Dear Robert:

Kudos to you for having the courage and intellectual honesty to write this article. It’s never easy to do that, and not that you should care what I or anyone thinks, but it was well done.

I would love to be wrong about Obama. I look forward to writing something analogous to your piece if and when that occurs. I’ve never wanted to be wrong about something so much in my life!

Best, Doug

Jaki—I see what you are saying, but, you are fortunate to live where you can do these things. I do a garden every year (sure not now in the Rust Belt!)and we have a small community garden (I cant work either as much as I woudl like). My father’s place, about 5 acres, just sold for nothing—and the people who bought it are going to put condos on it—no food will be grown there anymore..I remember whole acres of pumpkins, watermelon, peppers, etc, all fertilized with rabbit and horse manure!

My sisters just couldnt afford to keep it anymore, and, I cant afford to live there. No one was going to “farm” it—no one “farms” anymore—its all agri-business…I think PE Obama has actually talked about cutting those subsidies, but only to those makng OVER $2.5 million a year! Way too high!

If we could grow more soy and less corn (mostly fed to cattle), more vegetable crops—but, if you watched Pollan, you know where we have to start with that—big agri-business!

I have worked in plenty of restaurants, mostly fast food. The amount they make you throw away is disgusting. You arent allowed to give it away , or, often take it home. They usually say, “well, what if they get sick and sue us”, or some other such inane thing. I got fired—twice , I think?—for giving it away (when throwing out the trash), or, trying to take it home.

The US lifestyle just seems to assume that things will just “keep on coming”...although Pollan is not a “food fascist” (which I appreciate), he does talk about the extravagent waste of resources such as water, grain, as well as antibiotics…also one of the biggest contributors to water and air pollution. A 2006 UN reported stated that the “world’s livestock generate more greenhouse gases than the entire transporatation industry”.

Again, as you probably read, he does not “insist” on giving up on any one food.(especially not all meat—although, if most people actualy SAW…) But, we have to know that the way the general US population eats is unsustainable..

There is a woman in San Jose, CA., as reported recently by one of those news mags (like 60 Min.), who has for six or so years been collecting fruit from the backyard trees of people who have abundance and can’t use it.  The first year, a couple of thousand pounds, this year 10 times that much.  Word spread. She created an organization (can’t remember the name, unfortunately—something like Abundant Harvest) Then she distributes it to food banks and individual poor people, with her growing team of volunteers.

Once a week I go to my local natural foods store and pick up large plastic bags of produce they are discarding, almost all of it still edible (they have new stuff coming in all the time).  I feed it to my chickens, but I often see other people sorting through it for themselves.  There is a lot of “waste’ that could be organized and distributed.

I live in a rich agricultural area where I see food left in the fields after two pickings that is still good.  It gets plowed under after a week or so. The orchards have tons of fruit left on the ground.

Restaurants are notoriously wasteful in terms of what they throw away to make way for “fresh” and the size of portions they give people, which rarely gets completely eaten.  A campaign to down-size portions in restaurants would go a long way to creating a surplus available for others, as well as smaller waistlines for those who can afford restaurants.

It is not difficult to grow a garden on a very small plot of land.  The food guru, Michael Pollan, recently on Bill Moyers’ Journal, said he grows all of his own veggies, and gives some away, in a garden box (or plot)  that is ten feet by 20 feet.  He also does it for spiritual reasons—staying tuned in to The Earth’s energy, and having direct contact with the life force that he takes into his body.  Plus, it nourishes his spirit to give away that which he has grown.  Many of us could do that.  Dig up those lawns!  Put in a veggie garden, share with your neighbors and those in greater need.  Adopt a family in your (or another) neighborhood.

Chickens are a great source of protein just in the form of eggs, which are one of our healthiest foods, especially if raised free range and organic.  I have been raising chickens for over 40 years.  I don’t eat them, just their eggs, but I get great joy from having them in my life.  They are very intelligent, interesting beings, with individual personalities. There is no better egg than one that was laid that morning by your own hens, who are fed organically and cruise around eating bugs and green stuff.
AND, they recycle just about everything you want to throw at them—all garbage—and create fertilizer for your garden.  Raise chickens and distribute the eggs to your adopted families.

