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Cold War Hawks Nesting With Obama

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Posted on Nov 11, 2008
Georgians for Obama
AP photo / Shakh Aivazov

Opposition supporters in the nation of Georgia hold a poster of U.S. President-elect Barack Obama, reading “America We Believe In.” The protest rally occurred in the capital, Tbilisi, on Nov. 7.

By Robert Scheer

So, Vladimir Putin was right: It was Georgia that started the war with Russia, and once again it was President Bush who got caught in a lie. As The New York Times reported last week, “Newly available accounts by independent military observers of the beginning of the war between Georgia and Russia this summer call into question the long-standing Georgian assertion that it was acting defensively against separatist and Russian aggression.”

The Bush White House knew—but kept from the American public—facts concerning provocation by Georgia’s U.S.-trained forces, which killed civilians in the capital of South Ossetia before Russian troops crossed the border. The provocation has also been documented in a BBC investigative report and by a growing consensus of other reliable sources.

No surprise, but it is a reminder of just how eager some are for a new Cold War and how indifferent they are to the truth of the matter. The career hawks are influential in both political parties, as was evidenced by the knee-jerk response of both presidential candidates, who claimed that the Russians had launched a totally unprovoked attack.

Sen. John McCain, whose top foreign policy adviser had been a paid lobbyist for Georgia, was most eager to confront the Russians, while Sen. Barack Obama was a bit more cautious. But as recently as in his Oct. 29 infomercial, Obama promised to “curb Russian aggression,” which hardly suggests the change we need from the unilateral belligerence of the Bush foreign policy.

The result of that policy has been increased estrangement from the one country whose cooperation is totally indispensable in the effort to control the spread of nuclear weapons, given that Russia possesses roughly half of the world’s nuclear arsenal and the ready means to build more nuclear arms. Yet instead of putting up a common front against nuclear proliferation, and even before the Georgia fracas, the Bush administration insisted on placing missiles on Russia’s borders in a deal-breaker with Putin, whom President George W. Bush had previously embraced.

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Improved relations with Russia are critical to the change toward a more peaceful world that Obama has promised, but it is disquieting in the extreme that some of his closest advisers are inveterate hawks with a history of needlessly provoking tension with the Russians during the Cold War days. Key among them is Zbigniew Brzezinski, who, as President Jimmy Carter’s national security adviser, engineered the U.S. involvement on the side of Islamic fanatics in Afghanistan.

Of course, the official story line at the time was that the Soviets had invaded Afghanistan to support their ally, which happened to be the governing power in Kabul, against the fanatic mujahedeen rebels, whom President Ronald Reagan would later officially embrace as “freedom fighters.” Those freedom fighters came to be united by our CIA with the likes of Osama bin Laden and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the architect of the 9/11 attacks.

It was decades later that the truth came out that the Soviets invaded only after being deliberately provoked by U.S. hawks. One of them was Robert Gates, who worked for Brzezinski in the Carter administration and who is currently the secretary of defense; President-elect Obama is now reported to be considering retaining Gates in that position. A 1996 press release promoting Gates’ memoir promised the revelation of “Carter’s never-before-revealed covert support to Afghan mujahedeen—six months before the Soviets invaded.”

The Gates revelation prompted an interviewer for the French publication, Le Nouvel Observateur, to ask Brzezinski in a 1998 interview whether he regretted “having given arms and advice to future terrorists,” and Brzezinski replied: “Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? ... What is most important to the history of the world? … Some stirred-up Muslims or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the Cold War?”

That was three years before those “stirred-up Muslims” attacked us on 9/11, but Brzezinski has not lost his nerve for escalating wars. While advising Obama, he gave interviews hyping the Russian “invasion” of Georgia as the occasion for a new global conflict, telling journalist Nathan Gardels that Putin’s action “was ominously similar to Stalin’s and Hitler’s in the late 1930s.”

I know, Obama is not yet in office. I voted for him with enthusiasm in part because he does seem to have transcended the preoccupations of the Cold War. But as a buyer, I have to beware of those unrepentant Democratic hawks now hovering.

Update: Click here to read Robert Scheer’s August 12 column, “Georgia War a Neocon Election Ploy?”

Robert Scheer is author of a new book, “The Pornography of Power: How Defense Hawks Hijacked 9/11 and Weakened America.”

Click here to check out Robert Scheer’s book,
“The Great American Stickup: How Reagan Republicans and Clinton Democrats Enriched Wall Street While Mugging Main Street.”


Keep up with Robert Scheer’s latest columns, interviews, tour dates and more at www.truthdig.com/robert_scheer.



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By Folktruther, November 25, 2008 at 12:03 pm Link to this comment

Wasn’t the extension of military service put over quietly?  Was it SUCCESSFULLY resisted in the courts?  The US power sysstem is in its END TIMES degeneration, and the only effective political resource the population has is its own mobilization and resistence.  More than than in past.  The population has almost no representation in the power process: not in the electoral process, in the legal system, the mass media, or in the economy.

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By Anarcissie, November 22, 2008 at 9:24 pm Link to this comment

Folktruther—it is my belief that a draft for whatever purpose will require an act of Congress.  It is certain to be resisted in the courts as well as politically; it cannot be put over quietly.  At least, I don’t think it can.

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By Folktruther, November 22, 2008 at 1:24 pm Link to this comment

I don’t know why you imply that a military draft must be enacted by Congress.  Where, not incidentially, the Dem Rangel has been introducing legislation for years.  The interpretation and extention of tours of milarty persons was done entirely with out Congressional legislation.  By increasing the benifits of service and the penalties of non-service to high school students, especially in a national Emergency of the War on Terrorism…

In any case Congress could create a voluntary organization, like the Peace Corp, and simply extend its restrictions after a bit.  Something like this could be done right now, given the dire economic conditions and low ideological awareness of the population.  It may be politic for Obiden to wait a bit but I expect some such program to be implemented.  The Dems tradtionally advocate it.

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By Anarcissie, November 20, 2008 at 9:48 am Link to this comment

Folktruther:
‘It isn’t idle talk if both Dem and Gop leaders agree, and they are both funded by Zionists who have a draft in Israel.  And Obama is appointing military Zionists to key positions. ...’

It’s idle talk until they do something, which will require enactment by Congress.  The bringing of a bill to reinstate any kind of draft would be fresh red meat for the Republicans and the Democratic Left.  I don’t think Mr. O and his friends are going to risk it until they’ve got some of their other problems under control.  If it occurs at all I would predict it as part of the traditional hubris-atê-nemesis of the second term.

Of course great leaders, “Zionist” or not, would love to have the masses coerced to do their will.  I am sure jerks like Emanuel and Summers are certain they know better how the lower orders should spend their time than the lower orders do. But that isn’t the way the political structure of the United States works at the moment.

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By Folktruther, November 18, 2008 at 10:08 am Link to this comment

It isn’t idle talk if both Dem and Gop leaders agree, and they are both funded by Zionists who have a draft in Israel.  And Obama is appointing military Zionists to key positions.

The media keeps it quiet precisely to avoid stirring up the young.  And it will not be a military draft.  Heaven forfend! It will be, initially, a voluntary peace force that promotes goodwill, humanity, etc that will provide some financial incentive for a few months service.  Or deprives you of one if you don’t serve.  And then it will be strengthened in the appropriate military direction.

The power stucture knows that a draft stirs up opposition better than anyone else.  Obama is a very intelligent clever political leader.  The American people are very backward and do not sufficiently distrust the American powerful.  It can be implemented in ways that diffuse opposition, just as the Dems diffused demos against the Iraqi war.

The American people are not yet commintted to opposition of the American power structure.  Until they are a draft is a real danger.

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By Anarcissie, November 17, 2008 at 3:52 pm Link to this comment

Folktruther—I am watching the draft business with interest.  Thus far I don’t see anything but idle talk.  However, idle talk does occasionally turn into real evil.  The sooner we detect anything concrete, the sooner we can organize resistance.

Obama has stirred up a lot of idealistic youth, and if he now starts to draft them into some sort of Federal forced-labor mill with military overtones, or into the military itself, I think there is going to be hell to pay—interesting hell, perhaps.  It would be certainly be quite a recruiting opportunity for radicals of both the Right and the Left.  It would probably also guarantee a one-term presidency.

I am hoping, though, that Mr. O is too clever to get himself into this kind of political morass.

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By Folktruther, November 17, 2008 at 10:51 am Link to this comment

No,no, Anarcissie, not just rhetoric.  On Sept 11 both McCain and Obama came out explicitly for a draft. It was largely blacked out in the media and softened and disguised to include civilian functions.  Such a draft exists in Israel and Zionists want to intoduce it here to continue the War against Muslims. 

I know you are not much interested in Middle Eastern affairs, and they would not be very interesting or important to Americans in themselves, but they vitally affect both foreign and domestic American policy.  And Zionist sleaze and censorship are important in preventing the American population from forming a left people values, since they are so influential in the media.

Sepharad’s and Iherit’s sleaze that I hate Jews, am a white supremist, advocate massacre, don’t care about Arabs, etc are more or less typcial Zionist examples, and displays Zionist lack of respect for the reality-based truth.  They attack all anti-Zionists in this way that they can’t censor, both Jews and non-Jews.  And this will get worse as the American people understand that Zionism has hijacked American policy.

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By jaja, November 16, 2008 at 6:53 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

obama is not a sabre-rattler and he is not a puppet-so he must know that the American people will fully support a sensible, careful investigation of all the facts in these very sensitive areas of foreign policy. there is no need to resort to puffery to assure the paranoid hawks in his midst.

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By Anarcissie, November 16, 2008 at 8:23 am Link to this comment

The New Yorker’s profile of Emanuel can be found at http://www.newyorker.com/talk/2008/11/17/081117ta_talk_widdicombe .

My impression of Obama’s proposal was that, like a good deal of what campaigning politicians say, it was low on specifics and mostly designed to produce warm feelings in a certain part of the electorate without deeply offending anyone else.  The American Constitution explicitly prohibits “involuntary servitude”; in 1917 the Supreme Court had to stand on its head to find the military draft Constitutional, and impressing people for non-military duties which could be performed better by volunteers and people hired for the purpose would be a considerable reach even for today’s right-wing court.  I think and hope the proposal is unlikely to be carried forward, but even as a mere fantasy it says a lot about the people who entertain it.

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By Inherit The Wind, November 16, 2008 at 7:28 am Link to this comment

Sepharad, November 15 at 6:28 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Inherit—Your grandfather, a Menshavik, was sent to Siberia at 17. Did anyone ever hear from him again, by letter or did he survive the experience?
*************************************************

Well, yeah, of course he did-otherwise he wouldn’t have been my grandfather. He was only 17 when he was sent away—by the Tsar, not Stalin. He didn’t meet my grandmother until he got to the US.

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It’s pretty horrifying the way revolutions cannibalize their own, ... Lenin murdered. And then there was Trotsky.
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I don’t know if Stalin murdered Lenin, though he was a murderer by that time. 

Of course, Stalin had Trotsky murdered as a message. And, don’t forget, Stalin was VIRULENT hater of Jews. Trotsky, of course, was born Lev Bronstein, a Jew. In the 1950’s as one of his last purges, Stalin went after Jewish doctors.

