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By Mike Rose

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You’re No Harry Truman, Governor

Posted on Oct 2, 2008
Palin and Biden
AP photo / Don Emmert, pool

Republican Sarah Palin and Democrat Joe Biden respond to questions from moderator Gwen Ifill of PBS during their vice presidential debate Thursday in St. Louis.

He was boring. She was vapid. They were a perfect couple for the one and only 2008 vice presidential debate.

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Gov. Sarah Palin survived, much to the disappointment of Democrats who hoped she would crumble as she did in her interview with CBS anchor Katie Couric. But she ducked tough questions, gave canned answers, tried to smile her way out of tough spots and cheerfully distorted Sen. Barack Obama’s record.

Sen. Joseph Biden was, of course, better prepared. All those years in the Senate taught him something. What a creature of the Senate he was, working his way through the details of his legislative record, even invoking the name of a long departed hero, Sen. Mike Mansfield, who gave him advice he never forgot. Even if it was hard for listeners to concentrate on everything he said, the man knew what he was talking about.

In the contest for who was best qualified to be president, Biden won by a landside. In the contest for who won the debate, Palin illustrated a lesson that Willy Loman learned in Arthur Miller’s old play, “Death of a Salesman”: It takes more than a smile and a shoeshine to be successful.

She couldn’t smile her way out of trying to explain what Sen. John McCain would do about the financial crisis that is dragging the country down.


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Instead, she relied on anecdotes and folksy examples. She described how she and her husband, Todd (the “First Dude” of Alaska), would sit around and talk about how government is not the solution for the troubles of the middle class. She blamed “corruption and greed and Wall Street” for the nation’s troubles and wrapped herself in the mantle of First Mom. “I think a good barometer here, as we try to figure out, ‘Has this been a good time or a bad time in America’s economy?’ is go to a kids’ soccer game on Saturday and turn to any parent there on the sideline and ask them, ‘How are you feeling about the economy?’ ” Palin said. “And I’ll betcha you’re going to hear some fear in that parent’s voice.”

That’s not a helpful answer, Governor, and by the way we all noticed the lakefront house you and Todd have up in Alaska when Charlie Gibson interviewed you there. Pretty nice, especially with Todd’s airplane parked out back.

Palin was a total wild card. Nothing Biden said had any impact on her. She treated him graciously, as if he were an odd but pleasant newcomer to Wasilla, having just moved there from the lower 48. He showed she was often factually wrong, but she ignored him with a smile. Finally, he was reduced to repeating his points. “Let me say it again,” he said on a couple of occasions.

She was a difficult opponent for Biden, who rose through Delaware politics and the Senate, where discussion and debate are conducted in the back-and-forth manner of traditional politics.

Biden seemed to practice the art of brevity Thursday night. In an effort to tone down his sometimes ungovernable enthusiasm, he was often plodding. But he was loaded with facts.

In response to Palin’s touting of alternative energy, Biden said McCain had voted 10 times against such proposals. Biden went into a lengthy explanation of Obama’s votes on Iraq. “Your plan is a white flag,” Palin said.

After a while, though, smiles and cutting lines annoy or even bore an audience.

Biden slogged along, one fact after another, treating his foe with congenial respect. He knew more than she did but didn’t make a big thing of it. That was all he had to do.

The main purpose of the debate was to show the American people who would be best qualified to take over if the president died.

Palin likes to cite the example of Harry Truman, who was a farmer and an unsuccessful haberdasher before going into politics and becoming president after Franklin Roosevelt’s death. But Truman was an accomplished senator before Roosevelt chose him to be vice president. He was the nationally known chairman of a committee which unearthed corruption by World War II contractors.

Palin showed she could get through a debate without being rattled, after days of preparation in McCain’s house in Arizona. That’s all she showed. Aside from sharing small-town roots, Sarah Palin is no Harry Truman.

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Outraged's avatar

By Outraged, October 4, 2008 at 1:49 pm Link to this comment

Re: Shenonymous

Your comment: “Why siphon votes away from Obama and put McCain in?  It is stupid.”  and also;

“If McCain narrowly flushes through like Bush did, twice!  Nader has only himself to blame.”

Both of these assertions have been proven false.  It is Democrat Party rhetoric.

The 2000 election was stolen:

“The Final Count
According to the official 2001 Statistics of the Presidential and Congressional Election of November 7, 2000, George W. Bush beat Al Gore in Florida by 543 votes. It is noteworthy that every third-party candidate received enough votes in Florida to have cost Al Gore the election.

Green Party Presidential Candidate Ralph Nader did not work for the Florida Secretary of State, the Palm Beach County Election Commission, the Al Gore campaign committee, or the United States Supreme Court. Yet, he has become a scapegoat among many Democrats for Al Gore’s loss of the 2000 election, and, beyond the election, the person to blame for the resulting policies of George Bush. These diehard Democrats are averse to looking at the failings of their candidate, and they are not blaming voters for failing to vote at all. Instead, they are upset that Ralph Nader did not acquiesce to dropping out of the race as many urged him to do. As a side note, if Al Gore had won his home state of Tennessee, he would have had the necessary Electoral College votes to have won the election and the Florida results would have been irrelevant.

The facts are compelling and undeniable that Ralph Nader is not the reason, and should not be blamed, for George Bush’s victory in the 2000 presidential election.”

This link shows that there were MANY other votes cast for parties/individuals aside from Nader.  These would be the infamous 543 votes supposedly “taken” from Gore, from the Socialist Party = 622, the Socialist Worker Party = 562, the Reform Party = 17,484, the Worker’s World Party =1804….etc. (scroll down for chart)

All that aside, the 2000 election WAS STOLEN, we know that.

The 2004 election:

“The 2004 presidential contest between Democratic challenger Senator John Kerry and the Republican incumbent, President Bush Jr., amounted to another stolen election. This has been well documented by such investigators as Rep. John Conyers, Mark Crispin Miller, Bob Fitrakis, Harvey Wasserman, Bev Harris, and others. Here is an overview of what they have reported, along with observations of my own.

Some 105 million citizens voted in 2000, but in 2004 the turnout climbed to at least 122 million. Pre-election surveys indicated that among the record 16.8 million new voters Kerry was a heavy favorite, a fact that went largely unreported by the press. In addition, there were about two million progressives who had voted for Ralph Nader in 2000 who switched to Kerry in 2004.

Yet the official 2004 tallies showed Bush with 62 million votes, about 11.6 million more than he got in 2000. Meanwhile Kerry showed only eight million more votes than Gore received in 2000. To have achieved his remarkable 2004 tally, Bush would needed to have kept all his 50.4 million from 2000, plus a majority of the new voters, plus a large share of the very liberal Nader defectors.

Nothing in the campaign and in the opinion polls suggest such a mass crossover. The numbers simply do not add up.

Scapegoating Nader for this mess is plain nonsense.  It is also rhetoric to claim a vote for Nader is a vote for McCain.  Claiming that is like claiming a vote for Kerry in 2004, was a vote for Bush, since Kerry caved regarding the recount.  A vote for Nader, is a vote for Nader - that’s it. 

People have the RIGHT to vote for the candidate of their choice.  More importantly, CITIZENS SHOULD NOT BE SUPPRESSED FROM VOTING AND ALL VOTES SHOULD BE COUNTED.

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By Inherit The Wind, October 4, 2008 at 12:26 pm Link to this comment

PatrickHenry, October 3 at 3:52 pm #

I wondered why they called her Caribou barbie.

Now I know.

Because a moose may be a dumb animal but it’s an EXTREMELY DANGEROUS dumb animal! 

(Moose kill more humans in North America than bears).

(amazing! A P/H post I agree with! Will wonders never cease?)

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By Inherit The Wind, October 4, 2008 at 12:19 pm Link to this comment

Linda S, October 3 at 2:28 pm #

“Take a course in basic microeconomics!  They don’t pass on tax increases to the consumer any more than they pass on tax DECREASES!”

100% incorrect. May I suggest to you that you take that course? Becuase what you write is nonsense.

Based on what? Do you need me to give your formal citations to the economics texts that define the concept of the elasticity?

Actually, if you’ve had basic high school geometry elasticity is easy to understand—it’s (approximately) a measure based on the SLOPE of the supply or the demand curve….Y=(M*X) + B—the basic formula for a line where M is that slope.

Once you take that slope and alter it so supply and demand curves are steep or shallow you can map how price affects consumption.

Oh….and a supply and demand chart has price on the vertical and amount purchased on the horizontal….so the cigarette smokers have a VERY steep demand curve.  Therefore even a large increase in price reduces their consumption very little.

But a similarly large increase in gas prices causes people to reduce the consumption.  They show this by driving less.  Ask anyone you know if they changed their driving habits as gas prices rocketed. Bet you find 9 out of 10 did, if they could.

Saying it’s nonsense is like saying 2 + 2 = 4 is nonsense.  The math is just as solid and unimpeachable.

I guess it’s nonsense.  If you are Sarah Palin and flunked out of 4 or 5 colleges taking 6 years to get a degree in journalism—but can’t name a single newspaper you read!

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By troublesum, October 4, 2008 at 12:10 pm Link to this comment

No more Mr Nice Guy.  They’re going to get down and dirty:

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By Folktruther, October 4, 2008 at 12:08 pm Link to this comment

The difference between Europe and America in terms of the health care, benefits, wages, public amenities, etc is quite simple.  America has traditionally been a highly racist country and the ruling class has used this racism to cross class boundaries to immobilize prgressives and the working class. 

The Constitution is a highly racist document, excluding Indians and African-Americans from “life, liberty and property” and the US has maintained this racist terrorism to rob other countries of their resources. The US polity has ripped off half of Mexico from Latino’s, exploited and imprisoned Asians, which have been mass murdered in foreign policy, and, now, have declared a War on Terrorism agaisnt Muslims, many dark-skinned.

This racism has not been confronted in general by mainstream pseudo-prgressives, who in reality identify with it while paying lipservice to Libety and Democracy.  Racism has devided the American working class, allowing the ruling class to divide and conquer.  And installing members of racial minorities to delude and oppress their own groups.

But it is highly uneducated to say so in a simple way.  This is not what we teach our children in the schoolbook history and social theory.  We support mainstream progressives who do not confront this racism frankly, and therefore cannot unite the population against the powerful to gain Europe’s benefits.

And election’s PREVENT the frank discussion of serious moral and ideological issues, because the media is controlled by the ruling class.  Therefore the trivia and power delusions trump serious inquiry, and the function of mainstream Education and Information is to continue to delude, distract and cynicize the population.