I know these are very individualized ideas and do not address the root of the problem—elite class selfishness, power politics,  and unequal distribution of wealth.  We have to work on these things continuously over lifetimes.  I believe someday we will get there. 

However, we also can do small things to help others, individually and collectively.  There are many ideas out there and knowledge about what others have taken on and accomplished—community and neighborhood gardens, adopting individual families and taking them food and clothing, etc.  Let’s just put out more and more ideas and maybe some will take the ball and run with it.

The situation is desperate and will get more so.

We need to SHIFT our awareness from things we can do very little about in terms of life and death impact, though I do not deny it is important to speak truth to power and organize.  But at the same time, we can create space in our awareness and action to actively start DOING things that will help individuals and families survive in these dark times.

Think of how many hours you put into blogging.  Those hours in a garden will, I guarantee, bring you much more nourishment, physically, emotionally, spiritually.

Shift—Sadly, your question, “should someone steal to feed his or her starving children”, or themselves, has already been answered.

Check out Jeremy Scahill’s “Blackwater”. The people you saw shooting people during Hurricane Katrina, for “taking bread and pop”, that were shot? Yep.

The GOP sent them in, the Dem Governor deputized them, and, the Dem Mayor just let it happen.

I wonder if the people who sent money to Obama’s campaign, who, maybe now wish that they hadnt , are entitled to a refund that is donated to their local food bank…

This hunger will get worse under Obama and there are worse things than hunger.  It is a product of unregulated globalization that will continue along with the wars that the US substitutes for economic efficiency. 

The worst is the hunger of children who cannot learn in school until fed. But war takes up the expenditures that would otherwise be spent on the population.  And the American power structure has militarized the police with SWAT teams and stationed twenty thousand American soldiers in the US for use on the American population.  So the US is prepared for food riots, in this country as in the others it occupies.

Is starving with dignity in the wealthiest country in history a virtue? 

Should a father or mother with no financial options watch their children go hungry, or should they break the law and steal to feed them? 

Will Washington and State Governments wait until small decentralized revolutions (food riots) break out before focusing on and relieving hunger?  Probably!

Caring people are helping to the point of their own detriment by giving what they can and fasting in solidarity to provide what they can while most ignore the reality of serious hunger in America.

There will be no money infused at the bottom of the economic heap until the debate is changed to focus on the bottom.  That focus will not emerge in Washington but instead with us.  Rage on!

People are hungry, it is up to us to show some solidarity and help those less fortunate, and government surely isn’t going to. Someone said “1 dollar from 20 million people should do it”, an easy exercise, well I am hard pressed to believe that 20 million people even give a shit.
But maybe that was just a comment from someone who believes they are entitled.

And by the way the shit started this time in 1963 on a Texas street.

So fact and figure away, and argue the merits of who said what the fact is it is going to get much worse before it gets better.

BTW, that $10,404 annual income is a measly $5.00 hr. for a single person.

Additionally, that $35,604 annual income for the family of eight translates as $2.14 hr. per person or $8.56 hr for the two “breadwinners”.  That’s assuming of course a 40 hour work week full-time, but of course that isn’t always the case at these “fire sale” wages, is it?

Hunger is at epidemic proportions and getting worse. From MSNBC:

“The 44-year-old food-stamp program, which was revised Oct. 1 and renamed the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, in part to fight the stigma, has strict eligibility criteria. Benefits are intended to go only to households with net incomes at or below the federal poverty level, which ranges from $10,404 a year for single person to $35,604 for a family of eight.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27827700/

>These incomes levels are EXTREMELY LOW making qualification for help out of the reach of many.  The income level is one aspect that needs changing.

An article from the LATIMES, highlights the situation:
”Breaking the symbolically important 30-million mark comes on the heels of government data that showed that 11.9 million people went hungry in America at some point last year. That included nearly 700,000 children, up more than 50% from the year before.

Food pantries and other charitable organizations are also reporting an increase in demand from those in need. Visits to local pantries are up 20% to 100% over the last six months, and calls to the Capital Area Food Bank’s hunger hotline have jumped 248%. Most are from people who have never used food stamps or a pantry before, said Lynn Brantley, the organization’s president and CEO.”

