do with who actually DOES speak up for Gaza, and/or why there are so few who do.

So when I identify that Hamas is why i cannot speak for Gaza we get this response from cyrena: Apparently the focus of truthdigger Zionists have narrowed from anti-Muslim and anti-Arab racism to attacking Hamas

By the way, no one has yet shown that Hamas will accept a permanent peace treaty with Israel. That isnt an attack, its a fact that Hamas itself proclaims. Is Hamas attacking itself?

Now we come to the funny part. The comic relief provided by Le Femme Fadel: I am so saddened and outraged that the just Palestinian cause has been reduced to Gaza and Hamas.

It wasnt long ago that Fadel excoriated me for straying beyond the thread topic of Gaza. Now Fadel chastises us because… we havent strayed beyond the thread topic of Gaza, and Fadel does this with such feminine emotion as ‘saddened’ and ‘outraged’ over our conversation here.

Just like a woman to change her mind. And stomp her feet to get her way. I am surprised Le Femme didnt make another dramatic exit.

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By Shenonymous, February 10, 2009 at 5:17 am Link to this comment

By PatrickHenry, February 10 at 6:22 am #
By Shenonymous, February 9 at 2:01 pm #
“First nuclear weapon test:  possibly September 22, 1979 but no evidence from any source”.
I’ve seen the data first hand from a KH-11 around that date taken off the coast of South Africa when they were a apartheid state.  South Africa has since changed, Israel has not.
Birds of a feather.
If Julius and Ethel Rosenberg or Oppenheimer were in possession of these secrets, Israel was too.

Faulty Comparison and Straw Man argument PH.  Your logic is missing a couple of things.  Logic and truth.

And your evidence is missing something.  Evidence.

Making the comparison between South Africa and Israel is an invention of your mind and falls under the category of lying.  And jumping to conclusions about the Rosenbergs and Oppenheimer and what they knew and what Israel knew is a cheap unfounded claim.  It is a misrepresentation of the truth.  Their association was with Soviet Russia not Israel.  I personally believe the Rosenbergs’ execution was morally wrong.

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By Shenonymous, February 10, 2009 at 5:16 am Link to this comment

An offering of the truth to clarify your fuzzy statements:
In the late 1940s American code breakers deciphered Soviet cables indicating that Klaus Fuchs, a British physicist who had worked with Americans on the Manhattan Project to develop the atomic bomb, had been a Soviet spy. In January 1950 Fuchs confessed to British authorities. He also provided information allowing the FBI to identify the American courier who delivered his information to the Soviets as Harry Gold. Gold confessed and testified that he also picked up material from a second source at Los Alamos, the bomb project’s chief site. The FBI identified David Greenglass, a skilled machinist who worked on the implosion fuse for the plutonium bomb, as the second source. He also confessed, as did his wife Ruth; they identified their recruiters into espionage as David’s brother-in-law, Julius Rosenberg, and David’s sister, Ethel Rosenberg, both secret Communists. The Rosenbergs, who denied all, were convicted of espionage and received the death sentence, with prosecutors hoping they would confess to win reprieves and identify other members of the large spy apparatus Julius supervised. Both, however, refused to talk and were executed in 1953. (Fuchs, Gold, and Greenglass served long prison terms.)

Evidence that has appeared since the collapse of the Soviet Union has confirmed Julius Rosenberg’s role as a Soviet spy. The Rosenberg case reinforced in the public mind the link between Soviet espionage and sympathy for Communism. The case was particularly inflammatory because it surfaced during the Korean War, when American troops were engaged in difficult combat against Communist soldiers, and because it involved atomic espionage and the unexpectedly swift ability of the Soviet Union to overcome the American atomic monopoly that had existed in 1945. That monopoly had briefly appeared to guarantee American security.

J. Robert Oppenheimer, a distinguished theoretical physicist, was the scientific director of the Manhattan Project. He is credited with recruiting the scientific talent needed to design the atomic bomb and coordinating the scientific work with the massive engineering projects required to produce fissionable uranium and plutonium. In 1954 the Atomic Energy Commission, after lengthy hearings, voted not to renew Oppenheimer’s security clearance. He was never charged with espionage, and no American security agency ever concluded that he spied. However, according to his own testimony he had been a financial contributor to the Communist Party until 1941. Oppenheimer’s wife was the widow of a militant Communist official and his brother a secret Communist Party member. In 1943 Oppenheimer informed security officials that he had been asked to provide information to the Soviets by a friend and identified colleagues whom he regarded as security risks. However, he changed his statement about this incident several times and later repudiated parts of it. He was also ambiguous and unforthcoming when later asked about his relationship to the Communist Party.

Although many scientists regarded Oppenheimer as the victim of paranoia, to much of the public Oppenheimer’s unresponsive testimony appeared suspicious. Evidence appearing after the Soviet collapse suggests that Oppenheimer probably was a Communist Party member until 1941, something he denied, but his role, if any, in espionage remains unclear. He was tried by a security hearing but found “Not Guilty of Treason”. Nevertheless, in 1953, President Eisenhower dismissed Oppenheimer, blacklisting him to deny him any government work. Scientists around the world protested about his trial, but to no avail.

However, in 1963, President Johnson awarded Oppenheimer the AEC’s FermiAward of the in public recognition for his contribution to the US as Manhattan Project Director, ending the ten-year disgrace of the McCarthy black listing.

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By PatrickHenry, February 10, 2009 at 4:22 am Link to this comment

By Shenonymous, February 9 at 2:01 pm #

“First nuclear weapon test:  possibly September 22, 1979 but no evidence from any source”.

I’ve seen the data first hand from a KH-11 around that date taken off the coast of South Africa when they were a apartheid state.  South Africa has since changed, Israel has not.

Birds of a feather.

If Julius and Ethel Rosenberg or Oppenheimer were in possession of these secrets, Israel was too.

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By cyrena, February 9, 2009 at 10:06 pm Link to this comment

I’ve just received this in my school/professional email, and it is SO timely to this thread, or at least what it has become since the highjacking long ago, no longer having anything at all to do with who actually DOES speak up for Gaza, and/or why there are so few who do.
However, since the thread was highjacked long ago by those afflicted with “Islamic Terrorist Propaganda Disorder”,  (ITPD – they all end with ‘D’) we’ve been through this circle on this and another thread here, which always comes back to horror stories of Middle Eastern Women at the hands of Barbaric “Islamists” (all Arab of course) which we KNOW has nothing to do with the 41 year conflict/massacre/holocaust in the Occupied Territories of Palestine.  Well except of course, some folks really DON’T know.
Anyway, this is the ‘announcement’ for a Very Distinguished Guest Lecturer that will be at a couple of our Campuses this week. I’m hoping that even though most of you may be too far away to actually attend the event, (please feel free to send me a Private Message if you CAN or would like to attend, and I can provide the details and contact info…it’s a free event) you might at least ‘pick up’ some information just from the description of Dr. Abu-Lughod’s work. Even without hearing her upcoming lecture, (and I’ll try to record it for anyone who might want to view it…we’ll see what the set up allows) just the references included in the announcement are worth their weight in gold, for anyone who would like to pursue this particular field of academic inquiry. It will hopefully help your boost into the 21st Century of reality.

~*~*

The Journal of Middle East Women’s Studies Distinguished Lecture

Lila Abu-Lughod, Columbia University

The Social Life of Muslim Women’s Rights

The concept of “Muslim women’s rights” has an extraordinarily active social life these days. It circulates across continents. It travels in and out of classrooms and government policy offices; UN forums in New York and Geneva and local women’s organizations in places like Egypt,  Malaysia, and Palestine; racy television soap operas and sober mosque study groups; popular novels recognizable by the veiled women stamped on their covers and innovative model marriage contracts developed by Muslim feminists seeking equity within the religious tradition. What do we make of this intense concern with “Muslim women’s rights” and what do we make of its promiscuous travels? “Women’s rights” mean
different things to women living complicated lives in villages and urban lawyers drawing seamlessly on the authority of CEDAW. What can we learn from tracking “rights talk,” as an anthropologist would, into everyday lives?

Lila Abu-Lughod is the Joseph L. Buttenwieser Professor of Social Science at Columbia University. She teaches in the Anthropology Department and at the Institute for Research on Women and Gender. An
anthropologist who has done extensive fieldwork in Egypt on women,  gender politics, and expressive culture, including media, she is the author of three award-winning ethnographies: Veiled Sentiments: Honor and Poetry in a Bedouin Society (IUAES Silver Medal; Chicago Folklore Prize, honorable mention); Writing Women’s Worlds (Victor Turner Award); and Dramas of Nationhood: The Politics of Television in Egypt (American Ethnological Society Book Prize). She has edited or co-edited Remaking Women: Feminism and Modernity in the Middle East;  Media Worlds: Anthropology on New Terrain and Nakba: Palestine, 1948 and the Claims of Memory.

Currently a Carnegie Scholar, she is working on a book that critically examines the international circulation of discourses on women’s human rights, and the particular ways that Muslim women’s rights are problematized in this political moment.

TBC

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By cyrena, February 9, 2009 at 10:03 pm Link to this comment

2 of 2

The event is sponsored by the Journal of Middle East Women’s Studies, the UCSB Center for Middle East Studies, the UCSB Department of Feminist Studies, the UCSB Department of History, the UCSB Interdisciplinary Humanities Center, UCSB Divisions of Social Sciences and Humanities, the UCLA Center for the Study of Women, the UCLA Center for Near Eastern Studies, the UCLA Department of Womens’  Studies, and the UCLA Dean of Social Sciences.

I am (along with several of my colleagues) really looking forward to her talk. Shenonymous, this actually might be of interest to you. It’s Academia 21st Century Style.

Fadel, I’ve somehow lost the correct email address for you, and I was hoping to forward this announcement along to you, with the contacts, just for whatever interest you might have. I’m thinking you’re already familiar with Lila and her work, and that it may be of interest to you as well.

If so, let me know and I’ll get the info to you.

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By cyrena, February 9, 2009 at 9:09 pm Link to this comment

