By Fadel Abdallah, November 30 at 8:23 pm #
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Sorry, Fadel, the piece slipped away before I had a chance to make it readable for you.

But that doesn’t change a word of the truth.  Here is the amended version just for Fadel.
—————————————-

What BS!  Fadel. I was around at that time and I was present when The Egyptians kicked out the UN Peacekeepers so that they could attack Israel. Did they, the Syrians and the Jordanians ever get a surprise!  I saw firsthand how the Palestinian Arabs differed from the Jews and who was mistreated and who was not, who was kicked out and who was not.

The truth of the matter is that the UN partitioned the Palestine Mandate and the Brits, I am ashamed to say, put every roadblock they could in the way of the possibility of a Jewish state succeeding. The Arabs and Palestinian shouted bloodbaths and extinction of the Jews, and when the new state was declared, the Palestine were not kicked out but they scrambled when the much-vaunted Arab combination had its ass kicked. There was one terrible incident where the Irgun massacred a number of Arabs/Palestinians, to their eternal disgrace, but this was little compared to years of raids on kibbutzim and other Jewish settlements.  The Palestinians fled because they expected the Jews to treat them the same way they threatened to treat the Jews. Instead, those Palestinians who would not give allegiance to their new state, despite Jewish promises of equity in education, health care and general citizenship, fled in panic.

And then they became pawns of the Arab countries, a permanent running sore, just what the Arabs wanted to remind the world “how cruel the Israelis were.”

I pity the state that the Palestinians are in but it is first, due to their own doing, and secondly, due to a heartless non-acceptance by the other Arab countries, to whom the continuing running sore festers propagates Arab and Islamic hatred.  They should be venting their spleen against the other Arab nations who turned them away, not the Israelis.  After 60 years of this bullshit, who wouldn’t build a wall.

Chris Hedges, a writer in Truthdig who has spent a quite a while in the Mid East also has a sympathetic view to the Palestinians and he should know better.

I am neither Israeli nor Jewish but the bullshit the Arabs peddle about there being neither a Holocaust nor a continuous up-hill battle for the Jews to find a safe home. Surely the Palestinians could have found room both in their hearts and in the land that is both their ancestral place of origin,  Palestine. Instead th Palestinians got 60 years of grief. They should blame the Brits who made one promise to the Arabs freed up from the Ottoman Empire and another to the Jews looking for a home after 2000 years of pogroms and assassinations.

My experience with most Arabs and Palestinians is that they have devastated lands that others have made flower, they many are ignorant and uneducated, they whine and moan about their conditions but won’t take a shovel in hand to dig a hole for their own s—t.

It is time to stop this parade of untruths favouring the Palestinian Arabs. Why don’t the wealthy sheiks and effendi lolling in oil splendour, the Saudis, the Iranians and so on send them aid instead of bombs and bullets?

Fadel, I am old but my memory is clear as is my knowledge of the facts.

By MAR, November 30 at 7:44 pm #

By Fadel Abdallah, November 30 at 4:01 pm #

What BS!  Fadel. I was around at that tiem and I was present when The Egyptians kicked out the UN Peacekeepers so that they could attack Israel. Did they, the Syrians and the Jordanians ever get a surprise!  I saw firsthand how the Palestinian Arabs differed frfom the Jews and who was mistreated and who was not, who was kicked out and who was not.
===================
MAR! Why don’t you go to a grammar school to learn how to spell and write a coherent passage before you come to give us a sample of your rants that no one would understand!

By Fadel Abdallah, November 30 at 4:01 pm #

What BS!  Fadel. I was around at that tiem and I was present when The Egyptians kicked out the UN Peacekeepers so that they could attack Israel. Did they, the Syrians and the Jordanians ever get a surprise!  I saw firsthand how the Palestinian Arabs differed frfom the Jews and who was mistreated and who was not, who was kicked out and who was not.

