Top Leaderboard, Site wide
Truthdig: Drilling Beneath the Headlines
April 27, 2017 Disclaimer: Please read.
x

Statements and opinions expressed in articles are those of the authors, not Truthdig. Truthdig takes no responsibility for such statements or opinions.







Truthdig Bazaar
ENTER_ALT_TEXT

Liberating the Schoolhouse

By Wellford Wilms
$19.00 Buy direct from the publisher - Use Truthdig discount code TD35

more items

 
Report
Email this item Print this item

We Told You So

Posted on Dec 11, 2008

By David Sirota

Please, forgive me for saying it. I know it’s a tad annoying, but it has to be said to America’s ruling class in this humble column. Because if it’s not said here you can bet it won’t be said anywhere else in the media, and it needs to be said somewhere on behalf of the millions of citizens who were right.

We told you so.

In the slow-motion train wreck that became the current economic meltdown, our bipartisan political establishment and the sycophantic punditburo have been wrong over and over and over again. They told us that eviscerating consumer protections would unleash the market’s benevolent power and boost the economy. They told us that a trillion-dollar Wall Street bailout would solve a credit crisis. They told us that bailout would be subjected to intense oversight and scrutiny.

      Wrong, wrong and wrong—and when critics predicted just that, sneering commentators and congressional leaders berated us as know-nothing Luddites, conspiracy theorists, or both.

But with the release of three new reports, there’s no debate anymore about who was correct and who wasn’t. The studies prove that the critics were right and the ideologues of Washington were wrong.

Advertisement

Square, Site wide
When in 2005 Congress overwhelmingly passed a credit card industry-written bill gutting bankruptcy laws, progressives were right to try to stop it—and not just because it was an immoral move to legalize usury. We were right because as the New York Federal Reserve Bank reports, the bill played an integral role in the recent foreclosure surge that crushed the economy.

In the past, bankruptcy laws made sure debtors first and foremost continued paying their mortgages so they could stay in their homes. But the 2005 legislation effectively compels debtors to first pay off their credit cards, meaning many then have no money left to pay their mortgage. The Fed’s report estimates that the bankruptcy bill is causing 32,000 more foreclosures per quarter than the economy would have already generated.

We told you so.

When almost every media voice in America was sounding the alarm of financial panic and demanding a Wall Street bailout plan; when bailout opponents were roundly ridiculed as “irresponsible” by politician and pundit alike—those opponents were nonetheless right to say then what a study from the Minneapolis Federal Reserve Bank says now: that the case hadn’t been made.

While reporters and the Bush administration frantically insisted that bank-to-business lending had ceased, inter-bank lending had stopped and short-term “commercial paper” loans had dried up, the Minneapolis researchers tell us that “all three claims were false” and continue to be false; that “nobody has explained how the money system has frozen when the data says it has not”; and that “a trillion dollar intervention warrant(ed) a bit more serious analysis.”

We told you so.

When lawmakers said the bailout included strict oversight measures, skeptics were right to say that claim was patently untrue. According to a new analysis by federal officials at the Government Accountability Office, virtually nonexistent oversight of the bailout means “taxpayers may not be adequately protected” and that the bailout’s stated goal of fixing the economy “may not be achieved in an efficient and effective manner.”

Yes, we told you so.

And so now, even though these damning reports have garnered scant news coverage, perhaps there will be a change. As we, the pragmatic progressive majority, demand tough new financial regulations, job-creating investments in public infrastructure, labor law reforms, universal health care, revised international trade policies, a repeal of the odious bankruptcy bill and an end to Wall Street welfare, maybe, just maybe, our humiliated rulers will start listening.

David Sirota is the best-selling author of the books “Hostile Takeover” (2006) and “The Uprising” (2008). He is a fellow at the Campaign for America’s Future and a board member of the Progressive States Network, both nonpartisan organizations. E-mail him at ds@davidsirota.com.

© 2008 Creators Syndicate Inc.



Lockerdome Below Article
Get a book from one of our contributors in the Truthdig Bazaar.

Related Entries

Get truth delivered to
your inbox every day.



New and Improved Comments

If you have trouble leaving a comment, review this help page. Still having problems? Let us know. If you find yourself moderated, take a moment to review our comment policy.

Join the conversation

Load Comments

By g.cranshaw, May 6, 2009 at 2:17 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

what do call it when a company contiune to do something over and over again what it called in the law?

Report this

By Suzie Kidder, December 17, 2008 at 4:33 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

And, of course, there is another option.  We fired your CEO President in November, and we fired a handful of your Executive V.P.s in the Legislature at the same time.  We can fire a few more if they don’t appear to be listening by the time they’re up for re-election in 2010.

And in the meantime we can always “vote with our money” - what’s left of it.  We can choose a bank that doesn’t treat us like dirt - hint this would more likely be a local credit union than Citibank or BofA.  We can invest in “other than the stock market” until Wall Street cleans up its act - if ever.  We can search for someone from whom to get a credit card that Jesus wouldn’t have thrown out of the temple - hint, that would not be Citibank, JPMorgan Chase, MBNA/BofA, or CapitalOne. 

Worms can turn.  And I think I see some very hopeful signs that we’re beginning to do just that.

Report this

By Prove Our Democracy, December 15, 2008 at 9:55 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

They are taking taxpayer money to gain financial control over taxpayers…and so have already won what they wanted according to Rep. Dennis Kucinich’s economic advisor, Dr. Michael Hudson, who states that the goal was to create 500 billionaires to rule over an impoverished world for a century.

from:

  “The New Kleptocracy” with economist Dr. Michael Hudson on Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson’s “Plan” passed by Congress on October 3, 2008.  We discuss what is being purchased, the congressional vote, what this means for the oligarchs, and what this means for the rest of us.

http://www.kpfa.org/archives/index.php?arch=28790

http://www.michael-hudson.com/

Creating 500 billionaires to rule for a century.

Report this

By KDelphi, December 14, 2008 at 12:38 pm Link to this comment

Nice. More name-calling, parsing words, excusing, rationalizing….

Also, just ignoring others’ posts, and links, that very clearly state why they are taking positions.

Talking about “THEM”!!!

Political White Dwarfism is setting in on the DLC…

Desperation—-expect more vitriolics…

” A white dwarf is what stars like our Sun become after they have exhausted their nuclear fuel. Near the end of its nuclear burning stage, such a star expels most of its outer material, creating a planetary nebula. Only the hot core of the star remains. This core becomes a very hot (T > 100,000K) young white dwarf, which cools down over the course…..”

An Artist’s conception of the evolution of our Sun (left) through the red giant stage (center) and onto a white dwarf (right)http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/science/know_l2/dwarfs.html

So our white dwarf survives, not by internal fusion, but by quantum mechanical principles that prevent its complete collapse.

Report this
Outraged's avatar

By Outraged, December 13, 2008 at 10:49 pm Link to this comment

Re Cyrena:

Your comment:  “WHAT “choice” of Larry Summes Outraged? WHAT was he ‘chosen’ for, and how do YOU know? And, tell me what ‘concerns about his ‘pick’ I ‘refused’ to address.”

You’re kidding right…?  From WSJ Marketwatch:

“Lawrence H. Summers to Head National Economic Council
Today President-elect Barack Obama announced his intention to name Lawrence H. Summers as Assistant to the President for Economic Policy and Director of the National Economic Council.”

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Lawrence-H-Summers-Head-National/story.aspx?guid={2E6ED23A-1B64-47B3-8C80-172BC59C60C4}

Or if you prefer, from The New American:
“The top economic advisers chosen by Obama — Timothy Geithner and Lawrence Summers — have no experience whatsoever in producing wealth.”

http://www.thenewamerican.com/reviews/commentary/582-the-obama-economic-team

This makes your following comment incredibly ill-informed,  “What ‘pick’? Pick for WHAT? Do you have any idea how incredibly stupid this sounds in writing Outraged? I haven’t responded on Summers or Rubin, because contrary to what you write here, (prompted by media punditry who dictate what the sheeple will absorb and how they will absorb it) neither of these individuals has been named or nominated to a cabinet post, OR ANY OTHER official place in Obama’s administration. So, neither you or anyone else knows what place they have on his ‘team’.”

Your comment: “I don’t Outraged, and a careful perusal of the ‘history’ of these people doesn’t tell me a damn thing about what they are saying to Obama NOW.”

>> Ooookay…, I think that sums it up….

