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Cheney’s Legacy of Deception

Posted on Dec 23, 2008
Cheney and Bush
AP photo / Ron Edmonds

Watching his back: Vice President Dick Cheney looks on as President Bush speaks in this file photo from Jan. 18, 2008.

By Robert Scheer

In the end, the shame of Vice President Dick Cheney was total: unmitigated by any notion of a graceful departure, let alone the slightest obligation of honest accounting. Although firmly ensconced, even in the popular imagination, as an example of evil incarnate—nearly a quarter of those polled in this week’s CNN poll rated him the worst vice president in U.S. history, and 41 percent as “poor”—Cheney exudes the confidence of one fully convinced that he will get away with it all.

And why not? Nothing, not his suspect role in the Enron debacle, which foretold the economic meltdown, or his office’s fabrication of the false reasons for invading Iraq, has ever been seriously investigated, because of White House stonewalling. Nor will the new president, committed as he is to nonpartisanship, be likely to open up Cheney’s can of worms.

Cheney has even had a pass on torture, the “enhanced interrogation” policy that he initiated in his first months in office. “Was it torture? I don’t believe it was torture,” he told The Washington Times on Monday, a week after the release of a unanimous Senate report concluding that the policies Cheney initiated indeed were responsible for torture. In fact, the Senate committee concluded that the model for the Cheney-Bush interrogation policy was the torture practices of the Chinese communists during the Korean War. But it’s not torture when the U.S. president does it, according to the legal judgments that Cheney’s chief counsel, David Addington, pushed through the administration.

Fortunately, Cheney’s view of the unquestioned unitary power of the presidency was scorned by Vice President-elect Joe Biden: “His notion of a unitary executive” Biden said, “meaning that, in time of war, essentially all power, you know, goes to the executive I think is dead wrong.”

With Biden occupying Cheney’s old office and presumably his secret bunkers as well, maybe we will, at last, learn a bit more of the nefarious truth about the man. One place to start is with the statement of retired U.S. Army Col. Larry Wilkerson, who was Colin Powell’s chief of staff and who stated unequivocally that Cheney was the primary author of the torture policy: “There’s no question in my mind where the philosophical guidance and the flexibility in order to do so originated—in the vice president of the United States’ office.”

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That lame-duck Cheney was bellowing his claim of innocence in a series of friendly interviews should have been expected. For he, like the president he served, can use the self-proclaimed “global war on terror” as a convenient cover for eight years of treachery on all fronts: “If you think about what Abraham Lincoln did during the Civil War, what FDR did during World War II; they went far beyond anything we’ve done in a global war on terror.”

Actually, neither of those presidents authorized the waterboarding of prisoners or the other explicit acts of torture approved by this administration largely under the vice president’s direction. But the true absurdity of Cheney’s self-defense is in placing the nebulous war on terror at the same level of threat as the civil war that tore apart this country or the Nazi military machine that rumbled unstoppable across most of Europe, augmented by the military might of Japan.

The invocation of a “global war on terror” is a big-lie propaganda device that has no grounding in reality. The proof that “terrorism” does not exist as an enemy identifiable by commonality of structure, purpose and leadership comparable to the World War II Axis or the Confederacy can be found in its use as a target to justify the invasion of Iraq. An invasion billed as a response to the 9/11 attacks, which had nothing to do with Iraq.

The Bush administration, with Cheney in the lead, did not so much fight the danger of terrorism as exploit it for partisan political purpose. The record is quite clear that the administration was asleep at the switch before 9/11, blithely ignoring stark warnings of an impending attack. But the hoary warmongering after 9/11 afforded a convenient distraction from the economic problems at home. As I asked in a column on June 26, 2002: “Has the war on terrorism become the modern equivalent of the Roman circus, drawing the people’s attention away from the failures of those who rule them? Corporate America is a shambles because deregulation, the mantra of our president and his party, has proved to be a license to steal.”

That is the true legacy of Dick Cheney and the president he ill-served.

Robert Scheer is editor in chief of Truthdig and author of a new book, “The Pornography of Power: How Defense Hawks Hijacked 9/11 and Weakened America.”

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By purplewolf, March 8, 2009 at 11:19 am Link to this comment

christian 96:

Your biblical quotes depict the republican-GOP party exactly. Have you ever read,“Biblical Nonsense,” by Dr. Jason Long? Might clear up a few things for you in the reality department.

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Tony Wicher's avatar

By Tony Wicher, March 7, 2009 at 6:04 pm Link to this comment

By healnghanz, March 7 at 11:22 am #


After cheney is convicted of treason, for manufacturing a war in iraq to further his lust for oil, he will be shot by a firing squad. and it will be a happy time for us all.

  x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x xx x x x

Cheney also manufactured 9/11 along with his old buddy Rumsfeld, with the help of longtime gansters in the CIA. Let’s hang him for that, too.

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By healnghanz, March 7, 2009 at 7:22 am Link to this comment

After cheney is convicted of treason, for manufacturing a war in iraq to further his lust for oil, he will be shot by a firing squad. and it will be a happy time for us all.

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By oujiQualm34, December 31, 2008 at 9:47 am Link to this comment

The following is from Russ Baker’s new book Family of Secrets: The Bush Dynasty, The Powerful Forces That Put it in the White House, and What Their Influence Means for America
—-
In 1976, more than a decade after the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, a ltrrer arrived at the CIA, addressed to its director, the Hon.
George Bush. The letter was from a desperate-sounding man in Dallas, who spoke regretfully of having been discreet in talking about Lee Harvey
Oswald and begged Poppi for help:

Maybe you will be able to bring a solution into the hopeless situation I find myself in. My wife and I find ourselves surrounded
by some vigilantes; our phone bugged; and we are being followed verywhere. Either FBI is involved in this or they do not want
to accept my complaints. We are driven to insanity by this situation… I tried to write, stupidly and unsuccessfully, about Lee H.
Oswald and must have angered a lot of people… Could you do something to remove this net around us? This will be the last
request for help and I will not annoy you any more.

The writer signed himself “G. de Mohrenschildt” (1) (p. 67, Family of Secrets)

1. Letter from de Mohrenschildt to Bush, avialable through the Mary Ferrell foundation Web site (http://www.maryferrell.org) It includes
the official routing slip where Bush checks “yes” after “do you know this individual?” (104-10414-10013). Also available is a
memorandum from Inspector General John Waller to Bush summarizing what is in the CIA files on de Mohrenschildt (104-10414-10372);
and a letter from Bush to de Mohrenschildt (104-10414-10134).
——

Soon Oswald’s CIA handler de Mohrenschildt would be dead, (ruled sucide by self inflicted shotgun blast) in 1977.

He died on the very day that he received his second subpoena from the House
elect Committee on Assassinations requesting a follow up to his testimony regarding his relationship with Oswald in Dallas with other intelligence-connected members of far right—often with clear connections to oil and defense industries—in Dallas from 1962 until the late Spring of 1963.

RUSS BAKER is an investigative journalist. He has written for the new Yorker, Vanity Fair, the New York Times, the nation, the Los Angeles Times, the Washington Post, the Village Voice, and Esquire, and has served as contributing editor to the Columbia Journalism Review. His exclusive reporting on George W. Bush’s military record received a 2005 Deadline Club award. He is the founder of WhoWhatWhy/ the Real News Project, a nonpartisan, nonprofit investigative news organization, operationg at http://www.whowhatwhy.com.
_________________
Operation Mockingbird Spartacus:
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKmockingbird.htm
Operation Mockingbird Education Forum
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=5142

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By Virginia777, December 31, 2008 at 8:33 am Link to this comment

This is a very important point by nrobi:

“We are now living in the age of “unreason,”... I, for one, will not rest, until these things have been accomplished and the culprits brought to account for crimes the likes of which we have never seen and will hopefully never see again.”

The crimes that have happened ARE on a scale never seen before (in America) - but look how we have to “dig” (thank God for Truthdig) to find them. The most dangerous thing that has happened in America is that our Media - the most important sentinel for Democracy - is corrupted, corrupted when we most need it!!

This has to be fought. We must take back our Media!

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By cann4ing, December 28, 2008 at 3:43 pm Link to this comment

By felicity, December 28 at 9:54 am #

Cann4ing - thanks with a slight qualification, namely the inherent danger in labelling people ‘progressive’ or ‘liberal’ or ‘conservative,’ for that matter.  The danger is that the actual meaning of the word (s) gets muddied often to the point where, foreinstance, the Clintons can pose as ‘liberals’ when they’re no such thing.
_______________________

Actually, the Clintons typify so-called Democratic liberals.  They pay lip service to working class values, then side with America’s economic elites at whenever the opportunity presents itself.  Theirs is a “liberalism” of convenience.  That is why I reserve the word “progressive” to people like Dennis Kucinich. 

I know there is this tendency to shy away from labels, but language is designed to provide a short-hand means for understanding human differences in collective situations.  The dichotomy I provided in my earlier post between “Liberal Democrats” and “Progressive Democrats” is fundamental for it is only the latter who are truly aligned with the vast majority of Americans—the middle and working classes.

As Jeff Faux aptly demonstrates in “The Global Class War,” NAFTA was intended as a means by which a global ruling class could wage war on the working class, and the Clintons were on the wrong side of that war, adopting policies formerly known as “neoliberalism.”

Recall that Hillary was a former member of the Wal*Mart Board of Directors.  Prior to 1991 Wal*Mart did not have a single store outside the U.S.  By 2003, with its 4,400 stores, Wal*Mart had become the world’s largest corporation primarily due to its ability to profit from so-called free trade. Its “always low prices” translates into “always huge profits”—$7 billion per year, profits that have placed five members of the Walton family amongst the world’s top ten richest people, with a combined personal worth in excess of $100 billion.  This enormous wealth at the top is punctuated by the poverty level wages of Wal-Mart’s own employees, the more fortunate of whom receive $15,000/year for full time work.  But for seventy percent of the Wal-Mart workforce, the company defines “full-time” as 28 hours per week—$11,000 per year.  Abroad, Wal-Mart has aligned itself with sweatshop labor and has become the world’s largest purchaser of goods made in China.

And as Jim Hightower puts it, Wal*Mart represents perhaps the greatest threat to middle-class aspirations everywhere.

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By christian96, December 28, 2008 at 12:34 pm Link to this comment

To Patrick Henry——I can offer an explanation why
some Christians try to push their beliefs unto others.  In the Old Testament, I believe in the book
of Ezekiel, God tells believers to inform people of
their sins and if they refuse to inform people the
blood of the sinners will be upon their heads but if
they do inform people then the blood of others will
not be upon their heads. 
I just read Samosamo’s comments on raising taxes.  I
can share a personal experience I am currently
involved with.  People who work for the state I live
in don’t pay into social security.  Their retirement
check comes from the state and not social security.
Because of poor health, I went on disability with the
state years ago.  When on disability a person is not
required to pay state and local taxes.  That was a
blessing to me because I don’t make much on disability.  Recently, I received a letter from the
state Dept. of Taxation informing me that since I
have reached retirement AGE my disability converts to
retirement and I am now required to pay state taxes.
I called the state Dept. of Taxation and notified
them that they were discriminating against me because
of age.  I am disabled regardless of my age.  They
informed me that the law states that when a person
on disability reaches retirement AGE (they even used
the word “age”) their disability converts to retirement.  I ask them to send me a copy of the law.
I am going to contact AARP to see if I don’t have a
case against the state for discriminating because of
my age.  They want me to pay $2,400 dollars.  That’s
a lot of money to me.  Each year I pay thousands of
dollars for doctors, hospitalizations, medications,
etc.  You know the state is hardup for money when
they start asking disabled senior citizens to pay
taxes.

