Dear Will -

Con graduations! Your media campaign to sabotage the progress of national heath care, decent wages, and peace in the world, is going swimmingly on cue. 

I have it on good authority that my cousin Roger Ailes is going to give you all the air play you can stand on Fox.  Perhaps a well paid position as a talking head on Sean’s show is in the offing, if you play your cards right.  And that numbered account in Geneva is being prepared by ever so grateful GOP operatives, althou’ you are rather behind the times in these matters:  the Cayman Islands is the place to slash troughs of tax-free loot these days! 

Not bad for a failed playwright, if I may say. All these goodies await you, if you deliver.  And that, frankly, is looking to be a problem. Your boast of retiring HRC’s debt is looking rather dodgy now: your trumpeting of the numbers of our supporters isn’t really going over; and Sarah doesn’t seem to be winning over our targeted demographic, at least for now. 

If you want the thirty pieces of silver, well, old boy, you are going to have to earn it.  So get out there and start doing your job.  Get on Rush’s talk fest and rant about Obama’s ill gotten fortune as a Chicago slum lord!  And remember that he is first cousin to Louis Farrakhan and had an affair with Bernadette the bomber!  Dish about Michelle’s training in Cuba, whatever.  Just help out and get John in the White House, and the world is your oyster. 

But fail, old boy - and you lose all.  Forever.

Cheers,

Joe Orton

Greg,

You wrote:  “Are you saying party loyalty should prohibit democratic Hillary supporters from making up their own minds?? You’re a fool & dangerous to the american spirit!! America comes first, NOT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY!!!!”

Oh, pleeeeeeze!!!!!  I answered this question with no mention whatsoever of party or political leanings.  I’ve said in two different posts now…...
“Until I find someone who is much more qualified than any of these four I will simply write in Hillary Clinton’s name.”

I’ll try to reword this so that even you can understand it.  I did not mention the Democratic Party.  I did not mention the Republican Party.  I didn’t even mention liberals or conservatives.  Rather, I mentioned finding someone more qualified than those currently running for election.

Blueboy1938,

I agree with your statement of, “The determination of some Clintonians to vote for McBush is not a rational decision.”

Although I set out my plans early on with this statement….“Until I find someone who is much more qualified than any of these four I will simply write in Hillary Clinton’s name.”

I must laugh when I see & hear the ‘PUMA’s’.
these are the same women who told their daughters (Us 40’s +)to ‘Sit lady Like’, stop climbing trees, don’t hang out with boys - you’ll get a reputation and -all time ringer- ‘find a nice boy who makes a good living, settle down and have some kids’.
they are a few Blocks behind, about 3 decades. We stop supporting every women when we realized not every woman was worth supporting. Now we look at Candidates previous history, goals, platform.
Being a ‘Feminist’ became associated with the “FemiNazi “; the men were scum, “Pay backs a Bitch”.
What we are now are Libbers.Women are the heart and soul of the Equal rights movement because we give birth to boys & girls, all races, religions,sexual preferences…..WE are the embodiment & Bearers of Diversity, thus we are innately involved in all issues regarding life and Equality.
If Hillary supports were just being supportive of any woman,then they have commiitted a grave injustice to our gender. If they were voting for Hillary, just because she is Hillary, then they were committing an injustice to our Democracy.
If they chose to vote for McCain, out of spite, they will be committting an irreversible Injustice to the World

The determination of some Clintonians to vote for McBush is not a rational decision.  The votes for Senator Clinton because of her gender were not based on reason, either.  So it is entirely unremarkable that those still upset that a man beat a woman would vote for a candidate who does not share their values.  In fact he doesn’t even share his own prior values!

For those who may believe that John McClone is more qualified than Barack Obama, I would like to remind everyone that 35 years of “experience” that teaches one nothing is no better than 3 years experience for someone who is paying attention.  Senator McCaine learned that the way to get things done was to have something worthwhile to do in the first place, and then convince as many as possible, whatever their partisan affiliation, to join in doing it.  Unfortunately, now he simply parrots the Bush line, ignoring the facts of the economy and the debilitating effects of an unjust and unjustifiable war.  So much for experience.

Would it be better if Barack Obama had more time to demonstrate that he could actually apply the things he stands for?  Sure.  But we don’t have the time to waste on four more years of dragging this country down and subverting the Constitution with an extension of the disastrous Bush administration while he does so.  If Sarah Palin is qualified to be president, just about anybody is.

