we are borrowing 700 billion to give the mob just so they can lend it back to us
does that make sense except the the mob?

A quick poll around the block and I discover two really scary things. Few even know we are in a financial crisis. And those who do have decided paying attention is not an option because it upsets them.

So life goes on. I guess that’s a good thing.

Meanwhile republican supporters who are paying attention ... sorta ... have their villein. Completely unable to remember their guys, until a scant two years ago, controlled EVERYTHING, they blame those damn tax and spend liberals in congress for getting us into this mess.

And those damn “liberals” busy trying to preserve their delusion that they will control everything in just a few weeks are following the republican play-book. As usual.

[One has to wonder ... had they had the balls to impeach back when it might have slowed the fascists down, would it have prevented all of this?]

Meanwhile, the Rockerfellers and the Bushers and all the other fascist-lite phonies who never saw a poor mans pittance they didn’t covet, keep on keepin on.

Republican “leadership” responding to the mail from home [running thirty to one against a bail-out] have decided the problem is not enough De-regulation!  So obviously they are NOT READING those letters from home.

And their candidate needs to look good [now there’s a real challenge] so stalling and delaying and passing the ball back and forth over the heads of their constituents buys time ... until they can figure out a way to make it look like the balding knight bounced [slowly shuffled?] in and saved the day.

And everyone, EVERYONE is afraid to identify the real problems that threaten to collapse the economy.

A devalued dollar and an administration that having already looted the treasury now wants to set up a hedge fund for future looting.

But not to worry. All those $4 million dollar homes surrounding your humble $60,000 cottage are in foreclosure, and soon the “bail-out” package will make them yours!

Not ...

I guess I should worry about my savings, but I used the last of that the last time I bought groceries. Not sure what I’ll do next time the cupboards are bare.

Oh well, there’s one upside to this really downside. At least with no savings and a retirement account that’s evaporated and a job that went away and a soon to go house, most folks wont have to pay any taxes.

Hey you dim-witted repub supporters ... you got your wish ... no taxes!

Wow! I just thought of something. That puts the poor folks on an even keel with the rich folks, cause they don’t pay taxes either!

From Brasscheck:
“How the markets really work (from 2007)
How did these comedians see it coming
when financial reporters did not?”

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/187.html
Yes, it really is this bad

Another example of humor that is deadly accurate.

“I worked on Wall Street for a few years, elbow to elbow with “top” investment bankers.

It was one big casino with the saps in pensions funds and savings and loans (and us) being used to finance the game and cover the losses.”

Amazingly, this was recorded in 2007.

AND ~~~

“Spin.”

It was on - and then off - the Internet.

Now it’s back!

Get it while you can.

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/43.html

Here’s the deal…

It’s a film made about the 1992 presidential
election and it explains just about everything
that is going on now, 16 years later.

The film shows:

* viable candidates being eliminated by the news media
* politicians being fed slick answers by spin doctors
* hopelessly corrupt news reporters lying through
their cosmetically perfect teeth

The stars of the movie are Bush and Clinton.
No, not junior and Hilary. The other Bush and
Clinton show.  Bill and Sr.

Amazing film.”

A week passes, the sky has not fallen, but the Chancellor continues to pine for his blank check. Nowhere is there mention of a quid pro quo, no universal health care for all or boost in worker wages; there is no suspension of mortgage foreclosures. No guarantee of strict accountability over unelected money czar Paulsen, who will strip what little the workers of this country have left from them to finance one last five month greed orgy for the ruling class. The socialist solution is meeting unexpected opposition-the fascist wing doesn’t want it unless they get their share of the take, and the elitist Demos want to get some too, but under the table and in the shadows.

There is something drastically wrong when this is going on and the Proletariat are going about their business like lambs to the slaughter. There are a few protesters in New York Shitty but other than the usual suspects there are hardly any in DC. Where the working class should be showing up by the millions it is showing up by the hundreds. We need orderly, organized demonstrations in major cities. We will defeat ourselves if there is any violence but there need to be lines of workers and they need signs, they need to be seen, heard, and the message must be delivered.

The capitalist brainwash networks tell us ‘700 billion taxpayer dollars’ every few minutes. This is a sham, at stake is close to three trillion and rising. The con men that are clinging to the notion that capitalism is viable are simply trying to squeeze another drop from its last few breaths, it is done, and the only answer is a complete revamp of the government and economic system with a socialist paradigm. The New Deal was small change compared to the upheaval that will be needed as every major bank and mortgage institution will be insoluable without worker capital and all corporations will become subsidized by the workers.

This must begin with an immediate termination of foreclosures. Banks will renegotiate all loans for more favorable terms for the workers, reducing profits but securing the investment with real property. All futures speculation on the US markets will need to be terminated as well along with stock short sales. The days of buying without paying for something are over. We as a country need to become more like European socialist, parliamentary democracies that have centrally planned economies, capped individual wages, and socialized medical care, retirement and utilities. The anachronism that is the executive branch of our government will fade into a ceremonial position if this country puts its house in order properly in the aftermath of the capitalist collapse. War will be unnecessary as our geographical location in North America is isolated and neutrality in foreign affairs is essential; our militarism will end and we will no longer spend 20% more than the rest of the world combined to kill other human beings.

I am apprehensive that the beginning of the new age will be chaotic. The fascism that has marked the eight-year Reichstag have prepared me for deceit and dishonesty, willingness to steal my rights and livelihood with impunity. I still have faith that when the dust settles, a New Socialist Deal will emerge to salvage the American dream for my sons and their families.

Outraged,

I just discovered that Ralph Nader will be here in my area on Sunday. There was a very small flyer tucked into something else on a campus bulletin board. I reached for it to use a scratch paper to write down the details of another event, and saw that it was for this announcement that he would be here. (I have no idea why this wasn’t more widely circulated).

