Fellowdigger:

“Bye Barney.”  Hysterical.  And yes, he may be the ONLY living thing we miss when Bush & Co. leave…

Peace.

It is quite funny isn’t it - and judging by my own behavior, quite true -

Haapy New Year - on and all - I hope Obama brings in 2009 on a high note - or at least a less low one - Bye, Bushie - Bye, Barney

Fellowdigger:

LOL!  While not admitting to any addiction myself (LOL), that really is hysterical.

Peace.

http://darmano.typepad.com/bloggers_anonymous/2006/05/twelve_steps_to.html

I thought this might help some of you folks - I can see how this can become an addiction and I’m glad I recognized it right away - my friends warned me about going on the blogs and I didn’t listen - I’m glad I could see the light.

Peace, as my friend Maani Says

Fellowdigger!  Well!  So nice to see you still here!  Thanks for continuing to grace us with your inimitable presence!  Despite what you think, we very much enjoy your company (at least I do).

Here’s hoping you remain with us here in the debate bubble of TD, where sound bites bite back, and erudite discussion and debate excludes no one except those who either refuse to participate or find they simply can’t keep up.

Welcome back from your (brief) absence!

Peace.

Newbies:

When Maani says do not cross the Queen or me - he is quite serious

Actually, my friends thought my latest entry was quite cleaver and creative - I have to agree. But of course that is not allowed - you will see newbie….I only tell you so that you will prepare yourself - my orientation came quiet by suprise.  It started with being called a bigot my Cyrena and Maani implied that I was stupid - or at least this is what being called thick in the skull means in my neighborhhod.  As far as thick-skinned, you don’t have to be thick-skinned, you have to be incredible tolerant of the most intolerable folk.  Others agree with me - but I don’t really need the solidarity.  There are 6 billion people on this planet and I’m sure there are many that agree with me- I only have to be honest with myself.  But I warn you, when the shit is slung at you , don’t think about slinging it back no matter how “thick-skinned” your tragets may be - they won’t be able to handle it.  They are too busy basking in a world of projection and passive-agressive stylistic rhetoric. 

Don’t get angry my friends.  Passion is okay - but no anger.  And don’t you dare get angry by those who want to take away your 1st Amendment rights - especially by those who have studied, interpreted it and locked it in their portfolio of knowledge of all things.  Have fun, oh I’m sorry, I mean choose your words carefully and make sure you always have a backup to your facts.  As far as your opinions, I would keep them to myself. 

You will soon find out that the time wasted on this blog will never be able to be refunded.  But look forward my fine friend,  you can always go to the National Enquirer - I hear they are opening a new blog and I have been directed there by the folks who never, ever told me to leave. There I am looking forward to the opportunity to find people I can get along with in my constant state of delusion, rascism, intolerance, stupidity and such - don’t be offended here, just continue with the experiement but I think you will soon find that you may be happier on a vacation at Q-Bay off the coast of Cuba…..Peace

To All Newbies: A Correction from Lord King God Bufu Maani:

Relative newbie Fellowdigger says, “If you can not follow these simply rules you will be asked to leave the blogs - we have no tolerance for dissenters.”

In fact, at no time have either Queen Cyrena or I (or any other “acceptable” TD poster) ASKED ANYONE to leave.  If people leave TD, they do so of their own free will.  Indeed, TD staff would unquestionably ask US to leave if we ever did such a thing.  TD is a website protected under the First Amendment, as are ALL visitors here.

Nor is it true that Queen Cyrena and I have “no tolerance for dissenters.”  Indeed, we WELCOME dissent - or this place would be BORING: after all, can you imagine what this place would be like if everyone agreed on everything?!  Yikes!

So fear not, newbies!  Yes, this place can get “hard” occasionally, and you will need a thick skin at times.  But all discussion and debate is welcome - as long as you don’t cross the Queen or me.

War.  (Oops, I mean “peace”...)

All ‘Newbies” - welcome to our blog….

We will quickly introduce ourselves to you by responding to one of your post.  Please do not be offended if we need to correct you right away.  We do not want the style of our debate to be effected by any negative, outside forces.  When being disciplined by one of us on your content and possible tone of your entry, it is only for your own good.  You are new here - we are not.  You do not know the lay of the land.  We will teach you if you are a willing student.  Do not digress from the debate at hand.  Do not show any sign of humor or sarcasim.  This will not be tolerated.  This is an adult website - this was not meant for children, teenagers or adults that act in such a fashion. 

Please refrain from any opinions about what we have to say.  We are not concerned with this type of conversation unless it comes from the committee.  When a “newbie” is ready and decide to make an entry which contains a “factual” statement, please have a resource for that fact.  We will gladly send you the list of approved sources for all subject matters.  If you can not follow these simply rules you will be asked to leave the blogs - we have no tolerance for dissenters or people sensitive to our style.  Like we stressed before, this is not a site for intellectual midgets - we are a very prominent group of bloggers and we would like to to remain so.

If you have any questions, please wait until we contact you.  You will know us by the name of Maani or Cyrena.

Cyrena:

ROFLMAO!  Did anyone ever tell you that you’re mean and nasty and vicious…and absolutely hysterical?!  LOL.  Some of your comments had me rolling!  And yes, they were exceptionally on-target.

Re “I’m also not putting any faith in the fact that he’s promised to. We’ve been that route before with jerseygirl and texaslib among others. They promise to never post again, and damn if they don’t pop back up to continue the terror,” it might interest you to know that fellowdigger posted on 12/25 on another thread that that would be his/her last post.  Do I need to tell you that s/he was back in less than 12 hours?  LOL.

Personally, I believe (and I believe you do to, despite some of your more…pointed comments…LOL) that everyone has a right to be here, to offer their opinions (however strange or shaky or insupportable they may be), and to engage in discussion and debate.  Just as “we’ll never stamp out ignorance,” we will not stamp out obnoxiousness either.  It comes with the territory.

In fact, it was YOU who warned me shortly after I got here that I needed to “thicken my skin” because I seemed to be taking things personally, and responding a bit too improperly sometimes.  And you have my undying gratitude for that, since it was important for me to hear it.  But as we both know, some hear and act on it, and others don’t.

Thanks for “being there.”  You’re a peach.  (Or maybe a plum…or perhaps a pomegranate…LOL)

Peace.

