happy pam…

You gotta get out and do some traveling. Your comparsion of U.S. vs THEM in dealing with foreign tourists reveals your naivete. Wow.

So do this: Buy a ticket and fly to Europe, get sick, maybe get into a little trouble with the law, maybe lose all your money…and see what happens. Then come back and tell us all how much better the U.S. treats foreign tourists. You don’t know the difference and you won’t until you get out into the world…which, incidentally, is beautiful.

When do American hypocrites start to wake up from your bloody illusion that the world revolves only around you?

You said “the Chinese government seems to have no compunction about antagonizing those for whom liberty and human rights take priority over sports and making money.”

If you think liberty and human rights are more important than anything else, fine! But please do not impose that ideals on other people!

Stop whimpering about how China is “antagonizing” the West for not adopting Western ways of governance. You are antagonizing us by your incessant, imperialistic and egregious imposition of your WHITE MAN’S VALUES.

And if this fine American athlete and Mr./Mr. Dionne so much care about human rights, they should say something about the abject human right conditions in Saudi Arabia which is neither democratic nor liberal. Why are you all collectively silent on this topic? Because Saudi Arabia is an US ally! Because they provide oil to you!

Hahaha. So much for your “liberty and human rights over making money” argument!

Disgusting…

Maybe the MAJORITY of Chinese citizens want the games[and the $$$$ from said games] in their country-but OBVIOUSLY ALL CITIZENS ARE NOT WELL PLEASED-that was made very clear when Parents of Olympic Athletes are ATTACKED[and killed] as they attempt to see the country where OUR ATHLETES are COMPETING….
[I have never understood why-with all the beauty here-some one would put their life in the hands of another countries judicial system-knowing that most likely-nothing will ever be done to the perpetrator.]At least-when a foreign tourist is attacked in the U.S.A.-LAW ENFORCMENT does their job of finding the culprits and punishing them…

Thanks, TigerStar, for the Ron Paul statement (for those who desire a link, try http://tinyurl.com/6z8d7z) ! While I disagree strongly with much of my dear colleague’s Weltanschauung, I must admit that he seems to be one of the few persons holding national office in the United States who stand for a Republic, rather than Empire. That he dared to stand up and be counted in opposing the hypocrisy and cant inherent in H Res 1370 is admirable ; he was, in fact, the only representative to vote against the resolution (Dennis Kucinich voted «present» - http://tinyurl.com/6gtp3b), which was passed with a vote of 419 - 1. Way to go, Dr Paul !...

Henri

Re Dorothy Reik, August 9 at 9:40 pm #

“In Ancient Greece, during the Olympics all war stopped. That was the point. Tonight I had the surrealistic experience of watching my “tivo” of the opening of the Olymnpic games on while gazing at the front page of the NYTimes which featured a Georgian man dying is his friend’s arms, thanks to the Russian invasion, which began at the same time as the opening ceremonies. Just as I was trying to wrap my boggled mind around that I saw Putin and war president Bush, chatting in up in the stands of the Olympic stadium. Meanwhile the Chinese are at war with their own citizens and Beijing’s air is threatening to kill or sicken the athletes. The opening ceremony was visually spectacular. It’s too bad the actions of the the Chinese, Russian and American “leaders” make a mockery of the athletes’ noble dedication to sport and world harmony.”
————————& #8212;———————R 12;———————— —
Dorothy,

The Olympics is really about what we, the human race, could be. There is a harsh contrast between what we could be and what we are, and that is the moral lesson that the Olympics should teach us. But I think we defeat the purpose of the Olympics by allowing the reality of what we are to intrude. God knows we have plenty of time and space for war and conflict and acrimony all the time all over the planet.

In spite of the fact that their countries are at war, I just heard on CNN that Olympic athletes from Russia and Georgia who were once teammates for the former Soviet Union are embracing. That can only be a good thing.

The Olympics is a time for good will. It’s even good to see President Bush there; his China policy might be the only decent thing about his presidency.

My comment was a speak by Ron Paul to Congress against Jingoism and Hypocrisy of the USA.

The USA has no legal authority in China.

Statement before the US House of Representatives, July 30, 2008, on H. RES. 1370, Calling on the Government of the People’s Republic of China to immediately end abuses of the human rights of its citizens

Madam Speaker, I rise in opposition to this resolution, which is yet another meaningless but provocative condemnation of China. It is this kind of jingoism that has led to such a low opinion of the United States abroad. Certainly I do not condone human rights abuses, wherever they may occur, but as Members of the US House of Representatives we have no authority over the Chinese government. It is our Constitutional responsibility to deal with abuses in our own country or those created abroad by our own foreign policies. Yet we are not debating a bill to close Guantanamo, where abuses have been documented. We are not debating a bill to withdraw from Iraq, where scores of innocents have been killed, injured, and abused due to our unprovoked attack on that country. We are not debating a bill to reverse the odious FISA bill passed recently which will result in extreme abuses of Americans by gutting the Fourth Amendment.

