Sepharad—Your defense of Zionist oppression is the usaal one intended for Americ;an liberals and progressives; you are for a Palistinian state, against Israeli oppression, etc.  Most of the Israeli power system adopts this ideological posture while increasing settler occupation, torturing and murdering Palestinians, starving Palistinain children, and increasing support for ethnic cleansing—called Transfer.

You operatively support Aipac and Likud policies while assuaging liberal, and your own, guilt for unjustifiable oppression. There is no opposition from the Jewish community that vigorously attacks Aipac and the Licud option of Transfer, which current US policy leads to.  You support Israeli oppression in the same way that the Dems support US power oppression, with liberal and progressive bullshit.  fortunately, this is increasingly less effective with the American people.

Re: Sepharad, September 19 at 11:44 pm 1 of 2

•  “Cyrena—The French role in Dimona and much more in one place is probably most accessible in Seymour Hersch’s “The Sampson Option” (Random House, NY, 1991). ..Actually, my major concern at the moment is not Israel but whether lichen & Outraged are right re the pointlessness of voting for Obama as he rejected Nader’s offer to come aboard and is sounding more and more like just another center-right pol. I’ve resisted their conclusions, but they may be right in saying it’ll take a large, angry social reform movement to make any substantive changes in our government.”
Sepharad,

Thank you so very much for your informative response. I’m particularly appreciative of the reference, since I’m a very appreciative consumer of Seymour Hersch’s work. (IOW, I’m inclined to generally trust his research and analysis, and I do in fact make it a point to look for his take on most of what I know I don’t have access to myself). I’ve NOT read “The Sampson Option” however, and so I will.

I also appreciate the bulk of your most recent post to others, since you convey much of what I’ve always known myself, specifically in terms of what the Israeli PEOPLE actually think, feel, and believe is best for themselves and their state, as opposed to what we see from the actions of the Israeli government. HOWEVER, MOST AMERICANS are simply NOT aware of things like the fact that ALL Israelis serve in the IDF, and that this is simply a ‘given’, based on an ideology that most Americans simply cannot and do not understand. One ‘clue’ here, is the seemingly righteous and indignant distain for the fact that so called politico’s are allegedly calling for a draft here in the US. (as evidenced by the post from Folktruther). But, he/she is not alone in such indignation, DESPITE the fact that the US Constitution CLEARLY references ‘conscription’ within its blue print. What country DOESN’T have a military, and how exactly does any country come up with one?

But I digress. In respect to the concerns displayed by both Outraged and lichen, mine are not the same as yours, and for probably different reasons. One is the irony of the fact that it has been only during the past few months, that Outraged has turned so bitterly against Obama, and some of the rationale has been suspect in my opinion, because unlike the recent appearance of lichen, Outraged has posted here for a very long time, (at least as long or longer than I have and that’s nearly 2 years) and has always been a pragmatic and reasonable thinker. And while there have been the ostensible reasons posted here, for her switched allegiance from Obama to Nader, (the FISA vote and the so-called faith based initiative proposals which are no different than the multiple NGO’s that Nader has established, or the many peace groups that you reference yourself), the history seems to point to the speech that Obama made to AIPAC, and what she (and many) considered to be a pandering to the Israel lobby.
 
To be continued

2 of 2 re: By Sepharad, September 19 at 11:44 pm

In fact, I was HIGHLY criticized/attacked right here on this site, and for an extended period of time when I attempted to explain the pragmatism and what I believed Obama to be attempting to accomplish from that address, even while I disapproved of parts of it myself. So the ‘connection’ that I see to the support of Nader, (and even McKinney to a lesser degree) is their longstanding and well known criticism of Israel. THAT is a cornerstone of the Nader campaign, and while I find some elements of validity in that, I simply don’t believe that to be the only reason to vote for him. It’s simply more of the same of voting *against* one candidate rather than voting *for* another.

There is nothing to be gained from that, and I would reference Folktruther’s post @By Folktruther, September 19 at 6:52pm, where he writes this:

•  “However Aipac and the US media take this to mean the destruction of the Israeli PEOPLE, setting of the fears of the Jewish population.  The distinction between the power system and the people has been purposely obscured and conflated. …The most destructive aspect of Israel is its partial hijacking of US foreign and domestic policy.  This is most publically visible in its pressure to have the US attack Iran, and insane,immoral and disastrous act.”

I agree with folktruther 100% in his assessment here, but I also know that Obama recognizes that as well.

Meantime, the suggestion that *Obama* has refused to get onboard with *Nader* reflects more of the same cruel irony. Based on my perception, it is NADER who refuses to ‘get on board’ with anybody else. Just a quick look at history will clearly bear this out.

At any rate, I already see a large and in some cases angry social movement/revolution to elect Obama. Now maybe that’s because I’m in a mostly younger and environment in the West, where we have always been more focused on progressive ideals. I can’t provide any lengthy analysis of that, but it’s what I see in my own State (California) and my own immediate environment. In fact, as I sit here blogging, the folks from the Santa Barbara chapter of the effort to elect Obama are all over the place, making sure that people are registered to vote, and signing up volunteers at the same time.

The apartheid Israel power system does NOT have the right to exist.  It should be DESTROYED, as South Africa’s was.  However Aipac and the US media take this to mean the destruction of the Israeli PEOPLE,
setting of the fears of the Jewish population.  The distinction between the power system and the people has been purposely obscured and conflated.

The most destructive aspect of Israel is its partial hijacking of US foreign and domestic policy.  This is most publically visible in its pressure to have the US attack Iran, and insane,immoral and disastrous act.

Aipac also backed Jane Harman to sponsor the thought control bill, which would gut the internet of free criticism.  The bill passed the House 400+ to 6: I would guess they are waiting until after the election for the Senate to pass it.

By Sepharad, September 19 at 12:30 pm #

You view is definitely pro Israel but I would argue that it is pro American.

You stated:

“I also believe that we should do much better taking care of our people who are old, sick, poor—and especially returning vets and their families. (That’s probably something else that you’d dispute.)”

I believe the billions given Israel and other nations can be better served in the VA hospitals here in America. I am a former US Marine combat vet and I do know the price, mentally and physically that wars cost firsthand.

Israel does nothing but isolate America in the court of world public opinion by its mistreatment of their minorities and provocative rhetoric against its neighbors(if they can do it to one they can do it to all). 

The continual spying against the U.S. at all levels of the military and government doesn’t help their case with me either.

Re: By Sepharad, September 19 at 12:30 pm

“Oh—whatever nuclear technology the Israelis have or do not have, it all came initially from the French but very discreetly: the French had their colonies in that region as well as King Oil to consider. I don’t think there is a country in the first world that has not sold arms to one side or the other, sometimes both, in the Middle East.”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sepharad,

Setting aside the FACT that we *DO KNOW* that Israel maintains an impressive nuclear arsenal (clearly enough to wipe out the entire region) and has for over 30 years, this is the first and only time that I’ve ever heard that ‘it all came initially from the French’, discreetly or otherwise.

That said, I’m overwhelmingly interested in ‘reading up’ on such claims. Is there someplace you might direct me/us to learn more of this? I’d be most appreciative.

On a slightly different note, do you really suspect that Israel could or would ever have a place on the UN Security Council????? I mean, REALLY!!! I agree that Sudan certainly isn’t the poster country for Human Rights, but can we be reasonable here? Israel maintains a nuclear arsenal and totally avoids any oversight of it since they refuse to sign on to the NPT. Then there’s that issue with Palestine. Remember them? Gaza? The West Bank?

You talk a lot about your conviction to Israel’s ‘right to exist’. I’m wondering if that isn’t a bit of a red herring, seeing as how Patrick Henry has repeated what most American’s (who even have a clue) also agree to. MOST of us believe that Israel has a right to exist!!! Multiple international documents, agreements, etc, etc, provide for Israel’s right to exist, (though it’s interesting that they won’t create a Constitution) so THAT isn’t the argument.

No, the argument is whether or not Israel ‘has the right’ to practice genocide, ethnic cleansing, and apartheid. THAT is the question, and that’s what’s been the question since the inception of Israel as a Zionist State. Do they have THAT right?

The rest of the International Community, (and all of the laws, treaties, conventions, etc) make it very clear that they DO NOT! Those agreements, treaties, conventions, are as clear as the paperwork that gives Israel the right to exist. So that’s the problem, if you get my point. Do you get the contradiction there?

And of course there’s Patrick Henry’s concern that is obvious to the rest of us as well…What about Israel’s right to exist also obligates the US taxpayers to support them with billions of our dollars?

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/120052091/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

Here you go, Frank. I could list many more.(I did—Haley, Arieti, Laing, etc.) Perhaps you have had experiences with a different population.

BTW—If “our” mh system is so great, why do 33,000 people commit suicide every year.

Jay Haley, Milton Ericksson—brief systemic therapy / paradoxical intention.

Surely youve heard of it, Frank. Maybe if we had more community mental health centers, that were properly funded—suicide would not be such a problem.

I think that forced meds, ECT etc. are violent and immoral (unless someone is a danger to somone else)

Of course, you can just hospitalize someone, and when their insurance runs out—you can refer them to someone like me,if they are stil able to communicate when you guys are done medicating and isolating them.

I was answering a question as to psyhology as a tool to changing the govt/systems. I said that they should not be left alone. I indicated that you had to know the client.

I also believe in the dignity of risk. It is that persons’ life, you know. Not yours. You do all you can. But, if it is continuously threatened, with the same people, who are your clients (your govt??) , and you do the same thing—did it ever occur to you that youre enabling them? Maybe you would do better to try to find out why they feel that they have to threaten suicide for you to show that you care about them.