What kind of devastation would that bring to say, a city like Santa Barbara?  Not much?  Hmmmm.  It would wipe a small town right off the map.  But let’s not count them like we count beans. Gosh.

~~~

Good question shenon? What WOULD this do to a place like Santa Barbara? It HASN’T DONE A GODDAMN THING to Israel, and Santa Barbara is larger.

Still, how would we know? 14 Israeli Jews have been killed by violence associated with ALL OF THESE YEARS AND YEARS OF ROCKETS AND MORTARS, (you can make up as many numbers of rockets and shells as you want) in the last 10 years. So, I suppose if Santa Barbara was under this same years and years worth of homemade rocket and motor attack, we could probably expect the same results as Israel has.

Needless to say, far more Israeli Jews and Santa Barbara residents die from multiple other standard causes, (Israel has about 400 traffic accident fatalities a year, and I don’t know what Santa Barbara’s record is) so that pretty much wipes out this episode of your spiteful attack.

It’s OK though. I know you don’t REALLY mean to be that nasty.

Meantime, since Santa Barbara is NOT under attack by any terrorists from Israel or Palestine, (at least not to my knowledge) I’ve been able to collect all of the appropriate links to the course I’m starting for all of my contemporaries, on Mass Propaganda, (which is what we’ve been afflicted by, some far more than others) and I’ll be able to post some of those very helpful links shortly.

Stay tuned.

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By Fadel Abdallah, February 9, 2009 at 8:06 pm Link to this comment

Today, in his first prime time news conference, Prez. Obama docked the question from the famous veteran journalist Helen when she asked him whether he knew anything for sure about any Middle Eastern country that actually possess nuclear weapons!

That was a pointed question by Helen which came after Obama talked about the danger of allowing Iran to develop nuclear weapons- a speculative situation that has been a hot rhetorical topic with Bush administration and continues under Obama administration.

So instead of saying what the whole world knows about Israel being in possession of some 100-200 nuclear heads, the man who ran on a platform of “change you can believe in” proved that when it comes to Israel he does not even have the minimum courage and freedom to just say what the whole world knows!

The more things “change” the more they stay the same or get worse! What a disappointment after a long two year campaign with millions of dollars in small campaign contributions by the average main street people like myself and many other Americans of Arab and Muslim backgrounds who suffered for long years from Israeli occupation, terrorism and fascism!

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By Shenonymous, February 9, 2009 at 3:01 pm Link to this comment

Although there has never been any nuclear test detected in Israel in the 50 years Israel supposedly entered into the nuclear weapon business, it is generally believed to be the 6th country in the world to develop nuclear weapons. 

While it is still conjecture, Israel is far and wide believed to be the sixth country in the world to develop nuclear weapons,  and to be one of four nuclear-armed countries not recognized as a Nuclear Weapons State by the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), the other three being India, Pakistan and North Korea.  International Atomic Energy Agency Director General Mohamed El Baradei regards Israel as a state possessing nuclear weapons, but Israel maintains a policy known as “nuclear ambiguity” (also known as “nuclear opacity”). Israel has never officially admitted to having nuclear weapons, instead repeating over the years that it would not be the first country to “introduce” nuclear weapons to the Middle East, leaving ambiguous whether it means it will not create or will not use the weapons.

Israel began investigating the nuclear field just one year after its 1948 creation as a country and with French support secretly began building a nuclear reactor and reprocessing plant in the late 1950s. Although Israel first built a nuclear weapon in 1967-68 it was not publicly confirmed from the inside until Mordechai Vanunu, a former Israeli nuclear technician, revealed details of the program to the British press in 1986. Israel is currently believed to possess between 75 and 200 nuclear warheads with the ability to deliver them by ground, aircraft, and submarine,

The history of the “nuclear ambiguous nation”:
Nuclear program start date:  early 1950s
First nuclear weapon test:  possibly September 22, 1979 but no evidence from any source.
First fusion weapon test:  Unknown
Last nuclear test:  Unknown
Largest yield test:  Unknown
Total tests:  Unknown
Peak stockpile:  Unknown
Current stockpile:  Guestimate -  75-400 warheads Unable to verify
Maximum missile range:  Unknown
NPT signatory :  No

Nuclear-armed states, known and presumed:
US · Russia · UK · France
PR China · India · (Israel)
Pakistan · North Korea
(South Africa)

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By Robert, February 9, 2009 at 5:58 am Link to this comment

Chomsky on Palestine-Israel after the Gaza Massacre

Gaza And Its Aftermath

02.09.2009 | Z Net

By Noam Chomsky
and Assaf Kfoury

Noam Chomsky interviewed by Assaf Kfoury

“For more than three weeks, starting December 27th, Gaza and its 1.5 million people bore the brunt of a massive Israeli military campaign, supported and abetted by the US government. While Israel has now stopped its devastating air and ground operations in Gaza, it continues the total blockade from both the land and the sea, still pursuing the futile goal of trying to destroy Hamas and allied resistance groups by punishing the population around them.

Noam Chomsky gives a preliminary assessment of the US-Israel war on Gaza and its consequences in an interview conducted by Assaf Kfoury on January 31, 2009. The Arabic translation of the interview will appear in the Beirut daily as-Safir.

The public response in the US

AK: From the carnage in Gaza in recent weeks, there is a silver lining in the US, at least at the popular level. The devastation of Gaza has elicited something different, compared to the Lebanon war of 2006, or the Lebanon war of 1982, or other episodes of violence visited by Israel on Palestinians and Lebanese.

This time, for the first time perhaps, the public response in the US has been closer to the public response outside the US. Greater sympathy and support for the Palestinians, more criticism and anger at Israel’s actions. There were almost daily protests and demos, in major cities in the US, closer to the kind of public expressions we had been accustomed to see in Europe, Latin America, Asia and elsewhere.

This time, for example, we have seen significant participation in the US of Jewish groups in support of the Palestinians and against the Israeli government. We had never seen it before, certainly not to the same extent. This kind of participation has been coming through, not always in the mainstream media to be sure, but through alternative media channels on the Internet. For example, when 8 Jewish activists chained themselves and obstructed entrance to the Israeli consulate in Los Angeles while others carried signs reading “Closed For War Crimes” on January 14, the news came through the alternative channels, but not the New York Times, Washington Post and other major newspapers in the US.

Is this an exaggeration of the public response? And if it is not, can it be developed into a popular movement and, by extension, an effective pressure group on policy-makers?

NC: You are quite right that there was a difference in the reaction, a very noticeable difference, and that might turn out to be important. Many people, even knowing little about the matter, were revolted by the savage cruelty and cowardice of the IDF, brutally attacking defenseless people locked in a cage.

But we have to be careful in assessing the popular reaction. Most people are unaware of anything beyond the highly sanitized version that passes through media filters. Al-Jazeera is effectively barred in the US, so there was little direct visual reporting. And while the reality cannot be totally concealed, it is presented in fragments, and within a framework of apologetics—and of course portrays the US as an innocent bystander, dedicated to peace and justice, as always.

The strong and principled reaction is from a select part of the population. Polls showed a pretty even split between support for the invasion and opposition to it, and the opposition is mostly on grounds of “disproportion.” More revealing are the polls after the war ended—ended theoretically, that is; it is continuing, bitterly, though the facts are scarcely reported. A CNN poll on Jan. 24 found that 60% supported Israel, 17% the Palestinians. 63% felt that Israeli military action was justified, 30% disagreed. A Pew poll had rather similar results (Bloomberg News, Jan. 24).”


http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=2684

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By PatrickHenry, February 9, 2009 at 4:52 am Link to this comment

A nuclear armed fascist Israel.  The writing is on the wall.

http://www.uruknet.de/?s1=1&p=51609&s2=08

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By Shenonymous, February 9, 2009 at 3:17 am Link to this comment

I guess (according to the Shin Bet investigation) 565 rockets, 200 mortar shells fired at Israel within the first 16 days of the attack, plus another 35 over the span of two days, with reports that 10 percent were long range Katyushas.  Also 5,700 rockets and 4,000 mortar shells launched at Israel since 2005, with more than 2,000 rockets and 1,600 shells fired just in 2008.  Guess that isn’t much at all.  What kind of devastation would that bring to say, a city like Santa Barbara?  Not much?  Hmmmm.  It would wipe a small town right off the map.  But let’s not count them like we count beans. Gosh.

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By cyrena, February 8, 2009 at 11:00 pm Link to this comment

By Folktruther, February 8 at 11:04 am #
Apparently the focus of truthdigger Zionists have narrowed from anti-Muslim and anti-Arab racism to attacking Hamas, the only defender of the Palestinians that they have.  The starvation blockade, an act of war, which is continuing, and it and the Israeli slaughter in Gaza, is attributed to the evil of Hamas.
*~*~
Aw shucks Folkturther, you’re an astute and perceptive old cranky goat when you wanna be.
So you noticed. Now it’s all the fault of Hamas and their rockets. (before it was Lebanon and their rockets, and of course it’s been Syria, and Egypt, and Iraq, all historical and on-going targets for Zionist Destruction). So the poison has been narrowed, (in terms of its intended delivery target) but it’s all the more concentrated as a result. Blaming the fringe extremists of Islam for the 60 year Ethnic Cleansing of the Palestinians by Israel wasn’t faring so well. Reasonable minds won’t buy it, and there are still a few of us left.

Anyway, now the hysterical among us has turned the bean counter mentality to counting Hamas rockets. Never mind that starvation blockade of the past 20 months. Don’t even mention that as a cause for reaction from a community under attack. For the “Bigots Against Islam and Arabs” those are very inconvenient realities.

And yes, these are in fact the so-called truthdigging ‘ Zionists’, again displaying the paradox that such mentalities are NOT limited to Israelis or even Jews. Bigotry is universal, and it’s targets are interchangeable.  I have no doubt in my mind that some of these truthdiggers could care less about the ideology of Zionism, and that it’s all about the ‘enemy of my enemy’ mentality. Example: I/We (The Bigots Against Islam and Arabs) hate Arabs and Muslims. So do the Zionists of Israel. In fact the Zionists of Israel are committed to their destruction. Ergo, I/We (BAIA)will support the destruction of our mutual enemy, regardless of whether we hate them for the same reasons.

Yep, that pretty much sums it up.

Meantime Folktruther, you really DON’T KNOW what Barack Obama is ‘poised’ to do, so why don’t you just shut up and WATCH for awhile? What harm can that do? I mean, you’ve been claiming this in every single post you make, (Obama following Bushite policy) and these predictions of yours have been going on for months and months, despite the fact that he only took office just less than 3 weeks ago, and with no regard for what he’s actually accomplished in REVERSING the bushite disasters, at least to the extent that they can be bureaucratically as well as diplomatically reversed.

In fact, nearly every major ‘policy’ this new administration has addressed has been a polar opposite of the former thug regime; From the day 1 order to suspend the kangaroo trials at gitmo and to close the place down, to the interview with the Arab press, to the expansion of Children’s Health Care, to the restoration of the powers of the FOIA, to the Lilly Ledbetter Act, to the conciliatory ‘messages’ to Russia, to the welcoming back of the WORKERS (as in Labor Unions) to the protection of the government, and everything else that’s been managed in the past three weeks as well.

For whatever the reasons, you seem to have your own focus too narrowed in other directions, to be able to recognize these obvious changes.

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By Robert, February 8, 2009 at 2:31 pm Link to this comment

Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, January-February 2009, pages 7-9

Special Report

Middle East Leaders Hold Open the Door To Peace—Will U.S. and Israel Respond?

By Rachelle Marshall

“SHORLY AFTER Hamas’ election victory in January 2006, Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh sent a message to President George W. Bush requesting dialogue with the Americans. In a letter transmitted by Dr. Jerome Segal, professor of political science at the University of Maryland and founder of the Jewish Peace Lobby, Haniyeh wrote: “We are so concerned about stability and security in the area that we don’t mind having a Palestinian state in the 1967 borders and offering a truce for many years.” Segal delivered the letter by hand to the U.S. State Department. The Bush administration did not reply, and maintained its boycott of Hamas.

Haniyeh and other Hamas officials have continued to send out the same message. At least 10 times since 2006, Hamas has offered peace with Israel in exchange for Israel’s withdrawal to its 1967 borders. Hamas had even earlier endorsed the Arab peace proposal of April 2002, which offered Israel full diplomatic relations, including recognition, if Israel ended its occupation and agreed to “a just and agreed upon solution” for Palestinian refugees. The offer was ignored at the time by Israel and the U.S.