BobZ,

You wrote, “Obama had the courage to see the folly of our invasion of Iraq, and for that decision alone, he stands out.”

He saw able to see the folly of the invasion of Iraq when he wasn’t even in the Senate at the time to do anything about it.  Yet when he was finally in the Senate voted to continue warrantless spying on Americans that have done nothing except voice an opinion.  At least Clinton voted against that.  Sorry, not convinced.

FlowW74

I could have supported any of the Democratic candidates including Dennis Kucinich, and initially in favor of Edwards, then Biden, then Obama. I was prepared to go with Hillary and campaign for her if she got the nomination. Now that the Democratic convention is over, I am convinced that Obama is one of those rare politicians who can rally the country around him. We haven’t really had that since Reagan. No matter how high the bar is set, he exceeds it. His life story is the story of America, and his values are the values of America. He shows the maturity and judgement to lead this country back to respect. He will get health care coverage for all American’s passed. He will get Osama Bin Laden. He will shore up Social Security. And he will restore competency to government, which McCain and Palin would not do. Obama is right on the issues and right for America. He reminds me tremendously of Bobby Kennedy who would have gotten us out of Vietnam in 1960 and saved thousands of lives. Obama had the courage to see the folly of our invasion of Iraq, and for that decision alone, he stands out. McCain is on the wrong side of history and Obama is on the right side. Obama represents what is best about America and that is good enough for me.

George Bush and Dick Cheney have clouded Republicans minds to the point that they don’t understand left of the middle Independents, like myself, or Democrats as much as they claim to.  First off, I supported Bill Richardson until he dropped out of the race, because of his moderate stance on a majority of the issues.  Then I switched my support to Hillary Clinton.  My reasons had about 5% to do with her gender and 95% to do with her stance on issues. 

While I do not agree with her, or any other Democrat, on every issue I certainly agree with her on many matters.  Example, since I’m not the Creator I’m not qualified to dictate who someone else chooses to spend a lifetime with.  I also do not agree with abortion on demand, especially after the second trimester.  On the other hand, if a man wants to dictate to a woman what decision she and her doctor can/cannot make concerning a pregnancy, then those men should be required to surgically end their ability to sire children.  Cure the problem all the way around.  I do agree that ALL Americans are entitled to medical care they can afford, rather than going into bankruptcy over a loved ones medical bills.  I could go on and on but suffice it to say I am in the middle or slightly to the left on most of my political views.

Last, but not least, why am I still not supporting Obama??  I don’t think either major party presidential candidate or vice presidential candidate is qualified for the job.  Until I find someone who is much more qualified than any of these four I will simply write in Hillary Clinton’s name.

A large number of rabid Hillary supporters now support Palin.  They may as well have delivered a hard right to Hillary’s jaw.  Obviously, they never supported Hillary or her stand on vital issues of the day.  They supported her gender, period.

I am confused by woman who use gender as a qualifier.  I agree woman are as qualified to lead as men.  But to vote for someone simply because she is in fact a woman.  And then voting for the opposition out of spite.  Come on ladies. I can hear those misogynists now saying “I told you so.”

Though I did not support Hillary in the primaries,  I would have voted for her as President. I think she would have made a great president.

That she made such an impact on women voters, I think stems from all the hard work she has done, and what they saw as her potential to change things for the better, especially with health care.

I don’t think it was just about her being a women candidate, that’s Republican thinking.(To try and use people’s belief systems against them to grab power.)

It’s Republican thinking that got us where we are today, that the ends justify the means. From now until election day, the air will filled with their lies and half truths.

They will try everything they can to spread dissention in the Democratic party, to cast doubt on the judgement of the Clintons and of Mr. Obabama.

Just remember, the Repblican party loathes Bill Clinton, because of his success as our President. They also loath Hillary Clinton, because of her attempt to reform health care. Any concern they have now over what the Clintons are thinking or feeling,  is disengenuous.

After the Obama acceptance speech tonight, he nailed shut the coffin healed past wounds and opened a few new gashes for the Republicans.  As a staunch Cynic, I have to say, Obama knows how to make one hell of a speech, guess I am back on the Hope and change band wagon. Silly me!

BobZ

It seems you’re only batting about .400 with your presidential choices.
That’s ok, I have only voted for one winner, and slick willie left a bad taste in my mouth (no, not like poor Monica) but you get point.