Maybe you were able to hospitalize your clients (I’m satil not sure that it is usually warranted, nor helpful) When you have someone who has already been intstitutionalized, just try to get them hospitalized. ON Medicaid. Or just turn them over to someone who gets paid less.

Hospitalizing people is infantalizing them. You make lifetime clients. But not very effective human beings.

them.

Frank Cajon-“we have the best mental health system on earth”

Really?  Why are all those people on the streets talking to themselves?  How come returning soldiers are not treated for stress syndromes?  If our mental health systems are so good, why is their so much drug abuse?

Or by “we” do you mean the small fraction of the professional and ruling class that can afford the fees of therapists.

I hope your kidneys are better too, but frankly, Frank, you seem to have lost contact with political and social reality.  I suggest you see a good non-professional.

By Sepharad, September 18 at 9:41 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Thank you for that concise background from your obvious pro Israel perspective.

Our government often reacts on flimsy evidence if not fabricated.

I guess selling armaments in that part of the world is a reason to be a cause celebre.

Frank Cajone,

I’m glad you’re back. Sorry to hear about the kidney surgery, but I’m assuming that it went well, and that’s always good.

I have a dear friend who underwent kidney surgery last month. It was to provide a kidney to his brother, who needed it. Both are recovering well.

Speedy recovery to you too.

KD: While I was away (having kidney surgery), I note that you made a post about some traveling lecturer’s posit on how to handle an individual with suicidal ideation, and I am feeling bad enough that it touches a nerve.
I may and probably by the circumstances must, not having any interest in his book, be taking those remarks out of context, but he is dangerously uninformed about the subject and cavalier about it as well. And, I presume, has never had a real live person make a real suicide threat to him. A treatment therapist on an outpatient treatment ward in a typical urban city or county may encounter ten in a day. And must handle every one as if it is a matter of life and death, because it very well may be.
Last year, over 33,000 people took their own lives in the US; that is over two thirds as many that died in all types of transportation accidents (including auto) combined. We have one of the best mental health systems on earth (though it is low on the guns and butter list of government and private priorities of this decade) but it is trumped in many ways by the highest handgun ownership per capita and the highest drug abuse statistics. Let’s just say that this is an area best left for experts and your author isn’t one, and his bravura is bullshit and does far more harm than good.

By Sepharad, September 17 at 3:50 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Don’t look now but your racist banter is showing.

I support Israels right to exist as I do Palestine.  I just don’t want one dollar of my taxpayer money to pay for this semite family feud.  Moreover, I want all dual nationals out of the US government.

As always, you use the old ADL tactic of lumping Israel with jews everywhere, so criticism against one is inextricably linked to criticism against all.

On an earlier post you stated:

“From a strictly Israeli perspective, if JFK was the most helpful President to Israel, using good criteria, good judgment and standing behind country for the right reasons, I believe George Bush has been the worst President”

Actually JFK was on Israels’ ass for contructing Dimona and wanted them to come clean on nuclear material and open up for inspection…. to this day they haven’t.  Name one thing which JFK did that caused him to be a celebrity there.

cyrena—youre absolutely right.

I’m afraid your right, KDelphi, as class inequality increases and things get worse for the general population, the possiblity of resolving things peacefully gets more remote.  The American power system, as people try to take back power, is likely to treated the American population the way it has treated Iraqi’s, Palestinians and Afghans.  It has already started to do so and both parties support it.