Anyway, just thought I’d let you know that I’m gonna try to attend, even though I don’t have the suggested donation. Maybe they’ll cut me some slack.

The economic crises we are facing is, en essence, a crises of ethics and morality.

I know in advance that those who have no standards for ethics or morality will attack this simple statement of mine. However, I am glad to have learned that, since economic crises reached its climax in the last few weeks, many deans of economic schools in the country have been talking about the need to teach economic ethics as an important component in business schools’ curricula.

Just another bloodless coup by the uber wealthy.  I’ll gladly join in if someone starts one a coup of our own.

Outraged,
Thanks for the moral support. It’s hard being an ‘ethicist’ these days, eh? I haven’t come across anything else particularly significant from Obama on this, at least not since I wrote earlier.
BUT, Louise posted something that confirmed what I was pretty much already thinking, in terms of what such a deal may or may not accomplish. So, I’ve posted an excerpt or so for jobart, as well as the link to the entire post.
•  “…“The petro-dollar that sort of runs the world is rapidly dropping in value. The money we all need to keep our lives and businesses running is dissapearing, and if we don’t do something to restore confidence in the dollar soon ... we will have a full blown depression!
And then this:
•  “..Without credit, banks and businesses fold. Without money there is no credit. And that’s when Wall Street panics and the Market crashes. So believe it or not, the crashing Market doesn’t cause the depression ... the collapsing source of money, ergo credit and loans does.”

So, that’s pretty much what I’d come to myself, in respect to whether or not it was really a ‘necessary’ bail out. I pretty much assumed it was a necessity, but unless they work it properly, it could also spell the end of America as we’ve known it.

Meantime, Chris Dodd it really ticked off, and so am I. Apparently they were close to something until that asshole McCain showed up.

Anyway, here’s the reference for the post from Louise

Re:Louise, September 25 at 9:10 pm

http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/20080925_bailout_agreement_misses_out_on_photo_op/

Re: Cyrena

Your comment: “And, neither McKinney nor Nader has enough of a base or the organizational set up to run the affairs of this country, especially now. We keep complaining about the advisers that Obama has, but does anyone have even a clue to who these others would bring on board to help them run this rotting mess?”

Now that’s getting your game on.  I agree, we DON’T know.  Best to be ready for anything.  Aside from that, integrity is paramount.  Be careful.  Take care and do what you, after all your hours of careful research and determined truth says you must.  This can never be wrong.  Sincerity is the undoing of ALL injustice.

1 of 2 re: jobart

“...I’d like to hear responses that can make me re-evaluate my “newly adopted” position. Cyrena, are you there?..”

Jobart,

I’m here.

I admit I had to laugh out loud at the last line, seeing as how I was hearing you loud and clear all the way through.

I can’t offer anything right now, until I’ve done a tad bit more research on what Obama has actually said.

I DO know that he appears to support the thing, but I haven’t heard everything he’s said on it, OR why we should bow to the fear mongering in progress, yet AGAIN!

Right now, the biggest issue I have with him and what he has or hasn’t said about this bail out, involves the very thing that Kulter points out here:

•  “..The administration’s version of the bailout legislation provides for review in Section 8, but the Catch-22 is that there is no review. The secretary’s “decisions” are to be “non-reviewable, committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.” The non-reviewable provision, along with its other purposes, allows the secretary unfettered, unchecked authority to enter into contracts “without regard to any other provision of law regarding public contracts.” Now we know the meaning of audacious…”

It’s beyond audacious. It’s like their ‘legalization’ of torture, and the Military Commissions Act. The violations of the Constitution in these unprecedented power grabs, (each one greater than the last) is what has me utterly floored, and THAT is what Obama should be howling about.

It’s no secret that I’ve never been as conflicted by OBAMA’S part in the FISA legislation as the rest of the gang is. That went down the way it went down. It’s the system, no matter how ugly it is. It’s also not a secret that my own largest issue with Obama is his seeming acceptance of the ‘war on terror.’ That should NOT be confused by any misinterpretation that I don’t recognize global terrorism to be a problem, and definitely a much larger problem since the Bush Terrorist started waging his phony wars that have killed or maimed millions.

Still, I know that Obama believes that we were attacked by ‘foreign’ terrorists on 9/11, and I think he should know better, and that’s the basis for his willingness to use force in Afghanistan/Pakistan, even though I don’t know where he stands now since a new political leadership has been installed in Pakistan. Still, I’m willing to cut him a tiny be of slack on that, only because we HAVE been the target of terrorists. I just want him to figure out WHY we have been, because it’s NOT about ‘Islamic Extremism.” It’s about Blowback. I think that recognition should be at the forefront.

Meantime, the discussion on the bail out is now multifold. Ralph Nader weighed in today on Democracy Now, (by phone of course, since he’s campaigning in PA) to first complain that nobody had even asked if it was necessary, and then to go on to say how it should be handled, (before answering his own inquiry on whether it was actually necessary). So, more straddling the fence from him as well. In fact, I don’t know how many of us who even have any in-depth knowledge of the economic system, (or free market dynamics) have any idea of whether or not it’s necessary. On MY end, credit for the average consumer has been totally unavailable for at least a year now. So I don’t know how it could become any worse if we DON’T do a deal.

That’s the kicker. I don’t know, and I don’t know who to trust that would know. Would there be a job loss if Wall Street if left bankrupt? Yeah, I think there would be. But then again, I think there will be ANYHOW!!! The economy has been shedding jobs like a dog sheds hair in the run-up to summer. And that’s been going on for ages.