Your comment: “and that has everything to do with DEREGULATION LEGISLATION, which is something that you don’t have a clue about, and again….MORE IMPORTANTLY….YOU DON’T WANT TO HAVE THAT KNOWLEDGE!!! You do NOT want to consider how the bureaucracy works, because your only ‘direction’ is negative and reactionary, and TOTALLY biased!  AND NEVER MIND THOSE PESKY DETAILS.”

>> You claim to “know” what I think, my, my, my…is that a skill or a gift?  Do you find yourself “knowing” what everyone thinks or is this specific to me.  Either way, for good measure let me know what I think about what you think about what I think.  Thanks.

Even though this is still hashing over that “you know what I think” issue, there’s a twist to this one.  Stay with me now…. this is slightly more difficult.

First you said this about me:

“and your unquestioning support for losers and crackpots, Rubin and Summers make nice scapegoats, because you don’t really need to connect the dots or the wiring. You don’t NEED to know what their place is on Obama’s team, because…well, you just don’t like them, and you’ve got all the dirt to prove what overall scumbag people they are. (at least I guess you’ve got the ‘proof’) For people like you, the facts or the reality simply don’t matter. As a result, (and as I mentioned before) you don’t QUESTION anything, because YOU DON’T WANT TO KNOW.”

Then you said this concerning yourself:

“At some point in time, (though it’s unlikely to be any time soon) I’ll check into all of the dirty history that you want us to know about this guy Summers. Right now I don’t care, because I have nothing to connect it to, in terms of whatever his ‘place’ is on Obama’s Transition Team. You can’t help me with that part of course, because you don’t know either.”

Ahem…..
As for the last portion of bolded text…., Yes, this is becoming extremely obvious, however it is also glaringly apparent that very few could.  I’ve been trying to decide if your entire post is circular or just going off in all tangents from a fixed point….do you know?

Report this
screamingpalm's avatar

By screamingpalm, December 13, 2008 at 10:32 pm Link to this comment

——————————————————————————-
By Inherit The Wind, December 13 at 9:02 pm #

Sure, Dems went along, but had they had control of both Houses and the WH, the deregulation would NEVER have occurred. But the problems go back to the Reagan administration, the GOP control of the Senate back then for 6 years, and the turn-coat “Blue Dog Democrats” who turned on their party and their country to help start Reagan’s dismantling of all our protections and safeguards.

——————————————————————————-

Actually the Dems had control of the House and the Senate in Clinton’s first two years. During this time, sweeping deregulation occured in both the financial and industrial sectors. Rubin began his attempts at deregulating the financial sector, but didn’t actually succeed until later in the Clinton years.

The only progressive legislation that came out of this was the Earned Income Tax Credit. A great accomplishment, but one of the only bright spots in what was otherwise a corporate lobbyist’s wet dream.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, December 13, 2008 at 10:02 pm Link to this comment

Cyrena:

Why are you wasting all that brain power arguing with…you know who?  I don’t even do more than skim his long pointless posts.

All I care about Summers and Rubin is can they help Obama chart the best course out of the mess Bush and the GOP sunk us into.  Sure, Dems went along, but had they had control of both Houses and the WH, the deregulation would NEVER have occurred. But the problems go back to the Reagan administration, the GOP control of the Senate back then for 6 years, and the turn-coat “Blue Dog Democrats” who turned on their party and their country to help start Reagan’s dismantling of all our protections and safeguards.

But we were still pretty OK.  Then Bush 43 came in and, with 9/11, he was able to bring that dismantling full-force.  Unlike that TDr’s here who see NO difference between GOP and Dem (get your eyes checked) I see VAST differences between what happened under Carter and Clinton, versus what happened under Reagan, Bush and Bush.

Plus, despite the truly weird vision expressed here about B.O., I think he’s smart, introspective, far-seeing, and is CLEARLY the most brilliant manager in job since….well, since who can remember?  He can be the next FDR.  Plus he has a bigger job.  Hoover was smarter, brighter and far more expert than Dumbya EVER will be.  Hoover lacked the vision to make the radical changes that FDR made.  However, he DID start Federally funded stimulus programs, trickle-down, of course.  Then, like now, they didn’t work.  But, of course, Hoover didn’t have history to lean on.  Bush had Hoover’s failure.  And learned nothing.

It’s so funny that Cheney compared Bush to Hoover (overtly, of course). Hoover would NEVER have made the 10,000 dreadful mistaken decisions Bush has.  Maybe a few, but NOTHING like this @$$hole.  I cannot WAIT for January 20th to arrive!

Report this
screamingpalm's avatar

By screamingpalm, December 13, 2008 at 9:52 pm Link to this comment

——————————————————————————-
By cyrena, December 13 at 6:53 pm #

My point exactly Outraged. WHAT “choice” of Larry Summes Outraged? WHAT was he ‘chosen’ for, and how do YOU know?
——————————————————————————-

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/11/25/naomi_klein_robert_kuttner_and_michael

Quote:

“And that’s where Larry Summers comes in, because Larry Summers was the last Treasury Secretary under Clinton. And he, along with Alan Greenspan and Robert Rubin, were really the key architects of the policies of deregulation that created the crisis that we are living now. And those key policies, as you know, are the killing of Glass-Steagall that allowed a series of very large bank mergers that created these institutions that are too big and too intermingled to fail, we’re told again and again; the deliberate decision to keep the derivatives out of the reach of financial regulators—that was also a Summers decision; and also allowing the banks to carry these extraordinary levels of debt, thirty-three-to-one in the case of Bear Stearns.”
-Naomi Klein

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/11/24/noam_chomsky_what_next_the_elections

Quote:

“The next group of appointments were the maiden problem that the—the issue, the primary issue that the government’s going to have to face is what to do about the financial crisis. Obama’s choices to more or less run this were Robert Rubin and Larry Summers, from the Clinton—secretaries of Treasury under Clinton. They are among the people who are substantially responsible for the crisis. Actually, one leading economist, one of the few economists who has been right all along in predicting what’s happening, Dean Baker, pointed out that selecting them is like selecting Osama bin Laden to run the war on terror.”
-Noam Chomsky

Report this

By cyrena, December 13, 2008 at 7:53 pm Link to this comment

1 of 2

Outraged writes to me:

