Anyone still puzzled by McCain’s VP choice?? These might help clear it up for you:

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignmatters/352178

http://correntewire.com
/palin_has_been_vetted_but_mccain_wasnt_in_charge

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/2/report_secretive_ right_wing_group_vetted

Desperate to hold on to power, the Republicans are more than willing to hand a large share of that power over to these Dominionists. They need them for the votes and the organizing (tax-exempt churches, mind you). Even Rove later admitted that they were useful but also troublesome. The Neocons assumed, wrongly, that they could use them to get elected and then later shove them aside. Coincidentally, this religionist movement (seeking a theocratic social and judicial system no different than the Shari‘a) had the very same notion. They are intending to use the Neocons and the so-called “conservatives” to get into power then begin to shove them aside and impose their inquisition-style government in the USA. In case any of you were confusing this Palin with a Hillary you do so at your own peril. Anyone excusing this VP choice on abstract grounds are also doing so with much hazard.

Rus

So,… if I understand your way thinking, only Republicans and Conservatives are allowed to speak plainly and openly about their fellow Americans in different political parties and views. Whatever they want to declare as ‘truth’ is immune from discussion or critique.

re: “I do equate this behavior with the worst sort of bigotry. I can’t imagine why the two of you don’t see it.”
Rus, your statement clearly indicates a substantial lack of knowledge and awareness. Calling someone a ‘neo-con’ or ‘repug’ is not the same as hanging a human being from a tree because of the color of their skin or oppressing someone in a perpetual state of slavery. The fact that you don’t seem to understand that essential fact speaks volumes about you.

Rus, you can repeat the same argument over and over and never really address the points of anyone else here, but, if you’ll pardon a moment of sarcasm, it’s VERY REPUBLICAN OF YOU and it reinforces the stereotype of Republicans and Conservatives as being dogmatic and closed minded.

There is a difference between making political points (everyone tries to do that) and denying history. Rus, you are in a way the ‘poster child’ of the very things you complain about in this forum, and, yes, you are representing the last 40 years of Republicans. When you post in a largely Dem forum you need to justify your views and not just complain about how the others castigate Republicans or Conservatives. It would be the same if anyone here went over to say, ‘Red State’’s blog and attempted to give the Dem view over there.

Most people here I imagine are of the view that Republicans/Conservatives have a lot to answer for regarding the last 8 years under Bush/Cheney.

If you Rus, believe everything has been great over the last 8 years, and Repubs and Conservs have done no wrong and committed no errors in policy or judgement, you should back it up instead of commenting how ‘everybody hates poor little you’.

While McCain is criticized for flip-flopping on several issues, Palin has done even better.

She has very actively sought federal funds for Wasilla as its mayor, while a member of the Alaska Independence Party, which advocates secession from the United States.

Why switch positions when you can be on both sides at once?

Aside from foreign policy, how does the governor of a state that runs on huge oil extraction taxes and federal subsidies understand the budgeting struggles of the other 49 states?  Seniors (65+) comprise 12% of the US population, but only 5.7% of Alaska.  How can she relate to the needs of older folk like me?

Phillip Butler, who was awarded two silver stars, two bronze stars, two legions of merits and two purple hearts, and who served with and was imprisoned with John McCain: “I think I can say from experience that the prisoner of war experience is not a pre-requisite to become President of the United States. I was shot down April 20th, 1965….John McCain arrived in October 1967…John has allowed the media to make him out to be ‘the’ POW, the hero, and in fact there were over 600 just like him who performed just as well.”

“Most of my experience was from living across the hall from him.  He was well known by most of his own classmates and everybody who knew him as a very volatile guy.  He would blow up and go off like a Roman candle at any possible time.  He was very sensitive and touchy.  The world is such a dangerous place and he has shown himself to be bellicose with regard to making other wars in other places in Iraq or making threats with Iran.”

“John McCain is not somebody I would like to see with his finger anywhere near the red button.”