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Hate to admit it but I’m also one of the idiots who didn’t know Rahm Emanuel was not an Israeli citizen—in fact I didn’t know much about him at all, except that he was a Chicago pol tight with Pelosi et al, ....

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I find all these comments at TD about Emmanuel being an Israeli citizen and Lieberman being an Israeli citizen or dual citizens as insultingly stupid slanders.  Both insulting and incredibly stupid…typical of white supremacists who’ll say ANYTHING, no matter how absurd.

Under our Constitution, Art. 1 sec. 2:
“No person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the age of twenty-five years, and been seven years a citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an inhabitant of that State in which he shall be chosen.”

Art. 1 Sec.3:
“No person shall be a Senator who shall not have attained to the age of thirty years, and been nine years a citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an inhabitant of that State for which he shall be chosen.”

It’s simply not possible and not legal.

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Which brings me to “pleasant” as an insult.
...
Husband decided Folktruther is probably just a garden-variety white supremacist who projects a lot on other people—possibly big corp/bigoil/bigmoney agent. Or dupe. My delusion on the other hand is that there’s still a way to salvage a decent life for the Jews and Arabs of the region—things are pretty bleak right now.

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I’m not worried about that—“Pleasant”.  Folk tries to use disparaging descriptions as a debate tactic.  For those capable of critical thinking, it’s just irrelevant noise.  Frankly, I’ve been called far, far worse—by Folk and others.

Folk’s problem is two-fold: 1) he HATES Jews and thinks they should all get out of Israel.  Where? He neither knows nor cares.  So what if they die?  Who cares? Just like who cares that now FIVE MILLION have died in on-going Congo/Zaire civil/tribal wars over the diamond, gold and other mines (and the wealth, power, mansions, guns, cars, drugs, alcohol, and unlimited sex that comes with it)?

2) Folk has no interest in the real, everyday, Main Street, “Sherra Main” Palestinian Arabs.  Their daily lives and problems mean nothing to him.  See, if THEIR problems can be solved by a fair and just 2-state solution w/ Israel, Folk would STILL oppose it.  As a self-described Socialist, Folk doesn’t realize that Hamas and Hezbollah are RELIGIOUS and are as intolerant as the Likud.  But the current Socialist/Marxist left has, since the days of Vanessa Redgrave, romantically viewed the Palestinians as “freedom fighters” and the Israelis as “oppressors”.  And NOTHING, not even a negotiated fair peace, can change his or their minds.

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By Sepharad, November 16, 2008 at 12:26 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Anaracissie, I understand your surprise at my lack of knowledge re Feinstein. There are lots of pro/antiZionist theorists out there I’ve probably never heard of. My focus the last 10 years is narrow and concrete: what is actually going on now with Palestinians and Jews and what aspects of that I or my family and friends there can affect—mostly that amounts to getting support for Peace Now work from American Jews, as well as backing for economic projects participated in by Israeli Arabs and Jews that have potential to stabilize Palestinian incomes in parts of the West Bank where and when that is possible. Have been trying to cut back time I spend on this because book research and writing has taken second place for too long. Besides I’m interested in other things, and am trying to fit that into the space that opened up after Hillary lost the primary before something else fills it up.  More reading, more music, much more horseback exploring. I hate politics as much as I hate war.

Do you happen to remember which New Yorker issue that profile of Emmmanuel was in? Ours are piling up unread again. I thought the national service was Obama’s idea by way of JFK’s peace corps in this country. (It’s ingrained in Israelis from its socialist/kibbutz days; pendulum there has swung too far toward capitalism and some are now pushing back. IDF is required of all citizens, no exceptions. the theory is that upperclass can’t buy themselves or children out of fighting so there had better be a good reason to start shooting. (Exception is that Israeli Arabs are not required to join IDF but may if they want to. Exception was made during the war for independence, when Ben Gurion said he would understand if Arabs didn’t want to take up weapons against their cousins. PMs are out of office quickly if they screw up a war. There is also still a notion of communal good, the religious tikkun olam mitzvah (duty; improve the world). Paradoxically Israelis and many other Jews are opinionated and anarchistic which is why the Knesset sometimes shocks observers who are used to well-behaved Parliaments and decourous Congresses. What they see is a bunch of people yelling and pounding the table, Jew and Arab, religious and secular, often all talking at once.

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By Anarcissie, November 15, 2008 at 10:16 pm Link to this comment

The word thing I have heard about Rahm Emanuel is that he was infatuated with Hegel.  That was in the recent New Yorker profile.  The second worst thing is his fondness for drafting people into some sort of national service—that is, he believes he, Rahm Emanuel, knows better what people should do with their time than they do.  The abusiveness and threats of violence are familiar concomitants of such types: ruling-class operatives with a strong belief in their personal and class superiority, their right to rule.  The funny thing is that so many of them consider themselves to be liberals.

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By Anarcissie, November 15, 2008 at 10:09 pm Link to this comment

Sepharad—I don’t care whether you read Finkelstein or not.  I have little specific interest in what we might call Middle Eastern affairs, and I have no advice or judgements to issue to the various struggling parties; and I have not read a word of Finkelstein’s, nor do I plan to.  I was just very surprised that you, who do evidence knowledge and concern with such matters, were unaware of Finkelstein and the controversies surrounding him, since his work appears to touch directly on your interests, and his academic fate has been enough of a scandal or cause celebre to come to my attention.

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By Sepharad, November 15, 2008 at 7:28 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Inherit—Your grandfather, a Menshavik, was sent to Siberia at 17. Did anyone ever hear from him again, by letter or did he survive the experience? It’s pretty horrifying the way revolutions cannibalize their own, downright tragic when they finally toss up someone as bad as if not worse than what they were revolting against, as in Stalin. My mother firmly believed that Stalin had Lenin murdered. And then there was Trotsky ... I suppose we’re lucky the American Revolution more or less took hold. For awhile anyway. Our grandparents took great pains to hide the Holocaust from us, including yanking us out of Hebrew school and insisting that we wear our mezuzahs inside our shirts if at all. I actually knew a handful of refugee kids in grade school, but they didn’t talk about anything at all. Very quiet. All of my grandmother’s family disappeared. She was so sad for years, which made my grandfather furious, and he interrupted more than one family gathering shouting that any Jew still in Europe after ‘38 just reinforced Darwin’s thinking. That always made everyone so mad at him that it distracted my grandmother (which is probably why he did it in the first place). My parents went along with hiding the massacres, but Mom had a big map of Palestine/Israel in the kitchen and had different colored thumbtacks for the whereabouts of family there, and when the U.N. vote went through there were thumbtacks going up and coming down everywhere. Was too young to get it exactly but she was following the progress of the war as best she could through phonecalls from her cousins, mostly in the Haifa area.

Hate to admit it but I’m also one of the idiots who didn’t know Rahm Emanuel was not an Israeli citizen—in fact I didn’t know much about him at all, except that he was a Chicago pol tight with Pelosi et al, until sometime during the primaries there was an interview with him and he said that he was a good friend of both Hillary and Obama and consequently was hiding under his desk. Then Obama named him chief of staff and all this stuff started. The other day he apologized to the president of the Arab American League for a very very politically incorrect and in truth offensive remark his father made to a Ma’ariv reporter. The other thing I’ve learned from stories in the NYTimes is that he’s beyond volatile, swears at people a lot who screw up etc.

Which brings me to “pleasant” as an insult. Actually coming from someone who despises you, it’s like being patted on the head. And I would never be knowingly pleasant to Folktruther, based on his capacity to misunderstand or possibly to understand and twist stuff. He still thinks you and I are only concerned with Israeli power, not the actual people, Jew & Arab, and that level of self-deception on his part is either bone stupid or evil. Shenonymous was right about not responding to it. There’s no there there, just an empty nihilistic black hole of a philosophy.

The whole history of the Arabs and the Germans, the Mufti of Jerusalem with the Gestapo, the way he tried to scare Palestinians out with the excuse that they’d be in danger while the Arab armies were massacring the Jews just so he could grab their land while they were gone, all the muddling and mixing and rivalry between Arabs and sects while the Brits and French played pick-up-sticks with the Middle East—he doesn’t know how that affected anything and doesn’t really care. Arab history and the difficulties they have between one another’s sects combined with serial occupations is a big part of the whole equation, and it’s pointless to argue with someone who only wants to know what he already knows.

Husband decided Folktruther is probably just a garden-variety white supremacist who projects a lot on other people—possibly big corp/bigoil/bigmoney agent. Or dupe. My delusion on the other hand is that there’s still a way to salvage a decent life for the Jews and Arabs of the region—things are pretty bleak right now.

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By Sepharad, November 15, 2008 at 5:40 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Anarcissie—I don’t recall Peters denying existence of Palestinians. That’s absurd: she went to Lebanon in ‘74 to aid Palestinian refugees in Lebanon. She did have provide data on changing of demographic patterns in the countryside during the period just before Ottomans were defeated and 1938, when more Arabs than had previously lived there migrated from as far away as Iraq as the land incresed in value because Jewish farmers improved its arability of land, with drip irrigation,  draining swamps and using its bracksh water to irrigate land.

Since the second fall of Jerusalem ended the Jewish rule of Israel, when Romans conquered and renamed the nation Palestine, it has never once been ruled by its actual residents, Jewish or Palestinian Arabs, until modern Israel became a nation in 1948. (The British gave most of it—roughly 80%—to a Hashemite king for wartime services rendered, what we now call Jordan.)

I haven’t heard of or read “Beyond Chutzpah”—last five-six years mostly having been reading history related to Islamic Spain/Reconquista/Inquisition/advent of Conquistadors, where there is a cause-and-effect thread but researching it takes time. However, I will look for “BC” if you and Folktruther will read several books by Fouad Ajami, the last several years’ UN-sponsored whitepapers written by secular Arabs on why their societies are failing, and some comparative histories on Israel, some jointly written by Arab and Jew, some by Arab historian Albert Hourani and Bernard Lewis—there are so many of them. For more on Arab culture there’s ‘Ibn Khaldun’s “The Maquidda” (medieval period) as well as Raphael Patai’s “The Arab Mind.”

Didn’t know Finkelstein had problems at DePauw University (not notoriously a hotbed of Zionist activity) or getting into Israel. It must be as annoying to him as some of the Brits’ organizations boycotting of Israeli academics and other products are to other open minds. If as you say he objects to too much emphasis on the Holocaust, I’d agree with that. Holocaust portrays Jews as susceptible, easy victims and I much prefer the Israeli insistence on “Never Again.” Way too many people weep for Anne Frank but condemn Jews who fight back.

There’s great distrust and fear on both sides, or else bigots like Netanyahu and Hamas would never have a chance of popular support. Conferences such as those at Durban are so one-sided, their conclusions so patently false, that watching the world continue to swallow such dreck only adds to the fortress mentality in Israel. And dopey people far from the scene who continue giving a pass to Hamas and Hezbollah’s aggression before, during and after truces only encourage the worst of the Arab killers.

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By Folktruther, November 15, 2008 at 2:24 pm Link to this comment

Oh, I think we understand each other alright, Cann4ing, but they identify with Israeli power and I adentify with the Israeli and Palestinian people.  And the conflict of these interests is becoming increasinly irreconciable historically.

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By Anarcissie, November 15, 2008 at 12:51 pm Link to this comment

I don’t mind antagonism, as long as it’s intelligent antagonism.  I get enough stupid antagonism every day just trying to get through New York City traffic.