By KDelphi, September 15 at 4:45 pm #

•  “cyrena—is someone standing with a gun to your head , making you read my posts or refer to them? I hope not. HOw did I kow that it wouldnt be Frank’s last post? Dont make it your last one. This site is full of peole diagnosing each other. I just dont like to see .person who’s professional use it to try to make other peopleok like they dont know anything. ….”

~~~~~
KDelphi,

What the hell are you talking about? Does this actually refer or relate to something that you’ve written? It doesn’t have anything to do with what I’ve written. And, while your problem(s) may be unfortunate, and while I may have a limited measure of empathy for you, when you write stuff out of the blue like this, it just confirms that you’re out of your fucking mind, and apparently simply have no life outside of truthdig or common dreams. (I hear you post all over the place there are well, but I’ve not had time to really get into any other site.) Because, well…I DO have a life.

Maybe you should try to get one.

Folk—I think youre talking about Erickson. Milton Erickson.

Folktruther—I’m not sure. I’m not that knowledgable about politics, as a science. Let me look at it from the angle I understand better.

Joel Bergman in “Fishing for Barracuda” had some of thiose ideas. For example, if a client comes in every week and says “I think I’m just going to kill myself”, if youve already tried the “If you just want to have coffee for a few minutse tonight, instead of being alone—why dont you just say so” approach, you say, “That is blackmail. It is a friday. When you sisgned on for thaerapy, you gave me the names of three kin and friends. If you insist on saying that, I will have to put out a 24-hr suicuide watch. Your mother, best friend, etc. wil have to promise to stay with you {this usualy does it!! lol} all the time, until you are no longer suicidal. Otherwise, I wil have to hospitalize you or we wil sit right here and not speak. I dont want to upset you. I must have been pushing you too hard”

Of course, that is a little estreme, but, if someone just keeps saying it, and you spend al weekend with your beeper on, and then they just really want company, then, of course, they wil NOT want to spend 24 hrs a day with their (whoever) and wil admit it, and you can go about discussing how they can create, (and you can help them create) a more healthy way of getting attention and more healthy realtionships with people. Some think that this is risky, but you cant hospitalize people for what they might do. It’s known as systemic therapy (that might be what youre talking abvout)or paradoxical intention.

Clients get “institutionalized” , when theyve been hospitalized too long, , or if just thrown into the communsity, go into isolation, and some think that that is the only way to get attention.It is understandable. People feel that they must maintain the homeostasis- the “parent” of the “group” uses “agents” who defend the “parent” and the status quo.(party??)As everyone knows, change is painful—its evolutinary. If youre not dying, your body pretty much says “Why change?”, even if it might be for the better.

Bergman was snorkeling in the Red Sea, when he asked if the baracuda would attack him. his friend replied, “Only if you show fear.” (In systems theory, you change one single part of the whole—all the parts must change to accomodate it. Sometimes its doesnt matter that much WHAT you change.) I could relate to this, as I used to dive where there were alot of barracudas. If they approach, you back up—they chase. If you go forward to meet them—they back off.

I suppose within a govt system, you need to change something—it almost dosent matter what, at first. It will upset the system, the old guard will moan, and it wil be painful. But things will never change if you go along in the same manner. Does that make sense? You also cannot change a person within the system without a paradigm shift—If you only discuss change and dont demand or expect it, you merely stablize the system.(The system is “saying”, “Is this good enough?”) You have to de-stalblilize it , or there is never enough motivation to change. This is unlike the Shock Doctrine, in that, the persons experiencing the change, the ones most vulnerable,  are suported by those withn the system, as it changes. Pardon, but, to each his need.

Someone said it better—“What is of all things most yielding, can overcome that which is most hard.

That the yielding conquers the resistant and the soft conquers the hard is a fact known by all men, yet utilized by none…”  Lao Tzu

Probably alot more than you wanted to know or hear. But, as things get rougher for hte average person, the chance of changing it without alot of blood, just gets more and more remote. If this govt wants to preserve capitalism , in any form, including socialized or regulated, it had better act soon, and with more than platitudes.

You know, KDelphi, there was a psychitrist-I’ll eventually think of his name- about a half century ago who had a great deal of success in treating schizophrenics, which as you probably know are not usually amenable to talk therapy.  He had a whiny, unpleasant voice and would NAG his patients to reality.

If a patient said he was going to kill himself he would NAG them, “Well, why aren’t you doing it, why are you just lying there, etc, etc.”  (they were institutionalized and constantly watched.)

In order to get away from that voice, they began to prefer reality.  I’ve often wondered if this could be used as a political technique.

R. D. Laing, Jay Haley (his short-term therapy—I figured it was a gimmick to get people out of therapy early save moneyuntil I took a class from a professor that pacticed it) and Silvano Arieti’s “Interpretation of Schizophrenia”.

There is also a place in Vermont (The House—I visited it) that practicse some Laing’s old Kingdom Hall mileiu therapy. (Burlington)

Joel Bergman’s “Fishing for Barracuda” is good—and really funny.

Just thought I’d throw in som eof my favorite authors, since Laing was mentioned.

I like the concept of ‘willful ignorance’, Crimes. The mainstream media maintains a public attitude of willful ignorance about those truths that would subvert the mainsteam American ideology.  Noam Chomsky and Alexander Cockburn are leftists who exemplify it, also subscribing to the mainstream Lonely Assassin theory, that political deaths are the result of single assassins who were lonely in their childhood.  Scheer subscribed to it implicitly in his sanitizing the FBI hounding Ivens to death.

But you shouldn’t be too hard on Frank Cajon.  He is afterall an Educated professional who identifies with his profession- there isn’t much that you can expect. The mental health profession teaches their clients to adjust to an insane power system, they’re being insane if they don’t do so.  The preconceptions of the field, with the except of deviants like Laing, is that power is always right.

That and a lack of cojones characterizes Frank Cojon, and we are trying to get him to redeem himself by a perceptive analysis of the Bushite regime.  Unlikely, true, but all sinners are captable of redemption, so I’ve been told and believe, and should be given every chance.  Hate the sin and love the sinner, insofar as we poor mortals can.

Jesus, Frank, do you know any other refrains?

IS THIS THING ON?

The question, when you explicitly bash “Truthers” is whether we do or do not know the truth about the 9/11 attacks.

I have proven repeatedly that we do not.  You have ignored every one of my posts, references and arguments in favor of your repeating the same framing over and over in Rovian fashion:

“...Israeli agents taking over planes and planning the 9/11 attacks (to me-relax, Truthers, just an opinion, and I have said it here before) resemble blogs I found on a reactionary fringe rightwing website in 2005, or the ones last year did.”

The term is “cover-up”, Frank.  Nearly 200 Israelis were arrested and detained.  The specifics are covered up.  Therefore, ergo, we do not know the truth.  Evidently this does not matter to you whatsoever (not a unique position in this climate of willful ignorance). 

“I think the facts about 9/11 are a bit fuzzy and that rational explanations for it shouldn’t be dismissed out of hand, and also that you can be VERY much against the current regime (I am, and will vote for Obama) and still unconvinced they are responsible for staging the attacks.”

The “current regime” which you repeatedly claim to oppose is the reason that the facts are “fuzzy.” 

Not all of them are “fuzzy” by the way.  Your casual relationship with them is fuzzy.  Your outrageous “diagnoses” of people you don’t know at all is real fuzzy.  I think your claim of being a “professional” also merits the “fuzzy” label.

You know you have no response to my direct, pointed, and sourced facts.  So you obfuscate and misdirect, attempting to make this about “anti-Semitism” which you continually resurrect, exposing your lack of knowledge of the subject matter.

To you, of course, there is no need to become familiar with the issue.  Ignorance is bliss.

Seeing how you have admitted that the “facts” are “fuzzy” I take that as an admission that you don’t believe you know the full truth about the 9/11 attacks, despite belligerent posturing in the other direction.

I guess the only thing left is to explain why you don’t care to know.  That’s the point of cognitive dissonance here.  You admit your understanding of the most important event of the millenium is “fuzzy” at best, but you have no compunction pressing you to remedy the situation and demand disclosure and independent investigation into the 9/11 attacks.

Rather, you have shamefully attacked those who do stand up.  If this pattern weren’t repeated so often and in “alternative” media that should know better, it could be ignored.  Your arrogance is indicative of a sick mindset, one that would rather attack dissidents than the obvious cover-up artists responsible for this mess in the first place (‘on their watch’).

Heal thyself.

http://crimesofthestate.blogspot.com/

The Senate Hearing is not being shown on C-SPAN< so that the public can be treated to 4 hrs. of hearing GOP scream, “Drill, baby drill”. It is, however on C-SPAN.org, in case anyone is interested. It is a good hearing—I dont know if anything will happen, but it is worth a look-see, if people could take a break from Palin for a couple hrs.

cyrena—is someone standing with a gun to your head , making you read my posts or refer to them? I hope not.

HOw did I kow that it wouldnt be Frank’s last post? Dont make it your last one. This site is full of peole diagnosing each other. I just dont like to see person who’s professional use it to try to make other peopleok like they dont know anything.

I dont like it when peole use their education to explain why they cant explain exactly why they disagree. It’s like, when al else fails, just say, “Well, I should know and you dont!”

If Bolshevism, devolving into Stalism is what made “socialism” so terrible, how about not blaming socialism, but, the devolvng into Stalinism.  I dont think Bush “forgot” that a democracy “has to protect the minorities”—I dont think that he believes it has to. I , further, dont think he gives rat’s ass. I think everything in the US , including the two parties, is based on money, and not much else. But, that’s just what I see.

Feingold is having a hearing on restoring constitutional rights that Bush has screwed us out of. It wil be on C-SPAN.org (live) at 10:15 AM tomorrow. That’s EST. Just in cse anyone is interested.

Sepherad: I read your post, and decided to reply since I stirred up a bit of a nest with my comments earlier but stand by them. I know that the Truthers are very committed to the cause. I am familiar to an extent with Cyrena’s aviation background from last year, and her blogs have some insight that some of these other lack but also seem to leave the door open for another possibility. On the Zionist issue, which is a red flag here, I take the middle ground (which no one will be happy with, like last year). I recall that I was on another site dressing down the Israelis for the bombing of southern Lebanon in 2006 when I started posting here, and caught hell for being anti-Zionist myself; I think both sides in the Israel/Palestinian standoff are at fault in the long run and the US should not be arming both sides-and should be arming neither. On the other hand, the rabid theories about Israeli agents taking over planes and planning the 9/11 attacks (to me-relax, Truthers, just an opinion, and I have said it here before) resemble blogs I found on a reactionary fringe rightwing website in 2005, or the ones last year did. I think the facts about 9/11 are a bit fuzzy and that rational explanations for it shouldn’t be dismissed out of hand, and also that you can be VERY much against the current regime (I am, and will vote for Obama) and still unconvinced they are responsible for staging the attacks.

http://palin-presidency-comedy.blogspot.com/

The Palin interviews: Ignorance in the service of the ultra-right
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/sep2008/paln-s15.shtml

the christian fundamentalists and islamists will be at war, if
only they didn’t take the rest of us down with them… oh, i forgot my jewish fundamentalist? couldnt they just all go to death valley and get it over and done with.

cyrena—thanks for the really constructive criticism!! Really!

Jack writes @ By jack, September 14 at 10:46 am, in response to this from KDelphi:

•  KDelphi, September 14 at 8:08 am—-I didnt see anyone here call you those things.Could you be…um…how shall I say—“suspicious”?? It’s hard to believe you are a socialist. I am amember of SP-USA . And a mem of APA?? I had you nailed as a shrink with yur emphasis on DIAGNOSIS. I simply feel that it is innapproriate for “professionals” tp diagnose people from a few posts. Psychology should never be used as a way to alienate someone, but to help them. Anythign else is misuse.
~~~~
Jack,
I just wanted to say that with KDelphi, it’s frequently, (nearly always) impossible to be sure WHO her comments are addressed to, because she specifically avoids using any names. Sometimes you can make a good enough guess if you search through the comments, but it’s never certain. That’s just ONE of the reason that makes any dialog with her far more work than what it’s worth. You might as well be talking to a tiny hole in a huge wall, and then craning your neck to hear from whatever direction or other tiny hole the response may or may not come from. It’s exhausting to try to follow a roller coaster thought process.

Meantime, I agree with you that the piece from Dennis Kucinich is excellent, and I’ve not yet seen it posted on any other sites, though by now it may be.

Folktruther, just as an ‘aside’, I thought I’d mention that the ‘fracture’ in the membership of the APA, (in this case that stands for the Psychologists Assoc and not the Allied Pilots Assoc) is actually greater than you may realize, IOW, more than just a few members are scandalized by the use of psychologists in the worst illegality that this regime has perpetrated…torture. In fact, there is much division, and it is as contentious as you can imagine, considering the issue at the center of it. I don’t know how things are situated at this moment, but it’s been very ugly for a while.

The same in happening within the legal community in regards to all of the other law breaks. Admittedly this is more at the academic level, but has by now spilled over to think tanks, the armed forces, (many of the JAG’s) and the State Department itself. Yes, even repuglicans, and especially conservatives (real conservatives) have been repulsed by all of these illegalities.

Granted it doesn’t all hit the web, (not nearly enough of it) but it’s there.

Frank—we could never slander the “mental health profession”—Its done just fine by itself. YOu came in here and saw that people were “still paranoid” and that your “hypothesis ” (I’ll give you that)was “BAD manic..blah, blah”. I would call that—well—sortve an “unprofesional” diagnosis.

Extrapyrimidal effects are NEVER boring! They have to MOVE constanly! Never bored, just cant figure out how to be stil ever again. USSR used them for torture. CIA has used ECT.

If using PhDs at Gitmo and black sites doesnt slander APA—i dont know what does. “My political beliefs are no one’s business”“—isnt that a little odd to say on a supposed left leaning blog? I read everything Dennis writes that i can find.Some people think that HE is crazy. If you come with a “professional opinion”, but, youre not diagnosing, I guess youre following the letter of thw law, but not the spirit.

Frank Cajon- your last statement is fine with me.  Don’t go away on my account.  There might have been a little misunderstnnding about calling people crazy who were sincerely trying to make sense of the senseless, but if you didn’t mean to do it, fine.  Comment like everyone else. A psych slant might be interesting and useful, since our rulers appear to be demented. I certainly am willing to forget the matter since it is resolved.

However, as to the mental health profession, I’m afraid I have strong doubts.  American psychologists, with the apporval of their professional association,the APA, are currently assisting the US power system in torturing prisoners.  Over the objections of A FEW of their colleagues, notably a pscyhologist named Price. 

Since you identify openly with the mental health profession, and psychologists are part of it, there is a question as to what part of it you identify with, the APA or the protesters of torture.

Frank Cajone, another very good example of different ways to view part of this when we break it down into parts:

•  “I have some issues with some of the events surrounding the crash of AA 77 given the events a half hour earlier and have wondered if this was a result of a military screw up, unwillingness to shoot down a civvy airliner, or ?.”

The first of course, is that we have no proof that an airliner ever crashed into the Pentagon, AA 77 or any other jetliner. We know that SOMETHING hit/happened to cause the damage (and deaths) on that side of the structure that had been recently ‘fortified’, but there was never any sign of a 757 or any sign of a standard rescue response to that particular incident.

But set that element aside for a moment. To answer (or try to shed some light) on your issue, consider these two items for the list of ‘inconvenient facts’ of 9/11 that are conveniently posted here by COS.