“John McCain’s temperament makes it clear that he’s not cut out to be President of the United States.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KjsEs46C70

Linda,

You seem to have a direct connection to Palin, so can you ask her for me, why the separation of church and state is not something she supports or believes in?

Rus7355:

‘Inherit The Wind,

“Oh, spare us your phony outrage! Here’s some of what Dems get called:”

DemocRATs...’

I like “demon rats” myself.  I used to get called that on Usenet.  In fact, I have a collection of 300-odd epithets from Usenet days—the better ones.  Most of them aren’t worth collecting.  One fellow called me a Nazi, a Communist, a socialist and a liberal all in one paragraph, though.  Although the epithets were pretty tired, I thought putting them together compactly showed a bit of talent.

I myself never insult anyone, as you may have noticed.  I have discovered that those who need to be insulted will insult themselves far beyond my poor power to add or detract.  Sometimes I help them a little, of course.

ITW--it’s the same duplicity we saw when the media jumped all over Edwards for an affair but rarely mentions how McCain cheated on his first wife with Cindy after the first wife, a former beauty queen, was horribly disfigured in an auto accident.

Rus7355, September 2 at 9:00 pm #

AND IT’S WRONG, ISN’T IT? It’s the type of behavior that has no place in a thinking man’s discourse. Why are YOU doing it?
**************************************

That’s the language and weapons that YOUR side have been using for years. We didn’t coin “ObamaMama”, Fox Noise did.

As usual your side won’t play “nice” but whine when our side goes bare-knuckle to bare-knuckle with you.

Spoiled-brat mentality.  “We can do it but you can’t!”

It’s this same nonsense of saying “lay off Sarah Palin having a pregnant teen daughter” but gleefully LEAPING on any and every failing a Dem may have.

I cannot even IMAGINE the right-wing pit bulls laying off a Dem with an unmarried pregnant teen daughter.

Remember: Rush Limbaugh said the Clintons already had a family dog and then put up a picture of 13 year old Chelsea.

Don’t bitch to ME about Democratic street-fighting.  We are FINALLY fighting back!  It’s self-defense.

You want it to stop? Get Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity and Bill O’Reilly and Ann Coulter-geist and, mainly, Karl Rove to end it.  And then it will end.  Not before.  Nor should it.  Our very existence as a free nation DEMANDS that Barack Obama become our next President.

Now TR is the “new” symbol of the GOP??? What’s that whirring sound??? That’s TR spinning in his grave as these anti-environment, anti-conservationist, anti-anti-trust, religion-in-government reactionaries pretend to walk in his shoes.

Teddy Roosevelt got “In God We Trust” REMOVED from ALL the money when he was President.  TR believed in both the separation of Church and State AND that putting God’s name on money was a SIN!

Mark Russell used to say to politicians:
“Keep it up! I need the material.”

Well, Mark, how’s this? Sarah Palin line-item vetoed moneys to support and house unwed pregnant teens!  And just this year!

And now her daughter is an unwed pregnant teen.

Rus7355, September 2 at 11:58 am #

Are you truly so blinded by your own hatred of others who happen to be different, the so-called “Regugs” and “Neo-Cons”, that you do now see the treatment you daily dole out? Are you truly that blind?
*********************************

Oh, spare us your phony outrage! Here’s some of what Dems get called:

DemocRATs
algore
Hildebeast
Shrillary
Billary
Sore/Loserman
ObamalamaDingDong
ObamaMama
Klinton
B.Hussein Obama
Traitors
racists
Lurch

And that’s just a tiny tiny portion of the names you Re-thug-licans throw at Democrats.

If you can’t stand the heat, go back to RedState.com and FoxNoise.com.

Linda--are you a political comedian?  That was truly rich.  Sarah Palin is qualified to be a heartbeat away from the presidency because she knows how to cook?

My wife’s a great cook.  Maybe we can make her the Ambassador to the U.N.

Big E--excellent post, but I am afraid it will fall on death ears.  My interaction with this individual has taught me that he is immune to rationale discourse and impervious to both fact and reason.  I made a simple request that he refrain from the use of racial slurs, and the man tries to equate those slurs to referring to the Bush/Cheney regime as Repugs. 