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By cann4ing, November 15, 2008 at 11:52 am Link to this comment

The level of invective between pro and anti-Zionist posters is disappointing and counter-productive.  The evidence of the brutality of Israel’s 41 year, apartheid like occupation is exceedingly well documented by Prof. Finkelstein in “Beyond Chutzpah.”  But so has the idiocy of suicide bombers.

It would be far more helpful for people to take a step back from the name calling and think carefully about how a just and lasting peace can be accomplished.  This, of course, requires some level of honest self-examination by those supporting the state of Israel—in this case ITW & Sepharad would do well to actually take the time to read “Beyond Chutzpah”—something I am relatively certain neither has done.  It also entails some level of political maturity on the part of others like Arnarcissie & Folktruther who must recognize that a less antagonistic form of discourse would better serve mutual understanding.

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By Anarcissie, November 15, 2008 at 11:36 am Link to this comment

Folktruther—I don’t think you’re a Nazi, and I was very sorry to see that kind of rhetoric being employed here.  Unfortunately, that sort of thing is all too common; one might as well pass over it.  I was most disturbed to see that the notorious Finkelstein had suddenly become an unperson.  That is pretty odd.

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By Folktruther, November 15, 2008 at 11:12 am Link to this comment

Anarcissie makes the point that people have to be able to reason logically for themselves.  Even when the reasoning leads to truths that conflict with the mainstream American truth.  In this case you have to choose between truth and Zionism.

Inherit maintains that I don’t give any facts that support Zionist oppression.  Do you think that is true?

They both claim that I am really blaming the Jews like Hitler did to support capitalism.  Shenonymous also claims that I support Nazism and Hitler.  Do you think this is true?

I think they are choosing Zionism over truth.  As the Israeli power system does in refusing Finkestein entrance.  Or Aipac does in censoring anti-Zionist truths by both Jews and non-Jews in the mainstream media.

The matter is important because Zionists are one of the chief supporters of America’s war imperialism.  And it is allied to the neoliberalism in both the Gop and Dem party.  You cannot oppose American military imperialism without opposing Zionism.  And therefore without opposing, on this restricted front, Sepharad and Inherit.

But you have to distinguish between Jewish and Christian support for Zionism and the Jewish population, many of whom support it.  That is, between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism.  Zionists deliberately conflate the two to legitimate a defense of Zionist war and oppression.

Aipac, for example, FEATURED Rev Hagee at their annual conference who argued that Hitler was doing God’s work in the Holocaust to get Jews to Palestine.
That is, Zionists favor Jewish POWER over Jewish PEOPLE.  This favoring power over people is common in politics and is a great historical tragedy of earthpeople.  But in this case it is obvious.  Aipac allies with the most anti-Semitic wing of American ideology in order to support the power of Zionism.

And since anti-Semtism has been interwoven with Christian ideology historically, it will require a historical period to disintangle it.  But we can begin here and now, and must, if we are to effectively oppose American imperialism.

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By Anarcissie, November 15, 2008 at 10:06 am Link to this comment

’... Any Jew who wants Israel to thrive must LOGICALLY (my edit) also want the Palestinians to thrive. ...’

The case of Norman Finkelstein is rather interesting, at least to my non-specialist point of view.  Most recently, Finkelstein was denied entry to Israel at Ben-Gurion airport because, apparently, the Israeli government doesn’t like his opinions.  Before that, the excitement was that DePauw university denied him tenure after the faculty and a tenure committee had voted in favor of it, again apparently because of the controversial nature of his opinions.  He is most famous for books refuting Peters’s contention that there are no real Palestinians, and that the Holocaust, or rather, the remembrance of it, has become something of a self-serving public-relations and litigation industry—an observation with which none other than Raoul Hilberg agreed.  For more on the controversies surrounding Finkelstein, see the Wikipedia article and, of course, Google his name.

I mention Finkelstein because the way in which he has been dealt with by the Israeli government and its fans seems to preclude any policy or activity which would cause the Palestinians to thrive as such.  There are a few steps in there I’m leaving out, but since logic has been mentioned, I’m sure the interested reader can make them.  I can spell them out if necessary, however.

Or, you can just rewrite my name in a humorous manner.

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By Inherit The Wind, November 15, 2008 at 6:20 am Link to this comment

Sephard:
My Berkeley born, bred and educated husband—more intellectual than me and one of those wild radical lefties but loves me anyway—suggested to me, after reading your posts, that the Nazis scapegoated Jews to protect the German industrialists and enrich Nazis while screwing the German middle and working classes royally, despite Hitler’s constant cries of concern for those good Germans.
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This is consistent with the German industrialists’ presumption that they could control Hitler, and to their shock and dismay, they discovered they couldn’t.

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Husband suggests that you are scapegoating Jews/Zionists to protect Bush and all the other Rockefeller Morgan Stanley etc etc capitalists and cronies from an aroused proletariat, and points out that real revolutionaries have never had problems with Jews or Zionists for that matter, from Lenin to Castro and Che.
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Let’s not forget that Prescott Bush had dealings with the Nazis, Walt Disney was anti-Semitic, and Henry Ford was SO virulent a Jew-hater he published a propaganda newspaper to promote his twisted views.  Even the “hero” Charles Lindbergh was a hater of Jews for no good reason.

**********************************
Large proportion of revolutionaries in 19th and 20th centuries have, in fact, been Jews.
**********************************

Yeah, like Karl Marx and Leo Trotsky, not to mention my grandfather, a Menshevik sent to Siberia by the Tsar at age 17, to a camp for political prisoners.  The first “revolutionary” to embody anti-semitism was, of course, the Communist Tsar, Joseph Stalin.

**********************************
And maybe, in fact, Inherit the Wind is onto something in referring to you as “Volkvehrer”. (Have never thought to ask before, but do you even know what “Zionism” is? Or that Zionists come in many varieties and argue strenuously?
********************************************

This reminds us that many fanatical Arab organization have ties with neo-nazis and white supremacists due to making common cause: destruction of Jews.  Many Arab leaders were willing allies to the Nazis for this reason, most notably the Mufti of Jerusalem.

********************************************
Whether you do or not, just consider this: Any Jew who wants Israel to thrive must LOGICALLY (my edit) also want the Palestinians to thrive. And since the other Arabs—except for the Jordanians—aren’t going to do anything useful but quite the opposite, the Israelis and Palestinians are going to have to help each other. That has been obvious to me, and mine, all our lives.
****************************

Sephared, this is common sense. But common sense isn’t very common.  Look at all the idiots who believe:

Obama is an Arab and Moslem and Communist.
Rahm Emmanuel was born in Israel, is an Israeli citizen, served in the IDF and hates all Arabs.

Every one of these “facts” are believed with religious fervor by idiots despite the REAL fact that every one of them is VERIFIABLY false.

****************************
I don’t care what you call me, except, please, not “pleasant.”
****************************

I don’t mind being called “pleasant”.  If that’s an insult it’s about the mildest I’ve ever been called!  Besides, I am (usually) pleasant, even funny and I don’t embarrass my teenager TOO much.

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By Sepharad, November 14, 2008 at 11:40 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Inherit—I guess you’re right. Facts mean nothing to Folktruther. But one more try, then I’ll just ignore him.

Folktruther—I dislike and distrust Brzhezinski, and I don’t really care if Obama keeps Gates or not but further-left liberals than me have said that earlier he kept us out of wars. I know how to spell Finkelstein because I know how to spell—and it’s a common Jewish name. I do know an Ann Finkel, but sorry, never heard of Norman Finkelstein. Must not be up enough on my modern Zionists but am well acquainted with the history of same. (So was George Elliot—the British novelist who wrote, among many other great books such as “Middlemarch”, “Daniel Deronda”—perhaps the earliest well-known novel concerning Jews returning to Palestine, based on her conversations with a rabbi from Palestine in 1874, visiting London to prepare groups of English Jews to make the trip and settle. This was well before the official Herzl movement.) I don’t like war, I hope we can leave Iraq as soon as possible without further damage to that country or our own, and I certainly do not want our son-in-law heading back to Iraq or anywhere else to fight. I detest racists of any kind, and am for sure more genuinely concerned about improving life for Palestinians than you are—and probably have done more toward that end. Also have done more, for that matter, in protecting civil rights of Moslems in the U.S. Talk, Folktruther, is cheap and unreliable. Noam Chomsky has a different point of view regarding many things, though there are particulars he’s written on that I agree with—Israel obviously not being one of them. People like you are useful in that it keeps me from relaxing and being complacent, reminding me why there has to be an Israel to go back to the next time all the Folktruthers go crazy and look for some easy group to blame. 

My Berkeley born, bred and educated husband—more intellectual than me and one of those wild radical lefties but loves me anyway—suggested to me, after reading your posts, that the Nazis scapegoated Jews to protect the German industrialists and enrich Nazis while screwing the German middle and working classes royally, despite Hitler’s constant cries of concern for those good Germans. Husband suggests that you are scapegoating Jews/Zionists to protect Bush and all the other Rockefeller Morgan Stanley etc etc capitalists and cronies from an aroused proletariat, and points out that real revolutionaries have never had problems with Jews or Zionists for that matter, from Lenin to Castro and Che. Large proportion of revolutionaries in 19th and 20th centuries have, in fact, been Jews. And maybe, in fact, Inherit the Wind is onto something in referring to you as “Volkvehrer”. (Have never thought to ask before, but do you even know what “Zionism” is? Or that Zionists come in many varieties and argue strenuously? Whether you do or not, just consider this: Any Jew who wants Israel to thrive must also want the Palestinians to thrive. And since the other Arabs—except for the Jordanians—aren’t going to do anything useful but quite the opposite, the Israelis and Palestinians are going to have to help each other. That has been obvious to me, and mine, all our lives.

I don’t care what you call me, except, please, not “pleasant.”

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By Inherit The Wind, November 14, 2008 at 10:13 pm Link to this comment

Folktruther, November 14 at 8:49 pm #

Nah, I wouldn’t wade into a libelious assualt on you Imherit, you ignorant lout.  You aren’t dangerous.  You have the same Zionist appreciation of apartheid Israel as my relatives, but appear to be sincerely disturbed by the racist implications of it.  Your notion of anti-Semitism is too silly to combat seriously.  You appear to think anyone anti-Semitic who threatens to raise your taxes.

Sepharad, now, that’s something else.  She appears to be a pleasant, talented person who identifies with evil.  And that evil of imperialist aggression is leading the US historically to a thermonuclear war.  If its a question between Zionism and truth, or Zionism and preventing war, or Zionism and common decency, Sepharad will choose Zionism.

You, on the other hand… well you might too but you might not.  You are a sincere, muddleheaded and quirky commenter who doesn’t think so good politically.  Well,you have plenty of company.  But Sepharad thinks good and follows the straight Israeli line.  She is part of what James Petras called the Zionest Power Configuration.

You are just a Zionist ding-a-ling.  But loveable withall, since your wife loves you, and possibly your kids as well.  And, hell, I don’t mind you much either.
********************************

This must be true.  There are no facts to support it, no proof, no evidence. Not even an indication to point that way. But it must be true.  Why?

Volksvehrer says so.

BTW, Zogby be just posted that Rahm Emmanuel is not:
1) Israeli-born
2) An Israeli or dual citizen.
3) a veteran of serving in the IDF
4) Anti-Arab (he has a history of working with Arab-American groups)
5) appointed to promote a Zionist agenda but to get bills through Congress.

