Curious this article credits the Democratic platform plank to Hillary supporters without mentioning Norman Solomon, an Obama delegate and member of the Progressive Democrats of America (PDA)—whose “Healthcare not Warfare” platform challenges both the Obama and Clinton “universal coverage” scams, both of which leave in place the parasitic middle men (for profit carriers and HMOs) which account for 31% of healthcare costs in single-payer countries.  The plan being advocated in the platform is “single-payer” and the individuals in Congress who should be credited for it are Dennis Kucinich and John Conyers.

Cyrena, you seem fixated on Marie’s supposed agenda to discredit Obama, but in fact you’re the one with an agenda. Well, maybe “agenda” isn’t the right word. Let’s just call it a hair across your arse about anyone who advocated for Hillary while criticizing Obama. Marie just happens to have been the primary contributer here at TD who fit that bill.

But let’s look at what she’s SAYING, rather than what you read into it (she’s a popagandist on a mission to destroy Obama). This article is about universal health care, and an apparent drift in the Democratic party away from having that goal in their platform. Is she wrong? Not as far as I can tell. You don’t even present an argument against her thesis, only that she ties her thesis to Obama. But he IS the leader of the Dem ticket, isn’t he?

You’re right, the “only” difference between Obama’s HC solution and Hillary’s is that Hillary makes acquiring HC manditory. But it’s an absolutely HUGE difference. On the face of it, Obama’s approach sounds more reasonable - more American, even - because he doesn’t include mandates. But if you don’t mandate opting into the system, there will NEVER be either reasonable insurance costs or pressure to move to single payer. Who will opt out of insurance? Mostly healthy 25-40 year olds, who either have too much money to qualify for Medicaid but not enough to afford even the barest premiums or who would rather spend their money on car payments for the Beamer. These are the folks that insurance companies depend on to offset the less healthy customers. If everyone HAS to buy insurance, than claims-to-premiums basis is optimized, keeping insurance costs as low as possible. But given insurance companies drive for profits, it will still be very high. which is where you get a broader base of electorate pushing for gov-operated single-payer.

That, I believe, is what Clinton (and Edwards) were aiming for, and it’s what Cocco is advocating for. Kucinich failed, not because his health plan was unattractive, but because HE was unattractive - too liberal, too fast, too soon for most of the electorate.

Clinton and Edwards saw the political realities, and did their best to work within it. Obama chose an approach that would appeal to centrist-conservative independents - a not-insignificant part of the elecctorate that pushed him over the top. I like Obama, but this is one of his decisions I have a problem with. And so should you, even if it means - God forbib! - you agree with Marie.

Blueboy57

I wasn’t blaming just ‘one’ generation, I was blaming the last few, and maybe I should narrow it down to the last 40 or so years…