There are a number of other characterizations of that regime far less charitable than Repugs--like fascist, Nazi-like etc.--references that can be validated by comparative observation and historical analysis.  Racial slurs, on the other hand, have no basis in a fact-based reality.  They are vicious.  The come from the gut, not the mind.

All I did was politely ask the man to refrain from the use of racial smears in his future posts, and what did we get--rationalization for their use.

From past efforts to interact with Rus, I am certain none of this will register.  He is as stubborn as he is stupid.  Since this is the response to a polite request and since I know further interaction to be useless, this will be my last post on the subject.

to Rus:

re:
“Are you truly so blinded by your own hatred of others who happen to be different, the so-called “Regugs” and “Neo-Cons”, that you do now see the treatment you daily dole out? Are you truly that blind? “

“To many the “N’ word is repugnant. So too with the other degrading terms I wrote.  Some of you completely loose yourself in your hatred and fear of others who are different. It’s all detestable bigotry. “
----------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------

•-> Rus, with all due consideration to your views, are you really equating the
the racial and ethnic epithets and slurs you posted as somehow being on the same level as calling someone a ‘neo-con’ or ‘Repug’? If you do believe that the ‘N-word’ somehow holds equal status with ‘neo-con’, you my friend, have failed to grasp a considerable amount of African American history in America. Common usage and understanding of the word ‘bigotry’ would suggest otherwise.

Political blogs on both the ‘left’ and ‘right generate a sizable amount of ‘heat’ and ridicule during discussions and their is (myself included) a very generous portion of dark and sometimes, VERY DARK satire. The ‘trick’ is sometimes to deal with the satire and post your rebuttal without the racial and ethnic slurs.

I have seen hatred in many forms on ‘right-wing’ blogs. Most of the posts here and other places, despite the passionate embrace of the Dem ideals, and the many ways distaste for the Republican/Conservative views and people are expressed, never even come close to the rampant ‘us or them’ mentality of the ‘right’. That’s not to say that there is not as wide a spectrum on the Republican/Conservative side as there is on the ‘left’. One only needs to listen to some of the ‘leading’ proponents of the ‘right’ like Rush, Coulter, Savage, Malkin or the rampant distortions and lies of the FOX network to get a feel for the seething hatred I previously mentioned. Of course you can say that the folks I mentioned are just trying to ‘drum up biz’ for the respective employers, but, I don’t think even you Rus, can deny their tortured invective.

Let me try to put it on a personal level. It’s difficult for me to take someone who is a evangelical, or any other ‘blind faith’ religion seriously in a conversation, when I am told that I will end up as some kind of human BBQ (not quite sure of whether it’s K.C./Memphis/Carolina/Texas) roasting in hell for all eternity unless I convert to their way of thinking and belief system. Not exactly the best way to begin a conversation, IMHO.

Rus:  Repug is a well-earned and accurate title that applies to the Bush/Cheney regime and their blinded followers--though Republi-crooks works just as well..  Your splatting the pages of TD with your N bombs, on the other hand, is unacceptable.

Big E,

If your post is real, we may as well throw in the towel and bend over and spread them.  It does sound like religion and politics in a very real sense, so if Palin becomes wolf killer vice president, we will be like Iran, only we will be a blind with a better difference, Christian pure.

Has anybody asked her if she speaks in tongues?

Rus:

I am very wary about any mixing of evangelical doctrine and the governing of the United States and equally concerned about Palin’s desire to see ‘creationist biblical teachings’ taught on an equal footing with science in public schools.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/palins-church -may-have-sh_n_123205.html

“If Obama’s former pastor Jeremiah Wright is any indication, Palin may face some political fallout over the more controversial teachings of Wasilla Assembly of God.”

“Speaking before the Pentecostal church, Palin painted the current war in Iraq as a messianic affair in which the United States could act out the will of the Lord.”

“Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God,” she exhorted the congregants. “That’s what we have to make sure that we’re praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God’s plan.”