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By Shenonymous, October 4, 2008 at 11:56 am Link to this comment

yeah, yeah, yeah, we know all about Nader.  He cannot win.  Why siphon votes away from Obama and put McCain in?  It is stupid.  If Nader wants to make an impact, he needs to speak out everywhere his supporters will pay for him to do so!  He knows the Republicans will only keep doing what he says he is vehemently against.  There he is on Amy Goodman’s DemocracyNow blaming the American people instead of himself, selling them short.  Because they don’t want him, then they don’t want much!  That is just plain bullshit.  He doesn’t know what the Democrats would do.  Obama is not Clinton, nor is he a Republican!  Vote Obama/Biden unless you want at least four more years of Bush and company ideology.  If McCain narrowly flushes through like Bush did, twice!  Nader has only himself to blame.  Maybe that is the Republican strategy.  Maybe Nader is on the Republican payroll under the table.  Can it be proven he isn’t?  It’s like trying to prove god does not exist.  It always looks like one thing when we know it is another.  The Republican bag of tricks.  And we have been fooled over and over again.  Nader knows the score.  He knows he doesn’t have a rat’s ass chance in Velveetaland Hell!  It is pure demagoguery.  Obama has at least one eight-ball against him, being half black.  Call it a race card but the fact is there is a racist America out there.  He still has an uphill climb.  We’ve heard about Obama’s shortcomings.  His list is a lot shorter than McCain’s and Nader’s.  He is still getting my vote!

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By Frank Cajon, October 4, 2008 at 11:32 am Link to this comment

Tellya what: I betcha that Joe Sixpack and Jill Soccermom are thinkin that Sarah is justa bout the best darn maverick VP out there in good ol’ middle America.
Sure, Biden had more to say. Sure he is intelligent, to an extent, she isn’t. But that isn’t the point. If the American electorate were picking candidates on brains, McCain wouldn’t have a chance at the GOP pick, and Kucinich probably would have been the Demo pick.

This is all about surface, not substance. The woman was picked by McCain in the worst lapse of judgment in years because of: her gender and her appearance. Call it sexist, but she only got the nod over much more qualified running mate candidates because she is female and will pull in votes from women, and men who like McCain have a weakness for attractive brunettes, regardless of their intelligence. Her conservative credentials aren’t even in order, her baggage is laughable, she can’t be interviewed or conduct a press conference, she has rudimentary knowledge of our political system, but she looks like a great weather reporter on a TV show, and sounds like a simple country music sweetheart dedicating a song to some patriotic cause. All those beauty contests have taught her poise and the CC courses in TV journalism how to be vague while staring down a camera.

This all would be somewhat amusing except for the very frightening fact that McCain is ill and she represents, if Americans are as foolish as they were in 2004, a potential President.

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By Outraged, October 4, 2008 at 11:16 am Link to this comment

Consider the outcome of an Obama presidency.  Already, since his nomination he has sided with corporations on the FISA legislation (and agreed to spying on Americans) and has not only endorsed this “bailout”(theft) but went out of his way to convince others to support it also.

Along with McCain and Bush, Obama was instrumental in the passage of this bill in the House the second time.  It is unrealistic to believe that Obama would “be better than McCain”.  They are both continuing to support the interests of multinational corporations.

Ralph Nader on DemocracyNow:

AMY GOODMAN: Our guest is independent presidential candidate Ralph Nader. He has run for president three times. Maybe I confused you with Eugene V. Debs. He ran five times?

RALPH NADER: He ran five times, with the statement: better to vote for someone you believe in and lose than to vote for someone you don’t believe in and win who will certainly betray you. That’s a very, very important thing for voters to consider when they decide what they’re going to—

AMY GOODMAN: He was also disappointed with the American people, in terms of activism.

RALPH NADER: Yeah. Yeah, a remarkable statement. A reporter asked him, “What’s your biggest regret?” at the end of his great career as a labor leader. And Eugene Debs said, “My greatest regret is that, under our Constitution, the American people can have almost anything they want, but it just seems they don’t want much of anything at all.”

Fast-forward to 1945. We were the biggest power in the world after World War II. Western Europe was devastated, but those people pushed and got, by law, universal healthcare, decent pensions, living wage, decent public transit, paid vacation, paid maternity leave, paid family sick leave, university free education. They got it, by law.

Sixty-three years later, these two parties, the Republican and Democratic parties, still have not given the American people what people in western Europe got decades ago. So we’re trying to raise the expectation level, Amy, of the American people. If they become cynical and withdraw, which is what cynicism does, then they’re going to lose their country. These giant corporations that hijacked our government are tearing the heart and soul out of America.

I’m with Eugene Debs.  Vote in your best interests and NOT for someone who, not only WILL betray you, but already HAS.  This would apply to McCain and Obama.

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By Sepharad, October 4, 2008 at 11:02 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Over breakfast this a.m., my husband and I decided that it’s virtually certain California will NOT go Republican, so we’re both going to vote Nader/Gonzales and against every incumbent on our ballot.

If we lived in Ohio or Missouri we probably wouldn’t indulge our anger: McCain/Palin would be worse, and if we wake up to find out that California went to them by two votes we’ll be very very sorry and you all can tell me what idiots we were.

But we can’t look our kids and young grandkids in the face and vote for more of the same ...  can’t get past either today’s NYTimes photo of Pelosi grinning like a fool while signing this rotten, sell-out bailout bill, or the news item that Paulson is getting two Goldman/Sachs guys on board to work on straightening things out with him. A big fox letting two more foxes into what is now Fox Manor; the few hens still laying will be eaten alive shortly.

And nobody is even sure this will work!

Barney Franks says that next session they are going to correct the problems and mechanisms of this bill, but why can’t they do it right now?  Worst of all, Obama worked the Black Caucus to make sure this bill got over the top—not something I wanted to read.

Having registered voters down South what seems like eons ago, then spending years trying to help get the Freedom of Information Act passed so people could discern what they are voting for, I foolishly thought that guaranteeing the right to vote and a mechanism to get pertinent information was all the revolution this country needed. Now what? Do we have to amend the Voting Rights Act with some litmus test to indicate that each registered voter has a living, analytically functioning brain in his or her head? At the very least we need to go back to black pencil and paper ballots, laminate them the minute after they’re marked in the voter’s presence, then deposit them in a bombproof tinkerproof ballot box guarded and carried to the vote-counting place by armed Navy Seals.

I’m depressed, angry, and not fit for the company of anyone but my husband and our horses.

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By steve, October 4, 2008 at 10:56 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I still like the Palin McCain ticket.  McCain has all the experience needed to be a good president and Sarah Palin is really cute.  Also, everyone on fox news says her husband “is a really cool guy” .  Hey that’s enough for me.  McCain Palin 08!!!!!

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By Leefeller, October 4, 2008 at 8:56 am Link to this comment

Oh - how sweet it is!

Our super two party system,  has smelled for a long time, their mundane agendas are preselected by certain segments of the elite or it may be more accurate to say selected by a few, usually the big money contributers.  So real issues become almost absent.  I am talking words like Peace, will we ever see a world with out war? Medical care for everyone, oh no that would be socialism. 
Propaganda over many years has programed two key words, these words woven into the political arena for a long time have been the arch enemies of the elite and so the people, socialism and Communism. 

Communism has played out for now, so, now we have seen the evolving of key phrases, like “Spreading Democracy and freedom”  Key phrases are more catchy and palatable to the masses?  How about “support the troops” or maybe this one “you are with me or against me”, my favorite of all time, especially if it were true, “Mission accomplished”.  Lets get back to socialism, during the 1920’s the word was demonized in the US by corporate interests.  Usually socialism was touted in the same breath as communism,  this was used successfully against steel workers in order to get public opinion against the Unions.  Manipulation by opportunists has been so very successful over the years, so even today socialism is a bad word. 

Our two party system provides a simple us and them approach.  An Introduction of third a or forth party with clout would inhibit the focused agenda and control of power as it now exists. Can you imagine if we had several powerful parties in Congress? 

Preselected issues are important in the grand scheme of things, especially when one realizes and accepts the premise, people really are to be used as a tool for molding and manipulation. 

The recent bailout, handout happened so fast it made ones head spin,  payoffs are no longer hidden from view.  Some folks have   suggested the bailout is socialism for the wealthy, this cannot be, for the few are not society.

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By jackpine savage, October 4, 2008 at 6:53 am Link to this comment


I’m with you. I enjoy throwing away my vote as much as the next person, and i do so with the knowledge that if enough of us throw away our votes they will spill out of the trash can and make a real difference.

I’ve got nothing against Obama. He has a great deal of potential, but i must admit that he’s probably sold himself to the same interests that they all do. Without G.W. to vote against, i was prepared and excited to throw away my vote again.

The nomination of Gov Palin and the increasingly erratic behavior (along with some disturbing research) of Sen McCain have convinced me that i do not have the luxury to throw away or vote my actual conscience. I know that it can be construed as “selling out”, but one must do what one must do.

I imagine voting minor party and then watching McCain win a squeaker…even though my vote probably wouldn’t have changed things, i’d still blame myself. So i take some cold comfort in the fact that at least we’ll have two intelligent, rational people occupying the WH.

How low have we sunk when being intelligent and rational seem like high water marks?

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By Daniel Good, October 4, 2008 at 6:40 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Fersure, Palin succeeded in getting through the debate without a major embarrassment. Does that make her the winner? She succeeded mainly by avoiding the questions and reiterating threadbare talking points. She succeeded by avoiding real challenges by the moderator, who probably wanted to avoid confrontation, preferring to let the candidates speak for themselves. But what Palin did was introduce us to a man few knew or appreciated. For this she should be thanked. What a breath of fresh air it was to see a candidate speak truth with clarity, with facts and with feeling. Thank you Sarah Palin for introducing us to the real winner, Senator Joe Biden.

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By Shenonymous, October 4, 2008 at 6:10 am Link to this comment

Well Outraged, I fear you and Leefeller are right, but I don’t see Democrats talking up a war.  Obama will have to react to what the B&C;administration is plotting.  Everything they say affects the entire world.  The world has to guess what is coming down the pike.  Even the senators are not told everything the administration does.  Even presidential candidates are not told.  If Obama appears to endorse any extended military engagement in the world, and I do not believe that is true, but if he does it is only because of a pre-fiat condition set by the Republican administration and for every action there is a reaction, it is a law of physics.

If Bush leaves this country in a war state, and of course he will because his pathology wants to undermine any future administration including a Republican one because of the shithole his put us in, gawd it’s smelly ain’t it da trooth Folktruther, Obama will have to figure out a horribly complex retreat. 