“... A couple of weeks ago while discussing Obama’s choice of Larry Summers you refused to address the concerns surrounding his pick, even going so far as to say, “So, Rubin and Summers make two good patsies and scapegoats for those who simply must have something to bitch and moan about. Now of course these same people rarely if ever make any suggestions for who might be better than these two,”...”

~~~

My point exactly Outraged. WHAT “choice” of Larry Summes Outraged? WHAT was he ‘chosen’ for, and how do YOU know? And, tell me what ‘concerns about his ‘pick’ I ‘refused’ to address.  YOUR concerns? What are you talking about Outraged? How do you know I ‘refused to address’ anything? What ‘pick’? Pick for WHAT? Do you have any idea how incredibly stupid this sounds in writing Outraged? I haven’t responded on Summers or Rubin, because contrary to what you write here, (prompted by media punditry who dictate what the sheeple will absorb and how they will absorb it) neither of these individuals has been named or nominated to a cabinet post, OR ANY OTHER official place in Obama’s administration. So, neither you or anyone else knows what place they have on his ‘team’.

Yes, I KNOW that the pundits all mention them both on a regular basis, and the closest ANY of them comes to ‘placing’ either one of them in any hierarchy, is to claim them as ‘advisers’ to the team. Now tell me Outraged, do YOU know what they are ‘advising’ Obama? I don’t Outraged, and a careful perusal of the ‘history’ of these people doesn’t tell me a damn thing about what they are saying to Obama NOW. I can HOPE that they are providing him with the full details on HOW they helped fuck things up, though we all know that they –alone- didn’t. Obama knows as well as anybody, what the foundational cause of the financial mess is, and that has everything to do with DEREGULATION LEGISLATION, which is something that you don’t have a clue about, and again….MORE IMPORTANTLY….YOU DON’T WANT TO HAVE THAT KNOWLEDGE!!! You do NOT want to consider how the bureaucracy works, because your only ‘direction’ is negative and reactionary, and TOTALLY biased!  AND NEVER MIND THOSE PESKY DETAILS.  Neither LOGIC, RATIONALE or FACTS OF REALITY (and never mind the reality that CHANGES from day to day) have any place for consideration in your cognitive process. Like so many others who are their own worst enemies, you’ll just continue to keep trying to shove a square peg in a round hole, and trying to convince everyone else that they should engage in equally stupid behaviors or mindsets. Then you even have the nerve to throw tantrums when they WON’T be bullied into such self-defeating mentalities.

So, being the bitter core that you are, and your unquestioning support for losers and crackpots, Rubin and Summers make nice scapegoats, because you don’t really need to connect the dots or the wiring. You don’t NEED to know what their place is on Obama’s team, because…well, you just don’t like them, and you’ve got all the dirt to prove what overall scumbag people they are. (at least I guess you’ve got the ‘proof’) For people like you, the facts or the reality simply don’t matter. As a result, (and as I mentioned before) you don’t QUESTION anything, because YOU DON’T WANT TO KNOW. And, if I or anyone else were to help you out and hand you the a ROUND peg to put in the ROUND hole, so that it would fit, and you wouldn’t have to keep hammering away in futility, YOU would REFUSE IT!

Report this

By cyrena, December 13, 2008 at 7:51 pm Link to this comment

2 of 2

Be that as it may,  I don’t pretend to know everything there is to know about the economy, (or anything else for that matter, but I claim nothing beyond the fundamentals in terms of Economics, and I know even less about the workings of the stock market.) IF YOU DO - - -  why have you not suggested better advisers for Obama in this area? (Oh that’s right, you don’t even know what the hell either of them is actually doing, so you couldn’t possibly recommend others. All you know is that you don’t like them, and that’s all that matters.)

At some point in time, (though it’s unlikely to be any time soon) I’ll check into all of the dirty history that you want us to know about this guy Summers. Right now I don’t care, because I have nothing to connect it to, in terms of whatever his ‘place’ is on Obama’s Transition Team. You can’t help me with that part of course, because you don’t know either.

Meantime, if you want to discuss any of the other appointments, selections, nominations for actual positions within the upcoming Obama Administration, I’d be delighted to chat about the way the Justice Department is shaping up, and what a great choice Eric Holder is for Attorney General. Seems like that might be something you’d be interested in, considering the months of ranting and raving we’ve heard from you about FISA, the telecoms, the constitution, etc, etc.

Your example of Cheney being ‘experienced’ before hijacking us in two stolen elections shows that you have these troubles with cognitive function and the ability to place concepts and functions in their proper context and subcontext. Your example is inappropriate and out of context, because we the people didn’t elect Dick Cheney or his puppet, who had ZERO experience. (I don’t count his governorship for anything more than the disaster that it was.)  ENOUGH PEOPLE however, DID know Dick Cheney’s history, which may or may not have been why they DID NOT WIN in 2000 or 2004. I certainly knew what Cheney’s ‘experience’ involved, and that alone was a give-away decades ago, to the damage he would cause. Just because YOU were fooled doesn’t mean everybody is equally as naïve or confused.

And, I don’t know about your high school, but ‘name calling’ didn’t happen in mine, and even though you keep screaming that ‘complaint’ (of name calling) all over these blogs, nobody has done that here.

“Name calling?????????” Now THAT’S kindergarten.  And, you’ll find very little sympathy among today’s struggling public, for adults who whine more than kids. In fact, we don’t even put up with this shit from them. Try as I might to hold on to it, my patience with neurotics is declining almost as rapidly as everything else has. Just don’t have the stomach for the “Princess and the Pea” types, OR those who try to spin legitimate information/knowledge from the threads of abandoned spider webs.

Report this
Outraged's avatar

By Outraged, December 13, 2008 at 12:52 pm Link to this comment

part 2

Re: Cyrena

Additionally, in this same vein you have all but refused to address the issues regarding Summers, as per our posts a few weeks ago.  Your viciousness has become readily apparent and is superseded only by your lack of facts and reasonableness.  Name calling is so high-school cyrena… is that the best you can do?

“By Outraged, November 29 at 10:17 am

Re: Cyrena

Your comment: ”Well, I got off track, but my point was that if I narrowed my opinion of Hillary to just that instance alone, or even her campaign rhetoric alone, I would be dismissing the fact that she DOES have these skills and experience, as long as she doesn’t go all rouge on us, or try to follow her own agenda.”

Cheney had the “skills and experience” to be vice-president, but he engaged in all types of illegalities and accepted sub-par standards to suit his agenda.  Yet Bush selected him as his running mate.  Why have you completely ignored Summers’ background and consistently used the “skills and experience” mantra to qualify him?

For the record, your assertion here is incorrect:
”folks like Outraged now designating Larry Summers as the most dangerous person in the world.”

What I said was: “Larry Summers is dangerous for America.” AND, “Very dangerous man.”

As to the “most dangerous person in the world”....?  Well… that would certainly be a large contest and it would be difficult to determine a winner given the certain overload of candidates.  Still, I have to admit, Summers would definitely be a contestant….absolutely.

BTW, it makes you appear less than honest when you purposefully twist and skew others comments to fit your worldview.  As yet you haven’t addressed the very real issues concerning Summers suspect background.  Again from Alternet:

“He worked for 10 months as a top analyst in President Reagan’s Council of Economic Advisers when his mentor, Martin S. Feldstein, was running it, and his colleagues don’t recall him venting anti-Reagan heresies then ....

....In 1990, Lithuania, a restive Soviet republic seeking independence, hired Summers to advise on that country’s economic transformation. Poor Lithuania had no idea what it got itself into. This was Summers’s first opportunity to tackle a country in economic crisis and put his wunderkind theories into practice. The results were literally suicidal: in 1990, when Summers first arrived, Lithuania’s suicide rate was 26.1 per 100,000 and falling. Just five years after Summers got his hands on Lithuania’s economy, life became so unbearable under the economic transition that the suicide rate nearly doubled to 45.6 per 100,000, worse than any other ex-Soviet republic in transition. In fact, it was the highest suicide rate in the world, suggesting something particularly harsh and brutal about the economic transition in that country as opposed to the others, where suffering and pain were common….

...Summers’s other favorite man in Russia was Anatoly Chubais—who consistently ranks at the top of Russia’s “ most hated man” polls. Chubais was executor of the Russian government’s privatization program, in which state companies worth tens of billions of dollars were handed over to insiders for a fraction of their worth in blatantly rigged auctions.

Unbelieveably, there’s more in the article.

http://www.alternet.org/workplace/106553/keep_larry_summers_as_far_as_possible_from_the_u.s._treasury/?comments=view&cID=1056189&pID=1055698

AGAIN…. are you able to address these facts?

Report this
Outraged's avatar

By Outraged, December 13, 2008 at 12:51 pm Link to this comment

part 1

Re Cyrena,

In response to your comment: “You don’t QUESTION SHIT in your comments here, and QUESTIONING has never been part of your repertoire, because in all sincerity,YOU DON’T KNOW THE RIGHT QUESTIONS TO ASK!!  You have repeatedly proven that you cannot, but far more importantly…WILL NOT connect the dots. You choose to IGNORE the facts that don’t support your very PERSONAL ideology.”

Your assertion would prove to be more indicative of your own actions and not mine.  A couple of weeks ago while discussing Obama’s choice of Larry Summers you refused to address the concerns surrounding his pick, even going so far as to say, “So, Rubin and Summers make two good patsies and scapegoats for those who simply must have something to bitch and moan about. Now of course these same people rarely if ever make any suggestions for who might be better than these two,”

Have you investigated or questioned the history of these two men and their fraudulent practices?  There are many issues regarding BOTH Summers and Rubin which are highly questionable, yet still they are on the Obama “team”.

Naomi Prins in her book “Other People’s Money”  had this to say concerning Robert Rubin:

It was Rubin who made the call to Peter R. Fisher, then undersecretary of the treasury for domestic financial markets, to save Enron’s credit rating in November 2001.  He told Fisher he thought the energy market and the public would not be served by Enron’s collapse.  Of course, neither would Citigroup if Enron defaulted on all of its debts.  Rubin suggested Fisher intervene with the presumably independent rating agencies to keep Enron’s rating up.  This conversation occurred just three weeks before Enron declared bankruptcy ......

.....Rubin was earning millions of dollars as a Citigroup executive at the time that Citigroup was negotiating an Enron-related banking deal.  Telecom analyst Jack Grubman took the very personal heat and received a $15 million fine for talking up the telecom stocks of Favored Citigroup clients even while they were tanking…..

....Rubin blatantly abused his position and political connections with respect to Enron, yet he was ultimately absolved without punishment.  He was shielded—in no small part by this plethora of friends in high places—yet what he did was no different from analysts making upbeat calls on deadbeat companies: he tried to use his influence to keep the perception of Enron’s rating higher than was warranted.”

Thousands of people lost their retirement savings and pensions because of these fraudulent activities and LIES.  Why do these facts not concern you, especially since Rubin is a part of the Obama “team”?  I find these facts questionable and your assertion that Rubin was “a patsy” outrageous.

I’ve questioned you regarding this weeks ago yet you’ve not addressed ANY of these issues.  You have, on the other hand, attempted to provide a cover for this felonious thief.

