It’s interesting.  The Asian markets have opened before the passage of this bailout and not a peep.  They said they had to pass it before Monday.  But look where the banking failures are coming from.  The “New” Europe as Cheney described these countries.  Belgium, The Netherlands, England.  These are the counries that defied the will of their people and supported or sent troups to Iraq.  The old Europe as pointed out by Noam Chomsky were the ones that followed the will of their people and did not become allies in that unholy war.
Support a third party candidate.  Let those sons a bitches go back to selling insurance or whatever scam they ran before getting elected to represent their constituents.

we must take to the streets
we are borrowing 700 billion to give the mob just so they can lend it back to us
does that make sense except the the mob?

PatrickHenry: ‘… Paying back $700 Billion will be a bitch. ...’

They’re not going to pay in back in the usual sense.  The present plan is to reinflate the housing and stock markets, which will almost certainly be followed by a general inflation of the prices of real goods and services.  In other words, the value of the bailout will come out of those whose incomes and assets are more or less fixed to cash, such as wage-earners, people with savings, and those with fixed incomes and entitlements—the not-so-rich—and it will be transferred to the gamblers, plungers and con men who brought about the present crisis.  This inevitably raises the question of whether the Chinese and other foreigners will continue to buy increasingly worthless U.S. debt and if not, what will happen then.

Rush/Bush--Rosa Luxembourg stated that the major enemy is always at home.  She was murdered along with Karl Liebknecht by the police under the Social Democrats in 1919, they serving the interests of their ruling class the way the Dems are doing now in the US.

This is especially relevant now when the major enemy of the predatory US ruling class is now the American population. The fraudulent War on Terrorism is essentially a racket to drive the American people into the ground, foreign policy always been driven by domestic policy.

But you want to conceal this from the American people, don’t you Rus/Bush, which is why you infiltrate progressive commentary.  You obviously don’t have enough to do at the White House-Cheney won’t let you touch anything- so you have plenty of time to distract normal truthers.

Fess up, Rus/Bush.  Laura put you up to this, didn’t she.  She didn’t want you hanging around the house all day.  All right, I suppose we have to put up with it, just another piece of grit in the vaseline.
Just so you know that we’re on to you.

Rus7355:
‘I have and will continue speaking negatively about many thing the U.S. does and has done in the past. But I will say again that most regulars on this Web site almost always blames America First. It’s their default position. It’s the position most often taken before all the facts are out.’

That is fairly reasonable since the United States is, or was until recently, the most powerful state on the planet, and it is unquestionably the most aggressive and the only one actively seeking world domination at the moment.  It is also appropriate because most of the participants here appear to be Americans, and the United States is and should be their primary concern.  In addition, Americans as a community have a deep problem of exceptionalism—when we do it, it’s good, when other people do it, it’s bad—which is very tedious and exacerbates any disagreement or antipathy to the U.S. and its doings greatly.

I believe the United States IS, today, a great nation. She is a driving force for the rule of law and individual freedoms. I believe the American population, proven time and time again, gives more of ourselves to help others than any single nation on earth. I believe its simple and narrow to think Iran dislikes only the Bush White House. Not after almost thirty exhaustively documented years of open hostility between our two nations.

I also believe the United States rarely wages war for little or no reason. Right or wrong the perception has almost always been in self defense. Saddam Hussein included! ~Rus

Oh lord, “real history and context”? You’ve got to be kidding me. The US is not, currently, a great nation. It is the leading cause of instability in the world; it is a dangerously unhinged failing superpower.

The US always has “reasons” for going to war, just not generally very good ones. The reasons are all about US hegemony and nothing else.

Supporting freedom is an admirable thing to do, but then why do we not support “freedom” in Saudi Arabia or China or a whole long list of other places.  I refer you to real history and context.

I don’t disbelieve you when you say that you have long thought of yourself as holding a “liberal view”, but neither do i care nor does it excuse anything. The “liberal view” has caused as much mayhem and carnage as the “conservative view” does today.

And i should note that you prefaced most of your statements with “I believe...”; belief is what we cling to when we can’t prove something.

P.S. “rule of law and individual freedom”? Have you been under a rock for the last eight years?

“A full blown “truth commission” would be best.” Ah! truth, something that has not seen daylight for a long time. I will donate to build the guillotine, it would be nice to see my money being used properly.

The “Bush” name has transended politics and become a state of mind.  Much like Homer Simpson, however Homer has a much kinder heart.

Several special prosecuters are warranted to investigate the past 8 years of financial and war crimes of this past administration. 

A full blown “truth commission” would be best.

The next president will have to play “whack a mole” on corporate givaway, MIC bases (761), war gear and contractors, foreign givaways and fund a alternate energy revolution.

Paying back $700 Billion will be a bitch.

I think Russ is a machine.  Really a programmed machine like the kind that call you on your phone and don’t say hello.  Your responses, Russ, remind me of one of those 8 balls that show a generic answer in a little window.