Bush has ruined this country.  Whose crystal ball will give a hint at the non-rational factors in play?  The McCain last-minute-mystery attack on Obama is a magician’s trick to take the attention away from the card up the sleeve.  Solution:  Don’t take your eyes off the ever-moving hands.  See how much time is being spent already in anticipation?

If this country were parliamentary in its government and if it were a socialist democracy, the 850 billions dollar bailout would not have happened.  There would not be the truly sinful situation Americans find themselves in. 

The fact is it was allowed to happen.  It happens when we aren’t looking.  We want to look at ‘pretty faces.’  We are living in OZ.  If we only had a brain!  We seem to be blinded by our own dollar signs paltry as they may be.  There wouldn’t be the megamoney disease that exists today if we ourselves didn’t want so much.  There is a mirror on the wall.  We just have to take a look into it to see all of our problems. 

The factchecker site is extraordinary in showing that both sides have their faults.  Question is, which faults are more grievous?  There is never going to be a perfectly acceptable candidate for president.  It is always pissing contest between money and rights. 

Nader/Gonzales will not make it.  Nader’s ego eliminated himself years ago.  Obama or McCain will win and that is the truth.  I have considered my vote very carefully.  No Republican could ever earn it.  There is too much to lose: Constitutional rights is just one of them, with new appointments on the Supreme Court that a Republican would make would whittle away even more than B&C;have done.  Vote Obama/Biden.  It will be refreshing to have two intelligent minds minus egocentrism in the White House.

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By troublesum, October 4, 2008 at 5:44 am Link to this comment

Anybody get the impression that Sarah Palin is going to go back to Alaska and be quiet if they lose the election?  If they lose, the stage has been set for one hell of a blood bath for the republican nomination in 2012.  It will make the Obama/Hillary contest look like a day on the playground at school.

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By jackpine savage, October 4, 2008 at 5:02 am Link to this comment

I’ll put this here, even though it is a little off topic. The NY Times just ran a piece that tells the story of how the SEC decided that reserve rules could be forgone…at the behest of the major investment banks (you remember those, right, the US used to have a few) and apparently spearheaded by one Hank Paulson, then CEO of Goldman Sachs.

The reserve rules were there to make sure that banks had enough capital to cover their losses in the event of a downturn. It was April 2006 when the SEC agreed to waive the rules. One committee member quipped that he’d “keep his fingers crossed for the future.”

After the rules were discarded, the investment banks began their leveraging orgy in order to enter the “opaque world” of “exotic instruments”.

The rest is almost history, except that the same guy who was instrumental in causing the problem is now, apparently, the guy who’s supposed to get us out of the mess.

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By thebeerdoctor, October 4, 2008 at 4:09 am Link to this comment

I wish politicians of all stripes would stop using beer as a prop for their talking points. George W. Bush was suppose to be “the guy you could have a beer with”. Then there was Hillary Clinton chugging on a bottle of South American lager, Presidente I think it was. Now the moose lady is saying she is championing Joe six pack.
As Miller High Life spokesman, Windell Middlebrooks would say: “Joe six pack? You got to be kidding.”

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By Leefeller, October 4, 2008 at 3:04 am Link to this comment


Yes, I too see the war and more wars mentality of both parties.  Incompetence of the McCain ticket has been increasing as of late, so the extra last little bit of smear and low ball crap will be coming.  It will boil down to if people like the Bush last 8 smelly years, or prefer change of socks? 

Biden, used the word fundamental several times,  hope he was telling the truth.  Blinky and Wrinkly just do not make the grade, the fact she is a governor is very scary,so she believes she should as Vice President have more power?  Her disreguard of the law means she will fit right into the Chaney’s seat without missing a beat, maybe she believes in the Bush and Chaney way.

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By Folktruther, October 4, 2008 at 1:42 am Link to this comment

troublesum’s point, that there will probably be a smean in the last few days, most likely a racial smear, is likely.  If it weren’t for race this election wouldn’t be close.

These smeanrs work on some kind of non-rational level that I don’t understand.  Clevland, was defeated in a Senate race by comparing him to bin Laden after he lost three limbs fighting in Vietnam.

Kerry was effectively smeared by the Sweftboaters when the Bushites were draft dodgers and Bush deserted while the US was at war in Vietnam.

Some kind of non-rational factors are in play.  When threatened with death, for example, experiments have show that voters switch from more rational to more traditional candidates in great numbers.

This irrational factors are another reason why these elections prevent democracy rather than promote it.  People can’t make rational power decisions in their own interests if they are systematiclly deluded and manipulated.

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By moineau, October 4, 2008 at 1:02 am Link to this comment

agreed, outraged. i’ve been depressed all day. all i can see in the future is war, war, war.

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By truthseeker4all, October 4, 2008 at 12:57 am Link to this comment

@Linda S, October 3 at 7:55 am #
“Why not do some real research and before commenting? You look so follish.”

I’m not an expert on any of this, but it appears that you are incorrect about a number of assertions related to the candidates statements and plans.

If you care to take your own advice, you ought to read this page (there are corrections throughout, so you should read all of it).  I assume you’d agree that FactCheck.Org is a respectable source.
FactChecking Biden-Palin Debate

My summary:  Given that Biden cited so many details and facts,  I expected him to have the highest number of false statements.  However, Palin seems to be the false-statement winner.  When I look at the substance of the mistakes, Palin was much more guilty of intentionally misrepresenting the truth; whereas, Biden’s missteps, for the most part, seem inadvertent (meaning that he made a reasonable attempt to get the facts correct).

Make sure not to miss the cost/benefit comparison between McCain’s and Obama’s health care plans.

I understand that there are things to like about both McCain and Palin, and that Obama, seemingly, doesn’t have a lot of experience.  But personality isn’t going to get us out of this mess…it’s actually going to require intellect, good judgment, and a willingness to think out of the box.  Look at the complete resumes, and pretend you’re an HR recruiter. 

Our options are about as desirable as the bailout package, but it’s pretty clear to me that Obama is a preferable bet.

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By Outraged, October 4, 2008 at 12:51 am Link to this comment

Re: Shenonymous

Your comment: “Then with the dollar cost of the wars, now we have to talk about two or three more! with Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan, the middle class is as screwed as it possibly can be.  No decent health care, no decent money going into education,

But neither of the MAJOR PARTY CANDIDATES, will change this.  Their positions on these issues, endorse more of the same.  So… how will McCain or Obama CHANGE anything.  They won’t… because as they have proposed, they have no intention of doing anything of the sort.  It’s that simple.  Scary…yes, difficult…NO.

Consider your vote carefully.

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By Outraged, October 4, 2008 at 12:28 am Link to this comment

There are all types of superfluities we could examine considering these two.  However, the bottom LINE is their positions on the issues.  I found more agreement between them, than not.  This then becomes THE ISSUE.

Should we be debating on their particular follow-through?  Do you care that they “appeared” this or that?  Did she/he win the debate?

Aren’t these things mindless blathering, fun maybe… sure… I can see that.  But what was the message?  What did these two TELL US?  Put that in a nutshell once, say four issues.  Are you in agreement?  Is this what you envision for the next 4/8 years…

Consider these things carefully, they matter.

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By moineau, October 4, 2008 at 12:02 am Link to this comment

well, i care if she had crib notes! my point was not that she “broke the rules” but that the rules of the cpd are not known to us and probably allowed notes. the cpd is corrupt. bring back the likes of the league of women voter debates!

one reason i care is because if people on the edge knew that she was working off notes, following a script (she is actually shown turning the pages several times) they might be put off. what a crock. i believe it should be exposed.

one thing not to be missed is the side-by-side debate footage of george bush and sarah palin on keith oberman tonight. it was brilliant. palin is an alumnus of gingrich society that trains republican candidates and the talking points were almost verbatim. sarah palin IS george bush lol.

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By Outraged, October 3, 2008 at 9:45 pm Link to this comment


Vote Nader/Gonzales.

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By RoxyFL, October 3, 2008 at 8:43 pm Link to this comment

As a woman, as a mom, as a wife, as a mom who worked but currently between jobs, I find Sarah Palin disgrace for the rest of the American women. I question her sincerity through the words that comes out of her mouth, her fake smile, pretend cuteness, and parrot attitutude. I only hope ladies who watched her can see through all that and realize each of them are a lot stronger and wiser and CUTER smile when they are raising their children, financing their income , taking care of their families and providing for them financialy if necessary!!
why not send her back to Alaska where she claims she did so much good and stay there?

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By Shenonymous, October 3, 2008 at 8:01 pm Link to this comment

Republican women and Democratic women should be scared shitless their family income will evaporate, and now that the financial world has been bailed out with our money, it will be decades before any of it comes back and then maybe it won’t.  Then with the dollar cost of the wars, now we have to talk about two or three more! with Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan, the middle class is as screwed as it possibly can be.  No decent health care, no decent money going into education, just take a look at the mess in California with Schwartzenegger’s perennial budget problems. Their education system is in the toilet.  By the way I heard if you are a teacher, Las Vegas is hiring hundreds due to their increased housing developments.  Las Vegas is recruiting teachers from the hurricane torn gulf coast states.

Does anybody really care if she had crib notes?  Even if it broke the rules?  I think Biden did a great job in dispelling the idea that McCain is a maverick.  It is always nice to get yourself a nickname if you are a politician.  Remember the Gipper, how about the Terminator, and some turn on its owner’s head:  Tricky Dick comes to mind first. Slick Willie, the Comeback Kid, and Bubba all referred to Clinton and then some.

The other thing that is an important thing for Obama to use to his advantage:  Palin kept trying to stop Biden from bringing up the debacle of the last eight Republican years in the White House, by trying to chide him out of using history as a device to point out real issues for change (because McCain wants to paint himself as the agent of change).  It is must be recognized that anticipation of the future is only possible if the past can be called to mind.

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By libertarian, October 3, 2008 at 7:37 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Author Boyarsky closes his essay with, “Aside from sharing small-town roots, Sarah Palin is no Harry Truman.” Sadly, he may be wrong. Truman was the premier terrorist of the post WWII world. He used nuclear weapons to incinerate two Japanese cities unnecessarily months after Japan had already been defeated militarily. A submarine-enforced blockade had been starving Japan for some months and any land invasion by the US would have gone unopposed (as proven by the occupation which did follow shortly after).

The point is that Palin and McCain are likely as heartless and unworthy of office as either Bush or Truman.

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By troublesum, October 3, 2008 at 7:11 pm Link to this comment

This is the standard now - that our leaders don’t make fools of themselves in answering simple questions from corporate sponsored journalists.
“Senator, what about Iraq?”  “Governor, what about health care?”  “Your two minutes are up.”  “You have 90 seconds to respond.”