The truth of the matter is that the UN partitioned the Palestine Mandate and the Brits, I am ashamed to say, put every roadblock they could in the way of the possibility of a Jewish state succeeding. The Arabs and Palestinjians shouted bloodbaths and extinction of the Jews, and when the new state was declared, the palestians were not kicked out but they scamnbled when the much-vaunted Arab combination had its ass kcked. There was one terrible incident where the Irgun massacred a number oif Arabs/Palestinians, to their eternal disgrace disgrace but this was little compared to years of raids on kibbutzs and other Jewish settlements.  The Palestinians fled because they expected the Jews to treat them the same way they threatened to treat the Jews. Instead, those Palestinians who would not give allegiance to their new state, despite Jewish promises of equity in education, health care and general citizenship, fled in panic.

And then they became pawns of the Arab countries, a permanent running sore, just what the Arabs wanted to emind the world “how cruel the Israelis were.”

I pity the state that the Palestinians are in but it is first, their own doing, and secondly a heartless non-acceptance by the other Arab countries, to whom the continuing runnning sore festers continued Arab and Islamic hatred.  They should be venting their spleen against the other Arab nations who turned them away, not the Israelis.  After 60 years of this bullshit, who wouldn’t buid a wall.

Chris Hedges, a writer in Truthdig who has spent a quite a while in the Mid East also has a sympathetic view to the Palestinians and he should know better.

I am neither Israeli nor Jewish but the bullshit the Arabs peddle about there being no Holocaust nor a continuous up-hill battle to find a home, and surely the Palestinians could have found room both in their hearts and in Palestine. Instead they got 60 years of grief. They should blame the Brits who made one promise to the Arabs freed up from the Ottoman Empire and another to the Jews looking for a home after 2000 years of pogroms and assassinations.

My experience with most Arabs and Palestinians is that they have devastaed lands that others have made flower, they amany are ignorant and uneducated, they whine and moan about their conditions but won’t take a shovel in hand to dig a hole for their own s—t.

It is time to stop this parade of untruths in favour of the Palestinian Arabs. Why don’t the wealthy shieks and effendi lolling in oil splendour, the Saudis, the Iranians and so on send them aid instead of bombs and bullets?

“...and by using military force prudently and cautiously.”
===============
Mr. E.J. Dionne! Could you kindly write another article with specifics about how military force can be used prudently and cautiously!

Would he, for example, use military force prudently and cautiously, to force Israel out of the land it militarily occupied 60 years ago; to my knowledge the oldest occupation in modern history. This is an occupation that is at the center of all the geopolitical conflicts in the world, whose elimination, I am convinced, will usher a new era of peace the world over.

Because I know the answer, I don’t expect one; just wanted to challenge your big empty statements!

Labels, labels. As I recall conservatism, the right, aims to preserve, left radicalism intends to change. The far left spectrum is Marxist absolutism; the far right is capitalistic absolutism. It is only in between that some mneasure of freedom for all can be found.

“Liberal” or Whig and “Conservative” or Tory are party names. Edmund Burke was a radical in supporting the American Revolution and a conservative in not supporying the French Revolution a few years later. The American Revolution did not threaten the status quo in Britain, wheras the French Revolution did if those same principles were to croiss the English Cnannel.  The Atlantic was sufficiently wide for Edmund, I presume.

Mr. Dionne has been a “liberal” that is right winger for a long time.  Why do so many people here confuse terms?  A liberal is not necessarily on the left. The founder of the modern conservative movement was a liberal, Edmund Burke.  In Europe and many other countries the liberals are the right wing party. Only in the USA are liberals thought to be ultra moderate social democrats who at the drop of a hat turn into conservatives or even reactionaries like Bill & Hillary Clinton. Bill and Hillary have no problem in killing people to impose the capitalist system as they did in Yugoslavia.I am certain if Hillary was influential in Foreign policy we would be at war fairly frequently. Typical self righteous liberal, I am certain she will try to overthrow the Chavez regime.

I call these type people the murderous liberals. Actually the scum of the earth. The enemy of the people. These type liberal people laugh at me when I suggest radical proposals such as Nader’s or Kucinich’s proposals for a department of peace. They claim I am not a “realist” when I suggest that Palestinians are people also and want to live in peace.