•  5. Vice President Richard Cheney was placed in charge of anti-terrorism training and military preparedness exercises by Bush on May 8, 2001. This gave him command authority during the 9/11 attacks because as many as nine war game exercises involving military and intelligence agencies were occurring simultaneously.

•  6. The military’s “Air Piracy” regulations were rewritten on June 1st 2001 to require the “Secretary of Defense” to give “approval” for military escort aircraft in the event of a hijacking. Donald Rumsfeld gave no “approval” that day.

http://crimesofthestate.blogspot.com/2007/02/no-george-monbiot-these-are-facts-of.html
Now let me add to this from what has been the standard operating procedure for decades. ANY time a civilian aircraft (and its pilot(s)) finds itself in restricted (military only) airspace, for whatever the reason, it will also find itself immediately surrounded by ‘military escorts’. That was (at least until June 2001) a ‘given’. This isn’t something that I would say occurs ‘frequently’ (or did during my own 25 year career) but then ‘frequently’ is relative, and I’m hesitant to put a number on such occurrences. Maybe ‘occasionally’ would be more accurate. There are a few reasons why it might happen, and for the most part, it’s occurred with student or private aircraft pilots who have either not checked the charts or NOTAMS properly, (so they don’t realize they are in or near restricted airspace) or..they’re just hotshotting to ‘see what will happen’. One of my former flight instructors did that, (though I don’t know why he ever admitted it) and found himself in his tiny craft, surrounded by 3 military aircraft, left, right, and front. Again, it’s a ‘given’ in the protocol of US domestic aviation procedures.
But, it didn’t happen that day, and I don’t know that it should be considered a ‘screw-up’ by the military, since we now know that there were actually 15 War Games/Terror Drills taking place on 9/11. The resources for all of these drills were drawn from the resources that would have otherwise responded to any activity (like highjacking) in the Northeast Corridor. At least some of these drills involved moving “fighter planes to Northern Canada and Alaska, with introduced fake radar blips on the screens of military personnel and which deployed civilian and military aircraft in the guise of highjacked airliners.” (9/11 Synthetic Terror: Made in USA, Tarpley, 2005,2006)

More later…

Frank:

” If you don’t agree, fine, just don’t slander me or the mental health profession because I am not a part of the Truth Movement. “

Who slandered who first, Frank?  It was you.  Goodbye, good riddance, whatever. 

But, you’re on some shaky ground playing the victim after your first ignorant attacks on patriotic Americans who disagree over your ignorant non-analysis of the 9/11 attacks.

There’s no need for you to join a “movement” in order to admit that you do not know the truth, and there is indeed a cover up.  I have been proving this for 6 years now, and trust me you will not win any debate on the point.

The US senate admits that “foreign governments” were involved in attacking the US on 9/11, and that Bush is covering it up.  If that’s not enough to get you to open your eyes for half a second, then what’s it going to take, Frank?

Well folks, I only plan on one more post about this business since I am a member of several sites and don’t ‘chat room’ here. KDelphi: The APA condemns armchair diagnoses of anyone, like Monday morning quarterbacking. If you read my blog, I said ‘hypothesize’, and I have only done the stuff about W since I retired. I have ‘called’ no one on this or any blog anything except the leadership of this country fascists and I consider that an observation of truth rather than name calling. As for the business of extrapyramidal side effects and ECT, you already got in my grill for being too clinical. Let’s not bore everyone else.
As for my politics, other than what I previously put forth, they are really no one’s business, but rest assured that I don’t disagree with the statement that the current regime in DC is capable of the ‘murder of two or three thousand of their own American citizens’, I just think that murder is part of the 4400 soldiers in Iraq that have been sent to slaughter for oil and to line the pockets of contractors and arms dealers. If you don’t agree, fine, just don’t slander me or the mental health profession because I am not a part of the Truth Movement. BTW, I think Kucinich wrote a very good article, you should read it.

I didnt see anyone here call you those things.Could you be…um…how shall I say—“suspicious”?? It’s hard to believe you are a socialist. I am amember of SP-USA . And a mem of APA?? I had you nailed as a shrink with yur emphasis on DIAGNOSIS. I simply feel that it is innapproriate for “professionals” tp diagnose people from a few posts. Psychology should never be used as a way to alienate someone, but to help them. Anythign else is misuse.

If yu are a socialist , we must agree on alot of things. Let’s see-chavez-, mckinney, greens.-But, “diagnosing people”, for your own purposes is NOT professional, and reminds of tactics used by the neo-cons to brainwash/persuade people.(You know, how FrankLutz uses pop psychology?) Have you read Naomi Klein’s “Shock Doctrine”? I assume you dont use the phenothiazines (that were used for toruture under Stalin, Pinochet, and Mussolini)—they dont have a “side effect” of “parkinsonians symptoms”—they cause Parkinson’s—and should only be used when people wil likely harm themselves or others—I’ve asked a shrink to use it on ONE client. Is bipolar disorder (manic-depression) treated with talk therapy? Or do you refer them to a shrink? Just wondered , because that is whatyou called someone in here.

As APA , you would also not be involved in ECT. “Therapists” were not “a prob. 40 yrs ago”, as far as I know—you can just leave a therapists. Shrinks are a prob NOW and ever since their profession began. PhDs and Counselors should use talk therapy, mileiu therpay cognitive/behavioral. etc. If a person has a “chem imbalance inthe brain”, why does he not go to a neurologist? What is the purpose of a shrink? Just making a point—I assume you are not a shrink. But, if you arent I dont understand the emphasis on diagnossis, unles its for biling purposes.

cyrena is right that, if a conspiracy theory hangs arond long enough (as in Jesus was the son of god more than we would be, as opposed to what he prob. realy was—a rebel and a prophet)there is usually, at least some truth to it. I didnt hear people here say that it was “all or nothing”. As I would not put anythign past Bush (my diagnosis would be diff..—I wish youd stop doing this—he would be a borderline personality disorder—I’ll never do that again! Although we’ve seem alot more of Bush , to make a judgement, then iof peope on this site, so I say he’s fair game)

I’d have voted for Kucinich , if I could have.

As for all of your qualifications, I will look over your vitae carefully, and get back to you , if we have an oppening. (I’m just kidding! LIghten up!)

Frank Cajon- I ddn’t blow up at you because you don’t believe the neocons could have been involved in the 9/11- anthrax homicide. Most people don’t, although those thay do are increasing.

Most people haven’t gone through the 9/11 truthers work and tried to piece alternate possiblities together.  In any case mose people are too Patriotic to believe that high officals of the US government could possibly murder two or three thousands of their own American citizens.  You are part of that majority.  Fine.  Most people don’t like to consider unpleasant truths which put them in a stigmatized minority.

But I REALLY don’t you picking on people, like KDelphi. And stigmatizing people who actually have the courage to want to know the truth about political reality.  Calling us paranoids is the cheapest, most vulgar and most ignorant way to defend your own lass of knowledge, lack of intellectual courage and conventional know nothingism.

And you are quite right, I am ABSOLUTELY convinced of this.  I am an ABSOLUTIST in this regard.  Scholars, scientists, engeneers, intelligence officals, archetects, and pilots and political analysts around the world have published numerous books on the 9/11 attack, conceiving it higly implausable that it could have occurred without inside help. 

Including Mossad agents celebrating the attacks and taking pictures of it in a nearby park.  Since they were arrested by US authorities, that they exist is not the figment of imagination of paranoids.

Except for myself.  I happen to BE a poltical paranoid, so your accusation in my case is quite correct. 

Persons confined to our mental institutions are said to beleive that the government is out to get them, and that no one will believe them because everyone is crazy.

While I’m not familiar with the special rays and other weapons that specialized government agencies are said to use, in general I think that they are right.  The government IS out to get us and most people ARE in denial because the power delusions imposed by the Educated classes on the population would be subverted by this admission. 

We are currently being ruled by homicidal megalomaniacs who are being shielded by obfuscation,deception and distraction of their apologists.  Of which you are one.

Cyrena: I have read your points before about the 9/11 tragedies, and again today. I find them well reasoned though they in many ways differ with mine, but tolerant of possible other viewpoints. I have some issues with some of the events surrounding the crash of AA 77 given the events a half hour earlier and have wondered if this was a result of a military screw up, unwillingness to shoot down a civvy airliner, or ?. The bottom line is that this business of a deep black bag conspiracy of several years making involving Israeli agents and Bush with buildings being blown up, etc, is a good hobby for some folks but some of our friends here take it way too seriously and it is all or nothing, and like you say, you are either with them or AGAINST them. The problem with that is that the Bush/Cheney Reichstag has been using that very paradigm to justify their fascist rule for seven years.