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By cann4ing, December 28, 2008 at 11:11 am Link to this comment

By jackpine savage, December 28 at 9:52 am #

My worry is that too many Americans believe that pulling the lever is the end of their political responsibility.  I’m also afraid that Obama is happy to have it that way.
_________________________________

Consider Jim Hightower’s observation:

“To me, the significant thing about the Obama phenomena is not him.  It’s the phenomena, the fact that we have millions of new voters, excited voters, people who have not been voting in the past, but who feel that this time they matter and that they have the potential not just to send Obama to the White House, but for them to go into the White House.  Not just the party operatives, not just the usual special interests, but for the people themselves….I don’t think that anybody thinks that Obama—I don’t think he thinks that…there’s any magic going to come just by him being President.  But with him, I think we’ve got a potential to have a real progressive government, because the people themselves would be a force in it.”

Power never concedes.  Change must come from the bottom up.  Because there are so few true progressives in the Obama cabinet, the only logical way forward is for progressives to reach out to those who formed the base of the “Obama phenomenon” so as to press for meaningful progressive change.  The group most focused on that is the PDA, and HR 676 may well be the most important vehicle we have to immediately press of a more progressive tomorrow.

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By felicity, December 28, 2008 at 10:54 am Link to this comment

Cann4ing - thanks with a slight qualification, namely the inherent danger in labelling people ‘progressive’ or ‘liberal’ or ‘conservative,’ for that matter.  The danger is that the actual meaning of the word (s) gets muddied often to the point where, foreinstance, the Clintons can pose as ‘liberals’ when they’re no such thing.

And of course at least in this country, ‘liberal’ has become a smear word, a pejorative courtesy of the Right which gets away with it because its real meaning is no longer clear thanks to rather obnoxious people, not to mention downright fakers now wearing it. (‘Progressive’ seems as yet to be rather innocuous - which is strange.)

Interestingly, ‘conservative’ has not become a smear word mainly because we on the Left haven’t made it so by labelling odious people with it.  In other words, it’s definition continues pretty much intact.

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By jackpine savage, December 28, 2008 at 10:52 am Link to this comment

Cann4ing,

I certainly see your point: building a third party is a hard row to hoe, especially under the weight of modern media.

I was thinking specifically of the Phoenix Project, and that there was a fairly conscious decision by the moneyed people to attempt a semi-takeover of the Democratic Party, even though the ideas of Phoenix were originally snubbed by the Democratic elite.

And there is always the danger of splitting the vote when building a third party, which almost certainly would have produced a McCain victory. (shudder)

My worry is that too many Americans believe that pulling the lever is the end of their political responsibility.  I’m also afraid that Obama is happy to have it that way.  I noted the change in his tone/vocabulary over the course of the campaign from “we” to “I” and it disturbed me.

I liked his commonsense; his progressive leanings; and his libertarian leanings.  But i wonder how many of those will come out in the wash under the tutelage of Democratic power brokers like Clinton, Emanuel, and Biden.

A lot of people said that he might be a second Carter…that would be fine by me, especially since the problems that Carter was trying to head off are now here.  I’m much more worried about him being turned into a second Clinton by the same people who made Clinton.

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By cann4ing, December 28, 2008 at 10:49 am Link to this comment

Correction to my earlier post.  The PDA platform is “Healthcare Not Warfare.”

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By cann4ing, December 28, 2008 at 10:12 am Link to this comment

JS—we agree in principle; disagree on tactics.  Back in 1948, Henry Wallace surrendered the Democratic Party to Harry Truman by choosing to run as the head of the Progressive Party.  He was trounced; became an historical footnote.  In 2000, 2004 & 2008, Ralph Nader, truly a progressive, chose to run as a third party candidate.  His percentage of the vote shrank in each succeeding election.  In terms of effectiveness, Nader was little more than a footnote.

A blind poll conducted in August 2007 reveals that on matters of substance, a significant majority of Democrats are indeed progressives.  The poll listed the policy positions of the candidates but did not provide the names of the candidates.  One candidate, Kucinich, received 53% of the vote.  The three “leading” candidates, Clinton, Obama & Edwards, each received numbers in the low single-digits.

Why surrender to the liberals a party whose base is made up of progressives?  Does not the choice of the third party route amount to an abandonment of the progressives within the Democratic Party?

I believe Nader would have been far more effective if, prior to 2000, he had chosen to run against Gore in the democratic primaries.  Even if he had lost, he would have been far better positioned to seize the nomination in 2004. 

I supported Barack Obama during the general election in order to end the reign of the American Fascist Party (more commonly referred to as the Republican Party), but now that the election is over, the time has come for progressives to step forward to ensure that “change” is not simply an empty slogan, starting with support for HR 676.

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By Thomthum, December 28, 2008 at 9:45 am Link to this comment

Cheney looks sick and old. He’ll be dead in a year…at least Webster’s definition of “dead”. Who knows what the monster has in store for us in the after-life?

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By jackpine savage, December 28, 2008 at 9:13 am Link to this comment

Cann4ing,

You’ve offered the best - by far - definition/description of “progressive” that i’ve seen to date.  Unfortunately, i still wonder how many who call themselves “progressive” could offer the same description without pointing and declaring, “what he said.”

I think it would be (have been) far better for progressives to build their own party rather attempt to work within the confines of the Democratic Party…as it is obvious that the Democratic Party is willing to take your votes without adopting your positions.

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By cann4ing, December 28, 2008 at 8:53 am Link to this comment

As an addendum to my prior response to Felicity, I will provide current examples of the significant difference between liberal Democrats (e.g., Obama, Clinton) and progressive Democrats (Dennis Kucinich).

The principle difference is that liberals lack the courage of their convictions and are prepared to compromise principle for political expediency, as Bill Clinton did on NAFTA, Hillary did in voting to authorize the use of force in Iraq and Obama did in voting for the new FISA legislation and the $700 billion bailout.  And as they consistently do in surrendering to the AIPAC line on Israel/Palestine.

Progressive Democrats of America (PDA) advocates a Healthcare Not Welfare platform and support H.R. 676 (Conyers/Kucinich) single-payer health care that would eliminate the parasitic middle men (for-profit insurance carriers and HMOs) that account for 31% of the spiraling U.S. healthcare costs, whereas liberals like Clinton & Obama offer “universal coverage” that amounts to a subsidy scheme for the parasites.  Progressives support the right of gays to marry as a basic civil right.  Liberals support “civil unions”—a sort of separate but equal doctrine for sexual orientation.

Progressives seek an end to the reign of the military industrial complex and global empire.  Liberals are far too willing to cave into to those who profit from the military industrial complex, though, unlike the neocons, liberals at least have an appreciation for diplomacy and multilateralism.

Progressives favor a repeal of NAFTA and abandonment of the WTO in favor of bilateral trade agreements that respect workers’ rights and protect the environment.  Progressives understand that so-called “free-market” capitalism is an anathema to the middle class aspirations of working class people everywhere.  Liberals, though friendlier to unions than conservatives, are, at most, only willing to tinker with NAFTA.  Obama repeatedly extols the virtues of the free market while simultaneously supporting pro-union legislation on the right to organize.

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By samosamo, December 28, 2008 at 8:04 am Link to this comment

Makes me think why either one would give a rat’s as as to what the people think of their legacies anyway. Both w & dick and the the rest of their cabal are glaring evidence of the bad gene pool infecting positions of responsibility for the people and not doing their job, as a matter of fact going out of their way to destroy everything that the people used to hold sacred. But it is these very same somnolent people that have just allowed ‘liberty hall’ in our government and not heatedly demanded the people we elect to do their job of oversight and then investigate and prosecute.
Isn’t it sort of scraping the bottom of the barrel when the states are so broke and they talk now of raising taxes on us, not the millionaires, cut education spending, health care spending, and are even now talking of selling our, THE PUBLIC’S, roads and parks? Could that not be called ‘taxing the people’ also? Driving somewhere would be just like gas shot back up to those $4.00 a gallon levels.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28399839/

We elect people to run a government that is actually ran into the ground like so many businesses and take our taxes, pay corporate management with our tax money and turn around and look to tax us more and leave those poor old millionaires alone. And just like the frequency bands, which is the public’s property, just given to corporate interests for free so they grow richer at our expense, now they will sell or lease our property to others to supposedly create income for what? Give it to the corporate welfare asses? Our states are going broke and will sell off the people’s property as if we have no voice in the matter.
As I said, why would w & dick and the rest give a rat’s ass about any legacy when they know the public will do nothing while thinking everything will rebound with this new pressident?

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By PatrickHenry, December 28, 2008 at 8:00 am Link to this comment

christian96,  I am relieved you are not a Regents U grad as they tend to be brainwashed into believing god is for an imerialist America and we are here to support Israel.  Academics are second to this mantra.

It is interesting to note that a significant amount of college grads in the Bush/Cheney cabal are Regents grads.

Your own personal relationship with god should be just that…personal.  I have always been wary of others who claim a “right” or feel they are free to impose their belief system on others.  There are too many old religions on earth for any one of them to claim exclusivity to god.

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By christian96, December 27, 2008 at 10:56 pm Link to this comment

Thanks cann4ing for directing me to Amy’s website.
I’ve watched her many times on Democracy Now.  She
appears to be very intelligent, knowledgeable, and
dedicated to pursing the truth.  By the way, (did
I use my comma correctly?  I couln’t resist that
question to counter your “delusional” reference
to the Bible) go to your local school district and
ask to read the American History textbook they use.
Then, see if you can find any reference to the early
struggle in coal mining towns when the Federal
Gov’t used troops to aid owners of the mines to evict coal miners and their families from their homes.  Save your time!  You won’t find it in the
American History textbooks.  More deception.

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By Terry Dougherty, December 27, 2008 at 9:47 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

When I was a boy, I became ‘saved’ and read the Bible mercilessly so I could prepare myself to become a Southern Baptist minister. But reading the Bible and trying to make sense out of the contradictions caused me to make other plans. The ‘born agains’ claim this is God’s Word, therefore there are no contradictions. Christers: here is an easy one. The Book of Matthew says that Jesus was born during the reign of Herod the Great (sic); the Book of Luke says Jesus was born when Cyrenius was Legate to Syria. The problem is these weren’t the same periods of time. Herod died in 4 BC, while Cyrenius was Legate in 6 and 7 AD. We can infer from the Book of Mark that Jesus was executed in 36 AD. This meant that Jesus was either 29 or 30 or older than 40 when he was executed.

However biblical prophesy is unassailable. Matthew says that the end will come when there are wars and rumors of wars, that there will be ‘divers’ happenings (I thought at the time does this mean that if I buy SCUBA gear that I will be condemned to suffer all eternity wailing and nashing my teeth? No, that was the way ‘diverse’ was spelled during the 17th Century). The problem is when in the history of Humankind hasn’t there been wars, rumors of wars and diverse happenings? It seems to me this is a sure bet. But it doesn’t tell us when. I have come to believe that Jesus’ prophesy was not about the end of the world but a reference to the war between Rome and Judea (70-6 AD).

I believe Dan Brown got it right when he claimed in the DaVinci Code that Jesus and Mary Magdeline were husband and wife, that she was pregnant with Jesus’ daughter, Sara, and that the reason he was executed was that the Royal marriage between Jesus and Mary Magdeline threatened the Herods. The three synoptic Gospels claim that the crime Jesus was accused of was claiming to be King of the Jews. His executioners even placed a crown of thorns on his head to mock that claim. Doesn’t that information corroborate Dan Brown’s theory?