Yea, I voted for Obama but held my nose tight. From the get go he stank when he betrayed his earlier views when he first moved to Chicago. Typical liberal.

But he was the lesser of two evils and that is important.  He helps change the zeitgeist if we the real left try to use it as we should. Obama says he wants to leave the world a better place. It is up to us to make it so.

RdV
Where do you get this stuff? Can you supply evidence and support for what you say? Are you one who simply has an opinion and judges it correct because you say so?
What emerging republicanism? What does republicanism mean? Facts, please. Evidence, please.
“Voices in the wilderness”? Where? Name some whose voices are “in the wilderness.”
Obama’s betrayal? He isn’t president, yet. How can he betray? What source can you cite that shows he is betraying us?
I want to believe you’re not, but you come across as a self-appointed expert who in reality is just another empty blogger with nothing else to do but sit in front of a computer and expound drivel, which is your right to do.
I am so glad people like you appear to be are not in power; we have enough of those in power already.
Gaylordcat,
What a great post! On this:
•  “..I have to conclude that you do read, sort of, and keep up, sort of, but most of you read assuming you are absolutely right. So facts are not needed. You, in fact, are the facts….”
I think I love you. (no sexual harassment intended). I especially appreciate the part about these posters, “in fact, being the facts”. It’s so true, and I chortled when I read it. Based on your other posts that I’m just now getting a chance to read, you’ve sized the scene up immediately, and articulated it masterfully.
I’ve frequently been the Wicked Witch of the West here at TD, for bringing up that facts and references issue. Things like that are a violation of the religion of anti-intellectuals. And…don’t EVEN let it be something they’ve made up about Barack Obama, (when I question this stuff and where it came from) because then I’m accused of ‘defending’ him. Now how flippin’ amazing is that? The president –elect of the USA is dependent on a homeless blogger for ‘defense’ of his political ideology and intellect.
Anyway, just as a semi-heads up, there is an element of the rabbit hole (as in Alice- in- the- Land-of…maybe OZ) here on these Truthdig forums. Some might even say bizarre and delusional. I could go on. But, it’s really a mixed bag, and I agree that we are fortunate in that these people are NOT in power.  It’s just not enough to sort of read, or sort of keep-up, if one just makes up their own facts as they go along. I call ‘em all the Crystal Ball Gang, or sometimes The Malcontents just for variety. Some of them have been predicting Obama’s actions for over a year. By now they’re convinced that he’s already done all the stuff they predicted he was gonna do then, even though the guy hasn’t even taken office yet. For them, it’s like, “what’s that got to do with anything?”

Now on this, I say you’ve hit the jackpot.

“..I have one idea why so many arm chair politicians are sniping at Obama, and my idea will be attacked by all of you who definitely know all things. Here it is: Unless you’re African American, you’re probably hacked off that the black guy (let’s never use the “n” word in public)won; “one of those” will be in the White House and in charge, and everyone knows “they” are not capable of doing anything that requires thought. Go ahead, attack it. Don’t care. It’s just an idea. But having been raised by a father who believed that Jim Crow was God’s Command, I’ll bet I’m right that some of you believe it, too.”

You *ARE* right. Fortunately, the numbers of these folks have dwindled, which is what you were just talking about. But, they damn sure haven’t gone away completely. Racism is an institution very resistant to extinction. But then, even now, ignorance has proven to be equally resistant to the same, and that does trouble me.

Leisure Suit said:

Maybe O’biden is different. maybe somewhere in his Rezco/Wright influenced mind he has a thread of common decency.

Who are you talking about? Obama was said to be connected to Rezco and Wright. What’s with the O’biden thing.

If you’re going to be critical, use the correct names.

First…...Good on you, Mr.Dionne!

and to..
gaylordcat, MAR, and Birch (who can still hope..’-), I say….
Thank you for your functional voices of sanity….

Purple Girl:....You’re always kinda wild, but by golly…your warm heart does
repeatedly come through….