But Pastor Kalnins (Assembly of God) has also preached that critics of President Bush will be banished to hell; questioned whether people who voted for Sen. John Kerry in 2004 would be accepted to heaven; charged that the 9/11 terrorist attacks and war in Iraq were part of a war “contending for your faith;” and said that Jesus “operated from that position of war mode.”

Rus, the racist words contained in your last post are far too offensive to be uttered in polite company.  You are free to disagree with others on TD, in fact, outside of a select few, there are not many who do agree with you, but I would respectfully request that you be a little less “disagreeable” in your choice of language.

re: Rus7355, September 2 at 6:46 am

The only one here that demonstrates a high degree of being incompetent and intolerant is yourself, amply proven by your usage of ethnic and racial slurs.

There IS a difference between people having heated political discussions or arguments, or even about perceived character flaws… religious affiliation and how that might affect a persons governing decisions......

However, your post reflects the perceptions that abound about how Republicans think.

The Palin family is a testament to the failure of the Christian fundamentalist policies of “abstinence only” sex education.  Bill Maher put it a bit more crudely.  “Republicans,” he said, “don’t know when to pull out.”

RE: Linda,“She has traveled to Ireland, Germany, Kuwait and Iaq where she visited the troops and assessed the situation there.”

Stopovers don’t count in international travel! And, even less in diplomactic experience.

When she was “assessing the situation” in Iraq, against WHAT knowlege or experience base?

She has to have more experience that a “mean game of basketball” to interact with Mr. Putin!

Linda,

“She has traveled to Ireland, Germany, Kuwait and Iaq where she visited the troops and assessed the situation there.”

If assessing the situation when traveling qualifies for being president, I just made a trip to Crater Lake Oregon, so now I should run for governor of Oregon. Hell, why not take it up a notch.  Since I spent 13 months in Vietnam and assessed the situation, Maybe I should run for President and as vice president of the local PTA I may be over qualified.

Big E, September 1 at 9:25 pm #

Despite your implication about the Dems somehow being ‘anti-women’, maybe you can help me out, and explain how Palin is more qualified to be V.P. than someone like Republican Olympia Snowe, female, from Maine....
**********************************************
I understand that Snowe is too “liberal”, but even that incompetent from North Carolina, Elizabeth Dole is FAR more qualified than Palin, having served in Presidential cabinet posts--and even has the “Conservative” chops that Palin has and Snow (or Collins or Whitman) lack.  She also represents a large Southern State that is by no means certain for McCain.

I grew up in Westchester County in NY, and lived for years in Fairfax County in Virginia.  Both are about 30% larger (by population ) than the great state of Alaska.

Her nickname when she played basketball was Barracuda. Doesn’t that just speak volumes? And she hunts caribou and moose, so she probably does not know what it cost the poor in the lower 48 to buy the meat. Hunting seasons vary for each state and even though the Indians in Michigan are supposed to have fishing rights, it is still difficult to do so without threats from non-Indians and over zealous government goon squads. Hunting isn’t much better here for us either. I don’t see her helping those attain a better life in this century.

And for the family values mantra the repukelican party loves to boast about. Sarah should have spent more time being an “at home mom”, and maybe she would not be a soon-to-be grandmother for her teenage daughter, maybe soon to be wed? Sarah, do not try to force your radical ridiculous religious lifestyles unto others, it obviously didn’t work out to well for you now did it? Now go home and play at being a mommy.

to Linda:

Despite your implication about the Dems somehow being ‘anti-women’, maybe you can help me out, and explain how Palin is more qualified to be V.P. than someone like Republican Olympia Snowe, female, from Maine....

I guess you might agree with some, including Mrs. McCain, that Palin’s extensive foreign relations experience includes the fact that Alaska is ‘next to Russia’.

I’m sorry Linda.  Perhaps I am missing something.  So Sarah was a member of a city council of an Alaskan hamlet, has traveled abroad.  And just how does that make her qualified to be VP? Commander in Chief of the Alaskan National Guard?  That’s essentially an honorary title conferred upon any governor.  The only “command authority” she would have would be to call up the guard for an emergency, you know, like when a polar bear breaks into the garbage cans.