I’M back- your the one in your little boring sandbox - you probably can’t relate to people in real life that’s why you have to spend all your time on this site - judging by your attitude - I’m sure real people would not want to be anywhere around you - now I’m out - witch

Maani writes:

“..I am sincerely sorry you feel you have to leave.  As Cyrena and other regular TDers will tell you, you need a thick skin here, no matter WHAT your beliefs, background or positions.”

~~~

I’m not. (sorry that he feels he has to leave). I guess he knows better than anyone that he can’t survive. People that alternate between sandbox bullies and cry-babies have to find their own path just like anyone else I suppose.

The irony is that the so-called Fellowdigger has no respect for what his fellows dig up. He just busts in talking trash and ignorance, and then gets his feelings all hurt when he gets called on it. He talks about anger in your voice, which is an absurdity in itself, since he can’t hear it.

The ignorance is on clear display when he/she claims that we should get out there with regular people, without having a clue to what we do in our lives, or what we’ve dedicated our passions to. In your case, your ministry for the homeless, and in my case, over 30 years of serving the public in multiple capacities.

But fellowdigger doesn’t KNOW ANY OF THAT, because he hasn’t been around long enough. Doesn’t matter to him though. He just comes in shooting off his mouth and making accusations (the Ivy League stuff was a hoot) without even the common sense to get the lay of the land first. And then has the nerve to suggest that we are ‘know it alls’.

I’m tired of people who pride themselves on their ignorance and defend it, when they could in fact take advantage of some knowledge that they wouldn’t have otherwise had. The Internet has made that possible in a way that has not always been available to the BLUE COLLAR class that we ALL come from. But some people still don’t appreciate that.

Fellowdigger writes like a troubled and immature teenager that just wants to see his words in writing on line, and then gets pissed off when there are the standard responses. Now I’m not suggesting that means he/she IS a teenager, because I actually do know many (too many)grown adults that are as equally self-absorbed, and whine just as much. The response to such whining and hubris (arrogant ignorance)isn’t what they expect. Guess that wasn’t in the ‘fun’ plan.

So the fellowdigger is like a drunk who walks up to a stranger and starts talking a bunch of shit, throws up on them, and then acts all surprised when the stranger whacks the crap out of ‘em. He started ragging on me after ONE response which was actually very mild - comparatively speaking that is.

So no, I’m not sorry the fellow is leaving, but I’m also not putting any faith in the fact that he’s promised to. We’ve been that route before with jerseygirl and texaslib among others. They promise to never post again, and damn if they don’t pop back up to continue the terror.

I think the National Inquirer or some of those other tabloids should start their own blogs. These folks would be far more comfortable there.

I’ve also accepted(albeit reluctantly)the fact that we’ll never stamp out all ignorance.

I’m out of here - I don’t know how you people sit around doing this all the time - I’m bored out of my mind and I’ve only been doing it for a few days -YIKES

Fellowdigger:

“Maani- I have seen several responses to your attitude by other bloggers…”

Funny, I am on most of the same threads as you are, and I have not seen this.  Are you sure you are not making this up, as you have so many other accusations about me?

“I don’t like your bullshit so you insulted me long before I did you…”

This is a non sequitur.  How does one flow from the other?  No, my friend, you insulted me LONG before I tossed some harsh words back at you.  In fact, you showed up here with a chip on your shoulder and anger in your voice, the latter of which only got louder when the subject turned to religion.  Has anyone suggested anger management for you?

“I have met many people in my life and had many different types of conversations - not one of the people I had these debates with ever said the things that have been said to me on this site. When I said “fun” I meant in debate and discussion.”

And so have I.  But as Cyrena correctly suggested, if YOU didn’t have such a phony way of debating - confusing facts and opinion, making absurdly broad-brush generalizations, confusing “passion” for “anger,” throwing in snide asides that only serve to hurt people - maybe you would not have found yourself so “harshly” treated (though I do not personally think it was all that harsh).

“I will repeat - you and Cyrena are intellectual bullies - I come from a blue collar backgroud - when you push me, I push back - your snobby attitude along with you friend is exactly the type of thing that has gotten this country in the mess that it is now - a bunch of ivy educated screw up ruining the economy, our government, internation corporations.”

Oh, come now.  Neither Cyrena nor I is “Ivy League,” and ALL of us come from blue collar backgrounds.  So you’ll get so sympathy on THAT point.  Nor is our attitude “snobby.”  Again, as Cyrena correctly pointed out, she and I are both passionate and generally well-read and well-informed debaters.  If that bothers you, I don’t know what to tell you.  As for the last part of your statement, to suggest that Cyrena and I represent the “type of thing” that “gotten this country in the mess that it is now” is so far beyond silly that I will not even honor it with a response.

“You guys may have the fancy speech - but you don’t have the higher ground.”

Actually, I don’t think either of our speech is particularly “fancy.”

“You think you know everything - but I have heard you make absurd points.”

We don’t know everything, nor do we think that.  And our points may be “absurd” to YOU, but that does not make them so.

“And by the way I know passion - there is nothing I have read in your entries that would suggest you have any passion - it comes across very cold and unfeeling - roll your sleeves up and get out there with real people - I know that probably makes your skin crawl but it might knock you down a few pegs.”

You quite obviously do NOT know passion, which is something I have in abundance (some would say over-abundance).  As for “rolling up my sleeves and getting out there,” I do that EVERY SINGLE DAY in my ministry to the homeless.

“I’ll leave the website only because I can’t stand listening to this bullshit.  i knew we were up against a wall of religious intolerance but I had no idea how thick that wall was…”

Once again with the straw man.  If you leave, it will be because you have failed to convince anyone that you know how to discuss and debate in anything resembling an honest manner, and that you have not learned to “play nice in the sandbox,” instead finding ways to demean, denigrate and/or dismiss others with sarcasm and snide remarks - and then either turn around and accuse THEM of doing the same, or blame it on OTHERS’ “intolerance.”

I am sincerely sorry you feel you have to leave.  As Cyrena and other regular TDers will tell you, you need a thick skin here, no matter WHAT your beliefs, background or positions.

Peace.

Maani- I have seen several responses to your attitude by other bloggers - I have only basically recieved crap from you nd Cyrena - you are an intellectual bully - I don’t like your bullshit so you insulted me long before I did you -

I have met many people in my life and had many different types of conversations - not one of the people I had these debates with ever said the things that have been said to me on this site. When I said “fun” I meant in debate and discussion -

I will repeat - you and Cyrena are intellectual bullies -  I come from a blue collar backgroud - when you push me, I push back - your snobby attitude along with you friend is exactly the type of thing that has gotten this country in the mess htat it is now - a bunch of ivy educated screw up ruining the economy, our government, internation corporations.  You guys may have the fancy speech - but you don’t have the higher ground.  You think you know everything - but I have heard you make absurd points.  And by the way I know passion - there is nothing I have read in your entries that would suggest you have any passion - it comes across very cold and unfeeling - roll your sleeves up and get out there with real people - I know that probably makes your skin crawl but it might knock you down a few pegs—-

I’ll leave the website only because I can’t stand listening to this bullshit.  i knew we were up against a wall of religious intolerance but I had no idea how thick that wall was…

Cyrena:

Thank you for the assist.  I hope I can return the favor sometime.

Fellowdigger:

“Maani is an absolute expert on everything.”

No.  Just on a few things…

“Maani, don’t you have a congregation that needs to be ripped off.”

Setting aside that this EXACTLY the kind of blatant insult that Cyrena is referring to, which is totally inappropriate - and that I have NEVER insulted you in this manner - I am not a “congregational” minister.  I am an independent minister whose primary ministry is outreach to and advocacy for the homeless.

“Joel Olsteen and his wife were on Larry King telling everyone to relax and all the problems will pass.  In order to help his congregation, I think Rev. Olsteen should give back all the money that he scammed from the poor people who believe.”

I don’t support Rev. Osteen (you COULD get his name right), or any of the so-called “prosperity gospel” preachers.”

I had written that “Hitler was an equal opportunity murderer; in addition to almost 6 million Jews, he murdered over 2 million Christians, plus amother 5 million blacks, homosexuals, communists, trade unionists, the elderly, and the physically and mentally handicapped - a total of 11 million.”

You responded, “For those of you being reprimanded for inaccurate reporting…here is a piece of information Maani gave me on another blog - note the numbers - Maani you must be accurate in your reporting - you have added another 2 million to the count - I have now read two stories that bring the number of jews up to 9 million and does not change the total of 11 million…”

You are correct that I added incorrectly.  The total number should be 11 million, consisting of ~6 million Jews, ~2 million Christians and ~3 million others.  I accept my error in doing my addition in this case.  However, I challenge you to show me a single post in which the number of Jews was not the same.

“I came on this blog to have fun and meet some people…”

There are dating sites for that…

Seriously, though, we may not be discussing the fate of the world (though some of us may be), but as Cyrena notes, if you came here simply to “have fun” and “meet people,” then you probably picked the wrong site.

“I had no idea it was this aggressive - and Maani you are the star of that show.”

“Aggressive?”  I don’‘t think so.  There are passionate people here expressing their views and debating passionately.  You have consistently confused “passion” with “anger” or “aggressiveness.”

“Star of the show?”  Only if you think so.  Never felt like a star…

Peace.

One more thing regarding all this talk about Israel and Jewish loyalty- it is absolutely creepy - it has an amazing ick factor considering how they were identified and rounded up not long ago -  trying to figure out who is jewish and who isn’t iin our government - absolutely creepy.

By Cyrena

“You just sprout shit, and have the audacity to complain when somebody calls your bluff and makes your ignorance apparent. Just the fact that you claim to have come to this site to ‘have fun’ while discussing ‘deep subject’ matter pretty much makes that apparent.”

Never said that blow-hard.
“The arrogance is in the anti-intellectual who cannot benefit from constructive criticism. Only a person very new to the world would expect to insult people on a public forum, and NOT expect to get a reaction.”

I was insulted long before I started giving it back -you are much more arrogant than I ever imagined - although your blogs are so long and boring so I don’t usually read them - if you are such an intellectual genuis why don’t you write for a newspaper.  The short blog entries, by the others more real personalities are much more entertaining. You just ramble on and on and on - who cares??!!

“This is the big league Fellowdigger, and if you can’t take the heat when you expose yourself, then you might wanna get out of the kitchen.”

This is f**ing joke, right? You can not be serious…this is a blog -  we are not at the UN discussing world peace.

“When you just sprout shit that is basically untrue and unsupported, and expect a rational person to simply accept it, you’re reflecting your own naivety and you’re clearly NOT a ‘fellowdigger’ because of your very superficial grasp of reality. (even your on line ID is arrogant.)”

Could you please point out where I am spouting shit -as you say - I’ve made joke - I’ve given my opinion -and I know you think everyone’s opinion is shit but your. A person really can’t have a superficial grasp of reality - since it is relative - you have no more right to say that about me as I do about you - Also, the fact that you called me arrogant knocked me right off my chair laughing hysterically. You calling soemone else arrogant and you talk about my reality.  Do you want to see arrogant - get up, go to your bathroom and look long and hard in the mirror.

Oh, and one more thing you intellectual blow hard - the day that I start really worrying what someone like you thinks about me will be a very sad day for me indeed.

By Fellowdigger, December 27 at 7:20 pm #

OH MAN - Maani is an absolute expert on everything - correcting people all over the damn place - I don’t know who is more arrogant - him or Cyrena.  No matter where I go, I see him taking apart the blog entries - piece by peice - he can’t have a conversation - he just wants to flex his intellect - a complete narcissist - there is a new therapy for that Maani - it is called Dialectic Behavioral Therapy - I would look it up if I were you and get some therapy
`````
Fellowdigger,