You say this…

There are plenty of 20 somethings more than willing to carry on the torch of political ambiguity, while relishing their fleeting independance by the continuing American idols, like leisure and sportsaholicism to care all that much. They’re the same. No different.

~~~~~`

This is true. Now how and why do you suppose that is, that these ’20-somethings’ are willing to carry this torch?

I’ve worked and lived among all classes and groups of people for decades. I’ve watched the change, and I’ve noticed the MOST destruction, (primarily some VERY superficial and materialistic values) handed down by MY OWN generation, and yes…the one before mine, to understand how things have become as they are. And quite frankly, this has been far more prevalent in the so-called ‘middle to upper’ classes, than it has been in lower economic or the working classes of our society.

And, on it goes, so that the apathy as well as the ignorance continues to be perpetrated, even though I agree 100% that the media is largely responsible. Still, does the media not reflect these generations as well?

So, if it appeared that I was attempting to lay it on just ‘our’ generation, than I stand corrected. I’m also not suggesting that every single person of ‘our’ generation has been guilty of overwhelming crimes. Many of us do the best we can, and take our responsibilities seriously. There are too many others that have not, and we are inclined to blame certain trends or negative consequences on the wrong things..like anything from crime rates to a bad economy.

And let’s be fair about the reality of political participation up till now. What has become the ‘average American’ over the past 40 years is simply NOT politically motivated. Less than half of the eligible voting population even bothers to vote. We’re basically uniformed, and apathetic. And as Sheldon Wolin suggests in his excellent work, “Democracy Inc” the elite want to keep it that way. That’s been ‘the plan’ for a long time now, and it’s worked. (for them)

But yes, I’m also very much aware of the numerous groups, OF ALL AGES, who are in fact actively seeking to change that –now-. I’m involved in many of them. But I’m also involved in an environment of younger people who are far more politically conscious than was the same group when I was the same age.

Re BB -

It’s a Republic that openly states it’s intention to export it’s brand of Democracy to the so called ignorant masses beyond it’s own borders. So what kind of Republicanism do you call that?
And what does that say about a Republic that can’t even get it right at home yet, to be as arrogant as that?!

Re: Purple Girl -
Right on PG, dead on!

When the Gov of any country deliberately deceives, & harms repeatedly the citizens of it’s country it is TIME for the people of the nation: to vote: STATING we are DONE with the way THIS country has been run for a very long time. Political appointees, deliberately DECEIVING the people of THIS country: deliberately STATING what “can”/can not be said to the citizens of the country; ie: the energy crisis; when they deliberately (working with Corps) AGAINST the people of the nation: Federal law says: SHAREHOLDERS come 1st; Personal GREED comes before SOCIAL need; refusing to pay health coverage when they are COVERED by their health plan that THEY pay for: because “it effects” the Corp’s PROFITS; is SLAVERY. It is CRIMINAL, it is FRAUD. This is being done in every single aspect of this country REPEATEDLY. “do you feel like a victim” Obama asks; if NOT you SHOULD! Because you have been stalked, targeted, watched, listened to, and attached at every single aspect of your life; PREDATORY: you know what a “sexual” predator is: THESE folks are highly skilled, working with psychological knowledge, TRAINED what to say, PRACTICE what to say, in “front” of TV, RADIO, PRINT. Psychological warfare is being done to the people of the USA; DELIBERATE LYING, ABUSE beyond belief: like an onion, it keeps getting more & more & more layered; you THINK there is a LAW: but “it was overturned” back several years ago, ha ha ha. They are obtaining the original archives of the internet: and “replacing” them with BACK DATED information. Unless you are networking with multiple groups you have not got a CLUE.

Saggy,
Much of your premise is correct. I cannot understand the apathy of the American voter (especially the dimmos). Nobody in the Dimmo party heirarchy will support a Kucinich, not because of his left wing proclivities, but because of the package. Are we all so shallow to think that an ugly little man cannot be president? Apparenly so.
However, we do need to discuss Barry’s supposed and hinted policies because it is all we’ve got. This is a Republic, not a democracy, so we are forced to vote for a candidate whose views we mostly agree with, instead of one who agrees with our views.
I would like to think that, given the opportunity we would all do the right thing about the war, healthcare, and domestic spying.