There is not one single fact you have posted that reflects that this woman is even remotely qualified to be a heartbeat away from the Presidency.  Hunting?  That’s what Cheney was doing when he shot a guy in the face.

Now let’s look at just a few of her negatives.  She is a right wing Christian ideologue who is anti-science, anti-environment and even goes so far as to deny the science of global warming.  Hers, and more importantly, McCain’s opposition to the development of alternative energy sources portends to an unmitigated ecological disaster.  Their joint drill here, drill now philosophy is a total sham.  The U.S. consumes 25% of the world’s oil.  Its entire reserve, including ANWR & off-shore totals only 3%.  Their policies require continued dependence on foreign oil.  As revealed by T. Boone Pickens, himself a former oil man, that translates into a transfer of $500 billion/year to nations like Saudi Arabia--money we don’t have so we borrow it from China.

Even if their policies did not lead us to a total economic collapse--quite likely they will--continuing conflicts over the availability of oil in the Middle East and Caspian Sea greatly increase the likelihood of further resource wars, like the one in Iraq.  Indeed, McCain’s first answer to every foreign policy question is war rather than negotiation. 

And, of course, none of this touches upon the Republican “greed is good” philosophy in which America’s wealthy elites have breached the social contract by outsourcing our manufacturing base in search of the $2/day laborer in China while the remnants of American labor has been reduced to poverty wages as homes are foreclosed and banks close.

And you say I should vote for Sarah because she plays a mean game of basketball?  You’re a comedian, right?

Yeah, but how many republican’ts will see or admit that the joke’s on them?  (Us all if they succeed in rigging the election again).

Maverick? Hypocrite, blow hard and egotist! AND McWORSE chose her as his replacement in case he croaks while in office! Oh, please, I can’t stand it - ROFLMAO!

Ed you are quite right, but I wouldn’t put too much into the order of placement.  The two separate rights are inextricably linked.

At least now we know that the rumors of Sarah Palin “fronting” for her daughter about baby Trig are false.
See, baby Trig is 4 months old--and “moral leader” Palin’s 17 year old daughter is 5 months pregnant!

That’s what “abstinence only” brings--unwed teen-age pregnancy.  She’s gonna marry the kid who knocked her up.  I’m sure it will be a formal wedding.  Up there, in Alaska, I think that means it will be a “White Shotgun” wedding!

Oh, and Rus1234? I don’t have bony fingers.  They are thick and rather muscular from my days building houses.  I can still take hot pots from the warming drawer without a pot-holder and not get burned.

That, Winded One, is hilarious. LMAO

The unrepentant bigotry in these post just keeps on a growin. I have such pity for you.
****************************************

Your absurdity gets more and more surreal.

You presume I have bony fingers? Why? Is your image of Democrats all these skinny, skeletal types who live on lettuce and purified water?  What kind of a maniac are you? Did God tell you I have bony fingers???

Then there’s “perceived injustices of the past 40 years”...But do you REFUTE a single one of them? THAT is what debating is, point/counter-point.  With you, when someone makes a point you respond with an insult.  Another point, another insult, but NEVER a counter-point.

Why on earth would I need or want the pity of a bigot who can only hurl insults to those who disagree with him because he can’t find any facts to back him up, or refute evidence that makes hamburger of his arguments and positions?

Save your pity for the poor folks in the path of Gustav--they need it. I don’t.

Leefeller, Plato’s Cave is one of my favorite cautionary tales and I haven’t considered it in ages.  I appreciate the reminder in these days of cave-dwelling.  Merci.

Double U,

Your comment “Until, that is, we want to take a stroll in the real world’ reminds me of PLATO’S CAVE, which one can perceive as an analogy in several lights, religion, politics or other social structures. I prefer and like using it as a reference for religion.