It’s not arrogance to expect people to maintain some modicum of intellectual integrity when writing on a public forum. Lying is generally frowned upon in our socieity, and slanderous gossip will ALWAYS be targeted on a public forum. This is the big league Fellowdigger, and if you can’t take the heat when you expose yourself, then you might wanna get out of the kitchen.

While many have had disagreements with Maani and I, (and we’ve certainly had disagreements with each other) it’s obvious to a bigger and more focused mind, that there IS a difference between fact and opinion. If you present your argument as your OPINION of the FACTS and how they connect, that’s one thing that a rational person can respect. When you just sprout shit that is basically untrue and unsupported, and expect a rational person to simply accept it, you’re reflecting your own naivety and you’re clearly NOT a ‘fellowdigger’ because of your very superficial grasp of reality. (even your on line ID is arrogant.)

I might also add that HAVING A CONVERSATION does require some intellect. How does that get to be a crime, for Maani, me, or ANYONE? Only a complete ANTI-intellectual, (and we have many on this forum so you’re not alone) would indulge in these fits of childish behavior and name calling, when they’ve been exposed as the superficial frauds that they are. The arrogance is in the anti-intellectual who cannot benefit from constructive criticism. Only a person very new to the world would expect to insult people on a public forum, and NOT expect to get a reaction.

The difference between a rational intellectual and a emotional cry-baby is that we KNOW we don’t ‘know it all’ and we make it clear when we don’t, or when we are sharing another opinion as opposed to facts, because we can generally substantiate it.