Events could suggest that McCain is throwing the election on purpose, he likes being in the Senate, and if people in Az or stupid enough to reelect him that is his comfort zone. Now I hear he wants to do something with Social Security, because it has social in the name. Taking on the helm of a sinking or already sunk ship is not something most people would want to do.

The next president will be taking over a trashed by Bush USA, if this money handout passes, their will be nothing left for infrastructure, which seems to suite certain people in government and a ongoing plan.  The rest of us are left to flounder for ourselves with the Constitution trashed, education handicapped, roads and public projects incomplete, need I mention a certin bridge?

If, and this is a big if, Obama wins, he will need help and not from the Washington elite and their cronies.

Patrick Henry, I can see why you’d think this:

• “I suspect Rus7355 is actually George Bush.”

He certainly sounds like him in print. But, I don’t know. I don’t think little Georgie can come up with more than four letter words in his vocabulary, and he probably doesn’t know how to work from a template, which is what Rus7355 uses. Here’s an example:

From Rus numbers

• “I take solice in the fact that people who think as you do are the minuscule minority.”

Now Rus numbers has used this template before, as has his other personality, JBlack. But, he switched it around this time, just by a word or two, which we can tell he did on his own, because he misspelled solace. But the rest is the same. He sees EVERYBODY else (collectively) as the ‘minority’, and himself (and his other personas) as the majority. How delusional is that?

So in that respect, he’s definitely George Bush, but George Bush doesn’t know how to use the internet or a computer.

Leefeller,

I think you must have fallen for a tall tale from Rus numbers. He must have told you that he’s been accepted at some educational institution, as a freshman. There’s no way. No high school or college would admit rus numbers...not even in the 21st Century, unless it’s at Liberty University. (that’s Pat Robertson’s unaccredited law school. That’s where georgies staff and the INjustice dept staff all come from).

Anywhere else, he just isn’t ‘freshman’ material.

Rus numbers/Bush--Most of the world thinks the US is the major danger in the world power arena.  And Patrick Henry is obvously correct.  You are really Dubya Bush.

By Rus7355, September 26 at 5:21 am #

By Rus7355, September 26 at 5:32 am #

I suspect Rus7355 is actually George Bush.

Various polls are showing that 30% of the public say that they have no understanding of this issue as well as no interest in it.  Not surprising that they try to impose these schemes on us.

Rus,

Thanks for your feedback. Next semester as a freshman, don’t be surprised by the mother of all wedgie’s the seniors will be giving you after you tell them to “love it or leave it”.

RUS 7355,

Being part of a solution is not possible without accurate, unadulterated information.
So informed people, thinkers, are generally a little cynical-
why?
Because the truth is often times not pretty.

Who do YOU turn to for your information?

Also,

What would you suggest the SOLUTION is?
Is the problem open dialogue?
This is what this website is about. For better or worse, it is an open forum, and a place to exchange ideas and thoughts.

And I love my country.
But I am angry with the people in charge, and people that blindly support them, mislead by false pretenses.

I am not blind, and so I do get angry and you should to dude------

I certainly don’t blame America first, Rus numbers, since I am often late in commenting.  I am for blaming American MOST, since it is by far the most dangerous anti-people polity in the world arena.  the US not only leads the world in the prevention of solving climate warming, and class inequality both between and within nations, it is on an historical trajectory to creating a thermonuclear war.

the owners of the banks and corporations have taken over the US government and are driving the American people and trying to drive the world’s people into the ground.  Although the poisonous drivel you spew does not noticably increase global warming, it does warm the cockels of the hearts of fellow flagwaggers who support torture and mass murder, as well the impoverishment of the population by the rich.

And much worse, you do serve to orient the discourse and consensus toward your obvous value perversions and routine falsehood, allowing the support of oppression to masquerade as progressivism.  That is the most important function of your inane discourse.

The eventual bailout legislation will have a lasting effect on the next administration.  It will simply handcuff the treasury for a long time to come. When the funds transfers are complete, be it in installments or one spectacular $700 billion tranche, there will be virtually no new social spending possible. There will be no way to lower taxes on the middle class or anyone for that matter.  There will be no way to enact health care reform. There will be no means for the federal government to effectively run many existing programs, which will lend luster to the Republican calls for privatization of Social Security.  All of the potential good that could come from finally jettisoning the anti-New Deal Party (because, let’s face it, that’s all the Republican platforms have amounted to from Goldwater to Reagan to Gingrich to Bush!) will be lost in the tranches of capital diverted to those who need it least. Tranche Warfare—the elite vs. everyone else. That is the Plan. Bush is playing his cards, whether by choice or chance, so we won’t notice that his final stroke in office will be to make the Republican Revolution permanent and impossible to reverse for decades to come.

We see the USA wave the flag mental midgets, support sending our troops off to wars killing innocent people in the Middle East with no remorse, why would not the same people feel any more different of the same thing happening to their fellow Americans? For, the us and them mentality supports nothing but divisiveness propagated by many instituions from religion to politics.  This mental premise supposes anyone different then you is not worthy of support or compassion, demonizing makes it more palatable.  Even between the political parties, we see the same divisive techniques.

