Nah, Patrick Henry, I suspect folktruther didn’t know your namesake, but McCain must have--I mean that walking corps is older than God.

By Folktruther, August 15 at 3:44 pm #

Yes, he insisted on the Bill of Rights before signing off on the Constitution because he thought it gave the feds too much power.

Did you know the original Patrick?  You sound like you have first hand info.

Patrick Henry, I agree with what I’ve read of your comments, but did you know that the orignial Patrict. who did’t give the speach wanting liberty or death (it was an incredible simulation reconstruted, proably fraudently, later) was, at the time he wasn’t wanting liberty, was one of the largest slave owners of hs county?

By Sepharad, August 14 at 11:32 pm #

“but you’d have to be really round the bend to think any Israeli would participate in 9/11”.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRfhUezbKLw

Evidence proves otherwise.  I also doubt the excuse you provided giving Israel justification to attack the USS Liberty without warning, where’s your proof?

The Israeli Spy Ring

ALL LINKS TO CARL CAMERON’S FOX NEWS STORY ON THE ISRAELI SPY RING HAVE BEEN REMOVED AT THE EXPRESS REQUEST OF FOX NEWS.

However, you can still view them HERE

“Israel does not spy on the United States of America.”
-- Mark Regev, a spokesman at the Israeli embassy in Washington

“Prior to 9/11, the FBI had discovered the presence of a massive spy ring inside the United States run by the government of Israel. This seems a harsh gratitude from a nation which obtains 10% of its annual budget from the American taxpayer, $3+ billion a year. Over the years, American taxpayers have been required to send Israel more than four times what the US spent to go to the moon.
What Israel has done in return was to set up government subsidized telecommunications companies which operate here in the United States. One of these companies is Amdocs, which provides billing and directory assistance for 90% of the phone companies in the USA. Amdocs’ main computer center for billing is actually in Israel and allows those with access to do what intelligence agencies call “traffic analysis”; a picture of someone’s activities based on a pattern of who they are calling and when. Another Israeli telecom company is Comverse Infosys, which subcontracts the installation of the automatic tapping equipment now built into every phone system in America. Comverse maintains its own connections to all this phone tapping equipment, insisting that it is for maintenance purposes only. However, Converse has been named as the most likely source for leaked information regarding telephone calls by law enforcement that derailed several investigations into not only espionage, but drug running as well. Yet another Israeli telecom company is Odigo, which provides the core message passing system for all the “Instant Message” services. Two hours before the attacks on the World Trade Towers, Odigo employees received a warning. Odigo has an office 2 blocks from the former location of the World Trade Towers.  “I think there is very compelling evidence that at least some of the terrorists were assisted not just in financing—although that was part of it—by a sovereign foreign government… It will become public at some point when it’s turned over to the archives, but that’s 20 or 30 years from now.”

-- Senator Graham as quoted in Senator: At Least One Foreign Country Assisted the 9/11 Terrorists
Let us be clear here. There is nothing benign about Israel spying on the United States. When Jonathan Pollard stole our nuclear secrets (which your taxes paid to develop) and sent them to Israel, Israel did not hesitate to trade those secrets to the USSR in exchange for increased emigration quotas.

The implication of these facts is that the billions of our tax dollars sent to Israel (while women and children sleep in America’s alleys and eat out of trash bins) have bought and paid for a monstrous phone tracking and phone tapping system that can eavesdrop on almost any phone call in America. Even the White House phones were open to such tapping by listening in on the other end outside the White House itself.

This actually happened. The Ken Starr report on Whitewater describes how Bill Clinton informed Monica Lewinsky that their phone sex conversations had been recorded. At the same time, Clinton ordered the FBI to cease the hunt for an Israeli mole known to be operating inside the White House itself!”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Click on URL for the rest story that you will NOT see on AIPAC’s controlled CNN, FAUX News...etc…

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/spyring.html

“The Neocons Are Dying to Nuke Iran”

An interview with Dr. Paul Craig Roberts

By Kathy Sanborn

13/08/08 “ICH”—- Sanborn: When I read your article, “Marching Off Into Tyranny,” I was impressed by how you were able to concisely sum up one of the most important issues that we face as Americans, namely, the erosion of our civil liberties, mostly due to fabricated terrorism such as the anthrax scare and the attacks on 9/11. You talk about the Florida university professor, Al-Arian, who continues to be victimized by the Feds although a jury has cleared him of any terrorism charges. [As of August 8, 2008, the Associated Press states, “U.S. District Judge Leonie Brinkema postponed the trial indefinitely, questioning whether the government was overeager in filing charges.” –KS]

What was your wake-up call, Dr. Roberts, to the fact that the current administration was determined to take away the civil liberties of Americans?

Roberts: When they responded to 9/11 with the Patriot Act. That document was thick, and it would have taken months and months to prepare it, yet it came out shortly after the 9/11 attacks.

Why does combating terrorism require an assault on the Constitution and the Bill of Rights? It was clear to me that there was an undeclared agenda there.

On the day of 9/11, I knew right away that something was wrong. I had been an engineering student at Georgia Tech, and things just didn’t add up. As I watched the towers fall, I could see that the buildings were blowing up from the top, at least initially. The airplanes caused asymmetrical damage, and I don’t think the planes were large enough to cause the buildings to topple. When you chop a tree down, it doesn’t blow up, it falls.

The buildings were blowing up, not falling down.

Then when I saw pictures of the alleged terrorists, most of them looked just like kids. They were small, and airplane passengers wouldn’t have hesitated to try to take them down. The average American male should have been able to take care of the hijackers.

And how they could have fooled all of the intelligence agencies, outwit NORAD, and so on; it just didn’t make any sense.

They were really after our civil liberties. That was their undeclared agenda. The effect is that no one has any protection under the law.

Sanborn: In your article, you mention the anthrax scare as being a logical part of the 9/11 “false-flag” series of events. Now that we know the anthrax actually came from a US government lab and not from an alleged cave in Afghanistan, the theory seems to hold water. And you point out that recently scientist Bruce Ivins was implicated in the anthrax case after his apparent “suicide.”