I would suggest Prins’ book, “Other Peoples Money”.  BTW, if you consider honesty and integrity “a personal ideology”, all I can say is guilty as charged.  Although you needn’t fret Cyrena, as it is very unlikely anyone will accuse you of this particular ideology.

Report this

By Kashilinus, December 13, 2008 at 11:23 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Johnny come lately “I told you so” Sirota. The current debacle was accurately foretold by Harry Figgie in the 1992 book (Foreword by Waren Rudman): “Bankruptcy 1995.” A few years off, but accurate.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, December 13, 2008 at 6:11 am Link to this comment

Purple Girl, December 12 at 10:17 am #
Nobody could fuck US up this bad without Trying!

*********

Absolutely!

*********

I have Republican friends sure the Unions are conspirators

************

The Senators who blocked the Detroit bailout blame the UAW as the sole cause of the Big 3’s troubles, not 45 years of bad corporate decisions.

************
do I think bush conspired with Bin laden on 9/11…No he’s not that smart to begin with..
************

So many things are run by Bush like the Keystone Kops, it’s hard to imagine them pulling off the WTC conspiracy so many here believe in.

************
Let’s see
Scam them, Swindle them ...
Increase cost of Basic living needs (energy & food)
Ah is any one else seeing the pattern of a downward spiral of the American Worker to 3rd World Standards?

*************************************************

I have posted repeatedly that Bush and the GOP are trying to create a new feudal society.

**************************************************

Ya know how many industries have worked hard to screw Us, one way or another. ya think it’s an accident that all have ultimately undermined the Economy and the workers who generate the economy. Destroy the economy and the labor will become ‘lean and hungry’ thus a far cheaper commodity to purchase- globally speaking.

***********************************************

I’m not sure about that—I think they did it as individual short-sighted selfish actions, not so well-planned.

***********************************************
Of course the stupidity of this ‘logic’ is the fact those they wish to devalue workers are really undermining their customer base at the same time.
***********************************************

DANG!  Somebody caught on!

***********************************************
...
don’t tell me Greenspan et al, never studied history or know nothing about the pitfalls of feudualistic type economies, as Economists.BS!!!

*************************************************

Greenspan was a close, personal friend of Ayn Rand when he was young, part of her inner circle.  He’s more Objectivist than Libertarian (who are Objectivist-Lite).  That means he’s had tunnel vision until recently when he figured out EVERYTHING he knew was wrong.  The man was truly shaken to his core—that I believe. He’s not that much of an actor.
*************************************************


One thing that can be said of ‘tin hatters’ they are paying attention, engaged, and have such convictions about the Rights & Freedoms we have in this country, they continue to demand answers, when shit doesn’t add up.

**************************************************

No. the tin-foil hatters see Mossad and the CIA behind EVERYTHING and cannot see the world straight any more than the neo-con fascists can.  However the NON-tin-foil skeptics are, as you say, paying attention.

**************************************************
Better to question and be proven wrong, then never to question at all. Kinda the basis of a Democracy, for the Poeple & by the People.
‘Ask Lots of questions’ is not only sound advice for School children, it is imperative for Citizens.

***************************************************

It’s imperative for children too, to learn.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, December 13, 2008 at 5:25 am Link to this comment

Need I add this?

George W. Bush has been the ring-leader in the biggest rape of America ever.  Even Reconstruction Republicans couldn’t match his corruption.  During THEIR reign, despite all the garbage, the economy grew and grew, even though there were some serious downturns (Panic of 1893).

Yes, Bush and his gang are trying really hard to rape America the way Robert Mugabe has raped the once-wealthy Zimbabwe.  Now people are dying of cholera because the water and sewer systems have broken down, and the hospitals have no staff or medicine.  If Obama doesn’t take over soon, how far are WE from that?  Already we are low on the list for health care, ranking about even with Cuba.

Haven’t we had enough of Bush rapists?

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, December 13, 2008 at 5:19 am Link to this comment

David,
Everything you say is right, but there’s more:

When Cheney said “Reagan proved deficits don’t matter” we said “Oh yes, they do!”

Told you so.

When I said you can’t drain $400 billion to half a trillion out of the credit market year after year to pay for tax cuts and a war, I, and other critics were ignored.

Told you so.

When we all said the elections of Bush in 2000 and 2004 were stolen elections we were told no, he NEEDS to be the President, by the Supreme Court no less.  But he needed NOT to be President.

Told you so.

When every answer Bush had to good quarters and bad quarters, to growth and recession was always “Reduce taxes to the rich and lie and say you are reducing taxes for everyone else” and we all said “No! Everyone must pay their fair share!” who was right?

Told you so.

When Henry Paulsen let arch-rival Lehman go under but saved his firm Goldman (where he will return a couple of years after leaving office) we said “No, this is purely partisan.”

Told you so.

George W. Bush is looking to save his legacy.  His legacy is:
1) Inappropriate, badly timed tax cuts in spring and summer of 2001.
2) Inappropriate and ineffective responses during the 9/11 attacks.
3) Pre-planned rollout of the fascist Patriot Act (they had it ready for an excuse).
4) Illegal, unnecessary and ultimately financially ruinous war in Iraq.
5) Raping Medicare
6) Removing logical and sensible controls on business, always to the consumers’ detriment.
7) Failure to protect Americans during repeated natural disasters, starting with Katrina.
8) Attempting to turn Social Security over to the same incompetent short-sighted thieves who have sunk the economy and stock market.
9) Alienating friends and foes alike with ham-handed, badly planned “Big Stick” policies—that failed.
10) Presiding over the WORST financial collapse since the Great Depression, with the sole response of draining to future pointlessly to back up banks who have NO intention of repaying the citizens who bailed them out.

Report this

By cyrena, December 13, 2008 at 4:49 am Link to this comment

1 of 2
Well Lousie,
I think you do very, very, very, well at putting things pretty succinctly yourself!! Specifically this on the loser mentality:

•  “..The loser mentality ... that mind-set that sees no chance for change ... is the same mind-set that has bitched and moaned mightily since the first day they learned how. They are neither dems or repubs, conservative, liberal or moderate. They are simply fault-finders who live and breathe only for that purpose! They rejoice in something being lost!..”

You’re right you know, but re-reading what it took me so long to figure out is still a very helpful reminder. I’ve discovered that if one listens to/reads/hears from these malcontents for too long, it can become disorienting, because it’s SO MUCH BULLSHIT!!

However, I know (at least intellectually if not ‘emotionally’) that this loser mentality is entirely PERSONAL, even though admittedly, there are several million in the group. Still, their mentality is directly tied to their own personal experiences, and whatever genetics have formed their personalities, because there are NO connections between their gripes, and any COLLECTIVE cause or public agenda.  In fact, they don’t even understand the concept of a ‘collection’ or groups that make up our society.

They’re a ‘misery loves company’ batch, and whatever the individual misery is that motivates them doesn’t matter.  They need only find a circumstance, situation, event, trend, etc, etc, that people (anybody really) feels hopeful,  encouraged, or even HAPPY about, and their ‘job’ then becomes about dismantling that,—whatever it may be.

That’s why on this:

•  “I really don’t understand why they don’t get together and create their own version of truth-dig. They could call it truth-bury. [They never will though, because that would require actual effort!]

It’s not ONLY that it would require effort, but the wind would be taken out of the individual sails, if they only had each other to argue with. (Even though I’d sure love to observe such a blog. Probably be really comical). Still, when misery goes looking for company, they want fresh recruits, not just another loser like themselves.

Like the totally bogus comment from Rdv that you referenced. These people just MAKE SHIT UP!!! And, it’s ALWAYS the same ones. The majority of the group of malcontents – LOSERS on this site didn’t necessarily support McCain, even though people like Rdv (who supported Ron Paul) would never have voted for a progressive candidate anyway, even if he wasn’t black. So Rdv is among the crowd of Obama bashers that have been posting here long enough to leave a trail of their ideologies, and they’ve basically been bashing him all along.

BUT..what’s semi-interesting (if we were doing some sort of academic experiment/research) is that while they are united in their hatred for and of Barack Obama, that is often their only commonality. (besides the overall loser mentality). But, they don’t necessarily even share ideologies. Many of them were Nader supporters/losers. Some (like Sue Cook) are simply man haters, and Obama being a black one and all, just makes it that much worse for them. When Hillary FINALLY conceded the nomination to Obama, I thought we’d heard the last from that group. But damn if Sue Cook didn’t ‘revive’ after the selection of Sarah Palin to the Repig ticket.  She thought the gun and bible totin’, caribou shootin’ “you betcha” SP was the next best thing to mom’s apple pie, even if she doesn’t have an operative brain cell. So for the Sue Cooks of the world, (and others of whatever world they’re in) it just needed to be a Caucasian Female.  Others are Ron Paul Klan supporters/losers, (high prevalence of closet racists in that group) and then there are a bunch of them that don’t support anybody at all; no party, no person, not even a government structure of any form.

Report this

By cyrena, December 13, 2008 at 4:47 am Link to this comment

Part 2 of 2

I think the latter are among the more delusional. (I don’t know why either…could be anything from bad genes to bad drugs I suppose).  These are the ones who have only destruction of the present system in mind, because they NEVER present any constructive views, thoughts, ideas, suggestions, solutions, and on and on. They NEVER do!!!!  (I actually kept track for a brief period several months ago…just an informal and imprecise sort of a social psychology survey.)

But the bottom line is that they are ALWAYS miserable!! ALWAYS negative. It’s almost like built-in to their blood type.

—-ANYTHING that goes wrong in their lives, is ALWAYS – ALWAYS – ALWAYS, SOMEBODY ELSE’S FAULT!!! ALWAYS! And, for lack of anyone closer to blame (like themselves)the gubmint comes in real handy.

Meantime, that brings to mind an excellent piece that I read on Truthout.org yesterday. It’s an older piece, originally published in August on Alternet, but it’s definitely worth an updated read. It pretty much says it all.

http://www.truthout.org/article/how-anti-intellectualism-is-destroying-america

Outraged writes to Louise:
“…It seems curious that you would condescend those who question?  Questioning supposed facts are the beginning of knowledge. ..”

Petty and mean bullshit here Outraged. That’s all we can expect from you these days. Never logic or rationale. You’ve been drifting farther and farther away from reality for several months now, slowly drowning in your own piss and misery.  And while you’re certainly not alone, that doesn’t make it OK.

Meantime, you don’t even get your own point. You don’t QUESTION SHIT in your comments here, and QUESTIONING has never been part of your repertoire, because in all sincerity,YOU DON’T KNOW THE RIGHT QUESTIONS TO ASK!!  You have repeatedly proven that you cannot, but far more importantly…WILL NOT connect the dots. You choose to IGNORE the facts that don’t support your very PERSONAL ideology.  So your use of the word ‘questioning’ is phony rhetoric at best, and total cynicism and worst. There is no “questioning” on your part at all, since you don’t acknowledge any factual answers if you don’t like them. That means that you’re incapable of acquiring knowledge, because you pre-select what you interpret as ‘facts’. So don’t waste any of your aid on a higher education, because you’d FAIL. Such things require a defense of your arguments or thesis, and you don’t even make any. All you do is piggy back onto a cause to criticize, and you can’t even back THAT up! 