Critical analysis is a survival strategy.  It is not needed if we’re indoctrinated from youth in the tales of our grandfathers, taken in with our milk and our orders not to question why.  Until, that is, we want to take a stroll in the real world, and Unless we can enforce our own peculiar grandfather’s tales on others.  Another problem with religion is that it’s always MY grandfather who has the inside-poop.  What a tangled web that is.
Now, to address my fellow progressive thinkers, since the republican’ts seem able to overlook Palin’s gender, I suggest we do too.  Laura Bushy tush warned democrats today to be careful of sexism against Palin.  I’m no sexist, but I am frightfully prejudiced against playing dumb for the sake of a greasy buck and for the privilege of snuggling up with a war criminal.

We should be teaching the reality of reading tea leaves and as one of great past presidents made decisions from astrological signs.  Of course in our schools why not instill one of my personal religious choices, which would be full body massage.

That is a rather interesting imperialistic view and seems to contradict many of your other positions. Selective application I suppose.

This country allows one to believe what they want to believe. Just as you have that right so do they. All theories have their own issues such as the missing link in evolution. If you believe in this, you have faith that it is correct in the absence of proof. The creationists have faith in their own belief and no one has a right force teach them anything to the contrary.  But yet, you want to support a government that seeks to suppress its people and force one view point on them…

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”

The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment prohibits the establishment of a national religion by the Congress or the preference of one religion over another, or religion over non-religion. Originally, the First Amendment only applied to the federal government. Subsequently, under the incorporation doctrine, certain selected provisions were applied to states. It was not, however, until the middle and later years of the twentieth century that the Supreme Court began to interpret the Establishment and Free Exercise Clauses in such a manner as to restrict the promotion of religion by state governments. For example, in the Board of Education of Kiryas Joel Village School District v. Grumet, 512 U.S. 687 (1994), Justice David Souter, writing for the majority, concluded that “government should not prefer one religion to another, or religion to irreligion”.

The Free Exercise Clause is the accompanying clause with the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. The Warren Court adopted the “compelling interest” doctrine regarding the clause, holding that a state must show a compelling interest in restricting religion-related activities. Later court decisions retreated from this standard, permitting governmental actions that were neutral to interfere with religion. The Congress attempted to restore this standard by passing the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. In City of Boerne v. Flores, 521 U.S. 507 (1997), the Supreme Court held that such an attempt was unconstitutional regarding state and local government actions (though permissible regarding federal actions).

Does the government education system no intrude on the “free exercise thereof” when the teach one belief that contradicts another?

No, cann4ing, all science is NOT subject to testing and verification.  That’s a scientific myth.  The concetual language of the natural sciences were largely inherited from previous geneations and indoctrinated in the young, as Thomas Kuhn stated in THE STRUCTURE OF SCIENTIFIC REVOLUTIONS much like theology.  What scientists disconver is the implications of the conceptual structures invented by their historical predecessors.

That said, creationism shouldn’t be indoctrinated in our schools because it is childishly irrational, imposed as religion is, by the powerful to help legitimate oppressive power.  Power structures have hijacked religious ideologies to impose the idea of obeying Divine and earthly power.

The American power system is so oppressive, corrupt and undemocratic that it has created a large fraction of religious loonies in the population manipulated by the rich to maintain a power system that increases their capital.

Pus7355,
Do you know what a theory is?  It is a set of ideas that either hold up to rigorous and repeated scrutiny or it is dismissed.  Now, compare a theory with a fantasy or an ideology.  These latter two are NOT held up to scrutiny for two fundamental reasons: One, they would have been laughed off the face of the earth before they could be drilled into ignorant skulls, then shoved down through generation after generation of pushead jrs, pushead IIs, pushead IIIs, etc., and, Two, because fantasy and myth-makers make sure we are diverted from the utter jaw-dropping ridiculousness of it all by filling gullible pusheads with myriad fears of truth and wonder.

re: By cann4ing, September 1 at 7:27 am:

Cann4ing writes”

“The First Amendment has two clauses pertaining to religion.  The first guarantees your freedom to believe or not believe.  This is what is known as freedom “of” religion.  The second, the Establishment Clause, mandates separation of church and state--freedom “from” religion.”