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By CJ, October 3, 2008 at 6:21 pm Link to this comment

A lot less than “no Harry Truman”! Biden was burdened with the impossibility of the situation: damned if he did, damned if he didn’t. “Boring” was a victory for Biden. Not even hare-brained twits manning Lou Dobbs progam, including the fact-less demagogue-in-chief himself, could find anything about Biden’s performance to harangue over. Not even Ed Rollins! (Who a few might recall assisted the Great Deregulator into office.)

Still, I was on the verge of declaring the governor winner, but thought again. I sensed I’d been patronized by the governor in my capacity as one among millions of “Joe-Six-packs” (complete with belly and toenails). I thought to myself, what does this woman know about Joe Six-packs? Is hubby one? Not hardly…, not if he’s got a plane parked in his…sorry, her…backyard. I recalled that we Joes actually have to work for a living, which of course, is how we became Joe Six-packs in the first place here in ‘merica, which is indeed in all ways enough to drive any to drink. What’s more, some of us have had occasion to observe hockey games. I wondered to myself if Ms. Palin really knows the difference between the slot and the crease? How about a back-check? Not that either? Okay, a fore-check then? A puck?

An ex-Joe Six-pack (now evangelical) with whom I work noted she winked at him four times. I replied that I’d not noticed because I was only listening, not actually watching. My workmate, who’s of similar mind with the governor on matters of religion and so gave up suds years and years ago, seemed also to be saying—in his own more-or-less inarticulate way—that he too felt patronized. (He noted a couple of other details I can’t mention here. Despite having come to know the Lord, he’s not lost sight of reality in the way the governor appears to have done.)

The real loser was the governor’s running mate, who today continued in lying denial as he guffed or harrumphed or whatever that guttural utterance was over the governor’s performance. “How about that.” 

If Palin’s no Truman, McCain isn’t even Hoover. I could be wrong, since I also think Lincoln fired McClellan when Abe discovered him to be a lousy, if-no-doubt-younger-back-then general.

Sounds like hubby, Todd, might be Hoover, however, in combination with Ronald Reagan. Maybe McCain should have chosen Todd.

Anyway, the “ticket” remains lodged at 40-something percent in polls. Onward downward.

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By Dr. Knowitall, PhD, PhD, October 3, 2008 at 6:19 pm Link to this comment

Joe Biden’s hands were tied.  He did what he had to: stay away from Bobby soxer Palin and her record.  Attack the McCain-Bully Boy Bush Alliance.

I thought he did great.  I wouldn’t have wanted to be up there with her.  Your chances of coming out successful are highly against you and Biden did it.

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By Dr. Knowitall, PhD, PhD, October 3, 2008 at 6:16 pm Link to this comment

Palin is a high school girl in time warp.  You betcha.

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By Killer Bud, October 3, 2008 at 6:01 pm Link to this comment

Did anyone else catch this AP article?

Palin questions McCain’s concession of Michigan
By JIM KUHNHENN – 54 minutes ago

SAN ANTONIO (AP) — Sarah Palin questioned Republican presidential candidate John McCain’s decision to abandon efforts to win Michigan, a campaign move she only learned about Friday morning when she read it in the newspapers.
In an interview with Fox News Channel Friday, the Alaska governor said she was disappointed that the McCain campaign decided to stop competing in Michigan. In an indication that the vice presidential candidate had not been part of the decision, she said she had “read that this morning and I fired off a quick e-mail” questioning the move.


Im kind of suprised McCain would make a decision like that and not even take the time to consult his VP nominee.

It kind of comes across like he dont value her input very much either, if he cant even take the time to consult her, and she has to find out on Fox.

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By moineau, October 3, 2008 at 5:02 pm Link to this comment

sorry if i seem to be repeating myself here, but what about those “notes”? i hear commentators today saying, “this was a moment when she didn’t look at her notes much” etc, but wait! is it usual for people to bring notes into a debate. she never wrote anything down, she was reviewing notes that she brought in, prepared notes! that’s why it she was “successful”: she was reading a type of teleprompter in the form of notes! anyone else agree that this smells in terms of debate? is that why the rules are secret? you can bring crib-notes?

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By PatrickHenry, October 3, 2008 at 4:52 pm Link to this comment

I wondered why they called her Caribou barbie.

Now I know.

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By Louise, October 3, 2008 at 4:47 pm Link to this comment


“Rush Limbaugh said today that McCain believes that the race will be won in the last 72 hours and that he would probably have a “surprise” for the electorate at that time.”


Whatever can that be?

Well one thing for sure ... if anything happens to Obama, we know who to blame ... McCain. I mean the guys given us a heads up right? I wonder, does captain flab actually believe if the American people find themselves trapped in another four years of horror, AKA republican dictatorship they’re going to take it lying down?

Saving pennies to join the march!

Lets play gotcha Sarah!

“In Thursday’s debate, Palin said she had advocated the state divest from Sudan. “When I and others in the legislature found out that we had some millions of dollars [of Permanent Fund investments] in Sudan, we called for divestment through legislation of those dollars,” Palin said.”
Sounds good, but that’s not quite what happened.

“The [Palin] administration killed our bill,” said Alaska state representative Les Gara, D-Anchorage. Gara and state Rep. Bob Lynn, R-Anchorage, co-sponsored a resolution early this year to force the Alaska Permanent Fund – a $40 billion investment fund, a portion of whose dividends are distributed annually to state residents – to divest millions of dollars in holdings tied to the Sudanese government.”

“I walked out of that hearing livid,” Gara recalled of the February meeting. Because of the Palin administration’s opposition to the bill, “We could not get a vote in that committee,” he explained. At no point did Palin come out in support of the effort, Gara said.”

And then there’s Sarahs economic expertise ...

“... there is currently a loophole in federal bankruptcy law that allows John McCain to protect his second through seventh homes and yachts and planes if he were to declare bankruptcy, but doesn’t allow you and me to save our primary residence that we live in.  Barack Obama has called for closing this loophole, Joe Biden has called for closing this loophole, and John McCain has defended it to benefit his banker buddies.”

“When Senator Biden called for bankruptcy shelter and suggested that Governor Palin likely opposed those protections, Gwen Ifill asked, “Governor Palin, is that so?” The Governor responded, “That is not so.”

“Delicious.  The ABC story includes the always-enjoyable line, “The McCain campaign confirms to ABC News that Palin misstated McCain’s position.”
“This set up the real punchline in this story, which perfectly encapsulates not only how ignorant, but how tightly controlled by McCain operatives Palin is and will be as Vice President.”

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By nobozos, October 3, 2008 at 4:47 pm Link to this comment

Mr. Boyarsky: You are wrong!

For those of us wanting to know what the candidates know, Joe Biden was anything but boring. This wasn’t (unfortunately for Palin) a beauty contest with baton twirling, it was a forum for Americans to gauge the readiness of these candidates to deal with foreign leaders, advise the president, or take over the presidency if necessary.

Joe Biden wasn’t, as you put it, “better prepared”. Joe Biden knows his shit. Sarah Palin knows shinola.

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By Louise, October 3, 2008 at 4:40 pm Link to this comment

David Macaray, October 3 at 1:09 pm #

“I’m a loyal Democrat and liberal activist; that said, I felt that the debate was won by that grinning, evangelical hillbilly from Alaska.”


The conservatives bought the “lovable idiot” performance when it was Bush, but it wont work this time.

Daisy May belongs in the cartoons, along with Lil Abner. Maybe up in the far North they believe she’s a real person. But not in them thar hills.

Conservative women for the most part secretly believe their husbands aren’t to bright, so Bush was OK. But they in no way will accept being labled stupid themselves! 

Right now, all over this country they are scared shitless the family income will evaporate. And unlike their husbands, they remember who’s been in charge the last several years!

And right now they are shaking their heads and mumbling to themselves ... “No way am I going to accept being labled a stupid smiling air-head, just because Palin is. I am not that stupid!”

Sarah Palin is turning off republican women faster than a good beating. She is just one more abuse to their dignity. They’re sick of playing the role of smiling bimbo, so they’ll quietly revolt and vote Obama.

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By calamitygeorge, October 3, 2008 at 3:50 pm Link to this comment

For all Gov. Palin’s well-rehearsed touting of her empathy with “Joe Six-Pack” and family, it was her opponent on the debate platform who made it real.

Speaking eloquently about coping with his own family tragedy, Sen. Biden briefly struggled with his emotions. In her response, Palin ignored this most human moment of the debate, blithely turning back to her talking points when she could have shown real empathy.

In a smart analysis on the AScribe Newswire, movement experts Karen Kohn Bradley and Karen Studd call it a “stunning moment” when “millions of viewers understood the role of a leader: to take one’s own struggles and challenges and to relate wisdom gained to the situations at hand.”

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By Sepharad, October 3, 2008 at 3:40 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Hey, everyone, it’s not over till it’s over.

Biden was absolutely brilliant in handling Palin and I think put to rest anyone’s notion that he is not disciplined. And anyone listening carefully could have heard him perfectly fillet all the lies she told, but he wasn’t grandstanding on anything. He also conveyed an accurate sense of his workingclass origins and what it’s like to sit around worrying if your kid will make it (in his case literally, as in surviving) and worrying about the next mortgage or college payment. He did absolutely everything he COULD have done, given the set up, and never overplayed his hand. (To me, that was absolutely not boring.)

BUT Palin proved she’s better at memorizing talking points and pargraphs than she is at meaningful interviews, which has unfortunately set off a lot of sympathy for her. Lurking around the produce store today, (oldtime sneaky journalist’s ploy), talking with and listening to women at the free coffee stand, I was amazed to hear as much support for her—and possibly the whole damned ticket—coming out of otherwise sensible women’s mouths. Some of the women are very casual acquaintances, some strangers that I’ve seen before. (None of them are close friends, friends, or people I know through ACLU, Hillel or other activist-like groups. This is a small town about an hour and a half north of the Golden Gate Bridge. Middle-middle class at this particular store. Mix of Christians, two Buddhists and lots of New Agers.)

A couple women who had been for Hillary were convinced that Sarah was GOOD ENOUGH to make up for the fact that Hills wasn’t going to make it this year, and that McCain is not much different than Obama in terms of Wall Street backers. To see what would happen, I threw out my notion (as a former Hillary champion) that Palin as a substitute for Hillary was insulting and offensive, that if not Hillary women deserved to be represented on the ticket by someone who can actually think, respond to probing questions, understands national and internatoinal politics and doesn’t keep winking and throwing in “betcha” to endear herself. That went nowhere. The reaction was more like “Oh let’s give her a chance!”

Some of the other women felt that the media were so against Palin that they should be taught a lesson.