You also discuss how the Bush administration lied to ABC reporter Brian Ross by telling him the anthrax was made in Iraq by none other than Saddam Hussein, thus clearing the way for the US to invade Iraq and to pass the Patriot Act. Dr. Roberts, are journalists these days in the habit of simply believing and accepting everything the administration tells them, or are some of them on the “company” (CIA) payroll?

Roberts: I suspect both. It’s a corporate-run media, especially since the Clinton administration days, and many of the journalists act as “disinfo” agents for the government.

Back in the 1970s when I was a Senate aide, I would turn on the TV in the evening and the news reports would bear no resemblance to what had actually happened that day. I noticed that there were no journalists in the gallery, so how had the stories gotten to them? It turned out that the aides were calling the press, and the journalists were taking the stories, virtually running them verbatim. Journalists are lazy.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Click on URL for the rest of interview with Paul Craig Roberts:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20502.htm

Yes, Cyrana, Cann4ing, Robert and the others are quite right.  The most plausible explanation, on inadequate information, was that the 9/11-anthrax homicide was a probably false flag operation, probably orchestrated by elements of the Bushite regime.  With Israeli and Pakistani, among other intelligence agencies, assistence.  Using Muslim operataives, witting or unwitting.

Scheer, not incidentally, recouped some of his reputation with his current analysis of the reason for the US-Georgia war with Russia.

By Sepharad, August 12 at 4:46 pm #

Ridicule the message, how typical.

It happened. Israel is involved.  They will need to be protected by god if it comes out.

Propaganda and media distortion can only protect so much.  Once the house of cards starts falling all “secrets” are on the table.

1 of 2 reply to Sepharad, August 12 at 3:27 pm

• Nasty insiders would have selected targets not so financially and militarily damaging, but with potential larger loss of life.”

Shepard,

Just for thinking purposes, let’s really consider WHAT the ‘targets’ would have been, had real terrorists extremists, who allegedly care nothing about the loss of life, and simply need to make their political points, (as many ‘terrorists’ have done in the past) would choose. Well, there is a nuclear site in upstate New York, known to many, (so we would need to include the so-called ‘terrorists’) and that would surely have been far more damaging, (and even easier) to run an airplane into. No, not even a nasty insider in the government would have done that.

• I must say that the originator and purveyors of the Islamists-didn’t-do-it notion sound like CIA plants seeking to muddy the waters. The school of so-called thought that bin Laden in his cave and stoneage Moslems could never have pulled off such a thing, is pure racist condescension, demonstrably untrue and a red herring worthy of some creator skillful enough to stampede most of the leftwingers in the wrong direction.

I think you miss the point here, since it’s not at all about racism. NOBODY (least of all those who question the multiple discrepancies of the Official Conspiracy – The 9/11 Commission Report) has suggested that “Islamists” (be they al-Qaeda led or not) were not CAPABLE of pulling this off. That isn’t the point, or even the question. The question is whether or not they DID. And, the US government has yet to provide ANY, (and I do mean ANY) physical evidence that they actually did.

So the real ‘red herring’ is the fact that they absolutely COULD HAVE done it, and there are documented statements that they certainly *did* consider it, at some point. Why else would the CIA have maintained a ‘bin Laden Unit’? Nobody is suggesting that they could not have accomplished something on this order, because if we examine the history of political violence, there are NUMEROUS occasions of airplane high jackings, or bombs planted on airplanes that cause them to crash in the middle of their flights. These are far too numerous to mention in this post, but the fact of the matter is that this was not a ‘novel’ idea, and commercial air operations, as well as the US military, have –for DECADES- had multiple provisions in place to prevent and respond to such incidents. WHICH - is why we haven’t HAD any, until 9/11/01. (I spent my career in the commercial aviation industry – ALL parts of the operations). So, if the Libyans could do it, (at least to the extent of planting bombs on an airplane) then no one is by any stretch of the imagination, suggesting the highly intelligent leaders of al-Qaeda, (Zawahiri is a physician by the way) couldn’t have done it.

*I’M* saying, that they DID NOT, and clearly not alone. al-Qaeda did NOT arrange for the 15 Military Drills that occurred on 9/11, which..among other things, “moved fighter planes to Canada and Alaska, introduced fake radar blips on the screens of military personnel, and deployed both civilian and military aircraft in the guise of highjacked airliners. This was ONE way the vaunted US air defense in the Northeast Corridor was PARALYZED for about 1 hour and 45 minutes.” *(9/11 Synthetic Terror – Tarpley).

No. al-Qaeda didn’t work that out, so that there would be NO response to such emergencies during that time, on that day.

That said, they also didn’t overpower 8 experienced commercial airline pilots in 4 separate cockpits. It DID NOT HAPPEN. Period. I knew some of those crew members, and they simply would not have given up their ships that way. Moreover, no matter how smart the alleged operatives were, they did NOT pilot those aircraft into the WTC towers, or anywhere else.  Even long term experienced pilots would have needed time to maneuver such a feat.

Part 2 of 2 reply to Shepard

Additionally, NO COMMERCIAL JETLLINER EVER HIT THE PENTAGON, and the government has never provided any physical evidence that it did. Nothing. No debris, no bodies, no ANYTHING. Same with the aircraft that allegedly crashed in Shanksville. NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE of that has ever been presented.

Then of course there’s the obvious fact that whatever struck the Towers, (that at least appeared to be airplanes, though even they could not, and have yet to be confirmed as AA or UA jetliners) did NOT cause those towers to fall so rapidly. In short, those airplanes could not have caused that damage. It’s an absolute. So we KNOW that the Towers (all three of them) were brought down by explosives. So, why didn’t the official commission report just SAY that the Towers were bombed, and blame THAT on al-Qaeda as well? I mean, if we’re gonna blame this intelligent gang for being able to do all of the rest, (19 highjackers with weapons did NOT get past the security at all of those airports – impossible) why not just say that the ‘terrorists’ planted those bombs in the days before, (since we know SOMEBODY had to) and then did the rest of it for show?