The Arab proposal remained dormant until this fall, when Israeli President Shimon Peres spoke at an interfaith conference at the United Nations and expressed partial support for the peace plan, but ruled out Israel’s withdrawal from any part of Jerusalem and the return of Palestinian refugees. Saudi Foreign Minister Saud al-Faisal responded that the proposal was “a package deal.”

On Nov. 8 Haniyeh met with 11 members of the European Parliament and again stressed his willingness to make peace with Israel. A few days later the chief of Hamas’ political bureau, Khaled Meshal, reminded President-elect Barack Obama of his campaign pledge to sit down and talk with adversaries, and invited him to discuss peace with Hamas leaders. Ahmed Yousef, an adviser to Hamas’ Foreign Ministry, called on Obama to “open his doors to people with different opinions and perspectives on the conflict.”

http://www.wrmea.com/archives/Jan_Feb_2009/0901007.html

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By Shenonymous, February 8, 2009 at 1:49 pm Link to this comment

Hamas is the only defender out of the entire Arab Empire that uses the Palestinians for their own “ideology.”  Hamas stands between the Palestinians and a decent life.  Just ask the other Arab countries why that is so?  Yes do keep supporting the terrorist organization called Hamas.

Since Robert loves to read long articles, here is one:
Does Hamas speak with forked tongue?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123409496074260593.html
Associated Press
Feb 8, 2009, 7:42 A.M. ET
Rocket Strikes Israel As Truce Talks Continue
JERUSALEM—Two rockets fired by Palestinian militants struck southern Israel on Sunday, Israel’s military said, violating an informal truce even as Israel and Gaza’s Hamas rulers appeared to be moving closer to cementing a long-term cease-fire.

The Gaza Strip’s strongman was in Syria, consulting with his Hamas bosses about the truce talks, while Israel’s defense minister warned Israelis they would have to pay a painful price as part of any deal. The flurry of activity came just two days before Israelis elect a new government expected to take a harder line in talks with the Palestinians.

Israel unilaterally ended on Jan. 18 a blistering, three-week offensive in Gaza, meant to halt years of rocket fire targeting southern Israeli communities. Hamas announced its own cease-fire the same day. Some 1,300 Palestinians were killed in the war, according to Gaza health officials and 13 Israelis also died, according to the government. Vast areas of Gaza were destroyed or heavily damaged.

While Egypt has been trying to broker a long-term cease-fire, sporadic violence has persisted. In separate attacks, Palestinian rockets exploded in the Nir Am communal farm and southern city of Ashkelon. No injuries were reported in either report, [want to thank Yahweh for that? or Allah? or just the continued poor marksmenship of Hamas?] though cars and buildings were damaged, authorities said. There was no immediate claim of responsibility for either attack.

With Israeli elections approaching Tuesday, both sides appeared to be racing to reach some sort of arrangement. Polls show that Israel’s next government [Netanyahu] would be much more hawkish than the current coalition, lending added urgency to seal a deal.

Israel wants militants to halt their attacks, end arms smuggling into Gaza and release an Israeli soldier Hamas has held captive for more than 21?2 years. Hamas wants an end to Israel’s economic blockade of Gaza, which has severely restricted the movement of goods in and out of Gaza since Hamas seized power in June 2007. It also has demanded the release of more than 1,000 Palestinian prisoners held by Israel in return for the soldier, Sgt. Gilad Schalit. Hundreds of the prisoners have been involved in deadly attacks on Israel and their release would likely generate unease if not outright controversy.

Mahmoud Zahar, Hamas’ Gaza strongman, was in the Syrian capital, Damascus, on Sunday to discuss truce prospects with the group’s exiled leadership. Israel allowed Mr. Zahar, who had been in hiding since the Israeli offensive, to leave Gaza on Saturday.

Speaking to reporters in Israel, Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak said he was doing his utmost to bring Sgt. Schalit home and warned that Israel would have to pay a “heavy” price.

“We’re not talking about hocus-pocus in which we roll the dice and get Gilad Schalit in return for a nice smile or a gesture,” he said. “In the end, attached to it is a heavy and painful price that we’ll have to decide on.”

In a separate radio interview, Mr. Barak said he didn’t think Sgt. Schalit would be home in time for Israel’s parliamentary election on Tuesday, but hoped he would be freed by the time the current government’s tenure ends in several weeks. Prime Minister Ehud Olmert tried to lower expectations, saying media reports in recent days of an impending release were “overblown and damaging.”

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By PatrickHenry, February 8, 2009 at 1:48 pm Link to this comment

Unfortunately Hamas is the only line of defense other than the neighborhood watch, against Israeli aggression.  They are not the best representative government, but compared with the transgressions of the respective Israeli and Bush governments, they are just more of the same.

McCarthyism squared alive and well in Israel.

http://uruknet.info/?p=m51580&hd;=&size=1&l=e

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By Folktruther, February 8, 2009 at 12:04 pm Link to this comment

Apparently the focus of truthdigger Zionists have narrowed from anti-Muslim and anti-Arab racism to attacking Hamas, the only defender of the Palestinians that they have.  The starvation blockade, an act of war, which is continuing, and it and the Israeli slaughter in Gaza, is attributed to the evil of Hamas.

All relgion tends to be a war ideology, and all religion oppresses women, especially the Jewish, Christian and Muslim religions, the monitheistic male religions.  Of these Islam is the worse in this regard.  This baarbarism must be opposed by progressives.

However, only Hamas stands between the Palesitinians and US-Israeli ethnic cleansing, especially as Natanyahu is apparently going to be the Zionist leader.  Hamas must therforre be supported militarily, and Israel opposed with boycotts, breaking off relations, preventing Israeli trade, divesting Israeli stock, and in any other ways that reduce Zionist power.

Since Obama is continuing the Bushite support for Israel, he must be opposed to avoid the horrors that continue to be inflicted on the Palestinian people.

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By Robert, February 8, 2009 at 11:06 am Link to this comment

MORE CHILDREN KILLED THAN MILITANTS

“The last Israeli troops left Gaza on Wednesday. The three week long shooting-fish-in-a-barrel exercise killed, on the Palestinian side, 280 children and minors, 111 women, and 503 male noncombatants. Gaza police accounted for 167 of the dead; can you just read off Gaza police as “Hamas militants”? Or were they traffic cops & etc.? The Palestinian Center for Human rights estimated that the Israelis killed 223 Hamas guerrillas. In other words, if this count is correct, the Israelis managed to kill more children than real militants.”


http://www.juancole.com/2009/01/gaza-aftermath-raises-question-of-war.html

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By Shenonymous, February 8, 2009 at 9:21 am Link to this comment

The following must stop for humanity’s sake.  Phosphorus must be outlawed for war use for any reason.  There is no good reason for its use.
BBC NEWS: for the full story
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/middle_east/7848768.stm
Published: 2009/01/24 12:59:09 GMT
‘Phosphorus wounds’ alarm Gazans
By Aleem Maqbool - Gaza City
Staring straight ahead and rocking steadily backwards and forwards in her hospital bed, Sabah Abu Halima lists the fate of each of her nine children.

“Abed, 14 years old, was decapitated,” she says. “Shaheed, one year and three months, was in my arms when the fire took her…”

Sabah explains that her husband and four of her children died when their house in northern Gaza was shelled during the recent Israeli offensive.

Many of the rooms in that house now lay dark and empty - blackened by fire.

The light fittings and power sockets have melted down the walls.

A shaft of light coming from the ceiling of the corridor, and mangled steel, marks the entry point of one of the missiles.

Scrawled, in Arabic, on the wall of a bedroom is the statement: “From the Israeli Defence Forces, we are sorry.”

But on the next wall, there is a patch of white where, Sabah’s 20-year-old son Mahmoud tells us, had also been the words “nice underwear”. He says he scrubbed them off in anger.

‘Strange burns’
Hundreds were killed in the 22-day Israeli offensive, but it is the manner in which Sabah’s relatives lost their lives, and the weapon used, that has attracted attention.

Sabah herself has suffered terrible burns on her arms, legs and torso and is in considerable pain.

“There was fire, and so much white smoke,” she says. “The missile melted my children. My daughter-in-law melted in front of my eyes.”

Dr Nafiz Abu Shabaan, the head of the unit in which Sabah is being treated, says he has seen many victims with what he described as “strange burns”.

“These burns were very severe, very deep, and became deeper and wider over time,” he says. “In some cases, smoke came out of the wound, even after hours.”

The cause of these types of injuries is believed, by visiting medical officials, to be Israel’s use of shells containing white phosphorus.

Incendiary weapon
In another part of the city, at a former security compound flattened by the Israeli bombardment, Marc Garlasco, senior military analyst at Human Rights Watch, points out evidence that white phosphorus had been used.

“We’re standing here right next to an M825A1, which is the US designation for their white phosphorus shell,” he says.

“Manufactured in the US and sold to Israel, the shell here is unexploded, although it’s cracked and you can see the phosphorus pouring out in kind of this yellow-orange colour.”

“Around the area there are also some white phosphorus felt pieces,” he adds.
“As the weapon explodes in mid-air, 116 pieces of felt doused in white phosphorus fall on a large area. These pieces are littered around here. If you kicked them open, they would begin to smoke and potentially reignite.”

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By Shenonymous, February 8, 2009 at 9:20 am Link to this comment

Part 2 - ‘Phosphorus wounds’ alarm Gazans

Controversial as it is, white phosphorus is not illegal, at least in an open battlefield setting, where it is used to mask troop movements, or set on fire areas of high brush that need clearing.

But the international convention on the use of incendiary weapons says it should not be used where there is a possibility of hitting civilians.

The compound sticks to human skin and will burn right through to the bone, causing death or leaving survivors with painful wounds which are slow to heal.

United Nations officials say it was used in the shelling of a school in which hundreds of civilians were taking refuge from the fighting, and fired at the UN’s main headquarters in Gaza.

Eyewitnesses and victims talk of it being used on many other occasions in built-up areas.

Internal investigation
After initially denying that white phosphorus shells were fired in Gaza, some Israeli military officials have now acknowledged its use.

The army says it has started an internal investigation, the insistence being until now that no weapons were used illegally.

Human rights groups have meanwhile started their own research.

“It’s important that we investigate the use of white phosphorus, because it does appear that it was used incorrectly in a clear breach of Geneva Conventions,” says Mr Garlasco.

“But as grave as the injuries caused by white phosphorus are, there are a number of weapons that were used in Gaza that killed and injured an awful lot more people,” he adds.

“We have to look at the full variety of weapons that were used here, how they were employed and how they impacted on the civilian population.”

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By Shenonymous, February 8, 2009 at 9:20 am Link to this comment

In January I warned about Netanyahu.  It was not yet a fait accompli.  I also noted if he came to power it would be disastrous for the Palestinians.  It would be ruinous for the Israelis too for the world knows what he thinks.  If any peace can be brokered it will not be because he takes over the seat of power in Israel.  Hope must be the card played that the Israeli people do not let that happen.  The Palestinian cause and the Israeli cause is the point now.  That was set aside when Hamas attacked Israel.  And that point can be argued vehemently until kingdom come.  But unfortunately it has taken nearly 1300 people, 40% children, as the toll.  Control over Hamas must be made if any deal is to be made.  And the Israelis must control themselves and not elect Netanyahu.  The supporters of Israel must resolve to withdraw their aid if he is.  The point includes Gaza and Hamas.  It cannot be escaped. 

Seems like it will take more than earthlings to create a peace so that the Palestinians might finally have not only a country but are given their right to develop as human beings.  Shall it be left up to the gods?  Shall Allah and Yahweh duke it out?  Let’s hope they are sitting in on the meetings in Egypt.

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By Fadel Abdallah, February 8, 2009 at 8:25 am Link to this comment

I am so saddened and outraged that the just Palestinian cause has been reduced to Gaza and Hamas.

This has been an Israeli deliberate propaganda ploy to fragment the larger just cause of Palestine, and with the evil propagandists they managed to succeed.

Those who watched the 60 Minutes segment posted earlier, showing Israeli brutality and evils of occupation should remember that what shown comes from the West Bank part of Palestine, an area thanks to the sell-out Mahmoud Abbass, has no organized Palestinian military resistance to Israel’s fascist terrorist occupation!

My appeal to good intentioned people, like Robert and Cyrena, is not to fall into the trap of the Zionist evil propagandists and accept the fragmentation of the larger issue of Palestine and Palestinians versus Israeli terrorism, fascism and occupation.

It seems obvious why the evil propagandists on this thread continue to artificially prolong this thread indefinitely because it focuses on Gaza and Hamas while drawing attention away from the larger issue!