Others said they were terribly impressed by her positivism and thought that would outweigh her lack of experience because Americans needed some hope to cling to if they were going to get through this situation and were tired of hearing about all the problems.   

One woman complimented Palin for being fair-minded about the possible causes for global warming even though she herself believed it was manmade, and that Palin was aware of cyclical variations proved she actually knew a lot more about the issues and science than she gets credit for.df

There was more but it was depressing enough to listen to let alone rehash here. I’m just saying, nobody can relax yet. Whatever you’ve been doing for the Obama ticket do more for it, and try to talk to more women.

I will be so glad when this damned election is over )as long as the Republicans don’t win.)

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By troublesum, October 3, 2008 at 3:23 pm Link to this comment

Rush Limbaugh said today that McCain believes that the race will be won in the last 72 hours and that he would probably have a “surprise” for the electorate at that time.  This sounds more like Rove than McCain to me.  Rove was well known in Texas politics for winning elections by making bogus charges against his candidate’s opponent in the last few days of the race, which didn’t give the guy time to respond before election day.  For instance, in his last book, Al Franken wrote about a judicial election in Texas in which a rumor was spread about the judge Rove’s candidate was running against.  The rumor being that the judge had had sexual relations with the boys in a home for abused children.  The judge was a member of the board of directors of the home which gave the rumor some plausibility.  Of course the man was completely innocent but he lost the race.  I think they may have something in the works for Obama along these lines.

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By Shenonymous, October 3, 2008 at 3:07 pm Link to this comment

My apologies, two posts of the same content.  Probably some questionable language???  Naw…couldn’t be that.  But I thought it hadn’t posted so redid it.  Almost did it a third time!  Ooops.  Oh well, life happens.

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By Shenonymous, October 3, 2008 at 3:00 pm Link to this comment

My precocious nephew has a view that I agree with:  Palin held her own despite the odds. She was well coached and stuck to her outline. This fact made it a personal win for her but not necessarily her ticket.  She showed about as well as anyone could have expected. This was a positive outcome for our country. There can be no “she was bullied” or “cheated” crying. If she continued with the stammering, incoherent answers we would have a f**king whole week of listening to the radio hosts and Fox anchors making excuses.  She appeared to understand the questions but simply did not have good answers. (Yes she avoided a couple too!)  She got beat on the issues. It doesn’t get better than that.

Biden did just great. He was under control and had pointed counters for everything she threw his way. Does he have a mind for detail or what? Damn it, he should have been the candidate! I said it before, the Democratic ticket is upside down. But this is the way it is and I am happy with it.  There was one thing Biden should have said. When Palin kept insisting that McCain was a maverick, worked across the aisle and opposed Bush, Joe should have asked “Well why then is John McCain still a Republican?” Would she have shit her pants or what?  Maybe Barack should ask that question?  They both didn’t tell the whole truth, Palin less than Biden, check out
It was a good night. Biden has been acknowledged as having won. Palin did just good enough to allow her to remain governor of “up there”. Christ, could she just name the state? I heard someone today say: “Palin still thinks Hawaii is in a little box off the coast of Texas like you see on maps!” And is there a single Republican that doesn’t pronounce it “nu-cue-ler”? That must be part of the “no Republican left behind” program. “We’ll all pronounce it wrong so that the President doesn’t feel bad!”

She spat out her memorized lines despite them having no relation to the question at hand. Her supporters will totally ignore that. Yes they’re stupid and as songwriting hero Jimmy Buffett once wrote: “Evolution can be mean, there’s no ‘dumb ass’ vaccine.”

I wished that Biden would have hinted that under an Obama presidency at some point we will not be dumping any more money into the black hole that is Iraq.  Why can’t they come out and tell the truth that no matter when we get out of there it will go back to them killing each other?  It’s in their f*cking book! They don’t go to heaven by playing nice with each other. What’s so secretive about that?  McCain says he understands the distinctions between Sunnis and Shiites, well then challenge him on that. If we leave and that happens it is not a “loss”. It is a huge f*ck up that we caused by taking down the bast**d that was barely holding the whole clusterf*ck together with tyranny.  And we chose him and supported him in the first place!!!  Those jolly family photos with Hussein and Rumsfeld come immediately to mind. Anyways, it will disintegrate into chaos no matter when we leave and that is the truth nobody dares speak.  Such were those words, well…most of them anyway, of my very smart but pottymouth nephew.  You can tell which one’s weren’t.

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By Margaret Currey, October 3, 2008 at 3:00 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Palin did not fall flat on her face but she did not answer the questions that Gwen asked, that is what a debate is what she delivered was a speech with a few of the questions answered, what was she doing in Arizona while she was studying debating told not to answer only the easy questions, all I heard from her was the Republician platform of lies, half lies and taking facts out of context.

Biden had little to work with, but he was a gentleman and still won the debate.

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By Shenonymous, October 3, 2008 at 2:57 pm Link to this comment

My precocious nephew has a view that I agree with:  Palin held her own despite the odds. She was well coached and stuck to her outline. This fact made it a personal win for her but not necessarily her ticket.  She showed about as well as anyone could have expected. This was a positive outcome for our country. There can be no “she was bullied” or “cheated” crying. If she continued with the stammering, incoherent answers we would have a f**king whole week of listening to the radio hosts and Fox anchors making excuses.  She appeared to understand the questions but simply did not have good answers. (Yes she avoided a couple too!)  She got beat on the issues. It doesn’t get better than that.

Biden did just great. He was under control and had pointed counters for everything she threw his way. Does he have a mind for detail or what? Damn it, he should have been the candidate! I said it before, the Democratic ticket is upside down. But this is the way it is and I am happy with it.  There was one thing Biden should have said. When Palin kept insisting that McCain was a maverick, worked across the aisle and opposed Bush, Joe should have asked “Well why then is John McCain still a Republican?” Would she have shit her pants or what?  Maybe Barack should ask that question?  They both didn’t tell the whole truth, Palin less than Biden, check out
It was a good night. Biden has been acknowledged as having won. Palin did just good enough to allow her to remain governor of “up there”.  Jeezus Kereyest, could she just name the state?  I heard someone today say: “Palin still thinks Hawaii is in a little box off the coast of Texas like you see on maps!” And is there a single Republican that doesn’t pronounce it “nu-cue-ler”? That must be part of the “no Republican left behind” program. “We’ll all pronounce it wrong so that the President doesn’t feel bad!”

She spat out her memorized lines despite them having no relation to the question at hand. Her supporters will totally ignore that. Yes they’re stupid and as songwriting hero Jimmy Buffett once wrote: “Evolution can be mean, there’s no ‘dumb ass’ vaccine.”

I would have been happier had Biden hinted at when we would not be dumping any more money into the black hole that is Iraq.  Why can’t they come out and tell the trooth that no matter when we get out of there it will go back to them killing each other?  It’s in their f*cking book! They don’t go to heaven by playing nice with each other. What’s so secretive about that?  McCain says he understands the distinctions between Sunnis and Shiites, well then challenge him on that. If we leave and that happens it is not a “loss”. It is a huge f*ck up that we caused by taking down the bastard that was barely holding the whole clusterf*ck together with tyranny.  And we chose him and supported him in the first place!!!  Those jolly family photos with Hussein and Rumsfeld come immediately to mind. Anyways, it will disintegrate into chaos no matter when we leave and that is the truth nobody dares speak.  Such were those words, well…most of them anyway, of my very smart nephew.  You can tell which pottymouth ones weren’t.  Well…maybe not.

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By peaceecho, October 3, 2008 at 2:46 pm Link to this comment

the t.v. spectacle last night was perfect.  the older guy spouting figures and outlining plans of action and the younger neophyte neocon was all like dissin’ the old dude and history, whatever!  her old dude is the bomb and the younger brother who is captain of the other team is like such a loser.
sarah palin is the epitome of the new model of politician.  she is attractive, folksy, has confidence, and appears to have very little intellectual curiosity.  one wonders how she spends the long winter months without picking up a book or magazine…that’s not quite fair but during the “debate” she was able to regurgitate talking points crammed into her pretty head by the campaign brain trust.  she gave us flavor, homespun charm, western “cazsh,” as airy as cotton candy.  she did not look presidential, or based on the current occupant,she looked very presidential.  palin is a republican, so she will not be an agent of positive change for the vast majority of u.s. citizens, and if her model of governance is sith lord cheney, americans beware, especially if some rove-like svengali stands behind the stuffed moose in the throneroom whispering unitary-executive-laced stage cues to the enthusiastic newbie veep. 

biden was in an odd situation.  he was there but was he engaged in the same activity as palin?  she acted as if biden or gwen ifill were mere distractions on her merry little joy ride through palinland.  truth be damned, annoying little facts have no power here. begone.  this is the modus operandi of the new political model on the republican runway.  some style, usually outdated with no substance.

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By Frank, October 3, 2008 at 2:45 pm Link to this comment

JBlack, are you actually clueless enough to think that an internet poll of visitors to a particular website like Drudge Report has any significance?  It is not scientific or representative of anything, dummy, except the political demographics of the visitors to that one website.

All the scientifically conducted national polls I have seen show Biden was the clear winner among debate watchers.

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By Leefeller, October 3, 2008 at 2:33 pm Link to this comment


Almost had to reach for the trusty old upchuck bucket last evening, but thank you for not launching into the your overwhelming harpy speech mode. Even though some people believe you are a constitutional scholar and even though you informed us you are a Maverick, ” just like John McCain”, some of us have another name for you, no it is not blinky or winky. (by the way, isn’t that your kids names?)

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By moineau, October 3, 2008 at 2:30 pm Link to this comment

some questions: she was often shown looking down at the podium, grinning. grinning at what she heard from joe? grinning from what she heard from someone else? where did all that note reading come from? were they allowed to bring notes in? ‘cause i sure never saw her write anything down.

of course, the agreement between the two parties has been kept secret this year, although many organizations have called for it to be published. seems odd that she was always looking down at the podium while joe was speaking… she was reading or listening, that much was clear.

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By Caryl S. Foster, October 3, 2008 at 2:22 pm Link to this comment

Bottom Line:

If America’s choice is between Governor Palin and Tina Fey to step up and serve as President of the United States, either would likely serve as well as the other.

If America’s choice is between Governor Palin and Senator Biden to step up and serve as President of the United States, give America Senator Biden everytime.

If the choice is between Governor Palin and any other Joe Six-Pack she appeals to,then long live Senator John McCain as the President of the United States.

Accordingly, if anyone in America today can say with a straight face that they can visualize Governor Palin as President of the United States, it follows that they can also visualize the Bridge to No Where actually being built.