You just sprout shit, and have the audacity to complain when somebody calls your bluff and makes your ignorance apparent. Just the fact that you claim to have come to this site to ‘have fun’ while discussing ‘deep subject’ matter pretty much makes that apparent.

“Hitler was an equal opportunity murderer; in addition to almost 6 million Jews, he murdered over 2 million Christians, plus amother 5 million blacks, homosexuals, communists, trade unionists, the elderly, and the physicall and mentally handicapped -a total of 11 million.  Tell me what part of this is “Catholic” in your opinion.”

for those of you being reprimanded for inaccurate reporting - on a blog no less- here is a piece of information Maani gave me on another blog - note the numbers - Maani you must be accurate in your reporting - you have added another 2 miilion to the count - I have now read two stories that bring the number of jews up to 9 million and does not change the total of 11 million - I never thought I would be writing about these deep subject with such petty back and forth - I came on this blog to have fun and meet some people - I had no idea it was this aggressive - and Maani you are the star of that show.

Diamond - according to my jewish friends - dual citizenship is offered to all jews - you can even convert and get citizenship. Jewish people are encouraged to “come home” to Israel.  the government will pay for housing and schooling - I just had a friend come back and tell me the story

Maani’s comment to Diamond:

“I’m not fixated on it.  I simply expect accuracy (to the greatest degree possible) in reporting, especially when accusations are being made.  If something is a “rumor” or “inference” or “possibility,” then state it that way.  You state things as “facts,” even when they are not.  I am only suggesting that you be more circumspect in your reporting.”

You would think that Diamond is writing an artical for the NY Times.  Maani don’t you have a congregation that needs to be ripped off.

Joel Olsteen and his wife were on Larry King telling everyone to relax and all the problems will pass.  In order to help his congregation, I think Rev. Olsteen should give back all the money that he scammed from the poor people who believe that bunk…..

OH MAN - Maani is an absolute expert on everything - correcting people all over the damn place - I don’t know who is more arrogant - him or Cyrena.  No matter where I go, I see him taking apart the blog entries - piece by peice - he can’t have a conversation - he just wants to flex his intellect - a complete narcissist - there is a new therapy for that Maani - it is called Dialectic Behavioral Therapy - I would look it up if I were you and get some therapy

Romira:

Your righteous indignation is superb.  Don’t ever let it flag!

Old Geezer Pilot:

Not sure if you’ve seen this, but:

http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/pilots.html

Peace.

By far the most compact, funny and also deadly comment was delivered by Jay Leno when he remarked that President Bush had once said that he did not strive as President to become much liked by everyone. “Mission Accomplished” deadpanned Leno to the roar of his audience.

Eugene Robinson (of whom I am a fan) speaks of the Bush administration being “shaken” by the unprecedented terrorist attack of 9/11.  I think history will eventually show that the administration conveniently looked the other way that day, having repeatedly ignored the warning signs for months, because they knew that a terrorist attack early in their regime could be pinned on the previous administration and give them the excuse they needed for starting a war against Iraq and undermining Constitutional freedoms.  Cheney was in charge all day on 9/11.  Everything that happened that day (or didn’t) has his fingerprints all over it.  This was the Reichstag fire all over again.  They weren’t “shaken” at all.  It was right on target for them.  I’m not a conspiracy buff.  I’m simply in favor of putting two and two together.  The Iraq war was planned as far back as spring 2001, and was surely a subject at the mysterious meeting of energy company executives, whose names Cheney and Bush still won’t provide.  The most secretive administration in American history had a good reason for hiding the facts of their dealings.  When are journalists and historians going to start asking the right questions?  It doesn’t take a paranoid to see what has been done.  Meanwhile, I don’t buy the well-meaning assertion that Bush and Cheney were “shaken” by what happened.  They thrived on what happened.

diamond:

“I don’t understand, Maani, why you’re so fixated on what is a minor detail out of all I wrote.”

I’m not fixated on it.  I simply expect accuracy (to the greatest degree possible) in reporting, especially when accusations are being made.  If something is a “rumor” or “inference” or “possibility,” then state it that way.  You state things as “facts,” even when they are not.  I am only suggesting that you be more circumspect in your reporting.

“I notice that you have dropped the claim that the Israelis in the van were a hoax.”

I have not dropped it.  I am spending time doing additional research on it to get a better sense of its accuracy.  I will let you know what I find.

Peace.

I don’t understand, Maani, why you’re so fixated on what is a minor detail out of all I wrote. I notice that you have dropped the claim that the Israelis in the van were a hoax. They certainly weren’t a hoax and it seems to me that they are infinitely more important to the truth about 9/11 than whether someone has dual citizenship or not. Why were they never investigated as they should have been? That’s a hypothetical question: I know the answer. The multiple passports they had on them are as good as a fingerprint of Mossad identity. Quite recently five Mossad agents were arrested in New Zealand where they were engaged in stealing passports. There was a court hearing after which they were deported. They steal passports all over the world for use in gaining entry to countries where an Israeli passport would be a problem and for use in operations. This is why it’s impossible to know who was actually on those planes on 9/11. I merely mentioned the fact of dual citizenship in the case of ‘star’ neo cons to point out that there’s a very good chance that they have divided loyalties and perhaps loyalties that put the interests of Israel ahead of those of America. This would certainly make them more likely to see the killing of thousands of Americans as justified in order to invade Iraq and turn it into a poodle of the United States. From there the plan was to turn the entire Middle East into a poodle of the United States: that is, the parts of it that aren’t yet poodles. That’s all been a fiasco but what will be an even bigger fiasco is if there aren’t hearings, the truth never comes out and no one goes to jail. The war on terror has been a fake world war but the conflict between the Palestinians and the Israelis could yet lead to a genuine world war if nothing is done to end the madness.

diamond/cyrena:

I am aware Emanuel has dual citizenship - and he has never claimed otherwise.  What I was getting at is that just because someone who is Jewish CAN get dual citizenship (under certain circumstances) doesn’t mean that they DID, even if one of their parents is Israeli.  In this regard, most of the people Diamond named have disclaimed such dual citizenship.  Thus, unless Diamond has some sort of proof OTHER than the claims of “conspiracy-minded” websites, I am not inclined to simply accept it.  Besides, even were it true of ALL of them (and I maintain that it is not), I do not see what would makes this so nefarious in any case.

Peace.