Instead of addressing these and scores of other pressing issues over which we do have authority, we prefer to spend our time criticizing a foreign government over which we have no authority and foreign domestic problems about which we have very little accurate information.

I do find it ironic that this resolution “calls on the Government of the People’s Republic of China to begin earnest negotiations, without preconditions, directly with His Holiness the Dalai Lama or his representatives.” For years US policy has been that no meeting or negotiation could take place with Iran until certain preconditions are met by Iran. Among these is a demand that Iran cease uranium enrichment, which Iran has the right to do under the terms of the Non-Proliferation Treaty. It is little wonder why some claim that resolutions like this are hypocritical.

Instead of lecturing China, where I have no doubt there are problems as there are everywhere, I would suggest that we turn our attention to the very real threats in a United States where our civil liberties and human rights are being eroded on a steady basis. The Bible cautions against pointing out the speck in a neighbor’s eye while ignoring the log in one’s own. I suggest we contemplate this sound advice before bringing up such ill-conceived resolutions in the future.

By BlackOps, August 10 at 5:49 am #

If I don’t like the way my government is running things it’s my constitutional right to gripe and bitch about it and try to change it, utilizing all means necessary.  Read the Declaration of Independence sometime.

Blackops, its dumbasses like yourself who try to stifle opinion and pretend it’s your country and no one elses…you a Regents U grad?  You most likely are and serve in government.

Dorothy Reik, you might want to check the facts concerning the Georgian invasion of South Ossetia, which seems to have been the result of a (mis)calculation on the part of Mikheil Saakashvili and his CIA handlers that with Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin attending the Olympic Games in Beijing, nobody was minding the store in Moscow and that Georgian troops could therewith bomb and shell South Ossetians (90 % of whom are said to hold Russian passports) and take over the territory with impunity. It didn’t quite work out that way, and as a result of yet another clumsy attempt on the part of the United States government to play the Great Game, thousands more people have died, to add to the tens of thousands in Afghanistan and over a million in Iraq. The analyses of events you read today in journals like the New York Times are about as unbiased and accurate as those justifying the invasion of Iraq you read on 19 March 2003….

Henri

By stevelaudig, August 9 at 3:31 pm

So, what’s your point? Who you callin’ a hypocrite?

The original meaning of the Olympics for the ancient Greeks is that it was a time for people to PUT ASIDE their political differences and celebrate their human solidarity. That is the only meaning it should have today. No matter how vile you think a government is, the Olympics is precisely the wrong place to protest it.

Moreover, it is certainly true that with our own government being in the control of fascists and the biggest international outlaw on the planet, we should not be criticizing the speck in our neighbor’s eye while overlooking the beam in our own.

Troublesum, I don’t read oketa’s message as subscribing to what you accurately call «[t]he myth that it all started with Bush/Cheney», which, I must agree, is indeed «tiresome», as it leads to the delusion that all will be better if the deadly duo are replaced. What oketa said in his second paragraph (which, I presume, is the one to which you take exception) is the following :

If you had asked me 8 years ago whether I would ever be living in a country where a citizen can be grabbed off the street, tortured, and imprisoned without trail I would have said that would never happen.  But that could happen to anyone in the US under our current regime.  Where is the outrage?  Our press and Congress meekly support the farce that we call a “war on terrorism”.  The real threat to the US is sitting behind a desk in the White House.

To me at least, this is much the same message, albeit a bit more detailed and including a personal reaction to the process of disillusionment that has taken place these last eight years, as when you write : «Our current regime has a more in your face attitude about it that’s all.» Perhaps you and oketa are on the same side, after all ? If so, a pity to let misunderstandings stand in the way of a very necessary unity, if the present situation (which, as the Wikipedia lynching article shows, has obtained for well over a century) is to be changed….

Henri

Prior to Bush/Cheney the Constitution of the United States protected everyone in all circumstances.  We have always been a nation of laws. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching_in_the_United_States

Oketa,
Throughout our history people have been arrested, tried, convicted, and executed on trumped up charges.  Our current regime has a more in your face attitude about it that’s all.  Political prisoners have been rotting in American jails since long before Bush.  It’s going on 40 years for Leonard Peltier for example.  The myth that it all started with Bush/Cheney is becomming tiresome.

Well said, oketa.

Perhaps Mr. Cheeks should start by fixing his own country before telling others what they’ve done wrong.

His primary complaint is what China could do concerning Darfur because of China’s relationship with Sudan.  But let’s look at this situation from the perspective of a Sudanese leader.  They can get money (it isn’t really “aid”) from the Chinese in return for their natural resources…a simple trade, no conditions.  Or they could appeal to the West for aid.  Doing so would require their agreement to a host of conditions…most of which end up leaving Western businesses in virtual control of the resources and the nation itself, and often amount to little more than plunder.

Which would Mr. Cheeks choose?

By oketa, August 8 at 8:18 am #

I couldn’t of said it any better, short and to the point.