Fallout of indifference apparent from Katrina and toward the institution of war seems non existant.  Blind faith supporting an imperialist mental mercenary make up, promoted and prompted by propaganda.  In effect, we only have to just wave the flag.

This is probably one of the final, damning acts in a long series of ones like it that put more and more power into corporate hands.
Government and corporation are one in the same already. they work closely. obviously. This bailout scheme is also obvious. they do not care if the American people suffer because they are so far removed from reality and suffer no consequences, atleast for the time being (one of my comforts in life is believing that their day will come). They are cold, feasting lizards of destruction, callous, narrow minded, not altogether intelligent all the time, but dangerous, especially as a collective entity. They rob, pillage, and murder, crimes still inexcusable even if committed indirectly. It seems that it is too late to fight in the case of this bailout scheme.  The deal is already done, nothing we can do to stop it.  Depressing, yes, but true because this train has gathered too much momentum to be stopped this late in its journey. I say don’t panic, they want us to panic, be scared, offer up freedoms and individuality in the name of “safety”.  Thank God there are a few politicians who oppose this takeover, but it would take much more than a few “squeeky wheels” to stop this thing. It would take mass opposition, and that could only be created by directly offending the people en mass, with hostile affront. The piecemeal deprivation of our rights, privacy, etc. has been a long process-so as not to arouse the sleeping beast that could be the taxpayers if they realized what was really happenng to them. It will take a direct, forceful removal of The People’s way of life. I knew someone once that said as long as we keep getting layed and entertained we won’t do shit about the systematic removal of EVERYTHING THAT IS GOOD.

Rus said:

“Oops...I am an advocate for the United States when most regulars on this site ARE not.”

Ignorance is bliss Rus and you are full of bliss. Sadly you get to vote with that brain, that is ,if you are over 12 years old.

Yes, I hate you Rus, and I am a bigot Rus, and hope you feel better now.  Did you get enough attention indulging us with your personal fetishes.

Actually I really do not hate you, but you remind me of a Vietnam fly, annoying in a special way.

Rus7355:

Oops...I am an advocate for the United States when most regulars on this site ARE not.

Learning about real and verifiable history is not that difficult. Being lead around by the partisan nose is the easiest thing in the world.

This is one of the most bigoted Web Sites I visit. I only wish some of you could see that clearly.

More accurately, you are an advocate for one branch of the propaganda ministry of the U.S. ruling class—the “my country right or wrong” branch, which is considered too crude in manner for the Wall Street Journal or the New York Times, but is good enough for most of the media and the folk in general.

If you believe history can be learned, then you should display some of the learning you have achieved by mentioning facts unfavorable to your great leaders and their institutions.

As for bigoted, I think you’ve got it backwards.  There is quite a variety of opinion here.  Thinking people do not fall into lockstep because someone starts waving a flag.  If you want to proselytize among the heathen, you need to at least come up to their standards.

Oh, I forgot that ridiculous grandstand play when Carter tried to rescue the hostages. That was Carter’s only mistake, and it cost him the election.

By Rus7355, September 26 at 1:51 am #

That’s my entire point. Ahmadinejad has a great deal in common with most TruthDig regulars. It’s not worth thinking about unless you Blame America First!
---------------------------------------------------
What have the Iranians ever done to us since the hostage crisis, which, by the way, both the Iranians and Jimmy Carter get credit for resolving without the loss of a single life? Nothing, is what.

Cyrena, I agree that Bush is probably the most dangerous person in the world.

Russ, you’re a wonderful advocate for the US Government.  I’ll bet there would be a place for you in the State Department, someday, if you play your cards right.  Maybe in your Palin administration. I’m dashing an e-mail off to her people in Alaska.

By Rus7355, September 26 at 1:51 am #

What about 138 UN Resolutions against Israel?

http://www.mediamonitors.net/michaelsladah&suleimaniajlouni1; .html

It sounds like you get you talking points (rhetoric) from the Jeruselum Post.

Rus, if your so fired up about Ahmadinejad, get on a plane go there and tell him.  Your arguement that he is the boogyman in a neighborhood full of boogymen doesn’t carry much weight.

We have more pressing matters here in the U.S. if this post’s topic hasn’t clued you in.

Silly me.. Rus7355, I’ll give you that.. in my haste, I discounted other factors of YOUR BELIEFS.  Thanks to the wonder of modern science though..., I can still do that.  So in addition, I offer Rus7355’s additional BELIEFS:

”I believe the American population, proven time and time again, gives more of ourselves to help others than any single nation on earth.

”I believe its simple and narrow to think Iran dislikes only the Bush White House.”

”I believe in taking sides. I believe America is obliged.”

Thank Rus7355, I couldn’t have illuminated that more concisely than you.  You definitely have me beat there.  Ciao.

P.S.  Rus7355, I love you… as you love me.

By cyrena, September 25 at 7:51 pm #

rus numbers writes:

• “But, again, the Iranian government is an open and sworn enemy of the United States. In fact Iran has professed it’s intentions many times for decades. And every U.S. President since President Carter has talked of Iran in exactly the terms I am writing today.”