Frank Cajon writes (in part) response to Folktruther:
•  “…The problem I have with absolutists is this: Someone like me has to buy your whole house of cards idea, or their own ideas, all of them, are ‘bullshit’, and they are a ‘charlatan’. There is no in between, no possibility that PART of your idea is right and part a collection of suppositions more fantastic than any reality…”

~~~~~~~

Bingo Frank!! You said it far better than I ever could, even though I’ve tried. (and I’ll probably continue to try).

It’s the ‘ABSOLUTIST’ part that says it all. I’ve attempted the same discussions with Folktruther myself, but he/she is one of the crowd of absolutists/either-or peeps. You’re either ‘for or against/ with us or against us.’ Sound familiar? I call these the ‘anti-reality’ folks, because they ignore any and all context or sub-context.  They can only think in black and white, and half the time, they even confuse those. It’s a one channel thought process, and the channel is frequently clogged.

Meantime, your post provides an excellent prompt (with working example) of the whole conspiracy on the perpetrators of 9/11. I would agree with you that probably about 75% of Americans believe the official conspiracy of 9/11; terrorists highjacked the airplanes and it was the crashing of them into the buildings that brought the WTC towers down. Most of my own colleagues and family members are similarly convinced. Now it might be interesting for me to add that my current colleagues are primarily academics, and they believe the official version, while at the same time admitting to the ‘unanswered questions’ position. It is of greater interest though, that my FORMER colleagues and co-workers…many still actively employed in the commercial airline industry, are reluctant to discuss it…AT ALL! They hated it when the press was hanging around HDQ, and unless they’re touting the official tale, they simply DO NOT DISCUSS IT!! Now, I spent 25 years in that industry, so I can only tell you that this is extremely odd.

Be that as it may, and while I personally have come to believe that it was in fact a false flag operation, the foundation of the official story makes perfectly good sense/logic/rationale to me. In short, if I knew what I now know about the paradigms and components of global terrorism, and did NOT know what I know of commercial and government aviation operations, I would believe the same.

In other words, there is a plethora of evidence for WHY we would have been targeted for terror, by global terrorists. And, 9/11 wasn’t the first time. So logic and rationale for such attacks is everywhere, and it’s NOT because ‘they hate our freedoms’ unless we’re talking about the ‘freedoms’ that the US exercises in its pursuit of global hegemony.

Consequently, if I did NOT have an in-depth, working knowledge of US aviation operations, I would have had little reason to question the official tale that took nearly 4 years to come up with. (and I did wait for that 9/11 Commission Report, hoping it would resolve many of my own questions…it did not).

“By MAR, September 12 at 5:29 pm #

Sorry Kathy Sullivan, I didn’t know this subject was dedicated to inmates with disorders of the fallibility gland. The so-called research is anything but that but the piecing together of random events and drawing the conclusions you want. The original proposition of a conspiracy was a hoax. Now tell me your themories about JFK, and his brother Robert. and any number of other fantasies.”

So many idiots, so little time.

Just because you type it does not make it true.

FYI: The official story about 19 hijackers IS A CONSPIRACY THEORY.

If you can’t even sort out the terminology you yourself throw about, why should anyone take your utterances seriously?

There was obviously intelligence agency meddling in the 9/11 case.  This isn’t even denied in official US inquiries, as in the FBI inspector general report, and the CIA inspector general report.  The FBI should have been notified that two alleged “UBL Associates”, that’s “Usama bin Laden” in case you aren’t familiar with these things, had “multi-entry US visas” in Jan. 2000.

The FBI liason at the CIA run “Counter-Terrorism Center” (CTC) wrote a memo to alert the FBI about al Mihdhar and al Hazmi.

Only, the memo never went anywhere. 

The CTC supervisor stopped it from ever being sent.  (This is a common story, repeated numerous times in the lead up to 9/11.)

These are facts, something most outraged “debunker” idiots seem to hate more than truthers.

So, it all comes down to JFK and RFK then to sort out the true 9/11?

And you think you understand those issues any better, with no evidence in support of your blather anywhere to be seen?

I don’t expect to educate the grossly misinformed zealots of official lies. 

Other casual readers may be interested that in the JFK case, 40+ eyewitnesses considered the wound on the back of the president’s skull to be an “exit wound,” including doctors in Dallas, medical examiners, nurses and secret service agents.

In RFK’s case, Sirhan Sirhan was standing in front of the candidate.  Kennedy was shot in the back of his head.

(PS - multiple parties is the definition of conspiracy.  If you weren’t intellectually stunted you might have realized some of this before today.)

The inconvenient facts of 9/11

44 witnesses saw an exit wound on the back of JFK’s head

2 of 2

But my point is that this is (IMO) another one of those ‘either/or’ topics, when the answer is BOTH. IOW, PARTS of all conspiracies are probably true, but there is no physical evidence to PROVE any of it. So, we wind up having to guess at the truth, based not on what is available as evidence, but based on what is MISSING, that should in fact be there, and what IS there, and is clearly ‘out of place’. (or wouldn’t logically be there at all). And, we may never know anything other than what we know now.

But there is the DANGER in assuming either one or the other. For those of us convinced that 9/11 was perpetrated from the inside, and by highly placed government actors, there’s the danger of disregarding what is a very real threat of global terrorism, based on geo-political grievances, many perfectly legitimate ones. For those who believe that ‘the Islamists’ were entirely responsible for that tragedy, there are degrees of danger, the least being the inability to consider that our own government would have in fact indulged in this treasonus activitiy. Because…they did, and this Gangster Cabal has continued to indulge in that activity ever since. That is precisely why we’re facing the abyss right now. If the majority of Americans had ever been given an opportunity to figure things out for themselves, (via fully disclosed truths/facts) we could have put the breaks on this destruction before it had time to become so fully entrenched. I mean, in what other ‘reality’ would Dick Bush ever been re-selected for a second term? I would say NONE. That they were left at the wheel, (when there has always been the opportunity and the obligation to take the keys from them) illuminates the terror that continues to be our reality.

As for you being a ‘charlatan’…I’d say only the obvious…consider the source. The source says it all. Those who do the labeling generally do it with a great deal of self-familiarity.

Folktruther: My response was not directed at you, and I was simply answering another blogger’s question. As far as me being a charlatan based on mistakes made by therapists 40 years ago, I wasn’t one then. BTW, I like you (I believe) am a ‘dissident’ in regard to the current Reichstag of fascists running the country and have urged a general strike for four years in protest of the Iraq slaughter and participated in demonstrations several times despite being disabled. I voted for Cynthia McKinney in my state primary. I have a sticker on my car that says “Impeach Bush” and blog here and on Huffington (against the advice of APA) that The Chancellor himself meets six of the criteria for Paranoid personality DO himself and should be removed from office under the 25th amendment (problem: Cheney is evil but sane). I would much have prefered if Kucinich had been the Democratic nominee since I feel the current Democratic party is too close to Republican lite, especially Hillary Clinton. You are free in your mudslinging as far as my views without really knowing any of them. I have been: a member of SDS, the Socialist Workers Party, Peace and Freedom, and Green parties. I marched for UFW and was clubbed by police in support of Caesar Chavez before I graduated from high school, and was an antiwar activist for several years in school following the leadership of Herbert Marcuse in San Diego. As far as conspiracy theories, I was in high school when Kennedy was shot and rejected the Warren Commission findings, but feel that Oswald was one of two gunmen, and I don’t know who hired them. Kennedy and King were killed by lone assassins who were the product of our society-King had a bounty on his head and was shot by a racist career criminal.
The problem I have with absolutists is this: Someone like me has to buy your whole house of cards idea, or their own ideas, all of them, are ‘bullshit’, and they are a ‘charlatan’. There is no in between, no possibility that PART of your idea is right and part a collection of suppositions more fantastic than any reality. So, a socialist like me gets branded as someone who is like the Soviets of the ‘50s, because I believe, like 70% of Americans, that terrorists hijacked the jets and that the explosions and fires caused the buildings to fall-THEN, that Bush used this occasion to justify a planned invasion of Iraq as part of his ‘war on terror’, which was more of a money laundering scheme than anything else-along with a deal to corner a Saudi oil monopoly in the region. There has been ample proof turned up that he falsified the rationale for the war, even lied about it, and I think the fascist bastard is a war criminal responsible for the lives of 300,000 people-but WAIT, I am a charlatan who is full of bullshit, and the Bush/Cheney cabal is blameless in this. Oh, never mind.

Part 1 of 2
•  Purple Girl, September 12 at 11:58 am—-“Just attended a Press Conference by Dan Kildee- The Republicans, esp here in MI are trying to tell people they can NOT Vote if they Are in ForeClosure!!!!  ….They are apparently planning on having foreclosure lists at the Polling Sites and intimidating voters with claims they are not legitimate voters. “
Purple Girl,

I definitely feel you on the outrage, and how every time you think they couldn’t do anything worse…they DO! Been feeling that for years now.  That’s why as appalled as I am by this latest you’ve posted, I’m not even surprised. In fact, we’ve actually anticipated this, and there has been a great deal of conversation about it on other sites like Alternet.

First off, it’s totally FALSE that citizens cannot vote if they are in foreclosure. Anyone currently in foreclosure, but still in their homes, can and SHOULD vote with that as their legal address. It does not matter what their status may or may not be on November 4th. If they are registered at their current addresses, that is where they should vote. If for any reason they are forced out of their homes between now and election day, they should be sure to file a change/forwarding address with the Post Office, so that they can be assured of receiving their election materials. How is MI for absentee voting? If it is easy enough to accomplish, (as it is here in California and many other states) then that is what anyone currently in foreclosure should do. They should re-register, (or register) right away, and with their current address, but as an absentee or ‘vote by mail’ status. As long as they are voting by mail, there’s no way the intimidation tactic of hanging foreclosure lists at the precincts can work. (what a bold ass illegality THAT is – hanging lists of the foreclosures – worse than the days of McCarthyism)

For those who have already become literally homeless, they should do the same thing, except with a slight variation. If they haven’t already filed a change of address where they know they will receive mail, they should probably check-in with a homeless shelter, and re-register with that address. Some homeless shelters are fine with that, as long as they know and have the person on their rosters.

Now I’m suggesting this ONLY because I’ve been working this portion of registration efforts…the homeless..specifically the newly homeless, who generally always vote, but now find themselves in limbo without a physical street address. For those who can manage it, it’s best to rent a PO Box to use as a mailing address, and if they can avoid those franchise postal places, and just use a regular US Post Office location, it’s fairly inexpensive. ($26.00 for 6 months is what I paid).

Anyway, with the PO Box as a secure mailing address, the newly homeless can generally use any number of physical mailing addresses provided by many of the community outreach programs for the homeless, even if they don’t actually provide shelter. For instance, in my previous residence in Northern California, there were several churches that provided mail and phone message services for the homeless, along with job seeking services and bus tokens. So, that’s what I’ve been recommending for the newly homeless, or any of the homeless here in our community now, to make sure that they have their citizens’ right to vote.

Part 2 of 2

Then, this came through from the Obama campaign yesterday. Amazingly, even my 80 year old parents forwarded it to me immediately, (apparently they ‘forget’ that I get all of this stuff myself) which I believe speaks to how much Americans really ARE paying attention, even though we aren’t hearing from all of them. (my dad refuses to even try to learn anything other than how to send and receive email, but he DOES do that, and consistently). …

~~~~
“You’d be surprised how many people you know aren’t registered to vote.

