Tom Peters, you are wrong and had better do some more research. GM has received close to a billion in state, local, and federal incentives since 2000. More than any of the manufacturers you mentioned. Ford has also received hundreds of millions.  Here are just a few articles about specific packages:

http://ref.michigan.org/medc/news/major/archive/combo. asp?ContentId=DFCD747C-EBBB-4470-B5F5-36CB5F550A24&Queu eId=2&ContentTypeId=7

http://www.ohio.com/business/27264544.html

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/20080923/gm-gets-22 -5-million-in-michigan-tax-incentives.htm

There is more here than just “Class Bigotry Mars Auto Debate”, it is the unfair advantage awarded to the non-Domestic automakers when it comes to handouts from state governments.

I googled the following: “total toyota state provided incentives”

What I got back from this search was the following, showing dates going back to approximately the year 2000:

Mercedes in Alabama:  $300,000,000
BMW in South Carolina: $150,000.000
VW in Tennessee:        $577.000,000
Toyota in Texas:        $301,500,000
                            —————-
Total:                    $1,328,500,000

I do not believe that this list is complete, and more important, these are not loans, but tax giveaways in terms of tax holidays, or specific custom construction or public works projects for these non-Domestic automakers.

These amounts are easily worth four times the amounts above in tax liability savings to these automakers.

Over a billion dollars to automakers who did not need it at the time, and most would have built a plant in the United States anyway, with or without incentives.

Again, they are building the same cars as the Domestics, not 1 mpg difference, in fact, in Texas they are building a full size truck that gets lower gas mileage then a comparable Chevy Silverado!

Where is the fairness?

Had Ford and GM received these types of incentives, would they have built a plant in Tennessee instead of Mexico?

Would they be in the same degree of trouble today if they had received these kind of incentives?

I believe if Ford and GM had received the same incentives, they would be in the same position as Honda and Toyota today.

And as I watched the Senate testimony, the Senator from Tennessee was dishing out the most criticism of the Domestic automakers.

Again, we should be in favor of issuing these loans. We would be loaning money to companies that actually make something (as compared to AIG), and whose knowledge base remains in the United States.

Or better, phase out industrial technology altogether.

All Hail Technology !!!
What most people don’t seem to realize is that we don’t need any of that crap to get along here on planet earth.If people would just take what they need from for themselves and their family without squirreling away loads of cash, there would be enough for all.
Robots eliminate jobs in a big way.
We invent new things every day, never thinking of the harm they will bring, but with tunnel vision towards profit.
Why the hell should someone have to spend 1/2 their life with their head buried in a technical manual in order to be able to raise a healthy family? You can worship science and technology all you want. Maybe one day someone will invent a way to bring back the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis who died simply because we want to worship automobiles. An industry whose founders bought up all the mass transit in the US that was eating up their profits.

I say, phase out all robots. Retrain the designers and software companies to do some real work for honest pay.
Because it feels good to ride the wave of technology doesn’t mean it is the right thing to do.

I say, feed that 1/6 of the planet’s population that is undernourished and having no clean water, then you can dream about your stupid robots.

The main effect of getting rid of the robots would be to raise the cost and so the price of the cars, thus causing fewer of them to be sold and putting the auto companies in an even deeper hole.

I think that getting rid of 90 percent of the labor stealing mechanical robots in industry would be a positive step in helping workers have more job security,

What about the job security of those that design, manufacture, sell, and service robots? How about those that write the software for them?  Those jobs have a future. Manual labor in auto manufacturing does not, for most.

Regressing to earlier, less efficient, less precise manufacturing methods would be the final nail in the coffin of US manufacturing. Robotics are the only reason the US can compete at all with foreign car makers.

People need to realize that the days of keeping one job your entire life and never having to retrain, re-educate, and promote yourself in the job market are virtually over. That have may have been the norm for your grandparents, but the world is changing too quickly for most people to have one lifelong job description.