That’s just for starters, and it doesn’t begin to address how these operations were actually (most probably) carried out. I personally, (like most other Americans) WANTED to believe the initial explanation for the terror of 9/11, but because of my own background, I found it next to impossible to believe certain elements. (like the towers falling from being struck by Boeing 757 aircraft). THAT much I knew, could not be. But, I was willing to wait on the official confirmation, by the standard agencies that ALWAYS appear on the scene immediately, (like the NTSB and the FAA) knowing that it could be weeks or even months before they came up with a thorough explanation that could be released to the public. I was certain that they would surely correct, (in the official investigation) the notion that such destruction had been created by airplanes, and tell us that in fact it was explosives, and maybe the ‘terrorists’ had planted them in advance.

But alas, the NTSB NEVER EVEN SHOWED UP! At least not in the days and weeks following the attacks. And, while there was certainly a ground response in NYC by all of the local emergency services, one would never know that an aircraft disaster had occurred at the Pentagon, because there was NO emergency response. Having witnessed (with my own eyes) two crashes of two commercial jetliners, and been part of the response teams (after the fact) on two others, I KNOW what air disasters look like, and I’m far more aware than I’d ever want to be, of the kind of emergency response that these generate. Local medical centers have routine drills for exactly these purposes. Yet there wasn’t a single fire truck, ambulance, or anything else of any significance every noted at the Pentagon, or in Shanksville. 

And the debris from the WTC? Shipped off to Long Island immediately, and from there…CHINA. ZERO physical evidence of what really happened that day.

Check out: “9/11 Synthetic Terror: Made in USA” Webster Griffin Tarpley, 2nd edition.

Yes, there are hundreds of others, but this one will save you the trouble of reading them all. I also highly recommend actually READING the 9/11 Commission Report, which is carefully noted as the “official’ report. I’ve discovered that so many people in the denial phase have NOT read it. I’d recommend “The Commisson: The Uncensored History of the 9/11 Investigation” by Philip Shenon as well. First, the White House did everything they could to AVOID an investigation, (until the widows/family members of the victims demanded it, and that took forever, since they were stonewalled in all directions), and then, once the so-called ‘investigation’ was finally hooked up, it was totally undermined and corrupted from within.

Not racism. They just didn’t do it, because Chaney beat ‘em to it.

High-Fivers and Art Student Spies

What Did Israel Know in Advance of the 9/11 Attacks?

By CHRISTOPHER KETCHAM

“03/07/07 “Counterpunch”—-- On the afternoon of September 11, 2001, an FBI bulletin known as a BOLO ­- “be on lookout”—was issued with regard to three suspicious men who that morning were seen leaving the New Jersey waterfront minutes after the first plane hit World Trade Center 1. Law enforcement officers across the New York-New Jersey area were warned in the radio dispatch to watch for a “vehicle possibly related to New York terrorist attack”:

White, 2000 Chevrolet van with ‘Urban Moving Systems’ sign on back seen at Liberty State Park, Jersey City, NJ, at the time of first impact of jetliner into World Trade Center Three individuals with van were seen celebrating after initial impact and subsequent explosion. FBI Newark Field Office requests that, if the van is located, hold for prints and detain individuals.

At 3:56 p.m., twenty-five minutes after the issuance of the FBI BOLO, officers with the East Rutherford Police Department stopped the commercial moving van through a trace on the plates. According to the police report, Officer Scott DeCarlo and Sgt. Dennis Rivelli approached the stopped van, demanding that the driver exit the vehicle. The driver, 23-year-old Sivan Kurzberg, refused and “was asked several more times [but] appeared to be fumbling with a black leather fanny pouch type of bag”. With guns drawn, the police then “physically removed” Kurzberg, while four other men ­- two more men had apparently joined the group since the morning ­- were also removed from the van, handcuffed, placed on the grass median and read their Miranda rights.

They had not been told the reasons for their arrest. Yet, according to DeCarlo’s report, “this officer was told without question by the driver [Sivan Kurzberg],’We are Israeli. We are not your problem.Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are the problem.’” Another of the five Israelis, again without prompting, told Officer DeCarlo ­- falsely ­- that “we were on the West Side Highway in New York City during the incident”. From inside the vehicle the officers, who were quickly joined by agents from the FBI, retrieved multiple passports and $4,700 in cash stuffed in a sock. According to New Jersey’s Bergen Record, which on September 12 reported the arrest of the five Israelis, an investigator high up in the Bergen County law enforcement hierarchy stated that officers had also discovered in the vehicle “maps of the city with certain places highlighted. It looked like they’re hooked in with this”, the source told the Record, referring to the 9/11 attacks. “It looked like they knew what was going to happen when they were at Liberty State Park.”

The five men were indeed Israeli citizens. They claimed to be in the country working as movers for Urban Moving Systems Inc., which maintained a warehouse and office in Weehawken, New Jersey. They were held for 71 days in a federal detention center in Brooklyn, New York, during which time they were repeatedly interrogated by FBI and CIA counterterrorism teams, who referred to the men as the “high-fivers” for their celebratory behavior on the New Jersey waterfront. Some were placed in solitary confinement for at least forty days; some were given as many as seven liedetector tests. One of the Israelis, Paul Kurzberg, brother of Sivan, refused to take a lie-detector test for ten weeks. Then he failed it.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Click on URL for the rest of the article/news that you will NOT find on the AIPAC controlled mainstream news media ...

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17260.htm

Sepharad, if by racist you are referring to some sort of Israeli conspiracy behind 9/11, I share your concerns about an undertone of anti-Semitism. But I also think it a mistake to underestimate the level of Cheney’s ruthlessness.  We do not know enough about the event to reach any definitive conclusions primarily because the Bush regime, immediately after the event, cloaked everything behind a thick veil of secrecy, first resisting the very idea of a 9/11 and then stonewalling the commission, preventing access to a massive array of documents, preventing the commissioners from having a stenographer present, recording or even taking notes while questioning Bush--questioning that was permitted only in the presence of Cheney.

There is the still inexplicable collapse of WTC 7 into its own footprint in the span of 8.7 seconds--a building that was not struck by a plane.  I had initially assumed that even if it was taken down by controlled demolition, the bombs could have been planted by al Qaeda, but it turns out WTC 7 was one of the most secure in the U.S., housing offices of intelligence agencies and the NYPD command center.  On 9/11 Guilliani was recording stating he was told to evacuate 15 minutes before the collapse because the building was going to come down.