Let us not forget that Zogby is an Arab-American sympathetic to Arab causes.  Yet HE defends Emmanuel (and Obama) from all the absurd accusations made against him.

But all these bad things about Rahm Emmanuel MUST be true despite the truth that FACTS and EVIDENCE as presented by an ARAB-American say otherwise.

Sow why are these bad things true?

Volksvehrer says so.

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By Folktruther, November 14, 2008 at 9:49 pm Link to this comment

Nah, I wouldn’t wade into a libelious assualt on you Imherit, you ignorant lout.  You aren’t dangerous.  You have the same Zionist appreciation of apartheid Israel as my relatives, but appear to be sincerely disturbed by the racist implications of it.  Your notion of anti-Semitism is too silly to combat seriously.  You appear to think anyone anti-Semitic who threatens to raise your taxes.

Sepharad, now, that’s something else.  She appears to be a pleasant, talented person who identifies with evil.  And that evil of imperialist aggression is leading the US historically to a thermonuclear war.  If its a question between Zionism and truth, or Zionism and preventing war, or Zionism and common decency, Sepharad will choose Zionism.

You, on the other hand… well you might too but you might not.  You are a sincere, muddleheaded and quirky commenter who doesn’t think so good politically.  Well,you have plenty of company.  But Sepharad thinks good and follows the straight Israeli line.  She is part of what James Petras called the Zionest Power Configuration. 

You are just a Zionist ding-a-ling.  But loveable withall, since your wife loves you, and possibly your kids as well.  And, hell, I don’t mind you much either.

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By cann4ing, November 14, 2008 at 9:00 pm Link to this comment

Finkelstein vs. Dershowitz—classic mismatch.  Dershowitz wouldn’t know the truth if it bit him on the behind.

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By Inherit The Wind, November 14, 2008 at 8:57 pm Link to this comment

PatrickHenry, November 14 at 3:47 pm #

Finkelstein vs Dershowitz

Now theres a Pay Per view.
********************************

I’d pay a nickel to see it.  Maybe even a dime.  But a quarter? No way!

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By PatrickHenry, November 14, 2008 at 4:47 pm Link to this comment

Finkelstein vs Dershowitz

Now theres a Pay Per view.

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By Inherit The Wind, November 14, 2008 at 2:49 pm Link to this comment

Now Volksvehrer will launch into a libelous assault on me and fill it with all sorts of absurd contentions. He’ll have you convinced I’ve got horns on my head and a forked tail. At least he’ll convince himself.

Not one of his contentions will be demonstrable, and certainly not provable.  But that doesn’t matter to
Volksvehrer.  What ever Volksvehrer fantasizes is instantly gospel truth, no matter how absurd and ridiculous. Why?

Volksvehrer says so.

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By Inherit The Wind, November 14, 2008 at 2:43 pm Link to this comment

Sepharad, You are a rotten, evil Likudist Zionist Pig who wants to dominate the world!

How do I know?  Volksvehrer says so.
All the facts you present mean nothing.  Volksvehrer says so.
All the posts you’ve made on your position mean nothing. Volksvehrer says so.
All the subtle arguments you’ve made mean nothing. Volksvehrer says so.
All the things you know about yourself mean nothing.
Volksvehrer says so.
That there’s not ONE SHRED OF EVIDENCE to support Volksvehrer’s bizarre contentions about you means nothing. Volksvehrer says so.

Why are you all these horrible things? Volksvehrer says so.

How does Volksvehrer know that this is “The Truth”?  You disagreed with him.  Disagreeing with Volksvehrer (especially on facts, which he doesn’t have) means you are an evil Likudist Zionist employed by the Mossad with the directive to destroy the world for the advancement of Zionism! How do I know? Volksvehrer says so.

Volksvehrer believes in freedom of thought and liberty.  Volksvehrer says so.  But anyone who DARES challenge Volksvehrer immediately loses their freedom of thought, speech and liberty… How do I know?
Volksvehrer says so.

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By Anarcissie, November 14, 2008 at 8:09 am Link to this comment

... Sepharad’s contention that she has never heard of Finkelstein ....

Astonishing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Finkelstein

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By dihey, November 14, 2008 at 4:51 am Link to this comment

President-elect Obama’s current policies for the countries of Georgia and Ukraine are stupid and incompetent flirting with future disaster. Cyrena, where are you when we badly need your advice?

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By Folktruther, November 14, 2008 at 1:25 am Link to this comment

Sepharad has consistenly and professionally supported Zionism’s war plans for the US. Her support for Obama keeping Gates as Defense Sec., on the absurd grounds that the ‘far left’ advocates it, is part of the current pro-war Zionist agenda.

Porter at CommonDreams currently has a featured article maintaining that there is a swell of neocon support for Obama keeping Gates to prevent him from withdrawing combat troops from Iraq.  Gates opposes withdrawing combat troops in 16 months. Obama is currently considering keeping Gates.

As Scheer has pointed out, Gates worked for Brzezinski in the Carter administration and Brzezinski is currently an Obama foreign policy adviser.  This is a further indication of Scheer’s contention that there is a grouping of war mongers presssuring Obama to continue Bush’s wars.  Sepharad, in my opinion, is part of this grouping.

Sepharad’s contention that she has never heard of Finkelstein,whose name she spells correctly despite my usual sloppy typos, is interesting, given that he has been involved in a number of well publicized incidents involving Zionism (and is himself a soft Zionist.)  And her contention that mumerous scholars, many of them Zionist, praised Peters book is quite true.  Until Finkelstein exposed it.  And Chomsky does not call a book a fraud without reason, or suggest that an intelligence agency wrote it.

The book was exposed in a London literary magazine, since Zionist censorship prevented reports on the fraud in this country, as Chomsky details.  After that happened it was not reviewed in the NEW YORK REVIEW OF BOOKS.  But it’s still in print, according to Sepharad.  11 printings!  My, they do keep at it.

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By Sepharad, November 14, 2008 at 1:11 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Brusays—Your interesting and, I think, true comment re how it wasn’t WWII but FDR’s programs—including one that might come in handy these days, putting people back to work on infrastructure the country needs, and then paying them for it. Many of us grew up in the ‘50s and early ‘60. I’m old enough to remember that my folks, particularly my father, thought FDR could walk on water if he put his mind to it. (I meant to write earlier on it, but had to first defend myself against Folktruther’s allegation that I’m a dangerous Zionist agent in league with, I think he said, the neoliberals who support Obama. Not sure he knows I didn’t support Obama, wanted Hillary for President and Edwards’ health bill. Decided then I’d vote for whoever picked the best vice president—or not at all. Palin as the Republican vp nominee decided my vote.) There were no real populists in the election, which would have been my first choice. Couldn’t not vote; have two young granddaughters who have to make lives for themselves in this world.

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By JimBob, November 13, 2008 at 11:55 pm Link to this comment

I may be wrong, but it seems that Zbigniew Brzezinski, either by increasing age or hard-won wisdom, is also in opposition to stupid wars.

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By Sepharad, November 13, 2008 at 10:58 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

oldog—Exceptionally fine post on Russia. You nailed it all, chapter and verse.

Folktruther, I’m a professional writer, longtime opponent of Likud-style and fundamentalist religious style Zionism because I believe it’s essential for Israel to survive but also the Palestinians abandoned by their brothers. Think the current Arab leaders are doing better by their people than the Israeli leaders are doing for Jews, Arabs, Ethiopians, Russians and all the rest of their citizens? If so you haven’t beeen to any of those places. My family in Israel and the U.S. have always supported Peace Now and joint economic programs with Palestinians in the West Bank. Can’t keep repeating myself; just look at my Nov. 13 2:27a.m. comment re what I do for Honest Reporting, which is hardly censorship. BBC, Reuters, Agence France Presse and other well-financed media outlets are certainly capable of refusing to retract what they stand by but if presented with a mistake acknowledge it. I’ve worked as a journalist in this country, a senior research associate for FoI Center throughout the long effort to get that legislation past, some work with Nader’s Press Project, volunteer voter registration worker freedom rider, parttime ACLU activist, and for 15 years editor and, with husband, publisher of a California history magazine. On my own time I also do research and supply what I can to people in this country who are opposed to Likud/Shas policies. Also working on my own book re Islamic Spain and the Reconquista, and the relationship between Reconquista and Spanish Inquisition to the development of the conquistador. And that is taking up more and more of my time.

I’ve never heard of Norman Finkelstein, but have looked at the sources Peters cited in her book, mainly British and Ottoman archive material which is not exactly opinion, just dry lengthy boring statistics and documents. I’m no supporter of the British empire, but must admit they always took good notes. The Peters book is in its 11th printing. Is it conceivable that only one person,out of all the people who’ve read the book, including scholars of every stripe, that only he detects falsity? I also recommended other books including many by Arabs, Christians and Jews, sometimes working jointly that are out there for anyone who wants to learn. A closed mind is both ugly and dangeous, Folktruther. People such as yourself turn the world into garbage, creating fear in people, literally driving many into the arms of the Bibi Netanyahs and the worst neocons.

Now you’re saying I’m advocating a military draft?
What I said was that all Jewish citizens are required to serve two years in with IDF. I don’t know if Rahm Emanuel is a citizen of Israel or not, but he wouldn’t be the first non-Israeli Jew to volunteer. The state of Israel is the only place in the world any Jew can be certain will not turn on him. For this Israelis will fight not to the last man, but to the last man, woman and child.

I also said that I thought Obama’s idea for requiring a period of national service of all citizens—either military or community work or peace corps—was a good idea. How many liberals have you heard condemning Bush because he engages in military adventures without asking anyone to sacrifice anything except other peoples’ children? It takes more to build a community than paying taxes? 

Funny. I never supported Obama till Hillary lost, and I always liked Edwards’ health plan better. I’ve never thought Obama was the liberal panacea his supporters believed. Are you upset that I voted for him instead of McCain? But he’s the President we’ve got, and he might not be so bad.

Folktruther, you could get into an argument about a Zionist conspiracy with a piece of driftwood. You’re way off-base; suggest you pay closer attention to TAO Walker’s posts.

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By sam brown, November 13, 2008 at 9:29 pm Link to this comment

“Why do authors, commentators, journalists, politicians, pundits and joe the plumber keep referring to Bin Laden as the “terrorist” who attacked us on 9/11? 

They all (as do all foreign leaders) know that it was an inside job. 

This chronic referral to “those who attacked us on 9/11” makes those doing the referring as complicit in the cover-up as the entire congress, senate, cia, fbi, nsa and mainstream media and now Obama who will not hold the “nuremberg trials” and subsequent executions that the world deserves.”

David Morrison, Good news for you if you missed it; seems with several others you have, including Mr Scheer, seemingly.

QUOTE:

November 10, 2008

Osama bin Laden is planning an attack against the United States that will “outdo by far” September 11, 2001, an Arab newspaper in London has reported.

And, a former senior Yemeni al-Qaeda operative said, the terrorist organisation has entered a “positive phase”, reinforcing specific training camps around the world that will lead the next “wave of action” against the West.

The warning, on the front page of an Arabic newspaper published in London, Al-Quds Al-Arabi - and reported widely in the major Italian papers - quotes a person described as being “very close to al-Qaeda” in Yemen.