Did Jesus claim to be God’s Only Begotten Son? Why then does the Lord’s Prayer begin with Our Father instead of My Father instead. His claim that he would ressurrect on the third day is ‘proved’ by the curious statement that he could destroy the temple and rebuild it in three days.

I agree entirely that the Christian Religion is the biggest hoax ever visited on a superstitious world.

The preceding comments presuppose that there was an actual Jesus, and he wasn’t a fiction created by Pliny the Younger and Flavius Josephus.

The ‘counselor’ who is a flaming ‘born again’ is scary. No wonder there are so many naive and ignorant persons in this country.

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By ApprxAm, December 27, 2008 at 9:46 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Well….in a world of No-Absolutes, Ol’ Dick is going to get away with and that’s that.  We let him ge away with it because he made Americans feel safe.  Now, here lies the prime example of why the rich can do any-damn-thing they want.  Enron, Haliburton…evil-do-ers everywhere don’t always receive justice.  We’d like to beleive that justice is absolute…..life is unfair and sometimes….EVIL wins and Ken Lay moves to Spain.

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By cann4ing, December 27, 2008 at 8:38 pm Link to this comment

Glad to see you have access to the Dish Network and Free Speech TV, Christian96.  If you are tired of the propaganda from the corporate media, try watching Amy Goodman at Democracy Now (which you can link to at http://www.democracynow.org) or take in Bill Moyer’s journal.  In the meantime, you would do well to stash that Bible in a drawer for a spell so as to give your mind the chance to emerge from its delusional state.

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By cann4ing, December 27, 2008 at 8:30 pm Link to this comment

Felicity, if you want definitions, a good starting point is Webster’s which defines “progressive” as “one believing in moderate political change and esp. social improvements by governmental action.”  Webster’s lists both William LaFollete and Henry Wallace as American progressives.

Want to know the difference between a “liberal” and a “progressive,” consider the following modified comment taken from Wikipedia.

In 1948 Wallace ran as a Progressive Party candidate for president. His platform advocated an end to segregation, full voting rights for blacks, and universal government health insurance. His campaign was unusual for his time in that it included African American candidates campaigning alongside white candidates in the American South, and that during the campaign he refused to appear before segregated audiences or eat or stay in segregated establishments.  (The “liberal” Harry Truman had no such qualms.)

On April 9, 1944, then VP Wallace published a prescient description of the American fascist which fully applies to the forces behind the Bush/Cheney regime.

“The American fascist would prefer not to use violence.  His method is to poison the channels of information.  With a fascist the problem is never how best to present the truth but how best to use the news to deceive the public into giving the fascist and his group more money and more power.”

“They claim to be superpatriots, but they would destroy every liberty guaranteed by the Constitution.  They demand free enterprise but are the spokesmen for monopoly and vested interest.  Their final objective toward which all their deceit is directed is to capture political power so that, using the power of the state and the power of the market simultaneously, they may keep the common man in eternal subjugation.”

It wasn’t just fascists like Joe McCarthy who played the Communist menace card.  During the 1948 campaign Wallace and the Progressive Party were smeared by “liberal” Democrats and even by the Socialist, Norman Thomas, because he refused to disavow the Communists who supported his candidacy.

So yes, Felicity, there are significant differences between progressives and liberals.

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By christian96, December 27, 2008 at 8:13 pm Link to this comment

To Patrick Henry——-I am not a graduate of Regents
University.  In fact, when I was in undergraduate
and graduate school I rejected the Bible.  It was
telling me not to do things I wanted to do so I
rationalized rejecting it by claiming it was just
another book written by a group of men.  In 1977,
I was teaching Educational Psychology at a secular
university.  On Good Friday, at approx. 3 p.m, I got
a call from my mother in West Virginia telling me
I better come home because my father had a serious
heart attack.  As I was packing to go home the girl
I was dating handed me her Bible and said, “Here,
take this with you.”  When I got to the hospital
my father was swollen from the heart attack.  Every
son dreads the death of his parents, especially his
father.  I was the only son with two younger sisters.
Early Easter morning (approx. 2 a.m.) I was alone with my father in the hospital.  I began to read the
Bible my friend had given me.  When I came to John
11:4 the words stood out from the page, “This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God,
that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.”
I had never seen words stand out from the page.  I
had not consumed any alcohol or drugs.  Then, I prayed to God, “If you will spare the life of my
father, I will spend my life glorifying your son.”
After that prayer my father began to improve and lived another 19 years until his death on February
20, 1996.  When my father began to improve, I realized I needed to keep my end of the bargin with
God.  I knew very little about the Bible.  So I began
to read it 2,3, or 4 hours a day.  I have been studying it for almost 32 years.  There are many
things in the Bible I do not pretend to understand.
For those things I follow the words in Proverbs 3:5,
“Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean
not unto thine own understanding.”  In conclusion,
I know there are people on this site who are tired
of hearing me talk about the Bible.  So, let me deal
with an issue that is being discussed.  The interpretation of words like “liberal” and “conservative.”  If you ask 10 people to define
these words you will probably get 10 different interpreations.  People in the media, including
ministers, use these words to manipulate people.
They are deceivers.  I am in Florida now to escape
the cold weather up north.  Here I am on cable and
subjected to the talking heads who discuss what they
are told to discuss by multinational corporations
who are attemping to deceive people.  Up north, I
have Dish network where I can watch programs like
the Free Speech channel and Link tv.  While I am here
I will depend upon sites like Truthdig to give me a
different interpretation of events happening in the
world. I’ll shut up now.  I am afraid there are times
I tend to get rather verbose.

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By cyrena, December 27, 2008 at 8:01 pm Link to this comment

Christian96,

Cann4ing didn’t give you an “F” because of your comma usage or other sentence structure. You got an “F” (Which is kind of cann4ing, since other professors might be inclined to cite you for intellectual dishonesty/ie - blatant lying.

No, you got the “F” (assuming this was an academic assignment or exam) because you make the shit up without providing a single piece of evidence for your lies.

I don’t suppose that a Military Academy in or around a coal mining operation WOULD stress those things.

Military Academies generally proselytize the Military Doctrine of American Empire. There may be some exceptions, but that’s the general path. Students don’t learn independent thinking, but rather what to regurgitate. But even your regurgitation is a flunk.

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By oujiQualm34, December 27, 2008 at 5:41 pm Link to this comment

Let me jump into the fog here re: the purposefully vague terms liberal and progressive.

One thing that I have noticed is a tendency among many on the “left” to conflate todays liberals with the liberalism of say the Kennedys.

While it is perfectly valid to point out the shortcommings of the Kennedys, from a position further to the left, I think that to conflate them with the “liberals” of today—as in complete Bush enablers like Hillary, Schumer et al is VASTLY MISLEADING.  Moreover, it is encouraged by key left-gatekeepers like Chomsky and Cockburn. 

They simply give EXTREMELY ONE SIDED VIEWS OF THE Kennedys as if they were the same as the Clintons and THIS IS SIMPLY NOT HISTORICALLY ACCURATE.  I say this as a recovering Kennedy basher who at one point believed their criticisms of Kennedy.  Then I read more not just about the assassination, but also about the Cold War between the years 1960-63.

That is why The new book Family of Secrets by Russ Baker is so important.  OF course it earned an immediate drive by from Mad Alex in his muscle car.Note how little of substance is in his criticism in todays coutnerpunch. In fact if there is anything at all besides namecalling in it then Ill give you a dollar. How different are his other articles when he is not playing his role of left-Kennedy basher. 

It is time that we look into the History of the CIA funded left-liberal mag. Encounter.  Its purpose was to seem believable to a left liberal audience then use that credibility to further US COld War aims among the tweedy professor set.  So where is my evidence that Cockburn is today’s Encounter?  Why I have a signed confession of course.  Of course I have none whatsovever, but I am continuously amazed by the gulf between the quality of his other articles and his Kennedy Bashing forays.  From the Bay of Pigs to the CUban Missile Crisis this guy is reading from the CIA script.  No not on everything, just Kennedy. And I find it hard to believe that Mad Alex doesn’t know Jack. 

We do not live in a democratic media environment.  We have NO WAY WHATSOEVER OF LEARNING WCHICH MAGS ARE TODAYS ENCOUNTERS.  The best we can do is USE the history that we do know.

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By Stormboy6722, December 27, 2008 at 4:51 pm Link to this comment

To me, a progressive is one who looks into the social systems, attitudes and perceptions that lead us down the roads we’re on (that got us into this ditch) and tries to devise new alternatives that can help us progress toward ways to live that are more harmonious, sustainable and honorable. I would contrast a progressive viewpoint with the liberal view that everyone should be treated fairly, but without looking into the roots of the gross violence, injustice and ecologically damaging behavior done by current institutions.

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By felicity, December 27, 2008 at 4:10 pm Link to this comment

jackpine savage caught it too. 

Progressives - what the hell is a progressive - are certainly not liberals according to the accepted definition of same.  Liberals champion equity, fairness and individual rights.  Can anyone who calls himself/herself a progressive define yourself?  I’m curious.

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By Stormboy, December 27, 2008 at 2:52 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

All that Scheer says is true and I fervently hope Cheney and his mob are duly prosecuted and punished. But - history should also note that Cheney, the engine that could, and did, drive Bush to invade Iraq, was easily misled by Ahmed Chalabi to believe that he would succeed in occupying Iraq, setting up a puppet regime, getting lucrative oil rights and profits, and establishing permanent US bases to intimidate the fareast for the next 100 years. “Greeted as liberators” was the phrase Chalabi gave to Cheney. Now we know Chalabi was working for his Iranian allies and his future in that regime, not for liberation of his people, and that he knew US troops would not be welcome there after Saddam was disposed of, and that Iran would effectively occupy most of Iraq and become the new mideast superpower. History, please note that Cheney, who got suckered into playing handmaiden to Iranian expansion stragegies, is not only evil, he’s also stupid.

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By jackpine savage, December 27, 2008 at 1:52 pm Link to this comment

I take your point well, Canning4, as it’s something that i believe deeply…i.e. that We actually hold the power and We must use it.

However, the apologia has already begun and with the empire crumbling around us i figure that most people will spend more time trying to hold their own lives together than do what is right.

I do hope that i’m wrong.

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By cann4ing, December 27, 2008 at 11:38 am Link to this comment

With all due respect, Jackpine, your pessimism is counter productive.  The responsibility is ours. The same grass roots organizations that helped elect Obama, must now exert unrelenting pressure on a full restoration of the rule of law, which must include a repeal of the MCA, a full investigation and prosecutions at the same time they are mounting pressure for Congress to pass HR 676 (Conyers-Kucinich) single-payer health care.  The must continue to pressure a more speedy withdrawal from Iraq.

Power never voluntarily concedes.

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By jackpine savage, December 27, 2008 at 11:28 am Link to this comment

But the military commissions act won’t be repealed…

There won’t be charges brought here in Amerika…

There won’t even be a truth and reconciliation committee…

The Dems never attacked executive power in the Bush administration because they were pretty sure that they’d get to wield in 2009.  Besides which, Clinton was practicing extraordinary rendition and various other unconstitutional acts, and the Dems certainly don’t want to start opening up the can of worms called “precedent”.

We’ll just have to get used to this behavior being the Amerikan Way, because i have a strong feeling that it isn’t going to stop under Obama either.

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By cann4ing, December 27, 2008 at 11:07 am Link to this comment

By PatrickHenry, December 27 at 8:27 am #

Ghandi once said, “I like your Christ.  I do not like your Christians.  They are so unlike your Christ.”

Truer words have never been spoken.