I think that getting rid of 90 percent of the labor stealing mechanical robots in industry would be a positive step in helping workers have more job security, not to mention work that is more meaningful.Imagine the flood of jobs that would be created!

GM shares are only valued at 3 billion yet they are asking for 18, wish I could get a loan like that on my house, even better their plan is to reduce costs by laying off their labor force. I am not much on cages with wheels, 50 miles to the gallon, wind in my face on a 30 year old machine I built in my garage and when its done I probably will be to.
Maybe GM could by back the battery technology from the oil company they sold it to too so they could kill the electric car, I hear that maybe the future for four wheels.
Maybe people will have jobs that pay enough to go get loans from the banks that are ready to give our grandchildren’s money away.
Maybe workers will be paid for what they contribute.
Maybe it wasn’t Ford and Chrysler who in 1972 helped the military junta in Argentina by disappearing and torturing their union worker’s.
Maybe the obscene oil prices of last summer weren’t a calculated scheme to push this country into the recession that now will be used as excuse for more laws aimed at taking away more from us.
And just maybe pig’s fly out of monkey’s butts.

While the unions may be partly to blame, the primary reason the Big 3 are failing is because they continue to market too many boring, outdated, inefficient, unreliable cars that few people want to buy.

I am convinced GM will live or die based on the success of the Chevy Volt. If the can deliver what they have promised without the myriad of electrical problems that plague GM cars to this day, they may survive as a leaner, downsized company.  If the Volt fails to deliver, it is the end for GM.

UAW Losing Pay Edge: Foreign Automakers’ Bonuses Boost Wages in U.S. Plants as Detroit Car Companies Struggle

Thursday, February 01, 2007

From Detroit Free Press

The UAW is losing its edge in pay compared with non-unionized U.S. assembly plant workers for foreign companies, even as Detroit automakers aim for deeper benefit cuts to trim their losses.

In at least one case last year, workers for a foreign automaker for the first time averaged more in base pay and bonuses than UAW members working for domestic automakers, according to an economist for the Center for Automotive Research and figures supplied to the Free Press by auto companies.

In that instance, Toyota Motor Corp. gave workers at its largest U.S. plant bonuses of $6,000 to $8,000, boosting the average pay at the Georgetown, KY, plant to the equivalent of $30 an hour. That compares with a $27 hourly average for UAW workers, most of whom did not receive profit-sharing checks last year. Toyota would not provide a U.S. average, but said its 7,000-worker Georgetown plant is representative of its U.S. operations.

Honda Motor Co. and Nissan Motor Co. are not far behind Toyota and UAW pay levels. Comparable wages have long been one way foreign companies fight off UAW organizing efforts.

But Toyota workers’ pay topping that of UAW members comes as the union faces contract negotiations this year with struggling Detroit companies that will seek billions in concessions, partly because they face higher costs for retiree health care and pensions than their foreign-owned competitors.

Who’s to blame?

UAW Region 8 Director Gary Casteel said if Toyota workers were paid more than union workers last year, the blame lies with Detroit’s auto executives. The companies have lost market share because of past mistakes, which have translated into fewer bonuses for workers, said Casteel, who is on the union’s executive board.

“Our profit-sharing formula, I know, is better than theirs—if our vehicles are selling,” Casteel said.

Ron Lare, a 59-year-old Ford employee on pre-retirement leave, said Toyota workers shouldn’t get too excited about their wages because bonuses fluctuate. The only thing consistent, Lare said, is union protection.

“The floor beneath their feet is basically what the UAW has won,” said Lare of Detroit, who has worked at Ford for 28 1/2 years. “If the UAW gets beaten down, their pay is going to come down. You let there be a real recession in the auto industry—that bonus won’t be there for Toyota, either.”

Union perks vs. nonunion perks

The pay comparisons reflect the relative profitability of the foreign and domestic companies more than shortcomings of the UAW. But the situation chips at the argument that workers united in solidarity can get better wages, benefits and job security—especially as the UAW shrinks and growing foreign companies continue to ward off organizing efforts.