But as time goes on, I begin to wonder.

#4. the REASON you “feel” and/or THINK “no one cares” is the Gov KNOWING the power of PRINT, and IMAGES; carefully does NOT allow you to “see”, “hear” or KNOW what is actually going on in this country. So YOU are left EXACTLY where THEY want you to be: in ignorance of what the PEOPLE of this nation WANT, are DOING, etc; “they” claim “democracy” means you (meaning WE) can do whatever we want, however we want, for as long as we want UNTIL the people say no; REALLY? they “claim” that “no one else has a plan” so THEY have to “make” the “decisions” cuz no one else is intelligent as they are; so, they are going to go with THEIR agenda: remember well these words: terrorists are those committing violence or HARMFUL ACTS against civilians who do not morally deserve it, usually POLITICAL PARTIES for THEIR OWN AGENDA. Hence, you KNOW that the WHOLE WORLD knows the TRUTH; they KNOW, SEE, and UNDERSTAND that the Gov of the USA is the tyrants, bullies, and true terrorists of the planet. It may “appear” or “seem” to be the law; however, it is overturned, or “backdated” to “prove” their innocence; it is FRAUD, DECEPTION, LIES, MISDIRECTION, distraction, etc; it is a SET UP for the citizens of the USA.

Saggy, you are quite wrong. 1st, the voting is RIGGED. Proven time & time & time again: you vote one way & if you bother to LOOK it is NOT marked HOW YOU VOTED. THEREFORE: our supposedly “elected” officials are NOT “our” choice at all. #2: if you were on multiple emails & places with numerous folks: ie, immigration problem which has at it’s root the problem of the illegally in office folks: they are a problem but not THE root of the problem; #3. vets: were you even aware of the fact that the Gov (illegally in office folks) working hand in hand with Corp’s which is the way this country is run which is TOTALLY AGAINST the reason, & purpose, & idea behind HOW a democracy is SUPPOSED to work: were behind the “anti vet” going around this country? Yep! THEY are the ones who DENIED vets the RIGHT to medical treatment that anyone going into combat REQUIRES; then they claim “mental problems” of everyone in the military; with the Corps stating “we don’t want to hire military personnel” because of the mental problems; some have NEVER received a CENT of disability pay.

ANY ‘HEALTHCARE PLAN’ WHICH CONTINUES TO MAINTAIN INSURANCE CO’S STRANGLE HOLD IS BS!!!
Even though I support Sen Obama, I do not support his insurance co laden proposal.
This is no solution since health care insurance providers are nothing more than speculating middlemen.
The epitome of what they have done to our National health is seen in the microcosm of what they did to Seniors, by stealing their medicare health coverage -limiting services and but charging the Medicare system outrageous prices due totheir overhead.
It’s time to get their hand out of our nations ‘Cookie jar’ and Our Pockets.
I don’t give a shit what the call it- ‘universal’, ‘socialized’ it all boils down to everyone is covered and hsa accesss to quality care
Because MD’s have realized they can make more from doing speciality like cosmetic surgery, there has grown a sharp decline in Geriatric and OB/GYN Docs.Going to a NatIonal health care ssytem will end double billing costs, reduce malpractice insurance cost (which is the other bread winning for Insurance Corps) and encourage medical people to return to areas wheere there is the greatest need.Without a healthy citizenship, we will never have a healthy workforce, or economy.
Clinton never tried to end the reign of terror by these health insurance corps- she only tried to make it look like she gave a shit about the nations health.
Get these fucking Profiteers OUT, they are literally (and figuratively ) Killing US!!!

Re Cryna:

You can’t lay the massive failure of representation at the feet of a generation. Look at how manipulated, looking back were the “greatest generation”. They were so naive as to the foundations of oppression and political gain by the elite.

No “our” generation did not sell out to corporate interests the way the Clinton’s did after becoming elected. Nor did we rig, by fraud the last two elections. These occorances are happening by poor leadership and a complicit media.
While the electore becomes more and more numb, to the corportization of the political process, it is by no means a given that the status-quo of the present game will continue. There are mumberous grass roots movements and groundswells that continue to gain strength, unabated by the nausiating lack of proper respect/attention given by the mainstream media.
While there is plenty of blame to go around for our present political mailaize, with a lack of sure party representation to most average Americans, blaming one generation for the fall is not reality.