Let charges be filed Jan 21. after Bush loses his powers.  You can’t pardon or commute charges which haven’t been filed.
_____________________________

Would that it were so.  Ford headed off the bringing of charges against Nixon by way of a blanket pardon “before” charges were brought.  Carter pardoned all draft resisters who had fled to Canada to avoid Vietnam irrespective of whether charges were brought.  Cheney could be pardoned by Bush before Bush leaves office.  The unresolved issue is whether Bush can pardon himself.

If no pardons are issued, Congressional action would still be needed before Cheney et al can be brought before the bar of justice.  Specifically, Congress should repeal the Military Commissions Act of 2006 which, among other issues, purported to provide an immunity from prosecution for all crimes committed in support of the so-called “war on terror” retroactive to 9/11/01.  That was obtained after a comment made by Justice Kennedy in his concurring opinion in Hamdan, which held that the “military tribunals” at Guantanamo violated Common Article III of the Geneva Convents, sent Alberto Gonzales scurrying over to a then Republican-controlled Congress.

Kennedy wrote:  “Article 3 of the Geneva Convention (III), Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War, Aug. 12, 1949…is part of a treaty the United States has ratified and thus accepted as binding law.”  He then ominously added, “By Act of Congress…, violations of Common Article 3 are considered ‘war crimes,’ punishable as federal offenses, when committed by or against United States nationals and military personnel.”

The Military Commissions Act of 2006 is an abomination which must be repealed.

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By cann4ing, December 27, 2008 at 10:44 am Link to this comment

By christian96, December 27 at 8:36 am #

As for your comment about the behaviors described
in 2nd Timothy 4:1-3 existing throughout history, you
are correct.  However, they have not existed throughout history in the quantity and quality that
they presently exist.
__________________________________

If this were an exam or homework project, I’d give you an “F.” 

1. What is the “source” of your claim that the behaviors listed in 2nd Timothy 4:1-3 existed in a different quantity or quality than they exist today?
There is no empirical evidence to support that claim.  Cheney’s authoritarian behavior and avarice are not some new and unique development.  Examples of tyrannical behaviors and greed can be found throughout recorded history.

2. This Biblical passage did “not” state that “THE LAST DAYS” would be near when the human foibles that you now concede have existed throughout history were manifest in a different quantity or quality—the passage said that when those foibles appeared we would be in “THE LAST DAYS.”  You are changing the content of 2nd Timothy 4:1-3 to evade its irrationality.

Having been unable to meet this irrationality head on, you turn to a supposed “prophesy in Zechariah 14:12 reads:  “And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.” You then say, “Sounds like a nuclear bomb to me and this was written more than 2,000 years ago before anyone knew anything about nuclear bombs.”

Typical gibberish from a true believer.  The words “nuclear” and “bomb” do not appear.  Instead, the passage references a “plague” which Webster’s defines as “an epidemic disease causing a high rate of mortality: PESTILENCE; a virulent contagious febrile disease that is caused by bacterium.”

Typical of right-wing Christians who lack the capacity to reason, you begin with the premise that this passage is a “prophesy” of End Times that comes from the hand of God and then read into it an intent that nowhere appears in the text.  If there were truly an all-knowing God with perfect foreknowledge, He would have known that we’d develop nuclear weapons in the 20th Century, and if the words you recite were truly written by that God, there would have been no need for His “prophesy” to be so cryptic.  He could have simply said that Armageddon would come by way of a nuclear war.

Finally, the “prophesy” you cite references a plague that God Himself delivers.  A nuclear war would be delivered by the hands of human beings.

The only thing you have demonstrated, Christian96, is that the ignorance of the true believer is not benign.  If you religious zealots ever gained access to the nuclear trigger, one could anticipate an effort to make Armageddon a self-fulfilling prophesy.

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By PatrickHenry, December 27, 2008 at 9:48 am Link to this comment

christian96

You appear to have the credentials of a Regents U grad.

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By christian96, December 27, 2008 at 9:36 am Link to this comment

To Cann4ing——My formative years were spent in a
coal mining community in West Virginia where my father worked 40 years in the mines.  I didn’t learn
the rules of grammar or sentence structure in my home
or community environment.  When I went to high school, I didn’t learn the rules of grammar because
I was to involved with girls and sports.  I may misplace a comma or semi-colon now and then but I do
have the ability to communicate with words. 
As for your comment about the behaviors described
in 2nd Timothy 4:1-3 existing throughout history, you
are correct.  However, they have not existed throughout history in the quantity and quality that
they presently exist.  I don’t base my belief that
“we are in the last days” solely on those verses.
Jesus said in Matthew 24:14 “And this gospel of the
kingdom shall be preached in ALL THE WORLD for a witness to
all nations; and then shall the end come.”  With
advances in communication, especially satellites,
the gospel can now be preached throughout all the
world.  Verne Arnold made the comment earlier on
this site that Israel just bombed the Palestinians.
Developments in the Middle East really bother me because a prophecy in Zechariah 14:12 reads:  “And
this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume
away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume
away in their mouth.”  Sounds like a nuclear bomb
to me and this was written more than 2,000 years ago
before anyone knew anything about nuclear bombs.
It bothers me that preachers I watch on TV aren’t
telling Arab people about this prophecy.  My original
point about Cheney, other corrupt politicians and
business leaders is that their attitude and behaviors
are an example of the behaviors listed in 2nd Timothy
4:1-3.  As for your comment about Christians working
in public schools corrupting the minds of children,
let me respond by reminding you that Christians are
taught to display love, gentleness, kindness, meekness, and forgiveness.  What about these characteristics would corrupt the minds of children?
I will give you a personal example of Christians
working in public schools.  While serving as School
Psychologist near Cincinnati, Ohio, I learned about
a 5th grade boy in our school system who was dying
of Cystic Fibrosis.  His mother and father were divorced.  His father went to California and left
the mother to raise the boy on her own.  She was poor.  She and her son were existing on food stamps
and welfare.  The boy, Ernie, loved the Cincinnati
Reds baseball team.  A player for the Reds, Johnny
Bench, was Ernie’s hero.  I took Ernie and his friend
to Cincinnati to watch a game. Prior to the game, I
called an administrator for the Reds and told him
about Ernie and ask if there was a chance for the
boys to meet Johnny Bench and other players.  The
administrator came to meet us and took the boys to
the Reds dugout to meet Johnny Bench.  I had my
Polaroid camera with me so I took pictures of the
boys standing next to Johnny Bench.  The bottom of
the 9th came up with the score tied 2-2.  Johnny
Bench came to bat with a runner on 2nd base and 2 outs.  Johnny Bench got a hit and won the game.  It
was his last game winning hit before retiring.  A
few months later, Ernie died.  When I walked in the
funeral home, I saw Ernie in the casket wearing a
Cincinnati Reds uniform with a Reds cap on his chest.
I was raised in a coal mining town where men are taught to be tough and not cry.  I got tears in my
eyes when I saw Ernie.  That’s just one of many
examples of me helping children.  What have you done
lately to help children?

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By PatrickHenry, December 27, 2008 at 9:27 am Link to this comment

Ghandi once said, “I like your Christ.  I do not like your Christians.  They are so unlike your Christ.”

Truer words have never been spoken.

Let charges be filed Jan 21. after Bush loses his powers.  You can’t pardon or commute charges which haven’t been filed.

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By jackpine savage, December 27, 2008 at 9:05 am Link to this comment

Cyrena,

That believers find it necessary to shove their chosen book down the throats of others is to be considered.

As one who was never baptized and has never been to church, it pisses me off a great deal too.  Leading to my favorite conversation ender when the Witnesses show up on my door step, “Look, i don’t hate Christ.  I’m down with Christ, but i hate f*#king Christians.”

But as one who got a degree studying the religions of the world, i try to keep the book separate from what people do with the book.  And there is a great deal worth reading in both the Old and the New Testaments.  Even more profound are the books that the Church decided had no place in the New Testament.  And more profound yet are the books that were hidden from the Church and only discovered after WWII.

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By oujiQualm34, December 27, 2008 at 8:39 am Link to this comment

Everyone should get the book Family of Secrets by Russ Baker.  It does what no other of the hundreds of other Bush Cheyney books does. HW Bush does Dallas 11-22-63. I know but please save your tinfoil This author is unfoilable:  Columbia Journalism, Bill Moyers-Chomsky preotection, NYT WaPost etc.

This dude is armor plated and this book is going Kennyport Green-Zone. Its the Bunker-buster you are frightened to read because your friends eyebrows might start doing the wave, when you can’t stop talking.  Its the inspiration for that old Cole Porter tune “unfoundationfundable” its…

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By Verne Arnold, December 27, 2008 at 7:35 am Link to this comment

Israel, just bombed the shit out of the Palestinians; 160 dead, 310 injured. They need to be tried as the war criminals they are. Together, Israel and America are the leading butchers of the world. How can Americans support this savagery? God, I’m glad I no longer live there. It’s truly more than I can bear. Shame on America for it’s abominable behavior. Shame!

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By Verne Arnold, December 27, 2008 at 7:14 am Link to this comment

Scheer writes the obvious. The real problem is the loss of systemic, traditional values, that have been long lost and no longer considered by us the people, who used to embody said values. The general population (us), who endure the criminal behavior of our elected officials, up to and including our President, have given up our power and have settled for the position of the led (sheep). As a result, the Cheney’s of our world; committing the most egregious crimes against humanity since WWII (Nazi Germany) will walk away from their war crimes with no accountability. Our collective crime will be the failure to pursue these crimes to prosecution. The world will be less for this failure. The final cost to us will be the complete loss of moral leadership. We will never again have a commanding voice for justice in this world. That loss will forever doom us to a second rate nothing.

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By ThnkUBush, December 27, 2008 at 7:08 am Link to this comment

The broader war against Islamist terrorism has been a success. There has not been a single terrorist attack on U.S. soil since 9/11, and for all the global condemnation of pre-emptive strikes, Guantanamo and the use of rendition against terror suspects, the fact remains that Bush’s aggressive strategy actually worked (most TruthDig posters willingly ignore these facts).

Significantly, there have been no successful terrorist attacks in Europe since the July 2005 London bombings, in large part due to the cooperation between U.S., British and other Western intelligence agencies. American intelligence has proved vital in helping prevent an array of planned terror attacks in the UK, a striking demonstration of the value to Britain of its close ties to Washington.

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By cyrena, December 26, 2008 at 9:15 pm Link to this comment

re: Tony WIcher

By Tony Wicher, December 25 at 11:31 pm #
re cyrena, December 24 at 3:46 am #
Meantime, I’m not so certain that Obama isn’t inclined to open the can of cheney worms just because of his nonpartisan ideology. In fact, I think Obama would be quite willing to open this can of worms and expose it to the light of day, IF he thinks it can be accomplished. That’s more in line with his hyper-pragmatic caution, and it’s also very much in keeping with the NONpartisan agenda. Crimes like those that have been committed against us, even though they were committed on a highly partisan foundation, have still been CRIMES against every last one of us! Going after these criminals isn’t a partisan or politically motivated exercise.
—————————————————————————-
cyrena,
If 9-11 and the anthrax were an inside jobs, many of the people responsible are still in high places all over the government. I don’t see how Obama can possibly get anything done under such circumstances. He will end up getting assassinated for sure. He’s got to investigate. He will try to keep it quiet as long as possible, but eventually there will have to be full public disclosure.
~*~*
Uh…what’s up here Tony? I’m confused, and surly it HAS to be me the dumb ass, so help me out here. How does my OPINION (there’s no facts in evidence here yet Tony, about how or when Obama will deal with the prosecution of this current regime) connect to Obama being assassinated..in your opinion… for sure?
I’m not connecting the dots here. My own post (to which you are allegedly ‘responding’ here), indicates that I believe Obama WILL in fact pursue such an action, (meaning some type of prosecution) based on the laws of the land, which dictate the process. I’ve also mentioned that it may happen on the International level as well, since this regime has committed against the rest of the world as well.
So, in my struggle to understand your connection, are you saying that HE WON’T do this because the people who are responsible for 9/11 and the anthrax attacks are still in the government, so he can’t get anything done, because they’re gonna assassinate him. Do I have that right?