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By Inherit The Wind, February 8, 2009 at 7:24 am Link to this comment

Cyrena:

No, I didn’t give an Internet source because I read it in an anachronism: The Newark Star-Ledger—something called a “newspaper”.  But the AP is a pretty standard source and I merely stated what they reported.

You changed the discussion with me from the stealing of aid to the issue of whether the IDF used white phosphorus illegally. 

I have no objection to determining if WP was used illegally (under International Law).  I understand it can be used legally for illumination at night, but not if it falls on civilians.

But that does NOT change the issue that the UN was forced to halt aid to suffering Palestinians because Hamas was hijacking the shipments—and then claiming ALL aid must flow through Hamas.

Hamas is bad for Palestinians.  Benyamin Netanyahu is bad for both Israelis and Palestinians equally.

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By Shenonymous, February 8, 2009 at 2:55 am Link to this comment

BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/middle_east/1654510.stm
2009/01/04 15:53:06 GMT
Thugs or Not Thugs?
Who are Hamas?

Part 1
Hamas takes its name from the Arabic initials for the Islamic Resistance Movement.

Branded a terrorist organisation by Israel, the US and the EU, it is seen by its supporters as a legitimate fighting force defending Palestinians from a brutal military occupation.

It is the largest Palestinian militant Islamist organisation, formed in 1987 at the beginning of the first intifada, or Palestinian uprising against Israel’s occupation in the West Bank and Gaza.

The group’s short-term aim has been to drive Israeli forces from the occupied territories. To achieve this it has launched attacks on Israeli troops and settlers in the Palestinian territories and against civilians in Israel.

It also has a long-term aim of establishing an Islamic state on all of historic Palestine - most of which has been contained within Israel’s borders since its creation in 1948.

For years the organisation was divided into two main spheres of operation:

0. social programmes like building schools, hospitals and religious institutions
0. militant operations carried out by Hamas’ underground Iss al-Din Qassam Brigades.
0.
But it became increasingly involved in Palestinian factional politics, both in the occupied territories and with a political branch in exile.
One of its leaders-in-exile, Khalid Meshaal, was the target of a bungled Israeli assassination attempt in Jordan in 1997.

King Hussein was outraged by Israel’s action and was only placated when Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu released Hamas’s jailed spiritual leader and founder Sheikh Ahmed Yassin.

While King Hussein tolerated Hamas’s presence, his successor King Abdullah II had the group’s headquarters closed down and senior figures expelled to Qatar.

Hamas has remained outside the main Palestinian political structure of the PLO, but it took part in - and won - Palestinian Authority (PA) legislative elections in the occupied territories in 2006.
Veto power

Hamas came to prominence after the first intifada as the main Palestinian opponent of the Oslo accords - the US-sponsored peace process that oversaw the gradual and partial removal of Israel’s occupation in return for Palestinian guarantees to protect Israeli security.

Despite numerous Israeli operations against it and clampdowns by Yasser Arafat’s Palestinian National Authority, Hamas found it had an effective power of veto over the process by launching suicide attacks.

In February and March 1996, it carried out several suicide bus bombings, killing nearly 60 Israelis, in retaliation for the assassination in December 1995 of Hamas bomb maker Yahya Ayyash.

The bombings were widely blamed for turning Israelis off the peace process and bringing about the election of right-winger Mr Netanyahu who was a staunch opponent of the Oslo accords.

In the post-Oslo world, most particularly following the failure of US President Bill Clinton’s Camp David summit in the summer of 2000 and the second intifada which followed shortly thereafter, Hamas gained power and influence as Israel steadily destroyed the infrastructure of the Palestinian Authority.

In towns and refugee camps besieged by the Israeli army, Hamas organised clinics and schools which served Palestinians who felt entirely let down by the corrupt and inefficient Palestinian Authority dominated by its secularist rival, Fatah.

The armed struggle - Many Palestinians cheered the wave of Hamas suicide attacks (and those of fellow militants Islamic Jihad and the secular al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade) in the first years of the intifada.

They saw “martyrdom” operations as the best way to avenge their own losses and counter Israel’s unchecked settlement building in the West Bank.

After the death of Fatah leader Yasser Arafat in 2004, the Palestinian Authority was taken over by Mahmoud Abbas, a vocal opponent of attacks on Israel.

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By Shenonymous, February 8, 2009 at 2:54 am Link to this comment

Thugs or Not Thugs?
Who are Hamas?
Part 2
He viewed Hamas rocket fire, the militants’ weapon of choice in recent years, as counterproductive, inflicting little damage on Israel but provoking a harsh response by the Israeli military.

When Hamas scored a landslide victory in the PA legislative elections in 2006, the stage was set for a bitter power struggle with Fatah. Hamas resisted all efforts to get it to sign up to previous agreements with Israel, as well as to recognise Israel’s legitimacy and to give up the armed struggle. It has remained steadfast to its pledge never to sign up to a permanent ceasefire while Israel occupies Palestinian territory and its troops are responsible for the deaths of Palestinians.

It offered a 10-year truce in return for a complete Israeli withdrawal from territories occupied in 1967: the West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem.

But it has not relinquished its assertion that Palestinian refugees from 1948 should be allowed to return to homes in what has become Israel, a move that threatens Israel’s very existence as a Jewish state.
Assassinations

Over the years Hamas has lost many members in Israeli assassinations and security sweeps. The paraplegic and visually impaired Sheikh Yassin was killed in a missile attack on 22 March 2004. Khaled Meshaal, now based in Syria, became the group’s overall leader. Abdul Aziz al-Rantissi emerged as Hamas leader in Gaza before he too was assassinated six weeks later on 17 April. Other prominent Hamas officials killed by the Israelis include Ismail Abu Shanab, in August 2003, and Izz al-Din Qassam Brigades leader Salah Shehada, in July 2002. Shehada’s successor, Muhammad Deif - whom Israel blames for the 1996 bombings - has escaped several attempts on his life.

More moderate political figures also emerged as significant players within the movement.

One of them was Ismail Haniya, a former aide to Sheikh Yassin, who was appointed to a “collective leadership” in the occupied territories along with the more hardline Mahmoud Zahhar and Said al-Siyam.
Facing the electorate

Hamas’s decision to stand in PA legislative council elections in 2006 was a major departure for the movement and had a profound impact on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Top figures said the move reflected Hamas’s importance in the Palestinian sphere and the need for it to address failing political structures beset by corruption, inefficiency and lost credibility.

It did not, they insisted, imply any acceptance of a two-state solution to the conflict, although Hamas opposition to the Oslo accords had kept it out of previous elections.

Aside from its much-vaunted incorruptibility, Hamas campaigned forcefully on its claim that Israel’s withdrawal from Gaza in the summer of 2005 was a victory for its commitment to armed conflict with the Israelis.

But if Hamas leaders thought its parliamentary victory would bestow greater credibility on them in the eyes of the international community - or if they thought in any way that they would be given any more leeway - they were mistaken.

The new government was subjected to tough economic and diplomatic sanctions by Israel and its allies in the West.

Skirmishes in Gaza with the Fatah-dominated PA security forces escalated to all-out war, in which the well-armed and better-disciplined Qassam Brigades eventually ousted their rivals in May 2007.

Hamas security control made Gaza a more calm and orderly place than it had been for months. But Israel tightened its blockade on the Strip and - despite a multilateral ceasefire in June 2008 - rocket fire and Israeli raids continued to provide provocations for more violence by each side.

And on the diplomatic level, the Palestinians faced their biggest set-back for decades.

With Hamas in charge of Gaza and the pro-Fatah PA operating in the West Bank (and neither side engaging properly with the other) the aspiration of an independent Palestinian seemed further away than ever.

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By cyrena, February 8, 2009 at 2:33 am Link to this comment

1 of 3
By Inherit The Wind, February 7 at 10:17 pm #
Flash! Proof that Hamas is NOT the savior of the Palestinians nor are they anything but the thugs we say they are, who use their people as pawns and shields and don’t give a rat’s ass about their people.
The Associated Press reported today that the UN agency for Palestinian relief has ceased all shipments of aid supplies to Gaza because Hamas has stolen not one, but TWO shipments intended for the suffering people.
Not Israel. Not the US. Not American allies, but the UN’s special agency for Palestinian relief.

~*~*
ITW,

You didn’t provide a link, though it was easy enough to find. (There were SEVERAL references to this same story -  none of them quite satisfactory to my academic skepticism, so I chose the least of the evils, which is a piece in The Guardian. )

And, me being the propaganda detector that I am; I kinda smell a rat or worse. I don’t want to make any particular conclusions one way or the other, until we could get maybe an actual statement directly from an UNRWA Official – name, direct quotes, all of that. I couldn’t find anything now.

This has the same ‘flavor’ as the story that Sepharad just brought to my attention on the other thread about not caring about civilian deaths. She wrote that she’d read that the International Committee for the Red Cross (ICRC) had reported to the Assoc. Press that the IDF’s use of white phosphorous on the Gazans in the latest slaughter was NOT illegal.

Right away, something smelled ‘fishy’ because I know (just because I’m supposed to) that the ICRC NEVER reports directly to any public venue on any of their findings. It’s just always been their policy, and there’s been only one exception, which was their investigation and subsequent report/recommendation on the conditions and circumstances of Guantanamo. They were APPALLED, and so they did go public that time.

So, it didn’t ‘sound’ right, and I decided to check it out. Sure enough, by going directly to the source, which is the ICRC official website, I got to an interview with the Chief Official, Peter Herby, head of the ICRC’s Arms Unit, who said this among other things,

Q. - Does the ICRC consider white phosphorous weapons as they have been used in Gaza to be legal under international humanitarian law?

A. - If ICRC delegates in the field gather credible and precise evidence of violations, or if ICRC medical personnel corroborate reports by others, the ICRC would begin by discussing this with the party concerned – rather than speaking publicly – in keeping with our standard practices. We have not commented publicly on the legality of the current use of phosphorous weapons by Israel, contrary to what has been attributed to us in recent media reports.

http://www.icrc.org/Web/Eng/siteeng0.nsf/html/weapons-interview-170109

Note the last sentence, “We have not commented publicy on the legality of the current use of phosphorous weapons by Israel, CONTRARY TO WHAT HAS BEEN ATTRIBUTED TO US IN RECENT MEDIA REPORTS. “

Ten years ago, I wouldn’t have noted this, in part because I wouldn’t have been paying any attention to this issue anyway. (Just too busy with other stuff). But, it’s also because even then, there was still a measure of professional ethics in journalism.

Reporters didn’t just make shit up, and they were expected to back up their information from independent sources, and NAME them. And folks didn’t just make shit up, and post it in the newpaper or on line. (well, OK not as much, and of course it depended on the publication). So, the average citizen was likely to take it at face value.

TBC

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By cyrena, February 8, 2009 at 2:30 am Link to this comment

2 of 3
But not anymore. In fact, thanks to the Thug regime and all of their neocon gangster associates, I now have a whole new career devoted to unraveling spin and propaganda. It comes in several varieties, and not all of it is maliciously intended, since sometimes it’s just plain ignorance. But, most of the time there’s definitely a ‘purposeful message’ and some are so intricate and complex, that it can be pretty amazing.  (and scary, once the depth of the intentional misrepresentations become evident).
This is just one example, and a relatively simple one. Somebody lied on the ICRC, and the official corrected it. But, how many people would be inclined to follow it through enough to track down the information from the horses mouth, to find out that the ICRC in fact had NOT made such a claim or offical opinion in this matter? Well, most folks wouldn’t. So, the average person believes the lie, for lack of anything else to counter it.

Always remember, Mr. Lie can get half way around the world before Ms. Truth get’s her moccasins on. Of course once she does, and manage to catch up with him, she’ll use her weapon “The Truth” to whack his brains out. And then, all will be well.

Anyway, in reference to Hamas stealing food, I’m not gonna say that DIDN’T, because maybe this is so. HOWEVER, in the article from The Guardian, (not the best of sources these days either, but still the best choice I had) they make some reference to the Hamas people from the SOCIAL MINISTRY as being the ones who ‘took the food away’.

“..In a statement, the agency said 10 truckloads of flour and rice delivered into Gaza yesterday were taken away by trucks affiliated with the Hamas-run social affairs ministry. Earlier this week, Hamas police took away thousands of blankets and food parcels meant for needy residents…”