----------------------------------------------------
No, the actual fact is that the United States is the open and sworn enemy of Iran, not the other way around. The United States could make peace with Iran, and could have done so any time in the last twenty years and more. It has not done so because it does not want to and it covets Iran’s oil.

Re: Rus7355

You have definitely laid claim to the fact that you “believe”, I offer, your assertions:

“I believe the United States IS, today, a great nation.”

“I also believe the United States rarely wages war for little or no reason.”

“I believe in interfering when tens of thousands loose their lives.”

So… I guess it is here where we get to the crux of the matter.  YOUR BELIEFS, my dear friend, expose you.  What else is it YOU are willing to divulge of YOUR BELIEFS?  Be candid… remember, I love you… as you love me.

rus numbers writes:

• “But, again, the Iranian government is an open and sworn enemy of the United States. In fact Iran has professed it’s intentions many times for decades. And every U.S. President since President Carter has talked of Iran in exactly the terms I am writing today.”

So, uh….never mind about that Regan thing, Iran Contra. That doesn’t count.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/reagan/peopleevents/pande 08.html

Then we’ve got this little ditty as well: Regan and Genada…SOOOOO illegal:

http://www.commondreams.org/scriptfiles/views03/1027-06.htm

http://www.democracynow.org/2004/6/10/remembering_reag ans_invasion_of_grenada

Then of course, back to Iran, never mind that the CIA (doing what they do best, and always at the direction of the President, whomever that happens to be) overthrew the democratically elected Mossadeq

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB28/

And, while we’re in that time period anyway, why not bring up that event in Korea, that took the lives of two of my uncles, and the left my stepfather permanently disabled, minus a limb. I mean, since rus here is claiming that:

• “…I also believe the United States rarely wages war for little or no reason. Right or wrong the perception has almost always been in self defense. Saddam Hussein included!

Perception my ass. What was the “Perception” in Korea, or Vietnam, or the Philippines, or Bosnia, or Grenada, or Iraq, and on and on, and on? The only ‘perception’ is GLOBAL HEGEMONY by US Military Force. And it became written and codified POLICY under the Bush Doctrine of Pre-Emptive War!!!

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20020715/falk/print

In fact, there’s been no ‘reason’ or validated ‘perception’ for ANY of the wars the US has initiated since WWII.

And what about all of the other governments that the US/CIA has overthrown? Peru, when they installed the US puppet Fujimori, or Chile, what they put one of the cruelest dictators know to history, Augusto Pinochet in charge? What about all of the Latin American countries where the US has both trained and backed horrible regimes, and continues to do so in places like Salvador and Columbia?

What about the military ‘help’ from the Pentagon in the Rwandan Genocide? What about the on going ‘war on terror’ that allows the US to go anywhere they want (like Somalia) and bomb civilians in their homes under the guise of ‘catching terrorists’?

What about all of the torture apparatus set up at Bragam and Abu Ghraib?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagram_torture_and_prison er_abuse

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2005/03/03_200 5_Bazelon.html

Was there a ‘good reason’ for violating the highest priority law of the International Community, like TORTURE? WIDE SPREAD TORTURE????

You say we shouldn’t ‘blame America’. Well, *I’M* NOT blaming America. I’m blaming Richard B Cheney and his secret staff, and his puppets like GW Bush; at least for the past 8 years of the most heinous crimes against humanity in the history of the world.

Re: Rus7355

I see you’re begging for attention again, ...OK...I love you too… Rus7355

In addition, I just went to the other thread and “troublesum” had posted this link. (Thanks troublesum)

This is what I mean…

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2008/09/25-7

Thinking about this whole thing leads one to consider the bigger picture.  While it might be in “their” favor to be bailed out, collect the money and bankrupt our goverment, how does this fit into the larger scheme of things.

It seems odd that the verbiage which would have given Paulson incredible overreaching authority was put in this Act.  I’ve read that the original act Paulson introduced was four pages long.  Does it seem plausible that this verbiage granting him undue authority would have gone unnoticed?  Something smells… It seems purposeful.

So what really is the game..?  Suddenly, McCain was grandstanding during this whole charade.  First he was going to cancel the debate to deal with this urgent matter, then he came out totally lambasting the outline and the amount of money involved.  After that, in the story I caught, it claimed several “conservative” republicans were holding up the consensus.  Since they claimed, it “went against the market”.

At the same time, we have another group attempting to get a handout.  Socialism/facsism...???  Something is up.  These things do not jive.  In the middle of all this we have Goldman Sachs people everywhere.  What’s the connection?

Go back to Reagan, breaking unions and deregulation.  Wages drop, safety suffers.  Clinton puts 100,000 extra officers on the street via Biden.  Obama chooses Biden.  Obama chooses Rubin, Clinton’s guy.  I’m not a P.I., so what’s the connection?  They had a plan, we know that… but we DON’T know the whole plan, and I’m sure very few do, so what’s the connection..?