TBC

2 of 2 re: jobart

So, how do we know that the bail out will even prevent these things? Remember the 2001/02 bail out of the airline industry after 9/11? (I think they got two) And what did that industry do? Well, by the time it was all over, they’ d shed about 50,000 jobs. And 6 years later? They’ve closed down even more. As a reminder, THAT industry was already ‘in trouble’ (especially the biggies of the time AA, UA and DL) and they were the ones that got most of the bail out dough, (AA got more than all the rest of them combined) and also the ones to lay off the most people, with ZERO retirement benefits. So what if the folks had been working for them their entire lives. In fact, THOSE were the ones to go first. And, didn’t we ‘bail out’ Enron as well? And what happened to all of those employees? They lost everything of course.

So, that’s where we’re at with it. First, is it absolutely necessary? Next, will it actually prevent all of these dire outcomes, because it damn sure hasn’t done that up to now? Will Americans be able to remain in their homes, and what about those who’ve already been forced into the streets? Will they be able to recoup anything, or at least get credit to buy or rent somewhere else? Hell, I can’t even finance a used mobile home! Those are all of the concerns, not to mention the biggest concern, which is allowing the Treasury unrestricted and unaccountable power over the whole damn thing! 

Now I don’t know if Obama has said anything yet about any of those questions either. I’m about to read an article from Alternet with an interesting title. “How Much Should Obama Lie?” (geeze…that’s what it’s come to). So, I’ll let ya know as things unfold. There’s no doubt that I’ve got my eyes and ears on him, but at the same time, there’s McCain, who’s been right smack dab in the middle of the disaster for decades…on the causation side. And, neither McKinny nor Nader has enough of a base or the organizational set up to run the affairs of this country, especially now. We keep complaining about the advisors that Obama has, but does anyone have even a clue to who these others would bring on board to help them run this rotting mess?

google gramm swaps: you will go to Mother Jones & see an article on this: and lo & behold this man is working for John McCain & could end up being the new treasurer of the USA; just exactly like Paulson was; just like the men who are the “advisers” re China have connections to large Corps there; but of course this is never ever “disclosed” to the people; nor is the fact that the USA has more wealth/poverty level than any other nation; that’s right folks; the boys at the top who accused Saddam Hussain of looting millions from their country: well, ours have done trillions & trillions & trillons; wonder how many we will catch in their little underground hidey holes just exactly like Hitler had: holding onto THEIR bags of $?? Folks: this is NOT the fault of the people like they would have you believe; it is the fault of people for being deceived. Some of us have been screaming for years: but just like infants’ formula which is full of toxins as well as their shampoo & clothes etc etc etc: the leaders who control the media (which is illegal by the way but so is every other thing that they do) point to CHINA; NOT; the problem folks with the infants formula belongs right here in the USA; at Congress & White House & politicians; the people of this country are for 1 purpose only: to fill their pocketbooks; no other country on the planet has done less for it’s people than the USA. and they blame or distract everyone by blaming someone else. They are extremely well versed in this.

I keep hearing that Gramm-swaps are responsible for the present financial mess.  What are these?

The meltdown begins. Within 6 months, this bailout will be a joke considering just how dire the situation truly is. Stop to consider the following.

1. 750 billion/yr trade inbalance.
2. 1.6 trillion & counting CC debt.
3. 3 Trillion for Iraq & Afghanistan
4. 612 million for defense
5. Ongoing 9.2 trillion US debt
6. Fannie Mae and Mac bailout could go to 5 trillion before it’s done. Betting pool is around 1.6 trillion.
7. Exploding Baby Boomer Healthcare/SS costs
8. The disappearing dollar. Only a matter of time when it loses it’s reserve status of buying oil in dollars. Once that’s done, it’s Weimar republic here we come.
9. Foreign money pays for the bailout. What’s the inevitable price tag for this largesse on the part of China, Japan and significant others?

Are we having fun here?
The bailout is a gift to the Fed with Paulson as cheerleader.
No doubt the GOP destroyed America with the Dems as facilitator.

The photo op is done, the scam lives on. The Keating Five member, taking a break from secret chemotherapy to dodge a lost debate and fly to the rescue of his master the Fuhrer in a smoke-filled DC room as the Chancellor blackmails both of the sellout parties in to perpetrate a politicization of his master theft plan for Wall St/Capital Hill. The rookie idealist, trapped, plays along, uncomfortable, surrounded by henchmen of the zipperjob fool who oversaw the deregulation in 1996 that helped this tree bear its poison fruit.
Back in the real world, we can breathe a sigh of relief that another day has passed with no deal in sight. The Reichstag may have run into a wall of opposition from both the worker and the Bourgoesie elite-my asshole congressman, a fascist GOP pal of $12 million bribe taker Duke Cunningham, whose office I have called collect twice a day for a week, assures me he is vibrantly opposed to any bailout plan. I tell them no deal without provisions attached for a national universal health insurance and raise of fed minimum wage to $12/hr, and boilerplate Wall St reform including immediate dismissal of all board members of every bank involved, both FMs, and a complete revamp of the Treasury departments and SEC along with criminal indictments. The lackeys tell me, every time, that FBI and ‘Injustice Dept’ is investigating Bear Stearns, AIG, and FMs for any violations now and that ‘soon’ there will be ‘hearings’ before Congress; that this is a bad time for national health insurance discussion but they will forward my inquiries, etc. They get the letters saying more of the same as I mail one every day, all different.

We face a test. By pulling the candidates in, the Fuhrer plays Pilate at this execution of the American worker. The ruling elite is determined to pick at the carcass of capitalism’s dead corpse, then steal the purse from the steel workers, health workers, data processors, construction workers, farmers, and service industry peons after scheming for decades to destroy their unions, civil rights, and ability to own a home and piece of their own destiny. Broke, the ruling junta is going to shove a trillion dollar, socialistic turnover of all bad debt to workers without their consent, while Wall St will not be cleaned up and a depression will continue. Out of office in 40 days, they do not care about the repercussions, and with huge individual wealth, the suits making this deal are out of touch with the working class they are holding hostage in this kidnapping.

