nrobi writes:

”..people who make these choices, the Bishops, insist that voting pro-life is the only choice that Catholics have. Yet this is an oxymoronic choice. For the very people who choose to vote “pro-life” are also voting for the very people who would install the death penalty for most if not all crimes.”

~~~~

Brava to you and MarthaA and all of the others who have made it a point to see through this hypocrisy.

The fanatics have used standard rhetorical (linguistic terms) to differentiate between so-called ‘pro-life’ and ‘pro-choice’.

The reality of course is that they are NOT ‘pro-life’, they are “Pro-CONTROL” and they don’t even do a good job at that. The Catholic Church is about the most authoritarian institution there is, having been around longer than any other one of many of the centuries.

As for the rest of them, they are NOT “pro-life”. If you genocide millions of innocent people and kill them off in illegal wars, you cannot call yourself, ‘pro-life’. If one is quite willing to starve huge portions of a population, and withhold medical treatment for preventable and curable diseases, than one is NOT ‘pro-life’. If one doesn’t want to make educational opportunities available to everyone who wants to be educated, than they are NOT ‘pro-life’. Those who rant and rave in calling for the death penalty, are not ‘pro-life’. They’re pro-retribution and pro-punitive. If they are perfectly willing to see homeless people with the basic necessities, then they aren’t ‘pro-life’.

All they care about is controling the lives of others, including ones they don’t even know.

MarthaA:

Brava!  Thanks for saying what needed to be said.

nrobi:

You hit the nail on the head: it is not about a “single-issue” life stance (i.e., abortion), it is about what Rev. Jim Wallis and others have called a “consistent pro-life position.”

In this regard, McCain/Palin may in fact hold the “orthodox” Catholic position on abortion, but, as you point out, they also support the death penalty (Obama supports it only in rare cases).  However, they also support war (“just” or otherwise), which kills people (both military and civilian) unnecessarily, and would do little re poverty, hunger, homelessness, etc., all of which can and do also lead to unnecessary death.  This would also include climate change (which Palin has expressed doubts about).

A “consistent” pro-life position takes into account ALL of the various issues that affect life.  As Rev. Wallis likes to say, “a budget is a moral document,” since how and where one puts one’s money is also a large factor in determining how to best maintain a consistent pro-life position.

In these regards, there is no question that, despite Obama’s pro-choice position (which, as you note, does not mean he is “for” abortion - a distinction too many people refuse to see), his overall policies and plans reflect a much more “consistent” pro-life position than McCain’s.

Peace.

By MarthaA, October 21 at 1:05 am #
Obama is pro-life.  Obama is not FOR abortion.  Obama says, “How could anyone be for abortion?” There are times when abortion is necessary and one has to provide for those times. Obama is a Christian realist, and Christians know that aborted babies will grow up in Heaven.
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Like nearly every single issue out there, he is dead moderate on this (like me).  I too am against abortion but I’m not a lunatic like McCain and Palin who would force people to have kids even if the mother could die, in case of rape, incest, etc.  That’s absolutely disturbing anyone could possibly think that way.

So, the majority of americans (or so I hope) that aren’t complete lunatics like McCain and Palin hopefully will all go to Obama and his fair position.

As a Recovered Catholic, I admit I am jaded.
Of three Daughters only One still continues to follow this Sect, and only because she is married to a Catholic. So 2/3’s have turned away.Perhaps the Church should take their own Poll as to how many followers they have lost….I bet the number is astounding.
Does the Catholic Church (or any other) truley think People (esp Americans) seek to have their religion RULE their entire life still?
Recently the Church showed a Conscience by Finally revealing that they Unjustly persecuted the Knights Templar- about 700 yrs too late. How many more are still on the list waiting to be vindicated. Perhaps it would be in their best interest to begin when Peter and Paul seized the faith,Crowned themselves ‘King’ and work forward.How about re instating ALL the gospels. How about removing the man made LIES which have plagued it’s followers since 300AD. How about admiring Eve for choosing the Apple and providing humanity with Knowledge- otherwise we’d be nothing more than DogsShe essentially accepted the Responsiblities of Stewardship of God’s creations here on Earth!
How about an apology for Mary Magadelene Being Portrayed as a Whore? How about Recinding the adage proof of Womens sin comes every month? How about retribution for burning & drowning ‘Witches’(Women). How about Allowing Women to take their rightful place in the Church!