Small correction: the establishment clause comes first; the free exercise clause follows in second place. A subtlety — but a telling one, I think.

The level of your ignorance, Rus, is appalling.  The First Amendment has two clauses pertaining to religion.  The first guarantees your freedom to believe or not believe.  This is what is known as freedom “of” religion.  The second, the Establishment Clause, mandates separation of church and state--freedom “from” religion.

The reason evolution is taught in our public schools is because evolution is science.  All science is subject to the scientific method of testing, verification etc.  When a scientific theory (evolution, global warming) proves to be inaccurate through application of the scientific method, it is modified or rejected on the basis of science. 

Creationism whether or not packaged under the pseudo-scientific phrase, “intelligent design,” is not something that can be subjected to the scientific method.  It is founded on one’s religious belief.  If you or Sarah Palin want to believe that God created the world and all its creatures, including both dinosaurs and man, in the span of seven days, you have every right to maintain that belief.  You also have a right to believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy.  But the Establishment Clause prevents you from imposing your religious beliefs on public school children--on my children.

That is why evolution (science) is taught in our public schools and creationism (religion) is not taught in our public schools.

As President Washington observed, “The United States was not founded upon the Christian religion.” When the framers adopted the Constitution, they created a secular state in which all are free to believe or not believe in a religion.  If we permitted the teaching of creationism in our public schools, we would no longer be a secular state.  We would become a theocracy, like the government of Iran--which is precisely what the framers of the Constitution sought to avoid.

Yes, Dr Know, I’s acquanted with Joseph Campbell.  He was a Nazi sympathizer who specialized in myths.  He used to flunk students who participated in the 60’s movements.  He emphasized male myths until a woman archiologist, of Lithuania origin as I remember, change the focus of myth study.

Campbell was very influential among the right wing, non-political and politically naive.

Re: cann4ing, August 31 at 5:29 pm #

None of my candidates are running so I’m sitting this one out and taking sport with your (td) hypocrisy.

For instance, the establishment clause… This clause protects citizens from a state mandated religion. It does not take away the citizens right to belief, it protects. 

The government school system teaches a science curriculum that contradicts the Christian belief system of creationism. That is not protecting the citizen; it is in fact forcing a belief.

Many of the creationist I hear are only asking the government to not force their beliefs on them. There are other theories that could be taught such as, the hydroplate theory. It is supported scientifically and aligns with the biblical events. Why cant they offer this as an option? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X16SE-N-8ys

So why do you want to take a clause that was meant to protect and use it against a citizen? They pay for the government schools as well and in many cases are forced to attend their institutions.

Double U, you are correct.  It’s Maher.  Mea culpa!

Folktruther, are you familiar with the work of Joseph Campbell?

Who’s Bill Mayer?  Do you mean Maher?

Bill Mayer’s piece on the Palin selection is hilarious.  Here are a few segments:

“Are you kidding me?  The mayor of Wasilla, Alaska is qualified to be Vice President?  When she got a phone call at three in the morning it was because a moose got into the garbage can.”

Mayer quoted Palin as asking, “What does a Vice President do?”

“Let me field that one for you Sarah.  They start wars, they subvert the constitution and they shoot people in the face.”

Beltor, August 31 at 12:10 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

The new testament is an extension of the “old”. There are far too many specifics supported by historical and archeological evidence to label it a “myth”. People of your caliber do so because they are utterly ignorant of the bible and its content.
*******************************

Oh No!  ANOTHER “sky pilot”!!!

The “New” Testament is a political compilation by one group of Christians to crush all the others, by picking and chosing which “Gospels” to include--and which to exclude.  This was used to destroy the Arian Church.  Later, it was used to justify, around 1200, the sack of Orthodox Christian Constantinople by Roman Catholic Christians.

All the “so-called” confirmations are simply that the guys writing the NT made DAMN sure they matched the prophesies of the Bible, the “Old Testament”.