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By cyrena, December 26, 2008 at 9:14 pm Link to this comment

2 of 2 re Wicher

But SOMEHOW, despite the fact that these people are still all over the government and are going to assassinate him, he’s going to ‘keep it quite’ for as long as he can, and then make a full public disclosure. I understand the part about how he won’t get anything done based on your prediction of assassination. That would be difficult, even for him. I just don’t quite get how you know that the people responsible for 9/11 are gonna do it. Do you REALLY think that Obama is gonna keep the likes of Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush, et al in the government? Do you think he’s going to keep David Addington on his staff? Who else is responsible that is still hanging around the government? Got names and evidence?
I mean, this is your chance to be a hero and save him from assassination. You just tell us who is responsible, and we’ll make sure they are prosecuted before they have a chance to assassinate him.
As for your suggestion that he would ‘keep it quite’ for as long as possible, I don’t buy it. He’ll ‘keep it quite’ until there’s some damn evidence connecting all of the dots, which is what the law demands that we do, or else it will be thrown out of court, or never even be allowed that far. And yes, the new Justice Department, along with the rest of the new Administration, is going to have to track all of that shit down, once they get access to whatever records Cheney hasn’t been able to destroy.
ONLY when Obama and his staff at the Justice Dept are able to put this together, will we then know about it, because the PUBLIC DISCLOSURE will be a TRIAL!! (I think most of us would feel somewhat cheated by a plea bargain.)

So if you call that ‘keeping it quite’, than knock yourself out. People in my field call it work. Guess it doesn’t matter what we call it, as long as the end result is the same.


I think I’m gonna reserve judgment on the assassination. No doubt you’ll be able to explain it to me so that I understand it all perfectly. Then again, maybe not….since I’m such a dummy who doesn’t even know the names of the Egyptian Gods, or that it was really the Irish that started civilization. Still, I like to think of myself as a life-long learner, so there might be a chance for me yet.

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By cyrena, December 26, 2008 at 8:24 pm Link to this comment

By drbhelthi, December 24 at 7:40 am #

At his central briefing in 1981, Reagan-Bush appointee, CIA chief William Casey stated, “We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false.” Many major-public-media in the US are owned by quasi „NAZI-types“ who continue the disinformation process in the USA, indeed the western world.

~~~~

I never knew of this quote from William Casey, so I thank you for attaching a real live name to such a quote, since of course I know this to be true. (about the disinformation process of the USA).

In fact, I’m not completely sure that the USA hasn’t far exceeded what the Nazis put together for their Propaganda Ministry.

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By cyrena, December 26, 2008 at 8:18 pm Link to this comment

You, like all the recently crawling out of their basement delusional as uneducated rotten Abrahamic Moronic Children simply an incredible ANNOYANCE lately!
You have like all People a statistical “knowledge” of the Bible which is only about 1%!
That is the same amount of Percentage one can attribute to every Fairy Tale to be factual.

~~~

Actually, I think the Fairy Tales are far more accurate than the Bible, (remember the Emperor who had no clothes?) but you’re correct that most folks may only know about 1% of them as well.

That’s because of what Jackpine says here…

“They mistake the metaphor for the Truth, and in so doing ruin the metaphor for everyone else who might use it to see the Truth.”