There are plenty of 20 somethings more than willing to carry on the torch of political ambiguity, while relishing their fleeting independance by the continuing American idols, like leisure and sportsaholicism to care all that much. They’re the same. No different.

Re Big B, August 12 at 6:57 am

Part 1 of 2

•  “The sad truth is that Americans, on the whole, are a fairly dim people, that need to be led. Why do you think we keep falling for the empty rhetoric of mediocre neo-cons (Nixon, Reagan, Bush, CLINTON, and shrub).”

I’m inclined to agree with you on this Big B..more than inclined. And, we’re seeing it still, with anyone who sees Obama as a ‘sellout’ already. (that makes no sense in terms of the traditional ‘sellout’ – which never happens until AFTER they’ve gained office, or the position, or whatever it is.) Most ‘sell-outs’ will promise ‘the people’ everything to get in, and then never deliver. It’s an axiom. The public, (and specifically the swiftboater’s behind McCain) are ‘defining’ Obama as an incumbent who has already ‘sold out’ on the things that you’ve mentioned, when in reality, he’s a Jr. Senator who has limited powers restricted to his one vote as a senator. That is particularly the case with the spying, which of course was pretty horrific, but the focus has been on him, rather than on the overwhelming majority of the Congress that passed it. I’m not sure how we’re already calling him a ‘sell out’ on the war, since the reality speaks differently to that as well. Still, it’s been very convenient, and overwhelming clever on the part of his opposition. McCain and his team, (far smarter than he) which includes the real movers/shakers/destroyers of everything past and present, has gotta be loving it.

But it’s true that Americans are so damn terrorized after nearly 4 decades of this stuff, that they don’t recognize empty rhetoric now, from the truth or reality, and that includes those who are seemingly ‘less dim’. In fact, it’s the ‘less dim’ who honestly believe themselves to be ‘smarter than the rest’ that I find most taken in by it all. And that’s from years of ‘observation’.

Because the reality is, health care didn’t JUST become jacked-up, but where was the rest of my own generation of boomers and late boomers when it kicked off, close to 40 years ago? How many people were complaining then, at least to the extent of those who might have been heard? Too busy thinking they had reached the American Dream. They had jobs, (many of them good paying) and they had benefits from those jobs..yep, health care. (and as younger bunch, needed it less). So in other words, they had theirs, and so who cares about the rest?  They thought HMO’s were the best thing since sliced bread.

So when Regan started busting unions, and deregulating everything in the world, and selling us all out to the corporate oligarchy, who cared or paid any attention? Not even the ‘less dim’ crowd. They kept their heads down and their noses clean. Didn’t wanna rock the boat of course. And, if the natives became restless anywhere along the way, and threatened to put a halt to this big heist, ‘they’ would throw a few crumbs our way, and just take more out of the other end without anybody noticing.

Now all of a sudden, everybody’s bitching about how we don’t have this universal health care, because slowly, without most folks noticing, those so-called ‘benefits’ have been stripped away.

That is exactly what Sheldon Wolin addresses and analyzes so brilliantly in his latest work, “Democracy Incorporated”

Here’s a quick except from the jacket flap,

“…Sheldon Wolin considers the unthinkable: has America unwittingly morphed into a new and strange kind of political hybrid, one where economic and state powers are conjoined and virtually unbridled? Can the nation check its descent into what the author terms ‘inverted totalitarianism’?

It goes on, and this is right to your point

“Wolin portrays a country where citizens are politically uninterested and submissive—- and where elites are eager to keep them that way. At best the nation has become a ‘managed democracy’ where the public is shepherded, not sovereign. At worst it is a place where corporate power no longer answers to state controls…”

Part 2 of 2 re Big B

So, there we have it. While we claim that Americans are waiting for someone to take the lead, and “show us the way”, we reject it, based on whatever is superficially perceived as something else, and that is all very carefully crafted by the very elites that are mentioned in just this short excerpt, because Americans can’t see below the surface, let alone begin to understand the political nuance involved, particularly at the level of decline that we’ve reached at this point.

In fact, just my read of these columns/comments for nearly 2 years now, points to the standard mentality of how we want it all, and instantly, and for the most part, American’s don’t want to put any effort into getting whatever that is. We don’t keep the pressure on, and when someone (the occasional one) comes along to try and find a path through the very obstacles that the elite DOES work very hard at putting in the way, we generally don’t get that either.