Registration deadlines are coming up soon, and we need every single vote we can get to win this election.

Tell your friends, family, and neighbors to check out our new one-stop voter registration website.

Just forward this message.

VoteforChange.com makes it easier than ever to register. Instead of tracking down the right forms, all you need to do is answer a few basic questions and you’ll be ready to vote. You can also:
•  Confirm your existing registration
•  Apply to vote absentee
•  Find your polling place
If you don’t know your own registration status or you’d like to learn more, take a minute to visit the site right now.

This race is too close and too important to stay home on Election Day.

~~~~

So, check out this link if you haven’t already. Pass the word. With the benefit of this technology, we can get a lot of folks registered in just a short period of time. In fact, we had been going door-to-door to seek out non-declared party voters, and that takes some time. For the homeless this is perfect, because it allows us to go to them, which is easier than them trying to find a place to use a computer. We do have those type set-ups for the homeless here in our nearby communities, (computer access, etc) and many in California but that’s only helpful for those who can go through the logistics of accomplishing it. If not, it’s helpful to spend a few hours maybe in various locations like the Salvation Army, or even the Red Cross (if they’ll allow it) and any other public or private shelter area. I’ve discovered that most of these organizations are very helpful in this respect, and if you can come up with a few people with laptops, they can go right to the shelters or organizations, (Women’s centers, non-profits, etc) and get several people registered at the same time.

By Sepharad, September 12 at 11:57 am

•  “Better still, the Obama campaign could start right now by asking Mr. Kucinich to coordinate a citizen/media group to pressure the government into releasing those 28 pages Bush insisted redacting from the Congressional findings re intelligence committee activities and sources of foreign support for the hijackers while they were in this country.”

Good idea Sepharad,

Actually, a similar idea was communicated by one of our local professors here in a lecture a couple of months ago. She has suggested that WHOMEVER the next president is, should make it a point to publicize all of the ‘signing statements’ that Dick Bush has attached to so much legislation in the past several years, (using them as vetos) as well as all of the secret executive orders.

Now of course we know there’s no way in hell that a McCain Cabal would ever do that…which is the whole point of the repugs trying so desperately to keep the Oval Office. But, Obama has in fact already committed to doing at least part of that…publicizing ALL executive orders. There’s a youtube video of him explaining this somewhere, (I posted it yesterday, but I can’t remember now, which thread) and my own interpretation of this is that it is an excellent idea, and comes with the territory of any effective truth and reconciliation commission/tribunal.

I personally have some confidence in these truth and reconciliation commissions, as they have worked in other settings. So, I’m very impressed, (though not surprised) that Dennis Kucinich came up with this. In fact, I supported Kucinich until he left the race, though by then, Obama had become my own alternative candidate. It has been my sincerest hope that Obama would incorporate Mr. Kucinich, (if he wanted to be incorporated) into his new administration. I would have been quite pleased if he had been selected as a running mate, but I’m also selfish enough to want to keep him in the Congress. (Then again, I feel the same way about some of the House and Senate reps from my own state of California)

Be that as it may, this is still a possibility, and I hope it will happen.

Meantime, I’m completely on board with the concept of a truth and reconciliation commission such as Mr. Kucinich suggests here.

Re: Mar

Your comment: “I didn’t know this subject was dedicated to inmates with disorders of the fallibility gland. The so-called research is anything but that but the piecing together of random events and drawing the conclusions you want. The original proposition of a conspiracy was a hoax. Now tell me your themories about JFK, and his brother Robert. and any number of other fantasies.”

>>  Well… I for one am curious..?  Do you know NOW?  However as it is, most of us, being of the amicable “sort”, welcome your comments.

They are most helpful.  In addition, they provide added debate of these very serious issues.

As an aside, and I will admit that this is PURE curiosity….  Where is the fallibility gland located, exactly…?  You seem to be “in the know” regarding this topic.  My “educated guess” is that YOURS is found near or “up” in the area of your gluteus maximus.  So…, I guess my question is…, does this hold true for everyone?  Or is this something exclusive to the individual gluteus maximus…?

Allow me, Fank Cajon, to offer an alternative explanation for your analysis of the mental disturbance of those who think that the most pluasible explanation of the accumulated facts is that the Bushites were complicit in 9/1-anthrax. 

Namely, that you are full of shit. 

In the Soviet Untion those dissidents given an alternative theory of political reality were considered poolitically insane and were ‘hospitalized.’  In the US assholes like you try to stigmatize alternative political explanations as psychotic to marginalize them.

Forty years ago homosexuality was considered an illness by charlatons like you, until gays resisted being hounded by police at Stonewall.  After the gays fought back it turned out for the mental health profession to be an alternative sexual preference.

Pseudo-professionals like yourself change when the trend changes.  Americans are currently being ruled by homicidal megalomanics who may well provoke a nuclear war, and digusting Educated cretins like you will be right their sucking their ass to help them do it. 

People like you retreat into professional bullshit to cover up your fear of confronting authoity, and pick on the most vulnerable to justify it.  Please be assured that I find this kind of intimidatation, and you, utterly contemptable.

A truth & reconciliation commission? Good idea. But why limit its role to the post-9/11 events? Since, as has been amply commented, the “Osama sent his 19 fanatics to demolish the World Trade Center & the Pentagon” story is, at best, very doubtful, why wouldn’t this commission take its time to take a good second look at the half-day investigation that concluded with the official scenario of 9/11?
Could it be that Kucinich, like other radical liberal leaders, will accuse the Bush administration of lying on just about everything except 9/11?
One of the most bizarre aspects of 9/11 is the distinct possibility that it would be, indeed, a false flag attack designed to lead “us the gullible people” into the phony war on terror, and that the whole political class would be lined up behind it. What do liberal politicians have to lose if a thorough, independent and public investigation on 9/11 took place, at long last? Is it that they answer to the same mysterious Masters as Bush?
Love,

YOU view the facts: 1996 the Politicians (both parties folks) the dems/reps they won’t/agrees; has gone on long enough: there IS no difference between the Corp’s & wealthy who bought & paid for politicians long ago; our Gov is CORP RUN: all the LAWS are for THEIR benefit: and AGAINST the people of this nation. YOUR point is interesting, & noted: however THIS is the way WE are going! As Ronald Reagan said: Corps shouldn’t have to pay taxes: now they aren’t in 2009; the PEOPLE are being billed the taxes for the Corps; THATS the reason you are paying such high taxes; “you seen one tree, you’ve seen them all! No national forests, no preservation of wildlife, cut them all down for COMMERCIALIZATION! and this is even NOW being done as you “read” this Congress politicians “we are going to do a truth”: THIS is the TRUTH! THERE IS NO EXCUSE! and we the people are FED UP with it all: and THIS is the reason for 9/11; fearing a revolution; already having all lined up 75 retired military from Pentagon who had contacts with the contractors who they siphon $ OUT of the country:& launder it back in to them: teaching them WHAT to say: HOW to say it; and having them PRACTICE what they were to say and act; MONTHS before 9/11; there WERE no WMD; no LINKS with Al Quieda; with Saddam Hussain or Iraq; THAT is TRUTH. YOU decide America! Did THEY LIE to the Indians? did they LIE to the VETS? Did they LIE when “vote us in” we will get us out of Iraq! (democratic Congress); well, are we OUT? “truth is relative” means literally THIS: you are to lie under oath to PRESERVE WHAT WE ASK YOU TO DO! they have taken the position where they believe they are gods: what they say is truth; THIS is the TRUE MEANING of “truth is relative”;

KDelphi: I apologize if the blog was too clinical, I thought you were being specific. First ALL of the cited examples came from bloggers on this site last year around this time, when I found myself (like this year) in the midst of a maelstrom of conspiracy theorists and their links. Look, I fully realize that about 1/3 of Americans are somewhat skeptical about some of the facts surrounding the 9/11 attacks, and that the official investigation reports aren’t going to satisfy everyone-for example, the scant evidence of the plane hitting the Pentagon, etc. When I was 29 I was a first on the scene witness at a passenger plane crash, and there was virtually nothing bigger than a fist left from the explosion-155 people died and my late brother and I saw one foot in a shoe, no evidence of anything from the humanity in the plane anywhere else in several blocks. So, I try to have an open mind, but the things I posted are the ridiculous kinds of fantasy that just makes the actual horror harder to endure.
BAD is Bipolar Affective Disorder and is often called ‘Manic Depression’ in the lay community. Most people that are untreated and psychotic are either young individuals experiencing their first or perhaps second psychotic episode (and thus not medically controlled), individuals with dual diagnoses (during the last 20 years most often chronic amphetamine abuse leading to a drug induced psychosis), or a bipolar individual who discontinues medications due to a manic mood shift, and becomes completely convinced that they are, variously, Jesus, able to due superhuman things, someone else, or afraid that they are being watched and that there are evil spies everywhere hatching mysterious plans. All of these people can be helped with medications and live reasonably normal lives, with the exception of the dual diagnosis cases whose brains look like swiss cheese on MRI and who have cognitive drops (lower IQs) from this. I am not saying that everyone who is a Truth Movement member has a mental disorder, but I am saying that some of the jibberish on this blogsite from the more extreme of the people has been consistent with clinical paranoia.