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/06/gaza-un-aid-hamas

(I tried to find a copy of the ‘statement’ but I couldn’t. They don’t reference it or the names of the officials, which is what they DID do when UNRWA stopped the operations after some aid workers were killed and injured by Israeli ground fire).

Anyway, I said all of that say that because of the general history of the Hamas organization, which, like Hezbollah has always had at it’s base a SOCIAL MINISTRY, (we have ‘em here too, but we call ‘em churches and non-profits, and they don’t generally have an armed wing) which has ALWAYS DONE this distribution themselves, at least when they’ve had the stuff to provide and distribute. The UN Agency itself has never had a staff large enough to do ALL of the distribution, even of the supplies that they provide. But keep in mind that because of the 18 month blockade by Israel, any supplies that have made it in at all, have been via the Agency or those tunnels everybody keeps whining about. And it’s the ‘norm’ for Hamas (as well as Hezbollah in Lebanon) to have these social ministries do this work. That’s how they made such an appeal to the population. The old secular government was corrupt and the people weren’t getting ANY of their supplies. The suffering has been enormous.

So, that makes me ‘question’ with some skepticism, the idea of them showing up and supposedly ‘stealing’ a bunch of food and blankets meant for the ‘needy’. My assumption is that’s who they planned to GIVE IT TO when they intercepted it!  It’s not like they don’t know how desperately the population needs it. And, they ALL need it.

Now that’s just another possible explanation, but since they didn’t claim that Hamas held up their trucks at gun point, I’m thinking there could be a simpler explanation for this. Like, Hamas decided to distribute the supplies, and it got politically twisted into them ‘stealing them’, despite the fact that they are the elected government of the people there, and are capable of getting the supplies out themselves.

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By cyrena, February 8, 2009 at 2:27 am Link to this comment

3 of 3

And, quiet as it’s kept, wink I don’t believe Hamas to be the ‘thugs’ you guys say they are.

Brewerstroupe has come up with some excellent scholarship that proves otherwise,  (I’ll find the links) but I’ve always known better, just because I’ve studied these groups pretty intensively in the past 8 years, and I’ve been on the ground in the Occupied Territories a few times myself – mostly to do academic work. Several of my colleagues have devoted quite a bit of time to it as well.

So I see Hamas as they’ve developed and BEEN developed by the political circumstances in the region. These are not ‘old’ organizations or political movements. Hamas has only been in existence since 1987, and nearly ALL of them were imprisoned for years, (several hundred still are) until they won the elections in 2006. They also aren’t stupid, or thugs. They’ve got hundreds of PhD holders in their midst, (over 500) and from across the professional spectrum of engineers, scientists, scholars, professional bureaucrats, and superior POLITICAL organization. We know that they have no ‘real’ weapons, and so the biggest complaint you can really make against the leadership is their failure to keep the militant faction in order.

I might add that they DID keep the militant faction in order, for the duration of the original agreement, until ISRAEL broke the truce on Nov. 4th, 2008, when they killed 6 Palestinians on the Gaza side. Those are just the facts, regardless of how we see them spun.

Now there has been sporadic (and still ineffective) fire from whomever these ‘militants’ are, (or so we ‘hear/read’  and of course Israel continues to retaliate disproportionately. But at the end of the day, (this day) Israel has STILL refused to open the crossings that they so desperately need to have open, and that was of course the Israeli broken agreement, THIS TIME.

This isn’t rocket science or even complex political science. Israel has a history of reneging on every agreement, and they’ve been collectively punishing the Palestinians for 3 years now, just because they elected Hamas. That punishment has included nearly 2 years of a total blockade of survival supplies..stuff that legally belongs to the Palestinians, based on resolution whatever. (just because there have been so damn many.)

Let me add as well, that the special rappateur to the conflict is Richard Falk, who was unanimously elected by the UN Human Rights Commission, specifically because of his qualifications. (Princeton emeritus, Prof of International Law and specialist on Human Rights and Humanitarian Law). He’s an American Jew, and when he traveled to Israel (just before the onset of the last slaughter) to address the horrors of the blockade and attempt to work something out, the Israelis detained him at the airport, ruffed him and his luggage up, interrogated him, and then expelled him…as the DESIGNATED UN Special Rapporteur. They probably called him a “Hamas Sympathizer” too.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/17/richard-falk-un-rights-en_n_151772.html?show_comment_id=18886479

http://www.infolive.tv/en/infolive.tv-35064-israelnews-un-envoy-barred-entering-israel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkF1XxdXQFc

I’ve had the privilege of studying with Prof Falk for the past 4 years, and the man is brilliant as well as compassionate and fair. His scholarship is extensive and impeccable, and he KNOWS international law..probably better than most US scholars. That said, the right radical wing-nuts have him on their list of the 100 most dangerous professors.

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By Inherit The Wind, February 7, 2009 at 11:17 pm Link to this comment

Flash! Proof that Hamas is NOT the savior of the Palestinians nor are they anything but the thugs we say they are, who use their people as pawns and shields and don’t give a rat’s ass about their people.

The Associated Press reported today that the UN agency for Palestinian relief has ceased all shipments of aid supplies to Gaza because Hamas has stolen not one, but TWO shipments intended for the suffering people.

Not Israel. Not the US. Not American allies, but the UN’s special agency for Palestinian relief.

In other bad news, Benyamin Netanyahu looks poised to be the next Israeli PM.  I see this as disastrous and potentially catastrophic for both the Israeli and Palestinian peoples.

So you have the totally irresponsible and unanswerable Hamas on one side, and the nutty religious Right about to take over on the other side.  It’s depressingly difficult to see how peace can be achieved when BOTH peoples vote for the worst possible leaders.

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By Shenonymous, February 7, 2009 at 10:24 am Link to this comment

By the way:
NYT:  Feb. 7.  JERUSALEM — Israeli officials said on Friday that they had deported most of the activists on a Gaza-bound cargo ship with humanitarian aid intercepted a day earlier by the Israeli Navy. The officials said Israel had sent on to Gaza 1,000 units of donated blood found aboard.

A military official said that some 15 of the people on board the ship were either Lebanese or Syrian and had been driven to Israel’s border areas with those two countries on Thursday night and sent across. The handful of remaining activists, citizens of European countries, were to be deported soon, the official said.

Peter Lerner, a spokesman for the military’s civil affairs department, said that apart from 1,000 liters of blood that had already been sent to Gaza, there were toys, food and medicine that would be handed over to a charity group and sent to Gaza on Sunday or Monday. 

Of course, the supplies will have to be guarded so that Hamas doesn’t steal it all from the desperate Palestinian people.

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By Robert, February 7, 2009 at 6:37 am Link to this comment

Weekend Edition
February 6-8, 2009

No More Charades, Please!

Obama, Mitchell and the Palestinians

By JAMES ABOUREZK

“Abe Foxman, head of the “Anti-Defamation League”, claims that George Mitchell is too fair to be a broker between Israel and the Palestinians.  I guess that Foxman, in denouncing the choice of Mitchell for Middle East negotiator, shows that he is accustomed to such impartial mediators as Dennis Ross, who, when he left the Clinton Administration returned to the Israeli Lobby, whence he came.  Or he possibly could be making a comparison between George Mitchell and Alan Dershowitz, the notorious Israeli propagandist.  (I once called Dershowitz a “snake” on Al Manar TV, which prompted him to write a column in the Jerusalem Post calling me an anti-Semite.  My mistake was to forget to apologize to the snakes.)

I’m sorry to say that, as much as I admire George Mitchell for the public service he has provided over the years, being fair will not be enough to end the Israeli occupation of Palestine and the brutality that accompanies it.

The gyrations of various administrations over the years, all of whom have put on great shows of “settling” the conflict, has done nothing but waste a great deal of newspaper ink and television time reporting peace efforts, as though the media believed what snake oil salespeople, such as Condi Rice, were selling to the public.  What someone in our government should have realized by now is that Israel absolutely does not want to give up the West Bank for a Palestinian state, even though there are warnings that if a “two state solution” is not reached, the Palestinians will be forced into a state of apartheid for the rest of the century.  Certainly, the Israelis have no intention of allowing the Palestinians to outvote them in Israel, which leaves South African style apartheid as the only solution.

One can count all the reasons given by the Israelis for not achieving the “peace” that Israel claims it wants, reasons such as:

      1. We have no negotiating partner.
      2. The Palestinians have to recognize Israel’s right to exist first before we talk to them.
      3. They have to end terrorism first.
      4. We made the Palestinians the best offer they could ever have gotten, but they turned it down.

These are just some of the shopworn excuses trotted out to avoid cutting a deal.

It seems that very few people have caught on to this scam, even though it has been exposed for many years.  So, as the establishment continues to blather about achieving “peace,” Israel continues to swallow up Palestinian lands, beating up, imprisoning and massacring Palestinians on a daily basis.

It is very clear to me, as well as to anyone else who declines to see the conflict through an Israeli prism, that only when an American President flatly tells the Israelis that they must move the settlers out of the West Bank, there will be no peace, only more occupation, more brutality, more violations of international law, and more bloody slaughters of civilians such as the one we only recently witnessed in Gaza.  Anything short of that leaves the Israelis in complete control, and it will leave America with more and more enemies not only in the Middle East, but around the world.”

http://www.counterpunch.org/abourezk02062009.html

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By Shenonymous, February 7, 2009 at 4:33 am Link to this comment

Ramsey Clark has been running for political office since 1974 and has never won an election.  One has to wonder why with a loud voice?  There must be some serious character flaw if in 35 years of attempts he has never won an election.  Seems like if anyone who has spent his time advocating an end to all war (which I think is a venerable goal), and an end to racism (which I think is a consecrated goal) that he could be electable for something.  Curious. 

Significantly, it could be because Clark founded the International Action Center (IAC) that holds fundamental overlapping membership with the Workers’ World Party (WWP), a pro-Soviet communist party that split with the Socialist Workers Party in 1958 because of differences that included an affirmation of Mao’s Chinese Revolution (which is now all but completely defunct because it failed miserably in China), and their support of the Soviet invasion of Hungary in 1956.  Well the WWP’s slogan is to “Support The Struggles Of All Oppressed Peoples” which sounds like a grand slogan that repeatedly emerges from the TD forums by a particular group of individuals.

It is not the fact that oppression ought not to be destroyed, but how that destruction is gone about.  One does not destroy the greatest country in the world in the name of annihilating oppression.  That is precisely what the exterminators of American freedoms wish to do.  For if they do not, then they must say what exactly is to be done to preserve it.  But they do not do that, they merely call for its destruction.

You must not give up your freedom so readily as if it is impossible.  sorting out the truth is often a labyrinthine exercise.  You must fight being fooled.

Fighting oppression is a noble cause, but one must be careful not to mix it up with other ignoble causes which is often the case with zealots who would attempt to destroy the freedoms that are uniquely American.  The WWP would trade American freedoms for Soviet totalitarianism. 

I do not think, nor do I think many Americans do though I do not have any statistics (but then neither do those who would disagree with me), that we have to support everything America does, right or wrong, as the saying goes.  But and that is a huge qualifying but, the freedoms that are held so dear by not only most Americans (again no statistics only a calculated guess) but also held sacred by millions upon millions of people attempting to become American citizens due to the worst kind of oppression found in the world gives witness to the absolute value of those freedoms.  One does not trade one set of sacrosanct freedoms for the surreptitious enthrallment of communism or other forms of totalitarianism.  Many groups of clandestine oppression parade themselves as champions of subjugated.  That is exactly how the Soviet and Mao’s brand of communism in appropriated those countries.  It is not paranoia to caution Americans to be vigilant that their hallowed freedoms are not whittled away by sloganisms that sound good but would in the end destroy this country.  Oppression must be fought with justice as the substrate. 

I am not asking that you “simply” believe me.  I am only asking that you ask yourself some critical questions. 

Also watch, those of you who are conscious, the din that will now rise to cover what I say.

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By Robert, February 6, 2009 at 10:40 pm Link to this comment