“(And by the way, pick a book any book: Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, Zoroastrian, Native American “myth”, Muslim, Greek, Pygmy….  They all hold the Truth couched in metaphor.)”

~~~~

I wish I could say that ruining the metaphor for anyone else who might use it as Truth is the worst of it. It isn’t, if only because there are those of us who insist on doing our own interpretations, so we’re likely to find it anyway, and use it accordingly.

So what’s worse is that they ruin the metaphor AND try to FORCE the ruined version on any and everyone else.

It boils down to ‘believe as I do, or else.’ Please keep in mind that with so many of these people, even THAT isn’t enough. That’s the case even with those whom DEMAND agreement with all of their own views. They don’t need agreement, they need a whipping post.

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By cann4ing, December 26, 2008 at 7:29 pm Link to this comment

As addendum to my past post, Christian96—I have serious concerns that you are not being truthful when you say you attended graduate school and major doubts that you are a licensed psychologist.

Your 12/26 post reflects a lack of knowledge of basic English constructs, like paragraphs and sentence structure.

Finally, I note that you evaded a simple point I put forward.  In your earlier post you took great pains to tell me that biblical passage predicting End Times was written some 2000 years ago—the import being that we must pay attention because the author of the Bible predicted behaviors that you apparently believe are now coming to fruition—2nd Timothy 3:1-4:  “This know also that IN THE LAST DAYS perilous times shall come.  For people shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, lacking self-control, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God.”

So are you saying, Christian96 that we are now “IN THE LAST DAYS” because there are people who display such behavior?  Are you suggesting that there no one was, for example, “covetous” or “disobedient to a parent” “before” 2d Timothy 3:1-4 was written?

The plain and simple fact is that “every” human frailty that is listed in 2d Timothy 3:1-4 has been observed throughout recorded history—a history which goes back thousands of years “before” 2d Timothy 3:1-4 was written; a history that has continued, unabated, right up to the present.  So if the “sins” listed in 2d Timothy 3:1-4 have been with us throughout recorded history, how can the presence of those sins reflect “THE LAST DAYS?” 

No doubt, as a true believer, Christian96, you never thought to examine the internal inconsistency of 2d Timothy 3:1-4.  That’s because religion requires the true believer to abandon reason and accept whatever is written in the “Holy Book” on faith.

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By cann4ing, December 26, 2008 at 6:57 pm Link to this comment

Scary that you “taught biology,”  Christian96, and yet make statements in your post that reflect that you do not have a clue about the science of evolution.

I suspect your “teachings” are similar to those covered by Chris Hedges in an earlier TD article touching upon the pseudo-science of intelligent design and a supposed “museum” that had man and dinosaurs walking the earth at the same time.  Hopefully your “teachings” are limited to religious institutions for they have no place in public schools.

But I will give you credit, Christian96, for the degree to which you have diverted the discussion of an article about Dick Cheney’s legacy of deception and duplicity into a sermon on End Times.

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By christian96, December 26, 2008 at 6:42 pm Link to this comment

To SoD1——-I recall a book in graduate school titled
“trying to be rational with irrational people.”  That’s what I thought about when I read your irrational ranting and ravings.  Beside trying to
impress people with your vocabulary you didn’t say
much containing any substance.  If you are going to
make assertions then try as rationally possible to
substaniate them.

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By jackpine savage, December 26, 2008 at 6:26 pm Link to this comment

Always good to see the open-minded, inclusiveness of “progressives” on display…e.g. SoD1.

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By Tony Wicher, December 26, 2008 at 6:19 pm Link to this comment

Re SoD1, December 26 at 4:36 pm #

Oh please will you just shut up, Christan96!
——————————————————————————
SoD1,

I second the motion. We’re sick of the Bible around here. What a bore! There are millions of more interesting books to read than this collection of ancient myths and superstitions.

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By SoD1, December 26, 2008 at 5:36 pm Link to this comment

Oh please will you just shut up, Christan96!
You, like all the recently crawling out of their basement delusional as uneducated rotten Abrahamic Moronic Children simply an incredible ANNOYANCE lately!
You have like all People a statistical “knowledge” of the Bible which is only about 1%!
That is the same amount of Percentage one can attribute to every Fairy Tale to be factual. What consequently means if you take the Bible serious, you might in fact be nothing more than an Adult that so desperately wants to believe in a made-up FAIRY TALE, the oldest and biggest SCAM and Scheme human mind could ever have come up with.

Not only do I find it VERY disturbing that a Theocracy-supporting religious EXTREMIST- who does Nothing but distract from the most important “Wordly” issues-
to whom I would count you Christian96,  is ALLOWED to serve as a School Psychologist for public schools and thus BRAINWASH Children already with your nonsocial Beliefs and “Values” and as evidential on your illustrious reference to Timothy 3:1-4, your attempts of indoctrination and of even the youngest ones.
No, you are very wrong my dear in fairy tales believing friend, most People on this Site are intelligent enough and are familiar enough with the Bible to REJECT it as a pile of SHIT!
UNLIKE, the judicial impartiality and the worldwide very well known disingenuousness, Charlatanery and immense Stupidity (Sorry to say it that “harsh” but it is FACT!)  of the most vocal Abrahamic Followers

YOU must have forgotten that the most vocal supporters of Social Darwinism (Your Survival of the Fittests” Reference)  -among who Cheney is just one – are in MAJORITY conservative, GREED-driven, religiously brain-dead made little Foot Soldiers of the biggest Scheme in the entire Human History?  A Scheme called Organized monotheistic Religion/ The Abrahamic Religion.

1.In other Words Christan96,  your lamentable helplessness argument, the lachrymose monotony you very U.S.  “judea-christian’ typically exercised here, the laughable absurdity and self-destructive fallacies in and of your belief systems and your resulting fallacious agitations and “God’s Army” pamphleteering ARE in fact among the ROOT source of all.


Besides that your lifeless imbecile religious Ranting here was as totally unfitting, misguided and just a simple exercise of fishing for more “ god’s little Foot soldiers”/ proselytizing to spread your childish Words, wouldn’t it be advisable for you to take your “God’s Word”  away from here where People actually cares about real issues/REALITY and stick your fictions where someone cares??


“They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.” That phrase stands representative for all your religious FOOLS and in my Opinion is the only phrase that can even be considered coming close to anything like the “truth” in ANY of the Abraham nonsensical Book of Fairy Tales.  Just keep your FALSE and easily to rebut as “Tales” Lies with Fries in your four Walls and to yourselves, will you hmm?

“Godly” Day, nevertheless Christian96
SoD1

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By christian96, December 26, 2008 at 1:24 pm Link to this comment

Last night I spent a couple of hours reading an
article by Rev. Shockley on Truthdig, along with
the comments following the article.  The article
and comments reinforced my belief that most people
know very little about what is written in the Bible.
Beside being a university professor, I served as
School Psychologist for public schools.  Daily I saw
children who were suffering because their parent(s)
were practicing the beliefs and behaviors described
in 2nd Timothy 3:1-4.  Periodically, I make comments
about the Bible on this site because I believe most
people who read this site are educated intelligent
people but for various reasons are not familiar with
the Bible.  It is my hope that my comments will help
people better understand themselves and others.  However, I want to leave the Bible and discuss Chaney from my training as a counselor.  A counselor
tries to see the world through other peoples perceptions.  When I look at Nixon, Chaney, and other politicians, I ask myself, “What has happened
in these peoples lives to bring them to the point that they think and behave the way they do?”  One
answer stands out clearly.  They all attended college where they were taught in their Biology
class Darwin’s “survival of the fitest” doctrine.
I believe this concept has significantly influenced
their attitudes and behaviors.  However, the “survival of the fitest” doctrine may be true for other animals but it is not true for the human
animal.  Look at the way all humans were designed.
We had to be infants before we became adults.  Infants are helpless.  In fact, the human animal is
helpless longer than any other animal species.  When an infant is helpless, it must depend upon others
to provide its survival conditions (water, food, shelter, protection, language, etc.).  As adults, we like to think we are independent but we aren’t.  We
still need others to provide our survival conditions.  Just by the way we were designed we need one another.  After killing his brother Able,
Cain ask God, “Am I my brother’s keeper?” (Genesis 4:9)  The answer is a resounding YES.  We are our
brothers and sisters on earth keepers!  Instead of
following the “survival of the fitest” doctrine and
going into Iraq with an army, planes, tanks, and
other weapons for destruction what do you think might have happened if we had gone into Iraq with
food, water, shelter, and knowledge to help our
brothers and sisters in Iraq to build a society of
construction as opposed to destruction?  Well, I think I have written a small book.  I’ll quit.

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By cann4ing, December 26, 2008 at 11:06 am Link to this comment

Folktruther, your last post was a bit too cryptic for me to comprehend perhaps because you left off the word “knowledge” from Madison’s “knowledge will forever govern ignorance.”  The double post from our Bible-thumping poster, Christian96, does show, however, that the belief systems of the religiously indoctrinated are often impervious to reality-based evidence.

Maybe we should invest in a Christmas present for the poor man—a robe, fake beard, some Jesus sandals and a big sign that reads, “The End is Near!”  It perhaps would do no good to point out to the poor deluded fool that the “sins” listed in 2d Timothy 3:1-4 predate the Bible itself—making it somewhat odd that whoever wrote that section of the book of fairy tales would cite them as evidence of the “end of times.”

But then that is the great thing about religion.  It allows the unthinking to simply “believe.”  Marx was right.  “Religion is the opiate of the masses.”

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By felicity, December 26, 2008 at 10:47 am Link to this comment

As a Rep in the ‘80’s, Cheney opposed a ban on selling armor-piercing bullets;  opposed sanctions on apartheic-economy in South Africa;  voted against resolution calling for release of Mandela from prison;  voted for constitutional amendment banning school busing;  voted to ban Head Start;  voted against ERA;  voted against extending Clean Water Act;  opposed ban on guns that can escape detection through metal detectors.

His record as Vice should come as no surprise, and yet as usual in our politics past records and/or character of an individual seem to count for nothing, in fact we seem to have a penchant for putting absolute rotters in public positions of power.

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By jackpine savage, December 26, 2008 at 9:40 am Link to this comment

2nd Timothy 3:1-4:  “This know
also that IN THE LAST DAYS perilous times shall come.  For people shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers,
disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without
natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers,
lacking self-control, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers
of pleasures more than lovers of God.”

Do not be turned away from the truth by those who mistake the metaphor for reality.

There is Truth in the above words, but not that of punishment from an angry cloud being.  Simply replace the word “God” with the word “Wisdom” and see how you feel about the verse…

It becomes a recipe for destroying ourselves rather than bringing down the wrath of an angry God.  And those who need said God to be literal are those described by Timothy, except they believe that all of their behavior - described in the verse - is sanctioned by God…that it is made good by their belief.

They mistake the metaphor for the Truth, and in so doing ruin the metaphor for everyone else who might use it to see the Truth.

(And by the way, pick a book any book: Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, Zoroastrian, Native American “myth”, Muslim, Greek, Pygmy….  They all hold the Truth couched in metaphor.)

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By Jim Michie, December 26, 2008 at 7:05 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Oh yes, about the Cheney “legacy”: Lyndon Johnson, in his moments of disgust, sometimes said, “You can’t make chicken salad out of chicken s**t.” Wholly appropriate in describing the Cheney “legacy.”

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By Tony Wicher, December 26, 2008 at 12:31 am Link to this comment

re cyrena, December 24 at 3:46 am #

Meantime, I’m not so certain that Obama isn’t inclined to open the can of cheney worms just because of his nonpartisan ideology. In fact, I think Obama would be quite willing to open this can of worms and expose it to the light of day, IF he thinks it can be accomplished. That’s more in line with his hyper-pragmatic caution, and it’s also very much in keeping with the NONpartisan agenda. Crimes like those that have been committed against us, even though they were committed on a highly partisan foundation, have still been CRIMES against every last one of us! Going after these criminals isn’t a partisan or politically motivated exercise.
—————————————————————————-
cyrena,

If 9-11 and the anthrax were an inside jobs, many of the people responsible are still in high places all over the government. I don’t see how Obama can possibly get anything done under such circumstances. He will end up getting assassinated for sure. He’s got to investigate. He will try to keep it quiet as long as possible, but eventually there will have to be full public disclosure.

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By Folktruther, December 25, 2008 at 7:44 pm Link to this comment

Hear that, Cann4ing, Repent!  Repent before it’s Too Late!  Get down on your knees and pray!  Pray for that Undestanding that, both you and Madison agree, will always govern Ignorance. Not that its widely prevalent in the US.

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By christian96, December 25, 2008 at 4:32 pm Link to this comment

To:  cann4ing——-The Bible verses not only relate
to politicans in the article but to conditions in
the world and they were written 2,000 years ago.
Perhaps, the verses touched your life personally and
you became defensive.  If so, you can repent and
begin studying the “book of fairy tales.”  You might
gain an understanding of yourself and others.

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By christian96, December 25, 2008 at 4:09 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

To:  cann4ing———Perhaps you have had too much
Christmas cheer to drink if you can’t see how the
Bible verses not only relate to politicans mentioned
in the article but also to society in general and
these verses were written 2,000 years ago.  I am a
counselor.  Perhaps the verses became threatening
because they describe you.  If so, it’s not to late
to repent.

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By christian96, December 25, 2008 at 3:26 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

To:  cann4ing——-Not only did the Bible verses
relate specifically to the attitudes and behaviors
of the people in the article but they also relate
generally to conditions extant in the world.  I am
a counselor.  Perhaps the verses touched a nerve
personally.  If so, it’s not to late to repent.

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By cann4ing, December 25, 2008 at 2:24 pm Link to this comment

Gee, thanks Christian96 for the unsolicited quote from the book of fairy tales, aka, the Holy Bible even if it is not remotely relevant to the subject at hand.

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By christian96, December 25, 2008 at 2:13 pm Link to this comment

Merry Christmas (even though Jesus was not born on
Dec. 25th.)  As a present, I would like to share Bible scriptures from 2nd Timothy 3:1-4:  “This know
also that IN THE LAST DAYS perilous times shall come.  For people shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers,
disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without
natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers,
lacking self-control, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers
of pleasures more than lovers of God.”  Sound like
today?  WELCOME TO THE LAST DAYS!

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By Dale Headley, December 25, 2008 at 12:59 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Most Americans will never know how close they came to living under a fascist dictatorship.  But they should, because the ideologues are out there right now, regrouping and strategizing to gain the unfettered power they just came within a hairsbreadth of capturing.

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By cann4ing, December 25, 2008 at 11:22 am Link to this comment

By purplewolf, December 25 at 10:07 am #

Lanna please get back on your medication immediately!
—————————————-

Perhpas Lanna’s real name is Lynn, as in Lynn Cheney.  That would explain her bizarre post.

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By purplewolf, December 25, 2008 at 11:07 am Link to this comment

Lanna please get back on your medication immediately!

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By June Stincton, December 25, 2008 at 7:33 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

It’s a good day to die.

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By Verne Arnold, December 25, 2008 at 5:39 am Link to this comment

@ PSmith, December 24 at 11:32 pm;

Ah, nice one. Touche’

But don’t expect much from this bunch. They’ve found their niche and enjoy the vicarious thrill of believing they’re actually acting. You know, acting as in action. Am I too harsh, probably; but provoking thought is fun and sometimes evokes an interesting response. Perhaps I give myself too much credit, yes, I do, sorry, never mind. Yawn, it’s time for a nap; I’ve been awake far too long.

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By Purple Girl, December 25, 2008 at 4:36 am Link to this comment

One need only overlay the crimes of Nixon, and crimes committed during Ronnny to see a pattern, and it’s name is Dick Cheney.
What was terrifiying is it appeared McCain had chosen to sell his own soul to DICK fro the presidency.
How Did McCain “KNOW” the Anthrax came from Saddam, only days after the first ‘letters’ were sent out?
Before Chemical tests had not been completed?
WHO Told him it was OK to go on national late night TV and make such an Indictment against a Foreign leader? Who was so sure that the strain used would be matched with strains in Iraq? Who assumed we would find matching strains when we invaded?
The Anthrax was from OUR military Base, and who’s buddy also worked in the Nixon admin..Rummy,the Sec of Defense.Same Guys who Gave Saddam Anthrax in the ‘80’s are the same guys who cooked up the Anthrax attacks in ‘02.
Find Out WHO Told McCain the Anthrax came from Saddam (and to Tell Americans the LIE) and we’ll KNOW who actually committed those acts of terror on Americans.
Bush admin Plotted 9/11? I can’t say for sure.
Bush admin Plotted the Anthrax attacks, is far more plausible.Certainly more than the ‘mad scientist’ story they concocted

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By Verne Arnold, December 25, 2008 at 3:12 am Link to this comment

@ TAO Walker, December 23 at 10:01 pm;

Howdy, I hope you have more luck than I have. We leave horrible messes and then expect someone else to clean them up. I think we were slightly better in the 60’s (not to over romanticize it). Mr. Scheer has a business to run and sometimes it shows. The funny thing is; he comes off much better in his pod casts and panel discussion shows.  Why is that?
Tao Walker check your PM please. And thanks for the great post.

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By Folktruther, December 24, 2008 at 11:50 pm Link to this comment

Cann4ing, nothing would surprise me more than Obiden prosecuting the Cheney, Bush or Rumsfield for political crimes.  Because he is going to continue them.

He will most likely close Gitmo eventually so the US and its client states can torture people world wide with less visibility.  Obams’s chief intelligence adviser, Brennan, has maintained publically that rendition is a ‘vital tool.”  Obama wanted to appoint him to head the CIA.

But, I know, there is not enough evidence to state that Obama is continuing Bushite policies and I have a strong feeling, cann4ing, that for you, socialist that you are, heh, heh, there never will be.

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By SoD1, December 24, 2008 at 11:31 pm Link to this comment