I’ll tell you mine, Mar.  I think the Warren comminssion wasthe biggest fraudulent political theater ever perpetrated on a people, bigger by far than the Dryfus affair.  Not only was John Kennedy assasainated, but my theory is that Ted Kennedy had a small plane crash a month later that killed the pilot and almost killed him. 

My theory would then include Robert Kennedy being murdered by being shot in the back of the head, when Sirhan was in front of him, more bullets and bullet holes being found than was in his gun.  When the coronor filed his report they didn’t like his theory either, and fired him.

The murder of the Kennedys and King, whose family never accepted the offical story and didn’t think the designated patsy in prison was guility of it, set the stage for the false flag- 9/11-anthrax murders, since the murderers had obviously gotten away with murder previously.  I quite understand that you are part of the chorus of Educated cretins who consider anyone who is forced to the conclusion that the American power system is now gangster driven, and functions, among other ways, by torture and murder, as paranoid.

In my case you happen to be right.  I AM a political paranoid and let me tell you Mar, it’s not easy for us paranoids living with deluded idiots like you.

It is said that there exists in our mental institutions (I am not referring here to our Great universities) people who think the government is out to get them and no one will believe them because everyone is crazy. 

I think they’re right, Mar.  The power system IS out to get us and people like you are in such denial that emperical facts mean nothing to you.  As the intelligence agencies say, Mar, some paranoids have REAL enemies.  You are obviously one of them.

Sorry Kathy Sullivan, I didn’t know this subject was dedicated to inmates with disorders of the fallibility gland. The so-called research is anything but that but the piecing together of random events and drawing the conclusions you want. The original proposition of a conspiracy was a hoax. Now tell me your themories about JFK, and his brother Robert. and any number of other fantasies.

I’ve been dealing with these arrogant/ignorant types for years, and they never seem to consider anything but their preconceptions:

“By Frank Cajon, September 11 at 8:53 pm #

Well, a year ago I came on here and this place was full of wingnuts who were blogging that Herr Bush had Mossad agents blow up the WTC, and I can see that the conspiracy theorists and just plain paranoids (I know one when I see one, I am a professional) are still around. Get a grip.”

Except there’s something on our side that you ignore and lack: facts.  Numerous Mossad were ARRESTED AND DETAINED before, on the day of, and after 9/11.  They have names, occupations, military specialties even.  The one that stuck in my mind was: “DEMOLTION/ORDNANCE SPECIALIST.”  A detailed list of the Israelis is included in this article:

http://crimesofthestate.blogspot.com/2007/06/israeli-art-students-and-movers-story.html

Now, I didn’t claim that I know they planted the explosives in the towers.  I don’t know.  I know that their detainment and activities were made “classified”, covered up, and never mentioned again in bogus “investigations” of 9/11.

You, on the other hand claim to know all about this matter, arguing from ignorance.

As for Bush’s behavior before, on the day of, and after the attacks, we have a guilty demeanor (and obvious CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE at the very least, which is supposed to be a crime for lesser mortals).

Again, you argue from ignorance, giving your opinion as fact:

“The Chancellor may be a fascist, but he didn’t do 9/11 and you’ll have to find another place to spew your anti-Semitic/’Zionist’ vitriol.”

You argue irrationally.  Why is it that Bush’s role and the “Zionist vitriol” have to be one and the same, tied together in every ignorant utterance?

Are you even capable of assessing how the President refused to perform his duties as “Commander in Chief” during the actual attacks?

It does not seem as though you are capable of rational argument.

“...trying to tie 9/11 to Hussein, a simple Big Lie exercise.”

So you ADMIT that the man you are essentially clearing of the 9/11 crimes (who had command responsibility on the day) engages in the practice of the “Big Lie.”

This is truly astounding cognitive dissonance.  We are apparently “crazy” for calling for an investigation into a “fascist” who tells Big Lies. 

“...most of the audience here is too far gone to listen to most of them, off in la la land of metalurgical experise and Building 7 intrigues.”

Well, engineers and physicists have called out the obvious lies published by Bush’s Commerce Department (of which NIST is a part).  Does that offend you as well, that capable, knowledgeable professionals have not accepted Bush regime lies, because their story has large holes in it?

“Meanwhile, our country has been hijacked by a military dictator, and another awaits in the wings to take over what is left of what used to be the greatest country on earth. “

Just how it was “hijacked” is what we’ve been talking about.  Are you that grossly stupid you can’t even look into an issue before spouting off so?

It’s amazing that some of these people can say what they say with a straight face.  They have been misled, much like a lot of people have been misled down false paths regarding the 9/11 attacks.

One would think they would respond rationally and be open to seeking the truth, and to further legitimate investigattions not tainted by corrupt insiders, cover up and evidence extracted from torture (Khalid Sheikh Mohammed).

No such rationality is in sight.

So if they are “young and educated” (how young? bipolar starts about college age alot, doesnt it?)and as long as their “ideation” is the same as yours-phone taps—they’re ok. BTW—where do you put the word “BAD” on the diagnosis??

Whew! Couldnt you have put it in “Axes” instead of a rant?! Or does it make you feel superior if other people cant understand you? I’d diagnose you, but that is about like a Dr. Frist in the Senate trying to diagnose a girl he’s never met in Florida—it’d be stupid.

BTW—the fist I heard most of that stuff was from you—I dont see it here on the site. Are you sure you arent projecting?

KDelphi: SInce you asked: DSM IV. I am retired, but let’s hypothesize: If a patient came into my office and on mental status examination rambled on about some vague conspiracy involving Zionists in secret cahoots to take over the world banking system, and using Bush, blow up the WTC while commandeering jets to do so under his auspices; further, that explosives were secretly planted in all of the buildings involved (including the Pentagon, despite security) with no one’s knowledge by Mossad agents and detonated in at the exact moment of building collapses, and so on, my diagnosis on Axis I would be 301.0 Personality Disorder, Paranoid type, uncomplicated in the absence of other signs of a formal thought disorder such as expressions of delusional content (in today’s environment, I would not count such things as suspicions about phone taps and internet hacking) like hearing television programs that they feel are about them, being followed by spies, men in black, hearing voices telling them about 9/11, or the like. In this kind of situation, (you appear to have some familiarity with psychological/psychiatric jargon) the person would more than likely (it would take a full examination and history to be sure) be either an Axis I 296.4 BAD, manic, decompensated or potentially a 295.3 SD,Paranoid type though this is far more unlikely unless the person is young, educated, and is having a first or second acute decompensation. In any case, the two most common type of paranoid content I encountered over the past 15 years have been the acute decompensators who generally feel that the government has bugged every electronic instrument in the world, and that every word that is said is being recorded to be used to send them to prison or torture (Bush did such a masterful job of making this so close to our reality that it made my job of convincing people otherwise so difficult). I am and always have been an opponent of the Fourth Reich and this has set me apart from many of my friends and coworkers, but I find this mumbo jumbo about 9/11 to be tiresome bullshit, to be honest. BTW, I no doubt would make the Axis II to be 309.9 in either case.

Just attended a Press Conference by Dan Kildee- The Republicans, esp here in MI are trying to tell people they can NOT Vote if they Are in ForeClosure!!!!
They are apparently planning on having foreclosure lists at the Polling Sites and intimidating voters with claims they are not legitimate voters.
Kildee went through the FACTS about the time between Relocation and Renewal-update of your voter Registration- It’s 60 Days.
When I think I can Not get any more Outraged by the Repug Tactics- the next day bring Newe heights.
This is not just Political Antics this is Constitutional TREASON!
It is time We finally convict these SOB’s fro the high crimes they have been committing for the last 7 yrs, esp when it comes to Our Democratic Right to Vote, Without intimidation, coercsion or Misinformation.Begin by arresting the Top Dogs of the RNC and right down through Mac’s campaign Team.this is a High Crime, it Undermines the every fabric of our Rule of Law and form of Gov’t.Could Congress PLEASE begin arresting these Criminals - a pre-emptive Strike before they Steal another Election!

Along with the truth fairy, Santa Claus, any number of “real conspiracies.”  With gulibility such as is displayed on this thread, no wonder you get the governments you do.

Kathy Sullivan is right.  The major purpose of an real investigation of 9/11-anthrax is not to “get the guys who did this”, although this should be done, but to reveal to the Amerian people how their leaders have deceived, brutalized and murdered them.

The American power strcture is treating the American people as the enemy: impoverishing us, militarizing us, spying on us, imprisoning us, torturing us, and murdering us. Unless people understand and accept what has happened in the US in the 2000 Coup d’etat, in which both parties were complicit, and in the false flag 9/11-anthrax homicide that followed it, we cannot undo it.

We must acknowledge the truth in order to forward into the future.  Otherwise the US will continue to sink into barbarism, militarism and a police state, a danger to the whole world.

To Kathy Sullivan: Then one third of the American people are gullible fools led on by some teen-age pranksters who know nothing about. Get real!