Then there is this anthrax story.  The letters mailed on 9/11 bearing language seeking to blame Muslim terrorists are now said to be produced in the U.S.  ABC is falsely told by highly placed officials the anthrax is linked to Iraq.  Why?  As Greenwald observes in his Salon piece, it is likely those feeding the false information were responsible for the anthrax mailings, and then Greenwald poses these questions.

“Why were White House aides given cipro weeks before the anthrax attacks, and why “on the night of the Sept. 11 attacks, [did] the White House Medical Office dispense[] Cipro to staff accompanying Vice President Dick Cheney as he was secreted off to the safety of Camp David”? [Washington Post, 10/23/2001]”

“Which ‘high government official’ told Richard Cohen to take cipro prior to the anthrax attacks (it wasn’t a ‘source’ who did so, since Cohen didn’t write about it and apparently never intended to; it was just someone high up in Government passing along a helpful tip to a media friend) [Richard Cohen, Slate, March 18, 2008]”

Finally, as to the Kennedy assassination, I would highly recommend reading Mark Lane’s “Plausible Denial.”

By Sepharad, August 12 at 3:27 pm #

Don’t forget about the Urban moving systems “Dancing Israel’s” dressed as arabs on camera rejoicings with the World trade center in the background burning.

That, coupled with the fact over 200 Israeli agents were rounded up and deported (still a secret) after 9/11....well it stinks of Israeli involvement.

A more in depth investigation is required by another administration, considering the Bush administration and sitting congress are incapable of investigating themselves.

Granted that Scheer’s portrayal of the FBI-antrax events are below his usual standard.  The liberal explanation for this low performance, as for the 9/11-anthrax historical events themselves, tend to focus on mistakes, weakness, incompentence, a need for a vacation, or the like.  Let me suggest to you an alternative possiblity.

Robert Scheer, and most of his journalist colleagues are intellectually dishonest.

Ah no, that cannot be, why it is like saying that he lacks intellectual integrity.  But I am afraid that is exactly what I am saying.

It isn’t possible to work for the capitalist press without supporting the capitalist imperialism of the American power structure.  If a journalist working for the NYTimes stated that the most plausable explanation in the case is that the FBI hounded Ivins to death, or even murdered him or covered up his murder, he would not be working for the NYTime very long.  Indeed, the Times would not hire anyone who they thought would say such a thing in the first place.

So journalists in the capitalist press lie continuously, if only by maintaining a discrete silence.  And conseaquently it is not called lying in the mainstream truth tradition because everyone in the media does it routinely.  Not only in this country but in every country.  But particularly in the US which is losing world power and the whole power system is being transformed into a police state.

Leading conservative truthers deceive rank and file conservatives and liberal truth leaders deceive rank and file liberals, since both work for a media that are owned, controlled and financed by members of the ruling class.  Who place their editors and other truth managers in the media to oversee that truthers of all kinds toe the ideological line.

I hope I’m not shocking you.  George Shaw once commneted that all professions are conspiracies against the laity- yes, cann4ing, even lawyers- and journalism is also a profession.  One can suck up to authority if one chooses, but doing so prevents one from telling the truth from the perspective of the population rather than from the perspective of the power structure.

An 8/10/08 NY Times op ed by Gerry Andrews. ass. prof of microbiology at the Univ. of Wyoming and a former colleague of Bruce Ivins, pokes more gaping holes in the FBI’s case.  He notes that while the FBI claims it traced a “unique DNA footprint to a single anthrax spore” but fails to reveal the methodology used to arrive at that conclusion which is essential.  He then states:

“Dr. Ivins was an investigator in the case before he was a suspect. After the anthrax attack, Dr. Ivins himself worked directly with the evidence. The F.B.I. asked Dr. Ivins to help them with the forensics in the case by analyzing the contents of suspicious letters. And he did so for years, until the authorities began to suspect that the anthrax spores used in the mailings might have originated from his lab.

“Dr. Ivins, for instance, was asked to analyze the anthrax envelope that was sent to Mr. Daschle’s office on Oct. 9, 2001. When his team analyzed the powder, they found it to be a startlingly refined weapons-grade anthrax spore preparation, the likes of which had never been seen before by personnel at Fort Detrick.

“It is extremely improbable that this type of preparation could ever have been produced at Fort Detrick, certainly not of the grade and quality found in that envelope.”

Among the difficulties with the FBI’s evidence is the distinct possibility that the powder used in the attacks could have been contaminated by post-investigation handling of that evidence in the lab.

Curious that the FBI failed to reveal to the public Dr. Ivins role as an investigator prior to his becoming a suspect.

I’m with you Tony.  Given his track record, in which he has never been proven to be to shy to speak truth to power, I have to believe this article to be the product of carelessness.  But then who am I to say.  It appears our folktruther has a PhD in mind-reading as well as qualifications for having minored in psycho-babble and for having the good sense to marry a lawyer.

Bush isn’t a moron? That’s debatable, in my view. If not, he sure does an awfully good impression of one. Cheney, on the other hand, is definitely not a moron, just evil. Bush is the moron puppet who probably never gets told much. Like, he was given Cipro before the anthrax attacks happened. Probably didn’t know why, and too stupid to care. Or the “My Pet Goat” thing. They probably told him “no matter what you hear, just sit there, we’ve got it under control.”

Folktruther, August 11 at 10:47 am

I pretty much agree with you except that I wouldn’t say Scheer “sanitized” the story deliberately. I would certainly go so far as to call it piss poor investigative journalism.

Bush, Cheney and Rice are NOT morons; their function is simply to destroy the traditonal US power system and substitute a Democratic police state. This is a despotic and tyranical power system covered up by libeal institutions drained of people power.  Consequently the government acts incopetantly because they want to destroy its social function and emphasize tis repressive function of government.

That’s why American ideolology is so irrational.  The War on Terrorism, elevating a minor world police problem to the status of a War makes no rational sense, but feeds the emotional racism which is a glue that holds the American power system together and gains support for the ruling class across class boundaries.

That is why Scheer’s sanitizing of the FBI’s bullying or murder of Ivin is so important.  This War was initiated by the 9/11-antrax false flag homicide, which is buried under the rationalizations and deceptions of the mainstream truth, including the mainstream progressive truth.