The paper is edited by Abdel al-Bari Atwan, who is said to have been the last journalist to interview bin Laden, in 1996.

Bin Laden is himself closely following preparations for an attack against the US and aims to “change the face of world politics and economics”, the report says.

[They must be damned busy down in Langley VA too eh? Where’s Cheney currently?]

BIN LADEN ‘PLANS NEW ATTACK ON US’ - November 10, 2008
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/bin-laden-plans-new-attack-on-us/2008/11/10/1226165435339.html

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By Folktruther, November 13, 2008 at 7:48 pm Link to this comment

Truthdig gently demurred when I stated that Scheer did not supply the facts about US aggression in Georgia.  And they were right.  In a previous article Scheer did conceive the war as a neocon ploy to help win the election.  I apologize for my error.  For this one particular case out of a whole sequence of cases extending into the future where I expect to see a vigorous attack on Obiden for causing a new Cold War. If in fact he does so.

I expect that someone is hold a loaded wallet to Scheer’s head and he has to pick his spots.  In this important case he did, and should be given credit for it.

Sepharad is a total other case, however, a talented proponent of the murderous ideology of Likud Zionism which Obama appears to be identifying with in his apppontments.

The War on Terrorism was implemented not only by the money of the Zionist ruling class, but by professionals like Sepharad who help censsor the media.  The mass murder, torture, arbitrary imprisonment, racial bigotry, class impovrishment was largely imported into the US from arpatheid Israel, and promoted by truth agents like Sepharad.

Now she is justifiy a military draft like one they have in Israel,justifying Emmanuel’s serving in the Israel army, justifying Gates’ promotion of increasing and updating nueclear weapons, and putting first strike weapons in Poland to—heh, heh, defend against Iran attacking Europe with their non-existent nuclear weapons.

The books she advocates are on the level of Joan Peters’  FROM TIME IMMJEMORIAL. Chomsky, a childhood bi-national Zionist who worked on a Kibbutz when he was young states about it in UNDERSTANDING POWER p. 244: 

“It was a big scholar-looking book with lots of footnotes,  which proported to show that the Palestinians were all recent immigrants [i.e. to the Jewish settled areas of Palistine…]... It got hundreds of rave reviews….Here was a book that proved that there were really no Palestinians!... If Israel kicked them out there was no moral issue….

“Well, one graduate student at Princton, a guy named Norman Finkestein, started reading though the book….It turned out the whole thing was a hoax, it was completely faked; it was probably put together by some intelligence agency…”

Well, they finally got Finklestein fired and blacklisted from academia, and refused admission to Israel despite his being a Jew and his parents being put in a Nazi concentration camp.  The Israeli power structure, of which Sepharad is a part, is completely vicious and have no compunctions whatever about murder, torture, war, or anything else.

And they have partially hijacked American foreign and domestic policy.  The money of the Zionist ruling class, and the operatives, public officials, public intellectuala and other truth agents are motivated by the Jewish power underlying the Jewish religion.  They are fanatics whose religious preconceptions are implemented politically.  And they are dominant in both American political parties.

Zionist militarism is allied with neoliberalism in a very dangerous combination, dangerous to the people of the world and dangerous to the American people.  Any progressive who does not oppose Zionism is supporting the political counterrevolution that the Bushites acheived in the American power system.  Which Obama seems to be continuing.

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By avatar singh, November 13, 2008 at 7:11 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

it is very important to realize and understand the trickery of the english race in manipulating usa to wage wars on behalf of britain which gains most from Iraq war and any war that usa imposes on the third world and even on Europe.

Here are some of the writings done years ago to give a global picture of what is REALLY happening in the world and by WHOSE agency.
              The modus operandi of Britain is to make country and regions unstable and install british stooge with explicit instruction to bring the money -looted ones -to Britain from where it is not going to go anywhere else.
Some oligarch Jews (like thee criminal U.K.-based fugitive oligarch Boris Berezovsky)
were the stooge of British in Russia and they brought so many ill gotten money to uk. So did the Kuwaitis-who brought 4 billions of pounds within a week of first Iraq war problem in august 1990 -so has continued the massive loot of the rest of the world by the English .race through this money protection racket . It is money protection racket in the sense that those eliete’s money is protected only when it is made to be lodged in British London banks. The witness, who appeared on the Rossiya channel with his face hidden and was referred to as Pyotr, accused 61-year-old Berezovsky of killing Alexander Litvinenko because the former security officer knew how the exiled tycoon had obtained political asylum in Britain in 2003. This thief boris berezosvky is a terrorist as well who calls for violet end to Putin-the president who is one of the most loved of his countrymen compared to any in the world.
          As someone said “We live in a world where criminals are good guys and patriots are villains: where Berezovsky is a liberal “human rights” activist and Putin is a moral monster.” that putin who is one of the most popular leader of any in the world.
              say even if Russia destroys usa then if Britain or rather england is allowed to exist then the english parasitic dog race   will ,by very parasitic nature, will try to disrupt Russia or other countries’ existence. therefore instead of attacking usa or poland it is best policy of Russia to attrack and destroy to the whole of england which must be evaporated to a rubble.
                IN ‘88 when Dalai lama, at the height of Tibetan disturbances, visited west, the then british prime minister refused to meet Him. Later on with the demise of Russia and usefulness of China gone and with manipulation to keep power in Hong Kong somehow intact, the same british media and government ,like dog, started barking at China. It is interesting that amnesty international selectively targets those very countries( as it did china after cold war) who are out of favour (because they would not be a british stooge) of the british media and govt. This is not surprising as amnesty international is the creation of british govt, and british media. england with the most appalling record of human rights in last 200 years of her evil rule, needed some organisation to keep the others from charging england off her past and current evil practices. st of the world. Amnesty international must be ignored and an independent human watchdog (which england will simply ignore) created.  One purpose of amnesty international is to create an atmosphere for hatred towards the would be victims of british exploitation so that a victim could be blamed to have deserved the consequences. That is why ,now amnesty international sometimes threatens China, sometimes India and etc.
             
M

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By Jonas South, November 13, 2008 at 6:05 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

David Morrison: ‘.....and now Obama who will not hold the “nuremberg trials”......’ on 9/11.

The Fraustian deal was proposed to Obama: Obama gets the critical support of AIPAC and is allowed to be president, and thereby gains the means to address his life-long obsession with black racial inequality, and the rest of us continue to function as essentially colonial subjects of a foreign power.

As the reality of Obama’s selection of his chief-of-staff and others sink in, we see that his historic election is valuable mainly for its symbolism. Black social injustices will be addressed, and some of the largess will trickle up to the rest of us, but current beneficiaries of the Bush years will still be the chief beneficiaries of the Obama years.

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By david morrison, November 13, 2008 at 4:54 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Why do authors, commentators, journalists, politicians, pundits and joe the plumber keep referring to Bin Laden as the “terrorist” who attacked us on 9/11?  They all (as do all foreign leaders) know that it was an inside job.  This chronic referral to “those who attacked us on 9/11” makes those doing the referring as complicit in the cover-up as the entire congress, senate, cia, fbi, nsa and mainstream media and now Obama who will not hold the “nuremberg trials” and subsequent executions that the world deserves.

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By Sepharad, November 13, 2008 at 4:25 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

diamond, You’re right about the delay between election and office assumption (especially since I’m afraid the current administration will try to get as much bad stuff done as possible in the interim). Rumor and sour grapes are frustrating, and Obama seems organized enough to get going—in fact I think that’s exactly what he’s doing except that he hasn’t announced cabinet members yet. I don’t know why we feel it necessary to have this interim period.

You’re correct in that IDF service was expected of Rahm Emanuel as it is of every Jewish citizen. Recently, a younger friend of mine said she and her husband were selling their successful teahouse and moving, with their three young kids, back to Israel. I asked her why, as things aren’t exactly looking bright there these days, and she said that in this country her children were growing up without a sense of national service or community responsibility. I suggested she stick around, as I thought I heard or read that Obama, like JFK, was going to require some sort of national service—either military, or community organizing, or peace corps abroad. My niece did the peace corps thing for three years in Benin, Africa, in a smallish village where she taught English and basic medic-level healthcare. She loved it, despite having to be swathed head to toe in conservative but colorful covering in 104-degree weather. (Said she coped with that by taking three cold showers every day, minimum.) She says she learned more from the people than she taught. I haven’t heard any follow-up on that Obama idea, but hope it was for real.

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By PatrickHenry, November 13, 2008 at 3:37 pm Link to this comment

The cold war hawks are just pandering for their corporate sponsors.

Obama needs to displace alot of funding from the MIC to a self sustainable energy program for the U.S.

He knows it.

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By Sepharad, November 13, 2008 at 3:27 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Folktruther, no such thing as “gentle” cold war hawk. I prefer Russians neutral if not friendly, though Putin may drag them back to the Gulag era. Our problem: not provoking the Russians with missile bases in Poland—equivalent to Russian missiles in Cuba. Does Obama have JFK’s brains and negotiating ability? Venezuela’s Chavez has invited the Russian fleet into his port. The U.S. should consider this before going ahead with missile bases in Poland plus in context of Iranians’ new longer-range missile that could hit Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Israel, Persian Gulf targets, some places in Europe—anyone they happen to be angry with—and so far Iran shows no signs of slowing down uraniun enrichment. Do we NEED bases in Poland to counter potential Iranian nuclear strikes? Probably so, but can’t while Russians are so worried.

As for Gates, many far-leftists do like his restraint, but my question is “restrained” compared to what alternative person? Seems unwise, but is Gates an exception?  Your ideas are solicited, if you have any.

FYI, “Honest Reporting”, for which I do (volunteer)responses, challenges various media on inaccurate news reports about Israel, not on “pro-Palestinian” information. Most media contacted, including the BBC, Reuters, Agence Presse France have responded positively. APF prominently apologized after a French court ruled that the famous photo of a child hiding in his father’s arms and subsequently killed died because from an IDF bullet was deliberately misleading. Blatant and provable lies must be publicized or people retreat into “why read anything?” if media is biased, and can’t be relied on for truth rather than propaganda. I’ve done similar work for the Columbia Journalism Review, Freedom of Information Center, as investigative reporter for several newspapers, and work for the ACLU. Is accuracy about Israel the only accuracy you oppose?

I don’t belong to AIPAC or ADL, do belong to the American Jewish Committee. I’m not ashamed of being a secular Zionist, not ashamed of my family’s ongoing work in Peace Now, not ashamed of Israelis’ unwillingness to commit suicide. Main newspapers in Israel: Ha’aretz (reflects Western liberal thinking), Ma’ariv (more centrist), Jerusalem Post (p.r. for Westerners as much as Israelis). The best publication to present issues from differing pespectives side by side is the 2xmonthly magazine Jerusalem Reports. The easiest book re Ottoman thru Israel statehood discussion of Palestinian and Israeli rights, wrongs and issues is “From Time Immemorial” written by Joan Peters, (after working in Lebanon in ‘74 with Palestinian refugees). Also accessible: David Fromkin’s “The Peace to End All Peace” (Euro jousting in great game of oil and empire) and many many more + reports written by secular Arabs under UN re origins of societal problems of that region. Of course there is much much more, hundreds of books on my shelves alone. If you don’t want to read, you will never, never understand the great displacements of both Arabs and Jews in the Moslem world. If you approached the subject in depth as Shenonymous did, you’d find the situation in 19th-century to pre-WWII Palestine in terms of demographics and who migrated where and when are accurate as I’ve described them many times on Truthdig threads. The only solution: two states side by sidek followed by a Middle Eastern Union similar to the EU. Once the Jews, Arabs and Turks get together they could clean everyone elses’s clocks commercially. Everyone in the region needs a decent life economically and intellectually as well as emotionally. I’ll be in East Jerusalem Nov. 20-30. Whether you like it or not, there are close ties between many Jews and many Arabs based on reality and mutual respect. My greatest fear is that people such as yourself and Bibi Netanyahu will not settle for less than a bloodbath. And ignorance of the underlying reality, which you seem to deliberately cultivate, is no excuse.