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-n a-food-stamps26-2008nov26,0,5485670.story

Another take from the “Bloomington Alternative”:
“ average food stamp allotment for one person is $21 a week. That means they get $3 a day and $1 per meal. Not quite the budget needed for a well-balanced diet. So, to bring awareness of this issue, town leaders participated in the Bloomington Food Stamp Challenge last week….

....Food stamp survival is cruelly uncertain,” Mayor Kruzan wrote. “At the end of this week, we participants will no longer worry about amortizing our groceries or restraining our restaurant visits. Our fellow citizens - those living the real deal - won’t share our good fortune.”

http://www.bloomingtonalternative.com/articles/2008 /11/30/9836

>He’s right.  It is cruel.  We have laws against cruelty to animals, aren’t we humans animals?

There was also this from CBN:
““Some wait over 12 hours,” he told CBN News. “We had a three-o’clock distribution today and I’ve seen people line up beginning at 2:30- 3 a.m…..”

The non-profit group Feeding America oversees 200 food banks across the country which supply 63,000 food pantries. This year, the pantries report demand for food is up by 20 percent. That translates into an average of 4 million people standing in line for food every week.”

http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/485723.aspx

>The sad fact is WE ARE the richest country in the world. It’s sickening….  I guess “the owners” think more on the “pragmatic” line of thought…. you know, the one that says why feed them if they’re just going to die by being denied healthcare anyway…?  Or maybe they just feel that if you can’t live on your Social Security check…. well,... then you’ll die.  Then again, possibly the “pragmatic” contend that if you can’t figure out how to live “within your means” (that whole $8.00 hr.) then you’re just a “slacker” and your death is irrelevant.

It has to be one of these, since that is the direction we in which continue to move.

How many have already died?

“The Repubs talk brash, but the Dems talk a smoother game (like, “I feel your pain”, as the Dems bomb people in foreign lands).” - Joseph Anderson

So true, sir. The posters here haggle over the dwindling crumbs and the thin conceptual veneer of US politics. Left right center blah blah blah.

“Obama should not do that bad thing and play with those bad people!” “

“No he has to. It’s reality.”

Everybody’s right. He SHOULD NOT but he HAS TO. So what does that mean? That he has to?

Drop your precious ideologies and think about it while you watch the corporate raiders loot the populace to fight new foreign wars “justified” by more mysteriously well financed terrorist incidents.

Re: Shift
Your comment: “This is a strange thread.  Ego’s and personalities abound in comments, yet the issue of hunger in America relative to choosing Wall Street over Main Street garners not one comment.  I guess the poor are invisible not just to Washington but to ordinary people as well.  Not judging, it just strikes me as unusual.”

I know what you mean.  It certainly isn’t true of many who post here, however it is definitely true of some.  Several post here with the intent to obfuscate and deter the voice of The People.  They attempt to undermine facts by talking “over” others in the hope that it isn’t obviously apparent that they inflate their ego daily by blowing extremely hard in that area of their anatomy where the sun don’t shine.

From my perspective the first step in addressing poverty is to STOP those who create it.  This would be Larry Summers by definition, although he’s not the only one.  Summers has already caused starvation in Lithuania and along with Furman in the Soviet Union as well, via “neo-liberal economic theory”.  These “theories” are really just academic verbiage used to qualify stealing, in your face corruption and worse.  Yet, these are some of the advisors Obama has chosen.

In this aspect, many of the comments on this particular thread were directed to this facet of the issue, not because we don’t care but because we do.

All I am asking from all of the forgoing outline is to give Obama just enough but reasonable length of time to see what he can or cannot accomplish. Thank you

____________________________________________

But in order for Obama to work it out; he has to understand the problem; and make it aware to the people.

There is absolutely nothing Obama can do to—prevent—the coming storm, from forcing the country into a depression.  Obama knows it; as well— as all the crooks in Congress know it. But, if they made it public; they would give some benefit and comfort to the people,  so they could prepare.

And, with him not being open with the American people; he is only benefiting the market insiders; and not the people.

Sodium—With 75% (I think?) of the country expecting (almost) magic, out of President Obama, I fail to see how a few people posting oppositon is “standing in his way”! He is the PE, and can do as he pleases—if he has the nerve.