Former US justice secretary: Israeli war on Gaza genocide

February 6, 2009

‘BEIRUT, (PIC)—Former US secretary of justice Ramsey Clark has accused Israel of waging a war of genocide against the Gaza Strip and of killing women, children and old people without any differentiation.

Clark, in an interview with the Lebanese weekly ‘Al-Kifah Al-Arabi’, called for documenting the Israeli war crimes and for demanding the prosecution of Israeli war criminals at international courts.

He said that the USA should be also brought to trial for war crimes in Vietnam, Cuba, Nicaragua, Iraq, Palestine and Lebanon and for crimes against humanity.

Clark described the agreement signed by former US secretary of state Condoleezza Rice with Israeli foreign minister Tzipi Livni to combat smuggling of weapons to Hamas in Gaza as “illegitimate”, adding that rather Israel should be the one banned from acquiring arms.”

http://www.palestinianmothers.com/profiles/blogs/former-us-justice-secretary

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By Shenonymous, February 6, 2009 at 10:14 pm Link to this comment

Do we always have to say things at least twice for you Robert before you are able to understand what has been said?

You and I care equally about each other.  This means, to the degree you care about me, I care about you and vice versa.  Get it.  I don’t care in the least about you.  So it looks like there is no problemo.

Begin lived to a ripe old age of 78 regardless of the wanted poster.  And Shamir lived to be 93 years old.  Begin’s was the government that promoted the construction of Israeli settlements in the Israeli-occupied territories.  Shamir once remarked that “neither Jewish ethics nor Jewish tradition can disqualify terrorism as a means of combat.  We learn something new everyday.  Seems like terrorism is a way of life in the Arab/Israeli zone.  Seems like a whole new dialogue needs started about this.

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By Robert, February 6, 2009 at 9:44 pm Link to this comment

Deceptive Sheeno…I don’t care about how you feel about me…at all. That is not my problem, its yours.

++++++++++++++++++++++

Wanted Poster of the Palestine Police offering rewards for the capture of the Stern Gang terrorists:

Two of these Zionist terrorist became prime ministers

of Israel.

Menachem Begin & Yitzhak Shamir.


http://www.palestineremembered.com/images/IsraeliJewishTerroristsWanted.html#Comment

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By Shenonymous, February 6, 2009 at 8:45 pm Link to this comment

Unstable I am not, Robert, dishonest I am not, Robert, deceptive, I am!  i count myself among all the other deceptives on this website.  You and I care equally about each other.  I predicted Netanyahu will win in February way back on January 31.  Hamas can be said to be blamed for his reascendency to the head of Israel.  With his election, I said the Paelstinian ballgame will be over and Hamas can go sit on its collective thumb.  That is too bad for the Palestinian people who will be kept from entering the 21st century once again by their terrorist godfathers.

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By Shenonymous, February 6, 2009 at 7:04 pm Link to this comment

People from other countries chime in:
Aljazeera.net
UPDATED ON:
FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 06, 2009
07:02 MECCA TIME, 04:02 GMT
NEWS MIDDLE EAST
Israel Expels Gaza Aid Ship Crew
Comment by miguel from Mexico on 06/02/2009 regarding the aid ship: 
Israel is within its rights to police its waters up to twelve miles from the coast. Until Palestine becomes a state the Gaza coast is still part of Israel.

Things get grayed out when the truth is not liked.

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By Robert, February 6, 2009 at 5:47 pm Link to this comment

The Nightmare of Netanyahu Returns

This is the man calling for the re-occupation of Gaza to ‘liquidate’ its elected government

By Johann Hari

“February 06, 2009 “The Independent”——Israel is about to make a misjudgement as disastrous - and deadly - as the attack on Gaza. In a few days, it looks as if it could elect Benjamin Netanyahu as prime minister once again.

This is a man calling for the violent re-occupation of Gaza to “liquidate” its elected government. This is a man who says he will “naturally grow” the West Bank settlements. This is a man who says he will “never” negotiate over Jerusalem, or the Golan Heights, or control of the West Bank water supply.

This is a man who says establishing a Palestinian state would leave Israel with, “an existential threat and a public relations nightmare reminiscent of 1938 Czechoslovakia”. This is a man who Yitzhak Rabin’s widow said helped create a climate of hate that led to his murder.

The political beneficiaries of Operation Cast Lead have been Israel’s hard-right. The opinion poll numbers have surged for Netanyahu’s Likud and for the even more extreme Avigdor Lieberman. They say the only problem with the 23-day bombing of Gaza - killing 410 children, and hugely strengthening support for Hamas - is that it did not go far enough. The world urgently needs to look at these individuals - and ask how this came to pass.

The key to understanding Netanyahu lies with his father, Benzion. He is a distinguished scholar of medieval history who believes the world is eternally and ineradicably riddled with genocidal anti-Semitism. When he arrived in British Mandate Palestine, he declared that the majority of Jews there were naïve and idealistic. They had to immediately seize the entire Biblical land of Israel - taking all of the West Bank and stretching right into present-day Jordan. There could be no compromise, ever, with the Arabs, who only understand force. The man he calls his mentor, Abba Ahimeir, described himself proudly as “a fascist”.

Today, Benzion’s son routinely compares dealing with the Palestinians to dealing with the Nazis. He can only understand their anger as a resurfacing of Europe’s irrational, murderous hate. He insists they have no right to a share of the land because they “stole” it - in 636AD. Accordingly, Netanyahu rubbishes every peace initiative offered by Israel. His reaction to Yitzhak Rabin’s decision to sign the mild and moderate Oslo accords with Yasser Arafat reveals the depth of his opposition to compromise. He warmly addressed crowds that chanted “Rabin is a Nazi” and “through blood and fire, Rabin shall expire”. He called the former prime minister “a traitor”, shortly before Rabin was murdered by a Jewish fundamentalist who agreed.

The other person who has surged ahead in the polls - and looks likely to be Netanyahu’s coalition partner - is Avigdor Lieberman, a Russian ex-nightclub bouncer who says the model for dealing with the Palestinians should be Vladimir Putin’s 1990s bombardment of Chechnya, which caused the death of a third of the entire population. He wants the political parties elected by Israeli Arabs to be criminalised, snapping that they should be dealt with “like Hamas”.”

http://informationclearinghouse.info/article21919.htm

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By PatrickHenry, February 6, 2009 at 3:25 pm Link to this comment

Hamas is taking the food and medicine as well as Israel.

http://uruknet.info/?p=m51522&hd;=&size=1&l=e

I could give a rats ass about Hamas, they are merely the excuse Israel needs to gain more land or render the land around Israel uninhabitable.  Just a neighborhood bully always trying to pick a fight. 

I do give a damn about the PNAC crowd, pre 911 to present and the Israel connection to them.  There is alot there.

The crimes committed by Bush and his government need to be investigated, prosecuted and judged by the people.

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By Shenonymous, February 6, 2009 at 2:43 pm Link to this comment

There were no Palestinian fighters in the vicinity. Only because there never were any Palestinian fighters, they were Hamas (the militant terrorists who call themselves Palestinians)

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By Robert, February 6, 2009 at 12:54 pm Link to this comment

Friday, February 06, 2009

ISRAELI ‘HUMAN SHIELD’ STORIES PART OF MASSIVE PROPAGANDA CAMPAIGN TO COVER THE DELIBERATE KILLING OF GAZAN CIVILIANS.

“The stories now emerging out of the Gaza less than three weeks after the Israeli ground withdrawal suggest that rather than Palestinian fighters using civilians as human shields, it has been Israeli soldiers that have been deliberately, callously and indiscriminately shooting to death surrendered civilians, including very young children, in situations and circumstances where no Palestinian fighters have been in the vicinity.

Barbara Lubin of the Middle East Children’s Alliance writes:

“Out of all the devastation I have seen so far, there is one story in particular that I think the world needs to hear. I met a mother who was at home with her ten children when Israeli soldiers entered the house. The soldiers told her she had to choose five of her children to “give as a gift to Israel.” As she screamed in horror they repeated the demand and told her she could choose or they would choose for her. Then these soldiers murdered five of her children in front of her. The concept of “Jewish morality” is truly dead. We can be fascists, terrorists, and Nazis just like everybody else.

There were no Palestinian fighters in the vicinity.

Sameh Habeeb and Janet Zimmerman tell the story of how a Palestinian who, with his family and others, had surrendered as Israeli tanks parked near their home. He was then forced to witness his wife, mother and his three daughters aged seven, three and two, all holding white flags, shot and killed by an Israeli soldier in front of him.

There were no Palestinian fighters in the vicinity.

Then there is the case of the Palestinian doctor who lost three of his daughters and a niece when an Israeli tank shelled his apartment for no apparent reason.

There were no Palestinian fighters in the vicinity.

One also has to wonder why the mainstream media find it so important to tell the world that the Israelis didn’t actually hit a UN school. Oh… the 43 civilians that were killed just outside of the school, however, are still dead but the important thing, apparently, is that the school wasn’t actually hit.

The fact that there were no Palestinian fighters in the vicinity also seemed to escape the notice of, in this case, the Murdoch press.

No doubt as time goes by there will be many more stories emerging of Israeli atrocities committed against Palestinian citizens in the Gaza.

So far, however, despite all the accusations from the Israelis, not a skerrick of evidence has been found to support their accusations that Palestinian fighters used ‘human shields’.”

http://lataan.blogspot.com/2009/02/israeli-human-shield-stories-part-of.html

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By OzarkMichael, February 6, 2009 at 11:28 am Link to this comment

Now Hamas is starving Gaza. Hamas will not give food to all the children, but only to their own terrorist thugs. Because of this the UN wont ship any more food there. So Palestinian children are hungry tonight. And might starve next week. Thanks to Hamas.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090206/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians

Speak up for the people of Gaza!

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By OzarkMichael, February 6, 2009 at 11:14 am Link to this comment

PatrickHenry links to a definition of ‘blather’. Include ‘blarney’ too if you like since I have been known to do that sometimes.

But it isnt blather if it holds up.

So PatrickHenry has my attention now. As if he is actually going to do something. If this is blather, you should have no trouble answering it:

per OzarkMichael and i address this to PatrickHenry: But If Hamas will recognize Israel and wants a permanent peace, then I shall concede the argument to you. If Hamas does not want to recognize Israel and does not want a permanent peace with Israel, then you must concede the argument.

Those of you who complain about bottom feeders, fascists, slime, etc etc. oh and add blather to the list please! This is your chance to be rid of me.

Sound good? Will anyone accept the challenge?

Come PatrickHenry, I take your insult with no hard feelings. Because you could be the one who could show me i am wrong. I will speak for Gaza if you could show me wrong. So give it a try.

If not, I do have room for another trophy. Not only Hamas, but good old PatrickHenry. Right next to Le Femme Fadel.

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By Robert, February 6, 2009 at 8:06 am Link to this comment

sheenon—I really don’t give a damn about what you choose to “say” about yourself or anything else.

Like I said previously, your are dishonest, deceptive and unstable!

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By Shenonymous, February 6, 2009 at 5:57 am Link to this comment

Good morning,
Since none of the pro-Hamas commenters have ventured an answer to my question about the Arab empire, I will provide an answer.
If you are honest in wanting to know the truth (the opposite of trooth) you might read the article at:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/18/weekinreview/18worth.html
From a much longer article, here is one comment found in the revealing article.
On January 17, Robert F. Worth NTY wrote about the Arab empire.
“Why the Arabs Splinter Over Gaza
Most Arab regimes are terrified of Islamist movements like Hamas, which represent the greatest threat to their legitimacy. Many, including Egypt and Jordan, face challenges at home from their own popular versions of the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas’s ideological parent. Most Arab leaders are also reluctant to provoke the United States and Israel (with which Egypt and Jordan have peace treaties).”

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By PatrickHenry, February 6, 2009 at 4:30 am Link to this comment

By OzarkMichael, February 5 at 11:13 am #

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/blather


By Shenonymous, February 5 at 10:19 pm #

http://beyondthepale.org/

Fortunately not all American jews have lost their free will as the ADL would have you believe.

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By Shenonymous, February 5, 2009 at 11:19 pm Link to this comment

Too bad Robert.  I have often said things are not always what they seem.  If you check, you will be able to find how many times I have said that and what other claims I’ve made of what I do.  I too keep a complete copy of every forum on which I have participated.  I know exactly what I said and to whom.  It doesn’t matter what you find or think at this point.  Except for who and what I am, everything I’ve said on every forum stands.  Your problem Robert is to stop writhing and answer the questions posed not only by me.  Or skedaddle like your friends have.