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By SteveL, November 13, 2008 at 3:02 pm Link to this comment

Like all countries that tried to conquer the world we will soon run out of the money to do it.  It is not a matter of “If” but a matter of how hard we want to crash.

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By prole, November 13, 2008 at 2:27 pm Link to this comment

This essay is perhaps better read backwards, from bottom to top. It illustrates once again the fundamental faudulence of the Obama phenomenon and the easy way in which even people who should know better are willingly taken in. How anyone with any serious leftist leanings could vote for a closet neo-con at all, even a black one like Obama - let alone with “enthusiasm”, defies credulity. By putting the last paragraph in this lament first, it makes more sense as an expression of regret, providing but yet another reason for questioning that vote. The subtle irony of that campaign mantra of “hope” takes on new meaning. Those who were gullible enough to hope that St.Barack was their new political messiah, have nothing left now but to continue to hope that he is, despite all the evidence to the contrary, Once in office, he can pretty much do whatever he wants to do, just like Bush did. It’s not exactly clear what a “buyer” is in this context, but if it means someone who made the additional mistake of contributing money to Obama"s mercenary campaign then the time to beware was before supporting such a
prostituted politicial hack as Obama Copacabana, not after. The money is spent and your opinion is no longer needed. Those with all the power will do as they choose, the naive little idealists served their purpose during the campaign love-in and now they can step back and make way for the hovering hawks to land and get on with the serious business of running the world

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By BruSays, November 13, 2008 at 2:18 pm Link to this comment

Yep….the economic stats bear it out. With the exception of 1958, it was one of the most progressive decades in our history.

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By Folktruther, November 13, 2008 at 1:53 pm Link to this comment

The 1950’s representated one of the most progressive decades in US history, Brusays?  You appear to be on a roll.  Just lie down for a while and you’ll feel better after a bit.

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By BruSays, November 13, 2008 at 1:38 pm Link to this comment

Don’t want to beat a dead horse here, but sorry guys, I’m not discounting the economic impact a war effort can have on a depressed economy. I’m not discounting that war production can impact on production and employment.

But the fundamental assertion that “it was World War II that pulled us out of the Depression” is fundamentally untrue. It was FDR’s broad measures that put us back to work. Our war materiel contributions to Europe’s war effort from 1939 (after Germany invaded Poland) until our own entry in 1941 was miniscule compared to the our massive increases in automobile, steel, highway construction, and consumer goods - as well as WPA efforts including hydroelectric projects, National Park projects, post offices, government buildings, schools…. etc….all well underway before Hitler moved into Poland. Again, the data isn’t secret.

However, a good argument can be made that the war effort brought huge strides to labor union power, African-American employment and women’s power in the workplace. It also brought us together as never before.

Would these same labor advances have taken place without the war? Hard to say but they probably occured sooner than later because of wartime labor shortages. However, the 1950s represents one of the most progressive decades in U.S. history and most economists believe it would have been even more productive without the Korean War.

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By diamond, November 13, 2008 at 12:39 pm Link to this comment

VirginiaFromVirginia, my father went into Hiroshima with the occupation forces. Does that make me responsible for the dropping of the atomic bomb? People make much of the fact that Rahm Emmanuel served in the Israeli army but perhaps it was expected. As it was expected of John McCain, with a military grandfather and father, that he would pursue a career in the military. I think it’s strange that Obama is not already in the white house, turning the ship around. It’s destructive to have all this speculation running wild before Obama has even been sworn in. So much of it is rumour and/or sour grapes that it’s essentially unreliable.

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By Folktruther, November 13, 2008 at 9:29 am Link to this comment

One of the cold war hawks, in gentle guise, is Sepharad, the Aipac Zionist who works for an organization attacking pro-Palestinian comment in the media.  She is currently suggesting that “leftists” want to retain Gates as Sec of Defense.

This is the usual Zionist deceit that supports imperialist aggression.  Gates has promugated a Doctrine updating and increasing nuclear weapons.  He is currently in a Baltic country fostering support for increasing Nato to the Ukraine and other neighboring countries.  He is attempting to put in some defense project in Estonia, a former Soviet republic. 

He supports putting a first strike capacity in Poland and Checho, under the absurd pretext that it defends Europe against nuclear strikes by Iran, who has no nuclear weapons.  Obama has already appointed Zionist warmongers to the VP and chief of staff, and if he retains Gates, he can continue Bushite policies, and a new Cold War, without a break in transition.

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By sam brown, November 13, 2008 at 9:27 am Link to this comment

BruSays,

“World War II did NOT get us out of the Depression. That’s a common myth pushed on us by post-war Republicans who wanted to roll back the significant changes accomplished by FDR in the 1930s.”

There’s an interesting bit on FDR in this clip, and it’s perhaps best to watch it with the sound turned off:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Da1TUeuLIaE

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By gilly, November 13, 2008 at 9:12 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

As soon as Georgia invaded Sth Ossetia I switched to various channels for the news. Russia Today gave impressive coverage. France today and the BBC also. There was no doubt in the coverage that the Georgian President deliberately set out to invade and kill the people of Sth Ossetia. Imagine my surprise then when the mainstream Western media got hold of the story saying it was Russia that was invading Georgia. I have never read such distorted rubbish.
Isn’t it interesting that almost the day after the invasion, Poland (who had been dragging their heels over the shield) rapidly signed up for it.
The whole thing stinks and I am sure the devil incarnate (Cheney) is somewhere in the muck. Russia has enormous reserves of gas and oil. Seems to me it would be far better for both countries to get along to the benefit of both. I am sick and tired of the warmongers, cheats and profiteers that have been around for the last 8 years. The whole world is destablised and now we have another 2 months before the removal of the worst President in memory and ludicrously before any changes can be made. How sad is that. The world is rudderless. Its a case of “fiddling whilst Rome is burning”.
And get rid of that goon Poulson he is out of his depth and sinking fast.We need a huge number of lifeboats like yesterday otherwise the whole planet will spin into oblivion.

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By JMTAC, November 13, 2008 at 7:33 am Link to this comment

Well said, Purple Girl.  I couldn’t agree with you more.  I knew once I read about Cheney lurking around Georgia that the US had a hand in that conflict in some way shape or form.  I’m sure he was just foaming at the mouth of the possibility to get his hands on that oil. Corrupt bastard.
And yes, in order to clear up this mess Obama must engage those who fucked it up. He is an intelligent man.  He and his team have a tremendous task at hand.  He’s going to need every minute of his 4 to 8 years cleaning this up. Try to have some faith.

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By oldog, November 13, 2008 at 4:54 am Link to this comment

This should be the thrust of our foreign policy with Russia. Instead of standing on the borderline trading insults and rattling our sabers, we should be praising Russia for its bold move in recognizing the independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia. We should be engaging the Bear as partners in a changing world. We should be subtle, enmeshing Russia in cooperative ventures that make our mutual good in the best interests of both countries. We will NEVER succeed in bullying our way to peace with Russia, and the alternative really is MAD - Mutually Assured Destruction.

As a member of the “Impeach Bush/Cheney NOW” movement, I won’t bother to even comment on the dyslexic priorities of the past administration. I would like to observe that the shared space missions with the Russians are an important link that could keep us from degenerating into another cold war. The current economic crisis certainly keeps us from making any radically expensive changes to many of our national programs. Remember, Georgian president Mikheil Saakashvili at the very least showed poor judgment in provoking Russia by invading South Ossetia while Russian peace keepers were there. More likely he judged the West’s knee-jerk reaction to any Russian military actions with a fine sense of what’s good for Mikheil Saakashvili’s political career. On a practical level, the Russian’s have shown an admiral strategic restraint which the US has sadly lacked in its conflicts in Afghanistan, and Iraq. Compare our massive attacks in those countries (which we still occupy after 5-7 years) to Russia’s quickly withdrawn punitive raid into Georgia. Who’s the bully now?


Russia is a crusty old bear who should be treated with respect. Like most powerful countries, it tends to overwhelm its weaker neighbors. I applaud actions by NATO and the USA to contain Russia’s expansionist policies. However, our condemnations might carry some moral weight if we had our own house in order. This last decade, the USA (dragging many of its NATO allies along with it) invaded three countries at will (Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan) pursuing a criminal gang that attacked us on 9/11. Not only has this course of action killed thousands of people, destroyed our international reputation, broken treaties, conventions and constitutional laws, but it has been ludicrously ineffective, as the criminals are still at large. Russia’s actions, by contrast, have been almost benevolent.

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By Sepharad, November 13, 2008 at 2:54 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Brehezinski is certifiably sinister, but Gates has shown some restraint in the past and recent past that might serve Obama well. Some of my more left-radical friends have even said they hope O. keeps Gates on as Secretary of Defense, or throws him back as CIA head or NSA. I don’t know; just a thought repeated in farther-left quarters.

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By Anthony Look, November 12, 2008 at 11:00 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Lets us not forget (among many GOP liars) the other two prominent liars during the campaign; that being McCain and Palin. There feeble attempt at a cold war sentiment resurgence was front and center for a brief period during the campaign. There should be a serious investigation into whether this was a campaign tactic.

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By Michael Hammerschlag, November 12, 2008 at 10:11 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I may have been first to suggest this- that the neocons encouraged Georgia to attack S. Osettia to create a new bogeyman to help McCain, because terrorism wasn’t working any more to smear Obama.. in an article on Scoop:

http://Hammernews.com:
GEORGIA’S FOLLY & the RAGE OF THE BEAR new- Kiev:  Saakashvili’s reckless invasion of S. Ossetia was bound to provoke a virulent Russian reaction, but it has disappeared in the news as the world’s condemnation falls entirely on Russia;  McCain’s foreign policy adviser is a paid lobbyist for Georgia- did he or Administration encourage this to create a new bugaboo enemy to intimidate voters, since terrorism wasn’t working anymore?; Georgia isn’t Budapest or Prague, but the Russians can’t resist grinding their face in the dirt as an object lesson for Ukraine, Estonia, or Poland- Scoop, OpedNews Aug 19
http://hammernews.com/georgia.htm target=

Then only a few days later, Putin picked up the same refrain
http://hammernews.blogspot.com/2008/10/obamas-last-debate-2nd-debate-nashvile.html
As we started another chapter in Kiev, Putin, of all people, ratified our perspicacious vision on Georgia’s 2 invasions 10 days after I ran it (GEORGIA’S FOLLY)- that maybe the neocons engineered the first Georgian S. Osettian incursion, for which there is some evidence. He could be reading my articles, since I criticized him in almost every one (inc. IHT), and this controlling strongman doesn’t allow any criticism to go unmonitored.