“How do you convince someone you’re better off with the protection of a union when they’re making more money than the union employee?” asked Alfred McLean, a 66-year-old hourly UAW member at General Motors Corp.‘s Warren Tech Center. He has 28 years of experience.

Workers for foreign automakers don’t pay union dues, but they do share the costs of insurance and retirement plans. UAW-represented autoworkers get health insurance and a full pension after 30 years—valuable perks they will fight to keep during contract negotiations this year.

But even accounting for Toyota employees’ health care spending—$700 per year on average, according to the company—the Georgetown workers still made more in 2006.

(continued, follow link for full article)

http://www.aftermarketnews.com/Item/28594/uaw_losing_p ay_edge_foreign_automakers_bonuses_boost_wages_in_us_plants _as_detroit_car_companies_struggle.aspx

Yes, you can be sure that the free-marketeers are salivating at the thought that they can use the economic downturn to de-unionize the car makers. These industries stand almost alone as US employers who have allowed strong unions which has resulted in good, safe working conditions and good pay for car workers while most other US workers don’t have the protection of strong unions and work in what are basically third world conditions for third world pay while they still have to pay first world prices for everything. The American working class is in a parlous state: overworked, underpaid and with no health care if they lose their jobs. The conditions are so bad that in any other country there would have been an uprising by now and if the laissez-faire fanatics get their way there will be no exceptions to the one and only rule they believe in: screw the workers.

Anarcissie- you raise issues I never thought about before.  That many employess don’t want the responsiblity of owning their firm tends to ring true.  Clearly this would have to change if any kind of cooperative or socialist power system were ever to emerge historically.

Jackpine- any suggestions as to why these car stats are so counter intuitive.

@happycamper.
North and South Dakota,Nebraska,Kansas,Missouri,Minnesota,Iowa,Wisconsin,Il linois,Indiana,Ohio, and Michigan.No Kentucky here.
http://hosted.ap.org/specials/election_night_2008/elec tion_map_premium/index.html?SITE=MASPDELN
There must be confusion on just what is a Midwest state.
Got a paper towel?

Conditions, one of the conditions should be that Ford and chrysler should be made to make the workers that they diaspeared in Argentina reapear and pay the tortured workers compensation for the torture they endured.
It is great watching the freemarketeers come hat in hand for a socialist hand out. But watch out once they get their money from the great American robbery they will continue their free market propoganda.

If Americans can’t buy cars then there will be a revolution.  Bloody mess.

Folktruther,

That is true, though it was actually GM that did the damage to public transport, not “the auto companies”.

It should be noted that November YoY numbers came out today.  Everybody was down by 30% or more…including the Civic.  The only model that i could find that made significant gains was the Toyota Sequoia…their supersized SUV.

Folktruther:
‘Anarcissie-What evidence is there that workers are uninterested in controlling their companies?  And if so, why do you think this is? ...’

Answer to first question: my repeated personal experience, and that of many others of whose experiences I have read or heard.  Note also that due to elevated wages during and after World War 2, and for several decades thereafter, it was financially possible for workers to buy out their bosses—the average capitalization per worker was about the same as a modest house, which in those departed days working-class people could actually buy without overextending themselves.  They didn’t seem to be interested.  I can only speculate as to the reason, but I do note that running a business is a lot of work and entails risk, which many people probably find unpleasant.  Those who are strongly attracted to “being their own boss” probably seek out such economic roles as contractors, sole proprietors, co-op members or partners in small businesses, leaving the less attracted to autonomy to work for large corporations.

Still, the corporate workers could form strong unions or take a significant equity position in their corporate employers, or both, which would enable them to hire other people to look out for their interests, but there doesn’t seem to be much interest in that either.

I don’t get the passive docility, given the cultural roots of the United States in crime, adventure, imperialism, race war, religious fanaticism, and other sorts of action-movie stuff; but there it is.