With lower wages and insecure employment, people won’t qualify for loans.  So the “rules” are relaxed, homes sell.  We have a supposed “good economy” our budget goes into the black.  Then war, it drains the coffers.  Fundamentalism makes a surge, but it had already been stewing.  Now, a supposed economic collapse. What’s the accurate accounting of of the bigger picture?  It’s hard to see the forest through the trees.

I came across this article it makes some good points, I’d read this.  An excerpt:

”But would the bailout really fix the system? Obviously, for it to do so, it would have to address and correct the cause.

So what is the cause? According to Paulson, the cause is “defaults on mortgages.” Senator Schumer agreed that ,“It’s been mortgages that have brought the financial system to its knees.”

It continues:
”And that is the crux of the problem, which explains why Paulson’s proposal may keep the financial system alive but won’t help anyone who was hurt by the housing bubble in the first place. Senator Dodd agreed with Paulson that, “the proposal will not help a single family save their home.” And even though he said the plan should “put an end to foreclosures and defaults,” it won’t.”

Then:
”The committee never addressed the issue of why the bankers would oppose homeowner relief. Could it be that they actually favor foreclosures? Could it be that a situation where millions of foreclosed homes across America can be bought today for dimes on the dollar is somehow to their advantage? Or to the advantage of other investors who are now working the U.S. foreclosure markets, such as foreign sovereign equity funds? These questions did not come up at the Banking Committee’s hearing, though they should have.

Nor did anyone talk about why the housing bubble arose in the first place, though the fact is that the Bush administration and Federal Reserve combined to generate it to get the nation out of the 2000-2001 recession.” (emph.mine)

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va& aid=10322

Remember in the aftermath of Katrina, the criminals rushed in and attempted to buy up prime locations for pennies on a dollar. Blackwater moves in to “restore order”.  Something is up.... I don’t think it’s what we think it is… I could be wrong, but this puzzle’s pieces just aren’t matching up.

Anyone..?

Obama has taken $22 million in campaign contributions from wall street while McCain has raked in $23 million.  No other candidates in history have taken so much cash from wall street as these two.

There is only one party now.  Only the blind cannot see this.

Rus,

The difference between Ahmadinejad and Truthdig posters (aside from his fundamentalist religion...as Dr. Knowitall pointed out) is that every time America does something stupid/evil it helps him stay in power, so he actually likes America this way.  While most Truthdig posters want to see America act like a member of the community of nations.

Here’s a little news flash for you: we are a great nation only when we behave like a great nation.  We cannot be a free nation at home that supports tyranny abroad (and we have/do just that).  We cannot tell the world to live in peace when we wage war for no good reason.  We cannot expect the world to uphold human rights when our conception of them is relative to who’s doing what and if it helps us.  We cannot tell the world to fight terrorism when we foment it.  We cannot expect the world to think about its future and freedom when we care little for our own.  We cannot teach the world democracy when we neglect it.

The world at large doesn’t hate America; it hates American hypocrisy...and through all that very rarely hates individual Americans.  It is not the world that has a problem with “America”, it is America that has a problem with the world.

Sorry if there isn’t enough flag waving here for you.

By Dr. Knowitall, PhD, PhD, September 25 at 3:33 am #

Cyrena, North Korea has restarted its Nuke and Ahmadinejad stood before the UN and ran up one side of the US and down the other.  Look for Bully Boy Bush to hit someone--soon.