By cyrena, August 10 at 3:18 pm #

That said, they aren’t so stupid as to be unaware of the fact that an attack (like the one they allegedly carried out) wouldn’t be immediately disrupted by the SUPREMELY SUPERIOR US DEFENSE SYSTEM. But somehow, that happened anyway. The supremely superior US defense system, was TOTALLY MIA for an hour and 45 minutes on 9/11/01. No NORAD, no anything, or anybody around to do something as simple as intercept an errant airplane or 4? Odd eh? Let a student pilot or even a commercial pilot accidently wander into ANY restricted (military) airspace, at ANY altitude, and there are fighter jets on their ass in a nanosecond. Yet, all were missing on 9/11/01? Yep…very intentionally missing.
-----------------------------------------------------
Yes, that’s a major reason why I think Al Qaeda had inside help. I just can’t believe the incompetence could have been that monumental. Bush and Condoleeza (who could ever have imagined they would fly airplanes into buildings) Rice may be complete morons, but these defense systems were in place long before Bush took office and they were still staffed by the same people. It could only have been interference from above that prevented them from functioning normally.

cyrena,

The strongest voice I have heard against the inside job hypothesis is Richard Clark. He still attributes it to incompetence.

By yellowbird2525, August 11 at 8:07 am #

tony, your little well propaganda pablum might fool some folks but give me a break here! long been known for their freedom & democracy! 70% or MORE of the world consider Americans to be SLAVES, with nothing for the people at all & wonder WHY we put up with
-----------------------------------------------------
Oh, this is complete unsubstantiated nonsense. I understand that you are very upset by U.S. imperialism, but you sound completely hysterical. I think you should calm down, smoke a doobie, chill out. But go on ranting into the ether if you must. I won’t bother to respond any more.

The kind of criticism that comes from rense.com blurs important distinctions. For example, there is a big difference between Obama’s response to the Georgia-Russia conflict and McCain’s. Obama’s response involves alliances, consensus and international law. McCain’s response is pure unilateral U.S.-Israel exceptionalism, which is to say, pure imperialism.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintellige nce/2008/08/mccain_stays_to.html

tony, your little well propaganda pablum might fool some folks but give me a break here! long been known for their freedom & democracy! 70% or MORE of the world consider Americans to be SLAVES, with nothing for the people at all & wonder WHY we put up with it; SURPRISE! start reading other countries articles instead of the “political propaganda” crap dished out for the public! I was sure as heck surprized to find that not only do other countries know far more than the American public does, they THINK differently as well! They KNOW MORE about what goes on in the USA than it’s citizens do! and to SAY that “the whole world” would vote for Obama is so incredibly off the track you have to be a plant for the Gov & for Obama. Other countries CITIZENS such as FRANCE, want to do away with ALL politicians beginning with OURS as THEY are the ones who bought THEIR heads of country to go right along with Obama, Hillary, & Diane Fernsteins plans: remember the little meeting in California at Diane’s house after Obama won the nomination? Guess where he & Hillary went the next day; starts with a B; do YOU know the plans laid out for USA & the world from A to Z?

By Louise, August 10 at 3:08 pm

Louise,

I don’t trust rense.com. There is lots of hate, lots of anti-Semitism and a lack of fact-checking and genuine investigative reporting. The article you linked to hardly cites a single real fact.

The U.S. and Israel may have been involved, but I would like to see some proof, not one guy’s completely unsubstantiated opinion.

By Louise, August 10 at 3:08 pm #

Tony Wicher:

“Why not an American citizen?”

It’s the, “No blood on my hands,” thing. Giving the thumbs up to those who go ahead and slit the throat.

Some people enjoy slitting throats. Some people get off on money. And some just get off on power.
================================

Great comment Louise. After reading your comment I thought of all the blackmail & the cold blooded murders that our “American Citizens”, in the U.S. government, commit here at home and overseas in order to keep people quiet.

When you have time, click on the URL below to watch the video(s) & the related ones too; you will be surprised.

IT MAKES ONE WONDER WHY A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE QUIET ABOUT WHAT THIS ADMINISTRATION’S GANG HAVE BEEN UP TO IN THE LAST 7 PLUS YEARS. ARE PEOPLE SCARED OF WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN TO THEM IF THEY START TALKING? HMMM...I AM SURE THAT SOME OF THEM MAY BE READING LOTS OF THE COMMENTS ON TRUTHDIG! 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

kay Griggs Talks: Desperate Wives (Blackmail In US Government 2 of 2) - 213 min - Apr 6, 2006
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“Kay Griggs, wife of colonel George Griggs, USMC (retired USMC Commandant): 29th Commandant of the Marine Corps, found her husband’s diary, which contains details of homosexual blackmail in the top ranks of the US Marine Corps and names leading politicians and military leaders. Kay Griggs’s information about the US government also comes from observations and people she met. She exposes initiation rituals, the raping of young men and blackmail and murders to keep people quiet. Much of this, according to Griggs, is related to secret society activity and she names figures like Henry Kissinger and a string of other top government individuals. This is part 2 of 2 of the full interview.”

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9137016279925999679

Re yellowbird2525, August 10 at 2:24 pm

Alas, imperialism and democracy have both been parts of this country from the beginning. With the wind of Manifest Destiny at our backs, we slaughtered Indians from sea to shining sea, declared the whole Western Hemisphere to be our sphere of influence, and have since expanded to the point where we have military bases in over 100 countries around the world. The sun never sets on the American Empire. And yet, the American people have always been admired by the whole world for their freedom and their democracy, and in spite of Bush, might be again under an Obama presidency. If the people of the whole world got to vote, Obama would win by a huge landslide, that’s for sure.

Jobart, part 1 of 2

You’re so on the mark here

• “A very hard concept to accept for most people, but not hard for those that are not as “fully” trusting of their government, and those that are “really” in charge.”

It IS hard to accept, even for those of us who do know better, just because the reality is enough to terrorize the sanest among us. (which I’m not even claiming to be) and drive us crazy as well. It’s like, what’s worse..be in denial, or know the truth and not be able to do a damn thing about it? (In part out of fear of becoming one of the disappeared?)