A structure does not get built from the top down, it gets built from the ground up.  Unless policy recapitalizes the poor and middle class, NOTHING will work to correct the economy.  Once people again can afford to buy a car the auto companies problems, with some sensible changes, will go away.  Fixing the Auto Companies without first fixing the poor and middle classes financially will result in failure, just as attempting to fix the banks will result in failure.  It’s the people’s income that needs fixing.  Then the people will pick the winners and losers in the auto industry.

If high salaries by company employees are an impediment to getting bailout money, then none of the financials should have been helped out.

As a condition of getting tax money, private sector employees should kick in also by lowering their compensation demands.  After all, if those high wages were justified, the company wouldn’t need the bailout, eh?

This is part of the foolishness that got us into this mess.

Who is going to buy the products our corporations make when all of us are unemployed?

Outsourcing doesn’t provide jobs to Americans, and American’s without jobs, or American’s underpaid cannot afford mortgages, or cars or college educations for their children.

They also can’t pay their taxes, and since corporations have legal ways to avoid taxes that leaves everyone in a bind.

What got us into this mess was outsourcing, and corporate labor practises that made American’s unable to buy the products that the corporations make.

After at least last 30 years of a government that did everything possible to increase the profit that corporations make, look at where we are.. A country facing bankrupcy…

We need to roll back the other crazy ideas, pushed through congress by the crazy Neo con’s, credit card Reform and bankrucpy reform, both of which are currently digging a whole for consumers, much like the one that we face on mortgages.

We also need to outlaw the selling of credit derivatives..which is at the bottom of this financial crisis.

How to maintain slave labor conditions and produce a product people will buy.  That’s the problem for the American auto industry.

The wonder of it, is that citizens and taxpayers aren’t, ”overwhelmed, even appalled, by the hundreds of billions” a complaisant congress “have already shoved out the door on behalf of the finance industry.” After all, they’re not taking up a collection among these “appalling” congressional appeasers and their toady lieutenants to fund these corporate welfare programs - “bailout fatigue” belongs to the paying public for decades to come. Their bailout, our check. The auto industry is a wantonly wasteful and environmentally destructive industry and should be allowed to collapse under it’s own obsolete weight. Now is a perfect opportunity to debate a new democratic, green economy. To put the same $25 billion – let alone $700 billion! - toward ecologically sustainable sunrise industries and to create a new economy and ethic beyond the decadent car culture of suburban sprawl and conspicuous consumption. Discard forever, the Fordism model of economic growth that’s as bankrupt as the industry that invented it.” A hideous class bigotry has disfigured this debate.”  Auto workers, who for years have been among the ‘labor aristocracy’ receiving wages and benefits far in excess of average workers pay, are now being cast in the role of indigent victims and used as pawns to ram through another corporate giveaway boondoggle. The high-powered executive pitch didn’t fly the first time, so now the corporate mendicants and their media shills will pitch it as a jobs program and try to pull at our heartstrings in a contrived Dickensian melodrama. The auto unions of course, for many years were happy to get fat off building environmentally-destructive gas guzzling vehicles, just like they were notoriously indolent in doing much when their union coffers were overflowing to help other segments of the labor force that were not nearly as privileged as they were. Fatcat union bosses paid themselves whopping salaries, lived the high life in plush offices with elaborate perks and hobnobbed with their corporate management class peers. In foreign affairs, the corporate unions have long supported the aims of American imperialism around the world and shown themselves time and again to be among the most jingoistic, flag-waving segments of society. The American Institute for Free Labor Development (AIFLD) founded in 1962 by the AFL-CIO to buttress American foreign policy was largely bankrolled by transnational corporations like ITT and Shell and over 90 others,; as well as generous support from government agencies like US AID and the CIA. The Chairman of the Board of AIFLD originally and also Chairman of the Board of the W.R. Grace Corporation, J.Peter Grace described the AIFLD mission as promoting “cooperation between labor and management and an end to class struggle” and “teaches workers to increase their company’s business”. And, of course,  “prevent communist infiltration, and where it exists . . . get rid of it”. This guiding philosophy led them, for example to support the CiIA instigated coup against the democratically elected govt. of Allende in Chile in ’73. The original AFILD has since morphed into the new American Center for International Labor Solidarity – or Solidarity Center- in the late 90’s; and is a component of the government’s National Endowment for Democracy” (NED), created by the Ray-gun regime. Not much else has changed however, the ACILS was complicit with its Venezuelan partner organization in the 2002 coup against Chavez. Another “model for how management and labor might team up to create better companies” but not “in a fairer, more productive economy”. But since the corporate unions have “teamed up” with management to make very large contributions to the campaign of Obama Copacabana - and the Democratic Party over the years - they’ll probably get what they want.