This is off subject.  I can understand Ahmadinejad’s resolve vis a vis Bush, but I have never listened to so much “God” bullshit come from one mouth in so little time as I heard from him at the UN.  No wonder ordinary people in the world are at such risk of annihilation.

~~~~~

Dr. Knowitall,

Yep, I noted yesterday that NK was re-starting their nuke program. And, it ain’t about God for them.

And, despite Imadinnerjacket’s rhetoric, (which I’ve been following from the time he was elected) I don’t think that they are nearly as ‘dangerous’ as many are likely to think. In fact, I find GW Bush far more dangerous than I find Mamoud Ahmadinejad, because he really DOES have control of the buttons.

Despite all of the shit that Mamoud might talk, Iran has been in compliance with the rules of the NPT, and hasn’t (yet) decided to withdraw from the treaty. As we can see, there are no such concerns for NK.

I’m not sure if you remember back during the lead-up to the Iraq war, when NK was threatening nuclear action all over the place, and the Bush Cabal was basically ignoring them, because they were so focused on getting Saddam out of the way, to get to the OIL.

that’s ALWAYS the bottom line. These thugs in DC don’t care about nuclear dangers.(aside from Obama and a handful of other die-hards like me and my group of anti-nuclear peace activists, who want to destroy ALL nuclear weapons, and not let ANYBODY have them, including us)

An interesting ‘parallel’ event to this, is how McCain railed against Hugo Chavez in that interview that he had with the Latin American correspondent last week. It’s equally interesting how McCain, (and people like rus numbers) rail against Hugo Chavez and Ahmadinejad in the same context. WHY??? Because they’ve both chosen to nationalize their oil. I read a piece yesterday, (though I can’t remember where now, but I could find it) that Hugo Chavez has just signed a deal to provide China with LOTS of OIL. (this makes the DC terrorists crazy). According to the piece, he was then headed to Russia.

Meantime, Iran switched to the Yen and the Euro for ALL of their oil trade business, at least a year ago, if not longer. (Saddam had been planning the same thing...dumping the $USD for such purposes) That’s why HE had to go.

So, I said that to say that we could hear the raw hatred/bitterness in gramps McCain’s voice when he spoke of Chavez, pairing it with how we needed to reduce our dependence on ‘foreign’ oil. What he really means, is that these “foreigner’s” have kicked the US cabal/thieves out of their countries, even though Cheney finally DID get what he wanted from Iraq. 

That’s not to say that I’m ignoring the colorful rhetoric from Imadinnerjacket, and I admit that he does lay in on really thick. However, I’ve had an opportunity to consult (at length) with many ordinary Persians or Iranians, and the general sense is that his election happened largely as a response to the Bush Cabal take over of the US. You know GW starting talking PLENTY of shit even before the Iranians elected Ahmadinejad.

Why? Well, it can probably be chalked up to the standard response of most societies when they are under attack by a foreign power. They choose the big, bad, conservative/nationalist type shit talker, to counter the same from the offenders. (in this case, the US). The other thing is that even those Iranians who didn’t or don’t particularly like Ahmadinejad, are VERY protective of their civilian nuclear program, and the Cheney Cabal has made it clear from day one, that they want to use THAT as an excuse to take over the Iranian oil. (Just like the non-existent WMD were used to invade Iraq).

so...there we are

By Rus7355, September 25 at 11:07 am #

Actually he is hostile to the regime occuping power in the U.S. government and Israel, so am I. 

Hopefully I think we can change that real soon.

I thought those rich, stereotypical jewish bankers that populate wall street were suppose to be smart, what happened?  I guess they can always flee to Israel if the going gets too tough, a la Mark Rich.

They are more of a national problem to Americans than Ahmadinejad.

“…It’s a little dumb trying to make this a purely Republican or Bush issue.

This is a Democrap controlled congress, and nothing can happen without Democrats getting on board the heist.  That is not a debatable point….”
~~~~~~~~
Actually COS, It IS a debatable point, and from a number of perspectives. You are generally pretty much on spot with your posts, but here, you miss an important historical context, as well as the reality of real politick. There is also a linguistic issue here.

First the linguistic issue, which is tied to the real politick: The Congress may (NOW) have a *majority* of Democrats, (51% or more in either chamber) but that does NOT mean that they are ‘in control.’ The amount of ‘control’ that any party has in Congress has everything to do with how the rules are set at the beginning of each new Congressional session, to determine what percentage of anything is required to pass or block any given legislation. Some things continue to remain the same, ie…the confirmation of any nominee to the Supreme Court. Only the Senate votes on those confirmations, and that’s when we see party lines most clearly. I think 4 democrats crossed party lines to confirm Alito. More for Roberts. But much of the legislation for anything else originating in House, (which is where it starts) requires a 2/3 majority of the entire body, to pass on to the next chamber.

Meantime, the CURRENENT Congress has a very SMALL democrat majority in both chambers. And that’s where the historical context comes in. Until this 110th Congress created in 2005, to commence in 2006, the REPUBLICANS have CONTROLLED the Congress for the pervious 14 years. (give or take, I’d have to go back over the numbers). And my point is that ALL of the shit that is hitting the fan NOW, was incorporated by and for a republican majority in the Congress for well over a decade. That’s just the way it is, and that’s not debatable. We can agree that during the Clinton Era, when he was ALWAYS saddled with a republican congress, he DID sign on to many of these republican measures, and so he certainly can be held responsible for it. On the other hand, that too, is real politick. I don’t know the numbers involved in some of the worst of this legislation, but certainly there have been laws that he could have vetoed, and didn’t.

Having said that, this largest part of the CRASH, is very much republican, and very much Dick Bush. (I hate that we call this a bush administration, because it’s actually a Cheney Administration, and Cheney has been pulling MOST of the strings for a least 2 decades if not longer, and ALL of them since 2000) He was only out of commission for a portion of the Clinton Era, which is when he took over Halliburton with the intent of incorporating it into the government, following The Coup of 2000.
Speaking of which…there is sort of a ‘given’ in the legal community (been this way for over a decade now) that all BAD LAW originates in Texas. It’s true. We can trace the majority of the theft to corporate entities that were either headquartered in Texas, (Halliburton, Enron, and at least a third of the OIL industry) or to the legislation introduced by TEXANS in Congress, such as Phil Graham, and Richard Cheney. There are others, like Tom Delay, who have been very instrumental in the heist as well. So again, this is VERY MUCH a republican blame.

It’s also totally ludicrous to suggest that Obama has raked in more contributions from Wall Street than anyone is history. That’s simply STUPID. If you wanna know who the historical ‘Wall Street’ winners are, look at the OIL industry, and the INSURANCE industry, and the Pharmaceutical Industry, and that very helpful chronology of ALL the bailouts of the past 2 decades, and you’ll see who the ‘winners’ and the heisters have actually been.