Michael Hammerschlag
Kiev

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By Anarcissie, November 12, 2008 at 8:59 pm Link to this comment

BruSays—You’re forgetting, or at least omitting, that during the late 1930s, economic activity overseas picked up a great deal as Germany, Britain and other countries prepared for war, or, in the case of Italy, actually started them.  I think as well there was a psychological effect—trooping primates like chimpanzees and humans are excited and even exhilarated by the prospect of fighting, even if someone else is going to have the actual fun.

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By Folktruther, November 12, 2008 at 8:56 pm Link to this comment

BruSays:  You must be joking.  Of course consumer consumption was did not increase during WW2, it was artifically kept down by rationing and lack of consumer goods.  Everything was directed toward the war effort.

But it put everyone back to work, including millions of soldiers and women recruited to work in the war factories.  Money was saved and spent after the war was over.  Since there was a goodly amount of inflation, it was worth less then.

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By VirginiaFromVirginia, November 12, 2008 at 8:03 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“...Obama’s first two crucial appointments represent a denial of the wishes of his supporters on the principal issues on which they voted. The vice-president-elect, Joe Biden, is a proud warmaker and Zionist. Rahm Emanuel, who is to be the all-important White House chief of staff, is a fervent “neoliberal” devoted to the doctrine that led to the present economic collapse and impoverishment of millions. He is also an “Israel-first” Zionist who served in the Israeli army and opposes meaningful justice for the Palestinians – an injustice that is at the root of Muslim people’s loathing of the United States and the spawning of jihadism…” John Pilger

Rahm Emanuel’s father is a TERRORIST who was a member of Irgun, a TERRORIST organization.  I voted for Obama (I live in a swing state.) but I fear the direction Obama is taking us in.

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By Truth for Ossetia, November 12, 2008 at 8:01 pm Link to this comment

President-elect Barack Obama has a unique opportunity to reverse the disastrous course of support for Saakashvili’s regime. Even the U.S. State Department now concedes that the Georgian government was wrong to attack South Ossetia, yet this has not resulted in any change in policy.

In addition to New York Times story noted above, we have seen new revelations about Saakashvili’s sneak attack on Tskhinvali, the BBC’s report on Georgian abuses, Human Rights Watch’s disclosure of Georgian use of cluster bombs, and our own growing compilation of eyewitness accounts of Georgian abuses before, during, and after the five-day war.

So why is the American taxpayer still being forced to pay billions to a brutal, reckless autocrat who ordered an indiscriminate attack on civilians?

Sen. Hillary Clinton has already laid the groundwork for a change in direction through her bill S.3567. This bill, which is currently referred to the Foreign Affairs Committee, seeks to examine the causes of the conflict and make recommendations about U.S. policy. The U.S. Senate and the incoming Obama Administration must ensure that the American people get a full and fair hearing on what happened in August.

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By BruSays, November 12, 2008 at 6:23 pm Link to this comment

More on “Did World War II end the Great Depression?”

Quoting from economists Joseph Cullen and Price Fishback:

“We examine whether local economies that were the centers of federal spending on military mobilization experienced more rapid growth in consumer economic activity than other areas. We have combined information from a wide variety of sources into a data set that allows us to estimate a reduced-form relationship between retail sales per capita growth (1939-1948, 1939-1954, 1939-1958) and federal war spending per capita from 1940 through 1945. The results show that the World War II spending had virtually no effect on the growth rates in consumption that we examined. This contrasts with Fishback, Horrace, and Kantor’s (2005) findings of about half a dollar increase in retail sales associated with a dollar of New Deal public works and relief spending.  Several factors contributed to this relative lack of impact. World War II spending often required a conversion of plants designed for civilian good production into military factories and back again over the 9 year period. Substantially higher federal tax rates that were paid by the majority of households imposed much stronger fiscal drags on the benefits of the spending. Finally, less of the military spending was earmarked for wages and use of locally produced inputs, which reduced the direct stimulus to the local economy.”

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By BruSays, November 12, 2008 at 6:17 pm Link to this comment

Nope Folktruther…DrWu was wrong. Please do the research. The data is all out there. (Better yet, write to Thom Hartmann at the Thom Hartmann show…he’s got all the info on this common myth.)

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By samosamo, November 12, 2008 at 5:31 pm Link to this comment

This our illustrious military/industrial/congressional complex and their traitorous lobbyists making sure that THEY get position to hoodwink obama into their continuing imperialist drive to maintain wars everywhere, and proposing more and more high tech contraptions just to keep those terror… oops sorry, americans in line as we seem to be the only people that are controlled by the MICC.

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By Folktruther, November 12, 2008 at 4:46 pm Link to this comment

No, you’re wrong, Brusays.  Dr wu is right.  Although it is true the Gops championed peace and isolationism.  To some extent because the American ruling class supported Hitler.

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By jmndodge, November 12, 2008 at 4:05 pm Link to this comment

I knew the story line we were being told was false, and that our nation needed factual information before we went off half cocked and escalated this situation.  Hopefully, when the truth comes out, it will not reveal that we told Georgia to go ahead, and hoped that we could bluff Russia into ignoring the situation.  The neo-con political machine has been wrong on almost every major decision, and to me it looks like their footprints all over this situation. Obama has the opportunity to provide more open information, and encourage the media to dig for facts. Leading a nation by deception, mis/dis -information, and blind patriotism is a recipe for disaster.  Sounds like the past eight years. Insist on change. Keep the light on, get the information out, and talk to your neighbors.

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By BruSays, November 12, 2008 at 4:04 pm Link to this comment

World War II did NOT get us out of the Depression. That’s a common myth pushed on us by post-war Republicans who wanted to roll back the significant changes accomplished by FDR in the 1930s.

If anything, the war slowed our economic expansion, which was already well underway by 1938-39. In fact, the Congressional record shows a long list of Republicans pushing us to stay out of the war because it would stymy our econonmic recovery.

And we should never cite wartime unemployment figures to underscore economic recovery. Of course, with hundreds of thousands of men off to war, unemployment will drop.

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By dr wu, November 12, 2008 at 3:09 pm Link to this comment

US leaders learned an important lesson a long time ago: War got us out of the depression. It wasn’t till 1944 that unemployment was licked. It was licked because we fielded a multi-million member army fighting abroad. In ‘44 25% of our GDP was based on deficit spending.

Our current crop of serial bubbler’s are at their wits end due to, the demise of the tech bubble and the housing bubble. Is our next bubble to end all bubbles, the war bubble?

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By BruSays, November 12, 2008 at 2:32 pm Link to this comment

Excuse me, but where was our illustrious “media” during the lead-up and conflict between Russia and Georgia?

If we’re relying on our government (be it Bush or Obama) to provide us with any information - let alone unbiased information - we’re doomed.

We don’t need to second-guess about this conflict or bicker like Monday morning quarterbacks. We need only look back 5 years to the lead up to our own dirty war in Iraq. Where was the media in 2003? Why, in their lust for ratings, they were tripping all over themselves promising “embedded” reporters, round-the-clock coverage, blah, blah, blah…and precious little analysis or concern on just WTF we’re doing there.

So, without REAL media (not our Corporate Media or flag-sucking Fox) we’ll remain in the dark, picking up the pieces 4 months later, wondering what happened and mumbling “how could this have gotten by us?” (Did you note Scheer’s ‘salute’ to BBC as one of the few media outlooks to expose this provocation?)

This is not a leadership issue; it’s a news reporting issue. Garbage in; garbage out.

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By Folktruther, November 12, 2008 at 1:37 pm Link to this comment

No,no,Cann4ing, far from chilling out, anti-imperialists need to heat up.  As Spiritgirl says, Obama is deciding policy now by forming a consensus, and this consensus partially depends on our shouting out. The neocons do it in the mass media.

Obama’s superior intellect doesn’t matter on this issue, Cann4ing.  You’ve got intellect on the brain, an occupational hazard with lawyers.  What matters is power relations, and the only power anti-imperialists have is mobilizing the population. 

Now.  Right now.

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By Russian Paul, November 12, 2008 at 12:27 pm Link to this comment

1. The US trained and equipped Georgian soldiers (and most likely advised them to attack Ossetia).

2. After the conflict began, we planned to send them $1 billion in aid, some of it in the form of large military ships coming through the Black Sea.

3. All this while, Cheney is figuring out how to better drink from Putin’s milkshake by improving the Caspian pipeline.

4. The US breaks an old promise and discusses letting Georgia into Nato.

5. They sign the infamous deal that would deploy a missile shield in Poland (this is the last straw).

I’m glad that people are starting to see that Georgia attacked first, but I think more people need to realize how all these events occured simultaneously in an effort to enflame and exacerbate foreign relations with Russia. Oil is a big part of it, but Cold War II would also guarantee more $ for the military contractors who must feed their addiction by ensuring perpetual conflicts.

But I do believe President-elect Obama has some promise…And now that Russia threatens to deploy their own missile shield, unless we stop plans to deploy ours…I feel (sort of) confident that he’ll put an end to that sorry plan.

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By Still Life Living, November 12, 2008 at 12:12 pm Link to this comment

“A 1996 press release promoting Gates’ memoir promised the revelation of “Carter’s never-before-revealed covert support to Afghan mujahedeen—six months before the Soviets invaded.””

Is it possible that the reason Iran took the Americans hostage was in response to our involvement in Afganistan?  I just don’t know the dates in question to build a timeline.

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By Alan Howe, November 12, 2008 at 11:58 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

At the risk of seeming clairvoyant, I had a long fight with the editorial board at the Washington Post concerning the fight in South Ossetia and Georgia as the conflict raged.  It was not that I could see better than they what was going on, it was merely that I read the reporting in their paper and they, apparently, did not.  On The Occasional Dissident page, I posted two essays calling attention to Saakashvili’s actions.  For those interested, seek out “Jingo Bells, Jingo Bells, Jingo All The Way” and “South Ossetia?  What South Ossetia?”  (Additional comments appear on the Occasional Dissident Myspace blog at myspace.com/occdis)

I was disgusted to hear McCain claim that “We are all Georgians now” and disappointed not to hear Obama suggest that Georgia had a role in starting the conflict.  He will do better, I assume.

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By dr wu, November 12, 2008 at 11:39 am Link to this comment

After the empire falls, is it okay to become a more benign former empire like Britain,or Spain or Holland?

You say empire over? Why,yes, we’re broke, out of oil, spirit gone all with Roman style leadership.

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By P. T., November 12, 2008 at 11:35 am Link to this comment

The same mistakes will be made over and over by the ruling class.  I think part of it is that they think that because the U.S. is the most powerful country, it should be able to determine unilaterally, if it pushes the right buttons, how the world works.

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By Margarita F., November 12, 2008 at 11:19 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Mr. Scheer is absolutely right in his analysis. Worse yet - on a Charlie Rose show post 9/11 (when the long-term consequences of the disastrous Carter policy in Afghanistan were more than painfully apparent), Zbigniew B. was asked whether he regretted his role in bringing about that policy. He looked straight in the camera and said “No!” The man viscerally hates all things Russian and with such blatant bias should never be allowed anywhere near a presidential ear. The U.S. finally needs to learn how to treat Russia as an equal. The question is who would communicate this to Mr. Obama…

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By Spiritgirl, November 12, 2008 at 10:57 am Link to this comment

Hold your horses, I think we need to let the man get into office before we criticize his actions.  As I understand it he asks everyone for advise, and then he speaks to the “middle”!  As so many gave George W. Bush an advantage (that he really didn’t deserve) by voting for the weasel, to screw America on so many levels, President elect Obama can’t be nearly as un-curious, incompetent, or out for the corporate & elite as Bushco is!