As for the rest, Wolfowitz is an American citizen (neither of whose parents were Israeli), similar for Libby, Abrams, Perle, Bolton, and Feith (though his father was an active Zionist).

~~~

Maani, I am *almost* positive that Libby has always maintained dual citizenship, and the same is true of Richard Perle. I can’t swear to the others, but my understanding has always been that if you’re a Jew, and can prove it, you can be a citizen of Israel. At least that’s what the students tell me. So wouldn’t the one person whose mother is an Israeli citizen easily be able to qualify for that citizenship? It just seems logical, since that country is the only one I know of (Israel) that allows it’s ‘citizens’ to be passport holding citizens of ANY other country as well. (If the other countries go for it).

In fact, even Rahm Emanuel holds Israeli AND US citizenship, which admittedly makes me slightly uncomfortable. But of course at the same time, me being the hard core pragmatist, I also know that Rahm does get things done. So like every other selection that Obama has made, (with a few exceptions) I’m willing to hold off further criticism, (or at least criticism based on that ALONE) until one of them actually screws up. Needless to say, that hasn’t happened on Obama’s watch yet, because his watch hasn’t started yet.

Meantime Purplewolf…Thanks for the lovely Christmas greeting. On that thing with the original 9/11 pilots ID’s being stolen….that was more propaganda at the time. There were 8 pilots between the two carriers that day, and NONE of them had ID’s that would have had Arabic names. The ID’s of the so-called terrorists that showed up later (another miracle) were Arabic names.

So the terrorists didn’t use the ID’s of the airline pilots to get on those flights. They wouldn’t have needed to. They could have just shown their own ID, and at a checkpoint, those people have no way to check the validity of any passport or other form of ID. They just look at it. Even at a ticket counter, that’s all they do. The ticket and the ID need only have the same name, and the photo to match the person. Meantime, the average commercial pilot doesn’t carry a passport around, because they don’t need them. All they need is their FAA license to go anywhere in the world, and since that doesn’t have a photo on it, they have to carry a standard govn’t issued ID as well, like a drivers license.

Besides that, there would have been no way for anybody to know far enough in advance, WHO the original pilots would even be, so they wouldn’t have had the opportunity to specifically plot to steal such ID’s before they arranged their flights.

Still, I’m glad you mentioned this. It just goes to show how much shit was being perpetrated during that time, with people and media pundits making up stuff to fill in the time, and to solidify the ‘story’ in the public mind.

Just like the biggest mass-murderer of Americans in History: Lincoln, The foul war criminal: Truman, The lying piece of Fascist filth: FDR and the crazed psychopath Teddy Roosevelt. That’s the job of the corporate media and that’s what people like Robinson do.

I gave you the names of the Israeli men arrested in New York on 9/11 and it’s common knowledge that the people I refer to have joint US Israeli citizenship. Clearly this is something you simply don’t want to believe and you also reject the implications of these facts. As for not continuing to make the claims: I know the claims are true so I will continue to make them. As a matter of fact I shouldn’t have to make them, that’s Michael Mukasey’s job and the job of the entire legal system which has failed utterly to protect the people it was set up to protect and has also utterly failed to do any kind of genuine investigation of what happened on 9/11 and who the real perpetrators were. In the case of Mukasey as in the case of Gonzalez before him there is, of course, a conflict of interest. The real story of 9/11 is a story of treason and foreign subversion, murder, fraud and theft as well as the attempted destruction of the US constitution by those who take an oath to defend it against all enemies FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC. Perhaps in the end that story’s just too big for you and a bit too close to home.

diamond:

“Chertoff has joint US Israeli citizenship. As does Paul Wolfowitz, Scooter Libby, Eliot Abrams, Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, Eliot Cohen and John Bolton.”

The Chertoff rumor started with Chris Bollyn at American Free Press - hardly a bastion of well-researched, factual info.  Just because his mother was Israeli does not automatically give him dual citizenship.  In this regard, there is not one shred of supportable evidence to support your claim.

As for the rest, Wolfowitz is an American citizen (neither of whose parents were Israeli), similar for Libby, Abrams, Perle, Bolton, and Feith (though his father was an active Zionist).

Unless you can come up with some reliable source(s) for your claims in this regard, you should stop making them.

Peace.

Maani I have several reasons for believing the story about the Israelis in the van. The number one reason is that I’ve seen a video of their rather shambolic appearance on Israeli TV where three of them tried to explain what they were doing in New York on 9/11 driving around in a white van, dancing on rooftops (their version of ‘Fiddler on the Roof’ perhaps?) and both photographing and making a video of the collapse of the Twin Towers. They essentially said they were in New York to document the destruction of the WTC. How they knew there would be anything to document was never explained or who they were working for. My guess is Mossad. There was also a story about their arrest on CNN in September 2001.Their names are: Yaron Shmuel, Oded Helmar, Paul and Sivan Kretzburg and another man called Omer. They were arrested a couple of hours after the 9/11 attacks. The first thing they said when they were pulled over was, ‘We’re not your problem, the Palestinians are your problem’, according to the arresting officer. The police were called by concerned neighbours who saw them dancing and giving each other high fives as the Twin Towers went down. And the man who let them go was Michael Chertoff. This in itself is amazing. I know that if I had been the assistant District Attorney and the police had pulled over a van full of people with boxcutters and multiple passports on 9/11 who were in the custody of the FBI I would certainly not have released them.  Chertoff has joint US Israeli citizenship. As does Paul Wolfowitz, Scooter Libby, Eliot Abrams, Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, Eliot Cohen and John Bolton. As the super capitalist Cornelius Vanderbilt put it: ‘Law! What do I care about the law? Haven’t I got the power?’ Dick Cheney couldn’t have put it better himself.

‘Journalism Light’ is what guys like Gene do best and it has worked in this malaise of public opinion.  Truth is, give folks some place to bark out their frustrations, and they won’t do much else.  This little tool of the powerful, identifies everyone who may have spoken out, and it allows the ones holding the strings to decide who gets to play, and who has to pay.  You can expect this from most governments who know how to use the Internet to allow big mouths to wail, with absolutely no danger of tyranny.

TAO Walker,

“We’re all Indians now, tame Sisters and Brothers.”
~~~