If we must save the country we must be given an incentive. We are not able to pay for health care. Our wages are below the poverty line and purchasing power has declined by 15% for most working class families in the last three years. More homes are in foreclosure than at any time since the Depression because we were given fraudulent loans by banks trying to take advantage of workers and disposable income has dropped while we slaughter Iraqis in a Lie War for five years, spending the $trillion Wall St wants from us now, all paid by workers as the wealthiest 3% have gained more in 8 years than ever in the history of the country.

Workers need to take action on their own front. The days of $4 cappuccinos at the virus capitalist Starbucks are over and they must be closed down in favor of more utilitarian use of our limited resources. Times are going to be hard and we must be prepared to be tougher than the Bourgeoisie, more determined, willing to make sacrifices, to do without some of our creature comforts for the greater good. We need to watch less capitalist TV and read the works of Socialist writers such as Keynes and Marx and spend more time in community organization and grass-roots planning for the coming struggle. Prepare.

Leahy (D-Vt) worried about martial law?:
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2008/09/25-7

Christine Romans @ CNN makes a relevant point concerning the bailout.  Just as “troublesum” pointed out earlier, we are obviously paying more than these “investments” are worth.  Romans says that something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.  If no one is buying, your “wares” are worth zero dollars.  I’d forgotten about that aspect of the market, but yep… that’d be correct.  So what are the “investments” we’re buying worth if no one is willing to touch them.

In addition, she states that the $700 Billion, could pay for EVERY foreclosure and then some.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/09/25/dcl.romans.bailout.update.cnn

license to steal is the name of the book re Wall Street & they took their tips from what is done on Capitol Hill. They are busy paying for colleges for all illegals they have brought in; while denying simple benefits for all the military men/women; civil war in Mexico over the NAU; Nafta is hated by Canada; USA & Mexico as well; trillions of $ stole from citizens over criminal usury laws being ignored; & now the criminals want to take even more; Christian school graduates in Calif are denied College entrances per the ACLJ; also they are saying that preachers lips are to be SEALED: they cannot even TALK about the criminals; go see the ACLJ; http://www.thetip.org has lots of info: gotten away with whatever we want to do in the USA lets take it globally; we appoint the AG’s; the Dept of Justice; the Supreme Court judges; we are NEVER brought to “court” over all of our evil & devious deeds; THIS is what “spreading” democracy is all about folks! the USA has the WORST amount of poverty than any other country in this “land of opportunity” the wealthy take it all; lie to everyone; never fulfill a promise; & now if everyone everywhere would just stop paying taxes; there is so much $ they don’t even know where to PUT it all; but the Americans have never done anything at all; so PAULSON the SAME man who raised debt from $20b to $100b at Goldman Sachs; wants to PLEAD to americans for MORE $ while behind your backs they are bribing the heads of other countries to do what they do cuz they have gotten away with it for YEARS? and their $ are all in gold: the amero; both here & hidden away in off shore accounts shown them by politicians here; ever heard of the New World Order folks? it is HEADED UP by the USA Gov & Corps! They are WANTED for war crimes & so are the Clinton’s; aren’t we fed up enough with criminal politicians???????

Contact your senators and representatives.  Just enter your zip code in the “My Elected Officials” box, subsequent links will be provided.

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/home/

Why is Obama in favor of this “sweepstakes” giveaway…?  From CNN:

“Obama also pressed his position on the crisis plaguing Wall Street—and Main Street—to Clinton’s group.

“It’s outrageous that we find ourselves in a position where taxpayers bear the burden and the risk for greed and irresponsibility on Wall Street and in Washington,” he said. “But we also know that a failure to act would have grave consequences for the jobs, and savings, and retirement of the American people.”
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/25/campaign.wrap/?iref=mpstoryview

“Grave consequences”, isn’t that Paulsen’s line..?  The Kutler’s article quotes Paulsen as saying, “There’s a lot of blame to go around.” Then Obama’s talking point to the press was, “There’s much blame to go around.”  Hmmm… I smell a rat.  A whole family of rats, and you know how they multiply.
http://my.barackobama.com/page/invite/bolatestremarks/

Of course there’s McCain’s blathering,
“Lastly, the Arizona senator called for assurances that Wall Street executives involved in the problems would not benefit from them. To prove his point, he invoked his least favorite pet project—the so-called Bridge to Nowhere in Alaska. “I would rather build a bridge to nowhere–and put it square in the middle of Sedona, Ariz.–than take money from teachers and farmers and small-business owners to line the pockets of the Wall Street crowd that got us here in the first place,” he said to applause.”
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/09/25/mccain-bailout-money-cannot-go-into-black-hole/

Wasn’t McCain part of the Savings and Loan scandal…?  According to ProPublica, the savings and loan “sweepstakes” was $293.8 Billion in 2008 dollars.  This latest fiasco is definitely the big lottery draw at $700 Billion.  McCain is a lying felon and DOES deserve some of our public housing, read PRISON.  Don’t feel too bad, he’ll have lots of company, old chums, past “acquaintances”, and family. 
http://www.propublica.org/special/government-bailouts

Another BS talking point is “bipartisan”.  I have a better idea, be as partisan as you WANT, and instead let’s separate our “elected” official into three groups: crooks, liars and truth-tellers.  Whoever is left standing, we’ll give their advice careful consideration.

Are we supposed to label this ANOTHER “compromise”?  If we are…, WHAT DID OUR SIDE GET. (I mean… besides f**ked)  And why should we “compromise” our own money..!?

But, let’s not forget that this proposal was submitted to the banking committee for its approval.