I’m not a communist, Jackpine, although I once was.  However marxism is essential from a class perspective to developing the ideology needed for the next historical period.

Unfortunately, Marx was a highly Educated man.  Darwin had just published Origin of Species and Marx assumed that Western science would continue to enligthen the world.  He was writing in that tradition.  It turns out that the myths of science are not useful for developing the math concpetual structures needed to generalized and simplify the implications of marxist thought.

But enough chitchat.  Tell me, Jackpine, why do you think that religions necessarily must include myths.  The modern religions of the 20th century tend to be godless, like Scientology and Paganism.  Why could they not also despense with myths?

Sorry rowman, but, as they say in the South, that dog won’t hunt.

Sarah Palin has only a BS in journalism--albeit with a minor in political science which was insufficient to teach her what it is that a VP does.  And you want to compare this to a guy who became the first African American student editor of the Harvard Law Review who went on to graduate Magna Cum Laude.  He has practiced law, served as a community organizer and taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School.

From what little we know of Ms. Palin, it is doubtful that she has ever read the constitution. She certainly doesn’t understand it.  Like you, rowman, she is a bible thumping right wing hack who doesn’t even understand that the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment bars subjecting public school students with her creationist religious doctrine.  She is so clueless on the environment, and so in bed with the oil cartel, that she is amongst the most ignorant of our citizens--actually continuing to deny the human role in global warming in the face of an all but universal scientific consensus--with the only ones still disputing this being hacks on the Exxon-Mobil payroll.

Of course, if we want to consider intelligence, then your hero, McCain, becomes an interesting study.  The guy’s many faux pas and incoherent mumbings in unscripted situations suggest he is already displaying signs of early senile dementia.  Yet, even in his prime, this privileged son and grandson performed miserably at Annapolis, finishing 894th in a class of 899.

Obama has essentially the same experience as President Lincoln did when he ran for President.  Both men served 8 years in the Illinois state legislature.  Lincoln served two years in the House of Representatives.  Obama was sworn in as a U.S. Senator in January 2005--3 years and 9 months.  Both Lincoln and Obama criticized a former President for unnecessarily taking the nation to war.  And, judging from the brilliance of Obama’s erudition which led even the ultra-conservative Pat Buchanan to say it was the best acceptance speech he had heard in his life time, it is likely that history will look back on Obama as being one of the intellectual giants to ever occupy the POTUS.

Here is a comparison between Palin and Obama. Sad day when the vp is being compared to the wanna be president… And the vp has more experience!

No wonder Obama told everyone to back off the “experience” attacks. lmao

http://www.redstate.com/diaries/redstate/2008/aug/30/t ale-of-the-tape-sarah-palin-vs-barack-obam/

Beltor,

I never said the whole thing (either new or old) is a myth.  I said that it is full of “myths”.  And if you read what i wrote previously (in my first response to Folktruther) then you’ll know that i hold myths in very high regard.

None-the-less, most of the “myths” of the Old Testament are not original.  Noah came long after Gilgamesh, and nearly every culture tells of a great flood.  There may well have been such a flood, but that doesn’t mean that a guy named Noah built an Ark, gathered all the animals and waited out 40 days and 40 nights of rain. (Sometime after 4000 B.C.) And never mind all that was left out of the Bible by the bishops at Nicea...the most interesting stuff, actually.

Myths aren’t meant to be taken literally; their meaning and importance is far deeper than that.  Just because i’m not a Christian does not mean that i’m incapable of appreciating the power (and heritage) of its stories...true or not.

Reality must sting. I was surprised to learn that he voted against the bill too. After I read it, I was shocked that he would take the position that he misread the bill. The language is very clear and no one else in congress “misread” it. Every single one of them voted YES.

How do you mess that up? Wonder what kind of damage he will do as President when he can’t even read a simple bill. These are babies and he is ready to let them die over a political squabble.

Read it yourself
Born Alive Infant Protection Act U.S. Code Public Law 107-207

rowman,

Only knows his truth. Seems we have been here before.