But here’s a large part of the reason WHY I believe that some people –who don’t trust the government either, and who DO know what’s going on, still buy most of the 9/11 thing. Tony Wincher mentioned this in part, in his response to you about many of the other perfectly intelligent people who aren’t “seeing” it yet either. In fact, I’ve been working on this for the past several weeks, just because many, (if not most) of my own colleagues believe the basic story as well, and these are not dumb people, but rather highly educated, (well, their all academics). I’m not suggesting by any measure that ‘highly educated’ means highly intelligent, but my point is that THESE people know very well what is going on with the shadow government, and all that is up (or down) with that. And, while they *will* acknowledge the discrepancies in the official account, they still hold to the basic reason for the attacks based on the Blowback Theory.

Among that group we have many known scholars, (because it’s basically the ‘stance’ of the academic community) and I’ve been trying to find a way to reconcile that. Actually, I actually, I have already done that, but I’ve just not put it together in any sort of publishable form. Still, the short story goes kinda like this…

There *are* multiple reasons for a group such as al-Qaeda to have carried out such an attack. Political violence isn’t new, and the US has done much to enrage the rest of the world. It’s just that most of the rest of the world who have been persecuted by US imperialism and other tactics of the forced hegemony don’t routinely retaliate with such extreme measures. And that is specifically true of any attempts to retaliate against the lone or sole superpower left. This too makes sense, even for extremists that are psychologically impaired. (like bin Laden, who once considered initiating a war against Saddam Hussein, until he was advised that he had to be crazy. Saddam had a powerful army, and bin Laden had maybe 300 ‘warriors’ and no equipment).

That said, they aren’t so stupid as to be unaware of the fact that an attack (like the one they allegedly carried out) wouldn’t be immediately disrupted by the SUPREMELY SUPERIOR US DEFENSE SYSTEM. But somehow, that happened anyway. The supremely superior US defense system, was TOTALLY MIA for an hour and 45 minutes on 9/11/01. No NORAD, no anything, or anybody around to do something as simple as intercept an errant airplane or 4? Odd eh? Let a student pilot or even a commercial pilot accidently wander into ANY restricted (military) airspace, at ANY altitude, and there are fighter jets on their ass in a nanosecond. Yet, all were missing on 9/11/01? Yep…very intentionally missing.

Jobart, part 2 of 2

But, I digress. The reason that so many scholars and even ‘terror experts’ are willing to buy the basic story line, is simply because there are reasons for such action, (at least in the minds of those who allegedly perpetrated them) and it’s not something that hasn’t occurred before. Terrorists engaged in political violence by means of asymmetrical warfare have obviously existed for a long time.

Consequently, many scholars stick to that line of reasoning, without acknowledgment of the scenario that I decided on long ago, which is: Yep, maybe some ‘terrorists’ did have such dream plans at one point, but Cheney et al stole their idea, and beat them to it. And, because even that had to be well planned, (and in advance) it leaves us to wonder if the standard ‘foreign’ terrorists had anything to do with it at all.

On the other hand, there is conveniently ZERO physical evidence left, so for the scholar committed to studying this and attempting to find some rational explanation, (besides the fact that our government in the form of the dictatorship would do it) the Blowback theory is the most comfortable fit. And, it does address at least a large portion of the fundamental reasons for this sort of “terrorism” in general.

On a different but equally important note…the West Coast of Mexico is sounding better and better. Seriously, my instinct for survival is still very strong, and there is less and less a chance of it happening here. I’d originally considered Canada, which I foolishly thought would be easier for my assimilation process. That isn’t really the case, all things considered, but specifically the money. My fixed income is fixed *LOW*.

So, can you keep me posted on what you might locate in the area? Maybe we could set up an ex-patriot colony or something? I could send the kids down first, (at least they speak Spanish) and get things set up. I’m serious, and not at all picky at this point. My only real requirement is internet connectivity. I’ve got the broadband wireless service, but I don’t know if that is available in Mexico. Maybe you all can check that out as well. As for the rest, fishing is always an option, unless Arnold Schwartzie manages to extend his damage that far down the coast.

So…lemme know.

Tony Wicher:

“Why not an American citizen?”

It’s the, “No blood on my hands,” thing. Giving the thumbs up to those who go ahead and slit the throat.

Some people enjoy slitting throats. Some people get off on money. And some just get off on power.

That’s the way it works in organized crime. The money people. The ones who front for the corporation have to be able to say with a straight face, I didn’t do the murder. That’s why there are hit-men and other creepy types that crawl about in the night. They know they are safe, ‘cause the thumbs up guy isn’t going to blow his own cover by ratting them out.

You might find this interesting:  http://www.rense.com/general82/studp.htm

“The United States has a problem. Our nation cannot do anything right.  Nothing. We have a FUBAR strategic vision and a W FUBAR strategic plan.  I keep waiting for the UN, or G8, or some forum to demand that America change its name to the United States of Screw-Ups.

The Industrial Spin Cyclists of DC and their Zionist thug controllers are about to set a Gold Medal record of their own regarding little, but strategically-located Georgia. Yeah, those ‘geostrategically imperative pipelines’ are a bitch when someone starts playing games with a Superpower like Russia.

I was flabbergasted listening to a Georgian member of parliament being interviewed on BBC. The CIA must have done a “Jason Bourne thing” on his head. He was asked why Georgia would pull such a stupid stunt as attack, invade South Ossetia and kill Russian peacekeeper soldiers.

This idiot MP from Georgia did not even deny that Georgia attacked first, invaded South Ossetia or killed Russians. What he could not provide was even a ‘half-assed excuse’ as to why Georgia was dumb enough to do so.  Apparently, he is out of the CIA-Zionist-Mossad loop.”

Lets waterboard Lt. Col Zack for a while and see what he knows.

I recommend a Guantanamo tour for Zack, Feith, Perle, Zakheim and the other PNAC and pentagon office of special plans people.  Maybe starting Jan 21.