This is business, folks.  Wall St. has knowingly been running rough-shod over reasonable, prudent business practices for a long time. They knew that.  We knew that.  The government knew that.  The Fed knew that.  Of course they’re going to try to get us to bail them out.  It’s business.  A little scare tactics is also business.  Those jerks have already made their fortunes.  They don’t care. 

We, through congress, have the right not to be players.  If congress knows our wishes, and I’m certain they do, and despite them proceeds to do business with the shysters, then they’ll have to answer to us. It is an election year.  Congress knows that too.

The other thing we should remember is that criminal investigations into possible fraudulent business practices is also business.  Way to go, Marcy!

BTW, I’d like to speak on behalf of FENWICK.  Mr. Paulsen, FENWICK is a good guy and I hope you can lend him a billion, on the same terms as Wall St., hopefully.

FENWICK, I loved it!

Could anyone else use a billion?

This paves the way for president McBama to offer up Social Security to wall street for a new bubble in order to get the market out of the doldrums following the bailout.  Look at Pelosi here - this ought to be good campaign meterial for Cindy Sheehan:  http://www.huffingtonpost.com

The vast majority of U.S. citizens erroneously believe that “The Federal Reserve” is a government agency. 

In fact, the Federal Reserve is wholly owned by a consortium of private banks; it is controlled by bankers; and it protects their interests. It issues Federal Reserve Notes (dollar bills) for the cost of printing them (or, more often, for the cost of entering numbers on a computer screen). This privately-issued money is then lent to the government, and it is owed back to the private Federal Reserve with interest. The interest is eventually refunded to the government, but only after the Fed deducts its operating expenses and a 6 percent guaranteed return for its bank shareholders.

As for Fannie Mae – the Federal National Mortgage Association – it actually began under Roosevelt’s New Deal as a government agency. But like the Federal Reserve, Fannie Mae is now “federal” only in name. In 1968, it was re-chartered by Congress as a shareholder-owned company, funded solely with private capital. If it were a bank, today it would be the third largest bank in the world; and until recently, it made enormous amounts of money in the real estate market for its private owners. In 1970, Freddie Mac (the Federal Home Mortgage Corporation) was created to provide competition and end Fannie Mae’s monopoly in the secondary mortgage market. But Freddie Mac too is a wholly shareholder-owned, publicly-traded corporation.

If the people are going to bear the risk, we should reap the benefits. Either these two mega-corporations should take their licks in the market like any other private corporation, or they should be nationalized, delivering not just their debts but their assets to the taxpayers. Not just Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac but the Federal Reserve itself should be made truly federal entities, as the voters have been led to believe and their names imply. Remove the myth that these Wall Street-controlled entities act by and for the people rather than being run for private gain.

When, since the takeover of our former democracy by the Reichstag, did the issue of a ‘Constitution’ make any difference to any of these capitalists and their shadow conspirators in the Bourgeoisie? Remember due process of law, warrants for secret police surveilance, separation of church and state, and habeas corpus? Gone. If any of the working class of this country at this late date feels that the Constitution somehow guarantees that their hard-earned capital will not be stolen from them by the Bougeoisie without their consent, with the government’s blessing-and with no socialist payback like free medical care, guaranteed employment, retirement pensions that are life-sustaining, and a living wage-it is clear they are mistaken unless drastic measures are taken to assure that workers are protected.

Capitalism has failed and it must be dismantled. This bailout must include a socialist planning mechanism and complete reform and restructuring of Wall St or there must not be a bailout and we must take to the streets by the millions and demand a socialist solution. The Fuhrer has blamed this on workers and not capitalist bankers in an attempt to deflect the responsibility from the Boureoisie to the Proletariat and this cannot stand. The rights of the workers to the means of production must be protected and Paulsen and all SEC administrators immediately arrested for securities fraud, along with every exec who took worker capital in bonuses for a bank or institution losing capital at the time, the bonuses returned to the workers through centralized planning with individual income caps and wealth redistributed among the working class of the country. No capital can be permitted to be stolen from us without a New Socialist Deal, and if they try, we must take to the streets in general strikes and shut this country down. We must show the Bougeoisie that there is a new dictator and it is the worker in this country, who is being told to finance it.

There will be no more idle wealth. Wall St will be a ghost town, there will be no need for it, as strict government planning of all large capitalization corporations will be required with workers participating in assuring performance without corrupt profiteering or other capitalist remnants of the age of greed. Prisons will be filled with the decadent SEC, bankers, and Feds that allowed this to happen, where they will perform manual labor and contribute to society for a change. Karl Marx will be required reading at grade school level, and his books will be the model of the new American economic and political model, as well as Solzenitzen’s as we assure that the errors of the Stalinist Soviet failures are not repeated. Our crumbling cities will be cleaned up and the disenfranchized, forgotten poor will become the new middle class, guaranteed a living wage, pension, and the same education as the Bourgeoisie have now.

This is our birthright. We have been held back since the brief breakthrough of the New Deal by the harness of unfettered, aristocratic greed, and we cannot allow it to by stolen from us as a class. The time for class struggle has always been here, and we need to rise up and discard our creature comforts because it will be a hard fight. Join an organization, call your union leaders. Write your legislators. Demonstrate at your Federal building. Get on TV with signs. Attend meetings that organize demonstrations, and make sure they have permits-the Reichstag can lock you up without an arraignment. Change your registration to Peace and Freedom or Socialist Worker Party, but don’t give them money, use their boards to find out where meetings are and demonstrations are being held. Keep posting here and other boards, making links for good sources of information for other worker-related web info. Network.
The time for the socialist uprising has finally come. Don’t let it pass you by while trying to figure out what happened.