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By Rubaggio, November 12, 2008 at 10:41 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

So what is the Russian’s role in all of this, Mr. Scheer?  I don’t disagree on the point about the eagerness of some foreign policy hawks to Russia be that ubiquitous “other.”  But its not like the Russians acted at the time, and continue to act, according to some moral compass and liberal ideology.  It was, and continues to be, a power grab.  Russia must be dealt with, and as Obama says, their aggression NEEDS to be curbed.  The HOW to do that is the real question.

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By cann4ing, November 12, 2008 at 10:33 am Link to this comment

Progressives need to chill a bit.  Obama has sought out advice from a broad range of people—from hawks to doves.  His approach to decision-making entails taking in a full range of advice before settling on a decision.

Obama spent a few minutes accepting a congratulatory call from the Polish PM, and an erroneous story emerged that Obama had committed to the missile defense system being pushed by the Bush regime.  He had said nothing of the sort.  Let’s not underestimate the man’s superior intellect. 

Do you really think Obama is unaware of the provocative nature of the Bush regime’s policy towards Russia?  Do you really think that after stating he intended to sit down with foreign leaders to discuss such momentous issues without preconditions that he is going to follow neoconservative idiocy?

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By sophrosyne, November 12, 2008 at 10:30 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Neo-cons have no loyalty to American ideals or the Republican Party.  They will dump the Republicans in a second to buzz about Obama as their next stooge.

Tragically for America and the world, Likud Zionism, big oil and defense contractors have seen a conflation of their interests. Look for much more American and world suffering.

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By Folktruther, November 12, 2008 at 9:56 am Link to this comment

A new Cold War is possible, Anarcissie. The threat to the US power structure is that Western Europe turns toward Russia rather than the US, including Russia and Europe in the Common Market.  This would increase Europe’s world power relative to the US and China. 

The US therefore needs to prevent this.  That is probably the impetus for all the provocative military moves against Russia.  Should it become a stronger threat, and Russian oil and gas now is a major need for Germany and Western Europe, Obiden could continue the military threats of the Bushites.

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By Winston2, November 12, 2008 at 9:15 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

From this article…Those freedom fighters came to be united by our CIA with the likes of Osama bin Laden and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the architect of the 9/11 attacks.

Oh really?  Did Khalid Sheikh Mohammed plant the bombs in the twin towers and bldg 7 too?  Either the author is a liar or a fool to believe this…sorry but the truth hurts.

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By TAO Walker, November 12, 2008 at 9:14 am Link to this comment

Anybody remember the story of how the seas became salty….the “little mill” that, on request, ground any quantity of whatever was asked of it?  A certain ship-captain saw an “opportunity” for untold riches in selling salt to peoples with no handy sources of their own.  He got the little mill, by-hook and by-crook, put it on his boat, got it grinding-out NaCl, and set sail for some salt-starved place over the water.

The captain, wanting to maximize his “profits,” let the mill go on grinding ‘til his vessel was loaded to the gunwales.  He even threw some of the crew overboard to make room for more cargo.  Before he could tell the little mill to stop, however, a gust of wind came-up, tipped over the under-manned and over-loaded ship, sent it to the bottom….the little mill still grinding away.  The rest is “history.”

The “global” financial system is just like the little mill, only it grinds-out “money”....which, like salt, is in its essential nature toxic, corrosive, and habit-forming.  Nobody knows how to shut-off the “money” mill….even if anybody was willing.  So it goes on churning-out its poison into the domesticated peoples’ social arrangement, eating-away at its living tissues, corrupting its governing apparatus, destroying the wellsprings of its organic integrity, “preserving” the make-believe “power” structure, making helpless addicts of all who believe slavishly that nothing worthwhile is even possible without it.

“War” is another “manmade” thing that shares the “active” properties of “money” and salt.  The ancient Chinese saw “war” as a highly poisonous drug that should never be used except as a last resort, and even then only sparingly.  Inferred in that characterization, and made explicit by “thinkers,” was the tendency of “war” to wreak havoc on societies that made too-ready use of it. 

Those ancients seem not to’ve noticed, or maybe saw as too obvious to warrant mention, the way “war” could so easily become a habit….one with an ever-growing need for the “drug,” and epitomized by “modern” america’s seemingly insatiable demand for “war” waged perpetually, on “enemies” abstract and material.  Chris Hedges captured something of this in his treatment of “war” as the generator of “meaning” for theamericanpeople and their overseers.

Robert Scheer here repeats the popular fallacy that the “military industrial complex” is somehow no more than an “option” (admittedly extremely high-priced) added onto the “vehicle” of allamerican “manifest destiny.”  The overwhelming evidence shows that america in actual operation is really nothing but one big “war machine,” and that any attempt to throttle its “military-industrial complex” will result in the complete disintegration of the entire contraption.

No wonder Barack Obama’s greybeard advisors are so dead-set on cooking-up the next “new” fix…. nor that it is just like the old fix.  Looks like theamericanpeople just got fooled (and fucked) again.

Hokahey!

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By Anarcissie, November 12, 2008 at 9:08 am Link to this comment

I imagine Mr. O’s imperialism will be more collegial than Mr. B’s, more like Slick’s.  The hawks will probably be reduced to crowing about and occasionally striking only smaller prey.

Putin in dependent on energy sales to the West.  He’s stuck with us, and we’re stuck with him.  There is not likely to be any Cold War.

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By Folktruther, November 12, 2008 at 9:06 am Link to this comment

What Scheer does not say is that not only did Bush know the facts about the aggression of US led Georgia, but so did the NYTimes and Scheer himself.  that is, the American population was deceived not only by neocons, but by Imperialist progressives who sided with the US power structure rather than telling the simple truth.

The Dem-Gop leaders combine to lead the US into wars, most of which are promoted by Zionist warmongers in the policies of Likud Zionism.  The entire fraudulent War on Terrorism was developed by Zionists to promote this policy.  And Obama has amply indicated, with the appointments of the Zionist warmongers Biden and Emmanuel,  that he is going to pursue it just as the Bushites did.  And this is being supported and justified by imperialist Dems.

Anti-imperialist progressives must mobilize the population to repuditate Zionist militarism.  A sharp distinction must be made between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism, which Aipac and their supporters attempt to obscure, and demos against Zionist militarism and the War on Terrorism must be built, not simply the Iraqi war.

The Dem leadership has managed to defuse the Iraqi peace movement, so it must be generalized, the money saved from militarism used for peaceful purposes.  And this mobilization should be against Obiden, since he has written off progressives after using them to gain the presidency.

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By Purple Girl, November 12, 2008 at 8:49 am Link to this comment

I have confidence President elect Obama KNOWS exactly who he is talking to because he has a historical curiosity and thus perspective.
How many times do we listen, and yet reject our parents advise? Plenty!
How many times does the ‘Student’ become the ‘Teacher’ because the teacher is so limited by their own mental Ruts and stale dogma?
Sometimes you must engage those who fucked something Up to aid you in Unraveling it.
I’m hoping his propensity towards listening to various perspectives not only aids him in finding real solutions but also pinning down who should be held Legally responsible for the Treasonous Fuck ups!
9/11 was an accumulation of actions and policies which recklessly and intentionally left US endangered by retributive Retailation.
We don’t need to go looking in caves for a 6 ft dialysis patient (he’s not in one anyway), we need only look to the WH, congress and boardrooms to find those Who are respsonbilbe for not only 9/11, but also our economic meltdown.Freeze,Seize and Prosecute for High crimes- both Red & Blue Corporationists, these are the ones who hate our Freedoms, Our Free market, Our international Influences over Humanity. We were Warned about the Military Industrial Complex, it’s now time to dismantle it and seek revenge for their treasonous acts against US, Humanity, the Planet and Future generations! HANG ‘EM HIGH!!!

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By Can O' Whoopass, November 12, 2008 at 8:21 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

is it too late to strip Bush of any power and have him placed in a nut house?

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By Michael McBride, November 12, 2008 at 8:02 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

President Obama must reverse the flow back into cold war conflicts with Russia especially this over Georgia. This whole thing has NSA CIA written all over it. They have both demonstrated in the past how to pick the right dictator or operative assets like Saddam H & O.B. Laden. I hope that Obama will be able to wrap his brain around this situation without to much spin or consult from Brzezinski or Gates. They have the same old agenda that has transended many presidents. Maybe it is Obama’s strategic move to keep them in place long enough (as in keeping your enemies closer) to get a handle on what is really going on and them go completely a different way.

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By RdV, November 12, 2008 at 7:56 am Link to this comment

“We won’t be fooled again”? Or is it more like “Meet the new boss, just like the old boss”?

  One was willing to give Obama a bit of lattitude during the campaign to pander for votes, despite disappointing policy shifts, a certain timidity he rationalized as “bipartisanship” that sounded like triangulation with a new spin, but with each passing moment now as president elect the outlook resembles a kinder gentler version of the same old, same old.

  Hope & Change or Bait & switch?

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By Phracktivist, November 12, 2008 at 7:48 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

@G.Anderson:

You are right that realistically, we don’t have the money for more war, however, that has never stopped this government since 1913. Whenever there is no money, they just print more money (of course, that just weakens our dollar even more and gives us a larger debt; but at this point, we can see that they really don’t care much); that’s what they have the Federal Reserve for.

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By tomack, November 12, 2008 at 7:22 am Link to this comment

And so it continues:

http://www.mit-kmi.com/article.cfm?DocID=386

Money, money, money, money…..MONEY.

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By davidperi, November 12, 2008 at 6:31 am Link to this comment

When this first started this summer, it was reported in Russia Today that there were American special forces working and training in Georgia.  So final, the U.S. reports this.

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By nino, November 12, 2008 at 4:38 am Link to this comment

“In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.”

Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961

As long as we are kept in fear they can keep those military budgets growing! Although Amy Goodman did reported this yesterday:

“Pentagon Advisory Group: Military Budget “Not Sustainable”

A senior military advisory group is warning President-elect Obama the Pentagon’s budget is “not sustainable” and should be scaled back. According to the Boston Globe, the Defense Business Board has told Obama to cut expensive and obsolete weapons programs to focus on other priorities. An internal briefing says, “Business as usual is no longer an option.” A recent Government Accountability Office report found cost increases in the Pentagon’s ninety-five largest weapons programs went nearly $300 billion over initial estimates.”

Billions. trillions, first (and second) born, they simply want it all.

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By G.Anderson, November 12, 2008 at 4:26 am Link to this comment

Of course this is a concern, but with the stock market heading for 5,000 territory sometime in 2009, and GM heading to oblivion, there is no money to pay for another cold war.

Much like the old Soviet Union, that came apart at the seams from spending money on the military when it’s citizens couldn’t find bread at the store, our country is also heading for economic collapse.

We’re heading for at least 10 years of severe poverty, that can no longer support the kind of military budget needed to maintain our status as a superpower.

Quite simply it’s our turn to lose any cold war we start, because our economy, cannot bear the financial strain.

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