I am certain that most who are disappointed (or, who never “signed on”) are hoping to hell that PE Obama will surprise us . I, for one, would love to have to say, “Hey, I was wrong, This is ceratinly different than Bush, Clinton et al.” I wouldnt regret it in the least—there is too much at stake…                                                 

I am NOT giong to say “I told you so” top anyone—it actually is just too painful.

D.E.Shaw (Hedge Fund and global financiers)
Lawrence Summers employer in 2006

http://www.jobsamiksha.com/company-it-de-shaw-india.html

D.E. Shaw Group
39th Floor, Tower 45 120 West Forty-Fifth Street New York, NY 10036 USA

http://www.deshaw.com/

I guess it just depends on how much respect you still have for Hedge Funds…

Profile
D.E. Shaw was started by David E. Shaw in 1988, after the Columbia professor (comp sci) left academia (1986) for Morgan Stanley. The privately held investment firm has long had a reputation for being both mysterious and heavily quantitative (although they do have a qualitative analysis practice). Shaw is no longer involved in the day-to-day operations of the firm.

The firm had $34BN in investment capital as of January 2008 and offices in New York, London, Silicon Valley, Houston, Kansas City, San Francisco, Washington D.C., and Hyderabad, India. Lehman Brothers purchased a 20 percent stake in the company in 2007

D.E. shaw is apparently known for some pretty nice Christmas parties; last year’s was at Cipriani’s and featured Blue Man Group. D.E. Shaw had 1,300 employees as of January, 2008

Also, 2007 “Hedge Fund of the Year”!! Yaah!

http://www.deshaw.com/articles/Risk.pdf

Summers helped negotiate a bailout of hedge fund Long-Term Capital Management in 1998.[Overall, the hedge fund’s employees skew heavily Democratic, contributing more than $200,000 to political candidates in the 2008 campaign cycle, according to the center. Only $2,000 of that went to a Republican: Sen. Pat Roberts of Kansas.

The hedge fund also has gotten much more involved in Washington

The lastest from Politico
“... policymaking in recent years, contributing to the Managed Funds Association, the trade group that has led the charge on resisting increased regulation and taxation of hedge funds in Washington….
In 2007, the fund sold a 20 percent stake to Lehman Brothers, which filed for bankruptcy in September
“...$3000 to Barck Obama and $6000 to Hillary Clinton…”, according to the Center for Responsive Politics

Volcker’s record from 1979 to 1987 suggests what this “fresh perspective” will consist of. Unemployment in the United States reached 11.3 percent in 1982, double the level of 1975. The average wage of young workers fell 30 percent by 1987. Infant mortality, family violence, drug addiction and other concomitants of economic hardship soared.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/nov2008/volc-n29.shtml

But the wealthiest 1 percent of the population saw a staggering 50 percent increase in their wealth during that period. That is why the American ruling elite remembers the Volcker years fondly, and why, acting through their servant Obama, the financial aristocracy has summoned the old reactionary for one last service in attacking the working class.

I guess it depends on whether you are part of the ruling class—or a fan of theirs…

Shift—I am not ignoring your posts. The Food Banks in my city are pretty empty…but, here in the Rust Belt, they have been geting that way for years. (In this country we should not even HAVE Food Banks, with all the fricking elites we have!) The poor look to be as disposable to Blue Dog Dems as to neo-con GOP…but, the “Stimulus Pckgs”, “tax rebates”, “health care insurance tax breaks”, etc. never do anything to help the poorest of the poor. And neither “party” seem to care at all…as a former social worker, I wish I knew what more to do..if there is to be change, it doesnt look to be coming from teh govt…

I think we should all make it a point to IGNORE Shift’s posts of 11/30 9:45 A.M., 11/30 2:21 P.M., and 12/1 5:41 A.M.

Oh, that’s right, we all ARE.  Hmmmmmmm.

I guess it is just so much more important to debate
subway cars and Clintonian Old Boys networks.

Don’t even want to think about what truth, real truth, not speculative BS, that Shift is pointing out, trying to help us face up to?

Perhaps a bit more challenging than ranting and raving about what hasn’t happened yet, what might happen, or what it might mean about what is sort of happening, even though we don’t know the reasons behind it all.