Those have been my observations (and experience) for nearly 40 years, and there’s no doubt I’ve been as guilty as most, at least part of the time. The only difference is that I do see how we’ve self-sabotaged, and continue to do exactly that. (and I saw it as it happened, and could do little) Seems like we’d figure out by now, the age old trick of divide and conquer. But we’ve obviously not managed to do that, which is why the elite have been able to do exactly what they’ve been able to do.

And yeah, it is sad. It’s sad because it would appear that Americans don’t really want somebody to ‘lead them’ in terms of showing a ‘way’, or more importantly, MAKING a way…opening up a path that will allow us to do what we need to do for ourselves. Clearing the obstacles so to speak, of an apparatus that has become an intricate web that has most of us trapped in it. So when we claim that we need somebody to ‘lead’ or show us the way, that rhetoric is as empty as anything else. By and large, Americans want somebody to fix what they’ve allowed to become fucked up, over an extended period of time, and they want it all now. That’s a pipe dream, because it’s ALWAYS a jillion times harder to repair something, then it was to break it in the first place.

But, I disagree with you that the Obama campaign has lost the ‘vibrancy’ of its youth and progressive (I mean REAL progressive) element. I observe the opposite here in my area, as well as other demographics, since it’s been my experience to live in many areas over the decades. These younger people are far smarter than my own generation, and they ‘get’ how we’ve let the ball drop, and allowed their birthrights to be stolen from right under our noses. My take is that pretty much everything now rests on their shoulders, as we continue to self-sabotage by throwing away votes.

I’ve noticed it particularly among those fortunate enough to be in school, and as part of that community, I encourage them (or each other would be a better term) to break things open when they ‘hear’ or read something. When I hear people say (as you have) that Obama, (or anybody at any time) has sold us out on spying, or the wars, or energy, or anything else, I ask them to break it done to the mechanics of it all. The best way to do it, is to ask, ponder, or consider…what ELSE could he have done? HOW could he have done it differently? This is particularly helpful because it forces a real life knowledge of how the system actually works. And until we know that, we can’t fix it.

Anyway, I recommend the book for anyone who really would like to understand how we’ve been played, and continue to be so.

“Democracy Incorporated” by Sheldon S Wolin

The American people deserve AT MINIMUM, the kind of health care enjoyed by our glorious leaders in the house and senate(.) Anything else is a slap in the face. Whoever is employed, deserves nothing less.

I can’t help myself; I have to say this one more time:

If the dems screw this up, they should go the way of the republicans (which may be a good thing.)

I can think of no reason or circumstances that make involving insurance companies in the drug and health business beneficial to either the American people or the government that would not be greatly offset by their not being involved at all.  People employed in the insurance industry can either go into alternative energy or infrastructure or take a much deserved lengthy vacation in Aruba, which they most likely can well-afford.

their was One who said: by your words you are justified, by your words you are condemned; “trying” to “explain” that THIS is the way democracy works; it is NOT. THIS nation was set up to be FOR THE PEOPLE; the agressiveness of deliberately putting formaldehyde in EVERYTHING from carpeting, to clothes, to furniture, to all backpacks, shoes, etc; is diabolically evil & is done with the full consent of the FDA & our Gov; learning that Hitler had put floride in the water supply to harm the people our nation learned all it could from it & escalated to the nth degree; Rice runs around the world saying “no gov should abuse it’s citizens”; pot calling the kettle black; your deoderants folks have 1 to 8 known & banned supposedly toxins KNOWN to harm you; all your shampoos, cleaning supplies; toxic wastes; causing severe damage to humans; even Johnson baby shampoos; think our Gov is there to “protect” us? CHANGE YOUR THINKING FAST! I just learned all of this when started to try to go green; the more I find, the rottener it is; file charges with the international Court (which our country ignores) for deliberate harming of citizens by poisoning; the only folks on the planet not aware of some of this folks is US: the citizens of the USA. By DELIBERATELY hiding the TRUTH: and DECEIVING it’s citizens for