You claim to question ‘supposed’ facts, but that’s more petty shit, because if you really wanted to know the ‘facts’ on anything, you damn well know how to research it, because you’ve done it before.  And yes, you DO know the difference between facts and the bullshit rhetoric that you sprout. And we ALSO know very well that if you COULD actually dispute what you call my ‘so called’ facts, you WOULD. Instead, you just talk trash, and hang around in your cults with your metaphorical pitchforks and torches. Jesus H. Christ. Is there ANY humor in your life?

I swear you give true substance to the concept of BITTER!!!

Report this

By nrobi, December 13, 2008 at 2:33 am Link to this comment

First of all, Mr. Sirota, has made many good and salient points regarding the economic crisis.
Of course this global meltdown could be foretold by anyone knowledgeable enough to understand the “lie” of deregulation and laissez-faire capitalism.
Without government oversight, without rules to guide them, the Wall Street Thugs and Corporate Thieves show their true colours, i.e., Mr. Madoff, who has been arrested for a $50 Billion US ponzi scheme.
The only reason this could happen, of course is the tacit approval of and deregulation of the markets schemes and scams.
No one in their “left mind” would willingly give their money to some unknown person, who promises them returns of 0-00.  Are there so many sheeple out there that would listen to those who steal from them and lie then to cover their thievery?
While on this subject, the sheeple, those Far Right Wing-Nut Christians have basically ruined politics for the rest of the world, they will not give up the power they once had with “The Great Communicator,” and of course, “the shrub and his cabal of neo-conservative shit-heads.”
This is happening because “We the People,” became disinterested in the political process, because we counted politicians among the least liked people on the face of the planet, less liked than even used car salesman. Should this have been a legitimate reason for foregoing the people’s right to govern themselves?  Obviously Not. Did it happen? Obviously Yes!
The answer now is not to lay blame at the feet of those who caused this mess, although there is a lot of blame to go around. The answer lies in an equitable fix of these problems.  How are we the people supposed to do this?
The answer is not violence and rioting in the streets for our supposed “rights,” but in the peaceful and overwhelming majority of people showing the “ruling elite,” that we the people will not stand for or accept any longer their lies and schemes to line their pockets with our money.
Peaceful and non-violent demonstration of the kind that Martin Luther King Jr., Mohandas K. Ghandi, and all the others who have not backed down from the powers-that-be, these have caused massive and revolutionary change in times of great distress for the people.  The sheeple, these can go along with the system if they want to, I will stand up for the rights of those oppressed and repressed, when and if I choose, to become non-violent and resistant to the powers that be.
I will not willingly lie down and let the lawn-mower of the ruling-educated elite any longer run my life as if I was a fly on the wall of life to be swatted at a moments notice by the sheeple of the Far Right Wing-Nut Christian service people.
Given the choice between being lawn-mowered over by the ruling class and standing up for the rights that I have, I will gladly show the world that I am strong and willing to face the consequences of my actions, yet those of the ruling class are not.
The ruling class educated elite of our country, cannot face the music and will not, because of the pardoning power of the presidency. Should these war criminals be given a pass by the president then I will stand up and be counted as one of the people who demands justice for those who have paid the ultimate price for the greed and avarice of the elite.

Report this
Outraged's avatar

By Outraged, December 13, 2008 at 2:24 am Link to this comment

Re: Louise

Your comment: “The loser mentality ... that mind-set that sees no chance for change ... is the same mind-set that has bitched and moaned mightily since the first day they learned how. They are neither dems or repubs, conservative, liberal or moderate. They are simply fault-finders who live and breath only for that purpose! They rejoice in something being lost! They celebrate past failure and eagerly look for any excuse to predict more failure! They offer little, if anything, of value that might result in true victory, because victory of any sort is the last thing in the world they want to see! They are losers who embrace the loser mentality. So it’s easy to understand why some believe they are actually repub spoilers trying to destroy Obamas presidency before it ever begins. Which of course is the current repub policy.’

It seems curious that you would condescend those who question?  Questioning supposed facts are the beginning of knowledge.  Obviously there is more to knowledge than simply questioning… still, it is the beginning of it. Your comment appears to imply that questioning what YOU (and of course Cyrena) have “deemed” facts are paramount.  These have not been proven and are merely a reality constructed outside of established facts.

The name-calling you invoke along with the preconceived conditions you eschew leave your “point” flat.  Did you have message other than the premise that anyone who questions is somehow un-Obamalike?  And if so…what is it?

Also regarding to your tirade, can you qualify any of the the suppositions you claim?  Or are they simply the “trendy” rantings of the Obama camp?

Report this

By libertarian, December 13, 2008 at 1:07 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Mr. Sirota might want to define his version of “Progressive.” The 2005 bankruptcy bill was approved by 73 Democrat Congressmen:
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0415-09.htm

The recent abortion, the big bailout, was approved by 39 Senate Democrats.  Both Reed and Rep. Pelosi pushed for approval.
Look at this Senate vote:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14196.html

Mr. Sirota may have opposed this farcical handout to corporate bottomfeeders but the Democrats, the embodiment of Progressive politics, made it happen.  Mr. Sirota, you might rather thank those Republicans and few Democrats who fought to kill the handout.

Report this

By samosamo, December 12, 2008 at 9:48 pm Link to this comment

Oh, I forgot to add this link to a related story:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28143127/

The people have to abide by the rules but the crooks in d.c. reward those responsible for the people’s plight.

Report this

By samosamo, December 12, 2008 at 9:46 pm Link to this comment

Now it is to the point that in order for me to not be forclosed on I must get an income to contiune paying my mortgage which I am more than willing to do. There may be jobs galore out there but at my age I am at a point that I can only work somewhere that inside or outside pollution, noise or chemical, are reasons not to accept employment. But this option is one of many for a lot of people that cannot be considered as the corporations that seemingly control the employment in this country don’t give a hill of beans worth of thought as to in what environment a person will work.
The sacrifice of health for the enrichment of a bunch of irresponsible humans that put cost and profits above what a person should do for an income is as criminal as any of the financial disasters playing out right now. And right now, financial institutions are playing out ‘games’ with people that would like to have an income that would allow them to remain in their home or have a home but that even now is being encroached upon where the probibility of losing a home is even greater because some institution demands to play by rules that no matter how criminal institutions have been in creating the current disaster, the law will take what anyone would want away to appease the financiers.
Whether I keep my home by gainful employment or lose it, I definitely want those responsible for this financial disaster to pay for their incompetence and criminality.

Report this

By Dale Headley, December 12, 2008 at 4:36 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Communism and unfettered capitalism have one thing in common:  they don’t work!  They are both doomed to failure by one inevitable fact: greed will eventually destroy them from within.

Report this

By Spiritgirl, December 12, 2008 at 4:25 pm Link to this comment

Thank you for speaking power to the truth!  However, I am concerned as (1)the “good religious sheep” continue to believe in the rantings of the delirious elite that don’t give a da—about them until a vote is needed! and (2)the way in which they (the media, the religious right, the stupid) continue to push their idiotic concept of laissez-faire economics (aka welfare for the rich) even though the rest of us are paying for those mistakes!

What I would hope is that this whole debacle has made it so painful for the many sheep that they will snap out of their delusions or start taking Ritalin, which will help to clear out the fog in their brains!  While progressive voices have been getting louder, those dems on the right that continue to believe in socializing poverty under the guise of “moral values” still don’t want to believe that sh—stinks either!  I am sure that they continue to believe that if we continue to pump money to the very people that got us into this unregulated mess - that soon and very soon the economy will bounce back!  Maybe we can do to them what you do to a hysterical person, just slap them soooooo hard that they snap out of it!!!!!

Report this

By samosamo, December 12, 2008 at 12:54 pm Link to this comment

To me, it is reminiscent of the 2000 election with the supreme court stopping the recount thus appointing w as president and done by the ardent conservatives on the court. Amazing also, was how quick timmy russert dismissed the thing with his comment: ‘florida, florida, florida it is over. Time to move on’. There should have been marching in the streets over that because the supreme court is supposed to not function like that.
The next was the attack of 9/11 and even with the passage of laws to intimidate people to shut up or be labeled as a terrorist or unpatriotic because the perponderance of evidence that that was not just a terrorist attack but something that at the least had the help and approval of the current administration. No discussion, swept under the rug.
And now the ultimate terrorist attack on our country that would get lesser people ‘disappeared’, the big boys on wall street with the help of the current administration are not even, well, yeah there are some beginning to get arrested, considered for their part in this massive grand larceny of money. Not much discussed but more than at first. But also the horror of seening our elected persons bailing out or rewarding these financial terrorists for their incompetence and criminality. Too big to fail, bull fucking shit, they especially need to go the way of the dinosaurs.
And we still don’t know just what in the hell will rise up and bit the people on their collective asses in the future because of these clowns.
I still don’t think it too late to discuss these things, as a matter of fact, to get some sense of preservation, I would think it imperative to revisit all of this and more just to demonstrate the people do have a lot of say so in what is done to them and what is done in their name. Other wise just go ahead and hand the keys to the safe over those bastards.

Report this

By GoldenT, December 12, 2008 at 12:33 pm Link to this comment

I won’t be holding my breath waiting for the news media and party leadership to change their ways in recognition of reality. History shows those beholden to fascism do not bend until the leading elements are gone. The battle has just begun…

Report this

By Louise, December 12, 2008 at 12:18 pm Link to this comment

cyrena, thanks.

“So, if we can do this to the democrats that allegedly ‘trusted’ GWB with these billions and no oversight, (according to your post, it’s OK that the Republicans did it too) can we do the same thing to each and every moron who ever VOTED for the bastards to begin with? TWICE?? Could we just execute ALL of them for being stupid, and putting the rest of us at peril for the past 8 years?

That’s after due process of course.”