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By Inherit The Wind, February 5, 2009 at 9:37 pm Link to this comment

Robert, February 5 at 7:12 pm #

WHEN ONE TELLS THE TRUTH, ONE DOESN’T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT WHAT WAS SAID.
*******************************************

How would you know? The Truth is to you as comprehensible as music to the tone-deaf, or light to one blind from birth.

Let Shenonymous explain it.  You went back a full year in posts I see.  At least you are diligent.

Why now call her a bunch of filthy names? That’s your usual M.O.

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By Robert, February 5, 2009 at 8:12 pm Link to this comment

WHEN ONE TELLS THE TRUTH, ONE DOESN’T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT WHAT WAS SAID.

******************


By Shenonymous, February 5 at 9:30 am #

My boss is laughing his head off Robert (and so is my team.  A Dr. of Art History I am not, but no matter it is as good a moniker as any.  I could not hope for more.  I do know a bit about art.

===============================


By Shenonymous, November 1, 2008 at 9:30 pm #

“ITW,  If you have an advanced degree, then bravo, and if you had one art history class, then you should have at least learned that personal preferences in art is not the same as understanding the value of art beyond personal taste.  Guess it would depend on the quality and content of the art history class.  My Ph.D. is in Art History!  Masters in Aesthetics/Art Criticism and a Masters in Fine Art and taught at a university for ten years.”

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By Shenonymous, February 5, 2009 at 3:58 pm Link to this comment

We three (me, myself, and I) laugh with you OzarkMichael.  Yes I noticed the hasty exits (maybe better called retreats).  Not bad for the two-gun Constitutional Tessie as she blows the smoke away from her regularly shot pistolas.  But it is even more hilarious to see the head of Le Femme mounted. 

Now if the real men would stand up with OM!  Hahahahahahahaha I have to laugh as there has only been a couple who could qualify.  The healing power of laughter is truly an amazing thing.

It has not gone unnoticed that none of my innocent questions were able to be answered either.

Agreement, or disagreement, can happen among civilized human beings without being vicious.  Problem is:  one must not awaken a sleeping Dragon. 

Maani has always been respectful and even though he and I have disagreed sometimes fiercely even, in the past, he has never resorted to petty fascistic disaffected name-calling.  And I, I have never found it necessary to say a vicious word to or about him.  His faith has always been authentic.  I hope my compliment doesn’t taint you Maani.  Be careful.  That was a most revealing NYT article.

Let me leave you (for the moment, ahem) with this thought from Thoreau that always makes me laugh:  “If anything ail a man, so that he does not perform his functions, if he have a pain in his bowels even—for that is the seat of sympathy—he forthwith sets about reforming the world.”

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By CHAMISA, February 5, 2009 at 1:10 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

There really ought to be a limit as to the length and the number of posts
offered on TD to control the sort of takeover - as is now the case - by a few self-appointed, self-serving dilettante pundits who dominate the issue more than the facts.  Those of us on the sidelines who check occasionally, are subjected to more of the same inane bickering,
which in some cases has degenerated to an intense personal animosity that degrades the purpose of the forum.  I believe you
know who you are.  Once you’ve expressed your point of view, please spare the rest of us further doses of the copious verbal flatulence you’ve been exposing others to.

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By OzarkMichael, February 5, 2009 at 12:13 pm Link to this comment

per shenonymous: Human males are preoccupied with displays of strength that indicate their genetic suitability. Hence the mark of a successful fisherman or hunter is not a full stomach, but a huge stuffed fish or a mounted rack of antlers.

The masculine, confronted by its foibles, must show its manly strength and objectivity… not by throwing a fit or running away or hiding behind someone else, but by… good humor.

I would like to respond to the lady Shenonymous, and i will do so in the correct way for a human male, not in the way of Le Femme Fadel or Messenger Robert. I am giving you guys some really good advice here.

The masculine way to respond is to laugh at oneself, which has the advantage of earning a little more indulgence from the females. Dont you know that the masculine thrives only with the indulgence from the feminine? If we can get them to laugh at us, the masculine survives the encounter without having to change at all. It is even possible to recover from past offenses by doing this. 

So in that spirit i respond to Shenonymous this way(watch this Robert and learn something):

Shenonymous, maybe you are right. Let me show you a few trophies. Look at this forum. Here is my trophy of Le Femme Fadel, who i was able to collapse with just one post. Here is my trophy of Hamas, which i finished off with my latest challenge and no one could lift a finger against me.

Shenonymous, I like how you have collected a trophy or two of your own. For example, you have Robert posting links which catalogue threats, intimidation, and violence being done against Jews. Which was your point all along. I have to admit that was well done!

By the way, thats a nice rack you got there.

Hmmm. wait.

I was talking about how you captured and stuffed Robert.

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By Robert, February 5, 2009 at 11:52 am Link to this comment

Sheeno…calm and collected you are NOT! You have failed to leave that impression on this thread.

Dishonest, deceptive, bigot, unstable, sneaky, paranoid…etc…that is the impression(s) that your ranting has reflected.

Its time for me to exit this thread. I’ll leave you with ozark & maani…

TTFN

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By Shenonymous, February 5, 2009 at 10:30 am Link to this comment

My boss is laughing his head off Robert (and so is my team.  A Dr. of Art History I am not, but no matter it is as good a moniker as any.  I could not hope for more.  I do know a bit about art.  Didn’t you ever have to take an art history course?  Oh yeah, you never went to college, right?

We project our own aggressive impulses onto that which we perceive to be an enemy even if that individual or group is innocent.  And if the perceived adversay does have a history of animosity toward the fanatics organization, there would be no opportunity for peacemaking as the fanatic cannot see any way to that state.

Those people for whom hostility is a major issue may tend to imagine it in say, Jews, as is found on this forum, and project their aggressive impulses onto Jews or others that are unlike themselves, say Christians, or Democrats, Republicans, Americans, in this case since we are here dealing the fanatic.

Human males are preoccupied with displays of strength that indicate their genetic suitability. Hence the mark of a successful fisherman or hunter is not a full stomach, but a huge stuffed fish or a mounted rack of antlers. Domination plays a key role in the fanatic’s mind in an attempt to immobilize the perceived enemy. These displays of dominance are intended, however unconsciously, to impress available competing males and occasionally females, but mainly it is for the powers of the group to which they have given their souls.

I really do have to go now but I will look forward to more of your condemnations a bit later.

Do notice who is calm and collected and who is not, Robert.

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By Robert, February 5, 2009 at 9:39 am Link to this comment

Yes Sheenon…student shoes may also have to be removed from entering your art history class…perhaps!

With your current state of mind who knows what will happen…unpredictable…but do keep an eye on those students.

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By Shenonymous, February 5, 2009 at 9:39 am Link to this comment

The deranged have trouble with complex thought. Like normal children of about the age of 3 or so, they tend to categorize their world in terms of extremes: good vs. bad; us vs. them; clean vs. dirty; black vs. white. More maturity is required to perceive shades of gray. Nevertheless, “us vs. them” thinking is evident in their adulthood, where it can be exploited by politicians and religious clerics, etc.  Differences between humans and other animals may seem to overwhelm similarities and confine them to a category distinct from our own normal states. This sort of thinking leads to the use of prejudice (e.g., Jew, Negro, etc.,), rather than morally relevant criteria, as a basis for ethical decisions. Basing some conclusions from that psychological state, let me in the next post or so give you some insight into the fanatics mind.

The first stage of the fanatical mind is to call names, i.e., dingbat, loony, Jew-lover, Islamophobe.  After that the tendency to locate the shaping forces of their existence outside their own limited thoughts, unavoidably relates successes and failures with the way things are in the detestable environment seen as created by the enemy.  The enemy, of course, has been indoctrinated from an early age, or comes about through something seen as a personal attack on them later on in life, usually in the late teens or early 20s.  The enemy is often linked with others who may or may not be of similar background, and may even hold contrary beliefs.

Next time more about the development of the fanatic.  Must be off to work now.  Some of us hold full-time jobs.

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By Shenonymous, February 5, 2009 at 9:18 am Link to this comment

Shoes will soon have to be removed before entering any public forum just like it is required at airports.  That is such a laugh riot.  That semi-violent gesture is only symptomatic of the frustrated mind that cannot find peaceful ways to express their discontent.  It is a classic psychological behavior like thowing stones by the frustrated child. 

Poor Robert, you are babbling more and more as the truth gets nearer and nearer to what you really are.  Reduced to name-calling too like the others in your deranged cotillion.  It is a sad thing to watch.

Rats, snakes, and insects are viewed by some as vessels of infectious evil. Even though humans spread disease much more commonly than do rats, negative fantasies about animals and people tend to exaggerate relevant characteristics and lead to actions against them.  Are you fantasizing about non-Muslim insects and rodents, Robert?  Yes, do keep up your attempts to muzzle the truth.  You provide a vivid portrait of those who would silence freedom of speech, albeit your growing incoherence.

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By Robert, February 5, 2009 at 9:01 am Link to this comment

Loony “Sheenon”...Your dishonesty & your several mental disorders have been exposed. They have now been pinned to your behind for all to see. Your nerves are shattered and those mood swings are noticeable. Get the shrink to increase the dosage… no cure, but improves nerves control.

BTW, if you are using company time/work time to post none work related propaganda, then your paranoia/schizophrenia/Bi-Polar disorder has flared up!

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By Robert, February 5, 2009 at 8:43 am Link to this comment

Irish Civil Society Calls For Boycott of Israel

By Pulse

February, 04, 09 - “Pulse” - The following letter was published in a full-page advertisement in The Irish Times on 31 January 2009:

The original ad, including signatures may be downloaded here. [PDF]

  “Israel’s bombardment of Gaza killed over 1,300 Palestinians, a third of them children. Thousands have been wounded. Many victims had been taking refuge in clearly marked UN facilities.

  This assault came in the wake of years of economic blockade by Israel. This blockade, which is illegal under international humanitarian law, has destroyed the Gaza economy and condemned its population to poverty. According to a World Bank report last September, “98 percent of Gaza’s industrial operations are now inactive.”

  The most recent attack on Gaza is only the latest phase in Israel’s oppression of the Palestinian people and appropriation of their land.

Israel has never declared its borders. Instead, it has continuously expanded at the expense of the Palestinians. In 1948, it took over 78 percent of Palestine, an area much larger than that suggested for a Jewish state by the UN General Assembly in 1947. Contrary to international law, Israel expelled over 750,000 Palestinians from their homes. These refugees and their descendants, who now number millions, are still dispersed throughout the region. They have the right, under international law, to return to their homes. This right has been underlined by the UN General Assembly many times, starting with Resolution 194 in 1948.

In 1967, Israel occupied the remaining 22 percent of Palestine: the West Bank and Gaza. Contrary to Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention, Israel has built, and continues to build, settlements in these occupied territories. Today, nearly 500,000 Israeli settlers live in the illegal settlements in the West Bank (including East Jerusalem), and the number grows daily as Israel expands its settler program.

Israel has resisted pressure from the international community to abide by the human rights provisions of international law. It has refused to comply with UN Security Council demands to cease building settlements and remove those it has built (Resolutions 446, 452 and 465) and to reverse its illegal annexation of East Jerusalem (252, 267, 271, 298, 476 and 478). Since September 2000, over 5,000 Palestinians, almost 1,000 of them minors, have been killed by the Israeli military.

Eleven-thousand Palestinians, including hundreds of minors, languish in Israel jails. Hundreds are detained without trial. In addition, Israel is breaking international law by imprisoning them outside the occupied territories, thereby making it almost impossible for their families to visit them. Every year, hundreds of Palestinian homes are demolished. The Palestinian population of the West Bank and Gaza livesw imprisoned by walls, barriers and checkpoints that prevent or impede access to shops, schools, workplaces, hospitals and places of worship. They are subjected to restrictions of every kind and to daily ritual humiliation at the hands of occupation soldiers and checkpoint guards.