Gentle brother, we always have been.
~~~

cyrena,

Some things can never be said too much! So keep on repeating and repeating. Some day we will be in the majority, but only when those who don’t yet know,
learn.

By the way, don’t you all just love that photo? All dressed in mourning black, ready for their funeral.

When the people of the Blackfeet Nation were finally coerced into removing to within the boundaries of the reservation, they nevertheless exacted from the U.S. a recognition of their right to hunt and gather over all their traditional territory, which was (and is) much of what is now called “Montana.”  One time shortly after “settling” on the rez, some of this Old Man’s grandparents went to the Stinking Water (now “Deer Lodge”) valley to hunt game and gather other food, and soak in the healing waters.

It happened that one day some women and children and maybe two or three old men were out of the main camp getting some ripe chokecherries when all of a sudden somebody started shooting at them.  It soon was obvious the shots were being fired by a platoon of soldiers that’d come over from Ft. Missoula supposedly to “protect” the People from possible harassment by whites already moving into the area.  So one old woman put her petticoat on a stick and waved it to let the troopers know they were shooting at mostly unarmed women and children.

The shooting did stop, though only after a couple of people were wounded.  After awhile an officer and a civilian came down to where the Indians were seeing to their hurt ones.  When asked why they’d been shooting at us, the officer claimed it’d actually been some “suspicious characters” up behind the Indians who’d been the “targets.”  When asked who those “characters” were, and where they’d gone, the officer couldn’t “rightly say.”

Pretty soon a hunting party that’d heard the shooting showed-up ready to shoot back.  They listened to the officer’s excuse and sent a couple men to look for any sign of the “suspicious characters.”  They came back to report there was none….of any kind.

Things might’ve turned even more ugly, but the women were already tending to one wounded child and didn’t want any others hurt or even killed.  Everyone talked things over back at camp that night.  It was decided to take what food had been procured and head back toward the rez the next morning, which they did. 

When telling this story over the years old Grandma Big Crane always ended it this way.  “We knew those damned soldiers were really shooting at us.  And they knew we knew it.  That snot-nosed officer was just hoping for an excuse to wipe us all out right there.  He was disappointed when we didn’t give him one.”

Times have sure changed, though most americans (including Eugene Robinson here) seem to realize instinctively that its their own “soldiers” who are now really shooting at them, and that it’s better to go-along with the “phantom terrorist” excuse than to go up against the guns of their supposed-to-be “protectors” and “servants.”  Yet the whole world knows it was really “friendly fire” that took down the towers and stampeded theamericanpeople into the corrals of the “Patriot Act” and its follow-up foreclosures of “freedom.”

We’re all Indians now, tame Sisters and Brothers.

HokaHey!

diamond:

I’m sure glad you caught your error!  LOL.

I am, of course, aware of the “jet fuel” argument, the “missing core structure” in the 9/11 Commissioner Report, and the “put options.”

However, there is reason to believe that your other item (the Israelis in the white van) was a hoax, and never actually occurred.  In any event, most serious 9/11 Truth researchers do not include it in the items that are most commonly included in the various overall alternative theories of 9/11.

By the way, the jet fuel argument can actually be put into three sentences.  (1) Jet diesel fuel burns at a MAXIMUM temperature of 1800F.  (2) Iron (and structural galvanized steel) BEGINS softening (NOT even melting) at a minimum temperature of 2000-2200F.  (3) End of story.

Peace.

Sorry all,

Re my last comments, Louise already said it all. (I posted before reading the comments).

But, to reiterate the most important point. 9/11 was created and perpetrated by this regime for the express purpose of creating a “State of Exception” that would call for the undermining of the Constitution for a full 8 years, just so Cheney could set up his long coveted Unitary Executive. He did.

•  “…That record, admirably, includes the overthrow of the Taliban regime in Afghanistan, the dismantling of al-Qaida’s infrastructure and the killing or capture of some of the terrorist organization’s most important operatives…”
~~

I’m not sure that it their record DOES include these things. If the Taliban regime had ever been overthrown, we wouldn’t know that today, since they’ve come back stronger than they were before. Same with al-Qaeda and other independent terrorist associations/organizations. Those have dramatically INCREASED, thanks to the open invitation from Dick Bush to ‘bring it on’ as in “meet them in Iraq”, where al-Qaeda previously had zero presence.
This is the ‘State of Exception” concept that ALL totalitarian regimes fall back on to create their authoritarian dictatorships. It’s ALWAYS ‘national security’. That’s the most important tool in the authoritarian’s trick bag. Either CREATE a ‘national security’ event that somehow ‘requires’ this ‘State of Exception’ where the rule of law is subverted, or ‘react’ to one. I’m convinced that Cheney et al (with the collaboration of Rumsfeld and the other neocons) CREATED 9/11, so that they would have it as an excuse to do exactly what they’ve done over the past 7 years.

“These were human reactions, understandable and appropriate at the time.”

~~~

Understandable, perhaps. Appropriate? Never!

Chaos, fear, uncertainty and sorrow. So much sorrow. Emotions we all felt and feel still. Emotions we never saw from Bush or Cheney!

NEVER!

Bush continued with his photo-op. And Cheney was having so much fun watching the chaos on TV, he had to be bodily removed to safety!

Why did so many doubt the official story, so early on? Because reaction by the Administration was suspect from day one. Nothing fit, and all the speeches Bush gave for the next few month’s only re-enforced the original perception that this man was a fraud! As were his press people, his Turd Blossom and his Cheney!

But that’s just recall of behaviors that didn’t fit. Add Bushes appearance at ground zero, when he responded to the crowd yelling they couldn’t hear him. With typical Bush indifference he said, “I can hear you.” Almost like, “So?” Of course that indifference was immediately turned into some kind of caring Characature of a “real” leader. A cartoon cutout. An imitation of something real. A man who knows nothing about compassion. A man so devoid of empathy, he never thought twice about sending our troops off to start his war. While Cheney drooled over imagined but yet unseen profit!

All missed by mainstreammedia. What is it with you guys? Are you afraid of offending a politician? Or are you simply so busy covering your own behind’s you dare not see, let alone say what so many of us see and say!

We question the “official” story. And you report according to “official” dictate. What is it? Are you, like Bush, disinterested? Or are you simply afraid of the truth?

~~~

“That record, admirably, includes the overthrow of the Taliban regime in Afghanistan, the dismantling of al-Qaida’s infrastructure and the killing or capture of some of the terrorist organization’s most important operatives.”

~~~

Excuse me? The Taliban is back and bigger than ever, as is al-Qaida. The captured have never been charged and their guilt has never been established. Those who are dead will never tell, so we’ll never know the truth about “terrorist organization’s most important operatives,” actually being important, will we?

Was that the plan?

You point out Bush and Cheney left Afghanistan undone, and bin-Laden un-captured. So perceived successes must be canceled out. Why give any sense of decency to anything this administration has done in the name of 9-11 by implying success ANYWHERE?  Clearly there has been none!