I am CERTAINLY not going to vote for McCain; but DEMCRACY means MORE than “voting”; it is THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE of the nation: which has been ignored by Gov for years; intestingly enough Hillary Clinton is the only one who MENTIONED this in her Puerto Rico visit; but 67% of Americans do NOT like EITHER candidate choice “presented” to us; and these are NOT the only 2 running; but “we” are told no media time print or air is going to be given to other “shadowy” groups; my ancestors on my fathers side were screwed royally (indians); my ancestors on my mothers side (on Mayflower) have been royally screwed by this Gov; http://www.time.com has an interesting “postcard” on Iraqi’s problems at the gas stations; under Saddam gas was 5 cents a liter; with the “new” Gov set up with USA Gov & “contractors” they are paying $1.42 a gallon & have to wait in long lines reminiscent of here in 1970’s; same old tricks; THIS is what “going global” means; lets see: mexico, canada, france, italy, S. Africa, blocked in India & “suddenly” bombings begin; how many countries did Hitler start taking over before they stopped him?

[Or, The Strike on USS Liberty]

It took an expert. An expert with plenty of time. Ample resources and the go-ahead. Probably someone not an American citizen, and probably someone in a group well-experienced in espionage and terrorism, with a well financed government behind them. Probably some of the same players who helped the players here pull off 9/11.
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Why not an American citizen? I figure the USS Liberty was Johnson and MacNamara’s idea - the same people that killed Kennedy and manufactured the Gulf of Tonkin incident which got us into Vietnam. The idea was to have a pretext for military invasion of the Middle East - then same as now. They got the cooperation of Moshe Dayan and some other Zionist nutbags, then same as now. But the Russians showed up and they couldn’t finish sinking the Liberty, so they had to abort.

Louise,

• “Not when you’re trying to frame someone to look like an al-Qaeda/Iraq opperative. Just one more example of how those who actually did do this, failed to tie up all the lose ends. But then they never did on the 9/11 attack either and people bought that.”

Exactly!! Clumsy dumb ass criminals. The thing is that people may have bought this, because there just aren’t that many experts or people in the field of such stuff, that they would easily buy it. (I mean, how much do any of us know about biological/chemical weaponry? That’s a far cry from the number of people with limited as well as extensive knowledge to the workings of the aviation industry, both commercial and military. So, I don’t understand at all, how so many folks bought the story of 9/11 after watching those buildings explode, and not seeing a sliver of any physical evidence that those airplanes came anywhere near the Pentagon, or that field in PA.

That aside, I wonder if the FBI ever even consulted with Richard Spertzel at the time? Or…any of the handful of others that could actually have accomplished this?

I haven’t read the link yet, but I’d be interested to know.

Thanks.

“According to the FBI, Ivins made the killer anthrax in his lab at Fort Detrick all by himself in something like 12 hours (pages 8-9).

Is that plausible?

Well, one of the handful of people who actually can produce the kind of high-tech weaponized anthrax used in the attacks said:

“In my opinion, there are maybe four or five people in the whole country who might be able to make this stuff, and I’m one of them,” said Richard O. Spertzel, chief biological inspector for the U.N. Special Commission from 1994 to 1998. “And even with a good lab and staff to help run it, it might take me a year to come up with a product as good.”

In addition, scientists at Ft. Detrick say that no one there had the equipment or knowledge to make weaponized anthrax of the type used in the letters (more on this in a later esay).