In his book THE BIG SQUEEZE, Steven Greenhouse explains that after WW11 the UAW union led the way in
gaining better wages and benefits for American workers.  They established the standard for other industries to follow.  There was an unwritten “Social Contract” to the effect that American workers deserved a decent share of the prosperity American industry had produced.  In tearing down the whole idea of a social contract, the UAW was the first target of the new corporate agenda in the early 80’s.  Today the country is practically union free.  The fear is that if there is a resurgence of a market for American made cars what will happen is that the UAW will gain strength
thereby ushering in a new period of strong organized labor.  That’s the last thing corporate America wants.  Before you know it far out radical nut cases would be talking again about a social contract.

Obama carried only seven of the twelve Midwest states. I wouldn’t call that a sweep.

Anarcissie-What evidence is there that workers are uninterested in controlling their companies?  And if so, why do you think this is?

Jackpine- you fail to point out that the auto and oil industry have lobbied against mass transit.  Indeed, a conspuracy distroyed the electic street cars in the cities at one time.

sorry: that should have read while denying them to legal American citizens. IF the American people have NOT YET uncovered the truth that the “illusion” of “freedom” is simply that: that our Gov is busy trying to DECEIVE us yet again: like it’s so fantastically proud of doing that they are running over to other countries paying the heads of countries billions of $ to “do it their way” which is quite simply, the heads of countries let the giant Corps from America in, & they get it all the the people get NOTHING. WAKE UP AMERICANS! is not FREEDOM worth FIGHTING FOR?

isn’t it just so fascinating that the PEOPLE of the USA are always the FAULT! FACTS: the model T made 100 years ago for the common man was built WITHOUT FORMALDEHYDE or chemicals to cause any harm to humans (nothing is made NOW with that unless under attack from the USA Gov); it ran on GRAIN ALCHOHOL causing NO POLLUTION at all! The GOV was bought by the oil company THEN: go & look up Teapot Dome Scandal; reality is THIS: ALWAYS every alternative to OIL has been VETOED by the GOV! Biodiesel is going out because of NEW LAWS with all kinds of restrictions: which is LUDICROUS because our “leaders” making the laws, are themselves operating outside of laws of USA, laws of Congress, & international law, & even declare: there IS no international law; HORSE PUCKY FOLKS: TRUTH: every patent made to better cars bought & put into vault; Japan had to sign treaty guarenteeing it would ONLY produce cars getting 20-25 MPG before being finally allowed into the USA. Lyndon Johnson squashed bio diesel & alternative fuels during HIS RULE: make no mistake, it is DICTATORSHIP. ALL sides agree but pretend “not to” to cause PEOPLES PERCEPTION to be that “we are free!” “we are good” it’s now the “big bad Corps who cause us poor little things to do this”; A car bought & brought over from Europe getting 50 MPG in later 70’s DESTROYED by officials per Gov demand: claiming “accident” when the person went to get the $1500 for customs. TRUTH: while overpricing for Americans our Gov freely gives out 2 brand new cars & trucks to millions of illegal immigrants, along with $, job preferencial, food stamps, while denying them to many immigrants, no interest loans like $3,000 for dental work; while denying medical coverage to citizens & if you do have coverage, well, the insurance companies liabiliity STOP the moment you get ill & they don’t have to cover a thing. (Federal law); do NOT tell me THIS IS THE PEOPLES FAULT!