Instead, why don’t you spend some time investigating? Like why did Rumsfeld change the directive on responding to hijackings, a few weeks before 9-11? Why did the new directive state no one could respond without permission from him? Why was that permission never sought?

How come an engineer in Australia was ready with a scenario of collapse, complete with charts, diagrams and drawings, which were published in Australia within hours?

How come we’ve never heard in total Bushes actions and whereabouts after he left Florida that day? And how come the Secret Service didn’t bodily remove him to safety?

Why did Ari Fleischer hold up a sign in that classroom telling Bush not to say anything? When did the Press secretary receive authority to tell the president what to do?

And how about that photograph alleging Bush, Fleischer, Card, Rove and Hughes holding a strategy meeting in the Florida class room after the kids were scooted out? Ever check to see if that actually happened? Was Hughes in Florida at the time of the attacks? And doesn’t the fact that all the players repeated exactly the same story without variance, raise a little suspicion?

Come on Robinson, dig a little! Then you’ll have your answer to “so what?”

Sorry Maani, reading your letter again I think I got the wrong end of the stick re your motives and your intelligence. However on the matter of the security firm: while it might be true that Marvin was no longer on the board, George W.‘s cousin Wirt Walker III was the Ceo of Securecom from 1999 to 2002 and this company handled security not only for the WTC but also for United Airlines.

Well, maani you applaud passion I applaud your obvious stupidity or is it guile? You have your facts all wrong, of course. I can’t see any point going over yet again the sheer impossibility that the twin towers were brought down by jet fuel when no other building of the same type has ever come down from any fire of any description even when the fire burned for days. But I have to. If there was any possibility that the jet fuel could have destroyed the steel pillars that were at the centre of each tower the 9/11 Commission wouldn’t have found it necessary to lie about them and say they didn’t exist and that the centre of the towers was filled only with elevators and stairwells down which the fire rushed. Presumably it was this same fire that blew huge slabs of marble off the walls in the lobby of one of the towers and blew out all the glass. The same jet fuel that cut the steel into neat, even lengths just the right size to go on the back of a truck. Even Alice in Wonderland would wonder at that. The fact is, steel burns at 2,750 degrees fahrenheit and such temperatures are only achievable in a blast furnace or when an incendiary such as thermite is used. An open air fire reaches a maximum temperature of 1,200 degrees fahrenheit. I can only assume that the same jet fuel fire caused huge steel girders four inches thick to be thrown outward from the towers and speared into the sides of other buildings and of course the very same jet fuel fire caused human bones to be thrown on to the roof of the Deutsche Bank a considerable distance from the WTC. No bone fragment was bigger than a quarter of an inch.

Leaving aside all of that, just consider that suppressed details of criminal insider trading on and before 9/11 led directly into the CIA’s highest ranks. Until 1997 A.B. ‘Buzzy’ Krongaard had been chairman of the investment bank A.B. Brown. This bank was one of 20 major US banks named by Senator Carl Levin in 2004 as being connected to money laundering. The laundering of drug money, specifically. Krongaard joined the CIA in 1998 as counsel to CIA director George Tenet. He was promoted to CIA executive director by President W. in March 2004. There is clear and abundant evidence of foreknowledge of the 9/11 attacks in the ‘stockbroker belt’ where many of the CEO’s are former CEO’s of the CIA. Between September 6 and 7 of 2001 the Chicago Options Exchange saw the purchase of 4,744 put options on United Airlines stock(these are options that bet that a stock will fall) but only 396 call options (options that bet a stock will rise). The people who bought the put options clearly knew about 9/11 and that United Airlines stock would fall. The people who bought those put options would have made a profit of $5 million. On September 10 2001, 14,516 put options were purchased on American Airlines. There was no obvious reason for anyone to believe their stock was going to fall. 

Then we have the Israeli citizens arrested by the police in New York after their white van was pulled over. They had boxcutters and multiple passports in their possession. They were interrogated by the FBI after they developed the film in their camera and found pictures of them posing on a rooftop standing on top of their van as the World Trade Centre collapsed behind them. Tourist snaps? I think not. They were held for around six weeks and then the assistant District Attorney had them released and they went back to Israel where they went on TV and announced that they had been in America to ‘document the destruction of the World Trade Centre’. Huh? Guess who had them released: Michael Chertoff who is now the head of Homeland Security. Yes, you can tell that joke about Dracula guarding the bloodbank now. Even better, guess who the judge was who gave Silverstein his $7 billion payout: Michael Mukasey, now the Attorney General of the United States. The guy who fainted when he had to give a speech. I can’t understand why he would feel under pressure.

Sarah Chayes on http://www.pbs.org; bill moyers journal; 12/19/2008: very perplexing to Afghans that we are providing $1BILLION a year to the Pakistan army to CREATE THE TALIBAN: note: our country has WATCHED the opium crops grow; be sold, & mercenaries brought in, & huge amounts of weapons bought; & NOW THEY WANT TO SEND US TROOPS IN? TO FIGHT THE “TALIBAN” THEY ARE PAYING TO CREATE!!!!!!!! NO NO NO! it’s a SET UP!*********American soldiers ARE STILL BEING HELD TO THIS DAY IN LAOS from NAM: when our disgusting dictators elected NOT to pay for ransom as the French did who got their men back again: but to spend the $ instead on their own pleasures: like Hillary Clinton spent $100m in 1/07 ALONE while military personnel went without meds & treatment: NO MORE ABUSE! NO MORE EXCUSE! GET THEM OUT NOW!

purplewolf:

I applaud your obvious passion.  But you have some of your facts wrong, and it is very important that 9/11 Truthers by as close to “on the same page” as possible.

“Bush’s brother resigned his position with the security company which worked at the World Trade Center on Sept. 10, 2001.”

Marvin Bush was a director of Securacom (the company that provided security services to the WTC) through 2000.  So although Securacom still had the security contract for the WTC on 9/11, Marvin Bush was no longer with the company by 9/11.

“Two weeks before the towers were hit, all the bomb sniffing dogs were removed from all the buildings.”

Actually, they were removed only five days prior to 9/11, on 9/6.

“The property had sold for about 7 million dollars just weeks before the attack, which the new owner was paid billions of dollars back from insurance companies, even though the WTC was operating at a loss and the buildings were less have half occupied when purchased.”

On 4/26/01, Larry Silverstein made a winning bid on the lease for the WTC property, which was $3.22 billion, and the lease was transferred to him on 7/24.  He did win an insurance claim after 9/11 - and he was able to double that claim by claiming that 9/11 was actually TWO attacks, not one.  That certain IS bogus.