The ROMAN Catholic Church has been the embodiment of oppression and destruction as was their Founding Political Empire. ‘Roman’ is not a Geographical reference to Italy, it is reference to the Political and Military power they were Spawn from and have weilded Now for millenia.These vicitms of Blind faith fail to Recall History. The Heresy & Hypocracy of the Faith (and all sects Born out of the Catholic Religion) is Proved in those Pages. They Killed Protestants, Jews, and Muslims.They were relentless in making Females their Scapegoats and the vilest of the genders.
What is most teltale about the real identity of this organization comes with the anointing a Nazi Youth as it’s reigning King.
Tell me where does it say the Faithful should Worship a Pope? Where does it say ‘Disregard all that is written if the Pope says so’?
“Thou shall Not Kill’ has never been a Commandement the Church has abidded By.Seems to me they have had difficutly refraining from ‘Coveting’ Too.So If the Vatican is on a Roll in Apologies perhaps they should start with God, and then the Other half of Humanity!
Ya Seen the so Called ‘prophetic’ drawings associated with Nostradamus where the women are Turned Away from the Pope?This was not a ‘vision’ it was Deductive Reasoning!
this has perpetuated itself into the 21st Century with this ‘Abortion issue’. The Church continues to reject Birth control methods to PREVENT Unwanted Pregancies and then States regardless of Death a Woman MUST give Birth!The Only Group I could possibly concede ARE Pro Abortion, are those guys who get a one night stand Pregnant!Ya Betcha.
How dare anyone insinuate if a Woman supports Prochoice she thinks nothing of the decision? Who You ask, those of course who are trying to re affirm the long held adage Women are THE Sinners of Humanity!
It’s time the Catholic Church and all it’s lil’ Spawns Acknowledge to (God given) Innate ability of Females to assist God in his Grand Design by providing the means of supplying Future Stewards. the Oldest Religions (the closest to ‘creation’)REVERED FEMALES,as they did MOTHER EARTH!
Until the ‘Christian’ faiths SETTLE UP with their Better half, their numbers will dwindle.
No Doubt their Foundational Judaism and their fledgling Islam need to do the Same,But I am Not a Muslim or a Jew either, nor any other ritualist heirarchial ‘Dog’ma Follower. I use the Gift of KNOWLEDGE, insight and deductive reasoning to guide my conscience and my actions.THANKS EVE!

In the public square, as a Roman Catholic, I know for a fact that the American Conference of Catholic Bishops have stated that, voting is an obligation that should be taken seriously and that voting pro-life is an essential part of the “Christian” faith. I am involved in a group that talks about the Catholic faith on a weekly basis during the weeks before Advent and the weeks during Lent, and I can assure you that the Bishops of America have states without equivocation that should someone vote for a person that is “pro-choice” they are in danger of their very soul.
Now, how does this square with the current article regarding the Catholic swing vote going to a pro-choice candidate? I cannot understand the Bishops insistence that we Catholics vote only for those who unequivocally state their opposition to Abortion in any form and for any reasons. The people who make these choices, the Bishops, insist that voting pro-life is the only choice that Catholics have. Yet this is an oxymoronic choice. For the very people who choose to vote “pro-life” are also voting for the very people who would install the death penalty for most if not all crimes.
How if one is “pro-life” can they be for the death penalty?  This is an inconsistent stance that requires some extreme mental gymnastics, to prove they are following the Word of G-d. For the Old Testament does not differentiate between the killing of unborn children and the state killing its own citizens.
This along with the fact that, many if not all of the “pro-life” candidates cannot and do not support the system of helping the poor and disabled in the fight to live. Republicans do not care about the children after they are born, witness the Republican Party blocking the extension of the Child Health Insurance Program.  Witness the gutting of services for the very people that need it most, the severely mentally-challenged and the physically challenged who cannot work for a living.
Florida is among the leading states that propose the doing away with many if not all of these programs that help the neediest in our society. Also witness the fact that once a child “ages” out of the foster care system, they without having had the chance to have a loving, caring family to live and thrive in, are tossed out onto the street without so much as a “How do you do,” without the necessary life skills to survive in the world.
All of these things put together, make the Bishops choice of candidates not only laughable but a serious and soul-threatening mistake.
I, for one, a Roman Catholic will vote FOR, Sen. Barack Obama, a person who cares about people in all stages of life, not someone like former Sen. Rick Santorum, who was the darling of the EWTN set, which made him into a cause celebre, for his votes against abortion, even when the mother’s life was at risk or in the chance of incest.
Remember this my friends, that the Gospel does not only speak of unborn life but our obligation, to support life in all its stages, and for the rich in this world to help and work for the betterment of those who cannot help themselves.