Jesus, can you people please get over Hillary Clinton? Her personality cult is eating America like a cancer, and undermining the only chance we have at overthrowing the dictatorship that will continue if we don’t elect Obama. All these tears of anguish are a waste of everyone’s time; she beat herself. All the corporate money and low road tactics, lies, and racist rants by Bubba and her other attack dogs couldn’t change the fact that she is a part of the problem, not a part of the solution. Memo to Hillary: dump Bill, start toning down the wardrobe, quit trying to sound like one of the common folks, and read up on economics and the civil rights movement. This isn’t Arkansas.

Who I voted for over the years

Goldwater - The original “straight talker”
Humphrey - Nixon was a phony
McGovern - Nixon was a phony and a liar
Ford - a real moderate Republican
Reagan - I drank the koolaid
Reagan- I drank the koolaid again
H.W. Bush - Clinton cheated on his wife
Dole - A genuine war hero and Clinton was a liar and a cheat
Dubya - “Compassionate Conservative” koolaid
Kerry - Dubya lied
Obama - McCain sold his soul to Bush to get nomination

Joe,
You ask how could a Hillary supporter jump ship and vote for John McCain? Oh. come on! Do you really think that all our fellow citizens pick their favored candidate based on all the issues? We wish that was the case. Your basic political science 101 will confirm that looks, manners, tone of voice, 5 o’clock shadow, etc. mean more to the average voter. That is a shame, but the truth.

And by the way, there is nothing wrong with considering the rights of the unborn fetus. I have watched far too many end up in a suction bottle.  How many reading this might not be here had someone not thought that a life was more important than an inconvenience. Oops, that comment was above my pay scale.

Paying attention to poles during the 2 convention weeks is like reading too much into batting averages in May. Give it a few weeks.
That said, how can a republican candidate of such mediocre personality traits, still be in this race?
especially when you consider who their warmup act is(Bush).
It’s mindboggling!

re: C Quil and Southern Gal

An article worth reading: Atlantic Monthly, Sept ‘08, “The Front-runner’s Fall”  The blurb:  ‘Hillary Clinton’s campaign was undone by a clash of personalities more toxic that anyone imagined.  E-maills and memos - published here for the first time - reveal the backstabbing and conflicting strategies that produced an epic meltdown.’

Sexism may have raised its ugly head, although I detected very little, but in the end it was Hillary’s disastrous campaign managing that sunk her.

Southern Gal, I can only gently point out that the person telling her ardent supporters to accept the situation and move forward productively now is Senator Clinton ... because this is politics, and politics is *always* filled with unfairness, prejudice, shallowness, rough tactics, backroom dealing, and the ascendancy of the insiders and the well-funded.

Senator Clinton’s campaign marked the first time that a true contender for the Presidency was visibly affected by sexism during the campaign .... but that only makes it a new variant on the same unpleasantness that has *always* been a part of this process.  Unfortunately, in this case ‘equality’ means you are going to equally be on the receiving end of mindless stupidity as any other candidate, and equally subject to a vapid and headline-driven press corps that is about as interested in explaining complex political theory to their audience as they are in explaining unified gravitational theory.

I don’t believe any significant number of Clinton supporters are going to vote McCain ... anyone who claims that they’re such a person, I just assume is a disinformation agent for the McCain campaign, because intellectually it’s indefensible for a feminist to voice their outrage over the nomination process by supporting a wife-abandoning, anti-choice candidate.

Some of Senator Clinton’s supporters won’t vote.  I suspect most will vote for Obama despite misgivings, following Senator Clinton’s lead, but will be less ardently active in campaigning than they would have been had she ultimately been the nominee.  That’s fair, I don’t think anyone can blame them for that.

You just don’t get it, do you, Joe?

As Southern Gal’s comment above mentioned, Hillary’s supporters were not even given the chance to enter her on the ballot. For the first time since the 1930’s, the Democratic Convention was a coronation, not a vote.

Black men were given the vote in the U.S. before any women of any color were. The Clinton delegates were not even given the chance to vote the way their supporters had authorized them to do. While any number of misogynist comments were allowed throughout, no racist slur against Obama went unreported.

Obama is not African-American. His father was African-African, his mother was white American. His experience and upbringing was nothing like what African-Americans faced then and face now. Poor black kids of single mothers rarely go to Harvard.

It’s a good hook, though, and makes people feel all warm and fuzzy about themselves.