I wonder if John McCain is at all concerned about having to defend his record as it regards the current crisis. Doesn’t the Republican platform endorse free-markets? How can you promote corporate welfare, and economic socialism when you profess values and principle directly opposed to such activity? Didn’t Huckabee’s endorsement of McCain say he was a republican because he “didn’t wait around for the government to bail him out”. professing to value self-determination, personal responsibility and free-markets and then supporting the Cash For Trash plan put forward by this administration gives the appearance of promising one thing and doing another. Isn’t that the definition of hypocrisy? Does that make McCain a hypocrite? Perhaps this is why he doesn’t want to show up in Ole Miss?

“They” Claim the Bailout Is Necessary, But Is It Constitutional?

WHAT?!?  Is it Constitutional?!?

Like as if that is a non-rhetorical question, right?

It is <u>all</u> about…  The 32 Words…

“Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are
non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not
be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.”

If you do not understand the import of those 32 words, then follow the link.

This whole fiasco was deliberately engineered and executed to perfection. It is essentially a financial 9/11.

They hijacked Freddie and Fannie and flew them into the US Treasury.  Then Lehman collapsed. Now they are using terror tactics. Basically Wall St. is saying “give us 700,000,000,000 or we blow up the economy.”

The Bush administration withheld meaningful discussion and disclosure until a sufficient level desperation and urgency was palpable, then dropped the crisis on congress without allowing latitude for meaningful discussion or consideration of alternate points of view. And there are many alternate view points and strategy to contend with the effluence of deregulation.

The Fallout Plan (allowing the market to correct itself and deal intelligently and efficiently with the core reality) is infinitely preferable to the Cash For Trash Bailout authored by Paulson, back by the Bush administration and pushed by Bearnanke. The Cash For Trash scheme is subject to the follies of human sentimentalities and will be laden with enormous unintended consequences.

Constitutional?——it’s Capitalism at its worse.  This financial melt-down is a result of three attributes; Greed, Lax Regulations, Poor Foresight.  Greed is self-explanatory——its in the blood.  Waiving of financial regulations was due to a surplus of money in the late 90’s and allowing investment banks to enter the lucrative housing market where spiraling house values were the norm.  This had two effects; one, to give a current homeowner a neat profit and two, to put the cost of a home ownership out of the reach of the common man.  The spiraling home values were due to a lack of available housing.  It was the perfect financial storm.  Lots of investment cash, lack of available housing and a large population looking to become home owners.  Along comes Freddie and Fannie with a plan to offer mortgages with no down payment and easily affordable initial monthly mortgage payments.  Everybody could now be a homeowner and housing starts soared.  The thinking was that with ever increasing home values those individuals that could not make the mortgage payment would find it easy to put the house on the market to satisfy the lien or the bank could do it if foreclosed.  However, when home values declined precipitously in the last few years—-the bottom dropped out——the liens became virtually worthless and the alternate investments derived from those liens also became worthless catching even more banks and investment house including foreign firms in the failure network.

Like I mentioned greed is explanable and even forgivable, but relaxing of regulations and lack of foresight is not——lets see if anyone really pays for this debacle besides the lowly tax payer!

Well, after seeing how this was done, the bridge to no where makes much more sense.  Is there a difference between opportunists and extortionists?

This is another way to bail us out
          By James Messina
 

First let’s go back to the beginning starting at bubble, although I’d rather refer it to a balloon. In the year 2000 just after post doomsday Y2K the balloon was just placed on stem of the tank of air. During that year a house, let’s say in Holiday Florida would average at $50-60k. During that same year there were many types of easy loans such as HUD and Veteran (it wasn’t necessary to actually be a Vet, one just got a little better rate if you were) which made it very easy for the average individual with $500 and job to obtain approval. Section 8 had a role in this also. If they had 20% of the price of the home they didn’t even need a job. Actually they did, but what was referred to as a “no doc” all they had to do is just say they had an income.
  Now here is where the air valve just barley inflates the balloon. Keep in mind that Holiday Florida is just a reference point and places like California and Miami holds the same principle just different prices. These loans usually carried an ARM which meant 5 years down the road Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac would be tacking on another 2.5-3% interest. These easy loans that owners had to put their signatures on, selling their souls sort of speak, compounded by falling prices.
  Before they got to that point there was a “get rich quick” craze going on and everybody and his brother became an overnight realtor by “flip that house.” or two or three or four, renting them or just fixing them up, and profiting by the fast rising house prices caused by the craze. 
  We can argue who is to blame, apparently both the home buyer and the lender is at fault. The lender acted recklessly and lent and lent and competed to lend. Mortgage and title companies were popping up all over leading the owners like sheep before the slaughter.
  The balance of fault lies on the degree of greed. Could you blame the average Joe that wanted to get rich quick or the banks who should have had more sense?

Now we know how we got there lets propose how to get out. Giving 700 million to the same banks who got us here, paid for by the average Joe’s taxes and not only that but, Joe must barrow the money with interest just to give it to the ones who lent Joe the money for the house that he is now foreclosed on. That’s like Joe borrowing money to give to heroin dealers in order to make sure they have a steady supply of heroin that they could sell him.
  We have another option but of course it will not be considered because the government thinks it is in their best interest to help the banks thinking it will save Wall Street. We have to let the air out of the balloon by getting the prices of homes closer to the year 2000. The way we can do that is instead of giving the money directly to the banks; give it to the notes that are over priced. Let’s start with Joe’s house and his only house for now. If he paid let’s say $200,000 and he is in foreclosure, reset the value to the year 2003. That means rewriting the note. The year used adjusting the house value would be determined on until the 700 billion is allocated to first every homeowner that will occupy that house(700 billion will just an arbitrary number for now or just a limit).  This will in no doubt cause values to come down all over. This plan could be implemented to the relevance of importance. The homeless first then to the struggling families aiming at the outrageously over priced homes, this will hurt the rich and humble undeserving. There are Joe’s out there that flipped houses until he bestowed on half a million dollar house with an income that can’t support it. He should eventually be included in this bill.
  It all comes down to the basics, supply & demand. Now the supply is high. By slashing prices will create gamut of demand. New loans, transparency and credit will flow like neighborhoods at a block-party. This is the way to bailout Main Street & Wall Street.