the PROFIT of a few. They need to ALL be prosecuted for deliberate premeditated harmful ACTS against civilians of this nation; BTW, infant formula contains growth hormones, other toxins the FDA “claim” are ok; & most of them go to work for the big Pharma companies afterwards; they also contain 52% corn syrup guarenteed to make you obese & harm from the start; from A to Z, this country is basically run by prostitutes; give a me the money, you can harm the people in THIS way: consider credit cards: usury laws protecting the PEOPLE tossed aside, including loan sharking & predatory; in every single way it has “progressively worked AGAINST the people, the land, the water; it is OUR country: we are NOT going to leave; we are going to FIX it; trickery is the word for treason; no laws against it; traitor is one who BETRAYS ones trust; does not fulfill their duty or their respsonsiblity esp in governing; we all need to go on a traitor hunt in our Gov just like McCartney did on Communist hunt in my opinion; which I have let them know, BTW.

The only thing the Dems will do is find a way to funnel billions - if not trillions - of dollars to the health care industry that is funding their campaigns. WE THE PEOPLE will not end up any better off.

there has never been a reason for the lack of health care in this nation. ANY GOOD Gov would have seen it was done, and MUCH MORE for the people. Instead: Hillary is lauded for her “accomplishments”; which are letting long time employees in White House go, hiring new at lower wage, & letting them work 39 hours only thus denying them health care. When the Clinton’s left office they took a great deal of items with them because they are crooks; our “system” works this way: having been bought & paid for long ago the people should NEVER look to the Gov for help because they are NOT there for them, haven’t ever been, never will be. You are POISONED deliberately in multiple ways to cause the health problems so the sister Pharma company can over bill you 600,000 times the cost of meds; they pay drs offices to MEET prescription quotas, & drs get mega prizes to push the pill of the month; when you ARE covered with insurance Fed Law says the insurance companies do NOT have to pay for things listed as being covered; Calif senator explained it thus: you ARE covered: until you get ill; then FEDERAL LAW says insur companies do NOT have to pay for anything even tho it is in contract IF it effects their profits. Welcome to the land of the “free”: which simply means everyone has the right to exploit you to the maximum with a lot of help from our “Gov”; and FDA; tired of being DUPED YET? Criminals & crooks run this Gov & NOTHING is done for the BENEFIT of the PEOPLE; laws are for “show” only; and the lawmakers are the lawbreakers backed by Judges who THEY appointed;

We of the liberal pursuation know that Hillary’s leftover supporters (of which there are many, not me of course, but many) still have a wet dream that somehow, between now and the convention, Obama will get caught (ala Edwards) with his hand in the cookie jar. And then Hillary can rise from the ashes and save the neo-liberal cause.
What the Obama supporters don’t realize is that the closer he moves to the center (right) the more of his taccid supporters he alienates. Hillary’s people won’t have to hope to divide and conquer the dimmo hoy poly, for Obama will have done it himself (as he already has).
Obama fails to realize that fence sitting dimmos vated for him in the primaries because he was the anti-Hillary, against the war. But he has since evolved into Hillary-lite, causing core dimmos to question their support of him, and alienating the very people who gave his candidacy vibrance, the liberal, the young, and the disaffected anti-clintonians still in the party.
The biggest thing that Obama, Clinton and the rest of the dimmos don’t realize is that Americans are waiting for someone to take the lead, show them the way towards universal healthcare, an end to the war(s), and an end to our petroleum based economy.
The sad truth is that Americans, on the whole, are a fairly dim people, that need to be led. Why do you think we keep falling for the empty rhetoric of mediocre neo-cons (Nixon, Reagan, Bush, CLINTON, and shrub).
I kept waiting for Obama to show us the way. But he has proven himself to be just another wolf in(black) sheeps clothing.
Looks like i’ll be throwing my vote away again this year.

Big B you ask…

Why does the Dimmo party support a candidate(Obama) that is selling out the Dimmo voters already, when it comes to universal healthcare access (as well as the WAR, domestic spying, ect)

The answers are simple. As the repugs have moved farther to right on EVERY issue, the Dimmos have chosen to move to the RIGHT as well!
Face it all you dimmos out there in TV land, you’re being sold out yet again.” The sad part is that you either are too dumb to realize it, or just don’t care anymore.