If the ‘We, the People’ would not only dare to think out loud but speak out very loud about and demanding the Prosecution and the consequently resulting LEGAL Executions of the mayor players and culprits of the Bushism Administrations,  namely, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Rove, Paul, Wolfowitz (the entire PNAC and APIAC gang!) , Paulsen etc.- there would be - amongst many others-  these “Advantages” as a result:

a.) Every other son of a gun who ever should try to establish a similar Dictatorship or Theocracy similar to what Bushism did, will have to fear the same consequences. FEAR of the People can be a mighty Instrument against the Powerful ones, and what a fitting “Momentum” to utilize it consciously, constitutionally and well so, hmm?

b.) A International Tribunal- completely made public -  would not only be able to shade more lights on what happened during the last 8 years but on how it all happened and how to prevent such in the future.
Beside, a International Tribunal can hang them all head-over , shake their Wealth out of their Pockets, make their Families depend on Food Stamp and I would estimate bring the U.S. at least $500 Billion back in “stolen” Money.

c.)Such an evidence that the U.S. is able to apply by the Laws even against High-level former Presidential Gang members, would nearly eliminate every arguments – well, that would be if that little “problem maker” Israel would be made ‘equal’ and get sanctioned and thus forced to apply to International Peace Demands and not vis a versa – of the Terrorists and reassure the confidence in U.S. leadership and the “Free Market” Doctrine.
And it is all about remaining the absolute “No. 1”, aye?
So, What a little price to pay.

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By Tony Wicher, December 24, 2008 at 8:18 pm Link to this comment

Re hippy pam, December 24 at 7:16 am #

We got a little less than ONE MONTH….then-hopefully-all these criminals will be OUT OF POWER….But DON’T BET ON IT…..blackwater/bullshit can still PULL A FAST ONE….BE READY…..We CANNOT ALLOW “the bullshit bunch” TO KEEP POWER…......
—————————————————————————-
Fellow hippy,

Bush and Cheney will be out of office but their minions will still be all over the government. That is something Obama will have to deal with. He may want to be non-partisan but these are criminals who have subverted our democracy and they are still there scheming and running all kinds of rogue operations, black ops, assassinations. What about 9-11? What about the anthrax attack?

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By cann4ing, December 24, 2008 at 5:18 pm Link to this comment

“Vice President Dick Cheney has reportedly admitted to playing a greater role in the Valerie Plame leak scandal than previously known. Investigative journalist Murray Waas reports Cheney told federal investigators he rewrote White House talking points in a way that made it more likely the news media would uncover Plame’s identity as a covert CIA agent. The talking points emphasized Plame’s role in arranging her husband Joe Wilson’s fact-finding trip to Africa. Wilson later publicly revealed he found no evidence of the Bush administration’s pre-war claim Saddam Hussein sought to acquire uranium from Niger. According to Waas, investigators concluded Cheney failed to plausibly explain why he highlighted Plame’s role without thinking her identity would be revealed.”

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/12/24/headlines#4

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By cann4ing, December 24, 2008 at 4:20 pm Link to this comment

By Folktruther, December 24 at 11:03 am #

Where Cann4ing and progressives are wrong is that Obama is going to change things back again.  No, he is obvious charting a course to continue and consolidate the Bushite counter revolution.
__________________________

I don’t believe there is adequate evidence to support you on this.  The extent to which Obama will ultimately be swayed by Empire and the military industrial complex remains to be seen.  What is clear to all who have studied constitutional law, is that the positions of both Obama & Biden are manifestly at odds with the counter-revolutionary (reactionary) “Unitary Executive” theory, or what Jane Mayer describes as the “New Paradigm.” 

While it remains to be seen whether the DOJ under Eric Holder will have the wisdom and the courage to prosecute Cheney, Rumsfeld et al for war crimes, it is clear that Obama is repulsed by the very concept of “torture;” that he will quickly close Guantanamo and that he is being quite receptive to proposals coming from the ACLU and others for a restoration of the rule of law.  While I was deeply disappointed in Obama’s earlier concession on FISA, I think it quite likely that we will see the Obama administration roll back domestic spying.

But we’ve had this conversation before, Folktruther.  I remain of the opinion that you continue to try to paint Obama with an overly broad brush, sans adequate evidence to support your conclusions, and that the key will be in the details.

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By ocjim, December 24, 2008 at 3:32 pm Link to this comment

It remains to be seen whether the departure of “Darth (Cheney) Evader (Bush)” will change the complexion of the American democracy. They have always been bound – like the puppet and the puppeteer—to a single force of deceit toward the electorate and rancor toward dissenters.

The names are apt because Cheney has always represented the dark side, not only in terms of malevolence but also in terms of cloaked secrecy. Bush, on the other hand, has up to now evaded prosecution and skirted the truth, the latter in public statements as well as self-delusion.

Darth Cheney mocked Vice President-elect Joseph Biden for saying that he does not intend to have his own “shadow government” in the White House. Mr. Cheney said it was up to Mr. Biden to decide if he wants “to diminish the office of vice president.”

But what is evident to some 74% of the population is that Cheney’s mere presence in the office of the vice presidency diminished it immensely.

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By desertdude, December 24, 2008 at 3:05 pm Link to this comment

TO THE HAUGE AND PUT THEM ON TRIAL FOR WAR CRIMES

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By martin weiss, December 24, 2008 at 2:58 pm Link to this comment

also pitchforks and torches.
In the long run those who survive will be those with compassion and community. They and those like them have done very well without crime and slavery.
As to the legal liabilities of BushCo, anytime people in the military are jailed for following orders, the issuers of those orders are liable, too.
Cheney’s big lie will not protect him.
Aside from the brilliant and brave disruptive actions of Tim DeChristopher at the BLM auction, my thinking is the most effective method of asserting the will of the people is work stoppages, general strikes, just stop and sit down, like the UAW did in the thirties. But any other ideas will be considered. We definitely have to do something—and it should ideally be non-violent, both for strategic and philosophical reasons.
If Obama won’t fight, we will make it right.
Remember what they did to Kennedy when he threatened to stop the Vietnam War and abolish the CIA. One might say he was Wellstoned, like so many others.

But let’s not telegraph our punches or give away Obama’s strategy. No threats, no warnings, nothing online. When it begins, we’ll know.
In the meantime, look for a pre-emptive strike from the bad guys—both the terrorists and BushCo are on the same side in this. Get cameras and recording devices ready to document crimes against the people and the Constitution. Like violating the Posse Comitatus Act…

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By Margaret Currey, December 24, 2008 at 2:42 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Thank you purplewolf for the information I asked the question to Tao Walker but I assume that maybe you are also a Native American anyway now I have a new insight to the Indian Ways.

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By mill, December 24, 2008 at 2:09 pm Link to this comment

Wondering which planet Lanna is from .. must have just arrived here on Earth, or Lanna would know that Mr Cheney has spent the last almost 8 years lying about war to the American public while he and his oil patch buddies abuse the US military forcing it to act as private security for their oil grab in Iraq, all the while looting the American treasury through tax cuts and non-compete contracts for his wealthy friends and financial supporters

He really is a war criminal - he should be arrested, subject to extradition to a place where people still torture, and water-boarded until he confesses to his crimes.  nothing more or less than he has had done to a number of people, some guilty of something, but many innocent surely.

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By MAR, December 24, 2008 at 1:38 pm Link to this comment

It is too bad that the season has to be sullied by reminders of this evil man.  But then again, his demise as an influence is a great Christmas present for the whole world of people who believe in democracy.

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By Folktruther, December 24, 2008 at 12:03 pm Link to this comment

Cann4ing is quite right.  Cheney, with Rusfield and with Bush as a front man, led a counter revolution of the American political system.  He changed the system to essentially make a Superpresident a military dictator, unconstrained by law and Congress.
The same kind of political counter revolution that turned Rome from a Republic to an Empire.

Where Cann4ing and progressives are wrong is that Obama is going to change things back again.  No, he is obvious charting a course to continue and consolidate the Bushite counter revolution.

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By mendez, December 24, 2008 at 12:03 pm Link to this comment

Cheney is not the problem.  If the left would figure out that there are plenty more to fill his niche.  The problem stems from those who thought he did just fine, or from those who thought he had a right to break laws and carry on his own wars with our children and our money.  Civil disobedience means letting people you know - whether relatives, co-workers or friends - that they are now persona non grata because they felt that way.  Marching and protesting is meaningless if you go home and do business with scumbags who favor the Cheney’s of the world.  Let those scumbags know you don’t like them and don’t want any part of them again, and then maybe we see people starting to get it.

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By cann4ing, December 24, 2008 at 11:46 am Link to this comment

By Ed Harges, December 24 at 9:28 am #

Cheney simply does not understand the very basis of the American political system…
___________________________

Cheney, and his chief of staff, David Addington, understand the American political system and the constitution only too well.  They represent what Henry Kissinger described in his doctoral thesis as a “Revolutionary Power” that simply does not accept the legitimacy of the existing system.

As Paul Krugman observed in “The Great Unraveling”:

“When one is dealing with ordinary political movements, it makes sense to presume that their policy proposals, right or wrong, are made in good faith.  But when one is dealing with a revolutionary movement that does not accept the legitimacy of the existing system, there’s no reason to make that assumption.  Revolutionary movements, which aren’t concerned about the rules of the game, have no compunction about misrepresenting their goals.”

As revealed by Jane Mayer in a New Yorker piece, “The Hidden Power,” in the wake of 9/11 Cheney and Addington erected a theory of virtually unlimited presidential power—dictatorial power that cannot be checked by Congress or the Courts or even existing laws. 

According to Mayer, Addington dominated the agenda.  While Alberto Gonzales and John Ashcroft occupied significant positions of power as Counsel to the President and Attorney General respectively, only Addington was regarded as an “expert” in national security matters, Bruce Fein appears to question Addington’s “expertise” in Constitutional Law, noting the striking absence of “legal stature” inside the Bush legal team.  “It’s frightening.  No one knows the Constitution—certainly not Cheney.”

Fein’s observation understated the problem.  Addington, who graduated Summa Cum Laude from Georgetown University and received honors from Duke Law School, is described by numerous colleagues throughout the Mayer article as possessing a brilliant legal mind.  Addington is said to have a copy of the Constitution with him at all times.  He is also described as “doctrinaire and ideological.”  It is likely that Addington “knows the Constitution” only too well; that Addington is a “revolutionary” in the Kissenger sense who simply doesn’t accept our constitutional form of democracy and neither does Cheney. 

The danger posed by the doctrine these men advance will remain unless they are prosecuted for their crimes.

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By Willpen, December 24, 2008 at 11:36 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

First I would like to thank Mr Scheer for an insightful and profound look into the mind of Dick Cheney.  Whenever we, as Americans, allow ourselves to be lulled into a false sense of security we allow ourselves to fall prey to vindictive, hateful and power hungry men like Dick Cheney.

The fact that we are sitting and listening to what is undoubtedly and big “FU” in our faces, and we are allowing this to go on unchallenged.  There should be public outrage from every corner of this country with a demand to both fry Bush and Cheney and to stop this feeble attempt at rewriting history as THEY see it.  “We the People” has never been so profound a statement as now.

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By purplewolf, December 24, 2008 at 11:34 am Link to this comment

Margaret Currey:

Hoka Hey-It is a good day to die!

Often heard in Indian country, in other words, it is better to die than to live a life with no choices, freedoms and exist under the thumb of the oppressive ways of the white man.

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By Virginia777, December 24, 2008 at 10:47 am Link to this comment

For Dick Cheney to compare the Bush administration to the Lincoln presidency…

Is a clear example of the extent of the Delusion this evil man operates under!

Sick!

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By Ed Harges, December 24, 2008 at 10:28 am Link to this comment

Cheney simply does not understand the very basis of the American political system: the principle that to live under a tyrrany - by definition irreversible, with an unchecked capacity to inflict suffering on us all - is worse than any other calamity.

That includes the outside possibility of a terrorist attack, even a nuclear attack.

He thinks the risk of terrorism must be reduced to zero, which can only be done, theoritically at least, if we give up all our freedoms to a protecting Daddy government.

He doesn’t get it.

“Give me liberty or give me death”: that’s the essence of American political system, and Cheney does not get it. We don’t want to be as “safe” as he claims he can make us.

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By nrobi, December 24, 2008 at 10:22 am Link to this comment

We are now living in the age of “unreason,”  where people in power can do things like torture enemies, lie
to the people, deceive the world into believing “military intelligence,” that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, chemical and biological weapons that were as deadly if not more so than the “atomic weapons” (look for the rising mushroom cloud), and all the other “bad things,” that we have done in the name of “democracy and freedom.”
“If you think about what Abraham Lincoln did during the Civil War, what FDR did during World War II; they went far beyond anything we’ve done in a global war on terror.” Of Mr. Cheney’s statement here copied, what a load of bullshit!  No other administration in the history of the United States, invoked a right to set aside treaties that America instigated, and was signatory to. No other administration, through sleight-of-hand legal precedents set aside years of following the rules-of engagement concerning the use of TORTURE, and did this with a straight face all the while lying to the American people and the people of the World, so that the pockets of those involved in the reconstruction and oil business could line their pockets with ever more money.
It is appalling to think that these Wall Street Thugs
and Thieves of the corporatocracy may get away with the biggest crimes in the history of the world, because of the “non-partisanship,” of the next administration. Should they do so, then there must be
a citizens’ revolt and the thieves and scoundrels of the shrub’s administration be held accountable for the crimes against humanity that they have committed in the name of greed and avarice.
I, for one, will not rest, until these things have been accomplished and the culprits brought to account for crimes the likes of which we have never seen and will hopefully never see again.

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By bernard quatermass, December 24, 2008 at 9:04 am Link to this comment
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All who truly pay attention to reality, and shun the idiotic media information, understand that Lanna is clueless.

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By drbhelthi, December 24, 2008 at 8:40 am Link to this comment

At his central briefing in 1981, Reagan-Bush appointee, CIA chief William Casey stated, “We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false.”  Many major-public-media in the US are owned by quasi „NAZI-types“ who continue the disinformation process in the USA, indeed the western world.  Most public-media-puppets „show and tell” as they are instructed, if they want to keep their jobs.  Sometimes with over-smiley faces that depict fear.  A former friend of a J.D. Rockefeller son stated that he was told, “- once we have the computer chip in everyone, we won´t need to assassinate. Trouble-makers will simply have their chip turned off.“  Recent private airplane crashes, and slit wrists this week, suggest that the chip is still „pending.“  Soon, perhaps, its „NAZI-type“ proponents, also.

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By hippy pam, December 24, 2008 at 8:16 am Link to this comment

We got a little less than ONE MONTH….then-hopefully-all these criminals will be OUT OF POWER….But DON’T BET ON IT…..blackwater/bullshit can still PULL A FAST ONE….BE READY…..We CANNOT ALLOW “the bullshit bunch” TO KEEP POWER…......

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By kloe, December 24, 2008 at 7:37 am Link to this comment

Everyone’s comments here are without a doubt valid and its absolutely critical in my mind that members of this current administration (and even some of the previous administrations) be brought forth for intensive public scrutiny and investigation.  The problem is we cannot rely on PE Obama to bring forward a “commission” that would seriously investigate individuals and hold them accountable for either their negligence or outright criminal conduct.  I think the point that TAO Walker is making is that WE are going to have to take this step.  The question is how do WE accomplish this?  The common citizens need to either hold our representatives feet to the fire and/or build up a grass roots campaign to see that a fair, impartial yet aggressive investigation is carried out into the actions these representatives have carried out in the name of the “Global War On Terror”.

One of the very obvious reasons we cannot rely on PE Obama to create such a commission is because he would be potentially including himself in a future investigation.  He already has made it clear that he is going to continue the GWOT in his recent interview on 60 Minutes.  Furthermore, he is going to take troops out of Iraq and simply move them to Afghanistan, thus continuing this whole perpetual war propaganda based on the underlying notion that the U.S. is fighting the Global War On Terror.

So, really that leads us back to ourselves.  What can we really do?  Of course we should continue to voice our opposition to the policies our elected officials are taking but at a certain point, we need to make our “railing” against them into real action. This leads of course leads to how do we also force the major media outlets to start covering the protests and real opposition from ordinary citizens.  I just saw a piece on Democracy Now where Amy Goodman and a panel of journalists were discussing this very topic.  Unlike in Europe where the media is more apt to cover the protests (hence, possibly one of the reasons the French and Germans didn’t jump into the Iraq war with the U.S. and the U.K.) the major media outlets here in the States are the very culprits benefiting from these perpetual wars and the Global War On Terror in their ownership of subsidiaries under the same corporate umbrella.
(http://la.indymedia.org/news/2003/04/47530.php

I’m sure everyone here is aware of this conflict of interest that persists in the major media.  But the question still remains.  I’m really asking Truthdiggers this question seriously not just rhetorically.  I voice my concerns on this blog, I’ve sent e-mails to my Congresswoman, Senators in my State and others, to PE Obama, to representatives of the major media outlets.  It doesn’t seem to be enough.  I definitely do not advocate violence or rioting but I want to know what more can I do within the confines of the law that really does make government officials more accountable and the government policy more transparent.  At a certain point, WE must do more than just “rail” against these politicians.  WE must take responsibility for what they are doing in our name.

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By cyrena, December 24, 2008 at 5:57 am Link to this comment

“As far as Cheney is concerned, he was only trying to make a buck. Isn’t that what America is all about? Making money regardless of how many people you lie, cheat, steal and kill? Quite a lot of our politicians made good money off of the Iraqi “War on Terror”.”