CASH FOR TRASH! Join the protest! Or organize one in your community! Get involved now. Make yourself heard! Tune into to DemocracyNow! for more details. How many of us would sit by and watch while thieves entered our homes and stole $2300 from each person? http://www.democracynow.org/

Paulson let the cat out of the bag yesterday when he said it’s all “....staged….”  Then lame-duck Bush was waddled out to go “cuckoo” thirteen times.  The gangsters are “all-in.”  The only “out” ordinary people have left is to call this monstrous bluff. 

That, of course, means a willingness to bring the entire false economy to a grinding halt.  What’re the chances of that happening?  Well, to this old Indian they look slim-to-none, the way things are going.

Still, the crash is coming in any event.  Might be better to meet it all together, than for each ersatz “individual” to get ground-up all alone.

That wouldn’t, obviously, be “the cowboy way.”  It is, though, the very essence of The Tiyoshpaye Way.

HokaHey!

By troublesum, September 25 at 10:33 am #

The democrats negotiated with republicans for a whole 2 hours before reaching agreement on the bailout today.  Public be damned.  Schumer’s biggest contributor is Goldman Sachs.  Frank, who also has major wall stree contributors, said, “There really wasn’t any deadlock to work through.”

Reminds of the William Macy’s scene in Fargo where he is selling a car.  He says he has to talk with his manager.  He walks in the other office and exchanges some small talk and comes back out tells the buyer it’s a deal.  I’ll be willing to bet that’s what happened. Tonight, instead of laissez-faire, it’s going to be laissez le bon temp roulez.

The democrats negotiated with republicans for a whole 2 hours before reaching agreement on the bailout today.  Public be damned.  Schumer’s biggest contributor is Goldman Sachs.  Frank, who also has major wall stree contributors, said, “There really wasn’t any deadlock to work through.”

Follow up to below: Please note I am RAGING against this bailout…it’s just prolonging the agony, we need to rip the bandaid right off and deal with it.

I believe we are in for a recession regardless of what happens - we deserve it, we need to use it as a reason to clean house in DC, and it’s the only way for us to get back to basics.

I believe the neocons knew all along that this would happen (why else would they have a failure plan on deck), but they fully expected it to fall onto “President McCain”‘s lap. I believe he has been set up to be the fall guy this entire time.

Even better for them if it falls on Obama, that way in 4 years they can swoop back in to save us from “the recession that Obama brought upon us”.

I can only hope at the very least people have gotten a little smarter despite themselves.

Here’s what I propose if this bailout goes through.

If deregulation precluded any of these wall street clowns from having any legal culpability how about civil?

If this bailout occurs, and the CEOs skate outta dodge and leave the shareholders holding the bag of worthless tickets, what would stand in the way of class action suits? Why could it not be proven that these professionals were not fulfilling their fiduciary duty to their shareholders?

Seeing as how many people in this country who has any retirement at all has some investment in wall street, there could be quite a few claimants.

Maybe there is more than one way to skin a cat?

Quote was from this article:  http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_28310.shtml

“The US is not a superpower.  The US is a financially dependent country which foreign lenders can shut down at will.”
http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_28313.shtml

sorry at http://www.democracynow.org: check out british detainee 8/25: the world has the pictures & documentation of torture so grusome it rivals that of the Nazi’s; you might also check out “mr Paulson” & his past to Wall ST; also see license to steal (book) written about Wall ST: they simply took the idea from what’s been going on up at Capitol Hill; and backdating “laws” and rewritting original internet archives: http://www.thetip.org; check out Paul Bremer’s will the real Paul Bremer stand up; he also talks as many of them do: even had a list: going down the world: of world dominion cuz they have fooled the USA for so long; & gotten away with it. Trying hard to block Ministers from talking about it; and for the believers they have not yet recognized nor opened their eyes to the fact that they are effectively working for the deceivers;

and there is so much $ that the immigrants who had THIER land & water stole from them by the same Corps who sit down with the USA Gov & tell them how they want it run: taking away all laws protecting the people: exploitation folks: imitating the church: all these folks one community in Dayton Ohio 90% of the community just “disappeared” leaving behind everything, family Bibles, pics; etc: gosh it sure as HELL wasn’t the rapture now was it; it is a SET UP folks: for the New World Order & they’ve been so successful in buffaloing the folks of the USA they are off to take it globally! And ACLJ is fighting for pastors to keep free speech: our lawless leaders have so much $ the “big change” to keep National Security (they are NOT broke) by any means: is to “take the wealth from the wicked” the legal citizens of the USA & give it to the immigrants; after all as Obama stated: we are the ones taking the babies from the mothers while they take refuge in churchs’ (in reality it was the Gov agencys in Texas claiming a call that did this) they are going on to call the citizens of the USA the “terrorists” and vowing to fight us! they have actively been engaged in psychological abuse, financial, job wise & every other way possible conceivable way: the whole world is well aware this is a dictatorship; so do the poor Iraqi’s they were excited to see us; heard of freedom; but once set up like USA Gov & the mega Corps taking all their profits & the folks at the top taking it all for themselves & families they KNEW it was dictatorship far far worse than under Saddam; WE are the new “nazi’s” gentlemen: look at http://www.democracynow.org; and guess who are the victims!

Open letter to Henry “Hank Paulson, Secretary of the Treasury.