Governor Palin…...The Bridge To No Where

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By David Macaray, October 3, 2008 at 2:09 pm Link to this comment

I’m a loyal Democrat and liberal activist; that said, I felt that the debate was won by that grinning, evangelical hillbilly from Alaska.  Not because she made the better arguments or because she was the more informed debater.  Rather it was because she scored the most points.  She continually zinged Biden with barbed one-liners, remarks that, given the sound-bite culture we live in, are apt to stay with the voter.  I was disappointed—-the same way I was disappointed when the movie Titanic beat LA Confidential for Best Picture.  Go figure.

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By Opening Eyes, October 3, 2008 at 1:51 pm Link to this comment

In the middle of the debate, when it was evidentthat Palin was outclassed, her voice quivered, but she got through that and picked up on her practiced lines.
It is sad the way the Republicans have dumbed down the electoral process.  The world is watching. 
Obama’s choice of Biden was brilliant.
McCain’s choice of Palin was a bad gamble at best.
“Tell me it ain’t so, John” is what Palin should be saying. 
It was interesting to hear how she often she agreed wit Democrats. 
As several debate analyzers said, she helped herself, but not McCain.  Joe helped Obamma, but showed why he was so important to the ticket.

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By Spev Dvinko, October 3, 2008 at 12:55 pm Link to this comment

If Palin needs folks like yourself to run around doing damage control by parsing words and inflecting facts, she’s in worse trouble than I thought.

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By BruSays, October 3, 2008 at 12:16 pm Link to this comment

I’m jumping in here without reading previous comments…

Biden was presidential, well-spoken, articulate, informed and human.

Palin was rehearsed, smarmy, uninformed, overly general and shallow.

The telling point, not just in the debate but the entire Republican “platform” was this: don’t pay attention to the causes, just follow us to the solution. Sorry, no dice. As Biden pointed out, you can’t find a solution to the problem unless you define the causes. The McCain/Palin ticket will have us ignore their records, ignore their past performance, ignore their support of those who brought us 8 years of failure and instead, take a LEAP of faith and believe they’re the ticket for change.

Don’t insult my intelligence, Sarah.

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By Leefeller, October 3, 2008 at 11:43 am Link to this comment

Boy, a real honest in the running third party sure would look good right now. After last nights debate, seems war is the only option.

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By WriterOnTheStorm, October 3, 2008 at 11:30 am Link to this comment

What a snoozefest. Biden was like a junkyard dog silenced by a shock collar, and Palin showed she could memorize talking points and regurgitate them with the irritatingly sunny delivery of a receptionist with a pay raise. The entire debate was a bridge to nowhere. The most amusing aspect was watching the response-o-meter on CNN. Those “undecided” voters are a scream. Positive reactions to both candidates on the same subject. Calling these people undecided is a laugh, they’re simply confused.

In perhaps the most appalling moment of the evening, Palin actually used the term American Exceptionalism like it was a good thing. If you’re not sure why this is bad, you should take a look at this interview:

And please, can somebody explain to me why the Obama camp is letting McCain get away with conflating the Iraq war and the surge?

Why don’t the dems correct this assertion that the surge is working? There is a government in place that has aligned itself with our enemy du jour Iran. The Sunni and the Shia leaders are being paid off to keep a fragile peace that will clearly break down once we’re gone and/or the bribes stop coming. And lastly, the Kurds have established a de facto separate state which neither the Sunnis, the Shias, nor the Turks will let stand. Napalm smells a lot more like victory than this does. And yet McCain is so proud of this progress that he wants to export the whole budget-busting fiasco to Afghanistan.


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By August West, October 3, 2008 at 11:07 am Link to this comment

Palin sounded like she was coached by Patches O’Hoolihan on the five “D’s” of Dodgeball: Dodge, Duck, Dip, Dive and Dodge.

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By Big B, October 3, 2008 at 10:56 am Link to this comment

I am from Pittsburgh PA. I know Joe Sixpack, Joe Sixpack is a friend of mine, and Gov Sarah is no Joe Sixpack!(well she could be, but she would need to hike up that skirt a little, and tease that hair a little higher into what we call a “fe-mullitt”)

After reading the witty reparte’ of the day one thing has become apparent, there are actually Dick Cheney apologists out there in TV land!
Think about this for a second, when you are being herded into the labor camp for liberals, whome do you want to see at the window of the kommandants office, Dick Cheney or Sarah Palin?(cause Col Klink ain’t home)
Cheney has already proven to be the Major Heydrich of his time, but just look at Sarah and tell me she wouldn’t be laughing as the car battery was hooked up to your testicles.
If these profiles seem little over the top, keep this in mind, WE ARE THE COUNTRY THAT OPENLY AND GLEEFULLY TORTURES PEOPLE NOW! And wing nuts like governor Sarah are just the kind of idiots to keep the meat grinder humming, you know, for God and country.
Who would have ever thought that when an election was stolen in 2000 that a dimwitted governor of a backward state would lead us down the slimey death spiral that we are in today?

That is why we should fear Sarah and her skirt chasing,over the hill running mate.

By the way, I never thought i would ever see someone make Joe Biden look like a friggen genius.
Never underestimate the power of Gov Sarah.

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By Russian Paul, October 3, 2008 at 10:38 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I cannot understand how the media thinks Palin did well. She ignored all the questions and instead chose to tell lie after lie. At one point she even said, “I may not answer the question that you or the moderator may want to hear…”
Well that’s what you are supposed to do in a debate! Joe Biden may be a hack, but he was brilliant next to Palin. She is really targeting the lowest common denominator…and unfortunately in this idiocracy it might end up working.

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By Alan, October 3, 2008 at 10:38 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Well the ‘debate’ between Charlie McCarthy
and Howdy Doody went more or less as portrayed in the
Debate Premonition advanced before it.
Ifill moderated a salvage operation aimed
at shoring up McCain’s dummy.
By all rights, by the facts, the instincts,
the soupcons and everything else
all signs point to an Obama win in this
election.  If instead we see another
Florida/Ohio scenario, well that will
be the last nail in the coffin of democracy in America.

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By Caryl S. Foster, October 3, 2008 at 10:18 am Link to this comment

Though also Governor Palin did not fall on her face Thursday, also she did not prove to any sensible person that she is ready also to serve as the President of the United States if unfortunately though it became necessary.

Also though I will give her credit for topping expectations though those expectations were low also to begin with.

Governor Palin may have teachers in her family and clearly had great teachers prepping her for this debate. But neither her family nor her debate preppers have taught her proper and coherent sentence structure nearly as well as they have apparently taught her how to wink while evading answering a question and when answering how to do so without substance.

At any rate, Governor Palin accomplished her most urgent mission last night of not immediately pulling the plug on the life support machine which is barely sustaining the McCain/Palin campaign. And she definitely allowed the conservative republican base to exhale in brief relief after holding their collective breath for the last two weeks.

But the reality is that the growing momentum favoring the Obama/Biden campaign remains unimpeded and the fact is that Senator Biden, as did Senator Obama last Friday, clearly won Thursday’s debate.


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By L.D. Freitas, October 3, 2008 at 9:30 am Link to this comment
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Palin trying to come across as caring for “Joe Six-Pack:” what a farce! She’s a Repugnantcan, for crissakes!  Repugnantcans are so-called free marketeers who don’t want ANY regulation on business, allowing for fraud, ripping off the taxpayer/consumer, and making the rich richer, the poor poorer, and the middle class disappears.  It’s that simple, and notice that Palin sneaked in that remark about those who only can afford the $100,000 house wanting to buy the $300,000 house.  The fradulent mortgage brokers and pirating banks have duped people into buying homes by offering phony low monthly payments, and Palin showed her true deregulatory colors!

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By Leefeller, October 3, 2008 at 9:29 am Link to this comment

Linda S.

You addressed only the Cheney part of my post, I find your selective reading about the same as your forgetting what you posted,  interesting.  I was not referring to the withholding of documents, but the constant stream of lies coming from the White House with the premise governor Palin the Scholar Maverick (your and her words) could fill the void, without even missing a lie.

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By Inherit The Wind, October 3, 2008 at 9:22 am Link to this comment

And Obama’s taxes on numerous corporations and small business is not a tax on all consumers? You really mean to say that those taxes will NOT be passed on to Jane and Joe consumer? That each business will just eat those cuts in profit? What planet are you from, Windy one?

Take a course in basic microeconomics!  They don’t pass on tax increases to the consumer any more than they pass on tax DECREASES! Yeah, when Good ol’ boy George gave out those insanely irresponsible tax cuts all our prices went down, right?  Is that why Gas is DOWN to $3.50/gallon, and milk is $4/gallon and eggs are $3.50/dozen?  Because prices went down????  Get your head out of your…hole in the ground!

Price is controlled by that famous old concept you guys like to quote “Supply and Demand” and a slightly more complicated concept: elasticity of supply and elasticity of demand.  If demand is elastic, any company that raises prices will see its sales drop dramatically.  If demand is INelastic, any company that drops its prices will receive almost no increase in sales.

So…if demand is elastic and the company’s tax burden increases, passing on that tax increase will drive their sales through the floor.  So…the company will either absorb most, if not all of the tax increase, or go out of business.  But cigarette companies don’t mind tax increases.  If they have to add $1/pack, their demand won’t drop much. Why? Cigarette smokers, being addicted, will pay whatever they have to in order to consume the same amount—VERY INelastic demand curve there!

Without going through ALL the variations of elasticity of supply and demand, THAT is what controls prices.  That is why tax increases can only PARTIALLY be passed on to consumers, and why tax DECREASES rarely trickle down to us.

So…I think the one who needs to do the research, especially HISTORICAL research on pricing trends, is not me.

Sorry to be so WINDY!  (not really.  I actually don’t give shit)

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By ron hansing, October 3, 2008 at 9:21 am Link to this comment
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I will take Palin any day over Biden.

Biden voted to repeal the glass seagull act in 1999. the final vote was 90-8 and in the house, 365-56. and clinton signed it.

And yet he blasts the republicans for the financial crisis.

That’s the problem in a nutshell, failure to be accountable and responsible.

Both parties (Congress) are the real danger to American Democracy.

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By Kwaayesnama, October 3, 2008 at 9:08 am Link to this comment

Last night my Joe 12 pack said that this nation needs more then a Sarah 6 pack to save this nation.

He said what we need is a sober intellectual person to get us out of the mess we are in at this time.

Now if Sarah Palin wants to come over and have a few beers with us she’s welcome. But our vote will be going to the two intellectual boring men, sorry.

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By felicity, October 3, 2008 at 9:06 am Link to this comment

You people are wrong.  There wasn’t anything in her ear but there was a key in her back and like any proper wind-up toy she performed as advertised - so we can’t get our money back.