~~~

Yeah Mike, Cheney has made a lot of money, (as has Rumsfeld, and have the Bushes…as always) but it’s beyond being about the money for people like cheney. It wasn’t about the money for Hitler, though I’m sure many people in his regime were enriched by his activities.  But with Cheney, it’s far more about the raw, unmitigated, unadulterated POWER!! Cheney has been working up to this for 30 years, and he’s been able to get away with it by basically remaining in the shawdows. The average American STILL never gives him much thought.

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By Lanna, December 24, 2008 at 5:52 am Link to this comment
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Thank you Mr. Cheney for all you’ve done. You’re an excellent example of an honest and fortified public servant. The world owes you an immense debt of gratitude.

All who truly pay attention to reality, and shun the idiotic media information, understand that Robert Scheer is clueless.

Thank God you have ignored the typical TruthDig postings.

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By jr., December 24, 2008 at 5:28 am Link to this comment
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The dick, in his latest television interview where he admitted responsibility for the waterboarding of detainees, was obviously showing the bush cronies how to handle themselves in public regarding those issues.  Unfortunately, as long as the law allows for the excuses “we did it in order to defend and protect the national security interests of america, it was nothing personal” it seems there isn’t much more that can be done against the culprits.  The law in a time of war does give the president’s office expanded powers it didn’t have in a time of peace for the protection and defense of the nations security.  Joe biden too is entitled to his opinion regarding the matter, though he was not under oath when he said it.  Also, with lou dobbs and followers continually yelling to lock-up the u.s. borders, well, now the government is better able to justify the massive spending for that purpose and it’s research.  If one wants to lay blame, lay the axe at the root, at the law, for encouraging things such as that to happen in the first place.  And let u.s. remember, it was the american government that financed bin laden hundreds of millions of dollars to fight in it’s ways, even in the 1980’s.

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By drbhelthi, December 24, 2008 at 5:17 am Link to this comment

Abuse of US Forces and civil service personnel has increased to the point at which only Patriot-Act-spy-agencies can carry out their illegal - legal missions. Americans have begun to apply the ancient wisdom of the original inhabitants of the North and South American continents, „what you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say,” to Bush family leadership since WWII. Can the clock be stopped before it strikes midnight?

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By Muckraker, December 24, 2008 at 5:17 am Link to this comment

When will the so called information media find the testicular fortitude to print the truth about the obvious lies of the official 9/11 story? This atrocity has Cheney written all over its bloody censored pages.

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By cyrena, December 24, 2008 at 5:06 am Link to this comment

By MzScarlett, December 24 at 12:33 am

•  “…torture didn’t begin with Cheney; see youtube power of nightmares; it is the history of this country to our shame. We trained the torturers & sent them out; to Chad, to Egypt, to Mexico, all around the world: shame everyone knows this EXCEPT the American people…”

Well MzScarlett, you are one smart Mz.  wink
Thanks for the reminder about “The Power of Nightmares”. I was astounded myself, when I first saw that film about 3 years ago. (It was actually assigned as an extra credit assignment for a course I was taking at the time.)

As for our training of torturers here, that’s been long and on-going as well, yet you’re right that the American people know nothing of it. The School of the Americas, (now renamed the Western Hemisphere something or other to escape it’s reputation) trained ALL of the torturers who devastated South America in Salvatore, Columbia, Guatemala and so many others. But you’re right, most Americans don’t know anything about this. I can’t say that it’s entirely our fault, since the ‘rulers’ have done a damn good job of distracting us, and that isn’t ‘new’ either.

Anyway, thanks for the prompt about the film. I remember trying to find it shortly after I watched it on campus, but it wasn’t being widely circulated (or even available in the US if I remember correctly) at the time.

I’m gonna search for it now, since I’d like some of my associated ‘youth’ to view it as part of their sometimes forced but on-going education.

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By cyrena, December 24, 2008 at 4:46 am Link to this comment

•  “If you think about what Abraham Lincoln did during the Civil War, what FDR did during World War II; they went far beyond anything we’ve done in a global war on terror.”

Thanks for including this quote Mr. Scheer. I never heard him say this. It’s another clue to just how meticulously he’s planned this 8 year operation, and gotten away with it. That he would make such a reference to other historical times of Constitutional Crises based on the State of Exception, speaks as much to long ago planning than it does to last minute ass covering.  The ass-covering was worked out in advance on this, which is what the Military Commissions Act did in respect to most of these crimes, on a retroactive scale.

Needless-to-say, the comparison to Lincoln and FDR is absurd, and typically -  cynically, Cheney. The “GWOT” is one of his greatest inventions, (or that of his frankenstein staff) and he has worked it so obsessively that I wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t believe it himself by now.

•  “The invocation of a “global war on terror” is a big-lie propaganda device that has no grounding in reality.”

and then:

•  “The Bush administration, with Cheney in the lead, did not so much fight the danger of terrorism as exploit it for partisan political purpose.
This is exactly why I believe that Cheney et al CREATED 9/11!! He took bin Laden’s pipe dream and made it a reality, because it couldn’t have happened WITHOUT HIM!!

That’s why I don’t entirely agree with you here Bob,  even if it’s just a matter of semantics.

•  “The record is quite clear that the administration was asleep at the switch before 9/11, blithely ignoring stark warnings of an impending attack.”

Maybe some of the gang was asleep at the switch, (or gagged with metaphoric knock-out drops) but I’m sure Cheney was perfectly well aware of EVERYTHING that was going to transpire on (and in the days and weeks leading up to) 9/11.

I didn’t know you’d asked this question in a previous column either:

•  “As I asked in a column on June 26, 2002: “Has the war on terrorism become the modern equivalent of the Roman circus, drawing the people’s attention away from the failures of those who rule them? Corporate America is a shambles because deregulation, the mantra of our president and his party, has proved to be a license to steal.”

I would mark TRUE here. Roman circus might even be an understatement on the distraction level.

Meantime, I’m not so certain that Obama isn’t inclined to open the can of cheney worms just because of his nonpartisan ideology. In fact, I think Obama would be quite willing to open this can of worms and expose it to the light of day, IF he thinks it can be accomplished. That’s more in line with his hyper-pragmatic caution, and it’s also very much in keeping with the NONpartisan agenda. Crimes like those that have been committed against us, even though they were committed on a highly partisan foundation, have still been CRIMES against every last one of us! Going after these criminals isn’t a partisan or politically motivated exercise.

Meantime, legal minds are notoriously cautious in committing themselves to such an effort before the details of the job are even available. Obama only knows what’s in the public record, and what the Congress has done in enabling so many of this Administration’s crimes. Putting together a realistic case against these guys…one that will actually yield results, could take years. That’s why Cheney is so confident. Actually, it could possibly happen even quicker at the International Level, and Obama may very well be putting together a staff that can assist with on that end. There are a few ways to go about going after Cheney, and there’s no reason to believe that Obama hasn’t considered them all, just because he hasn’t posted any schedule for how he plans to do it.

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