Sephared—What Pastor is Obama going to use, then? (None, I wish!) Do you have any idea? It seems that every president uses a christian pastor.

It is not that I think that he is going to use Warren for advice on social policy (I hope not!) It is just a pattern of , to me, making it seem like that last 8 yrs of societal evangelism, is ok, just a “differwnt viewpoint”. I dont think that that is true. There has never been another religion, in recent times, that has tried so hard to inject itself into the govt of the uS.

The problem with evangelism, as practiced by Warren, and others, is that, its very beliefs insist that they insert themselves into peoples’ personal lives , in order to save them from the most terrible fate imaginable! If they really believe that to be true, would they stop at anything to ‘save their brothers from that kind of hell”?

I worry that people who dont live in states where there are alot of evangelicals just dont know how ‘rabid” these people can be…

It is time that someone stopped the evangelicals judgemental wing of the christian church.That is my opinion.

It seems that the Obama administration will have to find troops from other sources to do more nation building as up to 35 brigades may need to be left in Iraq as reported by Global Report. Then again he only promised to remove the combat troops, 15 brigades or so.

The US will have troops in Iraq much longer than 2011, Gates is planning to send an additional 20,000 troops to Afghanistan bring the total to approximately 54,000 soldiers on the ground. We still haven’t found what we were looking for in Afghanistan.

Gates and general McKiernan were quoted while traveling to Afghanistan “Let’s put it in historical perspective — this country has been at war for the last 30 years,” General McKiernan told reporters, using the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979 as the starting point. “Thirty years. That’s not going to stop overnight. So if your question is, might it get worse before it gets better, the answer is yes, it might.”

Blundering our politicians have not stopped blundering since Vietnam what makes anyone think they will stop now.

KDelphi;

Warren is a fascist zealot.

The APPARENT “lack of it” in our present president, may have made many people put too much emphasis on intelligence. It is underastandable, and, more is better than less. (although Bush was never stupid in the common sense of the term).But , it is certainly not, in itself, enough. I am thinking some of the things you are…but, also , some other problems…

Pastor Warren is a big problem..

Sepharad—sounds good to me! (Who have you heard on td that defends Mugabe or the Janjaweed?)

It is not “isolationism”—we need to regroup and rethink our place among other nations. We are a f*cking mess! If the Asian countries crack down on buying up our debt—we will have no choice! This could be our salvation…to force us to get our own house in order..

If we are continue our current foreign policies (including “war on terror”) we are screwed. We will stay broke, despised, and, we’re not “helping” anyone anyway.

Black Hawk Down was a direct result of our policies in other Muslim countries..it was also, conveniently, made into a movie in January 2002—right in the middle of “US heroics jingoism”.

Alot of that fight was actually done, by Malaysian allies..I saw the original tapes. They made me throw up—really.I thought of mothers, siblings, etc.

Then, I thought, who made such a drastic mistake? I guess opinions might differ, ie, military, civilians on the ground, Malaysians, etc. But, if BHD was “helping” someone , I sure as hell dont know who.

It may be that other countries may want a government of democracy, but it damn sure is not the american style which is anything but a democracy. Here is a little piece from msnbc on South Korea’s response to a ‘free trade’ agreement with the US:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28295945/

There are a lot of people waking up to the BS the US spreads for a very few people’s benefit. ‘Trickle down’ is not an option for a lot of people these days.

This is a great thread, I’m sorry I missed it.

Purplegirl your comments are much appreciated.

If only we could spend as much energy communicating outside of our circle as we do amongst ourselves.

William Pfaff, I love the irony.

Truthdig, keep it up!

There isn’t any one out there-if they have half a brain-wanting to be like america…...we have no jobs-illiterate children-no health care-we are fat-many are on welfare[and like it that way]-our infrastructure[roads-bridges-wiring-piping] is ancient and crumbling-our kids have no values-and we are arrogant.Most of us don’t even want to BE LIKE AMERICA.

Amen Spirtgirl!!

You always say it so well:

•  “..You are starting from the premise that those nations want “to be like America” - that is not what they want!  And America needs to wake up to the fact that “we are not free”, “we are not democratic”, “we are not fair” either in our dealing with each other in this nation or the nations that we do dealings with! We need to establish the “rule of law” here in this country - first off IMPEACHMENT of the whole Bush Administration!”