Dear Mr. Paulson:

Can you lend me $1 billion till my brother straightens out?

Best regards,

Name and address provided upon positive answer.

Fascinating.  P and B admit when cornered that they don’t know if the bail-out will ‘do the trick’ and in the next breath declare that if (their version) of the bail-out isn’t enacted the entire economy of the US will ‘collapse.’

If you don’t know an outcome, how can you say what the outcome will be.  Am I missing something?

The most amusing part of this mess is that everbody could see this coming for years. If you couldn’t, you were not paying attention.

The other funny part is that almost everyone knows that this “bail-out” is not going to work either. This whole thing depends on one truth, that debtors will somehow manage to keep paying the intrest on their debt, even during a huge economic downswing. And those payments will somehow finance a recovery.

We’ve been here before. 1929,1982,1991. The big(huge) difference this time is a massive 10 trillion goddamn dollar principal!

It will never be paid off, it will only grow now, until it’s as large as everything owned in the US!
But we will have collapsed long before that!

Don’t worry, be happy!

Many people have noted the similarities between the “urgent crisis” to bail out Wall Street and the claim that we needed to attack Iraq immediately to prevent a “mushroom cloud.”

The same technqiues of fear and urgency were used to push through The Patriot Act.

We definitely need to look at these situations with unique and clear perspectives, if we can. More on this in the articles:

“Wall Street drama: Deliver the $700 billion, or the economy’s dead” (September 24, 2008)

http://americanchronicle.com/articles/75325

“Wall Street’s special offer – but you must act now!” (September 24, 2008)

http://www.populistamerica.com/wall_streets_special_offer_but_you_must_act_now

“Let’s Bail out the Greedy, the Crooks, the Suckers” (September 23, 2008)

http://www.populistamerica.com/lets_bail_out_the_greedy_the_crooks_the_suckers

I don’t know why I am even bothering to comment here because as par for the course by msm standards all we are getting is ‘deal almost ready for bailout’ and no terms listed. Obviously it will go through and the treasury will get their trump card of being totally taken over by the federal reserve which is made up of mostly foreign directorates. With that and the NO OVERSIGHT and ACCOUNTABILITY from congress or the courts we will have signed over the most direct power of determining what happens to this country. I doubt that even this will move people to go the capital and drag their representatives out and tar and feather them. As they said somewhere at sometime, the US would be taken down from within. And by god it has even been covered on tv. There are no surveys of the population to show if the majority of people want this or not if for no other reason to show how much our congress does NOT care for the people that elected them. I would guess this is the last step in the grand larceny project and the coup d’etat for sending the middle class down into the 3rd world country status. Wonder how many years will pass before or IF the people wake up and revolt?

I just wanna listen to Travis Tritt’s “Lord have mercy on the workin man” over and over. 

These Wall Street “penis inhalers” need to be placed in pillories and the taxpayers given rocks the size of softballs to pelt them with.  When we’re through with them, load in the politicans!

sorry, I meant “tails” beween their legs.

Today on democracynow Nader makes a point I hadn’t seen before which is that a tax payer bailout means that the government will be paying greater than market prices for the bad debts since without a bailout they would simply be going for what the market would allow.  So the bailout has nothing to do with saving the economy but everything to do with
the big boys not taking a hit.  Democrats are waiting for republicans to take the lead on the bill so that they can play their usual role of going along, tales between their legs.

Panic, fear again and again.  This Chicken Little routine has become very old.  Timing seems planned, for they know this was happening months before and we were told the economy was rock solid.  They just did not know or they lied?  So this plan was written two months ago would support the lie. 

Why are bad investments by big companies so worthy of bail outs while the rest of us get squat, because then it is called socialist?  Guess the difference would be socialism is for all, but when it is a select few we call it bailout?  Save the word socialism to be used again in a negative light, keep the commie connection. Unenlightened masses will always vote against their own best interests under the right lights.

This is the beauty of the elite, feed us shit and lies and keep us in the dark like mushrooms, while they rejoice in the safety of their swiss bank accounts.

I thought there was general agreement in Washington that the constitution is obsolete.  Why would they even consider the constitution now that the supreme court is full of political hacks.

How can we believe these two Wall Street Insiders with our Treasury? They are inside the circle of bankers that made this mess and now they want the people to save their personal wealth while bankrupting the rest of the country? This bailout needs to be stopped and slow deliberate measures applied a little at a time to help those who deserve help.

Sorry I just can not believe they are acting on my behalf!

“Is it constitutional?” What, if anything, about the last eight years and Bushco has been constitutional? The wars? The detentions? The renditions? The torture? Hmmm, maybe the genocide. Wait, maybe it’s been the sycophantic lying of Scoots Libby, the weaseling whining of Bert-o Gonzales (anyone need a supreme court judge?), the utter sliming presence of Karl Rove, OR the arrogant refusal to uphold U.S. law by Amerika’s next weaseling AG the Mukasey monster. There’s a “bailout” at work here and as the treasonous scum bailout on Amerika with their bags filled to capacity with YOUR money, be sure to “smile and wave boys, smile and wave!”

The thing that pisses me off the most is this:  These assholes knew about the bad financials two years ago.  One more time “they” lied (for the last 2 years)!  Now they come hat in hand wanting a handout.  And, they use the fear bullshit, just like Iraq, terrorism, and the Bugiman (Malacca pirates)!  Boy, have they got our number!  And, the big bad in control democrats will cave again.  By god, somebody should give them a healthy tongue lashing and send them to bed without dinner.

According to this mornings headlines the deal will be done by the end of the week.  All it took was a speech by the liar in chief for the democrats to fall in line.  McBama is going to make a joint statement.  Since he has already done so on every other main issue it shouldn’t be too difficult on this.  You can vote for McBama under the republican or the democratic column.