Hunger, massive massive hunger, right now.  Here, there and everywhere. 

But apparently not in the stomachs of we who are spending so much time writing posts to poop out our stuffed brains.

What if we shifted gears and really talked seriously, with genuine concern and compassion, sharing ideas for activism and confrontation, concerning this vital issue of life and death for millions?

troublesum:

I am not arguing that the so-called “broken windows” theory does not hold.  Of course it does.  And the graffiti on the subway cars was one of half a dozen or so “broken windows” items that were targeted during that period.

However, your original statement seemed to suggest that it was SOLELY the elimination of subway graffiti that brought down the crime levels.  This is simply not so.  In all cases in which “broken windows” items were targeted, there was a concommitant increased police presence to “accentuate” the point.

One thing cannot be separated from the other in this regard: dealing with “broken windows” plus an increased police presence is what brought crime down; not just the former.

Peace.

Maani
You should read what Gladwell wrote.  While the cars were off the tracks to be cleaned, the guys who were doing the grafetti actually came to the place late at night where the cars were being cleaned and tried to deface them again.  They did not want clean cars on the tracks.  Read what he wrote.  Your perception of what was taking place is distorted by the idea that more police means fewer crimes.  I think he may have a better understanding of what happened.

Obama has said a lot of things, Ed Harges, as politicans do, but what he has done with only marginal exceptions is promote Bushite policies.  He has now assembled an experienced and high powered staff to expand the War on Terrorism, continue neolibealism, and continue the postmodern police state that the Bushites have errected.

The US president is now a military dictator, going to war whenever he chooses, however he chooses, with Congress and the Supreme Court being Potemkin institutions devoid of power.  Just as the Roman Senate remained as an institution devoid of power after the Emperor was institutionalized as a military dictator.  With the modern equivelent of bread and circuses to maintain power.

troublesum:

“Gladwell said the drop in crime happened before more cops were put on the street.  I believe him.”

Gladwell was not even living in NYC at the time; he was in England.  I LIVED through that era, and RODE the subways during that time.  It is the height of ridiculousness for you to believe someone who wasn’t even here over someone who was and SAW WITH HIS OWN EYES exactly what occurred, and in what order.

Peace.

This is a strange thread.  Ego’s and personalities abound in comments, yet the issue of hunger in America relative to choosing Wall Street over Main Street garners not one comment.  I guess the poor are invisible not just to Washington but to ordinary people as well.  Not judging, it just strikes me as unusual.

re: Folktruther, November 30 at 9:55 am:

Well, FT, I think you are right to be disgusted with the direction Obama has signaled by his administration appointments and some of his other actions, even if you and I disagree about whether they add up to a new Bush term. Wall Street, the “defense” industry, and Israel will continue to have immense and poisonous influence on our government.

But there are some important differences. Just to choose one at random, Obama has, I believe, stated that he will try to get rid of the provision of the massively expensive prescription drug “benefit” which forbids the US government to negotiate with drug companies on price. This would hugely reduce the cost of the drug benefit, and it is something which could not have happened under Republican rule. There are many other pretty important and specific changes Obama has espoused which I think, in total, mean that this administration will not be “Bush III”.

On the other hand, if Obama’s “diplomacy” with Iran turns out to be just a formality on the way to the war so devoutly desired by Israel, anything good about Obama’s government will be swallowed up by the resulting catastrophe.

Maani
Gladwell said the drop in crime happened before more cops were put on the street.  I believe him.

Backbencher:

The transcripts of the debates are available online.

As for stump speeches, it is difficult to find specific citations.  I know that I heard both of them refer positively at different times to Bill Clinton’s overall economic legacy.

Peace.

Although I read all of the comments, I personally have difficulty understanding how Washington, knowing of the extensive hunger American’s are experiencing and the foreclosure of millions of homes does not affect them.  How can a government of the people provide 7.6 Trillion Dollars to the wealthy financial interests and absolutely nothing to the people?  It seems to me that all of the debate about political personalities is meaningless under these conditions.  Something is so very wrong with this situation.  I can read between the lines and evidence clearly shows that poor people in America are disposable.  There is a Wall Street and Washington led war on the poor and weak, and that increasingly is the Middle Class too.  It seems to me that NOW is a DO or DIE moment.  Wait any longer to take hard but legal action and we will be consumed.  If we can’t even feed hungry American’s can we have faith that we can do anything?  I don’t think so.