In all fairness, I don’t know if Pfaff actually writes from this premise, though I can see where it might seem that way. I think more to the point though, is that the average American DOES believe that all other nation states “want to be like America.” Surely that’s what the current Imperial Dynasty has determined to instill in the mindprint of the world. Americans have been socialized to believe that, and for those who don’t have a frame of reference to which they can make their own comparisons, (and most Americans don’t, because most Americans don’t move about the globe that extensively) it almost becomes cultural/traditional “USA” mentality, or dare I say a dangerous form of nationalism.

One thing that Pfaff does NOT distinguish though, is the difference between the US hedgemonic understanding of “democracy” and the understanding that everyone else in the world has. Pfaff seems to imply, (or it could be my own interpretation) that these countries are rejecting the consideration of democratic societies in part because it doesn’t coordinate with the culture of the Middle East. But I would argue that many of the societies or nation states are perfectly welcoming of a democratically based government structure.  What American’s don’t get is that it doesn’t have to be ANYTHING like the alleged US version of “Democracy”. It can ONLY be a democracy if the people form it themselves, since the Laws of any given society can only be written and agreed upon in terms of the culture, (or diversity thereof) of the society that is governing itself.

Democracy cannot be ‘exported’ between nation states, and legal systems cannot be transplanted so casually either, because the culture and traditions of the population that plans to govern itself obviously have to be part and parcel of the set-up. Otherwise, it’s not a “Democracy”.  Instead, it’s the same as it’s always been whenever the geopolitical highrollers of the West have been in action…Colonialization.

So, it’s never been about Liberation, or Nation Building, or spreading democracy with the current thugs at all. Not in Afghanistan, and not in Iraq. It’s been about the standard invade and conquer to capture the resources as well as the geopolitically strategic positioning in the Middle East. That’s all this has ever been about. Destabilization being the first step in the colonization of a resistant indigenous population. And why the hell shouldn’t ANY Indigenous population reject and resist the presence of a foreign entity? That seems like a no brainer for anyone. But, I know it isn’t. 

The scariest part is that for those who can figure that out, and figure it out quite well…like Dick Cheney, it doesn’t matter. Cheney never claimed to be doing any “Nation Building” in Iraq or Afghanistan, and Rumsfeld very specifically stated that the US was NOT into nation Building.
Of course not. They were into ‘resource appropriation’. That was always a primary prong of the agenda, and in that, they’ve been overwhelmingly successful…having lined their pockets with sums of money that I can’t even begin to imagine.

This is of course the root of most of the evil, so it’s imperative that Obama have a crystal clear understanding of this, if he really wants to accomplish the kind of overhaul that is the only salvation. I hope he gets it.

Hell, I dont even want to “be American” anymore…

Make that “no doubt, Pfaff.”

No dounbt Pfaff.

“It will start from scratch in “rogue,” “failed” and other distressed Middle Eastern, South Asian and African states, to build them up into modern democracies.”

You are starting from the premise that those nations want “to be like America” - that is not what they want!  And America needs to wake up to the fact that “we are not free”, “we are not democratic”, “we are not fair” either in our dealing with each other in this nation or the nations that we do dealings with! We need to establish the “rule of law” here in this country - first off IMPEACHMENT of the whole Bush Administration!  Next with the crooks that have both driven this economy off the cliff, and now want to be bailed out!

There’s the assumption, voiced by Rice and wafting through the hallowed halls of DC like swamp gas, that everyone in the world really wants to be an American. As long as that pernicious assumption continues, America’s imperial romps will continue.

As to the high cost of our invasion, when the troops leave, if ever, will the contractors leave also?  A Blackwater security guard makes $1,222/day (a sergeant $41/day, a sunni militia fighter $16/day, Petraeus {made} $493/day). If not, and if future empire-building sieges include the likes of Blackwater, we can forget 90 percent of Obama’s projected programs ever getting off the ground.

Just think of the waste.  A 100 Billion failure in reconstruction of Iraq.  Just one of the failures.  Listen to Amy and her first report on:

http://www.democracynow.org

Then another with 50 Billion with ole Uncle Ben Madoff.  Shame…shame..shame..now all this is coming out in the 1st decade of 2000.  What else is in the wind?