It’s pretty clear that the sudden spike in oil to $140 a barrel just a few months ago played a major role in precipitating a massive and sudden contraction in spending, because overnight, people couldn’t even afford to drive to work or make their house payments, followed by a collapse of the mortgage and auto industries, bringing our economy to a state of acute crisis.

And guess why that happened?

It certainly wasn’t because there was a sudden, massive increase in oil consumption.

No; it was because there was a sudden ratcheting up of war threats against Iran from the Bush administration. And guess which constituency in the US has been lobbying longest and hardest and loudest for war against Iran? The Israel lobby, of course. Nobody else on God’s green earth wants there to be a war against Iran. But the US must always pursue a policy of maximum belligerency against anybody Israel doesn’t like, even if it ruins us.

First, do not lump all three companies together as they are very different situations.  Ford has invested heavily in making high quality products, and the dividends are beginning to show.  In fact, the FoMoCo doesn’t want a bailout at all; they would like to know that if the market stays soft that there will be a bridge loan.

Second, a $25B package tied to fuel efficiency improvements has already been approved.  Ford says that 75% of its next lineup will qualify for these loans.

Third, the fuel economy argument is a canard.  Everybody’s been building the cars that Americans want to buy.  The Toyota Tundra only gets 15 mpg; the FJ cruiser is at like 18; and my ‘87 Toyota pickup gets better mileage than a brand new Tacoma.  The Camry of 2009 actually gets worse mileage than the Camry of 1985.  And an ‘85 Escort diesel gets the same mileage as a Prius.

All the doodads that we expect and the safety that we “require” have physical costs.  Cars today are significantly heavier than they were 20 years ago, partly because of governmental requirements for crash testing.  Order a new car without AC and the mileage will increase drastically, but you’ll have to special order it because everyone wants AC.

Third, it is a myth that a UAW employee earns $70+/hr.  GM, in particular, adds all of the legacy costs that were supposed to be prefunded into their hourly figure.  The 2007 average was $28/hr with about $10/hr in insurance costs.  The new contract starts employees at $14.50/hr with reduced benefits.  Which, i might add, is less than a new hire at a US Toyota plant.  All of the legacy costs are set to be transferred to the UAW in 2010, except that GM is already saying that they won’t have the money to make their contribution.

Fourth, Ford makes well regarded vehicles for Europe but is having a hard time bringing the designs here because of different standards for crash/safety testing.  The government could ease this situation by working with the EU to make a single standard.

Fifth, keep an eye on GM/Chrysler.  GMAC (half owned by Cerberus, which owns Chrysler) is applying for bank holding company status.  If they get it they’ll be TARP eligible and i’d predict a bankruptcy filing shortly thereafter.

Lastly, Ford is still controlled by the Ford family, which made a decision to revamp the Rouge Complex rather than move (which would have been cheaper).  It now has the largest industrial green roof in the world (454,000 square feet) and a great many other environmental facets.  Not all of these companies are equally evil or practice fealty to the quarterly profits of doom equally.

And what right does the federal government have to harangue the Big 3 over bad management practices anyhow?  Have they looked at the gov’s books lately?  The Big 3 look like paragons of corporate governance compared to the federal government.

It was we who rushed headlong into the suburbs for long commutes.  It was we who demanded that cars be rolling houses rather than means from A to B.  It was we who didn’t care too much about long-term quality because we were just leasing anyhow. 

We want a scapegoat for our own short-sightedness, and we’ve found one in an industry that reflected that short-sightedness perfectly.  Nobody was forced to buy a full-sized truck that they don’t actually use.  No guns were held to heads to force the purchase of SUVs (and the Japanese sell a lot of them too).  Scapegoating is the American pastime and it is in full effect in this situation.