Thanks to P. Henry and others citing Marcy Kaptur’s speech in the House. 

There’s a patriot.

If you haven’t watched it, please do.  I’m copying the link here for your convenience:

http://bloggerinterrupted.com/2008/09/video-marcy-kapt ur-an-ohio-congresswoman-puts-a-beatdown-on-bush-bailout

Is this the beginning of an uprising?  The whole internet is buzzing with disgust and outrage.  Here we see that the Congress does not represent the interests of the PEOPLE of the USA.

Except for a few, such as that congress woman from Ohio, who actually want to enforce the law and PROSECUTE the guilty for CRIMES.

It’a little dumb trying to make this a purely Republican or Bush issue. 

Obama has raked in more bribes—I mean campaign contributions —from Wall Street than anyone else (in history?).  Is it any wonder he’s not opposing this rape and plunder?

This is a Democrap controlled congress, and nothing can happen without Democrats getting on board the heist.  That is not a debatable point.

http://crimesofthestate.blogspot.com/

Before they got to that point there was a “get rich quick” craze going on and everybody and his brother became an overnight realtor by “flip that house.” or two or three or four, renting them or just fixing them up, and profiting by the fast rising house prices caused by the craze. 
We can argue who is to blame, apparently both the home buyer and the lender is at fault. The lender acted recklessly and lent and lent and competed to lend. Mortgage and title companies were popping up all over leading the owners like sheep before the slaughter.
The balance of fault lies on the degree of greed. Could you blame the average Joe that wanted to get rich quick or the banks who should have had more sense. 
Now we know how we got there lets propose how to get out. Giving 700 million to the same banks who got us here, paid for by the average Joe’s taxes and not only that but, Joe must barrow the money with interest just to give it to the ones who lent Joe the money for the house that he is now foreclosed on. That’s like Joe borrowing money to give to heroin dealers in order to make sure they have a steady supply of heroin that he could sell him.
We have another option but of course it will not be considered because the government thinks it is in their best interest to help the banks thinking it will save Wall Street. We have to let the air out of the balloon by getting the prices of home closer to the year 2000. The way we can do that is instead of giving the money directly to the banks; give it to the notes that are over priced. Let’s start with Joe’s house and his only house for now. If he paid let’s say $200,000 and he is in foreclosure, reset the value to the year 2003. That means rewriting the note. The year used adjusting the house value would be determined on until the 700 billion is allocated to first every homeowner that will occupy that house. This will in no doubt cause values to come down all over. This plan could be implemented to the relevance of importance. The homeless first then to the struggling families aiming at the outrageously over priced homes, this will hurt the rich and humble undeserving. There are Joe’s out there that flipped houses until he bestowed on half a million dollar house with an income that can’t support it. He should eventually be included in this bill.
It all comes down to the basics, supply & demand. Now the supply is high. By slashing prices will create gamut of demand. New loans, transparency and credit will flow like neighborhoods at a block-party. This is the way to bailout Main Street & Wall Street.

This is another way to bail us out
By James Messina

First let’s go back to the beginning starting at bubble, although I’d rather refer it to a balloon. In the year 2000 just after post doomsday Y2K the balloon was just placed on stem of the tank of air. During that year a house let’s say in Holiday Florida would average at $50-60k. During that same year there were many types of easy loans such as HUD and Veteran (it wasn’t necessary to actually be a Vet one just got a little better rate) which made it very easy for the average individual with $500 and job to obtain approval. Section 8 had a role in this also. If they had 20% of the price of the home they didn’t even need a job. Actually they did, but what was referred to as a “no doc” all they had to do is just say they had an income.
Now here is where the air valve just barley inflates the balloon. Keep in mind that Holiday Florida is just a reference point and places like California and Miami holds the same principle just different prices. These loans usually carried an ARM which meant 5 years down the road Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac would be tacking on another 2.5-3% interest. These easy loans owners had to put their signatures to selling their souls sort of speak, compounded by falling prices.

Scheer asks, ‘does it matter which party is in charge...?  Not if the Dems rollover...’

The Dems didn’t roll over. They are helping to LEAD the bailout.  They have DRAFTED the legislation for the bipartisan bailout.  Had their aides stay up all night to do it.  It has to be done fast before the population understands the implications of what this swindle entails, which is why Bush and the media are stampeding the population with the ususual fear tactics.  THE WHOLE ECONOMY IS IN DANGER!  Unless we let the rich raid the treasury.

And a large fraction of the population still identify with the Dems, progressives like Kucinich.  This is not simply a matter of voting for them, which is undeerstandable given the alternatives, but expecting that they might provide a solution.  That voting for anyone in an obsolete and rigged electoral system will provide a solution.

Nothing demonstrates the emptiness of US’s fake Democracy than this bailout for the rich, a huge swindle of the population, just before a presidential election.  The population has no power at all, is disconnected from the US power system.  Progressives are neutalized by the Dems, who support the rich and powerful under the guise of promoting the interests of the ‘middle class’ (there is no ‘working class’ in the American mainstream truth.)