Please, Do Not Despair, any of you….
It does Not Help!..rather, of course,it ushers in masses of hindrance….

This great mystery play requires careful attention;what shall we together build?

I do pray daily: May Mr.Obama LIVE to fulfill his human potential…
.....All else is truly moot…..
.....Inner.Calm is such a good “site” to visit….
Service, in any form, is such a great way to direct a wild mind…

Strive on, friends….Please.

Gaylordcat: You are calling them right - the self appointed cats who have nothing to do but pound drivel on their keys.

This is another superb piece by Dionne. Only thing is George Bush ! had more bucks to play with and understood the problems of proceding into Iraq> Did the lesson not get thru to W? Of course Cheney and Co were pulling the strings.

If Obama truly intends to withdraw from Iraq, he is going to need cover from the right. If he had a very liberal Defense Secretary and started withdrawing troops, he would be immediately accused by the right of “losing the war in Iraq,” of failing to protect American interests. It took Nixon and Kissinger, for example, to open the door to China. Had a liberal president done so, he would have been lambasted by the China/Taiwan lobby, which was quite powerful at the time. Having a fairly conservative defense team would tend to disarm, to some degree, right wing criticism. The downside of this approach is that he may just become a captive of his more conservative advisers and give up on his withdrawal pledge. Certainly, the idea expressed during the campaign of increasing troops in Afghanistan is entirely unsound. The realities of our financial situation may make it necessary for him to accelerate the withdrawal from Iraq and scale down any surge in Afghanistan.  We can hope, at any rate.

By RdV, November 28 at 10:28 am #
gaylordcat”

Pretty shadows on the cave wall, aren’t they?
Why don’t you come out here in the clear light and see what the world really looks like?

You’re so vague. I don’t know what you mean. What I know: adept politicians know how to manipulate crowds; American crowds are mostly made of very ignorant people; American voters cannot be counted on to do the right thing; Obama—a very adept politician—played the crowds like Perlman plays a violin; when elected adept politicians become potters and shape their campaign promises according to their creative bent; Obama is shaping his now.

I have no illusions about Obama; he is not a savior, and to push that title on him is stupid and unfair. But it is going to be placed upon him and he will fail anything he does in the eyes of a lot of people. He will succeed in the eyes of a lot of people, too. He is human. Surprise, surprise.

For me the end of the present administration of George W. Bush, the cretin, is a time of joy. If McCain had won, I probably would be as joyful that the Bush years are over.

Even if Obama fails to live up to what people expect of him, and he most assuredly will, he will in my view be brilliantly better than Bush. I expect him to disappoint me. I expect him to delight me. He is a flawed human being like I and, to give him his due, like George W. Bush, who is human, too, and did a very sincere job of wrecking the world.

Yes, the shadows on the cave wall are pretty. For me they indicate hope. And so does the clear light right now in anticipation of possibilities.

Finally, none of it is important. What we have is only the moment, and my moment seems pretty good.

Obama had best wake up and understand that the US military at his disposal is exhausted, demoralized, and needs a lot of rest before he can even think about new foreign interventions—possibly even a “surge” in Afghanistan may be beyond its capabilities.

And the economy is virtually a wreck.

In other words, if he really does intend to “(trade) the foreign policy of the second President Bush for the foreign policy of the first President Bush”, he’d better recognize how things have changed for the worse in nearly two decades.

gaylordcat”

  Pretty shadows on the cave wall, aren’t they?
  Why don’t you come out here in the clear light and see what the world really looks like?

By RdV, November 28 at 9:23 am #
And so, all the justifications and rationale begins to spin Obma’s emerging Republicanism as “smart” or “pragmatic”.

There are voices in the wilderness already and even when it rises to a univeral roar, the pundits and chattering class will be mining yet another excuse to cover Obama’s betrayal.

RdV

Where do you get this stuff? Can you supply evidence and support for what you say? Are you one who simply has an opinion and judges it correct because you say so?

What emerging republicanism? What does republicanism mean? Facts, please. Evidence, please.