Many middle class people seem to resent working class people without college educations who get middle class pay—even when the jobs are hard work.  But bankers making millions destroying financial institutions don’t bother them.  Go figure!

Louise: ‘OK, I don’t understand how such things work, but couldn’t some sort of plan be worked out where the workers became the owners of the companies? ...’

It’s certainly feasible.  The Federal government could loan the workers, or some organization thereof, enough money to buy a majority equity position.  This would give the companies the money and the workers the control.  But do the workers want this?  Most American working-class people seem profoundly uninterested in controlling the companies they work at, that is, socialism.

bobo6: 20 TIMES??? NOOOOOOOO! Why? Maybe 4 times. I think jleman has a good concept but I don’t quite understand the incentive part. But the workers now can make much more than in the past largely because of ever improving automation. Far more work is done by robots. I know this, that is what I did for a living, design the firmware that operates robots. So a worker’s efficiency is greatly increased, and much more skill is needed than you might think. For sure the waste is in management, FOR SURE. This will get fixed because the greedy grabbers our way outnumbered. When it comes to push and shove, don’t you know.

@Louise: This is not a bad idea and one that has been done before in Argentina. I can’t recall everything about it - and I can only assume that it’s still working - hopefully someone can fill in my cracks and correct me if I’m wrong.

Basically - workers at a factory in Argentina kept going to work despite the fact that the owners had shut the place down. They continued to produce and found a market for their products and the process took off and spread to other factories in the country. Workers meet in a forum to discuss business matters and elect a leader at each meeting to facilitate. Representatives are also elected to meet with reps from other factories to discuss the trade of goods.

We’ve seen the democratization of authoritative institutions before. Religion in western Europe was democratized when printing books became common and people started to read and think and eventually act on their own beyond the norm established by the church. Our minds were freed from restraining beliefs.

Governments were (re)democratized - sometimes violently - sometimes not. None-the-less we were freed from restraining laws.

Now we need the democratization of the economy - from the factory floor to global trade - it needs to be the people that decide how resources are managed - not an oppressive church, not a dictatorial government, and not profit-oriented banksters.

Corporate welfare includes offering lucrative tax cuts and incentives to the Big Three for them to build 49% of their cars overseas and then offer them to American consumers as “Built in America”. End the tax scams for corporations and legalize for the consumers. Built in American means 100%. You get incentives for building better, efficient, longer lasting machinery and then competing against the global market. If they are in the range of competitivness, no incentives are needed. Take the money - with salary caps - which includes all compensation! Tie salary caps to worker’s wages. Give them a time limit of three years. If they can’t do it in three years, they can’t do it. Get someone else. Back an employee take over. Much like a cooperative. The workers can hire and fire their own managers.
In this manner, you can incorporate the expertise of the workers to solve their own delimmas. Everyone working toward the same goal. Not the management working to line their own pockets at the expense of the company and ultimately the workers and shareholders. If the workers become the shareholders, you would see changes and a synergy not seen since WWII in the factories.
Corporate welfare has fueled the present management - and look what it has gotten the public? Overbloated management and salaries while the direct labor jobs were sent overseas.
Unions? Just another manager between the workers and management to try and keep the management honorable. Shift gears to worker owned companies. Get rid of the tyrants in the workplace.