When we get to March or April of next year and the PATRIOT act is still in place you will know exactly what type of leader we have put in control of our country.

Folk—I knew some of this. I knew Summers was a crappy human being—I didnt know he was a political idiot…in any case, Obama certainly isnt one! He is being praised as “bold” by the likes of neo-cons! Just listen to them…they are laughing at progressives. It is true.

I can hear others’ televisions and radio…

Republicasn strategists are thrilled.

Summers is said to be “US’s Yeltsin”—who was placed in office by the Clinton machine—yep, he looks really bad, true. (World Bank, dumping pollution on Third World countries fiasco, measuring a person’s worth as to their earning potentional to determine how long someone shoudl live, backing Yeltsin’s ignoring the will of Parliament, and selling Russia’s resources at fire sale rates, further causing economic collapse—-great!)http://www.thenation.com/blogs/edcut /62701/larry_summers_s_ghosts

IRW—You must also be against the Wall St Bailout, too then—for yourself , as well. I am against both bailouts , as wel as capitalism. But, taking advantage of the working class bailout of wall st while crying over the automakers attempts , is hypocritical.

Sodium—This is not a question of “capability”—it is a question of desire and willingness to go against the grain. I do not see it.Yes, symbolism is there. Not much else.

scottkn:

Not so.  Actually, both Obama and Hillary noted this at various times during the debates, as well as in stump speeches.  You may simply have missed it.

Peace.

troublesum:

“In his book THE TIPPING POINT, Michael Gladwell wrote about the effect on crime which resulted in cleaning up all the subway cars in NY city.  Before they were cleaned up it was becoming unsafe to ride the subway in ny.  After the cleanup, crime virtually stopped on the subway.  They discovered that the criminal type were less likely to commit crimes in an environment which was respected by the people in that environment who cared enough to keep it clean.  The project took several years to complete.  Surely there are other cities in the nation which could benefit from similar projects which would require little planning.”

I’m guessing you don’t live in NYC.  (I do.)  What Gladwell apparently fails to note is that at the same time that the graffiti was being cleaned up, the Transit Police increased its presence manifold, both within the system itself, and outside subway stations.

Thus, to suggest that the elimination of the graffiti by itself caused a drop in crime is absurd; clean cars or dirty, if law enforcement had not also been beefed up during that time, the drop in the crime rate would have been minimal, and perhaps insignificant.

Peace.

Ed Harges- I DO think Obama is Bush 111, that the continuity that Obama is pursuing will lead him to promote Bushite policies.  And this is not because he is stupid, ignorant or doctrinaire, but because he accepts the political counterrevolution in the American power system that the Bushites accomplished.

Bush himself might have been doctinaire and ignorant, but he was by no means stupid, nor was Cheney, Rumsfield, etc.  They successfully subverted the bourgeois Democracy of the US without critics fully undestanding and saying publically what they were doing. 

Just as Rome was transformed from a Republic to an Empire with the institutions intact, drained of power, so the President is now a military dictator, as the Roman Emperor was, with a powerless Congress and Supreme Court retaining a facade of the Democracy.

Obama accepts this reality and is consolidating it.  It’s policies are perverted to support Israeli imperialism as well as US imperialism.  So Dem Insiders and Zionists distort your arguments and set up straw men and attack those.  This is the future of the Dem party, which is increasingly adopting the Gop and Rush Limbargher approach to politial discourse.  They have to, because of the conflict of the Elite conensus and the population consensus.

What is wrong with this picture?  Financial institutions get loans and guarantees for 7.6 Trillion Dollars and food pantries get zero Dollars.  There is no argument here.  The score is wall street 1000% and the hungry, minus 1000%.  The food pantries and the people they serve are in deep trouble, yet to Washington they remain purposefully invisible.  There are no special sessions of Congress to address hunger, and there are no speeches from the President Elect to address hunger.  Fact: Wall Street Wins!!!

ITW writes:

“Stop thinking Obama is stupid, ignorant and doctrinaire like Bush is…”, etc.