“There was a power down the weekend just before the attacks.”

Actually, the power-down was two weekends before 9/11.  On Sat, 9/2, WTC 1 was shut down.  On Sun, 9/3, WTC 2 was shut down.  During that time, there was no electricity, including no security cameras.  ANYTHING could have been done on those two days - and under the guise of “construction” during the following week.

“People in the basement heard explosions just prior to the planes hitting the buildings.”

Actually, LOTS of people heard explosions that day.  But in the basement, it was not just explosions, but fire, including injuries.

“Have you ever seen a building on fire burn and crumble? It takes time, even days to collapse…”

Actually, prior to 9/11, NO steel and concrete building had EVER collapsed as a result of fire (even with structural damage).  Yet not one, not two, but THREE buildings collapsed that day from “fire.”

“...and these buildings fell into their own footprints in less than 10 seconds, clearly an implosion, as when buildings are brought down by planted devices and not from being hit by these planes.”

Depending on how you time it, the two towers collapsed - largely into their own footprints - in between 10 and 16 seconds.  Yet even the latter is faster than “free fall” speed (which would have been ~80 to 100 seconds).

“Cheney made our interceptor planes stand down even though there was an incoming missile(plane)headed at the Pentagon, and where was all the debris that always accompanies a large plane crash? There was non to be seen anywhere on the ground around the Pentagon immediately after impact?”

There IS evidence to support the claim that Cheney gave a “stand-down” order re the Pentagon.  And it is true that there was almost NO debris from the plane.  Yet titanium engines do CANNOT disintegrate from the temperatures created by diesel fuel fires.

As an added aside, the wreckage from the plane that allegedly crashed in Shanksville was strewn over an area of almost eight miles, suggesting that the plane WAS shot down.  In fact, there is apparently an NSA document that states categorically that it was shot down.  And Rumsfeld let it slip by accident in one of his talks.

Peace.

Margaret Currey: At the time when 9-11 happened it was on all the news channels that the ID’s that were used to gain access to these planes had been reported as missing or stolen from the original pilots prior to being used by those on the planes and when the men using these reported missing ID’s used them to enter the planes, those who were responsible for checking the ID’s were told to allow them to pass.

Bush’s brother resigned his position with the security company which worked at the World Trade Center on Sept. 10, 2001. I find that strange, as would anyone who thought about it. Two weeks before the towers were hit, all the bomb sniffing dogs were removed from all the buildings. The property had sold for about 7 million dollars just weeks before the attack, which the new owner was paid billions of dollars back from insurance companies, even though the WTC was operating at a loss and the buildings were less have half occupied when purchased. There was a power down the weekend just before the attacks. People in the basement heard explosions just prior to the planes hitting the buildings. Have you ever seen a building on fire burn and crumble? It takes time, even days to collaspe and these buildings fell into their own footprints in less than 10 seconds, clearly an implosion, as when buildings are brought down by planted devices and not from being hit by these planes. The second building hit came down in 57 minutes after being hit. Funny, that is how fast planned demolitions happen and not real destruction from fires in real time without inside help. And ask yourself this, Cheney made our interceptor planes stand down even though there was an incoming missile(plane)headed at the Pentagon, and where was all the debris that always accompanies a large plane crash? There was non to be seen anywhere on the ground around the Pentagon immediately after impact?
This among other things these corrupt leaders(?)have engineered need to be revealed for all to see, and make them pay accordingly.

Robinson ignores the growing 9/11 Truth movement worldwide, particularly in the U.S.  If we are correct, then Bush & Co. were not only not “shocked” by 9/11, since they were complicit in its planning and execution.  It was a “false flag” operation intended to accomplish four critical aspects of the neocon agenda: (i) creating a “climate of fear” through which to manipulate the masses, (ii) creating the opportunity to justify regime change in Iraq, (iii) helping justify various anti-freedom, anti-civil liberties and anti-privacy legislation (DHS, Patriot Act, FISA, etc.), and (iv) helping to centralize power in the executive (and expanding the definition of “executive” to include the VP).

And all this would be true even if they were NOT DIRECTLY complicit, but simply cynically “used” 9/11 to accomplish these goals.

In that regard, Bush & Co. are engaged in creating a revisionist history - and Robinson is culpable in helping them do so.

Peace.

The history-be-my-judge interviews that President Bush and Vice President Cheney have been giving recently help me understand why they acted with such contempt for our Constitution and our values—but also reinforce my confident belief, and my fervent hope, that history will throw the book at them.
__________________________________________

Um, “history” is an abstraction.  It can’t “throw” anything. 

Only Bonnie Prince Obama can do the “throwing”, and in order to do so he must first break free of the political calculus he so expertly applied to get him where he is today. 

I’ll be pleasantly surprised if it happens.  I find it much likelier that Obama will indulge his messianic propensities, and sweep the staggering range of high crimes and misdemeanors committed by the present maladministration, aided and abetted by bipartisan accessories, under the padded carpet of “reconciliation” for “history” to find… someday.

That’s what “pragmatists” do; they don’t waste time and resources chasing social justice, a risky and uncertain endeavor.  Instead, they slather around a lot of rhetorical goo about Unity and Post-Partisanship and Transcending Conflict and such, for the ostensible purpose of Moving Forward as a Nation and Resuming Our Place at the Head of the Family of Nations.  Yes, we can!

Taking comfort in the thought that “History” will render the appropriate harsh judgement upon the Rogue’s Gallery of political monsters—but presumably excuse their successors and We the People for granting them blanket amnesty as a gesture of “reconciliation”—is like taking comfort in the thought that Santa Claus will fill President Unitard’s and Deadeye Dick’s stockings with coal.

Cheney said in an interview he believes the administration was right for “robust” interrogation policies.  I certainly hope whomever is responsible for bringing him to justice exercises the same robustness interrogating this criminal administration.

Throw The BOOK-Throw SHOES-Throw THEM BOTH OUT ON THEIR ASSES[with their entire families]....Let/Make THEM SEE how it is-By them having to LIVE IT-How it is for the REST OF US.How WE HAVE IT…..Then ARREST-TRY-CONVICT BOTH OF THEM FOR CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY!!!And….I do not want to finance their incarceration in a cushy jail….HANG THEM BOTH!!!!!leaving their families with nothing….....

Bush and Cheney have murdered many thousands.  As Stalin averred, when you do that, it’s just a statistic.

Justice demands the execution of both, but don’t hold your breath.