Frank Cajon—-which DSM are you using, (In your “professional capacity”, of course) to diagnose people as “paranoid”—I dont find it in mine. Do you mean “paranoid personality disorder”? “Paranoid schizophrenia”?

I learned what the term “Zionist” meant from my Jewish brother-in-law.

I agree with Fadel and Purple Girl—9/11 WAS a crime, not an act of war. It cannot be traced to any identifiable state or legal entity. Therefore, to “get the people that did this”, is really a huge waste of life, time, resources.

I love Kucinich (if you guys met him—you would too—he’s a tad different—that is a compliment nowadays) He is trying to do more than Pelosi or Reid are! I love Lennon, too. “Imagine all the people, sharing al the world. You may say I’m a dreamer. But I’m not th only one. I hope someday you’ll join us. And the world will be as one”. I am pretty sure unregulated capitalism would not fit the bill here.

Peace.

Yes Dennis Kucinich, “Truth” is the key word to bring sanity to this world gone insane under the the war-mongers and insider evil doers. Only Truth will liberate us from the lies, deception and fear forced on us by the agents of evil, whether internal or external.

9/11 should have been investigated as a big crime, and it should have been approached with the assumption that it might have been an inside job, which is what happens when a mysterious homicide takes place and the family of the victims are the first to be investigated. Have we forgotten how many high profile crimes, when properly investigated, ended finding that the culprit was a member of the victim’s family or an insider friend?!

Alas, now it’s too late for that since the evidence and truth have been buried under seven long years of lies, deception, psychological barrier of fear and two terrible and very costly wars half way around the world.

Dennis Kucinich, I am with you in your wisdom and sanity, and now that you don’t have a chance to be at the helm, I hope that a winning Barack Obama can tap you for the position of a secretary of state. If I have a way to know that this might happen, I am willing to vote and promote voting for Obama and giving him the benefit of the doubt.

So who is the REAL ‘TRICKEY DICKEY’?
Who has been playing this ‘Mind Games’ long before Rove got Pimples?
Who has Played the Pusher of Oil, the denier of alternatives (Rehab) and is willing to push it until we are out and must go ‘Cold Turkey’.
Who has facilitated the building of Social ‘Walls’ and Destroyed any attempts at ‘Bridges’

But this all did not start with Cheney, it has been evolving during the last century- Corporationsim (aka Facism. Imperialism. Totalitariansim. An “Ism” which is rarely a Good ‘ism’). It may be we are actually up to our ‘#9 Dream’- it’s been a nightmare for about the last 90 YRs because of the Corps agenda, Power and expansiveness.

We will no longer just ‘sit and watch the Wheels go round’ over the Top of US!
We will not stand by while they make Palin ‘Dress up and Dance’.
We will not allow them to use and malign the ‘Working Class Heros’ By Patronizing them with Mooseburgers or BS Stories about killing Wolves from a plane equals Hunting!And ignoring the Fact these Heros are out of a Job or their Homes!
We Will ‘Give Peace a Chance’ Because WE can Still “Imagine”
REAL Americans LOVE You Dennis,John Lennon, no doubt, supports You, and May God Smile upon You!

By Frank Cajon, September 11 at 8:53 pm #

“I can see Well, a year ago I came on here and this place was full of wingnuts who were blogging that Herr Bush had Mossad agents blow up the WTC, and I can see that the conspiracy theorists and just plain paranoids (I know one when I see one, I am a professional)”

A professional wingnut or professional conspiracy theorist?

On this unfortunate day spent sadly memorializing the seventh anniversary of 9/11, the fact that Senator McCain called for and willingly supported the invasion of Iraq, a country whose leader had nothing to do with 9/11, at the expense of taking our military resources and our focused national attention away from tracking down and capturing the true culprit of 9/11 Osama bin Laden, he who remains free at large to further murderously scheme against us on this unfortunate day, in the final analysis is the only reason I need not to vote for Senator McCain as in…...

Never Under Any Circumstances!

Dennis is a national treasure. He reminds us of the possibility of an honest politician. I’m sure he is far from unique, but no one else sets such a sterling example.

Its a lot harder to envision a positive political/economic system, but conceivably this is possible as well. We’d better start trying to think about it. The present system cant last much longer and it would be helpful to have some ideas about how to replace it.

Well, a year ago I came on here and this place was full of wingnuts who were blogging that Herr Bush had Mossad agents blow up the WTC, and I can see that the conspiracy theorists and just plain paranoids (I know one when I see one, I am a professional) are still around. Get a grip. The Chancellor may be a fascist, but he didn’t do 9/11 and you’ll have to find another place to spew your anti-Semitic/‘Zionist’ vitriol. He did, however, disgrace the memory of every innocent who died in the atrocities by lying to all of us about his pet war afterwards, and trying to tie 9/11 to Hussein, a simple Big Lie exercise. Kucinich makes good points, too bad that most of the audience here is too far gone to listen to most of them, off in la la land of metalurgical experise and Building 7 intrigues. Meanwhile, our country has been hijacked by a military dictator, and another awaits in the wings to take over what is left of what used to be the greatest country on earth.

Good article, Rep. Kucinich.

Quote: “The Constitution has been roundly attacked by the very people who took an oath to defend it.

There is a powerful desire across America for change, not necessarily from control by one political party to another, but a change from living with lies to living with truth.”

>>  This statement illuminates the very real perspective of the majority of the population.  Early in this campaign we saw how Dennis Kucinich was marginalized by HIS OWN PARTY, against the wishes of the voters of this same Party. Remember…, the magically disappearing internet poll taken by ABC after the debate they had hosted.  The one where Kucinich WON, hands down.  I feel confident George Stephanopolous would remember.

We forget so soon.  Third parties should be given the opportunity to be heard and included in all debates.
 
Although it seemed “odd” that at this “third party” press conference many of the questions were directed to Ron Paul.  Ron Paul himself reminds the press in attendance that he is currently NOT a candidate. It seemed another example of the pontificating press discreetly marginalizing these third party candidates.  The lies of omission.

This is precisely what we witnessed early this campaign season regarding all but the “chosen”. 

Video of the third party press conference at the C-span site.  Interesting.  Definitely worth a look-see.

http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/includes/templates/library/flash_popup.php?pID=281024-1&clipStart;=&clipStop;=

In a close race, one of these candidates has the very REAL possibility of winning.  A very good possibility, and right now… it looks to be a close race.

Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul have remained voices for government accountability and adherance to the Constitution.

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Kucinich_Seek_truth_not_fake_political_0910.html

COTS—I am looking at the link. I have to read it later, but reading the first page, some of it seems to make sense. It is not the usual “how could beams melt” stuff. I will withold my opinion, until I have read more. (Before , I just dismissed it)

I dont agree with Kucincih on all of this (I dont agree with hardly anybody on everything!); the Truth and Reconciliation that he says “worked” in South Africa-well, it doesnt really seem to have done the trick.There is little peace. What we need to strive for is justice, not revenge.

But I respect him greatly for coming out , literally , years ago to call for impeachment. It may be too late—but someone still needs to try to at least censure Bush! Maybe Bugliosi will be successful. I have a feeling that people wil want to “move on”, like they always do.

To expect justice is not to dwell—it is to allow healing. It is to allow the world to see that , we dont just impeach for affairs, and lying about them; or spying on the other party. No one kills 100s of 1000s of people in the uS, by proxy, and them just walks away to “build a freedom center” and “refurbish the coffers”.

Feingold is calling for a hearing in a few weeks—(its on this site)to re-establish the freedoms that are our birthright. Considering the total lack of support that these guys are getting from Pelosi and Reid—I think that they are to be commended. It may not be enough—but its alot more than either of hte candidates are calling for.

As CRIMES OF THE STATE indicated, the Bush regime not only used the 9/11-anthrax homicide to begin the War on Terrorism, there is increasing evidence that it was complicit in enacting it.

No Truth and Reconcialtion is possible for a mass homicide of 3000 people.

One thing I’ve learned is that the best way to avenge about 4,000 innocent lives snuffed out by zealous, hating criminals is to send your military to a foreign country, any foreign country, and waste about a half-million more. 

Anyone who thinks the collective American mentality will ever get over 9/11 is, IMHO, misguided. 

Don’t Fucking Tread on Me!

Now, we can look forward to a President Palin, I’d say long about the end of 2009.

And you’re still going to wait until the end of the year and the end of Bush’s destruction of evidence?

The word is TREASON, Dennis.  TREASON should shut down the government, be broadcast on every channel, cause immediate firestorms and panic on Capitol Hill.  This is no less than treason, and that is provable.  Can I prove it to you now, Congressman?

“(a) Findings.—The Senate finds that—
(1) The President has prevented the release to the American public of 28 pages of the Joint Inquiry into Intelligence Community Activities Before and After the Terrorist Attacks of September 2001.
(2) The contents of the redacted pages discuss sources of foreign support for some of the September 11th hijackers while they were in the United States.”
-Congressional Record: October 28, 2003 (Senate)
Page S13349-S13372

Take out that little pocket Constitution you like showing and read the definition of treason.

“Section 3. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.”

The white house is in breach of this section, and has been for 7 years.  You know this.  Every congressman knows this. 

And yet none dare call it what it is.

Happy 9/11.

The “War on Terror” Fraud, and the Washington Post’s “New Approach”

The FACTS of 9/11