For the record, ITW, I voted for Obama, was glad he won, given the alternative, and have never said, nor would ever say, that he’s just as bad as Bush. Once again, you grossly exaggerate my position, then attack the straw man.

It is possible to be deeply dissatisfied with Obama’s administration choices, and deeply outraged at certain other of his actions - such as going to Connecticut to campaign for Lieberman in 2006 - without for one moment thinking that Obama is “Bush III” or whatever.

I’ve had enough of this exchange; you are not addressing your arguments to me, but apparently to someone else by the same name.

Ed Harges, November 29 at 10:45 pm #

Obama opposed the Iraq war before he was in the Senate, but once in the Senate, he voted and orated on all matters concerning the Middle East in such a way that we can be pretty sure that, had he been in Congress when it was time for that fateful war authorization vote in the fall of 2002, he would have voted yea right along with Hillary.
******************************************

Do you form your views and then never change based on the changing situation?  Didn’t you notice that Iran reached out to Obama and he hasn’t slapped away their hand like Bush did, repeatedly.

Stop thinking Obama is stupid, ignorant and doctrinaire like Bush is. There’s no evidence of that.  Idiots here are calling him Bush III. I say “Idiots” because they are clearing ignoring the facts that EVERYTHING about the President-Elect is different than President Colonel Blimp.

MSNBC is reporting that Obama is meeting with “the brass” to “reassure them.”  Apparently his promise to increase military spending and to lay waste to any country which dares to oppose us wasn’t enough to calm their fears that he doesn’t love all things military.  There’s that speech he gave five years ago against the iraq war which scared hell out of them.  They’re starting to worry about where their next war is coming from.

ITW, what got us into Iraq is the same mindset that can so easily drag us to war against Iran. Obama has completely signed onto the alarmist lies about the non-existent nuclear threat from Iran.

So see, it doesn’t matter if he genuinely plans to get us out of Iraq. He, like so many of the creatures of the Washington “consensus”, is always against the last war - the one that everybody now knows was a crock of crap - while he joins in hyping the next “threat”, which is no less of a crock, promoted by the same people who sold us the previous crock.

Obama opposed the Iraq war before he was in the Senate, but once in the Senate, he voted and orated on all matters concerning the Middle East in such a way that we can be pretty sure that, had he been in Congress when it was time for that fateful war authorization vote in the fall of 2002, he would have voted yea right along with Hillary.

Well, congress will be back in session soon, on the agenda will be the next portion t of the great robbery. Ford, Chrysler and of course General Motors will be back hat in hand, hopefully arriving by train this time.
Is Just me or does irony of bailing out corporations that played a major part in the down fall of so many South American country’s seem a bit ironic.
I wonder if after they get their socialized bailouts they will still scream loudly for the free market economy, or just start the torturing and disappearing right away.

Jim C.
Try READING my posts before you attack me.  I am against most deregulation and in favor of most regulation.  The last 8 years have been disastrous and a mis-use of both.

Nor am I in favor of the government neglecting the public good.  I read a few days ago that there’s a town near the Silicon Valley where the houses go for $2million and up, but there are potholes everywhere since the residents prefer to bust up their cars rather than pay the taxes necessary to fix their local infrastructure.  Yeah, I think this is insane.

But I am NOT in favor of government ownership of businesses.  But I am in favor of a new national movement to fix the infrastructure that is already crumbling.  Bridges that collapse and roads, canals and levees that fail are INEXCUSABLE in our nation.  Hospitals that cannot treat the sick, a health care system that puts profit above all, even if it means some people die who could be saved is sickening.

Even in Bushland, Texas, vast windfarms are running ‘way below capacity because they can’t get enough high-tension lines built to carry the clean electricity to the rest of the nation.

And I also believe the government MUST re-regulate pollution controls, strongly and with draconian force if needed.  Nobody should have the right to poison the water, air and ground beneath us.

If you think that makes me a neo-con, you need a new dictionary.

My best appreciations and regards to outraged, KDelphi, Folktruther and Anar-peace and all the people who want REAL CHANGE.
About Cyrena, maani, Inherit the Wind and all the
people who still cling to a floating straw and claim
it is a real boat I say abandon all hope for now.
Under Obama there will be no change in Washington D.C. and business will be as usua and may be worse.
The gang is wearing a very deceptive mask now!!