“Voices in the wilderness”? Where? Name some whose voices are “in the wilderness.”

Obama’s betrayal? He isn’t president, yet. How can he betray? What source can you cite that shows he is betraying us?

I want to believe you’re not, but you come across as a self-appointed expert who in reality is just another empty blogger with nothing else to do but sit in front of a computer and expound drivel, which is your right to do.

I am so glad people like you appear to be are not in power; we have enough of those in power already.

And so, all the justifications and rationale begins to spin Obma’s emerging Republicanism as “smart” or “pragmatic”.

  There are voices in the wilderness already and even when it rises to a univeral roar, the pundits and chattering class will be mining yet another excuse to cover Obama’s betrayal.

E.J.
When are you going to realize most posters here think you are a neo-con, no different than George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Pat Robertson?  That they see you as no different than Fox Noise Nonsense, and your contrast with David Brooks is a phony?

You and Gene Robinson are voices here of reason and common sense, so expect to dragged over the coals because you aren’t modern neo-Marxists.

Just read the posts…..

No, Obama is not promoting the policy of the first Bush, but of Bush the second.  Because that is what he inherited: the gross economic mess, the War on Terrorism, and the emerging police state. 

The increaed power of the ruling class since Bush 1, which pushed through deregulation, largely under Bill Clinton, is what Obama inherits.  Instead of opposing it, he is uniting both the Dems and Gops to support it, while rejecting progressive policies.

Because he only has two choices.  He can go to the center of the Elite political consensus that gave him the money to get elected, and continue Bushite policies.  Or he can go to the center of the population consensus and mobilize them for the progressive policies they want.

Obama has chosen the ruling class consensus, particularly the values of the Zionist ruling class, which is highly organized and repressive.  In doing so he is betraying the Hopes of the rank and file activists that supported him, like PurpleGirl.  His progressive supporters do not want to accept the reality of his military, corporate and police state policies.  They want to retain their hopes for Change.

This Change is a politial con.  And Obama is a political conman.  There is nothing else he can be.  It is End Times for the American power system: it has become too oppressive, corrupt, inefficient and obsolete to rule for much longer.  But the implications of this end to the American regime, and American ideology,  is too stark and surreal for most people to accept yet.  But it gets harder and harder to deny political reality over a longer period of historical time.

I’m a ‘Lefty’, voted for Kucinich in the Primary. Not just becaues Hillary was able to handicap the Field in MI, but because he was the candidate which best reflected my ideals. I knew he wouldn’t win. But I wanted to make my voice heard too.
Once Kucinich got expectedly kneecapped, I began volunteering for the Obama campaign. I went door to door,Phone banked and held a house party. first time I have EVER volunteered for a national campaign (only my mayors).It’s called REALITY and not cutting your nose off to spite your face. He was the Best candidate.Period.
although I am not thrilled with the Gates nor clinton appointments…I understand them, to a point.
It’s not even the fact Obama has been able to sidestep crap or rise above it, it’s the Fact he has created a network by which the Citizens are far more Organized and engaged. He may have created his own Frankenstein.
What is becoming annoying is the current criticism coming at such irrelevant moments. He’s only naming these people, they are not confirmed, nor have they been controlling things in those areas (Geithner only ‘sorta’). I have no doubt thsoe bitching now are many like myself who have been bitching for the last few decades. But many are those who have failed to bitch until NOW. Where were all these Outraged Folks while Clinton was letting Wallstreet pass legislation; and certianly Where have you Been Since Cheneycorp took over the country. Are you all making up for lost time and now deciding to hold the Black mans feet to the fire of Public scrutiny for Others Past Sins? These People he is naming were working UNDER a Presidential agenda.Which I think, once again,Pres Elect Obama made abundantly clear- Who’s the Commander and What’s the ‘Vision’. although I wish he would have said the ‘vision’ comes From the People and is Represented by the Presidents authority.We Are Still The Bosses!
Besides if you are going to find out where ALL the bodies are buried, you need to elicit help from those who know first hand….Just like destroying other Organized Crime Syndicates.