~~~

That puts it about as succinctly as possible. [For those of us who think and pay attention anyway. smile]

Your mastery of stating the facts, in so few words is greatly appreciated. Particularly when dealing with people who have trouble sorting through the facts unless they are presented in Kinder-text.

The loser mentality ... that mind-set that sees no chance for change ... is the same mind-set that has bitched and moaned mightily since the first day they learned how. They are neither dems or repubs, conservative, liberal or moderate. They are simply fault-finders who live and breath only for that purpose! They rejoice in something being lost! They celebrate past failure and eagerly look for any excuse to predict more failure! They offer little, if anything, of value that might result in true victory, because victory of any sort is the last thing in the world they want to see! They are losers who embrace the loser mentality. So it’s easy to understand why some believe they are actually repub spoilers trying to destroy Obamas presidency before it ever begins. Which of course is the current repub policy.

I really don’t understand why they don’t get together and create their own version of truth-dig. They could call it truth-bury. [They never will though, because that would require actual effort!]

~~~

RdV,

“When I recall the reassured Obama, fresh off his superstar celebration, rally the congressional ranks to line up to support the bailout, my jaw clenches.”

~~~

I love this! Not because of any wisdom, or even rational, but because it is so totally bogus! So totally repub-like! And the vision of the clenched jaw is so supportive of the notion that fault-finders are guided by an angry need to pull everything down! The vote RdV refers to came BEFORE the election and the decisions were made absent Obamas input. And clearly, RdV makes no mention of McCain TRYING to exercise influence and being greated by indifference.

But hey ... lets not further confuse the already confused with facts!

~~~

Purple Girl, another big thanks!

“Nobody could fuck US up this bad without Trying!

I have Republican friends sure the Unions are conspirators, yet reject any such thoughts about their politicians. Apparently Dems and Blue Collars are the sole masterminds of conspiracies, is that because we are able to come to concensus more often? No disrepect to those with ADD, But this nation has a vast number of people who require Rydaline to focus on Real concerns. Do I think bush conspired with Bin laden on 9/11…No he’s not that smart to begin with..Now Cheney is a distinct Possibility due to his history with the ‘Afghani Freedom fighter’. Why has it become so difficult for the average citizen to follow the dots? When did 1+1= Nothing?”

~~~

When did 1+1= Nothing? That equasion is and always has been part and parcel of repub policy. Just one more clear example of what they REALLY think of the people they serve. Dumb ... really, really DUMB!

And I’ll make no apologies for saying so, because obviously the repubs are right. Their people are really, really dumb! And they prove it every single day!

Report this

By JNagarya, December 12, 2008 at 12:04 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

more blather at 11:00!

Report this

By Karen, December 12, 2008 at 12:04 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Bush tried to destroy Social Security.  He failed.  However, he’s not failing in destroying Medicare.  Earlier this year physicians began having to wait for months to get paid.  As a result, many are closing their doors, retiring early, or simply refusing to take any new Medicare patients. 

Medicare USED to be the insurance doctors and hospitals liked to see because it meant they got paid fairly and on time—not any more, thanks to you-know-who.

Report this

By JNagarya, December 12, 2008 at 12:03 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

on the false premise that we weren’t paying attention the first time around.

Certainly someone can find a columnist to fill his alloted space with something relevant, instead of the repetitious rehashes that we the choir told him about the first time around, but without the gawd-awful cliche far-left anti-gum’mint America-hating.