This is not a new agenda, it’s the same one Ronny was working so hard to accomplish during his Reign of Terror on the middle Class.
Funny how so many are demanding the Unions give up MORE wages & bennies (which they have been steadily doing since the ‘70’s auto collapse), Yet not a word about the top heavy white collar pencil pushers.
Heres an FYI for American Workers, the imatge they are painting of the Unions is Outdated by about 3 decades!
Another FYI the only reaosn American Workers are paid as well or even have Benefits is because the Original Union Organizers got their heads beat in to fight for them. Otherwise you’d be working 12 hour days, 7 days a week, in a shack behind the factory. You teeth would be falling out and your chronic illness would have debilitated you to the point you would be thrown in the ‘Debtors House’, Your Co worker would be some 8 yr old who can’t (and won’t be able to ) Read or write.
The Only Reason some have the Luxury of calling themselves White Collar is because a Blue Collar has produced enough to carry your Dead Weight! th eOnly reason You were Offfered the ‘Big bucks’ is because a Blue collar not only made the money to afford You a College education, they also afforded You a Middle mamangement position.
If the Middle management types haven’t figured it out already…If the Working middle class is destroyed, your ‘wealth’ and position in life with Tumble Too!
I fyou think the Top 5% gives a rats ass about you and assuring you have a decent living, or that your kids go to college or that you will be able to retire- You are dreaming. The Only thing holding the ‘Upper Middle Class’ Up IS the Working Middle Class (Notice the ‘Working’...Meaning Actual labor, to produce products which support your Salary and usefulness).
So go ahead cut the legs out from under the Unions one more time….It will cost you your Job Too!

Original ISSUES…Fair Days Work/Fair Days Wage…..But-as things go in ANY FREE ENTERPRISE SYSTEM[i.e.I’ll wash your hands if you wash mine]...There were those wanting ALL THE CHICKENS IN THEIR OWN POT and also THE RIGHT TO DOLE THEM OUT TO THEIR HAND PICKED PEOPLE…and when THEY REALIZED THEY COULD HAVE MORE CHICKENS WITH LESS OVERSIGHT and PAY PEOPLE LESS MONEY[even tho QUALITY would be sacrificed] in SOME COUNTRY WITHOUT E.P.A. LAWS>>>>>They JUMPED ON IT!!!Never Mind the LOYAL EMPLOYEES WHO BUILT AMERICAN and BOUGHT AMERICAN…Thanks to “ole bullshit” there IS NO WORRY ABOUT OUR “INDUSTRIAL BASE” since he has ALLOWED-[no>let me rephrase] ENCOURAGED IT TO LEAVE THIS COUNTRY…I DID NOT SEE THE PRICE OF CARS GO DOWN WHEN THEY WERE BUILDING THEM IN SOUTH AMERICA-I DID SEE THE QUALITY GO DOWN and THE COMPANIES C.E.Os GET BIGGER BONUSES….All at the EXPENSE of the AMERICAN WORKERS…When you DO NOT HAVE JOBS-YOU CAN NOT PURCHASE PRODUCT-THERE IS NO “TRICKLE DOWN” TO THE SMALLER “SUPPORT” EMPLOYERS[i.e.-goods and services]-I did not strike for higher wages-I struck to keep my job in this country foy your son or daughter-Another LEGACY to lay on “ole bullshits” GRAVE!!!

The first step that should be implemented is that no policy making individual should be paid more than 20 times the average wage paid to the workers There is not one of those people that can do the work of twenty line workers,Anything more than that is stealing. Then we go from there.

OK, I don’t understand how such things work, but couldn’t some sort of plan be worked out where the workers became the owners of the companies?

I know the corporate CEO’s wouldn’t like this, but maybe it’s time we let them know they haven’t really earned their keep.

So turn ownership over to the folks who’s labor has kept the Big Boys fat and happy, and let the Big Boys answer to the workers for a change!

The $25 Billion should go to Low interest Low down payment loans for High M.P.G. cars. We should use the T.A.R.P. money and relax credit score standards so more people can qualify. The Auto Industry is, after all, In the business of selling cars. If this doesn’t help then NOTHING WILL!

The impotent 3 will get their bailout or tide-over simply because it is the political-rather than souundly economic-thing to do. We’re talking present and future constituents’ votes, here. The reality is thousands of jobs throughout the various automotive sectors will be lost: prior to this handout lay-offs had been scheduled to begin incrementally as part of the auto makers’ cost-cutting plans. These jobs will not be saved with federal largesse. But the bedraggled workers will believe someone tried to help them at their 11th hour. The Congress is betting on this smoke and mirrors, the collateral benefit of cost-overrun dementia.