Easy Now! We’d better focus on Reclaiming OUR nation First. We are not a Democracy Nor are We a Free market. We are the last frontier to be conquered by the Corps, and we are almost there.
Really Now, we must Reclaim our constitutional Rights, Our Free and Fair Elections, Access to the Free market that serves Citizens (not brick & mortar), Equalize our Civil and Human rights….Basically Recapture OUR Declaration of Independence from any source which attempts to hinder the Country Built For the People and By the People.
I really see little difference between ‘Merry Ol’ English rule and this current ‘nobility’ of Corporations. Trickle Down was the Obvious Economic statedgy which Pissed Our ancestors off enough to wage a ‘ice cubes chance in hell’ War over. Family Crest or Logo is Irrelevant! Case in Point: Just Gave CitiGroup 300 billion. I just got my monthly Citibank credit card statement…They just jacked up the Default rate to 29.99%-  One payment late or missed.And we are card members in Good Standing! And they are not alone in this ‘screw them both ways to sunday’.
Control over OUR industry,Our Wages, our health, our finances, our education, our incarceration, Our Retirement, Our energy, Our food, OUR DEFENSE… has been given over to a Corp entity…‘to big to Fail’...Oh they fail constantly, It’s only that WE must now not allow them to fail once they have.
The goal of any Big Corp is to LIMIT the Competition, not encourage it. Thus is is the antithesis of a Free Market Doctrine.
Granted some industries require mass amounts of labor, thus having such large entities are benficial to the people- ie manufacturering.But Others are detrimental not only to the system, but the to citizens ei- energy, Financial. Isn’t it obvious Repugs hate the free market doctrine, since they hate when workers (citizens) trade their labor as a commodity on the market -esp collectively. Ok to drive up Oil Prices to increase profit margins, but citizens can not try to get the best return on their investment of labor? Wages and benefits ah? Why is a CEO able to negotiate a Salary, but a line worker is not? It’s not only undermines the Free market concept at it’s core, but undermines the doctrine which it canolevers off…Democracy is a Gov’t of Individuals Not Multinational conglomerates.
If you are going to Fly the Ameircan flag, You do not crush competition, Nor undermine the Workforce and certianly do not Screw the customer!
If We can Get that Corrected, We won’t have to go to other countries to ‘liberate’ them, they will once again look towards US as an example worth emulating. If we can do it so can They.
Really who thinks anyone wants to emulate US for the last 8 yrs? It’s been a disgrace and a travesty!

No wonder one would want to change the subject - for a moment or for a lifetime. The thought of “The Washington foreign policy community”  working on an idea - especially one involving the ghastly Condoleezza Rice - is too gruesome to contemplate for long. The only thing more unnerving is the chilling thought of the Obama hacks “signed onto” it and picking up the cudgel.  It’s a little puzzling how “The United States will attack the sources of the problem of terrorism. It will start from scratch in ‘rogue’,  ‘failed’ and other distressed Middle Eastern, South Asian and African states, to build them up into modern democracies”. Peachy. The world can’t even agree on a common definition of ‘terrorism’, let alone precisely define the sources of it. Nor can it fully agree a definition of ‘democracy’. Right now, in Gaza, - probably the most “distressed” (stillborn) ‘state’ - hundreds of thousands of people are mired in squalor and starvation because they voted the wrong way in a free and fair election that was disapproved by the U.S. and Israel.  Hamas, the victor in the democratic election is branded a ‘terrorist organization’ by Israel and its U. S. and European vassal states. At the same time, Israel and its Western lackeys refer to themselves as ‘democracies’. The ‘rogue’ ‘failed’ administration of Bush & Rice in collusion with the ‘rogue’ failed’ administration of Ohlmert and Livni (and predecessors) “expanded and fundamentally changed terms” to suit ulterior aims. Just like they “expanded and fundamentally changed terms” of the explanation of the motives for the invasion of Iraq. America has probably killed a million or more in Iraq in this latest assault, but it was never originally - or even now - “in order to liberate them”. The original pretext was about WMD. It’s not at all clear that neo-con planners - most of them with dual loyalty to Israel - ever had any intention of building genuine democracy in Iraq even if they did have the “policies and technical capacity [and] the organizational structure that would be needed to undertake” it. Remaking other countries “in the American image.”  would only mean supporting a corrupt ruling elite who swindle and supress their own population, the same as in the U.S. itself. The experience of Hamas would convincingly argue against any belief in the sincerity of America’s democratic intentions in the Middle East at least, and no doubt elsewhere. The very idea of a ‘rogue’, ‘failed’ Secretary of State like Condoleezza Rice even making such an announcement is enough to give it the lie. For Obama Copacabana and his Likudnik retreads to expand on such notions should cause a lot more Iraqi and Palestinian shoes to fly. AIPAC stooge Obama and his new rogue Sec. of State Hillary have pledged to maintain the diplomatic embargo on the democratically-elected government of Hamas, while the ‘democratic’ state of Israel continues its military/economic embargo ‘Crime Against Humanity’.  “Five years after embarking on its largest foreign reconstruction project since the Marshall Plan” an obscure Iraqi journalist shouted at the American rogue president’s farewell Baghdad news conference,  “you dog!”— “I would think this should be written in fiery letters over the portal of the future president Barack Obama’s National Security Council.”