Invasion, occupation and plantation of their land is the reality that Palestinians have faced for decades and still face on a daily basis, as their country is reduced remorselessly. Unless, and until, this Israeli aggression is halted, and the democratic rights of the Palestinian people are vindicated, there will be no justice or peace in the Middle East. Israel’s 40-year occupation of the West Bank and Gaza must be ended.

The occupation can end if political and economic pressure is placed on Israel by the international community. Recognizing this, the Palestinian people continually call on the international community to intervene.”


http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article21905.htm

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By Shenonymous, February 5, 2009 at 8:35 am Link to this comment

And you, Robert, aren’t you an Ansar?  A helper of Muhammad. Are you Medinan, or Amir, or Aws?  Or perhaps you are Aslam?  How about Ghatafan?  Makhzum? To which muslim tribe of Islam do you belong?  Dare you lie about it?  At what age did you make your shahadah?  Or maybe you are ‘abd instead?  Yes there will be yawm ad-din and I will be judged.  I have no fear, but you should.  Your kufr shall get you in trouble.

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By Robert, February 5, 2009 at 8:14 am Link to this comment

And the beat goes on.

Sweden: Shoe hits Israeli ambassador

02.05.2009 | http://a-mother-from-gaza.blogspot.com
By Laila

A shoe was thrown at Israel ‘s ambassador to Sweden, Mr. Benny Dagan, when he was giving a speech at Stockholm University today. The shoe hit its target. It was followed by two books and a note pad, all hitting the severely embarrassed ambassador.

The two protesters, a young woman and a young man, shouted “Murderers!” and “Intifada!” while pelting Dagan with the objects. They are currently under arrest, suspected of assault and public disturbance.

The lecture was organised by the Foreign policy association at Stockholm university. The ambassador was supposed to talk about the upcoming elections in Israel , but turned quickly to issues of Hamas and Iran and developed a lengthy defence for Israel ‘s recent actions in the Gaza Strip.

Some 20 minutes into the lecture, a woman stood up in the audience, threw a red shoe at the ambassador and shouted “Murderers!”. The shoe hit Dagan in his stomach. Another protester then joined in and hurled two books and a note pad.

Dagan was dumbstruck and paralysed, but returned to his lecture shortly after a few minutes – only to face shouts and other verbal protests from the audience. The meeting ended in chaos, while the two protestors were taken to custody.

The boycott movement in Sweden has gained momentum during the last weeks, not the least since Veolia lost its Stockholm metro contract, worth some 3.5 billion euro a year, after a long campaign against the company’s notorious involvement in the Jerusalem tram project. The movement is now taking aim at the Davis Cup tennis match between Sweden and Israel scheduled in Malmö 6-8 March.


http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=2676

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By Shenonymous, February 5, 2009 at 5:21 am Link to this comment

You are right, PatrickHenry, about Werhner von Braun but here is
List of Jewish American Scientists who sleep under every Americans’ bed.  How many Arabs make a list.  There are some.  You find them.  And are they sleeping under your bed?

A through L
Abraham Adrian Albert
Ralph Asher Alpher
Saul Amarel
Christian B. Anfinsen
Kenneth Appel
Paul Stuart Appelbaum
Jerome Apt
Zora Arkus-Duntov
Kenneth Arrow
Herbert R. Axelrod
Julius Axelrod
Robert Axelrod
B
David Baltimore
Aaron Temkin Beck
Gary Becker
Petr Beckmann
Richard E. Bellman
Seymour Benzer
Paul Berg
David Berlinski
Daniel J. Bernstein
Stanley Biber
Felix Bloch
Walter Block
Leonard Bloomfield
David Bodian
David Bohm
Dan Boneh
Lera Boroditsky
David Botstein
Richard Brauer
Ronald Breslow
Andrei Broder
Bernard Budiansky
C
Melvin Calvin
Abby Joseph Cohen
Samuel Cohen
Stanley Cohen (biochemist)
Stanley Norman Cohen
Mildred Cohn
Jared Cohon
Sidney Coleman
Carl Ferdinand Cori
D
David Berenstein
Bernard Davis
Jared Diamond
Carl Djerassi
Jonathan Dordick
Mildred Dresselhaus
E
Gerald Edelman
Albert Einstein
David Eisenberg
Gertrude B. Elion
F
Martha Farah
Solomon Feferman
Edward Feigenbaum
Alexander Fetter
Richard Feynman
Joshua Fishman
James Franck
Melissa Franklin
Daniel Friedan
Jeffrey M. Friedman
Jerome Isaac Friedman
Milton Friedman
Stanton T. Friedman
G
Merrill Garnett
Richard Garwin
Murray Gell-Mann
Gerald Estrin
Walter Gilbert
Henry Gilman
Donald A. Glaser
Sheldon Lee Glashow
Roy J. Glauber
Salome Gluecksohn-Waelsch
Harry Gold
Samuel Abraham Goldblith
Dorian M. Goldfeld
Peter Goldreich
Richard Goldschmidt
Jeffrey Goldstone
Gene H. Golub
Todd Golub
David Goodstein
Sidney Gottlieb
Stephen Jay Gould
Brian Greene
David Greenglass
Zvi Griliches
James Gross
Michael Grunstein
Alan Guth
Eugene Guth
Louis Guttman
H
Erwin Hahn
Theodore Hall
Herbert A. Hauptman
Michael Heidelberger
Martin Hellman
Leonard Herzenberg
Milton Himmelfarb
Roald Hoffmann
H. Robert Horvitz
Hendrik S. Houthakker
Leonid Hurwicz
Henry Hurwitz, Jr.
I
Edward Israel
J
Jacob Cohen
Joseph Jacobson
Eliezer Jaffe
Arthur Jensen
Charles W. Juels
K
Daniel Kahneman
Leon Kamin
Michael Kaplan (biologist)
Martin Karplus
Leon Kass
Nick Katz
Yitzhak Katznelson
Henry Kaufman
Joseph Keller
John George Kemeny
Marc Kirschner
Fritz Klein
Rudolf Kompfner
Arthur Kornberg
Roger D. Kornberg
Thomas B. Kornberg
Lawrence M. Krauss
Vladimir Kvint
L
William Labov
Leslie Lamport
Edwin H. Land
Eric Lander
Karl Landsteiner
Kenneth Lane (physicist)
Robert S. Langer
Esther Lederberg
Joshua Lederberg
Emil Lederer
Leon M. Lederman
Solomon Lefschetz
Emma Lehmer
Richard Lerner
Phoebus Levene
Richard Lewontin
Liviu Librescu
David J. Lipman
Fritz Albert Lipmann
Fritz London
Abraham Low

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By Shenonymous, February 5, 2009 at 5:20 am Link to this comment

M through Z – Jewish American Scientists
Theodore Harold Maiman
Harry Markowitz
Jacob Marschak
Eric Maskin
John McCarthy (computer scientist)
Samuel James Meltzer
Robert C. Merton
Robert K. Merton
Matthew Meselson
Elliot Meyerowitz
Merton Miller
Marvin Minsky
Gordon Moskowitz
Hermann Joseph Muller
Walter Munk
Hugo Münsterberg
Roger Myerson
N
Daniel Nathans
Paul Nemenyi
Abraham Nemeth
Efraim Racker
John von Neumann
Nathan M. Newmark
Sherwin B. Nuland
O
George Andrew Olah
Frank Oppenheimer
J. Robert Oppenheimer
Douglas D. Osheroff
Harry Ostrer
Rafail Ostrovsky
P
Wolfgang K. H. Panofsky
Oren Patashnik
Wolfgang Pauli
Judea Pearl
Arno Allan Penzias
Martin Lewis Perl
William Perl
Susan Perlman
Gregory Goodwin Pincus
Alexander Pines
Steven Pinker
William S. Pollitzer
Frank Press
Stanley B. Prusiner
R
Isidor Isaac Rabi
Eugene Rabinowitch
Lydia Rabinowitsch-Kempner
Mark G. Raizen
Jef Raskin
Victor Raskin
Wilhelm Reich
Frederick Reines
Arnold Reisman
George Reisman
Stuart A. Rice
Julius B. Richmond
Robert Serber
Robert Steinberg
Martin Rodbell
Joseph J. Romm
Marshall Rosenbluth
Michael Rossmann
S
Carl Sagan
Jonas Salk
Steven Salzberg
Steven B. Sample
Allan Sandage
Robert Sapolsky
Jack Sarfatti
Albert Schatz (scientist)
Emilio G. Segrè
Abner Shimony
Boris Sidis
William James Sidis
Abraham George Silverman
Yakov G. Sinai
Sol Leshinsky
Robert Sonkin
Robert Sternberg
Leonard Susskind
Morris Swadesh
James Joseph Sylvester
Leó Szilárd
T
Valentine Telegdi
Edward Teller
Howard Martin Temin
Moshe David Tendler
Alexander Tetelbaum
Joseph F Traub
Amos Tversky
U
Stanislaw Ulam
Samuel Untermyer II
V
Harold E. Varmus
Wolf V. Vishniac
Theodore von Kármán
W
Selman Waksman
Joseph Weber
David Wechsler
Steven Weinberg
Victor Frederick Weisskopf
Samuel Isaac Weissman
Frank Westheimer
Harry Dexter White
Alexander S. Wiener
Norbert Wiener
Edward Witten
Emil Wolf
Jacob Wolfowitz
Stephen Wolfram
Y
Irvin D. Yalom
Rosalyn Sussman Yalow
Charles Yanofsky
Z
Richard Zare
Oscar Zariski
George Zweig

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By Shenonymous, February 5, 2009 at 4:59 am Link to this comment

Here copied for your benefit in two parts, is the Jews’ letter to the New York Times, December 4, 1948.

You must notice they were not against the State of Israel.  They were against a fascist element, a right wing element, that was rising in Israel.  The letter is not only signed by Albert Einstein, but by more than a score of other notable Jews.  The fascism described in this letter is of the Israeli Freedom Party, it is the same kind of fascism that can be described of radical Islamists that do not allow their own people a free voice nor criticism of any kind of their doctrines and dogma. 

The evil that was revealed in Israel 1948 is indicative of the fascist tendency that exists as a potential character in those who desire power and submission of others.  To the degree that Israel has allowed that element to rise again in the 21st century is the degree to which fascism has seeped back into their sovereignty.  That being said, does not absolve the fascism that has been part and parcel of the Islamist movement.  It exists on both sides and the rest of the world must participate in removing that element from both sides!

(Upon the planned New Palestine Party vsit of Menachem Begin and aims of the political movement to be discussed):
TO THE EDITORS OF THE NEW YORK TIMES:

“Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the “Freedom Party” (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine.

The current visit of Menachem Begin, leader of this party, to the United States is obviously calculated to give the impression of American support for his party in the coming Israeli elections, and to cement political ties with conservative Zionist elements in the United States. Several Americans of national repute have lent their names to welcome his visit. It is inconceivable that those who oppose fascism throughout the world, if correctly informed as to Mr. Begin’s political record and perspectives, could add their names and support to the movement he represents.

Before irreparable damage is done by way of financial contributions, public manifestations in Begin’s behalf, and the creation in Palestine of the impression that a large segment of America supports Fascist elements in Israel, the American public must be informed as to the record and objectives of Mr. Begin and his movement.

The public avowals of Begin’s party are no guide whatever to its actual character. Today they speak of freedom, democracy and anti-imperialism, whereas until recently they openly preached the doctrine of the Fascist state. It is in its actions that the terrorist party betrays its real character; from its past actions we can judge what it may be expected to do in the future.

Attack on Arab Village

A shocking example was their behavior in the Arab village of Deir Yassin. This village, off the main roads and surrounded by Jewish lands, had taken no part in the war, and had even fought off Arab bands who wanted to use the village as their base. On April 9 (THE NEW YORK TIMES), terrorist bands attacked this peaceful village, which was not a military objective in the fighting, killed most of its inhabitants —

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By Shenonymous, February 5, 2009 at 4:59 am Link to this comment

Part 2 – Continuation of the letter to the New York Times, December 4, 1948 from distinguished Jews

240 men, women, and children — and kept a few of them alive to parade as captives through the streets of Jerusalem. Most of the Jewish community was horrified at the deed, and the Jewish Agency sent a telegram of apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But the terrorists, far from being ashamed of their act, were proud of this massacre, publicized it widely, and invited all the foreign correspondents present in the country to view the heaped corpses and the general havoc at Deir Yassin.

The Deir Yassin incident exemplifies the character and actions of the Freedom Party.

Within the Jewish community they have preached an admixture of ultranationalism, religious mysticism, and racial superiority. Like other Fascist parties they have been used to break strikes, and have themselves pressed for the destruction of free trade unions. In their stead they have proposed corporate unions on the Italian Fascist model. During the last years of sporadic anti-British violence, the IZL and Stern groups inaugurated a reign of terror in the Palestine Jewish community. Teachers were beaten up for speaking against them, adults were shot for not letting their children join them. By gangster methods, beatings, window-smashing, and wide-spread robberies, the terrorists intimidated the population and exacted a heavy tribute. The people of the Freedom Party have had no part in the constructive achievements in Palestine. They have reclaimed no land, built no settlements, and only detracted from the Jewish defense activity. Their much-publicized immigration endeavors were minute, and devoted mainly to bringing in Fascist compatriots.

Discrepancies Seen

The discrepancies between the bold claims now being made by Begin and his party, and their record of past performance in Palestine bear the imprint of no ordinary political party. This is the unmistakable stamp of a Fascist party for whom terrorism (against Jews, Arabs, and British alike), and misrepresentation are means, and a “Leader State” is the goal.

In the light of the foregoing considerations, it is imperative that the truth about Mr. Begin and his movement be made known in this country. It is all the more tragic that the top leadership of American Zionism has refused to campaign against Begin’s efforts, or even to expose to its own constituents the dangers to Israel from support to Begin. The undersigned therefore take this means of publicly presenting a few salient facts concerning Begin and his party; and of urging all concerned not to support this latest manifestation of fascism.

(signed)

ISIDORE ABRAMOWITZ, HANNAH ARENDT, ABRAHAM BRICK, RABBI JESSURUN CARDOZO, ALBERT EINSTEIN, HERMAN EISEN, M.D., HAYIM FINEMAN, M. GALLEN, M.D., H.H. HARRIS, ZELIG S. HARRIS, SIDNEY HOOK, FRED KARUSH, BRURIA KAUFMAN, IRMA L. LINDHEIM, NACHMAN MAISEL, SEYMOUR MELMAN, MYER D. MENDELSON, M.D., HARRY M. OSLINSKY, SAMUEL PITLICK, FRITZ ROHRLICH, LOUIS P. ROCKER, RUTH SAGIS, ITZHAK SANKOWSKY, I.J. SHOENBERG, SAMUEL SHUMAN, M. SINGER, IRMA WOLFE, STEFAN WOLFE”

Mankind is the only creature that too often creates his own hell then goes to it. - Shenonymous

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