Get it through your law-illiteracy, Sirota: the gov’t is US—WE THE PEOPLE.  By bashing gov’t, and persuading others to disengage from their responsibility as citizens—no, it isn’t ALL AND ONLY about “RIGHTS”—you disserve your country.  And oh-so-coincidentally create the circumstances you then bash, and by that means perpetuate those circumstances as excuse to perpetuate those circumstances.

We don’t need more of the smae rehashings of stale ideological tripe; we need the alternative thereto: THINKING.

Report this

By Someone, December 12, 2008 at 11:55 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

This is the same continuous problem, and you don’t have to be an economist or have the correct ideology to understand it. Is not the economy about the flow of money? And yet these people have been led to believe that vastly disproportionate sums of wealth are owed to them. There is no understanding of a negative effect; that being, to take from one area is to leave another area without. Is greed not the subject of countless stories throughout our history? So voracious is it today, so enabled by every detail of our society, that it must come to a head. The pirates are no longer stealing bananas from the tree, so to speak, but are uprooting the tree itself. Does this not make sense? That so economically-focused are we as a country, that we are deteriorating our very right to even be a country—like the snake eating its own tail. What ‘complex’ solutions are we looking for? We must help the people, create jobs, encourage domestic industry, not threaten wages and employment. These ‘ideologies’ that we swim in are veritably obstructive. As if we will ever come to a point where they will be implemented in their ‘pure’ forms, or even then, be the answer to every question. We use them even in their compromised, muddled state of theoretical ideas and subjective observation. They’re coverings that shroud important matters, that allow people to mutually pursue self-interests with minimal explanation, or thinking even—with never-ending ambition to be in the right.

When will people become angry? Where has our backbone gone? Even as they bury us, we are so scared of stepping on the toes of others. I’m tired of listening even to the people on NPR, treating these problems like morning show discussion, while as a country we’re sending shock waves all over the planet. It is a sign that the upcoming president is admired, though he speaks with comical affectation, and generally sounds as if he is being strangled—due to the acrobatics he must perform in not offending corporate and government interests. Why do we not say, you are obviously being dishonest. Why do we not say things as they are? Instead we play their game, as if we must share in their lying, their interest seeking and lack of integrity. It is not time to question policies and institutions; it’s time to question the entire system, all the way down to the way every household lives in this country.

Report this

By hippy pam, December 12, 2008 at 11:39 am Link to this comment

WE-THE PEOPLE…..need to stop allowing GOVERNMENT to RUN US….WE PAY THESE PEOPLE TO DO A JOB…..AND THEY HAVE ALL REALLY DONE A BAD JOB…..STAND UP-BE COUNTED-INSIST…YES-INSIST….ON EVERYONE…FROM “ole bullshit” on down….PAY FOR THEIR CRIMES…..

Report this
Purple Girl's avatar

By Purple Girl, December 12, 2008 at 11:17 am Link to this comment

You merely focused on the sirens about the obvious detriment Trickle Down and Deregulation has caused. haven’t even touched the Red Flag waving before the illegal invasion into Iraq, and the costs it has caused (Lives, Money, reputation).
While the easily distracted sect ‘shiny Object’ people are sure that Edwards fathered that child, they refuse to see the clear evidence that this Admin has Screwed US royal and Intentionally.
Nobody could fuck US up this bad without Trying!
I have Republican friends sure the Unions are conspirators, yet reject any such thoughts about their politicians.Apparently Dems and Blue Collars are the sole masterminds of conspiracies, is that because we are able to come to concensus more often.No disrepect to those with ADD, But this nation has a vast number of people who require Rydaline to focus on Real concerns
do I think bush conspired with Bin laden on 9/11…No he’s not that smart to begin with..Now Cheney is a distinct Possibility due to his history with the ‘Afghani Freedom fighter’. Why has it become so difficult for the average citizen to follow the dots? When did 1+1= Nothing?
Let’s see
Scam them, Swindle them or push them into insurmountable debt.
Then reduce Jobs, while adding numbers to the labor market.
Reduce funding for Education.
eliminate collective bargining
Annilate savings accounts
Reduce employer based benefits (thus out of pocket)
Increase cost of Basic living needs (energy & food)
Ah is any one else seeing the pattern of a downward spiral of the American Worker to 3rd World Standards?
Ya know how many industries have worked hard to screw Us, one way or another. ya think it’s an accident that all have ultimately undermined the Economy and the workers who generate the economy. Destroy the economy and the labor will become ‘lean and hungry’ thus a far cheaper commodity to purchase- globally speaking.
Of course the stupidity of this ‘logic’ is the fact those they wish to devalue workers are really undermining their customer base at the same time.
Reason the Unfreezing of Lending is futile, No consumer is willing to go any further in hock.
bottoms Up..give US jobs to pay our bills and buy a little something.Thus both financial industries will not have so many defaults and manufacturing & retail will have customers wanting to buy.
who didn’t realize ‘Trickle Down’ was the EXACT economic stradegy which our forefathers abandoned and fought to exocise from this country? Gee, Ya think some eurpoean countries could have explained why this does Not work.Why the Queen is only a Figure head, not a Law maker or overseer of the economy?‘Trickle Down’didn’t work there either!
don’t tell me Greenspan et al, never studied history or know nothing about the pitfalls of feudualistic type economies, as Economists.BS!!!
they knew that as well as those ‘Military analysists knew Afghanistan and iraq would be a death trap, to our Soldiers and our economy…Russians Proved that and so did the Iran/Iraq War.Reason HW did not venture far once he pushed Saddam out of Kuwait.
One thing that can be said of ‘tin hatters’ they are paying attention, engaged, and have such convictions about the Rights & Freedoms we have in this country, they continue to demand answers, when shit doesn’t add up.
Better to question and be proven wrong, then never to question at all. Kinda the basis of a Democracy, for the Poeple & by the People.
‘Ask Lots of questions’ is not only sound advice for School children, it is imperative for Citizens.

Report this

By Glasspoole, December 12, 2008 at 10:42 am Link to this comment

If we ever take to the streets the rulers are ready and able to impose martial law.  The military has been infiltrated by the Christian Right, which believs in a great perversion of Jesus’ teachings.  They will gun us down and have the camps ready.  Yet I think it must come to pass if we have any chance at all.

Report this

By Little Brother, December 12, 2008 at 8:37 am Link to this comment

Well stated, RdV.

And don’t forget the dodgy rationalization that Obama’s campaign also used when he supported the abominable FISA legislation:  Oh, there are a few flaws in it, but once Obama is elected, he’s going to FIX it!

The operational word is “fix”.

Report this

By Daro, December 12, 2008 at 8:22 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Forget it Dave, there’s no comfort in being a Cassandra. In fact, it’s the most annoying sensation in the world. Some have been screaming in the wind about this crisis since 2004, and one popular online “conspiracy” video accurately predicted this in 1994!!

Report this

By Jon, December 12, 2008 at 7:52 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Obama’s Robert Rubin worked with Paulson on the Citibank bailout.  Rubin being it’s ex-CEO and then a consultant.

It’s easy people: what you SEE is what you get.  Obama is part of the same machine that gave us this financial mess, looting of the Treasury, no transparency, unemployment to the tune of 600,000 jobs a month, 5000 bankrupt filing a day, and 10,000+ foreclosures a week.

Obama supported the bailout, and yet, have we seen ANY of it get to workers and families?  Not a dime.

Wake up to reality.  Obama is no different, and neither are his team members, from the Republican Party.  His talk is different maybe, but his walk is the same.  Look at Chicago politics as a harbinger of what is to come from this ‘new team’ of the same old corrupt faces.

Report this

By RdV, December 12, 2008 at 7:46 am Link to this comment

When I recall the reassured Obama, fresh off his superstar celebration, rally the congressional ranks to line up to support the bailout, my jaw clenches. Now he surrounds himself with the same retreads responsible for the mess, claiming himself as the vessel of change—and change is now spun into executing the same policies more successfully. But here it is—already we are seeing the sham with this bailout he championed. Perhaps he should racall his own words:

” The danger in this election is playing the same old Washington games, with the same old Washington players ,and expecting a different result.”

  Barack Obama Dec.17th, 2007

  His confidence and credibility erodes by the minute—already he is stuttering and defensive- and his foot ain’t even in the door.