Actually I kinda felt sorry for her. On the other hand, as the minutes ticked painfully by I felt more and more revulsion for McCain.

No matter the mental or moral mettle of Mrs. Palin, anyone having to defend, let alone promote the likes of McCain needs all the sympathy we can give her.

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By Stauffer, October 3, 2008 at 9:06 am Link to this comment

Yes, dear, here’s something original.  Take off your Ayn Rand blinders and cooly admit that good-ole boy, cowpile-kicker, Barbecue Bush and team has ruined America’s reputation, economy and privacy rights.  Isn’t Governor Palin just so cute, all giggles, winks and dentures?  You just want to squeeze something meaningful out of her.

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By thebeerdoctor, October 3, 2008 at 9:01 am Link to this comment

When asked why I did not watch the Vice Presidential debate, I simply stated that I don’t watch television shows I do not care for. Governor Palin? There is not much there accept she gives the label “Joe six pack” a bad name.
Senator Biden? The veteran Senator has a lot to answer for; especially his architectural hand in the crafting of the drug war, his total cave-in to the American Israeli lobby (yes that is right Fadel), and of course his bow down to the MNBA corporation, in the guise of bankruptcy reform.
It was a bad television night. The Chicago Cubs got rocked by the Dodgers. Perhaps those first two games at home, should have been played during the day. #10 ranked University of South Florida was toppled by Pittsburgh in college football. The Biden-Palin Sideshow, was exactly that.

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By Leefeller, October 3, 2008 at 8:57 am Link to this comment

Linda S.:

Bastardizing words like scholar and Maverick do little for credibility, especially when the words are used in a political context, completely out of the realm of the real definitions.

Even more so, when the person doing the touting is of themselves as Palin did by called herself a Maverick,  smacks of so much self absorbing full of ones self B.S., which is worthy of contempt instead of awe and respect. Your scholar comment was perceived in the same light, the only difference it sounded like it was coming from her Mom.

It seems you believe Vice President Cheney is the cats meow, maybe between your opinion and maybe his wife, we know Cheney never cut down a cherry tree.

You mentioned lies, like they are important to you, yet we have had a White House for eight years were truth has been hidden from view, so now if they told the truth, no-one would ever believe them, we may see this happening with the handout, bailout.  Palin without missing a beat could fill in at the White House for truth does not seem to be an option with her either. Would you agree, not telling the truth is a lie, or do we go into the degree thing again?

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By jake3988, October 3, 2008 at 8:50 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I think the most telling thing the whole debate was when they asked Biden about what he’d do in the middle east.  He launched into at least a 4 or 5 minute-long exact detailed plan of what they would do.

Palin followed that up with a 60 second speech on being a maverick but laid exactly zero details down.

Yeah, you’re a maverick.  We get it.  Now tell us what you’re maverick about.  Oh, you can’t?  Because you aren’t a maverick?  That’s what I thought.

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By Inherit The Wind, October 3, 2008 at 8:33 am Link to this comment

Linda S.
First off, McCain/Palin and the dittoheads keep saying Obama’s going to raise taxes on ordinary people.  Lie.  Obama’s plan is to CUT taxes for people making less than $250,000.  Of course, when you own 6, er 7, um 8 houses and 13 cars $250,000 seems like a pittance.

Meanwhile McCain’s healthcare plan is to RAISE taxes on businesses by taxing the healthcare payments, thus forcing many companies to stop providing H/C and forcing their employees to go out and buy it themselves…Without market power, you pay a premium.  This is basic capitalism.  You want a bar of soap? Pay top dollar! But if Wal-Mart buys 20 million bars of soap, they pay less-a LOT less.

So…you will see your H/C costs move from your employer to you.  And you’ll see the rates go through the roof because of the loss of buying power.  Might as well be a tax increase.

As for “voting against the troops”...This has been the BIGGEST piece of Bullshit the WH has thrown out—so disgusting it merits impeachment.  What does “voted against the troops” mean when it applies to Democrats? It means they voted against expansion of the War!  But who was it who cut funding for veterans?  Not the Democrats! Who was it who wouldn’t fund proper armor for the troops? Not the Democrats: “You fight with the army you have” ‘Member that rotten egg?

Did McCain cave and vote to allow torture of prisoners?  You bet he did, a man who had been tortured!

The Constitution provides NO authority for the VP to rule the Senate.  It just says he/she “presides”.  The only “Constitutional Scholars” that agree it gives Cheney dictatorial powers are the same ones who say Cheney can claim he’s got executive privilege, but also isn’t part of the executive branch.  The same TRAITORS who invented the “Unitary Presidency” to put President Bush beyond the reach of the Law! 

Lies? Your Ms. Palin can’t even keep her lies straight…in one breath she’s going to regulate the financial businesses but deregulate businesses….?????????

What alternate Fox Noise universe do you come from?

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By bilejones, October 3, 2008 at 8:15 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Why anybody would want to compare themselves to the mass-murdering war criminal Trueman is beyond me.

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By Stauffer, October 3, 2008 at 8:13 am Link to this comment

Gosh, Linda S, wipe the froth off your mouth.  At this point, nobody wants to hear a word about Cheney; so, put away your Constitution and stop evading the issue.  Leefeller hit the mark.  McCain and Palin have wrapped themselves in Obama’s blanket of Change, nervously noting that the only way to divest themselves from Bush is to appear different.  Biden brought that house of cards down strongly.  “McCain is no maverick.”  McCain is in lock-step with Bush, regarded by many as the worst President in American history.

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By Kashilinus, October 3, 2008 at 8:03 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Biden did precisely what was required in this overhyped encounter. For this guy, Sarah Palin’s performance invoked visions of a force fed goose, with the consequent mess that comes out the other end. Much noise, little substance.

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By Leefeller, October 3, 2008 at 7:53 am Link to this comment

Linda S,

More competent Constitutional scholar Palin, you Becha! wink, wink.

Yes a scholarly Maverick at that, we need her in the White House,  our nation will have a run on shopping carts and upchuck buckets.

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By Leefeller, October 3, 2008 at 7:41 am Link to this comment

Ignorance calling itself Mavericks, gives Mavericks everywhere a bad name.  Now, right wingers who call themselves Mavericks, give everyone everywhere who is ignorant a bad name.

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By thebeerdoctor, October 3, 2008 at 7:35 am Link to this comment

re: Linda S

The most important aspect of the Vice President’s legislative responsibilities, is what is historically referred to as “the half Vote”, meaning in the case of a tie in the Senate, the Vice-President can break the dead lock by casting the vote in the affirmative. A vote against legislation is not allowed, thus it is called a half vote.

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By Folktruther, October 3, 2008 at 7:33 am Link to this comment

The Debates were another illustration, if one is needed, that the historical function of most American elections is not to promote democracy, but to PREVENT it.  Political theater of this kind helps turn elections into competitive horse races or sports contents that OBSCURES crucial issues rather than illuminate them.

Not that the American people could judge what is to our long range interests in any event.  We are systematically miseducated, misinofmrmed and misentertained from childhood to identify with oppressive power rather than with the interests of the general population. 

These Debates are part of the media circus that entertains and distracts the population form the fact that BOTH candidates serve the interests of the plutocracy rather than the people.

Both candidates are for the fraudulent War on Terrorism, the bailout ripoff, and turning the US into a bipartisan police state, although none of these matters are discussed in an honest and general way. 

The one liners and sound bites distract from the fact that BOTH candidates are going to continue the Bushite policies that are driving the American people into the ground, and threatening the world with increased destruction.

And the most effective source for obscuring this fact is the pseudo-progressives that have infiltrated and led the progressive truth consnsus to adopt Conservative policies and truths.

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By moineau, October 3, 2008 at 7:14 am Link to this comment

there were so many times i wished biden would attack george bush and thus implicate mccain who voted to support his policies. there was no talk of the bush administration’s secrecy and noncooperation in congressional oversight. there was no deepening the discussion of gay marriage/civil rights. (ahmaninijad gives much the same answer as palin, tolerate them… as long as they stay in their place, in their homes!) there has yet been no discussion of human rights, torture or guantanamo.

and i’m certain it’s because of the bargain struck with the msm and two parties. the debates are an exercise in futility (and damn frustrating and boring too).

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By tomack, October 3, 2008 at 7:11 am Link to this comment

Theatre. Nothing more.

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By dihey, October 3, 2008 at 6:45 am Link to this comment

No surprise here. A woman who has participated in beauty pageants was trained in answering dumb questions with dumb answers while smiling all the time. Of course the morons of MSM do not understand this.

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By Inherit The Wind, October 3, 2008 at 6:42 am Link to this comment

So Palin was vague and used analogies, cliches, insults and winks to avoid dealing with any issue.  Plus the classic Lee Atwater/Karl Rove Big Lie.  You just keep repeating it and repeating it.  The only thing she left out was “I said ‘Thanks, but no thanks’.”  Remember that one?

I’m no fan of Joe Biden and I was annoyed that he missed her sly reference to using the VP chair to illegally control the Senate (which will, without a doubt, be more heavily Democratic).  Biden went into something boring about advising Obama.  THANKFULLY, brilliant Gwen Ifill caught it, and, when she saw Biden missed it, brought it back front and center.  And Biden slammed Palin for it—but he should have caught it.  If there was ANYTHING Ifill did that could be construed as biased, that was it.  But a journalist SHOULD pounce on a throwaway line that has vast implications for our Constitutional government.

Palin win?  Well, her bar was set SO low: Don’t drool, puke, cry, curse (came close on that one), or go into a total LSD-type stream of consciousness rant (She did a little of that but nothing like the Couric interview).  So, by that horrible standard, she “won”.  Did she silence her Conservative critics who were calling for her replacement?  Yes, probably, so that’s a “win”, too.

But how did independents score it?  Well, unless you listen to Matt Drudge or Fox Noise, they scored it a grand slam for Biden—a 20-40% margin.  Naturally, on Fox, 82% thought Palin won and “kicked Biden’s ass”.  But then, those folks live in an alternate universe and don’t recognize reality until they pay $5/gal for gas, lose their job, and default on their mortgage.  (But they blame “Lib’rals” for that anyway, despite their guys having been in charge for 8 years).

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By Jim Yell, October 3, 2008 at 6:27 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

What is most clear about John McCain and The GOP is they seem to think that the election is one of those TV survival shows, where shallow contestants full of ego and BS show just how shallow and false they can be.

If McCain had any respect for our country he would have used some standard of selection that included respect for the country and the voters. Sarah Palin reminds me of an advertisement for technical school in which the supposed applicant for a job keeps repeating when asked about her skills, “No, but I have a sparkling personality!” Some how I don’t think that is enough.