Inherit the wind , what exactly does this mean ” radical left-wing “progressive” neo-Marxism “? Do you mean ” radical ” like actually trying to get some rules back in the game and perhaps wanting the piles of legalized bribes out along with the wall street hacks that wallow in selfish self interest ? And ” Some of these appointees were/are part of the problem - but they’re taking very different jobs now “. Really , what different jobs are you refering to ? Summers has been named an ” economic advisor ” , may I ask how that is different from his old job ? You remember , the one where he was essentually an ” economic advisor ” to Clinton , where he helped Grahm and Rubin push through disasterous ” economic reform ” or Obamas shiney new treasury secretary who just happens to be a protege of Rubin and holds views so close you couldn’t see light between them . If feeling that this ” new bunch ” stinks to high heaven and praying that he would actually put some people on his economic team that were’nt steeped in vile , filthy , failed , fascist , plutocratic economic snake oil makes me a ” Neo Marxist radical , then sign me up , that’s where I want to be . I do know where I don’t want to be . Back in the conservative , corporate run ,trickle down cesspool that these conservative Ayn Rand , Arthur Laffer , Milton Friedman ( Larry Summers ) types would drag us into . Yep , if that makes me a Marxist pinko commie sign me up , I want off this conservative train wreck .

KDelphi, Summers is a political idiot.  He managed to enrange the Harvard faculty, no radical enclave, to expell him in a few years.  After getting the prestigious names in the Black Studies caususes to leave, he attributed the low number of women as scientists to their genetic inferiority.  Hell, even Rush Limbargher would know better.

But the mass media keeps saying how smart he is, over and over, so this neoliberal Zionist Rubin-clone is assumed to possess talents that no one has every seen him display.  He was one of the deregulators that got the US into its credible financial mess.  Only a Vichy Democrat or a Zionist would defend him.

Folktruther is right—-Anar-peace has some good points,as did Outraged, troublesum, etc. and all the Obama defense league can do is call people names, tell them how stupid they are. Its all a stunt, for lack of any substantive arguments. Nader was right about some things too. To not admit it, and just keep circling like a tag team, is to miss everyones’ points on purpose.

This isnt funny at all. People like Summers are very frightening. He doesnt give a damn about anyone but himself.

Anybody read any of the links here? There is some really good stuff. It doesnt fit the duopoly, sorry, I forgot.

The life of our country—and much of the world—depends on progressives keeping their promises that, if Obama was elected, he would be “influenced ” to change”. Waiting is useless.Criticizing the team a PE chooses is called free speech. I can just imagine if, before the election , Id said “I’m afraid Obama wil apopint HRC, Summers, Gates…”?? Obama supporters would have protested to the rooftops. What bullshit this is.

The Obama defense will become very ernest, cruel, lots of cussing, and, then, we’ll settle back into the US duopoly’s bullshit..

Asking for “
change” that was promised is not “revolutionary”, although we could use a little among these kiss ass Democratic loyalists!@

BTW—Summers is a horribel person. I dont care if he is smart or not. We have yet to have a truly “stupid” persident. Hasnt done us much good has it?

If this was anyone but Obama making these appointments, (even HRC, who some now defend!)—-just imagine..the original argument concerning Obama’s appointments was the article—not some individual Nader of third party supporter.

How ridiculous!

Obama does move the historical discourse forward.  Instead of opposing Bush Gops with the similar Dems as the alternative, it is now possible to oppose Obama with a possible genuine left alternative, whatever it turns out to be.  This would involve and ideological split between the pro-Dem leaders and anti-Dem leaders.  As illustrated by TD truthers.

What this would entail ideologically and organizationally has yet to be worked out.  But what is becoming obvious that true progressives will be sleazed by Dem progressives in the same way that Gop and media sleazes smear Dems.  Truthers like Cyrena will be the Ann Coulter of the Dems, or the Rush Libargher.  Progressives have to understand this and not let it bother them.

In the civil rights movement, young African-American girls were warned and strengthed in conscious raising sessions agaisnt the racist smears they could expect in progressive operations.