~~~

Naw Big B…you’re partially right here, (at least on all the stuff you’ve mentioned as major concerns.

BUT, you’ve been taken in by the barely disguised and still very disgruntled shill for Hillary Clinton. Marie Cocco is the resident anti-Obama columnist for TD. After several more of her articles, (or maybe it won’t take you that many) you’ll figure it out. Maries’s stuff is thinly disguised propaganda, to with all of the anti-Obama crowd can flock, and she still holds out her spinster dream hopes that Hillary will take the nomination away from Obama at the convention.

Meantime, it has it’s typical effect on those who haven’t been paying close enough attention to the nuance of the whole thing, and get caught up in the right/left paradigm, with is a major hoax. There is no such thing anymore, as right and left, even though there are those who still cling to it, because the ‘era of dick bush’ has totally changed the political system in this country, and it a way that most Americans have yet to understand.

Could be why they don’t understand Obama, which is what people like Marie Cocco take advantage of. The reality is, (whether we like it or not) Obama hasn’t ‘moved’ anywhere in his own ideology. He’s always been been pretty much to the center, which should be obvious in his cautiousness, and his focus on reality, and what is actually possible.

He knows the health care system is jacked up here, and he uses the same careful language of most lawyers. The issue here, (which has been totally twisted by Marie, and intentionally so) is the difference between MANDATORY requirements for EVERYONE to PURCHASE insurance coverage, (at what both of these ‘camps’ have promised to be ‘affordable) and the option for adults to NOT purchase it, if they choose not to.

That’s why he promises ‘access’ (to anyone who wants it) and Hillary demands mandatory purchase, for every single American, despite the fact that there is no way for that to be enforced.

THAT is the same argument between these two ‘camps’ that has been going on for over a year, because it is the ONE AND ONLY DIFFERENCE, between the health care plans that they offer. Obama hasn’t changed a single word of the health care plan that he offered up from day one, and while we all know that it isn’t perfect, it’s also absolutely NO different from any other the others that have been presented, with the exception of Dennis Kucinich.

The Kucinich plan was far better, and can still be incorporated if anyone wants to do it. Otherwise, these plans are the same as they’ve always been, and the Repug candidate is offering NOTHING. Neither are the ‘alternative’ candidates.

So, Marie is just up to her standard tricks, and not likely to let it go, even after the January 21st inauguration, which won’t have Hillary in the picture.

That said, I’m still looking into property in Mexico.

Don’t expect much from Obama, he’s a member of good standing with the financial empire. That being: Banking industry, Insurance industry and the Brokerage industry. He’s their man and the after the election the importance of the citizen will be regulated to insignificance, again.
Are dimmos better than repugs? Yes, only by the crumbs they spill off to the proletariat, they both are shilling for Big Business.

The Dimmocrates need to ask themselves these questions prior to their convention,
Why is the US the only western industrialized nation that does not guarantee universal heathcare access?
Why don’t they recognize that our healthcare system is what has caused a lack of economic expansion in the US?
Why does the Dimmo party support a candidate(Obama) that is selling out the Dimmo voters already, when it comes to universal healthcare access (as well as the WAR, domestic spying, ect)
The answers are simple. As the repugs have moved farther to right on EVERY issue, the Dimmos have chosen to move to the RIGHT as well!
Face it all you dimmos out there in TV land, you’re being sold out yet again.
The sad part is that you either are too dumb to realize it, or just don’t care anymore.