So now the Dems must persuade the population to accept cuts in welfare and infrastructure, because
there just isn’t any money!  No Dem has suggested cutting the military budget, because the power strucure will need the military to use against the Amererican population.  Thar divisions to do so are now based in Colorado in schematic form, waiting for reinforcements when martial law is declared. 

The American people do not understand that if 5 million angry Americans met in Washington, that the economy would miraculously recover without the need of a bailout.  Getting five million there is a bigger problem, but Americans don’t understand yet how we can exert power. It is not that we are afraid to demonstrate, we are afraid to THINK about demonstrated.

But there is no end to this raiding.  Once they succeed, and there is money still left in the treasury, they will do it again and again.  Unless the population prevents them.  And this must be done in the face of the Gops calling them names and the Dems pleading with them to be Responsible and Rational.

The Financial Class is indeed getting brazen.  Naomi Klein points out that Paulson’s proposal was written on three pages rather than in a document the size of the OED, as they are wont to do. They’re starting to come out from behind their masks: small government, poverty programs are for charity, the government provides freedom and that’s it, evangelism, law and order, traditional family values and on and on.  What they’re after and what they’ve always been after is the money, stupid.  With the money comes the power.  (Financial firms are starting to flood the pols with contributions in preparation for a place at the trough.) With the power, I hope they gain some gonads and like, Paulson did with the 3-page document, come right out and say it to the people, “If you don’t like, go (Cheney’s advice to O’Leary)”
But then again Paulson is the son of a wealthy jewelry dealer from Palm Springs, FLA who played football at Dartmouth without a helmut.  Not for reasons ascribed to Gerald Ford by LBJ, but because he was reared as a Christian Scientist and thought he could think his way out of it.  So, maybe with a nice suit and forceful demeanor Paulson can get Joe and Sandra Christian Six-Pack to go along with the plan with just half smile and hardy handshake. 
I do wish that they’d make a formal announcment that the Democracy is Over.  The tension is murder on my sleep.

Right on! Can you imagine if a Democratic President proposed this? The mad dogs of the Republican crime family would be foaming at the mouth. Here is a Republican proposal for a blank check, no oversight, having taxpayors buying junk at par value, they want us to pay 100 cents on the dollar for stuff trading at 20-30 cents in the free market? The buildup to sell this turkey sounds just like the buildup to sell the Iraq war, make us fearful and afraid for the economy now, the country before. This is bull****! Where is leadership instead of crybabies?

Patrick Henery,

Great Link, everyone should listen to her, finally a politician who makes sense of nonsense. Hell, I would vote for her as president.

Do you know what the rest of Congress did with her speech?  After cleaning their finger nails? Timing of this whole mess is suspicious, as she addressed and very relevant.Deadbeats in congress better appreciate it, in fact we should be watching them a lot closer.

Ramming this through or even doing it at all seems so suspicious as she stated. More people need to be aware of the crap we have been fed by Colonel Klink as an insider from day one, this bail out after bail out needs to stop.

Russ7355,

Apparently you weren’t listening, especially to the opening bullshit of his speech.  Absolutely everything he said he based on his religious beliefs and no one I’ve read on TD does that, at least not the rational commenters, whether or not they believe in a deity. 

Ahmadinejad is a religious zealot, which negates, in my mind, anything he says and makes him a very dangerous person to be in power.

@ Dr. Knowitall, PhD, PhD;

Listen to Palin on a video at her church.

Cyrena, North Korea has restarted its Nuke and Ahmadinejad stood before the UN and ran up one side of the US and down the other.  Look for Bully Boy Bush to hit someone--soon. 

This is off subject.  I can understand Ahmadinejad’s resolve vis a vis Bush, but I have never listened to so much “God” bullshit come from one mouth in so little time as I heard from him at the UN.  No wonder ordinary people in the world are at such risk of annihilation.

Paulson looks like the typical caricature of a Nazi from Hollywood central casting all the way day to the bent pinky. I noticed his voice was firm, but his hands were shaking.
The mere fact that they have been setting this up for some time, but now claim urgency is a dead giveaway that they are trying to ram it through. The usual modus operandi to prevent opportunity for any growing opposition. Problem is so many Dems were complicit in setting up the scenario they can’t really mount any outrage when they are trying to cover their own backside and want a massive bailout rather than continuing to let the dominos falling one after the next. Why is consolidation of these finicial giants continuing considering the “too big to fail” line? And if lack of credit is the problem, well wasn’t too ready credit the problem? And finally, since they aren’t apply the necessary regulatory fixes to prevent this from continuing to occur--how can anyone justify continuing to fund them at our expense?
Why doesn’t anyone ask?

@ PatrickHenry;

Thanks for that gem.  Marcy Kapt hit every point; she’s awesome.  Now, will “we” listen?

Finally a congresswoman worth her weight.

Well worth the watch.

http://bloggerinterrupted.com/2008/09/video-marcy-kapt ur-an-ohio-congresswoman-puts-a-beatdown-on-bush-bailout