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By Daniel, October 3, 2008 at 6:14 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

You know that with the Republican ticket you are in for 4 more years of the same Bush’s policies, when the Republican V.P. candidate keeps referring to NUCULAR weapons and NUCULAR energy…

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By JimM, October 3, 2008 at 6:07 am Link to this comment

I am surprised she was not a nasty, vicious bitch as thought she’d be. I was wondering what she was hiding in back of her hair, as it seemed bunched in the center to conceal something.
Hey, if Bush can get away with it, why cant she.

Pull the string on the talking doll and it will recite several different phrases, sensible only by luck.

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By Dr. Knowitall, PhD, PhD, October 3, 2008 at 6:06 am Link to this comment

That tube going into her ear?  Just some extra plastic.

I don’t know about any of you but my biggest problem with Palin is that our system has allowed her to rise to this level of incompetency.  I never did put too much stock in the Peter Principle.  In fact, I think it’s a downright lie unless you find the right area of competency. I had a supervisor once who couldn’t administer his way out of a paper bag and I always wondered how he got so high up until I figured out that his competency was sitting at the computer all day pushing e-paper that said nothing useful. 

I just hope that this is the last we’ll see of her and her type-hockey mom, soccer mom, PTA, Joe Six Pack wife of the First Dude—and I hope the good people of that great state of Alaska, just within eyeshot of the evil Russian Empire wannabe redux, will say, “Thanks, but no thanks,” to her when she comes up for re-election and put her on the bridge to retirement.

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By Purple Girl, October 3, 2008 at 6:00 am Link to this comment

and We are All Aware it was THEIR from of Big gov’t which has Caused ALL our Problems (economically,constitutionally & internationally).They have Grown the federal Gov’t to monumental proportions..Not just real Agencies, but ALL the contracotrs who Get paid Under the Americna Taxpayers umbrella. They have invaded every aspect of our daily lives and Private choices and have created an Air of Utter hatred For US, We are no longer safe or Welcome Anywhere in the World!
Palin Tried it again last night ever so (not so subtly) shifting the blame for Corp Orgies on Too Much Gov’t! WTF???Granted there are many in gov’t who have laid US over the Table to serve at the Corps pleasure, One of which Tops her ticket!
TO ALL REAL OLD sCHOOL REPUBLICANS….Dems Don’t Want Be Gov’t Either! We want effective managerial abilities to help guide a TRUE free market and it’s opportunities to All AmericaNs (Not the Corps). Dems would LOVE to discuss Fiscal Responsiblity, limited and well thoughtout Foreign policy and intervention.Hell We Don’t even want to take away your Constitutional Right of gun Ownership-But let’s talk more about Auto’s and Semi Autos machine guns though Ah?
If You Are Not one of the Elite 400 in the Country, McCains (Cheney’s) neo Con party is Not working for’s time you face it ..You are part of the Foundation layer which they use to lay more layers ontop of to reach the Top…Stepping On your Back, Shoulders, and head to get themselves there,and leave you eating their shit! McCain works for people like his wife…$75,000 on a Credit in ONE MONTH! A $300,000 OUTFIT! Otherwise you are nothing but a higher ranking worker bee in the Labor Commodities Market, Then SOME.
watch as mac & his Wet nurse change the focus of the Economic collapse on Gov’t- Bush admin and Democrats. When in reality Mac started undermining the Econommy way back with Mr. Keating, and continues On with Phil & Wendy Gramm, Rick Davis and all th erest of the Speical corp interest Lobbists running his Campaign.

I am Very Proud of My Fellow Michiganders and those working so hard in the Obama campaign….WE RAN MAC (and his puppet masters) OUT OF OUR STATE!!!!!!GOOD RIDDANCE!Next Time we want to see any of you is when your are wearing Orange Jumpsuits and Shackles!
Side Note: Apparently Mac’s Supporters are as vindictive, prone to violent outbursts and Childishness as their Candidate…My “Obama’ Sign was mutilated and left as trash in the Bank Parking Lot, and I have yet to find where they disgarded my ‘Support the Troops ,End the War’ Lawn sign landed. That is behavior ‘Unbecoming’ of an American citizen and makes me wonder What country they are claiming to be putting First, What Rights& Freedoms are our military supposed to be dying to Protect and defend? Mine and my lawn Sign, or that of a Rebuker and Denier of Free Speech?

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By RightWing, October 3, 2008 at 5:55 am Link to this comment

Oh, and in 1999 Biden also voted for deregulation

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By omop, October 3, 2008 at 5:49 am Link to this comment

Cousin Sam who lives in the Ozarks a couple of hundred miles south of St. Louis and considers himself to be somewhat of a maverick opined after the debate that one can live with one maverick.

“If you get two, then you’ve got pandemoniunm”. Which basically translates thats one too many mavericks. Continuing, he remarked that, “having more than one maverick stand-outs can only work out in a place like Pettycoat Junction. Once you hit the big cities like DC everyone claims they’re mavericks. What Americans direly need is intelligent, honest and capable folks wanting to work for the benefit of all citizens”.

One last note about Cousin Sam he believes that whenever a politician claims to being a maverick that means he/she will always take credit for wins but never the losses.

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By Wily Trax, October 3, 2008 at 5:46 am Link to this comment

Looks like Tina Fey may get the weekend off.

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By jackpine savage, October 3, 2008 at 5:29 am Link to this comment

That wasn’t a debate…that was a moose and squirrel show. And Palin simply said the same canned answers to nearly every question, whether it had anything to do with the question or not.

Why even have a moderator?

I’ll give Biden this: he didn’t fall into any traps and attack her…which is what the Repubs were hoping for. But he did go out of his way to attack Bush, Cheney and McCain. In fact, i’d say that his statements on Cheney were the strongest i’ve heard yet from the Dems.

He did put his foot squarely into his own mouth a few times. But at least he didn’t spend the whole time batting his eyelashes.

She’s worse than Bush, and now we’ll see if the American people will elect G.W. Bush for a third time.

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By Greg Bacon, October 3, 2008 at 5:05 am Link to this comment

What Does Gov. Palin Have in Her Right Ear?

Posted by willyloman on October 3, 2008

by Scott Creighton

What was that running down into Sarah Palin’s right ear during the debate?

This photo was taken straight from CNN’s video on their breaking news website. It’s a screen-shot from their video of the debate.

There were very few moments where Palin’s right side was in view of the camera, but actually it can be seen from the straight on views as well. Here is the original screen-shot I took.

Even without zooming, you can clearly see something attached to her glasses and running into her right ear. At first I thought this might be a hearing aid of some sort, so I looked up other pictures of her to see if I could find one of her wearing a hearing aid. I couldn’t.

By all accounts, Sarah Palin surprised allot of people as she held her own in this debate. Is this why?

I have not touched up this shot at all. If anyone knows where I can find a picture of Gov. Palin wearing a hearing aid in the past, please let me know.

But this certainly looks like someone was whispering in Sarah’s ear during the debate.

Another question this brings up is why wouldn’t Biden say something about this? Is the election such a sham these days that he would sit by and say nothing?

And who will open up the bidding to be the first to nuke Iran?

“I promise to nuke Iran within my first month of taking office”

“I promise to nuke Iran within my first week”

“I promise to nuke Iran my FIRST day in office”

SOLD, to Caribou Barbie

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By Fahrenheit 451, October 3, 2008 at 4:29 am Link to this comment

First, it wasn’t a debate!  It was a question and answer moment.  The only striking thing to be observed was that Palin barely kept up with Biden.  She deflected many questions in spite of 2 weeks of intense coaching.  One cannot make up a life time of ignorance of the world at large in 2 weeks, 5 weeks or the 4 years of the elective office of President.  She still, and will always, fall short of V.P. credentials.  That became obvious tonight and nothing will change that fact.

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By MH in Florida, October 3, 2008 at 4:24 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Palin simply regurgitated the info/talking points that have been shoved down her throat this week.  It is obvious to me that she does not really know or understand the issues.  It would scare the s—-t out of me if she was any where near the White House.

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By Fadel Abdallah, October 3, 2008 at 4:13 am Link to this comment

Yes they delivered on the one issue of Israel. So, as the “pundits” here and on MS media are going to bore us to death with the question of who won the debate, this “pundit” affirms that the one and only winner is Israel.

What a repeated and boring political circus that has no elements of innovation or change in it! So, the new slogan for both parties on foreign policy should read, “The No-Change Surge You Can Count On!”

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By Parker Stanton, October 3, 2008 at 4:04 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Joe Biden, the once and future flatulent blowhard, the bagman upon whom Big Chemical and the credit card usurers can always rely. Votes to bail out Wall Street swindlers, but shuts off debt relief for the common citizen. What a guy. As for Sarah, she was happy in Alaska. She should not have been asked to revive the mummified remains of POW McCain.

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THE SNED's avatar

By THE SNED, October 3, 2008 at 3:56 am Link to this comment

To call these debates is a joke.
Try calling them a disgrace.

want to see who lied go to

They both did..but Palin’s lies were bigger.

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By Fadel Abdallah, October 3, 2008 at 3:53 am Link to this comment

And the real and only winner is ISRAEL! What a political circus!

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By Frank, October 3, 2008 at 3:20 am Link to this comment

The debate performances were pretty much what I expected and had hoped for, except that Biden was more restrained than usual actually got through gaffe-free, which was a minor surprise to me. Sarah Palin flubbed the name of our Afghanistan commanding general multiple times, but Biden didn’t call her out on it.

Biden remained civil and respectful, as we expect our Presidents to be. Palin was able to void making incoherent statements as she had in recent interviews, by not even trying to answer questions that were out of her depth. This time, she simply changed the subject each time, and retreated to the talking points she was more comfortable with.  I think Americans were paying attention, and this avoidance of several questions did not go unnoticed.

Call me a softie, but although I am a firm Obama supporter, I am glad Palin did not fold under the pressure and get humiliated, as some Democrats might have hoped for. It was not needed, and I am glad she maintained and perhaps restored some personal dignity, while at the same time not providing McCain with any real boost or turnaround as a result.

Biden clearly won on the issues and in demonstrating his fitness for the top position, which Boyarsky rightly stated is what the debate is really about. I think he served Obama well in showing diplomatic restraint (he was a gentleman) and in repeatedly putting the focus on McCain by tying him to Bush and pointing out McCains lack of clear policy distinctions to Bush.

Sarah Palin, in ‘holding her own’ and not imploding,  will take the focus of the campaign off of herself as a growing embarrassment to McCain, an the campaign focus will return to the economy, where Obama is well positioned to carry his lead in the polls right through to Nov 4th.

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