I always forget something in web addresses, in this case the dot after www.  http://www.linktv.org/miro

Link TV which has covered this story extensively is now accessable online.  Go to http://www/linktv.org/miro  In the top center of the page go to “About Link TV.”  In the drop down box click on “Using link tv on the web.”

Kudos Okeda, you’ve hit the nail on head. King George critiqing China’s human rights abuses is genuinely throwing bricks in a glass house.
Perhaps the most disappointing aspect of this debate is that many people in our nation don’t seem to realize that China is a communist/totalitarian country. Torture, illegal imprisonment, immenent domain, are the trappings of living in a police state. The ultimate freedom, that of privacy, does not exist. Unfortunatly, everything I just said after the word “torture” more approprietly describes the happenings in the good ol’ USA of late.
Somewhere in hell, Himmler is smiling (and saving a seat for King George)

Americans should be more concerned about what is happening in the US than what the Chinese government does in China.

If you had asked me 8 years ago whether I would ever be living in a country where a citizen can be grabbed off the street, tortured, and imprisoned without trail I would have said that would never happen.  But that could happen to anyone in the US under our current regime.  Where is the outrage?  Our press and Congress meekly support the farce that we call a “war on terrorism”.  The real threat to the US is sitting behind a desk in the White House.

The US also is second in the world for using capital punishment against its citizens.  We should be ashamed of that achievement.  All of the rest of the first world countries have outlawed executions.

Finally, the US imprisons more of its citizens in jails than any other country in the world.  The typical jail is so dangerous to the inmates that they should be considered cruel and unusual punishment.

So let’s get off our high horse and stop telling other countries how to govern their citizens and focus of fixing the long list of social and justice problems in our own country.

I am waiting for Joey Cheek to provide us with «a clear and persuasive» answer to the question as to why neither he nor others in his group have not taken up China’s greatest human-rights failing : the Chinese government’s underwriting, by means of the purchase of US Treasury certificates, of the US government’s criminal wars on Iraq and Afghanistan (soon, perhaps, to be joined by yet another, on Iran). In the absence of an answer from Mr Cheek, who may have been too busy to acquaint himself with this matter, I should be content to see one from Mr Dionne….

Henri

We should never forget that the Olympics have everyting to do with showcasing political and economic higher, faster, stronger and little to do with swimming, jumping and running.

My apologies to olympians who give their lives to the latter. It’s just not that important what country produces the “best” athletes.

I have an idea:  Lets have a Leadership Olympics to see which country can produce the best leaders, ones who work for the interests of common people, who don’t bully other countries with nuclear threats, who don’t steal others’ natural resourses, who don’t shred their own constitutions, and who don’t, enroute to other countries on shiney jets, criticize foreign human rights records, etc., etc.

This is the country that was given MOST FAVORED NATION status-after the “SQUARE MASSACRE” and now they have REMOVED CITIZENS FROM THEIR HOMES to make room for Olympic Related Businesses[sort of an “IMMINENT DOMAIN” situation?-sure it is…]-They DO NOT CARE for anything! AND ONLY WANT THE MONEY AND STATUS THAT HOSTING “THE GAMES” WILL BRING THEM…[of course-there are the same issues in America-look at the fence being built at the BORDER-land being taken from citizens for the good of the country]-Governments can get away with WHATEVER THEIR CITIZENS ALLOW THEM TO GET AWAY WITH!UNLESS THE CITIZENS TAKE BACK THE POWER!

In the run-up to the 2008 Beijing Olympics, China promised that it would reform its practices on many human rights issues. The Chinese government stated that light would shine on the people of China and that there would be a revitalization of the press and the people’s rights.
Yet here we are close to the opening of the Olympics and not one thing has changed in China except that the repressive practices of the People’s Liberation Army have gotten worse, the government has severely cracked down on any form of dissent, and human rights leaders of the Chinese people have suffered even worse fates at the hand of the government. All for the purpose of making sure that nothing “spoils” the grand scheme of the government for a perfect Olympics.
The people of the sovereign nation of Tibet, have encountered the worst violence against their nation in many years. Thousands have been injured and many have died in the cause of Tibetan freedom. The Chinese government has worked very hard to commit GENOCIDE, the removal of the Tibetan culture and people from the face of the earth. They are doing this by moving thousands of ethnic Chinese into lands that have been in Tibetan families for many generations. Giving support to the ethnic Chinese, while the Tibetan language and religion of the people is outlawed and oppressed.
Falun Gong, a, form of moving meditation, is called an affront to the state and the practice outlawed because the Chinese government thinks that the practitioners of this martial art are a threat to national security and when found in China, are tried and sentenced to forced labour camps, “reeducation centers.”
This move by the IOC was and is the worst decision that they have ever made, I, for one, will not watch or follow any of the Olympic activities, in protest of the wrong-headed and obviously ignominious approval of the practices of the Chinese government by the International Olympic Committee.