Report this

By KISS, December 12, 2008 at 7:33 am Link to this comment

“People are rioting in Greece and it has now spread to Europe in Italy, Denmark, and Spain.  Can France be far behind?”  Not to worry Nor-Com is waiting in the wings with 20,000+ troops ready and willing to gun down dissident Amerikans and protect the wealth class and their subservient stooges.
A little history of General Smedley Butler does prove that history ALWAYS repeats.
Mt fellow Amerikans should have learned a lesson from Enron and Price Waterhouse, the harbingers of today’s mess.
Now we have another 50 billion dollar scandal with Bernard Madoff confessing to ripping off the rich and entitled, with a Ponzi type scheme.
Also not one word from the Pundits, news media, Politicians or even David that the biggest con-artist is the Federal Reserve, without their help none of this shenanigans would have been possible.

Report this

By coloradokarl, December 12, 2008 at 5:52 am Link to this comment

Hey Shift, Last time I spoke as you have My I-speed slowed to a trickle for 10 days, My posts started to disappear. and my Mac started to turn off for unknown reasons. Let’s all start food drives and push the rich to help those less fortunate.
The neocons want civil unrest to finish their plans. Ghandi was a futurist, LOVE is the ANSWER.

Report this

By Dave Schwab, December 12, 2008 at 5:06 am Link to this comment

I guess if we’re serving up crow, then I might as well add: the Green Party told you so.

Greens told you that Republicans and Democrats both adhere to the same corporatist economic ideology that puts profits before people. We told you that neither the Democratic Congress nor Obama will fix the economy, end the wars, enact universal healthcare, or institute a Green new deal. We were dismissed by people whose idea of participation in democracy is chanting “Yes we can”.

Fortunately, the Green Party of the United States is now offering 6 big solutions to fix the economy.
1. Enact a massive Green Public Works program
2. Bail out towns, cities and states over private corporations
3. Jump start our mass transit system
4. Enact a single-payer universal health care system
5. End the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan
6. End the war on drugs and legalize Marijuana

Unfortunately, the politicians in Washington won’t listen until we show them that we’re no longer going to support their discredited parties with their discredited and dangerous ideologies.

Report this

By cyrena, December 12, 2008 at 1:37 am Link to this comment

MuscleBoy writes:

“..But then again Democrats that trusted George W bush with 700 billion dollars and really no controls and minimal oversight should be shot(with legal process of course).  This is a major crime. 

~~~

So, if we can do this to the democrats that allegedly ‘trusted’ GWB with these billions and no oversight, (according to your post, it’s OK that the Republicans did it too) can we do the same thing to each and every moron who ever VOTED for the bastards to begin with? TWICE?? Could we just execute ALL of them for being stupid, and putting the rest of us at peril for the past 8 years?

That’s after due process of course.

Shift, on this:

By Shift, December 11 at 10:35 pm #

“People are rioting in Greece and it has now spread to Europe in Italy, Denmark, and Spain.  Can France be far behind?”

Ya know, based on the riots that France has already experience in the last few years, we might even see this as them being way AHEAD.  Matter of fact, I long ago realized that the Europeans aren’t as willing to stand by and allow their governments to slaughter them in the same ways that Americans have allowed ourselves to be ‘mis-MANAGED” over these past few decades.  To quote Michael Moore from his excellent film, SiCKO, in other parts of the world, (like Europe) the government is afraid of the people, instead of the other way around.

Meantime, we certainly DID tell them so, but something makes me think that ‘they’ (at least the thieves who perpetrated the scam) ALREADY KNEW IT! It was just another episode in a long and on-going heist.

I mean, if a MAJORITY of the conscious American public knew this, then they did too, which is why it was done with NO oversight. (they had time to write THAT much into the atrocity that Congress signed on to).

So yeah, we knew it, but so did they, and we still let them do it. Meantime, folks in the countries you’ve already named are rioting. Maybe the real question is, how far behind is the US, and are WE too late?

Something tells me that for that type of response action, (societies taking to the streets in riot form rather than subdued homeless form) is probably a futility at this point, since they’ve had several years to prepare their own response. Unbeknownst to those who’ve had little reason to pay attention, the size and scope of the ‘police state’ environment has drastically increased over the years of this administration, and we know well how demonstrators and/or other civil protest is likely to be greeted.

Chilling…but then that’s exactly what it’s been for so long now.

Report this

By marcus medler, December 12, 2008 at 1:18 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

This is an important summary of how American (imperial) elites continue to mislead the country. I was keen on the Minneapolis Fed’s report that credit has not frozen. So what is going on? I suspect that the crunch is at the global level. We are seeing some major tug of wars going on between global private banks, central banks, super wealthy individuals, and central governments. A non shooting war among various gangs(national interests) to settle scores and spread the fall out from the default of the U.S.(not declared but obvious). There is the concurrent effort to force the dollar out(down) from being the sole international currency. Soon we will see a new currency. It will flow between major global financial players. This global “money” will not belong to a national economy and will only be used to facilitate trade and not circulate within borders or between individuals. In the early 70’s the world emerged from a global financial crisis with the petrodollar. This was both a boon and a trojan horse for the American dollar. The ‘mistaken’ policies and arrogant, imperial frauds of Greenspan and “King of the Hill” New York global banks just hurried the inevitable. Their myopic, insular, tyrannical attitudes and policies ultimately forced the dollar dominated world debt exchanges to freeze. The financial international adjustment did not have to happen in this way, but an adjustment was in the cards.  Now what will this new paper be called?

Report this

By Muscleboy, December 12, 2008 at 12:19 am Link to this comment

REPUBLICON CRIMINALS NOT CONSERVATIVES(THAT IS THE SMOKE SCREEN PEOPLE!!)

They can tell us anything I suppose. But, the fact is, you can’t tell me that making stealing on a horrendous scale, legal, is deregulation—it’s crime pure and simple.  BANKS MUST HAVE CLEAR AND STRONG REGULATIONS AND REQUIREMENTS FOR TRANSPARENCY ANYTHING ELSE IS A **CRIME**. They stole vast amounts of money and yet all they get is another 700 billion no questions asked!!

And the Repulicon congressmen with all the foreign auto makers in their states are insisting we not help our own auto makers even with loans even though it could cost 1 in 10 to 1 in 4 American jobs.  The Japanese help their auto makers build alternative fuel cars with grants!  And why the heck don’t these Republicon congressmen have to register as foreign lobbyists…AGENTS OF A FOREIGN COUNTRY??  That is exactly what they are!!

Republicon traitors.

But then again Democrats that trusted George W bush with 700 billion dollars and really no controls and minimal oversight should be shot(with legal process of course).  This is a major crime. 

You can call it whatever you want it’s all crimes!!

We need to hold them on charges. 

Bush has been one mass murdering multi trillion dollar crime spree!  Yet the Bush justice department can only manage to arrest one poor governor for doing NOTHING but talking about doing relatively nothing things in comparison.  STRANGE HOW THE BUSH FBI WIRETAPPED THE GUYS PHONE FOR 5 YEARS STRAIGHT AND ONLY GOT SOME TAPE OF HIM TALKING IN HIS PRIVATE HOME ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF DOING SOMETHING ILLEGAL!!!  I mean people say all kinds of strange things in their homes.

Sorry but none of this makes a bit of sense.

Report this

By Shift, December 11, 2008 at 11:35 pm Link to this comment

People are rioting in Greece and it has now spread to Europe in Italy, Denmark, and Spain.  Can France be far behind?  Only when the demonstrations spread to the United States will the elite power structure take notice.  No amount of letter writing or phone calling will make any difference.  Only widespread civil disobedience will do the job.  Yes we told them so and they ignored the people.  For too many Americans conditions have become intolerable and it is only a matter of time before our streets too are lit up with civil disobedience.  The elites will surrender nothing short of massive action by the public.  Watch the spread of the European protests for they will likely ignite dissent here as well.

Report this
G.Anderson's avatar

By G.Anderson, December 11, 2008 at 10:45 pm Link to this comment

Thank you Mr. Sirota for saying this out loud.

However my concern is that it’s still not over.

The same deluded bunch from the ruling class that got us into this mess, continues unrepentant with their failed economic belief system. 

They continue for the most part to be insulated from the mess they made. Because they continue to benefit from it.

The Bottom line is that unless there is a rollback on the economic blitzkrieg that was directed against the working people of this country, by the 1%‘ers,  then we can kiss this country goodbye.

Report this
Right Top, Site wide - Care2
 
Right Skyscraper, Site Wide
Right Internal Skyscraper, Site wide

Like Truthdig on Facebook