For the first time in this campaign, I actually felt sorry for Hillary, and saw that Obama was just going to be more of the same. How much disappointment and disillusionment can Dem supporters bear and how will they react when they find out they’ve been fooled again?

One argument posed against giving women the vote was that their ‘emotions’ more often than not ruled over their ‘good’ judgement, the logical conclusion being that they could very possibly end up putting a disaster in the WH. That potentially red-hot issue aside, it continues to flummox me that Hillary’s rabid supporters, especially assuming that they’re politically informed, hold to the belief that Obama ‘stole’ the election, rather as if he elected himself!  Very strange.

It seemed to me that Hillary’s speech, unlike her husband’s, did not answer the question that’s out here, “Who is he (Obama)?” In that sense, it missed what the convention is really about - answering the real question on many voters’ minds. At the same time, it definitely reminded us who Hillary is and what Hillary’s about, which should surprise no one.

Sir, why don’t you stop whining yourself?

Obama might have won the election if he chose Hillary for a Veep, but probably not; he would still have been black. Without her on the ticket, he will surely lose, and I think he knew that all along. He will lose. She will have no trouble getting the nomination in 2012, and so she can “make a record” in the Senate pointing toward that run.

McCain? I doubt he will be president because I doubt that the Bushitter gang of thugs would trust him not to jump the traces and do things on his own, something that George could never do because he is a moron unable to make a decision at all. And if the Repubs don’t change horses at their own convention and put Jeb Bush or some other follower of orders from on high, then I seriously doubt that there will even BE an election until probably 2015 or so, and W will keep being preznit until that time, just like any dictator would do.

The Congress? Shit. They are so toothless that they can’t even make Karl Rove testify. They will do nothing as always until they find some way to screw the little guy again and again—-as they also always do.

He look nobody likes to loose…

Hillary’s supporters invested a lot of time and effort, in trying to get elected…so I don’t blame them if they are a little bit disapointed.

It will take them a while to get over it, it’s understandable, when you put so much energy into something like that, your not going to rebound right away.

Republican plants?  Possible, but really only an opinion of one who believes the differences between the two corporate parties are real.

Here’s what I would love to hear come from Hillary:

“Let me state this in no uncertain terms.  To anyone of my dedicated supporters who intends to vote for McCain rather than vote for Obama, I say, YOU DON’T KNOW ME AT ALL.  That kind of a sentiment is not flattering. It is not supportive.  It is a stab in my back and a stab in the back of all those I have been working to help for 35 years.”

Many people supported Clinton not because of what she says but because of what she is.  (And this is also true of Obama.)  As Emerson or somebody like that once said, “What your are stands above you and its voice drowns out everything you say.”  Including “go vote for the other guy.”  It may seem stupid, but that’s the way people are.

As for Clinton supporters shifting to McCain, well, they’re both war and imperialism fans.  Why not, then?  They may find Obama insufficiently bloody-minded.

I don’t buy it Frank. Don’t you think these people are more Republican plants than actual Hillary Clinton admirers?

Democracy Now! had a woman on yesterday who was all about Hillary’s nomination, but she really couldn’t say much at all. Just, “it’s about process… Process is important…. These processes are normal…” Just defending her decision to cast her vote for Hillary, which is fine because she’s an elected Hillary delegate. Most people aren’t.

Still, I think there is a double-standard here because, while I acknowledge and love Obama’s nomination, it is apparent how Hillary supporters are treated meanly. Partly because we were the target of their insults on the campaign trail, and most of them were often lacking in any real information. Core Obama supporters want to bask in the glory, and Hillary’s name was a bitter pill until Tuesday night.

I think most Democrats have begun to forgive each other. It is also very logical to me that there are many paid neoconservative shills feigning support for Hillary purely to stir up complex emotions and buyers remorse. Don’t believe the lie.

It is not about issues for those people. It is not about the future. It is not about doing what is best for America.

These people are, quite simply, members of a cult built around the personality of the Clintons.

Their motives, like those of Scientologists and other cultists who feel slighted by outsiders, are now purley vindictive. In the wake of Hillary’s primary defeat, Barack Obama,the DNC leaders, and anyone who supports Obama are now ‘fair game’ in the mindset of these people. As time goes on, they will be more isolated, more desperate, more extreme in their tactics. It will get uglier.

These types of voting behaviors by Democrats support a theory that I’ve always maintained. Namely, that Democrats often vote Republican but Republicans rarely vote Democratic. I’ll leave the “whys” to your imagination but this is why Democrats lose elections.