If it would take one of the handful of people who have the know-how and a good lab with staff a year, and if no one at Ivins’ lab knew how to do it, how could Ivins have made it all by himself in 12 hours without the proper equipment?”
http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2008/08/proof-th at-ivins-couldnt-have-done-it.html

~~~

So, if the FBI has been investigating this since 2001, how come they didn’t know that?

Of course they had to know that.

Most likely none of the handful of people who actually can produce the kind of high-tech weaponized anthrax used in the attacks, could legitimately be considered a suspect.

Not when you’re trying to frame someone to look like an al-Qaeda/Iraq opperative. Just one more example of how those who actually did do this, failed to tie up all the lose ends. But then they never did on the 9/11 attack either and people bought that.

[Or, The Strike on USS Liberty]

It took an expert. An expert with plenty of time. Ample resources and the go-ahead. Probably someone not an American citizen, and probably someone in a group well-experienced in espionage and terrorism, with a well financed government behind them. Probably some of the same players who helped the players here pull off 9/11.

Hmmm, wonder who that could be!

Re jobart, August 10 at 7:57 am #

BTW- Is Scheer just wrong here or is he a schill?
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jobart,

I think he’s just wrong, that is, he is just one of those Americans that has still not quite gotten his head around just how mad the world has gone. It took me several years to get to that point. Let’s send him email and keep working on him as we do others, like Chomsky, who haven’t quite gotten there yet. Let’s not call them “gatekeepers” or anything like that. This is honestly the state of their consciousness. As the Bush administration winds to a close, the facts are coming out. They will eventually get on board.

Alex Jones was joined on air by Francis A. Boyle, a leading American professor, practitioner of and expert on international law to discuss his detailed knowledge of the cover up of the 2001 anthrax attacks, which he believes were perpetrated by criminal elements of the US government in an attempt to foment a police state by killing off opposition to hardline post 9/11 legislation.

http://www.radiodujour.com/people/boyle_francis/

Re Robert, August 9 at 7:40 am #

Great intel, Robert. This rings very true to me. I just wonder how many other things that “shop” of Cheney’s was into. Maybe more than forging false information. I bet it was into all kinds of dirty tricks. Like anthrax, for example. Like blowing up buildings.

It’s all coming out, I think, I hope, I pray. The lid is coming off as they lose their power, and it will get blown all the way off after November.

yellowbird2525,

Just relax, man and vote for Obama this November!

Peace.

BOTH parties are involved: and AT&T;& the other Corps brought THEIR lawyers right to Congress to have dictated how the amnesty was going to be worded; it passed; due to the FRAUD of chemicals & the FDA overriding & hiding TRUTH from the people so many folks are going to make it yourself; that Clorox bought Burt Bee’s previously organic & congress obligingly wrote a law that ingredients no longer have to be on labels; Austrailia alerted me to the FACT that “baking soda” is full of fillers; so, gave me the TECHNICAL NAME to look for; WHY? cuz the FDA allows up to 50% of other things to be added & still label it as “pure”; Arm & Hammer backing soda; YIKES!; just like honey; & multiple other things; democracy has become the most despised name on the planet; synonomous with DECEIT, & TRICKERY which by the way is the very defintion of reason with a T in front of it; there were no laws against it; emailed Congress with “been up to trickery boys?” and explained that WE THE PEOPLE could “make up some laws”; wonder what other countries KNOW about our BEEF to picket the streets for 4 months now, (S Korea) that WE do NOT KNOW: but then, that IS the reason for MEDIA CONTROL as started drastically by CLINTON when in office right? the “truth is relative” means whatever they can get away with saying to cause YOU to believe is TRUTH; or that they are gods & whatever they say “is truth”; YOU decide; and yes, they ALL need to be fired; prosecuted by International Court (which they are ignoring) cuz they are ALL guilty of crimes against humanity & war crimes folks; WAKE UP & SMELL the COFFEE!

By Lefty, August 9 at 6:10 am #

By Tony Wicher, August 8 at 3:53 pm #

“. . . (Remember, business owners are people too!) . . .”
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OK, Tony!  You had my attention until you spouted that hot, steamy, pant load!  Business owners . . . people?!?!? Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr (shiver)! 

Anyway!  I wish I had your confidence that Obama will break the corporate chains that bind us.  Remember when Reagan said that he was going to “get big government off of our backs.” No one asked him the obvious question, which was, when you neuter the government, and corrupt it’s regulatory agencies, then WHO IS GOING TO KEEP BIG CORPORATIONS OFF OF OUR BACKS.

You see, Tony, the corporatist, fascists have us by the government (read: by the short and curlies).  And we can’t just vote them out of office!  I have confidence that Obama can stop the momentum, and maybe even reverse course.  But, IMO, it will take 20-30 years of uninterrupted liberal rule to undo what corporatist fascists have done, and make it stick!  But, I hope you’re right and I’m wrong.
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Lefty,

I don’t think we disagree. Firstly, Obama represents business interests too, just a different, and I would argue, far more benign set of business interests. Secondly, I am not expecting some magic starting the minute Obama gets in, but I am hoping for a slow reversal in the direction of progress.

Check out this clip from the Obama site:

http://my.barackobama.com/page/invite/actionwiremedia

People who can’t see any difference between Obama and McCain are blind and deaf.

From Robert’s link:

“On Tuesday, the White House released a statement on Richer’s behalf. In it, Richer declared, “I never received direction from George Tenet or anyone else in my chain of command to fabricate a document ... as outlined in Mr. Suskind’s book.”

“The denial, however, directly contradicts Richer’s own remarks in the transcript.

“Now this is from the Vice President’s Office is how you remembered it--not from the president?” Suskind asked.

“No, no, no,” Richer replied, according to the transcript. “What I remember is George [Tenet] saying, ‘we got this from’--basically, from what George said was ‘downtown.’”

“Which is the White House?” Suskind asked.

“Yes,” Richer said. “But he did not--in my memory--never said president, vice president, or NSC. Okay? But now--he may have hinted--just by the way he said it, it would have--cause almost all that stuff came from one place only: Scooter Libby and the shop around the vice president.”

“But he didn’t say that specifically,” Richer added. “I would naturally--I would probably stand on my, basically, my reputation and say it came from the vice president.”

“But there wasn’t anything in the writing that you remember saying the vice president,” Suskind continued.

“Nope,” Richer said.

“It just had the White House stationery.”

“Exactly right.”

So I can see the fall-back spin now.  Scooter did it.  George will pardon Scooter for his crime.  Darth Cheney walks away, again!

Tape: Top CIA official confesses order to forge Iraq-9/11 letter came on White House stationery

John Byrne
Published: Friday August 8, 2008

“In damning transcript, ex-CIA official says Cheney likely ordered letter linking Hussein to 9/11 attacks

A forged letter linking Saddam Hussein to the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks was ordered on White House stationery and probably came from the office of Vice President Dick Cheney, according to a new transcript of a conversation with the Central Intelligence Agency’s former Deputy Chief of Clandestine Operations Robert Richer.”

“The transcript was posted Friday by author Ron Suskind of an interview conducted in June. It comes on the heels of denials by both the White House and Richer of a claim Suskind made in his new book, The Way of The World. The book was leaked to Politico’s Mike Allen on Monday, and released Tuesday.”

“The bogus memo claimed that 9/11 hijacker Mohammed Atta had received training in Baghdad but also discussed the arrival of a “shipment” from Niger, which the Administration claimed had supplied Iraq with yellowcake uranium—based on yet another forged document whose source remains uncertain.

The memo subsequently was treated as fact by the British Sunday Telegraph, and cited by William Safire in his New York Times column, providing fodder for Bush’s efforts to take the US to war.”

“My source also notes that Dick Cheney, who was behind the forgery, hated and mistrusted the Agency and would not have used it for such a sensitive assignment,” the magazine wrote. “Instead, he went to Doug Feith’s Office of Special Plans and asked them to do the job. … It was Feith’s office that produced the letter and then surfaced it to the media in Iraq. Unlike the [Central Intelligence] Agency, the Pentagon had no restrictions on it regarding the production of false information to mislead the public. Indeed, one might argue that Doug Feith’s office specialized in such activity.”

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Tape_Top_CIA_officer_con fesses_order_0808.html

Yellowbird,

I -for one at least- believe you. I’ve noted all of the same myself, and over an extended period of time, beginning back in December, 2000.

Many of those ‘disappeared Americans’ (not all, but many) have simply begun to blend into the shadows, and have become part of the scenery, generally unnoticed by those who don’t pay much attention. But, I see it. It’s nearly impossible to miss these days, except for those who never leave their gilded and gated communities.

But like you, I want to know what’s happened to all of the Disappeared Americans, beginning with the passengers and crew of those 4 jetliners that ‘disappeared’ on 9/11.

One lady in Isreal stated that what WE are shown on TV as being true in Isreal is not; she said “by the time the American people WAKE UP and REALIZE what is going on in their country; it will be to late.” The “housing” crisis: folks: there are LAWS in place to PREVENT from happening what is happening with both homes & banks; has been since the Great Depression; truckers say “it is far worse than they are saying”; millions of American’s apparently just “walked” away from their homes: leaving Family Bibles, pictures, clothes, furniture, plates etc; what is being SHOWN repeatedly the same place again & again showing “destruction” of a property, and trying to say “many” are this way: is a