Deficit spending leads to mandatory conscription, lack of employment leads to economic conscription and conscription into the military leads to………….

It seems to me that this is the only way to wake people up, once forced to choose between the lottery of death or becoming a criminal we may find many more people willing to take the risk of fighting back.

It’s a hard road.

Then, WHY isnt it “written in fiery letters over Obama’s Natl Security Council..”?? One reason, is ,that , he is keeping Gates…and others..

It the same article , you say that Obama’s Team has all but “signed on” for the “war on terror”..

So someone doesnt think that the US is failing, just Dubya?? LOL! The US LET this happen folks! Democrat, GOP and Independents! Only a brave few in Congress spoke up…

It was pretty lonely out on street corners and in front of military bases this time, too…where were all out Democratic, peace-loving (except for “war on terror”) “liberals” in the Democratic Party? Busy censoring Kucinich?

BTW—where are they Now?! For realizing that the “war in Iraq was a mistake”, I dont see any of those wise people , who knew it was a mistake , on his Team…

Another HUGE mistake, was the use of all these private contracots, but, not a single politician has made any serius attempts to reign them in.

So this is the great progressive plan more gun barrel democracy. Now thats really a CHANGE. So much for social justice.

Stupid me no such thing as the N.W.O, and there is no warrant for kissengers arrest as awar criminal.

I know, Iknow it will all be different next January.

“Nation-building” (and its complement, nation-destroying) is a necessary component of the global domination and world empire the U.S. ruling class is determined to achieve and maintain—or at least participate in, if they can’t control it completely.  There will always be unsatisfactory nations which, like Vietnamese villages, they will have to destroy in order to save; save meaning to install democracy meaning capitalism meaning domination by foreign corporations.

Apparently the only fiery letters which the monarchical president and his acolytes can see are “Hail, Caesar.”  But in truth we may be present at Belshazzar’s feast.

The US isn’t blundering, it’s criminal hijackers are, they are destroying the USA in cahoots with a crooked press. These criminals will do and say anything it takes to steal our money and power. 

We must take it back.

Pastor Wright WAS right!  The chickens are coming home to roost. 

And at what price to the people responsible for this?

The screw ups cost LIVES!!  Who pays??
The screw ups cost money!!  Who pays??

Bush and the rest of the politicians will retire and collect their pay.  The rest of the world suffers.

Where is the GOD DAMNED justice???

I’m glad that man threw his shoe at our president.  It’s starting a movement.  I hope it keeps going.

Cann4ing, quoting Chalmers Johnson, states the crux of the matter in two short paragraphs. And then supports Obiden who is bent on continuing Bush’s War On Terrorism masking US military imperialism.

Johnson, in the last book of his triolgy NEMESIS, also stetes that what is most likely to stop US militarism is economic bankruptcy.  It would also help to mobilize the population against the warterrorism that the US is practicing.

I agree in principle that the American people should attack the sources of the problem of terrorism. And that’s why they should start at home with the terrorists from within.

There in America the worst form of state-sponsored terrorism! There is in America economic terrorism by the greedy criminals put in charge of the chickens sheds! There is in America moral terrorism against the poor and the disadvantaged! There is in America thought terrorism by certain ivy league institutions against public education! There is in America economic terrorism practiced by the 1% dirty rich against the crushed and indebted masses!

And I can go on and on describing the different forms of terrorism practiced by the political-military-industrial-Wall Street establishments against the average American citizen! And that’s why Americans should turn to fighting terrorism from within!

In “Nemesis” Chalmers Johnson observed that since “1947, while we have used our military power for political and military gain in a long list of countries, in no instance has democratic government come about as a result.” 

“Liberation” and “spreading democracy” are the traditional linguistic cover designed to hide the venality behind imperial conquest.  The image of the U.S. as a benevolent world savior which engages in “nation-building” is a convenient myth that has no bearing on the reality of the corporate global project.